Watch: Alex Kurtzman And The Cast of ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Talk About Captain Picard

CBS recently released another Star Trek: Discovery promotional video, this time leveraging the news about the Star Trek: Picard, with co-executive producer Alex Kurtzman, and actors Mary Wiseman (Tilly), and Wilson Cruz (Culber), weighing in on “What Makes Patrick Stewart’s Captain Picard So Iconic?”

Kurtzman is of course the overseer of the Trek on TV franchise, and involved in producing the upcoming Picard series, so it’s interesting to see his thoughts on the character:

Captain Picard in some ways is the ultimate captain, he’s the ultimate captain because of his incredible decency, because of his incredible thoughtfulness, because he was always human — fundamentally — in the choices that he made even when the pressure was really really high.

Mary Wiseman gushes about Sir Patrick Stewart and his acting abilities:

Patrick Stewart, he’s just one of our greatest living actors, it’s so cool the coming together of [his] training and old school Royal Shakespeare Company gravitas. And the combination of that and this sort of mythological franchise that is Star Trek coming together that is so special.

Wilson Cruz touches on Picard as a leader and being the ultimate captain:

The Picard character, Patrick Stewart’s portrayal of it, came with such confidence, it was the kind of confidence that was earned. He never demanded respect from his crew, they gave it to him freely because of who he was and how he treated them. We root for him, and we’re willing to go on whatever ride he takes us on because of that. He, for me, was the ultimate captain, the ultimate leader. I think right now in this moment we are looking anywhere and everywhere for true signs of leadership, and I think Picard is a great model for that.

Rick Berman looking forward to Star Trek: Picard

Former Trek franchise captain Rick Berman took to twitter to lend his support to the upcoming TV show during all the buzz from the upfront presentation last week.


Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access. It airs in Canada on Space and streams on CraveTV. It is available on Netflix everywhere else.

Star Trek: Picard is expected to be released in late 2019. It will be available on CBS All Access in the USA. Space and CraveTV in Canada, and on Amazon Prime Video for the rest of the world.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard news at TrekMovie.

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Nice little clip. I’ve got no doubts Stewart/Picard is a continued inspiration to the people working on Trek. I certainly hope so!

Alec Grimes

Just don’t screw it up. And on another subject…even though it pissed many off…Game of Thrones went out on high. Loved it !
Now…can Trek do something like that ?

Legate Damar

Well, hopefully it won’t have to worry about a series finale for a very long time.

kentrek

Cruz knows how to put together a good sentence.

Norton

I agree. He’s just rubbish at putting together a Trek series.

DIGINON

Cruz is just an actor. He doesn’t write the show.

Michael Hall

Very much looking forward to this, and my sincere best wishes to the producers, cast and crew that they don’t screw it up. As the last few weeks have conclusively shown, there’s no rage like nerd-rage.

VZX

I know, I am scared. I just wish there were some TNG-era writers involved, maybe Ron Moore or Ira Steven Behr.

A34

No way, Star Trek needs fresh blood.

kmart

smart blood trumps fresh blood

Tiger2

Agreed. If the Discovery writers were as good as these writers I don’t think people would be asking for them to come back.

A34

You don’t remember all the terrible TNG episodes that aired? People can only recall a handful of good TNG episodes. Remember that the one with Crusher and that candle?

Tiger2

No one is saying there aren’t bad episodes, but there are many iconic ones they have written which I feel nothing of Discovery has gotten close to maybe outside of 3 or 4 episodes so far. Although most of those did come from season 2 so thats a plus its improving.

But Discovery needs something more than what’s it doing. To be fair they haven’t written any real cringe worthy episodes (IMO), but most just feel so mediocre. There was some genuinely good ones in season 2 but still nothing that raises the bar IMO (but New Eden at least felt like some of the best of classic Trek again).

Which is why I’m excited they are moving to the 32nd century. Maybe with a new premise and direction the show can raise its bar and inspire since the 23rd century story lines felt plodding. Won’t miss that century at all frankly (although will miss Pike…for now). At least not with Discovery. So we’ll see, maybe next season will put the show on a new level that will make me put in the realm of TNG.

TG47

Some fresher blood certainly.

Kirsten Beyer was writing Trek-lit for more than a decade before she joined the writers room.

But as we’ve discussed previously, the Relaunch Trek novelists have worked together like a writers room, and come up with long arcs and longform storytelling where the 90s writers and showrunners felt it had all been done.

They accepted the boundaries of tie-ins and repeatedly came up with stories I would have loved to see on the screen for every Trek era.

I’m very much cautiously optimistic about Picard…

…and would very much like to see what would happen if some of the others like David Mack, Dayton Ward, Una McCormack or James Swallow could be pulled in to help create a new series and get it on track.

Tiger2

LOVED their and the other writers story idea of the imagined season 8 premiere of DS9 from the documentary. They all came up with it in a day and a great reminder why DS9 is so damn good. They still got it!

Would love to see them back on Star Trek.

Locutus

I wonder what Rick Berman has been shown of the series. I respect his insight even if I grew a little tired of his formulaic Star Trek over the years.

Legate Damar

Has he been shown anything, or is he just basing his view on the same information that we’ve all heard?

Sam

The latter I’m sure.

Tiger2

He and Stewart are still close friends so they probably have talked about the show but I doubt he’s seen anything in terms of footage.

DIGINON

Even if they talked is Stewart allowed to tell him any more than he is allowed to tell anybody else, though?

Tiger2

NDAs are obviously pretty serious but people still talk to each other all the time. Think of how many times confirmed rumors from the internet of a show or movie CONSTANTLY slip out to the public even when NDAs are in place. The Force Awakens was suppose to be the most secretive movie in history at the time and yet 90% of that movie’s plot was leaked months before it came out. It just was mixed in with a lot of falsehoods too so we didn’t know how much was true until after the fact. But people are human, they are still going to tell friends and family things even if they don’t shout it to the public. If it makes it out to fan sites clearly people are talking.

Now all that said I have no idea if they have talked about the show obviously. But no it wouldn’t remotely surprise me either if they have. I’m pretty sure most of the TNG players know but simply can’t say they do.

GorillaPotRoast

Anyone know there is a non region locked copy of the clip?

Gnow

+1. For whatever reason out there do they really have to do this :/

JRT!

Yeah,screw this region locked crap!! Here’s the clip for EVERYONE! lol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tb85ErAN2E

You can find almost anything on yt,lol!

Gnow

Thanks. It doesn’t appear on my search probably because of the language thing.

JRT!

Most likely. I just searched for the title in the video and just assumed this was the same thing since it had the same pic. Kinda logical,lol! And seeing those clips from TNG just made me wanna go home and watch a few episodes,lol!

SomebodySomewhere

The leaked tease looks terrible. Objectively terrible. Like an insurance advert.

Captain Danno

I watched the leaked clip on YouTube. There was just something about it that didn’t seem right to me, and now you hit it on the head! It did remind me of a commercial for Geico, ha! And while I like the style of the uniform it didn’t seem to fit the actor very well around the neck area. Of course it was literally only 4 seconds, so maybe we shouldn’t judge it too harshly just yet! And I think I read somewhere that maybe it isn’t an actual clip from the show but just something they put together for the upfront? Overall I’m really pumped about this. So hoping that they execute on the lessons learned from Discovery!

Tezna

Yeah, I think it was just a quick clip they made for the investor meeting. Very little would of been filmed by then.

A34

They were on location filming. Why would you think they wouldn’t have anything to show for it?

Tiger2

And only 20 mins from my house!! It feels so good to have Trek filming in my backyard again like most of my life.

Michael

I doubt the creative team had anything to do with that 2 second clip. It was literally weaved in with other CBS shows for investors/advertisers. Yes, it was all off. But I think it speaks volumes that it wasn’t officially released with the title card. That clip wasn’t for the show’s promotion.

Vulcan Soul

I had the theory that the uniforms look so (ahem) “basic” because these are all extras in a seconds-long throwaway scene, extras that are only visible in the (blurry) background, but the now leaked video throws that out of the window, with the uniform in “full glory” close up by virtue of the guy who asks Picard “May I have your name please sir”.

While it would be troubling and somewhat hypocritical to outrightly reject these uniforms after Discovery’s were wrong in the other way (looking insanely expensive, over-detailed, clashing with its canon timeframe and still like something unnecessarily retro-futuristic, “Zap Brannigan” style), I can’t fathom why they would save up pennies on this highly visible element.

I have no doubt this show has a much lower budget for production values than Discovery, given that it does not require as much SFX focus (being “psychological” and “grounded”) and no doubt Stewart’s salary is that of several Discovery cast members combined, and finally, the STYLE of the uniforms is totally OK and in line with the 24th century shows that came before, but why would they make them look so cheap, so loose, like something out of a fan film parody that makes The Orville’s uniform look like masterstrokes? If they wanted to go with something recognizable yet more advanced-looking, they should have gone with the “Star Trek Online” uniforms all the way.

So I sincerely hope these ARE cadet uniforms in the end and we will see something more carefully designed and sophisticated-looking for starship crews out there.

TG47

VS I don’t think that the design is basically bad…

But I totally agree that cut and fit are crucial for the boldly coloured uniforms.

In fact, Gersha Phillips has said precisely that about the Enterprise uniforms for TOS in the feature recently posted on the official site.

She talks about Anson Mount making sure he was in shape to put the yellow-gold jacket back on for the final two episodes. She says that even though the cut is the same as the blue Discovery uniforms, the yellow shows everything.

More Troubles More Dribbles

It may signify the federation has become more lackadaisical since the Klingon’s have been domesticated, the Borg are assimilated without resistance by the Calar, (Albeit in the books…)and the Romulans are seemingly fragmented- at best.
When government becomes over-bloated you start to see waste, and lack haste. Maybe the Romulan people are slowly dying off, and the federation, nor anyone is doing anything to save them. The home world managed a conglomerate of colony worlds, but w/out the management and stability of Romulas, the colonies would crumble, and the ones that didn’t would not have the resources to offer much assistance. Section 31 would love to see the federations long-time enemy fall to attrition. No way is Picard going to let that happen.

A34

If Picard sold you insurance you would buy it.

TG47

If Picard sold insurance, I’d need to seriously consider it. 😉

JRT!

LOL!!

Tiger2

I mean who wouldn’t trust that policy if Picard was the one selling it?

Mauricio

Considering what he did in Discovery, a series without the least logic, any project of his is worrisome.

Yeah. I’m sure it risks earning many millions of dollars for CBS, just like Discovery. Kurtzman should be more careful and try to get involved in some failed Star Trek projects, like Star Trek: Nemesis…

kmart

Sal,
If dollars are your final arbiter, shouldn’t you be on an MCU/James Cameron site?

Mauricio

Some people like sh-t, no doubt about that.

Someone has to be really arogant to equal “I don’t like it” with “It it shit.” But it is clear you fit the bill. ;-)

Georgiou’s Sass.

Well said, Salvador.

Mauricio

As it´s clear that you´re an as-s…

Reinhardt

it´s his opinion, why can´t you handle it ? I don´t care about Disco either.

ML31

” I’m sure it risks earning many millions of dollars for CBS, just like Discovery. ”

Has it, though?

TG47

ML31 Figuring out a return on investment in a case like this is pretty challenging.

CBS execs have said the fees paid by Netflix alone have covered out-of-pocket production costs, so in that sense it’s ‘making money’.

Certainly CBS is telling its shareholders that Discovery has played a large part in developing a subscription base for CBSAA.

So, it’s not just a straight return on dollars spent to produce Discovery. Investment in Discovery is building the value of the capital of CBSAA.

But…there is also the rate of return on the intangible value of the Trek franchise itself.

Since there hadn’t been any new shows in a long time, the intangible value was eroding.

Whether or not Kurtzman and CBS have maximized the potential value of the franchise remains up for debate, but has it increased due to a new product? – Very likely.

Pretty sure. Consider it was paid for in the first season by Netflix alone — Les Moonves said that to the stakeholders, so it is either true or he could go to jail for lying. Consider further that Discovery brought 1 million subscribers (conservative estimate) for 3 months only, in the cheaper plan. That is 1 million x 3 x 6 bucks. That’s 18 million dollars. And we’re not talking about licencing, the Canadian deal for exhibition, subscribers that stood through both chapters 1 and 2, and subscribers that stood on after that. We’re not taking into account the fact that at least some of those pay the 10 bucks’s subscription. And we’re not talking season 2, which Netflix also co-financed (we don’t know at what level, but I doubt the contract would allow them to go soft on this after just one season), and brought the total number of subscribers at the 4 million level. Of course, things are more complex than this. But there’s no possible spin on numbers that can make Discovery a money-loser, with Netflix backing it up. And Picard maybe even more of a secure bet, with Sir Patrick’s star power and Amazon paying what certainly was a ton of money to have it.

TG47

Hey Salvador Nogueria, I agree that it’s hard to see how Discovery could be losing money or making a negative return.

But finance is more complex than that.

We don’t know whether Discovery is making a higher rate of return than lower risk shows on the main CBS network, which is a consideration for shareholders.

And it sounds like we’re on the same page in understanding that part of the return on Discovery is its contributions to CBSAA’s subscriber base as well as to maintaining the intangible value of the Trek franchise.

So when all the dimensions of the return are accounted for, Discovery may be doing quite well but those are numbers that will likely only be available in the long run.

ML31

Salvador, I do understand the role Netflix played in Season 1 the general public pretty much only knows what was said in the media. That said, these streaming organizations have been traditionally very tight lipped when it comes to not only what is popular on their streaming service but also when it comes to their finances. Is it making millions for CBS? None of us really knows. It could. It also may not be. There are a lot of factors to consider here. Consider that CBS did announce that their Twilight zone premiere was their highest streamed program to date. That’s one thing and there are other factors here.

BTW… Moonves will NEVER go to jail for making misleading public statements. Ever. There is nothing illegal about that. If so, nearly every politician ever would be in jail today.

You can’t lie at a stockholder meeting. You can be misleading, yes. But you can’t state false facts, such as “Discovery is profitable before even airing.” This can’t be read any other way.

And although streaming companies (and CBSAA) keep their data close to their chests, there are some public statements. For example: Netflix announced that Discovery was their #5 show last April in the UK, one of their top three markets outside of USA and Canada. And CBSAA said it reached about 4 million subscribers with the start of Discovery’s S2. They don’t say how many people watch the show, but that metric is not as relevant for streaming services. They usually go for the “first watch”, or the show the subscriber goes to right after signing up. The other hot stat is number of subscribers. Considering CBSAA, given the lack of other shows, Discovery is a success, no matter what. There’s no way to spin it differently. I’d love to hear someone presenting a case in which Discovery looks to be failing, in spite of all I’ve mentioned. It would be a fun read. :-)

ML31

First, there is no law that requires one to tell the truth to stockholders. And you absolutely can make any comment, misleading or not, in a public statement. Up to the point where someone can prove it did personal harm to them. That is called “slander”.

And while it appears to be true that CBS admitted they had reached 4 million subscribers between Showtime and CBSAA, that in and of itself does not necessarily equate to Star Trek making money for them. It should be noted that after an initial announcement last year about subscriber numbers they were curiously silent for months after. They seem to only make such announcements when things are going great. And I would expect nothing less. The takeaway here is that neither you or I know for sure. We are making assumptions and theories based on what little can be gleaned from the information presented. So to say CBS is making “millions” is a pure guess. And not even a good one, in my estimation. They MIGHT be. But I wouldn’t be so sure. Even Netflix isn’t making hardly anything from their streaming service.

More Troubles More Dribbles

I’m surprised that we’ve been given so little in regards to supporting cast members of this “Iconic” series at this point. I’m curious as to who-if any- are the bad guys. Is he taking on the Fed’s again, like ST: Insurrection? Whatever the premise- It’s HUGE! He wouldn’t be doing it otherwise. He don’t need the loot, nor the fame.

More Troubles More Dribbles

I would love to see some sets (Other than the location shot we already chewed on…) It’s okay to keep some secrets, but anything that can promote the shows progress is good publicity.
It’s like watching an amusement park being constructed from a distance. You see all the things to come, wondering how much fun you will have when it opens. It builds anticipation.

Marty

The clip of Picard’s response to the question of who he is, and the camera work employed, is sufficient enough for me to never watch this. He was tedious before, now he’s on his last legs, forget it.

Luke Montgomery

Troll alert.

Marty

Oh please.

Soren

You’re writing a show off based on a 3 second clip? Ffs!

Marty

No. I’m writing it off on the basis that Picard was a boring character in a sanitised and anaemic show 25 years ago.

TG47

Uhm Marty, as I replied before, you’ve made it more than clear that TNG wasn’t your favourite Trek product.

And I noted that if one of the other new shows is something you would watch, CBS’s franchise strategy will be successful.

At this point, it seems fair to observe that we’re not hearing about what you’d like to see in a Trek show and don’t recall your saying which series you do like.

So, it seems really legitimate to ask what your point is other than trolling…

Mark Calcagno

Exactly, and that’s what I said to him in a previous thread.

Marty, you’re expressing an opinion in an aggressive manner, then getting upset when people respond aggressively. You can’t get upset when you insult people’s favorite show AND they get mad at your opinion. Either is fine, but both is trolling.

Afterburn

The guy’s a grade A troll, ignore him. And no, disliking TNG does not make one a troll. ML31 has similar complaints about Picard as a character but he is able to discuss his grievances as a topic of debate, rather than angry troll ranting.

Mark Calcagno

Agreed, everyone be like ML31 and Tiger2! I don’t agree with them, but I love talking with them.

TG47

Ditto Mark Calango

I suspect that all of us have our moments where we just want to vent or rant, or let despair slip through.

But ML31 and Tiger2 are both very consistent in expressing how much they want the new era of Trek shows to be successful whatever their kudos or criticisms.

That goes a long way with me, and makes me think alot about their points … especially when I disagree.

Marty

That’s rich, you are one of the most tedious trolling halfwits in all of Trekdom. .

Mark Calcagno

I want to be angry with you, I really do, but I don’t. I’m sad for you. I hope you learn how to disagree with people without insults soon. You’re certainly making no friends here.

Marty

Bore off with your pretend virtue signalling. I have zero interest in what your tedious little brain thinks.

Mark Calcagno

That’s fine, but know you’re not a victim, no matter how hard you are trying to be.

ML31

Wow. I consider Picard to be a dull boy (except in First Contact) but even I think that’s a harsh comment.

Georgiou’s Sass.

This is incredibly unkind (and not to mention extremely ageist). How somebody can rationally write off a ten episode series based off a few seconds of early footage baffles me. No doubt however, that you will in fact watch the series and you will let us know how much you dislike it.

Marty

I can feel your virtue signalling indignation from here.

Georgiou’s Sass.

It’s a real shame that you are not willing to engage in rational discussion and instead resort to abuse and rudeness. I won’t make the same mistake with you again.

Still, I feel no ill will towards you, only disappointment. All the best.

Marty

Boring.

Tiger2

I don’t doubt anything what Kurtzman said in that clip, I heard somewhere he started out as a TNG fan first and probably why he was so adamant to make this show in the first place. So I’m really hoping we get the spirit of what TNG was even if its going to be a completely different show (which I’m all for!).

But yes I can’t blame others who feel let down by both Discovery and the Kelvin movies if they are skeptical he can pull this show off either. All I can say is just give it a chance. Maybe it will be a very different product than those others as he’s been promising. And he and CBS knows they have to get former fans on board for this to be a big hit and I think they are learning from all the mistakes they made with Discovery early on. Hopefully it will deliver a more fan pleasing product on day one.

But we’re still talking about Star Trek fans here lol. Not exactly holding my breath, but I’m staying positive about it personally for no other reason it will open the door into that era again and future shows if its a hit. And I liked what I seen in the leaked images so far. It really looks like we’re back in the TNG era again, a big plus!

TG47

Never heard about Kurtzman and TNG…

That would be an interesting shift for a someone who was a childhood fan of that other franchise…

And may explain why he has a hard time grasping the sensitivities of fans who’ve loved Trek since middle school.

But I give him credit for letting Kirsten Beyer work up the concept and for making space for Michael Chabon in the writers room.

It’s a sign of good leadership that Kurtzman has let creatives run with different concepts.

It’s had its risks and arguably it’s moments of failure, but it doesn’t sound as though this era will suffer from the kind of rigid boundaries of the Berman era.

By the way, I hope that the music for Picard is not constrained by the 90s ‘thou shalt not have melodic orchestration’ rule. I’ve really loved the rich soundscape and orchestration of Discovery.

Tiger2

I read it on another site, no idea how true it is, but I don’t think he’s been watching it since he was a kid or anything, just sound like a more casual fan of it. I guess we can have Orci clear it up for us! If you’re reading Bob, a few of us are curious. ;)

Anyway yes I think most people are more hopeful because Beyers is basically creating the show. I’ve never read her Voyager novels but I know they are extremely popular in the fanbase. And anyone who can make Voyager more liked must be a pretty good writer lol. I think if Kurtzman stays mostly hands off it may be for the better. I’m just a positive person in general (until I see something I hate and then trash it like a dog! :)) but for now I’m only hoping for the best.

And I like the music on Discovery too. I never hated the music on the other shows but I can certainly understand why others don’t. That is a big positive Discovery has for sure.

boborci

Yeah, I got him into TNG when we were in high school. He was a fan.

TG47

Thanks for sharing Bob!

And for getting Alex Kurtzman into it.

As much as I have some critiques of and questions about the new products , I really think he’s got the strategic thinking right.

By the way, I watched Star Trek (2009) with one of our middle schoolers last week. They thought it was pretty cool. And still thinks Trek is better than the other franchises.

But I’m thinking that for the kids who lock in early, it may be harder to be open to new iterations of Trek.

boborci

Interesting.

Point of 09 was to not have to be aware of Trek to get its glory. Hope new people feel the same throughout.

Tiger2

Wow, thanks for confirming it Bob! Its a small world because I got one of my friends into TNG when we were in high school as well. He had never watched a single episode of Star Trek, wouldn’t even think about watching TOS because it looked so old and campy to him. After I finally got him into trying out TNG he ended up becoming as big of a fan as I did lol. We would even go to a few of the conventions together (saw Patrick Stewart at a convention together which he still talks about since to this day Picard is still his favorite captain like mine) and watched all the shows and movies. Its fun to see a non-fan become a fan and especially when you had something to do with it.

Of course you and Kurtzman fandom actually ended up having a much bigger impact on the franchise than we did lol. We just bought a lot of merchandise. ;)

boborci

God bless you!

Chuck Abernathy

Damn, my ears! I absolutely adore her, but won’t somebody PLEASE take Ms. Wiseman aside and tell her the show is not called “Star Track”?

TG47

LOL that’s what I thought it was called when I first saw it in kindergarten…

But when I could spell and saw the titles, I had a “wait-a-minute” reaction.

AJinMoscow

Who remembers Patrick Stewart’s greatest starring role with Maisie Williams? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTROgQORCt4

Tiger2

LOL that was hilarious. It took me a few seconds to realize that was even Patrick Stewat. Thanks for that. The man is a global treasure!

Captain Danno

Agreed! And telling Simon Pegg he was marvelous in Star Wars was especially hilarious!

Tiger2

LOL and even funnier today since Pegg actually ended up in Star Wars.

Soren

Most of those clips are from season 3. I’m hoping from that they realise that this was Picard at his most august, and they model the character now more on those years than on some of the later additions. As time went on he loosened up a bit too much in my opinion.

TG47

Good point Soren.

It struck me on rewatching it.

In some ways Picard changed after he was assimilated by the Borg.

In any case, in terms of the series, the dynamic between Picard and the crew changed starting from season 4.

In the Trek-lit Relaunch TNG novels, Picard is aware that he’s never been the same after the Borg experience.

So, it will be very interesting if part of Picard’s journey is to regain that voice of centerd ethical authority.

Hairen

I want this show to succeed, but I am more than a bit worried with Kurtzman’s choices and the road he has taken Discovery into. I am hoping for well rounded and credible characters first, something that has been severely missing in Discovery: I don’t want my characters to tell me how to feel, I want to feel it by watching their stories and become involved in theuir lives.

Also, I am really hoping for some intellectual enjoyment, some discoveries, some interesting alien races and a well drafted universe. Please make it so.

Targaryn

This is the guy who directed The Mummy…
I hate to say this but I’m not holding my breath.

Georgiou’s Sass.

Kurtzman listened to the criticisms of the first series and set about correcting them over the course of the second series. He’s actually admitted to doing that. That’s very rare, I feel. I could not imagine Bryan Fuller doing that (he would likely resign from his position given his track record) or Rick Berman or Brannon Braga (who could not deviate at all from the formula perfected in TNG).

He may not be the world’s greatest screenwriter or director, but I have faith he knows what he is doing.

Tiger2

Yes, this is what I been saying all along as well Georgiou!

Kurtzman has his faults, especially on this show but I am VERY impressed of how much he has tried to make so many corrections to the show so early on. Even other Trek shows that made changes didn’t make them until their third seasons. Kurtzman acknowledged all the complaints people like me had after the first season which is a big turnaround. And he acknowledged we WEREN’T just some small vocal group and that the show was perfect in reality when you get past the whiners. Discovery actually did have fundamental issues even if others didn’t mind them. Like you said I don’t know if Fuller could’ve admitted to those mistakes and we may have had the exact same show in season two as we did in season one, which would’ve depressed me frankly.

Now I will say Discovery has the LUXURY of time the other shows didn’t have. They had literally an entire year off and only 14 episode as well, so they could really take their time to examine what needed change and act on it versus the other shows where they had maybe 4-5 months between seasons and way more episodes to make.

But I give the guy a lot of credit and why I went from mostly a critic of the show in season 1 to a fan in season 2 (although I acknowledge the show still had problems for sure). But I just wanted them to at least TRY and improve on it and they did.

And now the show is giving me something I really wanted and that is a show set beyond anything we seen before going so far into the future. Again, I have to give Kurtzman all the credit for that. He finally making a show a lot of us wanted since Voyager went off the air. A truly futuristic Trek show again where you can push the boundaries of everything. Give me all the magical tech you want, at least now a spore drive doesn’t feel as nonsensical like it did in the 23rd century timeline like it would in the 32nd century (I’m guessing everyone has a home version of one by then ;)). Now it can all blow up in his face lol, but he is NOT playing it safe and taking a real risks with the franchise again. Imagine if Enterprise took a risk like this in its third season? Maybe the show would’ve made it past five seasons.

And while I’m not super excited about Section 31 what he is doing with both Picard and now Discovery shows he wants to expand the universe and not just create a bunch of 23rd century TOS prequel clones or people always on starships. Both would’ve bored me (but I’m all for a Pike show if it happens).

But this is what Trek needs, real diversity in its settings and time periods. I’m actually excited about Star Trek again because I don’t know where any of it is going.

Georgiou’s Sass.

I want to start off my rely by saying that I am NOT aiming this at any members of the this community. My intention is NOT to single out anybody or to start a war. I am simply giving my two cents as I see it.

Sometimes I feel that Kurtzman is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Star Trek fans can be wonderfully supportive or they can be incredibly unkind. I do feel that some fans don’t WANT to give him a chance. They refuse to acknowledge the fact he instigated changes in response to criticisms. They label him a hack because of of his directorial work on The Mummy despite: a) being aware that he had no creative control due to Tom Cruise’s runaway ego and b) he also directed the Season 2 premiere which was very, very well received.

There were calls right from the moment the setting of Discovery was announced to move it beyond Nemesis and Voyager. A lot of calls. He saw to that with Season 2…. and yet those same people who advocated/demanded moving beyond the 24th century are now complaining about the move to the 32nd century. They refuse to acknowledge that Kurtzman listened to them and instead attack him, his writing style and his vision for the show. He can literally do no right by them.

When one thinks about it, it’s ugly and I suppose in a way it could be seen as cyber-bullying?

TG47

Georgiou’s Sass, you make a fair point.

Kurtzman does seem to take fan feedback seriously and makes sincere efforts to respond in action not just showrunner spin.

In fact, from what people write here on Trekmovie, it’s clear that there’s a significant group of us that participate because we feel our feedback will help improve and strengthen the shows.

But it’s true that on one hand, there are those who refuse to acknowledge this, while on the other there are those who say that Discovery has been damaged by unnecessary efforts to address issues of certain inflexible fans.

I’m hoping that with a pro marketing team from CBS, Kurtzman will have ongoing audience opinion research and focus group feedback that can provide a balanced picture of the audience and its views.

Yes, there are always voices pro and con just about everything, but without research it’s hard to know if the cons are a loud 5% of the audience or 60%.

Kieran MacDuff

“True signs of Leadership…”
AND they’re going after Trump

VZX

That’s some leap.

But since Trump represents the furthest a person can get to the principles of Star Trek, it makes sense that most talk about Star Trek is anti-Trump.

A34

Well tRUMP is scum.

MysticalDigtial

Trump is about as anti-Trek as someone can get, this should not be a surprise in any form.

Kieron McDuff

You’re right. The crew wanted to abort Troi’s Baby in “The Child”, Trump would want to save it

Wheelie

Save it and then cage it, right? It was an alien. Real humanitarian that guy.

Tiger2

Trump doesn’t care about abortion. He only hopped on that train because he knew his supporters are pro-life and so like every good politician he switched sides when it suited him. He was pro-choice all way through his sixties for pete’s sakes. He didn’t become ‘pro-life’ until he was thinking about running in 2011 against Obama. A con artist to the very end.

ML31

To be fair isn’t “con-artist” part of the job description of politician?

I’ve actually kinda been hoping to see the day when a non-politician ran for a major national office. I’m just disheartened it was… Him.

Vulcan Soul

“about as anti-Trek as someone can get”

Oh right, he didn’t start enough wars with enough casualities (“Mission accomplished”) or took credit for the murder of foreign leaders (“I came, I saw, he died”) to be considered pro-Trek AND not jail-worthy.

Oh wait…

tony

he doesn’t talk peace thats for sure, as his statements over conflict with china, iran and north korea have shown.

Georgiou’s Sass.

This is a very, very ugly sentiment I feel.

16309A

Looking forward to this. Still holding out hope for a Pike series.

TG47

I’m really hoping for a Pike series too.

I think that it could fit another niche in the franchise’s market. It’s not a total overlap with Picard.

But the media momentum is slowing down, and the petition isn’t attracting many new signatories.

I really hope that the marketing folk do their research on this one.

I suspect that a lightly serialized pre-TOS series would work really well with Pike as a positive male leader in an ensemble context. Certainly, TOS authors have shown that their are lots of possible stories despite the reported struggles of the Discovery writers in respecting canon.

Tiger2

I still think a Picard show, Pike and Discovery in the 32nd century would cover all the big fan bases out there in terms of interest. I’m not holding my breath on a Pike show but it would be great to see.

Afterburn

I think it’s conceivable they could have all of those PLUS a S31 show all running concurrently: that is, all in some stage of production, with no more than 1 show airing at the same time, keeping a new episode of Trek premiering nearly every week, year round, with 13 episodes per show season, with large gaps between show seasons.

TG47

You are so right Afterburn!

13 week series only cover 1/4 of the year.

If the objective is to attract and retain subscriptions throughout the entire year, four series are needed.

I’d argue that Lower Decks and the odd Short Trek won’t really fill that gap.

Although I’d be thrilled to see an Enterprise 1701 Short Trek. Even just one looking back with Number One having an interesting challenge getting the ship refit.

Tiger2

Yes but we can’t ignore the cartoons. We know one will be on Nickelodeon but Lower Decks will be on AA and as far as CBS is concerned that will probably rotate it like the other shows and will be four a year (but this won’t all happen until 2021 the earliest and more realistically 2022).

ASSUMING Discovery and Picard keeps getting renewed, then we will probably get Section 31 in 2021 and Lower Decks in 2022. MAYBE they will squeeze in another live action show but I do feel one of the others will have to get cancelled first and maybe Discovery will go first since it will have been on the longest before they throw another one on.

Man all these dates and productions, this is starting to feel like the MCU lol.

TG47

I don’t mean to discount the animated series, but Lower Decks is intended to be humorous…

And as I’ve tried to argue on other threads, humour is not likely to cross international boundaries and languages as well as drama.

Given that CBS has stated it’s intention to expand CBSAA globally over time, they will like need a deeper bench for drama.

All that said though, Kurtzman needs to manage a lot of growth and change. I doubt CBS will let him push further until he’s ready to pull back from the showrunner role on Discovery.

Tiger2

I agree with you, but they will still have three other live action shows in production. That’s probably enough for them for at least a little while. And as you said Kurtzman still has to manage all these shows. He’s already done that with the CBS shows but he’s a lot more hands off with those shows compared to Star Trek.

But then I look at the guy who is doing all the DC/WB shows (its currently 6 now when Batgirl appears) so its feasible I guess.

DIGINON

@ Tiger2: It seems that Kurtzman was much more hands-off with Discovery until they had to let go of the previous showrunners during season 2. I assume that he will take a more hands-off approach with the other Trek shows as long as he feels that they are running fine.

ML31

Tiger2, Batwoman starts this fall but this fall also will be Arrow’s last season and it will only be 8 episodes. It is being set up for them to do an Arrow-verse version of Crisis on Infinite Earths.

DIGINON

@ TG47: Quite a lot of American comedy shows are exported to international markets. Sure, some jokes may not work in a different language (especially if it’s a play on words) but that’s taken care of in the dubbing process. I don’t expect that the humour in Lower Decks will be so specific that international audiences won’t get it.

TG47

Diginon not quite sure which American comedies you are thinking of.

If I’m looking at comedies rooted in American culture, it’s clear that there’s a significant challenge moving them out of English. And in some cases it involves significant rewriting, as well as dubbing.

Family Guy seems to run mostly in English language countries.

International dubbing of the Simpsons has been pretty fraught. In French, there are different versions for Quebec vs France.

So, it will depend on how culturally specific the humour will be.

DIGINON

@ TG47: Just a quick look at what’s running on the main TV stations this week: Big bang theory, Fresh off the boat, Two and a half men, The Simpsons, How I met your mother and a few others. And this is a non-English speaking market. I don’t know how much individual jokes are rewritten in the dubbing process but the general humour seems to translate just fine.

TG47

Fair enough Diginon… that sounds like it’s crossing languages…

But if your talking about the Quebecois market, we need to take account for the fact it’s North American.

But it could be that American comedy travels out better than comedy from other countries travels in.

And it’s also true that streaming enables shows to travel further to reach niche audiences.

It will be interesting to see how Lower Decks succeeds.

ML31

TG47, there are other streaming services with comedies that reach internationally. It’s not uncommon. Not saying culture is not a factor in humor, but it also doesn’t seem like it is as huge a hurdle as your post implies.

Disinvited

DIGINON & TG47,

I believe the silent film era proved the universality of most sight gags. I even believe there was some research that showed most primates laugh at a classic banana peel slip gag.

One thing I’d be curious to know is who Jerry Lewis assigned to translate his material into French and the approach they took to that end?

TG47

Yes, some kinds of physical comedy travel, but it’s hard to argue that it has the same mobility.

I put it out there…

How many of the Americans on this board have watched:

Fawlty Towers
Absolutely Fabulous
Black Adder
Dad’s Army

Or other top 20 historic British sitcoms?

I know that I saw pretty much all of these in Canada, but in the US, I don’t think even PBS carried these.

Or for a closer example: what portion of American geekdom loves and gets Red Dwarf?

ML31

My gut is telling me that with the other shows in the pipe Discovery may not last beyond season 3. No proof whatsoever. Just that in the past whenever a struggling show has made major setting changes it never lasts. Yes, streaming is a different animal so we shall see. It’s just a hunch.

Tiger2

It may not, but then why make such a big move to the 32nd century which is going to cost a LOT of money because they will have to essentially redesign nearly everything except the ship itself? It may get cancelled after season 3 but it looks like they are going this direction to set it up for the long haul.

ML31

I really don’t see moving the show 900 years into the future as costing them any more than it already does. They have stages already. They redress them all the time. Look at all the original sets that went up for season two we only once, perhaps twice.

Tiger2

Yes but they can’t really reuse anything other than what’s on the ship itself. If they have a Starfleet, thats an ENTIRE new line of wardrobes and sets alone. They can’t reuse any ships we seen before. Species like Klingons and Vulcans will probably have some big changes as well, at least wardrobes and ships. Maybe not but I think its going to be quite expensive to redo a lot of these things.

At the very least, they aren’t going to be saving any money by such a big jump which tells me they probably planning for the long haul.

ML31

I wouldn’t say they were decreasing the budget but that has never really been that big of a problem for discovery. At any rate, it’s just a hunch based on the fate of other struggling shows who made drastic changes in an attempt to keep going. The streaming model could very well be different. Let’s just say I wouldn’t be shocked if 3 seasons was all Discovery got. But I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if they they a 4th either.

DIGINON

@ Tiger2: Discovery hasn’t really featured a lot of returning locations outside of Discovery itself. So even if they hadn’t jumped to the 32nd century the next season would most likely have featured new designs we haven’t seen before. Plus, if they visit an alien world we haven’t seen before it doesn’t really matter whether it’s the 23rd or 32nd century. I guess the main question the creators face is: Do they make everything around Discovery much more advanced or do they find an excuse to keep it at a level comparable to the ship’s technology.

Tiger2

I mean sure, but we are still talking an entire redesign of nearly everything that has come before. If they visit somewhere new (and that would be a rare treat for Discovery lol) sure, its not much changes. But if there is a Federation, everything we seen of it today would be a complete overhaul. Maybe it won’t cost as much as I’m thinking but I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be switching this far left if they knew they only had one more season. What’s the point? Just keep it in the 23rd century, kill Burnham by the end of the season so they can ‘fix’ canon and call it a day.

ML31

I don’t think the show runners are operating season 3 as if it is their last. I’m sure they are running the show as if it’s going to go on and on. The decision to cancel at this point would come from the higher ups at CBS. And since the seasons are so very short that decision would likely come after the season 3 starts airing. Too late to do any kind of finale. But hey… This is just a feeling at this point. I’ve been wrong before and will be again.

ML31

I’m forced to admit that if CBSAA had a Trek show on year round I would feel compelled to keep my subscription going year round. That is how much of a Trek fan/nerd I am.

Tezna

A Pike series will only work if produced right now. The actors are not going to be guaranteed to be available in 2021-22. If they recast then it just becomes another huge risk.

TG47

I think you’re right Tezna that the window will close quickly.

However, Anson Mount has a principal role in a cinematic thriller coming up so 2021 might be right for him.

That’s why I was thinking that a couple of Short Treks might keep the bridge set from being taken down. Interest in seeing more of Number One is high – both from fans and critics. I could also see the possibility of a Short Trek with Spock on his own away from Enterprise.

I’m also wondering if we’ll see a Short Trek with Tyler’s efforts to take over S31 to bridge the time when Georgiou is involved.

Tiger2

I agree Tezna and that is exactly why I’m pretty hesitant over the idea they will make a Pike show because they have five shows in production NOW and most of them won’t even come on until 2021 the earliest. The only two shows we are getting next year is technically the Picard show (if it starts late this year) and most likely Discovery of course. But that’s probably it for 2020. If Section 31 happens that will be in 2021 which I think Lower Decks is also suppose to show up, so do the math. I think they have TONS of ideas of Trek shows down the line, but these are probably ideas for the next 5+ years and most will probably depend on how well the shows they have now do.

Even if they did a Pike show and assuming everything lined up and all the actors wanted to come back for that show, I’m guessing it wouldn’t show up until 2022 minimum UNLESS one of the shows they have in production now gets cancelled. Then maybe 2021. But I’m not holding my breath.

But I think if you do a movie or even a small mini-series like 5-6 episodes, that can work because its more of a one and done and a lot less time to develop it. I think a Short Trek would work too as TG47 said. Or as I been saying, just give them recurring roles on Section 31 since that will be the only show in the 23rd century (we think).

Soren

It’s all pretty simple, cancel the abomination that is the mirror Georgiou show and you have a ready slot for Pike.

Georgiou’s Sass.

It’s rather premature to call a show an “abomination” without having any seen any footage, while it’s still being written and without know anything about the show aside from the fact that it is a vehicle for (the delightful) Michelle Yeoh.

Perhaps you should wait till it airs to pass judgement?

ML31

The conclusion being drawn regarding the Georgeau show is being made based on the information provided about it thus far. And while “abomination” may be a bit harsh, I would agree that such a show, at THIS point, does not sound promising to say the least.

Georgiou’s Sass.

The information thus far as I understand it is that it Stars Michelle Yeoh and involves Section 31. There has also been some mention of the tone being hopeful and that the cast will “save the day”. Perhaps it is a matter of opinion, but that doesn’t sound anything to be worried about.

Then again, I think I am in the minority who doesn’t actually object to Section 31. I wouldn’t say I love it’s place in Star Trek, but it’s an interesting twist in my eyes.

ML31

That is only part of it. You see, currently Yeoh plays this terribly conceived cartoony evil dictator who is arguably a worse person than Hitler. It is assumed she will continue to play that character in this section 31 show. It is also assumed she will be working for or be the head of section 31 in the show. So first, a lot of people have an issue with the existence of Section 31 to begin with. But it seems even more have an issue with that organization recruiting such an amoral character to even be a part of it. Therefore the conclusion is the premise is questionable at best. Downright stupid at worst. And this is before they even to any pre-production. So it’s got that going against it. Further, Kurtzman did say something about the show being “hopeful” but with such an awful character being a part of it, it is difficult to see how the show could ever be “hopeful”. Unless the premise is Section 31 must hunt down evil-Georgeau to send her back to her anti-verse. Where she belongs. I am doubting that. In fact, I am guessing it is about Georgeau (start the sappy music) slowly growing and heart and learning to be a good person. (eyeroll)

Now it is assumed Yeoh will be playing evil-Georgeau. If the reality is she is playing someone else, then the ridiculous premise vanishes. But I think the odds on favorite is she is playing Georgeau. The Snidley Whiplash of the Trek universe.

Still think the concept sounds like a can’t miss?

Georgiou’s Sass.

I feel as though I have tried to defend my position on making judgements about a show that hasn’t even gone before the cameras yet and you have attacked me for not having the same line of thought as you. Your post came across as incredibly passive agressive and I am not entirely sure what I did to deserve that. I hope that I am wrong.

Georgiou, as you can probably tell from my name, is one of my favourite characters on Discovery. I love her wit, her odd nature and the fact that she is a cookie-cutter Starfleet Officer. They have definitely toned down her “evilness” from Season One and we’re already seeing signs of her softening. She’s a real hoot at times and I love the energy she brings to the series.

ML31

OK. I was offering up reasons why many are critical of the Section 31 show before it even starts pre-production. This was not judgement on you for liking the evil-Georgeau character. Every character is somebody’s favorite. You do seem to be very much in the minority on that one. Trust me, I know what it is like to be in the minority. I’m not a fan of the Picard character while many adore him. So you need to understand there is a reason why there is negativity towards the show before even writers assemble in the writers room. And that reason is not just internet haters. It is thought out and valid.

I like Yeoh as an actress but wish she had a role more suited to her acting style. I’ve always felt she was wasted playing that part.

Georgiou’s Sass.

I merely commented that calling a series we know virtually nothing about an “abomination” was premature and you interjected with a passive aggressive response and when I stated as much, you doubled down on your rhetoric, told me what I should understand- in the most condescending way possible. I maintain that I have done nothing to deserve being treated in such way.

I’m honestly disappointed because I have felt reading through your posts in the past, that you are one of the most insightful and well mannered people in this community.

ML31

I apologize if you felt my response was a bit of a beat down and being passive aggressive. I honestly did not see it that way. But I felt that pointing out that people are reacting to what they know of the show so far was an important factor to consider rather than just say it was not good to complain about a show that hasn’t even entered pre-production yet. That’s all.

Soren

Michelle Yeoh is delightful. That’s why Discovery should dream up some way of bringing back prime Georgiou and kill off her doppelganger at the same time they go through this time portal thing. Voila, ready made captain for season 3, Burnham gets to right a wrong over her decisions in season 1 that killed Georgiou, and the producers get to keep an actress they love without inflicting a show on the fans that 90% hate the idea of.

dmduncan

Is there an underserved market for an aging Picard that they just discovered? I’m mystified. I don’t understand where this show is coming from.

Soren

You’re mystified over them wanting to make a show about one the top three best known characters in Star Trek?

dmduncan

Yeah but so what? Of all the places they could go after restarting the franchise, going back to where it was when it trailed off into obsolescence using THE main character in charge when the franchise crashed and burned at the box office, seems a strange way to spend the capital built up after the franchise got revitalized in 2009 with totally different characters.

When I posted the above last night I was watching Artificial on Twitch TV. It’s a livestreaming SF show that interacts with the audience. So much has changed and is changing with audiences that to ME it just seems a Picard series is an odd thing to make in 2019.

There was, but other than fans looking back at their childhoods is there still a market for Low T-NG?

Soren

Nemesis tanked through inept direction and editing. Picard had nothing to do with it.

dmduncan

TNG did not have great success at the box office. People were tired of it. However many fans the show had could not keep the franchise alive, and it faded out on TV so that movies were the way for them to go and they couldn’t perform. So again I just don’t understand Alex. I mean it SOUNDS to me like he’s feeling nostalgic and not necessarily in a good way for the franchise.

I read the comments in the other thread about the “teaser” and saw glowing reactions throughout, but my honest reaction to it was quite different. I didn’t at all feel teased.

Not trying to spoil the party but I really don’t understand why that’s the direction they went for a show.

ML31

Trek ’09 was totally different characters? Are you under the impression that is the first time we ever saw Capt. Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy and the rest?

dmduncan

Not what I said. ST.09 had totally different characters from TNG. It wasn’t anyone from TNG who brought the franchise back to life.

ML31

You know, I thought about that angle after I made my post.

dmduncan

No problem. Maybe you thought I was a new fan of the franchise. I haven’t been here in years so you might not know me or that I had a la la la looong history posting on this site.