‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Theory: The USS Discovery Is Evolving Into Something We Have Seen Before

The following analysis has spoilers (and potential spoilers) for Discovery season three.

Two years ago today, the Star Trek: Short Treks episode “Calypso” debuted. This well-received short, which retold a Greek myth on board the USS Discovery, appeared to be a standalone story at the time. But when Star Trek: Discovery jumped forward into the future for season three, we suggested there could be a connection to this mysterious Short Treks episode. Now that we’re four episodes in, we’re starting to see some big connections to “Calypso,” which opens up some intriguing possibilities. Season three appears to be introducing (or re-introducing) a fascinating and familiar character.

“Calypso” refresh: USS Discovery will be abandoned and left under the care of “Zora”

“Calypso” told the story of a “reluctant” soldier named Craft (Aldis Hodge) who awakens on an entirely empty USS Discovery. He was found abandoned in an escape pod and rescued by the ship itself, or more specifically, an AI named “Zora” which was taking care of the ship after the crew had abandoned it long ago. Craft was from the planet Alcor IV and was fighting in a war against the “V’draysh.”

Craft wants to return home to his family, but Zora is under orders to maintain position. After some time together, Zora and Craft grow close and even dance along to a song from Zora’s favorite movie, the 1957 musical Funny Face. Eventually, Zora preps the ship’s last warp-capable shuttle, and gives it to Craft to return home after naming it “Funny Face.”

A holographic Zora dances with Craft on the USS Discovery

Connection #1: The V’draysh is The Federation

“Calypso” introduced Alcor IV and the “V’draysh” to Star Trek. Craft was found in a V’draysh escape pod which was stuck repeating an old Betty Boop cartoon. He noted that V’draysh cherish “relics from the long ago,” hinting some connection to Earth. In an Instagram Q&A, “Calypso” co-writer Michael Chabon confirmed that “V’draysh” was a syncope for “Federation,” but that was never shown in on-screen canon.

However, that all changed with the second episode of Star Trek: Discovery season three. When speaking in a pidgin of the common tongue, the 32nd-century courier Zarah referred to the Federation as “V’draysh” multiple times. He referred to Saru as a “V’draysh captain,” adding he should know pidgin. And commenting on the diminished state of the Federation in the post-Burn 32nd century, he said “The V’draysh has officially reached its nadir.”

Zareh talks of the “V’Draysh” in “Far From Home”

Connection #2: The Sphere data is merging with Discovery’s computer

The given reason for the USS Discovery’s need to jump into the future was to protect the data it downloaded from an ancient and dying Sphere lifeform it encountered in episode four of season two. The “Control” AI which had taken over Section 31 was determined to get this data to become sentient, which the crew learned (from a warning message from the future) would lead to all life being wiped out. After defending itself from deletion and self-destruction, the Sphere data merged with the Discovery and made an escape via time travel the only viable option.

The crew has periodically tapped into the Sphere data to help with their missions. Then, in the latest episode of Discovery (“Forget Me Not“), the Sphere data suddenly became more active by inserting itself into a discussion with Captain Saru, who was consulting with the ship’s computer for ways to boost morale. After Saru grew frustrated with the computer’s suggestions, the interface changed with a new chime, and a more natural voice greeting him as if for the first time, with “Hello.” After suggesting early 20th-century comedy films as a way to get the crew laughing again, Saru took note of the computer’s new insights and requested a level 10 diagnostic, pointing out that these kinds of connections were beyond the computer’s regular algorithms.

Later, after taking the computer’s advice for movie night, Saru postulated, “The sphere data was transmitted here for us to protect it. It lives on within Discovery. As we are now inextricably connected, perhaps now it desires to protect us.”

The sphere data jumps into a conversation with Captain Saru in “Forget Me Not”

UPDATE: The day after this article was published, CBS posted a clip of the key scene from episode 304 on Twitter, posing a question about what is going on with the computer.

The Theory: The Sphere data is evolving into Zora

The big thing connecting all of this to “Calypso” is how, after exerting itself, the voice of the computer changed. For all three seasons of Discovery, the voice of the computer has been performed by actress Julianne Grossman, using a very monotone robotic style. However, after the Sphere data was seen on screen and the computer began talking about old movies, the voice became much more natural. More importantly, it was voiced by Annabelle Wallis, who provided the voice for Zora in “Calypso.” And of course, Zora loved old movies and popcorn too.

However, this new Sphere version of the computer was short-lived. In episode 304 the computer returned to its regular voice to assure Saru that it was “fully operational.” This could indicate that the Sphere data has not yet completely merged with the ship’s computer, or perhaps it is choosing when to exert itself. In “Calypso,” Zora talks about how she has spent her time alone “evolving,” however it seems that the crew interacted with Zora before their departure—remember, she told Craft she was under orders to maintain her position after the crew left.

Another connection to the Sphere data is Zora’s interface in “Calypso.” Throughout the ship, there were circular screens which she used to monitor the ship and interact with Craft. “Calypso” also showed Zora moving objects on the ship (like when she playing chess with Craft), something which would be possible using the “programmable matter” we have seen in the 32nd century, which has not yet been seen on the ship. Programmable matter could also have helped Zora perform surgery on Craft, or perhaps the Discovery gets some of the robot doctors seen in episode 304 that worked on Gray and Adira.

We can probably expect the Sphere data to continue to exert itself in season three. So, it’s possible that at some point the computer is overtaken with this more natural and more intelligent AI. It is said with all Star Trek shows that the ship itself is a character, so this is keeping with tradition. An AI integrated with the ship and determined to help the crew opens up many character possibilities, and its growth into what eventually becomes Zora could also introduce dramatic risks, conflicts or even comedic possibilities.

One of Zora’s interfaces in “Calypso”

The big question: the timeline

Everything discussed here, from the use of the term “V’draysh” to the beginnings of the Sphere data (voiced by the same actress as Zora) interfacing with the computer, all starts to fit together with the USS Discovery in the 32nd or perhaps the 33rd century. However, Zora told Craft she had been on her own for “almost a thousand years” after the crew left the ship. We never learned why they left; all she said was that “the crew is away at present.”

Based on what Zora said, “Calypso” would have to be set in the 42nd century or beyond. But this means that the 32nd-century pidgin term “V’draysh” is still being used far into the future. It also indicates that the Federation will be at war with people who seem peaceful, like Craft. This has implications for the stated mission of season three, which is to restore the Federation… and peace.

It’s possible that Zora was actually lying to Craft, something that was a bit of a recurring theme in “Calypso,” with both characters calling each other “liar” at different points. It could be that Zora did not want to reveal that the Discovery had jumped through time, which could be considered a violation of the Temporal Accords. If this is the case, then “Calypso” could fit nicely not far after 3189, when the USS Discovery arrived in the future.

Zora observes Craft in “Calypso”

What to watch for in season three

While the evidence for the Sphere data evolving into Zora may seem open and shut, this show has used misdirection in the past, which is why we didn’t put “Theory Confirmed” in the headline. So we will keep a lookout for actual references to “Zora” or installing those circle interfaces or something else more overt before we close the case.

And there is also the question of how this new sentient ship will react to the crew. Will a sentient AI which can take control of the ship at any moment always follow the orders of the ship’s captain? Even if entirely benevolent, could it determine some situations to be too risky and refuse to do something in order to protect the crew?

There are also a couple of things to keep an eye out for as you watch this season. One would be any mention of Alcor IV: Zora said she had no records of Alcor having any settlements, noting her records were “out of date.” Another thing to look for is any reference to an unnamed and unflown Class C shuttle the Discovery picked up before leaving the 23rd century. That could be the shuttle Zora names “Funny Face” to give to Craft.

Discovery’s final Class C shuttle

What say you?

Is this all making sense to you? When do you think “Calypso” is set. Let us know in the comments below.


New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery premiere on Thursdays on CBS All Access in the U.S. and on CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada, where it’s also available to stream on Crave. Episodes will be available on Fridays internationally on Netflix.

Keep up with all the news and reviews from the new Star Trek Universe on TV at TrekMovie.com.

Subscribe
Notify me of
69 Comments
oldest
newest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments

I think Zara might be the Key for the Spore Drive if Discovery upgrades to Bio Neural Sercits like the Intrepid class and Sovereign Class vessels then they can inject Tartagray DNA into the pack and with Zara to help Gide Discovery we have an Alterntive FTL drive

That’s a bingo!
Pretty sound theory.

You just say “bingo” : )

It could be.

I still suspect that the dark matter is involved since that’s what enabled Mae to hop into Tilly.

“Tartagray?”

A simple misspelling. Tardigrade. Part of the original Spore Drive, and also some of the most impressive and adorable critters to inhabit the Earth (and space, God bless ’em).

The second the computer voice changed in episode 4 and sounded more natural gave me a big, big smile! I was saying even in season 2 I was hoping we see Zora show up and I was almost certain it would happen in season 3. Of course I could’ve been wrong (and still can) but clearly they are hinting this as the creation of Zora. Once we heard it was the same voice actress, why else would they use her again? And it evolving from the sphere data to achieve sentience is pretty genius as well. Wasn’t that literally the entire point of why Control wanted it? Only now, we see the ship’s computer reaching consciousness with it instead.

This is all very exciting though and it’s crazy how Calypso, a 15 minute short from two years ago, may be a big set up for the show going forward! I think restoring the Federation is just a very small element of a bigger mythology going forward. It was really surprising to hear the term V’draysh used so soon in episode 2, but I think they are setting that up for either this season or season 4. Maybe the new name could be former Federation planets that have broken off into this new group? Maybe we’ll find out soon since they have reached the Federation.

Again, I know I sound like I’m defending Kurtzman but you have to give the guy credit. He took a show that divided fans from the beginning and went far and wide to shake up its premise in a big way no other Star Trek show has tried before. It can all be a big dud of course but by throwing Discovery so far in the future, he could be setting up Trek in a new compelling way for years to come. For someone like me, this is exactly what I want. But same time, if its bad, it’s so far in the future you can just ignore it since it doesn’t really affect 23rd or 24th century canon anymore. So it’s a win-win for both Discovery fans and haters. ;)

Last edited 25 days ago by Tiger2

“So it’s a win-win for both Discovery fans and haters. ;)”

I don’t see much win for me yet.

Let me be clear. I only kept watching because I was interested in what IDEAS they would explore for a 32nd century post-Federation, post-scarcity scenario, a kind of universe Trek has never explored (and more like Andromeda, as mentioned).

However, the world building (including and especially Earth) and ideas so far are mostly disappointing and/or contradictory (regarding the Burn, they are all over the place and contradict earlier episodes with every new episode. Clearly not all science was lost and there must be more than myths and legends about it?).

That makes it clear to me ideas are not their main focus and priority. Exploring characters, relationships and emotions are. Now, that has always ALSO been a part of Trek, but never so dominant and overbearing (and I didnt like it in late TNG either when every other episode was about lost family members…)

There gotta be a balance and still, no matter which century, Discovery is striking it in few regards!

I’m really enjoying the look of the 32nd century but I obviously know you feel differently. So far though, it’s been really interesting to me. We haven’t really seen that much but what we have entices me at least.

As far exploring characters, isn’t that what Star Trek does? I’m a little confused on this point. We see characters grow, develop, have emotional ties to other characters, etc. Discovery isn’t doing anything differently in that regard. And if you’re talking about Adira, that was their first real episode. We know it will play a part of the character but it doesn’t mean it will be done that way for all the other characters.

And I think they are just trying to quell some of the complaints the show does too many episodes of fist fights and explosions and try to make a few more ‘slower’ episodes. It is funny the most popular DIS episodes does seem to be the quieter ones just like Nepenthe was so popular for Picard. Fans seem to really love these kinds of stories. I don’t think that’s ALL they want either, but it is a nice change of pace.

If they find a good balance between small character episodes like this one and “we have destroy that planet or we lose all life in the galaxy!!!” I think that would satisfy more people. At least based on what people seem to like so far.

Tiger2, I’m having the same reaction to this kind of criticism.

Certainly, there are a people who liked the Discovery bullet pace in the first two seasons, but there weren’t a lot of them on this board.

What we did hear a lot of was critiques from people seeking big science stories, but with more subtlety, more planets and civilizations, and character development that was coherent and flowed from events.

Now, we’re finally getting all of that in season 3 and suddenly voices are popping up to complain that the show is spending time to do all of those things, and is doing them quite well.

I suspect the development of Zola, like the reexpansion of the Federation will be multi-season arcs.

Sounds like the Dominion War in DS9. It’s as though we were back in the early seasons of DS9 and fans were saying “Tell us where Odo came from right now and stop wasting our time on his personal mystery!” , or “Can’t we just figure out Cisco’s connection to the Prophets” .

Yeah it’s exactly all of this. It’s sadly a damn if you do or damn if you don’t situation. This season is feeling a lot like Voyager in the sense it’s basically about exploration now due to its premise even if that’s not the main objective. But because of all the mysteries they are going to various planets and places. What’s crazy is every episode so far we have gone to a different planet and place. Even though Earth and Trill are obviously planets we know and been to before (although I think Trek has only actually been to Trill once) but because they are now so different and far ahead than what they were in the 23rd and 24th centuries, we’re rediscovering all of these planets again. That’s really exciting and fun. And Doug Jones confirmed we are going to see more familiar planets this season and probably next.

And not every episode has to be big story elements. Even though season 2 was generally good in the beginning, it still did that a lot and that is every episode minus New Eden had huge stakes, fate of the world stuff. But so far this season while that’s what the overall story feel like, I’m so happy the episodes themselves have felt smaller and more personal. We’re seeing the crew trying to help others again through their journey. It’s getting back to basics while still feeling like its own entity.

And yeah I think they are setting things up big for a multi-season arc similar to DS9. We know Adira is coming back in season 4 now so I think we are going to get a continuing dealing with rebuilding the Federation and all the conflicts that will bring. Even if they manage to do it by the end of the season, there will probably be lots of lingering issues going forward.

Oh and last thing, I rewatched both of the trailers for this season and I realize this episode coming up is basically all the footage left we seen already minus a few scenes of Booker, which could be next episode. But basically we seen most of everything now so we really don’t know what’s coming at all minus a few scenes with Booker on another planet.

Last edited 24 days ago by Tiger2

This season meets with my full approval!

I hope we continue to see Book and his “Queen” [and maybe find the answer to a question some of us have: is Grudge a queen like Isis?]

I’m trying not to get ahead of myself because I do remember how much I was loving season 2 at this period as well only to be more disappointed by the end. But again, that’s the issue with serialize shows in general, seasons are based on the overall story and not episode by episode. But so far yeah I’m liking it more than season 2 at this point, which I just said I really liked as well.

And remember people seem to be enjoying this season WITHOUT Pike. Its the other thing I bring up, as much as we love certain characters (as you do Lorca), they don’t define the show either, unless they are there for years on end. But every season this show seems to do great finding other new characters people can explore and bond with pretty quickly. I like both Book and Adira and we seen them in like two episodes so far.

But for me, this time period is just a lot more fun and interesting to be in and why I’m happy the Discovery crew is going to stay there. It looks like they have been plans for it going forward.

Last edited 24 days ago by Tiger2

Come on now, be honest. There was never, ever, really any chance that these guys would produce anything that would ever meet your precise standards…

Others have mused that Discovery may need to make another time transit and then hide. It may be that Discovery may need to hide the sphere data in another strand of the multiverse.

I’m getting ideas that Georgiou and her team may be time traveling and universe hopping to keep adversaries from destroying the Federation.

So, Craft’s experience with Discovery in Calypso may be out of era or even out of the Prime Universe.

Craft and his “Cyclops Owl” people (and doesn’t that symbol look like the Red Angel) may be Luddites originating from Terralysium who brought about the Burn to prevent a hostile transcendent AI destroying all sentient biological life. That would put them “at war” with the Federation, and would mean that any return message Burnham received from Terralysium is suspect.

I will say one of my (far out there) theories with Calypso was that Discovery was in the far future in a parallel universe. I never really thought it was a real possibility and why I never wrote it, but its something I had in the back of my mind. Or maybe it’s just the MU in the far future and the V’draysh are basically the new Federation that rose up once humans achieved their freedom again in the 24th century (again faaaaar out theory ;)).

But maybe it won’t be THAT crazy after all. Maybe you’re right, the ship is just thrown in another universe as well. IF the Section 31 show is a multiverse premise then maybe they send the ship there and for Georgiou to find later. Its definitely a stretch but with this show ANYTHING is possible. ;)

If not, I love your Terralysium idea as well. Those survivors have evolved over the centuries and now fighting against the V’draysh in a far flung future. You should really write for this show, you come up with amazing ideas!

Last edited 25 days ago by Tiger2

Thanks for the cheer Tiger2.

It’s fun and diverting to think about this stuff and spin out ideas, but as I’ve said, I do have a day job, even if 2020 is a worst case scenario kind of year.

Last edited 25 days ago by TG47

Ok, if I really had to put forward one of my ideas and ask everyone to get behind it, that would be my suggestion/recommendation for Graham Greene to be cast as Dr Phil Boyce in SNW.

Graham is a renowned actor – best supporting actor Oscar nomination for Dances with Wolves, Grammy winner, and an Order of Canada.

Beyond providing Indigenous representation, Greene would bring humour, empathy and insight to the role that would balance the cooler postures of Number One and Spock.

And to me he looks more like Boyce in the Cage than Coombs does (brown eyes notwithstanding), if that is a consideration.

Greene’s done a few interviews around the 30th anniversary of Dancing with Wolves. Check them out please and let me know what you think.

Last edited 24 days ago by TG47

The current season of “Star Trek Discovery” has some parallels with “Gene Roddenberry’s Andromeda.”

In both shows we had starships that required living organic navigators to pilot through FTL.

In Andromeda, the starship’s A.I. manifested itself as a hologram, an image on a viewscreen, and as an independently functioning android.

The Zora A.I. shows itself as a vocal signature on a viewscreen and later as a hologram.

If the Zora A.I. is ultimately used to pilot the Spore Drive as GIConvoy suggests, that would be nice symmetry.

I thought the same. Definitely borrowed elements of Andromeda. Still a Roddenberry project, but lacking the previous Trek series more hopeful outlooks.

I rather liked that short episode, Calpyso. It has that understated emotion and intellectual depth we find so rarely in Discovery (some hints of it in episode 2 this season). And it gave many people high hopes for Chabon’s work on Picard. I guess he was overridden there most of the time so he mostly left for his own show!

All this is probably true. I didn’t even think twice about it when ‘Zora’ first spoke to Saru; recognized the voice immediately. After that just assumed Zora was going to evolve from some sort of combination of future tech/sphere data/disco computer.

Why is this labeled a theory? It’s not a theory–it’s what happened onscreen. This is non-debatably the plot.

My theory, at least regarding the time frame, is that the Disco crew is able to make it back to their own time after helping to restore the Federation. However, in order to keep the timeline “clean” they choose to hide the Disco in a remote nebula (at least, it looks like that’s where the Disco is in Calypso), until such time that it can be recovered without effecting the timeline (i.e. 1000 years, like what Zora said in Calypso). Disco will then end with a sequel of sorts to Calypso where we see members of the Federation, perhaps Adira or another Tal host, coming to recovery Discovery.

As far as the V’draysh is concerned, I’m thinking that it may be a corrupt offshoot of the Federation formed after the Burn, and being run by Section 31.

Last edited 25 days ago by noraa

I think at some point Discovery will come across a planet with another Discovery orbiting it with “Zora” as it’s A.I. For some reason Zora will be very important to their mission so the crew will all transfer to the “Zora” Discovery and then send the original Discovery back 900 years with Georgiou so she can be in the new section 31 series and Discovery can orbit the planet for 900 years with it’s computer system and sphere data evolving into Zora.

Good idea.

I would also accept that Craft and Zora come from a reality where instead of taking Discovery to the future the crew hid it and Crafts future is the future WITH the discovery crew but not the ship.

This is pretty much my theory: Calypso occurs in an averted timeline where the solution to Control was to hide Discovery away, rather than jump through time.

Saru is way too trusting of this new computer voice. The first thing it tells him is to give everyone the night off and let her run the ship? this after they just traveld 930 years in the future because a computer was going to wipe out all life? I mean Zora could have opened the shuttle bay and sucked everyone out… that’s one way to explain why no one is there when Craft shows up.

He seems way too eager to accept that the sphere data is all nice and friendly and only wants to help, so they should all just let it have it’s way with Discovery. Either they are setting up a major fall for Saru or it’s very lame writing.

“He seems way too eager to accept that the sphere data is all nice and friendly and only wants to help”

At least that sentiment as written is very consistent with the general thinking of the writers, no? That all aliens are all nice and friendly and only want to help ;)

yes, I know. This episode had a late TNG, VOY vibe to it. most aliens are friendly. even the look of Trill amd wardrobe had a very 90’s feel to it.

But much less polyester and curtain fabric LOL.

I would say that ‘the ship’ is Discovery’s version of Data. It already has a jump start with the sphere data, but I can see the growth of the ship happening

Yay! Another Story Arc!!

Luckily we have a writing staff who have proven time and time again that they can take on many different inter-weaving, overlapping story arcs and tie everything together by the end in a neat fulfilling package without any logic fails, unanswered questions, contradictions, character assassinations or mystery boxes.

Its evolving into Andromeda!

possibly more correct than you can ever know. I remember reading awhile back that as Roddenberry had originally envisioned it when he dreamed up the proto-idea for Andromeda long before his death, Andromeda was meant to BE the future of The Federation… SO… this whole future storyline in Discovery COULD be about laying the framework to evolve the probable New Federation into the Commonwealth, and lay out all the other pieces to INTEGRATE ANDROMEDA INTO STAR TREK CANON.

Hi Zora = Rommie, glad to have you join in the conversation.

I’m definitely liking that Roddenberry’s “jump ahead to the future and restore world/federation government” Dylan Hunt idea has been incorporated into Star Trek’s Prime Universe. I’ve been waiting for this since his failed pilots Genesis II and Planet Earth were broadcast as made-for-TV movies in the 70s.

I liked the concept for Andromeda, but have found the show pretty unwatchable despite giving it a try several times, including most recently with our kids. It just wasn’t that well done.

So, if Discovery gives us an entire (if reduced) ship’s crew that came forward, and the opportunity to see Roddenberry’s idea for a sentient AI in the ship develop, I see this as a win all around.

Why is this a Theory when it was blatantly spelled out during the 4th episode?

Still no way to see the short treks (season2) in Europe. So sad. America first and only. Is this still Star Trek?

Wow this entire plot is idiotic. Thank you for providing more reasons to never watch this drivel.

Did you seriously just click on a story about Discovery, and then scroll through the comments, all so you could let strangers on the internet know that you don’t like the show? For real? You’re legitimately this arrogant and self centered? Wow. How sad for you.

Funny Face parallels many aspects of the relationship between the main character of the Robert Heinlein novel, Time Enough for Love, Lazarus Long and two sentient computers portrayed in that novel. First is Dora, the name of spacecraft and artificial intelligence that runs that spacecraft. The second is Minerva, an AI that is instrumental in nursing Lazarus back to well-being after he has given up the will to live.

Sound a bit like “Andromeda”

“Calypso” was a delight. I’d be pretty impressed if the plan was to incorporate it into the larger Discovery narrative all along, but suspect the whole thing will be a retcon, though hopefully a well-executed one. Chabon is one of my favorite novelists, which made the godawful (except for five wonderful minutes) Picard season finale an even more bitter pill to swallow.

Calypso came out before season 2 aired, and its 1,000 year timeline is now being compounded by the fact that the ship itself traveled nearly 1,000 years though the wormhole.

My theory is that at the beginning of the second season, the writers originally planned to send the *crew* 1,000 years in to the future, but not the ship. Discovery would stay hidden and wait for their return in 3188. This would have placed Calypso chronologically prior to the season 3 premiere, and Zora would have been re-introduced in the premiere.

Perhaps the evolution of the ship’s computer was planned to be totally unrelated to the sphere data, or perhaps the sphere data wasn’t as much of a prize for Control in these early drafts, but it seems to me that after Calypso was released, plans for the season 2 finale changed. Maybe the plan was to bring Craft back for a guest apperance or even as a series regular, maybe that character’s role got turned into Book. Both characters are independent operators and reluctant about war, though Book is more of a snarky badass while Craft is more somber and melancholy.

None of this may be the case, but if it were, a lot more about Calypso would make sense. One thing fans need to realize is that writer’s rooms don’t always have all this stuff planned out in advance, at least not as planned out as it might seem.

And for the most part, that’s okay. DS9 especially benefited from having a pretty loose plan as it went along, compared to something like Babylon 5 which wedded itself to every idea it had, including all the bad ones long after it should have course-corrected.

But, part of me is a little disappointed that Calypso is now just a dangling thread they need to find another place for, likely near the series finale (with assurance that the set design will never change substantially) rather than a setup that got a proper payoff like I expected was the original plan.

Here’s a wacky thought … isn’t Michelle Yeoh supposed to headline the rumored Section 31 series? Maybe her character takes Discovery back in time, while the rest of the crew waits at an undisclosed secret location. Georgiou leaves to go do her thing, ordering the ship to remain in position at that same undisclosed location. To the crew, minutes pass and they reboard Discovery. To Discovery, a thousand lonely years pass….

And maybe the secret mission back in time is so that she can alert Section 31 to start taking action to prevent the burn? Or leave a secret stash of Dilithium somewhere?

Okay, I think that’s enough of the wackiness for one day.

Anyone thinking Yeoh is going to take over the restored Federation and the Discovery crew will jump or be banished to the future… they have Discovery waiting for them.
I agree that I believe the original plan was for the Short Trek episode to happen first with the Discovery crew meant to show up and then restore the peaceful Federation (as opposed to restore an evil Federation).

Last edited 24 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

I been saying for a year now I could see the S31 show just staying in the 32nd century once we knew it was about the fall of the Federation, so yes I can see Section 31 being part of this new restored Federation. May not happen, but clearly it would make a lot of sense if it did.

As far as the crew jumping farther into the future, its possible but since Doug Jones saying they are staying in the 32nd century, it may not happen until much later and maybe at the end of the shows run.

Perhaps Yeoh even banishes them to the future. She takes control of the Federation and can’t bring herself to kill the Discovery crew, insteads time warps them to the future to show them the “progress” she will make.

I had originally thought that the short Trek episode would happen BEFORE the Discovery crew came into the future… that is after – WOW! That means that Discovery will fail in her mission to restore the Federation or if she does it will be a morally questionable Federation at war with peaceful planets. Perhaps mirror emperor will take over?? I assume Discovery is waiting for the crew to jump into the future or whatever.

Good to hear from you Cmd Bremmon.

I agree that it sounds like Georgiou is mixed up in this somehow.

Thanks TG47 – I’m actually excited about Trek now that space travel has a cost and is something special again. The TNG holodeck era is over!!! Woohoo!!! Future Trek all the way. Ha ha

Pretty sure holodecks are still here and probably better than ever lol. But I get your point and agree. It’s pretty fun to see a fallen Federation and Discovery being the key to bringing it back. IIRC you didn’t like the fallen Federation idea but now seem to really enjoy it. If so that’s great.

I’m personally LOVING it and always wanted to see this type of story line in Star Trek. And for me it’s just fun to see all these different iterations and eras of Trek. I’m still hoping we get a post Picard show in the 26th or 27th centuries but I’m happy with everything we are getting now and can’t wait to hear more about Prodigy and when that is set.

Last edited 24 days ago by Tiger2

Yes, while I think having the Federation fall would have parallels to Rome (and according to Calypso looks like the Federation will still go that route) I am more excited by the fact that they’ve made space travel special and filled with resource challenges – that the fake perpetual motion machines are done. Right now antimatter costs $62.5 trillion per gram, sure I think the cost will come down in the future, but not to the point where the crew can run around using their exploratory starship as a holodeck because everything is so easy and cheap. This in turn makes space exploration high stakes again – see the new “Lost in Space” on Netflix for how exciting this can be – i.e. “Wagon Train to the Stars”. This win exceeds my expectations, never thought they’d return to some sci-fi so cheers to the writers for making this all relevant again.
Prodigy I hope is some kids that find an old 23rd century starship and bring her back to life and set out to explore the universe in an age where exploration is frowned upon

Last edited 24 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

Well you seem to forget Discovery is traveling with a spore drive lol. Its not exactly hard for them, just everyone else. The show could even end with ships having spore drive technology, right? I mean why not? So far NOTHING stops them from accessing the tech which is the one thing odd about the season so far. They literally have something that not only gets them to wherever they want to go in seconds,but needs very little dilithium to do it with, so that solves a lot of problems. I don’t understand how four episodes in no one seems to care about that? But maybe next episode they will finally acknowledge it in a real way and sees where it goes.

On top of that, the ship is clearly becoming sentient with Zora coming around (what this article is about ;)). So Discovery is not really a typical Starfleet ship anymore. Not that it ever was, but even more so now. Between the spore drive and Zora, I think its going to be the most advanced ship in the 32nd century lol.

But outside of that, I like how they are doing the season. For me, its just fun to be in an advance era where anything is possible again.

And Prodigy is going to be based on the 24th or 25th century since we know Janeway is the lead. So I don’t think they would have a ship that old, but it can still be an older ship I guess.

Again, you have some odd arguments. How is exploration frowned upon? They still do first contacts as much as before. The Federation is bigger with even more planets as part of it. That only happens when you meet more societies. I’m guessing by the 31st century the Federation has expanded into the Delta and Gamma quadrants. You only do that by exploring.

Janeway said it best, Starfleet could’ve just built A.I. probes centuries ago and let them do all the exploring. That’s what is seen as frown upon. They still have people on these ships because they believe physical exploration still matters.

Last edited 24 days ago by Tiger2

Yes, the spore drive and magic mushrooms are the weak link. In fact just think that makes all your 24th century scientists pretty irrelevant compared to those of the 22nd/23rd which invented not only warp but spore drive that they could not duplicate. Shows you how stagnant the 24th century is.
That being said I feel sorry for every science teacher who is going to be told that FTL is easy, just need some magic mushrooms.
As for why not explore? Because you are taking up resources, polluting planets. Why does humanity need to “conquer” the galaxy? Isn’t inner knowledge, looking at yourself, investing in your fellows more important than always heading out taking more and more, contaminating the universe? Why can’t you just explore the universe from the safety of your parents basement.. uh, holodeck? Why how dare you think you can just fly around the universe doing what you want? This is eventually where the Federation I think was headed with everything being free and challenges/debate frowned upon.

Last edited 23 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

No, it shows how inconsistent this show is lol. That’s literally why it should’ve NEVER been put in the 23rd century in the first place (and why its in the 32nd century now). But regardless it’s there, right and clearly its not going anywhere. And Star Trek is a science fiction show. Do you feel sorry for teachers being told you can clone Abraham Lincoln in space or once you hit warp 10 you can turn into a salamander? It’s entertainment first, everything else is second. I think 99.9% watching the show understand spore drives is not a real thing just like I’m guessing most understand there is really not a sentient time portal sitting on a planet that can take people back in time.

Dude, it’s a TV show, not a science documentary. William Shatner said it best, they always tried to use real science whenever it was feasible, but whenever it didn’t work for the plot, they then just made it up. They been doing it for 54 years and counting now.

And no the Federation wasn’t headed that way since we have a thousand years of history and up through the 31st century humans were still exploring the galaxy in ships before the burn. There was no Zora like starships exploring the galaxy on their own with holographic crews, which I imagine they could do by the 32nd century. So again, this point makes zero sense.

There is a world of difference between projecting the future is anti-matter/matter reactions and the warping of space-time (all of which is theoretically possible though expensive and dependent on hypotheticals like the negative mass of the Kasmir effect being scalable) and the idea that magic mushrooms will allow you to jump through space. One is sci-fi – one is rubbish.
That you consider both equivalent leaps in imagination is evidence enough the spore drive is a blunder (and again I feel sorry for the science teachers out there).
One concept makes kids ask what is spacetime. Why do we need to “warp” spacetime? Why can’t you go faster than light? Does time really slow down as you approach the speed of light (yes it does).
One makes kids ask, if anything at all, why when they eat mushrooms can’t they jump to Alpha Centuari on a whim.

Last edited 23 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

Cmd Bremmon, back in the 60s warping spacetime for FLT travel was a silly idea, not legitimate speculative science.

Let’s not pretend we know the boundaries of what we don’t know.

Wrong – that you could curve spacetime was clearly established post Einstein. Also that anti-matter existed which would annihilate on contact with matter (ironically we still don’t get where all the anti-matter is and why everything exists since an equal amount of matter and anti-matter should have been generated and is generated in our particle accelerators). Schwarzschild et al for instance had black holes predicted as a result of playing with the equations governing the warping of spacetime.
Even in the Cage (episode one) you hear them refer to “time warp factor” given an appreciation for time dilation as predicted by Einstein and the warping of spacetime.
No such research existed then nor now regarding the magic mushrooms, they might trip your mind, but no even hinted at link to the fabric of spacetime.

Last edited 22 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

AGAIN, Star Trek uses both real and fake science ALL THE FREAKING TIME!!! TOS especially. Yes I understand, you think the spore drive suck and you’re not alone in that. But I’m going to say it again, the spore drives is NO different than every other crazy piece of tech these shows do. This piece of tech is simply replacing one a bit more theoretical. It doesn’t make it science fact and I HIGHLY doubt we are going to discover warp technology in 39 years and counting. Do you? ;)

I love the spore drive personally. I don’t think every ship should have one or anything because as Harry Kim once said, it’s not always the destination that matters, it’s about the journey as well. That does make up a lot of Star Trek (minus DS9 ;)). So we’re not disagreeing that much, I’m only saying the obvious; in Discovery’s case the spore drive IS an important of the show and obviously it’s not going away. Especially now that they put them in plot where warp drive is almost nonexistent for most ships. They literally created that premise just to give themselves an excuse to use the spore drive more lol. Not the only reason of course but clearly a big one.

Either you accept it or you don’t but for me this is what Star Trek is, the crazy magical technology along with everything else. But again you should stop kidding yourself, there is a reason why you rarely see transporter technology used in other space shows or films, because it’s pretty unrealistic. Star Trek is the only space opera that uses teleportation like common use. Even in real science theory, they don’t think matter itself could ever be broken down that way to teleport like its done on the show. It’s as far out there as the spore drive but its been there for 50 years so most people don’t think of it as that crazy anymore….but it is.

Last edited 22 days ago by Tiger2

The less science / practicality and more magic as you put it, the cheesier and stupider the episode in my humble opinion. Transwarp turning people into lizards, Spocks Brain – let’s ditch that. It was never good Trek to begin with, just something you put up with in between Balance of Terror and the Doomsday Machine.
I agree, there has always been some bad Trek, look at all of TNG apart from the time Picard took out the starfleet at Wolf 359; writers need to appreciate what makes good Trek and what is just forgetable and ignored. Sorry Spock’s Brain – you were more suited for TNG, what a waste of an hour that could have gone to a real episode.

Last edited 22 days ago by Cmd.Bremmon

TNG was amazing! Still my second favorite show. And Discovery is even MORE amazing this season, certainly more than season one! The spore drive is clearly going to be the star of season three now that they established it’s what is going to help the Federation get around in places they couldn’t before. I didn’t write it man, but I just care about the show more than I do how ‘realistic’ the tech is since in Star Trek, most of it is pretty iffy anyway.

Last edited 21 days ago by Tiger2

Depends on the mushrooms, actually ;-)

LOL!

Theories might be true, and it’s a nice writeup, however V’draysh is not a syncope for Federation, it might very well be that it should mean Federation or whatever the writers intended, but it’s not a syncope and I damn wish people who have no clue about linguistics, grammar, phonology etc. would stop throwing around terms they have no clue what they mean, just because they heard it from a friend who was equally wrong.

Perhaps the crew make it back to the original time line, but the ship is left in the future. That ties into calypso, makes for a happy GR ending, and allows for Michelle Yoeh to have her own show. Of course none if this is planned out yet, but who knows.

Another less happy ending could be that they make their way to the mirror universe, perhaps to save the prime Lorca, or they land in a time between TOS and DS9 and are are responsible for the changes we see in the DS9 mirror universe. This would again allow for Yoeh to have her own show, this time completely independent of canon. She could serve as a connection between the two universes. Going between the two universes eems pretty easy by the time of DS9. Perhaps the talk of the new Sisko show will fit this all together.

They have repeatedly said they felt limited by Canon, the new Pike show will have the same issues. I don’t see them having a 3rd (Yoeh) show set in the same timeline. They will have to find a way to give Michelle Yeoh a show in a different time period (or different universe). Unless they kill off all of the Discovery crew (a very GOT type move), something has to done to have a nice trek ending.

There has been little talk of the Yoeh show in months. Perhaps it’s not going to happen afterall. I still hope it does, but all the talk is on the Pike show.

Doug Jones has stated in a recent interview the crew is going to stay in the 32nd century from this point on so that theory is out. That is their home now.

And yeah it’s no way they would have three shows set in the 23rd century. Discovery was already enough of a pain lol. The Section 31 show could still end up there but I’m guessing they have much bigger plans for it now and more than likely it will take place in another era or universe as you suggest.

My only guess is SNW will really be the only show that will be directly in the 23rd century again, at least pre-TOS. I have a feeling they learned their lesson with prequels and why all the other shows outside of it have all been 24th century base (although Prodigy could go farther into the future I suppose). A Pike show just had too much demand to avoid. And that can be a direct prequel to TOS which is what most fans want anyway.

Last edited 24 days ago by Tiger2

is that really a mystery? we knew it was coming from the moment the ship protected itself.