Review: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season One Blu-ray Looks Great, But Bonus Features Leave You Wanting More

Season One of Star Trek: Discovery has come to home video! Here’s what we thought of the Blu-ray release.

The Show

Much has been said about the first season of Star Trek: Discovery, so I won’t spend long here. We at TrekMovie covered the individual episodes as they came out, in reviews by our site founder Anthony as well as in a weekly podcast. You can find links to both the written reviews and the podcasts in our episode guide on our Discovery overview page.

Federation and Klingon fleets stand off in “Battle at the Binary Stars”

Like most first seasons of Trek, Discovery was uneven. It didn’t help that the main creative force behind Discovery, Bryan Fuller, left before production had really begun;  his influence is most directly felt in the first three hours of the season.

Discovery was quite unusual in that it effectively had three parts to its pilot. The first two episodes make a single story, a prelude to the events that unfold throughout the rest of the season. Then in episode 3, we get a second pilot of sorts. Burnham is now a prisoner due to her mutiny, and we go aboard the titular vessel — the USS Discovery — and just about all the characters are in place for the season.

I don’t think I’m alone in saying that season one hit its stride in the middle section of the season; episode 6 (“Lethe”) through episode 10 (“Despite Yourself”) are really firing on all cylinders. I liked the Mirror universe episodes fine, they were gorgeous to look at, and had some interesting themes, but it felt like they overstayed by an episode. The final two episodes felt rushed and tacked on, which in fact they were: Discovery initially had a 13 episode order which was then expanded to 15 midway through the writing of the season. But even when things get a bit ridiculous the actors are so darned good you just come along for the ride with them.

A long hard look from Lorca in “Lethe”

The Blu-ray Set

The episodes and special features are spread out across four Blu-ray discs. Each disc has the names of the episodes it contains printed on them.

The cardboard slipcover opens to reveal a Discovery collage

Each disc lists the episodes it contains

The disc menus take their cue from the Discovery title sequence

Audio Quality

The episodes have losslessly compressed DTS-HD MA 5.1 channel soundtracks. This is pretty standard for a TV show release. In general, Discovery sounds great. Occasionally it feels unnecessarily front-heavy, but most of the time it does a great job using the surrounds for the music and environmental sounds (bridge sound effects, ship humming, planet ambiance like wind, animal noises, etc.).

When it first aired there were complaints about dialog issues, especially with Lorca. In the first few episodes, Jason Isaacs seemed to mumble a bit more, which didn’t help things. I can say that the audio here is noticeably better for that issue; however, there’s no getting around the fact that Lorca still mumbles a bit. That’s just the way Isaacs performed things early on, but at least what he says is as clear as can be.

Comparisons to All Access
Americans were stuck watching Discovery with the audio (poorly) collapsed down to stereo on CBS All Access. The music and ambient sound effects, like bridge noises, that were supposed to be part of the surround channels, were loud and drowned out what should have been the focus: the dialog. This led to a number of issues like the dialog intelligibility issue mentioned above. All Access did not support surround sound until after season 1 had finished. Because of that, the audio you’ll get on these discs is far superior to what we heard when if you streamed the season as it came out weekly. For people in other regions you always had a native 5.1 soundtrack, so it may not seem particularly different. Now that All Access supports 5.1 on selected devices, the issue is effectively fixed, but surround support is still missing from many common devices. (Most glaring is the lack of 5.1 support for the popular game consoles — Xbox One and PS4.) So these discs are still the surefire way to get the best audio regardless of the device you use for streaming.

Burnham scans the Pahvo crystal spire in “Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum”

Video Quality

The show has never looked better. Having the breathing room on disc means the image quality is just that much better than streaming. There’s an extra bit of sharpness, and notably, the many dark scenes are just a little less murky. Season 1 was a dimly lit show, so anything that increases the detail in the darker areas is great. There are some scenes that really surprised me at just how colorful and sharp they looked, as I certainly don’t remember them looking that way when streaming the season.

Voq makes colorful holographic “art” from his map in “The Butcher’s Knife…”

The visual style they used in season one makes the picture somewhat inconsistent, and this was how it was made so it’s not specific to the Blu-ray release. All the episodes have a layer of digital noise applied to them, I assume to make things “gritty” —  one of the production’s buzzwords for the season. This layer of “grit” seems to have been toned down over time, as it’s more obvious in the earliest episodes. The effect is similar to the esthetic the rebooted Battlestar Galactica used.

Comparisons to All Access
For Americans watching Discovery on CBS All Access, the streaming service went through a number of teething problems, and the sheer number of people streaming Discovery on Sunday nights buckled All Access a few times early on. Often this resulted in poor streaming quality, if you could even keep a stream going. CBS worked on that, of course, and by mid-season the issues were few and far between. However, All Access still has not caught up to the quality of other streaming services. It still appears to top out at a lower bitrate and lower resolution than others. CBS’s apps do not show stream details, but they appear to only stream at 720p and with rather aggressive compression, which results in frustrating inconsistency in fine detail and murkier regions of darkness. The Blu-ray can be noticeably better than what you get via All Access. As one might expect, the increase in quality gets more noticeable the larger (and the higher-quality) TV you have.

Klingon council members from “Will You Take My Hand?”

Special Features

Bits of these features have been sliced and diced and released online. Also, some of the features here cover similar ground to the behind-the-scenes packages the team on After Trek made for their show.

Most of these are 10-20 minute pieces, and much of it comes from early on in production.

Discovering Discovery: The Concepts And Casting Of Star Trek: Discovery – Executive producers Alex Kurtzman, Aaron Harberts and Gretchen Berg discuss casting season one.

Standing In The Shadow Of Giants: Creating The Sound Of Discovery – Alex Kurtzman and composer Jeff Russo talk about creating the Discovery theme.

Creature Comforts – Glenn Hetrick and Neville Page and members of the makeup crew discuss their designs for the aliens. We get to see Doug Jones made up by James MacKinnon. Mary Chieffo talks about being L’Rell.

Designing Discovery – Todd Cherniawsky (the first production designer) discusses designing the USS Shenzhou, the USS Discovery, and the Klingon Sarcophagus ship. Tamara Deverell (the current production designer) discusses her contributions for the second half of the season, which includes Pahvo, Harlak, and the Terran Empire sets.

Creating Space – Alex Kurtzman discusses using feature film-quality visual effects and the blend between practical and computer graphics. Jason Zimmerman, Star Trek: Discovery’s VFX supervisor, discusses the process of bringing Burnham’s space flight from the pilot to life.

Prop Me Up – A look at one of the more successful aspects of the Discovery production, the props. Producer Alex Kurtzman, prop master Mario Moreira and costumer Gersha Philips discuss designing the props and how the two departments work together to inform each other.

A Woman’s Journey – A feature discussing Burnham’s journey, and the larger representation of women in front of and behind the camera. We hear from executive producers Heather Kadin and Alex Kurtzman, actors Sonequa Martin-Green, Michelle Yeoh and Mary Chieffo, and writers Bo Yeon Kim, Erika Lippoldt, and Kirsten Beyer.

Dress For Success – A look at costume designer Gersha Phillips and her team. They discuss designing the Discovery uniforms, all the layers of detail that go into the Klingon costumes, and the designs of the Mirror Universe. Jason Isaacs talks about squeezing into the Disco uniform, and Mary Wiseman, Michelle Yeoh, and Sonequa Martin-Green discuss their Mirror costumes.

Feeding Frenzy – A look at how the Discovery food stylists made the banquet of food Burnham and Emperor Georgiou eat in “Vaulting Ambition.” A particular challenge was making edible prop versions of Kelpien ganglia that were vegan-friendly for the ganglia soup.

Star Trek: Discovery: The Voyage Of Season One – This is a 40-minute look back at the entire season and is probably the most interesting and comprehensive of these features.  Nearly everyone weighs in. We hear from producers Alex Kurtzman, Heather Kadin, Aaron Harberts, Gretchen Berg, and Akiva Goldsman; writers Jordon Nardino, Kirsten Beyer, Bo Yeon Kim, and Erika Lippoldt; and actors Michelle Yeoh, Anthony Rapp, Wilson Cruz, Doug Jones, Jason Isaacs, Sonequa Martin-Green, Mary Wiseman, Mary Cheiffo, Rainn Wilson, Shazad Latif.

Deleted Scenes

For many people, these are likely the most compelling of all the bonus content. There are six episodes that have deleted or extended scenes.

“Battle at the Binary Stars”

An extended scene of young T’Kuvma dusting himself off after being beaten and swearing to unite the great houses in Kahless’ name.

“The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry”

A deleted scene of L’Rell and Voq plus a few other followers of T’Kuvma gathered around a dying Klingon. L’Rell kills the dying Klingon to stretch their resources. They discuss how everyone onboard is starving and losing faith. L’Rell says they need to take more drastic measures but Voq pushes back, telling L’Rell she may not kill anyone else.

“Choose Your Pain”

There are a number of trims of Saru as acting captain:

Saru records an acting captain’s log about being uneasy, calling the barren planet they’re currently orbiting “the orb of our undoing.”

Saru finds Tilly and others locked out of the engineering bay by Stamets, who is passed out in the reaction chamber from injecting himself with Tardigrade DNA.

Saru congratulates the crew for a job well done. Then, as seen in the final version, he goes to the ready room to hear his analysis as acting captain, which he cancels.

“Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad”

A deleted scene that followed Burnham swallowing a weaponized dark matter orb in the ready room. Cut to Stamets and Tilly discussing Burnham’s risky plan with Lorca, who was locked in the brig by Mudd, and wondering if Mudd will take the bait of being able to turn Burnham over to the Klingons if he resets the time loop one last time.

“What’s Past Is Prologue”

Lorca gives a speech to his compatriots in the agonizer booths before setting them free.

An unfinished scene where Stamets discusses the poor state of the spores in voice-over as the camera follows him through the sickly crops of spores in the mycelial storage bay (which at this point is just a soundstage of green screens). Then back in the engineering lab, Stamets and Tilly discuss the crop and how to treat it. Our Stamets mentions seeing Hugh in the mycelial network and that he told him what Mirror Stamets was doing.

“Will You Take My Hand?” 

The “bonus scene” of Leland recruiting Emperor Georgiou into Section 31, first shown at WonderCon.

What’s missing?

There are a few more deleted scenes known to exist, but not included on the set:

“Battle at the Binary Stars” – There are two known scenes that were deleted or majorly edited down.

One of T’Kuvma and L’Rell where T’Kuvma lights a ceremonial Bat’leth-like torch and L’Rell follows him. This scene was part of a Comic-Con photo spread in Entertainment Weekly from July 2017.

Another is an unspecified scene that David Mack worked into his novel Desperate Hours based on the final draft of the script, but the scene was heavily edited in post-production. Mack told the podcast Literary Treks: “They cut an entire character, they cut half of a scene.”

“Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum” – Two extended scenes are known to exist.

An extension to the scene where Tilly and Stamets talk in the mess hall about how the spore jumps have affected him, Culber comes in and Tilly gets squirmy trying to keep Stamets’ secret.

There was also more to the L’Rell and Cornwell interrogation scene, where Cornwell pushes back and uses some psychological tactics to try to throw off L’Rell.

“Will You Take My Hand?” – A deleted scene of Starfleet admirals meeting with a Klingon delegation to sign a cease fire.

Other potential content

We’ve heard they did not make an outtakes reel for the cast, so alas there is no blooper reel for the set.

After Trek, the official aftershow for season one, is not included on the set. After Trek was made by production company Embassy Row for CBS, which means different licensing, and it would also mean upping the number of discs in the set to fit more bonus content, so it’s not surprising After Trek isn’t there, but a bit of a bummer nonetheless.

Final thoughts

This Blu-ray is the highest quality way to watch Discovery Season 1, so for people who care about getting the best audio-video experience, this is the set for them. It’s also recommended for collectors, as well as anyone who wants an offline copy of the show; this includes people who can not or do not want to stream the show, and folks who have concerns about the fleeting rights to streaming media.

 

More season 1 images


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Michael Hall

I mostly liked the pilot, in spite of its flaws. (You can make a pretty good case that it’s Trek’s third-best, after the TOS and DS9 pilots.) Thought “Context is for Kings” and “Lethe” were terrific. Most of the other shows had their moments, and their disappointments. Frakes’ re-introduction to the Mirror Universe was well done, but it was still an ill-considered detour from what was supposed to be an epic war arc that had been shortchanged from the beginning. Then came that awful finale, which betrayed just about everything the show had managed to get right over the season, pretty much wasting the efforts of Fuller, the FX and production artists, and a fine cast. Final grade: C+, and if that seems like quite the comedown from a promising start, it’s because it was.

Please, let them get it right in Season 2.

Jenny

Why do people insist of labelling thing they dislike as flaws? It’s utterly ridiculous

albatrosity

Why are people so caustic towards other people’s opinions? That’s what I find odd

Luke

I love when people like you would try do deny people like Michael the right to express their opinion. It was well thought out and didn’t take a shot at anybody.

Afterburn

Nobody is denying anyone’s right to express their opinion. If Albatrosity wants to label the comment caustic that’s fair (even if i’d disagree), but really, nobody here is stopping anyone from expressing themselves.

ML31

No one is stopping them because they don’t have the power to do so. Many, however, have stated over and over that they do not like when people post their negative opinions of the show and have stated they think those who do that ought not.

Afterburn

I do not like when people voice their regurgitated negative opinions of the show a year after it’s aired. And if I were your dictator, there would be punishments for it.

That said, nobody is denying anyone’s rights here, which is what Luke stated. Yet, you still felt the need to rebuke me, even though you are very clearly wrong.

Michael Hall

Yes, I’ll cop to it that my post was a restatement — “regurgitation” may be somewhat unkind, as well as unappetizing — of what I’d written about Discovery previously. But since this article concerns a box set of episodes that DSC had aired previously, I’d still consider it appropriate. YMMV, of course.

ML31

Curious… I was agreeing with you and giving you reasons why no one was stopping people from expressing themselves. Yet you just said I was wrong. By extension, that makes you wrong too. (although the fact is neither of us are in this instance.)

Michael Hall

Have no idea what you’re on about here and, frankly, don’t much care. You just like to argue, and I don’t find that attitude particularly productive.

ML31

Sorry Michael. This was a response to Afterburn. I guess I should have made that clear. The way the posts are structured it isn’t always. Your assessment of my just wanting to argue is wrong, however. I’m all for having discussions.

Tom

1. Dump Burnham as the main character. She’s not charismatic enough.
2. Get rid of the stupid artificial film grain. Also CBS in its infinite wisdom decided not to finish STD at 4k? Dumb.

Land O'Calrissian

Burnham is the show’s best character. There is absolutely no reason to dump her. That’s ridiculous.

Ad Astra Per Aspera

Haters are going to find *any* excuse to hate on Discovery.

kmart

No, AdAdstaAdNauseam, that’s the argument to take when the attack is on something trivial or decidedly odd, suggesting desperation on part of poster. This is citing the lead character as being problematic, which is very specific (and to my eyes, accurate), not a ‘haters’ thing.

albatrosity

They aren’t haters 🙄 these are legitimate criticisms, whether you agree or not. Not everyone has to like your show the way you do, and they don’t have to have reasons you can understand…right?

slider

And likers are going to like anything they invested in (wink).

Jonboc

She’s horrible. Her acting comes off like a 3rd grade “reading aloud” exercise. Her delivery is monotone and lifeless, which, in turn makes her character wooden.
To illustrate good acting vs bad, I reccomend watching Sir Patrick Stewart, in TNG… then watch Gates McFadden. Stewart is a talented, natural actor. McFadden recites dialogue. Sadly, SMG falls squarely in the McFadden camp…with those chops, she has no business playing the lead in any series.

Luke

I’d have to agree with Jonboc, personally I think Georgiou or Saru would’ve made better leads. Additionally this is the only Star Trek show where I still feel like I know nothing about the rest of the main cast, even names after the first season. What’s the helmsman’s name?

tony

well she is playing a human raised by Vulcans so that may explain her approach.

HubcapDave

I agree with Tony. What some perceive as “bad acting” may actually attributable to the character she’s playing and the choice she’s made to play it. I, for one, have no problem with her.

ML31

That’s true but that’s also another aspect of her character I thought would be fascinating. It was never delved into whatsoever. It would appear that she was fully settled. If she ever had a Human/Vulcan societal conflict, it seems to have been dealt with years ago. That said, there have been other Vulcans in Trek who were more interesting and engaging than SMG has been. This could be her skills or it could be the material she is required to deliver or both.

ML31

I’m forced to agree with Jonboc. The McFadden to Stewart comparison was solid, if not a bit unfair as Stewart can make a lot of actors look bad. But still a great point. I haven’t seen enough of SMG’s work (never seen The Walking Dead which I heard she was in) to determine if she is just a sub-par actress or not. So at this point I think I will just say I think she has been miscast. Just as Yeoh has been miscast. These parts just don’t seem to agree with either of them. I would, however, like to point out that neither of them have had very good material to work with to begin with. So that needs to be considered.

slider

Please don’t compare Burnham is the talented Gates.

Danpaine

Couldn’t disagree more. Her character is wooden and insipid. I was hoping that after her work on The Walking Dead, Discovery would really give SMG an opportunity to stretch her acting legs. If anything, so far that’s turned out to be the opposite.

slider

Nobody was surprised.

slider

Saying Burnham is the best character is like saying Rey in the new Star Wars movies is fantastic. Ha, ha!

Curious Cadet

@Tom — and what do you see is the downside to not being finished in 4K? It is in HDR, which in my experience makes a much more substantial difference over HD than 4K resolution. When the 100”+ TV is common in households 10-20 years from now, along with unlimited super high speed bandwidth, then the lack of 4K may have some impact on the viewer’s perception of the quality, but otherwise few are likely going to miss it — especially if it’s shot in 2.35:1.

DataMat

Honestly what is the difference between 4k and Bluray 1080p? It’s not worth moaning about really, is it?

And also, I cannot at all feel compelled to by this set as I’m in no rush to watch the season again, and definitely not multiple times. It’s be cheaper to have a month membership of Netflix and just stream them rather than pay out for a boxset I will not watch over and again anytime soon.

SimonTC

People used to say the same about DVD and Blu-ray. There can be a HUGE difference, especially if you have a high end display. The differences will only increase as the technology matures, just as it did with HD.

Gary M Mize

I only have meterd net, cable is not available here, no satellite dish because of trees. So I wait for DVDs. Standard DVD set was like $34 at Walmart. Cheaper than a year of all access. Same as HBOs West world. And Netflix’s Lost in space. The only 3 showes I would watch on each service. So they limit themselves and me.

albatrosity

The downside Curious Cadet is because we’ll all be living in a world of 4K and 8K screens in like 10, 15 years tops. The downside is the exact same downside with TNG being on videotape. If they aren’t making Discovery 4K, which is crazy cuz they totally could do that, then they’re essentially dating the show to last decade’s resolution standards of quality, when they could’ve just done it right in the first place.

skyjedi

It was shot on the Arri Alexa it does not yield 4K of resolution. It was shot at 2.8K.

kmart

Skyjedi, Plenty of shows are shot at less than 4K (SKYFALL was shot at 2.8 on the Alexa, but then finished at 4K. Difference is that was done by Roger Deakins, who ia an utter genius and master of the form, be it digital or celluloid.)

Most of those same shows also have their vfx done at 2K or HD rez levels, not at 4K. Until or unless people boycott shows done this way, it isn’t going to be changed, except in the way that many distribs act. Typically, netflix only accepts material originated at 4K, but obviously an exception was made on this.

skyjedi

I also think Discovery was completed at 2k unless i am mistaken so the show would be an upscale. When a show or movie or digital intermediate is done at 2k it really is perfectly fine for a standard blu ray. Force Awakens was finished at 2k for example when Last Jedi was at 4k.

slider

Arri Alexa is currently why all TV and movies look bad.

kmart

Sweeping generalize much? More likely that crappy digital intermediates (owing to too many hands in the post kitchen) transforming the image into teal-heavy coloration is doing more damage than any camera acquisition system from the last decade.

Digital cameras from the early 2000s (the kind that made ATTACK OF THE CLONES look like a BARNEY MILLER episode) … now that’s another kettle of fish altogether, though in a perfect world, I’d take a well-maintained 65mm film camera over all of the above digital ones.

slider

Not just the digital grading, the cameras are not capable of taking in natural light. Those cameras were built for capturing darkness which is why all sky is cloudy on screen.

kmart

Matt,
Very good points, especially that last. Which is why most of the cinematographers using the Alexa 65 or some other super duper 6K to 8K capture system choose to ‘cut’ that too-sharp look by using older lenses that have more warmth and softness (often described as a more filmic or cinematic look by DPs.)

Curious Cadet

@albatrosity — it all depends on what you think 4K and 8K pixels gets you. Most of the content out there is less than 4K, so DISC is in very good company, and will be for many years to come. Most consumer bandwidth can’t handle 4K much less 8K, which that may or may not change during the next decade. And the eye really can’t resolve 4K, much less 8K, from standard TV viewing distances, much less mobile devices, which is increasingly where many viewers are watching their TV these days. I also find it hard to believe that in 10-15 years the majority of TVs will be 4K, and certainly very few will be 8K, especially when there are homes that still have CRT TVs which haven’t been upgraded. And given that some people have only recently upgraded to 1080p TVs in the last few years, they’re unlikely to rush out and upgrade to 4K for at least 10-15 years. The content still costs something to produce at higher resolutions so it’s not like CBS is making this decision trivially. Regardless, it’s nothing like the leap from finishing a series on videotape which was at a 480i standard, and an analogue one at that. The leap from analogue 480i to Digital 1080p is staggering in terms of what the eye can perceive. 480i looks horrific on my 32” 1080p TV where as 1080p looks indistinguishable from 4K on my 65” 4K TV. And I gurantee CBS took that all into consideration. As both a consumer and entertainment professional, I can say I don’t think there’s a right answer here. Now maybe in 50-100 years when studios are converting their programs to fully immersive holographic VR mediums, they will wish that DISC had been produced in 4K or even 8K… Read more »

skyjedi

If you can see all the flaws in Star Trek TOS that you never could on a traditional broadcast or videotape, just imagine what a 4k scan would reveal.

albatrosity

I mean, I disagree with your assessment obviously. Yes, I still have one single CRT from the early 2000s. I don’t use it for serious viewing. Even 4K sets are coming down dramatically in price and already are the majority of the available models in retail places. With the ubiquity of screens and increasing bandwidth/data speeds [5G is coming fast], the upcoming new TV standards and the decreasing cost of increasing resolution, I fully expect the transition to 4K to be complete in 10 years, and I’m pretty sure the industry more or less expects the same. As someone in his mid 20s, I think you’re expressing a very out of date perspective that 4K won’t be relevant for a while.

tacotuesday

Come on Tom, I know you can’t stand Discovery but act like an adult and use DIS or DSC.

slider

It’s been colour graded and it shows really badly.

DeanH

Funny how I always have to keep reminding myself that social media and forum posts are often not representative of the overall popularity of a show or movie. After reading many comments and viewing some videos regarding Star Trek Discovery, one would think this is the worse show in the history of television. And because it is available via streaming in the US, it is hard to gauge the popularity of the first season. Yes, the show broke records in Canada on Space Channel and yes, it seems to have quite an international audience on Netflix, but I often wonder if fans really do like the show. Well at CCNY the cast panel hall was filled to capacity and when I went to Fan Expo in Toronto, the lineup to get into the Discovery cast panel lined the lower hall and main floor north and south walls. Earlier today, I went to check on the itunes trends for November and much to my surprise, Star Trek Discovery is the number one trending tv series boxset and 4th most popular tv show download. And that is without any kind of itunes promo campaign.

Wayne Alford

Star Trek Las Vegas was hugely focused on Discovery and DSC cosplay filled the convention. Many young fans and old fans filled the DSC panels to capacity.
This show is extremely more popular than the toxicfanbase would like anyone to know.
Very reminiscent of the supposedly dead Star Wars franchise which suddenly broke all movie ticket records with TFA.

DeanH

Thanks for the info re STLV. One of these days I will have to check that out because the agenda and guest list always great. Maybe the Disco cast will be doing an anniversary reunion panel at STLV 2027

albatrosity

You cannot say the SW franchise was “supposedly dead” before TFA. Star Wars fever has never died. Since the 90s it’s been non-stop Star Wars. TFA was always going to break records because that’s how the public consumes the brand. Its absence is one of the reasons reboot Trek was as popular as it was, because it was like a Star Wars fix while waiting for the real deal to come back.

Denny C

Star Wars was far from dead and still earning buckets of cash for Lucas before selling everything to Disney. Star Trek, however, was not in the best of shape before 2009. Star Trek on television still has life in it but it’s unlikely to reach the heights of TNG.

Land O'Calrissian

So many of the people who post here do not come off as Star Trek fans. They spend most of their time complaining.

albatrosity

Cuz that’s the mark of a true fan — we can all agree we love Trek, but beyond that no one knows what that means specifically. We all have our own reasons to like or dislike the shows we watch. You can listen to some people’s thoughts, you can listen to other people’s. But you don’t have to like, let it upset you. This is just discourse. We’re allowed to talk about these things. Unless they’re being abusive or offensive, cuz then it’s not okay.

DeanH

Well said and thank you for a very logical posting. Sadly, for some reason there are some on this board that still choose to personally attack actors and other posters and you just have to learn to ignore those posts and treat them as irrelevant.

Tiger2

I agree 100% albatrosity!

End of the day none of this is a big deal or offensive. They are just giving their thoughts on a TV show. I don’t get why some people take this stuff so personally??? It’s the internet, being critical is sort of what the internet is about lol.

And then what’s more bizarre to me some take offense people are just expressing their views on a show that is out but then brings up TNG first season as if it happened yesterday lol. It’s funny how many times that is brought up here over and over again. Of course you can bring it up but if you are STILL bringing up stuff from shows that happened literally decades ago and that hasn’t been on the air in twenty years then you can’t be surprised people are simply being critical of a show that A. Just started and B. That is barely a year old. Right?

I really don’t get it? Especially as you said most people who are critical aren’t going out their way to attack people that like it, they are simply expressing why they have issues with it themselves. And they are VALID issues. If you can’t hear criticism of a TV show, the internet is the wrong place for you.

ML31

” If you can’t hear criticism of a TV show, the internet is the wrong place for you.”

This. This. And this.

Danpaine

See, comments like this raise my ire. I watch so much Star Trek it’s a little embarrassing to admit. I am a Fan. I don’t like Discovery thus far. Guess what? I’m still a Fan of Trek. Pretty simple.

ML31

I’ve always likened being a fan of a media franchise like Trek is like being a fan of a pro sports team. Just because the team currently sucks doesn’t mean you stop being a fan of that team. That is when the fans complain the loudest! Why? Because they CARE! Fans care and they want their team or their Trek to be good and do not like it when they aren’t.

slider

Or maybe we just like good Star Trek?

Afterburn

Ding ding ding.

And yet there are those who will insist nobody likes the show, and it was an utter failure for CBS.

ML31

Really? I haven’t heard anyone speak of the show in such absolutes.

JRT!

Saw the STD cast panel at NYCC on YT,looked like fun! Didn’t bother going to the panel when I was at NYCC though,had a lot of other things to do and check out,lol!

albatrosity

Ah the Disco panel was so fun, truly impressive how many fans packed that theater.

JRT!

You attended the STD panel? COOL!! I was busy checking out the vendors and such,NYCC is always fun!

Denny C

Filling a hall to capacity is never the best read of a shows overall popularity since the people who want to be there will want to be in attendance . What it does mean, however, is that the show has its fans.

Afterburn

I don’t think anyone is using it as a gauge of the size of the fandom for the show, just as an indicator that the “everyone hates Discovery” angle is just plain wrong.

Jonboc

To be fair, curiosity doesn’t exactly equal affection.

DeanH

Since Discovery has primarily only been available on CBSAA, these iTunes trending stats are the first concrete ratings metric showing just how much interest there is in Star Trek Discovery show in America. Uh maybe all those buying on iTunes are also just curious!!

Afterburn

To be fair, nor does it equal hate. See, we can keep playing this game, and the “everyone hates Discovery” crowd will keep being wrong.

ML31

And the ability to fill a room does not translate to overall nationwide love.

ML31

People have often cited how well STD is being streamed internationally. I’d really like to know how they figure that. Netflix never releases their viewing numbers. It could be doing just fine. But the opposite could be true. We just don’t know. CBS told us how they were doing when it first stared. But soon after such announcements stopped. My guess is it is not doing what the streamers were hoping but it’s not the worst performing thing on their catalog. It’s somewhere in between.

One thing is for sure… Gauging the world wide or even national popularity of something based on how many people fill a room at a convention is hardly a good read of how well the thing is doing outside of that venue.

slider

I’m sure the same thing happened with the JJ movies.

dayxday

I’ve enjoyed the series somewhat. It’s the same way I felt about Enterprise when it first debuted. It’s interesting to me that these follow-up series to a formulaic show from the sixties take so long to find their footing. Hoping that season two is better than season one.

Starch Wreck

I looked into the special features.

Still couldn’t find a coherent plot hidden in there.

Sorry.

Harry Ballz

This series might LOOK great, but the storylines need a LOT of work. Dump Burnham!

Afterburn

I felt the same way about pretty much the entire cast of DS9 midway through season 1.

DeanH

Re DS9, that is so true. I didn’t see many episodes of DS9 while it was being made but I decided to go back to it when it hit syndication. After seeing the show in its entirety, it got better as the seasons went on and in retrospect, the show was fantastic – well written and acted out by a talented and likable cast. Many of the episodes are easily on my top 20 favorite Star Trek list. I hope Disco gets a long run and maybe many of the naysayers will feel the same way about it, sometime in the future.

Afterburn

As for Burnham, I don’t love her, but there’s enough there to grow from, and anyone expecting her to ever being written out is going to be in for a shock when she very likely is elevated to Captain by the end of this season.

ML31

I’ve got some bridges to sell to anyone who is shocked by Burnham’s predictable promotion to Captain.

ML31

I hope so too but I found STD to be lacking in a way that DS9 was not. Sure, their beginning was not that fantastic. But it still felt like it had something there. STD has a lot of issues DS9 never had. So their road to recovery will be a lot tougher. Not impossible, mind you. Just difficult.

Danpaine

“It’s a mess, ain’t it, Sheriff?”
“If it ain’t, it’ll do till the mess gets here.”
– No Country For Old Men.

ML31

Feel the same way. The production values are indeed top notch. The plot and story and some of the characters need a ton of work, however.

slider

It can’t even get the ‘look’ right.

ML31

True but to be fair a lot of that was likely Bryan Fuller’s influence. What we have seen of season 2 the Enterprise looks like had they been allowed they would have nailed the look.

snugglepuffxlz

Only the extras left you wanting more? How about that it’s about to be 2019 and this is only being released in 1080p? 5.1 surround sound? Again, it’s 2019, we should be getting the BEST with trek. This should be a minimum of 7.1 with Dolby Atmos or DTS:X formats. Hell, they should probably have mixed this in Auro 3D for the best sound. This home media release on this is pathetic.

Afterburn

1080p 5.1 dolby atmos dst:x 7.1 Auro 3d… I really don’t care about the tech specs, and i’d guess the majority of fans don’t either. I’d also guess most people are streaming anyway. You couldn’t pay me to buy a home video release of anything these days.

Anger of this sort of thing is really misplaced.

kmart

Not if you care about what you watch, it isn’t!

Afterburn

Yes it is, K. I mean, really, it’s tech specs of video of a tv show, and you’re anger that a few pixels aren’t where you want them to be, and the imagined quality isn’t as you perceive it.

Oh brother we’ve lost our way.

kmart

‘a few pixels’ might describe the difference between TNG and TNG remastered, which is honestly a world of difference.

Afterburn

You’re right about TNG but that is not relevant here.

kmart

Hey, I’m using your own parameters. You cited ‘tech specs of video of a tv show’ and that is the basis of my reply, so don’t backtrack now to try to claim a lack of relevance.
Ogeez, I just realized … you’re the same ignorant poster saying DSC has great vfx and that I don’t know what I’m talking about! Okay, so that gives me all the justification I need to ignore everything you post from here on in.

albatrosity

There’s no “anger” to misplace…again, everyone on this site takes everyone else’s comments to the extreme. It’s like, why yall get so personal about a differing opinion? Snuggle is totally right about this: for the video and audio quality we can get on disc today, this release looks like it could’ve come out in 2006. It’s a very poor quality release in that respect. You may not have the setup to support 4K, but there are plenty of people who do and there will be many times more in the coming years. To not accommodate that market is truly foolish, and there’s literally no reason not to have just done it that way in the first place, the way so many titles already are. Does that sound angry? Or does it just sound like a point?

Afterburn

Truly foolish, he says. Hilarious, and yes that sounds angry.

albatrosity

I’m glad you found it funny! But I can say unequivocally that you’re wrong. Or rather, you may have heard anger in my post, but there was none.

SimonTC

Auro3D is the *worst* of the immersive formats. It’s MATRIX based, not object based and requires 2 levels of speakers plus a single VOG speaker on the ceiling. It’s tremendously impractical for both theaters and the home – and exactly why it’s the least popular with NO major USA home releases in the format and weak theatrical support. If you want the best you mix and release in Dolby Atmos.

Jonboc

I’d trade all that high tech sound for a decent story and likable characters.

albatrosity

Hear hear! This is why I’d rather watch grainy original VFX TOS on DVD than an episode of Disco. At least that captivated me. Disco is…aite 🤷‍♂️

Afterburn

You agree, but continue to rant about technical specs that make no difference to the quality of the story and characters (and don’t even make any difference to the way you would enjoy it even if that were to your satisfaction).

albatrosity

Yeah I agree with him: story and characters are more important than anything. That goes for a radio drama or a VR video game. I can agree with that and make the point I was making above, that in 2018 it’s really unacceptable for a state-of-the-art high production “prestige television” show to not be shot and distributed in 4K. ESPECIALLY a show for Trek fans, who I would think are pretty tech-savvy and like being fully immersed in their sci-fi show. Again…do I sound angry? Cuz I’m not. I’m making an argument.

albatrosity

Really! I didn’t know that and I think, again, that’s outrageous and very near-sighted. Seems like everyone I know bought a 4K TV this past week. So CBS and HBO are gonna pay for an expensive upconvert sometime down the line? Like come on.

SimonTC

“The show has never looked better”
Actually that’s not true. On Netflix it is streamed with Dolby Vision HDR (1080p). The show is lit and graded for HDR presentation. Unfortunately All Access does not support it and neither does standard Blu-ray. For TV programming, so far only WESTWORLD and GAME OF THRONES (Season 1 currently) have been released in 4K HDR on disc with Dolby Vision.

Afterburn

Better is subjective. Personally nothing i’ve seen above 1080 is any better at all, and in fact in some respects is vastly inferior to me.

ML31

Everyone’s opinion is valid. But that comment just reminds me of my dad 15 years ago claiming to not see any difference between standard def and high def. (And no, it’s not the same, I know. The jump from SD to HD was bigger than the jump from HD to 4K. It just sounds similar. That’s all.)

Stelios Arianoutsos

HDR? Dolby Vision? Netflix have both!

kmart

It is how those tools are wielded, not that it is a win just because they are applied. Nearly every cinematographer I interview is concerned with how haphazard HDR might be messing up their work – you can easily wind up with a shot of a character against an out of focus background with lit building windows, and those windows will wind up popping and distracting away from the shot’s intended area of interest.

Stelios Arianoutsos

Totally agree! The first part of 1st season was looking pretty weird on HDR and Dolby Vision. On the second part, picture find the glory needed :)

SimonTC

And nearly every colorist also appreciates that Dolby Vision is able to exactly reproduce their intended look through the entire chain from grading suite to the final output because it uses metadata to instruct the display.

kmart

Simon,
I’d be a lot more impressed by that comment if you could get nearly every cinematographer to echo that view. But since DPs aren’t always even included in the DI process, the matter of ‘intended look’ is seriously open to interpretation, given rethinks by producers, director and at time, yes, colorists. A lot of A WRINKLE IN TIME doesn’t look anything like what the cinematographer intended; there are scenes shot on one planet where the actors are stripped out of the scene and placed in a different environment in post, which renders all the original contrast and color values as invalid, which is probably why the trailers I saw for it looked more like TELETUBBIES instead of a major motion picture.

laroux

Sorry that my English is not my first language!

Why no model kit of USS DISCOVERY? I need one so very bad!

Please Round 2, do a making of a 1/350 scale USS DISCOVERY please?

Surely many would get sell?

Thank you

DeanH

I am not sure what scale is used but I do know that Trekmovie.com featured models earlier this year from a company called Eaglemoss. They had a number of Discovery models available but I am not sure if they are still available. Just do a Google search and you should find the proper links.

albatrosity

Yeah go to Eaglemoss. You can find Discovery ships there as well as like almost every other ship in Trek. Just don’t get carried away with it like I did…I think I have 30 of them now or something 😬

Mark Calcagno

I have over 100…
I had to buy a bookshelf for them

Binyamin

I joined Netflix to See DIS, with the HD option. Generally, very good picture; dark scenes – horrible compression artifacts.

DataMat

The horrible compression artefacts is likely the actual quality of how the show was made and will be no different on a physical disc format.

Land O'Calrissian

The special features are rather weak, I have to agree. But marathoning the series in high-definition is fantastic.

Gotcha

I don’t think they need to dump the Burnham character, but I do think they need to make her more, uh, human and ease back on the uptight Vulcan stuff. Give her some eccentricities like previous leading Trek characters — a hobby, a sport, an obsession with coffee, anything to show us she’s more than a standard hero with deep, deep problems with villains and parental figures. Heck, even Spock liked to play a lute once in a while.

albatrosity

I agree, I don’t want to see her character axed, just improved! SMG is a talent and I’m sure the writers will get the hang of her. Can’t wait for next season to see.

ML31

As the lead, she needs to be improved or dumped. Maybe the seemingly upcoming change in tone of the show along with better writers might help…

Gary M Mize

Is this a series or a 15 episode mini series? The continues story line changes direction and where the major actors part in the story fit in makes it like a mini series from the 70s. No set form as any star trek series of the past. So many come and go it feels like a 15 part movie, not a series. Who will go next? Die, just leave, or totally become the opposite of a stable trek series cast as we remember from past series? The story was great for a movie or mini series, but the lack of stability of the people in it suck as a series.

This is a modern Star Trek series. Check Netflix’s Marvel series for a better look at the template. Seasons are planned to tell a complete arc, but it leaves the characters open ended, in case there is a new season ahead.

Jonboc

Sadly they have abandoned the self contained storytelling and, instead, launched into a rather reckless and ultimately head-scratching 15 hour “arc”. I Guess the serialized format could be engaging with the right story and clever writing…but Discovery had niether. If you have to sample it, redbox it…you’ll be thankful you saved your money.

SimonTC

Or maybe you will go into it with an open mind, realize TREK has grown up – as well as realizing television and serialized storytelling in drama is now the norm.

kmart

It’ll have grown up when it has writer the caliber of DEADWOOD and CARNIVALE and THE WIRE, or at the very least those of TOS and some DS9 scribes like Peter Allan Fields.

And expecting all storytelling to fit into the serialized format that is the fad now is shoehorning dramatic potential in a way that can curtail its effectiveness. Would you want to see a series where Kirk is mooning over Edith Keeler for half the season? That’d be as bad as that endless stretch in TOP GUN after Anthony Edwards dies, when Cruise just mopes (my classic example of how movies — even bad ones like that — can stop their dramatic build at exactly the wrong time in service to character.)

slider

Important lesson: Always tell exciting stories, not seasons.

kmart

You got it!

Danpaine

Then in that case I wish it was the caliber of Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Game of Thrones, or (in many cases over the years) The Walking Dead, and make it unbearable for me to wait a week until the next episode. Discovery S1 had none of that going for it for this viewer.

ML31

That is the norm for streaming and cable series’ yes. But Jonboc is correct in that for such a format to work you need an engaging story and decent writing. Something that season 1 of STD was in very short supply of. For example, I recently saw the first season of Jessica Jones on Netflix. Short season. Full season story arc. And it was engaging. Interesting. And almost every episode left me wanting to get to the next one to see what would happen next. Sadly, STD had none of that. I think it would have worked better to have self contained episodes but the story arc would have been the characters growing and learning over the course of the season. Once they are firmly established, THEN you can have a war arc or something that links directly from episode to episode.

ML31

That’s the way streaming and cable shows are these days. They are essentially mini-series’ like from the 70’s.

slider

Agreed. It’s badly written and the stop/start nature of the storytelling doesn’t allow proper interesting things to happen. Serialised TV is essentially a lazy way to write today.

The Collector

Leaves us wanting more… such as adequate writing, no disregard for canon/insulting the intelligence of fans… heck, how about some actual Trek?

I went on a little TNG binge yesterday, The Wounded, The Defector, Liaisons… three very different episodes, but each very enjoyable, well crafted and acted. Discovery is dreadful, just pretentious nonsense. I pray Season 2 is much better, but I’m not holding my breath as Kurtzman and Goldsman are so heavily involved.

Tiger2

LOL I watched The Wounded a week ago too. Such a well done story. It’s crazy that was the first time the Cardassians showed up. I’m hoping we see those guys again on the Picard show.

Hopefully season 2 of DIS will be better and get to that level of story telling again.

odradek

I would be glad to see the Cardassians again, but only if they are not depicted as Nazis anymore. Nazi regime in Germany lasted only about 12 years and Germans are still depicted as Nazis. I know the Cardassians can do better. Maybe they founded a Union with Bajor and now build up an own Defence Fleet against the Romulans, Klingons and even the Federation. Which would be a wise step, since the Federation has voted a Pakled as their President.

Tiger2

Who depicts the Germans as Nazis today? Well maybe Trump I guess, but he’s just trying to win votes. ;D

The Cardassians did get pretty beat up after the Dominion war so they may not be on that footing anymore. Then again, its Cardassians, you don’t turn your back on the Cardies, ever.

I’m actually fine to see them go a more gentle approach, which to be fair we saw them mostly as civil people UNTIL the Dominion war started. Before then they seem like they were trying to become more diplomatic with the Federation but it was always on shaky ground, which is also why they were interesting to watch.

odradek

Agreed, they were fun to watch that way. That makes me realize that I would be more on board with a series about the Obsidian Order than about Section 31. Georgiou as a Mata-Hari-like character, working for the Cardassians, would make much more sense than her working for Section 31. And I would like to see Cardassians of this era wearing Pickelhauben :D

Afterburn

And how many episodes of TNG were absolutely atrocious to the point of unwatchable? I don’t think i’ve watched more than 2 episodes of Season 1 in over a decade. Selective memory and cherry picking.

DSC is fabulous. Well written, well acted, great FX, wonderful stories with strong ethical and moral messaging. You can spew your hate all you want but hey, a year later, you’re still talking about it and ready to watch Season 2, so big win for CBS.

kmart

No win for CBS here. Watched it on a free trial and never again for s1. Imagine same will be true for s2, though my staying power to get through the whole thing may not last unless things improve drastically.

I’m still wondering why CBS is being so tight with the reins on b-t-s tech info. If they are serious about trying to pursue Emmy noms/wins, they are going to have to let their camera and vfx folks do some press other than the little PR vids.

Geez, did you say ‘great fx’ without being facetious? Okay, you lost all cred just on that, based on the godawful spaceship exteriors.

Afterburn

Oh boy, you’ve found the free loophole. They still won, because you’re talking about it and watching. Your use of their trial is something they will tout in investor calls.

Yes, wonderful FX. You had no credibility to begin with, though, so your judgement means naught.

Jonboc

Wonderful FX?? In Discovery?? Are you kidding? 1990 called, the Video Toaster wants it’s effects back. 😂

slider

The effects are really wobbly on Discovery not helped by the lens flare and colour grading.

kmart

Hey, some of the Toaster stuff was kinda-sorta alright! I liked early B5 stuff.

I’m sure that if I had gone in with my filmmaking partner on getting an Amiga and learning Lightwave when we first discussed applications for the Toaster, that my income over the last 27 years would be at least triple or quadruple what it turned out to be, plus I’d have been upwardly mobile instead of remaining stagnant technologically. As it stands, the last program I wrote (a very simple one at that) was for a Commodore 128 …

Jonboc

Don’t get me wrong, I love me some B5…including the toaster work! I just think the modern effects folks, especially on Trek, should be setting the bar, not crawling underneath it.

slider

Oh my gosh even Babylon 5’s effects look more real than Discovery’s.

kmart

I’ve been writing professionally about vfx for 28 years in most of the respected journals and mags and online outlets, so when you acquire a tenth of my bona fides, you check back in with me, AFTERBURN. Till then, your judgement is meaningless.

HubcapDave

When taken as a whole, S1 Disco fares better than most S1 Trek shows. Only TOS’ first season is measurably better, in my mind.

Tiger2

See in my mind, it isn’t. The only first season shows I thought was worse than Discovery was TNG and ENT. And only a little better than Enterprise to me. I thought all the others were easily much better by a mile.

End of the day, none of this is carved in stone. It’s all very subjective. I don’t doubt people who say they thought the first season of DIS was very good for them. But this opinion doesn’t seem to be any kind of consensus either anywhere.

DeanH

Yeah all good points. I personally like Discovery, but it obviously has some flaws and I expect the show will get better as it goes along. What I am confused with is that there are some that seem to actually despise the show, spewing vitriol and contempt for the actors, characters and production staff. I know that some of the criticisms have validity but of all my friends and family who love Star Trek in one of its many forms, I don’t know anyone (and I mean zero persons) that don’t like the new show. That doesn’t mean the naysayer’s opinions don’t matter, but I am very happy that enough fans have bought AA, watched on Space and Netflix and are now buying Discovery on itunes or are picking up the Blu-ray discs – because those numbers and opinions are the ones that help justify the dollars CBS has committed to Short Treks, Picard, Lower Decks, and hopefully other projects that will mean Trek should be around for decades to come.

Tiger2

People who are nasty against the actors, writers, producers, etc are just a sad symptom of internet culture. We know cyber bullying is a real thing and while I think fans wouldn’t describe what they are doing as bullying per se, a lot of it come off so toxic and mean spirited to the people who make this stuff it can probably feel like that to the people who is receiving it.

Of course I always say as bad as Trek fans can be we haven’t gotten to the level of Star Wars fandom lately that is just brutal. There is now an entire league of fans who seem to have made it their mission to destroy Rian Johnson on the internet. It’s just so bitter and nasty. Yeah TLJ had problems, but he didn’t run a concentration camp so yeah.

As far as DIS, yes, it can improve. Every Trek show has improved IMO and why they all seem popular today. Even ENT is pretty liked if not loved which tells you quality wise the franchise is fine. And even though I been critical of it I’ve always said I think more people like DIS than hate it. I just don’t think it’s loved all that much, at least based on what I been seeing. It really does seem to be mixed more than anything.

And thats fine. It’s early, show has lots of time to improve. And its great for others who do love it now. I like DIS, I do, but it just didn’t connect with me like so many other shows did. And I don’t want it cancelled obviously, I just want it better.

slider

Any first season of Star Trek fares better than Discovery but then that’s not difficult.

Danpaine

“Fabulous.” All due respect and no offense intended, but out of all the shows I watch – and I watch a lot – Discovery S1 is so far from fabulous compared to most of them it’s hysterical. The only reason I’m here still talking about it is because I’m an old school Trek fan (and very bored at work) and any Trek news is better than no news. But ‘fabulous?’ And kmart is right – the space shots are abysmal. I hope a different approach, on almost every level, is used for the Picard show. And I hope S2 of Discovery is at least fun this time around. And I hope to God no one buys me this disc for X-Mas and I have to pretend to be thrilled.

ML31

“And how many episodes of TNG were absolutely atrocious to the point of unwatchable?”

Thanks to the acting chops of Sir Patrick Stewart, pretty much none of them. He had the charisma to make unwatchable episodes watchable. And I say this as someone who thinks Captain Picard is a boring character and TNG to be a mostly pedestrian show. For the record, and I’m not ripping your take on the show, there are at least as many who see the show as the exact opposite as your take.

DataMat

Discovery is better acted than TNG season 1, I think all of us can agree. Although I still believe Stewart can trump anything we saw in Discovery S1 (maybe I am biased?)
Doesn’t really mean problems don’t exist.
Discovery is almost cartoonist for me. It felt flat and the story didn’t engage me. The characters have not connected with me neither, yet.
I felt like I did very quickly grow to love The TNG characters in S1 despite the obvious cheesy nature of many of the actual episodes (To be fair it was the 1980s!)

Tiger2

I agree about TNG DataMat,

The first season had a lot of problems but I grew very quickly to like the characters on that show and made it watchable enough. DIS was watchable too but the characters didn’t connect with me at all with the exception of Georgiou, Saru and Lorca and two of them are dead. As I always make clear though I’m not blaming the actors, I thought they were all fine. I don’t even have an issue with SMG as so many seem to have here but I just didn’t feel any real connection with them. Too much of the show felt a bit cold and sterile I guess. That said I didn’t hate any of them either (I actually did hate Staments when he was originally introduced but that changed after a few episodes).

But I think with better stories I will like them more in time.

slider

Any episode from Season 1 of TNG is ten times better than Discovery, yes even Angel One!

HubcapDave

What do you perceive as disregarding canon/insulting intelligence? I love to shoot these things down!

If you couldn’t see the actual Trek, you weren’t looking hard enough!

slider

So could you tell me where the Star Trek is?

Jonboc

Well said…I’m no fan of TNG, I found it strayed further from the foundation of TOS, in terms of storytelling and imagination, more so than I ever cared to witness. But it had its moments. The pieces were in place, and when arranged properly they succeeded in delivering some great television and good Star Trek. Discovery is an abysmal mess of a train wreck. On all counts.

DeanH

Jonboc, as a non fan of Discovery and TNG, what Star Trek series or shows did you like? I assume you liked TOS shows 1-50 (with the exception of 5 or 6 shows, most of the last 29 were pretty brutal.) but considering there are about 800 total hours to choose from, what did you actually like or are you even a fan of Star Trek after TOS?

Jonboc

Hi DeanH, Interesting questions to ponder. Let’s see if I can cobble together something resembling an answer. Sorry it’s so long-winded. I am a fan of TOS, was part of the feverish beginnings back in the 70’s….when the original series and animated series were the only Star Trek and TOS was in heavy syndication, everywhere on the planet. (sadly, no video at that time…just photo novels to relive the adventures when the well went dry) There were no other interpretations. Loved them both. Love the formula for TOS…basically it was, as Gene pitched it, Wagon Train to the stars. Each planet a new story. It was intelligent storytelling, laced with colorful characters that were grounded in reality. The series put those likable and real characters into clever, imaginative and creative situations that were dangerous and fun. Encountering the unknown was truly a weekly adventure…there was action, exploration, discovery, romance and humor…colorful settings that set fire to many a kid’s imagination. There was no tech-jibber jabber. The tech was on screen, so it worked…we didn’t need to know how. It’s the future. The characters were fun and as you grew older, and got past the fantastic colors and scary aliens you begin to appreciate it on another level entirely…the social analogies weren’t hitting you over the head every episode (Just Let That Be Your Last Battlefield lol) , but a comment here, a reaction there…we got the idea. The series didn’t have to be pretentious. With the exception of Alternative Factor, Is There in Truth No Beauty and Mark of Gideon, I really enjoy all 3 seasons. Fast forward to the TOS movies….I’ve enjoyed them each on their own merits and have trouble ranking them, as what I like and dislike varies, movie to movie. Fast forward to TNG. I have… Read more »

Tiger2

This post proves, once again, that DIS isn’t automatically loved just because you are a TOS fan. Or hated because you are a TNG fan. I can count at least a half a dozen people here who say they love or grew up with TOS but hate DIS. And that there are still TOS fans who really just love TOS lol.

And that’s OK, people should like what they like, hate what they hate. It’s all just entertainment and very subjective, none of it matters at the end of the day.

My only point is that you can’t label who likes what based off their favorite show. Everyone just have their own interest for whatever reason. I just get tired of hearing its ‘so and so fans’ who don’t like DIS when as shown there isn’t any pattern of who hate or love the show or ANY show for that matter.

And lastly they are simply judging it as they judge EVERY show that came before it. It’s not being treated any differently than the rest. It’s simply the most current show on right now so obviously it’s a big focus. But it’s not a conspiracy that some hate it as they hated other shows.

DeanH

Thanks for the perspective and obviously like many of us, you are very fond of TOS and what it represented. And even though I quite enjoyed a lot of what Star Trek eventually became (even including much of Discovery) I know that the subsequent series that followed have never ever quite recaptured everything TOS was. One thing I did start to watch a couple of years ago was both Star Trek Continues and Star Trek New Voyages. Both productions are fan fiction but they are made with care by passionate fans of TOS and some of the episodes are written by familiar names such as DC Fontana and David Gerold. I know it is not quite the same but for those fans who still long for TOS and have not yet checked out these stories, you may want to do so on Youtube.

slider

Insulting the intelligence of fans seems to be fashionable at the moment as you can see from the people who like this show.

Will

So the bonus features did more than the show did?

Darwolf

First season makes me want to see less.

Afterburn

Then don’t watch, and forget about it, like any reasonable indivisual would do with something they don’t enjoy. But you can’t do that will you?

I remember the time I watched Family Guy, hated it, and ranted on FG fan sites and social media for over a year..

Oh wait, no i didn’t. SMDH.

ML31

Yeah, Darwolf. Just stop being a Star Trek fan if you don’t like it. In addition if you end up not liking the Picard show, or the upcoming animated show or the Starfleet Academy show… Abandon being a fan completely if you don’t like every single iteration of Trek that comes out.

In fact, if your favorite team has a bad season, just stop being a fan of them, too.

kmart

And if the air smells bad, he can just stop breathing it, right? Sheesh!

DeanH

Haha, okay ML31 that was pretty funny and as someone who likes Disco, I laughed out loud when I read the post but yeah I guess you do need to ease up on the burn because even the guys who hate Discovery have an opinion often times (not always) worthwhile reading. Btw the sports analogy is perfect.

Tiger2

Yes, I too get so sick of hearing ‘if you don’t like it, stop watching’ motto. People don’t seem to realize that’s not how a fandom works. Unless you are outright boycotting something then of course people will be watching, because that’s what FANS do. Star Trek is not a product, its a brand and I think some people don’t understand the difference. But DIS is just not a show, it’s just one piece of an expansive universe people have been invested in for decades. And because of that you’re going to always stick with the brand if you are a big enough fan just like sports teams are brands.

And I also hate that motto because its hypocritical. The SAME people who say ‘well you should stop watching’ are the same people who admit to watching all the other shows they branded as bad early on and yet watched every episode so why didn’t they follow their own advice then at the time?

Because its not realistic. Of course people will watch regardless if its good or bad because that’s how fandom works. And honestly its better they are paying and watching because we know there are tons of fans NOT watching this show just based on the tiny AA subscriptions thus far. And I don’t want this show to be another Enterprise and cancelled by its third or fourth season, so its best they keep watching for now at least.

Mark Calcagno

I don’t agree with this argument at all.

First of all, the straw man argument in your second paragraph doesn’t apply to everyone, or even most people. There are a TON of Marvel fans, but they didn’t show up for Iron Fist or Luke Cage. Just using myself as an example, I’m a huge Batman fan, but I didn’t like Gotham, so I stopped watching it half way through season 1. It wasn’t worth my time, and I never complained about it on DC sites. And I’m a Marvel fan who doesn’t watch every show and movie just because it has the brand name. Casual fans are way more numerous than you may think.

People sticking with brands no matter what is exactly how things stay the same. Vote with your wallet and things will change. Brands don’t care if you like them or not. If they’re making money, they will keep doing what they’re doing. You may not like Disco, but if you’re paying for it, or even pirating it, they know there’s interest and will keep making the show the same way they were before.

Tiger2

I didn’t say EVERYONE watches or cares about every show, I’m only saying I can’t blame the fans who do want to give every show a chance because they are simply fans.

Obviously not every Star Trek fan watches every show or film, the ratings and box office tells us that. I’m only saying telling people who do have a general interest they should stop watching something because they don’t love it from the outset is a misnomer. Plenty of fans watch things they don’t love for no other reason they want to know everything that is happening in that universe. Certainly not all but some, right?

And the reality is probably the overwhelming majority of fans ISN’T watching the show for whatever reason and are voting with their wallets now. But for the ones who want to give it a chance but currently hate it are the same people who probably hated either TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT and yet watched EVERY episode of those too lol. For the record I don’t get that either but plenty do, including people here who claim they hated every part of a show but watched 100+ episodes of it and probably countless times. One posted who use to come here talk about TNG as if it was the devil and yet managed to watch all 176 episodes of it like he was forced at gun point or something.

But that’s how branding works. Ask Star Wars fans. Some hasn’t liked a single thing since the OT and yet shows up for every film regardless for the last 30 years.

DIS is is the first show in over a decade and just 15 episodes in. It’s human nature to watch even if you’re not overly fond of it now.

Mark Calcagno

That was a bit of a slippery slope. Afterburn never said to abandon Star Trek, just stop watching a show that Darwolf doesn’t like. That makes sense to me.

I hate The Walking Dead; I think it’s a terrible show. So when I stopped liking it, I stepped away, and never talked about it online until now for this example. I for sure didn’t go to TWD news sites and complained. That’s a waste of energy and only serves to rile up fans of the show that are completely justified in liking it. Fans hear the criticism, trust me. We don’t need to hear more.

ML31

Bad example, Mark Calcagno. Star Trek, as Tiger2 so aptly pointed out, is a brand. TWD while it spawned a spinoff show, is hardly in that category at this point. You want to compare it to something? Compare Trek to the MCU or Star Wars. Would you tell someone who is a fan of Marvel to stop watching the movies or shows because they made a bad movie? They are fans. They are going to absorb whatever they can get their hands on, good or not. It’s what fans do. Just like fans still watch their teams play when they suck. It’s what fans do and the franchises would be unable to exist without their fans. Fans want their franchises to be good. And if they are not good they want them to get better.

Mark Calcagno

As a Star Wars fan, because I didn’t like Rogue One and Episode VIII, I didn’t see Solo, and I won’t be watching Episode IX. I respond with my wallet, not by calling for JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy to be fired.

You and I don’t agree about Disco, based on our post history, but I enjoy disagreeing with you. I’m not referring to you in my post because you and Tiger2 bring a lot of thought into this series, and I’m sorry you don’t like it like I do.

What concerns me is when people say Senequa and the writers should be fired because of what they’re doing to the franchise. That’s not criticism, that’s calling for people to be fired and replaced because canon isn’t being adhered to, which is ridiculous. They don’t hear online criticisms, they hear dollar signs, and when anyone pays to watch the show, just to complain about it here, they’re not going to change, they’re going to laugh.

ML31

From your description, and this is not a shot at you, I would classify you as more of a casual fan. Those are the ones who like the brand but will not ingest what they can get their hands on. They are also the fans of the ball club who only come to games or watch on TV when the team is good. Those kinds of fans do indeed outnumber the “hard core” fans. And they are the ones the entertainment manufacturers reach out to. The hard core fans will come out win or lose. Good or bad. When it comes to Trek, I fall into that category. I will watch because I’m a fan. If it’s bad, I will watch and complain that it is bad, then hope it gets better later. Why? Because I’m a fan. It’s what we do. Casual people just don’t care about the brands as much. Regarding Senequa… Personally I have claimed that she is probably just miscast in the role. Probably because I’ve never seen her in anything else. Yeoh I KNOW is miscast. She can shine in the right role. But Georgeau is not the right one for her. Even evil Georgeau is not right for her. She feels like she is forcing it. It could be due to the weak scripts and uninspiring plotting. That makes every actor’s job tougher. BTW… Calling for writers to be fired because they are writing bad scripts is a lot different from calling for them to be fired because they didn’t adhere to canon. If the script and stories were good or even decent, canon inconsistencies just don’t stick out as much. Good talking with you.

Mark Calcagno

It is good talking with you! And you’re right, I am more of a casual fan now! I think it happened when the 2009 movie came out. I either had to come to peace with it or rally against it, as it wasn’t my Star Trek, and instead I made peace. Star Trek is about stories, and I personally like Disco’s.

As for the miscasting, I agree with you again: Yeoh was someone I expected more from. And acting Vulcan is so hard, I feel like Nimoy defined the roll and it’s hard to divert from him without coming off as an a-hole. Here’s hoping the new Spock can do it well.

Tiger2

Yes it sounds like you are more of a casual fan where as me and ML31 are really talking about hardcore fans. Most people on this site for instance sounds like hardcore fans. Not everyone, but it sounds like most. Or at least people who has been watching it for decades and generally watched all of it even if they like it by varying degrees.

I definitely am a hardcore fan so I watch everything. The only show I stopped watching was Enterprise because I truly thought it was that bad and bland. I did eventually go back to it but it was years after it was cancelled. So even me there is a limit lol. And I think even then I was just a bit tired out after watching 15+ straight years of Star Trek.

But I can’t see myself NOT watching something unless its just brutally bad and even then I will probably watch at least 1-2 seasons of it before I quit like I did with ENT.

I have my issues with DIS like others but its not THAT bad for me. As I have said many times, while I don’t think I loved any episodes I didn’t hate any either. It’s more in the meh but OK region so far. Nothing I thought I have to shout from the roof tops about but nothing cringe worthy either IMO. If it got to that level of bad and stayed there then I would probably not watch it. Where its at now I would at least tune in for a few seasons. And only being 13 episodes helps too.

Mark Calcagno

That makes sense, and why I name dropped you in my response to ML31. Yes, you’re hardcore, but you also articulate your thoughts in a way where I can understand where you’re coming from, despite me disagreeing with the points you make. I hope I come off the same way.

Tiger2

Yeah no worries. Honestly I don’t have an issue with people’s opinions. Love, hate, I just come to have a conversation. Of course I want you to understand what I’m saying but you can still disagree obviously.

People who are shouting ‘if you hate it, then don’t watch’ aren’t really wrong. If you truly just hate it, its weird to keep watching. But with fandom it’s just more complex. People use a show like the Orville as an example of something they hated after watching and no longer watch. But that’s not a valid example because the Orville isn’t part of an expansive universe for 50 years. Nor does that show have an impact on other shows since it’s the only one. The Orville IS just a product, so that’s easy to ignore.

MCU is the opposite. Its SO MUCH on some people literally just can’t watch it all. But you have tons of options at least. DIS is the only Trek on at the moment so fans will tune in. But maybe when the Picard show come on and its good then those people will drop DIS and just focus on that. Or to get the fans who isn’t watching DIS now, which my guess is the real reason its coming.

But I just don’t understand why people can’t just accept other opinions, even if it’s negative. As long they aren’t attacking others or trolling then their opinions are theirs. But some people really do take these things to heart, even though they are super critical themselves. They just get bothered when its something they personally like then they don’t want to hear it lol, but have no issues slagging things off they hate, like the Orville. I see it here and other places constantly. It’s very strange to me.

DeanH

Good thing many others want to see more!!! That is why it is trending so high on itunes this month and the reason why CBS is committing so much funds to producing Short Treks, Disco Season 2, Picard and even more Star Trek.

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The Orville is probably better then.

albatrosity

So you can now pre-order the Disco Enterprise on Eaglemoss, and just based on the views of it I can’t say I’m that into the design. It’s a little chunky in places, especially the nacelles which I find too wide. I also don’t like the font they used for the saucer like at all, not majestic enough. I was actually looking forward to getting the model but since it’s the $75 XL edition I don’t think I’ll be plopping down for it anytime soon. I think it’ll look better on screen than as a model, though.

Mark Calcagno

There’s a version that’ll be half the price, a little smaller, and coming out in January or February if that entices you at all. Wouldn’t be surprised if STO adds it soon, then you can print one for $20.

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Now we can see this travesty…on blu-ray! Yay!

DeanH

Whether fans love or hate Discovery (most seem to be in between) I really like this story has generated almost 200 comments and some thoughtful discussion. Yeah there are the haters that post simplistic disdain for the show but we can dismiss those comments and learn from those who have legit complaints about Disco. In the end, what is encouraging is that some of those legit critiques do seem to resonate with the producers of the show and that bodes well for season 2.

Danpaine

Agreed, Dean. It speaks to the passion of the fanbase, no matter if they’re positive or negative or a mix of both. I have high hopes season 2 will vastly improve upon season one. We’ll see soon enough.

boborci

Finally watched first three episodes!

Dggjag

What did you think? I enjoy the show. It’s got many flaws but I am a fan.

Thomas W.

I didn’t like the first season because of the poor picture quality. Now that I’ve watched a few episodes on blu-ray I have to admit that the show is visually much more impressive.

I watched the blu-rays with an UHD-BD player and on an 65″ UHD-TV. The upscaling is fantastic, nearly true 4K. The picture is so much clearer and more colorful. Unfortunately, in many scenes the quality suffers from picture noise; the picture is very grainy. But in most scenes you will get a true cinematic (U)HD feeling with the best picture quality of all Star Trek series, even better than most of the older movies. Also the VFX are much more impressive and realistic. I thought they looked cheap and unreal when streaming the show.

FERNANDO TREKKER

Lucky you, guys. Here in Brazil we only had a DVD launch. The anacronics DVDs of the 2000’s. Sad, nothing of blu-rays…

Dggjag

I bought the last copy at my local Walmart this morning for 35 dollars. The picture quality is good but I now realize that most of the picture errors, that I had erroneously contributed to streaming, are in fact production errors. Still worth the money in my opinion.

kmart

Details, if you could. Are you talking about image issues with the live-action or the visual effects or both?

Dggjag

Both. Live action is brighter but still grainy at times. I think that was a deliberate choice. The space FX are at times blurry. Especially during action scenes. For instance the stars will smear together during a battle. Just minor things but noticeable.