One of the big bits of news that emerged from the Star Trek: Picard panel last weekend at San Diego Comic-Con was that Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis were set to return to their roles of Riker and Troi for the new show. In a new interview, Frakes talks about what it was like shooting Picard this week and more.
Riker and Troi are still together in Star Trek: Picard
Speaking to IGN to promote his upcoming appearance at the Star Trek Las Vegas convention, Jonathan Frakes talked about returning to the role of Riker, which he shot this week saying he “was nervous,” adding:
I hadn’t done it for… Nemesis was what? 17 years, 18 years [ago]. Luckily it was with my old pal, and I had just directed two episodes of the show. So I did [it] with Patrick who is just… He’s crushing it on this series. He’s just on fire. The trailer’s awesome.
In Star Trek Nemesis, Riker and Troi got married and the film ended with Riker’s promotion to captain of the USS Titan. Frakes gave a brief update on where things are at two decades later for the Riker-Trois:
Yeah, the stuff is great. I can’t obviously tell you, but Marina and I… Well, you’ll see where we are. We’re together, and it’s quite… it’s non-military. I’ll say that.
Picard says goodbye to Riker and Troi in Star Trek Nemesis
The trailer and other promotional materials and appearances related to Star Trek: Picard have established that Jean-Luc Picard has retired from Starfleet over a decade before the show picks up his story in 2399. From what Frakes says, it’s possible William Riker and Deanna Troi have also moved on from Starfleet. It would explain why Picard seeks help from an unknown admiral as seen in the Picard trailer, instead of his former first officer, who would likely be an admiral himself by 2399.
Picard speaks to a Starfleet admiral, as seen in the SDCC Star Trek: Picard trailer
Directing Picard is not like directing Discovery
Earlier this year Jonathan Frakes directed two episodes of Picard and in his IGN interview, he revealed he is about to head to Toronto to prep for directing another episode of Discovery. [Frakes told TrekMovie earlier this year he would be directing the third episode of Discovery’s third season along with another episode later.] Speaking to IGN, he contrasted the different shooting styles used for Discovery and Picard:
Well, it’s not the same deal because Disco has a very cinematic, conscious sort of J.J. [Abrams] lens flare style, and that works for Disco, and the sets are built for that, and there’s a lot going on. Picard is a little more contemplative, and so you can’t be unmotivated camera moves and all kinds of lens flares. And all that J.J. stuff doesn’t fly so much on Picard unless you’re in the middle of some sort of action. So the shooting style is a little bit different. You’ve got to keep it cool, though. That’s the other thing. It’s not like Next Gen where it was closeup, two shot, closeup, closeup. You know I mean. That s#!t is… That doesn’t fly on television anymore!
Jonathan Frakes directing the second season Star Trek: Discovery episode “The Red Angel”
See Frakes and Picard cast at STLV
Jonathan Frakes will be appearing on a panel with members of the cast of Picard on Saturday, August 2nd, at 3:30PM Saturday, August 3rd in the Nimoy Theater at STLV.
The annual Star Trek Las Vegas convention kicks off Wednesday, July 31st and runs through Sunday, August 4th at the Rio Hotel and Casino. It features over 100 guests. TrekMovie will be there and provide our usual coverage.
Tickets are still available. More information is available at creationent.com.
I agree with Mr Frakes on the shooting techniques for TNG. That got boring after a while. Many shows did those camera setups for decades.
Television today is more cinematic. Maybe that is why I am one of the few that love Disco.
Cinematic comes from epic stories, grand production design and directorial vision, not flippant cameras movements!
Cinema is a collaborative effort. It doesn’t come from one thing. It is a sum. I can write the most epic story ever told. If I get my friends to act it, and film it with my cell phone, it will look like shit.
Probably one of the funniest analogies I’ve ever read on here, literally laughed out loud dude haha.
Though you’d be surprised how effectively a modern cell phone can shoot cinematic looking footage, with the right person behind the camera.
I was just fooling around. I know cell phones can do a bunch of great stuff these days. :-)
Just one example…this, from Zach Snyder:
https://youtu.be/eta6duszRLc
I have to agree, that is pretty damn funny.
“Cinema is a collaborative effort. It doesn’t come from one thing. It is a sum”
Isn’t that what I was saying? The idea that solely swirling the camera like a madman somehow makes a show more “cinematic” is a poor man’s idea of cinematography. Like thinking you could create a Michelin star dinner by adding sugar to your burger. And the narrative junk food Discovery gave us surely could not be spiced up by all those inane 360 degree rollercoasters.
Just playing for laughs here. ;-)
Salvador, watch Tangerine. Shot on a cellphone and it’s a Sundance winner.
I bet my friends weren’t acting it. :-P
We can change that!
Let’s do it! I’m starting a casting process through Whatsapp! :-)
Cinematic can mean many things. You have a very narrow definition.
What AG and Frakes are likely referring to is simply cinematography. The wider aspect ratio has a lot to do with that. The square nature of 4:3 limits what kind of visual storytelling, staging, and blocking can be done effectively, particularly on sets. that aren’t built for verticality. Conversations between two characters for instance, were almost always are done in closeup or close-to-medium shots, due to the aspect ratio.
As an interesting sidenote, you know what has all but disappeared from cinema? The full body shot. Rarely do you see a non-wide shot/establishing shot feature characters in full frame, from head to toe. It happens now and then, and usually it’s a character entrance or or in scenes with a lot of characters when you need a wide frame, when in the past, directors used it for intimate character interactions too. Particularly pre 1980s.
AB, I like the widescreen ratio. That’s nothing particular to Discovery though. But what stood out in season 2 were the rollercoaster camera movements that were completely divorced from any meaning in the scene and purely done for “coolness”. They were so intrusive that many people commented on them negatively. And thats nothing I would consider “cinematic”.
It is particular to DSC where it relates to Trek. Though ENT was the first to be widescreen, DSC is the first with a truly cinema-like aspect ratio, it was still a more modest 16:9. Specifically where it relates to his time on TNG, where the 4:3 ratio contrasts vastly with DSC season 2’s 2.39:1
As for those camera movements you didn’t like, I think you’re lack of understanding of the word “cinematic” is incorrectly telling you that those things are what he’s specifically referencing, when it is just one small piece of what makes a TV series like DSC more cinematic than it’s 1990’s counterparts (TNG, DS9, VOY).
Everything from the quality of the costumes, special effects, staging, lighting, set construction– and yes, camerawork– contribute to the “cinematic” feel he’s talking about. The sets are bigger and more elaborate, the lighting more dramatic, the costumes more detailed, the direction more carefully crafted. A lot of this is attributed to budget, not just in sets and costumes and FX, but even in time spent: they no longer have the tight schedule of cranking out a single episode in a week or so. They can take their time, reshoot scenes, do more rehearsals, better prepare for elaborate scenes, or just make them more elaborate because they are given the freedom to do so.
A lot got lost on TV simply because of the time constraints they normally operate under on broadcast, particularly in the past.
Your Soul may be Vulcan, but your language skills are pure Pakled.
Good writing comes from a good command of language, imagery and grammar, not from the confusion of adjectives and nouns (substituting ‘cinematic’ for ‘cinamatography’) or an inaccurate word usage:
flippant-adjective
showing or having a rude attitude of not being serious esp. by trying to be amusing when most people expect you to be serious:
We had lost thousands of dollars, so we did not appreciate his flippant remark about “better luck next time.”
Maybe English is not a Vulcan’s first language? Other than that, your post is pure ad hominem rudeness, so it’s ironic accusing ME of Pakled attitudes. I have nothing more to say.
What makes good writing is very different in languages other than English.
And I notice that VS themself has made the point that you shouldn’t assume so. (Not to mention that if VS has an aggressive predictive speller anything like mine, they may not have actually chosen the word you seem)
One of the biggest challenges, that I’ve had in learning to speak and write well in some other European languages, is that without lots of adjectives, adverbs and complex sentence structure, many Europeans view writing as not well educated.
I recall having to do writing exercises in one Eastern European language that involved stacking 3 adjectives to make my work sound more intelligent and professional.
This love of complexity is particularly true of French, which like many Canadians I have had to master at a fairly high level for work.
Conversely, speakers of French, Germanic and Slavic languages often think of English as a very simple language based on its grammar aesthetic of simplicity – they don’t see that imagery, metaphor and precise command of a vast vocabulary are are the mark of good English. I’ve often explained to non native English speakers that to an Anglophone adding lots of words is a signal that one doesn’t know the best word.
TG47, you make some good points about comparative linguistics, and I may add the reason why English speakers have a different feeling about complexity than other speakers may be because English has a significantly larger vocabulary than many other languages, including many obscure words one only comes across in highly specific contexts (e.g., literature). In that way, the non-native speaker never stops learning. And yes, rushed mobile typing doesn’t help the matter ;)
When people refer to tv as being cinematic, they’re talking about great stories (that aren’t one off) but they’re mainly speaking to camera angles and movement as well as vfx.
Sounds Like Jonathan likes it the way Disco does it, too.
It can be all spectacularly shot that you want, but if the scripts are as bad as Discovery’s that all is worth nothing.
All true. If the stories were compelling the swooping camera movements would be less of a thing.
One ill-advised attempt to get away from the boring steady shot techniques Mr. Frakes mentions was the “shaky-cam” (camera following cast around without any stabilizing), introduced on NYPD Blue and quickly imitated by many other shows before eventually falling out of favor. If anything, that was worse. The steady shots may have been ‘boring’, but they didn’t make viewers seasick. Now we have DSC with cameras doing somersaults into the scene. Ugh.
I thought Frakes direction was the most guilty of this. About 1/3 into the episode I remember cringing at some of the cutting, pacing, and camera moves and for the first time I can remember actually wanted to know who directed it. Not surprised. He’s not a great director.
I think I personally observed Frakes employing, and likely learning the shaking-cam too, when he was filming a Trek documentary during a CreationCon in Pasadena that I attended around the time of GENERATIONS’ release. It was the one where Stewart auctioned off the Loveboat Enterprise model used in a SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE skit I believe he had recently done.
Who cares if the story and acting is substandard like they are in Disco.
Apart from anything else, who the hell watches TNG now and complains about the shooting techniques ???
Yep, and I ask you the same about DSC– funny how you criticize it, while defending a show that by comparison had some pretty substandard acting and story (TNG).
TNG is a wonderful show, but in terms of high quality television against modern shows, it just does not hold up. DSC is not among the highest quality shows today, but it holds its own.
From what I’ve seen, DSC is like kids playing with a giant budget, pinching bits they’ve seen elsewhere and using them out of context to mostly ill-effect. In terms of quality, I’m just not seeing it at all.
DIS has definitely improved in second season Kmart, but yes I definitely understand why its still not that popular with a lot of fans. It has tons of money to play with obviously but it still has a long way to capture the spirit of past Trek and I liked Discovery a lot more in second season. But what does it say when I can still watch a TOS, TNG and DS9 episode over again and still can’t be bothered to watch the new shiny big budget show more than once an episode? I think season 2 I’ve seen every episode at least twice not counting the last 3 episodes, which I only seen once. It still doesn’t pull me in like the other shows do where I can watch them all over and over again. It doesn’t mean every episode lol, but I can generally turn on any season to any of them and find at least a dozen or so to watch decades later.
That’s why I’m hoping with the season 3 reboot DIS is getting that they will find the niche I feel its still missing. And yes season 3 is where a lot of the shows really do start to improve historically, so I’m lightning strikes again.
still hoping to see s2 at some point, once we have a TV that can receive cbsaa. Actually, our smaller set is one that would work, but didn’t see the point of watching the show that way.
I would. The way they staged fights on TNG was stunningly inept. s3 they hae a fight with O’brien and an alien warrior that leaves transporter room and goes out into corridor and they just put a camera at the other end of the hall, incredibly lame choice. Compare pretty much any fight there, with, say, WAY OF THE WARRIOR. Almost no comparison at all.
Trust me Ale, you’re not among the few when it comes for the love of Disco
So excited for this show!!!!!!!!
Maybe Dahj is their kid?
Could be, but I would imagine that if they had a daughter her name would be Lwaxana.
Ambassador Troi would insist on it.
Why?
Neither Deanna nor her (late) older sister had Betazoid names.
Lwaxana would never be so vain as to name her own daughters after herself, but she would naturally expect them to honor her by giving them her name.
Well, Deanna already had a son, whom she named Ian after her father. Naming both her children after her parents might be a bit much. They would probably choose Will’s mother’s name.
But no, I don’t think Dahj is Will & Deanna’s daughter.
Maybe, but then that would mean Picard was not aware they had a kid since he said he met “a woman” and not “Riker’s kid”.
Not necessarily. He could mean “A woman came to me. I think she’s Riker’s kid.” I doubt its Riker’s kid though. I don’t see why anyone would be making all this fuss over a random quarter-Betazoid.
Naa. Picard would know of her already. There’s no believable plot device that could make him not.
Um whatever happened to Barash? I always wondered if Riker just dropped him off at the nearest starbase and never looked back after inviting him to ‘come with me’ before beaming back to the Enterprise. I mean seriously, I’m curious.
Glad they’re not going for the JJ/Disco style of filming. Makes me even more excited for the show!
He just said that the JJ style won’t be used unless it’s an action scene. I expect a lot of action scenes for the younger cast members.
“I expect a lot of action scenes for the younger cast members.”
I don’t. They said it’s slower than TNG (not just Discovery)! That’s actually quite an accomplishment. Back in the day they didn’t feel the need to add a fist and/or phaser fight to every episode to make it more “cinematic”. Nowadays that is apparently special interest ;)
This isn’t the 1980’s. No one is going to watch boring stuff like that. Expect action.
Of course there will be some action. This is Star Trek. But, there are plenty of shows today that don’t have action, and I think Picard can be successful without being an action show.
Yes every Star Trek show has been an action oriented show including TNG. It just wasn’t action in every episode. And I may add neither does Discovery have action in every episode either.
And the trailer for Picard shows there will definitely be action. How can there not when you have the Borg and Romulans show up lol.
I think a few people will be disappointed when they don’t see Picard, the Romulans and Borg having tea and discussing the plot for 30 minutes each episode.
Except everyone on this website who watches TNG LOL.
Have you seen TOS? Most episodes did have fist fights. TNG did have more fight free episodes though,
Almost every episode of TOS ended with fist fights and death. People love to watch TOS with rose colored glasses.
Same here, Steve. Hopeful.
Clearly they still are going for the manic camera stuff with the action scenes. The part in the trailer that gave a glimpse of this was when Picard finds himself witness to some kind of fight involving transporters being used mid air. Now you wouldn’t have seen that on TNG!
Did they ever explain why people still get old and fat on Star Trek. By the 25th century aging should have been cured.
Aging is not something you cure! 😡
Yes it is.
Levi 90028 is correct. If aging is totally eliminated, the total organism would be locked into a static state. It wouldn’t be living as we understand living our lives to be. What one seeks to cure, are the ravages of old age on the body’s repair and maintenance systems.
“Did they ever explain why people still get…fat on Star Trek.” easy access to food replicators might be why…
AI should cut off your Cheetos and Twinkies at a certain point.
Not all “big” people are overeaters, that’s a common, often bigoted, misconception. And some are perfectly healthy, William Shatner for one, despite these negative preconceptions. Many arctic peoples have adapted to a higher ratio of body fat, for another.
Time to dust off the copy of Wall-E
Because in the future, they’ll realise that everyone looking like an underwear model just gets really boring after a while. As far as Star Trek is concerned, that’s a trend that started with ENT and it only got more conspicuous after that.
Is that why they liked wearing spandex?
Nope. The drives of evolution has been around for a lot longer than Star Trek and higher brain function can’t override that. lol
JAGT, but they actually look like they can do half the stuff a trained Starfleet officer ends up doing on away missions and red alert situations. Being fit isn’t just visually appealing, these crews have to be athletic.
Did they ever explain why people still get old and fat on Star Trek.”
Actually, they did. Aging is no ordinary sickness but a fundamental feature of all living beings. Stopping it would probably require wide-scale cell-level genetic manipulation (wasnt there a TNG episode about that)? And as we know all Trek rejects using genetic manipulation for improving humans beyond their natural state.
Now as for fatness. Probably the body positivity movement won out ;)
Come to think of it, they kind of did cure old age in that. Pulaski got really old, and then they put some of her old DNA in the transporter and beamed her up to make her young again. No idea why they never use it on regular old people.
That episode where Picard and crew became kids again really pissed me off. That episode really made it look easy to turn back the clock with a transporter.
The transporter cures everything. Kirk has his own subroutine for siphoning off whatever STD he encountered on away missions….
LOL!
They kind of have cured old age a few times, although the cures aren’t widely used. There was that TNG episode where an elderly evil admiral bought an old age cure from a super secretive race, but took two doses all at once and overdosed. That race generally didn’t share their knowledge though, so it wouldn’t be available to most of the Federation. There’s also the TNG episode where a transporter accident turned some of the crew into children. I would think that, as long as you don’t mind going through adolescence multiple times, you could recreate that accident multiple times and live for as long as you want. And, of course, there’s the Briar Patch in Nemesis. That’s not really helpful though, unless Starfleet relocates the Baku, or people want to go live in the Briar Patch.
Legate Damar,
I believe the Briar Patch was Insurrection.
You’re right. I don’t know why I said Nemesis.
There can be no cure. The soulless minions of orthodoxy won’t allow it!
Slow clap.
Aging will never be ‘cured’. Lifespans can ‘maybe’ be pushed much further out into say the 150s or 160s (providing people in 24th Century ditch the unhealthy diets/lifestyles we have a lot of in 21st).
Birth control will probably have to be a thing though, or perhaps Earth would need pretty strict immigration controls lol
I’m not sure if birth control would be a necessity with access to other planets and technology that can help control weather or terraform a planet, they may have full livable access to Antarctica, desert regions, larger skyscrapers, and floating cities on or under the oceans. With replicator technology you don’t have to worry too much about growing and transporting food, as long as there are enough plants to maintain the oxygen supply.
Never say never. One day life will become digital. I really feel that if we ever do meet aliens, they will be machines that evolved from organic life.
So basically machines will go on to destroy organic humans… or take away their identities.
Sounds like the Borg actually. Terrifying concept IMO
It comforts me. I rather be a machine.
gee and i thought you liked being a tool.
Even if aging is somehow cured, death won’t be. Last I looked at the actuarial tables 500 years is the max before a mundane accident or some other unforeseen catastrophic event takes an individual human out.
If you could backup yourself. Death would be just a slight inconvenience.
A34,
The problem with having copies of oneself is the copy being activated doesn’t make the death of the original any less real. And then there’s the hassles of if more than one gets activated the constant debates on which one is the most legitimate version?
As for body fat, maybe they still have the freedom to eat whatever they want. They may not have to worry about the necessities anymore and be able to focus on “bettering themselves”, but it isn’t a requirement.
As for age, maybe that is something modern medicine simply can’t solve completely. Khan Noonien Singh might have been one failed attempt to cure the aging problem. They may just need more time to get it right. It is quite likely they are able to extend the average age out another few decades or so, but not forever. We get to see Dr. Leonard McCoy at 137 years old on the Enterprise D so we can assume some improvements have happened compared to today.
“As for body fat, maybe they still have the freedom to eat whatever they want. They may not have to worry about the necessities anymore and be able to focus on “bettering themselves”, but it isn’t a requirement.”
Or, the food equivalent of synthehol.
If we’re going to talk weight, can we talk about WHY some Starfleet officers look like they haven’t seen a gym since their cadet years and why others look like they’re current members of our military? And this isn’t fat-shaming or anything crazy like that. It’s just an honest question I’ve always had. The crew of Enterprise looked the part. The crew of TOS even looked the part. The crew of TNG….I mean they felt more like scientists and a research team anyway. The crew of DS9 felt militaristic and for the most part looked the part. Voy felt like a crew of actors to me rather than a real tangible crew. Maybe because Discovery and Enterprise are the two most modern of the shows, the look of their crews represent what a real Starfleet crew would look like in terms of physical conditioning. Sorry for the long post, just always been a little issue for me.
All my dreams are coming true with this show! Just the other day I commented that Picard better not adopt the nonsensical, ADHD-infused camera style of Discovery, so Frakes’ words are music to my pointy ears :)
Now, the only thing missing for bliss in Picard is Ron Jones!
Well considering Ron Jones was only used the first few seasons of TNG….. I wouldn’t expect his music to be recycled now. Don’t get me wrong i liked his under scores, but eventually hearing the same music recycled over and over in several seasons get stale. I think once they opened up to different composers each week it helped alot.
Who was talking about recycling? Of course I mean NEW Ron Jones scores adapted to the needs of the new show. And if you heard Ron Jones’ score for the Starfleet Academy game you know he is actually more versatile than any of the other TNG composers, and certainly Russo!
As for having several composers, totally agree. The idea of only having only one composer for all episodes and all shows ia totally beyond me. Even TNG with its much more limited busger did not save up on this!
Ok, I get it.
Totally agree that if the various series are intended to have different looks and tones, it would make sense to have different composers.
In fact, I would think different vfx teams for different eras would be helpful.
I was one of the few who enjoyed Dennis McCarthy’s music just as much. Though Jone’s Romulan theme was pretty epic.
I think Rob Legato would help, too.
Stop… just… can fans stop asking for the return of 90s Trek vets? Lame. I want new and different, not old and same. Let those guys go work on MacFarlan’s IMITATIONVILLE.
The point of asking for Legato is that you’d get innovation, not the same thing. Look at how much better the opening battle on ds9 looked than everything on TNG, that’s all on Legato using a hard key with little fill on the miniatures. Then he goes on from there to APOLLO 13. Later he is doing virtual cinema, in smalls steps on WHAT LIES BENEATH, more recently on the Favreau Disney stuff, and doing amazingly good miniature vfx in HUGO in the years between.
And of course Legato is clearly the ONLY PERSON who can do that stuff!! Smdh…
don’t know what smdh means, elaborate pls. Also, blathering does not cover for your unwillingness to admit when you’re being pigheaded or wrong in dismissing genuine talent owing to what, ageism? Familiarity? I know what breeds contempt in me, and that ain’t it.
kmart
smdh – Shaking My Damn Head
And you can relieve the boredom with its cliched overuse by substituting other body parts that star with “h”.
VS, even the composers for the 90s series disliked the mushy tonal wall.
I had the privilege of hearing the composer of the DS9 title theme (Legato) speak at a CreationCon in the early 90s.
I can’t remember whether or not he was speaking about Berman or Pillar, but he said “Somebody must have inflicted some really bad Vivaldi on him in his younger days” .
Basically, anything melodic was banned.
So, in spite of some very interesting themes being composed for some of the aliens, there is a reason Ron Jones left.
I think it’s great that Discovery and Picard’s music is picking up melodies from past series, but am very glad that Kurtzman is not putting rigid constraints on composers.
That was Jones talking, I’m pretty sure.
No doubt in my mind whatsoever; this is going to be a world-class ‘whopper’ of a show! (and I mean that most sincerely…)
Will Sirtis remember that she needs to do Troi’s accent, which she seems to have forgotten to do in the last several onscreen appearances?
Since she hasn’t done it since mid TNG, the character might have just lost the accent. She has been living away from anyone with that accent for a long time.
Actually, what is that accent supposed to be? Lwaxana doesn’t have it,
It’s supposed to be something to cover up her own distinctly East End of London accent.
And no other actor playing someone from Betazoid ever attempted it.
Given that it was supposed to be a wash, it’s not surprising that it was difficult to sustain and got replaced by what many refer to as a ‘mid-Atlantic’ accent.
Why couldn’t they just have used her real accent? Her father could have been from the east end of London, and she could have picked it up from him. Plus, they never tried to cover up Patrick Stewart’s accent, despite him playing a French man.
Totally agree Legate Demar.
And I’ve posed the same question about Ash Tyler’s muddy, mumbling American accent.
It doesn’t sound like the folks I’ve met that grew up in Washington State, and makes him harder to understand.
But for whatever reason TPTB felt that his lovely British accent was not on.
For a show declaring its values of diversity, washing the accent of an English South Asian seems really inappropriate.
But there it is.
Sigh.
As post script, Stewart apparently tested a French accent in the early stages of production of the TNG pilot. It was reportedly very bad, or at least TPTB thought it was better to stick with Yorkshire.
Characters and their backstory are often written before the actor is chosen so, if background is specified, it is the job of the actor to conform to the character as best they can rather than expect the writers to rewrite everything after they find each actor.
Uhm -Jeff, when backstories are so thin, there is no need to make an actor conform.
Would it really have made a difference to Discovery if Tyler was from east of Birmingham rather than Washington State?
More to the point, unless they are intended to be placeholder, why do the creators give almost all the humans in Starfleet backstories from the continental US when TPTB intend to have international casting to support global distribution?
It all seems especially silly when the USA isn’t even supposed to be a political entity after the 3rd world war.
Every planet has a East End.
Fan-tas-tic!
Why would a society that pervasively uses universal translators hear any kind of accent at all? And with two hundred plus years between us, the language might still be recognizable to its target audiences as English but a couple hundred years of changes should make it sound like a totally unidentifiable accent to our ancient English ears.
On THE ORVILLE, we know they are enjoying a 20th century United States arts and entertainment Renaissance which could possibly explain it as trendy affectations, but on STAR TREK, Kirk and McCoy don’t even know what a Clark Gable motion picture is?
I prefer not to get into the nitty gritty of the universal translator and just accept it for what it is: a plot device that exists solely so we the audience can understand everyone.
I do the same with actor’s accents and ethnic origins and names.
Hasn’t played Riker since Nemesis? Someone had repressed memories of an Enterprise episode! 😂
That never happened.
Oh, How I wish that were so.
You and me – and probably all Star Trek fans!!! Space Channel up here in Toronto shows Enterprise on Friday’s and I always skip that last episode whenever it comes on. I hear even Rick Berman apologized to the cast and fans of the show for making that last episode.
I SO wish that were so, myself. Even to the point of them doing one less show that year and making Demons the final episode. THAT is how bad it was.
It’s a total fabrication.
That’s because we haven’t seen the 31st century Discovery episode where it’s revealed that was in fact a holodeck episode of Discovery where Burnham was visiting Riker who was visiting Archer for counsel.
That could actually be an awesome premise for a Lower Decks episode.
That would be pretty funny and I am sure Berman would even find the humour in that!!
Obviously (I think) he means he hasn’t played Riker in the same scene as Picard since Nemesis.
Being in the presence of Stewart on a film set is probably a very emotional and bittersweet thing. Neither actor probably thought it would have happened again, but it has, which is going to create the feeling of nervousness. They want to do their best work and that’s pretty big pressure I’d say.
Mailed it in. Literally.
he did an episode of Enterprise in 2005 lol. only 14 years ago. as if that makes a difference 😂
He did some Orvilles last year. That’s TNNG.
He didn’t star in any, did he?
He directed episodes. But he hasn’t acted in years.
What? They not read the USS Titan novels?
Do you really think Frakes reads Star Trek novels in his spare time?
Sadly, I don’t think they are alone in that.
It really seems to be a preference of the actor.
Alan Van Sprang said he planned to read the entire S31 sequence of Control novels after getting the role of Leland.
And you believed him?😊
He didn’t need to say that.
If you scan his social media, he seems to march to his own rhythm.
I’m not really sure what the point of that was. The two Controls are clearly not the same thing.
Yes, in the end, the Control plotline in Discovery had very little in common with the books.
My point is that some actors like to read any related source material, and others make a conscious choice not to because they know that scripts may be very far from the literature.
It’s a choice about how they work and not what they do in their spare time.
I hope they stop the massive lens flares on Discovery, they’re literally blinding and distracting, additionally they put such strong lights behind the characters that the faces almost disappear, maybe it’s just me but I find that stressful and super annoying. Having binged S1&2 recently I am now registered blind ;-)
I with you on that. There are probably one thousand styles they could have chosen and they picked one of the stupidest ones that had already riled up fans over in the JJ verse. The camera work and set lighting shouldn’t draw attention to itself, but that is what they seem to be doing on purpose.
I can’t rewatch certain modern sequences because they make NO sense. The camera is not a seat on a thrill ride; it’s a voyeuristic witness to the drama that’s unfolding. Disco’s cinematography and all else is a conscious effort to do NEW things rather than finding the best way to tell a good story.
I agree CmdrR, while older camera work was too static, current approaches make the camera intrusive and break the 4th wall.
Even in the Picard trailer, I noticed the light dots on the lens in a couple of the outdoor scenes.
I’m pretty sure that the film cameramen of early 50s and 60s television would have seen that as poor work and inability to manage exterior light.
I’m really finding it hard to understand why current film specialists have convinced themselves it’s better to have the audience frequently reminded that the camera is the intermediary between the production and them.
Viewers wouldn’t be complaining so incessantly if the intrusive camerawork wasn’t taking them out of the experience.
And given that VR is increasingly a reality, it seems bizarre that directors and cinematographers are clinging so hard to an approach that says “Look at me! I’m here! I’m here!”
tg,
part of the thing about including image artifacts is to mess up the too-clear image you get with modern lenses and large digital sensors. That’s why a lot of cinematographers use very old glass lenses that have to be rehoused just to work with the new cameras, those lenses have more of a warm or organic feel, to cut the sterile digital feel. I can get on board with the lens choices, but to me the flares and spots on lenses is just visual gibberish, the kind of thing you use selectively, not as a constant (ditto for handheld.)
I seriously don’t get the use of the intrusive camera, even on stuff like MODERN FAMILY, because I’m constantly reminded there is somebody there watching this action go on and not helping out (like somebody climbing up into an attic window, or in a potentially dangerous situation.)
The quality issues with images even impacted well-made shows in recent years. The last few years of MAD MEN are visually feeble compared to the earlier ones … towards the end, the show almost has an available-light (look ma, no movie lights!) look, which works heavily against the show’s stylings, even as it pushed into the less stylish 70s. Instead of making a statement, it becomes visual mush, which detracts and distracts from the mostly excellent storytelling.
Thanks for the insights kmart.
My own photography courses were mostly about still film cameras.
I can see how glass lens would soften images in an analogue way that would be less intrusive.
There’s stuff on the horizon with digital imaging that is going to be about collecting data points rather than any conventional photography, and I’m old-school enough to not look forward to that. I believe a big part of the art in movies is the blur and the 1/24th of a second, so the departures from that seem to insulate from dramatic/emotional impact, not enhance it (except for rollercoaster stuff.)
It wouldn’t surprise me if Riker’s still a captain. Its only been about twenty years since he became captain. The First Duty thing says that Picard left the Enterprise in 2381, which means that he was captain of the Enterprise for seventeen years. Added to his time on the Stargazer, Picard was probably captain for over twenty years. Riker spent all of TNG turning down promotions, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s turned down the admiralty several times as well. Picard won’t be in Starfleet on this show, but it would be cool if we see Riker in the new uniform, commanding the Enterprise.
Rikers became First Officer in 2364 didn’t he? So that means he held that rank/position for 15 years. So another 15 years as Captain would take us up to 2394. I guess it’s possible he could still be Captain in 2399 but unlikely. He’s already nearly as old as Picard I think.
I think Riker will be an Admiral when he meets with Picard on the show.
Probably Troi is a teacher in the academy or something like that.
I got the feeling from the comments here he’s retired. Note the comment, “it’s non-military.” That sounds like his way of saying he’s not in Starfleet anymore.
I kind of like the idea of him being a teacher, now that you mention it, and not even necessarily at Starfleet Academy. Maybe he’s become a trombone instructor at Juliard.
He could just mean that they’re out exploring, and not fighting.
Or that the setting in which Picard interacts with Riker and Troy is not on a Starfleet ship or base, regardless of whether or not they have retired.
Wasn’t he the Exec on his previous ship?
Riker I believe was first officer on the Hood. Before that he was a LT on the Potemkin (promoted to Lt. Commander after the mission to Nervala IV), and an ensign prior to that aboard the Pegasus.
Fan pandering at its worst. These are two characters who add very little to the story. Riker was never a close friend to Picard, more like a close work colleague. If you absolutely need to show a good close friend from the TNG days, i’d think Crusher, or even Worf, would have made a lot more sense. Heck, Geordi would have been more interesting, to see where he ended up in life (we already got closure on Will & Deanna when they left for the Titan as a married couple).
No, this is because for some bizarre reason fans want to see Riker and Troi, it’s part of the whole “shipping” phenomenon, I think.
TLDR: I enjoyed them on the series, but i’ll never understand the fandom’s obsession with these two.
The whole show is about fan pandering.
Only if you agree it’s fan pandering to bring back a beloved character, but I could reasonably argue they did that to make money. I doubt including Riker and Troi is going to convince people to watch when they otherwise wouldn’t.
It’s all done to make money, people. It’s all made to appeal, whether on an artistic, narrative, or nostalgic level. I’m guessing they are shooting for all three and more. What works for each of us us subjective. Pleasing a fan base by bringing back someone they’ve been asking about from the start? I doubt they’ll hijack the narrative. Why on earth not? Such snobbery about pandering bores me.
Absolutely agree, that’s why it annoys me when people say something is a “cash grab.” This is a business, everything is done to make money. That’s not my criticism. MY criticism is that it’s my belief that unless done just right, Riker and Troi appearing add little to their characters or to Picard, that someone else couldn’t offer more or better.
They’re only including him because they’re so desperate to make critics of DSC happy, and they have seen fans here and elsewhere basically jzz their pants when they see “Jonathan Frakes” in big letters in the credits of a Star Trek episode.
So you’ve read the scripts and know what his role is?
Did you miss them? They were giving out ashcan editions at SDCC to all the smart peo….. oh. Um…. Never mind.
Canon disagrees with you, Afterburn. Nemesis had its failings, but the Riker/Picard goodbye scene was not one of them:
https://youtu.be/x26RZetMdek
I do hope our Mod will deem it fitting to allow this. It might clear the air, and beat back some of ‘everything-bashing’.
@Chuck – That scene literally demonstrates exactly that Afterburn said–that Picard and Riker were merely good work friends–instead of proving whatever point you though you were making. I’ve had friendlier farewells with coworkers I’ve known for less than a year, for crying out loud!
Afterburn is posting a lot of long-winded whining and sniping, but if you’re going to counter him, at least pick a scene that doesn’t literally prove what he said about Riker.
Gotta be smart to counter a sniper, and nobody on this board is!
ab, know thyself ….
Riker and Troi mean comedy! Can you imagine how daft Riker in his 90s is going to be? It’ll be great. No wonder Picard retired. The Monster Raving Lunatics has taken over the federation!
Glad to hear the episodes are shot different than Discovery…not that it’s bad on that show, but I got tired of the weird angles. I looked forward to seeing the D7 battle cruiser on screen so we could finally get to some TOS looking ships, and you barely see it.
I hope that the shots in space are better. From the looks of the trailer it’s clear they already are, which makes me quite happy.
Looking forward to all the new Trek coming this season! The Silver Age of Trek is here!!
The Original Cast Movies were the Silver Age. TNG through Enterprise is the Bronze Age. The JJverse through CBS is the modern age.
I prefer to think of this as the new golden age, in the most truest sense of the term. In other words, a renaissance.
Except for DS9, I think of pretty much everything not TOS-related as being the dam age.
all of this sounds great… i like that we have two different styled shows… back in the day tng ds9 and voy all looked and felt the same… aesthetically… ds9 though broke out and became it’s own thing creatively and they are being rewarded today for it as it really stands out now. i like both disco the action and fast pace and cinematic storytelling and i’m gonna like the more personal picard… argh when are these shows gonna preem?
Sounds great!!!!
So many people kept expecting Riker and Troi to show up (eventually) on this show, it was always a matter of when and not if. I’m happy we get them back in the first season even if it sounds like it will be in just a few episodes if that. I really hope we see them on the Titan or Enterprise. I’m fine with either.
A lot of great Star Trek news in the last week!
I bet we see the new Enterprise sooner or later commanded by Captain WORF !
See, THAT would be awful pandering. The “current” enterprise should be commanded by an entirely new crew and Captain, and NONE of them should be related to anyone from TNG.
It would also be really cool because then you could spin it off as the first post-Nemesis series about a new ship and crew, and still have the Enterprise name, and the opportunity to intro a new set of young leads for a new audience.
The continuing voyages of the Starship Enterprise is long overdue.
Long over due? No. It’s just about the right time. It’s been nearly 20 years since we’ve seen a “new” Enterprise and crew– the same time between TOS and TNG.
I don’t think we need two Enterprise-focussed series running at once, and my preference at this point would be to see Pike’s Enterprise fulfil its potential.
Going forward, were Picard not charting out some possibility radically timeline changing ground, I would be looking to see the Enterprise-G in the late 25th century.
I never bought the line that the technology would be too advanced after Voyager’s return so we can’t go forward rationale.
That said, even if TPTB decided to go in another direction with Picard, the Relaunch novels have more than proven that the late 24th century and the 90s series characters provide a rich tapestry for building new stories.
Don’t fret, they will not be running at the same time. I foresee a Pike 1701 series airing in late 2020, with a new Enterprise-J series no sooner then 2022, and while they might be in production at the same time it would allow them to have year long breaks between seasons if they alternated airing seasons every other year.
As long as there is no Letter following 1701 I would be fine. I’d also like to see a non-serialized Trek show. Even though it worked in stretches on DS9 and season 3 of Enterprise, I still think Trek works best in an episodic format. Perhaps a compromise like Enterprise season 4 was. A few 3 parters, a few two parters and a few one offs. But the 10-13 episode season doesn’t support any of that so it feels like the days of episodic Trek are extinct.
I don’t think it really matters. The same crew from TOS was on that ship for decades and even had Spock be it’s Captain before Kirk came back. And multiple post Nemesis stories usually have someone from the original crew like Data and yes Riker in charge of the ship. And both Riker and fans want him to finally command the Enterprise in canon. Not the end of the world if it doesn’t happen though.
And these are Discovery writers, pandering is clearly what they live for lol
I’d rather see a Riker prequel about his days as a young Lieutenant aboard the Potemkin then ever seeing him captain an Enterprise. Let’s kill that idea right now.
I just don’t see it as a big deal either way. Even if he did show up with the Enterprise, it doesn’t mean he would have to lead it if they had a new show. He could simply get promoted and give it to a new captain and crew. I think you’re over thinking it, we’re not talking anything major, especially since this show isn’t about him, but Picard. And I highly doubt anyone is thinking of an Enterprise F show or anything, Picard will be the focus for at least a few seasons for this period.
Keep him away from the Enterprise. I think that’s just such a boring idea, he is easily the most bland character on TNG. You seem to be overthinking it, trying to find ways to get him on an Enterprise, because for some reason Frakes makes your pants wet.
Dude all I said was I would like to see him on Enterprise lol, thats it. And of course as you USUALLY do, you seem to not remember the rest of my post as I ALSO said I would be fine to see him on the Enterprise or Titan, which would be a real thrill too since we haven’t seen that ship in canon before. And then I went and said if he’s on NEITHER I would be completely fine with that, especially if like Picard he’s no longer in Starfleet. Its not a big deal, I’m just speaking as a fanboy of course, but since I have accepted nearly everything I’ve seen of this show thus far (the only complaint I have had up until now is that I hate they named the dog Number One, but that’s literally been it and I’ve gotten over it ;)). So it should also tell you I’m just happy to have the era and characters back and wiling to see what they do with them. I think you once accused me of wanting TNG 2.0 when that’s never been the case and oddly I LOVE what they are doing with Picard here and everything so far. So having Riker on the Enterprise or ANY ship is not the priority, just seeing the character again is just like having Picard in whatever form they give us. You’re the only one who got defensive over the idea for some reason. I don’t have a problem you don’t like the idea, its no big deal either way. But yeah you can’t be completely shocked if thats what happens considering we are even getting Riker and Troi back among all the other things.
Its clear now they are going the fan service route when the entire time they acted like we will see Picard but everything else would be more like a distant memory. That’s clearly not the case so I suspect a lot of surprises based on that trailer alone and yes the Enterprise could be another. If its not though, its not.
TLDR.
Yeah, I saw “that’s all you said” and it’s really bizarre all the pants wetting people get over Frakes. It’s everywhere and it’s mind-boggling. From on-screen to behind the camera.
Because believe it or not the Trek community is huge and Riker/Frakes is a big part of that. Again this is the things I always have to laugh at, YOU don’t have to love the character, fine, but you don’t speak for the entire fanbase. I don’t remotely understand why people like Chekhov and Sulu so much considering after 50 years we know maybe 5 things about them, but to others they are just important to the franchise as Picard, Kirk and Data are and that’s all that matters. Everyone will love who they love, just let it go.
And since you can’t read anything longer than 2 paragraphs, its simple, fans can like and want different things. It’s really that simple.
Yes, I know Frakes is a big part of that for some mind boggling reason, and that’s what i get frustrated with. His direction is boring, his acting is mediocre, his character charming but ultimately not all that interesting.
If fans were, say, obsessed over Worf, I would understand. The interest in seeing a Worf series I get. But oddly, nobody seems that upset that Worf is not in Picard, but are soaking in their knickers that Riker and Troi are showing up.
Truly mind boggling.
And yes, Sulu and Chekov are just as important. As is Frakes. It’s the overwhelmingly out-of-proportion love Frakes gets that makes me scratch my head. Haven’t I repeated myself enough times about that here? Or have YOU been the one not reading?
Hey, at least i’m honest about not reading what you have to say (mostly because after the first two sentences it’s immaterial).
Fans are obsessed with Worf too lol. Everyone wants him on this show as well. As for your views on Frakes/Riker just have to agree to disagree. Not everyone will have the same views on every character, that’s fine but there is a reason why Riker is the character who has showed up in the most Trek shows to date. I still wouldn’t be shocked if they found a way to throw him on Discovery lol.
And how would you even know what I said later is ‘immaterial’ if you haven’t read it lol. Dude, stop playing silly games. And my point stands regardless. As usual you seem to have misread or ignored what I was saying.
Lol I wouldn’t have a problem with that either. But we so far, Dorn won’t be on this season. But yeah who really knows.
I fully expected someone from TNG to show up. But we are up to three now. That feels a little like overkill to me. And it makes me wonder now who else is going to show up before season 1 is through shooting. And add Seven to that mix. Of course we haven’t seen the final product yet but too much sugar can ruin the recipe. It feels like holographic Data and Seven ought to have been the limit for this outing. But I guess we shall see how well the recipe works next year.
I told you before I suspected that Picard would be a revolving door of TNG era characters like DIS was turning into a revolving door of TOS characters. In fact we both thought Kirk was going to show up on season 3 of Discovery but yes proven completely wrong lol.
Its not a surprise to me AT ALL they are showing up this much although it IS a surprise they are doing it this fast. I actually started to believe them (including the TNG cast) when they kept saying no one got a call to be on the show and this was strictly a Patrick Stewart vehicle. They were very convincing (they are actors though ;)). I DID think maybe we would get 1-2 cameos in first season that would be revealed on the show but to have five returning characters (when you include Hugh) is pretty crazy lol. And yes, there could be even more showing up this season.
And with Robert Picardo already talking openly about being offered a role in season 2, those floodgates will only get wider I suspect.
I don’t disagree with any of that. And I am 100% convinced that had Discovery stayed in their old time frame we for sure would have seen Lt. Kirk find his way to Discovery for some reason. And probably hit on Burnham while they were at it!
Like you the appearances are no surprise. Only in that they are coming so soon. But I still think they ought to have kept them more limited. That would make the show a bit more credible. Instead it is in danger of becoming a revolving door for past Trek characters.
I will say this… Seven was a bit of a surprise to me.
Lt. Kirk will work for Section 31.
Yes. INDEED!!!
I think it was tactful of him not to mention their appearance in the final episode of Star Trek: Enterprise.
Honestly, I think he forgot the order of these things or forgot about it entirely, just as Stewart recollected a scene from Nemesis and credited it to All Good Things.
Remember, we are fans, but these are actors who haven’t spent the last 20 years watching and rewatched the shows and movies like we do. At some point i’m sure it all just runs together for the, and for something like TATV, that was forgettable in its own time, it could have easily just fallen off his memory.
I agree with this, we have to remember they have worked on over 170 TNG episodes and four movies in a 15 year span, not to mention all the roles they did in the various other Trek shows like Voyager, DS9 and Enterprise which Frakes has literally been in all of those as well. So its not a shock you’re not going to remember everything correctly when you done so much of it and it all starts to feel interchangeable.
I mean Gwyneth Paltrow LITERALLY couldn’t even remember she was in a Spider-Man movie and that was just two years ago lol. And that’s because she’s been on so many MCU sets over the years she starts to mix them up even if MCU fans can probably tell you how many movies each character has been in and the run time for each as well.
I agree. While I die not mind the storyline in Disco, and watched all the first series, I was unable to watch the second series because the CONSTANT camera moves made me feel I’ll and was so distracting I gave it up. Having waited for a follow-up to Next Gen for 20 years, I hope they don’t muck it up I the wa,e way…