Jonathan Frakes Is Happy ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Didn’t Have Riker Still On The USS Titan

Jonathan Frakes is again talking about one of the new Star Trek shows he has worked on, as well as his first movie as a director.

Frakes is ready to get back to work directing Star Trek: Picard

On Wednesday Jonathan Frakes joined IGN’s Watch From Home show for a live commentary and Q&A on his feature film directorial debut, Star Trek: First Contact. During the event he confirmed his return to the director’s chair for the second season of Star Trek: Picard:

I’ve been asked, so I’m looking forward to it. I can’t wait to get back to work,

Earlier in April, we reported Frakes saying it has been “a blessing” to be directing the new Star Trek shows for CBS All Access, and he expects to continue, saying “The directing has been fantastic for me. When Discovery worked out and then Picard worked out and now there will be a new one, and another one.”

Production on the second season of Picard was set to start this summer, but that has been put on hold due to the pandemic shutdown. Frakes seems eager to return to the director’s chair. In addition to his comment during the live Q&A, yesterday he sent out a couple of “throwback Thursday” photos on his social media featuring himself directing television shows, with the message “let’s get back to work.”

Sir Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard, Jonathan Frakes as William Riker, and Marina Sirtis as Deanna Troi in the Star Trek: Picard episode “Nepenthe”

Frakes glad Star Trek: Picard didn’t have Riker on the Titan

In another interview from April (with ComicBook.com), Frakes talked about how he expects to see more Star Trek legacy stars on Picard:

I do expect to be back to direct the show, and I also think it’d be a good bet that we’ll [see] some other members of Next Gen because I think the ‘Nepenthe’ test went very well. I think to see if there was an appetite. I think they suspected there was, but I think to see if it would resonate to have Picard reunite with some of the people in a creative way.

It is a pretty good bet more familiar faces are going to show up on Picard. We already know that Whoopi Goldberg will appear in the second season. And Frakes’ TNG co-star LeVar Burton recently stated he too expects that all of the main TNG stars will show up on Picard, including confirming he was already in talks with the show’s producers. And last year Star Trek: Voyager’s Robert Picardo also said he had some preliminary discussions with Picard producers as well.

Jonathan Frakes as the retired William T. Riker in “Nepenthe”

The episode “Nepenthe” found Frakes’ William T. Riker retired from Starfleet and living with his wife Deanna Troi (Marina Sirtis) on the tranquil forested planet Nepenthe. Speaking to ComicBook.com, Frakes said he welcomed this evolution of the character:

I’m glad we didn’t come back on the Titan, for instance, that we were found on another part [of the universe]. It’s 33 years or something. As Picard as changed, so has Riker and Troi and so has Seven.

In the film Star Trek: Nemesis, set 20 years before Picard, Riker left the U.S.S. Enterprise to take command of the U.S.S. Titan. While never shown on screen, Riker’s adventures on board the U.S.S. Titan were depicted in a series of Star Trek novels. In addition to Captain Riker and his wife Commander Troi, the non-canon Star Trek book-verse assigned other well-known characters to the crew of the Titan, including Tuvok, Nurse Ogawa, and Wesley Crusher.

2017’s Fortune of War, the last book in the Titan series

William T. Riker may no longer be living on the U.S.S. Titan, but Star Trek: Picard did show him in command of a starship. In the season one finale, Frakes returned as Riker seen leading a Starfleet task force to protect the Synth homeworld. However, Riker’s command seems to be temporary as he described himself as the “acting captain” of the U.S.S. Zheng He. Frakes had to “self-direct” this scene in Toronto, with the Star Trek Discovery bridge set redressed.

Jonathan Frakes in “Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2”   

Watch Frakes talk First Contact

If you missed the live event, you can still see the full Star Trek: First Contact Q&A with Jonathan Frakes on YouTube, or below. He discusses the rumor that Tom Hanks was going to play Zefram Cochrane, the origin of his nickname “Two Takes Frakes,” and more behind-the-scenes tidbits.

 

The full first season of Star Trek: Picard is available now on CBS All Access. If you haven’t yet subscribed, you can get a free month: CLICK HERE to try CBS All Access FREE for 1 month. Use code ALL to redeem. 


Keep up with all the Star Trek: Picard news at TrekMovie.

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Jay

Jonathan Frakes is all good vibes. Everything he touches, its a success!

kmart

in-sur-rec-tion

tom riker

i’d love to hear him do a q&a with insurrection actually… obviously it doesn’t work as well… he might be too polite to discuss it… it’s less him that’s the problem and more the story that’s laid out… it’s still a likable adventure but would love to hear how things went down with that. i remember seeing a different ending at a screening of it. liked it better than the ending they ended up using.

Ambassador Sybok

I think he was reasonably frank about “Insurrection” and what didn’t wokr during the audio commentary he recorded for the 2009 Blu-ray/DVD release of the film. Could he have been harsher, yes, but that’s really not his style (in my opinion).

Tiger2

Yeah I listened to that audio commentary with Sirtis too. They were VERY honest about the movie lol. And he directed the movie fine, its just a weaker story that felt closer to a two part episode instead of something more epic and grand like First Contact. I still wish he directed Nemesis but he said in the First Contact Q and A event it wasn’t even offered to him.

And there seems to be a ‘rule of two’ when it comes to Star Trek directors not making more than two movies. ;)

ML31

Personally I think it was probably a good thing to get a new take on Trek with Nemesis. Other BTS issues aside, Insurrection was easily the weakest of the TNG features. I agree that it did feel more like a two parter from the series. I really did not like Picard acting as judge, jury and executioner either. That felt VERY out of character. The “horray” moment played as a “Holy crap! Picard just let him die!” moment. Was that Frakes’ fault? I have no idea. But still, I think Trek needed a fresh eye regardless.

Tiger2

Agreed, it could use a fresh eye. But NOT with the director they got for Nemesis. That was just a disaster to me. I know how you feel about the movie, but as you stated before you are clearly in the minority. The Nemesis story line wasn’t all that bad IMO but the direction made it worse.

tom riker

i had started working here at the time and had many friends on trek… we got the script for nemesis long before they started production… i didn’t mind being spoiled :) was great reading it… it reads SOOOO much better than the movie… logan was clearly a fan and he’s such a good writer… people were excited for it… but the director and budget really impacted the result. i kept hearing snarky stories during production. i was at paramount at the crew screening and i remember seeing the opening sequence with the assassination of the romulan senate and i knew there was trouble… on paper it’s a grand epic moment… but on screen the way it’s shot is bland, small and emotionless… same for the rest of the film. and before that in logan’s script there’s this beautiful imagery of the creation of life mixed with the opening credits and all that was tossed. has anyone ever posted the original script? i prob still have it somewhere.

kmart

I am seriously not a fan of Logan’s work at all and think he is probably the most overrated writer working and getting to trash my two favorite franchises, but absolutely agree with you about how Baird minused things massively on NEMESIS. The guy got three shots at major features and managed to make a mess of each one, even though he had Jerry Goldsmith to bolster things on them all!

Baird is like a lot (not all) of editor turned directors who don’t seem to have a camera or visual plan, they just burn a lot of film to get a ton of coverage and figure they’ll make the movie in the editing room. That can maybe work for some brainless actioners, but you still need to put the camera in the right place to get a shot worth cutting to, and he seemed seriously weak in that area, as bad as he is with actors and staging (that Data/Picard talk scene, which is on the deleted scenes part of the disk, is absolutely lame in its non-staging, making a painfully long scene absolutely unnendurable.)

A highly acclaimed cinematographer, Dante Spinotti (LA CONFIDENTIAL, THE INSIDER, THE QUICK AND THE DEAD), was originally supposed to shoot NEMESIS, but then we wound up with the guy who shot TOP GUN, which is a pretty massive comedown – have to figure Spinotti didn’t want to waste time trying to teach this guy a cinematic approach to filmmaking.

FrostUK

Never seen the original script for Nemesis. But you’re completed right, the director did an awful job. He had no idea what he was doing. It’s well documented that he thought Geordi La Forge was an alien. And the fact he never directed a film again speaks volumes. Solid editor though, to be fair.

kmart

I’m not a fan of him as an editor either, probably because his most highly-acclaimed stuff are nearly all movies I really dislike or outright despise, like THE OMEN, CASINO ROYALE and SKYFALL. Couldn’t even get halfway through LEGEND OF ZORRO, and lasted even less on REVOLUTION, though that might have sucked no matter who cut it.

I think his cutting of LADYHAWKE may be what keeps it from attaining ‘special despite stupid’ category for me, because the photography is gorgeous, but the pacing is just scattershot, with good scenes seemingly truncated and other scenes just meandering. I finally got it on Blu-ray during a Warner ‘4 for 44′ sale and still felt cheated afterward, despite how wonderful things looked (yeah, the score also is a kinda-like-it/really-hate-it thing, that’s a factor, I should have gotten 7 DAYS IN MAY on blu instead.)

Most of the stuff he did that I like (LAST BOY SCOUT, DIE HARD 2) were films where he edited as part of a team. I like OUTLAND, but that is largely in spite of the cutting (and especially in spite of the dumbness of Hyams’ writing.)

ML31

I thought the directing was fine. I found it better than Frakes’. This film managed to make me care a little for Picard and even more amazingly, for Data. The scene where Data turns B4 off “indefinitely” was surprisingly touching considering we were dealing with souless machines. It was the first time ever I, as a viewer, felt any kind of emotion for the Data character. I have a hard time chalking it up to Spiner since he has been playing the part for years and never evoked that kind of response. It was how the scene played out on screen that did it. That scene made Data’s sacrifice later mean something more. Sure, that Argo scene was out of place and silly, but that 3rd act more than made up for it. It was an appropriate and satisfying send off for the TNG crew.

Part of me wonders how the film would have come out had Stewart played both parts as was originally intended. But my theory is that using Hardy probably worked out better. I keep thinking that Stewart would have hammed it up too much.

Tiger2

As usual, have to definitely agree to disagree there!

Marcelo

It’s also important to think about the fact that Michael Piller wrote Insurrection (it was his turn really after Moore and Braga got to write the first two), and he was much-beloved by the Trek family. I agree that the script was the problem, but I also can imagine that none of the people who worked on that movie want to speak ill of the dead, especially since Piller pretty much saved TNG and modern Trek as we know it. It’s a shame his one movie didn’t pan out well.

Tiger2

The crazy thing is the original idea Piller pitched just sounded WAY more interesting and a more fun adventure. It just got watered down because there were so many cooks in the kitchen. The funny thing is thats what happened with Generations. Both Moore and Braga were given all these crazy demands on what they could and can’t do. But then when FC came along they were basically given the freedom to do what they wanted and it turned out fantastic. The issue with Insurrection was after FC became a big hit, it gave not only the actors like Stewart and Spiner more influence in the direction of their characters but Paramount smelled the money and wanted a film that would be as wide open as possible for all people, fans and non fans alike. They felt Piller’s version was too, ‘Trek-y’, so he watered it down to the point it still felt like Star Trek but very bland Star Trek.

That’s always been the problem with the films in general, they want to appeal to the hardcore but then try desperately to make it easy for first time fans to understand it. Sometimes it REALLY works when you have something like TWOK, FC, and the 2009 movie other times it just goes the opposite way and please neither like Generations, Insurrection and STID (although with that one I still think that was a bigger hit for newer fans at least).

That’s why the shows are just better, they can be as Star Trek as they want because it’s not the same pressure to get new fans involved.

ML31

It would seem to be rare indeed when box office results matched how good a Trek movie is. I looked at the numbers and I think they are a bit skewed for inflation. But, the KU films all made the most money easily. The highest BO came from STID. Which a lot of fans *ahem* did not care for. Even the supposed “bomb” of Beyond made 151 million. (box office minus listed production costs) That was a film that most fans seemed be OK with but was considered somewhat of a failure. Probably because expectations were higher. Then you get TVH which is was considered high BO with 109 mil. Yet that was almost certainly the most NOT Star Trek film of them all. It resonated with non fans possibly because it wasn’t very Trek-like at all. TMP made 104 mil but it had the advantage of being the first and there was great excitement surrounding it. I strongly suspect if it came later it would have been the biggest bomb in Trek. Instead that seems to belong to Nemesis. Making a mere 7 million. And that was actually quite good and felt VERY much like Trek.

So I really think when it comes to feature films the studio is probably better off making the film to appeal to a very wide audience and less so to the fans. It is VERY VERY hard to do both. The film that did this the best I think was First Contact. Broke the $100 million mark and for the most part fans were happy with it. TMP did that but it got a more mixed reaction from fans. And again, I think the wide audience went because it was the first Trek film and Sci-fi was pretty big then thanks to Lucas.

Corinthian7

This might be slightly controversial but I’d like to hear him do a Q and A on Nemesis!

Jay

Well, yes and no. You are absolutely right, Insurrection was not a favorite, I think that movie they were trying hard with new things, luring to a new audience. But First Contact guys, was a total success. Also his TV episodes, his latest work have to admit they are all excellent!

Jim Lancaster

I’ve always had a soft spot for Insurrection! It’s my wife’s all-time favorite Star Trek movie. I’ve never understood why people dislike it so much. It’s a fun romp between the darker and heavier movies on either side of it.

Tiger2

Insurrection is one of the movies I liked it the more I watched. I never hated it all, it just always felt a bit bland more than anything. That’s how I felt about Beyond as well (and I thought that was the best of the Kelvin movies actually but like Insurrection it just felt smaller in its approach and no real hook to excite fans).

I love Insurrection, too. In fact, I think I’ll watch it tonight.

Datamat

Insurrection is the most fun of the TNG films.
FC is still without question the high point but weirdly maybe I’ve seen in too many times over the years, but it has aged noticeably somehow compared with how slick and cool it felt 15 odd years ago. It feels like a very above average B movie tbh and that’s what I love about it!
I enjoy all TNG movies probably ore than the average trek fan, because I was a kid growing up when they were the current Trek film series. The 90s trek movies are probably all my favourites, TUC, GEN, FC, INS. Have a soft spot for TFF too.

Okay, most everything. Oh, wait, Thunderbirds….

ML31

I think he thinks Thunderbirds was one of the reasons why he stopped getting feature film work. That and Insurrection.

There’s absolutely, positively, nothing wrong with sticking with your strengths.

Danpaine

Absolutely right, Phil. Sometimes the wisest people are those who stay in their own lane.

Markus

As far as I remember it was Paramount’s fault. They wanted to have many changes to make the story less dark and more comedic.

odradek

I can’t count how many times I watched Frake’s “Thunderbirds”. Maybe because you can’t count zero.

Faze Ninja

I’m with you there Jay. Jonathan Frakes is a saint.

Dr Beckett

Now that I’m working alot more from home I often times put on a film or two to play in the background – always movies that I’d seen before so that my full attention isn’t on it.

I put on Insurrection a couple days ago after not having seen it in a few years. I’ve always liked Insurrection and this time around had my full attention on it. Still very enjoyable with lots to love about this one!

Had a British Tar stuck in my head for the rest of that day…

Levi

Nemesis is 18 years before picard, where did you get 12 years from?

Where does it say 12 years?

kmart

Somebody went in and edited the story, I noticed the years being all wrong too.

dennycranium

Like Nimoy, he’s grown his career due to Star Trek. I’ve met him briefly at some conventions. He’s a big gregarious guy.

Hat Rick

Best of luck to a most talented professional. It’s heartening to know that Mr. Frakes is at the helm and may the wind be at his back.

Tiger2

In Frakes we trust! :)

Love this guy to death. And sure I would’ve peed in my pants if he showed up on the Titan or Enterprise lol, but it was never a big deal that he didn’t. I think that was ‘subverting expectations’ in a nice way. As fans of course we like seeing stuff like that but its not why we watch these shows either. We watch because we simply love and care about the characters themselves and just want them represented the right way which I thought they did great with both Riker and Deanna, so I’m happy. And it was just cool he showed up to help out old baldy in the end. ;)

And of course they will probably be back next season too since the finale of Picard didn’t end up with him jumping to the 42nd century or traveling to the Kelvin universe. And they also know the episodes that excited fans the most were the ones with the returning characters like Riker, Hugh and Seven (who I’m guessing is a permanent cast member now); so it only makes sense to bring even more characters from the other shows from next season. We clearly will get more from TNG and most likely one or two more from Voyager but I really hope we get at least ONE DS9 character. Don’t care who although would love if Bashir, Dax, Garek or even if Kira somehow showed up. Sisko would be the biggest get but we all know the chances of that happening are about the same as seeing Kirk show up again lol.

Anyway while Picard ended up being a mixed bag for me in its first season I still thought it was a decent show overall and definitely was better than Discovery bar none. And yes part of that was just seeing characters like Riker again so can’t wait to hear where its going next!

Faze Ninja

Data is my favorite Picard character but Jonathan Frakes is a class act. Picard set a high standard and optimistic about the future.

WTF

One of the best things about Picard was how they handled the old characters. I know there are folks all upset about Icheb or that Seven became Sarah Connor, but Frakes is right, times change. Riker and Troi in particular, and what they’ve had to deal with after losing their son.

The two part finale was a huge letdown that set the show back a vast distance, but there was enough watchable stuff in the first eight episodes. Very much on the fence about the future of Picard, and season 2 had better start off very strong if the show is to be saved.

Well, lets face it, some of those folks are upset because the catsuit wasn’t in play.

We’ll have to look back at the end of season two to decide, but if Picard had been a single season ‘one off’, it would have been fine. Knowing there’s a season two, we are still at Picard being a very old carbon copy civilian, a supporting cast with…issues, and apparently a Federation and Starfleet that has had it’s identity severely eroded by Romulan carpetbaggers. So, just what does Picard do in season two that he didn’t do in season one? If JL isn’t back home growing grapes, and he hasn’t been reinstated, is him and his crew just a 25th century version of The A Team??

Jay

Picard was reinstated and he passed away. I wonder if Picard #2 will still be an Admiral.

Faze Ninja

Jay Picard is an Android now he’s not technically dead.

kmart

Wonder if Whoopi will get to reuse that line, ‘you’re a droid and I’m annoyed,’ with Picard next year. (I can’t believe I remember a line from OUTRAGEOUS OKUNA, one of about a dozen TNG eps I’ve never even been able to watch once from beginning to end. All of the others are in seasons 2 and 7, except for the Worf paralyzed one and a Worf’s kid episode.)

ML31

Troi shouldn’t be able to read him, either.

T'Pol's Beard

Troi should absolutely be able to read him. She can sense Data and Lore’s emotions.

kmart

That’s verging on the silly territory in THE BLACK HOLE where Yvette Mimeaux has telepathy with the button-eyed tin can passing himself off as Roddy McDowall (or is that the other way round?) You don’t want to get too close to that, or you’ll have lines like ‘searching for habitable life’ creep in like they’re a bunch of ticks or remora instead of scientists in space on a mission.

ML31

If she can read him it would be inconsistent. She couldn’t read Cyborg girl. She outright said so. New Picard is of the same ilk. If she couldn’t read Cyborg girl then she should not be able to read Cyborg Picard.

I also do not recall her reading Data or Lore. But then, she might have but it doesn’t make any sense that she could. But to be fair, it doesn’t make sense that Spock could perform a mind meld with Nomad so…

T'Pol's Beard

She said very specifically in ‘Descent’ that she could read Data’s emotions (“Data, I can sense feelings in you”). The inconsistency was that she couldn’t read android girl, but that can easily be explained away, that the models they created for Soong 2.0’s were different, and the golem has a similar emotional programming to Data.

Not that it matters, of course. I do think there’s some interesting story potential in Troi not being able to read him, as it would change the nature of their relationship (Picard always hated that she could sense his feelings, and even pointed it out in ‘Family’).

At this point though, I am looking for ways to explain away inconsistencies so I can enjoy the show more than I already, while others seem to simply want to find inconsistencies to prove how bad the show is.

To each their own.

ML31

I haven’t seen Descent since I saw it the first time decades ago. I’m part way through season 4 on my first rewatch. But… I do not know how Troi could have sensed emotions in Data since he wasn’t programmed with any.

But inconsistencies aside… The fact that it makes no sense that Spock could read Nomad doesn’t make The Changeling a bad episode. I still think it pretty good regardless.

T'Pol's Beard

That was the episode where Lore was “feeding” Data emotions from his emotion chip. So it’s pretty clear that– even if she couldn’t sense Lore– the chip Soong designed for Data (different than Lore’s) was capable of generating emotions that Troi could sense.

Does it make sense? No more or less so than a lot of other stuff in Trek.

ML31

I have always questioned how genuine Data’s “emotions” were to begin with. They were all artificial. Not even true emotions to begin with. Just a program designed to emulate the appearance of certain emotions when presented with certain circumstances. So really there were no emotions for Troi to read to begin with. Regardless, I probably ought not say much more until I finally see the episode again. Because I literally remember nothing from that episode. I tend to only remember the really good ones and the really bad ones.

T'Pol's Beard

At that point though, how authentic is anything? Just as Picard said in “Measure of a Man,” we are all machines, just machines of a different type.

ML31

The “we are all machines” thing is true only in the most loosely defined sense possible. One is a naturally occurring thing the other is created directly and intentionally by the naturally occurring life. There is an obvious difference between the two. One that is so very apparent that the comment ought to be considered irrelevant.

Faze Ninja

I feel the same way but Jonathan Frakes was the best thing about the show. Star Trek is lucky to have him around.

ML31

I think a lot of people get upset when characters they loved come back decades later and are presented as different people. (*cough* Luke Skywalker *cough*) Which is understandable. They don’t want them to change. They want them to be the same character they liked decades ago. But the reality is that people DO change over time. I’m a bit guilty of that too but in the end, I realize that everything changes over time. It’s an uncomfortable concept but true.

T'Pol's Beard

I for one did not mind Luke’s change in character. It *has* been 30+ years. People change. I know I am not the same person I was even 10 years ago, thanks to a variety of life experiences over that time. I think it’s both illogical and boring if 30 years pass, and everyone is exactly the same. Perhaps if everyone was just treading water the past 15 years, that would be believable. But I liked that some of them went through trauma and were changed by it, as most of us do. Even just getting older can change who you are.

ML31

You and I are on the same page there. Sure, we want to see the characters we love but the fact is people do change. I know I am not the same person I was 20 years ago. Nor is Mrs. ML31. Seeing the change in Luke was a bit jarring but I eventually understood it and actually embraced the idea.

T'Pol's Beard

I had many problems with that film, but the character of Luke was not one of them. I think him becoming disillusioned was perfectly valid, and indeed compelling.

ML31

But… It seems among the SW fandom the fact that Luke became disillusioned was something the bulk simply could not accept. As I said, I found it jarring but soon found it understandable. If he is the same guy then what is really the point of the character?

Faze Ninja

Jonathan Frakes is a class act. He was the highlight of Picard. I’m happy he’s not on a starship anymore. Nice to see him command one. The old characters were handled really well in Picard.

Data and his journey was my favorite. Data wants to die and Picard was there to say one final goodbye. Riker and Troi was a lovely surprise. Soji is amazing.

I’m on the fence on Picard but season 2 needs to live up to the ideals of Star Trek to make it worthwhile.

Lukas

You know, having just recently watched Times Arrow again and seeing how hard they fought to keep Data alive and restore him makes me wonder why Picard suddenly changes direction post Nemesis in relation to Data and lets him go.

Lukas, the key thing is that Data is a person, with the ability and right to make his own choices. “They” did want him to live, and by preserving the consciousness downloaded into B4, Soong and Maddox were fighting to keep Data alive.

After two decades in the isolated half-life of a simulation, Data was at last able to truly communicate with Picard, and through Picard effect his own choice to end his life.

To the viewer and Picard, Data’s choice appears sudden. For an AI like Data with hypertext processing speed, 20 years in a low resolution simulation would be living purgatory if not worse.

ML31

But Data really wasn’t in Picard. He was in JL’s dreams because he was having trouble reconciling with Data’s sacrifice. He needed closure. And his subconsciousness provided him with that. But Data’s journey ended when he was blown to atoms saving Picard and the E-E from Shinzon.

T'Pol's Beard

Michael Chabon has clearly stated that yes, that was actually Data (outside of the opening of the first episode), as much as it was a copy of his programming and consciousness. Please stop with this idea that it was just in Picard’s head. The writers say otherwise.

If you want to keep it the way that makes you happy in your head canon, fine, but I don’t think the fanbase really wants to discuss your personal version of the show.

ML31

I did read that it was their intention Picard was for real dealing with the B4 download. But regardless of their intent that is not what played out on the screen. What it very much looked like was it was Picard who was gaining closure over Data’s sacrifice 20 years ago via a commonly used visual device that shows up in visual storytelling. It was pretty obvious Data was never really there. Therefore, because their intent is NOT what we saw on screen at all it is completely reasonable to conclude they severely missed the mark they were trying to hit.

You do not get to tell me that what I saw is not what I saw. Please cease from your gatekeeping.

DIGINON

You’re interpreting what you saw on screen. Given Chabon’s comments he intended a different interpretation. Your interpretation isn’t less valid than Chabon’s but it’s also not anymore valid than his.
Nobody is telling you that what you saw is not what you saw. But apparently you interpreted art differently than the artist. It happens all the time.

ML31

On the other hand… If an establishing shot shows me the Golden Gate Bridge, the TransAmerica Pyramid and the sounds of cable car bells I don’t care if the writers say it’s New York City. That is not what we are seeing on screen. If they do that then mistakes were clearly made in the production.

T'Pol's Beard

I’m sorry, you’re incorrect. If the writers show Egypt and say it’s New York– than for their story, it’s New York.

Besides, what is on screen jibes perfectly with what the writers have said. You continuing to insist it isn’t doesn’t change that.

ML31

No, it is you who are incorrect. You are saying a writer could use the word “road” and then after the fact say that when he says “road” he really means “river”. Sorry but that explanation doesn’t fly. Words mean things just as what we see on screen mean things. You don’t get to show something as one way and then after the fact claim you really meant something else. This is not a matter of interpreting something wrongly. This is the production not showing what the writer intended at all. This, in my view, is a huge production error. Not a misinterpretation.

T'Pol's Beard

Unfortunately, his interpretation IS invalid. That was not meant to be “interpreted” in any way other than what was shown on screen. Data was not a dream or an illusion.

ML31

Data as presented in that final episode was quite obviously something that went down in Picard’s subconscious. There is not other reasonable explanation for it. All the evidence points to this. This is not a misinterpretation. This is what was presented on screen. It did NOT match what Chabon claimed the scene was originally intended to be. Obviously there were mistakes made between what he intended to what was shot and edited. The weird part is that without the Chabon reveal the scene actually works decently. Not great, but it still works and makes a bit of sense. When Chabon said what he was intending there suddenly it became clear there were some pretty big mistakes made.

Danpaine

There was no Titan. There were no ships of distinction at all. There were about 200 identical generic USS Whatever’s. Zero grade for originality, Showrunners. Keep up the good work. Anyway, it was great to see the Riker family at home. Nepenthe, best episode of the season, imo.

Tiger2

Exactly! And why it sucked.

Nepenthe was great though!

T'Pol's Beard

I don’t get this gripe. I get people not liking the story, or the characters, or the emphasis on action over science, of melodrama over human drama, but I certainly don’t watch Star Trek because of the ships. It could have been 200 copy paste, I don’t care. After all, there was only ever 1 Federation starship design in TOS, they even reused the BOP for Romulans AND Klingons, I don’t know why fans can’t accept this stuff here.

Tiger2

Because its the first time any film or show ever done it, especially when we have seen so many different ships before. It just felt so lazy. In TOS it was done because it was a much cheaper show and maybe at the time you could’ve argued all the ships were built the same. But that had changed with the movies and all the other spin off shows.

And if you don’t care, that’s fine. Some of us DO however. It doesn’t mean I thought the show sucked over it, but it was disappointing.

Denny C

And if they’re listening to the fans they’ll rectify or at least explain why the presence of only one class of ship. A part of me wondered if Riker actually arrived with a fleet of 200 ships or if it was just the one ship, another high tech illusion.

DIGINON

There is more than one class of ships. They just look quite similar but if you look more closely you can see different shapes of warp nacelles.

Denny C

In the original series and through the first six films, the Enterprise was as much a character as Kirk and the rest of his crew. When the Enterprise was sacrificed in Star Trek III it’s loss was felt as much as Spock’s in Star Trek II. When the Enterprise A was revealed in Star Trek IV the audience I saw it with cheered.

So, after waiting nearly two decades for our first glimpse of what a fleet of Federation ships might look like, with an expectation of classic TNG television and movie era ships mixed with new late 24th century designs, what was revealed was a bit of a disappointment.

It may ultimately be revealed in time but with a quick redress of the Discovery set and a fleet consisting of only one ship design I’m starting to think that the ending we saw was not what was originally scripted. It all looked and felt a bit rushed (and Riker’s dialogue was a bit off).

So, yeah, I’m of the mindset that episode 10 didn’t quite stick the landing.

kmart

Trek design is only sometimes iconic, but the stuff that is, is really good most of the time. The look of a starship — the thing Kirk (and most of us) love best — is very important to a lot of viewers.

And when you see something happening with starships (plural) that is supposed to be epic, it shouldn’t look like a bunch of photo cutouts, it should bring it (like DS9 did.)

Seeing four of the same ships in one shot in THE ULTIMATE COMPUTER — even though they were obviously the same shot of the same model repeated — looked more exciting than this wide shot of a fleet, because it utilized a well shot element from a good perspective (which is true of most TOS shots, whether they are wrecked by matte lines or not.) So I’d say PICARD slipped back BEHIND the 60s with this one.

PICARD looked like it was trying to echo a moment seen in SERENITY, but wimped out in a big way. Not just in having no battle, but in the ship elements themselves, and in the animation of the ships. If you look at the original STAR WARS, you can see character in the ship animation. Go back to what Denis Muren, who shot a lot of that stuff and has more Oscars than anybody this side of Edith Head, said, about how if he had 3 x-wings, he’d alter the programmed track of the camera so one of them would seem to be flying a bit off from the other two, so you’d get an idea that there was a different mind in that cockpit.

Even when animators do flocks of birds, there’s randomness programmed in to generate something unique and of visual interest that registers as more than just cookie-cutter sameness. PICARD’s work often seems like somebody had an approved pre-viz and just repeated it at higher rez, without any soul or thought going into improving on it. And with the dollars spent on this, that seems a sin to me.

Denny C

That pretty much nails it. What you describe is why the effects work in DS9, Battlestar Galactica and Voyager were so effective. A lot of Discovery and Picard looks great but the visuals still don’t feel organic TO Star Trek and the history that preceded it.

Tiger2

Agreed as well. It’s weird the older Trek shows with a lower budget and less advance FX feels so much more authentic than what we seen in DIS and PIC. They aren’t ‘bad’ (I love the space stuff a lot more in season 2 of DIS) but they don’t feel as authentic as the other shows.

David Alexander Harrison

Maybe the Titan will show up under the command of Captain Crusher (Wesley, not Beverly), just to troll the living hell out of the audience…

DIGINON

He’s old enough to be a captain by now.

tom riker

i’ve started re-watching picard… anyone else like it more the second time around? i liked it a lot the first time but round 2 is even better… i notice more stuff and clues plus i think i’m more relaxed watching it since i know where it’s going. just watched his stardust city rag episode… i know some were thrown off by the gory beginning but man this was such a great episode… exciting, funny, paced beautifully… he’s so good.