Mike McMahan Gives A ‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’ Update, Explains How It Fits Into Canon

Star Trek’s first foray into animated comedy, Star Trek: Lower Decks, is set to arrive this year on CBS All Access, and the creator of the show is offering an update on how it fits into Star Trek—and when it will arrive.

Lower Decks and canon

Star Trek: Lower Decks is an upcoming animated comedy set shortly after Star Trek: Nemesis. Last year, Lower Decks creator Mike McMahan confirmed the series will be considered part of Star Trek’s canon. Now in a new interview with Inverse, he offers more details:

Within Lower Decks, there is a proper in-canon Star Trek show. It takes place during the TNG era. It’s on a ship that feels like it’s always existed there and the bridge crew is dealing with big, never-before-seen Starfleet Star Trek-type stories. So every episode has a thing like that happening in it. And then, on top of that, we’ve got A stories and B stories that are emotionally driven from the point of view of the lower deckers on the ships. So it was an area of storytelling that people had covered every once in a while on Star Trek, but never built a show around.

It was important to me that if you know everything about Star Trek and you watch this show then it fits into canon and doesn’t break Star Trek. In fact, it grows it. And if you know nothing about Star Trek, then all of the canon in Lower Decks feels like mythological, broad understandable sci-fi stuff. So you can still enjoy Lower Decks even if it’s your first Star Trek show.

Set on board the USS Cerritos—described as a “not very important ship in Starfleet”—the half-hour series focuses on four “misfit” ensigns, or the “lower deckers,” as described by McMahan above. The show will also feature the senior officers of the USS Cerritos, who have their own quirks. Details on the characters were revealed at a SDCC panel last year.

The main characters of Star Trek: Lower Decks: Noël Wells as Ensign Tendi; Eugene Cordero as Ensign Rutherford; Tawny Newsome as Ensign Mariner; Jack Quaid as Ensign Boimler

Still set for 2020 release

Perhaps the biggest question right now regarding Lower Decks is: When it is coming? At SDCC 2019, producers said the 10-episode first season was targeting a 2020 release. In March, McMahan stated that work on the show was continuing remotely during the pandemic lockdown. In his new interview, Mike McMahan gave another update on how work is progressing:

I can’t give you a specific answer on when that’s coming out, but we’re still working on it and we’re on track for when we have planned, which is this year. Animation is kind of uniquely suited for this moment. We didn’t shut down production. Safely recording the cast was really our biggest challenge because we don’t want them leaving their houses. So getting remote setups and stuff was something we had to solve, but it seems like we have.

The senior officers of the USS Cerritos: Fred Tatasciore as Lieutenant Shaxs; Dawnn Lewis as Captain Freeman; Jerry O’Connell as Commander Ransom; Gillian Vigman as Dr. T’ana

McMahan’s Solar Opposites out now

Mike McMahan’s other new animated sci-fi comedy premiered on Hulu on May 8. Co-created with his former Rick and Morty compatriot Justin Roiland, Solar Opposites centers around a team of four aliens who escape their exploding homeworld only to crash-land into a move-in ready home in suburban America.


Keep up on all the Star Trek: Lower Decks news here at TrekMovie.com.

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Everyone can’t be at the top of the class now…..

Ometiklan

While that is true and part of the joke, I did the math once: with a fleet of, say, 10,000 starships and a conservative mortality rate given how often we see entire starships lost with all hands, Starfleet only needs to recruit around 500 cadets per planet per year. Starfleet thus could be 100 times as picky as MIT and still come up with a class of only the best of the best. So in Starfleet, every ship’s crew should be top notch (some are just more elite than others). :)

Theoden_of_ODU

I afraid that you’re probably putting more thought into this show than anyone actually running it.

Maybe if these were non-commissioned people (and not Ensigns) the premise would work better for me.

There’s plenty of ways to pull this off, other than having “misfits” a more realistic approach would be to craft a show with a similar premise as the SyFy show Eureka, a show about a town with the cream-of-the-crop experts often cause science to run amok, sometimes in amusing, sometimes dangerous ways. I suppose the Sheriff was the everyman, though I’m not sure making the ensigns that kind of stock character works as well considering the purported quality of officer that should be coming out of Starfleet Academy.

Who knows, it may be good. I don’t care much for what anyone considers “canon” anymore, especially non-live action works. I just watch what I want and ignore the rest. Maybe the humor will trump any “negatives” it would have had it been live-action.

Faze Ninja

I guess Starfleet is like Harvard, Stanford, or MIT. Too bad I’m not going there for college.

I’m going to the University of Minnesota Twin Cities lol. Yep, Harvard is out of my league. I could go to Starfleet.

Everyone there is at their best.

The River Temarc

Our service academies are absolutely as elite as Harvard, Stanford, and MIT. The US military is, by and large, an institution that values excellence and does a fantastic job of cultivating leadership. There’s no reason Starfleet should be any different.

I’m not looking forward to this train wreck of a show at all. Lawless teens, misfit ensigns. Good God.

odradek

That speech absolutedly convinced me. Look at that fine goverment of the US. Best of the Tops. Trump 2020 keep America greaT, please

T'Pol's Beard

What does Trump have to do with any of this?

ML31

Nothing. But there is so much hatred out there that many try to include him in everything negative.

odradek

Yeah, you are not wrong about this. Sentences like: “The US military is, by and large, an institution that values excellence and does a fantastic job of cultivating leadership.” are hard for me to swallow after your President has pardoned people like Eddie Gallager.

odradek

“I’m not looking forward to this train wreck of a show at all. Lawless teens, misfit ensigns. Good God.”

Maybe you should first check out which show we are talking about, this is NOT the Nickolodeon show. Nevermind: Trump 2020 anyway.

ML31

River, the “lawless teens” feels like it is directed towards the Nickelodeon show. Which I am NOT looking forward to. However, I’m certainly not the target audience. Wish it came out when my kid was that age to see if it might get him into Trek. He’s way out of the target range too.

ML31

The one Secret Hideout Trek show I’m actually looking forward to seeing! This show cannot come soon enough.

Regarding the cast recording from their homes… It’s not unprecedented. Mel Blanc recorded for Barney Rubble when he was in the hospital after a car wreck and later from his home during recovery.

Faze Ninja

Star Trek: Lower Decks is the only Star Trek show I’m looking forward to after Picard.

I agree with you. This show should come out tomorrow!

The other Star Trek shows in development I don’t care about right now.

Scott

That’s interesting about Mel Blanc, I didn’t know that!

Faze Ninja

Star Trek: Lower Decks is my most anticipated Star Trek project since Picard so I have a good feeling about this.

Good to know Star Trek: Lower Decks is considered canon because if it wasn’t canon I would be so disappointed. Lower Decks is a proper Star Trek show so it should be canon.

Since it is set during the TNG era, the events in Picard won’t influence that too much.

The cast are recording from their homes and animation is being worked is nice to know. Really glad it’s coming this year in 2020 and not 2021. We need a show like this right now in a middle of a global pandemic.

Getting good vibes from this! So excited right now.

ML31

To be brutally honest I really don’t care if the show is steeped in canon or not. I just want it to be clever and hilarious. And yes, it is OK to poke fun at themselves or us if it provides a good laugh.

Eric Cheung

I’m really looking forward to it. But the uniforms make it hard to place in a period. Is it between Nemesis and the Picard flashbacks or is it between the Picard flashbacks and season one of Picard? On the other hand, it looks like Dr. T’Ana is using a tricorder discontinued before Nemesis, which would place it between 2375 and 2379.

Faze Ninja

Eric Cheung Lower Decks takes place in the TNG era not Picard. Read the article. Picard is not on the show.

Corinthian7

I don’t think Eric is suggesting that Picard is on the show, although he probably is given that Mike McMahan has previously indicated that TNG era actors could reprise their roles on the show. He’s asking when it’s set in the TNG timeline. I have a vague recollection of Mike McMahan suggesting it would be set after Nemesis and the uniforms would seem to imply this too.

Faze Ninja

I remember him saying that too. The uniforms look amazing. Probably after Nemesis as you say. Picard was after Nemesis so why not that.

Corinthian7

I was surprised that they didn’t use the new ‘old’ uniforms from Picard but yeah, they are nice. We’re obviously going to see live action characters cameo in this show but I wonder if we might see anybody from the Cerritos pop up in a future episode of Picard.

Josiah Rowe

I’d say that whether “Lower Decks” crew show up on Picard will depend on whether Patrick Stewart watches and likes the show. If he does, they might (perhaps in the 3rd season of “Picard”). If not, they won’t.

As for the chronology and uniforms: “Nemesis” is set in 2379. McMahon said that “Lower Decks” takes place a year later, in 2380. The Picard flashbacks to the attack on Mars were set in 2385.

So, unless these uniforms are restricted to Cerritos-class ships only, that means that they were introduced by 2380 and (apparently) replaced by 2385… which may seem silly, but the original DS9-style uniforms were introduced in 2369, and replaced by the “First Contact”-style uniforms in 2373. So this is right in keeping with Starfleet’s constant changing of uniform styles!

Corinthian7

Agreed Joshua there’s been precedent for both frequent uniform changes and different uniforms being in use at the same time throughout Trek history so it doesn’t clash with canon. I just thought it would have been a nice continuity touch given they’d gone to the trouble of developing a different uniform for the flashbacks in Picard. However, I like the new uniform design and I get the logic . It’s clear that McMahon wanted to capture that classic TNG look and feel. This raises the question of why not simply set the show during TNG’s run? Obviously I’m speculating here but placing the show post Nemesis would seemingly make it easier for Berman era actors to cameo in lower decks from a narrative point of view as most of their characters have gone their own separate ways at this point in the timeline.

Having characters from the animated side show up in live action seems a stretch at the moment but not inconceivable. You could easily see Jerry O’Connell playing an older version of Commander Ransom for example. You’re right Sir Patrick would have to be onboard for any Picard cameo/crossovers but I’d be surprised if he doesn’t actually lend his voice to Lower Decks. At his age it’s an easy gig and he’s took voice acting roles before like on American Dad.

ML31

It would be a tremendous mistake for Stewart to show up as Picard on Lower Decks. It would undermine the Picard character to be in something like that. It would make it really difficult to take him seriously after that. Probably the best he could get away with would be a quick cameo. Maybe one line. But even that might be enough to derail his own show.

Corinthian7

I get what you’re saying ML31 but Stewart and the character of Picard have done comedy plenty of times during TNG. Given the way that Discovery has changed dramatically with each season, there’s no knowing what the tone of Picard season 2 will even be. I’m not saying Picard has to be in Lower Decks, I think the show should be able to stand on its own two feet but I think given it’s format it’s likely we’ll see plenty of cameos from TNG, DS9, Voyager and even potentially Star Trek Picard if the series runs for several years. Given the nature of Lower Decks is to focus on the background characters and Jean Luc Picard being very much in the foreground it’s likely any cameo would be very small.

ML31

I have to question your comment that Picard has done comedy on TNG “many times”. I actually cannot recall it be done… Ever. The most leeway I would allow is it wasn’t done successfully. The only comedy that worked was Q when he was being a clown and Worf’s lines in that Robin Hood episode.

Josiah Rowe

Setting the show during the run of TNG would have the potential to tie the narrative too closely to existing canon, and would increase the chances of inadvertent continuity mistakes. Setting it after Nemesis allows a certain amount of room for new developments, while still being close enough to the ’90s show to allow for guest appearances.

Corinthian7

@Joshua Rowe I don’t buy into this logic that there’s less chance of violating canon by setting a show in a different time period. canon inconsistencies occur through mistakenly or deliberately ignoring or contradicting something that’s previously been established as fact within a fictional world. They happened regularly during TOS and having TNG take place almost a century later didn’t stop them occurring in that show. There’s a valid argument to be made that setting a series during a period that’s already been depicted on screen limits the scope of any crisis presented within the story but the very premise of Lower Decks would seem to imply that it’s not about saving the universe every other week.

The River Temarc

Or, alternatively, that they’re taking the view that this is “canon for those who like it, apocryphal for those who don’t.”

If you read his comments carefully, you’ll note that he says the series “fits into” canon — not that it is canon. I think that’s very deliberate.

Methusalah

“If you read his comments carefully, you’ll note that he says the series “fits into” canon — not that it is canon. I think that’s very deliberate.”

You know what, I can live with that because it does not violate the Rodenberry definition of canon.

odradek

For me this kind of canon is a one-way street. Everthing of the other shows will be in continuity for Lower Decks and nothing from Lower Decks will be in continuity for the other shows.

The River Temarc

“For me this kind of canon is a one-way street. Ever[y]thing of the other shows will be in continuity for Lower Decks and nothing from Lower Decks will be in continuity for the other shows.” <– Exactly.

Of course, whether this is smart stewardship of the Star Trek brand (as opposed to confusing the hell out of viewers) remains to be seen.

DIGINON

@ The River Temarc: I’m pretty sure that general audiences don’t care about canon. People who care about this (i.e. hardcore fans) should be capable to follow how the different shows fit together.

Corinthian7

@The River Temarc

It’s possible that they will take this approach, however, if you do read carefully what he’s said then he also talks about “growing” the canon you can’t do this if the canon only works one way. Now the studio may dial back on this approach depending on how Lower Decks develops and how it is received by the fans but it’s clear that at this point they are presenting it as an in continuity addition to the Star Trek narrative.

Ian

So wasteful, Starfleet is!
I would have liked to see Picard and Raffi in the FC-Nemesis uniforms for those flashbacks myself, but judging by the one they gave Brent Spiner, not sure the quality would have been up to snuff.

Corinthian7

To be fair we did at least get to see the FC uniforms on the show. I guess if Lower Decks is part of the continuity then they’d have gotten slaughtered for the canon violation given that the animated show implies a uniform change after Nemesis.

Lord Hobbers

Actually they would be introduced in either 2379 or 2380, as you say, but then replaced by the ‘old’ Picard ones by 2381 since we saw Picard wearing that uniform in the photo with baby Thad.
I would have liked to see the 2380s Picard uniforms on this show, but since they are predominantly black it wouldn’t visually work in an animated show.

DIGINON

Besides popularity there are additional hurdles that may prevent Lower Decks characters from showing up on Picard:
On an animated show the voice actors don’t need to look anything like their characters. You can also do characters that wouldn’t be possible in live action (or too expensive). On a live action show the actor has to match the look – unless you want to split the part and have one actor for the performance and another actor for the voice. Of course, there’s also the question of how well the more stylized animated look will translate over to live action.

The River Temarc

I never knew this until a stay-at-home Bond marathon a couple of days ago, but Gerte Frobe, who played Goldfinger, did not speak English, and some other actor voiced over his lines.

ML31

A number of the actors in the Connery Bonds were dubbed. Largo was in Thunderball. Ursula Andress was in Dr. No. A bunch of others. It was quite common back then. I was a bit surprised when I found out decades ago.

odradek

But if you want to hear how his original voice sounds you can change to the German version. Fröbe redubbed himself for that.

ML31

And in You Only Live Twice Tanaga says something in Japanese and it is the actor’s own voice. All his English was dubbed.

Jako

I just say….. Conan the babarian

Corinthian7

@Diginon you are absolutely correct but this isn’t an insurmountable problem as we’re seeing with Star Wars at the moment. We’ve already had Forrest Whittaker take over the role of an established animated character in Rogue 1 and it’s all but confirmed that Rosario Dawson will take over from Ashley Eckstein when we see the character of Ashoka finally realised in live action for the Mandalorian season 2. There have also been reports recently that Katee Sackhoff will reprise a role she originated in the animated Clone Wars also in the Mandalorian so there is precedent for both approaches in Star Trek’s biggest competitor.

In the case of Lower Decks the majority of the voice cast appear to be experienced live action actors who share enough of superficial resemblance to adequately portray their characters physically. There are notable exceptions of course. Fred Tatasciore is known predominantly for voice acting and looks nothing like Lieutenant Shax but it’s not like we’d ever get to see all of these characters in live action and if they did want to use that particular character a recast or dubbed physical actor (à la Darth Maul) would still be viable for a small cameo.

Obviously there is absolutely nothing to suggest they are even considering bringing any of these characters over to any other show. I just think it’s an interesting area to speculate on given that it’s something they’ve been quite successful with in that other galaxy far, far away. Of course Star Wars and Star Trek are two completely different properties so what works on one doesn’t necessarily on the other. However’ I’d be surprised if the people at CBS were not at least looking at what they’ve been doing at Lucasfilm, both to build on some of their successes and to try and avoid some of their perceived missteps.

Tiger2

Yes he said it was set a year after Nemesis IIRC.

Methusalah

Animated Trek is not canon. Never has been, never will be.

Faze Ninja

Star Trek: Lower Decks is canon.

So what it is animated Trek.

Let’s enjoy some descent Star Trek stories together.

Ozzel

Thanks for clearing that up for us!

Jeff

Oh thank the Great Bird of the Galaxy that we have such dedicated Gatekeepers to protect us from everything they deem as “not worthy”.

P.S. Canon is what the property owners say it is, all fandom hand-wringing aside.

David Marshall

All of it is as much canon as you want it to be. There are no rules; it’s all made up anyway. You can decide what counts for you, but you’re never going to be able to decide for anyone else. And that’s as it should be.

Timpani

Just a heads up that this comes across as gatekeeping and that it isn’t received well around these parts.

The River Temarc

Speak for yourself; I agree with Methusalah. Acting is a craft, one that Star Trek has, mostly, honored extremely well.

Methusalah

Thanks, it was getting pretty lonely here! :-)

Marcelo

Voice acting is also acting.

Silvereyes

What does acting have to do with canon?

Voice acting is absolutely acting–and, I might add, has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not something is canon.

Besides, “canon” is a stupid argument anyway. None of it happened because it’s all fictional. The only people who get bent out of shape and proclaim “This isn’t canon” are those after whom The Simpsons’ Comic Book Guy was modeled.

Methusalah

You do realize that acting itself is also fictional, right?

LOL

Boze

Canon isn’t about fictional or not fictional, canon is about internal consistency.

Expecting new works to be consistent with previously established continuity isn’t all that big of a demand, is it? Especially not today. Everybody has internet these days; everything that is there to know about Star Trek is available online, or can be learned by asking at any random Star Trek forum.

ML31

Good point, Boze. There needs to be rules and consistency when world building. If you don’t have those the narrative suffers.

J.P.

Hey, these are historical documents!

Faze Ninja

No gatekeeping allowed Methusalah.

Fans are so obsessed with “canon” its tiresome. Honestly none of that matters.

We love Star Trek because of the meaningful stories. Whether that’s canon or not is pointless.

Tiger2

I have no idea why people care if an animated show is canon or not? It’s really bizarre to me. I’m really glad its canon though, it makes it much more relevant for fans.

Methusalah

:-) Make up our mind — which is it? Your thrid sentence completely contradicts your first two sentences? Are you in politics, perhaps? LOL

Tiger2

Funny I made a post and it disappeared. I suspect you’re a sock puppet now of a former board member who was kicked off, most likely BorgKlingon, so I won’t waste my time other than saying I don’t care if it is or not as I’m going to watch it regardless. But I prefer it to be canon. Clearly everyone does here. ;)

Methusalah

Huh???

Tiger2

Huh???????????????????????????

The writing style not only gives it away the funny thing is I saw that guy making literally all the same ridiculous points on Trekcre and arguing with everyone why it isn’t canon over there as you are doing here. Yeah I read those too. It’s literally saying everything there with the same dismissive manner: ‘it’s not canon no matter what anyone says because Roddenberry didn’t call it canon.” It’s like you’re his twin. ;)

And that last line about me being in ‘politics’ is LITERALLY what he said to me here in a different post somewhere else. That’s when I realized it was you.

Could I be wrong, sure. Am I, highly, higly doubtful. I don’t care, but I will just ignore you again now that you outed yourself.

Faze Ninja

Tiger2 I’m done arguing with this guy. You should just ignore him. Freedom of speech and all that nonsense.

I’m on Trekcore as Mr Robot when Trekmovie blocked my old account. Long story short, I’m out.

Freedom of speech doesn’t apply here since the government isn’t involved.

Faze Ninja

Tiger2 I’m done arguing with this guy. You should just ignore him. He is entitled to his opinion.

I’m on Trekcore as Mr Robot back when Trekmovie blocked my old account. Long story should, I’m done.

Tiger2

And why did Trekmovie block you??? I don’t think its anything you said here?

Faze Ninja

Tiger2 my old Trekmovie account was Professor Spock but it was blocked. Maybe one of the staff didn’t like what I said.

odradek

If you want to hear my opinion: it is not WHAT you said it is more the way HOW or rather how often you said it. No offenes meant.

Methusalah

Come on, you are having a conversation with yourself here, right? LOL There’s your sock-puppeting!

Tiger2

This is SO annoying my posts keeps disappearing today.

But believe me Faze Ninja I have ignored this guy a looooong time back when he was posting here as BorgKlingon. And watch him try to deny it (“What???? Who is that???? How D-A-R-E you SIR accuse me of being someone else!!! I never heard that name before in my life. Blah, blah, blah, blah!”)

And I know its him because this is LITERALLY the EXACT same crap he has posted about this topic on Trekcore months ago. Down to the same silly gatekeeping argument: “Well Roddenberry don’t consider it canon because he once said that back during the Gerald Ford years so therefore NO ONE SHOULD!!!” (sigh) The same overbearing, argumentative and abusive posts there as he is doing here and why he got kicked off this board in the first place.

I will never get people like this? You get the boot for being an annoying and overbearing donkey, but you DESPERATELY want to come back here to the point you have to hide yourself under a new sock puppet…just do the exact same thing all over again? Why do people NEVER learn their lesson? I guess it’s true, some leopards its just hard to change their spots. ;)

Methusalah

LOL — you are the only one who is likely doing sockpuppeting here. I mean, come on, how convenient is it to have this other ID claim they got kicked off of here (like you claim for me) and then agree with everything you say and ‘pile on” me.

Give me a break!

And I suspect that the reason your posts keep disappearing is that the mods are deleting your personal attack posts.

And I did look back at those posts your referenced from last year from me — now I remember you. You personally attacked and bullied me last year with this same kind of crap. Jesus!

Tiger2

BorgKlingon, an elephant in a China shop could be less obvious.

NOW you ‘remember me’. OK, good to know.

Now, tactic 2 “Wait I’m not the sock puppet YOU’RE the sock puppet!!!!” Desperation at its finest. And I keep writing ‘Trekcore’ and why they keep disappearing. I finally realized that.

Methusalah

Again, I am moving on from your drama. Grow up!

Methusalah

I have no idea what the F you are talking about. Is your personal attack on me here some weird way to control the discussion here?

You seem like one of those people who can never be proven wrong. I don’t think CBS has the right to call this canon, and you disagree. So big deal! I suggest you just “grow up” and stop trying to bully me with false personal attacks.

Tiger2

“I have no idea what the F you are talking about. Is your personal attack on me here some weird way to control the discussion here?”

LOL here we go. “NO IDEA WHO THAT IS EVEN THOUGH WE SHARE THE EXACT SAME OPINIONS AND SAY THE SAME THINGS ON MULTIPLE BOARDS!!!!! I am APPALLED! You DAMAGE my good name sir!!!”

It’s the same crap as before. You haven’t changed one bit. And its funny the guy you said you’re not ALWAYS accused me of never admitting I was wrong either lol. Wow, another ‘coincidence’!! What are the CHANCES, right??? Think about this, I have only been told that by TWO people here, yooooou and Borgklingon…and I been here for years lol. That’s crazy right? It’s almost spooky one would might say.

I don’t care you conned your way back here, but if you pull the same crap as before don’t be shocked when people call you out on it.

Methusalah

Perhaps I should wait 10 min for “Faze Ninja” to provide a supporting post for your here. ;-)

I have been here with the same ID since I first started on this site 1.5 years ago. I don’t post very often and I have no clue who Borgsklingon is.

Please knock off the fake drama and the personal attacks.

Silvereyes

Tiger2, I’ve always liked your posts. You’re a respected and appreciated member here, but honestly, I think you’re drawing conclusions from insufficient facts. Just my opinion. Carry on.

Tiger2

I appreciate that Silvereyes!

And could I be wrong, of course. But seriously, if you spend five minutes on Trekcore on this same topic and read this its very very obviously its Borgklingon. He says literally the same stuff, in the same abusive and overbearing manner as he’s doing right now. And it’s obvious because just like this board he’s the ONLY one doing it there too.

For the record, I’m not trying to get anyone banned (again). And I’m not suggesting there should be some kind of inquiry over it lol. I simply don’t want to deal with his behavior as I HAPPILY no longer had to once he was banned the first time.

But this guy knows who he is, it’s not remotely hard to figure out if you just read some of his past post here. But to be FAIR up until now when he has posted its been more tame and why I didn’t realize it was him earlier. It’s only been this thread where his old behavior has come out and a reminder why no one missed him lol. So I just don’t want to talk to him. As I said if he ignores my post and not try to get into silly fights over and over and over again with me as before then I don’t care. Unfortunately unlike over there is no ignore button here so we have to put up with people we normally wouldn’t.

Methusalah

ATTENTION MODERATORS — please verify for this person who keeps personally attacking me that I am not sockpuppeting here, nor was I posting previously as Borgsklingon? Can you please also verify that Tiger2 is not sockpuppeting as Faze Ninja? Thank you

Tiger2

Anyone can use another email address man. Seriously.

Again, if you ignore me, then you’ll never hear a peep out of me again.

But I will apologize to the board. I was the one to let this get out of hand. I just feel if you were banned then you were banned. And unfortunately there just isn’t an ignore button here. But I was the one who started all of this because I just don’t want to interact with this person again, but I do apologize to everyone for making it a bigger deal than I should have!

Methusalah

Let’s all assume that Faze Ninja just apologized to the board as well. I mean, come on, how obvious was that.

I apologize to the board for getting caught up in responding to every abusive personal attack post from this Trump-like individual.

And I certainly have no intention to responding to this individual further unless he/she responds to me.

Tiger2

LOL I didn’t apologize to YOU man. I apologize to everyone else. We both know who you are man. Seriously. BUT yeah, its no point of disrupting the board over it, but sadly there is just no ignore button. I don’t want ANYONE banned, ever, I simply don’t want to engage with people I clearly can’t have a decent conversation with. That’s the only issue.

But as long as we ignore each other from this point, I have no other issues with you. And I’ll give you the last word to say whatever you want, just as long as you ignore me completely from this point on. OK?

Methusalah

What we both know is that you were sock-puppeting with two ID’s last night. What you are imagining is that I am some person you apparently had some feud with in the past.

Yes, I am happy to never converse with you again and to agree to mutually ignore each other.

Methusalah

Please make sure “your clone” doesn’t respond to my posts either. The deal’s off if you respond to me with your Faze Ninja ID. I don’t care if you use your imaginary wingman on others, but I am not going to put up with it.

Tiger2

Dude I gave you your last word. I have nothing to do with Faze Ninja and he simply disagreed with you over canon as others here. And I don’t need a sock puppet to tell people the same thing twice. Don’t use Faze Ninja as an excuse to keep talking to me man. If you want to respond to him fine. RESPOND TO HIM!

Literally the POINT is I don’t want to have anything to do with you. Nothing. I certainly don’t want to waste energy talking to people under a sock puppet if I’m literally telling you I don’t want to talk to you now? What is the point??? Then I would just keep talking and argue with you as this handle, right?

Just ignore my posts man and I will happily avoid yours. I just really really wish TM had an ignore button to avoid these conversations in general.

Methusalah

We both know it’s you. Keep Faze Ninja leashed under the same agreement — that’s complete bull if you say you won’t be addressing me anymore but then use that ID again to personally harass and attack me. I should not have to put up with that.

I have nothing more to say to you.

Tiger2

Faze Ninja has been here for months. And yes two people can agree on the same thing here and not be the same person. I know, shocking on a message board.

But OK, good you have nothing more to say to me. Thank you! Take it easy.

Methusalah

I never said your clone hasn’t been here for awhile.

Take it easy.

Methusalah

THANK YOU !!!

And I would request to the MODERATORS to verify that I am not sockpuppeting here, not am I this Borgsklingon person who apparently Tiger2 has some personal feud with.

This is so juvenile!

odradek

I don’t know if you are Borg/Klingon or not and I don’t care much, but your accusation against Tiger2 makes you at least suspicious. Tiger2 is one of most respected members of this board and the least in need to defend himself by an other nick. That is pretty ridiculous.

Methusalah

You weren’t participating here late Monday night, when out of nowhere, Faze Ninja shows up and so conveniently claimed he/she had been banned just like this Borgsklingons character apparently was, and also oh conveniently personally attacked me for some posts this Borgsklingons made on Trekcore. SO THIS IS REALLY HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE THAT THIS PERSON WAS NOT FAZE NINJA.

“If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.”

BTW, I don’t even view Trekcore much at all, so that’s all BS.

ML31

Tiger… You might be on to something. This guy is starting to come across as someone who is no longer on the board. I’m getting pretty close to manually ignoring him, like the others who are no longer here.

Tiger2

Yeah it’s him ML31. Look how much he is berating you over your issues with CBS All Access? Hmmmm, who ELSE use to fight with every soul here anytime they said one negative that about that service over and over and over and over again? Who use to be the BIGGEST defender of that service in the past? See another pattern forming? ;)

Funny it NEVER occurred to me reading those posts a few days ago. But once you realize who it is, it’s the same behavior as before, especially the way he talks down to people as he’s being doing you in that thread.

Methusalah

Enough. We disagree on something — so what?

Grow up!

I’m moving on now from this weird drama.

Tiger2

LOL you’re now bringing out the classics! ;D

I’ll make a deal with you AS I did the last time you were here Borgklingon….IGNORE my posts and I will won’t out you again. It’s very very simple. If you’re going to con your way back here and think people are dumb, fine, but I don’t want to talk to you at all. ANd I can’t believe I wasted time with you in the past with your sock puppet. (sigh)

Methusalah

Again, I am moving on from your drama. Grow up!

Tiger2

YOU WERE BANNED!!!!!!!!

You’re hiding under a sock puppet and you’re telling others to grow up? Seriously?

But as long as you ignore me, FINE, I won’t call you out. ;)

Methusalah

Not true. Please stop the total BS personal attacks. And I will post here on any topic of interest to me — your bullying attempts will not work.

Interesting though how the minute I brought up Face Ninja as your possible sock-puppet last night, all of a sudden (lol) Face Ninja’s supporting posts to you on personally attacking me stopped cold. Wow, what a coincidence. ;-)

Tiger2

Man, as LONG as you ignore me, then I don’t care. Call yourself whatever you want here. You know and I know the truth man. It’s not rocket science dude.

All I care is that you ignore me. If you do you won’t hear a peep out of me. That’s all that matters to me and I can talk to people I enjoy talking to even if we disagree.

Methusalah

ATTENTION MODERATORS — PLEASE STEP IN. Thank you.

Methusalah

I’ve been on this board for 1.5 years. I don’t post very often though.

Tiger2

Funny, the other guy got the boot 1.8 years ago. ;)

And that’s why you didn’t get caught because you DON’T post here much. But once you started just being the old ‘you’ as this thread showed, well then it’s not hard to figure out lol.

Here’s a tip: If you want to pretend you’re someone else DON’T write literally the same responses as before with the EXACT same writing styles and think no one is going to remember. ;)

Methusalah

Again, I am moving on from your drama. Grow up!

Tiger2

The reason why you were banned was because of your endless drama. Irony.

ML31

I suggest letting him have his last word. He is compelled to have it. It will never end unless he feels like he “won”.

Silvereyes

The moderator is obviously not looking at this thread. I feel like I’m back in 3rd grade.

Methusalah

Agreed, it’s embarrassing for all of us.

I’m learning pretty quick that this is not a site to try to present and defend a minority opinion. Jesus Christ!

Oh, my god. All the fake melodrama. Grow up, kids.

Tiger2

You’re right. I apologized to the board. I let it get waaaay out of hand lol.

Methusalah

Well said. I plead guilty for my part in this. I have never been attacked like this on a web site before, so I apologize if I got carried away.

The Collector

Kurtzman Trek is not canon either :-)

Methusalah

Actually in terms of this cartoon only you are correct, since Kurtzman is an Executive Producer on Lower Decks.

Methusalah

I don’t feel much of a need to respond to all of the comments here because this is what it is. If anyone wants to call Gene R a Gatekeeper, then have at it. He’s the creator, and he said cartoons and novels are not canon. It’s not open to be debate — I personally am not insisting on this — no gate-keeping by me; I am just going by what the creator decided canon was, and I don’t think anyone after him has the standing to change that.

Don’t shoot the messenger here. Sorry, CBS, but this Trek cartoon is not canon.

Tiger2

“Don’t shoot the messenger here. Sorry, CBS, but this Trek cartoon is not canon.”

You’re not a messenger, just another person on the internet who watches the shows like everyone else. Sorry, CBS owns the actual property, you just own the DVDs you have, that’s all the power anyone has here. They can say what is canon and it is in fact canon because they spends millions creating the content and make all the decisions what direction that content goes in.

Seriously, this is pretty ridiculous and gatekeeping of the worst kind.

Methusalah

Your argument is with Roddenberry, not me. No worries.

Tiger2

Roddenberry has been dead for over 30 years now and has zero say in the franchise being dead and all. He can’t ‘argue’ anything.

Faze Ninja

Methusalah please stop using Gene Roddenberry as an excuse to keep your argument relevant. CBS owns Star Trek not you so this debate we are having over canon is irrelevant.

Methusalah

Sure Tiger2….whoops, I mean “Faze Ninja” of course!

LOL

Tiger2

Wait did you JUST say ‘whoops’??

Do you know who ELSE use that phrase a lot in many of his posts before he got the boot? Why, it just happens to be this guy:

BorgKlingon

Ah, Velveeta has not been made from real cheese in decades my friend.

Whoops!

June 10, 2018 1:08 am”

https://trekmovie.com/2018/06/07/sonequa-martin-green-talks-deeper-star-trek-discovery-s2-tig-notaro-struggles-with-technobabble/

Let me guess, just another random coincidence by two completely total strangers who says the same phrases and expressions over and over, right? Yeah, whoops indeed. ;)

That simply isn’t true, and what is and isn’t canon is in no way your say. The ONLY time the 1970s cartoon was ruled out was in the 1980s, when Richard Arnold arbitrarily said to rule it out, claiming it was Roddenberry’s wishes. Before that point, the cartoons were considered part of the story–and when Roddenberry died in 1991, Arnold was fired within days and the cartoons’ status was restored. Meanwhile, elements of the cartoon have been referenced on The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Enterprise, Discovery and Picard. In fact, Enterprise was planning to do a Kzinti episode in season five. So, yeah, it’s canon. (Not that “canon” matters anyway.)

Just Another Salt Vampire

The TOS animated series is now canon to many, including the studio it seems. “Yesteryear” is one of the best Trek tales ever told.

The River Temarc

…and yet contradicted quite openly by Season 3 of Discovery. They can’t both be canon. Seems to me that CBS chose to treat TAS with about as much respect as the novels.

Tiger2

I never seen TAS. How did it get contradicted?

Just Another Salt Vampire

It didn’t really. Do you like TOS? If so, would be curious what you think of TAS. I’ve come to see TAS as the last season of TOS.

ML31

If I may interject… I found TAS to be similar to TOS in that there are some good ones and some real bad ones. Although the ratio of good to bad in TAS is not as good as TOS’ ratio.

Tiger2

I been watching Trek since the late 70s, I just never gave TAS a chance because it just looked really bad on its own lol. And when I heard it wasn’t canon, it was less of a reason to care I guess.

I keep saying I’m going to give it a chance and watch it since its only about 20 episodes right? Maybe I will just watch the ones people think are good first.

TAS is great. It’s just a continuation of TOS–same cast, same writers, and several of the same directors, with sequels to several TOS episodes.

Tiger2

I just heard too many mix things on it in the past. And the little I seen of the animation itself just never did it for me. But I will try and give it a chance in the future though.

ML31

Just be aware the animation is monumentally cheap. And the scoring is repeated ad nauseum. Very typical early 70’s toonage. If you can get past that, some can be pretty good.

Tiger2

Yeah I know and why I don’t really have a real interest in watching it. I’ve seen clips and from what I seen was enoug for me lol. But then I did suffer through the entire first season of Discovery, I don’t think it can be MUCH worse than that. ;)

ML31

IMHO the writing on TAS is light years better than anything on Discovery. Save for Lethe.

ML31

Not the same director. Hal Sutherland directed most and he came from animation. And only some of the same writers. DC Fontana and David Gerald wrote. But not a lot of other overlap.

The River Temarc

TAS “Yesteryear” took place when Spock was (by the looks of things) five or six. Michael Burnham was nowhere to be seen, despite the presence of the rest of Spock’s family.

“Yesteryear” is widely considered the most sophisticated and “filmable” episode of TAS; you’re going to tell me that “The Magicks of Megas-II,” which makes Star Trek V look like the paragon of scientific accuracy, is canon, when Yesteryear isn’t?

Then there is the recent Short Trek “Ephraim and Dot.” I enjoyed that one for what it was, something of a love letter to TOS. But it clearly a derivative work for TOS, not canon. We saw way too many contradictions with TOS and its films, not the least of which was the destruction of 1701-A.

That’s how I look at these “misfit ensigns” and “lawless teens” animated projects: as derivative works. I’ve no desire to see sitcommy humor shoehorned into canon.

Tiger2

OK great, thanks for the info! But yes even if TAS was canon (which seems to go back and forth so I can’t keep up lol) then Discovery would just be considered a retcon of that (which obviously everything about Burnham is anyway). But I understand your point on it.

I liked Ephraim and Dot as well, it really was a nice gift to us TOS fans but yeah I don’t take 15 minute shorts that seriously either. Canon or not, its just a cute side story, I’m not going to over think it (like I do everything else ;)).

I still think we have to really wait to see a full on animated show to judge it, but no I can’t blame people for being cynical about it either. And I know plenty of people are just not feeling Kurtzman’s version of Star Trek. I’m still mostly on the fence about it but nothing so far keeps me interested like watching episodes of TOS, TNG, VOY, DS9 or ENT does unfortunately.

ML31

OK.. But once again the “misfit ensigns” and “lawless teens” you reference sound like they belong with the announced Nickelodeon kids show rather than the Lower Decks show.

Cmd.Bremmon

I’d trade TNG, VOY and PIC put together for just “Yesteryear” from Animated Series (TOS). Thinking back I think it was watching TAS on CBC right after the station opening and O Canada that got me into Star Trek Trek honestly. It had action, adventure, lots of color and was a cartoon – checks all the boxes for a six year old kid in the 80s (and even then it was old I think?). Why not reboot that?

'Drew

Up to you, eh? CBS disagrees.

Cmd.Bremmon

They need to give up on having a single canon. “Star Trek” now has become diluted into a mass of generic nonsense. I think they should have multiple canons now, look at Marvel. You have the comics for the die hards. You have the movies for the general audience. Ironically my favorite ended up being a kids cartoon because they did it not only for kids with cool stories but for the die hard Marvel fans by incorporating all the best stories and making them fit in a pre-planned arc. Beautiful. Same with Transformers. You have the original, the movies (WTF why?!?!? All that money and CGI but WTF?!?!), and Transformers Prime (AMAZING!! BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL….. done by the same guy who did the movies?!? Why is Prime so awesome but the movies so nonsensical?!?!).

Star Trek has been contradicting itself on a regular basis since the very beginning of the franchise. The contradictions in TOS alone have filled several books. Those complaining about “canon” need to take a drink or twelve.

Matt

Any word on international availability yet?

I dropped Amazon Video after Picard season ended was hoping to only pick it back up again when it returns

Mel

I suspect this or the other animation series might be the most enjoyable to watch of the five new Star Trek series.

ML31

That is what I suspect as well, Mel. I really want to be wrong, however.

Tiger2

I am really looking forward to this now. Originally I wasn’t sure how I felt about it but ever since details were given at comic con and that we could see past characters show up, it does sound exciting. And I’m glad its canon (but I never thought it wouldn’t be and there isn’t a reason why it shouldn’t be).

But it is odd we still seen NOTHING of this show other than a few photos. Why have we not gotten a single trailer yet? Maybe that will happen in comic con (whatever form that takes now) but its odd for a show that is suppose to be release this year they have shown nothing. And we’re all hurting for some real Trek news these days! ;)

DIGINON

They were probably planning to drop the first trailer at some big event in a big room with a big live audience. Obviously that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
It’s also possible that they don’t want Lower Decks to overshadow Discovery while that one is in limbo so they’re waiting until there is at least a release date for Discovery.

Tiger2

Yeah, that’s probably most likely the reason.

Faze Ninja

Maybe Discovery comes first.

Tiger2

It probably does but that’s no reason not to have a trailer since they showed the first Discovery season 3 trailer at comic con and that came out way before Picard did.

Faze Ninja

Some people say animated Trek is not canon. Methusalah said that earlier.

Why is that? Star Trek: Lower Decks is canon because it belongs in the Star Trek universe. It doesn’t matter that it’s animated.

Gatekeepers frustrate me sometimes. It is all made up anyway. Everyone has their own expectations of what Star Trek should be to them. Don’t force it down other people’s throats. That’s how it should be.

For me, the biggest question is not when it’s coming out, but will it be available to the people in the 194 countries of the world that are not USA. Hard to get excited if I don’t know if I’ll actually be able to watch it. The fact that no announcement has yet been made this late in the game is somewhat concerning.

Mel

I bet it will be on Netflix or Amazon in most countries just like DIS and PIC.

Faze Ninja

Probably will end up on Netflix or Amazon for most countries.

America and Canada have different arrangements compared to most other countries of the world like you said.

There are around 200 countries of the world. You mean the 194 countries of the United Nations.

Hmm. You’re right Faze Ninja. The 195 figure comes from the United Nations. But it seems the question of how many countries are in the world is not so cut and dry. Interesting.

DIGINON

There are still a surprising number of contested territories in the world some of which consider themselves to be a separate country but aren’t recognized (or only recognized by some).

Faze Ninja

DIGINON you are absolutely right. For example Crimea is a contested territory between Russia and Ukraine. Russia annexed Crimea that was illegal under international law. Most countries recognize Crimea as Ukraine territory.

Other countries that are not recognized by the international community. The United Nations has the final say in these international disputes.

The River Temarc

Crimea is not an appropriate example, because it was not an independent state, either de jure or de facto, and does not claim to be; the dispute centers on whether Russia or Ukraine (or Turkey, by some tellings) — all recognized states — is sovereign in Crimea.

A better example might be the Republic of China/Taiwan (something of a de facto state, but de jure part of China), or, in the post-Soviet space, Abkhazia and South Ossetia (both officially recognized as parts of Georgia, but they both claim to be independent states; in practice, they’re under Russian suzerainty).

Faze Ninja

The River Temarc the China Taiwan example is a very complex issue. Taiwan claims to be a sovereign country but China claims Taiwan as their province.

China and Taiwan both share a complicated history. It dates back to the Chinese Civil War. Modern China is governed by the Chinese Communist Party.

Taiwan is a democratic state and I respect their independence. Taiwan is a country and China should accept it in my opinion.

I’m familiar with the country of Georgia. That country has their own issues with Russia like you said.

Tiger2

As others said they will probably make a deal to put it on another platform. Star Trek is just too global now to keep any show just domestically. And we heard very little about this show in general other than its coming but I imagine when we get real news those other things will be announced.

Jako

How is it concerning?
Do you think it could ever Not be abvailible outside the US?

You should know better.

DIGINON

The second season of Short Treks hasn’t been released outside North America. Also, a bunch of other All Access shows are not available internationally.

Picard’s Patty

I have ZERO interest in this!

Faze Ninja

No one cares!

Picard’s Patty

Oh, I’m sorry for sharing my opinion about something proclaiming to be Trek, but looks like childish crap! I humbly bow to your superiority!

Methusalah

Your are entitled to your opinion. My goodness, I don’t post here very often, but their are some really entitled fans here who are quick to try to push away those of here who have minority opinions.

Keep you opinions coming, my friend and ignore the bullies (or maybe its one person?).

The River Temarc

“No one cares!” <– You cared enough to reply.

Commander K

Good for you, now go away.

Newman

is Commander Ransom related to Captain Ransom from the USS Equinox?

Steve

I’m going to assume four of them are gay or non binary. CBS Trek in a nutshell.

David Marshall

In a nutshell how, that they’re more representative of actual human beings and no longer completely obscuring anyone that isn’t a white heterosexual male? If so, then yes thankfully!

Steve

5 gay characters and one non binary person in two crews who make up a combined total of 12 people is not “representative of human beings”. It’s SJW pandering, using a sledgehammer. And that’s putting aside the fact that 7/8ths of non main cast recurring characters on Discovery are either female, or black. And I say all this as a gay middle eastern man.

The River Temarc

Who are all these gay characters? Stamets and Culber, who are in a relationship, and Reno (who is recurring, not a lead). Lawd, these gays are about to make like Pinky and the Brain and take over the world.

Steve

Seven + Raffi + the new character in Discovery season 3

DIGINON

Any small enough sample (e.g. main crew members) of a large heterogenuous group (e.g. all human beings) cannot be representative. Some subgroups will always be over- or underrepresented because you always need to have at least one of any subgroup you want to include. If you want to show a gay relationship you need at least two.
For a long time minorities were mostly rounded down to zero when it came to representation. I have no problem with including them now even if it is above their percent share of the total population.

odradek

I feel your pain Steve. TRUMP 2020. Keep faithful.

Faze Ninja

Steve the diversity must be too much for you.

Steve

This isn’t “diversity”. It’s forced gender politics using a sledgehammer, with dozens of spotlights shone all over it.

Matt

If they tell a good story with characters who are diverse who cares? So long as who they bed doesn’t define their character, who cares?

Grow up man, or did “Let that be your last battlefield” go right over your head?

Steve

It’s distracting when it’s so obvious and forced. That’s all.

Matt

How was it forced? We don’t learn that Staments and Culber are a couple until 5 episodes into Discovery. We get a nod that Raffi and Seven might be hooking up in the final moments of Picard.

I’d argue it all feels organic, especially as nothing that Culber and Staments do is stereotypically “gay”. If you swapped either out for a different gender, could the story be not make sense?

Jako

Do you know what is… Forced, Steve?

You repeating yourself over and over again and the Lack if actuall Star trek in your postings

odradek

To me it does not only feel forced but also a little patronising and insulting. The producers signaled we didn’t hire those actors because they are the best but foremost because they are gay. But on the other hand the exclusion of gay characters felt even more forced.

DIGINON

When did the producers say that they hired actors foremost because they were gay?

odradek

You know exactly that implying someting is different from speaking it out. But if you talk more of someone’s oriantation than his talent that says enough.

Matt

spoilers – you dont have to be gay to play a gay character.

Yes, Cruz and Rapp are, but Jeri Ryan and Michelle Hurd are both straight.

odradek

Are you sure, Matt? Because I don’t understand. Please explain me the rules. Why can”t a white british guy play an Indian but a straight guy can play someone gay. Is that still PC? Why then couldn”t Tig Notaro just play an sexually undifined character but it was necessary they force in a line to hammer down that her character was gay?

Matt

Its a future where no one cares, you’re the one making a big song and dance over it.

Sexuality is something you feel and an actor portrays feelings – its entirely different to ethnicity, you’re being obtuse

odradek

I think your idea what a actor can, should and has to do is very limited.

odradek

And by the way, Matt -spoiler- Michelle Hurd’s Raffi isn’t  gay.

Matt

The hand holding over a game of kal-toh and shots with Seven in the closing moments of season 1, suggest she might be in the very least heteroflexible

odradek

Sure heteroflexible. Good thing you have your little boxes and little labels right ready to put everything in. Must be quite convenient

Cmd.Bremmon

I really think they are missing the boat on animation. They should be targeting a generally younger audience with a Transformers Prime type Star Trek reboot. Dare we compare this to TAS where the writers were excited because they could show cool aliens and sets that would be too expensive to film otherwise and harping on how they would aim for their season to be TOS continued.
The prime directive for any animation should be to get kids and teens into Trek with action, adventure and thoughtful stories that get even the parents involved (the Jim Henson rule). And yes, conflict. Right now kids watch Paw Patrol and then graduate to…?? Right now I’d say it’s Marvel Avengers and Star Wars cartoons (Clone Wars) because you get some action but it used to be Trek in the 80s. Robozuma and Transformers Prime seem to work on Netflix. It’s better than any Disney Channel where all you can do is grow up to be a Hanna Montana but still…
Why if you don’t want to watch a kidified soap opera you end up having to cheer for super heroes or Jedi? Yes, it’s better than anything without any action, but still??
Why can’t we go back to the days of cheering for astronauts on a mission of exploration armed only with technology (i.e. Star Trek)?
I worry “Lower Decks” is a kidified soap opera but with holodecks like Orville. I understand that is what TNG that some will watch, “OMG TNG guys eating pizza”, but next time why not target some people looking for action/adventure on the frontier? Why not inject some PBS Spacetime science into it (real science like Black Holes, gas giants, asteroids, anti-matter – not stupid magic mushrooms, not tachyon nonsense) to get some education value. Maybe consider redoing TAS in a Transformers Prime type reboot. Or do that proposal for Star Trek: Federation but as an action show (and with a way better looking Enterprise). Or just start from the beginning and redo Enterprise, right this time in a parallel Star Trek animation universe (Marvel Avengers cartoon was better than the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Transformers Prime was better than the Transformers movies, etc)

Mel

An animated Star Trek series for kids was already announced. It is suppose to air on Nickelodeon.

Mel

An animated Star Trek series for kids was already announced. It will air on Nickelodeon.

Cmd.Bremmon

My worry there is that it is for kids as opposed to a Star Trek show. Was TAS or kids or adults? If you have to ask, perfect! Hoping that it is TAS continued but doubtful. Bet they make that a Star Fleet Academy show.. soap opera style AGAIN. Like poor marksmen they keep missing the target again and again and again.

ML31

I tend to disagree with you here. There is no reason animation cannot be aimed for non child audiences. You can have more adult oriented and more wickedly clever jokes. A lot of animated shows have succeeded at this. Just because it is animated doesn’t mean it HAS to be aimed at the under 8 crowd. They have a Nick show in the works that is designed for just that.

Cmd.Bremmon

Agreed, I meant TAS. TAS was for kids, but it was also for adults. I am pretty sure that I got into Star Trek though TAS (it had the TOS colors and fighting that made you as a kid want to watch, but you ended up staying for the ideals and concepts behind the fun). By making it for both, you’ll get the smart kids who don’t want to be bored to death. Isn’t this the audience you want??
I call that the Jim Henson rule – you make it so it’s fun for kids, but something parents will also sit down, watch and get the adult jokes/concepts.

ML31

I don’t think Lower Decks will be aimed at kids. Just a guess.

Cmd.Bremmon

Oh I am positive Lower Decks is aimed at old people who remember fondly the soap opera that was TNG. Like Orville minus the comedy (and any redeeming value) – though I have the feeling will end up a comedy as the soap opera goes only so far. The types that are like “OMG, someone in a Star Trek uniform eating pizza, I MUST watch them talk about recalibrating the nav deflector to fire off tachyons to save the magic mushrooms that they can beam me anywhere in the universe while I fall in love with my partner in the holodeck playing Sherlock Holmes eating pizza.”
I think this is a huge wasted opportunity. Do a reboot of TAS and you’d have the future of Star Trek and potentially a whole new “canon”.
Replace “kids” with “new fans”. I’d argue you’d bring back some old fans too (like myself currently having to watch Marvel and Star Wars with kids).

ML31

Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like you are thinking this is not intended to be a comedy from the outset. This was indeed intended to be comedy. Not all that serious. I will wait until I see the show before I compare it to Orville Season 1. Which leaned a bit towards the comedy only to have it nearly completely removed in season 2.

Cmd.Bremmon

Yes. TNG was not meant to be a comedy either. But look how many people look at Orville and say “That’s true TNG!”. I bet the same thing will happen here.
The characters even look like more Family Guy than Star Trek: The Animated Series.

ML31

No in nearly every case when TNG tried to have a light hearted episode it failed miserably. The Troi’s mom episodes were supposed to be more on the lighter side but they were just tiresome. The only time they hit the mark with going light was when they made Q more of a clown than a threat. That usually worked. And of course there was, “Captain i protest! I am NOT a merry man!” And “Sorry.” The two funniest lines in TNG. But I think that was an accident. When they tried to be funny it just induced a facepalm.

Cmd.Bremmon

ML31.. you are right. TNG was a comedy in a Facepalm kind of way that Orville replicates to a T. But none of that means Trek should abandon space exploration for Family Guy comedy.
Just go back, pull out the notes for Star Trek The Animated Series with some CGI or quality animation and you are golden.
Q represented everything that was wrong with TNG. Here is an alien race that is all powerful, has evolved into a energy being potentially living in a different dimension. What can we learn from them? TNG says nothing – all glorious humans are going to teach them. Ugh, just ugh. That’s probably what explains the Fermi Paradox, aliens watched Encounter at Farpoint as an example of human sci-fi and then decided we are a write off better left quarantined.

ML31

Sorry, I am forced to disagree. The comedy in season 1 of The Orville was actually pretty good. They got a number of good gags in there. I just wish they went more for the yuks than they did. Then came season 2 when all the comedy went right out the window.

A far contrast from TNG. Which was NOT a comedy but did try lighter fare from time to time. Which never worked. There were a few exceptions as I mentioned above. But when they tried to be funny it just didn’t work. To this day I feel like the Q episodes when he was presented as a clownish figure were not what they were going for. But it’s what we got.

odradek

It is not just a guess. They said it is aimed at adults.

ML31

I was being a little sarcastic.

odradek

Sarcasm doesn’t work on me. I’m German.

Jako

Du schweineschnitzel…

Jako

Wer deutsch spricht, kann kein schlechter Mensch sein … 😏

Cmd.Bremmon

Apologies on this, i used a word I shouldn’t have that got moderated. I didn’t mean to post this twice.

Cmd.Bremmon

I really think they are missing the boat on animation. They should be targeting a generally younger audience with a Transformers Prime type Star Trek reboot. Dare we compare this to TAS where the writers were excited because they could show cool aliens and sets that would be too expensive to film otherwise and harping on how they would aim for their season to be TOS continued.
The prime directive for any animation should be to get kids and teens into Trek with action, adventure and thoughtful stories that get even the parents involved (the Jim Henson rule). And yes, conflict. Right now kids watch Paw Patrol and then graduate to…?? Right now I’d say it’s Marvel Avengers and Star Wars cartoons (Clone Wars) because you get some action but it used to be Trek in the 80s. Robozuma and Transformers Prime seem to work on Netflix. It’s better than any Disney Channel where all you can do is grow up to be a Hanna Montana but still…
Why if you don’t want to watch a kidified soap opera you end up having to cheer for super heroes or Jedi? Yes, it’s better than anything without any action, but still??
Why can’t we go back to the days of cheering for astronauts on a mission of exploration armed only with technology (i.e. Star Trek)?
I worry “Lower Decks” is a kidified soap opera but with holodecks like Orville. I understand that is what TNG that some will watch, “OMG TNG guys eating pizza”, but next time why not target some people looking for action/adventure on the frontier? Why not inject some PBS Spacetime science into it (real science like Black Holes, gas giants, asteroids, anti-matter – not magic mushrooms, not tachyon nonsense) to get some education value. Maybe consider redoing TAS in a Transformers Prime type reboot. Or do that proposal for Star Trek: Federation but as an action show (and with a way better looking Enterprise). Or just start from the beginning and redo Enterprise, right this time in a parallel Star Trek animation universe (Marvel Avengers cartoon was better than the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Transformers Prime was better than the Transformers movies, etc)

odradek

But I think it should be more like Waggon train to the Stars. You know? Like the new Lost in Space does.

Faze Ninja

Lost in Space on Netflix is pretty good but Star Trek does not have to do that.

Cmd.Bremmon

AGREED on the new Lost in Space. I love it, but honestly my youngest kids would have been more drawn to it as a cartoon (and I probably would have still watched it).
Also AGREED on it being for kids and adults.
Beyond the Furthest Star is an excellent TOS episode.
Isn’t that we what we want Trek to be again, what the smart kids watch because it treats them like adults without boring them to death?

Jako

Star trek could use a descent bit of lost in space right know. From a “its a propper science fiction Show” löst in space is far superior.

Cmd.Bremmon

I agree. 100%. You are right.

Faze Ninja

Maybe Star Trek should do the Star Wars approach. You have really good points. Star Trek is not Marvel so that shouldn’t work.

You deserve a high five.

Cmd.Bremmon

Honestly CBS should be worried. If Josh Weadon does a SWORD series (the follow up interstellar exploration agency follow up to SHIELD) it may do Star Trek better than Star Trek…. which would frustrate me.
Already Iron Man, Nick Fury, Captain America and Black Widow have had more dealings with aliens in sci-fi environments in a more exciting manner than most Star Trek these days for better or for worse.
Transformers did it right with Transformers Prime. Hell, I like Prime better than the movies AND the original series. Is it for kids or is it for adults? That’s a good show (that does story arcs PERFECTLY, see how pre-planned arcs are supposed to work??).

Tiger2

I think Joss Whedon is done with Marvel for good at this point. But I would still love to see a SWORD show.

Cmd.Bremmon

Bingo. At this rate Starfleet is going to be seen as a cheap copy of SWORD when it should be the other way around. Get your act together CBS.

ChallengerHK

Every now and then there comes a show where my interest level is so far in the negative range that I’ll actively avoid it. This looks to be that show for 2020.

ML31

Looking at the comments at this time it appears this show is a little more divisive than I would have thought. Color me surprised.

Tiger2

I’m not surprised either since most people don’t seem all that interested in an animated show in general. And I think some don’t like the fact it’s more of a comedy than a straight forward action adventure show like The Clone Wars is done.

For me, I’m very interested in it because it DOES sound different. Different doesn’t always mean good but I really liked all the things the creator has said about it. I never been a big Rick and Morty fan (only seen a few episodes) but I can’t argue just how creative and well written it is, its just my thing personally. But if they can transfer the same kind of creativity to this show then I’m genuinely excited.

But yes I have not loved Discovery and Picard (which I REALLY wanted to love) so far so its probably still best to be cautious than hyped with Kurtzman Trek.

Cmd.Bremmon

“And I think some don’t like the fact it’s more of a comedy than a straight forward action adventure show like The Clone Wars is done.”
Bingo. Anyone remember a time when Star Trek was something to be taken more seriously than Star Wars? It was a long, long time ago… in a galaxy far far away?

Tiger2

I understand why people have an issue with it but I think we should at least wait and see what it is first. But yeah if you just think the basic idea suck then its probably just not going to be your thing. You know my feelings on prequels lol and its hard for me to get excited about them as I wasn’t very excited over Enterprise and Discovery. And yes its NOT the same thing I know, I’m only saying end of they day we’r not going to love every show out there. Maybe this won’t be for a lot of fans but it could still be a great show. We just have to cross our fingers.

And they are making tons more shows. HOPEFULLY we will get a traditional exploration show again like many people want and miss. And I will give them credit, they seem to try and appease fans, the reason Picard probably exists for people who was shouting they were sick of prequels. And I have a feeling a Pike show will happen.

Faze Ninja

Star Trek: Lower Decks could be like how The Clone Wars is for Star Wars. Cartoons are not just for kids. Adults could like it too.

People are already angry that this animated Star Trek show is even canon. That surprised me the most.

I want to give it a chance. I’m in favor of Lower Decks because it’s different and unique. Star Trek is losing that magic and I’m worried that the spirit of Trek is dead.

Tiger2

I don’t get the canon issue at all. It’s so bizarre to me anyone would care. But yes I get for many they just don’t like the idea of live action and animation mixing but this is not a new thing in other franchises.

But that’s why I want to give it a chance as well, it is unique and different. I want Star Trek to take REAL chances again. Now I admit, this wasn’t what I was thinking of lol but it shows the creators want to do different things with it. As long as its GOOD then I’m on board, even if its personally not my cup of tea.

Cmd.Bremmon

Honestly the established Trek canon now leads to excessive boredom. Set destruct sequence code Code zero zero zero. Destruct. Zero and get back to some Wagon Train to the Stars exploration with relatable characters but totally out there aliens / astronomical phenomena. The old fans can have the old canon, the new fans can have the new canon. Marvel had this figured out.

Tiger2

Technically you WERE given new canon though. That’s what the Kelvin films were doing with different versions of Kirk and the gang as well. And how did that go? ;)

I don’t think canon is really the issue (although yes it can be a burden at times). They simply have to write better stories that appeals to Trek fans, period, but that is a very tall order because every fan will tell you something different since none of us here seems to all agree what we want. And setting it in another universe or galaxy or on Pike Enterprise or in the 47th century won’t matter at all if the stories are simply lack luster. I don’t think Discovery had bad stories just because it was a prequel no more than I think Picard had bad stories because it wasn’t a prequel.

The other problem could be that people writing it now just have their vision of it, which may be different from a lot of fans, which is really the real issue. It’s why they are pushing a Section 31 show although hardly anyone seems remotely excited for it. The show can still be good but that’s an example of the big disconnect right there.

But they have proven they can write stuff fans love. Every once in awhile they have delivered solid stories in both Discovery and Picard, it just hasn’t been consistent enough IMO.

And for the record I don’t care that much about canon and I been saying if Discovery had been called a reboot then a lot less people would’ve whined about it. But they seem to think the prime universe is what keeps fans interested and since the Kelvin universe didn’t win people over as hoped, they went back to the well.

Cmd.Bremmon

Went great to the tune of new fans and record box office for trek movies, at least until they made Kahn just a poor guy trying to get his family back while beaming to Earth to Q’onoS to escape from an Enterprise that couldn’t last 7 seconds in combat. What we need is a new canon with more The Wrath of Khan and less Into Darkness (and anything that would be seen as on par with a comedy series like Orville).
For the record, I am actually here because of the Kelvin universe where for a few years it looked like we were going to get some good Trek before that all crashed into San Francisco with the nonsense that was the USS Vengeance (real smooth naming there evil Starfleet).
If your canon ends up with The Family Guy the series as your sci-fi show… time for a new canon. Seriously.
That’s the beauty of having new canon… you’ll be happy because in the 323th century Riker is eating pizza in galaxy 4324. I’ll be happy that I get a new sci-fi show with some action and adventure in the final frontier. Win-win.

Tiger2

Yeah everyone went to see the first movie because of all the hype over seeing a $150 Star Trek movie and a reboot of the TOS characters with sexy young people and cool action. But that hype didn’t last forever obviously. And I LIKE the Kelvin movies but they are clearly divisive for most fans.

And dude we want the same thing, just a good Star Trek show. Yes I’m not big on prequels but if its good, I will watch it to death lol. I’ll take it in ANY variation just as long as its GOOD! ;)

Cmd.Bremmon

I think the Kelvin timeline would have worked perfectly as an animated series (ignore Into Darkness, that was just… ugh. And I love all things TOS but Into Darkness, horrid!!).
Seriously. Why would you take Kahn and make him a poor lost dude trying to find his family while beaming from Earth to the Klingon homeworld?? WHY?!?!?! WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT?!!?
Why would you goto all that work to bring back the 1701, the ship that could take a beating and keep on-going.. only to show it last seven seconds in combat??? SEVEN SECONDS?!?!?!? I know the Ent-D couldn’t last five seconds, but seriously… you just went out of your way to copy Star Trek II almost line by line in some places. Can’t you see she lasted more than two hours in combat?? KAAAAAAHHHHHHNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tiger2

While I had MANY problems with STID, I didn’t have as many issues with others did here. And I never thought they treated him like a victim but agree with the tacked on TWOK ending. That was a big mistake. I just hated he didn’t feel like Khan at all and the film would’ve just been better if it stayed a Section 31 movie and John Harrison could’ve just defected from them because he didn’t agree with trying to drag the Klingons into war or something.

And it is funny the Enterprise got its butt kicked in every movie lol.

ML31

Some just are anti Trek animation and some are just turned off that it will be trying to be funny. I kinda get that but this is what will happen when they go for multiple kinds of shows. Not all of them will be everyone’s cup of tea. I, for one, have zero interest in their Georgeau led Section 31 show. But I know there are people out there who are loving the idea. And that is the point. A little something for everyone, right?

Tiger2

Exactly! I would rather have this show then I would the Space Hitler show in a heartbeat. So not everyone is going to love everything. The GOOD thing is there will be enough shows on that you have real options. Sure you can hate all of them and I suspect many people will lol but if they are all doing something different than the other, it will satisfy most fans at least.

Cmd.Bremmon

I’ll take Clone Wars with action/adventure/excitement over some TNG guys talking over the water cooler anyday. And I dare say I was way WAY more a Trek fan than a Star Wars fan. Wonder what the general audience would lean to.

Cmd.Bremmon

Animation looking less Family guy and more Star Trek The Animated Series would have helped I bet. Anyone see the animation for Star Citizen, the computer game? Or Halo or Mass Effect on XBox?
Who thinks all the kids playing Halo are going to be dying to see this bit of sci-fi?

ML31

I really hope you are not endorsing the ridiculously cheap animation process of the early 70’s. I grew up with that stuff and some of it does hold a place in my nostalgic memory center. But it would NEVER fly today.

Cmd.Bremmon

Take TAS and redo it with modern animation, CGI, etc. That’s what I’m talking about. Hell, you can even start with the good TAS episodes (Beyond the Furthest Star), etc.

Faze Ninja

I’m also surprised by how divisive this show is now. I am cautiously optimistic about it. Discovery and Picard was a let down for sure. Come on give this show a chance to fly.

Legate Damar

Every Star Trek show is divisive. That’s just the nature of the fandom.

blackmocco

It’ll be interesting to see how this is received. If it’s good, it’ll be the first new CBSAA Trek product to manage it and I would think fans (including myself) will be pissed they couldn’t manage it with the two live-action shows as well. If it’s bad, well, par for the course with this bunch in charge. (FWIW: I think it’ll be fun and entertaining as a diversion from the other shows, as it was only always intended to be. Arguing about whether it fits into canon is kinda pointless. Who cares? McMahan is a funny guy, Rick and Morty is great, Solar Opposites not so much.)

AllenWrench

I want to give this guy and his Trek show a chance, but that trailer for Solar Opposites didn’t exactly win me over. Are they talking that fast to compensate for mediocre writing? What’s the rush?

Faze Ninja

I understand your skepticism.

bassmaster22

When is the muppet Star Trek series coming out? I mean, they must be planning one at this point. And, yeah, I’d assume based on all the arguing here that it would have to be considered canon (whatever that means anymore.). Talk about milking a franchise. Sad.

DonDonP1

Cool! Now that the post-2371 Starfleet combadge was seen in a few episode of “Star Trek: Picard,” I say that those combadge should be seen in “Lower Decks” as well, replacing the ones *for* “Lower Decks.”

FASAfan

Hey! Mike McMahan,

STAR TREK PIKE NOW!!!

Cmd.Bremmon

Get it Done. Punch It.

Don R. Gilman

2nd animated Star Tek. ToS had a brief season. Star Trek: The Animated Series 1973.

J.S.

It if’s in TNG era why are the uniforms different? 25% different again?

Jako

It was never 25…