Get A First Glimpse Of Patrick Stewart In ‘Star Trek: Picard’

All people want is just an acknowledgement. Thats all! Once they did, people had no problem showing other uniforms. You notice they did the same thing for Discovery. They showed Pike in the TOS uniform and then they gave him a Discovery one and no one said a single thing about it later. Thats ALL they had to do in season one and it would’ve been no problem. I have said this many times in the past.

And here is a thought, if you truly feel everything about TOS is ugly and outdated and want to start new, again, fine, then R-E-B-O-O-T it and do whatever you want. Once you connect to the existing timeline, then people expect consistency of some sort. If you don’t want consistency, then make your own timeline. I have said that once or twice in the past as well. ;)

This is also why going into the 32nd century is a great call! Should’ve did it in season one.

A visual reboot only makes it more confusing and doesn’t satisfy a lot of fans, which they have all realize now. And why season 2 (at least in my opinion) seems to have gotten more fanfare because of the changes they should’ve did in first season.

That’s fine, but it seemed more mixed overall though and why they brought season 2 closer to canon. Giving Klingons hair for example was just a no-brainer.

Agreed PEB. I still think this team is far from perfect but I liked nearly all the changes they made in season 2. Fuller just went too far off the reservation for some fans. But I can certainly understand others truly liked those changes as well.

And I will say what I’ve said a thousand times now, if they called it a reboot maybe more people could’ve gotten on board with them. But to put it in the same iconic timeline as TOS and change everything that made it iconic was a huge mistake.

Well, of course it was lol. They had to convince people who turned away from Discovery early on to give it another shot and this was the solution I guess. But I objected to a lot of it early on. I thought it was too much fan service turning it into the Pike and Spock hour, but I changed my mind when the season started and was on board for the rest of it. For the most part it was done really well and why people are now begging for a Pike show which is nothing but fan service in itself.

“Sure, they could pile two wigs onto every guest star and female officer; they could have gone with the velour uniforms from The Cage, but neither would look really good today. ”

I hope this does not mean you are a member of the “absolute” crowd. Those who think it’s either 99% new like what Discovery did or they MUST recreate the original look down to the very last string of fabric because such an attitude is absurd. There is zero reason why they couldn’t just update the original look to make it feel like it belonged in that time frame. This is not an absolute one or the other.

Because most prequels don’t do ‘visual reboots’ UNLESS its a full on reboot. Most prequels from Star Wars to Harry Potter usually bend over backwards to make their universe conform to what the previous one look like. Just for fun, can you tell me any recent prequels that did a ‘visual reboot’ but still part of the original universe? This isn’t done very often. Either you pull a Batman Begins or a Casino Royale and just start completely over or you create a story where the setting is far removed to the original show that it can still just be its own thing even if it is technically a prequel like Caprica tried to do.

So, no this isn’t surprising. There are people TODAY who still can’t decide if the Kelvin movies takes place in the prime universe or not and those been around a decade. Are you surprised that others are convinced Discovery also takes place in a different universe if it looks like nothing of the prior universe?

But I don’t disagree with you that much, I think most get it just fine, but then a lot of those who do get it STILL don’t like it. Now do I think its a big enough deal they have to send the ship off 900 years into the future? Uh, no lol. In fact all they had to do was what they were doing in season 2 and simply bring stuff closer to canon like the uniforms, Klingon hair, the D-7, Constitution type bridges and by next season I think people would’ve moved on.

But THEY decided to reboot the show in a new timeline, no one said they had to do that. I’m not complaining though. ;)

Jack I’m speaking for the people who DID feel this why and hence why they made these changes in the second season, that’s it. A lot of fans don’t mean everybody or even the majority but let’s just enough, clearly.

And I think it would be arrogant if I assume they made all those changes just based off of my posts and complaints alone, but I would be flattered lol. And they said over and over again they heard the fan complaints over the canon and made changes due to that, so I’m not exactly saying anything left field here. People complained (bitterly), Klingons without hair was one of the biggest, they took notice and made proper changes. Not the first Star Trek to do that by the way and certainly won’t be the last.

And I will say this again (and this is strictly me talking) if you don’t want TOS fan service, then DON’T put the show in the TOS era. You ONLY create expectations for it. Or, for the thousand time, make it a reboot and make it clear its doing its own thing. Once they said it was the prime timeline but wanted it to feel more original then they should’ve just made the show post Nemesis on day one like they are doing now. It would’ve avoided a lot of headaches.

CD… I’m with you. I consider Discovery straight a reboot in every sense. I don’t care that TPTB are telling me otherwise. I don’t care how many lights those in charge tell me there are. There are FOUR LIGHTS!

“if you truly feel everything about TOS is ugly and outdated and want to start new, again, fine, then R-E-B-O-O-T it and do whatever you want. Once you connect to the existing timeline, then people expect consistency of some sort. If you don’t want consistency, then make your own timeline. ”

This, this and more this. I’m more of a TOS guy and I would have ZERO problems with a reboot. Change everything in your reboot if that is what you want. But if you say it’s in the same era and NOT a reboot, then we need visual clues to connect it to the time they say it is in. This is really a no-brainer and I’m floored at how many have a difficult time with such a concept.

The JJ films were received fine. Some fans had issues but that was going to happen regardless. Also, it wasn’t a full on reboot. They did a pretty good job creating their own thing while placating those fans who have an issue with an actual reboot. A complete reboot for Discovery would have worked fine, save for the terrible story, writing and characters.

Just because you personally did not receive them well doesn’t mean that was the overall perception. You said something about living in a different universe?

The Kelvin films weren’t a total reboot, but a quasi-reboot. That was the other problem for fans who didn’t like it. But I also think most people liked them more than didn’t. Its mainly some of the hardcore fans that had issues with them. The general population seem to like them just fine IMO.

But for the ones who didn’t, I think many just felt his style was too far away from classical Star Trek and felt closer to Star Wars. It wasn’t just the changes or making Khan white.

But then Beyond felt a lot more like classic Trek but bombed so yeah. The Kelvin movies do have some perception problems for sure.

Beyond bombed for a lot of reasons but its not simply just bad promotion either (which was a big factor though). Even if you look at Beyond’s second and third week B.O. it had SIGNIFICANT drops the other two films didn’t have which tells me that the word-of-mouth on the film was also non-existent. People bad mouthed STID to death on these boards but it actually still had really strong BO after the first weekend which suggest many people were either seeing it again or that others still wanted to see it.

Beyond did OK opening weekend and it only got worse fast. I don’t think it got a lot of repeat business by the people who did actually went to see it.

But yes its biggest problem was both bad promotion and PR all around.

But Joe, I just made this point, IF that was just about disappointment in STID, why did that movie have fewer drops in subsequent weeks of its release where as Beyond dropped much harder after its opening weekend? It seem like it would be the opposite and it was STID that was losing a huge audience share because the word of mouth was so poor. I don’t think its that black and white.

Yes I do believe there are certainly people who hated STID that didn’t go see Beyond but I don’t remotely believe that was the main problem why it did so poorly. I think most of Beyond’s problems rested with Beyond itself.

No. *SOME* fans crucified them. Most did not.

Well, the early uniform (one-piece) looked like they were from the 70s and dated when they appeared in the late 80s.

The big shouldered ones that came in later were a better accommodation to 80s and early 90s sensibilities.

But how they look to today’s 30 year olds is a good question.

I agree with you. I love those original series movie uniforms. Well not the uniforms from TMP

Interesting. I found the DS9/Voyager uniforms seemed to lean to the workmanlike or crew, rather than professional.

But Trek has eschewed having different uniforms for different work situations.

Not all that different from current military. Everyone at HQ is in the day professional uniform, everyone in a combat zone wears combats regardless of rank or role.

But I’ve liked how Discovery has field versions with flack vests, and is using environmental suits more regularly. It’s a bit of realism that strengthens the show for me. I always found it hard to buy that TOS and TNG uniforms were robust enough for the field … especially given how frequently Jim Kirk’s uniforms got ripped lol.

I still don’t like the Discovery uniforms. They look too much like marching band uniforms and waaaaaay too busy. I’m getting a bit more use to them but I just like the more streamline look of the DS9/VOY uniforms. But everyone is different.

I actually think the best uniforms are the Enterprise uniforms. They actually look like something I can see people wearing today in a crew setting.

I also marched in a band in HS, and the DIS uniforms looked similar to ours lol.

Enterprise uniforms definitely looked more contemporary than the others, but its a lot closer to our time too so I didn’t have an issue with it.

Jack, if I recall Archer had gold trim on his uniform. If they followed TNG would his not be red?

You have a point with the layered jackets and vests in the post TMP movies. It did feel like a bit much but they did LOOK damn good on screen. Which really is the bottom line.

Yeah, the DS9/VOY uniforms were good. They felt more like a jumpsuit you’d see an astronaut in. I still prefer the TNG redesign, but the DS9/VOY look is still a very nice one. It looked practical.

Exactly Legate Damar!

TMP uniform was the direction GR wanted to go because he read something about what clothes of the future would look like. Side note, because of the nature of the TMP pajamas they wore, they had an issue with underwear lines and went through efforts to remove them.

Then he was responsible for TNG and it looks like his TNG uniforms were born from the TMP pjs. That’s one of the reasons I was never a huge fan of their onesies. But, it did not deter from the better episodes of the show. I honestly do not consider them to be all THAT important.

Knowing Starfleet, they probably did change MANY times.

DS9 had the similar cadet uniforms.

Not everyone. Chief O’Brien was enlisted.

Honestly I couldn’t tell you. All the real world military ranking stuff I learned came from Star Trek lol. But there were other enlisted people. The fourth season DS9 episode, Starship Down, also highlighted other enlisted officers who worked under O’Brien.

But Star Trek, its always been mostly about senior officers or at least the bridge crew, with the exception of the doctor and engineer.

Yeah thats fine of course. But I’ll be 100% honest too, I never knew there was even a difference on TOS between regulars officers and enlisted for most of my life lol. TOS they I just assumed if anyone was dressed differently it was because of their job on the ship and not really their position. And its not like we ever got an episode getting to know an enlisted character so I never ever even thought about it, because they weren’t acknowledged outside of seeing them in the background.

Star Trek has never made the difference that big of a deal in general. DS9 is the only show that even discussed it AFAIK and like I said that was pretty briefly and it was mainly with O’Brien, which you guys have mentioned probably been retconned over the years with that position. But with all the shows he’s the only main character that even was enlisted.

I’m guessing on Discovery they have enlisted people too, but I couldn’t tell you which is which.

But that’s my entire point, its just an assumption because no one ever took two minutes out of an episode to explain it. They very well could be enlisted, but it was never an important element in Star Trek. Its about the bridge crew and senior officers 99% of the time. Everyone else is just background people most of the time not counting DS9 since that took place on a station and actually had civilian and non-Starfleet officers as main characters.

ML31, He had a special pip on his collar that was not Ensign-Captain pip.

I theorize that O’Brien was a Warrant Officer, but yeah, it was VERY weird. Maybe he got a field promotion or went to the Academy for Officer Candidate School once he was a Chief, but then why did he wear a different insignia?

I wonder if fans torture Colm Meaney with this question at conventions

I was starting to wonder if “Chief” wasn’t his rank or title but rather his nickname!