Two ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 3 Fan Theories We Hope Are Not True

The third season of Star Trek: Discovery has some big mysteries, spawning many fan theories including some TrekMovie.com theorizing. There are a couple of prominent fan theories which have come up on our All Access Star Trek podcast that have some evidence in their favor but we are hoping won’t come to fruition.

Theory #1: Detmer is being taken over by Control

Background: Since arriving in the 32nd century there has been something a bit off with the USS Discovery’s helmsman, Lt. Keyla Detmer. In episodes two and three she has appeared distracted and even a little insubordinate. This began after the ship crash-landed and she suffered a blow to the head which left her bleeding. The injury was to the same side of her head as her cybernetic implant, which itself was the result of injuries sustained when she served on the USS Shenzhou in the series premiere.

In episode two, Dr. Pollard released Detmer from sickbay, but she didn’t appear to have fully recovered psychologically. This got the notice of Dr. Culber, possibly foreshadowing him acting as ship’s counselor. Of course, the crew is also dealing with the loss of everyone they left behind in the 23rd century, along with the aftermath of Klingon War, traveling to the Mirror Universe, and taking on Section 31. In episode 3, Saru acknowledges some members of the crew are coping “better than others.”

So, TrekMovie has assumed Detmer is acting a bit off due to suffering from PTSD. But some fans think there is something more going on…

The fan theory:  Detmer’s odd behavior is due to the last vestige of the Control AI finding a refuge in her implant after Leland (who had been possessed by Control) was destroyed in the spore chamber. As her implant isn’t an ideal host, the Control AI has yet to be able to take complete control of Detmer.

The evidence: All of Detmer’s odd behavior in episodes two and three could be seen as someone who is struggling to maintain control. And speaking of control, Detmer’s first line of dialogue this season (during the crash-landing sequence in episode 2) was: “Commander, I can’t get control.”

There is also in-universe precedent. Control had previously taken over the cybernetic character Airiam in season two, which lead to that character’s death.

Zooming out to how Discovery has told stories before, when the show starts to pay special attention to a less prominent character, something nefarious could be afoot. PTSD has also been used as a cover story before. In season one Tyler was supposed to be suffering from PTSD after being a prisoner of the Klingons, and Lorca was supposed to have it after his ship was destroyed, but neither was true: Tyler was a Klingon who’d been turned into a human, and Lorca was an imposter from the mirror universe.

CBS themselves are also fueling this speculation on social media.

Why we hope it’s not true: The whole in-universe reason to jump the show into the 32nd century was to leave Control behind and keep it from getting its hands on the sphere date. If Control followed the crew to the 32nd century, the whole journey was pointless, negating all of their sacrifices.

And we know the storytelling reason for taking the show into the future: to free Discovery of both canon and baggage. “Fresh snow,” is how showrunner Michelle Paradise has described it, and we very much want this to be true.

Also, turning Keyla’s story into a villain’s cliched return after apparently being defeated takes a potentially interesting character arc about dealing with trauma and the consequences of the 930 year jump and turns it into a tired monster-movie trope.

Theory #2: The Burn was caused by a Burnham

Background: The USS Discovery jumped to the 32nd century after receiving warnings from the “Red Angel,” which turned out to be Dr. Gabrielle Burnham, Michael Burnham’s mother who invented the Red Angel time-traveling suit and was stranded in a lifeless 32nd century. Eventually Michael also had her own Red Angel time travel suit made, and used it to lead the Discovery into that future after defeating Control, and changing the timeline.

When Burnham and the Discovery arrived in the future, they learned of “The Burn,” a catastrophic event that occurred over a century prior. Through the first three episodes we have learned that The Burn happened after dilithium supplies dried up, followed by remaining dilithium going inert, leading to the destruction of most starships, the deaths of millions, and the fall of the Federation. Michael Burnham and the crew have set themselves the goal to finding out what caused The Burn, finding what’s left of the Federation and restoring it.

Based on what we have seen, along with commentary from the showrunners, TrekMovie has concluded that The Burn was intentional, and caused by some group or race that at one time was considered an ally of (or possibly a member of) the Federation. But some fans think the culprit was closer to home.

The fan theory:  The Burn was caused by Michael Burnham (or her mother), through their use of the Red Angel time travel suit.

Evidence: The first clue comes from the name itself: that “The Burn” is a derivation of Burnham. Perhaps the causal link between Burnham and The Burn was lost over the decades, or it is simply a clue from the writers. Beyond this bit of speculation, there is inference via precedent, based on Michael Burnham’s importance to the show itself.

Season 1 was all about the war with the Klingon, along with a diversion into the Mirror Universe. And Michael started the war, and became famous as a mutineer. She was also recruited by Captain Gabriel Lorca who wanted her with him when he returned to his true home in the Mirror Universe. As Michael was a pivotal character there, he figured he could use her as Emperor Georgiou’s weak spot.

Season 2 was all about the Red Angel, and the person who held the key to the mystery of Angel’s seven signals was none other than Michael’s foster brother Spock. Bigger still, the Red Angel turned out to be Michael’s own mother, Gabrielle Burnham. And when someone had to use a Red Angel suit to lead Discovery into the future, Michael was literally the ONLY person who could do it. In the end it was Michael who sent out all but one of the seven red burst signals, tying her even closer to season’s foundational mystery.

“What is the Burn?” is the stated central mystery of this current season. Therefore—the theory goes—the writers won’t be able to stop themselves from once again making Michael Burnham directly linked to its origins. And if not Michael herself, then her mother, Gabrielle Burnham, keeping it in the family. And let’s not count out dad: Like Gabrielle, Mike Burnham is presumed dead, but maybe he is out there too with his own time travel suit.

Another possible variation on this theory is that even if another party caused The Burn, they were motivated in some way related to Michael Burnham, perhaps in an attempt to thwart her use of time travel. So even if she didn’t do the deed, she was still responsible for it, albeit indirectly.

Oh, and if you want to stretch it a bit more, you can look at how CBS promotes their “What Is The Burn?” mystery by putting Michael Burnham herself right into the question (see social media post below).

Why we hope it’s not true: Simply because it’s just bad storytelling to AGAIN make Michael the reason for everybody’s actions and everybody’s despair. Because it’s a bad play on words. Because it’s boring.

What’s your theory of the case?

Are you a believer in one of these fan theories? Or do you have another to suggest. Let us know in the comments below.


Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news, reviews and analysis here at TrekMovie.com.

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The second theory I could deal with. The first one about Detmer can F right out the door. It’s so lazy, and it robs the show of a compelling PTSD storyline, as well as robbing Emily Coutts of an opportunity to do some real acting with real teeth instead of merely being possessed by a villain. Fans weren’t crazy about Control the first time, we don’t need Control part 2. They don’t need to be the Kazon of this series.

My hope is that Detmer’s hesitation to move the ship in E3 is evidence that it is PTSD related, as there’s no reason why Control would make her behave that way, and her behavior is consistent with someone who is not fully there because of PTSD. Her fear, as opposed to how Airiam tried to sabotage things.

Dead-on Marcelo Teson. I hated Control when it was in and I will transport to another planet if they bring it and any form of Leland back into it. Discovery’s a great show, keep it that way without the old b.s. story lines.

Why is portraying a possessed character inconsistent with “real acting with real teeth”? In that VOY episode (“Body and Soul,” I think) where the doctor possessed Seven’s body, Jeri Ryan gave us some very impressive acting.

as robbing Emily Coutts of an opportunity to do some real acting with real teeth instead of merely being possessed by a villain. 

Perhaps, if Control were a more nuanced manipulative villain as it was in the Trek Relaunch tie-in novels that the concept was drawn from, I could see that this would be a compelling plotline and offer scope for performance.

However, that isn’t what we saw, instead it was a straight up “I’m destroying all biological intelligence” over-the-top Trek movie villain type (as was parodied in the LDs episode Crisis Point).

We saw how Lorca’s subtlety was undermined by an over-the-top baddie reveal in his final stages in the MU to the point one could no longer see him as a charismatic alternative to Mirror Georgiou who could gain the loyalty of followers.

No matter how well Emily Coutts is carrying this now, if it ends up with a last scene of Alien type last gasp of the monster surprise reveal, we’re not going to remember the great performance leading up to that.

Why do people say Burnham started the war that is not true. The federation started it the second that the klingon ship uncloaked and the federation didn’t fire on them first which they should have done but didn’t. They should’ve listened to the vulcans. Starfleet need to understand that sometimes shooting first is the right thing to do. But Starfleet’s protocol on not shooting first gave the excuse klingons where looking for in the first place. Hello people Klingons are a war race that love violence.

I would say the difference is that by that point Jeri had already developed her character into a fully three dimensional version of Seven, likewise the Doctor was an interesting character full of depth, and the two characters also had something of a relationship. Contrary to any of these, Detmer is somewhat under developed, Control was a relatively flat villain, and neither of them have a relationship with the other (except for maybe harsh feelings for each other) …

Now a more interesting thought might be a remainder of Ariam having survived in the implant. This would be interesting, and would have the potential of allowing the character to grow and deal with grief.

I think more likely though, is that Detmer will likely come across more advanced cybernetic technology in the 32nd century, technology that might blur the line between her humanity and her technology even more, this will present a moral dilemma classic to Start Trek.

Last edited 26 days ago by Sam

It may not be Control at all. But she is seeing things through her implant. She’s definitely receiving some background noise of The Burn that she is not able to fully understand yet. And that will lead her to the person behind it… which most certainly is Michael or a version of her from an alternate timeline.

Maybe something has happened to her in her year with Book. She seemed lighter. Maybe her “dark side” got servered somehow, now galavanting through time and space, somehow causing the Burn. Or maybe the Burn is an accident, a paradox: Burnhams actions to prevent the Burn from happening may be causing it in the first place. But Detmer is the one to determine that cause first. She perceives it through her implant. She is the determiner. It’s in her name.

Last edited 29 days ago by Garth Lorca

I absolutely love this idea! Nice one!

So basically all these problems could’ve been solved if those Klingons had got the job done right the first time, since everything for the past 1000 years is Michael’s fault. lol. If this turns out to be the case, the writers should be fired.

I agree. Burnham is the cause of and answer to all of lifes problems in the Federation.

She becomes the first Borg Queen and time travels to the distant past, creating the first unimatrix.

She does kinda look like a Borg Queen, just saying. And the way Control – when it had Leland – practically voiced the line “resistance is futile” (paraphrased by Leland) many thought it was going to be a Borg origin story, somehow, even though the timing was incorrect. With all the time travel happening, I can totally see them doing this.

Failed to mention the obvious – that she *is* carrying Control, and that’s what makes her Borg-y..

I can see that, although I’m not the biggest fan of that idea. But it makes a tad more sense now as Control, was totally out of place in the 23rd century, decades prior to M5, Nomad and V’Ger, let alone TNG nanites.

Now if they “manage” to send Detmer back in time at some point, she could be the original Borg Queen. Her implant always reminded me of Seven’s.

The First Theory is False becuase the Poor Girl is Suffering from Post Dormatic Stress Disorder wich started in the Battle at the Binary Star and again during the Battle with Control it hit her really bad when Discovery Crashed landed and you can see how she is trying so hard to focas on her Job. PDSD is common among people in Navel and Military service and I see that in her and I feel for her all she needs is to be with her Friends and love and Support

It’s false just “because”? You need to give reasons and you’ve not.

Because captain Killy is way hotter than usual Tilly… thats why!

Why did you say “because” and then offer no actual reasons?

Last edited 29 days ago by His Name Is Rios

… because I say so without offering up evidence to the contrary.

ITS P.T.S.D. POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER

If Detmer is “controlled” by Control, I really hope this is needed to put a closure to the probe that was sent to attack Pike and Tyler (Discovery S2, Episode 7, Light and Shadows).

If Michael and Mama Burnham are related to “The Burn”, they should have used a different name, “the Burn” would be so uninteresting, no surprise at all.

If the probe is sent to the past, Pike and Tyler may reprise their roles for the new episode.

Last edited 29 days ago by Jay

I hate the idea of their being linked, but I do think that there is another shoe to drop with the Terralysium community established by Mama Burnham.

If they (the Terralysium Cyclops Owl group of Craft’s tatoo) turn out to be part of the problem, perhaps Owosekun may have a larger role to play as the crew member who grew up in a luddite community.

Detmer suffers from PTSD.
The Burn is caused because dilithium is a multi-dimensional crystal that is over-used for FTL purposes, and when the supplies in the galaxy ran out, the multi-dimensional nature of the crystals caused them all to lose their energetic states rendering them inert. When they were unable to channel matter and anti-matter into plasmic energy to power FTL applications, matter and anti-matter collided causing explosions. My theories.

This sounds a lot more likely. I would say that dilithium as a mineral probably has a few variants with trace elements or different crystal lattice structures, etc, which is why some dilithium survived (the red crystals) but others didn’t (the green ones) – or it has some sort of half-life that we weren’t aware of.

From canon description, it behaves somewhat like a superconductor, but for matter/antimatter instead of electricity – its crystal lattice structure allows the M/A streams to meet and produce a tuned high-energy plasma stream which is then fed to the warp nacelles. Without that control over the reaction, the energy of the matter-antimatter annihilation would not be contained.

So what could cause all dilithium to lose its ability to behave like a superconductor when energized, simultaneously, across the galaxy?

There might be something related to the Hobus supernova. It was dangerous because it formed on a tear in subspace, causing it to grow uncontrollably, but also spread through subspace at very high FTL velocities, which is how it reached Romulus before Spock could get there.

Imagine if, somehow, a resonance pulse that spread much faster than light via subspace could be created, that was ‘tuned’ to dilithium, and this pulse somehow knocked its crystal lattice out of alignment – no superconducting effect, no controllable warp reaction. It would appear to have happened simultaneously but probably spread out from a single point.

This could have been a natural phenomenon, the result of an experiment, an accident, or intentional. But it’s hard to say who would benefit from the galaxy losing warp drive. Maybe if it was some last-ditch effort to stop a worse outcome? Maybe it’s related to that mysterious sphere data…

PTSD is not the sci-fi plot they would employ here. DSC is all about exploring the strangest concepts, boarderlining fantasy and I’m glad they do that. They brought Culber back from the dead via another dimension! Lorca was from another universe! Airiam turned out to be a human soul trapped in a machine! Tyler turned out to be the ashes of a hand-tailord Klingon spy.

PTSD… this is not an earth-bound drama series, it’s Disco… Trance Worms, Gormaganders, Time Crystals from Klingon monasteries, Tardigrades piloting starships running on magic shrooms… and you believe they’re wasting screen time on exploring some down-to-earth psychological syndrome?

I mean… c’mon… CBS is teasing that twist! Would they ask us if it was just PTSD and the answer turns out: yes, of course, just PTSD, justing kidding you? Really? The writing’s on the wall, but it’s most likely not Control… Control is the distractor here (hopefully), it’s Detmer perceiving the truth behin the Burn, determining who’s behind it! Which is of course Michael BURNham…

Last edited 29 days ago by Garth Lorca

This, exactly. Did anyone even look at the social media card that CBS posted? It’s obvious that Detmer does NOT just have PTSD. Good lord people, use your imagination..

It’s not Control, and it has nothing to do with Michael. It’s Zorah, the AI from Calypso, whose birth started in the last 2 episodes of season 2.

I loathe the Control is back, kicker from a monster movie idea.

I so very much hope they didn’t feel that they needed to do that for some silly “but that’s the way these stories work,” writer’s logic. All the more so given that this season seems to be designed to move the series forward as a soft reboot.

I do however have another theory that could be really smart and forward looking: it’s not Control, but instead the developing sentience in Discovery due to the merged sphere data.

The reason Discovery could not be destroyed in the 22nd century is because it it has self-preservation “instincts” and abilities.

Crashing into a planet would be traumatic for a self-aware ship, and Detmer her pilot has an implant that the mind of Discovery would try to reach.

That’s brilliant! I’d like that a thousand time more than “Control grabbed Detmer.”

I’ve wondered if Control was in Detmer’s implant, but only to HOPE I’M WRONG. :-)

I’m worried that they will in fact go with the cliche route and make Detmer under Control’s power. The connection to the emergent AI from “Calypso” would be more intriguing. Just trying to imagine what could cause them to abandon the ship, when they didn’t do it this time.

Well, I don’t think that they came to that point in time, in the new century they are in, when they abandon Disc, yet. I think that point is still to come in a future episode.

Last edited 17 days ago by Vahmp

That would certainly link on to the Short Treks episode where Discovery has been abandoned for a 1000 years….

A self-aware Discovery connected to Detmer is a brilliant theory… so cool!
On the other hand – the Short Treks episode where Discovery has been abandoned for a 1000 years and where Book was introduced doesn’t make any sense in the current (time)line of events. It would only make sense if it’s either Mirror Universe Discovery, ot the ship was sent back to the past somehow and abandoned hidden in a nebula.
Another question is – Georgiou is getting her Section 31 Spin-off, but are when is that going to happen – 32nd century or… maybe in the 24th…?

The human character in the Short Treks episode “Calypso” was not Book; it was a different man, named Craft, played by a different actor.

Not to mention Craft was part of a group that was in conflict with the Federation…a group that wears large “Cyclops Owl” tattoos on their back… and the image looks like a stylized Red Angel.

I think it’s very clear Burnham’s mother caused the Burn, and I don’t like it. Same goes for Detmer being Control. I do love this show, but they really need to stop 1) telegraphing their reveals and 2) repeating themselves so much. If (when) those fan theories are proven true, I think a lot of people will be disappointed.

Yah, this kind of thing makes it really hard to get into the mystery of the season.

When did Trek become about “the mystery of the season” anyway? Especially a mystery that follows a predictable pattern three times already (DSC season 2+3, Picard season 1). For sure there used to be mystery episodes in Trek but they weren’t the majority, and there were many other types of episodes. A great diversity of storytelling has been lost to this narrative monoculture!

Last edited 29 days ago by Vulcan Soul

Fans were two steps ahead in season 1 and three steps in season 2.

Yep. And that’s the problem–not even once have fans failed to see what was coming. At this point, it’s even obvious what “Calypso” meant.

One of the traps they’ve fallen into on this series (as well as season 1 of Picard) is that their approach to serialized storytelling involves a mystery serving as the foundation of each season’s arc (or multiple mysteries). If you want to focus on a series about rebuilding the Federation then focus on those stories, have faith in the characters and the premise.

Yes, I’m not sure that we needed a mystery, or if we do need a mystery arc that it needed a villain.

Why couldn’t it just be a natural disaster? Not every disaster needs a conspiracy or a villain behind it, and if there is any more important trope than “don’t assume it’s a villain” when it could be a natural effect or a misunderstanding, I don’t know what it is.

Between Discovery and Picard, I’m really wondering if Kurtzman and SH writers generally have got stuck on some silly movie idea that every season long arc needs an over-the-top Trek cinematic feature type villain.

While this worked -ONCE- in Wrath of Khan (with a previously established villain), this hasn’t really been successful even in movies. More, of all the over-the-top Trek villains, Khan was the least two-dimensional.

Mike McMahan and the LDs team were dead-on-the-money in showing how the over-the-top Trek movie villains really are the antithesis of the franchise.

I’ve been fairly convinced that Kurtzman is a smart strategic thinker, but he seems to have a blind spot about this. He’s come around to understanding that Trek’s niche is aspirational storytelling, let’s hope that he comes to understand that Trek stories don’t need and are undermined by over-the-top villains and “Archer Syndrome” writing for the top of the call sheet.

Vindicata has been the best trek villain in the last 2 years. change my mind.

So, what does Calypso mean? In the Short Treks episode where Discovery has been abandoned for a 1000 years and where Book was introduced doesn’t make any sense in the current (time)line of events.
Enlighten me, please!

Please do a small amount of research before you comment. You are making yourself look foolish by thinking they are the same person or character when they are different humans.

…and have different names.

You’re kidding… right? Please tell me you don’t believe all black people are the same person. That wasn’t Book and looked nothing like him.

I hope #1 is not true for sure. Discovery’s development of ancillary characters has been beyond woeful. I still don’t even know the names of the rest of the bridge crew, which played into my not giving a crap about Tilly and co’s tree (but really, it’s drama 101 to try and show something rather than tell it, and audience knows when it is being force fed an emotional response).

Having an exploration of Detmer’s PTSD with limited dialogue is promising. After 2 seasons we still knew almost nothing about her, the show didn’t even really explore her cybernetic implant, just made us assume she got it because of a war injury. She also seemed to get over resenting Burnham quickly, which could have had possibilities. I really hope this is a solid little arc for her and has nothing to do with Control, the aspect of season 2 I thought was borderline nonsensical and certainly uninspiring.

“She also seemed to get over resenting Burnham quickly”

(Saru too) That’s one of the things that makes St. Michael such unbelievable a character. Everyone else is either written as unrealistically wooing her or intentionally weak, to make her strong and glorious. But in reception the character is only the weaker because of it.

The whole crew foregiving her nearly instantely after episode 4, despite her actions killing their friends and beloved captain, and maiming Detmer, brings up unwelcome shadows of Voyagers instant integration of the Maquis crew which was lambasted for years and even afterwards (by people like RDM). These were people whose friends and colleagues have been killed by Starfleet officers and their allies the Cardassians and yet they bantered with them in mess hall a few days after the Caretaker incident.

To be fair, at least Voyager did feature this storyline a couple more times over the seasons (and the integration happened under extraordinary circumstances of isolation from home which Discovery did not have until season 3), at least when it seemed opportune for tbe story, while anyone resenting St. Michael seems to have been permanently brainwashed to fanboi and girl ever since the first half of season 1!

Last edited 29 days ago by Vulcan Soul

The funny thing about Voyager is that Tom and Neelix were butting heads until the middle of Season 3…and of that was over jealousy regarding Kes…meanwhile Detmer and Saru can sweep all over what Michael did in a few episodes like you said.

Yeah, Saru was originally very bitter about a lot of things Michael did. And Detmer literally has metal grafted into her head because of Michael’s actions. Yet they both forgive her for being her lovable insubordinate self. It’s gotten so bad, that in this past episode, we had Michael disobeying orders and Saru covering for her saying ‘She’s never let us down’… Meanwhile I can’t recall a time that Detmer let them down, but we have Saru yelling at her for giving a status report… The characterization is all over the place! I really wish they had kept it so Detmer was at least wary of Michael, but I guess that would make her the odd person out…

"She’s never let us down"
Good that you mention that! Indeed she never let them down, apart from that one time she got their captain eaten and started an intergalactic war ;)

Last edited 29 days ago by Vulcan Soul

Intergalactic?!? I don’t think so. Maybe multiuniversal, but intergalactic it is not.

My bad! What I meant is “intragalactic”. I think I had some bad Flash Gordon serials in mind. Michael the Merciless! :D

Superficially, Voyager is more entertaining from season 3 onwards. The high concept sci fi is kicked up a notch, the action is beefed up, they lose the Kazan and the Marquis strife, the adventures of the week are more colorful, and Janeway literally lets her hair down. And then Seven comes along and the show embraces all of that and coalesces most of its character development around her,

But even though the show loosens up, it loses some big Michael Piller tenets once he’s no longer show runner. They get forgotten because the show was a bit stodgy and the plots weren’t too memorable, but as you say – the Marquis conflict was being developed, as were friendships and animosities between characters. Chakotay was still a rule-breaker in season 2. Paris and Neelix were still working out their differences. Tuvok’s dark side and struggle to maintain control was explored. Janeway struggled with missing Mark, the EMH remained unpleasant but started to thaw and ask for rights, Torres’ inner conflict was developed pretty regularly, and they may have been middling, but there were continuing story arcs with Seska and the Kazon. This is all to do with Piller’s demand that every story had to think through how it affected characters. It’s a shame that this mantra was largely forgotten in the name of making the show more “fun” and only some of the threads above were pulled again, sporadically. It could have given the show a solid backbone.

And yeah, Discovery is in even worse shape than Voyager when it comes to character work. Saru is a fine creation, and while I can’t take too much of her, the writers have put a decent amount of work into Tilly. That leaves Burnham so far as the only other character to be given her due as a fleshed out character, and she is all over the map. I just don’t have a good handle on who she is and the ridiculous things she is given to do for the sake of plots don’t help. And now she has had a bit of a personality transplant, which I don’t know whether to applaud or roll my eyes over.

It’s not bad that when it comes to character work, but certainly Burnham character has been overly focused on. I liked the moment she had with Tilly (Time travel, man..) where Michael admits that she had to let go of Discovery and Starfleet behaviour. I agree that we need to know more about the rest of the bridge crew apart from Burnham, Saru, Tilly and partially Stamets.

Don’t get me wrong, I had no problem that Starfleet and Maquis didn’t bash their brains in every week because that was not the show I wanted to watch. I was perfectly fine with Voyager as TNG 2.0 – if only it had risen above TNG Lite more often!

Yeah. Like, Voyager could and did do some very fun ambitious high concept episodes, but that was never going to be a given they could do a great plot of the week every week, so having some touching moments and relationships to nourish us through the dry spells would have helped so much. In the end it was just growth for Seven, the Doctor and a smattering of moments like Janeway’s loneliness in Counterpoint, Torres’ inner conflict, or Neelix and Tuvok’s grudging friendship that we had to make do with. The rest of the time characters were just featured because it was their turn, and they rarely grew from the experience.

If either one of these are true they they are reverting back to lazy, untallented tropes and storytelling.

Excuse me, “reverting”? When did they ever stop? :P

“Reverting?” “Back?” Sounds like this writers room is simply doing what it always does.

I said in another thread I thought they’d make the Burn Burnham’s fault (ooh, a hint?), causing the destruction of the Federation, and her having to put it back together as part of her journey to redemption–a path already worn smooth and insufferably unoriginal if true.

One theory i have, about the burn, which has nothing to do with Burnham, is it could be the doinh of the Romulans. The Romulans lost their homeworld, and things aren’t looking too great fir them. But their ships, though utilizing warp drive, does it a bit different. They, apparently, don’t buse antimatter, and thus wouldn’t need a chunk of dilithium to regulate and control the matter / antimatter reaction. They use an artificial singularity, a miniature black hole. If they, ir a faction, like the Tal Shiar, did something to screw up most the dilithium for thousands of light years, that could give the Romulans a huge advantage.

I’m pretty sure they are saving up the Romulans for a big storyline either in the 2nd half of this season (as they always pivoted to something else mid season these past two seasons) or a future season, same as for other villains like the Borg. They couldn’t do these in prequel Discovery, you know they will do them now, right?

“Whatever happened to… 900 years later” gotta be so rich a trope for Discovery to mine it can continue for the next 4 seasons ;)

But seriously, if the Romulans were inoculated and engineered the whole thing, shouldn’t they be front and center everywhere in the past 3 episodes instead of Andorians, Tellarites and Earthers?

Last edited 29 days ago by Vulcan Soul

650 or so years is a long time to plot a revenge with “The Burn” though. Earth 650 years ago has almost nothing in common with Earth today. Why would the galaxy still be dealing with the same three political entities jockeying for power 650 years after Picard?

I hope they give us something totally new. Maybe some minor world from an obscure episode of TOS or TNG being the culprit (say, the Sheliak or the Zalkonians), having grown into a powerhouse over those 650 years.

Last edited 28 days ago by Thorny

I made the assumption as I was watching episode 2 that it was PTSD, but then somebody else had pointed out it could be Control… I just didn’t want to believe that was even an option. The whole Control plot was garbage, and I hope they distance themselves from it. Plus, it really would be nice to explore Detmer as a character.

As for the burn, I really don’t want it to be because of Michael, but I also didn’t want her to be the Red Angel either… and yet, here we are. I don’t have much faith in the writers, if any, so I just don’t see it being a red-herring. On the contrary, they probably think they’re being clever… But maybe that’s just me being pessimistic.

“Archer Syndrome” is the name that one of the occasional posters on gave to the way the writers on Enterprise force fit one captain into all the important moments in the creation of the Federation.

Many fans did like or buy into either Archer as a character and/or Scott Bakula in the role. Personally, I was wishing him off the screen more often than not.

I really like SMG as an actor, and mostly as a character (except the latter half of S2) but I really feel Archer Syndroming the character is the show’s deepest weakness. I can’t see who the writers think this would appeal to.

Force-fitting Burnham as the fulcrum of every major mystery and galactic event is absolutely “Archer Syndrome.” It’s not how TNG, DS9 or Voyager treated their leads and those captains were more credible for it. Frankly, I doubt that Avery Brooks would have stood for it. As Brooks put it, for representation to work it was essential that Sisko be just a black human man.

It’s the major reason I have little desire to rewatch Enterprise despite having this fascinating setting and doing the (visual) continuity infinitely better than Discovery (which is hilariously ironic in hindsight since at the time everyone was up in arms over the “Akira-prise”!).

Just this low-brow GWB-style anti-intellectual guy of a captain, married with Bakula’s ham-fisted, un-nuanced acting style, ruined nearly every episode for me which he was (which is all? ;) So it’s not just the savior-of-the-galaxy problem, basically everything is the same as with Burnham, the miscast actor, the over-emotional sledgehammer style, the privileged family background of the character, the unbelievable personality and acceptance by other characters.

If anything they upped all this shrillness for Burnham in 2020 to serve the social media attention bubble, but I guess Archer has his unique brand of hostility towards his second in command to make up for it (how does it look like today that only 20 years ago the captain would threaten his female XO, forced into a skintight catsuit, to “knock her ass”? Shows how fleeting and unstable this sort of social attitudes really are).

Last edited 29 days ago by Vulcan Soul

Yeah I was never a huge fan of Archer. They really had him play up the ‘dumb arrogant impulsive human’ trope. And as a result, he wasn’t exactly the best diplomat. But they forced that angle, and that role, and so the Federation formed… Meh. I think T’Pol would’ve been better in that role now that I think of it.

I wouldn’t exactly apply “Archer Syndrome” to Burnham though. At least his characterization was fairly consistent, and most of his world-saving was towards the end, and spread out more. Burnham is on another level with all that. And at least Archer had no problem relying on his crew. in DSC, the crew HAS to rely on Michael or they’re all dead, a million times over.

The way I see it, both the Enterprise and the Discovery writers worked from a fundamental concept that only the character at the top of the call sheet can be the hero, and all the others in the ensemble are there to support them, and the actions of others are really there to show us the story of the one central character.

This may jive with how Shatner wanted Kirk’s role to play out in TOS (and the show is less watchable for it), but in TNG, DS9 and Voyager the writers and showrunners gave us series where we could believe every Starfleet officer has the capacity for heroism and not just speechy “hero moments” as Laurie Ulster labeled them in the recent All Access podcast.

Of note, since Pike and now Georgiou are set to have their own series, they have been given moments to resolve the dramatic conflict is most episodes. But Saru, the captain – not really. He’s trusting Burnham’s rogue plans and letting Georgiou tell him his job and intervene to move things along.

Last edited 29 days ago by TG47

I really hope the burn somehow ties back to the Omega particle from Voyager… Dax also needs to come back as a future trill incarnation and yeah… Oooo bonus points if somehow the prophets release Sisko at this point and he comes into the fold. Sisko was the real captain’s captain if ya know what I mean

I think either theory would be fine if the story was written well enough. I don’t think that’s where they’re going, but we’ll see.

I don’t think it’s an issue of “well written” or not Legate Damar.

I increasingly infer that there are some very strong norms about how a story “has” to work that are not serving the franchise well.

– Everything “has” to center on the top-of-the-call sheet character.

– Every season needs a mystery with an over-the-top villain opponent.

Any I’ve missed?

Do I see the hint of emerging cynicism there in that list TG47? ;) Or is it moderately hopeful frustration still they will see the error of their ways and self-correct?

Looking for self-correction always. Not cynical, but sincerely bemused.

I don’t buy that the writers aren’t smart and have a lot of sense in Kurtzman’s strategic smarts.

But I have heard enough interviews and panels and apologias from the writers and showrunners (including for Picard) where they say that fans should understand that they had to do some seemingly daft or lame thing for some writers reason.

So my questions are
– “Why do they think this thing was necessary/essential?”

-“Why were these kinds of things not essential in past series?”

-“Is there only one way to construct a modern serial?”

-“Can’t Trek find its own successful new formula?”

Last edited 28 days ago by TG47

To me it looks like a fundamental disagreement in the strategic vision between writers and fans. The writers, as steered by Kurtzman, treat the series as a business product and the main goal is to align it with other peak TV streaming hit series, scifi or not, in every single way.

That includes broad strokes like the season length and arc design, down to details like color palette and which contemporary clothes the far future inhabitants nonsensically wear. They dont care if the series will look more dated than TOS in just a few years because of it, as the goal is to turn a profit now and for later there’ll always be new series geared towards any change in the zeitgeist. Thanks to the Trek assembly line they are erecting.

So the positive is we get more Trek, but not necessarily better Trek from the fan pov. I guess that means they’d answer your last question with an empathetic “No”.

Last edited 28 days ago by Vulcan Soul

There’s definitely something related to Control going on with Detmer. They basically telegraphed it. In the “previously on Star Trek Discovery” montage at the start of episode 2, they recapped the whole Control story. Then, as soon as the episode itself started, the first thing we see clearly is a shot of Detmer’s head, on her implant side.

Then they cut to scenes in the spore drive chamber, where crew are scraping bits of Leland off the floor. Then in the next scene, we see bits of Leland on Georgiou’s boots. And meanwhile, after getting hammered with reminders of Control for a few minutes, we have Detmer walking around looking dazed, blood dripping from her implant.

And we also heard the word “V’draysh,” the portmanteau of “Federation,” which we first heard in the Short Treks “Calypso,” in which an abandoned Discovery is now a sentient AI being. So, presumably, whatever is happening with Detmer gets us on the road to the outcome we see in Calypso (I predict it will be some sort of Control remnant that morphs into the Calypso AI at some point in the future)

Last edited 29 days ago by Ghostwriter

I think the AI we met in “Calypso” is Airiam and Detmer combined.

The Zora AI from Calypso is basically the opposite of Control.
Control came about as a threat assessment tool, I.e. assuming the worst of everyone, whereas Zora is likely based on Airiam’s memories merged with the Sphere Data and learning from the crew’s example over the course of the series.

I’m hoping that they’re “telegraphing” the Control angle so that they can set it up as a red herring, with all of us (and the crew) worrying that Control is, in fact, back, so they can spring a Big Twist when the Discovery computer starts exhibiting sentience because the sphere data has been interfacing with Detmer to understand humans.

Isn’t it rather sad this is our main take away from Star Trek now? Twists and red herrings!

Think the theory about Michael causing the burn is way off seeing as she was never near the year it happened. And I can’t see them continuing with the control story although control was the first thing that entered my mind after the crash landing and how detmer acted.

No, it is entirely accurate. If Disco follows The Flash pattern – as they have done before – then Michael has to be the villain…

Seasons 1: The show’s leading father figure turns out to be an evil version from another reality.

Seasons 2: The seasons’ mysteries turn out to be caused by a main character’s parent.

Seasons 3: The seasons’ bad guy is a distorted version of the series’ main character.

Plus, it is called “The Burn”… basically all names on DISCO have been foreshadowings of plot twists. This one is too obvious to be overlooked.

Maybe Michael isn’t the same after being saved from the Trance Worm’s belly?

Last edited 29 days ago by Garth Lorca

It’s her mother.

Remember that season 2 was all “it’s her mother” until the Plot Twist revealed it as actually Michael in the Red Angel suit. If they do go in this direction, I hope they make it LOOK like it’s her mother, until we find out it wasn’t. Too early in the season. They have plenty of time to lay in other plot points that might take it a different way.

Thanks for laying this out Garth Lorca.

I so sincerely hope you’re wrong.

Rios, I strongly believe that Mama Burnham should be dead after getting sucked into and traveling through a time wormhole without a suit on. (Her logs said the material in the suit is essential for protection during time travel.)

However, if Michael’s self-absorbed insistence that her mother stay and talk to her ends up transforming her mother or her mother’s followers into the enemy/villain, that would fit Lorca’s analysis.

And I would find it unfortunate.

Really, if Kurtzman wants to have the show run seven seasons, they should shed this kind of multi-season arc (if they even subscribed to it).

I kinda think we’re leaving season 2 threads in season 2. Not feeling it.

I would certainly hope after the Airiam disaster that Saru and Nahn are smart enough to search every piece of electronics on Discovery for signs of Control. Even everyone’s cybernetic implants.

These 2 theories make me cringe.
In the first theory the whole idea of “Control” having particles of AI just laying around in a head piece to make Detmer an over-the-top evil psycho, is just too lazy. In “Get Smart” Maxwell Smart worked for another organization named “Control” and connected to it through his shoe phone and the cone-of-silence. Surely Star Trek can do better.
In the 2nd, it just makes Burnham the most important person in all history and of all time. That takes her humanity away and is simply asking too extreme a suspension of belief. No character in Star Trek ever had that much impact on all existence everywhere. One of the foundations of Trek is that it’s a vague blueprint for the evolution of humanity’s enlightenment.

“One of the foundations of Trek is that it’s a vague blueprint for the evolution of humanity’s enlightenment.”

*Was

Now it’s a blueprint for humanity’s descent into hyper-emotional irrationality and division. So I guess that makes Michael the Savior fitting… To paraphrase, every era gets the Star Trek protagonist it deserves ;)

Last edited 29 days ago by Vulcan Soul

Yeah, that’s why we got Lex Luthor posing as POTUS. No one would have seen that coming 10 years ago… But yeah, that’s reality. Trek has always reflected upon that… the Cold War in TOS, the fall of the Iron Curtain in TNG, the war against terror in ENT S3 with Archer acting as a GWB stand-in… Why wouldn’t Trek try to adapt to the contemporary comic-book shows and political realities?

“Why wouldn’t Trek try to adapt to the contemporary comic-book shows and political realities?”

In this case, because it makes for mind-numbingly depressing watching? Like a car crash in slow motion (in Picard’s case: verrrry slow) :)

I think that “Discovery” is the best thing since the original Star Trek. In reality, it’s really better but the original was just that and that’s tough to beat because of when they it was made..the 60’s and 2020. One can’t compare the two shows. I say that because I love Discovery, but if this Detmer issue has anything at all to do with Control and/or Leland, then that’s the day that I transport back to earth. It would be a really lame excuse to ruin a great show. Control is gone and Leland is gone…shite I hated his character..so they better leave them gone. There are tons of storylines to invent, so I hope they do.

I think both theories might be true, unfortunately. I think it’s more likely of the two that the first one is true. Discoveries riders in my opinion have been very poor, lazy, and fundamentally misunderstand Star Trek. They seem capable only have conceptualizing evil enemies in and violent action felt cartoon like stories. So I think having control continue to pursue them would appeal to their audience which the writer seem to think consists of people with three neurons in their heads.

I’m sorry about my last post. I thought I could edit it, but I couldn’t. That’s the last time I try voice to text here. Let’s try that one more time:
I think both theories might be true, unfortunately. Especially the first one. Discovery’s writers, in my opinion, have been very poor, lazy, and have consistently misunderstood Star Trek. They seem capable only of conceptualizing simplistic evil enemies, and cartoon-like stories filled with violent action. So I think having Control continue to pursue them would appeal to Discovery’s writers. But I am confused about one thing. I can’t decide if the writers themselves can have relatively few neurons, or if they believe their audience does. I would guess the former, if I had to pick.

Last edited 29 days ago by GarySeven

“I can’t decide if the writers themselves can have relatively few neurons, or if they believe their audience does.”

It is quite obvious what they are doing… They always wanted Disco to be a contemporary “superhero” show with some darker “mature” twists. But basically they are following The Flash bluprint: main characters turns out to be a villain from another reality, mystery turns out to be the main character’s parent, now we are getting a twisted version of the main character to be the villain (the one we had thought would be the ultimate hero).

It’s Trek’s take on the wave of superhero adaptations. I like it because it adds some spaced-out fantasy to the Trek universe. It’s not a “misunderstanding” of what Trek is supposed to be, it’s just a different take. TOS wasn’t entirely down to Earth either. Neither were ANY of the other shows. It’s just that contemporary superhero flavor that may not agree with some traditional viewers. I think it’s great.

But as with some superhero shows, I could do with out the guts and brains… But I have no say in this and have to cope with it…Amen!

Last edited 29 days ago by Garth Lorca

Gabrielle Burnham is part of season 4…

Well, it turns out that the 32 Century isn’t lifeless after all – unless Gabrielle Burnham found herself in another sector that was but wasn’t able to discover the truth.

My own thoughts watching the series return was a Thanos type ‘Snap’ – how else could a galaxy wide burn of activated dilithium take place? This could be a premeditated attack (but after all this time where are the aggressors unless they are inter dimensional/parallel universe dwellers protecting themselves from the effects of warp drives on the fabric of space-time (Next Generation warp speed limit). A super race experiment gone wrong is an unlikely possibility.

Thanks for this article on “my” theories (at least I’ve brought them up first on this board). Of course both theories will prove themselves to be accurate.

Your evidence – my evidence – our evidence, speaks for itself. You simply wouldn’t have an event called the Kirkening with your MAIN character called Kirk just being a mere coincidence! So why assume it is different with Burnham and the Burn?

Michael’s name has been more than a pun, it has been a telling name from day one. “Burn’em all” has been on my mind from day one. She’s the one who (sort of) started the Klingon war, she’s been fromt and center in the Red Angel case and she will absolutely be responsble for the Burn.

In a way, DSC has always been following the set up of The Flash series. S1 had the Lorca / Harrison Wells similarity, S2 had a parent of the main character as being the one responsible. Well, S3 of the Flash eventually presented a distorted version of the main character as the villain… do your maths…

Plus, I do no longer think Detmer is necessarily controlled by Control. She may just be having a Cisco vibing experience, being able to receive background residue from what may have caused The Burn. She and her implant will most probably be a plot device to push the story further, she might even get killed by an evil version of Michael in a Tyler/Culber shock moment when Detmer envisions the truth about a fallen angel Michael being behind the Burn. She’s determined to fullfil that destiny :-)

Lots of Disco names have had strange puns and telling name qualities to them:

Voq definitely “evoked” some serious questions about his true identity. Ash Tyler… he’s indead the “ashes” of what’s left of Voq after being “tailored” into a human spy.

Airiam contained the letters “Air” and “I am”: meaning she was an empty shell full of air on the outside, with an actual human spirit who existed on the inside!

Owosekun is a lady of action. Whenever I hear her name it evokes memories of “Bad Boys, Bad Boys, whatcha gonna do when they come for you.” with “whatcha gon” being replaced by her name.

A strange evocation is “Saru, Saru, Saru is on fire” (with Saru replacing “The roof”)… Well, he was cooked by the Emperor and now he’s facing the ultimate Burn! Plus he’s now actuatlly “the roof”, the head, the captain! We don’t need no water, do we?

Don’t get me started on “Dammit Stamets!” and “Stamets report!” :-)

Tilly was a German warlord during the Thirty Years’ War, her name foreshadowed Mirror Killy from day one.

The Red Angel twists were certainly foreshadowed by the names Michael and Gabrielle as being the ones of Biblical archangels.

But “Burn’em all” certainly is the most pivotal of all namesakes.

That’s just how my mind works with names. My mind twists any name I come across and turns it into a pun of sorts. I’ve written entire short stories and novel based on nothing but puns. Maybe the writers of DISCO share my passion for that…

Last edited 29 days ago by Garth Lorca

Fascinating reading! Colonel Kurtz is also too good to pass on, even though he’s not an actual character of the show (yet!) ;)

In addition I’d like to mention Philippa Georgiou. Originally she was just an honorable Starfleet captain, but her ending up being The Emperor could have been foreshadowed by her first name. There have been various Greek and Roman warlords and emperors named Philippus, with the most prominent being Alexander the Great’s father, who formed the Hellenic Empire that Alexander led to temporary greatness.
There is further evidence for this idea as the name Georgiou is also of Greek origin and Alexander’s idea was to expand his empire deep into Asian soil. A Chinese actress bearing a Greek name, what better way is there to express the idea of a forcefully united Imperial Earth?

Leland goes back to “fallow land” and indead Leland / Control turned the entire galaxy into barren wasteland.

Culber is a derivative of Culver, generally applied to an unfulfilled love-interest.

So you see, Disco seems to be full of telling names… The Burn has been chosen on purpose!

Last edited 29 days ago by Garth Lorca

I hope seasons 1 and 2 of Discovery are not true.

How is that possible/ How would it be? Captain Pike, Spock and Number One are getting their spin-off already filming

Personally, I don’t care what caused the burn – and I hope Discovery doesn’t magically fix things.

Control was a show idea that didn’t work – so I hope to heck that they’re not using it again.

How Detmer got injured and where it happened hasn’t been revealed.It wasn’t on the Shenzhou.The last we see of her on that ship is when the Europa was pulling it away from the asteroid field. She’s on the bridge,uninjured. And she didn’t get her injuries while on the Discovery, which had been kept far from the front lines.I think we’ll find out this season what happened to her, either on air on the show or in one of those Discovery novels that pop up every few months.

CORRECTION The last we see of Detmer on the Shenzhou is when the bridge crew witnesses the Europa blowing itself up along with the Klingon ship that had torn into it.

God, I hope the second theory isn’t true, because it means episodes full of nothing but Burnham’s trademarked “anguished” face.

I like Detmer. I want nothing bad to happen to Detmer. Ok?

just a reminder. burnham didnt started the war with the klingons. the klingons had the Intention to Attack anyways.

I hope that they deliver a story that it in its selfe is true and not like this.

Last edited 29 days ago by jako

The first theory I thought of myself, although I think there’s also a small chance it’s Airiam stuck in there. People don’t seem to stay dead on Discovery, so there’s a chance. Of course I’ve always believed their win over Control was too easy…

One thing’s for sure, it’s not PTSD.

Last edited 29 days ago by SirStephenH

I really want to get to know the bridge crew better, so please for goodness sakes don’t dump Detmer! As for theory 2, there’s parts of it I can see but I agree that it just feels boring and lazy.

There’s been little to no character development in Disco. Philippa was the captain, then she left. Then Lorca, he left. Then Pike, he left. The fish-head guy does what and what’s his story? We really only know about Saru and Burnham and maybe Stamets and Culver. Everyone else seems to be expendable. Nhan left, Airiam is dead. We really didn’t learn anything about them. The characters never stick around long enough for us to care about them. Disco’s been a mess of a show, it’s more Star Wars than Star Trek it seems.

Based on what we have seen, along with commentary from the showrunners, Trekmovie has concluded that The Burn was intentional, and caused by some group or race that at one time was considered an ally of (or possibly a member of) the Federation

I’m not sure this is necessarily correct. A previous Trekmovie article (https://trekmovie.com/2020/09/09/star-trek-discovery-season-3-is-all-about-restoring-the-federation/) quoted showrunner Alex Kurtzman confirming that The Burn was nothing to do with any hostile group or race. Here’s the full quote of Kurtzman’s comments:

What happened to the Federation didn’t happen because of the Federation collapsed in on itself because of disagreement or strife. That’s not what happened. The Federation was as strong as ever. Obviously, something cataclysmic went down that changed everything.

A Trekmovie article last month also quoted Kurtzman again (https://trekmovie.com/2020/10/14/alex-kurtzman-readying-production-for-3-star-trek-tv-series-wants-unification-with-paramount-movies/), in which he simply described galactic geopolitics in the 32nd century and he did not imply that some former allies becoming enemies had anything to do with the causes of The Burn:

When it came to Discovery Kurtzman didn’t drop any major spoilers but did hint at the main adversary for season three, saying in the 32nd century “people who used to be allies are now enemies and vice versa.” The only specific group that got a mention was the Borg, only to confirm they will not be playing a part.

Cerner as control feels just lazy. It’s almost like they’d be reusing the May-Spore storyline from season 2 retooled a little. My initial reaction was that she has a concussion, and they were too busy with triage to catch it.
As for the burn, or “The Burnh” as I call it, yeah totally see it because Burnham is contractually obligated to be at the center of every major event.

I just don’t care. About the show, any of it’s characters, anything. I’ll watch regardless, because it has the name Star Trek on it, but it doesn’t feel like Trek to me. And I can’t stand Michael Burnham.

And I can’t stand snowmen :-)

:-D

“….I’ll watch regardless, because it has the name Star Trek on it…”

That is one thing, despite my 45+ year love of the franchise, I cannot do. We need to start to expect, I dare say demand better quality from these showrunners, imo.

Last edited 29 days ago by Danpaine

Yeah, I feel your pain. Unfortunately, I don’t think they’ll listen. I still have hopes for SNW though, and Picard wasn’t all that bad.

Same here in both instances, Olaf. But if the same team they have now is involved with SNW, then I think we can expect more of…this. I also liked Picard much better than DSC, but it wasn’t exactly compelling with the exception of some bright spots. Here’s to hoping.

I liked some aspects of PIC but overall, DSC is the far more interesting show. The problem with PIC was that it didn’t fit with the era it’s set in. Yes, I know, it’s a couple of decades after NextGen, but honestly, that doesn’t explain most issues I have: use of money, characters living in trailers, smoking, drinking, swearing within the highest Starfleet ranks… An attack on Mars cannot cause such a cultural shift.

I had my continuity issues with DSC as well, esp. on the technological front (holographic communication, advanced terraforming, nanotech, Klingon cloaking etc) but it’s a reimagined prequel to TOS, a much rougher and less advanced era in the history of the final frontier.

PIC just overstreched it with its contemporary vibe. DSC feels a bit more like a Trek show though they are riding a similar wave…

My hopes are on SNW. Hopefully they’ll cut back on those issues in favor of good old space adventure with modern SFX… That “holodeck” technology they’re going to use gives me some hope we will truly see some STRANGE new worlds this time round…

Last edited 28 days ago by Garth Lorca

Yeah, you’re right, PIC had it’s fair share of unbelievable moments (at least in the context of canon).

But what you stated about DSC is exactly my problem: it’s supposed to be a *prequel* to TOS. Even if you take the alternate timeline theory into account and say it’s a successor to ENT, it’s way too advanced to have made that progress in what, 100 years? I just don’t buy it and I think the writers just overdid it (“hey, that’d be cool…”) and maneuvered themselves into a corner they thought they’d get out of with this jump forward in time, yet the problems about the Discovery and it’s tech remain the same, even if it’s now 900 years “old”…

I’ve not read your post. Nor will I reply to it. The name Olaf also has nothing to do with Star Trek.

You did reply to Olaf. So you care

Do you want to beat Faze** in self-contradictiveness*?

*Is that a word? Ah, it well should be!

**If after the two comments of him below you still dont believe my fan theory about Faze I’ll eat my Vulcan robe!

Last edited 29 days ago by Vulcan Soul

My fan theory is that they are sibs sharing an account. They are fazing at an increasing pace though.

“They are fazing at an increasing pace though.”

I see what you did here!

As Spock would say: Fazescinating!

I only watch this show because it’s called a Star Trek show.

I feel your pain. Picard at least has a story and characters we know about. Lower Decks has been my fave so far, it’s just like a warm fuzzy sweater of Trekiness, it’s exactly like it’s supposed to be done. I’m watching just cause it has Trek in the name, but Disco feels disjointed and all over the place. Flashes of brilliance with the Mudd episode. A real thought provoking episode with “New Eden”. The rest has been, meh. Klingons that look nothing like Klingons and a dark, dreary first season. Second season showed promise, now this time travel to the future with season three. Do they stay in the future or do they get home again, or ?

When has bad storytelling stopped producers from creating shit? Let’s just hope you’re right and common sense will prevail and these theories will be thrown out of the window.

The one theory I haven’s seen many people discussing is that Detmer is being influenced by the data/AI that Discovery took to the future to protect from Control. We’ve already seen it keep the crew from self-destructing Discovery, and if we take the Short Treks as canon, at some point, the Discovery computer becomes sentient.

We could be seeing the early steps in that – that by interfacing with Detmer, the alien AI is learning how humans think, and/or using her as the template to construct its own sentience. Hopefully, we won’t see Detmer fusing with the computer, an they may be laying early groundwork for a major Season 4 plotline, but I don’t think “it’s either PTSD or Control” actually covers all the currently foreseeable options.

Or we might even get a situation where Control and the Sphere Data end up fighting it out in the computer, and the humanity of Ariam and Detmer convincing the arising sentience to side with the good guys.

Last edited 29 days ago by Lymis

This shouldn’t happen.

The only reason I am watching this show because it has the word Star Trek on it.

Honestly I could care less.

Last edited 29 days ago by Faze Ninja

They already took advantage of Lorca’s PTSD as a red herring, so I hope they don’t do the same mistake with Detmer.

So, Burnham mutineed and started the Klingon war, led the Discovery 930 years into the future for no real reason (Control was suppisdly destroyed before she ever left) and now is responsible for destroying the Federation 800 years in the future?

I really hope they do not make her the cause of and answer to all of lifes problems again.

I would rather it be Spock then her, or maybe the new cybor-Picard. Hopefully it’s a new alien that will seperate Discovery from the other series much like the Borg did for TNG.

They really should have kept her locked up.

Last edited 29 days ago by Zuko

“kept her locked up”

Coded sexism*!

* ;-)

Last edited 29 days ago by Vulcan Soul

seriously?

Tsk tsk asterisk!

Is that a zit or something?

An * at the end of sentence or word generally means see footnote for Clarification

Actually no it doesn’t. I small number slightly above the rest of the text denotes a footnote. but anyway, even as a footnote, I’m lost at the meaning.

We dont have superscript numbers here so it means exactly what Volizden said.

Take it easy, I was spoofing the posters who see every criticism of St. Michael as a fascist dog whistle ;)

Last edited 28 days ago by Vulcan Soul

You really watched the first Season ?
Burnham didn’t started the Klingon war !

That inhumane life long sentence on an alien planet with violent guards far away from home was one of the stupid decisions the authors made! This isn’t the Federation, that was blind law and order Bullshit !

Last edited 28 days ago by Tim

What do you mean Burnham didn’t start the Klingon War? Did you watch the first season?

Yes. Burnham didn’t start the war, but she was the scape-goat since the Federation couldn’t accept that their overtures of peace were viewed as assimilation in sheep’s clothing.

The Klingons were coming for war.

What made T’Kumva fire was the statement “We come in peace.”

I know someone mentioned this. Despite all we have seen indicated in this season so far, what if Ba’ul instigated the Burn (somehow) and the series comes around to center on the reasons Saru is still fit to lead?

Given how lazy the writers were this season with episode three, both could be true. Seriously, the writers apparently forgot that there are large colonies on Mars, Venus, and the moon in the Trek universe. So Earth apparently forgot about literally all of the other millions of humans in the Sol system? Oh, and everyone in the entire Sol system forgot how to use any communication devices at all? Come on, that is just super sloppy and lazy.

For me, “forgot about radio and white flags” is the biggie. (“This is Titan Colony, we’re having a humanitarian crisis, please don’t shoot again.”)

I could believe that the extra-Earth colonies were intentionally depopulated at some point between 24cen and 31cen. Or I could believe they still exist, politically separated from Earth, but aren’t in a position to aid Titan (which is why it turned to Earth). If this were TNG, we’d have a conference room sit-down in which the geopolitical particulars are laid out, with a map. More’s the pity. :(

So as for Lt. Detmer, I am hoping she is experiencing a combination of PTSD and trauma from it NOTHING to do with control. I would hate to see her character killed off and this would be in line with Star trek tackling modern social issues. She faces her PTSD And slowly becomes ‘herself’ again.

Now as for the Burn – I have been thinking one of two scenarios

Remember Po (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Me_Hani_Ika_Hali_Ka_Po) she came up with a process to regrown/rebuild dilithium matrices. SO

1. her process become common place in Starfleet and somehow went wrong. making dilithium unstable, however because they said in the description of the burn “dilithium everywhere exploded” so I am not sure this would be the case.

2. Someone (another race) got ahold of her process and manipulated it to affect all dilithium and BOOM.

Side bar
Because of Tilly’s connection to Queen Po and the strong friendship they kindled, I would be willing to bet it comes into play later in the season. Queen Po knew where/when Tilly was going to! The Queen might have left a time capsule, or government rule/edict that Tilly be aided should she EVER show up again for assistance.

Last edited 29 days ago by Volizden

I keep thinking that Grudge the cat is a Queen that doesn’t forgive.

I’ll say it again: Grudge = Queen Po and she’s not forgetting that her planet full of dilithium is damaged.

I’m waiting for Grudge and Tilly to catch up.

Last edited 28 days ago by TG47

The whole going to the future was the lazy part. Control being destroyed so easily was even lazier. It was like the internet, or skynet, and yet kill 1 guy, 1 ship and its over? No. I like the idea of control coming back because there is no villain this season.

The whole concept and execution of the Control plot was really stupid, and shouldn’t come back at all.

The problem with Control was that it just didn’t fit with canon. Such an advanced computer system employing state of the art nanotech simply cannot exist prior to M5, V’Ger, Nomad, let alone TNG’s explicitely mentioned first steps into nanite technology. Control would have been a great villain for PIC or another series set in the future of NEM, but as a TOS prequel, it just cannot work.

Ehh, didn’t fit with canon or reality in my opinion… First, as an AI developer I’m tired of the killer AI trope. Second, Control’s motivations and attitude made zero sense. And third, connected to that, it doesn’t make sense that an AI would desire anything, let alone sentience. The whole thing was a mess…

Fitting with technological canon or fanon (as we think we understand it) is the least of that plot’s problems, IMHO. More fundamentally, it’s retreading a prominent name-brand trope — how can Terminator be either a surprise (in a pure action-adventure sense) or interesting (in the Trek tradition of allegory)?

If you’re going to lift a premise wholesale, pick something that’ll be less recognizable to your primary NorAm English-language audience — something from Japanese or Russian SF, maybe.

I would hope that the producers would have learned their lesson about this by now. Given the serialized nature of the show and Trek’s own rabid fan base, there’s a virtual army of internet sleuths out there primed to spoil such plot twists, and just given the numbers it’s inevitable that someone will eventually make the correct guess and spill the beans. And when the twist is especially lame (e.g. alt-Lorca), the entire storyline dependent on it just collapses of its own weight. Better to just construct stories with compelling characters and themes and put such gimmicks aside.

With respect to Detmer, a Control possession-reveal would most likely be especially egregious unless handled with care (I rather liked the show with Airiam, but then her possession wasn’t really played-up as a plot twist). In truth, though, even far-better genre series have succumbed to that sort of storytelling. Michael Garibaldi’s disillusionment on BABYLON 5 with his job and commander were much more interesting before it was revealed that it was the result of alien mind control.

This first season of this show had potential. But now that I need a notepad to keep track of what’s going on, I’m done. The main plot and the sub plot and the sub sub plot coupled with the twist and turns and nods to bizarre details only Trekkies would know make my head hurt.
I miss the “The Next Generation” days when an episode had a beginning, middle and end.

“Simply because it’s just bad storytelling to AGAIN make Michael the reason for everybody’s actions and everybody’s despair.” – well, yeah…It’s Discovery after all

Airiam w/o Control contamination.

Last edited 28 days ago by Ray Toth

All patently absurd. Michael’s hero journey this season is to raise the Federation again. The Burn was the result of dilithium failure and the sub-arc for the season will be investigation of the cause. My prediction is that time travel will again factor in and Michael and company will travel back in time to before the burn and foil it’s occurrence.

“…Michael and company will travel back in time to before the burn and foil it’s occurrence.”

And by trying exactly that, Michael will be the cause of it. A classic Trek time-travel paradox.

My guess : Detmers implants just broken and cause some problems. With advanced Federation-Technology they will be replaced and Detmer can live now without visible implants !

That had been my first thought Tim, but somehow after those tweets by the CBS social media team, I’m doubtful.

BTW I noticed that the Captain from the Earth Defence Force wasn’t offering up to dat humanitarian medical services to the Discovery.

Last edited 28 days ago by TG47

As far as Detmer goes, I don’t believe either. I think she’s shellshocked and having a hard time grasping everything. It’s just a diversion to keep us from guessing what’s going on.

As far as I’m concerned the jury is still out on the second theory. Even if all dilitium in the galaxy went inert, there are a half a dozen prime canonical species that didn’t rely on dilithium for warp travel. They should’ve taken over. The Romulans, Hirogens and the Jem’Hadar didn’t rely on matter/antimatter reactions for their warp drives. Not to mention species with transwarp, slipstream, multi spatial folding engines, soliton waves and hyperdrives. Hell, I’m still trying to figure out how Q fits into all of this. The Burn was of such a magnitude that it couldn’t have been a single species responsible, my guess is the galaxy intersected a cosmic filament altering the universal constant required that allowed dilithium to regulate matter/antimatter. With dilithium rendered inert and there was uncontrolled reactions between matter and antimatter, everyone that was at warp went “boom”.

She’s shellshocked and second guessing her decision to go 900 years into the future.The Federation is gone, and millions of people with Starfleet are dead.She gave up her family and friends for this?

The Q continuum caused the Burn because they’re afraid humans will become more powerful than they are and rule the universe.

I don’t know, the Q always just seemed like lazy writing. Oh we’re out of ideas, lets get some super god-like race come in and mess around for a bit. And he’s a smarmy guy too, just to rub it in.