A Plethora Of Photos From “Nepenthe,” The 7th Episode Of ‘Star Trek: Picard’

CBS has released eighteen new photos from this week’s episode, in which Picard and Soji find refuge on Nepenthe with some very familiar faces.

Of special interest to fans is this photo, which identifies the young person as Kestra. In TNG: “Dark Page” we learned that Kestra Troi was the older sister of Deanna, who fell in a stream and drowned when she was still a child. It seems likely that this Kestra is the child of Will Riker and Deanna Troi and is named after her aunt. (More photos below.)

“Nepenthe” — Episode #107 — Pictured (l-r): Sir Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard; Marina Sirtis as Deanna Troi; LuLu Wilson as Kestra; of the the CBS All Access series STAR TREK: PICARD. Photo Cr: Trae Patton/CBS ©2019 CBS Interactive, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Episode teaser

Here’s the teaser for this week’s episode in case you haven’t seen it yet.

More Photos

New episodes of Star Trek: Picard are released on CBS All Access in the USA Thursdays at 12:01 AM PT/3:01 AM ET. In Canada it airs Thursdays on CTV Sci-Fi Channel at 6PM PT /9PM ET and streams on Crave. For the rest of the world it streams Fridays on Amazon Prime Video. Episodes are released weekly.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Picard news at TrekMovie.

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No gripes, just Curious…
Why do major characters in the star trek future prefer to live remotely on a farm (the Rikers in this episode), vineyard (Picard)-that is his family’s so understood, or a cabin in the woods (generations). Or somewhere remote like Rafi’s rv in the desert.

Or it’s a badlands or outpost kind of place.

Seems like the last normal city dwelling was Kirk’s place in WOK.

There was Doji’s place I guess.

Location production cost maybe?

I’ve lived and worked in the city all my life. The fast-paced hustle and bustle does get to one especially in their later years. I am planning to spend my twilight years somewhere remote, alot like the Rikers.

That’s an astute observation, though not inconsistent to previous shows (as you point out). Since TNG I wondered why people living in a Utopian, post-scarcity society would choose to live in rather simple houses from centuries ago that look like mid-20th century dwellings without any futuristic technology. There may be the off-screen explanation of production cost and time of redesigning every single piece of furniture and household item, but in-universe I imagined a kind of Neo-Luddism that many 24th century (soon 25th century) people adhere to for the purpose of grounding themselves from the head-spinning complexities of near omnipotent and ubiquitous technology.

Ben Sisko’s father lived in central New Orleans, and Harry Kim in San Francisco in that episode about an alternate timeline. We also saw apartments in that episode about Species 8472. As to Riker, he’s from Alaska, which is a relatively rural state.

Makes total sense to me that after a career of high-stress postings like the Starfleet flagship and presumably other ships in deep space, dangerous missions, battles, wars, etc. one would want to get off the grid into the quiet to enjoy retirement on some peaceful planet. Hell, I’ve worked in cities for 30 years, can’t stand it. Three years from now, I’m done with them. Also, this show has been pretty dark so far; this could provide some nice contrast, maybe some of that TNG ‘utopia’ many feel is lacking.

Is Riker doing the dishes? From Starfleet captain to domesticated husband :)

Seriously, I was about to post something about the 20th century look of the house but it is SO archaic, right down to current-day faucets, door handles, candles and even what appears to be a vegetable garden that I would expect there to be some in-episode explanation.

I’m sure Willy T. has splurged for one of Quarks Holosuite kits and has it set up in the tool shed out back. He can then play trombone in his favorite “Gin joint” and hook up with Min;)

This comment is simply amazing. And I mean that; LOL!

Then here is the next logical question… Is it cheating if you hook up with a holographic character?

Star Trek Into Darkness is mostly set in London and San Francisco and it shows an amazing-looking future, so the trend has been bucked. It seems to me that the Picard show’s limited budget doesn’t allow the depiction of a futuristic city like it could be shown in the movies.

Right? And they keep re-using Discovery’s shuttles, as if designing a new shuttle to be used in all those scenes that need to be rendered ANYWAY would be a huge cost… It boggles the mind that they would cheap-sell a show that surely must dwarf Discovery’s viewership and subscription numbers. “Sir” Patrick Stewart seems to be eating up all their budget, and/or they think more than any fancy starships he’s reason enough to sell the show to viewers (and again, the numbers may indicate they are right!)

What *are* the numbers, homeboy?

An “amazing looking future” with 20th century bedside alarm clocks???

I’d think great explorers are by definition lonely people, and crave being by themselves. If you’re willing to spend most of your life “away from home and family,” odds are you will be more “at home” away from civilization than in the very heart of it.

24th century federation living for the elite and privileged (like honorable discharged Starfleet officers) will have them owning or living in multiple homes….just transport to one you feel like every day.

Maybe they’re all like timeshares! Think of it, you could live seasonally in one area, then switch houses with another person, then another. You could keep all your special-to-you items in a transporter buffer and materialize them when you settle in :^D

Location costs and logistics, most likely.
Trying to rent space on a busy city street would have been expensive and created security concerns about leaks to the media. Post production, to make any place look futuristic would be expensive and time consuming.
A remote cabin in the woods?
Security? Check (no prying eyes)
Logistics? Check (everybody in one place)
Costs? Check (most likely minimal if any permits required)
Loved last weeks episode, looking forward to Thursday

Exactly what I just said above today (4/3/20): also, the budget of a TV show might not make it possible to have this show be shot in a city and also make look like something from the future.

Are they really living remotely when they can beam to the other side of the world in a matter of seconds? People in the public eye have always valued their privacy and there’s no doubt that the majority of major characters in Trek have developed a certain amount of celebrity or even notoriety throughout their careers. In the 24th century you can live in seclusion without ever being isolated so there’s a certain logic that many of the characters do choose to settle in such places.

great points!

Maybe the 23rd/24th century isn’t all that hot about plastic accommodations in their personal time?

Just be grateful that they aren’t ripping Ricker’s eyeball out just so Troi can go on a murder spree 30 minutes later!

To be fair we haven’t seen the episode yet ;) If anything is certain though, it is that anything goes in this New Trek!

I won’t lie, part of me would be curious to see Troi go on a murder spree for an episode.

I sense that I feel uneasy but I don’t know about what.

That picture of Deanna all by herself gives me pause, especially as it’s the only one where anyone on Nepenthe appears to be alone.

Perhaps my comment was not clear… I was mocking the typical worthless comment Troi nearly always would make. She would say something amazingly obvious like how a person was nervous or something but offer nothing else.

LOL! Now that I re-read your comment, I don’t know how I missed that.

Still worried somebody doesn’t make it thru the episode unscathed though.

Very nice. Apologies, despite having the power to read minds, we had no idea what you were thinking ;)

I wonder if Ms Sirtis used to say “If I have to say ‘I have a sense that he’s not telling the truth’ one more time I’m going to go crazy!!”

Yes…in MurderSpree 1 she sent Geordi to his death!!! In MurderSpree 2 she crashed the Enterprise…. Now…in MurderSpree 3…. she comes back…for YOU!!!

It’s actually explained in the episode why they chose to live there, and barring special circumstances, I’m not sure they would have chosen to live there. That said, I’m kind of pissed at the setup for it, because I don’t think it was necessary, but whatever.

We’ll see if there’s relevance later in the season. Was it, Chekov, the writer, who said you never introduce a gun into a play unless you’re going to use it later?

Yeah.. The way I heard it is if you see a gun in the first act it better go off by the 3rd.

Because production companies can rent a house to film a brief scene much cheaper than building an elaborate and imaginative set. :)

Still, I’ve always wondered about the in-universe explanation too. My friends and I always wish we could live out in the country in some kind of old villa, or castle. I suppose, if you’ve been cooped up on ships for years, a place like this would be paradise.

That doesn’t negate the desire to ALSO have modern appliances and tech in that remote cabin? Would you fancy living there WITHOUT internet, electricity, heating, running water and water closet? But that’s exactly what you would do if you lived in a cabin from 400 years ago!

regenerative value of the soil to combat a health issue with *spoiler*

Because they got older and worked an entire life in the fast lane.. It’s not rocket science

“LuLu Wilson as Kestra” Well done…

I commend the costume designer for giving Troi a dash of color amidst that commonly gloomy wardrobe of Picard, *and* harken back to Troi’s “uniforms” on TNG in a subtle way!

P.S. What is Riker doing in Kirk’s kitchen? :)

agree. i liked her look

Making eggs?

Then Riker will ask Picard to bring him the dill, on the second shelf to the left behind the oregano, and fans will go crazy over this lazy rehash – craziest since that infamous death scene in Into Darkness! :)

If that happened I would laugh and HOPE it was just an inside joke for fans.

That pink top looks like it could have come from any women’s clothing shop in L.A. or Toronto; so do the leggings ….

For that matter, any number of costumes in this show look like they could have come from a store down the street from the production.

Hey, if it saves some money to give us more Trek and avoids the JumpsuitLand! look of TNG, I’m okay with it.

When we see the interior of Riker’s and Troi’s home, since there are no content restrictions in streaming, will we see pictures of their wedding on Betazed — their naked wedding on Betazed, that is? One has to imagine that if they’re like any other married couple they must have wedding pictures on display in their home, right?


Did they ever have the wedding on Betazed? They were on their way to that in Nemesis, but they were distracted by Shinzon. After Data died, I wouldn’t be surprised if they just cancelled it.

I’m sure they eventually got there.

Riker has what appears to be a wedding ring on in the pic where he and Picard are having a drink.

He and Troi were already married on Earth. They were just going to have a reception or another ceremony or something on Betazed.

Ah, true. Point taken. Thanks for that.

Actually I would not be surprised to see a picture of Majel Barrett on a mantle somewhere.


Their full-body CGI de-ageing would probably be too costly ;-)

Exactly that.

Deep inside the forest
Is a door into another land
Here is our life and home
We are staying, here forever
In the beauty of this place all alone
We keep on hopi-in’

There’s a world where we don’t have to run
And maybe
There’s a time we’ll call our own
Livin’ free in harmony and majesty
Take me home

Take me home

Loved Grizzly Adams!

This is sort of the moment that I’ve been waiting for.

So what you’re saying is that I won’t have to watch any eyeballs getting ripped out this week?


From the start I was against this sort of fanservice casting. But now for some reasons I dom”t quite understand I’m kind of happy about it.

As long as the characters we meet have something to contribute that fits naturally within the story, I’m finding myself very pleased to see other 90s characters.

But I do get frustrated with the “why haven’t we seen —- yet?” or “why didn’t he mention —-?” that follows each one of these. I worry that some fans just take each one as a launchpad to complain that someone else hasn’t appeared yet.

For my part, I much prefer having these callbacks dribbled out. Can’t we just savour each one before looking for the next?

I agree, TG47. I will say the only one that feels weird is Geordi, simply because he was such a friend to Data and integral to the humanization of Hugh.

The teasers may be misleading, but if true I’m surprised that the both of them seem to have a much more substantial role in this episode than Data had in the entire series so far (actually appearing, not being referenced)! When the series was announced we thought Spiner would be a recurring guest star in it, alongside Ryan and Del Arco, while Frakes and Sirtis would just have a short cameo for one scene or so. Still hoping Data is back in the flesh at the end of the season!

Yeah now that you mention it VS, I remember Spiner saying he would be in at least a few episodes. It doesn’t sound like a lot but it sounded like more than one lol. But I’m guessing we will see him again at the end of the season. Maybe Data just bookends the season being in the first and last episode and I think that’s fine if so. The guy IS dead lol.

But both Ryan and Del Arco also said they would be in multiple episodes from the beginning. I was afraid maybe Ryan just meant popping up at the end of episode 4 and then leave in episode 5 but she confirmed in the Ready Room she’s in more this season.

But I really like how well the show has handled all the appearances, 1-3 episodes, give them something to do but don’t just stuff a bunch of people in for fan service. Patrick Stewart was already big enough on his own but it was no way people were going to accept a show with JUST Picard in it either and not see other familiar faces eventually. But how they are doing it is great because we will have seen 7 known characters from TNG and VOY and my guess is there is possibly 1-2 more showing up this season. A lot of people seems to think it could be Worf. Be nice if it was. Either way I’m expecting a big surprise appearance in the finale.

I’d hope we still have another, unannounced cameo this season, even if it’s just a minor player from Classic Trek. Just for the sheer surprise value. For a show so fond of its mysteries, they certainly spilled the beans on all their guest stars early ;)

Well Maddox and Icheb were surprises no one knew about (although they both just showed up to die ;)) and its because of them I think we are getting more too. And yes I still think the Enterprise is showing up!

I was thinking of cameo as in the original actor reprising their role. And Surak be damned, no more “cameos” like Icheb’s please! :(

I gotcha. Yeah hopefully everyone else will be original actors.

I seriously doubt we will get anyone from classic Trek showing up in Picard. The youngest character would have to be 125 years old by that time.

But I have also been saying from the beginning that I would expect someone else from new Trek to show up beyond 7, Data and the Rikers. I found it hard to believe they exposed their entire roster of known characters in the trailers. I think there will be at least one more. And I’m not talking ancillary people like Icheb. I mean someone like O’Brian or Worf or Janeway.

No he meant someone from TNG era. Some fans are distinguishing ‘classic Trek’ as TOS through ENT and ‘new Trek’ starting with the Kelvin films through Picard. I been seeing this in other places too.

But yeah as I said I see at least one more major appearance by a character too.

“No he meant someone from TNG era. Some fans are distinguishing ‘classic Trek’ as TOS through ENT and ‘new Trek’ starting with the Kelvin films through Picard.”

Yeah exactly. Given that to many fans the difference between TOS and Berman Trek is much less than the difference between both of these entities, and AbramsTrek/KurtzmanTrek, it is only fair to call everything before 2009 “Classic Trek” now. It’s not about phasers and warp drive, but the tone, the narrative style (episodic before) and the entire philosophical core (aliens used for critical metaphor, darkness not status quo etc.) is different.

I feel for TOS purists though now that they have to come up with a new name. How about “The Original Trek”? ;)

VS, I’m SO deeply hurt that they took “Classic” and didn’t apply it to TOS ;^)

and, good catch there, though I guess we’d have to abbreviate it TOT

“VS, I’m SO deeply hurt that they took “Classic” and didn’t apply it to TOS ;^)

and, good catch there, though I guess we’d have to abbreviate it TOT”

Well it’s a good job that VS didn’t propose calling it “The Initial Trek” then ;)

Based on that logic, when the “The Initial Trek” was followed by “The Animated Trek”, wouldn’t that be a simple case of TIT for TAT?

(runs and hides)

Oh, Harry ;^D

I just couldn’t help myself, Marja. (laughing like Beavis &
Butthead) “heh! heh heh! heh heh heh!!”

I’d prefer they NOT bring Star Trek into Hippy Trek, even if is fun watching the TNG Federation go down in flames and Picard engage in hypocrisy. Let’s divorce once and for all shows about nothing to learn because perfect life, living in the holodeck “utopia” with no need to work powered by free energy and the concept of a show that explores humanity exploring and colonizing the final frontier despite how dangerous and hard it is.

Dude, you don’t run the franchise lol. You speak as if any of this bothers anyone but yourself. Do you notice you’re literally the only one who brings it up lol. That should clue you in. ;)

And it’s ALL canon, period. You can certainly decide which shows or movies you don’t fit in your head but as far as the franchise go its ALL connected. I will never understand some fans. I didn’t love Discovery or the Kelvin movies, but I don’t think they should just be discarded just because I have issues with those but literally what many fans are hoping to happen. You have Youtubers making endless videos on it as if its a fact and where the entire ludicrous 25% thing keeps getting brought up.

I understand not everyone will like every aspect of a franchise but if we let fans decide what should be considered canon or not, 3/4ths of the franchise would be excised lol, including ALLLLLL the stuff so many fans claim to love today like DS9 and many of the films since they would argue Roddenberry would be against some of those.

That’s the real problem, I don’t want a few anal fans who are in a VAST minority on what they consider ‘real Star Trek’ is to decide what the rest of us should be seeing in this franchise. No thank you! And for the record, I don’t love everything Kurtzman is doing but I DO love that he is trying to build the franchise for different people and get so many different sides of it. As a Trek fan thats exciting. They are going for different tones, time periods, situations, etc. Star Trek is being expanded in ways we never seen. In other words maybe something for everyone and not just ONE thing only hardcore fans want. That will kill the franchise off sooner than later.

Maybe its just easier to accept Star Trek is a fictional universe (emphasis on fictional ;)) and like ALL universes there will be things you like and don’t like but accept it all exists just the same…JUST like real life.

And, here, I always thought Classic Trek meant TOS. [Snif!] :_/

And it still can lol. None of this is official, people can just distinguish how they want and that’s how same are doing it. You don’t have to do or say it that way. None of it matters.

I see. Hard for me to wrap my head around that as I still see all the TNG era stuff as NEW Trek. I guess they can be considered “middle” Trek now?

Why do we need to see a cameo appearance from somebody that was on TOS just to suit you?🙄

Where did anyone say or imply they want to see someone from TOS on this show? I think everyone knows it would make no sense since both Kirk and Spock are dead and McCoy would be around 170 years old now, so I’m guessing he’s dead too now.

Tiger, I think someone meant from TNG … to many that was their “first” Trek

I’m not just about this board, but other places too and most seem to be suggesting ‘classic’ or old Trek was from all Trek from TOS through Enterprise and new or current Trek is everything else up to now. But yes maybe others mean that too.

For me, I don’t really make those distinctions, I just call it Star Trek, period. I make it clear what show or movie I’m discussing but I don’t make it any different than that, but that’s just me.

“expecting a big surprise”
but would you be surprised, if you were expecting it? ;^)

Funny… I figured Data would just show up once or twice in the dream or holodeck or whatever flashback device they set up for it. Never did I feel like Spiner would be there very much at all. But we differ on seeing him back. It would feel like a monumental cheat for him to come back. To me, bringing Data back in the flesh would be a monumental mistake. Even bringing him back literally in the flesh by putting his “soul” in cyborg girl would be lame on Lorca from the MU porportions.

Although I never really accepted his death in Nemesis, as much of the film is so silly and out-of-character for much of the crew (Roddenberry would have definitely called it apocryphal if he called ST5 that!), and his death was so obviously just there because Spiner wanted it (i.e. was not inevitable but could have easily be avoided with minor script changes), I’d be fine with more dream sequences or a “rebirth” in a new entity, à la B4, which would not clash with canon, even the apocryphal one ;) I thought Picard’s dreams would be a narrative arc through much of the season that guide him from the darkness to the light, and not random flashbacks including those best kept for the splatter horror genre. I guess like many people, I was expecting too much from the Pulitzer God ;)

Spiner wanted Data dead in Insurrection. “Sorry, kill you later” I’ve read somewhere that he was told.
And of course he was a writer for Nemesis.
I’m torn about the death. Part of me feels it makes some sense that this could be a fitting end to his arc but I also feel the film could simply have ended without that sort of downer.

The film certainly has an emotional ending but it’s probably just a little to much for a film that is the last in the film series. TOS ended with everyone surviving and retiring, or moving on. TNG could have ended the same and the fans wouldn’t have been as divided on the ending at least.

Well… I didn’t see anything out of character in Nemesis. They all acted the same way they always had from what I can see. The only feature where I think the word apocryphal would apply is TVH. Where nearly all characters acted irrationally to the point that I was wondering where the crew of the Enterprise went.

However, the out from Nemesis was obviously B-4. The Picard people just decided the download didn’t take. Which quite frankly is the most logical result when one thinks about it. I also agree that Spiner was aging out of the role and something had to be done about Data at that point. To me, the willing sacrifice was the culmination of everything he had learned about humanity and felt like a fitting end for the learning computer.

The TNG characters are literally the only reason I’m watching this. Otherwise, I wouldn’t give a crap.

LOL, that’s the only reason one of my friend is watching, because he was a huge TNG fan growing up and ONLY TNG fan basically. He has never bothered with Discovery and I don’t think this show is winning him overall but he seems to enjoy all the appearances so far at least and loves Picard of course. He, like many of us, is super excited to see Riker again!

LOL That’s exactly how I was watching TNG when I was 8. I don’t care how bad this is, it has Star Trek on the name, must keep watching. There is an Enterprise. Oh man, it’s Riker on a Farm!!! Picard is losing it and a hypocrite but it they used the name Picard!!!! Troy and Riker have a daughter like characters from Young and the Restless!! MUST WATCH TV!!!!

Yeah, I think its why so many people stick with stuff they claim to hate. But my friend has ONLY watched TNG, he’s never watched anything else although he did try to watch DS9 and VOY at the time they aired but never liked them.

I think we’re going to find out that the Rikers are vampires. In the picture at the kitchen sink, theres no one in the reflection of that metal bowl. I’m calling it first!

I surely hope the massive planetary explosion is NOT the Romulan/TalShiar taking out WIll&Troi’s spot on the Nepenthe planet after Picard & Soji leave or escape!!! The way the’dark’ subversive tone of Picard is going so far, it’s my fear the writers would do something like this to build up the feel-good-reunion then manipulate from evil drama sake.

That’s HYSTERICAL!!!! I can’t stop laughing! I think you’ve called that massive planetary explosion. R.I.P. Rikers!!!

It’s not.

I have a feeling that will be the planet with the twin red moons

I predict that I will have tears when Picard reunites with Riker and Troi. Call me weak, but I just love these characters so much.

I really hope that the only way we see love between Picard, Riker and Troy if we see them try to kill each other and hate each other. My thinking is based in Mr. Chabon’s point about why Picard has such a dark tone. Basically he said that the only way to portray thr positivity of Star Trek is to show negativity, not goodness.
“If nothing can ever truly test the Federation, if nothing can rock its perfection, then it’s just a magical land. It’s Lothlorien, in its enchanted bubble, untouchable by the Shadow. And, also, profoundly *inhuman*. To me it’s the humanity of the Federation—which means among many admirable things, its imperfection, its vulnerability and the constant need to defend it from our own worst natures—that makes it truly inspiring. ”
So if we want see people love each other we have to see them hate each other.
Or of course we can disregard such nonsense, and see people who love each other acting like they love each other. That would be nice.

Well when Hugh and Picard reunited in the last episode I thought it was very well done and positive.

Healthy, positive relationships stand out in troubled times : Picard’s difficulties make his relationships with his old bridge crew all the more precious.

That’s just a setup for later disappointment, sorry to say.

You got to watch the rest of the season early? So full spoiler alert, Hugh is going to betray Picard? Not that it would surprise me. Everything and everybody needs to be subverted and deconstructed with these people :P

Yeah I wonder what SDK means too? Did he hear something ahead of time or just speculating?

I think you might have misunderstood Chabon.

“Basically he said that the only way to portray thr positivity of Star Trek is to show negativity, not goodness.”

That is really messed up logic that defies 50 years of successful, dramatic Trek, although all of NuTrek has used that excuse since 2009. I call BS on that because we never ever get to see that mythical end state when things are good and fixed and Utopian again.

They should just come clean. They want to portray darkness for darknesses’ sake, because it’s cool and the zeitgeist.

VS, they have come clean. Kurtzman is very clear that optimism and “hopepunk” is the Star Trek mode.

They are absolutely not in a sisyphusian nihilistic grimdark mode.

However, “hopepunk” as it’s come to be known does not mean that entire fictional universe is utopian everywhere all the time. It doesn’t mean that there can’t be setbacks, or that bad and damaging things can’t happen to good people.
Nor does it mean that the optimistic outcomes have to be achieved by the end of every episode.

It does mean that the main characters don’t give into the dark (or if they do they find their way back), and they strive for the good. Societies and individuals can be challenged and stumble, but through effort and goodwill, these are eventually overcome.

Up to now, much of Trek has focused on the challenges of bumping up against new civilizations and phenomena as the Federation reached out beyond its own space. Picard is exploring how the Federation’s fabric has been stressed and frayed by long term threats to the Federation from the (uncited) legacy of the Dominion War, the Romulan supernova and related events, and the Borg.

None of these are really new, but Picard is showing us the long hard work of good people overcoming their own weaknesses and working together to find a path to put things right. I can’t think of anything less nihilistic than that.

TG47, I have not seen that word you use outside of your writings, even in other comments, and you know at this point where so much what they have said in the behind the scenes interviews, ever since before Discovery’s premiere, has not coalesced ON SCREEN (sometimes for the better), that I now strictly judge them by what they do and not what they say.

And so far I must say, I just don’t see the light. As I remarked, after 2 seasons of Discovery, whenever the show was supposed to reach the positive end state, the resolution of their previous journey of darkness – the Klingon War, the Mirror Universe, Control’s killing spree – they came up with a new one instantely, without even letting the crew and series breathe for a moment. Right now, that means going to the far future, where, you guessed it, everything is even worse than ever before and the Federation in shambles. Based on this precedence, should we have any belief that it will be different in Picard season 2?

Overall that means to me, they are not interested in showing the light at the end of the tunnel, but perpetually focus on staying “dark”. To quote myself from a previous thread which was unfortunately not seen anymore: I think the fallacy of this kind of serialization is that in the end it is all about the “process IN darkness”, even if very gradually becoming better (or being replaced by a new darkness every time, as in Discovery). It is not about ever reaching that mythical end state of light that was, in Classic Trek, the status quo, with the occasional, two episode long deviation (in DS9, it was two seasons at most). So NuTrek has reversed this arrangement. The status quo is darkness, with the occasional light interlude, but getting to see the light in full is not the narrative point of the writers.

It is like Voyager’s writers never actually intended to show the ship and crew BEING at home, it was all about the struggle (and mostly, failure) of GETTING home, Gilligan’s Island style. And many fans resented the writers for that, especially after the show ended so abruptly. For everything created after 2009, the process now being deconstructing and subverting Roddenberry ideals, that is even more true.

Finally, I and many fans were just fine with how Trek previously operated at its philosophical core, which you describe correctly. We saw the darkness in “the other” (which was just a metaphor for a different part of us, of course), but we had the assurance, hope and optimism that we as a species were going to be fine, and that meant exploring the darkness from a safe space, NOT a mirror of the depressive awfulness many of us face in real life already. Trek was an anchor of hope for the hopeless, to inspire the next generation of scientists and engineers (that won’t happen anymore because kids can’t and shouldn’t watch eyeballs being ripped out), and yes, to keep Nichelle Nichols from dropping out but be that inspiring role model. All of this won’t happen anymore and to my mind far much is lost than gained!

So I don’t think that part – the fundamentals, really – needed and needs to be updated and is timeless, beyond production values or even the episodic/serialized question. As long as we do not see a new Trek series among the plethora of new ones that satisfies this desire for Trek in its original meaning, I will keep calling everything before 2009 the “Classic Trek” and everything afterwards… something different than Trek. I keep up my hope for a revival one day, but I do not expect it at this moment.

VS, Look up the coinages “hopepunk” and “grimdark” on the Google.

For me, the unity and mutual support of the crew for each other in the face of overwhelming odds, or darkness, always gives me hope.

VZX, I got a little teary! Everybody brought their best game.

So Kestra is Troi’s daughter? Sweet of her to make such a lovely tribute to her deceased sister.

If there’s ONE good thing to say about these writers, they certainly have Memory Alpha on speed dial! :)

Honestly if there is one positive most can agree on with this show is just how amazing they are using existing canon and adding layers I don’t think people thought they would do. They clearly have done their homework, gave thought to a lot of its placement and taking it all very seriously. Nothing feels out of place or shoehorned in like Discovery did feels at times *coughSECTION31cough*. They obviously been throwing a lot of little fan service stuff in like Quark’s bar on Freecloud or the Borg using Sikarian tech but it feels very organic. The bigger stuff with how they been dealing with the Borg and Romulans have all been great IMO.

Chabon said somewhere the one big event in this time, the Dominion War, won’t be referenced because of all the other stuff going on and not to confuse new fans too much (all 12 of them lol), but I can live with that. And they have future seasons to talk about stuff like what happened with the Cardassians, Bajor, etc.

But this is just MORE proof why it’s easier to add things going forward versus backwards.

I wonder if Deanna is now the holder of the sacred chalice of Reeks and the rings of betazed? Maybe she uses it as a pot to flowers and who knows what use she has for the rings.

I hope that Mr. Homm shows up as the Rikers’ butler.

That, would be excellent.

If he deeply intoned, ‘you rang?’ when summoned it would be truly excellent.

And if he retired to an L5 station, you’d have “Homm, home on LaGrange.”

BTW: I like Picard’s gray shirt in these pics, with the strange connection and v-neck it reminds me of the stuff he wore from TNG. Finally.

I also wonder if Kestra is really their bilogical daughter since she has blonde hair and both Riker and Troi have dark hair. Maybe she’s adopted?

Recessive genes like hair colour make for interesting differences within a genetic family.

However, in the novels, Riker and Troi had difficulty having birth children due to Troi’s extraordinary pregnancy in TNG. The writers may have carried that over.

So, it could be either.

Look at how many women in the cast aside from Seven have dark colored hair? Another blonde is a refreshing break when every other female character has hair as dark as night!

She is their biological kid, and they had a son as well who was older. But I’ll say no more. My parents both have dark hair and I have red, so it happens.

SDK, when you were a kid, did your mailman have red hair?

Wasn’t the original Kestra blond? She was played by Kirsten Dunst, wasn”t she?

Nailed it odradek!

Memory Alpha shows that Extra was played by two (then) child actors, both blond, one of whom was Kirsten Durst.

Seems to me Picard is about the only one on the show who’s wearing “futuristic” clothing … other than Soji’s demmed grey jumpsuit, would somebody please put her in something blue!? Or purple or ….

Probably ought to get caught up on this….

Could be worse. In TNG la la land everyone could be retired living in the holodeck powered by technobabble nonsensical free energy and engineered perfect androids.

What is nonsensical about M/AM power generation? The science is certainly more sound than mushroom drives :P

Have you any idea the power requirements for the AM in M/AM containment?? Sure, make up some magic dilithium but the idea that it will be a regeneratably forever perpetual motion machine throws thermodynamics out the window. The entropy clock is ticking everywhere except TNG (exception Ent-D, she didn’t last long against that 150 year old BOP. Nice holodecks for playing and putting civilians in danger, not so good for exploration).

M/AM power generation is not a perpetual motion machine, even in TNG, it still needs deuterium etc. I agree with you dilithium regeneration was not a good idea but I got the impression it has limits (similiar to the batteries on phones) and to be fair maybe the writers wanted to remove the tired “we’re out of dilithium and need to search for it” trope. They got malfunctioning holodecks and shot down shuttles instead, after all ;)

Yes they wanted to remove “we are on the frontier where we need supplies, hard work ahead, no help and on our own facing the unknown”. Think about the impact of that on a show called “Star Trek”
PS You are right that ‘magic mushrooms’ are as nonsensical as TNG. Hippy Trek is still at play, but maybe we can ignore it with Pike/Number One/Spock on the 1701?

You do realize Kurtzman is the same guy that also created personal transporters that can transport you from Earth to Klingon space, the Enterprise can also warp from Klingon to Earth in a few minutes and build mega ships that can be piloted by one person. There has been ‘nonsensical’ stuff happening for quite a long time with the Kelvin films and now Discovery. I have no idea why a Pike show would be any different since it would be made by the same people responsible for those.

In other words I really wouldn’t hold my breath. I been saying this FOREVER now, what ‘century’ these shows take place in are completely arbitrary, sci fi writers are going to write what they want at the end of the day, especially in a universe like Star Trek where you can basically dream up anything. As Discovery has proved over and over again, if they want to make spore drives, holographic communication, advanced AI robots, time crystals and space suits that can create wormholes they will no matter how much it feels out of place in the era to others.

And with the Section 31 show (who is responsible for creating a lot of this stuff in the Kelvin and Discovery) will probably go more nuts when that show starts.

I think I’ve been consistent in saying that Into Darkness ruined the Kelvin TOS reboot movie series to the point Beyond was unfairly punished. Into Darkness made starships obsolete (just beam over to the Klingon homeworld) had it where you could fire photon torpedoes at the Klingon homeworld from the neutral zone and made Kahn just a poor guy trying to get his family back from the evil Starfleet. Again, hippy Trek ruins any century. If it can take the “wagon train to the stars” out of even TOS, TNG never stood a chance. Free energy (i.e. don’t need to work for anything), no bad guys, claiming one is perfection (i.e. has nothing to learn from anyone) = BORING AND NONSENSE no matter what decade it is. Wasn’t that the whole message of “The Way to Eden”??

Yes and what I’m saying is looking at both Kelvin and now Discovery ‘hippy Trek’ as you put it lol now seems to be what Trek is today, period. So I don’t know why Pike would be remotely different? It literally takes place in the same time as Discovery and would be made by the same people who makes that show.

The point I’ve always made is TOS was just made at a very different time. And it was the first one. Every generation of Star Trek SINCE has shown more progressive tech, not LESS of it, right? Enterprise is the only one that tried to make technology feel less advanced but it had to being so much earlier than TOS. But everything since then the ships has only gotten sleeker, bigger and more advanced.

The thing is I’m not really disagreeing with you, I think both the Kelvin films and Discovery should’ve made it feel a bit more in the era they took place in, but I NEVER assumed it would either because writers want to throw in cool sci fi stuff, especially Discovery after we saw where the Kelvin films went.

And I don’t mind seeing super cool advanced tech. I don’t treat Star Trek like is suppose to be a documentary for the future, I want to see really fun, magical and cool tech and why I wanted a post Nemesis show in the first place. So I’m completely fine with the idea but yes it still should stay true to canon on some level and its clear Discovery didn’t. Again WHY I thought the show should’ve just been a post Voyager show on day one…and now they finally seem to realize that too lol.

OR, as I always been saying, if you want to just have a super advanced 23rd century outlook where time travel space suits, highly advanced AI robots and mushroom teleportation is just a thing then just call it a REBOOT and you could do whatever you wanted in ANY century. I would’ve preferred that and it could be the best of both worlds and not have to worry itself tying so directly to an outdated 50 year old TV show.

I want a Pike show as much as everyone else, but I always caution people if you think a Pike show would just be in the vein of TOS, that is probably just as misguided and unrealistic as people who thought the Picard show would be in the vein of TNG when that was announced.

That type of Star Trek seems to be dead, at least for now.

Yes I agree, exciting Star Trek is dead, at least for now (enjoying TNG utopia nonsense unraveling on Picard is fun though). You’d think a Pike/Number One/Spock on 1701 would force them out of the dull hippy Trek zone though (Discovery was close minus the magic mushrooms and want-to-be TNG starships outside of the Discovery).

Star Trek is more than exciting for many of us these days, please just speak for yourself! This is the Trek I and many love and wanted. Sorry you don’t feel the same though.

And one again, YOUR version of what Star Trek looks like clearly doesn’t seem to be the people who has been making it for the last ten years or we would’ve saw it more in the Kelvin films and Discovery. None of this is etched it in stone. Jusy sayin!

Well… THIS fan would be fine with a full on reboot. Just call it that!!! I have no issue whatsoever with the KU looking so drastically different. It’s a reboot. But Discovery looked like the 25th century and the producers INSISTED it wasn’t a reboot. THAT was the problem on that front. They took a jar of pee and told us all it was Grandma’s peach tea. I found that amazingly insulting. At least Enterprise TRIED to make it look like the era they were in.

Go ahead and reboot TOS. Maybe the new take will produce an interesting twist. I’m totally open to it. I’d REALLY like to see TNG get rebooted. I think the odds are decent that even Secret Hideout might be able to come up with a something to liven up that crew.

If you are rebooting start at the beginning.
Earth post WW3, first contact with Vulcans. All we have are machine guns, nuclear weapons and explosively pumped fusion reactors. The Vulcans think we are illogical, the Andorians think we are weak and over compassionate. First contacts gone horribly wrong (Prime Directive). Wars we are not sure we can win (Romulans). Aliens we just don’t seem to understand (Klingons). An Earth needing resources filled with people hoping for something better out there. Captains that have to make the call too far from Earth to get help from home. Lots of lessons to be learned from alien races way more advanced than we are. No transporters to just beam away from danger. No phasers on stun to just knock everyone out. No warp 9.999999 or transporters to beam across the galaxy. No time travel to simply reset when your starship gets destroyed for the forth time. Yet some how flawed humans make it work.

I agree ML31,

I just don’t see the issue with a reboot, especially now that Star Trek is a multiverse. Like the Kelvin films themselves it will simply be seen as another universe with the same characters, but different outcomes so they can just do what they want then. That was literally the point of the Kelvin movies (and people STILL complained lol).

But this time just do a straight up reboot. No gimmicky explanations why things are different, it just is. And the prime universe from Enterprise to Voyager is still there as its always been. Its really the only way there will be another TOS show. Obviously it won’t happen any time soon but at some point it will happen.

There’s no need to reboot. Good god, enough with the reboots! Go a hundred years into the future, give us a new crew and a new ship and go for it. This isn’t difficult.

I agree with you on that blackmocco, if I had the choice to doing a reboot and just going farther into the future like the 26th or 27th century, I would choose going into the future every time.

But yes I know MANY people wants to see another TOS show some day. I’m NOT really one of those people but I get it would be a very popular thing for older TOS fans. And I think if done right it would be immensely popular the same way this show or the idea of a Pike show would be.

But they aren’t doing it any time soon obviously so I prefer whatever we get that is new is ACTUALLY NEW and with new characters in other settings and time periods.

I’m fine either way. In fact, I’m generally down with whatever time frame producers would like to explore. Want to reboot the whole thing? Do it! Knock yourself out. Put your personal spin on things and see where that takes you. Want to go to beyond the 24th century? Go ahead! Want to do an in canon story of the birth of the Federation? Do that! Just stick to the parameters you have set for yourself. And, of course, show us some good stories.

oh my … that photo of picard hugged by the trois is adorable!!

So . . . uh . . . is Kestra supposed to be cosplaying an elf? Or pretending to be Native American in that picture?

Guess we’ll find out soon!

” Or pretending to be Native American in that picture?”

She’s channeling her inner Elizabeth Warren.


Yes to the elf cos-play. The reason behind it is fully explained and quite poignant.

I didn’t find the reason poignant.


On episode 5, Raffi read some files about her son in USS Discovery, anyone notice that?

Really excited for this episode for so many reasons. On a completely different note, who else thinks that the whole synth’s=destroyers is going to tie back into Control from Disco Season 2?

SPOILERS *****************************************************************

This episode was great and it might be better than last week,which I thought would be a high bar to pass.

1) The young lady who played Kestra was amazing. Her scenes with Soji was one of the many highpoints of this episode.Having her reason thorough her existence with someone who is young herself was an interesting way to view the issue

2) At first I wondered why the Thad storyline was here. Then when I heard the story I was heartbroken. This story made Will amd Denna’s generosity so much more powerful, that is they could have looked at Soji with resentment as her kind’s re volt basically doomed their son. This idea of helping someone even if you are hurting is so very powerful

3) This maybe the best use of Troi in any Star Trek series. She combined the roles of empath, psychologist,therapist and moral voice into one role. I hope we do see her again.

4) Hugh’s death was truly shocking.

5) Rios had the right suspicion but the wrong person. He is turning into one very interesting character.

6) Did anyone notice that Commodore Oh revealed emotion when she broke off her mind meld with Jurati. Oh actually seemed shocked. I wonder why.

(3) And yet, despite that, the episode did not include the name “Marina Sirtis” in the opening credits. Frakes was there; Sirtis was not.


Marina Sirtis is listed as a guest star.
The reason Frakes is in the opening titles is because he is a ‘Special’ guest star.
The way it goes really. Frakes is No.1 afterall.

Source: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Nepenthe_(episode)

It took 33 years, but someone finally figured out how to credibly write Troi’s character.

To be fair the Troi character was awfully weak and a very difficult nut to crack.

Yes, LuLu Wilson as Kestra was truly the brightest star of this episode! She just had a way of bringing the whole “picture” to simple terms so that it was understandable to all involved, especially Soji. Many thanks to Sirtis and Frakes for bringing the TNG family together and returning to their roles so comfortably, boy did everything feel warm and cudly there for a while:) Good balance between the ongoings on Nepenthe and the action on the La Sirena and the Artifact. By far the most “engaging” episode to date.

6) During a mind meld you share a mind and thoughts. I think Commodore Oh was reflecting Jurati’s reaction; she might even have been shocked by the unfamiliar emotion. When doing mind melds, Spock usually adds “I feel what you feel, I know what you know”

Disagree about the quality of the kid actor. She was… Serviceable. But I’ve seen better kids in productions out thaere.

I found the Thad disease thing to be a lame contrivance. It also made no sense whatsoever. I literally rolled my eyes when I heard it. The whole thing was designed to put the audience on the side of being against the AI ban. It’s even more ridiculous than the double secret Tal Shiar.

I still think the one and only one time Troi has ever been useful was in Nemesis when she reached out back to the Viceroy to help Worf target the Scimitar. Here she was nothing special. Just again pointing out the amazingly obvious. Except this time Picard suddenly turned from the smartest man in the room to one completely oblivious to everything going on around him.

I actually though Rios suspected Agnes but was playing with her to see if she would admit her guilt. She really is the most suspicious of the group even NOT knowing about her meeting with Oh.

Well hell.

I’m going to have to rewatch the whole episode again because I was crying through most of it.

This episode felt like some of the best drama in Trek since The Inner Light or The Visitor.

I felt there was more emotion in the opening sequence of Star Trek ’09 than in this one.

That was great drama too.

Just watched this episode before going to work this morning. I wish the previous episodes had been as good as this one. It had some time to breathe.

More exasperating wheel spinning. An episode that has no reason to exist beyond giving Frakes and Sirtis a day in the sun. Good seeing them, of course, but c’mon. Seven of ten out of the way and enough actual story for maybe four. Oh, and an annoying kid with a 24th century cell phone solves a problem Picard, Riker, Troi and a bunch of Romulan agents and scientists can’t. “I just called someone! Yay!” Seriously. People actually got paid to write this episode.

As much as I loved this episode, I can’t deny there was a lot of wheel spinning going on. But next week look like we FINALLY are getting to the heart of the story. It probably feels about two episodes too late but hopefully it will be worth it.

I think we can safely remove the “probably” from that last sentence. Haha!

I say ‘probably’ because we still don’t know where its all going yet. All the stuff we think could’ve been moved along faster or outright ignored may have a bigger play when its all done. But yes I agree with you in general, a lot of it feels too plodding and I’m loving the show lol. But its not perfect either, but tons better than Discovery at least.

” but tons better than Discovery at least.”

I don’t disagree at all. This show is unquestionably better. But as Cyrano Jones said… Twice nothing is still nothing.

I have a STRONG feeling episode 10 will be a hella cliffhanger

The rate things are going… Hard for it NOT to be. In fact, I felt that after it took them 3+ episodes to set things up when it could have been done in 2 1/2. Maybe even less.

I have a feeling that will happen as well Marja. Chabon confirmed on a podcast they are already working on the story for season 2 as well.

Yeah I got the same feeling. Seeing Riker and Troi was nice, the acting was solid but the whole episode really felt superfluous and unnecessary. Picard and Soji could have just as easily beamed onto the La Sirena at the last moment of the prior episode after some shifty maneuvering by Rios and Raffi and we would have been in pretty much the place. Once again, the overarching story grinds to a halt for some leisure time and once again it shows how thin the story is.

Sad to see Hugh get written out; in retrospect he really didn’t add much to the story and it ended up making him look like little more than a sacrificial lamb.

I did find Riker’s line that he is still on active reserve interesting; it seemed like an odd thing to say unless they plan to use at least him again.

Well not exactly because the Borg cube had captured the La Sirena. They only let it go to find Picard, but they would’ve all been trapped. And even if they got away we knew they could’ve been found at any time because of Dr. Jurati’s tracker. But obviously I get what you’re saying, in reality it was probably unnecessary even if it was great on its own!

But this is the problem when your entire story is serialized, you can’t just have a ‘quiet’ episode or something that is basically character driven, especially in a season with just ten episodes. This episode would’ve been considered the ‘Family’ type of story TNG did. When you have 26 standalone stories you can do things like this. But for this show it will feel mostly like ‘filler’ to others.

I really like the breathing room, myself. I don’t like rapid-fire plot pacing, and I like to take time with character-building. That said, there was *maybe* a little too much this time.

But I really liked Troi talking to Picard about life from Soji’s point of view. Very important for him to know.

Yes I do as well Marja. We obviously talked about this before but it is funny that Discovery gets pegged because its gogogo all the time on that show while Picard is s-l-o-w-e-r. But they specifically said Picard is suppose to be a more character driven and slower paced show so I was prepared for that and for the most part am fine with it.

BUT if the story itself just isn’t compelling enough for people I obviously get that too and understand the complaints. I think if I wasn’t SUCH a fanboy lol maybe it would bother me a bit more. But I think with this episode is an exception for many fans because most seem just happy to hang out with Riker and Troi and catch up like Picard did. Fans genuinely wanted to know what their life has been like in the last 17 years. Sure maybe if they were catching up on the bridge of the Titan or Enterprise it would the story more riveting but we all knew for a long time now the meet up wasn’t going to be red alerts and phaser rifles.

But we probably won’t know until the last episode if the season really worked or not, but I’m still really loving it!

Watching this episode I was thinking that most fans on this board would love the Picard, Riker, Troi interaction. And because of that would love the episode in general. I wasn’t particularly moved by any of it because I never found those characters interesting nor did I ever see any kind of genuine friendship develop between them during the course of the show. It KIND OF started in the features, however. But in the show it came across as respect for the boss. But there was no hint of real friendship between anyone except perhaps LaForge and Data.

Well again we have to agree to disagree on that lol. Yes, early on I agree but they ALL formed friendships during the show : Data and LaForge as you said, Riker and Worf (but Riker was friendly with everyone) and Deanna and Beverly.

Dude, we saw them playing poker every week together for literally YEARS. That wasn’t an assigned duty. They were in Ten Foreward with each other all the time, did things on the holodeck together and even supported their social activities like when Riker had a musical performance or Beverly put on a play. Its not like when their shift was over they didn’t talk to each other at all. They were all friends. Picard was really the only one who wasn’t as close to every one but even he developed a very close relationship with Beverly and they started having breakfast together back in season 4 and that continued throughout the show.

I have no idea where you say you didn’t see any genuine friendships form? Every time we saw them off duty we usually saw one character hanging out with another one. They didn’t seem to be any less close than we seen all these crews from TOS to Enterprise. In fact moreso than most of them. And of course in real life this cast is clearly the closest than all of them and it comes across on the show.

“Data and LaForge as you said, Riker and Worf (but Riker was friendly with everyone) and Deanna and Beverly.”

True, true.

But I would disagree with Picard.
Picard and Data also had sort of a friendship. Different kind of friendship than La Forge and Data, but Picard definitely enjoyed his talks with Data. E. G. Picard and Data in a Shakespeare drama on the holodec is more than just a professional relationship.

Yes you’re right Markus. Funny thing is I have said that in the past myself about Data and Picard, I just didn’t think about it here.

There was more of that with the crew than with the captain. Picard usually kept his distance from most of those crew bonding things. But a lot of those activities still had at least a tinge of obligation to it. Kind of like I feel obliged to attend the retirement lunch for someone I didn’t work with much or worked with professionally but didn’t really want to hang out with outside of work. These guys had no home to go to after their shift. Their entire life was those people they worked with. So of course their limited social life would be structured around that stuff. If they refused a play or recital it would stick out. So they pretty much HAD to go.

And this isn’t a dig at TNG. Apart from Kirk Spock & McCoy there weren’t any noticeable friendships there either. Just respect for the captain.

I’m on the fanboy side of the fence for this episode as well, Tiger. Hell, I could hang out for a couple of weeks at the Rikers’ place. Totally love the interaction with them and Picard. Very bummed out the writers chose to dispatch Hugh, though – there was a lot of potential there to make him into a proper character – now to me he’s just tragic. This show displays moments of greatness I think, just moments, but there is potential. Though I find PIC leagues better than DSC, the writing still seems pretty flimsy here, thus far. And the pace (for this viewer), is just fine.

I was disappointed they killed off Hugh too. Its funny I remember telling another poster here I didn’t see him getting killed and three days later he was dead lol. But I mentioned this on this thread already but on a podcast Chabon hinted we may see Hugh again. Maybe not alive but I have a feeling now his story is not completely over.

Yes the writing can definitely be improved. I don’t think anyone is really arguing that, its really just the degree I think. But there is nothing on this show, at least for me yet, that feels just truly BAD the way I felt happened with Discovery in both seasons of that show and most of the shows early on to be honest. Picard comes off a lot stronger and better developed. And I’m really impressed with how well they handled all the canon on the show, none of it feels forced or misplaced unlike Discovery did. But that is the difference between a prequel and a sequel usually. Prequels can definitely be done right, anyone who is a Breaking Bad fan sees it in Better Call Saul but that seems rare.

But I totally get why people feel the story itself is lagging. Their right, for just ten episodes there feel like there should be more going on, but I think they chose to just let this be more about Picard coming to grips with things with where he is in his life and all the sudden changes that are happening; so I’m fine with it personally but I know why it bothers others.

Folks, I’ve got no problem with breathing room. Slower pacing doesn’t bother me as long as you’re unfolding a story along the way. Let me clarify that doesn’t mean explosions and action every episode. Sopranos, Breaking Bad, BSG, Watchmen, GoT, The Wire, etc had no problem taking their foot off the gas when needed to build tension and flesh out story tangents so that when something then happens, all the components are in the right place. (Apologies I keep referencing the same shows when I make this point but they are the standards when comparing modern serialized storytelling) This show really frustrates me because it does the exact opposite. I’d say at least 50% of it so far could have been shaved off in an editing suite and left us with a better show. It hands us a story in measly nuggets and then just wanders off like a dog chasing a squirrel. No focus, no urgency, no momentum and worst of all, dissolving any prospect of real drama for the viewer.

Also: yes, disgusting Sirtis doesn’t make the credits, particularly as she contributes more to this episode than Frakes. But why am I surprised? None of the people in charge understand how Star Trek works.

Blackmocco, I totally see your point. I’ve said it many times here, if the story is just not compelling enough regardless of the pace I understand why its not working for some fans. I think that is the main issue with it and hopefully they can make it a bit more tighter in season 2.

It’s also why I’m not sure how much first time fans are enjoying this show. I’m a fanboy, I’m super super biased lol. I admit that, but I even said if I was watching this for the first time I would probably be bored to death. I mean this episode was great for Riker and Troi fans and to catch up; but if this your first time being introduced to those characters I’m not sure how interesting any of it was because literally nothing happened. They basically just sat around just talking and filled us in to things from the last 15 years. All the real conflict happened in the other side plots.

Dude, I’ll bet good money there is NO-one watching this show who is not already a fan of Trek. There’s no appeal.

I don’t think its that many either. I never did though. SOME people are watching of course, we know Wil Wheaton’s wife is watching and apparently she never watched Star Trek. ;D

But I’ve seen a few people on the Star Trek reddit board that say this show is their first one so that’s a good sign. One actually seems to really like it and started watching reruns of TNG while curious about the others. So its GREAT when people can watch these shows for the first time and want to check out others. But yeah I’m pretty sure any new people watching are on the very, very low side. Maybe I’m wrong but I just have a hard time seeing this show that exciting for the masses. I hope I am.

Except she didn’t tell him anything that nearly any reasonable person wouldn’t already have some sort of grasp on. Suddenly from one episode to the next, Picard’s IQ dropped 150 points! It almost feels like writers decided that in order for Troi to be worth something she has to talk to someone who is nearly completely oblivious to the world around him.

Smart one episode! A dunce the next! The kid they just met figured it all out on her phone! Quality storytelling.

It also jibes with Picard’s brief time with Dahj, who he seemed to have no problem empathizing and communicating with; not to mention the fact that Dahj’s programming led her to Picard but Soji’s did not. If they’re supposed to be twins you’d think they would both have the same protocols.

I actually liked the breathing room. And I did feel the pacing general mixing of the two storylines in the episode to be quite well done. It’s just there was way too much syrup with the Rikers and that idiocy about how positronic research would have saved their child. And after joking about Picard and Kirk in the kitchen we had Riker there! I guess after masquerading as “Chef” on Enterprise he decided he liked it. :)

I felt the same way about the kid. She wasn’t outright annoying as you put it but it was pretty close. The fact that she just used her iPhone to get the info was amusing. But yes… This episode felt more manufactured than anything else. One can totally see how the story originally did not include the Rikers. They felt shoehorned in.

Loved the episode! Felt like reuniting with old friends. One nit: Its a big planet. It was convenient that Picard and Soji arrived so close to the Riker’s home but still not close enough to avoid a fairly long walk. Did Picard give Hugh coordinates on the planet or just tell him to send them to Nepenthe? I also found it disrespectful that Sirtis didn’t get an opening credit. I agree with what others have said about this being one of her best written episodes!

She should also have been a “Special Guest Star”

I hate bullshit billing

I was furious about that. I feel like she’s never quite gotten her due for how great a component of TNG she is, and here’s this episode only making her seem like an afterthought from a credit standpoint.

Maybe Sirtis needs to fire her agent?

Having a counselor on board gives you so much potential and was such a modern idea.
But they got a science consultant for the physics, unfortunately they had no one to bring in real psychology and bring Troi to real life.

Sirtis though always stayed faithful to Star Trek. She deserves more credit

Well, there is a small chance at least that Sirtis did not wanted to be there. I remember reading that Diana Muldaur wasn’t added to the Main Title sequence in TNG season 2 because she herself didn’t wanted to be there for some reason.

In any case it seems fairly obvious that Frakes got more money than Sirtis for this one, that’s how totally “woke” they appearantly are.

What a great and emotional episode! THIS is ‘fan service’ done completely right. It was so great to see Picard with Riker and Troi again. And how they all interacted just felt so natural as if they been friends this whole time. I really love seeing this version of Picard and it’s just so true of age and how we all evolve and change. I love Picard in TNG and the kind of person he is but he’s not someone I would necessarily want to have a beer with lol. This Picard is so much more vulnerable, but also open to everyone. It’s great to see how much he’s changed! And Riker and Troi didn’t miss a beat. I loved both in this! And Kestra was amazing. The kind of backstory they gave them was so interesting an layered more than I ever assumed it would be. I know we probably won’t see them again this season but they have to come back next season for sure. It just wasn’t enough for me.

And oh yeah, but Hugh! That gutted me man. :(

Aw man, I can’t believe people are digging that kid. Dreadful. The long tradition of annoying, know-it-all, “hey, I can fix it!” brats in Star Trek continues. Haha!

Yes, I clearly have no soul.

LOL I wouldn’t go that far. But I honestly thought she was fine. I do get your point its a bit eye rolling she solves a problem for Picard in literally two minutes that all these veteran Starfleet officers couldn’t figure out on their own but as a character she was great IMO. She came off like a regular kid and was so empathetic to Soji, which I think why so many of us like her.

I’m with you, blackmocco. I find kids in Star Trek to be really irritating.

For some reason children in Trek have been a VERY tough nut to crack. I cannot think of one instance in ALL of Trek where a kid centered episode was good. I think the closest it came was the one where Icheb’s parents intentionally sent him to the Borg with a virus. Using the kid to distract the Guards in “A Piece of the Action” worked, too. But that was a very small part. Naomi Wildman… The Borg kids… Wesley Crusher… None of the worked. Even guest kids had a tough go. The kids from Triacus… The Miri “kids” (wink wink). Every minor in TNG… Failures. I’ve felt like it was probably best to give up on that and not deal with kids in Trek ever again.

Edit… What was my head? Jake Sisko and Nog were terrible at first but evolved into something useful! There is the exception. And of course, it had to be DS9.

For some reason I never had a major issue with kids being in Star Trek. Wesley was never my favorite but I thought he was fine. I think they did make a mistake making him a prodigy, piloting the ship and all of that so early (he was still a freaking teenager lol) but they wanted to give the character something to do. And I really liked Naomi Wildman, she came off as just a regular kid and not annoying. It is funny between her and the Borg kids, it was Seven out of all people who had the closest relationship with the kids on board.

But I do agree on Jake and Nog. And like many Nog was one of the kids I DID hate for a long time but then grew to love him. That character was so well done, starting out so aimless and a trouble maker to end up an honorable Starfleet officer. I still love that scene where he breaks down in front of Sisko and tells him why he wants to join Starfleet. He and Jake had great chemistry and it was clear the actors themselves became good friends.

RIP Aaron Eisenberg!

Ha, have there been any kids in Star Trek who haven’t been precocious and smart and irritating? Jake and Nog seemed close to ordinary, I guess.

Nog irritated the hell out of me at first just because he was a rude and sexist Ferengi youngster … but I loved him once he started growing up and got on track for Starfleet.

Nog was a product of his society. I guess to fit in with the Federation it required he abandon his heritage.

Jake was great.

I didn’t mind the kid; she seemed earnest and sincere, even if she did come across as a bit of a know-it-all. But then again, I didn’t mind Wesley either.

What I did find odd was the constant references to that unseen, apparently senile retired captain also living on Nepenthe that everyone talked about (can’t remember his name). Having a charaacter who is never seen or even heard figure out the location of Soji’s homeworld via 25th century text messaging just came across as silly to me. But hey, at this point you just gotta roll with it.

~~ S P O I L E R S ~~
Tiger, It’s really interesting to watch Picard struggling with interpersonal understanding. I think on the Enterprise he “had people for that,” like Counsellor Troi, and while he worked with and understood his senior bridge officers, and was a good CO, he showed a remarkable lack of concern for Raffi after they left Starfleet. I think this is because he was feeling very hurt, himself, but still.

Right now I have the awful feeling that almost everybody who works with him in this mission is gonna diiiiiiee

I did chuckle when he told Riker that all of his current crew is carrying so much baggage, something he never had to deal with in the TNG days. So true but also a neat microcosm of how shows are written today vs. 20 years ago.

I almost saw that line as a reminder to the audience that this show is NOT TNG.

…and I loved how Riker put the shields up around his property, how he suddenly went back to being an officer, barking commands at his ceiling. Very cool.

Ummmm, anyone catch preview for episode 8??? Particularly the frame with seven of 9 right before preview ends?!? Wtf???

Extrapolating from what was said in Nepenthe, and the fact that Elnor activated the Ranger distress signal, it’s a pretty safe bet that she will be the xB that destroys the Borg cube. Hopefully they don’t killer her off in the process. Hugh’s death was disappointing, hers would actually bother me.

I don’t think you will see 7 perish. Hugh? Icheb? Sure. They were ancillary characters. Not all that important to the grand scheme of things. But now way they kill off one of the new legacy characters. At least this season. I can see it happening in a future season, however. But that character would have to play a rather large part in the season for it to carry any weight.

Yeah I agree. I have a hard time seeing them kill off 7 seeing how popular she is and people would be VERY upset to bring her back to just kill her off. Maddox, Hugh and Icheb were all shocking in some way but as you said none of them were major characters either. Hugh was in more episodes on this show than he was in TNG. Seven is a MAJOR cast member, its very different.

Of course she can die. Technically anyone who is not the title of the show can go at any time, but I think if they did kill her it would be in later seasons.

I think 7 is doing in the preview what Hugh was going to try to do before dying. She’s in the Queen’s chamber and is taking control of the cube. You’ll probably see some Borg – who are in the bowels of the ship not yet having been reclaimed – reactivated. She’s going to interface with them essentially.

How awesome/shite would it be if they made Seven the new Borg Queen?

That’s what it looked like. I thought she had become new borg queen.

Just finished watching Ready Room and it was SO great to see Frakes and Spiner on there with Wil Wheaton. I can listen to those two talk Star Trek all day. And their characters were both the ones I fell in love in the first episode in Encounter at Farpoint (Wesley not so much lol) and they stayed my favorites throughout the franchise although I eventually learned to love all of them.

It’s a bit sad we will probably never see Riker and Data in the same room again but I never thought we would see them again at all, at least not played by the same actors. So I’m happy to get whatever we can with them going forward! For this fanboy it’s all really exciting to be where we are now.

Love Stewart and Frakes! Marina Sirtis gave a great performance as Troi in this episode. BUT, I have to say, this series is utter tripe! So disappointed! This really is not Star Trek!

This ‘Meet the Rikers’ episode was nice and fuzzy feeling. But it literally did nothing for the show. Are any of the officers from the previous shows even in Starfleet anymore on active duty?

Maybe that’s the reason why Picard didn’t get his old crew together. But Geordi and Word are still out there. Maybe we see Capt. Worf of the Enterprise on the last 10 seconds?!?

Now THAT’S how you use Troi & Riker without ruining the series by putting them in the final episode. A very nice single episode which was a bit like Picard meeting the retired Kirk.
But that episode could have been placed anywhere. It didn’t contribute much to the plot. The story moved only 10 minutes forward. Maybe it should have been the 2nd or 3rd episode. Except the scenes on the cube and la sirena, which should have been at the end of the last episode. The beginning really felt like it was part of the last episode and then removed afterward.
OMG! They killed Hugh! Those bastards!!!!!! Why?!? He would have made a great team with 7of9!

I was also really disappointed that Hugh was written out so abruptly. I would have liked to see him and 7 work together as having 2 ex-Borg would have made for some interesting storytelling. Given how little we saw of Hugh, he came across as a sacrificial lamb, introduced, given the briefest of screen time (probably less than 10 minutes across all his shows) and then summarily killed for shock value. What a waste of a character.

Absolutely agreed.

That was what I figured we would get a lot of here. I saw that Hugh got aced and thought “people on Trekmovie are not going to like this”. But I was fine with it. And even kind of expecting it. He’s that that important.

It isn’t so much a case of not liking it as it is another example of the predictable, lazy writing in these new Trek shows. I can just picture the writers sitting around a room, arguing that they need casualties to highlight the drama and cherry picking one or two semi-popular but not very important characters to re-introduce, build up via interviews, clips, pics and sound bites and then quickly dispatching them when they don’t think we’ll expect it. Even for a minor character like Hugh, the death didn’t feel earned. It felt gratuitous and sensationalized.

Well TonyD, I listened to the Picard Podcast this week with Michael Chabon on it. He was asked if Hugh was really dead and while he didn’t give a firm answer either way he hinted we may see him again, so its possible he may show up in the future. Chabon reminded us its Star Trek and people come back from the dead all the time. Not suggesting that will happen but he may be seen again in some form at least.

I was really hoping they wouldn’t kill off Hugh, but knew they would. All those personal struggles and advances he made for all those years, only to be killed after Picard shows up and then leaves? Ugh. The darkness.

This season is shaping up to feel like a “time travel reset” is on the cards. Romulus is destroyed and the neutral zone has been abolished, Romulan citizens are suffering; Picard feels old and useless thanks to his retirement; the Tal Shiar is operating with impunity; the Riker-Trois have lost a child thanks to the synth ban that led to the aforementioned suffering of the Romulan citizenry. Seven of nine is a bitter vengeful murderer. Hugh and Icheb are dead.

Time to slingshot around the sun methinks…!

(As for the episode I thought it was ok – 6/10. I enjoyed the Riker and Troi material immensely and I thought the stuff on Rios’s ship was good too. Some of the science was a bit sketchy – why couldn’t Narek detect that they’d dropped out of warp? The science in Picard is less prevalent than it was in TNG but it’s entertaining enough).

Time travel reset!

This is a Kurtzman show so there will most likely be no reset. To quote Rance Howard in Ed Wood, “it has to end with a big explosion”.

I hope you’re wrong, but I did think the Elnor fight with the Romulan lady devolved into schlock this week, so why not the rest of the season… I’m still enjoying it overall, mind you

I don’t think there’s anything to reset. I do think the Commodore is from the future though. There’s something about it that makes me think the Federation’s downfall that we see the aftermath of in the next season of Discovery will be because of this synth threat. Picard will stop Soji and the others from being destroyed and in doing so, will lead to the near destruction of the Federation. The scenes during the mind meld were practically the same as what we saw in Discovery season 2’s glimpse into an AI future. It’s there for a reason.

It’s just so *bleak*

It’s like the Enterprise D / Veridian III destruction in Generations before Picard goes back and resets things. Or like the “year of hell” – which this feels like actually. Everyone is so beaten down and miserable – I mean I know life isn’t perfect but I feel so badly for the Riker-Trois. And Seven. And all Picard’s new crew.

Everything going wrong seems to stem from that synth attack. Stop that, the futures bright again.

I’m not sure the DSC images are connected yet but I’ll wait to be proved wrong!

The destruction seen during the mind meld was very reminiscent of Spock’s visions from Discovery season 2. Apocalyptic visions do tend to blur into one another after a while but I hope they’re not planning to tie this into Control (the rogue AI from Discovery, not the secret organization from Get Smart). It was a tired, used-to-death trope when Discovery lifted it; I’d hate for it to be the payoff of this show as well.

I think it reasonable to get off any connection from Picard to Discovery S3. 800 years is an awfully long lead in time for anything from Picard’s time to manifest in Discovery’s. Think about. How many things in 2020 can be traced back to 1220? How many things in 1720 can be traced back to 920? Perhaps architecture and some words in the language… Did the Roman empire begin its downfall 800 years before it happened?

I seriously hope PIC is not remotely related to DSC. Seriously.

Yeah, that’s like being stuck at the loser table at a wedding.

…near the bathrooms and a drafty door. Absolutely.

They said before everything that is happening in Picard will have nothing to do with Discovery next season, they are two completely different storylines.

THAT said though, it didn’t take long for people to see the connections between Control wiping out the galaxy in the future and supposedly the synths wiping out some of the galaxy in the future. I can kind of see where some are assuming a connection there lol. I really really hope it has zero to do with Control though.

Maybe the “synths” / “control” elements are an allegory for social media?

Or… since control came back in time and assimilated the probe so it could destroy the future, so too will Soji go back in time to destroy the Romulan star (hence “the destroyer”) and Picard will stop her.

The fate of the universe started to slide into “the two decades of hell” following the Hobus star going nova, which led to the synth attack, which led to all our characters (not to mention hundreds of millions of Romulans) having horrible personal tragedies and circumstances.

Stopping that one historical event would brighten things up considerably.

Although it’d be cool if Picard had help from a time jumping Michael Burnham – maybe he could borrow her time suit?

“Although it’d be cool if Picard had help from a time jumping Michael Burnham – maybe he could borrow her time suit?”

Please god no. Don’t give them ideas.

Haha I’ll be more careful lol!

Although I’m surprised our Michael hasn’t even been mentioned yet – I expected her to have been Picard’s hero at the academy…!

LOL… Great call Dr C!

Nah, it’s just lazy writing. Appearantly we can’t have a Star Trek-story which isn’t about the end of the universe anymore. That’s all they can think of now, it has to be bigger – more lifes at stake and whatnot.

Next time they encounter a gigantic plothole which not only threatens all life in this univere, but all other “mirror”/alternate universe’s & all timelines as well because that’s the only way they think the audience will care anymore.

One other point: Oh hey, it’s the La Sirena Emergency Medical Hologram! Good to see you again! Yeah, we’re good. We’re good. Hey, wanted to ask you: remember when you tried to stop Jurati murdering Maddox in cold blood right in front of you? Yeah, it was, like, just two episodes ago for us? Maybe an hour or two ago for you? I know, it SEEMS like two years ago because this show just takes too damn long to do anything but it’s true, for you on the show, it really literally JUST happened. Yeah, you watched her do it and she deactivated you and stopped you doing what you’re there specifically to do? Yeah, I know. Really makes no sense whatsoever, does it? Oh, we’re just not going to mention that to anyone again? Or maybe we WILL, but let’s not mention it NOW when it would actually make some sense and create some drama? Yeah, no reason? Wow. Okay. Well. That’s great. Alright. Okay. Yeah, maybe they’ll mention it next week then. That would be t-h-r-e-e episodes later. Makes perfect sense. Yeah, you’re right. I should just trust the professionals. They know what’s up…

Picard is reminding me of The Walking Dead in that it’s rather slowly paced with a lot of exposition and you have to wait a week between each episode, so any momentum that was building up is killed by a week off (not to mention commercials – does anyone sit through them anymore?). When watching TWD on say, Netflix, binging them in a row uninterrupted, the show is 100% more enjoyable. Same with any weekly show binge-watched, imo. Anyway, with the slower pacing of Picard, *which I like* I think the week wait between episodes is doing this show a disservice. It’ll probably be much better on re-watch done in a row with no breaks, which I’ll probably do before cancelling CBSAA again.

I guess I’m just old. I’ve never binge watched anything and have never had the desire to binge watch anything. I cannot sit still on my couch for that long. Just can’t do it. Once or twice I watched three episodes in a row. But that’s rare. For the most part I will watch one episode then catch the next one a few days later, if it’s on a streaming service. Shows on cable and over the air stations I just watch on my DVR. Which if I’m being honest is not as busy as it used to be. Either TV is getting worse in general or my standards for what is worth watching is higher than it used to be.

Can’t imagine a scenario where I’d sit through any of these shows again, sorry to say. A huge chunk of Trek’s appeal for me is the rewatch factor. I tried Discovery season 1 and just gave up half an hour in. Star Trek’s not meant to be this much hard work.

I appreciate that, blackmocco. I tried to go back and watch the last few episodes of DSC S2, and just couldn’t be bothered with it. Maybe PIC will be better? I’ll try. But you’re right, it shouldn’t be a chore like this…

The rewatch factor is a lot lower in season long story arcs. They just are. It has to be one helluva story for even a short season to be worth an entire rewatch.

I’m sorry I gotta say it. I’m kinda getting tired of this “Synth” story line. Kinda getting boring. Another thing, Hugh’s death was so pointless. Kinda pissed about that too.

Why Picard introduce Riker as Commander ?

Per Chabon, it was Picard doing it out of habit.

“Plethora” means too much, an excess of something–more than is wanted. It doesn’t mean “a lot.” So your headline says “There’s too many photos…” LOL

Why would Commander Oh need sunglasses when it was established in prior series that Vulcans evolved for an environment with harsh sunlight? Nictitating membranes, remember?

Did anyone else think Tamlyn Tomita’s Vulcan makeup looked slapdash compared to her previous scenes? Her prosthetic ears looked more crudely fashioned somehow. In comparison, Peyton List’s ears look far more professionally crafted.

The way they stick out to the sides rather than sweep back also make her look more like an elf than a Vulcan.