Jonathan Frakes Talks Directing The Far Future For ‘Star Trek Discovery’ Season 3

The latest edition of Star Trek Magazine (#75) has just arrived with a number of great features and interviews, including one with Star Trek: The Next Generation star (and Star Trek: Discovery and Picard director) Jonathan Frakes. One highlight from Frakes’ interview is his discussion about Discovery’s upcoming third season.

On finding a future and Burnham’s new POV

The focus character of Star Trek: Discovery has gone through a lot in the first two seasons. Frakes reveals where Michael Burnham finds herself now.

Discovery feels to me like my home show now. I just finished Episode 3, Season 3. We’re far in the future now and Burnham has been separated from the [Discovery] crew, and then they reunite. I was talking with Sonequa. We were talking about acting. She’s one of those actors – not unlike Patrick – where you can give a note and it’s like a fine musician. It’s just enough to get in tune on that particular beat, or that micro transition, as opposed to when you give a note to somebody who doesn’t have the technique, and they drop everything else and only play the note you’ve just given them. Sonequa and Patrick and most of these actors have that [technique]. I said to her, “This character is so appealing and interesting and complicated, and always has been, but there’s a little more joy [now].” She said to me, “Because Burnham is now no longer driven by fear and guilt.” I thought, “Wow.”

The second season ended with Martin-Green’s Burnham in the red angel suit flying ahead and leading the USS Discovery through a wormhole into the distant future. Some preview images and clips for the third season have shown Burnham along with a new character (Book, played by David Ajala) on some planet. Frakes’ comment indicates she and the rest of the Discovery crew will remain separated for the first couple of episodes.

This season three preview image shows Burnham back on board the USS Discovery

The third season finds the crew of the USS Discovery 930 years in the future, setting the show beyond all known Star Trek canon. Frakes told STM about the practicalities of this challenge.

They are all so thrilled. That’s the adventure, technically, financially, emotionally. You can create worlds that nobody has seen before because you’re not limited by anything. That’s freeing. But it’s also completely exhausting because even a show this big has to stay on a budget. Everything can’t be created digitally. Some of the stuff has to be real. We just have to have some things you can touch. In the future, obviously, there could be a lot of stuff that’s holographic or where your mind is connected to something. These are all things we know are coming, just from the way we use our iPhones to run our lives and plan our trips. So, finding a future that’s futuristic but is practical to shoot has been fascinating. You can’t get caught up in the technology. It is about maintaining a basic core of why we’re there, which is to tell emotionally compelling stories. That has been the driving force, as opposed to the other way around. Nobody is making the mistake of, “This has to look cool.” It’s great when things look cool, but if you don’t give a damn about the people or what’s happening, it doesn’t matter.

David Ajala as Book and Sonequa Martin-Green as Burnham, holding some far future devices

The third season of Star Trek: Discovery is currently in post-production. A teaser released last week promised it will arrive on CBS All Access “soon.”

Star Trek Magazine #75 on sale now

You can pick up Star Trek Magazine #75 directly from Titan for $10.

Cover of Star Trek Magazine #75

For Discovery fans, there is also an interview with Hannah Cheesman (Airiam). The latest issue also includes interviews with Star Trek: Picard‘s Isa Briones (Soji), Michelle Hurd (Raffi), Alison Pill (Dr. Jurati), and Santiago Cabrera (Rios) as well as a feature exploring how other Star Trek iterations have approached the theme of artificial intelligence. Some sample pages can be seen below.

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Aucka Lukaum

Before all the boo birds get in here, just let me say that I love Sonequa and I love Burnham, and I don’t care who thinks what is “real” Star Trek!

Cmd.Bremmon

I probably am one of the “boo birds” but I actually love Sonequa and love Burnham too (and am, shock excited about Discovery)! Hopefully with the TNG Federation toast we can let her do some exploration and frontier colonization! Show those superior in capability AI life forms that they really don’t have our same exploratory spirit and imagination eh? = )
Maybe though they can find an adrift Constitution class cruiser, maybe save the Valiant or something and switch ships??

Athus

You hate TNG, I think that some of the TNG cast rob you some money or something, lol..

Cmd.Bremmon

Time is more valuable than money. Lol And I don’t blame the cast, I blame 90s Roddenberry for trying to destroy 60s Roddenberry’s awesome legacy (the writers I assume just had to go with it, except for Voyager – I’d blame you but I was too tuned out after about season 3 to even watch that no foul for me.). The cast, which I thought was good, was the real victims missing out what could have been more of a good thing with some more sensical, action/adventure, fun stories.

Tiger2

Maybe you should blame yourself for watching 14 seasons of shows no one forced you to watch. ;)

Cmd.Bremmon

Better learning late than never I suppose! Could have been a lot worse (didn’t watch Threshold, but comments about it are always funny).

Tiger2

So it took 7 seasons of each show before you came to the epiphany you didn’t like it? But it was sooooo boring’ and ‘nonsensical’ how did you manage to get through 160+ episodes…and multiple films? That’s petty late learning dude.

Threshold was bad though, so you didn’t miss much…although I still think Spock’s Brain is the worst Star Trek episode of all time. But that’s a close second.

Athus

He is just an obvius troll..

Tiger2

Not a troll….just different lol.

Cmd.Bremmon

Well I like to think that if the original series was 80% Spock Brain quality episodes, I would have tuned out even before high school. May I never be so desperate for entertainment that I’d watch anything with a label. That being said, thank goodness for episodes like Balance of Terror, the Doomsday Machine, City on the Edge of Forever, Errand of Mercy and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn. That’s a hill worth going down fighting for.

Tiger2

That’s the funny thing about TOS to me, I really like it but if I’m being honest there is probably about maybe 20 episodes I rewatch over the years and the rest just whenever I catch them I guess. But I LOVE TOS, make no mistake, I don’t pretend I was being tortured watching the lesser episodes like you do with TNG and probably seen every episode at least a dozen or so times, especially as a kid. But the great majority aren’t high on my rewatch list and probably why I don’t watch it as much these days. All the ones you named seems to be the ones everyone mostly likes though if they watch TOS. I think every Star Trek fan has watched WOK at least once even if they are not big on TOS. It’s almost blasphemy not to lol.

tom riker

thank khan you’re the first comment… im not reading the others… i love the cast of disco and how each season is a different type of show but it keeps growing… im so happy frakes is so apart of it and i can tell he’s excited and i can’t wait… this is star trek as much as ds9 was star trek and tng etc… i will never forget the boobirds from 25 years ago being all “that’s not star trek” about ds9 and they were wrong then and they’re wrong now.

Tiger2

Tom Riker I will never understand posts like this? I’m a HUGE fan of Picard so far and I defend a show if I think someone is beating up on it a little too much but I EXPECT people to come to a message board and just have an honest discussion about how they feel about a show or film.

I’m not trying to get on your case but I just always wonder when people say things like this what exactly do they expect to hear when they come to a website? Do you really just want a hundred posts of people gushing about every episode, character and scene? How boring would that be every time you click on and everyone is raving about every little thing they saw in the latest episode? Even if you like the show, you can’t tell me you see no issues with it at all? Not one?

I mean I can gush with the best of them lol and I have. When I really like something or someone I say it proudly. Same time when something bothers me I want to say what it was and why and NOT have people thinking I hate the show and hope it gets cancelled. Yes maybe some people come off a little too negative (and yes there are certainly trolls) but most are just honestly saying how they feel. No one is out to just hate Star Trek, they are simply disappointed with some of it and saying why. And as its always pointed out, isn’t that how most Star Trek shows improved in the past? From TNG to ENT? By pointing out what doesn’t work and hopefully they change course? Can’t you argue that’s partly what made DIS a better show in second season even if others still think its bad?

tom riker

not reading the boo birds :) i have no idea what you wrote… but ive heard it all before from the ds9 haters years ago and been there done that… trek fans don’t change but the old ones get replaced by enthusiastic new ones… you take it in… enjoy… have fun debating then get on with your lives… that’s what should happen… many of you wallow in misery for some reason… not all is good… voyager was terrible… enterprise awful… many tng season were not great especially 7… ds9 had some stinkers for sure… to all the haters, enjoy your misery… to the ones who like trek enjoy that too

Tiger2

Stop sounding childish, you read it because you responded to this lol. You’re not 12 years old. And how am I a ‘boo bird’ because I can be critical of it but yet still say I like it? That’s how this works man. I love Voyager, but you think it sucks as you pointed out. Are you a ‘hater’ or just felt the show let you down? I don’t take it personally its just how you feel. So others are not allowed to feel that way about Discovery and Picard? Why? Because YOU happen to like those? You don’t see the hypocrisy at all here? Trust me, everyone else does.

And notice NO ONE is getting on people’s cases if they truly love the show. I think its fine you think its a great show, zero issues with it. But I never understand these arguments because you pointed out what people thought was bad Star Trek at the time. So how is Discovery being treated differently than those exactly? Every show has had its critics, yes? Every.single.one and many still do today. So what am I missing? Nothing, right?

And clearly you’re the one miserable because you’re spending time on a message moaning about people’s opinions instead of just being able to accept others has different opinions than yourself. This is actually why I come here and not to listen to an echo chamber. Enjoy not reading this post either but you know I’m right, you just don’t want to hear it.

D Tweedie

Only thing to say from me was Picard had a TERRIBLE ending.. how stupid was it, and such poor writing …

Boze

Why do you care if it is Star Trek, then? If you enjoy it, you would enjoy it even without the “Star Trek” title.

Spock Jenkins

Fully agreed Aucka!

J D

I learned something today….I’m a “boo bird”. Who know.

Ortzinator

“She said to me, “Because Burnham is now no longer driven by fear and guilt.””

Thank goodness.

kmart

(paraphrasing TFF) Those can’t be made to go away with the wave of a wand, they’re what make us what we are, if we lose that we lose ourselves … I don’t want my pain taken away, I need my pain.

The most interesting idea with Burnham was the LORD JIM aspect, having a life going forward changed forever based on a moment’s decision (in Conrad, it is a moment of cowardice.) It’s the same thing that would have made Harriman such a compelling character going forward if they’d had the guts to do a real E-B story (maybe a limited series) after GEN, because he would forever after (or at least the next 78 years) be thought of as The Guy Who Got Kirk Killed. No matter how many galaxies he hopped or worlds he charted, he’d still have that, either at the front of his record or at least with an asterisk.

The fact Burnham wasn’t played in an engaging way or written right defeated all that DSC potential, and if they’re totally clear of that now (have only seen ep1 of s2), then she is probably even less interesting.

ML31

She was all over the map emotion wise. I honestly did not know what was driving her.

Fair comment. Burnham as a character really suffered from the upheavals in the writers room. I suspect that any limited continuity that there was was solely due to SMG’s performance.

GarySeven

Bad writing was driving her.

Athus

What is complicated about Burnham? She is perfect, she can fix a brain or a transporter, she can 1 v 1 Klingons and be fix a warp core with only one hand. She is the chousen one.. she is a Mary Sue.

Pawl Stanley

You mean the ultimate Mary Sue

The Collector

Remember she was Spock’s inspiration too. I hate Discovery’s writers and showrunners… that includes Fuller who seems to get let off the hook for much of the abomination..

Agreed. There’s nothing complicated about Burnham–at least, not during the first two seasons.

D Tweedie

Agree.. great character and likeable . Time to get on with it… (Time was a pun BTW) lol

Steve

There must be two SMGs because I have no idea who the person Jonathan Frakes is describing. I find Burnham unbearable. Hopefully the universe won’t revolve around her this season, that’d make a nice change.

Athus

It will, you know that. She is going to save the Federation in the future.

Steve

Yep. And over-act the entire time getting there.

Rich

Moving on from this series. Two seasons were enough of a chance. There are lots of great alternatives to choose from.

Allen

Please let me know those alternatives! I’m basically quarantined for the foreseeable future with only Prime and Netflix for friends (And All Access until my month is up – I cancelled right after the last Picard episode). It’s actually hard for me to find a good show to get into. I typically lose interest in something after a few episodes.

The Collector

Have you tried The Expanse? It’s a bit of a slow burner, but is really good from the fourth episode onwards.

Tiger2

I watched the first three seasons and generally liked it but haven’t started on fourth season yet. Is that one as good as the others?

ML31

I saw the first season. Thought it was pretty good. But the 2nd season didn’t record for some reason. It’s been so long now that I lost interest.

kmart

Carnivale, The Wire, Deadwood, from the UK there’s The Hour and The Game, that’s well over 100 excellent hours right there. And books.

ML31

I started watching Deadwood some time ago. Was unimpressed. Never saw Carnivale or The Wire.

Trek in a Cafe

If you like Anson Mount, you should indulge in Hell on Wheels. I found it because of Discovery. It’s amazing and he is pretty perfect.

ML31

I watched Hell on Wheels years ago when it was on AMC. I liked it a lot. The main problem I had was there was SO much time between seasons that I literally forgot what happened at the end of the previous one. It always took an episode or two for me to catch back up.

kmart

I watched the whole run of WHEELS as it aired, but was pretty disappointed by the last couple of seasons though Mount delivered the goods throughout. M:I-5 is another UK series I adore, wish the Bond folks had hired some of these writers, the last 15 years would have been much better.

ML31

I am forced to agree that the last two seasons the show did sink a bit. But I still liked it. And I did really enjoy MI-5.

Trek in a Cafe

Yes I am glad I missed it then. Same with Babylon 5. It’s a commitment.

kmart

B% had its ups and downs, but I still rewatch it every five or seven years — though I’ve only seen s5 through once. TNT was dropped from our package DURING s5, so I never saw the last half of the season till a couple years later. When I did see the finale (JMS almost makes Stuart Baird look like a good director by comparison), I disliked it so much that I just decided to stick with the first 4 seasons, which for me wrap up the series just fine, especially with its look into the future. I love Sinclair, Gkar/Londo and tolerate Sheridan.

Soren

Same here. I made so many excuses for this dross but once Picard started I realised its problems were going to be permanently hard wired into anything Kurtzman touched.

Danpaine

Yeah, I’m out too. I’ll check out the reviews and comments here, but expect much of the same. Sad to say, first Trek series I’ve dropped.

DeanH

I don’t love Discovery, but I do like it and I am looking forward to seeing what the writers can do with S3. Getting thrown into the 32nd century should be liberating and hopefully we see a great story or stories. No matter how long it lasts, 4-5 seasons or more, most importantly enough people watched so that CBS committed to opening the door to a whole new Star Trek universe of shows including Star Trek Picard, Short Treks, Lower Decks and if we are lucky a Pike/Spock/Number One/Entrprise show. If that is the legacy, so be it, but I do hope the writers can make S3 one to remember for all the right reasons and the show gets a nice long run. We shall see.

M113

This will be Discovery’s last season.

Legate Damar

What makes you think that? They’ve been talking about a 3 season run for Picard, but I haven’t heard any word that Discovery will be ending that quickly.

ML31

I personally have no insight but to be honest I would not be surprised if this is it for them. There are other, more compelling projects coming along. Ones that may bring in a larger audience. Discovery did not really do what CBS needed them to do. I think this could be a make or break season for that show. If it is thought Discovery is bringing in subscribers it could go on. If it continues to be decisive and not help the service I can see CBS dropping it.

Tiger2

Same DeanH! Oddly I have never been truly excited about the show until now. Season one I was VERY skeptical of it but naturally was hoping to love it…but I didn’t lol. Oddly I was more excited about season 2 because the premise just seem very cool and felt like old school Star Trek again. And yes I couldn’t wait to see Pike and Spock on the show. But it was more about those things and less about the Discovery characters themselves. I still didn’t really care about the actual ship, just how it would be included in the story it was telling.

But season 3, I’m actually excited for both, being thrown in a COMPLETELY new setting that we haven’t had since TNG premiered (technically Enterprise too but we at least knew something about that era). And I’m really curious to see the character’s place in this setting. Like will they be part of this Starfleet? Or are they going to settle down on a planet somewhere? Will they ever think to try and go back home? It just opens the door wide open to all the possibilities out there. As a writer it must be fun to know you can now do anything you want with them without having to look up episodes of ENT or TOS and ask yourself if its feasible? ;)

I’m sort of in the middle with Burnham. I don’t hate her at all but I understand why others do. I think SMG is a good actress but her performance on this show has been mixed. But to be fair I felt that way about Avery Brooks when Sisko showed up as well. He was clearly a great actor, but something just felt ‘off’ to me about Sisko, at least the first few seasons. But from fourth season on and with that bald head I loved him lol. He just ruled that show for me from that point on. And it was clear Brooks just became more comfortable in the role. I’m not holding my breath that’s how I will feel about Burnham but I have a feeling more will like her in time.

And you’re right no matter how people feel about Discovery it at least proved that people were willing to pay for Star Trek and to go forward enough with other shows. I’m honestly convinced that was going to happen regardless, but if DIS truly failed its first season in, probably not as fast as we are getting it.

I’m with you too DeanH.

I’ll definitely watch it. I’m curious to see how it turns out.

I’m worried though about the level of lurid melodrama that the new writers seemed to feel was necessary in the latter part of S2. The ensemble is so rich in skilled actors that there is no need for that.

Mike

So, only on Episode 3 filming?

Yeah, Season 3’s “Coming Soon™” at the start of Picard’s 10th episode is looking like 2021 at the earliest.

Chris

They have finished filming the season over a month ago the interview in the magazine was obviously done quite a while ago.

DIGINON

He probably meant he finished post production on it. As a director he is involved long after principal photography has ended.

Rear Admiral Damien

You can deny it all you want, but I’m pretty sure most of you Burnham haters would be just fine if she weren’t a black woman. Yeah, I said it.

Athus

What? I love Sisko, I love Janeway, I love Uhura.. Discovery did not invent anything. Useing the racist card only proves that the character is bad.

The Collector

Absolutely pathetic and totally unhelpful comment. Shame on you trying to smear Trek fans in such a way just because they want a well written and consistent show with good characters. Shame on you!

Incidentally, I love SMG, but Burnham is an awful character and completely out of place in the Star Trek universe. Maybe she’d fit in well in Marvel or DC.

Steve

Nope. On the other hand, I’m pretty sure there wouldn’t be anywhere near as many people loving her… if the exact same character was a white male. Yeah, I said it.

ML31

If Michael were a white male I’m pretty sure the character would still be considered weak by the vast majority of those who think that of the character now. I know I would.

Steve

I was talking about people who love her. Suggesting they only love her because she’s a Strong (black) Female Character™ leading a Star Trek show. Take away that and make the same character a white male and those seem people who love her would suddenly dislike the character.

ML31

Gotcha.

Not really … my favorite Trek Captain is a black guy. And always did like Janeway in spite of how uneven her character was written (Kate Mulgrew was awesome in OITNB, which also hat plenty of black women) … so I don‘t care about that at all. I actually liked the actress, when she was on the Walking Dead.

But I can‘t stand Burnam. She is a terribly lazy written character and it pretty much destroys what Trek was always about, that every season has to be about her saving the entirety of existence.

Imagine the role of Burnam being played by a stereotypical white guy. Let‘s say Starship Troopers Casper van Diem … can you honestly say, you‘d still be a fan of the character?

Luke Montgomery

Exactly. A main character who is a white dude (Kirk et al) can go around being like a superhero and saving the day over and over. A woman? A black woman? Then all the fan bros start talking about how “unrealistic” the character is. It’s simply racism and sexism. Plain and simple. Quite obvious and boring really. Sonequa is an amazing actor. I absolutely love her. A big part of the hate is that she is actually written as a vulnerable real person – with it being 2017-2020 and not the cardboard 60s, 80 and 90s. Gone are the days of the alpha male hero (and just as fake one-dimensional female characters written to be like these fake men and therefore “legit”.) But who cares about these retrograde whiners? They don’t write the show – the best their talents have merited them is writing a snippy comment of a fan blog post. Yawn.

That has to be sarcasm

A34

You’re right.

Jay

I like Discovery. I like Sonequa Burnham. Discovery is the return of Star Trek! The first two seasons were a bumpy ride, due the show runners and writers being fired. Season 2 was a lot better. Way much better than season 1. Can’t wait for season 3.

ML31

“It’s great when things look cool, but if you don’t give a damn about the people or what’s happening, it doesn’t matter.”

And that, among a lot of others, is the main problem with Discovery. I find it difficult to give a damn about Burnham and most of the characters. If I don’t care abut the characters then the situation better be really good. The best TNG episodes were ones with a great situation because those characters are difficult to care about.

AllenWrench

It would help if things slowed down so Burnham could be given an actual character, beyond being a walking plot device to rush everything forward. For example, Trek’s characters usually have a hobby or quirk of some kind: pets, painting, Shakespeare, Dixon Hill, Sherlock Holmes, collecting antiques, playing trombone, baseball, water polo, obsessing over chocolate, coffee, Davy Crockett, etc. Even Spock could sit down and pluck out some music once in a while.

Tiger2

Wow AllenWrench you made an amazing point. I just realize we don’t know a thing a about these character’s interests or hobbies. All the main characters before that was developed with them usually by the first season. Because as you said, we just never see them in their down time like the other shows. That’s what I loved about TNG, DS9 and VOY the most, you saw them just being people a lot of the times when they weren’t on duty. Some people seem to hate the holodeck but its why I loved them, it gave us an insight to the characters lives and interests beyond just saying they liked reading literature or history; you could see them actually exploring it.

But yes on Discovery, I can’t think of one single thing any of these characters enjoy besides Staments liking opera (and that’s a very known Star Trek character trait ;)) but I don’t know what interests the others have, especially Burnham? Like what she does she do after work? Who does she spend time with? We seen her and Tilly do a few things together like eating and training but zip beyond that. It’s crazy Data and the Doctor has more interests and hobbies than these people lol.

AllenWrench

Wasn’t there also a party with people playing beer pong or something? That’s the only off-duty activity I can recall. But yeah, more casual stuff would help develop these characters.

It’s odd the old episodic series with limited time to tell a story each episode still made the time to have those moments, and this serialized series largely hasn’t. They should have room to play.

Tiger2

Well to be fair though, those shows got 26 episodes a season and DIS gets roughly half that. That’s still no excuse though, two hour films do a better job showing well rounded characters than DIS does because it’s mostly plot driven. The character stuff is there, I think we learned a little about most of them last season at least but they still don’t feel whole the way Riker, Paris, Janeway, Trip, Dax, Bashir, Odo, Data, etc does and I’m talking about their first seasons on the show because not every second showed them just fighting off Klingons or trying to solve a time paradox. The characters were allowed to actually be people too.

And it does speak to the fact they just stuff waaaaaay too much plot on this show. Look at Picard, it was only ten episodes and also very plot driven and yet they still manage to have actual character moments like Rios as a much whole character who obviously loves to play soccer/football, reads philosophy and listens to Klingon opera. Just a few minutes of him playing with a ball, reading a book and this guy is already more developed to me as a character than Tilly is who I know really really wants to make captain some day (still?) and very little else about her as a person. Oh and she’s quirky.

Cmd.Bremmon

I’d say look at Number One (the classic one, not the other guy as good as he was at nav deflectoring Picard). How much time did she have in the Cage and Discovery? That being said by making her interesting AND putting her in some chance to shine situations AND allowing her to be different you are just desperate to see more despite little to no screen time.
I think the problem with Discovery is that they try a little too hard to make the characters TNG perfect that just doesn’t fit with their situation as early space explorers, caught in a war they can’t win. You don’t need to invent faults but you can let them have to fight a bit and bleed a little (like Kirk, he might be the best Captain ever but even he gets blooded!).
This is in contrast I feel to Picard where everyone is perfect, and there is no external conflict (i.e. boring universe) they have to invent all this personal conflict that doesn’t really fit but had to be there so you had some story to tell.
Let your characters have to learn! People like the underdog (no one is perfect in all situations!). These aren’t AI characters that can do all, be all, that’s why they need to be a team/family.

Tiger2

And yet I find the TNG characters way more interesting than the Discovery ones. And I don’t think anyone on Discovery is ‘perfect’ either, except maybe Pike lol. Yes, I will agree he comes off as a version of Picard (which is probably why I and others like him so much ;)) but the others do have conflict or made mistakes. For pete’s sakes Burnham went to jail for trying to start a mutiny in the first episode and she’s the star. Yeah I admit I can’t see anyone doing that in TNG lol. But in DS9 and VOY though (since there have been literally episodes of someone trying to mutiny).

ML31

My problem with the TNG characters is that they never went anywhere. I don’t recall Picard ever confiding in Will or the Dr that he might be unsure of something. No one really had any issues to overcome, save Worf. Who was a Klingon functioning in the Federation. The shows after TNG all had characters with journeys of some sort. Sure some were more interesting or shorter or longer than others but they had them.

Tiger2

Well that’s just not who Picard was, but he did talk to Troi sometimes. The guy actually cried to her in Generations after his brother and nephew died. Before then, I didn’t know Picard COULD cry lol. He would talk to Riker about some of his personal issues at times and Beverly was with him when he was taking in Sarek’s emotional pain. But yes he was mostly a closed book most of time, that was the character. But I don’t disagree I don’t think they had a lot of conflict other than Worf as you said. It never bothered me but I understand why it would others. I think that was one of the big (and positive) changes Rick Berman made when he created DS9, those characters had TONS of conflict lol.

Cmd.Bremmon

That kind of feel flat when after all that crying he then goes back in time not less than like an hour later and forgets to save the family members in question.

ML31

That’s a plot hole in Generations. It’s always a mistake to give characters control over time. When I was watching that movie and it looked like Kirk and Picard may not succeed, my thought was give up, get swept up in the Nexus, and try again.

But yes, why didn’t Picard go back to before the fire and warn his brother? Then he could later just detain Soren and keep him from returning to the station… Etc..

Tiger2

The less we talk about Generations and the idiotic Nexus issue the better lol. I’m almost sorry I brought it up now.

ML31

I feel like Berman learned a little when the other shows were created. For the most part every character created after TNG were more interesting than anyone on TNG. And yes, that’s subjetive but I said it and I stand behind it.

I’m about 3/4 of the way through season 3 in my TNG rewatch, BTW.

Tiger2

Dude that’s fine. Like who you want lol.

I love the TNG cast, obviously many and why TNG became so iconic. But not everyone is going to love all the characters and your reasons are valid.

FASAfan

Same with The Office (US). Characters did not grow. Things happened to them, but they didn’t grow until the very last episode.

ML31

The main thing in The Office was the Pam and Jim thing throughout the run of the show.

ML31

To be fair a lot of that could be attributed to the short seasons…

AllenWrench

Maybe, but it only takes a few seconds to show a character putting down their paintbrush or musical instrument or whatever to go on a mission. Or just a line of dialogue about their hobbies. It doesn’t take much.

Tiger2

Yes as I said, Picard had LESS episodes and yet they still managed to show people doing other things. It was mostly Rios but that was because they were on his ship most of the time.

ML31

I played water polo myself so I thought it was pretty neat that Archer was tossing the Mikasa around. But still, overall he was a pretty weak character IMHO. It takes more than a personal connection to make a character interesting. Although in Archer’s case I wonder how much of that was bad casting…

Tiger2

I don’t know why but I can listen to Frakes talk Star Trek for hours! :)

And I love his comments here about Discovery. It gives me real hope the show can break out and be its own thing in its new setting. It’s still crazy we now have shows that have expanded the Star Trek timeline by a thousand years, from Enterprise in the 22nd century to Discovery in the 32nd! I can’t wait until we get future shows that could take place in other periods like the 26th or 28th century. Picard is boldly going into the 25th century now and we know since its a big hit on All Access they aren’t going to let that go anytime soon. And can maybe expect a spin off show of some kind when Stewart calls it a day. This is the Star Trek I been waiting to see since Voyager went off the air.

All the possibilities are so exciting now! I’m just hoping we can all stick around the next few years to see it. ;)

VZX

Same on Frakes! Btw: I like how he said “most” of the actors are good lol.

Tiger2

LOL!

Athus

How do you know that Picard is a big hit? Most of the fans are disapointed.

Tiger2

I’m talking about the actual views. Chabon said the show was a big hit for All Access and was the most watched original show there. I mean is that really a shock lol.

And where are you getting ‘most’ of the fans? Even this place which is usually pretty cynical most seem to at least like the show even if they still had problems with it. I lurk on Trekcore and I’m shocked how many like it there as well. But sure I know people are disappointed, but I don’t know where you are getting ‘most’ from?

Tiger2

I’m talking about the actual views. Chabon said the show was a big hit for All Access and was the most watched original show there. I mean is that really a shock lol.

And where are you getting ‘most’ of the fans? Even this place which is usually pretty cynical most seem to at least like the show even if they still had problems with it. I lurk on Trekcore and I’m shocked how many like it there as well. But sure I know some people are disappointed, but I don’t know where you are getting ‘most’ from?

Atheul

And what do you expect they are going to tell you? That the show is a failure? Do you honestly belive them? And when Chabon claim that? Do u have a link?

Tiger2

Dude its literally on this site lol. It’s where I read it from. There are quite a few articles here about Chabon so I don’t remember which one but man just Google and see what comes up or click on the Chabon links here if you think I’m just making all this up.

And are you shocked???? What exactly on All Access has more hype and interest than Picard does right now? Do you know anyone talking about Strange Angel, If Women Could Kill or Twilght Zone? Well you tell me then, which show do you think is pulling in more views or hype on there?

And since they are already working on a second season (and where he mentioned it) then that should clue you in it’s not a failure right?

I didn’t say it was The Mandalorian or The Witcher, I’m saying it was a hit on ALL ACCESS and I will be the first to say that’s a pretty low bar in general lol. But a high enough bar for this show to score multiple seasons. ;D

I am curious to see how it’s doing on Amazon though but I heard nothing.

And you still answered my question, where did you get ‘most’ people were disappointed?

Tiger2

Sorry I realized you weren’t the one who said most people were disappointed in the show. That was the other one.

ComicOzzy

Get rid of Kurtzman, drop the stupid F bombs and hipster talk, and bring back legendary episodic show-runner Rick Berman! Frakes is the only thing really keeping longtime fans, (or whats left of them!) ‘slightly interested with any remaining hope’.And people that are actually creative talents who know how to write a captivating story in a 45min time-frame and give up full 22-24 series. That way we can get to know all the crew much better. This format just doesn’t let anything breathe and spends way way too much time on ONE character and cinematic visuals. Its like fingers on a chalk board! Episodic stories which great character development is what created and built the Star Trek fandom! Episodic stories is what took us away from the weekly grind of life to escape into a Utopian world where we were so much better than where we are today. If the main CW shows such as The Flash can still do it, there’s no excuse.

Luke Montgomery

It’s not the 80s. It’s not Sunday school fakeness. The F-bombs are great.

Denny C

The F bombs are gratuitous (and I’ve been know to drop a few on any given day).

It’s just as fake to act as though f-bombs and vulgarity won’t get you a reprimand or out the door in many workplaces.

The writers of these shows may work in protected creative workspaces where it’s permitted or tolerated, but most of us don’t.

It’s been nearly two decades since I’ve heard the f-bomb in a work setting, and in that case the employee was definitely in a extremely distressed situation.

A34

LOL, some people just love living in the past.

DaveCGN

I bet he’s gonna be directing Discovery from the captain’s chair behind him. Oh, wait… Haven’t we already seen that somewhere? I can’t remember where it was…

DaveCGN

Plot twist: the crew will make the discovery that they (and their ship) were always part of the 32rd century and had been displaced in the past via quantum leap. Something went wrong and they lost contact to Ziggy.

Jeff

I am impressed at how Frakes is able to match different styles of shows and do a great job with them. I think recently he’s directed episodes of Discovery, Picard, and The Orville. All of which feel different than First Contact.

quarkpt

So — back when Discovery season 2 ended, the show runners, writers, etc, were very excited to move the action to the 32nd century. They felt that writing for Discovery in the 2250’s was too constricting because, thanks to TOS, TNG, etc, we already know what the future holds for the Federation, the Klingon Empire, etc. By jumping ahead they escape those constraints.

So — now that they’re doing a 32nd century show, doesn’t that implicitly apply that same constraint to shows that take place earlier? Like for example, “Picard”? Isn’t that a problem for “Picard”?

And if it isn’t — if it turns out that you can tell perfectly good stories despite knowing the macro-level future of the society — then why did the “Discovery” writers find it so restrictive that they took extreme measures to escape the issue?

Tiger2

No, the issue with DIS was that it was just a decade before TOS and we already knew how much of that universe looked like and was laid out which DIS didn’t want to conform itself to. TNG wasn’t the issue because that’s a hundred years away. The issue was just setting it so close to such an iconic show but then changing everything about it. And it was going up against 50 years of canon.

Picard is 800 years prior to Discovery. How is that remotely going to be a problem outside of destroying the galaxy or something? We have no idea what our future will look or be shaped 100 years from now, 800 years is literally impossible to predict.

And both Picard and Discovery are creating new canon as they go so it doesn’t really matter and my guess is will mostly stay contained to their shows. People were actually convinced that this season of Picard was going to have some ripple effect of Discovery 800 years later when that wasn’t the case. Writers are NOT going to write themselves in that kind of crazy corner lol. Anything they do in Picard or future shows will mean almost nothing to Discovery and my guess is whatever is happening on that show is some crazy time component thing. And even if its more mundane than that and just something actually political it probably didn’t happen until a century prior or something.

Cmd.Bremmon

32nd century the Federation is in ruins – why?
AI-Picard who decides he is limited, builds himself a new upgraded version of himself and transfers to the new body while engineering himself millions of clones (maybe have a new younger actor take over)… AI-Picard then claims himself dictator of the Federation given only HE has the value set to lead the Federation. Then he allies with the synths to rule the galaxy in the name of taking care of everyone. He could then even show up in Discovery. BOOM – the tragedy of AI-Picard!

GarySeven

“ It’s great when things look cool, but if you don’t give a damn about the people or what’s happening, it doesn’t matter.” Frakes is 100% correct. And that is why I no longer watch Discovery.

Pawl Stanley

Bingo. Brother Seven speaks the truth.

ML31

Yep. I spoke on that above.

Denny C

Nailed it. After the Enterprise went to warp that was a wrap for me.

Boze

I’m certainly curious about that “little more joy” thing, because “appealing and interesting and complicated” certainly aren’t the words I’d associate with Michael Burnwood. I’m no art critic, but she has exactly four facial configurations – brooding, pissy, melancholic smile and indifferent – and every once in a while, there’s some residual sap leaking out of her facial knotholes. Everybody keeps repeating how SMG is a great actress, but her work on Discovery could’ve fooled me. :P

Sully

While I agree that the SMG plaudits are very much emperor’s new clothes to me as well, she is a veritable acting champion compared to Mary Wiseman. Her impressive range includes sounding stupid and going glossy eyed when she has a boo boo.

Cmd.Bremmon

I have the feeling that if they made her a little less Wesley Crusher Tilly’s likableness would go up. I think a lot of people can relate to her, what they can’t relate to is that she seems no limitations (causing the disconnect since we ALL in real life deal with limitations). An honest performance review that maybe she isn’t command material causes her to reevaluate and improve herself? An acceptance that she isn’t command material and a dedication to her field? Or maybe she just makes a big mistake, learns she isn’t perfect and has to work through it. Or she falls in love with someone serious that isn’t taking her seriously? Needs something for sure.

Rohrerbot

It’s a great show. People love it. I agree with some of the points, but it’s a fun run of writing. As with both Picard and Disco, the stories are a bit fast paced. But when I watch the older shows now, they are also slower:) Either way, I’m glad both series are on the air with excellent actors.

Soren

Frakes will say he loves anything for a pay cheque.

Tom

they pay him for this?

Tiger2

Yes, if you don’t like the show, completely acceptable, but stop acting like everyone feels the same way and if they say otherwise they are lying. It’s eye rolling.

Tom

Easy Tiger
I understand my joke implies I dont like the show however I dont think it implies I think everyone feels the same way. I really do not care who likes it or who doesnt. i dont mind anyone posting their opinions either way.

Tiger2

No, my response wasn’t meant for you, but to Soren who is implying Frakes only likes the show because they are paying him to work on it.

I didn’t actually know you were joking until now lol. I thought I was backing you up. ;)

Tom

All good Tiger2 Lol
always good discussing Trek. Your posts are always well thought out and interesting reads

BeOne

I was there at the dawn of the third age of… (you know the rest)

Picard’s Patty

I enjoyed the second series of Discovery so much more than Star Trek Picard.

D Tweedie

Where the hell is Discovery… its finished.. so PUT IT ON AIR … now more than ever as you will have so many viewers… EPIC FAIL

If you check the Jeff Russo thread, D Tweedle, you will see that he has received the edited versions of S3 episodes 1-5 and is composing the score.

So, while production is complete, it sounds as though post is about one third through editing and vfx.

I suspect they are working as fast as they can remotely.

Dilithium Paradox

Just please keep Frakes out of the directors chair. You need to cut all of the STNG legacy away. Frakes likes continual moving shots which are nauesating/fad. He is not a good director or writer. Braga/Braga drove the Trek story lines into the ground, nothing new and creative after first few seasons. Borg, borg, boring. Frakes is not better. Just break with the past.

Tom Beaudion

I really enjoy all of the new Star Trek, and excited for the rumored Capt Pike show. The one thing I can not stand about Burnham is her attitude that only she can save the day. She gotta be the one to do everything her own, and she’s gotta be the messiah the savior. It’s the oh it’s gotta be me only. TNG characters relied on each other as a team and never tossed one person to be the savior. Oh and how she argues with the Capt until she gets her way, shut up Burnham the Capt said no, then when she’s told no she gets angry and or tears up like she’s going too cry. Don’t get me wrong perfect casting. Love the cast.

The speeches, the good bye speeches, and every off too battle we go speeches. “Sir we have Klingons inbound, they’ll arrive here in 3 minutes!” “Red Alert” but we have an extra 4 minutes for everyone to say goodbye to each other before going into a battle, and telling each other how great they are, ect,ect,ect.

But I still love all the Star Trek shows and they’ve all been casted well. Rewatch Disco you’ll see what I mean and then you’ll be like doh he was right. Did Picard and Kirk and crew give goodbye speeches before fighting the Klingons or Romulans? Nope!

Can’t wait for Capt Pike and number one to return for their own 5 year mission, gonna be awesome.
In Picard let’s wrap up Siskos story, Janeway story, bring in Chakotay, Capt Kim,