‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Cast And Crew Discuss Season 2 And A Bit About Season 3

With Hollywood heading into Emmy season, CBS sent members from the cast and crew of Star Trek: Discovery to the Paley Center for the Media in Beverly Hills on Tuesday for a “For Your Consideration” screening and panel. Much of the focus was on the second season, but there was also some talk about the third from co-showrunner Alex Kurtzman and others. TrekMovie was there to bring you all the highlights.

Star Trek: Discovery panel at Paley Center Los Angeles, May 7, 2019

Kurtzman on jumping into the future and the challenge of season three

Executive producer Alex Kurtzman discussed how a change in the show’s time setting was something planned for a long time:

We knew early [that Discovery would get stranded in the future], actually really early. Part of it was recognizing that there were all these canonical issues that had to be squared away. Why was the Spore Drive never mentioned? Why has Spock never mentioned [his sister]? It goes on and on. At a certain point it became really clear that jumping them either to the distant past or the far future was the only answer. And the minute you starting thinking future, then you have to go further into the future than any Trek show has ever gone, because then you have a brand new opportunity.

Kurtzman also briefly discussed where this time jump to the 32nd century leaves the show for season three:

The challenge of season three – without revealing anything – will be how do you reinvent the world and the universe while staying true to everything that Star Trek is? 

Showrunner explains setting up the search for Spock during season two

He also discussed when they knew they would be introducing the USS Enterprise into the show:

When we decided to make Michael Spock’s half-sister we knew that inevitably that bill was coming and that would be the crux of season two, if we were lucky enough to get a season two. But you can’t just drop that out there as a random factoid. It requires an entire season to tell the story of why Mr. Spock has never told the story of his sister, and not just from a fan-service point of view. I am a huge sucker for sibling stories. I just loved the idea of figuring out how to take a season to set them as far apart as possible and then bring them back together.

On why Spock was held back for half of the second season:

We started breaking story right after the first season and it very quickly became clear that to us the most interesting thing was to not bring Spock in right away. We wanted to hold that for a while and let people search for Spock. [laughs] Just building the anticipation and the specter of Spock in the first episode “Brother,” he looms so large but he is not there and you get a deep sense that something happened between them. I always knew instinctively that I wanted to bookend the season with the siblings talking to each other, but never directly. They are echoing to each other, but we never know if their messages are going to be received. So, it starts with Burnham talking to Spock and ends with Spock talking to Burnham.

Alex Kurtzman at the Star Trek: Discovery panel at Paley Center Los Angeles, May 7, 2019

Martin-Green hopes to see Burnham find balance in season three

Show star Sonequa Martin-Green discussed Michael Burnham’s arc over the first two seasons of the show and where she thinks it is going in season three:

I loved the redemption arc of season one and I loved the arc of self-discovery of season two, because there are all these things that happen that sort of erase history in my mind as Michael. There are these cornerstones of my identity. And most of them are around shame – things that I thought I was responsible for, deaths I thought I was responsible for. I felt like I was sort of an agent of destruction. So, one by one, those things falling away made me realize who I am when I don’t have to be some kind of image of myself and not have to seek the approval of my father anymore. It’s hard. It’s hard! Not having to do that was very exciting for me and a very emotional journey which I love. I liken it to a pendulum swing, where you see me all the way on the other end in season one being as Vulcan as can be, and you see me swing all the way over to humanity and you see me be as emotional as I can be. I am not behaving capriciously. It is all within reason, but I love that that you see me swinging and what I hope for – and what I think we would all hope for – is that I start to swing toward the middle and find that perfect balance.

Sonequa Martin-Green at the Star Trek: Discovery panel at Paley Center Los Angeles, May 7, 2019

Ethan Peck needed help to get over his fear of Spock

Actor Ethan Peck admitted his own insecurities when it came to taking on the role of Spock:

I was hugely terrified. It seemed arrogant that I was suddenly in this reality. I was like, “what are they thinking? I hope I get fired.” I was maybe going to ruin this for so many people that care so deeply about it. But after two months I was not fired and I was still there and here we are. 

The actor explained how his fears were abated through the support of the cast, especially the show’s star:

When I went back in for the third or fourth time for the role I still didn’t know what it was, and I was like, “I don’t know if I am going to be able to do this if it is not a supportive cast.” Because it is so scary and vulnerable. The text is so challenging. And I couldn’t have walked in to a more supportive, beautiful group of people that were every day attempting and succeeding in creating a very special world. Most of my work was with Sonequa and I couldn’t have asked for anyone better. [To Sonequa] Thank you so much.

As this was an industry crowd, one of the questions had Peck getting into detail about his makeup process, revealing he spent more time in the chair than Doug Jones took to be transformed into Saru:

I think we counted it was fifty-eight…fifty-eight pairs of ears. The eyebrows, they didn’t shave them. My makeup took twice as long as [Doug Jones] because there was so much detailed work and they had to cover the eyebrows with Bondo and then a blocker and then paint and then laced eyebrows.

Doug Jones says changes for Saru will be subtle

The second season of Discovery saw a major change for Doug Jones’ Saru, with the loss of his threat ganglia and a whole new fearless outlook on life. When asked if this will change the unique physicality of the character, Jones said it would be subtle:

You can’t just simulate, it is what it is. I am stuck in hoof boots – which are high-heel shoes without a heel behind them – so I am tiptoeing around all day. So, that is still there. But it is just the confidence. It is more of an internal thing, that will hopefully be more apparent. It is subtle. It should come out in subtleties. It shouldn’t be overt like “I’m stronger now!” That would be too cartoony or comic-book.

Doug Jones, Ethan Peck  at the Star Trek: Discovery panel at Paley Center Los Angeles, May 7, 2019

Wilson Cruz isolated himself to play the return of Dr. Culber, sees more change ahead in season three

The second season saw the resurrection of Dr. Hugh Culber, who returned with an identity crisis. Actor Wilson Cruz revealed that he took some serious steps to prepare himself for this new portrayal of the character:

It was a challenge I have to say. So much of my storyline was in isolation with what was happening with everyone else, which is really helpful because Culber was isolated and feeling out of sorts. I really did isolate myself from the cast because I love them too much and I needed to feel estranged to them. So, even during shooting, I would place my chair away so I didn’t get chatty, because Anthony [Rapp] and I can talk. There was a lot of isolation and it was really lonely, I have to say. And before I even started, I was growing all of the hair on my entire body and I didn’t want to go out in public. So, I was really home or at the gym, because I was naked. [laughs]

Cruz also talked about the character’s arc for the second season and how he sees it playing out in the third:

It required me to imagine what it would be like to get a second chance at life. Culber was in that Mycelial Network, he doesn’t even know. It could have been years, for all that he knows. And in that time, he thought a lot about what his life was before he got there. And when given a second opportunity at life, what do you do with that? What are you willing to change? What do you need to change? What worked for you before that didn’t work? And top of that, the fact that he was in a completely new body that was made from a different plane and having to imagine what it would be like to be outside of your body and unfamiliar with the body that you are in.

And I love the journey that they took this character on. He didn’t just automatically just jump back in. There were consequences to what happened – for the relationship and for him. And that is going to continue as we go on. Just because at the end of the season they are back together doesn’t mean that his journey of self-discovery doesn’t continue. I think there is more change even ahead and I am excited about exploring that.

Wilson Cruz at the Star Trek: Discovery panel at Paley Center Los Angeles, May 7, 2019

Visual effects team gets a boost for working on Star Trek

Visual effects supervisor Jason Zimmerman talked about the process of creating the effects for the show and how it involves Star Trek history:

It really starts with the story that we get. When we get the script, that is when we break down and look at what we are going to do here. You do a lot of research from past iterations of the show, from past iterations of features, to figure out what the best look is. A lot credit goes to everyone else on the show. The art department gives us great design and there is so much to play off, it is really our job not to mess it up.

Zimmerman also noted that visual effects artists are motivated to work harder because it is a Star Trek show:

When you work on Star Trek, every artist that is a visual effects person is going to want to work on the show and they are all going to bring something extra and special and spend that extra two hours at the end of the day. Everyone is so excited to work on it. My job is super-fun.

As this was an industry event about promoting the show for awards, executive producer Alex Kurtzman jumped in to heap praise on Zimmerman, comparing the work to a perennial award winner:

He’s being modest! He doesn’t have a feature budget, and we don’t have that kind of time. So, what it requires is an artist with an artist’s eye who can manage so many people and take in story and take in a thousand notes and figure out on a really short period of time how to make it look like a feature, because that is the standard we hold the show to. For Jason and his whole team I would put this up against Game of Thrones, just at a level of pure artistry.

And executive producer Heather Kadin joined in, noting that much of the work of Zimmerman and his team goes unnoticed as they help fix things in post-production:

You have to understand when you are doing a show like this, anytime something doesn’t work the way we wanted to work on screen, it’s like: “Jason will fix it.”…He is a wizard, really a wizard.

Kadin on giving Star Trek fans their money’s worth

Executive producer Heather Kadin spoke about the work that has gone into Discovery to bring it into the modern era as an anchor show for a new streaming service:

Star Trek obviously has an enormous fanbase. What I learned through this journey is they are fans because of what it represents to them and what it represents about the future and what it represents at its core … So, I think the first thing was: how do you remain true to Star Trek at its core and then how do you bring it to the modern age? We have never seen a totally serialized Star Trek. We have never heard a score like Jeff Russo’s done. We have never seen FX like this in a Star Trek show. You go back to those earlier shows – and we love them for what they were – but if we presented everyone with that, people would have been a little confused. Not to mention we were helping to launch this new streaming platform and took it very seriously. If fans are going to be paying for a show they never paid for before, they really are going to get their money’s worth.

How Michelle Paradise rose to co-showrunner for season three

Alex Kurtzman explained why Michelle Paradise – who joined the show halfway through the second season – was tapped to join him as co-showrunner for season three:

There are a lot of things you look for in a room, and then there are a lot of things I look for in a partner. The first thing was, Michelle writes character from the heart first and foremost. She wrote “Project Daedalus”, which is the episode where Airiam dies, and she had a very tall order in that episode. People were very curious about Airiam, but we didn’t really know much about her up until that point. So the episode had to really make you love her, and then we kill her. And that is hard. It’s hard not to feel, “oh, we should have been with her before.” Michelle’s first draft was so, so good.

And she is very organized, and I am very not. So the partnership has a lot to do with how she will keep the trains running. She came to me early in the season and she’s like, “I’m going to give you lots of time to blow things up, and put it in a schedule and you are going to have two weeks to read it, hate it, start over.” And I really need somebody to do that because it is a process where it’s like you have a flashlight in the dark and you are feeling your way through it and if it feels wrong – no matter how much time you spent in the room saying this could be a good idea – once it is on the page, if it doesn’t feel right, then it is my responsibility to say I am not feeling it and we have to try something different. So, I do need someone to keep me to that schedule.

Kurtzman discussed how the two of them are working together on season three:

We have got this great rhythm now that if we aren’t in the room together we will speak in the morning and she will download me on the day’s work. She is up to forever o’clock, so she sends me stuff really late, and I read it first thing in the morning because I am up really early, and then we will talk and we have a really good rhythm. I also really like her. That is the thing. You have to take someone and we are going to spend a lot of time together. Do you believe the things I do? Do we disagree in the right ways? The message of Star Trek is so important. It is not just inclusivity in front of the camera but behind the camera, on every level. So, I just felt it was the right, easy fit.

Sonequa Martin-Green joined in to speak for the cast and crew about Paradise being tapped as co-showrunner:

I’ll tell you, we are all very excited as well, the cast and crew, we are all so excited for her. Michelle is a soul writer. She writes from the soul and we have been so proud and grateful for Alex and for you and how we transition. It was a difficult transition. It was a lot of love and a lot of difficult emotions to deal with in our transition, but the way you picked us up with such precision and such fervor and talent. We were very excited. We have been very grateful for season two and now season three.

For her part, Michelle Paradise expressed her gratitude for the opportunity:

It’s incredible, it’s absolutely incredible to come on and have the opportunity to [be co-showunner] and to have the opportunity to do it with Alex, and with Heather and [executive producer] Aaron [Baiers] and this entire cast. It’s Star Trek and it’s iconic and that is a dream come true. And to get to do it with great people is just amazing. So, I couldn’t be happier.

Michelle Paradise and Heather Kadin at the Star Trek: Discovery panel at Paley Center Los Angeles, May 7, 2019

Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access. It airs in Canada on Space and streams on CraveTV. It is available on Netflix everywhere else.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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“We knew early [that Discovery would get stranded in the future], actually really early. Part of it was recognizing that there were all these canonical issues that had to be squared away. Why was the Spore Drive never mentioned? Why has Spock never mentioned [his sister]? It goes on and on. At a certain point it became really clear that jumping them either to the distant past or the far future was the only answer. And the minute you starting thinking future, then you have to go further into the future than any Trek show has ever gone, because then you have a brand new opportunity.”

Not trying to get on their case about it, but they didn’t realize these issues BEFORE they started writing the show in season one? If you wanted to keep the show in the 23rd century then maybe DON’T create a spore drive or DON’T give Spock a sister, among the many many other things.

But I’m happy they recognize the issue too like many fans did and setting the show in the future. Going forward is what I always wanted but I still don’t get why they just can’t set it in the 26th century or something? Are they worried about stepping on Picard’s toes? A century ahead of that show they can still do whatever they want IMO. Or maybe they are trying to set themselves as far away from all known canon to basically start fresh. I wish they just did this in first season (would’ve saved them a lot of headaches, although those Klingons would’ve been hated in any century lol) but a fish out of water story with an outdated starship could be interesting. It’s basically Voyager lost in time instead of space.

And I think this is good for any Discovery haters out there because if they still hate the show, it will be so far away from primary canon they can essentially avoid it like many do with the Kelvin movies. But its still canon at the same time.

I suspect a lot of what many view as mistakes in the first season were a result of the vision Bryan Fuller had for the show. Maybe it would have played out better if he had stuck around. We will never know. But, I give kudos to Kurtzman and company for listening to the fan feedback and doing what they could to “fix” the perceived mistakes in Season 2 by reconciling with canon to a large degree and then freeing themselves for a fresh start in season 3.

Yeah you’re probably right. If Fuller was still in charge then there probably would be a lot of differences and probably stayed in the 23rd century. But since he’s not around its probably hard to figure out what to do with a lot of this stuff he set up that clearly went against canon.

But I agree with you, I give Kurtzman LOTS of credit for doing this and realizing the show would have too many problems staying in the 23rd century. I have given Discovery a lot of grief in the past but I have ALWAYS given it credit when I think its doing something right and this is definitely going the right direction IMO, at least going forward. I’m still a bit cautious its going so far in the future but the idea is so exciting at the same time. If this show goes 5 or 6 seasons they are going to be able to really shape the 32nd century just like how TNG did for the 24th century. And it tells me they really want to take Trek in new places and ideas. I will definitely watch the Pike show if it happens and will give Section 31 a chance but this idea excites me way more than those two combined.

Its still crazy some people thought going into the 25th century with the Picard show will raise a lot of technological issues, but Discovery is going 800 years pass that lol. I don’t know if they are up to the job but they have my full support! This what Star Trek should be doing more of, looking ahead and creating new canvases and not just looking back to connect with old ideas like the last 15 years starting with Enterprise. They definitely have a wide canvas now.

It has been said Fuller wanted the show to visit different time periods. Would be nice to visit all different time periods to see, again, Archer, Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, with popular characters of their crews.

I still remember those ship designs that Fuller released early on. If he was still in charge I have a feeling the ships would still feel very, very different from the rest of Trek’s design aesthetic. People still don’t get that him leaving caused a significant change because he was driving this thing from the start with all of the plans that were in place.

Lets face it, Fuller was basically just trying to reboot Star Trek in general. He never said the word, but thats very clear looking at the first season, he wanted the show in his own image. And I think that would’ve been fine if they just said it was a reboot and went that direction. But they didn’t and later realize changing everything so drastically only got them into trouble with fans. Seeing what they did with Pike and the Enterprise is the way the show should’ve went in season one and exactly WHY fans got so excited about them, more so than Discovery itself. That was the way to go, present the familiar but update it with a bit of redesign, but not ignore it completely like first season did.

Once we saw what the Discovery ship originally looked like, I knew we were in for a ride. When they showed the new Klingons, I knew we were in for a rough ride lol. I’m glad in season 2 they got things a bit closer to looking like original Star Trek, even if its still different in parts.

I think they realized from the start, and that’s what they are saying. They wanted to have spore drive, they wanted to have connective tissue with Spock, but they knew it would come at a price — they would have to get rid of those things before it became unsustainable. That’s what they thought, and that’s what they did. Remember when there was a rumor Fuller wanted to do each season in a different time? There ya go…

I just don’t see the point of it? So you give Spock a sister only to give a convoluted back story of why she’s never mentioned again. So why bother? It just seems easier not to give him one in the first place. I mean if it was just an excuse to bring Spock on the show you could’ve did that anyway. You don’t need to give the guy a family member to do that. He and Picard weren’t related, they still found a way to bring him on TNG.

And Fuller wanted an anthology idea with a new cast and setting every season. This is not that at all.

Good writing could have made it work and it could have been viewed as an unseen part of Trek history, like Enterprise did

Instead we get a story line that is convuluted to explain why it’s not part of canon.

Focus in good stories, instead of trying to fix mistakes.

They may sound like they have a plan but I don’t think they do.

I want to love DSC, but it’s just God awful. And I think I am only watching out of obligation as a fan.

I am baffled by those who think it’s great. Give me Voyager over this anyday.

Not sure I will be watching season 3 at the moment.

I have really enjoyed season 2, at least much more than I did season 1, thats for sure. But yes, a lot of season 2 was still pretty sloppy and overly convoluted by the end of the story line. It started off well IMO, got a little wonky in some parts but I honestly like the first two-thirds of it. But from episode 10 and on was really a mess.

I like the show a lot more than you do but I can’t disagree with your basic assessment, most of it was just to fix bad mistakes which should’ve never been there in the first place, namely giving Spock a sister. Especially if we are suppose to assume they will never meet again and Spock will just literally pretend like she never existed….while ignoring the fact she’s become a celebrity in her own right in Starfleet. But yeah, let’s not ever mention her name again, so canon problem solved. ;)

I’m rooting for the show and I’m very excited to see where its going next season, but sadly its still my least favorite Star Trek show out of all of them. But I also remind myself a lot of the other shows really took off in their third season, mostly because they got some drastic change in their narrative or production. And its safe to say Discovery is getting the biggest narrative change out of all of them by far. So here’s hoping it goes the way of the others.

But it has no premise of it’s own, it’s borrowing from other stuff. There was a time when Trek was smarter

Thats what I’m hoping season 3 will do and give them a premise they can stick with the rest of the show. Also why I don’t think we will see them going back to the 23rd century in fourth season, if ever, because then it will just continue feeling more random and no clear focus if every season they are jumping to something else. I hope they stay in the 32nd and just world build. They literally have an entire century to themselves they can do anything with. There is no excuse they can’t make it totally their own now and the problem they had in the 23rd century.

With Kurtzman leading and basically only a sketch work of Fuller’s original concept being used I am highly doubtful.

Will the new direction make Tilly and Burnham more likeable?

No it wasn’t…

Starships that can travel to other Galaxy- No Federation but planetary states- Brexit- disbelief in science. Faith. I want a Terran State where they no longer in the Federation l. Vulcan and Romulan reunification. Dominion controlled by Klingons and capital planet in the dominion territory and are the most advance and sophisticated power while Earth and other federation worlds are third world. Galactic extinction event where a few societies lived and pass down tech and knowledge.

You know, there actually is a pretty good science story under all that Captain Neil.

After going through the season a few times with different family members, we can see the bones of it.

But breaking a complex science story requires following through in the script to bring the audience along.

Instead, the writers relied excessively on the momentum of EMOTIONS and EXPLOSIONS.

My bottom line: it shouldn’t take a group of folks who have advanced degrees and research expertise multiple viewings to find and to follow the breadcrumbs of the science storyline.

Yes, I know that the showrunners had to change, but I really am looking for better exposition next season.

Emotions, explosions and no verisimilitude are what is ruining bit for me.

uh just leave then dude…stop watching…. We won’t miss you…

We can say the idea to explore different time frames was there from the beginning.

And you’re presuming they built this 23rd century setting not to revisit it, which seems to be a false assumption. Section 31 probably will stay in the 23rd century (since Kurtzman said we were going to see how it became what it was in DS9), and we could get new spin-offs in the same time frame.

Think of this: if they presented us at first with a Star Trek: Pike, before Discovery, we would have criticized a lot, we would have complained about lack of creativity, of recasting, of new sets etc. The way they did it with Discovery, now most people WANT to see a Pike show with recasts, old premise, new sets etc. It seems they were successful at making us accept a 23rd century with current production values, and now they can do whatever they want — even reboot TOS itself.

That was the only possible rationale to put this series only ten years before TOS, and it worked perfectly to that effect.

Again its not the same thing. Fuller was talking about an actual anthology series like Twilight Zone is done and he wanted to show other known periods of Star Trek like the TOS movie, TNG eras and so on, not just jump 1000 years into the future. Discovery is simply changing the direction of the show, but its not an anthology. And as Kurtzman himself made very clear, it was mostly done to fix canon, which I applaud, but you’re taking two very different ideas and suggesting its the same thing. It isn’t.

And I’m not presuming at all we won’t see the 23rd century again lol. I have said many, many times on other articles that the 23rd century is not dead, which you can find since the finale. I said we will probably see it again via Section 31 as you just said, a possible Pike show/mini-series/TV movies or something else altogether. So yes I’m 100% positive the 23rd century will show up again like I was 100% positive we would get a post-Nemesis show. Unlike some myopic and narrow minded fans, I understand Trek is a big and diverse place with lots of facets so they will probably be revisiting the 23rd and 24th centuries for decades to come while new ones are created like Discovery is doing now. All I care about is that Star Trek keeps looking forward as well and thankfully they are FINALLY doing that.

I just don’t think Discovery itself will be going back to the 23rd century, that’s all. But yes I suspect in a few years another show will be 23rd century based. If Section 31 is actually green lit, it will probably be that one first but for all we know it could be one of the animation projects (although I’m hoping at least one of them is set post-Picard like the 26th century).

Its not that making a show in the 23rd century that was the problem, it creating a show that felt too advanced and ignored canon in it that was the problem. Clearly second season they moved a lot closer to original canon fans wanted to see, but they obviously felt Discovery would still have problems keeping it there so they removed it.

That show should have never been in the 23rd century to begin with, but how else could they give Spock a sister just so they would have to pretend to be dead and anyone gets court martial for even mentioning her again. Brilliant writing there.

Reading between the lines sort of does indicate to me that there were people who felt a lot of the early decisions the show made were massive mistakes, and that what’s come after is high-level cleanup. I can see how that might be the case, and if so I can empathize with Kurtzman, etc. being in an unenviable position.

However, very few of the decisions they’ve made after that have been sensible. So I’ve got empathy, but still think they could and should have done a better job.

Ultimately, this is all CBS’s fault for failing to pick the right people. It must have been clear early on that Bryan Fuller wasn’t working out, and the only reason they moved forward was that they needed Trek to prop up All Access. And it’s done that; not alone, but it’s been instrumental.

And all it took was pressing ahead with a show that was not ready, has not been ready ever since, and is at times merely a twisted reflection of the thing it ought to be (and says it is). I get it. CBS All Access gotta eat. But that’s really all this has been thus far, and every now and then we get a little tidbit that strongly hints at it from a behind-the-scenes angle.

Not ready, and struggling creatively…

But more than hitting the demand numbers CBS was looking for by all reports.

I do give both Kurtzman and the new senior execs at CBS credit for moving forward with a strategic approach…

Repositioning Discovery, offering a menu of products, embedding executive level marketing management that reports to CBS directly.

They could have just praised themselves for meeting their original targets and ignored the issues.

It sounds as though very many very tough conversations have happened since Discovery season one began preproduction.

And it’s clear that they understand that the talent and the production side has really carried more than their share of the weight. It’s good to see that acknowledged and put forward for Emmy consideration.

Good points all.

Agree with all of this as well TG47!

I think AA hitting all its numbers DOES prove Discovery is probably doing better than some of us give it credit for. I think Discovery is proving that there is a big enough audience out there to consider it successful and it probably will go for a few more seasons.

And I also think it was probably a smart move to have the show go forward because it will then gain attention for a lot of fans who DON’T watch it because they didn’t want another prequel, don’t care about the 23rd century or both. This move will keep most original fans like us but it will probably gain new followers as well. It may lose some of the people who are interested only in 23rd century canon but I think its a small minority. I think if you are a fan of Discovery and like the characters you will watch out of curiosity alone even if you are not fond of it leaving that century.

But I do agree as well, I think season one had a LOT of problems everyone seem to recognize and why they are doing such a drastic change. I give them major credit for both listening to the fans and just realizing on their own the show probably wouldn’t work if it stayed the direction of first season.

Some good points in this thread. This experience makes me cautiously optimistic that they won’t make the same mistakes with the Picard series. At least I hope so!

Moving into the future was overkill for all these “issues”. It was like willing a fly with a sledgehammer.

Could be. Depends on how it goes from here, I guess. My hope is that somebody had a magic-bullet type idea, and that suddenly the third season is going to make the show awesome, and that the Picard series will be awesome, and that the Section 31 show will get canceled in favor of an awesome Pike-terprise show, and that the animated shows will be awesome and will bring tons of new viewers to the franchise.

All of that could happen. Here’s hoping!

Bryant, I want to join the mycelial network you are tripping on, it seems to be a more awesome place to be than Discovery 2019 :P

Oh, don’t get me wrong — I’m not optimistic for any of that actually happening.

Wouldn’t it be cool, though?

Not to be cynical, but I think they knew exactly what they were doing, they just didn’t expect the size of the fan backslash. So they emptied that soda can of TOS fanwank and family connections, now they are just going to throw it away and open a new one. I can see a lot of short-term business thinking in here (not like an artistic, overall vision); they are basically just tightroping from season to season and see what crazy dramatic thing they can come up with NEXT TIME to not just retain, but increase their audience. So season 4, if it even happens, will be the reckoning for this approach, as how can they top the season 3 twist of going 1000 years into the future?

This is all possible too!

I do think (or hope) season three will bare out a long term plan like what DS9 did with the Dominion and just carry the show forward and not have every season be another big crazy twist that will re-up the show. Star Trek fans don’t need that all the time. If they stay in this century, probably through its final season, just start world building here and don’t have Discovery jumping to another galaxy in season four or anything like that. But yes with this show you never know. ;)

Galaxy-hopping would be kind of cool, now that you mention it. I’m not sure I want that to actually happen; but it might be interesting.

That said, aren’t they supposed to not be using the mycelial network anymore on account of it harming the lifeforms that reside within it? Did that angle just get dropped?

No they can still use the spore drive. They said it was Culber that was affecting the mycelial network when he was trapped inside and not the spore drive itself. And they used the spore drive twice after that episode, once to jump to Boreth and again to Xahea in episode 13. So its definitely still active.

But yes who knows, if the Federation is still around in the 32nd century they may be in the Andromeda galaxy by now? Or have used transwarp conduits like the Borg used to get to another galaxy. TECHNICALLY the spore drive can go anywhere in the universe, but its still a matter of needing the coordinates of where you can go. But that might not be a problem by then either. That’s what will be fun because by this point in the future they can do pretty much whatever they want, which felt like what they were doing on this show anyway lol. They now don’t need to make any excuses for it.

They didn’t create the spore drive or Burnham being related to Spock. Fuller did that and he bailed like he does all his shows.

Cautiously optimistic for season 3. They have great teams working on this show. Hopefully they’ll have less of a mess behind the scenes going forward.

Two things..

1) The stated reason they were leaving to the future was to escape Control. However, control was destroyed BEFORE they left. So couldn’t they have just stayed? That bugged me from first viewing, and is the only major fault I have with the finale.

The second one is less a real problem, but more of just an observation.

2) If you ever watch the show and actually pay attention to the opening titles… There are 19 people in the titles that have the word “Prouducer” after their name. I mean, isn’t that a lot? Seems like a bit of “too many cooks in the kitchen”.

The crew of discovery didn’t know if control was truly dead, it had copied itself before multiple times.

So they went to the future to escape hypothetical copies of it, which wouldn’t work on account of how a computer program could simply wait for them to show up. But then also, they took Control (in the form of what was left of Leland) with them when they went?!? The odds of the Leland remnants being fully neutralized and/or contained seem infinitesimal to me; why wouldn’t it to them?

There’s no making sense of any of that.

I stopped trying to make sense of it 10 minutes after the finale lol. I’m not going to even bother with it anymore. It got them to go forward again, no matter how convoluted, I’m just happy about that.

If Leland is really dead and Control is wiped out for good, fine.

“I stopped trying to make sense of it 10 minutes after the finale lol. I’m not going to even bother with it anymore. It got them to go forward again, no matter how convoluted, I’m just happy about that. ”

Tiger, isn’t that exactly the sentiment we had after season 1? It didn’t make any sense, thank god its over, let’s look forward to the promises of the next season (Pike/Spock then, 32nd century now). This age old adage comes to mind: fool me once…

Well yeah, true lol. But I HATED the first season finale. It is still one of the worst Trek season finales IMO. The ONLY ones I think that was worse than that was TNG’s Shades of Grey and Enterprise These are the Voyages, which IS the worst season and series finale. To be clumped with those shows how much I hated it. But I was excited seeing the Enterprise so that saved it a little bit. Season 2 finale wasn’t as bad and had some great moments in it, but it was too nonsensical and enough plotholes big enough for a galaxy class starship to warp through, but I wasn’t bored at least. And it was cool to see the Enterprise in action. ;)

But if people hated last season too I can’t blame them for being cynical about season 3 of course, but I still thought it was better than season 1.

“There are 19 people in the titles that have the word “Prouducer” after their name. I mean, isn’t that a lot? Seems like a bit of “too many cooks in the kitchen”.”

They gotta spend those 8 million per episode on something, right? Clearly they are not spending it on writers ;)

Uhm, VS several of the executive and co producers are the writers.

And a number of them are legacy…

The situation seems to have gotten out of hand but it’s determined by industry norms.

“Uhm, VS several of the executive and co producers are the writers.”

Alright! My point was they should spend that stupendous amount of money on quality writers and writing opposed to whatever they are spending it on now ;)

Everything you watched in the season finale was happening at a rapid pace, and while control WAS neutralized, it wasn’t until Discovery was on approach to the wormhole that Empress Georgio reported that control was dead. Not enough time to stop what had already occurred within the predestination paradox. Discovery HAD to complete the circle- No matter what.
Secondly, the “19” producers that are listed in the opening credits are those who brought something to the concept, and creation of the series. The majority of which do not work on the show, but receive credit from the beginning, such as Rod Roddenberry, Nick Myers, and others. These guys are CBS producers and are also on the advisory board if I’m not mistaken. Besides, if people didn’t think it was worth every penny it cost they wouldn’t watch it. I only watch it in- season, but that doesn’t stop me from sending my $10 bucks a month to help support the show. I like having the control of withholding my loot if I don’t like it. If that’s what it takes to get this quality of Star Trek- I’d pay even more.

I don’t think Nick Meyer has anything to do with this show or CBS anymore. That was just in first season. Rod Roddenberry I forgot that guy was alive. ;)

Roddenberry’s and Meyer’s purpose of involvement was to buy street cred with fans, and nothing else. Pretty sure of that. Just remember how much they milked Meyers’ involvement in particular in marketing…

It’s still sad with all the Meyer fanfare, the guy wasn’t even allowed to write one script. I was really excited when I heard he was coming on. Of course I was also really excited when I heard Fuller was making the show and we know how that turned out. So maybe its best they all left when they did. ;)

More Tribbles, as I said, the credits don’t make a lot of sense to anyone outside of the industry, they certainly aren’t intended to speak to the audience.

I’m not sure why so much priority on titles is given to people who don’t have a significant ongoing role and executive producer isn’t informative at this point.

Several major production executives are only credited after the episodes. Guest starring characters are buried at the end on the minor character pages if they happen to be Canadian (e.g. Hannah Spear) and don’t have sufficient ranking in SGA.

Further if creating a series rates Executive Producer credit (as opposed to ‘created by’ as in the past), why isn’t Kirsten Beyer to be listed as one for the Picard series?

Ok, this is according to the media release about the Picard show, but it really stuck out.

Kirsten Beyer held the pen for the initial concept treatment that sold Patrick Stewart: it was publicly stated to be ‘her baby’. She also was in the room to break the first season.

This has the air of Hollywood hierarchy, or sexism or something.

If Kurtzman is really pressing for diversity behind the camera, I hope that this is corrected in the credits and future publicity.

It appears that Picard will be the second Trek series with a woman as a creator (after Voyager). This should be getting profile.

Getting a producer credit doesn’t necessarily mean you’re involved in the day-to-day decisions with the show. It’s essentially a pay raise when you’ve hit the ceiling of the writer pay scale. Like, “this is the most we can pay you as a writer on the show, but here’s another job title too so you’ll get more money.” Very common in the industry.

(2) Too many cooks stirring the pot.

There is plenty of space to accommodate great talent. Meyer is pure talent. Tiger2 is right. Hope they give him at least one script in the upcoming season.

TV is a team thing. There are people who work well in teams and there are people who work better alone. Maybe Meyer is not one of the former. He also had a good understanding of the TOS characters, but I am not convinced he has a good understanding for the Star Trek universe an sich.

Ah, the good old team thing. That’s what the sociopaths at the top keep telling their underlings to keep everyone in line. “And now let’s make a compromise. Let’s do what I say!” ;)

I suspect that the number of listed producers will be paired down significantly for season 3 now that they’ve settled into a team to move the series forward. There were a lot of unintended moving pieces in season 1 and season 2.

I‘m happy that they put Season 3 in the future but I‘m a little worried that that will somehow affect the Picard show in terms of new canon restrictions.

No canon restrictions. STD events already happened for TNG. (^_^)

I totally agree. DSC zooming forward so far now risks any attempts at universe-wide peril in the Picard series having no gravitas. To quote Soran – “The predator has no teeth”

You could argue very well that always raising the stakes doesn’t make for a better story. Claiming the whole universe to be at risk doesn’t make the audience more involved.
They have lots of opportunities to create suspense in the Picard show without thinking about the consequences 800 years later on Discovery.

My general impression with Discovery is that it’s not been planned or properly researched, but it’s just been made up as they went.

The comeback of Star Trek after ENT has basically focused in creating Star-Trek-soundbits (Klingons! Spock! The Enterprise!) in order to possibly attract an audience familar only with some of the ‘big names’ of the Star Trek lore.

In time, the unexpected backlash of the more traditional Star Trek audience has forced the writers to backpedal on at least some of their choices and come up with the jump into the future which I don’t believe was planned in advance. They cannot undo the Michael Burnham-Spock family relation, but they can undo the spore drive (also pending the tardigrade lawsuit) and the whole pre-TOS premise, and so thay have.

I think that’s why Kurtzman has been pushing for season 3 to be at least arced out and main plot figured out in detail before they begin shooting. Previous show runners didn’t run things that way and it showed (considering they had to redo the catherdral windows so many times because they started production before the final twists and such were written).

They need to focus on making good Star Trek

They already are.

Whether or not I tune in for season three will depend on reviews here, frankly, and whether they can turn Burnham into a likeable, relatable character. And of course, the writing has to be better. They sky is the limit now, time for some real original sci-fi. Now that they’re done using classic characters to boost viewer interest, I hope they find a way to make this crew, this ship a destination to watch. At least they’re out of the pre-TOS era, which I find the most gratifying. I’m going to look at season three as another start for the show, and probably will never go back and look at the first two seasons again. Well, maybe the Pike/Enterprise parts.

Been absent from around here a while, but here’s my own thoughts on these latest DISCOVERY show musings – and for the purposes of full disclosure, I’m first and foremost a fan of the original TOS show and TOS movie portions of the Star Trek franchise.

After the disappointment of the ENTERPRISE show, I was really hoping that DISCOVERY would offer a more satisfying lead-in to the TOS show’s characters and settings for me. It was certainly flashy-looking in certain places, but it just had too many dubious elements I disliked from the start – I won’t list them all, but the whole ‘spore drive/tardigrade/twirly ship’ aspects topped the list of what grated me the most – which no amount of ‘course redirections’ for the second season could salvage.

Despite that, I’ll certainly check out DISCOVERY’s eventual third season also, purely out of a nostalgic fascination about what it’s writers will come up with next…but this particular show will always remain a ‘watch once only’ curiosity for me. (I’m currently flipping between whether to continue inluding it into my own ‘head-canon’ as being ‘alternate universe’ shenanigans to the ‘prime Trek universe’, or just disregard it as worthless ‘Expanded Universe’ fluff altogether!)

However, as far any future Star Trek ‘spin-offs/reboots/re-imaginings’ go, there were certainly things about DISCOVERY that I liked enough to pique my interest in something related – I would absolutely love to see a show featuring some stand-alone episode stories involving further PIKE/SPOCK/ENTERPRISE adventures, as I think Anson Mount and Ethan Peck would be a winning combination, given their stirling work on DISCOVERY – in fact, I would have much preferred that kind of concept from the outset rather than the overly dark storyline which DISCOVERY served up, which I certainly wouldn’t let my younger kids watch. And yes I know it was meant to have a more ‘adult’ tone, but still.

On the other hand, I could do without the proposed SECTION 31 show whatsever. Sure, I’ll tune in to see what they come up with, but I have a sneaking suspicion that it will end up being a very convoluted show indeed. Mainly, I’ll be curious to see how much they neuter Philippa Georgiou away from the tendencies she originally had as ‘Emperor of the Terran Empire’.

As far as the PICARD show goes, I hold up more hope of something interesting along the way with that, whether ‘Picard’ himself ends up being the most front-and-centre character or not. While I’m non-plussed about the DISCOVERY ship and crew continuing in a future setting, I’m hoping that this particular character in a future setting is a worthy addition to the franchise.

And lastly, while I liked the actors in the disappointing ‘Kelvin Timeline’ movies well enough, I won’t be too despondent if they don’t get a further instalment onscreen. I do welcome the ‘Tarantino-inspired’ storyline for a future big-screen adventure however, but dearly hope he ends up directing it himself, if that’s the case. I’d love to see what production design elements he would end up choosing for that, rather than what someone else chooses. It might be disastrous, or it might end up GREAT…but if there’s to be any swearing in his script, then I’d rather it came from him rather than ‘Tilly’s character at least.

Oh, and importantly…can we please get some improved intro. title sequences and music for these upcoming shows, thanks.

Music as in intro music or episode music? I really only like the intro to the title credits theme but the music throughout the episodes have been OUTSTANDING!

@ PEB – Specifically, I’m hoping the upcoming shows are blessed with ‘main’ themes and title sequences which grab you instantly compared to what DISCOVERY ended up with. It’s pretty weak sauce i reckon. Luckily, the show is just a part of my overall Netfiix package here in the U.K., and I usually just skipped it’s intro. graphics when I stuck it on – whereas I normally watch the entire intro. main titles on other shows with a more memorable hook overall.

But I agree that the rest of the music throughout the show was pretty good.

“We have never seen a totally serialized Star Trek.”

Ahem. Perhaps Ms. Kadin would care to re-watch Ira Stephen Behr’s seasons of DS9. Or just see the new documentary. ;)