The Shuttle Pod Crew Talks Trailers With Guest Larry Nemecek: ‘Picard’ And ‘Discovery’

Shuttle Pod 72 – Talking Trek Trailers with Larry Nemecek: Picard Season 1 and Discovery Season 3


Or grab the direct link to the podcast here

Subscribe to Shuttle Pod: The TrekMovie.com Podcast on iTunesGoogle Play Music, and Pocket Casts!
Like what you hear? Please leave us a review on iTunes.

Kayla and Brian welcome on special guest and friend of the show, Larry “Dr. Trek” Nemecek to do a bit of a New York Comic Con debrief. Listen along as we discuss the new trailers for Star Trek: Discovery and the much anticipated Star Trek: Picard.

All this talk of new Star Trek stories had us looking back at old ones that never got off the page of a script. In particular, we looked at how Discovery compares to pitches such as Star Trek: Federation and the would-have-been animated series Star Trek: Final Frontier.

Need more Larry in your life?

Who doesn’t? Catch up with Dr. Trek through Portal 47, TrekLand, the Trek Files podcast (also on iTunes), and more all through LarryNemecek.com.

41
Leave a Reply

6 Comment threads
35 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
16 Comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify me of
Palizia

Larry made me more anxious to read scripts for Federation than to watch the new season of Discovery. (I will anyway of course.)

Tiger2

I always loved the Federation idea since I first read about it. I know for some it sounded too cynical and dark for Star Trek, but I always remind people this is a show that involved a nuclear war on Earth, it wasn’t always rainbows and sunshine. ;)

And I think its the idea of rebuilding the utopia that keeps in line with Star Trek and what Discovery will be doing and why I’m excited for it. Even though I wish they just did this in season one, I guess everyone would’ve just said it was ripping off the Federation idea. Although I guess they can still say that lol.

Vulcan Soul

Given that the Discovery creators and writers have steadfastly refused to do “standard formula Trek” (starting with literally killing it in the pilot) but always created some kind of emergency condition – with the Klingon War, with Lorca, with the Mirror Universe, with the Control crisis – I’d say making this emergency permanent by turning “Andromeda” into the formal setting of the show means they can finally follow their natural inclination without coming up with ever more ridiculous twists and turns that prevented the crew from “just exploring”. This is true for the tone AND the technology. However, it must be said that most likely this “freedom” in season 3 onwards will move the series even further away from all other Trek outings of the past 50 years – and not just chronologically.

David Moss

Picard… “Remember when we were explorers?”

Urban Turf

I get that you’ve moved on and don’t wish to watch DSC any longer, but might I ask why you feel the need to continually harp on every flaw you see in it, and hyperbolically dump on the series in every article?

Vulcan Soul

Headline of this article: “The Shuttle Pod Crew Talks Trailers With Guest Larry Nemecek: ‘Picard’ And ‘DISCOVERY’” (emphasis mine).

It’s YOU who can’t move on from questioning my motives. Discuss the post, not the poster.

I’m still watching, and of course I still hope the flaws are corrected. Some of the many of season 1 have been corrected (for good or for worse), so it’s not like they are unable to change.

Sam

For good or worse seems an accurate description. Most of the “fixes” of S2 felt really superficial and did not seem to improve the series (let alone the story) in any meaningful way. But no matter. I could still get aboard with this seemingly obligatory narrative that S2 was somehow a vast improvement over S1 (I “get” it, we all love Anson Mount as Pike) if only the story for S2 was actually about something.

At this point I just want CBS Trek to deliver one solidly “good” season of television. Not two, and not three, but just one. Don’t care if it’s a season of STD or of STP (though I guess I’d rather STP start out strong while that’s still a possibility). And I don’t even want a great season at that, but just a good one.

Urban Turf

You’re very correct, I won’t stop questioning your motives, because you are a wet blanket who previously claimed to have moved on from Discovery, were no longer watching, and heavily implied you’d stop commenting on it.

That was in a comment in response to someone else, by the way, who took umbrage with your negativity. I’d highly recommend you go out and have some fun this Sunday, it sounds like you have a lot on your mind.

Vulcan Soul

“You’re very correct, I won’t stop questioning your motives, because you are a wet blanket who previously claimed to have moved on from Discovery, were no longer watching, and heavily implied you’d stop commenting on it.”

Sorry mate, you confused me with another poster! I never claimed any of this.

That said, I don’t owe you any sort of explanation or “promise”, and seeing you are simply unable to discuss posts instead of posters, the person causing trouble here is YOU. May I suggest you create your own forum where you can aggressively police critics and dissenters, as you seem to fancy, as you won’t have much luck with this approach on here? I’ve been on here a lotttt longer than you are!

tony

war footing tends to give ‘trek’ a boost as it did with the dominion on ‘ds9’, the borg brining 7 of 9 on Voy and the xindi on Ent.
Disc has always been made in the shadow of BSG and GoT.

Methuselah

Nah, not so much. LOL

Palizia

(Replying to myself because this is for everybody reading) this was TrekMovie’s very thorough article on Star Trek: Federation from years ago. Excellent article!

https://trekmovie.com/2011/04/16/exclusive-details-excerpts-from-star-trek-federation-series-proposal/

Vulcan Soul

Thanks Palizia! I re-read the old concept and mourn for the road not taken. Instead of this bold concept going forward, we wasted 10 years in prequels both on Abramstrek and Discovery. Now, one can only hope they are as bold and imaginative in re-drawing the big canvas for 800 years of history as this concept would have, without turning Trek into whole-sale fantasy! I loved reading how the Klingons and Cardassians would change during almost one millennium and that is exactly the kind of changes we should expect, which only such a big time jump could credibly allow. Let’s hope, no, let’s pray the current TPTB picked as lofty scifi literary sources for their year 3000 as the Federation series people did, that is, Asimov’s Foundation series, not Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter…

Legate Damar

I think LotR and Potter are at least as good sources to pull from as Foundation. Foundation is incredible sci-fi, even if the characters can be a bit dull at times, and Trek would do well to follow its example. However, Trek has never been hard sci-fi, and there is nothing wrong with them putting some fantasy tropes into their work. They will never go as far in that as Star Wars did, but Trek has always had some similarities to fantasy worlds like Middle Earth.

Vulcan Soul

“there is nothing wrong with them putting some fantasy tropes into their work.”

Matter of opinion, and obviously I disagree – for my taste they already went too far down the fantasy route in Discovery with “spore drives” and “time crystals”. It’s true Trek’s technology was often flimsy, especially back in TOS, but dont we need more, not less, belief in sound science at this time? Justified or not, Trek has been an inspiration for generations of scientists and engineers, and going down that same random, SFX heavy fantasy route as the Marvel universe or Harry Potteresque fairy tale magic would be a sad ending of this legacy.

David Moss

Hey Guys…

I just listened to your latest podcast and as always great job. I very much appreciated all of your insights into the trailers and what is coming. That said, I think there are two things that you really missed in your discussion.

First is my concern that when DSC goes to the 32nd century the technology will have so surpassed them. Think about where our technology was 1,000 years ago and multiply that exponentially. Even if the Federation has fallen or shrunk, unless everything fell into a dark age – which it seems has not happened – the tech would be so far beyond anything DSC has to be unrecognizable. Imagine a sailing ship from 1019 coming forward in time and leading a renaissance.

Additionally, you guys spoke of getting Georgio back to the 23rd century for Section 31. Why do we assume that is needed? Maybe she restarts Section 31 in the 32nd century.

Just thought I’d throw that in. Would love your feedback.

Legate Damar

I certainly hope that they send her back in time. A Section 31 show in the 23rd century would be much more interesting than one in the 32nd. They would be able to have Tyler as part of the main cast, and they would be able to explore how 31 went from a relatively well organization in Discovery to a top secret thing that nobody has ever heard of in DS9.

Sam

I had just assumed by now the proposed S31 series had been backburnered.

DIGINON

As far as I know the plan is still for the Section 31 show to start filming once Discovery season 3 is done. At least, that’s what the producers have been saying for quite some time.

Sam

But how recently have they said it? Half a year ago or more? I mean I’d be fine if it never materialized. I even suspect this will be STD’s last season, regardless how it does, once STP picks up the slack as CBS Trek’s new flagship show.

DIGINON

I think they repeated it during one of the recent conventions.
As for Star Trek Picard replacing Discovery, you seem to be forgetting CBS’s goal to have some new Trek coming out all year round. They don’t want only one Trek show to be the flagship on CBS ALl Access, they want a bunch of shows. 10 episodes of Picard don’t fill a year so it would seem like a bad idea for CBS to drop any existing show before they have something to replace it with.

Palizia

I’m curious to know if they plan to have concurrent series on the air. Even new Trek all year round doesn’t seem like enough (for me anyway) if it’s only one series at a time.

I also feel that all the series are getting short shrift by making so few episodes of each. Discovery going into its third season is barely beyond the number of shows in TNG’s first season.

Tiger2

“But how recently have they said it? Half a year ago or more?”

Uh, Kurtzman said it again just last week at NYCC. In fact it’s been said several times in the last six months this site has reported on that Section 31 is starting after Discovery is done shooting. So far no one has said anything differently about it.

TG47

Hi David Moss, it seems as though this technology issue is really a barrier for you.

I hope you can have a bit of open mindedness about this and not bring up your sailing ship metaphor on every thread.

We’ve gone over this quite a bit on a recent thread. Tiger2, myself and others talked about a long track record of asymmetric technological development in reality and in Trek, and how – to avoid catastrophic extinction – humanoids in Trek have had to step back from untrammelled use of scientific discoveries in nuclear, biological or other warfare.

I found the ShuttlePod discussion about how the Federation seems still ‘shiny’ but small and constrained very interesting.

It seems likely given Burnham’s search for a ‘domino’ that set off a series of events, that this season’s mystery will be a search for the explanation about how the Federation’s progress was set back and how Discovery can contribute to restoring the Federation’s vision.

Instead of a single catastrophe, it sounds as though there was a more subtle ‘chaos theory’ butterfly wing explanation.

It will be really boring and annoying if you and others dig in and say ‘it just can’t be’ for the entire season when the whole point of the season may be to find out just ‘how can this be?’

kmart

tg47, If that’s the whole point of the season, then they had really better bring some marvelous revelation, because failing to pay stuff off in an interesting way seems to be a theme with this show thus far. This is the problem with most puzzle box storytelling (plus it doesn’t lend itself to rewatching) outside of TWIN PEAKS, which is so joyous in its dementia and quirkiness that it transcends. Thus far, 21st century trek doesn’t transcend, it just detours/derails (based on s1 and first ep of s2, all I’ve seen thus far, plus what I’ve read of the rest of s2.)

TG47

Totally agree kmart.

It’s a real risk for any serialized television.

Slowly revealing the cards falls flat if the solution doesn’t make compelling sense.

It’s why I’ve never rewatched the Battlestar Gallactica reboot, even though I liked it well enough to buy the DVDs for the early seasons.

I’m hoping that Discovery will have more than one puzzle, enough interesting episodes along the way to the solution, and enough coherence in the plotting to make S3 hang together in a way that the previous seasons haven’t.

But I’m getting really bored with the ‘it just can’t work because’ interjections before the season even kicks off.

Discovery is not intended to be the Trek for every Trek fan. Let’s see where it goes before asserting it can’t work or demanding the solutions to every conundrum.

kmart

TG,
I find that watching small batches of GALACTICA work best rather than rewatching the series. The PEGASUS stuff by itself, or the first part of season 3, like 33, are good standalones for me. I did rewatch the whole series about 3 years ago, and didn’t find the ending as obnoxious as I had originally, but it still didn’t really hang together for me, and it’s a shame when you really like parts but feel that the overall effect is spoiled (sort of like how the VFX just about ruin AIR FORCE ONE for me, even though all the live-action parts of the movie engage me throughout, despite serious improbabilities.)

We have a spare TV that we are going to hard-wire in the bedroom, and perhaps that one will let us order All Access (it is not available through our main TV and cable provider on the wireless hookup. I don’t really understand the whole ‘this is not available in your area’ when I’m in the US, but I assume it is just another case of how things get fractured when it is financially advantageous to some groups to make them that way.) My wife really wants to see season 2, so I’m willing to be in the next room listening in while she watches if we can order it on the other TV (let’s me avoid what I find to be dubious ship VFX that way, something I’m seriously allergic to.)

David Moss

TG…

Hate to say this, but yes I and a lot of people that I know do have some difficulty here. I am not trying to bash DSC, but in my Star Trek, I do want some level of realism. Yes, I know transporters and warp drive are not real but they are scientific extrapolations. Time jumping itself is not real but can be extrapolated as well. Having no significant level of technological advances in over 900 years I just don’t see it as plausible. Even as bad as Andromedia was, there were several episodes that showed the tech had advanced and they were only talking 300 years (very bad show.. ugh!).

Further, just look at the advances in tech between TOS and TNG. The holodeck, replicators, recalibration of the warp drive to significantly faster speeds, emblem communicators, quantum torpedoes, artificial life (Data), Geordi’s visor, and more. And that was only 80 years!

Okay, so enough of my rant. I will watch and give it a chance for sure but I do think this is just another thing they haven’t thought out. Maybe I am wrong and they’ll pull a Battlestar (unnetwork all our computers). We’ll have to wait and see. That said, after watching the latest Short Trek (Tribbles) I become a bit more disillusioned.

Disinvited

David Moss,

Re: Time jumping itself is not real…

I beg your full free and absolute pardon, Einstein worked out velocity and gravitational time dilation over a century ago and it is a verified scientific FACT which makes jumping forward in time REAL.

Disinvited

David Moss,

You use words, but I have to doubt your comprehension of them when you try to suggest that during The Renaissance, which took place from the 14th to 16th centuries, people then wouldn’t have used a still seaworthy ancient Greek ship full of preserved Ancient Greek texts to do just that?

David Moss

I did not say The Renaissance. I said A renaissance.

TG47

David Moss, I’m glad you’ll give it a chance.

We’ve all been given reason to be concerned about Discovery given ‘the worst birthing of any Trek series’ as the ShuttlePod crew commented, but let’s not seek to be pessimistic.

I’m particularly concerned that not to let folks get too tripped up by something that’s always been an issue in Trek.

The 23rd and 23th century technology really isn’t far enough advanced if one plots a straight linear line from the mid 20th century, let alone the kind of nonlinear functions of technological development that’s been accelerating since the 17th century.

Looking at Trek in the 1960s, nuclear annihilation and eugenics were global social concerns. Trek history had humanity surviving conflicts about both and then limiting these technologies. As well, overcoming the risks of technology was one of the reasons that achieving warp drive was the test for the Prime Directive.

So, Trek has always envisioned limits in technological development, while at the same time exploring and pushing limits.

If we take the temporal cold war of Enterprise as a firm part of Prime timeline canon, it wouldn’t be all that surprising for a retrenched Federation to be holding on to the technology and values it has been able to retain.

We shouldn’t assume the end of the temporal cold war was a good outcome for the Federation.

Disinvited

David Moss,

Re: I said A renaissance.

I know. But you have to understand the word’s origin to use it properly, and my example is still that of A renaissance where they would have done the exact opposite of what you suggest with the discovery of a perfectly preserved ancient Greek ship and its contents.

David Moss

Amazing. Why don’t you look up the word in Websters and see the various definitions, one of which is rebirth. Can we stick to the subject?

TG47

Thanks for this ShuttlePod crew!

It was good to step back after the 2 Short Treks and reflect on all the NYCC Trek news.

I appreciated the think back to the Star Trek: Federation concept, but principally the discussion about how Discovery seems to be trying to get the fine balance between the shiny utopia Federation and a failed dystopian future.

Kev

When you all made the comment Burnham’s her hair grew a LOT in the year she was separated from Discovery all I could think was this podcast needs some Black people on it because that was some of the whitest nonsense I’ve heard in awhile.

Vulcan Soul

“some of the whitest nonsense”

Your attempt at a racist slur unfortunately fell flat because nonsense does not have a skin color :)

Palizia

Sonequa Martin-Green has used wigs and extensions throughout the series, so the hair length and style is easy to point at and ridicule if somebody wants to. I think Kev was saying that making it an issue at all is racist (and the fact is they don’t do this to Mary Wiseman).

RikersMailbox

The misconception, and the story that the powers that be keep emphasizing, is that the problem with Discovery is that the prequel concept and established canon inhibited creativity and freedom. NO. That has never been the problem with Discovery. The problem has always been poor writing and a lack of basic storytelling. Personally, I don’t see how this writing staff will suddenly produce quality stuff now that they’re 900 years into the future.

TG47

I seems RikersMailbox that TPTB are no longer indulging that message about canon constraints, and even last season were insistent on respecting canon for key Pike era elements.

The Discovery writing team did very well with Pike and Spock in my view.

Production designer Tamara Deverell also did brilliantly with the Enterprise bridge while maintaining some aesthetic continuity with Discovery’s original designer’s work.

So, they could work creatively within canon.

But it’s clear from the comments ‘that we debate canon every day’ that Discovery’s unhappy writers room had too many senior Discovery writers that felt constrained by canon.

The ShuttlePod crew’s observation that Kirsten Beyer didn’t have the power in the room due to the hierarchy of screen writers, despite a long list of Trek novel credits (as well as a theatre degree and acting credits) is an important one.

Going forward, the balance and leadership of the group in the writers room has changed. Showrunners Paradise and Kurtzman are talking about how canon has not been left behind. The message you are talking about may not be so pertinent.

More than that, as Larry pointed out, we have been shown that they are walking the talk. Andorians, Lurians and Cardassians will be working with humans in future. Trill will be part of the story arc. We’ll just need to wait to see if the writers have settled enough to have a more current and better paced story arc.

Last, Larry noted how Chabon has been very clear that there is enormous creative space within canon and has demonstrated that with his two Short Treks, and signs are good on this point for Picard.

Mike McMahon is enthusiastically embracing canon in developing Lower Decks, and has brought Trek author David Mack on board as a consultant. (Mack’s also consulting on the teen animated show.)

All to say that the franchise seems to be attracting and keeping writers who really want to write Trek, and love Trek — and their enthusiasm for canon is pushing back on the ‘we need to be free’ whinging that seems to have been a significant factor in Discovery’s painful birthing.

Athus

When you make a Podcast and half of the Podcast is they complaning about the fans, is funny. Fans are what keeps Star Trek alive, stop complaing about them and start been a bit more neutral a no so pro Disco.