CBS Invites San Diego Comic-Con To “Enter The Star Trek Universe”

As expected, CBS will be at Comic-Con this year, and with multiple shows in various stages of production, they’re calling this the “Star Trek Universe.” They plan to share information on Discovery season 3, Picard, and Lower Decks. CBS will be in the famous Hall H for the presentation on Saturday, July 20.

Official panel details from CBS

ENTER THE STAR TREK UNIVERSE” PANEL 11:30 AM -1:00 PM – Over 50 years ago, the world was first introduced to what would quickly become a cultural phenomenon for the ages. “Star Trek” broke barriers then and continues to do so now, inspiring people of all generations and walks of life with its celebration of cultural diversity, scientific exploration and the pursuit of uncharted frontiers. Today, the “Star Trek” universe continues to thrive, exploring all new missions for Starfleet. CBS All Access invites you to join the cast and producers of its hit series STAR TREK: DISCOVERY and be the first to hear about two new upcoming additions to the “Star Trek” universe: the highly anticipated new series STAR TREK: PICARD, starring Sir Patrick Stewart, and the animated series STAR TREK: LOWER DECKS.

Star Trek: Discovery cast scheduled to appear includes Sonequa Martin-Green alongside executive producers Alex Kurtzman, Michelle Paradise and Heather Kadin, with series guest star Tig Notaro (who plays Chief Engineer Reno) moderating the conversation.

Star Trek: Lower Decks will feature co-creator and executive producer Mike McMahan and surprise guests sharing an exclusive first look at the upcoming animated series.

Star Trek: Picard cast members will come together for the series’ first Comic-Con. The panel will feature Sir Patrick Stewart, Alison Pill, Michelle Hurd, Evan Evagora, Isa Briones, Santiago Cabrera, and Harry Treadaway, alongside executive producers Alex Kurtzman, Michael Chabon, Akiva Goldsman and Heather Kadin.

Trek events around SDCC

Like CBS as done in the past, there will be other Trek events at and around Comic-Con including a new gallery display.

JEAN-LUC PICARD: THE FIRST DUTY” EXHIBIT – In celebration of Patrick Stewart’s return to his iconic “Star Trek: The Next Generation” role, “Jean-Luc Picard: The First Duty” is a special exhibition showcasing original props, costumes and other artifacts tracing Picard’s life and Starfleet career. Items on display include his cherished Ressikan flute, the legendary Picard family album, his Starfleet uniforms, models of ships Picard captained, and all that remains of the “Borg Queen.” The gallery also features exclusive first looks at costumes and other items featured in the upcoming CBS All Access series STAR TREK: PICARD. Visitors will have the first chance to purchase exclusive STAR TREK: PICARD merchandise and opportunities for exclusive giveaways.

The gallery is located at Michael J Wolf Fine Arts, 363 Fifth Ave., San Diego, Calif. 92101 and will be open Thursday, Friday and Saturday of Comic-Con from 11:00 AM until 9:00 PM and on Sunday from 11:00 AM until 5:00 PM.

STAR TREK” UNIVERSE BOOTH: U.S.S. DISCOVERY TRANSPORTER EXPERIENCE AND “TREK” TALENT MEET-AND-GREETS – CBS All Access is bringing the “Star Trek” universe to the San Diego Comic-Con Exhibit Hall, Thursday, July 18 through Sunday, July 21, where fans are invited to step aboard the U.S.S. Discovery and travel to strange and distant lands through an immersive transporter experience. Fans will also have the opportunity to meet some of their favorite “Star Trek” talent in person with meet-and-greets in the booth (Booth #4237) on Saturday, July 20. Comic-Con badges are required for entry.

STAR TREK” UNIVERSE EXCLUSIVE PINS – A number of exclusive, limited-quantity “Star Trek” pins will be available to fans during Comic-Con. All week long, a Starfleet Headquarters visitors badge will be available for those who visit and complete the “Star Trek” transporter experience on the show floor. On Saturday afternoon and Sunday, a limited quantity of pins featuring the debut of two characters from the upcoming CBS All Access animated show STAR TREK: LOWER DECKS will also be available from the “Star Trek” booth. At the “Jean-Luc Picard: The First Duty” museum experience at Michael J. Wolf Fine Arts, fans can get an exclusive replica pin of the Picard family crest as seen in STAR TREK: PICARD.

Exclusive pins for SDCC 2019

Starfleet Command visitor pin and the Picard family crest pin

Also of interest to sci-fi fans is the Twilight Zone experience:

STEP INTO THE “TWILIGHT ZONE” EXPERIENCE – From Thursday, July 18 to Sunday, July 21. Located in the Interactive Zone at Petco Park, fans will be transported into CBS All Access’ THE TWILIGHT ZONE as they enjoy an immersive experience not only of sight and sound, but of mind. Reserve FREE tickets at: StepIntoTheTwilightZone.com.


TrekMovie will be in San Diego, so watch our social media and website for our coverage during SDCC!

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kmart

So I guess these live walk-in events and panels and celebrity soundbytes have succeeded the whole idea of doing actual articles documenting production? How insecure is this company that it doesn’t allow regular journalism at all?

I dunno, but I’m guessing this is the same for TZ too? I read some reviews of that this morning that made it sound like the show is godawful bad, building to a finale that makes the end of MOONLIGHTING seem like WHAT YOU LEAVE BEHIND time the DEADWOOD movie by comparison.

ML31

I only saw the first 4 episodes of TZ and none of them were any good. The only one that was even sorta OK was ruined by the absurd length. And the 4th one was the absolute worst of the episodes. If the ones I did not see got worse after the first 4 then yes. That show has been a colossal failure.

What I would like to know is who wrote that press release?

Trek in a Cafe

How can anyone watch the third episode and not feel for the mom as she tries to save her son?

J.P.

Well, portraying the entire police force as a bunch of racists intent on killing black people tends to leave a sour taste in many peoples mouths (like mine). Yes, racism does happen and blacks are targeted. However, not showing one officer in this episode attempting to stand up to the bad cop as if they are all a monolith of pure bad people? That was disgusting.

PEB

It happens. I’m not sure if the truth hurts or you just refuse to see it but it happens. Not everywhere but my god there are so many cases where no one spoke up in protest for one reason or another and just went along with it using the excuse of “I was just following orders.”

TG47

Bystanders not intervening or reporting abusive behaviour is regrettably a common pattern in bullying or human rights abuses.

Beyond the real risks to those who go against the group or are whistleblowers, tacit acceptance seems to be something we learn on the schoolground and take into the workplace.

PEB

TG47 you’re exactly right. It’s human nature as sociology experiments have shown. It’s harder for someone to take that first lonely step forward. It’s sad, incredibly sad, but often times the norm.

Holden

I thought that this episode was about the hopelessness that some people feel in the face of constant oppression. And no matter what you try to do, circumstances never change. The mom felt hopeless until she remembered her camera. Providing any alternative to that narrative I would’ve felt empty.

ML31

It wasn’t the mom trying to save her son that made the episode bad. It was nearly everything else. The mom wanting to help her kid was the only part that made sense. The rest was either tiresome or eyeroll inducing.

Afterburn

I thought the first three episodes were excellent. Haven’t had any time to watch the others, but am excited to dive in. Way better than Black Mirror (though I never really liked that show, kind of tedious).

Josiah Rowe

Doesn’t the “regular journalism” usually appear closer to the time a show is going to air? I’m sure Picard will have EW covers, set visit articles and the like later in the year. SDCC publicity isn’t replacing that, it’s just another part of the build-up.

Methuselah

Yes, of course!

Danpaine

I saw the first TZ they offered (YouTube had it for free), the Comedian. It wasn’t anything terribly special, and certainly didn’t warrant me signing back up for CBS AA. If IMDB ratings are accurate, the first season wasn’t received terribly well. This summer brings new seasons of A Handmaid’s Tale and Stranger Things, plenty else to watch, so the next time I’ll be gracing CBS’ doorstep will be for Picard.

Tiger2

I’ve still only seen one episode of TZ myself, Nightmare at 30,000 feet which I thought was OK but didn’t love. And I have not been motivated to watch the others because the reviews seem so mixed. I probably will eventually watch a few more but it does seem like the first season is considered pretty disappointing. Like me and Discovery lol.

AA is trying but its still lacking in that MUST SEE show that everyone is raving about with audiences and critics that all the other streaming sites seem to have. I thought TZ would be it (only Star Trek fans care about Discovery and even then I’m not sure how much) but wasn’t to be.

FrostUK

Eh, never mind TZ. @Kurtzman, CBS should just do a cooking show dressed up as a ‘star trek cooking show’, who’s your best celebrity cook over there?

It’ll be like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kufzm2AHij0

Danpaine

Personally Tiger, I’ll stick with the classics from the 60’s for my TZ fix. I still find them fantastic in so many ways.

ML31

I agree but I also must add that the CBS 80’s revival was pretty good, too. Check out the the names of people involved in that show, too. Some are surprising they were even involved!

Afterburn

“Still lacking that must see show.”

So are a lot of networks. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect them to have the next Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones.

Tiger2

I wasn’t saying that. I only mean a break out show that gets people talking and excited. It doesn’t even have to be huge viewership but just something that draws attention to the site like House of Cards did for Netflix. And for networks who haven’t had a must see show yet is probably networks most people don’t care much about either. But those are probably on all cable packages people get regardless if they watch or not. For streaming sites, people have to actually want them to subscribe all year.

But please don’t over read what I was saying. I don’t think AA is going anywhere and it seems to be hitting it conservative target numbers, which I’m actually surprised about. And the shows on it now are all doing well enough if they been renewed at least. I’m only saying if AA wants to stand out among the pack it has to be more than a Star Trek channel, especially as everyone from Disney to Apple will be rolling out theirs soon with a LOT more promise and content on day one.

I’ve had AA since mid 2017 (but only pay the lowest price) and still haven’t cancelled but more than likely I will cancel after the Picard show to make room for Disney+. I honestly can NOT wait for that one being the huge Disney, Pixar, Marvel and Star Wars fan that I am.

Afterburn

“I wasn’t saying that. I only mean a break out show that gets people talking and excited.”

I’m not arguing with you, so much as making my own point that I don’t think it’s a problem that they don’t have a hot/buzzy show. Like I said, not every network is lucky enough to have one.

Afterburn

Online audience ratings are NEVER accurate.

Let’s also keep in mind that the original TZ had more bad episodes than good, and is remembered more fondly for the 25% of episodes that became television/pop culture classics. I felt the episodes I saw felt more like the Twilight Zone than any TZ inspired series that’s been attempted since the first revival.

Bob

Perhaps these “live walk-in events and panels” succeed because -most- fans actually enjoy them? I mean -most- fans who quietly enjoy this stuff then get on with their lives, not the small by overly vocal group who spend their time online complaining about everything they can.

TG47

Uhm, I’m wondering why it’s a negative to give fans at cons real news and updates on production.

After all, for all Trek fans criticisms, they have also kept the franchise going through the lean years.

I don’t see how a static article in Star Trek magazine or on the official site would be better.

More to the point, Discovery has offered media days and interviews to both major industry journalists (Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Deadline) as well as to independent fan sites. Journalists are in no way kept from access that I can tell.

Methuselah

Dude, they are having a 90-minute panel. Where on earth did you come up with the conclusion that they won’t provide production updates as part of the panel?

My goodness, the nitpicking here is just silly and inconsequential.

Tiger2

You’re obviously misreading TG47’s post. He’s not saying cons DON’T do that! He’s saying what’s wrong with them giving news and updates there as opposed to a printed source? In other words, whats the difference? For most people, especially genre fans, there really isn’t much of one.

It was the advent of Star Trek conventions where fans would get information about the show straight from the writers and actors mouths and its still that way a lot of times today, just funneled through the internet. Half of the news that Trekmovie posts here comes from a panel or a speaking appearance given by a producer, writer or an actor saying a remark at a convention somewhere.

TG47

Thanks sincerely for clearing that up for me Tiger2.

Yes, I meant that we now get information about production in a lot of different ways, with conventions being a key one.

I don’t think it’s such a new idea, although it gets broader distribution through independent fan sites and social media.

I recall Ron Moore, Brandon Braga and Rick Sternbach doing panels at regional CreationCons in the early 90s, right after DS9 started its first season. They intentionally shared a lot about production to get fan interest and buy-in.

I’m finding it hard to figure out where Methusallah is coming from. I never found the official magazine stories that deep or comprehensive. I think the video retrospectives on production that the official site is putting up now as part of the FYC process are getting much more infomation out earlier.

Afterburn

They are doing what they feel is the best way to promote the show. I’m not sure what your grievance is, or why you even care.

Tiger2

I’m not sure who this post is aimed at? I assume not me or TG47 since we obviously both agree but the posting system is confusing here.

Afterburn

You’re right there, Tiger. Frankly I’m not sure who i was specifically responding too any more and it’s too much of a hassle to re-read the entire thread, but someone took issue with how they were disseminating news and promotion, and implied (as I read it at least) that fans are owed some sort of deference due to their loyalty to the franchise.

I’m basically saying that they are doing what they feel is best to achieve strong promotion. And frankly, to add to that, why should they feel any loyalty to a fanbase that kicks and screams like children at every new project if it isn’t *exactly* what they want? The fanbase has shown zero loyalty since the end of TOS. Nearly every project since (from the films to the spinoff series, to the new shows) has faced a backlash and been the source of outrage at some point by a contingent of the fandom.

Yes, there are always those that are loyal, but it’s not the studios job to seek out those who are loyal and cater to them, whether a minority or a majority. End of the day the studio– and even Roddenberry when he was more in control– are trying to make a financially successful product.

Afterburn

Bob wins.

FeralKid

I only saw the first episode of the new TZ, the free one on Youtube. That was enough. I mean, when the use of the original credits font was the most exciting thing I saw, I figured the show wasn’t for me.

Afterburn

I love how fan sites have become a place for people to pop in to tell us how much they hated something, rather than to discuss the things they love. This isn’t even a TZ fan site.

FeralKid

I didn’t hate it. The episode I saw had its moments, but it just wasn’t very exciting. I mean for a pilot. But I’ll give it another try next season.

Oh, and you might have noticed the article mentions TZ, and this site reviewed the first couple of episodes. So get off your high horse.

ML31

I have to point out that the 80’s TZ that I really liked didn’t start off strong. In fact the opening episode, Shatterday, was absurdly weak. And ended up being one of the worst episodes of the series.

Afterburn

Are you kidding? Shatterday is one of the best episodes of that revival, and was written by Harlan Ellison, and starred a young Bruce Willis who gave a great performance.

ML31

We will have to agree to disagree. I found the episode slow and astoundingly predictable. Willis did what he could with it but it was just a bad story. Fortunately there were a lot of really good stories to come.

Tiger2

Dude the article literally mentions the TZ experience and why the show was even brought up in the first place. And just because he commented on TZ doesn’t mean he ‘only’ popped up on TM to negatively talk about something. Seriously.

Afterburn

Seriously what?

Tiger2

“This isn’t even a TZ fan site.”

You made it sound like the talk about the show isn’t relevant in this page when it was mentioned directly here.

And its unfair to accuse someone of just coming to post something negative when has probably posted on other TM articles, good and bad.

Afterburn

I’m a firm believer that when there’s something you don’t like, you don’t intrude simply just to say “well I don’t like that.”

That’s not discussion. GTFO.

ML31

I don’t think you are wrong. But, if you show up and say “I don’t like that and here are the reasons why…” That’s an entirely different thing.

Afterburn

Agreed, and in a lot of ways it is how the tone comes across. It doesn’t sound like people here want to have a discussion at all, they just want to poke their head in to announce how much they hated something.

Um.. OK?

Michael Hall

I did rewatch the Deadwood movie and liked it better the second time, mostly due to the wonderful character moments in all their profane, poetic glory, and in spite of the fact that there really isn’t much plot to speak of, what little there was mostly being a remake of the Season 3 finale with a happier denouement. Still, who would pass up the opportunity to visit one last time with these people?

Danpaine

Looking forward to that – decided to watch the entirety of the show again before seeing the new movie, on season 2 now. Haven’t seen Deadwood since it’s original run. And you’re right, revisiting those characters is a treat.

Michael Hall

Doing the same thing myself, now up to Season 2, episode 4. I knew it was a great show — arguably the greatest TV show of all time — but I’d forgotten many of the details of its incredibly rich tapestry of plot and character, and some I’d probably not fully grasped due to the baroque language. Rewatching the whole thing on a nightly basis is just proving to be incredibly rewarding.

Holden

Oh, man. The ‘Deadwood’ movie was perfect. That’s how to pander to fans while also, you know, remembering the original show. It’s so seamless after 13 years it’s beautiful.

Methuselah

My, what a silly conclusion to draw from this, no offense. LOL

Maybe a long time ago these panels were actual press conferences, but that was then. Today, they are promotional fan events. I’d no more expect hard journalism out of them then I would expect a competitive contest from an all star game.

PEB

We’re in a very visual/interactive age. This is also what they do at SDCC. Look at last year there was (I believe) an Alien interactive exhibit. In a year where the two biggest comic properties Marvel and DC are skipping out on Hall H with any of their film and tv productions, it makes sense that all others will be doing what they can to put a spotlight on themselves. This isn’t anything outside the box. The actual articles will be here and in Star Trek magazine and other outlets online.

Marc Henson

I actually felt that the last episode of the new Twilight Zone was one of the better ones. Overall, it was a pretty castrated show. It didn’t have the balls that the original series did or other versions did.

The show didn’t really tackle bold issues at all, just normal stuff that every other show has done. As was mentioned, the episode with the racist cop would have been better if not for the ending, which was really super racist on the writer’s part.

None of it was badly acted, just badly written. I’m really tired of people saying that white people are evil because of what certain people do that were white.

I had nothing to do with the terrible things that happened to the Native Americans and in fact I am of Native American descent!

But anyway…I really hope we get some interesting Star Trek news again…so freaking bored lately.

Tiger2

This is the THIRD TZ iteration since the original and it seem like none of them have gotten close to the original. It actually shows how GREAT Star Trek in general is because while some people may not feel the spin offs are as good as TOS, others have felt differently and that other shows have surpassed TOS in many ways. None of it is a consensus but it does prove Trek has actually been a really quality franchise through the decades although it definitely has its stinkers too.

But the fact we talk about ALL Star Trek shows and most fan watch most of the shows (and films) pretty equally while they all show up in reruns and streaming sites together really does show the power of the franchise. I doubt most TZ fans watch anything other than the original series. There was even a movie produced by Steven Spielberg and thats never talked about anymore lol.

Afterburn

I will still never understand the way fans hold up TZ and TOS as the greatest shows ever made. I know they’re iconic, and pretty much laid a lot of groundwork for much of modern television, so in that respect I understand some reverence and respect…

…but really, 75% of those shows are just mediocre at best. TZ I rewatch often, front to back, and there’s a LOT of very bland, middle-of-the-road, “safe” episodes where nothing interesting really happens. TOS is mostly unwatchable trash, and both are remembered as all time greats for the pioneering they did in television, rather than the objective quality of the material.

Lots of great TZ episodes, lots of wonderful performances, but let’s not rewrite history and pretend that there weren;’t a lot of forgettable, boring, silly episodes. And most episodes didn’t cover controversial subject matter, that’s just more revisionist history. Some covered some interesting societal issues (“The Obsolete Man” always comes to mind) but I’d hardly call much of it very controversial.

Tiger2

Well I can’t disagree too much. The reality is most old shows stand the test of time mostly through nostalgia more than anything. Sure at the TIME they were probably pushing the envelope in some way but anyone watching them with fresh eyes today still see them mostly as shows that were made for their time. Most people who grew up with them were around those times too so those shows made an impact on them that still carry to this day. But if you WEREN’T around at the time, its not going to have the same impact obviously. You’re not going to watch it with the same rose colored glasses on.

But yes both shows still gets new fans today and even younger fans, but the shows, ESPECIALLY TOS do look outdated for most people today. I know this every time I watch an episode of and my younger cousins who are teenagers now look at it like its something out of the sixties. ;D

But they like the Kelvin movies just fine (at least the first two), but it is a big disconnect between those movies and the old show. But probably no different than people who watch TDK movies and then try and watch the old Batman show. There is really no comparison between them, they are completely different entities, just using the same characters.

Even for me, I admit I can’t watch TOS like I used to and I grew up watching it in the eighties. I’m ONLY a Star Trek fan today because of that show and probably wouldn’t be one without it. I probably seen each episode at least a dozen times. But oddly as I get older its harder to watch it vs the other Trek shows,which in themselves are also dated but all premiered after I was born at least so I can watch them as I do any old show I watched as a new show originally. But TOS just feels different because it wasn’t made in my time and I feel less connected to it now even if its still my third favorite show in the franchise. For others, it seems to be the complete opposite and they enjoy it as much as they did when they first watched it. I don’t know why its the opposite effect for me, especially since I watched it no problem as a kid through my twenties. I can still watch it, but I’m VERY selective on the episodes now. I can’t watch it straight it through anymore like the others. A lot of the episodes ARE bad and way too campy for me now. It feels like a sixties show more than ever.

As far as the TZ, I was always a fan but I was also pretty selective of it from the beginning. Its good but yeah its definitely a show for its time and few people under a certain age probably can’t really watch it.

Tiger2

But getting back to my original point, I think it proves Star Trek wasn’t just a one hit wonder which TZ still very much like even if people keep trying to bring it back for new audiences.

The concept of Star Trek really does survive through the ages and it CAN be shaped to every new generation even if yes its mostly appreciated by ‘older’ people but that’s mostly people in their 20s as opposed to the under 10 crowd like comic book films have done. And yes plenty of young people watched Trek too as I said I was very much under 10 when I first started watching TOS and not yet a teenager when TNG started. But it is mostly for older people (I really can’t imagine a typical 8 year old watching Discovery like kids grew up watching TOS and TNG but I could be wrong on that). But older people certainly appreciate it more and every generation seems to find it and watch it as people who are in their 20s now are watching everything from TOS through Enterprise.

It doesn’t mean individual shows can’t be bad or age, but it proves the concept itself is pretty timeless and why Trek always thrives through the decades.

Disinvited

Tiger2,

THE TWILIGHT ZONE was an ANTHOLOGY show, how you can call a show where only a handful of installments were anywhere near close in resemblance of plot and setting as a ONE hit wonder is astounding to me! The first TZ show was composed of many many many stand alone hits, making it impossible to describe it as a ONE hit wonder.

Tiger2

I mean the original show was great, but all the other versions have been mediocre to bad. I’m not saying anything about the original, simply that its success hasn’t been duplicated 60 years later.

Disinvited

Tiger2,

Nostalgia? That only works if there are enough still alive now who saw it when it aired originally. And we’ve been constantly told on this site alone, not to mention Grey’s Paramount, that there aren’t. There has to be another reason?

Disinvited

Afterburn,

Well, a lot more of the 1st TZ’s installments were controversial than you were likely now to be able to perceive because they were conceived and aired in an US era pre civil-rights and Camelot. You’d have had to be very well-read, or lived it as I did, to know how controversial airing images of the devil (Remember hearing about that Spock controversy thing? Well, it was worse prior. In fact, I’d argue that Spock only exists as he does today, because TZ plowed those devil airing taboos under, ahead of it.) and combining it with a fortune telling machine was for one of its Shatner starring vehicles, for example.

Afterburn

Name 10 truly controversial episodes of TZ. The overwhelming majority were just cool stories with a fun twist.

“Maple Street” is clearly a play on communist fearmongering, so good job there, but not sure they ever really did tackle the subject of racism even, though they were one of the few shows that featured a black lead in an episode (The Big Tall Wish).

Disinvited

Afterburn,

Well, he does mention the Berlin Wall in the radio on I AM THE NIGHT, COLOR ME BLACK, but I think he was clearly engaging in labeling it an object of fomenting hate by its builders. But again, that episode tackled the racism of The South of my birth where, again, Rod’s notion that it might be wrong to lynch the accused murderer of an open racist was quite controversial – still is in some parts.

Disinvited

Afterburn,

re: subject of racism

Of course it did, you are just demonstrating the modern inability to comprehend the inanity of its times, that I referenced, it had to hurdle in order to get such subjects to air.

Eral quotes:

“Madison Avenue is afraid of the dark.” — Nat King Cole

“If you want to do a piece about prejudice against [black people], you go instead with Mexicans …” — Rod Serling

To my old eyes, THE GIFT is an obvious Emmett Till inspired anti-lynching commentary even if Rod learned long ago to deny it if he wanted to see it broadcast.

But if you need something a little more on the nose in regards to dealing with racism to see it, there’s also A QUALITY OF MERCY, and Takei’s THE ENCOUNTER, which got pulled from air.

Afterburn

lol @ disinvited. Yes, i have the inability, rather than you being unable to comprehend the discussion we’re having, or the things i’ve said. Move along, if you can’t keep up.

Disinvited

Afterburn,

I comprehend, full well, that after you laid the foundation for support of your little controversy assertion on the claim that THE TWILIGHT ZONE hadn’t aired an episode dealing in racism, let alone a controversial racism episode at that, that all I had to cite was THE ENCOUNTER and the fact that it was pulled after air to shoot down your claim. Refutation appears to be another thing that you have difficulty recognizing.

Afterburn

Dis, you failed utterly, and proved you did not read my comment at all, and are just making a complete fool of yourself.

I never once said anything you cited. You just invented that to fit your attack on me for some inexplicable reason.

Disinvited

Afterburn,

You, my esteemed colleague in this discussion, made the following observation to support your keen insight in this {ALLCAPS emphasis mine.}:

”“Maple Street” is clearly a play on communist fearmongering, so good job there, but NOT SURE THEY EVER REALLY DID TACKLE THE SUBJECT OF RACISM even, though they were one of the few shows that featured a black lead in an episode (The Big Tall Wish).” — Afterburn

I submit that in 1960’s US broadcast network television there NEVER was a more REAL covering of racism for a network show than getting your script to air and then having it pulled, not from isolated regional centers like the Bible Belt or racist owned stations, but from its ENTIRE network scheduled rerun and syndicated rerun rotation after ONE singular airing. The fact that you didn’t know that, and continue to fail to recognize its significance are refutations of your professed well-reasoned observations on the subject of the original THE TWILIGHT ZONE. And since you mysteriously find some probative value in random numerical challenges, why don’t you to cite 10 other US network aired shows that had installments that made it to singular air covering the same topic only to endure equivalent indignities?

Dggjag

“TOS is mostly unwatchable trash”. Uhh No… Yes it is old and not every episode is great but it sure isn’t trash.

Afterburn

Opinion is subjective. It’s pretty awful to me. I struggle to get through even episodes that are called “classic all time greats.” Bad writing, bad acting, bad directing.

TG47

^^ What Tiger2 said… TZ is still looking for a sequel that commands the loyalty of the original…

…whereas each Trek iteration has its own audience that feels that it was the ‘best’ Trek…even Enterprise has its loyal following…and a large proportion of fans have seen every series and every movie at least once…(and many have seen much of the 700-odd hours of Trek many times)

Afterburn

You know why people were so loyal to TZ back then? Because it was one of maybe 10 good shows on TV.

Afterburn

Castrated? Balls of the original? The first episode had a man using his newfound power to erase his enemies from existence, including a child molester.

Afterburn

Sorry, this comment was awaiting approval, so I couldn’t edit it to correct it to a murderer, and just re-posted from scratch.

Afterburn

The first episode had a man use his new powers to erase his enemies from existence, including a murderer. Not sure what else you want in terms of “ballsy”.

As for bold issues, again, what do you want? Just because you didn’t like the ending doesnt mean they didnt tackle the issue, and that ending pretty much disproves your claim that the show is “castrated.”

What do you want them to tackle? It seems controversial writing is something you don’t really like, so you can’t have it both ways. It sounds like what you want is them to write episodes that push YOUR ideological and political beliefs ONLY.

Holden

I do agree the last episode of the new TZ was amazing. Several great twists. Some lovely winks. But not just fan pandering, though. It made me rethink and appreciate the care and attention put into the overall (uneven) season as a whole. A very satisfying finale.

HubcapDave

Quite a presence! I notice they’ve got the guy they fired doing a lot of work that weekend…..

They 1099’d him out for the weekend.

Denny C

I know. I mean, gosh, does CBS even know he’s going to be there?

HubcapDave

I would think, given the announcement on the startrek.com website…..

DIGINON

If you believe some fans Kurtzman is a hack, so he probably just hacked his way into the startrek.com website and put his name there.

Tiger2

Wow this is unexpected but exciting!

What’s crazy is a year ago at this time so many of us was just speculating if Patrick Stewart coming back as Picard was a real thing or not and that MAYBE it would be announced at Comic Con. When it didn’t happen I was a bit deflated but still held out hope maybe it was true and they were just waiting for a better moment to announce that show and possibly others. Now a year later, the show is not only green lit but already sounds like they shot halfway through its first season already. It’s pretty incredible where we are with the Star Trek universe. Even if you’re not fond of Discovery or Alex Kurtzman its a pretty exciting time to be a fan, especially if you want to see the 24th century back as so many of us do (well the last year of it anyway ;)).

But I’m pretty excited about all of it. I can’t wait to hear what life is like in the 32nd century and Discovery’s new home. Excited to hear about Lower Decks show (which I didn’t expect for awhile) and get some info on its premise and setting. I’m still hoping for a post-Picard time line, maybe in the 26th century or something but won’t be surprised if they bring it back to the 23rd or 24th century. And most likely the 24th century since the creator is a huge TNG fan and its named after a TNG episode. And obviously want to hear what Picard is actually about. And they will probably sneak in some Short Trek info, especially the one with Spock and Number One now that cat is out of the bag.

While I’m still pretty mixed on Discovery and not sure about stuff like Section 31, I’m still excited for the future just the same. This is the kind of Trek franchise I have always dreamed of, multiple Star Trek shows doing different things and in different timelines and settings. The Trek universe is so big and vast, the potential is there to go BIG with it and it looks like that is finally happening. I’m mostly just excited after being stuck with prequels for so long we are FINALLY moving forward again with a lot of new territory to cover from the 25th to the 32nd century. It’s going to be interesting!

Bob

Whatever the Picard show is about, it will not be what some are hoping for – some have ridiculously high expectations and wants, and if the show doesn’t – and it won’t – satisfy every nit-picking whinger with an internet connection, then comment sections like this will be filled (disproportionately, I may add) by wailing comments about how they’ve eff’d up Star Trek. It’s a common pattern these days, fandom is as toxic and polarised as politics.

Tiger2

No matter what, some people will be disappointed, no doubt about that and of course that could include myself as well. I just have faith it will at least be interesting.

And yes every fandom has toxic fans these days (although Marvel, at least MCU, seems to have a united following more so than others), although criticism is not what makes something toxic. Flying around nasty insults to cast and crew or spreading rumors that show runners/directors being fired because they don’t like them is sadly par for the course in fandom today.

And I know a lot of people seem disappointed this may be a story line about Picard going rogue with a rag tag crew (based on rumors anyway), but I’m absolutely fine with it and really looking forward to it. For me I just want a continuation of the 24th century first and foremost and I’m looking forward to see a Picard 20 years after Nemesis, how he has changed, life without the Enterprise and his TNG family, etc. If they tell a riveting story as well, I’m on board. But I know it will disappoint others who want to see him on the Enterprise E with Riker and Troi again just like many were disappointed with Disovery that it didn’t feel TOS enough in its first season (but did a better job of it in season 2 at least).

DeanH

I would definitely not give the MCU fans a free pass on toxicity. All you have to do is take a look at SOME of those who seems to hate Discovery to see they have a similar hate-for Captain Marvel and the actor who portrays her. I finally got around to seeing Endgame today and I thought she along with the rest of the movie was quite good. I have to admit being a little baffled by the vile contempt she seems to have generated. As you said, every fandom has toxic fans and MCU nation is sadly not immune.

A34

They hate women.

Tiger2

Yeah I hear you about Captain Marvel, but that was more of a VERY fringe element of the MCU base and it never really got past those people or became a big talking point against MCU as a whole. And yes the focus was heavily on the actress herself but you notice NO ONE called for the directors or writers of the movie to be banned from Hollywood. Or SJW Kevin Feige should never be allowed to make another MCU movie and so on. What’s funny about that is that you never heard anyone attacked the people who actually MADE the film like you would for say, oh, The Last Jedi or Star Trek Into Darkness. I don’t even remember who made Captain Marvel because they were almost in the background. Rian Johnson probably wishes he had that kind of anonymity lol.

What I’m saying is you never hear calls for Kevin Feige or Louis D’Esposito to lose their jobs or called a traitor to the franchise the way Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson, Alex Kurtzman, Michael Bay (Transformes), etc are. MCU has its opponents but the overwhelming majority seems to be behind the people who make the movies and shows. It doesn’t mean people won’t turn on them someday but so far, its been negligible.

Not so much for others, especially Star Trek although I don’t think Kurtzman is getting it any worse than Rick Berman was getting it at the end of his tenure. The internet is just a much bigger place today and stuff like Youtube didn’t exist back then.

TG47

It took a bit to sink in, but I’m wondering about the PR people test-driving the idea of a Star Trek UNIVERSE as opposed to a franchise.

On one hand it sounds less commercial, on the other hand its a bit incomplete given how much Trek is built on the concept of a multiverse.

I know they want to emphasize that the television series are set mainly in the Prime universe… but somehow ‘universe’ seems less rather than more to me.

Tiger2

I agree with you. To call it a universe is obviously fine, but not quite accurate either. BUT I guess you can still just look at the word as all encompassing to everything like the MCU is doing, which after End Game has all but established its now a multiverse. But I doubt will be changing its name to fit its new reality.

Although in Trek’s case, it really is just the shows which makes it feel a little less.

albatrosity

This is absolutely true, no show can satisfy everyone. However, most would argue All Good Things was as close to a perfect ending as Trek could ever have gotten, a lot better than basically every other ending – Generations, Nemesis, These are the Voyages, Beyond, etc. So Patrick being Patrick, I would bet that anything he is in will be good, probably good enough to win back that bad will Discovery has sown. It may even be that “must see show” on CBSAA if done well enough to make an impact.

I’m wondering if CBS is deliberately crafting the show to be “meme-able” like a lot of Picard memes have been in the past. I’m always down for more Trek memes

ML31

” I would bet that anything he is in will be good,”

If you saw Blunt Talk I doubt you would make that bet.

Arathorn

Hoping for a clip of the new show!

MattR

I’d be shocked if they didn’t have some clips for both Lower Decks and Picard.

ML31

Lower Decks MIGHT have some animatics. But as far as actual clips? Very doubtful. But I’m pretty something significant about the show will get revealed.

Picard, on the other hand, has shot a number of episodes and clips very well could be available.

TG47

Given that table reads started a month ago, I’m expecting to hear about the principal characters and who will be voicing them.

DataMat

Any idea what time period Lower Decks is at?

Tiger2

Obviously no one knows that yet but we should definitely find out at CC.

ML31

That would be my guess. They will tell us a little more about it at the con. Including the time setting, I reckon.

Tiger2

Seems like if they are bringing it to CC the plan is to give us a real idea about the show is outside of ‘everyone is really excited about it’ spiel. For some reason I didn’t even think Star Trek was going to have a big presence at CC this year although Discovery is there every year. I wasn’t even thinking about it until I saw this article.

albatrosity

I’m guessing time period will be early 2200s. So like, maybe even pre-Disco. Why, because they kept referencing the food slots whenever they pitched the show, “what the guy that pushes the button that makes the food come out does with his life” or whatever, which implies an earlier level of tech than TNG replicators. So it would free up some canon restraints by being in a period we’ve never seen on screen, giving the writers a chance to do some awesome stories in an unfamiliar era and further flesh out the canon as they’ve been doing.

Keeping up with the Cardassians

I wonder whether they will decide not to limit the setting of this show to a single specific period, but instead shift between different eras…

A bit like the way the Clone Wars series would often switch between quite a few different characters throughout its run, instead of just following the same exact ones each week.

Being an animated series obviously gives Lower Decks a lot more freedom to do something like this (for better or worse).

ML31

My guess is it would be TNG time or later. The replicator situation would still be there, that time frame just feels like it is more rife for jokes, and the show runner seems to be a huge TNG fan to begin with. Didn’t he write that book about the 8th TNG season?

Keeping up with the Cardassians

Well, that would make sense then.

Ever since I first heard about this show (and the fact that it was both animated and comedy-focused) I have been expecting something along the lines of a sketch show type of thing, focusing on a series of individual setups/scenes, rather than trying to tell any sort of coherent story.

Essentially, the type of thing that Family Guy did with Blue Harvest, in the scenes inbetween the main narrative.

This, coupled with the fact that there has been so much Star Trek, is what makes me think they might try to utilise the whole thing for maximum comedy value.

Surely the Reds Shirts watching their numbers steadily dwindle after each away mission is going to feature somewhere…but that was more of a TOS trait than TNG wasn’t it?

Am definitely curious to see how this one turns out, especially if it’s nothing like I’ve been expecting.

ML31

Of the shows they have green lit and are for sure happening, this is the one I am most looking forward to. Section 31 doesn’t excite me and throwing in Space Hitler even less so. I honestly don’t care what Picard is up to but will look just in case they make a dull character interesting. But Lower Decks… I really hope most of their joke land. In fact, I have been pining for a Star Trek comedy for quite some time. And no, Voyage Home doesn’t count. When I say “comedy” I mean where there are actual laughs.

Josiah Rowe

Re: Lower Decks: in his recent Deadline podcast interview, Kurtzman said that like the TNG episode of the same name, each episode will focus on the sort of thing that would have been the “B” story in traditional Star Trek, with the huge dramatic “A” story happening in the background but not really being focused on.

So I’m imagining that the humor will be a bit more Simpsons/sitcom than Family Guy/sketch. But I could be wrong about that.

MattR

Yeah. They’ll definitely have some character designs since the Star Trek booth is giving away pins with characters on them.

Tiger2

They will definitely have a Picard clip. CBS wants to build hype PRONTO! They already created a teaser trailer 6 months before the show will air so I have no doubt a scene or even a montage clip could be shown. I’m not going to get ahead of myself but I have no doubt footage of some kind will be shown.

Although I am shocked they didn’t do a behind the scenes video like they did for Discovery seasons 1 and 2. Maybe that could be shown too.

DeanH

Absolutely, hopefully we will see a full on trailer for Picard. If not at San Diego, at least at STLV 2019.

TG47

This announcement piques a few points of interest about Discovery…

1). Jet Reno is officially now the CHIEF ENGINEER! Wow! Does that mean we will get to see Discovery’s full fledged engine room? i.e. not just a spore drive annex (retrofitted from an expensively built armory/torpedo bay that was nixed)

2) When will Discovery actually start production in Toronto? As I noted on the last thread, publicly posted production in Ontario sheets from the various Canadian guilds have production starting on diverse dates from July 3rd to the 16th. Perhaps this is why only SMG and Tig Notaro are announced for this Con…

3) Will we get any more teasers about Short Treks? When will they air? Who have the scripts been authored by? Who will direct? Where is the animation being done for the two prototype animated shorts? Perhaps the early production dates listed for Discovery mean that another Short Trek will be produced or dialogue recorded before the full cast is together for the season premiere?

Tiger2

Wow didn’t catch Tig is officially chief engineer now! Great to know. One of the best new characters last season. Hopefully will be in more than 4 episodes too.

I’m guessing production will start this month as stated. Its still nuts two Star Trek shows will be in production at the same time again. It’s feeling like the 90s again lol. Still not quite like the old days when TNG, DS9 and VOY not only shared the same studio but even sound stages simultaneously but still cool. And technically three productions if you think of Short Treks as its own thing (which I think it will feel more like this this season if they cover other shows like Picard). Yes four if you include Lower Decks but being animated requires far less sound stages. ;)

I’m sure Short Treks will at least be mentioned. I can’t see how they won’t at least talk about the Spock/Number One short considering how much fans love these characters and actors (hence whey they even have them in a Short Trek). It was a brilliant move to have them involved in something again. I’m shocked we are getting six of them. I only thought it was the two animated ones we were getting until a week ago.

ML31

I saw the title of Chief Engineer, but since we heard nothing about this (particularly here on this site) and that it appeared in some press release before being announced, I opted to take that as a potential error in the release. It’s part of why I was curious to know who wrote it.

MattR

She was also referred to as Chief Engineer in one of the Paley Center releases, and she’s been taking part in those panels, so it seems like it might be accurate

Well, with a someone skeleton crew in the 32 century, not only is she Chief Engineer, but also Tilly wrangler and ships counselor.

Legate Damar

I’m glad Jett got promoted. That just seems like such a no brainer. She’s a fun engineer, and the show doesn’t already have a chief engineer. Now, if only they’d promote Culber to CMO.

ML31

Would that make her Stammet’s boss?

DIGINON

It depends on what they give Stammets to do. Is he a scientist? Is he the spore drive guy? Discover has shown a number of characters doing engineering work but that’s probably because they haven’t had an “official” chief engineer. Also, I’m not sure we will see Notaro’s role expanded to the extent of a Scotty or a Geordie. From what I remember, part of the reason Reno was only seen so few times in season 2 was Notaro’s limited availability. Bumping her up to a series regular would require a big time commitment on her side.

TG47

Oooh, didn’t think about that.

Stamets was originally a researcher reporting to Lorca, and later perhaps to Burnham as chief science officer.

But given how Discovery has avoided establishing any kind of normal hierarchies, who knows?

Cervantes

That STAR TREK UNIVERSE logo would have made a great title for an Enterprise-set show featuring the pre-Kirk adventures of Pike and Spock as they proceed to seek out new worlds and civilisations….

But out of what’s upcoming, I’m still curious about the PICARD show especially, so will be interested to see what snippets come out of this eventually.

I suppose they are going to announce Kurtzman is fired then. He will be there to confirm it himself. :-D

HubcapDave

I guess they’ll be doing it at both panels just to make sure they got everyone covered……B-)

I’m just wondering if some or most of the Crew of Enterprise-E are dead.

Legate Damar

Well, Data is.

ML31

But B-4 is not. Although, being a machine we are using the word “dead” in the same sense a car is “dead”.

DIGINON

Data exploded, right? So he’s not just lying around waiting to be repaired. Yes, there’s B-4 but somehow I find it difficult to believe that Starfleet would just accept B-4 “becoming” Data.

ML31

Ah.. But Nemesis ended with that little sign of hope. B-4 had remembered the Blue Skies song. Suggesting that the memory download was finally taking hold.

Keeping up with the Cardassians

Have a read of the “Cold Equations” trilogy of books by David Mack if you’d like a plausible way for Data to return. As for Starfleet…

TG47

I have mixed feelings about Data in the Relaunch novels.

I definitely prefer the way Cold Equations plotted Data’s return to the approach in the comics, and appreciated how Lal challenged Data…

But Data has become an ambiguous character…and there’s a lot of Soong in him.

Like Geordi, I grieve the sweetness of the pre-emotion chip Data and the loss of his own quest to experience a more human sentience.

Afterburn

As big a fan of TNG as I am, I have no such curiosity. If any pop up in Picard, cool, if not, I won’t say it’s any kind of missed opportunity. The only reason this show is happening is because of the popularity of the character and the actor who plays him.

I’m not sure audiences are craving a USS Titan show, or the Adventures of Captain LaForge. Worf is the only character I can see really anchoring a series, and even I feel like the time to do a followup to that cast has passed.

Josiah Rowe

My bet is that they’ll leave the fate of the Enterprise-E and its crew ambiguous for a while. We might even get a tease, like someone making a passing reference to “what happened to the Enterprise-E,” without the audience being let in on exactly what that was until a guest star shows up at a suitably dramatic moment in a later episode.

Keeping up with the Cardassians

Afterburn,

Yes, as a huge TNG fan myself, I agree with your thoughts on this…

As I understand it, the focus is specifically supposed to be about what Picard himself is up to 20 years later, not finding a way to also incorporate a group of people he worked with two decades earlier as well.

I have kept up with the events of the novels, which have now reached 7 years Post-Nemesis, and even if they WERE to be included as official canon, ‘Picard’ is to be set over a decade further on again. So things will have moved on substantially.

Like yourself, I would be perfectly happy with a brief cameo from (or mention of) one or two of the cast, but really want the show to stand on it’s own merits. I think Picard himself (and certainly Patrick Stewart) is more than good enough to sustain a show (hopefully with an excellent all-new supporting cast) without needing to look to the past.

If it happens, fine/great. Especially if it’s somehow integral to the show’s plot. If not, no problem.

That’s not to say I wouldn’t be happy to see the other cast members again. It seems like there are lots of plans for the future of Star Trek…

I’d certainly be up for the Adventures of Captain LaForge, if CBS wanted to develop that alongside what they already have planned.

Tiger2

Honestly I would be fine either way. Of course I want to see them, that’s just human nature. BUT if the story they have for Picard is great and the new cast can hold their own, it won’t be a huge deal just as long as we get updates of where they all are. They can’t be completely ignored either and I don’t think they will since it sounds like the story will deal with an event when he was on the Enterprise 15 years ago.

But I REALLY can’t see where some won’t be incorporated eventually. I just don’t really buy Kurtzman wouldn’t want to geek it up just going by the Kelvin movies and obviously now Discovery. This is the same guy who fought to include Khan in STID who didn’t need to be there AT ALL and even now has an entire TV show (ugh) around the guy on the table. Hopefully that has died off completely since no one has mentioned it lately but who knows? But Kurtzman seems to love using fan service as much as possible. We were told we were never seeing Spock on Discovery until we did. And in this situation, they literally have the entire original cast still around, very popular in the fanbase obviously and active.

So I do think the plan IS to use TNG cast members at SOME point only because no one has ruled it out. The few times someone has asked them about it, they say its ‘possible’ which for Hollywood speak means more than likely. My only real guess is they want to hold them back in the first season and just tell whatever story they are telling and build on the new cast. But if enough fans complain its not ‘TNG’ enough or viewership drops over it, then look for season 2 to have Riker show up with Troi on the Enterprise F and needs Picard help to solve some big space phenomenon we learn by the end of the season was all of Q’s doing to taunt Picard.

Oh and Section 31 will be there naturally because its Section 31. ;)

Keeping up with the Cardassians

Is there definitely going to be a second season of Picard though..?

From the way I have read any interviews on the subject (and I might just be mis-reading them) the talk seems to be of how Sir Patrick Stewart was interested in coming back to tell the particular story that they have developed about his character. That story being what we’ll see in the upcoming show…

It was a big thing getting Sir PS back after all this time. He is obviously not as young as he was though; so it would be completely understandable if committing to filming multiple seasons, with a regular commute from the UK, was more than he was prepared to take on at this stage of his life.

A single one-off series being a much different prospect.

Granted, if the show is a ratings hit and PS is interested in continuing, then it’s a moot point.

But I have been assuming (for now at least) that Picard is to be a one-off ‘event’ season, telling a story arc over its 10 episodes, rather than an ongoing one like Discovery.

Has there been anything that confirms otherwise..?

Josiah Rowe

Yes, there has.

“Speaking to TrekMovie at New York Comic Con on Saturday, executive producers Alex Kurtzman and Heather Kadin confirmed that actually, the plan is for new Picard show to be an ongoing Star Trek series. Heather Kadin specifically confirmed they are planning for the Picard series to run multiple seasons.”

https://trekmovie.com/2018/10/06/exclusive-star-trek-executive-producers-reveal-picard-series-production-details/

Keeping up with the Cardassians

Oh, that’s good to know.I clearly missed that one.

Thanks for confirming.

Tiger2

Stewart already said he wants there to be multiple seasons and in fact stated there is at least a plan for three. No one makes one season shows, certainly not Star Trek lol.

And he’s only doing 10 episodes a year. It would probably be a different story if it was like the TNG days of 26 episodes a season.They probably determined it would be 10 because that’s what he’s willing to do every season that’s it on.

Keeping up with the Cardassians

Thanks for the info.

I was aware that one season would have been unusual, in this day and age. But then again, this would have been a pretty exceptional situation: Patrick Stewart prepared to return as Captain Picard, so I suspect that CBS would have been prepared to proceed anyway, even if that’s all that PS was prepared to commit to.

As it stands, and as yourself and Josiah Rowe have pointed out, it’s now a moot point.

Let’s hope for at least 3 great seasons then…

Josiah Rowe

It’s not quite accurate to say that “no one makes one season shows.” “Good Omens,” probably Amazon Prime’s biggest recent show, was a 6-episode miniseries, and there aren’t any plans for a second series. And, of course, network TV still cancels shows every so often, so even when there might be plans for more than one season, occasionally one is all you get.

But that’s a side point, because (as seen above) the producers of “Picard” are planning for multiple seasons, and there’s no reason to assume they would change course on that.

tezna

A miniseries isn’t a series.

ML31

The term “miniseries” I think is now used to denote a one off. A one time thing as opposed to more episodes coming down the pipe next year.

Afterburn

@tezna

How is it not a series? It has the word in the title. You don’t make much sense.

It’s not an ONGOING series, no. It is a MINI series.

Tiger2

Those are miniseries, ie, an extended long movie. And as you just showed even those get extended seasons if they are popular enough like a movie can get a sequel.

But Picard is an actual TV show, its designed to go multiple seasons on day one. If it was a miniseries then you would have a stronger point.

ML31

Also in these days of short seasons most shows have a two season order to start with. They can include an opt out but nearly all these shows are planned for two seasons when they start.

TG47

As someone who also has followed the TNG characters through the Relaunch novels, I feel much the same way.

In fact, I would be disappointed if the other TNG characters were ‘held back’ in their development as people and StarFleet officers in order to ‘keep the family together’ to satisfy some fans.

To me, caring about the TNG characters means wanting them to grow and to be successful and have integrity as officers and as people. That can’t happen without changing their relationship to one another as it was rooted in a military hierarchy.

As a TOS fan, at a certain point I was happier to see Sulu on the bridge of his own ship, than to see Uhura stuck as a perpetual comes officer.

For the most part, I’ve been pleased with how the Relaunch novels have let the TNG characters grow and change. Like the Destiny trilogy, my preference would be to respect that work and confirm it in the new shows than make new futures for characters that won’t get much screen time at this point.

Last observation: Marina Sirtis has gone from saying when asked by reporters ‘no one has approached me’ to ‘I have many Trek-related NDAs’. Could be that CBS has reminded the TNG cast that even saying that they haven’t been approached can be seen as disclosing something… or it could be that she’s actually got news she can’t share.

Afterburn

And really, following up on one elderly cast member is enough. The TNG crew is now older than the TOS cast was during the 6th film. I don’t want to see the Simpsons’ “geriatric Trek” parody become reality.

EJD1984

I suspect that there very well could be a Pike series announcement. :-)

TG47

I’m thinking that those who are looking for a Pike announcement at Star Trek Las Vegas are more likely to be right…

It’s a dedicated Star Trek con and CBS has some organizational control.

I suspect that this one will focus on the continuity between the 3 greenlighted adult CBSAA series: Discovery, Picard and Lower Decks.

HubcapDave

I concur that Vegas would be the place for that kind of news.

Martin

It may be here or at STLV. If there is to be a Pike show it likely means no S31 show, or having that merge into the Pike show. They will want to make the announcement to maximize the surprise, so if there is enough moving on that that things could spill before Las Vegas, they might announce at CC

TG47

Hey Martin, could you stop promoting the either-or sibling rivalry between a Pike show and S31.

If CBS wants live Trek on CBSAA year round, there’s room for a fourth offering. Each show is only running 10-14 weeks. And Pike would appeal to a different market niche.

What we do know is that it takes a year or more to get a show into production.

With that, even if a Pike show is worked out conceptually and the key actors are on board, we would likely only see more Short Treks or a cross-border appearance on the S31 show to start.

But there is no big picture strategic reason not to have both by 2021.

Martin, S31 isn’t intended for North American audiences. Like her or hate her, Michelle Yeoh is huge in Asia, the S31 show is intended to build the international brand, like the animated shows are aimed at younger audiences. There is a concerted effort to build the brand now, something that should have happened ten years ago. That’s going to involve programming not aimed at the traditional, middle aged white male fan base.

Tiger2

I don’t know Phil, I don’t agree with your point about S31 too much. Yes I get they may want Yeoh to grab a more ‘international audience’ but my guess is the overwhelming majority of people watching will still be Americans and/or Star Trek fans end of the day. Especially since Star Trek fans are very aware of what Section 31 even is and made an entire season around them on Discovery which was basically done to get people interested in the new show.

I have no doubt that they want the show to have a more global appeal but yes I think the show is COMPLETELY intended for American audiences as well. I have no idea how it couldn’t be? Especially if they end up crossing over a lot of Discovery/TOS characters (assuming it takes place in the 23rd century again) from Pike to L’rell. You only care about those characters if you watched previous Trek shows.

Let’s not forget the Kelvin movies were also made with an international audience in mind that the TOS and TNG films never got, but the main target audience were still Americans nevertheless. Because its Star Trek’s biggest market and probably will stay that way. They did everything to make it a bigger deal in China, especially with STID and Beyond (those films were only made in 3D at the time because its what China demanded of any American movies for higher distribution in their theaters) but those movies only made a fraction of what they did in America. My guess is viewing for S31 will follow the same similar pattern and end of the day the show will live and die by how many are watching it in America and not Asia.

ML31

Phil, a couple of people have made this claim from time to time and I just don’t buy it. Yeoh is not nearly as big in east Asia as she once was. She was not retained just to get popular in that part of the world. She was retained because compared to the others in Discovery she was the biggest name they hired. Period. Make no mistake. The primary audience is meant to be North Americans. If they can make inroads internationally, wonderful. And they can do some things to help achieve that end. But ultimately, they need to be a success here. In the US and Canada first and foremost.

DIGINON

@ML31: That’s not necessarily true, anymore. The shows need to be a success for whoever is paying for them. As far as we know, that’s mostly Netflix in the case of Discovery. For Picard, we haven’t heard much but most likely Amazon is footing a large part of the bill. If the shows do well in the US that’s nice for CBS but the shows need to perform well in the international market. Otherwise, Netflix/Amazon would pull their funding and that would probably be the end for those shows. Unless CBS decides to fund the Section 31 show mostly on their own it will also have to be successful internationally to survive.

ML31

There is truth to that. But it feels like quite the reach to say the Section 31 show is being done to showcase Yeoh for the east Asian market.

Tiger2

Yes that’s the point I don’t buy. Sure, they want to appeal to an international audience, ESPECIALLY if you have streaming sites like Amazon and Netflix paying 10s of millions of dollars for that job. But I don’t remotely buy the show is being made FOR an international audience either. I just don’t see any proof of that. They may think using Yeoh may get others interested who wasn’t interested in Star Trek before, but I haven’t seen or heard Yeoh being specifically promoted any differently abroad on Discovery and she’s been there from episode one. She could be but IDK personally.

And I just think the premise of Section 31 is just too inside baseball for a lot of new fans to be that interested in it. Maybe the show will be less…complicated, but if going by the second season of Discovery, you really have to understand how the organization works and its relationship and history to the Federation to care. Section 31 is a really deep dive in Star Trek lore only hardcore geeks like us even cares about. I just don’t know how appealing it would be to watch for newbies, but that’s sort of why people question if making a S31 show is the right direction to go in the first place.

To me I think they just have a known actress and want to utilize her, but there is no proof they expect Yeoh to pull in mostly an international audience. I think she’s going to bring in mostly people who are already watching Discovery now outside of North America. Maybe a few extra fans of hers but that’s probably about it just like they may expect fans who love Patrick Stewart outside of his Star Trek work to watch, but they shouldn’t kid themselves on that either. It’s going to be hardcore TNG era fans carrying that show. They named it Picard for pete sakes, that’s a signal to the hardcore bunch this is going to be a deep dive into the character they already know and love. But I think most future Trek shows will still mostly be watched by long time Trek fans like it is with Discovery today.

The Nickelodeon show is a bit different since its mostly aimed for kids and actually on a kids network so that may actually bring in a new audience I guess. But I expect plenty of middle age men watching too lol.

DIGINON

@Tiger2: I may be completely wrong but my guess is the Section 31 show will be set-up as a fun spy show with Star Trek elements. In essence, I believe they will make it much more accessible to a general audience than the Section 31 story-line in Discovery’s 2nd season.

Tiger2

Hopefully you’re right. But if its anything like Discovery second season then yeah.

ML31

I’m not a fan of the concept of a Section 31 show myself. But there is no reason why both shows cannot happen.

tezna

Funding is a reason. Its not unlimited, you end up having to be selective what you produce.

ML31

So far, that doesn’t seem to be an impediment. In fact, It seems obvious that CBS is playing the long game here. Willing to take on international partners to help them achieve that long term goal, for one thing.

Afterburn

Agreed- it seems they’re willing to produce any idea they think is viable– this is their diamond franchise and have wisely realized that being cheap is not in the best interests of the brand.

TG47

Not to mention that CBS is not looking at a simplistic measure of return on investment.

Clearly, TPTB are looking at how the new offerings build the value of the brand/franchise and how they draw new clients or sustain the interest of existing ones.

The fact that CBS has global marketing, merchandise and potential use of the CBSAA series as summer replacements on the network a few years down the line demonstrates they are conscious of the bigger profit picture.

You might be disappointed…

TG47

If you are meaning Pike’s Enterprise might not happen, I’ll agreed Phil.

But that may be more because Mount has other commitments, professional and personal, and the logistics just can’t work.

It doesn’t appear to have anything to do with what other shows are in production or development.

Afterburn

I am hopefully he’s available enough to do 10 episodes every year or two. And if not, there’s always the possibility that they could do a season without him– a mission or two where Pike is MIA/off the ship, with Spock in command, and shows up as more of a guest star/part time player.

ML31

#1 would be left in command. But these short season shows seem to take longer to produce than previous 20+ episode shows. So he would still need to be on set for a good chunk of time.

Tiger2

They only take longer to produce because they are aiming for a more cinematic feel and scope. The other shows all looked great for their time, but they were shot like every other show on TV, tight and lean. They had a lot of great FX work, but it still felt more like typical TV, just well done.

But shows like Discovery are shot closer to what premium cable shows are done and given way more time with weeks to shoot an episode as opposed to days. But thats exactly WHY these shows have a much shorter episode slate because the trend is changing that quality is better over quantity which is the old way of television (although MANY 22+ episode shows still look and written great, but very of those are heavy FX shows like Discovery is). And that you can pour more money with less episodes.

The effects of Discovery last season really did say it all. It really did feel like I was watching a movie with a lot of those space shots, especially the premiere and finale. A lot of it was really stunning. But they can only produce that level of shots with fewer episodes, not more. And they had nearly a year to perfect the entire season. The other shows had less than half that and more episodes to boot.

I heard it took 6-7 months to shoot the new Stranger Things season and that’s only 8 episodes. That show wouldn’t make it on CBS lol.

ML31

Everything you said I was already aware of. But for all the money and time those shows use to achieve their cinematic look, only a few are really worth spending time watching. I’d much rather get more episodes with better writing and stories with much lower production values than slickly produced garbage.

And I’m not specifically referring to Discovery. Just speaking in general.

Tiger2

But I think most people would argue its better to have quality over quantity. HBO could’ve slashed GOT budget by half every episode and delivered 20 episodes a season instead of 10. But that was obviously the smart way to go because every episode felt like watching a mini-movie and that show is probably what helped set part of the trend we are seeing today. IIRC, I think even the producers referenced it when they were talking about how DIS was going to be created.

But sure just because something costs more and take longer to make doesn’t automatically mean its just going to better. We have tons of actual movies with $150+ million dollars and years to make to prove thats not the case either (STID comes to mind ;)). And if its still garbage with fewer episodes and higher production values, I highly doubt its going to be any better with just more bad episodes and cheaper looking productions to boot. None of that has anything to do with the number of episodes, just the direction of the writing, period. But I think its MUCH better for writers to only have 13 episodes to think about as opposed to 22. There is also a reason a great majority of shows that goes on to win Emmy’s are usually in the 13 episode format. Because they have the time and money to produce a higher quality show. Thats a good thing.

And of course most of us want more Star Trek episodes, but I think what they are doing now, making multiple shows while still adhering to a smaller order is a smart way to go so you feel like you are getting a nice selection of shows and will probably be getting 30+ episodes a year with the multiple shows around.

The old way of TV is just dying out in more ways than one.

ML31

The difference is the final product. In the case of GoT, the final product was compelling. It worked. It successfully juggled a bunch of stories and characters at the same time. Discovery, on the other hand, was a colossal failure at that. They had bad stories. Bad characters. And failed to juggle the characters stories with the bigger picture. So I think they needed to take a step back and reevaluate what they had. What they did instead was “run back to mama” by bringing in Pike and Spock. This made the show a bit more interesting but the foundation was still a problem. All the old problems remained but we were distracted by something interesting. Something that will not be there when the show resumes next year. My guess is that even with the time setting shift, the show will STILL have a lot of problems. Now that reevaluation may not end up with focusing on more character and Trek-like human condition stories. But cutting back on the production values and focusing on better writing and story telling really ought to have been on the table and discussed. Of course, if you can get both, like other short season shows have done, then hot damn! Awesome! But from what I’ve seen while there area lot of short season shows out there, there aren’t very many good ones. So I guess it’s harder than we think to produce something that has the best of all worlds. Maybe we were expecting too much from our new Trek? I don’t know. I’m just rambling now…

Afterburn

If there’s anything I’ve learned from modern “cinematic” TV shows (Walking Dead, Westworld, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones) it’s that high production values will get you more of an audience than good writing alone.

Ideally you want both, but if i’m a network head, i definitely want to sink tons of money into my production.

And it’s not like writers and producers aren’t TRYING to write good stories, they just don’t always succeed. It’s not as if CBS isn’t investing in good writers, good producers, and good directors. We can argue over that, but I guarantee you that CBS thinks the people in place are good at what they do, and can produce quality stories. You may not agree, and that’s fine, but I doubt they chose people they didn’t think would produce great television.

TLDR: CBS isn’t making a choice between good stories and high production value, so it’s not as if they could cut the budget and make a better show.

TG47

Afterburn, it seems as though for whatever reason the writing for Discovery has been rushed and under pressure from the start.

Too many conflicting concepts or something…to the point that production has always been getting ahead of the writing even if production takes a long time.

Discovery would really benefit from the approach that The Orville has of making sure a full season of scripts are written, not just broken, before production starts. That way, polishing and fresh-eyed reviews can happen during production.

Picard was supposed to be using that approach according to early statements by Kurtzman and Stewart, but I’m wondering now…

But at least they’ve managed to get 5 scripts done before production starts for S3 of Discovery.

Denny C

That could work. Anson Mount indicated that the production schedule for Discovery was unusually long and I get the impression he enjoys location shoots (quite a bit of Hell On Wheels was filmed outdoors).

A 10 episode season (as opposed to 13 or more) would probably take the edge off for him.

ML31

If they really are working on it and all their ducks are lined up, then LV is most likely where it would get announced. (He says keeping his fingers crossed but deep down feels like it will not happen)

Afterburn

I’m hoping that the Short Trek with Spock will be a lead in, and perhaps why they took down the IG post. Trying to keep it as secretive as possible. My hope anyway.

Joe Smooth

I’m a wee bit confused 🤷🏻‍♂️ as it’s been said that Star Trek: Picard will be on Amazon Prime.

That’s just for international subscribers – Correct? Also…suppose it’s too late for it now but

wouldn’t it be the icing on the cake IF through some freak happenstance (Story) they put

the money and story into repurposing the Borg Queen but instead of immediate threat she

served as a Universal guide of Star systems and the numerous alien beings/races?

Sort of like Nelix but on a much broader scale with a definite purpose and role.

TG47

Amazon Prime has the streaming rights for Picard outside the US and Canada.

That said, it sounds like CBSAA is an available add-on to Amazon Prime in the US.

In Canada, CBSAA is not among the options for stacking on Amazon Prime. It’s BellMedia (Space or Crave) or a CBSAA subscription.

I’m firmly in the camp that thinks that David Mack’s Destiny trilogy of post-Nemesis Relaunch novels are the last word on the Borg.

I can’t see anyone coming up with anything better, and would prefer any future television products to respect that work.

JRT!

But novels are still not socalled canon though,or has that changed?

TG47

The novels and comics are canon until superseded by television or cinematic productions.

In the case of the post-Nemesis Relaunch novels, Simon & Schuster was permitted to develop large story arcs that moved all the series forward.

Mack’s Destiny trilogy is among the best, and is just great science fiction, not just great tie-in fiction.

It takes place in 2081 and doesn’t conflict with the destruction of Romulus in 2487 that the Picard show will validate.

But my point is that while a lot of the Trek-lit could be take it or leave it, when there are books of a caliber well above most of of the Trek movies, writing them out of canon only sets the new product up for comparison.

We saw that with how Control the AI was worked into Discovery. The writers seem to have borrowed a bit from Mack’s S31 and Control novels without getting the underlying premise.

Many of us were surprised and disappointed that Discovery turned Control into Terminator-type trope instead of using the much more subtle concept from the novels, which has a great deal of allegorical relevance in this day of Alexa and Echo Dots.

JRT!

Thanks for the clarification,appreciate it.

TG47

Glad to share JRT!

By the way, Destiny mainly takes place in 2481, not 2081…my predictive software can be aggressive…

Hope you’ll give some of the Relaunch novels a try, particularly David Mack.

If you appreciated the DS9 episode about Nog’s reaction to the trauma of losing his leg, then there is already a David Mack story that you admire.

Destiny is a sprawling four captain tapestry, with not only Picard, Riker, a recently promoted Ezri Dax, but even a call back/forward to a lesser known captain from another era.

But as Legate Demar observes below, the death count is high. How could it not be in a serious quadrant-reshaping confrontation with the Borg? The death count feels earned though, and the losses affect the Federation profoundly.

Even though we know Patrick Stewart wouldn’t be interested, very many of us here on this board have said we’d really like Destiny to be made into a miniseries.

JRT!

Thanks. Sure sounds interesting. I don’t really read Trek books anymore,but have always wanted to try one of the books that my friend has written. We’ll see,lol!

ML31

That is correct, JRT. The novels and comics are more in the category of “fan fiction”. They are not canon in any way shape or form unless an official TV or movie production uses there story or lifts elements from them. In which case, only those elements become canon. Not the story events themselves.

Denny C

That is correct. CBS AA is available for subscription on Prime in the U.S. (though, sadly, ad free option is not available on Prime).

Also, David Mack should be in a writer’s room. I worked with him many years back. Heck of a nice guy, great writer, a wealth of knowledge.

TG47

Definitely, Mack should be in a writers room.

NY Film School grad, story and script credits for well-received DS9 episodes, and great Trek-lit across the 23rd and 24th centuries…TPTB should be making it worth his while to switch coasts…

Cool that you have known him personally and worked with him.

Denny C

He even included me in a novel which, as you might imagine, was very cool. I mean, sure, I died but there I was in print!

Keeping up with the Cardassians

Yes, completely agree about the Destiny trilogy.

I too am hoping that it will be respected by any post-Nemesis shows, Picard obviously being the first out the gate.

Would be ideal if it was incorporated into the ‘official’ canon, but I would likely be equally pleased if it simply isn’t contradicted – so that those of us who wish to consider it canon can continue to do so.

Legate Damar

I love Destiny, but there is no way that the TV shows are going to conform to that. That had the Borg launching a full scale invasion of the Alpha Quarrant and killing billions. That is the kind of thing that would still be talked about by the time of Picard, but they aren’t going to want to alienate the vast majority of fans who haven’t read the novels. The Borg will come back to TV eventually, and the TV writers won’t be bound to Destiny.

Keeping up with the Cardassians

Legate Damar,

You’re probably absolutely correct in what you’re saying here. But one can always hope…until that hope is dashed.

The novels still refer to the events of Destiny, of course, though with perhaps less regularity in some of the more recent offerings than in those which immediately followed it. Yet only a few years are supposed to have passed there. ‘Picard’ would be set the better part of two decades later…

They could always look to incorpate the events as some sort of huge event that took place off-screen in the intervening years since Nemesis.

Similar to the way in which a lot of fantasy stories often take place in the aftermath of some sort of ‘Great Battle’.

We saw enough in the DS9 pilot to know the effects of Wolf 359 on Sisko, though obviously you would likely have gained more from this scene if you had also seen TBOBW.

As Picard had already worked through a lot of his Borg ‘demons’ on-screen in First Contact; the events of Destiny wouldn’t be as central to his own personal development (i.e. required viewing) as much as they would be a plot device, which the show-runners could emphasise as much or as little as they liked.

Essentially, it would be including something for those who had bought and read the novels, without alienating those who didn’t.

All of this having been said, I suspect that you will be proven correct in the end.

Matt

I notice the Delta has been repaired

PaulB

Has there ever been an actual explanation for the split-delta design in Discovery?

Denny C

They’re using the split delta for Picard as well. Why, I honestly don’t know.

DeanH

The USS Challenger (circa 2390 seen on Star Trek Voyager) comm badges used a hollow and split delta, so as I said above, each show and timeframe seems to have its own iteration of the Star Trek delta and comm badge. IMO not a biggie, but everyone has their right to an opinion regarding the delta badge of our collective favorite tv show.

PaulB

@DeanH – As I remember, the Challenger comm badge didn’t break/divide the delta. That’s only been done in Discovery, and it’s an odd bit of symbolism to use for no reason. It implies some division or combination or overlap in Starfleet…

Anyway, yes, “everyone has their right to an opinion” about it, but I’m merely wondering if there has been an official/canon explanation for it. (The comm badge on Challenger was from a later era, so the changes made sense, and the delta wasn’t split/overlapped.)

DeanH

I am not sure what needed to be repaired. The GENERAL SHAPED delta logo seems to be the one that has always been used for the entire universe – with each show having a unique take on its use. Of course TOS violated the proper use of the delta from day one, even though Justman and Roddenberry made it clear ALL starfleet ships and personnel were to use the same delta shirt patch. Later on the exact shape and angles of the delta used in TNG is very different from those used in DS9 and Voyager plus the movies. Today, Discovery simply uses another iteration of the delta. Not to diminish the legitimacy of those who don’t like the Discovery logo but IMO it seems funny that nobody complained about all the different versions previously used in other series.

jako

Hmmm.

I like the ship hull texture of the “STAR TREK”…

TG47

It’s interesting.

But I note that it creates an optical illusion of the delta being concave rather than convex.

I don’t have a problem with it being concave. Just a bit surprised, even if I like the look overall.

Fred M

So their display…is the Picard section of Star Trek: The Experience?

albatrosity

I like the title! It’s fitting since Trek not only is a show about the universe, but it was the first “cinematic universe” and blazed the trail for basically every fandom that exists today. But I feel like Trek could use a modern “rebranding” in terms of its visual style. The logo feels way too flat. Trek needs a modern face lift for the entire brand, which I think was what the Discovery font was supposed to be, but is really reserved for Disco only. Now that Trek has become a “universe” it needs a more inclusive font that looks more modern than any of the other series fonts. Maybe it could be an update of the TMP font, or the TOS font [as long as it isn’t ugly like Disco’s].

Wow, just thinking about Disco font, I’m getting angry over Disco and its entire aesthetic, how it took so much from the original Trek universe and “corrupted” it into an uglier form. The ships are ugly. The themes are ugly. And it’s not popular enough to be the new “brand” of Trek on its own.

TG47

As I noted above, I suspect that the PR/Marketing team are test-driving some new things at the Cons this summer before finalizing them.

The new font and symbol rolled out for this panel haven’t taken over the official site, even if they look to be derived from the old one on that site.

The ‘Star Trek Universe’ branding is for the panel, not forever.

It can take a bit to lock down branding, and the balance between fresh and new vs so new that it loses your base market is one that marketers have been struggling with for consumer products since before Trek existed.

MattR

I don’t think it’s just for the panel. Fansets posted that logo on their social media pages at the beginning of May. So it’s something that licensees were given at least two months ago

Afterburn

I kind of like how the texture on the delta logo is the Enterprise deck plating, rather than just some random steel/chrome look.

Tiger2

Well you have to look at Discovery as the ‘flag ship’ of the new Kurtzman era of Trek, since it was the first out of the gate obviously, although the shows themselves sound much more separated from that show (especially since Discovery won’t have anything to do with the 23rd century from this point on). But as TG47 stated, it may not be anything more than just for the comic con appearance and not for all Trek going forward.

But I agree with you, I think the logo could use an entire new rebranding in general.

DeanH

Yeah, I agree. Even though it may anger SOME of the fans – they definitely need a refresh, while still trying to keep the overall look and feel of the delta.

Michael Chabon put a soul in “Spiderman 2”, one of the finest movies i ever saw (and read). With him on board i trust the PICARD show will be worthy of the character

Jonboc

The Twilight Zone Experience sounds fun. Aside from Peel’s rather lackluster delivery as narrator, I’ve enjoyed the latest incarnation. Most episodes ran a little long, but still fun…and often, as in the case of the Trumpish child elected president, scathingly on point. As far as Trek goes, it has never been as irrelevant to me as it is now. Might tune in to Picard, though. We’ll see, as I learn more about it.

Afterburn

Totally respect someone’s disinterest in the new Trek. It doesn’t have to be for everyone, is what I think people forget. The good news is that the franchise is clearly thriving, even if it not everyone loves it. Time for Trek to evolve, and grow.

TG47

Agreed Afterburn…

And if Jonbloc, and others like him, find Picard or just one other new Trek offering appealing enough to try, then Kurtzman and CBS’ strategy of a menu of diverse offerings is on track.

Afterburn

A franchise like Trek, like your stock portfolio, should be diverse. If all you put out are products that all feel the same, you’ll end up with the current Star Wars film series, or 90s Trek, products that get progressively staler, and audiences quickly lose interest in.

DataMat

We haven’t actually seen anything other than Discovery yet so no one can say how different the other ‘products’ actually are until we the audience actually see them ourselves in the coming months. Kurtzman the overseer has said they will all be different but talk is cheap. Let us wait for reality to hit before we can say that these shows will all feel very different from each other.
I want Trek to be successful. I’m looking forward to seeing the Picard show and I’m of an open mind to Discovery going forward, although I’ve not really followed the show so far.

Afterburn

@DataMat

No arugment there, just going off what’s been said and put out there.

Tiger2

Personally I thought the shows in Trek in the 90s were diverse enough. And they only weren’t more diverse because UPN wanted just ship based shows and similar to TNG. Berman was the guy who created DS9, still the most unique Star Trek show and never gotten anything like it again. If he had it his way, Voyager and Enterprise would’ve been very different products too and he did fight for Enterprise to at least be a prequel and not just other advance ship in the 24th century.

I do like what Kurtzman is doing overall though, especially having shows in different centuries. Ironically its also part of the reason we might not get a Pike show either, because it will basically just be Discovery on the Enterprise just like Voyager was TNG on that ship. I think he wants each show to have a different mandate from each other, hence S31. But with Disovery in a completely time frame at now, it will make it easier to have the Pike show carry on adventures in the 23rd century.

I’m also hoping Lower Decks is in a different century from Picard and Discovery (well thats not hard anymore lol) and can be in another time frame entirely. It doesn’t have to be in a completely different century or anything, just in its own era although I am pushing for a post-Picard time frame.

DeanH

I think that the shows on UPN were diverse… for a U.S. audience. IMO the new reality is that SOME shows are now made for a global audience. And IF the producers want the cast ethnicity to reflect earth’s population, then the show should perhaps push diversity to a new level. Of course that may make SOME a little uncomfortable – that doesn’t make one prejudiced or racist, it is somewhat human nature and honestly is not what tv viewers are used to. I am from Toronto and back in the late 1980s, the city forecasted that those with a white European background would be a minority in the city sometime in the early 21st century – and I can say that did “concern” me and some others. That said, today that has happened and the GTA metro area is apparently the most multicultural city in the world and it is a great place to live – all you have to do is look at the Raptors fans that were in Jurassic Park during the NBA finals and at the parade to get a picture of the city’s diversity. I guess the question is – SHOULD today’s Star Trek try to reflect something similar? 50/50 male female split, probably only about 10-20 percent white males? CBS will decide because in the end, it will all depend on what will make them money – appealing to an expanded global viewership OR primarily to a domestic and incumbent audience. Hopefully they can do BOTH.

Tiger2

I was mostly talking about about diversity in the style of the shows, but I hear you.

I think you’re speaking to the choir most people here. I’m not white and grew up in L.A. which is very diverse. One of the reasons I liked Star Trek because it showed a more diverse crew which is a reality I grew up in, but not everyone does of course. I am a male but I also grew up in a mostly women household. When you’re raised by a single mother and three sisters, it never occur to you they are any less capable than a man is. And I lived in multiple countries and been on every continent on the planet, part of that because Star Trek encouraged me to want to explore in my own way and still do today.

And movies reflect that more and more now since its global audience has become so important over the years. I don’t think anyone is saying Star Trek shows can’t be more diverse. It is one of the few things I’m happy to see they did with Discovery and put a woman person of color as the lead and added gay characters, but end of the day Star Trek is still mostly an American phenomenon. The overwhelming majority of people who will watch it will be Americans. Every Star Trek show and movie has reflected that. More people could be watching Discovery abroad on Netflix than AA of course, but since no one is sharing any figures we really don’t know.

But Americans ourselves are very diverse obviously since we come from every culture and nationality. There was just a time white audiences (read middle America) dictated what should be shown, that’s just no longer the case anymore. And to give middle America credit, most don’t seem to have an issue with diversity on TV that much either anymore.

But American TV shows are seen in every corner of the globe, I know I watched them in every corner, from Australia to Cambodia, so it only makes sense from a financial viewpoint to show more diversity as our world become more and more Netflixed and Amazoned making it more easier than ever to watch them.

tezna

You can overdo diversity by trying to appeal to groups that have no interest in your product, while alienating your traditional core audience.

I can tell you right now that Asia as a whole has no interest in Star Trek. They have their own varied interests and franchises.

Afterburn

90s Trek was not diverse in style. They had slightly different tastes, so to speak, but they were all generally the same flavor.

Tiger2

We just have to agree to disagree. TNG and VOY felt similar but DS9 was on a very different level in so many ways. The biggest it was the only show to have an over riding arc through its entire show. No other show has done that since including Discovery. ENT also felt different, especially in seasons 3 and 4 where it too because more serialized but took a very different approach on how DS9 did it.

But I know this is all subjective. I get what you’re saying, I just don’t agree it was all the same flavor or else TNG fans would’ve loved Enterprise. There definitely was a difference to me for sure.

Afterburn

I’ll agree DS9 had its differences, but at the end of the day, was still substantially similar, with many of the same character archetypes (and several of the same characters lets not forget). And the “overriding arc” that so many rave about was not as integrated as it could have been, nor as deep as current shows are. I’m not coming down on it– love that show– but it’s still just TNG a little to the left, VOY was TNG a bit to the right.

Yes, within the insular world of Trek, each show had its differences, but in the grand scheme of TV, they all felt substantially similar to a point where mass audiences felt they were all the “pretty much the same.” Which was the goal: because TNG was such a massive hit, they didn’t want to stray too far from the formula. The only reason DS9 was as different as it was, was because TPTB sort of took their hands off the wheel, and it was sort of the redheaded stepchild of the group, still airing in syndication while VOY and ENT were on their own network.

So my hope is that Picard is very different than DSC (as much as I enjoy that show), and S31 is very different than both, that lower decks embraces the zany comedy, that the Nickelodeon show really runs with the kid friendly adventure, and we can have a franchise with 5 very different shows, each with their own unique style and genre.

ML31

So I guess what you are saying is that all those Trek shows were the same because they were all space dramas in the established Trek universe. Like how all hospital dramas are the same because they are all doctor based shows in a world we all know.

DeanH

Yeah I have to agree that DS9 was indeed very different story content and different from a serial vs episodic standpoint. In the end I liked both. Btw Tiger2, I hope all is well down in LA after the 7.1 earthquake out in Ridgecrest. Being from Toronto, our city is having a rough time seeing Kawhi leave for LA, but you sure can’t fault a guy for wanting to go home to SoCal.

DeanH

I am a little concerned about how Picard will be received by the fandom. I am fully prepared for a completely different series from TNG but I don’t think SOME fans are. Remember it is one 10 episode season long story arc so just think of something very dark, negative, with a lot of conflict like TNG’s Chain of Command BUT over 10 episodes. I am not sure if that is going to be accepted well by some who long for a whimsical epilogue at the end of each show.

jako

But are you watching trek for “fan reactions” or for what you think and feel about it?

DeanH

Very good point and one that needs to be reinforced every now and then.

ML31

I, for one, am REALLY hoping it is VERY different from TNG. I really want Picard to be going through something that makes him worth producing 10 episodes around him. If he’s the same guy we saw for 7 seasons on TNG then what’s the point?

Tezna

Yeah, but no one wants to see him being portrayed as some miserable old codger on the verge of senility.

ML31

I wouldn’t argue that you are wrong. But I would make the case that even THAT situation had the potential to be more interesting than the perfect specimen we saw on the bridge of the Enterprise for 7 seasons.