Yesterday Star Trek: Voyager stars Robert Duncan McNeill and Garrett Wang participated in a virtual panel where they discussed their upcoming podcast, memories of their years on Voyager, and more. We have gathered some highlights, including the pair proposing bringing back characters they played on Voyager, but not Tom Paris and Harry Kim.
Captain Proton to the rescue!
In response to a fan question on if the actors felt there was more story to tell for their Voyager characters Robbie said he did believe that Star Trek allows for characters to evolve and grow and it would be “interesting to see” and “really fun.” Garrett Wang agreed he would “love to see a continuation of Kim.”
Wang then brought up how at a recent convention McNeill floated the idea of a Captain Proton web series, based on the campy sci-fi adventures Tom Paris and Harry Kim would play out in the U.S.S. Voyager holodeck. Robbie enthusiastically picked up on the idea, saying:
McNeill: I loved the Captain Proton holodeck stories. I thought there should have been a lot more of that, partially because I liked the character I got to play. That could have been an amazing thing to explore the story within the story. And it was such a great echo where we could make fun of ourselves; we could reference old Star Trek plotlines. We could have done so many things in the Captain Proton holodeck story. So yeah, I think there is a great opportunity to go revisit that.
McNeill, who has transitioned to producing and directing for television, revealed this isn’t just wishful thinking. He has actually put some thought into a Captain Proton show.
McNeill: I have talked seriously about that with David Goodman, who worked on Enterprise as a writer but is also on The Orville, where I got to direct a couple of episodes. I talked to Goodman about maybe writing that serial. I don’t know if it would be a CBS All Access thing or something that we could do that would be fun and silly and we can get our cast back together, which would be a blast.
Garrett Wang was also eager about pursuing the idea and suggested that they may just want to do it on their own:
Wang: Even if we went the crowd-funding route, similar to Alan Tudyk who you have been working with on Con Man. I think they received their funding within two days. It just flowed in. Millions of dollars. I do feel we would get the same reaction if we were to crowd-fund.
The Captain Proton show-within-a-show was introduced in the fifth season Star Trek: Voyager episode “Night.” The black-and-white holodeck adventures stylized like classic Flash Gordon serials had McNeill’s Tom Paris playing the role of Captain Proton with Wang’s Harry Kim playing his sidekick Buster Kincaid. Captain Proton segments appeared in a total of nine episodes of Voyager, including “Bride of Chaotica!” where it became part of the main story and other members of the cast participated including Kate Mulgrew’s Captain Janeway playing Queen Arachnia, and Robert Picardo’s Doctor playing the President of Earth.
CBS All Access has been developing a number of Star Trek series spanning different tones and sub-genres, so a Captain Proton show isn’t totally out of the question. The Star Trek: Short Treks series could also be a possibility as it has experimented with a number of different formats including comedy and animation.
From Voyager’s “Bride of Chaotica!”
Don’t expect to show up on Picard
The first season of Star Trek: Picard featured a recurring role for Voyager star Jeri Ryan and there is a possibility that Robert Picardo might show up in season two. However, when McNeill and Wang were asked if they expected to reprise their roles on Picard, neither seemed to feel it was going to happen. The pair did talk a bit about their Voyager co-stars on Picard:
Wang: Unless we were to try to lobby ourselves on our behalf, I would doubt it. If I pushed hard. I always say the ultimate networker is Robert Picardo because he is on everything. He is supposed to be on Picard, he is on Orville twice, he has done so many things. That is due to his diligence of constantly talking to people and whispering in their ear. I have never been the guy to network with so much intensity. If I chanelled my inner Bob Picardo, maybe I will be on Picard.
McNeill: I love that Jeri is on the show, I am really happy for her. As Seven and as an actress she has got this opportunity to swing at it in a whole new way. I think it is cool. It is awesome.
Responding to a later follow up question, both actors did have some thoughts on where their characters were during the events of Picard.
McNeill: [Paris] is a spy. He is undercover. He is some kind of spy. He is pretending to be a bad guy, but that is his cover.
Wang: Ensign Kim quit Starfleet because he never gets promoted, yet out of anger he rents the retail space right next to Starfleet Headquarters and opens Admiral Kim’s Bar and Grill where only ensigns and lower in rank get discounts.
McNeill and Wang during their Saturday virtual panel
Berman shot down Wang’s Voyager movie pitch
When asked if there was ever any talk about a Voyager feature film both actors said they never heard any. However, Wang did reveal that he pitched a Voyager movie idea to the executive producer in charge of Star Trek, Rick Berman:
Wang: When I read the finale script for Voyager, the two-parter “Endgame,” the first hour I thought was brilliant. It was well-written. The tone was right. And the second hour tied everything up way too quickly. We end the show in orbit of Earth. We don’t even set foot on Earth. It was kind of a let down.
I actually went to the production offices and talked to Berman and said, “This is my idea. Film the first hour and put it on TV as the final episode and at the end say ‘To be continued in a theater near you.'” And then spend your time to film a 2 1/2 hour movie getting back home and have us land on Earth, have a parade, and deal with all the relationships. And then, just like Gilligan’s Island, we get lost again at the end of that movie and go back into space, so we could have had a whole slate of films.
And it would have been perfect as it would have replaced the god-awful [Star Trek: Nemesis] that was filming right when we were ending our show. The last two TNG movies were god-awful. I really felt a Voyager film would have been amazing and the right move to do, but Berman looks at me like, “What do you know, you are the kid on the show.”
Garrett Wang playing a future Harry Kim with Kate Mulgrew’s Admiral Janeway in “Endgame”
Next Creation virtual panel: Chase Masterson
The Voyager chat was Creation Entertainment’s first virtual panel with Star Trek celebrities, but they have already lined up another. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine’s Chase Masterson will have a virtual panel on Saturday, May 9th at 10:00 AM PT. The live event will again use StageIt, with tickets priced as “pay what you can.”
Chase will also be doing a limited meet and greet on May 14th, with 10 slots being auctioned off. Wang and McNeill’s limited meet and greet will be on Wednesday, May 7th. You can bid on either virtual event at auctions.creation.com.
Chase Masterson is next Star Trek celebrity lined up for a Creation Virtual Fan Experience panel
Keep up with all the Star Trek event news at TrekMovie.com.
Captain Proton was made for Short Treks. It could be done on the cheap, just using anything sitting in prop houses in the LA area.
There aren’t any Trek movies on the horizon, so that’s kind of a pointless conversation at this point….
Oh man a Captain Proton Short Trek is a GREAT idea. In general I love the idea of Short Treks being testing grounds for random ideas that aren’t strong enough to go beyond a single episode.
I’m all in for a Captain Proton Short Trek as well.
But I would really like it to be more like 15 minutes at least.
I found the ever-shorter live-action Short Treks of the second season a disappointing. Calypso, The Escape Artist and The Brightest Star from S1 benefited from a bit more room to breath. My sense is that the run time (excluding) titles for a live action short needs to be at least 12 minutes.
Yep. A short Trek feels exactly like the right place for Captain Proton. I got a small kick out of it when they did it but I think they returned to it perhaps one or two too many times. It started to wear out its welcome for me. But I wouldn’t mind seeing it as a shorty…
Yeah a Captain Proton show would be great for Short Treks. It could work there perfectly.
As far as a movie, they were clearly talking about when Voyager was still in production and I heard Wang talk about that idea before which I don’t think would’ve been a good idea at all. It would’ve felt like a cheat to watch the show on TV all those years and then forced to watch the finale in theaters. It’s not the same like the TOS and TNG movies which were just separate adventures from the shows. Although he’s not wrong about Nemesis and End Game could’ve been MUCH better.
Well, he was wrong about Nemesis. But from my point of view Endgame was in DIRE need of an epilogue. If they only could have convinced UPN to tag on an extra half hour that night so they could do just that. Yes, I realize that would have been a herculean task.
And I agree… Making the public have to go to a feature film to get the final act would have been a BAD move.
“Endgame” still confuses the hell out of me because there was no build-up to (or explanation of) Voyager flying out of that Borg ship and absolutely no emotional resolution save Tom and B’Elanna having their baby. Such an anti-climax. At least as far as I’m concerned.
The overwhelming majority think he’s right about Nemesis. Dude everyone knows you liked it, but box office, audience and critical reviews made it clear. When even the cast who made thought it sucked it must have really sucked.
Well, there are other reasons for the box office. Critical reviews tended to be above average but not great. It seems to be hated more by those who prefer TNG to TOS than the other way around from what I have seen. And I promise you that if the film made a bunch of money the cast would be praising it. Their comments really need to be taken with a grain of salt as there are other reasons for them to be bitter about it that have nothing to do with the quality of the film. Stewart and Spiner had the power to change things up and seemed to be happy with the film throughout production.
The critical reviews for NEMESIS were horrific.
Of the ones I saw… There were a couple of 1 of 5’s. But the others in the 3 category. But I only saw about 6 or 7 of them.
You need to see more then…much more. ;)
The consensus is that Nemesis is a bad bad film. Yes it doesn’t mean everyone feel that way like yourself but you are clearly in the minority. I mean look at this very board, I don’t think you can find five people who thought it was good lol. Maybe not the most hated or anything (I know for many that will always be TFF) but you’re the only one here that I know defends the movie as much as you do. That’s fine, but your opinion is not the consensus on it, far from it.
The only reason I even bring it up is when someone arbitrarily claims it was a terrible film. As if it is an absolute. A given. It absolutely is not and in those instances I feel compelled to correct it. And I do think that 6 or 7 reviews at random are a fair sample…
BTW… I myself consider TFF among the bottom feeders of the Trek movies as well but I still can come up with a few things that I thought good in that film.
C’mon, that’s just people giving their opinion. You say TVH is a terrible film and you also treat it as an absolute, even knowing that is not the consensus, so I don’t understand the difference?
It’s completely fine to like whatever you like or hate obviously. All that is being said in this instance is that more fans hated something than they loved, but you seem to be arguing that’s not true. Well fine, based on what? Every thing I seen easily suggests more people dislike it than like it. But yes end of the day its all subjective. Just because most people think something is bad doesn’t necessarily mean it is so but then you can say that about every single thing in life. And I guess that’s why we have message boards, to constantly argue about it. ;)
Well… Generally subtext has much to do with it. If I sense a certain subtext, I will interject. If not, I will let it slide. Context plays a part as well. And yes, a message board is the perfect place for this sort of thing. :)
OK, fair enough!
I think NEMESIS box-office take was really hurt by franchise fatigue (VOY, ENT, and then a movie at the same time, without any fresh blood to give us a new take on the Trek universe) — and, more importantly, the utter disaster that was INSURRECTION. If INSURRECTION had been as good as First Contact, the sequel to insurrection would have gotten better buzz.
From a critical standpoint, NEMESIS is underrated, and I think the fact that PICARD drew on it for source material — and drew on it in a way that really worked — shows that.
River Temarc, I agree. Nemesis came at the time Enterprise was on and after 15 years of what seemed like wall to wall Trek, especially the later years, I really do think franchise fatigue did set in. Not in the production side. But in the general public side. Overall it feels like people were getting a little Trekked out. Even the promotional tours for the film carried with it a “I’m tired of Trek” vibe. And yes, Nemsis suffered a bit from what Beyond suffered from. A low quality lead in.
I think you’re just being contanarion because I remember you said you loathed all good things… in a post.
Dvorak, not so. I say what I honestly think. But you are wrong. I didn’t “loathe” All Good Things. I just felt it was a medicore episode. There were a lot of TNG episodes that were light years better than AGT. It was a bad as series finale but that was mainly because while it was the end of the series it wasn’t then end of the show. They started shooting Generations the very next week. As endings go, Nemesis ran circles around AGT. It very much felt like a finale. It wrapped things up and even left the door open a crack if they wanted to return. All in all, well done.
IMO the story they told in Endgame didn’t need to be proportioned the way it was, and didn’t need to be entirely standalone. They could have handled it the same way DS9 did its finale, with time to play at developing the characters after getting home. Hell, even the Chakotay/Seven relationship is basically completely introduced in Endgame when it didn’t have to be (Human Error barely counts as setting it up). Stories like Natural Law, Friendship One, Prophecy and Repentance were hardly stories that just had to be told in the final season, they were typical filler.
Also, I think even the idea of lobbying UPN to break into local affiliate time at 10 PM would have been a non-starter.
Ian, I did say it would have been quite the feat to eat into the 10pm local affiliate time.
You did. But the implication I ot from that was that making that happen would have improved Endgame, as if a longer runtime was the only thing stopping it from achieving its potential. The producers didn’t make the best use of what they actually could control IMO, i.e. the actual focus of the 26 episodes they had mapped out. The fact that Seven of Nine and Chakotay headline an entire episode in Natural Law and that time is not used to even hint that they’re about to hook up in Endgame a month later is never going to sit right with me.
Nemesis Has my least favorite Star Trek Cinematic Memory, The telepathicrape of Deanna Troi. THE MOST UNNECESSARY SCENE IN STAR TREK HISTORY.
Perhaps. But conversely it did have one of the VERY few times Troi actually became of some use when she used her empathic abilities to find Shinzon while cloaked.
To no avail. Because of Troi, they scored a few hits that made no apparent difference to the situation or the eventual outcome.
I’ll have to view the scene again but if I recall the result of those hits was they lost their cloak.
Again, no difference. They took a bunch of hits that made no difference to their vulnerability, and broke the Enterprise windshield right afterward. Now if Enterprise had been destroyed, but then Scimitar was later blown up by Starfleet only because they could see the ship, then I’d say Troi made a huge difference. But her difference didn’t seem to make any difference when it came to final result: Enterprise 1 Minus Data equals 0 Scimitar.
One could argue that losing the cloak meant Shinzon changed how they would attack. Which ultimately gave them that much more time. Time that ultimately led to the opportunity to go destroy the thaleron weapon.
Or alternatively… Your argument is that Troi was indeed a 100% worthless character because even when she was useful she wasn’t.
Wasn’t where I intended to go re: worthless character, but yeah, same result.
I think the way they messed up using her on the series is what made Whoopi such a good addition. Also the reason that I actually wrote something in one of my specs where Picard goes to cry on Guinan’s shoulder and she blows him off by pointing out bartenders tell you what you want to hear, not what you need to hear, and forces him to go to Troi to get over his big bad issue.
I never felt her a worth while regular character. She really should have been on Crusher’s staff and only brought in when they needed psychiatric help. She should have been like O’Brian. Only shows up when the show needed them to.
I’m sympathetic to Endgame, because while I agree it ended super quickly and didn’t feel like anything resolved, I feel like ending it differently, maybe having a 3rd part “epilogue” episode would be really anticlimactic? Like would it just be showing everyone on Earth doing whatever? That would have been a weird finale.
I’m not sure there was a “right” way to wrap it up, because a finale (like the TNG finale or the DS9 finale) should have some oomph to it. And while DS9 did take its time at the end to wrap up where everyone was headed, I dunno if Voyager would have been able to make that work because the lift was a lot heavier there.
So I agree, yes, Endgame could have used a little less sudden of an ending, I’m not sure there was a “correct” way to thread that needle.
You know, now that I think about it maybe it was the right place to end it. Leave it open ended. At the time I felt like I was ripped off a bit. And I still kinda do. I still wish there was some sort of epilogue or something regarding the immediate future of our crew. But when I sit and think about it, how necessary was it REALLY?
In my (minority) opinion, it should have ended without them getting home at all.
They nobly sacrifice their personal desire to get home to save the galaxy or whatever. Then there’s an appreciation for the fact that Voyager has become their home.
“As far as a movie, they were clearly talking about when Voyager was still in production and I heard Wang talk about that idea before which I don’t think would’ve been a good idea at all. It would’ve felt like a cheat to watch the show on TV all those years and then forced to watch the finale in theaters.”
It would have been an utter disaster — like the Allegiant series. And that’s particularly true if the movie brought them back to Earth and then concluded with the crew stranded again in the Delta Quadrant. That would have been exactly what the Gilligan’s Island made-for-TV movies did. Cheesy moves like that may work for Gilligan’s Island; they don’t work for Star Trek. (Gilligan’s Island can portray a klutzy, incompetent skipper and first officer for laughs; Star Trek can’t.)
And even the Gilligan’s Island movies lost the nostalgia factor. The actress who played Ginger refused to come back for them.
A Captain Proton short Trek is relatively low risk, but I don’t see anyone really clamoring for Captain Proton material. How is this proposal going to make money for the studio?
I just don’t see Wang and McNeill as producer material. They’re not Nimoy or Frakes, much less Chabon or Manny Coto.
McNeil has experience as a producer and EP in addition to directing. So, he might do fine. Starting with a Short Trek might be the way to see how he gets on with the Secret Hideout management.
Wang seems to have realized that he doesn’t have the organizational awareness not only to successfully promote himself, but also that’s needed to manage. I find it unfortunate that, even at the distance of fandom, I’ve often found his public statements pretty tone deaf.
As a fan keen to see a more diverse/representative cast, I was really disappointed at how out of his depth in acting ability he seemed to be in his star/feature episodes in the first season of Voyager. He didn’t seem able to carry an episode as the lead (although the contract provided each cast member a couple of these episodes). In later seasons he had definitely improved, but we never heard any acknowledgement from Wang that he was working on his craft nor respect for actors who were much more experienced in television and film.
I agree with you.
This would be great for Short Treks! Minimal cast, cheap sets, short stories… If they wanted to make it relevant to their main shows, they could tie it in with Picard, maybe with Seven guesting or something.
Loved Voyager need it in HD
Some interesting amateur developments are being made with AI tech to try to clean up and enhance SD DS9 and Voyager. It might be a viable solution one day.
Let’s just say that Garrett Wang shouldn’t quit his day job.
Garret Wang was the show’s weak link, along with Jennifer Lien. A Harry Kim return would not be a good idea. He has all the onscreen charisma of a noodle.
Agreed
Yup
Disagreed about Lien, she was a stronger actor than Beltran or RDM (who is an excellent director, though). “Before and After” really showed off what she could do and it was a shame they let her go when her character had far more story potential than Kim and was already given a clean break from Neelix. Having a better balance of gender representation in the show would have been wonderful too. It would have been unfortunate to jettison an Asian character and have a bridge station filled by extras or recurring guests, but at the same time… Voyager was notoriously neglectful of recurring characters by season 3.
VOY had the weakest acting of any Trek series: Lien, Wang, and Beltran, sure, but I found Tim Russ and Dawson overrated, too. Mulgrew, Picardo, and Ryan were worthy successors to the TNG crew, but unlike TNG, they didn’t have strong suppporting actors.
I disagree. The supporting actors were just as good if not better than the TNG supporters. And the characters themselves were all more interesting. Let’s face it, all Burton did was sigh. Frakes himself speaks about (someone tongue in cheek, however) of how bad an actor he was. Sirtis was monumentally stiff the entire series. McFadden might have been decent but she was rarely given a chance to really show off the skills.
We all know where Harry is during Picard. He is still serving in Starfleet as an ensign.
I think they made a mistake having the ship reach the Alpha Quadrant again during the series. THAT’S what a movie should have been, and if they were still out there, you could still make that movie even today! And I’d love to see it.
Looking forward to the Delta Flyers podcast; that should be fun.
Ending a show that was all about getting back home without getting back home would be very anticlimactic.
If you do the homecoming as a movie what’s the appeal for a general audience? You would basically have to tell a shortened version of the whole show in a 2-hour movie because otherwise there’s no reason for the audience to be invested in the characters actually making it home.
It seems that fans want more closure for the crew after getting back, sort of an extended epilogue that shows how they settle back in. Again, this only works if you’ve been with the characters for a long time. Why should a general audience who’ve only met those people an hour ago care?
I’d argue that the series was never about getting back home, it was about keeping Federation ideals alive while trying to get back home. Ending it on a will-they-ever-get-back note would have infuriated some people, but would have excited others.
General audiences will go see movies based on things they’re not familiar with provided it looks good enough. Not saying that would automatically have happened — or would happen now in that scenario — with a “Voyager” movie, but neither would I rule it out. Plus, you would never be able to convince me that a good writer couldn’t figure out a way to write a version of that story which would appeal to Voyager fans without confusing general audiences.
So, you know, aim for that.
It’s not about confusing general audiences. If your story is about a satisfying conclusion to a 7-year journey chances are audiences who haven’t been along for any of that journey won’t find it very satisfying.
I’m not saying that it’s completely impossible. However, any possible Voyager movie would most likely have been written by one (or a group) of the Voyager writing staff. If they couldn’t come up with a satisfying final episode what makes you think they would have done a better job on the big screen where it gets even more complicated (because of the different audiences)?
Exactly! The issue is you are marketing a movie to people where they are out of the loop of seven seasons of story telling and the movie is not the BEGINNING of an adventure its the climax of one. For a new audience, I just don’t see that as a very interesting story to watch. Obviously for old fans but I think it would lose everyone else. And as I said in my OP I don’t know how much old fans would’ve liked the idea that they now have to pay to see the finale of something they been watching one way for seven years. I obviously get what Wang is saying, make it a big event, but that’s not really a way to do it IMO.
And of course this is not a ‘new’ idea in itself. I have heard this same idea pitched by fans for other shows from LOST to even Friends and make the last episode a theatrical movie. And obviously it never happens because even executives know no matter how popular you think your show is, its going to feel more like greed than a special event.
The only show I can think of that actually did something close to this was the first X Files movie. It basically wrapped up that shows first five seasons in a big movie, but then it still went on for another four seasons lol. It was successful to a degree but X files was HUGE at the time (bigger than what Star Trek was then) but non fans were utterly confused by it because I don’t care what anyone says you can’t just reference five season of story arcs in a 2 hour movie and expect most people to get it or care. A Voyager movie would’ve had the same issue.
A movie was never an option for Voyager. None of the other shows were as popular as TNG.
Bryant, I really don’t think it’s fair to keep bringing up Voyager’s comparatively lower first run ratings without qualifying the context.
Voyager was rushed into production in order to fulfill the role of flagship for the newly launching Paramount Network. This meant that many of the stations carrying TNG and DS9 in syndication did not carry Voyager, and regions where Paramount was late to roll out UPN didn’t see it.
Yes, to your point, Voyager didn’t have the audience base established to go to film, but it might have if it had been syndicated.
The fact that Voyager consistently outperforms the other 90s era Trek series and TOS on Netflix suggests that the platform was at least as much of the problem as the show itself.
Might want to check the replay on that, fella — not once have I mentioned the ratings. That’s what other people are arguing; my feeling is that the Trek audience would have gone to see a Voyager movie (or a DS9 movie) and that general audiences would have showed up too, if it looked good.
So don’t blame me!
;)
By the way, I was in one of those regions that didn’t have UPN for years, and it ate me alive for there to be a Trek series that I couldn’t watch. Didn’t catch up with Voyager for years as a result, not until it was well off the air. Loved it immediately, and still do.
Okay, appreciate the perspective Bryant.
But I’m still a bit confused in terms of what metric your using to judge Voyager as not as popular as TNG.
Certainly, it wasn’t in its own time, and it sounds like we agree that it never had the chance to be given the UPN platform. But at this point I’m not sure which show has had the most views globally.
I’m confused as to why you keep attributing arguments to me that I haven’t made.
Lol Bryant I’m kind of shocked you like Voyager after hearing your (less than kind) opinions on DIS and PIC. I just assumed you hated VOY too for some reason.
This is why you shouldn’t assume I guess. I love VOY too but I also like Picard and liked DIS more second season.
If it makes you feel any better, I do have some robust dislike for DS9. Good show, with occasional great episodes, but not really what I want in a Star Trek series. TOS, TAS, TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise, though? Love ’em.
I freely admit to loathing both Discovery and Picard, both of which are trash more often than not. In my opinion, of course.
See I thought you would LOVE DS9 lol! But it sounds like you respect the show its just not your thing. Understood. But you love much more Star Trek than you hate, so that’s pretty healthy.
And your mind can still change on DIS and PIC in the future. MAYBE, just saying. Not trying to influence you or anything, you have the right to keep seeing them as total trash of course. ;)
There is no Voyager movie simply because the series was not successful enough to warrant a movie. No one in their right mind would have financed it. End of story.
Voyager is not as popular like TNG so that’s also why it didn’t get a movie. End of story.
It got higher ratings than “Firefly” ever did and “Firefly” got a movie. See also “Veronica Mars”, “Entourage” and “Sex and the City”.
Voyager would still have needed at least a $50 million budget, and even if every one of the 8-9 million who watched Endgame showed up, that wouldn’t make the film especially profitable. Pulling a Murder, She Wrote or a Columbo though and coming back for TV movies here and there would have made sense IMO, but UPN was so could never build on the Star Trek audience and got increasingly schizophrenic in how it programmed the rest of its lineup right up to when it folded.
Serenity had a smaller budget than any Trek film after Generations. Veronica Mars was crowdfunded, Sex and the City had more viewers on HBO (let alone with syndication) than Voyager did on a broadcast network free to view in most of the US, and likely with lower production costs.
I can’t explain Entrourage, perhaps no one can.
Serenity( great movie) was unfortunately a box office disaster.
Just checked out Boxoffice Mojo. Serenity did 40.5M worldwide on a 39M budget so yeah that’s not good. Veronica Mars made 3.5M on a 6M budget so that’s even worse. Even Entourage probably didn’t recover its cost from boxoffice sales. The only one from that list that was successful commercially is Sex and the City.
The reality is direct shows to features usually fail more than they succeed. Think of all of those 90s SNL skits they turned into movies. Out of all of them, the only one that was really successful was Wayne’s World. Most outright bombed to the point they finally stopped trying.
Entourage was good IMO, but then it just felt like a two hour version of the show. There was really no need to put it in theaters and just run it on HBO which I’m guessing where most of the fans watched it. Certainly where I did.
Sex and the City bucked that trend however and was definitely successful. The sequel didn’t do as well but it still made money. I’m actually shocked they never tried for a third one, just with a smaller budget.
Yeah Serenity is a perfect example. But then it’s shocking it ever got a film in the first place considering the show was cancelled after just 15 episodes. This is one of those cases where people convinced themselves the show had a much bigger following even though the ratings made it clear it really didn’t. The film was low budget (and it was a good movie) but Firefly never had a cult following like Star Trek did. The people who watched it liked it, but still too small for its budget as both a show and a film.
24 hours after The DVD box set for Firefly was placed on preorder, It SOLD OUT! Thats why the movie got greenlit. FAN DEMAND! Who demanded a Voyager movie back in the day?
The problem with a Voyager movie is: Once the ship gets home the show’s unique selling point is gone. Then it’s just another ship in Starfleet doing what Starfleet ships do.
EXACTLY! Studios only want to spend their money on sure things.
Exactly that.
Rick Berman was right to just politely show him out of his office.
I’d have gone to see a Voyager movie.
The movie going public? Doubtful…
Paramount had gone through difficult negotiations with the TNG cast to get Nemesis made.
There was already talk of reimagining the franchise because the cast members of each show were pitching separate ideas to the producers.
Supporting actors are just that…supporting actors.
I think it’s unfair to criticize Garrett for his performance. After production started, the cast was instructed to play things flat. The aliens would show all the emotion.
Captain Proton? I’d watch it but I’m pretty “meh” on the idea…
Crowdfunding? Not after the Axanar debacle….
You absolutely would have gone. We all would have. It would likely have sucked, but we would have gone.
Captain Proton is a cool idea. I would watch that. It could be made into a Star Trek show or a Short Trek. Something innovative for the Star Trek brand. Maybe even a movie, anything is possible.
a Voyager movie…? yeah..y’know Nemesis’ box office?.. well half that and you have what Voyager: The Motion Picture would’ve made
Voyager doesn’t need a movie because not necessary to the story.
I kind of have to agree. A story about a ship being stranded and trying to get back home is over once they get home. That’s its natural conclusion.
Of course you could argue that neither the TOS movies nor the TNG movies were necessary to the story. However, both of those shows were more open ended and probably had a higher mainstream appeal.
Paramount/CBS could have made several TV movies of Star Trek: Voyager that would be like reunions and keep the cast together with new stories (perhaps ones based on the continuation novels could serve as plotlines for these movies.) But a big-screen movie series? Not a chance.
“And then, just like Gilligan’s Island, we get lost again at the end of that movie and go back into space, so we could have had a whole slate of films.“
How would that be satisfying to anybody? What a bad idea for a movie.
Yes, I could see Captain Proton in Short Treks. I’m hoping we will get a lot more Short Treks too. I’d love to see some stuff.
There are still only four Short Treks per year. Tell me why Captain Proton is so much more a compelling idea than other scripts it would beat out.
For now. The cap is, after all, arbitrary.
captain Proton could be an animated TV show for Nickelodeon or CBSAA, as I’ve said above.
Actually, I see an animated series for Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network (or for CBSAA) of Captain Proton, lasting about half an hour, either as a traditional cel-animated show or a CGI one.
Star Trek Online: We want MORE Captain Kim! (His Delta Quadrant/Kobali story inclusion was fantastic. Great V.O. work!)
No one wants more Kim other than you.
I would watch the crap out of that.
“Captain Proton: The Animated Series”
Ya know, I have to be honest (and I know that given the nature of some Trek fans, I’ll be hated for saying this but…) Voyager just never really did it for me. I found that the plots and writing depended too much on technobabble solutions…REALIGN THE PHASE INDUCER TO MATCH THE FLUCTUATING FREQUENCY OF THE PROTO-MATTER OUT PUT AND THEN…blah blah blah. And not enough “Not chess, Mr. Spock – poker.” And no, TOS wasn’t perfect either – none of them were, but I tended to gravitate more to stories where ingenuity saved the day and not magic machines. To me, by the time Voyager came on the scene, the writing was tired. And yes, I know that there are people who love Voyager, and that’s completely cool with me.
You didn’t say anything controversial, you just didn’t think it was a very good show. There is nothing wrong with that. Everyone will not like every show. Look at all the hate Discovery and Picard are currently getting. At least no one ever said Voyager shouldn’t be canon like those shows. As you said none of the shows are perfect, so they will all have people who don’t think they are good. There are a few people here who didn’t like TNG. Others can’t even watch TOS. Some think DS9 was anti-Star Trek. No matter what Star Trek it is you will always find someone who doesn’t like one of them no matter how much they claim to be a fan of the franchise.
The thing is bmar that as much as there’s a large slice of the audience for whom Voyager’s technobabble, engineering and science focus was eye-glazing, there are a large number of fans for whom this is exactly what makes Voyager appealing.
My sense is that this is exactly why Trek needs to have a menu of series to appeal to different audience niches.
Our kids (middle-graders heading into their teens) say that Voyager has the best technology absolutely in Trek.
Dr Erin MacDonald, the new Trek science consultant, a physicist, says that it was a first season cool science phenomenon episode that drew her in.
For me, rewatching Voyager with our kids, what I can say is that Voyager is the Trek show that most consistently has the feel of real engineers working problems and geeking out together to find new solutions. It beats cringy slogan statements in Discovery of the ‘I like science’ variety.
I don’t know if the science and engineering is why Voyager is doing better globally on Netflix, but it suggests that those who are condescending about Voyager’s technobabble (including more recent scriptwriters, directors and actors) may be misunderstanding its appeal.
Sad there was no DS9 movie or anything as good as DS9 following.
Voyager movie on the other hand :not needed. Voyager never became much more than TNG in the Delta Quadrant, never exveeded TNG’s footsteps. So, Better stick to the original
Garrett says he isn’t very good at self-promotion. Harry Kim asks, “Promotion? What’s that?”
Voyager needed a 3 parter series finale: one more after endgame to see them on earth, trying to reconnect
Yes. A Family to its Best of Both Worlds, as it were.
I actually would go farther with that and do it like what DS9 in its final season where the last 10 episodes were solely done to wrap up the Dominion war arc and show in general. I think Voyager should’ve went the same way and just focus it’s last episodes of actually getting home and build a story line around it. It may not need to be 10 episodes but five would’ve been good. And then that would’ve gave them time to actually do what Wang said and actually see them land on Earth and their lives afterward. It didn’t even need to be an entire episode but a twenty minute epilogue would’ve worked fine.
The issue with Endgame is that it did try and show us their lives afterwards but was more of a cheat. We DID see Voyager make it home, what happened to the crew, etc. That was all shown in the first hour. That’s the crazy part, in reality we saw what happened to them, but no one looks at it that way because Janeway went back in time and just erased it. But the conclusion could’ve had more weight if they treated it as an event in itself instead of it just feeling like a loose end they needed to wrap up. And that’s why DS9 has a much bigger impact than Voyager does today because that show’s story line was given weight and not treated like a last minute wrap up like Voyager’s finale was.
I agree Tiger2.
Not sure 10 episodes were needed, but at least 5-6, with some time on Earth at the end.
However, there seemed to be issues with TPTB of the day who got stuck and really didn’t want Voyager to come home with all that technology.
I bought the Voyager ‘arrived at home’ tie in novels as soon as they came out. It was appalling : Seven and Iceb imprisoned, B’Lanna runs off to find her mother, all the logs and tech is impounded in a secret archive, and everyone other than Janeway is in career trouble.
Subsequently, it’s come out that TPTB basically forced this on the publishing arm.
Eventually, the Relaunch writers room was able to use some of the technology (quantum slipstream drive) and Kirsten Beyer salvaged the Voyager crew.
However, it really seems like Braga and others figured that just because they couldn’t see a way out of the box they felt they’d created with Voyager’s ‘magic’ technologies, no one else would be able to either.
Wow I did not know any of that about the novels. Yeah that would’ve sucked. I’m glad they were able to take them another direction later though. And I never really thought it was a big deal they had advanced technology because in Star Trek that stuff is just forgotten anyway or just used when the plot calls for it. It’s like the time travel issue, they seem to pretend they don’t know how to do it although its been perfected since literally the 23rd century. But I LOVE seeing super advanced technology in Star Trek. That’s a huge reason I love the show and Voyager had a lot of it.
It’s ironically one of the few things I love about DIS and the spore drive. But yeah, the issue was it made no sense being in the period it was in. And you somehow had to tell yourself how could something like that be ignored 100 years later in Picard and Janeways day because by 100 years it should be perfected and used everywhere like transporter and warp drive. That was the only real issue with it IMO. But yeah as said, they ignore stuff all the time anyway. That’s a Star Trek tradition. ;)
And I do think it was a huge missed opportunity they didn’t make the getting home ending a much bigger deal. The irony is Voyager had the longest story arc than any other show as it was all about getting home. There is literally no show without it and it was basically baked in to every episode to some degree. So you would think after 7 seasons they would make it a bigger event instead of just casually finding a way back in the last episode and takes them thirty minutes to use it and then ten seconds of Earth at the end. It should’ve been a much bigger thing but like so much of Voyager there was a lot of wasted potential. That should’ve been one of the more obvious ones to do and to be fair maybe others did want to do more but it was rejected to keep it more episodic like most of the show. Either way its too bad.
Hadn’t heard of those issues with TPTB of the day before. This is just a guess but maybe they didn’t want Voyager to overshadow the Enterprise and its standing as the best Starfleet had to offer. It doesn’t make a lot of sense, plus Janeway actually had a cameo in Nemesis. Who knows?
Ugh – frankly this kind of garbage is why I stopped watching Voyager…
Voyager should have gotten home at the end of season 6 and then during season 7 we’ll see what happens when they’re home again. How do they react towards an ex-Borg, an EMH f.e.
I don’t think seeing “what happens when they’re home again” fills 26 episodes, especially on a non-serialized show. In “real life”, they would probably be debriefed for a very long time, followed by an extended period of vacations and/or the crew disbanding. Assuming you tell one episode focused on each main crew member and how they adjust to being back home there’s still 2/3 of the season left. Voyager consisted mostly of generic adventures of the week. You could continue to do these stories but then what’s the point of getting them home?
Wow! Wang’s stock just went WAY UP with me, calling the last two TNG films for what they were!
In fairness, his pitch sounded way worse
If we’re extracting narratives from within narratives, what about a Dixon Hill movie?
Just noticed that Susan Sackett had posted a response 4/23 in the Robert Sallin interview page. Surprised there wasn’t any response or questions to her.
First contact was ok (preferred voy two parter darknfrontier) every other tng movie was cringy bad.
I would love to see a Captain Proton short trek series, But lets face it the Star Trek franchise hasn’t done bold and brave tv since Uhura first appeared.
Out of curiosity: When you say you want a Captain Proton series how much of that would be in the “fictional” Captain Proton universe and how much of that would recognize that it’s Voyager characters playing on the holodeck? Would you leave the holodeck?
Here’s my pitch: do a satirical Short Trek where Captain Proton (played by McNeill) has to come out of retirement and get a ragtag team together for one last mission. Make the whole thing a comedic B-movie sendup of the “Picard” formula.
Or do a period piece set in old school Hollywood, where McNeill is playing the actor who played Captain Proton, trying to pitch producers on a comeback vehicle.
Those are for free. I’ve got more, don’t hesitate to get in touch, CBS.
I’ve got an idea: instead of TV, make Captain Proton audio dramas like Big Finish does for “Doctor Who”. Captain Proton was already a parody of 1940s film serials, so the audio dramas could be done in the style of radio serials. Plus there’d be no need to worry about visual effects, or the actors getting older. I think it’d work really well!
Wow. Talk about no concept of where his show was. First, there was no Voyager movie because the show just wasn’t popular enough to warrant it. The show ran its course and ended. I would argue that there was no real demand for TNG movies either, judging by the box office, and TNG was much more popular than Voyager. But TNG finished its run too. TOS had demand for movies because the show ended prematurely, was wildly popular, and there were so many more stories to tell.
As for Endgame, I thought it was a terrible finale. What it did was establish Janeway as the biggest villain in Star Trek history. Things were fine but Janeway changed a timeline for her own selfish reasons. She was no better than anyone who used time travel for self gain. The only difference was that the writers didn’t understand that Janeway was the villain.
I disagree about TNG movies, there was a demand because they all made money minus the last one. But I also think what people forget is that this was all during a time there was a TON of Star Trek on. It wasn’t the same in most of the TOS film era or even the Kelvin movies when that’s all the new Star Trek that was around. TOS obviously was more popular in general but until TFF there was no other Star Trek on. If you wanted ANY new Star Trek you had to see it in the theater at that time.
With TNG, Star Trek was a huge staple on TV. You were literally getting 52 episodes a year and a movie every few years. The demand is not going to be as high if you’re satisfied watching it on TV and just wait for the movie to come out on video or cable. So its never been a fair comparison. If there was nothing BUT the TNG films then they probably would’ve made more money BUT its not a guarantee either obviously.
I agree with you about a Voyager movie, the demand just wasn’t there. But I did like the idea of using different captains from all the shows in another movie. That would’ve been a popular idea before Nemesis killed off movies for awhile.
Voyager really is a love letter to star trek fandom after my second watch. I am saying it — Voyager is my second favorite star trek series (after TOS of course). It’s got heart and soul and creative sci-fi writing. Cheers.
I always liked Voyager but it has always been at the lower end of my favorites, second to last before Enterprise. At least until the last few years. But if I’m being very honest I probably would put it ahead of TOS now being third on my list and it’s far beyond DIS and even Picard (DIS is now dead last…still working out where Picard is). I guess because I been rewatching a lot of it in the past year and there are so many episodes I forgot about I really enjoy.
And it just oozes Star Trek to me in the way I like it with trippy sci fi, running into new aliens every other week and just being ‘out there’. Yes it made many mistakes but I love the characters (even Kim ;)) and Seven is just amazing. So happy she’s back in Picard. She’s a big reason I like that show as much as I did.
Again maybe it’s just not being satisfied with Kurtzman Trek so far OR I just miss the exploration side of Trek these days but Voyager is the only ship where no other Trek show had gone before even if it’s premise was watered down…and the Kazon sucked. ;)
But I enjoy it so much these days. I’m HOPING to feel that way about the new stuff in time.