On Thursday the second season of Star Trek: Discovery wraps up with “Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2.” All season long things have been building up to what has been described as a game-changing finale. The showrunners have promised that the finale will answer key questions fans have about the show. To get ready for what is coming, TrekMovie’s editors have put together some of the questions we have going in.
SPOILER WARNING: the following will include informed speculation as well as discuss elements of the season finale trailer.
Where and when is Star Trek: Discovery headed?
Part one of “Such Sweet Sorrow” set up the plan for Michael Burnham to use a time-traveling Red Angel suit to travel into the future, taking the USS Discovery with her. The preview for part two shows Burnham creating a wormhole and going through it, indicating some level of success with this plan. Her goal is to jump forward in time 950 years to the tech-free planet of Terralysium (seen in “New Eden”), which is where her mother has set up camp. However, Michael has never used the Red Angel tech before and the preview shows her opening the wormhole in the middle of a pitched battle. Nailing an exact time and place may not work out as planned; as Tyler noted, she could end up anywhere, perhaps only 500 years into the future (which is where the modified squid probe came back from in “Light and Shadows”). Going back in time shouldn’t be discounted either. Plus, it’s a big galaxy with four whole quadrants.
Is Discovery headed back to Terralysium?
If they go, are they coming back?
It was established that time crystal they are using will be burned out on the journey, so this will be a one-way trip. Where and when they are going is especially important if we assume the jump is not just to keep the sphere data away from Control, but to solve an issue for the show itself.
The producers and cast of Star Trek: Discovery have often talked about how the second season will bring the show into sync with Star Trek canon. Answers have been promised to questions about why there was never a mention of Michael Burnham as Spock’s sister and especially why the spore drive technology was never heard of before, a technology that would have been of particular use to Captain Janeway. Jumping the ship and the show far into the future could provide the answer to these questions. If Michael was no longer around, there would be no need for Spock to talk about her (although it’s not like he was very chatty about his family anyway). And without Stamets and his tardigrade-infused blood, it’s possible that the spore drive died when it, he, and all his research left the 23rd century.
Where and when the Discovery goes could reveal the new setting for the third season and possibly for the rest of the series. But once the Discovery is safely away from Control, there is no reason the crew wouldn’t try to find a way to return home using some other means of time travel. Based on Star Trek canon, time travel will become much more common in future centuries, but there may be story-related reasons to keep Michael and her friends from having the journey home be their number one priority. (Plus there’s a risk of following too closely in Voyager‘s footsteps by featuring a crew whose number one goal is to get themselves home, especially if it takes a whole season or more to do so.)
The other end of this wormhole could be the new home for Star Trek: Discovery
Will Discovery’s time in the 23rd century be retconned?
The jump to the future should be enough for the canon sync with a few handwaves, but the show could take it a step further and find some way for Michael to go back in time and change her history, possibly saving her parents from the Klingon attack on Doctari Prime so she never went to live on Vulcan. This change in the timeline could also have the butterfly effect of Stamets never developing the spore drive tech. While completely turning all of the first two seasons of Star Trek: Discovery into a sort of pocket universe (à la “Yesterday’s Enterprise”) would solve the sync issue, that plan could backfire. It might be seen as an over-correction and even a betrayal to fans who have supported the show by attempting to placate canon purist critics who may never embrace Discovery anyway, even if they redesigned the ships, uniforms, and tech to perfectly match the 1960s aesthetic.
Changing the events of the Klingon attack on Doctari Prime could change the fate of Michael Burnham and Discovery
Who ends up on the Disco?
Last week we saw Tilly, Stamets, Saru, Reno, Nilsson, Detmer, Owosekun, Nhan, Rhys, Bryce, Osnullus, and Spock volunteer to stay with Burnham on the Discovery. While that is enough to fill out a bridge crew, it doesn’t leave much for running a ship with a regular complement of 136, so it’s possible there are additional personnel aboard as a skeleton crew.
There is also an issue with Spock, as we know that he has to end up back on the Enterprise. The episode preview may provide a clue: We see Spock exit the Discovery in a shuttle to escort Michael in the Red Angel suit, so he may end up having to return to the Enterprise due to events of the battle.
It’s also not clear where Dr. Culber is, but he indicated he was transferring to the USS Enterprise, so it’s possible he isn’t making the trip. Also aboard the Enterprise are Tyler and Admiral Cornwell, while, curiously, Po and Georgiou are back on the USS Discovery. Keeping track of who ends up where is important if we are assuming the ship and show are jumping to a new time and place, because whoever ends up on the Discovery will make up the core of characters in season three.
Is this (minus Spock) the cast for season three?
How does Georgiou’s final spot impact the Section 31 show?
Where Georgiou ends up is of particular interest. It has already been revealed that Michelle Yeoh’s former-Terran-Emperor-turned-Section-31-agent will appear in the third season of Discovery, which could explain why she is on board the Discovery even in the trailer for part two of the finale. But Yeoh has also signed on to head a new Section 31 series, which is planned to go into production after the third season of Discovery wraps next year. If Discovery is headed into the far future, does it make sense to also have a Section 31 show set in that same future? From a logistical standpoint, they have built a number of Section 31 sets, so these would be left behind on the other side of the wormhole. In theory, Georgiou could end up on a Section 31 ship during the battle, but if so, would she follow the Discovery into the future? Maybe. Georgiou could also find some way to return to the 23rd century to pick things up with Section 31. This opens up another option: The third season of Discovery could be set in multiple eras.
Georgiou on the Disco during the finale, will she stay all the way through?
Is Sarek coming back?
It is not uncommon in Star Trek to have the heroes facing off against a powerful enemy alone, and we know that Control had infiltrated Starfleet subspace communications to prevent any calls for reinforcements. Michael’s adoptive father Sarek showed up halfway through that episode because he could track her using his special katric link. After he and Amanda said their goodbyes, they left before the battle with the Section 31 fleet started. Since Sarek is a high-level ambassador for the Federation and now knows exactly where this battle is going to take place, is he going to take his shuttle to Earth or any other Starfleet hubs to gather some reinforcements? If he doesn’t, he very well may be the worst dad ever.
Sarek’s shuttle left the Disco before the Section 31 fleet arrived, but will he come back with help?
What is Tyler up to?
During the finale, one person missing from Michael’s loyal group of volunteers was Tyler, who told her he had to be elsewhere to ensure something like the AI Control will never happen again. This sounds like he’s headed for a confrontation with his former Section 31 boss Leland, who has been taken over by Control. But Tyler also told Pike he needed to leave even before Leland’s fleet showed up, so where exactly did he go? The main Section 31 base which originally housed Control was destroyed, so wiping out the Section 31 fleet should finish it off. There may be some backup archive somewhere that Tyler needs to get rid of, or perhaps he went to find some help for the outnumbered heroes, with the most likely source being L’Rell and the Klingon Empire. Tyler’s final disposition will also be important as he is another likely candidate to join Georgiou in her coming Section 31 adventures.
In Part 1, Tyler told Pike he has to go somewhere, but where?
Are there two more signals and how do they tie into Red Angel?
The central mystery established in the season opener was the seven red burst signals and the appearances of the Red Angel. It has been established that the Red Angel was, in fact, Michael Burnham’s mother Gabrielle, traveling back in time from 950 years in the future. However, she was entirely unaware of the seven bursts. In part one of the finale, it was speculated that Michael Burnham herself was causing the bursts from some point in the future. We might see this confirmed in the finale. Each red burst has led the Discovery to another step towards completing its mission to take on Control, with the fifth one showing up over Xahea. That leaves two more bursts to go. Perhaps we will see Burnham as the source of these bursts and get more of an explanation behind her motivation and means of creating them.
As of the first part of the finale, Red Bursts had appeared at five different locations
What’s up with Control?
Perhaps the most opaque element of the second season is Control, the main antagonist. This Section 31 program was used to assess threats to the Federation, but at some point, it decided to go rogue and kill its masters with the grand plan of wiping out all sentient life. A number of things about Control are unclear including: when it went bad, is it currently conscious? and why does it need the sphere data to complete its planned genocide? There has also been speculation that Control could tie into some other elements of Trek canon, like V’Ger or the Borg. Hopefully, the finale will add an element of depth and maybe even some nuance to this key ingredient of the season.
Control has infected Leland, maybe he will give us some answers
Does any of this tie into “Calypso” or “The Escape Artist”?
Before season two started in January, CBS All Access debuted four short films tied into Discovery, starting last fall. We have already seen the direct tie to two of these with “The Brightest Star” as a sort of origin story/prequel to the second season episode “The Sound of Thunder,” and the character of Po from “Runaway” returning for the season finale. There were two other Short Treks episodes. The final one (“The Escape Artist”) featuring Harry Mudd probably has no connection to season two. However, “Calypso,” written by Michael Chabon, could be a different story. That mini-episode featured the USS Discovery alone in space in the 33rd century, with an AI named Zora as its sole resident. The ship was visited by Craft, who was escaping a war with the V’draysh. Could the abandoned ship be the result of the crew of the Discovery leaving after successfully moving the ship and the sphere data away from Control? Could Zora herself be an evolution of the ship’s computer and the sphere data? And – as indicated by Michael Chabon – could the V’draysh be what is left of the Federation? It’s all very intriguing, but perhaps these questions may be more for season three.
Has season two been an origin story for Zora?
Is Gabrielle Burnham alive?
In “Perpetual Infinity,” Michael’s mother was revealed as the Red Angel, who was snapped back into the future at the end of the episode although she was not in her suit at the time. She indicated to her daughter that she would see her again, so perhaps the suit isn’t needed to survive travel through a wormhole, as implausible as that may seem. Michael’s goal is to take herself and the Discovery to where Dr. Burnham has been hiding out in the future on Terralysium, which could give her a role to play in the finale. And while it was surmised that Dr. Burnham’s suit was destroyed, this was never confirmed, so it’s possible she could pop back to the 23rd century again.
Is this the last we will see of Michael’s mom?
What will the time crystal do to Reno?
At the end of the first part of “Such Sweet Sorrow,” engineer Jett Reno volunteered to expose herself to the radiation from the time crystal in order to get it powered up in time for the big battle, even though she knew that the visions of the future would be overwhelming as well as dangerous, and potentially lethal. So there is an open question as to whether Reno will even survive the ordeal. Tig Notaro’s Reno has been a breakout character this season, so it would not be a surprise if they find a way to keep her around. However, the ordeal with the time crystal is probably something that will have consequences. Will Reno be imbued with knowledge of the future? Will she go a bit crazy? Or is her acerbic wit enough to protect her from all of that?
Reno faces her fate with the time crystal; will she return unscathed?
What about the situation on Kaminar?
This season’s “The Sound of Thunder” showed the USS Discovery crew spark a revolution on Saru’s home planet of Kaminar. The Kelpiens were freed of their fear and their threat ganglia and the “Great Balance” mythology imposed by the Ba’ul was exposed as a lie. With the Kelpiens revealed to be the true dominant predators, the future of the planet was left uncertain. While the USS Discovery hung around Kaminar for a couple of episodes, there has been no update how things have progressed after Saru’s vahar’ai revolution and if they have found a new peace or returned to their old ways. Speaking to TrekMovie last month, Saru actor Doug Jones said the show would “circle back for a second to find out what happened there,” but time is running out.
Kaminar was left to pick up the pieces, hopefully the Federation is helping out.
Who will be captain of Discovery?
After Captain Lorca broke bad in the Mirror Universe, Saru stepped in as acting captain, but the first season ended with an unknown captain assigned to take over. We never met that captain, who was waiting on Vulcan, since Captain Pike dropped in to take command for his red signals mission. In part one of the finale he relinquished command, returning it to Commander Saru. There was a brief moment where it appeared Pike might make Saru the official captain, but Saru demurred for the moment. This may have been a bit short-sighted as the plan calls for him to jump the ship into the future, removing him from his chain of command. So, if all continues as planned, Saru would be the de facto captain, even if only “acting.”
But as they have left it an open question. It is always possible that events lead to Commander Burnham being made captain. There are some other possibilities as well. First there is Georgiou, who already holds the rank of captain. Also, it seemed curious that Admiral Cornwell was aboard the USS Enterprise in the first part of the finale as Number One was clearly capable of commanding the ship in Pike’s absence. Her being on board didn’t seem necessary, but it’s possible she ends up on the Disco before it enters that black hole. Or, at the very least, she can use her powers as an admiral to settle the issue of Discovery’s command. And don’t count out Number One as a long shot.
Saru will command the Discovery during the finale, but is it his job to keep?
Will Spock shave?
The second season of Discovery has generated a lot of buzz, starting before it even aired. And perhaps the most buzzworthy element of the season was the introduction of Spock, with much of the early discussion about the character focused on the long hair and beard seen in the first publicity images. Discussion of “hipster Spock” dominated some of the early coverage of the show and more throughout the season. Even after he joined the Discovery crew in their mission, he never returned to regulation uniform. The second season has been touted as part of Spock’s origin story, with his bearded look explained as a specific choice to show his state of mind. From what can be seen in the season finale preview, Spock will be busy helping Michael. While a leaked photo may have already answered this question, we are still curious if Spock will find the time to shave the beard and present himself in the classic blue Enterprise uniform, as the Great Bird intended.
Spock has his hands full in the finale, will there be time to stop by the barber?
Any more questions?
Those are the things that have us at TrekMovie curious. Any other burning questions on your mind? Sound off in the comments below.
Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access. It airs in Canada on Space and streams on CraveTV. It is available on Netflix everywhere else.
I believe Discovery will go to the future in the season finale. It will stay in the future in the next season. It ties into Calypso perfectly. Maybe the Federation doesn’t exist in the future. I don’t think a retcon will happen. Anything is possible.
With all the justified outcry for a Pike series, I’m still a fan of Discovery. Can’t wait to see it Thursday
A Pike series is possible. Maybe CBS will announce a Captain Pike show at the Las Vegas Star Trek Convention this year. Last year, they confirmed the Picard show at that convention.
One can hope….
Exactly; remember all the rumors of Sir Pat meeting with the showrunners. Then the show was confirmed.
I’ve said this before, but you do NOT hire the likes of Anson Mount and Rebecca Romijn and carefully Search for Spock, to find him in Ethan Peck, only to abandon them all at the end of one season. Nor do you build a complete Enterprise bridge set and build[?] redress[?] other sets to look like the classic Enterprise.
So I feel pretty confident there will be a “Pike’s Enterprise” show, whatever its title. I hope they are able to start it soon, so they can put it up while Disco is filming, but I guess it’s more likely to be “a long road, getting from” here to there, LOL.
It really could be years for a show to happen, especially if the Section 31 show happens and not start until after DIS third season. And its still a big possibility they may just have them be part of that show. Its weird no one is considering this option. Its not exactly a precedent anymore to see Starfleet and Section 31 working together now.
They have a good leg up on starting a Pike show, though. They already have the Bridge set, costumes, props, and CGI Enterprise available. I think mid-2020 wouldn’t be unreasonable as a debut time.
They also have booked a soundstage at Pinewood Studios Toronto which is pretty much full up…
So, it looks like CBS gave them permission to do some kind of trial run or back-door pilot within the 2-part Discovery season finale.
Thorny the biggest question is who would lead the writing room and where to find the writers.
Kurtzman has said that the hold up on greenlighting the section 31 show with Yeoh has been Kim and Lippoldt’s prior commitment to write on Discovery season 3.
Without a script for the pilot, S31 won’t be greenlit.
With changes in showrunners for Discovery, and writers moving over to create the Picard show, it’s not clear who would create the pitch premise for Pike’s Enterprise.
Unless, with Picard’s initial 10 scripts in the can, writers from that show will move over to Pike’s Enterprise.
I really hope this is the case!!
True. All that fine work already done on sets and characters will pay out … maybe as a series, maybe as a tv movie? However, definitively want more of Pikes Enterprise.
Could be. I’m definitely more open to thinking this might be a good idea than I was even a week ago. We’ll see.
Rent is being paid on new standing sets in Toronto. Principles are cast. I would not be surprised if we hear about a Pike show VERY soon after the Discovery season 2 finale… not excluding the possibility that the teaser at the end of the episode is a preview of the new series.
I’m greedy. I want both!
Me too. I’m not against a Section 31 series, or a Starfleet Academy series and of course a Pike-Enterprise series.
I am open to all types, as long as one isn’t sacrificed in favour of the other.
I agree with that. I was initially very opposed to a section 31 show, but they’ve put an interesting twist on it. If Ash Tyler tries to prevent section 31 going crazy bad then we may get some fun drama. I guess time will tell!
I agree Recursion King.
The Relaunch S31 books were interesting because they followed Bashir’s efforts, and eventually Data’s, to expose S31, including how they eventually realized that the 200 year old Control/Uraei threat assessment had been working unmonitored and outside Federation laws and values….but also with a long term problem of complicit admirals or Starfleet just looking the other way.
And a key element of that 200 year history was that every time those with integrity in Starfleet thought they’d eliminated the problem, it just went further underground and resurfaced later.
If Tyler and Georgiou, have to work in the grey areas to track down and mitigate Uraei’s attempts to reassert power, it could be a great longterm mission, consistent with Trek values, but reaching into the underbelly of 23rd Century society – – going places that Starfleet would not.
I’ve said for weeks there was no reason they could not do both. Even though one seems to be more desired than the other.
What about Admiral Cornwell?
I really hope she will be on season three of Discovery. She is a VERY popular character. I, for one, love her. Ms. Brook said to me at DragonCon that she is so happy women over 50 in the film industry are “no longer ‘taken out and shot’.” As a woman in that demographic, I am very happy to see a woman of my years represented! We make up a goodly percentage of Trek fandom.
I like her, though some dicey things have been done with the character.
I think that this could work Michael Hall.
The 200 year story of Uraei/Control is one in which many admirals have been sucked into accepting morally dubious choices as the only option to preserve the Federation.
If Cornwell – – and Sarek for that matter – – are shown to understand this, and regret it, they would be all the more compelling as they support Pike upholding Federation values.
Cornwell is very popular? She’s okay, but her willingness to commit genocide makes her an ugly character going forward. And she had an annoying tendency to appear out of nowhere (so sudden that many hear wondered if she was really Georgiou in disguise) and disappear again equally mysteriously. If she stays a player, she should be on the Section 31 show with Georgiou.
I had never considered that V’draysh, if pronounced a certain way, sounds like Federation. That would be interesting.
Me either and it’s true!
Holy shee, Mark! A great conclusion, but, wow, sad to think they were killing folks like “Craft”.
I am utterly confused about the “red bursts.”
In episode 1, we established that there were 7, encircling the galaxy more or less (let’s not worry about the issue of what it means for 7 things to appear “simultaneously” at distances of 100,000 LY from one another).
Since then we’ve seen 5 red bursts at other locations (Kaminar, etc.).
So — wait. When the burst at Kaminar appeared, did one of the ones that encircled the galaxy vanish? Are there now only 2 red bursts hovering hear the periphery of the galaxy, and we’re expecting them to move as well? I don’t remember any lines of dialogue that established this relationship between the initial and later red bursts.
There seems to be some sort of narrative disconnect between the 7 bursts from Episode 1 and the bursts appearing throughout the rest of the season. Anyone else puzzled?
Yeah if there were 7 red bursts they should know where they are but now they are waiting for them to reappear, but in different places? That confuses me too
As far as the distances involved – The Federation uses subspace telescope arrays (such as the argus array in the TNG episode “The Nth Degree), these are capable for sensing and observing the galaxy faster than light would travel. The same goes for a ship’s sensors, you wouldn’t be able to sense anything at warp if your sensors weren’t FTL
I believe they know there are 7 because of Spock and his visions. This is why they know there are 7. They don’t know because they are appearing one by one.
Pike showed them in episode 1
People need to pay more attention. 7 red bursts showed up simultaneously. Then they all vanished before they could get a full lock on them. The only one that remained was the one over the Hiawatha. They have since reappeared one at a time when needed.
If they didn’t have the locations of the original 7 bursts, how could they tell that Spock’s scribbled map corresponded to them? I originally thought that there had been 7 bursts, and the subsequent ones (at the asteroid, Terralysium, and so forth) were in addition to the original 7.
It feels like there’s been a bit of a shift from the beginning of the season, when the sense I got was “these 7 signals showed up and then disappeared, oh, here’s another one” to the second half, when it became “OK, here’s another signal, that makes 4, so there are 3 left to find.”
It feels like an error in plotting. Kinda like in TUC when Uhura says they were carrying equipment to “catalog gaseous anomalies.” It was Excelsior that was doing that, per Capt. Sulu’s opening log!
That has been a head scratcher for me, too. If they saw the 7 that sent them on this merry chase, what are the ones that are appearing AFTER that?
Burnham will cross over into the Star Wars verse and become the last Jedi
She might be more at home on Babylon 5.
Given that wormholes are involved, Stargate Command. ;)
Yasssssss!
lol
Whatever point in time they end up, can they not just go get another time crystal? Looked to me they were a dime a dozen.
Thats kind of the problem with the ‘stuck in time’ plot line. This is Star Trek, we already know they know how to time travel. And I imagine if you are going centuries into the future, it would be even easier ways to help you get back home, especially since its been locked in canon they have things like basically time police to keep you in the timeline you belong in so not to alter the rest of it.
Unless they’re going full retcon ie to stop control they have to go back to the beginning and stop Burnham’s parents from dying. They wouldn’t so be much stuck in time as displaced, artefacts from a forgotten timeline if you will with nowhere to go back to.
Yeah that would be different. I mean if they go centuries into the future and changed nothing.
Personally I’m hoping that they don’t go the pocket universe reset angle but it would explain why they’re not trying to get back. The other options would be that they are given solid reasons by the the future time cops as to why they have to stay where they are or they are trying to get back but have arrived in a post federation time period in which time travelling is no longer easy.
I agree. I don’t want anything reset either. It would say the last two seasons have basically been all for nothing (and I think anger its actual fans who does like the story line). Same reason why I never wanted the Kelvin movies reset.
Even though I think its VERY unnecessary, going to the future angle is definitely the most appealing and be a lot of fun. But yes, they will have to come up with some excuse why they can’t get back at all? And if Section 31 can build time suits in the 23rd century, I kind of assume centuries later they would have perfected time travel as Daniels proves. But yes maybe it will be a post Federation timeline or things were changed
I’ve said this a billion times. If time travel used as a dramatic narrative then control of that time travel cannot be in the hands of the characters. Some sort of rule of situation must prevent them from just using it to “fix” everything. Again, it’s why Back to the Future works but a concept like the Nexus doesn’t.
Hey, there are Guardians and Nexus floating around out there, too. Time travel in Trek seems about as easy as hopping on a skateboard…
And we’ve seen in Voyager that Starfleet will have Timeships and temporal transporters in the 29th century. Not to mention Daniels from the 31st.
They could get another one and be like Doctor Who.
Discovery vanishing into the future would not be a reason for why Starfleet does not mass-produce spore drives. They have the blueprints to create more drivers and they know all they need is a Tardigrade and willing human subjects with which to infuse with the creature’s DNA.
What stops them from doing it is the laws against altering the genetic manipulation of human DNA (presumably also applicable to non-Earthling lifeforms from UFP worlds).
When Stamets injected himself with the Tardigrade DNA he was breaking the law, no differently than when Bashir’s parents altered his DNA when he was a child. He was merely not punished for it.
His vanishing into the future would not prevent Starfleet from creating more spore drives were they inclined to circumvent or downright abolish the laws against human augmentation.
Maybe, unless the research wasn’t shared.
Yes, Marc, I had the impression it was classified; remember the Section 31 implications in the first episode? It was also considered experimental enough that they only built two ships capable of using it.
I believe it was in Choose Your Pain from season 1 that Cornwell stated that Starfleet was searching for Tardigrades and building more spore drives.
There is more than enough that Cornwell and Pike could determine it is too dicey to allow further experimentation with the Spore Drive and have any further projects stopped, just like transwarp drive will be in another 30 years.
1) dead people from our universe can slip in and cause ecological harm to the mycelial network.
2) anyone wanting to turn spore tech into a super power source for their palace ship threatens all of existence.
3) turns you into goo.
4) too easy to violate the temporal laws
5) requires DNA manipulation of a human, and then turning that human basically into a piece of enslaved propulsion hardware — or requires the torture and enslavement of giant teddy bear tardigrades.
agree. I don’t see anyway the can resolve this issue. Especially with the track record of this writing staff getting itself into and out of trouble.
“When Stamets injected himself with the Tardigrade DNA he was breaking the law, no differently than when Bashir’s parents altered his DNA when he was a child. He was merely not punished for it.”
That’s the key there, Stamets injected himself against regulation, and while he wasn’t punished (as far as we know), the Federation won’t go down that route themselves. Thus, unless they can find a means to navigate the mycelia network that doesn’t involve a tardigrade or eugenics, the tech at this point is DOA.
But remember, on the season 1 episode where they transformed the dwarf planet, Stamets said that the Spore “twig” on Discovery was the last known sample of that type needed for the DASH Drive.
If that truly is the last bit of the correct spores needed, when Discovery goes into the future it won’t matter how many technical specs or tardigrades they have.
No spores = no Jumping…ever
The Short Trek “The Escape Artist” links with this second season in that Mudd created havoc using a time crystal, first time such a thing had been mentioned in Star Trek. So no one got too much surprised when it was necessary to get another one. Including critics.
Maria,
In Season One’s “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad,” Mudd’s time crystal was blue, which makes me wonder if there’s more than one source of time crystals. I don’t think Tevanek, at Boreth, would have let Harry Mudd have one of their green ones! It’s pretty obvious Harry doesn’t have the decency or strength of character required to hold one.
good “point out” Maria. It established the existence of the time crystal. Well done!
Agree it’s a good observation…even if the colour of the 3-space matrix and the technology for intertemporal manipulation was different.
I’d quibble that it brought knowledge and availability of time crystals to the 23rd century as their existence was previously established.
Voyager Endgame brought 25th Century Klingon technology using time crystals into the late 24th Century.
Who is Michael Burnham?
Get me Michael Burnham!
Get me a Michael Burnham type..
Get me a young Michael Burnham.
Who is Michael Burnham?
“One, Michael Burnham needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine. Two, whenever Michael Burnham’s not onscreen, all the other characters should be asking ‘Where’s Michael Burnham?’”
Funny stuff, but did you have Michael Burnham’s permission before posting this?
Some more questions:
1. What was the fate of Burnham’s father?
2. Why can’t the spore drive be used to time jump as it did returning from the mirror universe?
3. Will there ever be a serious treatment of the faith and science topic?
Elrond her mother survived the Klingon attack. Her father is probably dead.
Which is a bit of a retcon. Michael knew exactly what happened to her mom in the s1 finale. She heard it all.
They never said Faith had to do with religious faith. Faith in your friends, family, ideals etc. has been addressed provided specific coordinates for the mirror universe jump. Father probably dead or at least we can assume so.
While true I consider such an explanation to be a cheap cop out. When one claims a “science vs faith” kind of analysis or discussion, that implies something other than faith in family or friends. If that is what was really meant then it is hard to consider it as anything other than an intentional misdirect at best. An outright lie at worst.
Pike has repeatedly said that he trusts that there is a bigger picture where the red bursts are guiding them all. The Red Angel was shown in such a way as to speculate that it might be some form of more advanced being. Both of these deal with the concept of faith in some form of a higher power. Not are religious faiths are based on the concept of one all-powerful God. The way Gods were dealt with on DS9 showed that they were higher beings that were looking out for the Bajorans. However, they weren’t omnipotent, or THE God. (That’s Q)
While it turned out that the Red Angel is the two Burham women, and that the red bursts are probably Michael, it doesn’t take away from the initial faith that placed in them by some (Pike, sometimes Michael and Spock, etc), nor the people who doubted this faith (Tyler, Georgiou, etc). Rather, when it turned out the Red Angel and Red Bursts were humans, it showed that our faith isn’t restricted to worshiping higher beings, but it can be faith in ourselves and each other. It also explored the impact of faith on people who have it naturally, (Pike), people who are forced to rely on faith when all else fails (Michael and Spock), and people who refuse faith (Tyler and 31). not to mention the faith of Saru and his sister in creating global V’har’rai. It ended up showing that the faith in ourselves allows us to be in charge of our own destiny if we are willing to take charge of our lives, and have faith in our friends.
I think this is a great way for Star Trek to explore faith. It isn’t about putting people down compared to higher beings and giving those higher beings all the power. It’s about finding our own power, and if you believe in Divinity, finding Divinity within ourselves. As a scientifically minded Hindu, I think the subtle yet continual dance of logic vs faith has been done quite gracefully.
I have no problem if Discovery remains part of the timeline, because i’ve thoroughly enjoyed both seasons. But I also wouldn’t mind if it became the aforementioned “pocket universe.” Because in the end it’s sci-fi, and who cares? It’s all good.
Afterburn it’s a TV show. Discovery should stay in the timeline.
Thank you. A point people forget…
I don’t think anyone has forgotten that. There are just fans who care about the franchise even if Afterburn does not.
Thanks Trekmovie Editors…
It’s a great round-up of questions and analysis.
I really enjoyed the speculation, and a bit of up-beat ‘what-if’ was really welcome at this point.
Personally, I hate the pocket universe idea…and agree a jump into the future would more than close off canon issues.
But I also know that it’s been challenging to write a way out of the box that was created…and reconcile fans who are less flexible than I.
And one last thought/question, will Disco explore the premise of Andromeda?
Whenever Calypso took place, it sounded like some Federation ‘can do’, positive, understand the apparent enemy attitude is desperately needed…
I agree, I don’t like the pocket universe idea either. I hope she goes forward in time, and am wondering if there will be some tie-in with the Picard series. If [since the Picard series is going to be a limited series] Discovery ties in with that, I hope it will keep going once Patrick Stewart moves on.
no tie in. P Stewart wouldn’t go for that and he signed off on the arc they created.
Agreed Spiked Canon that there won’t be a formal tie-in.
But it will be important for Discovery to respect whatever canon Picard’s show will establish in its time period.
Fans will expect that continuity will be respected even if Discovery is several centuries in the future.
Why does the Discovery crew need a time crystal to travel back into the past — or the future, for that matter — when all they need to do is fly near a sun at maximum warp and sheer away?
Is the slingshot a known form of time travel in Discovery’s era? I thought it was first done in TOS.
Oops, good catch. That sure would have saved them a lot of trouble, though, don’t you think?
Indeed it would.
They could use a spore drive.
unless we saw it in Enterprise, it hasn’t been established yet. They don’t know how with Spore drive. As I stated above, the coordinates were provided by Lorca
In fact, according to TOS no one in their era even knew time travel was possible at all until the events of “The Naked Time.” They ended up with three days to live over again.
SPOCK: This does open some intriguing prospects, Captain. Since the formula worked, we can go back in time, to any planet, any era.
KIRK: We may risk it someday, Mister Spock.
Truly, if the writing continues to be at least this good, I’m okay with this being a pocket universe that they continue to explore in depth. Season 1 was really bad, but the writing this season has been much better.
“It might be seen as an over-correction and even a betrayal to fans who have supported the show by attempting to placate canon purist critics who may never embrace Discovery anyway.” This part is a big deal to me. Hopefully DSC runners know that just because a group is loud it doesn’t mean they are a majority. Discovery’s success speaks for itself. With old time Trek fans and a lot of new ones that are really excited about Star Trek for the first time. There will be some that will never get behind Discovery, just like some never got behind DS9 (and even TNG), hell I never really like Voyager but my mother loved it. And that’s just fine. You can’t please everyone. There’s other Star Trek shows coming. I love this show, especially after this session. I love the bold choices they’ve made. That has made this show one of the most fresh Star Trek shows since TOS. I want them to keep being bold and definitely don’t over-correct for the haters. Haters love to hate. That’s what they do.
Andrew SD,
I agree SO MUCH. I was in fact a little disappointed that they gave in and changed the Klingon design as much as they did, but they were fairly moderate about it. And I am disappointed not to have the original Discovery “red alert” but now have the same one as TOS [Jaysus, that is an annoying sound, and one callback I’d happily see the back of]. And the silly, “there will be no more holograms ever” in this last episode.
But that’s me being persnickety. I do wonder how Stamets is making out with the spore jumps, if they still affect his brain or not. I hope that question will be answered. I’m glad the ship still does them; I hope that will not be abandoned. I think it’s a cool idea, and one that is no more unlikely than the transporter.
Where will Discovery go? Hopefully somewhere that Prime Gabriel Lorca is.
I think season 2 got so much right. For season three all I need is continued focus on great writting, a few more stand alone episodes like the Harry Mudd episodes. Even more away missions to planets real or CGI (I don’t care). I want more really odd aliens. A Captain Burnham, either next season or 4. And I love Star Fleet stuff, the federation council, starbases, far-flung outpost, parliament and Earth…
As you throw out your cliches, have you considered that those you label as, “haters” may just be recognizing that the show has hole-ridden, high school caliber writing and irritating characters who are impossible to give a shit about? Yeah, that’s the reason, fyi.
Considered and rejected.
Rejected by you because you love the show and cannot handle any of the legitimate criticisms of it. Personally, I think the show has gotten better but it still a ways to go before it gets to the merely “good” level. But I do recognize that there are people who love the show as is.
I’m sorry. Did they not write this show like the canon in your head?
If you so dislike the show why are you reading so far into the comments section?
And why are you even taking the time to comment?
You’re obviously here because you enjoy hating on the show…or perhaps you’re just a Serial contrarian with nothing better to do today.
Or perhaps you’re just a High School level character that others would ever have a hard time giving a shit about.
Listen, you can think whatever you like about Discovery but do you realize that we have the privilege of watching a new Star Trek series unfold in real-time? It hasn’t happened for over a Dozen Years. And I for one don’t want to see high quality show go away cuz a few noizy, pseudo-Trek fans didn’t get their own personal fanfiction made into a series.
You don’t have to like or even watch Discovery. But please, just stop ejaculating your unjustifiably-negative opinions all over the internet because, really dude, no one cares that Discovery isn’t the pony you wanted for your birthday.
“Discovery’s success speaks for itself. ”
Again, that depends on what one defines as “success”. The show is a success in some ways. Not so much in others.
I definite success as such: a viewership so high CBS has ordered multiple new Star Trek shows, thousands to millions of new and old Star Trek fans, some of who I’ve had the pleasure of talking to and are curious about all the Star Trek that came before, critical acclaim, the return of Picard, on this very sight every other article that is not Discovery related pales in comparison when it comes to comments and probably reads, little girls and Black children getting to see a dynamic heroin in scenarios not seen or rarely seen on television before, LGBT community members in love with the Stamets and Colbert story line, an upkick in convention goings, and yes writting and a story line I and clearly others fine compelling and look forward to ever week (it’s not the 90’s or 60’s anymore, story telling has changed in style and that’s ok). As a life long Star Trek fan I’ll continue to stand up for a show I love, that speaks to me. And for those of us who love this show our voice has to be as loud those who are not as big a fan.
Problem… The creation of a STEU is more the result of Discovery’s LACK of success. CBS was invested in CBSAA and STD wasn’t pulling in the subscribers they hoped. So they are throwing more darts at the board, if you will. They added known commodities to Discovery season 2 in an attempt (that worked by all accounts) to increase subscriber levels. (Although it remains to be seen how much churn will be reduced, if at all) The Picard show has generated more buzz than Discovery could ever hope for. So again, the Picard show could be a direct response to the lack of Discovery success.
You personally loving it does not = success for the show. Which seems to be the basis for your comment. I personally am not a fan of the NFL at all. Yet it cannot be denied that the NFL is the most popular and profitable sport in the USA. Response to Discovery has been mixed at best, awful at worst. They have resorted to stunt casting to increase subscribers. In that sense, I would hardly call it a success. However, in the sense that it is likely the most watched original show on CBSAA is the only way I can think of that it be deemed a “success”. I suppose that Netflix is footing a lot of the bill to produce it could be deemed a success as well.
I think this option shows a lack of understanding of how Hollywood works. Executives nor investors would put more money behind something they thought was a failure. Discovery would be cancelled and they would definitely not order multiple new shoes (maybe just one to replace it, maybe). There seems to me a logic deficit in your thinking.
This is true. The entertainment business is a simple-minded creature. I have some major issues with the show but in the end, $$$ talks. If Discovery wasn’t justifying it, CBS would flush it down the toilet.
We should also not forget the fact that monetary success does not automatically equal to good quality product. I mean films like Armageddon and Godzilla were popular films, but they weren’t what you call really good films. Yes, something can be successful but different people can judge success differently. Some people look for the monetary success, others look for the success in the quality of the product. Very rarely we get something that ticks both boxes.
That is rather narrow thinking and shows a lack of understanding of how a business runs. There is no expectation to make money on the outset in most of these cases. CBSAA was no different. There was no way they were going to have one season of Trek, see that they weren’t getting subscribers and then chuck the entire endeavor. They were going to do whatever they could to make it work and eat whatever losses that it produced for as long as they financially could.
Context is everything. You forget how much CBS had invested in CBSAA and in using Trek as their flagship program. It HAD to succeed no matter what. At least for the time being. There was no way in hell it would not go at least 3 seasons going in. Period. If it were the success you claimed, they would not have made the changes they made to the overall tone of the show nor would they have fiddled with some of the look or resort to the stunt of bringing in Pike and Spock. This logic is perfectly sound if one understands context and the business.
There has not been one Star Trek show that was perfect from the start. They all need and should have time to grow and change. For God sakes the original series pilot was rejected and redone and recast. TNG needed time to grow to greatness. I think this show is well on its way to becoming great. I’d hate the producers to too change course to far and turn this show into something we’ve seen already as some would have. The internet awful creature unto itself sometimes they should contextualize that. Live long and prosper Star Trek Discovery! How’s that for a cliche.
TOS was pretty much solid from the first airing onward. By accounts it took TNG 52 episodes to “gel”. STD after two seasons only has had, what? 29?
As far as I’m concerned Star Trek Discovery “gelled” at session 1 episode 6. And has only gotten better since. Session two has been an absolute pleasure. TOS is gold (not arguing with you about that). I adore TNG but it didn’t find it’s stride until session 3. DS9 didn’t fine itself until they got The Defiant. Voyager… well I’ll someone else can argue for that show and Enterprise 3rd and 4th were it’s best.
“As far as I’m concerned Star Trek Discovery “gelled” at session 1 episode 6”
If I was drinking something when I read that I would do a spit take. Lethe is still the best episode of the series, I grant you. But that was and still is the show’s high water mark and hasn’t been seriously approached since. Once they went to the MU in season one it went over the proverbial cliff. Season 2 it has started to claw it’s way back up. But there is still a very very long way to go. And the boost they got to help season two will vanish for season 3.
But I am glad you like it. Many others are hoping we will get a reset button pressed tonight.
That shut ML31 up.
At the end of the day we’re all just expressing our points of view.
Maybe we don’t see the origin of the 7 bursts in the finale, since there is not much time left for this. This could be a theme for season 3.
Georgiou and Tyler have to appear in the Section 31 series (no time for Disco anymore), maybe with Spock. If Spock goes to the future, we know they all will return.
I have a hint who will be “acting” captain of Discovery in Season 3: Jean Luc Picard! The official name of the Picard series will be: Star Trek Discovery Season Three ;D
The known cast and production location are a spoof like Voqler…
Frakes said he directs episodes 3 and 4 of the Picard series and episode 3 and a “later” one (4?). Think about this :)
Edit: “Frakes … later one (4?) of Discovery”
It would be much more interesting, dramatically, if it’s Prime Lorca. The crew would have to adjust and get past their mistrust of the Terran Lorca. And he may have a different command style from Pike’s. Maybe not as severe and demanding as Terran Lorca’s, but different.
I’ve said before that Terran Lorca’s command style was more like real-life military officers, but there’s a crucial difference: officers in my experience do not criticize in public, only in a one-on-one discussion; it’s not good for morale. However officers in non-administrative positions may operate differently.
I hope that Discovery’s syncing up with canon isn’t the result of the ship being erased from history. I love this show and I would hate for this to be the case. I really don’t want Star Trek to go the St. Elsewhere finale route.
I hope she doesn’t get erased … I hope she just goes to post-Nemesis. Also there are something like 75 – 125 years between TOS and TNG, I’m not sure why they don’t just have Discovery go there. But then you still have the issue of spore drive being non-existent later.
Discovery will stay in the timeline but at a different place in time
Well, Tilly already has a snow globe collection! 😂
that’s what I’m afraid of and if so, IMO, would ruin this show
Too late!
I’m not a fan of the concept behind Discovery at all. The spore drive, the season one regulars, all of it. So I would not shed any tears of it was erased from existence. But that ain’t gonna happen so the only talk about it would be wishful thinking.
I have my own therory: They kept cutting to shots of the torpedo sticking out of the saucer section of Enterprise. I think somebody or something important is in the torpedo, for some reason. If i had to guess, I’d say it’s Spock.
Could be totally wrong and talking out my @$$, but it’s just a thought.
Spock just can’t seem to stay out of torpedos, apparently.
Khan
While I enjoyed Season 1, most of the “twists” were obvious and some were a bit tedious to wait for realization on screen. Season 2 has brought back the fun of speculation where we can discuss the many possible future paths, some of which are more or less likely, but none of which are obvious.
I like the speculation as well. Season 2 is less boring and more fun. Star Trek is very well known for this.
The problem with this show has been whenever they had an opportunity to come up with something crazy great, it ends up being what we kinda thought was gonna happen anyway
I think Discovery will be abandoned in the far future, but the crew will return in some other vessel/shuttle using the time crystal, which will be re-crystalized by Po using a variation of her method to re-crystalize dylithium. But it will take them all of Season 3 to get that done. Culber is not on the Discovery and won’t be seen much in Season 3, but Season 4 with the crew’s return will flip the Season 2 dynamic, with Stammets returning from ‘the dead’ to Culber.
that was my original thought but all this does is leave Discovery in the future and not “correct” the Canon issues (though, by my name, I don’t care about Canon issues #JJTrekRules)
What do you mean “might be”? Sarek is the worst father in the universe.
You misspelled “Tywin Lannister”.
He’s fictional! Sarek is real! 😂
He’s a Vulcan parent…pretty consistent with what we think of IMO)
We are speaking of Discovery going to the future. In Calypso, we learn that the ship had been abandon in a nebula for 1,000 years. It seems clear now that the computer combined with the sphere data will develop into Zora over the 1,000 years the ship was sitting in the nebula.
After hearing the plan in the last episodes, it occurs to me that Calypso likely does not take place in the 33rd Century as everyone assumed but in the 42nd Century. If Discovery is flung 900 years into future next week, it is safe to assume that sometime after that the ship will be abandoned in the nebula. That would mean that the 1,000 years would be from that time, so 1,900 years from the 23rd century.
Some evidence that points to that being possible is the fact that Craft does not appear to know what Starfleet is or the Federation. He does state the people he was fighting are called the “V’draysh”, that sounds like (V-daray-sh) of Federation.
We know from Voyager and Enterprise that the Federation and Starfleet survive to at least the 31st Century. It seems unlikely that a human from the 33rd Century would not know what the Federation or Starfleet is, or would mispronounce the name as Craft did. Tack on another 1,000 years, and it’s possible, especially if the Federation fell sometime between the 32nd and say 36th centries.
The ship could also be even further in the future, as it’s made clear by The Son of None, Ask Tylor, that Bernahnm could land in anytime. It could be the 55th Century or 100th Century.
But my feeling is they are going to land Discovery is a time where the Federation and Starfleet are still around.
“that sounds like (V-daray-sh) of Federation.”
That seems pretty obvious now that I think about it. Something pretty catastrophic would have to happen for the Federation to be all but forgotten within 200-300 years of the 31st century. On the other hand, does “Calypso” expressly state it is the 31st century? I know Michael Chabron intimated it was 1,000 years in the future. However, he could have been ballparking, or at least there is no reason they couldn’t change it based on what was (or was not) stated on screen.
I hope they come back to the 23rd century at some point.
I want to see what the Discovery can do in the future. Maybe they get a new ship. They could return one day.
In Calypso, could Discovery be in orbit of Xahea? Noticed the conditions around the planet seen in Such Sweet Sorrow were similar to what little we see outside Discovery in Calypso; a lot of mist and lightning. Maybe Po keeps the ship there since she is remaining aboard for mysterious reasons.
Can we just forget about the Section 31 series and move on to a Capt Pike/Lt. Spock show instead?
this is getting tired lol
“Spock has his hands full in the finale, will there be time to stop by the barber?”
Nope. He will touch a time crystal by accident which let grow his hair. He will show up on the bridge with a 2250’s contemporary man-bun. :-)
LOL
We’ve already seen at least one man-bun on a Discovery member this season.
What an amalgamated mess is this series.Too many people in the cast with convoluted storylines. All are issues the writers have engulfed themselves in, then to try to tie it all back to canon.
Threads from the original series are very accepted. Major omissions like Spock had a sister is too much to swallow. Hate the over-design of the sets and costumes. Way too much CGI…it is a crutch. But expected by writers who played with too many video games in their youth.
I just hope Number One doesn’t die. That would really really suck.
I have a really dumb guess that she is the captain of the Discovery “and that’s why we never hear about her again.”
it’s possible which means the writers won’t think of it lol
Well that wouldn’t be as bad as her being killed, but then that could squash the chance for a Pike/Enterprise show. BUT I think I like Number One as the new captain. I actually really, really like it.
If they go to the future it will expand what I think is the missed opportunity of the show. Yes we have Pike, Spock etc, but weren’t we promised that we would see a lot of the characters from TOS? People such as Garth etc.
As I read all of these perfectly valid questions, I don’t see how all of this can be resolved in an episode already steeped in a big battle scene. I am a worried they’ve juggled too much and left too much unanswered going in. I suppose they could tie up some loose ends next season like Burnham’s mom or the generation of the red signals. Otherwise, there’s a lot to show or a lot of figuring out and expository dialogue that needs to occur.
“and especially why the spore drive technology was never heard of before”
It still won’t explain how it is possible that no other species managed to invent it :)
Great article with what seems to be all the right questions. The show was awesome as well. I suspect Ash Tyler, whatever he is going to do, will be part of the solution to the seemingly unwinnable position the Enterprise is in, because even if Burnham and the Discovery do leap into the future the Enterprise will be stuck with a fleet of section 31 ships to fight!
Maybe she will become “yesterday’s Enterprise”? They will fight until the Enterprise will be destroyed to ensure that Burnham (and Disco) gets past the wormhole. Once Burnham passes through, she will change/correct the timeline and the Enterprise was never destroyed.
You forgot the canon issue with the Klingon look. Why do they look the way they are and how will they be brought back to the look in TOS?
I would like to see a Captain from TOS like Decker or Tracey OR Garth, what do you think of the chance of that?
LORD Garth!
maybe this is the start of the Temporal Accord, and temporal agents.
no one had intervened in this story line, we know from the prime line, cap. Archer 2151-2161 (there was temporal agency in this time window)
Discovery is in 2255 no one of them shows, maybe this is for the temporal agency the start
of all stuff and the simply didn’t want to intervene or change something. We got a time intrusion, change of time events, and they did not intervene ? Why? :)
2 series with discovery and the other being enterprise would rock , i like captain pike and his crew to as well as discoverys