Review: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Moseys Into A New Frontier In “Far From Home”

“Far From Home”

Star Trek: Discovery Season 3, Episode 2 – Debuted Thursday, October 22, 2020
Written by Michelle Paradise & Jenny Lumet & Alex Kurtzman
Directed by Olatunde Osunsanmi

SPOILER-FREE REVIEW

With a return to more familiar ground, “Far From Home” feels like the Discovery we know, but with some welcome (for the most part) tweaks for the new season.

A redhead and a Kelpien walk into a bar…

 

WARNING: Spoilers below!

“We made it”

A part two in all but name, this week’s story is all about the USS Discovery and crew (sans Michael Burnham) thrust into the future. Like last week’s Michael-focused outing, we pick up the action immediately after the chaos of the season two finale, with the Disco sliding out of the wormhole towards a fractured planet and a crew suffering a severe case of the space bends. They survived this wake-up call of an opener only through some creative flying by Detmer, well-coordinated technobabbly teamwork orchestrated by Saru, and spectacular visual effects. The end result is one of the best crash landings of the franchise and a ship barely holding itself together, with a crew that isn’t any better off.

Now stuck in the ice on some (not Terralysium) world with a dubious atmosphere, the crew doesn’t know where—or even when—they are. The two MacGuffins for the week are restoring power and fixing a thingie (transtator) to get communications working again. Georgiou, fresh from gleefully dissolving Leland/Control, is being very concerned-mom about contacting Michael, especially for an evil Mirror person. A pleasantly decisive Saru puts Nhan in charge of repairs and picks an extra-flustered (and that’s saying a lot) Tilly to join him on an adventure to this strange frontier world to get the stuff (rubindium) they need to make that important phone call.

Do you see the problem with my standing desk?

“We’re all adrift together”

“Far From Home” benefits from a brief bit of the same Icelandic location shooting as the season opener, presenting us with a very alien world. Tilly is as confused as everyone as to why she gets to go on the critical away mission, but Saru shows what kind of leader he is by assuring her, “We are introducing ourselves to the future. You, Ensign Tilly, are a wonderful first impression.” The two muster their courage and mosey their way into a saloon in a ghost town of a mining settlement and Sylvia proves the acting captain right when she deduces that offering the very skittish locals dilithium will diffuse a gun-totin’ standoff.

The townsfolk may be from Coridan but they have found themselves in a classic western, complete with some ruthless outlaws terrorizing them. Tilly and Saru start to sort out that this future they find themselves in may have cool tech (like programmable matter to fix their transtator), but the Federation and Starfleet are mere legend, leaving places like this unimaginatively named “The Colony” on their own.

Sylvia is not cool with the future being mansplained

Our heroes try to keep their 23rd-century origins on the down-low, but the villainous Zareh shows up with his space spurs (really!) to figure it all out, killing one of the nicer locals to prove he is still in charge. Jake Weber does his best to infuse this mustache-twirler of a baddie with some menace, but his cliched arrival provides little beyond more exposition on the post-Burn state of the galaxy. After some mundane hostage negotiating with Saru, Georgiou shows up for some Machiavellian undermining of Zareh’s gang, followed up by her martial arts routine, and demonstrating how setting weapons to just inflict pain has little effect on someone from the universe that invented agonizers.

Here’s where the episode and Doug Jones step up and demonstrate leadership with a Star Trek theme. Infused with a new level of confidence, Saru stands up to Georgiou’s casual cruelty and shows the locals that the Federation still lives, if we all just believe in it. There’s a new sheriff in this one-starship town, and he’s a Kelpien. So the miners get their dilithium, the Discovery gets its communications fixed, and Zareh gets put out to pasture in the cold of night.

Bet this guy didn’t think his day would end being a human shield for a woman from another universe

“Keep at it, Cranky Pants”

Leading the charge to restore power back on Discovery is Lt. Cmdr. Stamets, who starts the episode in even worse shape than the ship after being put in a medical coma by his partner Dr. Culber in the season two finale. Anthony Rapp and Wilson Cruz fall right back into their perfect chemistry with some fun banter and cellular regenerating in sickbay. Paul jumps into even more fun banter when he is paired up with his onboard bête noire Jett Reno, who is determined to guide his repair work in a Jefferies tube, whether he wants it or not.

The tension gets ramped up with a frosty ticking clock in the form of parasitic ice that is also a fan of the tropes of westerns, determined to take down the Disco for good… by sundown. And like the acerbic blind leading the caustic blind, an in-severe-pain Reno guides a bleeding Stamets to the right EPS junction with a little help from her floating robot drones. Any scene with Rapp and Tig Notaro is comedy gold, and these two deliver the best moments of the episode, and it’s not just played for laughs; as they struggle to save the ship, they give us genuine dramatic tension and even character growth, followed by Jett calling Stamets “bobcat”… due to the drugs, you see.

Don’t worry, some of this blood isn’t yours

There is also a bit of a third thread through the episode which is mostly setting up an arc for the rest of the season. After the crash, Detmer is ordered to sickbay after getting her bell rung from being tossed over her console. But even after an overworked Doctor Pollard says she is “good to go,” it’s pretty apparent Kayla is far from good, and can barely seem to go. She can be seen walking the corridors like a ghost, and the only person who seems to notice is Dr. Culber. Detmer is headed to be the ship’s poster child for the PTSD coming out of everything this crew has experienced between the Klingon War and visit to the Mirror Universe, the fight with Control, and leaving behind their pasts. This is all conveyed in just a couple of quiet moments, so Emily Coutts showed she can do more than just fly the ship (which she also seems awfully good at).

Detmer is in no mood to join Nhan in a selfie

“We’re good to go”

The storylines converge as Tilly and Saru are introduced to personal transporters and returned to the ship, now ready to lift off. A distracted Detmer needs prodding to thrust Discovery out of the encroaching parasitic ice, which isn’t letting go without a fight. And if things weren’t bad enough, some “enemy” ship shows up to capture them in a tractor beam.

Saru bravely leads his crew to deal with their fate, but even with the extra ominous music, we all know what’s coming next right? The only big surprise here isn’t that they are actually being saved from the ice by Michael Burnham, but that she suddenly has some impressively-braided long hair. And with this, the unwritten “Part 2” of the season open comes full circle with Michael revealing to the elated crew she has been waiting for them for a year… Time travel, am I right?

Which one of you said screensavers aren’t cool?

ANALYSIS

Course adjustments

While risky, last week’s excellent season premiere ended up benefiting with a single regular character, turning the episode into a little standalone sci-fi action/adventure movie. Writers Paradise, Lumet, and Kurtzman left a lot of the literal heavy lifting to this more grounded second part, where we returned to a familiar setting. Catching up with some of our favorite characters was fun, but they all came with their own baggage and that gave this part two a slower pace and cut down severely on the worldbuilding that could be done for this new future. Michael was able to let go of her past and explore this new future, but Saru and the crew had to be more practical and deal with the literally bloody consequences of season two, which should continue to resonate.

Returning to Disco was a great way to set up or reinforce themes for season three, including teamwork. And in both subtle and overt ways, “Far From Home” did some course corrections. Like episode one, the tone was a bit lighter than previous seasons, setting up an expectation that this is a welcome new normal for the show.

It’s been 20 months since season two, so Owosekun needed a moment to remember which button to push for shields

Our main characters get some season three tweaks. Saru now feels fully in command. Tilly is still a bit frazzled, but it’s more natural and not cartoonish. And when Saru cut off her WTF at the T, the show seems to be telegraphing that they may not be randomly dropping f-bombs in season three. Stamets and Culber are moving to a new and even better dynamic, without Paul losing his edge. Reno is still Reno because that perfectly fine.

Another welcome evolution is the expansion of the bridge crew, with more nice moments for secondary characters like Owo, Linus, and especially Detmer. Nhan also got a bit of a course correction after heading into a dark place towards the end of season two, giving her character a bit more of a reason to be there and a personality of her own, instead of (thankfully) becoming a Mini-Me of Georgiou.

As for Phillipa, like Saru, it’s not clear the writers know what to do with her. She claims to have joined them in the future to avoid becoming a 23rd-century bureaucrat, but really the producers just like working with Michelle Yeoh and until her Section 31 show really gets going, they want to keep her around. Hopefully, this episode isn’t the template for her to essentially act as foil to create conflict on the ship and step in periodically to do the dirty work that everyone else’s Federation ideals won’t allow.

You still have some Leland on you

We don’t need no stinkin’ Federation

All of the focus on characters in this episode left little time for worldbuilding, something Saru warned us about early in the episode. We learned a bit more about programmable matter—the secret sauce of 32nd-century tech—and how it needs specific recipes (programs) to work, and how couriers like Book can be much more than just delivery drivers, holding sway over territories through monopolizing the essentials.

But the thing most fans are probably noticing is the Zareh’s gang using a pidgin version of the common tongue that appears to have grown in this post-Federation frontier. Most importantly they used the term “V’draysh” for the Federation. Eagle-eared fans may remember this term being used in the excellent Short Treks episode “Calypso,” and writer Michael Chabon later confirmed it was a term for the Federation.

As we discussed in our “What Star Trek Future History Could Tie In To ‘Discovery’ Season 3?” analysis last week, “Calypso” was one of three intriguing possible connections, but for now it’s not entirely clear how it fits into the timeline of 3188. We may take a closer look at the possibilities in a follow-up.

The wait staff at this bar don’t take kindly to bad tippers

Welcome to the future frontier

While maybe not as fun or exciting as the season opener, “Far From Home” ably finishes the job of bringing Discovery into the 32nd century. Following the frenzy of the opening minutes, the pacing was a bit languid, but perhaps that served this more character-focused episode. Director Olatunde Osunsanmi gives his actors the space to let these moments land, and thankfully is limiting his frenetic camera moves to the action moments that merit them.

The writing trio of Paradise, Lumet, and Kurtzman do an excellent job shaping (and reshaping) our favorite characters and introducing some new ones, notably the sympathetic Coridanite brothers. However, Zareh was far too clichéd, which was surprising after some of the more interesting and colorful adversaries created for the season premiere.

The special effects team has really upped their game for this season, especially with that opening sequence, but even subtler moments like programmable matter, Reno’s drones, and Linus’ blink all add up to making us feel like we really are in the future. As for the production design, it feels like they took the space western motif too far. You don’t need space spurs and swinging saloon doors to give us that frontier feeling.

Now it feels like all the pieces and people are now in place to really begin our far future adventure, with very high anticipation for a new episode coming in just a week directed by Number One himself, Jonathan Frakes.

Saru just remembered he’s going to have to get out of this comfy sweater and back into that itchy uniform

Random bits

  • USS Discovery is equipped with graviton beams.
  • There is a new set for cellular regeneration, which was used only briefly, so we’ll probably see it again.
  • Pike’s ready room is a mess, someone is going to have to remodel.
  • We have no idea who the chief engineer is or was, but Reno is acting like de facto chief.
  • Georgiou takes interest in Linus’ visual spectrum of 74,000 nanometers, but we never learned why, so maybe for later?
  • Zareh mentioned doing business with a “Tellarite Exchange” and the Orions.
  • Discovery went into the future with 88 crew, so about 1/3 stayed behind.
  • 16 of the 88 were wounded during the battle and trip.
  • Even in the 32nd century, future energy weapons make lots of extraneous noises for no apparent reason.
  • It’s not entirely clear what Saru’s quills do. They don’t appear to have a lethal poison as Zareh survived being hit with them, but maybe they immobilize.
  • Even though the guy cleaning the cube revealed his name to be Gene after Reno called “Hazmat,” he was still credited as Ensign Hazmat.
  • Deep cut of the week: Tilly cites Regulation 256.15 (“Officers shall show professional behavior at all times.”) from the TOS novel: Vulcan’s Forge
  • Line of the week: Tilly to Georgiou: “Um, you have some Leland on your shoes.”

Mullets will make a comeback in 3189

More to come

Every Friday the new TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek Podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe and discusses the latest episode. The podcast is available on Apple PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsStitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.


New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery premiere on Thursdays on CBS All Access in the U.S. and on CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada, where it’s also available to stream on Crave. Episodes are available on Fridays internationally on Netflix.

Keep up with all the news and reviews from the new Star Trek Universe on TV at TrekMovie.com.

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First!
Some minor impressions:

-Space Hitler behaved like she was in command.
-Discovery stranded in the future felt a bit like the pilot of VOY
-Programmable matter looks a bit like Leland’s nano-tech. Coincidence?
-The location reminded me a bit of that on The Last Jedi and also Interstellar.
-The are crashing toward a planet and of course it is class M with breatable atmosphere and the same gravitation. (maybe Strang New Worlds is gonna change that?)

The scenes of Space Hitler interacting with some crew members might have a purpose. Recruting some loyal followers? I smell a subplot is built up which leads to the section31 show. It has been very quiet about the plans and I think that is no coincidence. (Not that I’m interested in a S31 show)

My minor impressions:

  • Space Hitler saved the day. She was also more concerned with Michael than with conquering. So yay to the continuation of the Space Hitler redemption arc!
  • Saru, despite now being a predator himself, seems to lack strong combat capabilities because he didn’t just kick the bad guys of the week’s asses. (After all, he needed to be helpless enough to let Space Hitler do the job.)
  • Stamets and Jett are both stubborn to the point of dying because they don’t want to ask for help? Probably blows to the head affected their judgement. Even though Jett might be that stupid, Stamets is a pragmatist when the situation really calls for it, even if he fusses about it.
  • This took place in the wild west with spur boots because…
  • What is wrong with Detmer? We already did this it seems with Airiam.
  • Space Hitler and Linus? I like Linus. Don’t screw with Linus. Even if he is named Linus.
  • Saru did manage to get Space Hitler to back down so that’s something? It was also nice to have that little moment around there where it felt like Star Trek as Saru and Tilly showed who Starfleet is.

All in all, this felt barely like Star Trek, and now I’m wondering if my restored hope after last week’s episode was restored too easily. Hey, at least I can empathize with the Discovery crew, now there’s another unknown in my life.

A power struggle between Saru and Space Hitler was what I logically expected to see this season, but also what I am kinda worried about…
Since her official cover story in Season 2 was that she is her Prime counterpart Captain Georgiou, shouldn’t she technically outrank Saru?
On the other hand though, everyone (or at least everyone who counts) on the Discovery knows who she actually is, so this cover story is void.
Also, Saru called her Commander in this episode – is this a retcon, or was Saru deliberately trying to make a point regarding the whole outranking stuff??

BTW, “this could easily have been a plot for a Voyager episode” was my thought too!
(Some important part of the ship has to be fixed, but since the crew lacks access to the rest of Starfleet, they have to rely on some aliens helping them out. But before that can happen, the crew has to help the aliens solving their major problem, and this preferably in a way that doesn’t betray their Starfleet values…)

Last edited 1 month ago by Bird of Prey

Georgiou said that she came along to avoid paperwork, but its pretty obvious that she wanted to make sure that Michael was okay.

Yes, she seemed far more interested in communicating with Michael than taking command of the ship and conquering the galaxy. Funny that.

Yes. Which is really odd. It’s a non-MU characteristic. Makes me think the MU they visited isn’t the MU from TOS at all.

Attachment…

Michael is her anchor in the Prime Universe, and it was Michael who brought her from the MU to save her.

Michael has too many mothers. It’s positively ancient Greek.

She has no reason to be attached to anyone. She doesn’t rise to become the evil emperor of the galaxy by forming attachments. That is if she truly is from the TOS MU.

ML31, you are giving them too much credit by asserting they have any idea about theory of mind or deeper personality motivations. These characters behave so inconsistently and illogically because they don’t!

Human children survive to become adults, even in the MU.

Some narrow, and likely narcissistic attachment by parents seems necessary.

The Mirror Universe Burnham was fostered/adopted by MU Georgiou, so there was a bond, even if MU Burnham exploited that attachment to turn on Georgiou.

That betrayal would have been very damaging to MU Georgiou if there was any genuine attachment, no matter how warped.

Desire to “rewrite the ending” of a failed relationship is a pretty common human motivation. It led to Prime Burnham saving MU Georgiou, and logically for MU Georgiou in relation to Burnham.

Inconsistent. If MU Georgeau did harbor such feelings it would have meant her downfall as evil queen. And if she were to treat PU Burnham like MU Burnham then she is too stupid to have ever become empress in the first place. Further, Burnham showed tremendous stupidity in bringing PU Georgeau back to begin with. But her motivations and actions have often been all over the map and illogical. So I guess that keeps her in character.

Yet that didn’t stop her being willing to execute Michael shortly after meeting her in the MU. It’s not terribly consistent.

Such tediousness that Mirror PG is being kept around in this rebooted reboot, because the producers like Yeoh’s minor star presence. (Then write for her strengths, don’t give her these verbose attempts at wordplay in a language that she struggles with.) Mirror PG just pointed a gun at the acting captain- any serious captain would confine her to the brig or maroon her on Juppalon 9. We don’t need her arbitrarily sticking around to create cheap tension.

If Space Hitler was killed off tomorrow, I’m convinced more would like the show than less.

I think they really do love Yeoh and probably feel she brings a certain level of quality to Star Trek just having her. But when your character is basically a live action cartoon she’s not adding quality to the show as much as they seem to think she is.

I think the reason she was so concernd about Michael is that the writers want to add a little depth to the character, because Mirror Philippa is cartoonish. And doing mirror things is a alone a little bit boring, so it is understandable they want to add some othe traits.

Respectfully, it’s like adding “complexity” to Hitler, and garnering sympathy for him, by focusing on his empathetic relationship with his dog. Never mind those 6 million Jews…

It’s hard to get past that she wiped out entire planets even if the writers and EPs don’t seem to take that as real in-universe.

Unless there is some twist.

Is there any change that MU Georgiou isn’t exactly who we thought she was, but isn’t Prime Georgiou either?

TG47, I can imagine they ultimately go for such narrative gymnastics to “whitewash” the character (and even think they are clever at that!) but I can only say after being on the receiving end of such inane twists several times since Discovery launched, with Tyler, with Lorca, with the entire impossibility of Discovery in the 23rd century, I perceive this as fundamentally dishonest writing.

The bond of trust between writer and audience is broken (for me, since Lorca at the latest, and the eyeballs in Picard) and I dont see why we have to give them any benefit of doubt at this point, or should!

I think the massive drop of comments for just the second episode (not just here) is a good example that others think alike and have already given up on the show. Not everyone can be as masochistic as me! ;)

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

I ‘m in the same boat. Secret Hideout lost me with the Lorca “twist”. That kind of mistake will be VERY difficult to bounce back from.

Where I sit, the only way out is to try an entirely different group of writers and see what they can salvage. And HOPE the new group is better than the last one.

Of course, ML31, right now they double down on the opposite, which is bringing those writers to the new shows (except LDS). That’s not how a clean slate looks like.

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

I certainly wouldn’t put it past this group….

So this was the proper Star Trek opening for this season (Space Hitler notwithstanding) after last week’s nauseating “emotions and explosions”. For Discovery’s ever-lowering standards, I consider this a success! And I take Saru’s beautifully understated “There IS life” over St. Michael’s howling and hissing any day!

i kept waiting for the crew of the Serenity to walk in.

Aside from that, I couldn’t help but think that season 3 has inadvertently demonstrated that the show works better when it either focuses solely on Michael or solely only on the crew of Discovery without Michael. The two pieces seem stronger when they’re apart, if that makes sense. Season 3 could easily have focused only on Michael and Book or only on Saru and the crew of Discovery.

I think just re-aligning things so that Michael became part of the ensemble would work.

Orange is The New Black managed that very successfully, initially it centred heavily on Taylor Schilling’s new inmate as the lead but later she is just one of many characters the show switches focus between.

That is the approach I’d like to see Discovery take, though the ending of this episode doesn’t give me hope it’ll go that far. Still, hopefully there will be a bit more balance and time for the supporting cast.

Agreed.

The supporting players were better realized even as far back as season 1. It’s an ensemble that may be limited by the serialized nature of this particular series with the focus places squarely on the lead character.

DSC producers designed Game of Thrones-level unexpected death for the bridge crew that never truly materialized. Lorca is a bad guy – so it wasn’t that surprising. Airam’s life was all foreshadow so it didn’t hit quite hard enough. So are the writers left with too many crew?

In this episode, I loved the shot at 49:00 of Detmer getting at her desk still in pain. The flares made my eye focus on her fingers – which may not be really connected to her mind, and this episode shows how the crew needs her. Does this mean Detmer is going to get it? Wondering about that now feels excellent.

And this was in an episode that did seem to move a very good pace. I hope that can continue.

Last edited 1 month ago by Trek in a Cafe

Interesting point. I did not consider that but now that you mention it… Yes. They don’t seem to work well together. I liked the Discovery crew better when Burnham wasn’t a part of it. In fact, I think it would work better still without Georgeau, as well. Even Tilly was slightly less annoying here.

Yes, yes and yes! You know they would be a half-way competent, normal Star Trek crew like the ones of all previous series, without the over-the-top characters who jumped in from other genres!

IF Michael was rewritten to have the same personality, but given equal screen time and importance, she could work. Space Hitler needs to go.

I liked this episode more than the first one, but one thing that is really starting to bother me is the uneven characterization. How many different people are writing these characters? Georgiou is just all over the place. And Tilly seemed a bit more confident on the Glenn than she was here, even though she’s had a lot more experience between then and now. I expected her to be a bit bolder, but she wasn’t, which was disappointing. Plus, where were Burnham’s over-emotional freak outs here? If any situation called for it, finding your crew and completing the mission after a whole year would be it.

And of course, I was really disappointed by that ending. Can’t we have an entire episode where the rest of the crew shines, and stands on their own, without Burnham saving the day? Sure, Saru and Tilly helped some people out, but having Burnham save the day at the last moment negates all the work they put in to fix the comms and engines. Before people come at me and cite Picard and Kirk supposedly saving the day all the time, they did not. It’s usually a team effort. I really wished they had gotten out on their own and then met up with Burnham in the next episode using the repaired comms.

At least we have Jet Reno still… and I hope she sticks around. She made me laugh out loud a couple times. Thankful for that at least.

I agree, it was predictable, underwhelming, and unfortunate that they spent 54 minutes trying to fix the ship to leave, then couldn’t, only to be saved by St. Michael. An extra minute of filming could have saved the ending. Let Discovery make orbit, then be approached by a potential enemy ship.

I came here to say this. I’m not one of the “Discovery is terrible” crowd, because it isn’t, and while I sometimes feel that the “Burnham saves the universe” stuff is a bit much, I’ve never been one of those to complain about it. But here…the episode was good, I liked it, and then a little while after I was done I went, “Wait…they couldn’t even get the ship off the ground without Burnham? Come on.”

I agree Nachum.

I found Burnham coming in as the cavalry to save the day in this episode worked well, but I hope that the showrunners can avoid force-fitting Burnham as only one capable of resolving any and every complication.

As we teach our children, you don’t need to push everyone down around someone to raise someone up. That’s not who SMG is, or Burnham as a character is, so the writers shouldn’t force fit that.

We have loved hero leads in Trek – Janeway, Sisko, and Picard – without them solving every single problem. Trek isn’t just about found family, it’s about an aspirational model of teamwork.

I don’t think that there has been a top-of-the-call sheet character since Jim Kirk in TOS that had to be the solution to every single dramatic complication.

And that is one of the aspects of TOS that makes it one the series that I rewatch least.

The other is Enterprise. In fact, someone else on this board named the problem with Burnham “Archer Syndrome” and it’s a good fit. Archer in Enterprise didn’t always save the day in every single episode, but he was the one to save civilization, again and again. Making him the great founder of the Federation etc. really was a force fit.

Unlike Shatner or even Scott Baluka, SMG is by all accounts not pushing for this herself and is a wonderful chef-de-compagnie that encourages all the actors to feel a part of the ensemble, without hierarchy. That is not how her character is written though.

I very much liked Burnham in season one, and was caught up in her journey. I’m rewatching S1 in the broadcast version now and feel the same way.

I had less empathy for her as S2 went on and she showed herself to be self-absorbed and not taking care of those she served with. This was particularly unbearable as she ignored Nhan in Project Daedulus and refused to let her mother depart in Perpetual Infinity (to what would logically be her mother’s death traveling in a time wormhole outside the suit).

I’m hoping that Burnham is permitted to evolve back into someone who I can respect and connect with. I’m cautiously optimistic, but not yet convinced.

Well said on all counts.

Nice to be back on the ship again. The production values are simply amazing.

It is amazing what special effects can be done on television budget now, and the visual effects for this season were done from home due to quarantine.

In the past, movies’ advantages over film was due to having a bigger budget for effects (like the jump from TOS sets and effects to Star Trek the Motion Picture sets and effects). But modern CGI techniques for tv have basically closed the gap (just compare a Discovery or a Picard episode with, say, a TOS movie). Especially with the hit the movie industry has been taking with the closure of theaters, it’s hard to see how the movie business will adapt with the competition from tv.

You say “television budget”, but keep in mind Disco’s budget is way up there at the high end. Not exactly an “average” TV budget. I could be wrong (and somebody correct me if they have a better grasp of inflation), but the TNG and DS9 budgets were the equivalent of about $3m today

Also keep in mind that there are only 13 episodes here. Most streaming shows only have 10. So they can budget more for production.

But again, the problem with STD was never really the quality of the production. That is pretty much all top notch. The problem was the bad writing and weak characters more than anything else. And to a lesser extent, failure to capture the era they were in.

Don’t forget the inconsistency, above all. This week’s episode and last week’s were so vastly different, they should be from different series – but they were even helmed by the same director!

What worries me is which type of Discovery we will see for the rest of the season, and whether, like last season’s “Eden”, this episode was actually the outlier, the sole bone for the legacy fans, and the rest is more over-the-top, over-emoting soap opera sprinkled with generic but violent action.

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

Like a lot of you, not to hip on “Space Hitler.” Georgiou deserves better writing. Perhaps just a one-off over her distress of wanting to find Michael. I did notice in the preview, Georgiou had a new cool delta shield that no one else has. Looks like it is circled with stars or a leaf, need to rewatch it. I’m sure someone else here has figured out what it is. Too much cliche Western in space, but GR did call it a wagon train to the starts. Discovery now fits this better then any other show since TOS.

TNG tried it, but by that time, the UFP and Star Fleet had become too burreaucratic and developed with what seemed to be less uncharted territory. Discovery opens this all back up again. Hopefully they do not squander it.

Last edited 1 month ago by Zuko

That is the Admirals badge – like Cornwell had last season.

Someone is going to promote Georgiou to Admiral…

You are right that Discovery can now capture that feel better than any other series since TOS, where Kirk often ventured beyond the reach and technological power of the Federation. I consider that a good thing!

Georgiou deserves to have been left in the Mirror Universe and never heard from again.

Nah, why burden them with her? Just drop her into a sun with a cheery wave.

Last edited 1 month ago by Total-Trekkie2

I didn’t mind the western stuff. I wouldn’t like it to be a regular thing, but for a minor one off villain to be an evil space cowboy in a space western setting was kind of fun.

I figured the universe had to have regressed technologically in some sense. It’s really hard to present a future THAT far removed. Usually things set that far forward involve society’s regressing in some say. The main reason for that is to get around imagining life 900 years from now.

I dont mind things having regressed or stagnated given the backstory, but they should be DIFFERENT in almost every regard. In its basics, a chair is still a chair in a thousand years same as a thousand years before but it should NOT look like it just came from the camping section of Walmart! Same for the hip designer brand leather clothing. Discovery may have near unlimited production budget, but still, it often comes across as uninspired and lazy. That’s something no money in the world can buy.

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

But even in the 23rd and 24th century we saw PLENTY of places that looked pretty down trodden. TOS visited many colonies at the height of Federation power and it was a lot of wood sheds and basic equipment that was supposed to be 300 years into the future. In the TNG era, you saw less of that but they would still travel to planets where they weren’t as technically advanced as the Federation.

So I don’t see this as a big deal because A. we are clearly seeing less developed planets in general and B. I imagine after a century of the Federation gone and not a lot of space travel or trade, then things will just fall apart.

Tiger, I pointed out this is not about places looking down-trodden, but recognizably contemporary despite being set nearly 1200 (!) years from us. And I think comparing this to TOS is unfair given it was produced 50 years ago on a budget that is dwarfed by contemporary fan film productions. Discovery always prides itself with having cutting edge production facilities including 3D printing and real metal sets, and then they come up with THIS, that looks like any other Trek and makes you bring up TOS comparisons. This does not put Discovery production design in a good light.

As always, not the budget but imagination is the limit, and as I expected 1000 years is a tall order for these people, who mostly think of future in technological and political terms. It’s not even about rational “correctness” (of course it’s all a projection) but using producer’s own vernacular, the FEEL of the surroundings should be different from last season, or any other Trek. Ironically, like in last weeks episode, they managed to change the feel as Trek to almost unrecognizable, but not so much the set designs!

And yes, 250 years to TOS IS different compared to 1200 years to this future. 1750 is recognizable to us because it was the beginning of the modern age – age of discovery, age of reason, scientific method, medical revolution, early industrialization with steam engine etc. The 11th century? Everything is different! So they are overshooting where they shouldn’t, such as with Burnham’s soap opera (this has nothing to do with the future) and holding back to established patterns where it isn’t necessary. It’s possible to tell a Trek story in an unrecognizable surrounding, and thats what we can relate to.

When they come to Earth at last, I hope and expect it looks alien to them, the only home left being Discovery. Because after a millennium, it should!

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

OK, I understand your point on some of it. Yes, if this is what the entire season looks like and every planet we go to (isn’t it crazy though Discovery has managed to go to more NEW planets in the first two episodes of this season than all of season one lol. Not kidding, that is sadly true) was like this, OK, I would agree completely.

I just think what they are doing is letting us know just how bad things have gotten on former Federation worlds (and I don’t know if the first episode made it clear that planet was Federation but assume it was) and that things are dire. I get your point, you just think they are kind of cheapening out or not being as imaginative, or both, but I think it’s just too early to say either way.

And I don’t think it’s unfair to compare TOS because TOS always made it clear that most colonies WEREN’T as advance as Federation worlds, so that was OK. Yes that was probably because they just didn’t have the money or time to show these super advance places but that made it part of canon. We were always suppose to believe Earth itself was this super advanced highly technological and very developed planet, we just never saw it lol. I don’t want to say UTOPIA, but probably as close to it as you could get to it at the time.

And 24th century did the same thing. Yes most colonies looked a little nicer but you still had places like that dreaded episode Up the Long Ladder with the Irish colony that felt it was 19th century and not the 24th lol. Look at the Maquis colonies in the Cardassian territory in TNG and DS9. Did any of those places look like they were in a utopic super advanced 24th century? No, they looked just as basic and primitive in places you can find on Earth today and they were Federation colonies for decades.

Yes, a few centuries is still different from a thousand years but again we have to take into account what has happened plus just being on mostly barren worlds. Now if get to Earth (YAY) and it too look like it regressed then yeah I will call it out too. But so far we haven’t seen much of anything to show what the 32nd century looks like outside a few things.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

VS, the thing is, we do have ordinary chairs and stools in common use that still look pretty much like they did in the medieval era.

But we also have things in use that are radically different in design and function and made with new materials that did not exist then.

We also have things that look like things of long ago but are made with completely different materials.

And we’ve seen this kid of mix already in the production design.

Please have a google search for 11th century chairs and you will see they were structurally different (horizontal struts connecting the legs). We also need to make sure we don’t compare apples and oranges – nice chairs of today’s quality were reserved for kings and gentry, and those are the chairs that survived. The working class (peasantry) probably had no chairs at all or so flimsy they did not survive. So it’s always these hugr socioeconomic changes that drive changes in people’s living spaces as well. So if Kurtzman writes up these huge changes for Discovery, they should havr an impact on the rest too. And you know my real gripe is really about the costumes and not the chairs. I know you like their work in seasons 1 and 2 but we really need to judge season 3 on its own given it’s 1000 years, not 250 years, ahead.

Chairs with horizontal struts?

I’ve seen a lot of those in use in my time.

On the costumes, let’s keep in mind that Tilly and Saru would be wearing something they brought with them.

For the others, let’s see what kind of variety we get across this season shall we?

Did you think it was inappropriate that gangster dress was used in “A Piece of the Action” in TOS. (I didn’t like it, but for many it’s a feature not a bug.)

Gersha Phillips has produced very innovative costumes in previous seasons — to the point where people criticized the Klingon dress since it was out of step with previous shows. She can do it, but should she do it every episode.

You must be referring to those chairs with sleigh-like steel bottoms? I have never seen wood chairs like those depicted, with very low but not floor-level struts. As for the costumes, I’m dismayed by the endless contemporary brown and black leather coats that pop up in both Picard and Discovery (not the crew, but the future characters!) It’s like no different fashions and color schemes exist anymore throughout history. Looking at medieval fashion, the difference is more than apparent.

So my larger point is that after 1000 years of upheavals and change, almost everything should be different to make us believe in the enormous time gap, and I don’t think there’s really an argument against that. For prequel Discovery, the knock out test was always “could this design be included in a 24th century show and still be believable” and for future Discovery, it’s the same (if the answer is yes, the creators have failed). I think thats doubly true if, as you have hinted at, this future is largely alien-shaped and the people of Earth have recused themselves from the Federation.

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

Me? I enjoyed part 2…happy to see Saru in charge and that Michael found them…as for the saloon western vibe? Specter of the Gun came to mind….good TOS memories there.
Wow, Some of you people complain about every little nit picky thing. If you dislike the episodes so much why are you watching?

I’ve stuck with it because I do like a lot of it, and I want it to be better. I loved last week’s episode, and watched it twice. This one, eh, not my favorite. Space Hitler needs to be gone. If it hadn’t been for her, I probably would have liked this one a lot better too.

Thanks for saying this Total-Trekkie2.

A good number of us engage on this board because we want the new Trek series to continue to improve. We don’t often say that, but hearing that from posters on this board was one of the things that moved me from lurking to actively participating.

We do see that Kurtzman in particular scans all the boards for fan reaction in addition to what ever metrics they have.

Kurtzman says he pays attention when a point is shared by multiple people posting. And we see that the shows have been evolving in response to fan concerns.

So, constructive if critical points are all part of the process.

For the same reason we watched the first two seasons of TNG and DS9 and ENT. We’re desperately hoping the show will find its space legs. It ain’t there yet, but there are those who will quit watching in disgust, and those who will keep watching and whine. I happen to be one of the latter, but hope springs eternal.

I’ve never been a Michael hater like a subset of fans are, but it was actually quite nice not having her in this episode (sort of her brief appearance at the end). Without her presence it seemed to free up the writers and allowed them to explore some of the side characters (I.e. the woefully underdeveloped bridge crew). Hopefully, now that Michael is back, the writers can do a better job of not constantly making her the center of attention.

I liked this episode. I mean I liked it the first time I saw it, during the opening chapter of Mass Effect: Andromeda.

  • Ships supposed to arrive at the same time but end up with one taking substantially longer than the other.
  • Seeming disruption to someones’ neural implant after arrival.
  • A devastated planet where someone points out that bits of said planet are floating.
  • Comment about atmospheric engineering.
  • Vague sort of western frontier theme to it (saloon, with saloon doors and a villain whose boots might as well have had spurs on them.)

Anyhoodles, I really did enjoy it though. I did wonder if they were going to drag out the separation of Burnham from the rest of the crew for a few episodes more, but apparently not.

Thought the Coridanite makeup was a bit below what I’ve come to expect as the usually high standard from this show, especially around the mouths.

I wonder if a problem with Detmers’ augmentation might be an excuse for them to have her be treated by 32nd century medicine and have it removed, because I can’t imagine wearing a single coloured contact lense for extended periods can be very comfortable or healthy for Emily Coutts?

Last edited 1 month ago by Mike

Don’t forget the bonus feature of Expanse-inspired “pidgin”, Inyalowda.

This episode did a fantastic job giving so many of its characters a clear voice and roll in this new world. We finally get to concentrate and build out the crew which finally feels well rounded. Doug Jones has given Saru the perfect voice and the writers have done a superb job writing these character moments. More importantly there is a refreshing mix of humor and action. Well directed, edited, and acted. The plot is simple and the action doesn’t overwhelm. It really feels like they learned how to focus on the people, finally. By Discovery standards, this is a bottle show. And they used the Iceland location beautifully, it has gone a long way to establish this as a truly strange new alien future, Western tropes not withstanding.

Last edited 1 month ago by Michael K

I saw nothing worth getting all het up over. So far, the only thing new about this season is the year. It’s still another episode of “Star Trek: Burnham Saves the Day”. Wow…. what a slap in the face to Saru, Tilly, and the others – 48 minutes worth of work, only to HAVE to be saved by Burnham in the end. Come on, “Discovery” – you need to try harder and do better!

But I suppose I should just shut up – I’ll be back next Thursday to watch the next one, and the next one, and the next one after that. I just feel let down, defeated, and disappointed. Who knows. Maybe Burnham will show up and save the day for me.

Great episode, but I just wish the writers and actors would get a better handle on how they’re characterizing Georgiou and Tilly. This season and last, both characters have been broadly written and acted; they’re inconsistent and all over the place. It’s really the only thing I don’t like about the show, as it’s otherwise excellent. I’d honestly be OK with both being written out, though I know that Georgiou will be around for at least this season and Tilly is in for the long-haul.

Georgiou is getting her own show. I don’t want to see her ever again on Discovery.

I’ll believe it when I see the trailer and never watch the show.

How long is the Episode?

Ten letters.

HA!

F**ck You

LOL calm down, it was a joke. A pretty clever one.

And the episode is 53 minutes long.

wow, really????? and I just said it’s 10 letters and one eroteme!, not what you asked but 11 characters.

LOL. OK, calm down, Simpsons Comic Book Guy.

10 letters and one eroteme!

Well, turns out the premier was the better of the two. Go figure. That episode was crafted decently if not filled with bad plotting. This one was just… Ugh.

I’m SO tired of hearing any variation of the “We are Star Fleet” drivel. Tired of hearing about ideals and whatnot. The point can be made without being so overt or ‘in your fact’. Kirk managed to do it. Even Picard managed to do it mainly resorting to it as somewhat of a last ditch attempt to reach someone.

And man… Every scene Georgeau was in brought the episode to a grinding halt. I cannot tell you what a huge mistake this character is. She brings nothing to the table except groans and facepalms.

On the plus side there were not as many overt plotting errors so at least that. But the first episode was more fun to watch.

And the last comment… This episode had stronger laughs in it than any episode of LDX. Hear that, Mike McMahon? You need to do better!

Yeah this episode was so meh. The premiere was more enjoyable. I don’t always agreed with you but you’re right there.

Lower Decks is really funny!

Last edited 1 month ago by Faze Ninja

“This episode had stronger laughs in it than any episode of LDX.”

I noticed that too! The humour flowed naturally from the characters and was mostly situational, not in the face. Well paced and kind of understated like most of the episode. Again, it’s incredible this is the same director as last week’s, and in fact, most episodes that negatively stood out as frenetic action shlock!

So you’ve seen LDs now VS?

Well, it just goes to show that not everyone has the same sense of humour.

Not yet TG47! I’m going by the trailers and so called laugh lines in TM reviews, both of which SHOULD represent the mosf funny parts. But frankly I was more commending Discovery’s understated humour here (as was the whole episode) rather than dissing LDS, I’ll be reserving judgment and I also don’t require it to be that super funny comedy to be a success, especially in light of other series carrying on the proud legacy of TNG right now!

And don’t get me wrong here… LDX didn’t need to be a ‘laugh-a-minute’ riot. If it had a few good chuckles each week that would have garnered an above average review from yours truly. And then that downfall meant all the other things, like the characters and plots were placed under greater scrutiny. It all goes back to the lack of laughs.

I don’t disagree with you too much over the episode, especially with Georgiou. I DO disagree about LDS being less funny, but OK.

I also admit, the ‘we are Starfleet’ stuff does get a bit much sometimes, but I guess the circumstance calls for it. And Saru seems to be the most gung-ho about it, but considering what his life was like before, I can understand.

This show has no idea what it wants to be. Season 1 was gritty and dystopian, season 2 was still kind of grim but they tried desperately to inject some Trek optimism in with Saru’s nauseatingly ham-fisted “We are STARFLEET” speeches. Sad to see the trend continue. The writing’s a mess, and I still don’t care about any of these bland, unlikeable characters.

How would you know this if you haven’t watched the episode like you where saying to NC Trekker further below this thread?

again if your gonna troll at least do it right.

I agree with you, but it’s close. Episode one had its’ flaws.. Why destroy the time suit? It might be useful. It probably had a useful energy source. I know they claimed it would be a one way trip, but supposidely it sent up another signal to let everyone know where she was, so it still had power.

Also, since the plan all a long was for her to send another signal (2 actually) to let Disco and Spock know where she is, why a big surprise Disco isn’t with her? Thinking about that a little deeper, if she sent a signal to spock letting her know she was safe, didn’t she have to go back in time to do that?

I do like the character development in ep.2, but agree Georgiou is over the top, but compare her to the mirror Kira… They need to decide of Georgiou is an angry surburban mom missing her kid who is away at college, or a crazed corporate hack desparate for power. You always knew where Mirror Kira was coming from. In the end, they are going to have to make her the less angry surburban mom to carry her own trek show. If not, they might as well have kept Leland alive as the corporate hack.

Either way, having gooey Leland on your shoes, then having someone from the lower decks (Gene Hazmat) clening up said goo seemed out of place and gratutious. With all that high tech and sensitive equipment, are they really using a shovel from home depot to clean up the mess? Don’t they have something more techy? Once they are done, Gene is still going to need the garden hose to wash down everything!!

Kira was complex and had her issues. It took a little time to dive into them but they were there. MU Georgeau is a one dimensional cartoon on par with Snidely Whiplash. How much depth really is there? None so far. With respect I honestly don’t think Kira is a fair comparison.

I found the focus on Leland’s grey remains fairly gratuitous as well, and it made me wonder if they have taken sufficient care.

This episode is so boring. The plot was terrible and the characters are annoying.

Georgiou is one unnecessary character. She wasn’t doing anything right.

The premiere was more compelling to watch.

You can do better than that!

Wow, I didn’t find it boring at all.

Action is not equal to plot for me.

Is it possible that Michael is Captain next week and we get a flashback to Pike making her captain “if she returns”?

My minor quibble of the week is with both Part 1 and Part 2 for making people/ships come out of wormholes right on top of a planet. Space is mostly empty, that is why it is called “space” after all. It is something like 99.999999999% empty. The odds against not one but two different trajectories/time scales would bring people out right in the gravity well of a planet (and they apparently aren’t anywhere near Terralysium, so this could be absolutely anywhere) are, well, astronomical.

I was about to dismiss this thinking maybe the planetary gravity well might have acted like a magnet pulling the exit point of the wormhole towards it. But then I considered that there are MUCH more massive stellar bodies like black holes and even larger planets or stars that would have pulled it more if that were the case. So yeah, doesn’t really make any sense. The ONLY thing I can think of is that the suit’s computer was actively trying to steer the wormhole towards Terralysium, and perhaps got scrambled so it found a ‘best fit’. Still doesn’t really make sense for Discovery to come out at a different planet than Michael though.

Oh shoot. The season started already? Are they still in the 32nd century?

Good. Keep them there.

Back to my DS9 re-runs.

Lemme know when they fire Kurtzman.

Not in the next 7 years, mate! Until then, it’s presumably more Pew-Pew-Pew and less PewdiePicard ;)

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

LOL, savage!

Pretty much with you, there.

I found it OK, not bad, but nothing special. I did like the scenes on the ship and catching up to where everyone was but outside of Detmer and the back and forth stuff between Hugh, Culber and Reno it was really not much happening. But it is nice to see the bridge crew just being able to be a bit more human and feeling like regular people. I think they will be utilized a lot more this season; especially being a much smaller cast now.

The stuff with Saru and Tilly in the bar was fine but it just felt like filler with Zareth and his merry band of assholes UNLESS we are going to see these guys again. But basically they were there to out the Discovery as time travelers, lots of threats, a small fight and that was it.

And what bothers me about stories like this is when the main characters ask the most bare minimum questions EVER to keep the mystery going. I kind of could understand it when Saru and Tilly were trying to stay undercover, but once the secret was out, how are you just asking what planet you’re on??? You just jump 930 years into the future, one guy hinted the Federation is dead, another is going on about the lack of dilithium, ASK some damn questions!!! “What’s this about the Federation now?” “How come there are no other ships around?” “BTW, can you tell us where we are and can tell us how to get to this other place we’re looking for? We’re sort of new around here.” Instead, take their part and leave as if they just stopped for gas.

Anyway, nothing ‘bad’ abut the episode overall, just felt kind of ‘there’ until the last minute when not surprising Burnham showed up. Next weeks looks REALLY good though.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

Personally I thought this one was okay and I loved seeing the crew and the various character dynamics, but the premiere was better in many ways. Also impressed with how quickly the story is moving along. A lot has happened in just 2 episodes.
Yeah I just saw the short trailer that was on the CBSAA stream. Without giving away any spoilers for those who choose not to watch the previews, it does look intriguing for sure! One thing I have to admit, for the 2nd week in a row, I can’t wait to see what happens next week.

Last edited 1 month ago by DeanH

Yeah as I said, I thought it was fine, but nothing amazing. I can’t tell you why (well I can lol just not everyone will agree) but I LOVED last weeks episode so much. All said and done not a lot happened there story wise but I just like how it set everything up. Booker was great from the get go and made Burnham a bit more fun to be around. It wasn’t perfect but I loved how it set everything up for this era.

This episode kind of did the same, just from the crew’s advantage point. They too fell to some strange planet, met a few of the locals and learned things were not as great as when they left. But it didn’t present anything different from what we saw a week ago either. We saw more shady couriers and another world that has been affected by the Burn but it didn’t really shed light on anything different. And that’s OK of course, I’m not saying every episode you have to get some new crazy twist, etc, that was sort of DIS problem in its first season, it was that all the time. But the story itself just didn’t feel all the riveting I guess.

But I did like seeing a lot of the old characters and clearly they are hinting something is wrong with Detmer. So its nice they may really focus on the bridge crew, FINALLY. I mean they said that last season, but outside of getting a few more lines and scenes they really didn’t focus on them that much. When they finally gave Ariam a back story they killed her off in the same episode. So I’m hoping they are going to really dive into those characters now that there is no more Spock, Sarek, Pike, etc there to focus on.

And I also agree, generally the first two episodes has gotten me excited and next week looks even better! I’m shocked we’re going to Earth so quickly. Honestly I thought they were going to avoid seeing that for awhile, maybe not even get to it at all this season. So it’s really exciting to see what it will be like now so soon.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

I think clearly we have different views on what is essential and what is a no-go for a Trek episode ;) Although there is an intersection sometimes, even on Discovery! I recognize this epsiode was nothing amazing and merely decent by Classic Trek standards, but last week in particular violated so many red lines that this week just feels like a breath of fresh air and return to Trek :)

To me Kurtzman Trek in Picard and Discovery are like an abusive relationship – after you regularly get a fist slammed into your face such as with last week’s emotional crapfest or Picardian eyeball gourging, even the strictly average and utterly normal feels like a return to the good old times! Ah, hope at last! :)

And yeah, in this episode there were overall five minutes of screen time of Space Hitler doing her Space Hitler thing and St. Michael saving the day completely unearned that put a wrinkle on it, but that does not invalidate the other 40 minutes to me. Last week, as we discussed, this was the other way round!

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

As I said, last week wasn’t perfect of course. Yes it did things I didn’t like or agree with either. I didn’t like how Burnham was just mowing down everyone after her, but yes she was defending herself. But I think for a lot of people, the last few minutes of last week just made it feel like we were back in traditional Star Trek territory again. It gave me a lump in my throat.

And as I also said I didn’t hate this episode or anything, it was fine, it was just no moment like that in it. It was basically just meant to catch up to the crew and how they dealt with the initial crash. I certainly liked the character moments with Reno, Stamets, etc but nothing REALLY happened on the ship itself. We saw them trying to repair it obviously but that was basically it. And then they threw in the whole ice being a parasite thing but as shown nothing came of it once Burnham showed up and just pulled them out.

The stuff in the bar was fine, but again just kind of telling us stuff we already knew last episode. I did like when Georgiou showed up and basically saved them although it was odd how Zareh had no problem killing one guy dead but then with Georgiou he just kind of stunned her a few times. That was plot armor in every sense of the word. ;)

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

To be fair APART from that standout scene not much was happening in last week’s episode either, it was a very generic and similiar “barter what we have for what we need” action plot. What last week didn’t have is all the crew character beats, the humour, and most importantly the central Trekkian dilemma which was not between crew and baddie of the week but Saru and Georgiou : are we going to abandon our principles now that we are in a dark lawless future, or hold on to them? As I mentioned this didnt entirely work part of it being not a fellow ranking officer with a different pov but freaking Space Hitler Saru was sparring with but to me the intention was good. I had actually read the entire plot beforehand and expected not to like this episode based on “not much happening” but for once on screen the sum seemed to be bigger than the parts!

As I said in my response to DeanH, I agree not a lot happened the first episode either, BUT being the first episode we did learn things what the Burn was, state of Starfleet, etc. And was introduced to Booker who I liked a lot. Look, I’ll put it this way, if this episode was the first of the season and “That Hope is You” came out this week, maybe I would feel a bit different about it. I just felt pretty much everything we got or learned in this episode was basically said in the last one and obviously with less detail. I liked the stuff on the ship, it just wasn’t really a lot going on there either outside of Statements really really really wanting to help out.

And for me, what I liked about last week episode is that it was fun and different to just see one character out of their element and completely away from their crew. Even though Star Trek has 8,000 episodes and movies, this was literally the first time, that I can recall anyway, we had just had a main character for completely one episode alone and no one else. I thought that was cool. But yes I KNOW how most people view Burnham around here lol. But as you probably know, I don’t have the same issues with her but yeah she can be improved as a character. But hey I love all of the main characters, even Archer, never had a single issue with him, so that’s my flaw. ;)

But I get your point. You just prefer to see the crew together. I do too, but I knew they were going so up eventually so I was good with it. ;)

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

There is one TNG episode, Birthright Part 2, where Worf is on his own on a Romulan POW colony moon.

In Birthright Part 1, much of the story takes place with the Enterprise-D at DS9, while Worf goes off on his own mission and ends up on this Romulan moon with Klingon POWs that have been there since the Khitomer attack.

In Part 2, the entire episode focuses on Worf’s encouragement of the young Klingons born and raised in camp to embrace their heritage, while at the same time having complex romantic feelings for a half-Klingon half-Romulan young woman Ba’el who is the daughter of the POW camp commander.

While Worf was able to secretly foster and integrate some of the young Klingons back into Klingon society, at that time there was no society outside that POW camp where Ba’el could be accepted.

If there is a character that Picard should pick-up and explore, she’s definitely one.

Actually TG47, you do see scenes of the Enterprise crew in Birthright Part 2. And there are plenty of episodes in Trek you see a character doing a solo mission or lost. I mean in ‘That Hope is You’ this is the first time in Star Trek where we never see anyone else from the main cast except one character. That’s never been attempted before until now.

And I guess how successful it was depends on your view of Burnham in general. I have had issues with her like others but always generally liked her so I thought it worked well. Others maybe not so much.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

I’m caught a few spoilers too, and had the same experience: the episode really worked well, and was more than the sum of its parts.

And I do think we need to really underscore that point — THE SUM WAS MORE THAN iTS PARTS — because that has been a problem in both Discovery’s previous seasons and in Picard.

I hope that this is the mark of a writers room that’s pulling together and knows where they want to take the narrative and the characters. It seems to be a very positive signal of greater coherence to come.

I totally agree with you! A big problem of Discovery, especially in the middle part of season 2 was so many episodes were LESS than the sum of its parts, just a disjointed mess of character scenes and special effects orgies but without an effective narrative structure. I remember many of those were helmed by this director so it seems its primarily a writing problem indeed (I’m also aware TV directors have much less power and control than their movie counterparts so in the end this also falls back on Kurtzman & Co.)!

I think it’s too early yet to say which course season 3 will take and if they have learned their lesson – follow the retreat to action & shallowness in episode 1 or this improved character piece in episode 2. We were much at the same place in season 2 after “Eden” and it turned out that was the only classic episode (safe for the Talos episode, maybe). So I’m keeping my fingers crossed but reserving judgment for now!

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

I’m itching to discuss that trailer too.

Looking forward to the press stills for the next episode.

I really, really, really hope the whole point of doing the Earth episode next week is to let the crew (and us) fall into the familiarity trap – to lure us with Earth but serve us essentially an alien planet! Unlike in previous seasons, “bait and switch” would make sense and be a strong dramatic narrative device for once! I wonder if that is the point of the tree scene from the previews (the tree being the only familiar element left).

Are we really certain that this is the return to Earth episode?

I’m parsed things differently: in 303, it is revealed that “people of Earth” aren’t generally among those holding up what remains of the Federation; in later episodes Discovery will be visiting Earth and confronted with a regime that doesn’t represent Federation values.

Ahhhhh I see! That would be even more radical and painful, indeed (and explain the emergence of a Pidgin generally not compromised of or descended from English). Where did they write about these two important clues? I seem to have missed those spoilers.

Personally I’m fine with them going full Andromeda now that they can’t mess up our beloved 23rd and 24th centuries and existing canon anymore. They are basically in the same place as the Kelvin movies now with their own, separate part of Trek reality, only I didnt care about most of the choices in those movies, least of all the destruction of Vulcan! So it still comes down to the basic question, will what they write appeal to Trek fans, or not.

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

A few clues that I picked up:

– humans are not automatically associated with the Federation in either 301 or 302, and others are generally hostile to them;

– we’ve seen both Andorians and humans joining in the Orion Syndicate’s network of couriers;

– logically, 303 is when the crew gets to reunite and catch up with Burnham, mixing in a trip to Earth seems premature as its always a special case in Star Trek;

– Discovery may stand out not only as a super antique but also as a Federation ship that is largely crewed by humans.

We’ve been told in panels that we can’t assume that the founding species/planets are part of the Federation anymore.

The most radical way to turn humanocentric Federation expectations on their head would be to have Earth be one of the planets that has retreated into itself. If that’s the case, I would find it a very compelling story.

This reminds me of some of the Remembrance Day (VE-day) memorials of my childhood where we were strongly reminded that each generation had its responsibility to uphold values and resist tyranny.

I hope other fans can get onboard with this.

Haha, Kurtzman really does think the Federation is akin to the Jedi. They’re a political entity, Alex, not the Justice League.

Thanks for the great review, Mr. Pascale; you made me laugh out loud several times. :-)

I thought this episode was beautifully done; I loved seeing Saru behaving like a real captain.

I did wonder, though, why they had Saru pause for a very long moment when the new ship showed up. There was never any chance that Saru was going to shoot without trying to talk first, so why did he seem like he didn’t know what to do? I suppose maybe the writers and/or the director thought a long pause would be dramatic, but to me, it seemed as if it undermined how wonderfully decisive and in control Saru had been during the rest of the episode.

When Georgiou showed up and saved Saru and Tilly from the bad guys, I thought, “They really need somebody who has Georgiou’s ability to confuse the enemy with her words and to take the enemy down with her fists and feet when the words don’t work, but who is guided by Saru’s morality. And then I slapped myself in the head and said, “Duh, you’ve just described Jim Kirk!” :-)

I didn’t like that long pause. It was obviously done for dramatic purposes. But the fact is when they said they were being hailed and he paused, my first thought was “Answer the damn hail! It’s Burnham!”

It should’ve been Riker. ;D

Freakin’ Timetravellin’ Riker with a fuzzy beard from Parallels!

… just appearing for serving them his famous Pizza! Riker-Pizza-Express delivers anywhere and anytime including time travel!

…. time travelling through a special Star Gate. Let’s call it the Pizza Gate (cough)!

He’s a well-traveled guy. :-)

No, I didn’t like it, either. Someone on the Trek Core site said he thought the pause was to remind us that Federation values are a choice we make, not something automatic. I’m a big believer in the morality play aspect of Star Trek, but I still didn’t like the pause, because I thought it undermined the character of Saru.

I thought Sonequa Martin-Green was very different in that last shot than she’d ever been before, and I’m not talking about the hair. :-) She seemed so much warmer and more personable; I hope that’s the Burnham we’ll get from now on…

For me the pause undercut Saru’s authority. Like he didn’t know what he should do when it was obvious what he should have done.

Exactly!

Let’s just say that as a dramatic beat, it didn’t work at all.

Good episode.
Where are the seatbelts?
Did that many people volunteer to leave everything behind and go to the future? Even the hazmat guy?
Stamets made the major repair using the ribbon cable from my 1994 IBM-clone PC.
Saru is inexperienced but is turning into a good leader.
Love the conflict between Saru and Georgio (the invincible).
I kind of missed Burnham.

I thought that Stamets and Reno’s attitude to the hazmat guy was fairly unforgivable for officers, regardless of their lack of social skills and self-absorbed states of physical pain.

The guy has come a millennium into the future and is cleaning up hunks of Control, and they blow him off when he tells them he has a name.

I hope he continues to snark right back at them.

But it was funny.

“I already forgot.”

Better than anything on Lower Decks, too.

Yeah I didn’t like that either. It made Reno look like an insensitive jerk . They all gave up everything and everyone they know for this brave new era and they are all that they have now. So this is the time you should make everyone feel like they are a team and part of the family, not disregard them because you outrank them.

We know they just wanted to give Reno a funny moment, but it didn’t come off well given everything.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

I’m with ML31 on this one.It was supposed to be a joke! For moral “insensitivities”, theres much worse in here, like releasing the torture-murdering baddie just like this. This is NOT the Starfleet way! Being called names is not as bad as, you know, being dead ;)

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. It just came off nasty to me.

It’s alright. We all have different red lines and perceptions of nastiness. For me its the gratious lethal violence and how careless it’s now assigned even to our supposed heroes (that goes for both Discovery and Picard).

That is true. The ship couldn’t operate for long without crew members doing the “dirty” work. No need for Stamets and Reno to act so dismissive. I had the impression at the end of season 2 that only a skeleton crew volunteered to go to the future out of love/respect for Burnham. Or just enough to fly the ship. But it seems like 2/3 of the crew came according to the review. I’m hoping they explore that a little. Not everyone is going to be happy in the future, some might go rogue when they find out about the burn etc.

BTW, what is Hazmat guy Gene’s last name?

Yes… My impression was that only a handful of crew stayed with the ship. I was a little surprised to see what looked like a full complement remained.

I’ve not seen the episode, was the hazmat guy a rarely-spotted straight white male? If so, that explains why the characters/writers were rude to him *rolls eyes* #CBSTrek.

Last edited 1 month ago by Steve

where you not replying to a comment going on about how the writing in this episode was still a mess Steve?

How would you not know unless you watched 42 minutes within the 2 minutes you posted this comment.

If your gonna troll at least do it right.

Last edited 1 month ago by Ultimateworf

^^ This.

Good spotting Ultimateworf!

Steve, if you’re going to drop into troll, do remember what you’ve already posted LOL.

Last edited 1 month ago by TG47

Now that Steve has weighed in about his displeasure about the hazmat guy being insulted, I take back what I said. I now find it hilarious as hell and hope it’s a recurring joke between him and Reno…weekly!

Last edited 1 month ago by Tiger2

I adore Michelle Yeoh. Ever since I saw Tomorrow Never Dies and Supercop, I ate up everything she’s done. She’s an incredible action star, but also a subtle, reassuring, strong and gentle screen presence, and a wonderful actress through it all. Never did I imagine she would be feature in a big budget Star Trek series.

But I have so many problems with Mirror Georgiou. She is not being thoughtfully written. She’s just there for one-liners and an excuse to behave badly or kick some butts. There’s no discernible arc to her. She is not thawing out to see the advantages of being compassionate and empathetic. She’s not conflicted with any guilt for living a life where she terrorized and murdered. Her only empathy is in her connection to Burnham, and even that is not fleshed out very well.

We’ve seen a character come in hot with no remorse or regard for rules, who participated in murder and ruffled feathers: Seven of Nine. But she had a steady and compelling arc where she embraced and learned to understand the great things humanity is capable of. It was a little preachy and obvious sometimes, but very successful, and so very Star Trek. It’s a shame Yeoh is being wasted in a listless role that didn’t need to be so.

Very thoughtful comment. The difference between Space Hitler and Seven of Nine: the former acted individually with full intention and free will as far as biology allows, while the latter was forced into participation as part of a collective – very different. The writers backed themselves into a corner with Georgiou and there’s no way out that safe for a redemption death (which is what would happen in a Hollywood movie).

But I noticed time and again the writers of this show are incapable of such moral nuance, as this week’s ending shows : the guy who just murdered the miner’s own brother in the most gruesome fashion since the Varon-T disruptor gets just let go by that very miner, even with a ration pack! Is that believable and JUST? No trial, no punishment, no redemption? I know Saru was making a point to Georgiou but it all comes off as very inconsistent and even hypocritical when at other times (such as last week) phasers are set to “blow to pieces” with people who havent done half as wrong as Mr. Gunslinger.

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

Space Hitler is the one big stain on this show. I like Yeoh too. She was literally the first person we heard announced for this show and I was super excited hearing the news. Like you I seen a few of her Hong Kong movies and of course the bigger mainstream stuff like Tomorrow Never Dies and Hidden Dragon, Crouching Tiger. And she was great as Prime Georgiou, the two episodes we got of her anyway.

But the former fascist emperor turned PU Section 31 operative just feels so forced. All of this was done to give Yeoh her own show but even now, no one seems all that excited about it and we had an entire season of MU Georgiou to get use to. And I don’t think she changed many minds. In fact I think it went the opposite way. No wonder her Section 31 show now feels much more on the back burner because clearly they know fans are not eating up the idea and clearly Strange New Worlds took its place in the production line up.

All that said, I’m still willing to see if a S31 show happens, what they will do with it. I’m watching no matter what so yeah lol. But if they decided to just cancel it, I doubt many will lose any sleep over it.

The problem is that they killed off Capt. Georgiou in the series premiere. As with Kirk in Generations, if they wanted to keep Michelle Yeoh involved in Star Trek, they shouldn’t have done that. (Indeed, for a while, I thought they were keeping Georgiou’s story ambiguous, since they didn’t actually show her corpse.) Regardless, as with Cumberbatch playing Khan in STID, the character simply doesn’t work, regardless of the quality of the actor.

This. Yes. If they really were super thrilled with have Yeoh it made no sense to kill her off unless it was just a rouse. Which it didn’t end up being. Quite frankly, having Prime Georgeau show up at the end of Season 1 would have been a much better “twist” than Lorca being MU. Still disappointed at the tremendous waste of a potentially deep character. (eyeroll)

Another problem I’m having with Georgiou is that I’m losing track of who knows about her true nature and who doesn’t, especially because they tried pretending she was Prime Georgiou for like, an episode. So when I see her and Nhan getting along I’m left thinking, ‘does she know she’s a genocidal monster, or does she just think she’s a tough badass bitch?’ Usually when things like this are done, it’s a lot more clear-cut. Here it just feels like careless writing.

excluding the popular Pike portrayal by Anson Mount (that made him worthy of getting his own series) this was probably my favourite episode of Discovery. High praise for a number of reasons. This fit more to a format of Star Trek that I’ve been waiting for. The bridge crew got well deserved screen time instead of being the Michael Burnham show. No disrespect to Sonequa the actress, but I hate the Burnham character though I’ll admit the last episode on her own wasn’t nearly as bad as I found her in S1 & S2.. I Cant stand that fake Vulcan wannabe and hate that the show is written as though she’s the saviour and single handedly does everything so change that up and they’re golden. If they continue this new ensemble route the show may become watchable without constant moaning and eye rolling. Stand out moments from tonight’s episode are from lots of the crew including the fierce Georgiou, Saru, Jett Reno (I love her!) Detmar, and Tilly. If this is what we can expect going forward, then Discovery may have finally grown the Beard.

Last edited 1 month ago by Bryan

Is it just me, or was Voyager’s crash landing on an ice planet after it’s botched Quantum Slipstream attempt more visually impressive than Disco’s crash sequence!? And this was 22 years ago people!!

Seemed like the opening credits changed slightly from last week

Do you mean the Star Trek Discovery logo? I’ve read elsewhere that they have actually gone back and changed it in the first episode as well. So if you rewatch the season opener on All Access or Netflix now you get the new logo.
Apparently, the logo used in episode 1 was a mix between the old logo from previous seasons and the new logo used in recent marketing materials. Episode 2 finishes that transition to the new logo.

Yeah “discovery” was in the new text and “star trek” was in the old font last week

Time travel is banned, but most people that Burnham and Discovery bump into know it’s possible.

For Discovery and Burnham it’s the great secret. For 32nd century people, it’s dangerous, criminal behaviour that’s only excused by the naivety of past generations. It also doesn’t seem super rare to have people come forward in time, but Discovery may have come for exceptionally far.

I think that this is the great irony of the season, and I love how the writers are getting the humour out of this.

Some of the things that point to this:

– There is an active market in ancient tech and antiques, and not just ones that have been stashed somewhere.

– Temporal anomaly detection seems like a standard navigational feature

– Couriers infer that a ship not in the database must be a time traveler

– the guys in the bar basically test out Tilly and Saru’s knowledge of contemporary tech by their reactions, and don’t reveal the personal transporter until the crisis has past.

The other question is who enforces the temporal ban and who intervenes when ill-intentioned people come forward?

Given Georgiou’s comment about liking traversing universes, I suspect we now now what S31 will have as its primary mandate in the late 32nd century.

TG47, your interpretations are always so much richer than what the writers put on screen, and I do hope you are correct we are seeing in fact a paradigm shift regarding time travel, and other things. This is what I want to see to make the distance to TOS/TNG (which is far greater than TOS/TNG to us) poignant, and not just a number. I do hope right now like the characters, we are only seeing a vaguely familiar surface which in fact turns more and more alien (in both senses) as the season progresses and we find out more about this new world!

in that light, I like the idea of this whole new language (apparently an amalgam of various alien languages) that is often taking the place of Federation Standard/English now that the Federation has lost its primacy, and maybe this is actually the more clever route than introducing fictional changes to English. They could even credibly claim Federation Standard is a dead language now and as such has not changed anymore, same as literary Latin after the Fall of the Roman Empire (which does not explain the lack of change in the 800 years before the Burn, but, oh well…)

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

Good thoughts about linguistics VS.

It could be that the pidgin was developing for a long time, in fact it would need to have been well established before the Burn interrupted travel.

Perhaps before the temporal ban the Federation enforced some kind of stability in the common language in order to avoid greater intertemporal culture contamination.

It’s a reminder it’s not just about the Burn and the post-Burn universe, there’s more than 600 years of Trek history BEFORE that still waiting to be filled out. The only clue we got is “Temporal Wars” which at least jives with Voyager and Enterprise in that respect. But really anything could have happened, including a World War 4. We will see the effect of six centuries of history on Earth (since Picard) next week, I presume, and I hope they make it count!

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

Doesn’t make sense to me that Discovery ended up a year in the future after the wormhole had closed a year prior…and in a different region of space. Did the wormhole have multiple exits in time and space? That really wasn’t communicated well by the writers. That’s one of the things I find very frustrating about current Trek, the science is not thought out well at all.

Can we wait at least a week before making that kind of judgment?

Burnham’s surprising arrival to save Discovery and brief interaction was all we got.

Explanations and exposition of the science didn’t belong in that scene. Let’s see if it’s addressed when Burnham comes to Discovery.

Well, we kind of HAVE to wait a week. haha Given past experiences, I’m not exactly full of confidence that the writers will have an explanation grounded in science but until next week, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.

They literally covered this in episode 1, due to temporal mechanics they could arrive tomorrow, or a thousand years from now… time travel in Trek is an exercise in suspension of disbelief at all times, it always has been. Just roll with it.

Crew complement.

Actually, Discovery had 90 crew during the transit, not 88.

Zareh refers to the other 72 crew “back on their ship.”

Tilly responds that it’s 88 actually, as they count those on life support.

So, my accounting is:

There are 91 time travellers from the 22nd century.

– Burnham

– Georgiou

– 73 functioning Discovery crew (72 Zareh mentioned – Georgiou + Tilly & Saru)

– 16 Discovery crew on live support who may or may not recover

I’m recalling how the Voyager writers and producers kept a careful count of the crew who survived the series premiere, and had to track the actors also.

We may see more modest talking parts like Linus, Nihlsson, Gene the hazmat suit guy and others so that we can credibly believe that there was more than 10 people who came forward.

As I commented elsewhere, one of the big differences between Discovery’s complement and Voyager is that every single one of those crewmembers made a monumental personal choice to come forward a millennium with Discovery.

Yes, being in service means being ready to sacrifice one’s life, but this is not the same choice, and they all volunteered. Each and every one who made that transit is a hero, and each is due respect by the writers.

Last edited 1 month ago by TG47

TG47, Voyager’s crew complement wasnt so carefully monitored and one of the aspects of “bad continuity” lamented about at the time (some crazy people have counted we have seen more than 140 different people in 7 seasons, and subgroups like the number of Vulcans seemed to change according to the needs of the plot).

Like Voyager, Discovery writers now face the daunting task to make us believe in this small crew complement AND people not likely transferring on and off the ship that would normally explain why we don’t see the same people every week.

Meaning, if Discovery is to continue in this modus operandi for the next 5 seasons, we will need a much bigger supporting cast than the bridge crew, something not tried since DS9. But here’s another opportunity in this limitation, to build the rich relationships between this unique group of stranded time travellers (as you remarked).

With that, they can also build up further the “accidental” metaphor we now see: the USS Discovery is US, stranded in this new world of 2020 no matter where we come from and what we believe. We don’t have a choice to go back, only ahead, into the future!

Last edited 1 month ago by Vulcan Soul

I wonder why Rachel Ancheril now gets to be in the opening credits whereas many of the other actors who’ve been on the show longer are still stuck in the end credits? That doesn’t seem fair, especially to Emily Coutts, who the show needs to use more.

Who is Starring and Co-Starring is determined by SAG regs. It’s not like ‘this actor is clearly superior’ or ‘this character is awesome’. It’s regs and negotiations.

Absolutely on the money, mysticaldigital.

And in this case, because it’s all about their SAG rather than ACTRA (Canadian equivalent) status, there are actors like Ronnie Rowe Jr. who has carried a Canadian feature film, who has lower status than Ancheril who was a lead in a Canadian cop show that had US cable distribution.

I have noticed that all the supporting bridge crew are listed as co-stars in the end credits. If you look up the definitions for “regular”, “recurring”, “guest star”, “co-star”, etc. a co-star is described as someone only having very few lines and/or appearing only in a very limited number of scenes. They are usually only contracted for a day of shooting.

So even though the bridge characters have been with the show since the beginning they are contracted as not much more than an extra. That probably also explains why their characters haven’t been developed more. If their roles were expanded they would also have to be upgraded to guest star or even recurring status.

In contrast, Tig Notaro and Jake Weber (the baddie) were listed as guest stars. That means they were contracted to have a bigger role. Guest stars are generally paid better than co-stars.

It looks like Discovery wants to keep their Canadian “regulars” as day players. They like them enough to bring them back again and again but not enough to give them a better contract that would allow for more scenes but also cost more.

Ancheril is Canadian actually.

Having more Canadians higher on the call sheet, as heads of production design, costumes, and directing a portion of the episodes is a factor in the tax credit formulas as I understand it.

Last edited 1 month ago by TG47

Thanks. I only looked at her IMDB page and it doesn’t say where she’s from. A quick Google search could have fixed that ;-)
I was wondering if she is more famous than the bridge crew actors to justify that higher billing because I wasn’t familiar with her. Funny thing is I must have seen her on Killjoys since I watched that show but I don’t think I ever recognized her as the same person playing Nhan on Discovery.

My guess is that she’s been on more productions that have had US distribution, particularly as a star in Rookie Blue, which has given Ancheril higher status in SAG as opposed to the relative ACTRA (Canadian Guild) status.

(Interestingly, for directors there are accords between the DGC and DGA so there isn’t quite the same barrier.)

Some of Discovery’s cast have fairly deep resumes in Canada, and continue to work on other series, movies and projects across both American and Canadian productions. They all seem to be doing well.

Ronnie Rowe Jr carried a Canadian feature film, Black Cop that had a festival win. He is the lead for the first of the new Hallmark Christmas movies this year, starring with Julie Gonzales, which is a significant step for representation.

Raven Dauda has a fairly broad and deep resume in both Canadian television and stage. I first noticed her in recurrent (parent) role in the wonderful Emmy-recognized STEM kids series “Annedroids” when our kids were that age. She’s done a lot of guest star roles. She had a modest role on The Expanse season 3. She recently won a significant award for a one-woman show.

Oyin Olajedo is in her first regular role in Discovery, but since she also has a main cast role in a children’s live action sci-fi series called Endlings that will soon be shooting its third season.

Patrick Kwok-Choon seems to just be starting to get more significant roles, and has tweeted that he just completed a movie. He’s also landed being the voice for a significant car manufacturer’s ads.

The following occurs:

– Tilly again casts an annoying shadow on every scene in which she appears. She is the neediest waste of space to ever be introduced to the Star Trek universe. I can’t be the only one wishing for her to be killed off. The hatred she brings out is even more unhealthy than her increasing obesity level.

– Georgiou is toe-curlingly badly written, portrayed (if Michelle Yeoh is the best Malaysia has to offer, then they must have one dire entertainment industry) and she makes a Scooby Doo villain look more layered.

– Reno – at times an entertaining last season – has no decency whatsoever in the disgustingly, humiliating way she spoke to that member of the ship’s cleaning crew.

– Stamets has one, single facial expression for every emotion. Half way between having his member caught in zipper and being told that Santa isn’t real.

The show is back to its substandard drivel, after a promising opener last week.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sully

Pretty much agree with that, except to add that Tilly seems a very poorly developed character… I mean one minute, she’s offering lucid engineering solutions or hypotheses, the next she reverts back to that ridiculous gushy spotty-faced over-eager teenager… I mean, really? I can cope with Georgiou because it’s a one-dimensional arse-kicker in a universe where, when an apparently insurmountable obstacle appears, you just invoke some ridiculous bit of technology to solve it like ‘reconfiguring the deflector array to produce a reverse tachyon pulse’ or some such Voyager twaddle…’programmable matter? well, you’d be at least 800 years beyond the development of Holodecks in the 32nd century, wouldn’t you, so – big deal! – what I haven’t been able to cope with is Burnham, and her over-the-top emotional responses and exaggerated facial expressions when confronted with any family backstory, or childhood trauma.. ugh! dreadful.. I think Tilly and Burnham need to go…. and quick. Reno, yeah started off promising, now just become a liability… You’re right about Stamets, too… permanently constipated, I’d say… Oh well, in the absence of the Expanse Season 5 I’ll keep watching, I guess…..

I never felt Tilly was a good character. Part of me thinks that it might be just what Weisman brings to the table. But make no mistake… It’s not a very good part.

MU Georgeau… Pretty much the consensus. She is a terrible idea and it’s the wrong part for Yeoh. It’s not a good fit.

Reno… Still the best part of the cast. It never occurred to me that she was being “mean”. So what? Suck it up. So she’s a bit a jerk. At least she’s not a black & white character. I love it and want her to keep doing it.

Stammets… Meh. Not impressed. But not unimpressed either. He’s…. Adequate.

It’s actually looking like another problem with Secret Hideout is with casting. They have made a lot of bad calls. And some good ones, too. (Anson Mount, for example). But there are a lot of good actors out there and to have as many people in parts that don’t work for them as this show has would seem to reflect badly on the casting director.

Michelle Yeoh is an acting legend. I don’t like Mirror Georgiou and don’t think the role is a good fit for her talents, but the woman is an international superstar for good reason. Her resume over the last 30 years is so impressive, and all the best directors have clamored to work for her. She has done Malaysia and Hong Kong and China proud.

Star Trek has always had their Characters that felt like misfits and who struggled with anxieties. The way you trash Tilly is borderline bullying imho. Your negativity towards body types added (which is really only a culture / fashion thing – to be slightly overweigth is more healthy than the other way around) I recommend you examine your own life before holding others up to a subjective standard of “perfection“.

To all people who can relate to Tilly (i know i am): it is not about being that fearless, perfect looking human, its about acting despite the fear that makes you strong.

Groan…another Michael Burnham saves the day episode! We spend over 95% of the episode seeing the crew work to save the ship only to have Burnham and her new hairdo show-up to save the day, again. Pathetic.

Mary Sue to the rescue again….who would of thought……

I’m finding this series very strange. Visually rich, yes – but with some incomprehensible directorial decisions, some gaping plot holes, and some VERY bad acting from one or two of the cast. For instance – the combination of short, rapid cut shots during the action sequences gets paired with long drawn out cheesy emotional reaction shots during the attempts to infuse the story with human sensitivities – this is where the bad acting becomes apparent – also the way some of the characters have almost schizoid changes of personality is very disconcerting… I think what’s wrong here is some of the casting – some of the character development, and the uneven narrative pace. Hopefully, it will settle down – Next Gen took until about season three.. There needs to be a more coherent directorial style, a firm pace, and less ‘family backstory’ claptrap….

(sigh). I was hoping beyond hope that new season would mean a reduction in the overheated melodrama. After all, the third season has historically meant a sea change for most ST series. Alas, alas, this is still a violent kiddy show. But, as they know, I, and many people like me, will watch anyway.

Well if you want to compare to other Treks this is really comparable to the beginning of season 2 for the over the air shows.

Discovery is better than Picard. Yes, two different shows. But Discovery is better, at least so far. IMO. These first 2 shows have been well produced and feel very polished. The cast and crew are in a groove. Hopefully Picard catches up in S2.