Three Theories About Kovich And What’s Next For Georgiou On ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ And Beyond

The following analysis has spoilers (and potential spoilers) for Discovery season three.

One of the fascinating characters introduced in last Thursday’s episode (“Die Trying“) was Kovich, a mysterious man played by legendary film director David Cronenberg. He has us—and many fans—thinking. Before we dive into theories, let’s first take a look at what we know for certain.

The facts: Kovich oversaw Georgiou’s “rigorous debrief”

Taking the scenes with Kovich at face value, we can assume that it was standard protocol for Terrans to get a “rigorous debrief,” which is why Emperor (and Section 31 operative) Phillipa Georgiou’s experience was different from that of her shipmates. In addition to the more aggressive nature of the debrief, it was the only one that had two hologram debriefers and the only one with anyone else present: Kovich, who appeared to be supervising the process. After Georgiou was able to deactivate the holograms, Kovich took over.

Georgiou getting debriefed by Kovich and two holograms

Kovich showed a keen interest in Georgiou, stating, “I’ve been fascinated with Terran history and methodology since I was a boy.” He was clearly an expert on the Mirror Universe and the history of the Terran Empire—as well as the physiology of Terrans. His holographic controls even showed a database that had an image of what appeared to be Georgiou’s flagship, the ISS Charon.

Kovich analyzes data as he talks to Georgiou

However, we think there is something more going on. And of course, we have theories, some of which aren’t mutually exclusive…

Theory 1: Kovich is the head of Section 31

Kovich’s holograms asked Georgiou about her connection to Control, perhaps testing her Section 31 loyalty. We know that Section 31 remained active into the 24th century, even after being exposed by Dr. Julian Bashir, so the organization could easily still exist in the 32nd century. And if there is a Section 31, Kovich seems to fit the bill as its leader.

Evidence: The uniforms. Kovich’s holograms had different uniforms than the other debriefers. If we assume that the other officers were being questioned by members of Starfleet security or Starfleet intelligence, then Kovich’s team was from some other branch, and this theory would suggest their uniforms are specific to Section 31. They were also very aggressive in their questioning, something that fits in tonally with Section 31. As for Kovich himself, he seemed well versed in the kind of mind games and manipulations that Section 31 leaders such as Sloan were known for.

Motivation: As the head of Section 31, Kovich could be looking to see if Georgiou would make a good addition to his team. He may also feel that her connection to the Mirror Universe can help him with some project, possibly related to The Burn.

Standard hologram debriefer (left) and one of Kovich’s hologram debriefers (right)

Theory 2: Kovich is President of the Federation

“Die Trying” started with the USS Discovery docking at a station that functioned as both Federation and Starfleet headquarters. Saru noted these are “separate entities that must abide together” in the difficult post-Burn era. Starfleet is the peacekeeping arm of the United Federation of Planets, which has always been governed by civilians. We met Admiral Vance who is the Commander-in-Chief of Starfleet, but we didn’t meet anyone from the civilian leadership of the Federation… or did we?

Evidence: Kovich’s attire. Unlike everyone else, Kovich wore civilian clothing, which could indicate he is part of that leadership, possibly even at the top level. That could also explain Kovich’s badge, which was uniquely gold, unlike the silver ones worn by Starfleet officers and holograms, including Admiral Vance.

Motivation: The Federation president could have just been curious about a Terran showing up, which he noted had not happened in over 500 years. His knowledge of Terrans could just be a hobby. Perhaps Kovich feels there is something to be gained by his struggling Federation from the Mirror Universe and he hopes that Georgiou can help him get access to the Mirror Universe. Another possibility could be that if Section 31 is no longer active, President Kovich might be interested in starting it up again with Georgiou’s help.

Admiral Vance (left) and Kovich (right)

Theory 3: Kovich is from the Mirror Universe

Even though Georgiou had had close contact with an AI that threatened to destroy the universe and was a member of Section 31, almost all the discussions with the holograms and Kovich had to do with the Terran Empire. Kovich knew quite a lot about the Empire, and obviously more about its history following the Emperor’s crossing over the 23rd century. This could come from a thorough study of all information garnered from those who have crossed over or interacted with those who had. However, he could have been working from first-hand knowledge.

Evidence: The glasses. Even by the 23rd century the need for corrective lenses was all but eliminated. When asked by Georgiou why he wore glasses, Kovich said, “They make me look smarter.” But one of the physiological differences between Terrans and humans from the Prime Universe was a sensitivity to light. The Mirror version of Captain Gabriel Lorca used eyedrops to deal with this, so maybe Mirror Kovich uses these glasses. Kovich also seemed to know how to handle Georgiou, and seemed unruffled by her no matter what she did.

Motivation: Perhaps Kovich wants to return home to the Mirror Universe, and thinks Georgiou can help him do it. This would be similar to how Mirror Lorca recruited Michael Burnham as part of his plan to return home. Kovich could be telling the truth that there hasn’t been a crossing in centuries—it’s possible he was that last crosser and jumped forward in time only to find himself in a century without any more time travel tech or means to get back to the Mirror Universe. In that case, he might believe Georgiou can somehow help him.

Kovich with his glasses

Our favorite theory?

With the limited information we have, theory number one is looking most likely. Kovich is head of Section 31, or possibly some new hybrid of Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31. But there is probably more to it than simple recruitment. He has an agenda that has yet to be revealed.

Something to keep an eye out for: What did Kovich do to Georgiou?

At the end of “Die Trying,” we saw Georgiou completely zoned out and a bit shaken. It took Michael several attempts to just get her attention. Given that the Emperor isn’t the contemplative type, this is likely something beyond simple preoccupation. Kovich and his holograms made it clear that they know a lot about Terrans down to a genetic level; it appears they have done something to her and we are seeing the side effects. They insinuated that the Terran nature was rooted in their biology (which Georgiou dismissed), but perhaps they attempted to manipulate this part of her. Based on the preview for next week’s episode, we will be seeing more of Georgiou and possibly more of these side effects. How this plays out can help refine our Kovich theory.

Georgiou zoned out at end of the episode

Moving beyond ‘Discovery’…Are they sowing the seeds for the Section 31 series?

At the beginning of 2019, CBS announced they were developing an untitled series starring Michelle Yeoh which “will expand on Yeoh’s current role as a member of Starfleet’s Section 31 division, a shadow organization within the Federation, on Star Trek: Discovery.” Since then, Discovery has jumped into the 32nd century, leaving behind the Section 31 that Georgiou was a part of. Executive producer Alex Kurtzman said in August that work continues on the Section 31 show and “people are going to be very surprised about the world that it occupies.”

When it became clear that Georgiou was jumping into the future with the Discovery, many wondered how she would return to the 23rd century and pick things up with Section 31, but perhaps she isn’t leaving at all. Keeping Michelle Yeoh’s Georgiou in the same century as Michael Burnham and the USS Discovery makes sense for a lot of reasons, so it’s quite possible that the 23rd century will be left to Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. Kurtzman’s “surprising” world could be this new future. Kovich could be recruiting Georgiou for his Section 31, or to perhaps reconstitute a new Section 31. It’s also possible Kovich wants Georgiou’s help in traveling to the Mirror Universe to set up Section 31 there, which could be a different surprising world to occupy.

CBS has yet to confirm if the Yeoh Section 31 project has moved from development to a pilot order or full series order. It’s possible they could introduce some elements of the Section 31 show on Star Trek: Discovery to gauge audience reaction and build buzz for the series.

Season 3 publicity photo for Georgiou

What do you think?

Are you as curious about Kovich as we are? Do you think he is just some guy interested in the Mirror Universe? Do you buy into any of our possible theories, or do you have your own? And what do you think is going on with Georiou? Sound off in the comments below.


New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery premiere on Thursdays on CBS All Access in the U.S. and on CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada, where it’s also available to stream on Crave. Episodes are available on Fridays internationally on Netflix.

Keep up with all the news and reviews from the new Star Trek Universe on TV at TrekMovie.com.

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I’m going for theory #3! He’s from the MU :)

Yeah, I’m with you on that. Can’t wait to see how this plays out!

How would that be if there has been no crossing between the universes on over 500 years? Unless Kovich is over 500 years old?

“Kovich and his holograms made it clear that they know a lot about Terrans down to a genetic level; it appears they have done something to her and we are seeing the side effects.”

That seems like a bit of a leap from what we’ve seen. She may just be shaken by the conversation.

That was my thought too. She’s spent a lot of time with the Discovery crew and seems to deeply care about Michael. Maybe she’s just disturbed by the conversation. Nothing more.

Georgiou isn’t the type to show her ruffled feathers. This was obviously something more, especially once you see the trailer for next week. My bet is that Kovich removed the genetic marker for being Terran, and now she’s starting to grow a conscience as she turns into a Prime Human. Once she’s changed, her knowledge and badassery can still be utilized, but she won’t be a threat on the same level to Starfleet and the Federation. As for who Kovich is, I’d be very surprised if he isn’t tied to section 31 because I know they’re setting up that show. How he’s tied to section 31 is another question, but head of 31 or power figure wanting to restart 31 are most like I think.

That looked like classic dissociation in Georgiou.

We’ve been shown that with Detmer but with a bit more of her perspective. So, we know the writers understand dissociation.

It seems like in Georgiou, they are showing us what it looks like on the outside without giving us her internal experience. This makes sense since, as Saru has noted, Georgiou lacks self awareness of the kinds of emotions and internal Terrans don’t usually experience: she doesn’t understand her attachment to Michael and she if she is suddenly processing empathy due to Kovich’s intervention, she’d have no coping skills.

Or maybe all of that conversation was just in her head.

My money is that Kovich was the last to cross over. And, yes, they are laying the groundwork for her Section 31 series.

Didn’t hit me until I read your post, but yes he could be both just like Georgiou, a terran who now works for Section 31.

And if so, maybe we’re also seeing someone who has been altered in some way as the episode was suggesting and his aggressive/evil nature was extracted and what they could be implying to do with Georgiou.

But I also remind people not everyone from the MU came off as angry and cut throat. On DS9 we saw plenty of normal acting terrans as well like O’Brien and Jennifer Sisko.

Last edited 17 days ago by Tiger2

And also in the first season of disco with commander Landry being nicer in the MU than in our universe

Yeah, another good example. It’s funny how Landry was more likable in the MU instead of the PU. But I think Discovery is just going to go with that idea that is how all terrans are by nature…literally.

Big whoa…

What if MU O’Brien and Jennifer were descended from Prime Universe ancestors who crossed over and had empathy?

That would be interesting! But then that would open up a new can of worms since it would be implying people from the PU have been secretly crossing over since Kirk’s time and staying there permanently (or long enough lol). At this point, anything is possible I guess.

We never found out what MU O’Brien’s hobby was.

My four theories on who Kovich is:

-Section 31 operative

-Temporal Agent

-Terran

-Q (yeah, a bit of a stretch but you never know ;))

But yes my #1 theory like the article states is that he is more than likely from Section 31 or some new form of it. And I been saying for literally over a year now that the new show probably will take place in this time period given all the things we know about this era. A few good reasons why this makes sense to me:

A. If there is any era that needs Section 31 it’s certainly this one where Federation don’t have the resources to face threats head on and probably have many enemies out there that wants to take it down for good now that it’s less powerful. And it can explore areas of the Federation and probably other areas of the galaxy now.

B. And imagine the crazy toys they will have at their disposal. One of the (once again) many problems about having Discovery and Section 31 in the 23rd century was that it just came off way too advanced for its period. Yes, S31 is obviously supposed to be more advanced but it’s more advanced than S31 in the 24th century. There was no time travel suits, advanced A.I. supercomputers, bases or sleek ships in the 24th century. Here you can have all of that and more. Of course what’s more funny is if you took all the stuff we saw of Section 31 in Discovery and place it here, it would make total sense lol. Not a single thing would feel out of place, including its close working relationship to Starfleet, because it’s the future, anything is now possible again. Another reason why going forward in this show just makes things soooooo much easier since its clear the writers seem to think they were writing for a post-Voyager show with Discovery anyway. Which leads into C.

C. The very little rumors we have about the show is that it could be a multiverse or maybe a time based premise. If either are true then once again it would just make much much more sense Section 31 would have that kind of technology and resources in this era and not the 23rd century. We know all time travel tech was destroyed, at least officially. But this is S31 we’re talking about, so they may have kept a few things in the closet. ;)

And frankly it’s just a lot more fun to keep it in this era. It’s weird now to see how so many people were against this show a few months ago, but ever since last week with this scene, now everyone seems super excited about the prospect lol. Many still seem to hate Space Hitler but maybe this season the show is going to deal with that and her past head on. I’m really looking forward to seeing what happens with her now. Two weeks ago I couldn’t care less.

A reformed Georgiou multi-universing in the 32nd century just sounds like crazy crazy fun! Please make this happen!!

Last edited 17 days ago by Tiger2

I’d be aboard for the ride too.

I like the idea that Kovich was the last to cross from the MU, is now the head of S31 and for some reason has an agenda back in the MU that he doesn’t want to or personally cannot lead.

And I’m now fully understanding why Kurtzman was reportedly frustrated with CBSAA rescheduling and pushing back production on this series vs. SNW.

With COVID-19, it’s mostly water under the bridge, but I sincerely hope that they have lost their priority on Cronenberg’s time. He’s committed to another 8-episode series that’s going into production.

Anyway, Kurtzman and Kadin said to trust them. They hadn’t built up the trust capital with fans yet, but it sounds like they do have a wildly brilliant plan.

Last edited 17 days ago by TG47

If a S31 show really happens in this vain where Georgiou stays in this era and we have someone like Kovich basically being a, wait for it, mirror to her, then it would suddenly make that show a lot more interesting than just having Georgiou return to the 23rd century and continue the show in the same ridiculous manner S31 was presented there.

A Discovery season 2 S31 show feels so wrong on so many levels and exactly why so many of us haven’t exactly embraced the idea fully. A Discovery season 3 S31 show however can throw in possibilities none of us has ever dreamed of because it now has the freedom to do literally whatever it wants. Even if Cronenberg himself is not involved beyond a few episode this season, his character can open the door to so much more. She could even replace him if it came to that.

Again, these are literally the reasons why so many of us wanted Star Trek to really go forward again. Everything I been begging for Star Trek to do for 20 years now is finally happening. It didn’t have to be the 32nd century but a show 100 years post Voyager can push the franchise in so many ways it couldn’t before. And it’s great to see the writers taking full advantages of it. We’re only five episodes in and I have not been this excited for Star Trek since Voyager went off the air. I thought I was going to feel that way with Picard and I did at the beginning, but still not quite the same I’m feeling with this show. Because I’m just excited to see a truly redefined Federation which we don’t know where most of it stands or where its all going at the end up as.

There is so much potential they can tap here for years on end unlike returning to the 23rd and 24th century where the universe is basically set in those periods.

Last edited 17 days ago by Tiger2

It just occurred to me that CBS may have been looking for these kinds of backdoor pilots to demonstrate audience interest before greenlighting series.

This is the second season in a row where fans have suddenly stood up (metaphorically) and said “Yup, that! Didn’t think we wanted anything like that, but yes that will work and we want it asap.”

I wonder how long it will take before it’s got a petition and it’s own Twitter account pushing ViacomCBS to make an announcement…

I think you’re right. Again, we don’t know if her story line is directly related to Section 31 but considering how much they set up that organization in season 2, it would be odd if it was completely avoided this season knowing she was suppose to have her own show right after this one.

I don’t think most fans didn’t want a S31 show so much as they didn’t want Georgiou herself in it and for it to fall in line what we saw in Discovery.

But if they said we were going to get a S31 show starring a young Sloan in the 24th century, the fans would’ve been all over that.

But I think if they can make Georgiou a bit less eye rolling and put it in a new era where they can just go crazy with it, then it can really work.

Who wouldn’t want a Section 31 show. Goody Tooty Starfleet can get a little boring at times.

Go away loser.

Don’t make me report you.

Trekmovie, this guy was banned before. Why is he still here????

I have simply asked him to leave me alone and he just wants to do is keep trolling. This is what he did last time. I just want this troll to stop responding to me. That’s all. But he won’t.

Last edited 15 days ago by Tiger2

Trump lost, get over it. Take your anger somewhere else.

Last edited 13 days ago by A34

Dude, you were banned. Stop responding to me loser. Seriously Trekmovie, this guy is a troll and who you banned long ago. Why is he still here?

Last edited 13 days ago by Tiger2

If a S31 show really happens in this vain where Georgiou 

To quote Carly Simon, “you’re so vain, you probably think this show is about you.”

Everything I been begging for Star Trek to do for 20 years now is finally happening.

Definitely channeling some Carly Simon there.

Love that song!

And I been saying for literally over a year now

As opposed to figuratively over a year? (I kid… I’m just not sure why you said “literally.”)

I just wanted to get across I wasn’t being hyperbolic, I have been saying this since the first trailer of season 3 dropped. Once I heard the Federation was going to be in shambles, it sounded like the perfect place for a S31 show. That said, I’m still prepared to be completely wrong. ;)

Nah, I’m the one who gets accused of being hyperbolic for saying that feature films have been DOA since beyond….

LOL that’s true.

Sadly looks like you’re going to stay right for a long time as well.

Kovich is almost definitely Section 31. The all-black John Wick outfit pretty much gives it away too ;)
 
Just building on some things people downthread have suggested, I have a few more thoughts you may find interesting:
 
+ The “mysterious music” might not be the only element from BSG; taking a page from BSG’s “Pegasus” two-parter, including the “welcome back to the fleet” parallels, the Federation and Starfleet at this point may actually turn out to be the bad guys. Part of the twist will be the Discovery gang, er, discovering that and trying to figure out how to deal with it/fix it once the shock has sunk in.
 
+ The alleged real-life “men in black” apparently wear anachronistic antiquated mostly-black outfits, they have somewhat strange eyes, and they can be very threatening and intimidating when interrogating people who have witnessed UFOs and aliens. Alex Kurtzman has said the setting of the Section 31 show will come as a surprise. Here’s a guess: It’s going to be set in “our time”, and Kovich’s attire and behaviour are references to his alleged real-life counterparts — which the show will depict as Section 31 agents and may involve some kind of time-travel aspect too.
 
+ Kurtzman has also said some people online have correctly figured out aspects of the Section 31 show. I’m going to double-down on my previous suggestion that the show might involve time-travelling Section 31 agents deliberately inciting problems on 21st century Earth as a build-up to World War 3 and subsequently First Contact with the Vulcans.

I think it’s been pretty clear from the moment we met him that he runs Section 31. I thought it was obvious that this is how they’re going to spin off the Section 31 show, so it surprises me to see people even debating this.

Last edited 17 days ago by His Name Is Rios

Well because until someone just says the words Section 31, we still don’t really know, right? Yes, all the indicators are looking that way, but maybe the show is doing that to deliberately lead us astray to hide its true purpose too. That’s certainly a possibility at least.

But yes most of us anyway assumes he is from Section 31. We also knew originally the S31 show was supposed to start filming literally right after Discovery’s third season was shot. Maybe due to Covid and probably pushing it back since SNW had the bigger demand from fans changed all that, but Discovery started shooting in July of 2019, so probably the intention then was to set up Georgiou for her new show and to have that show probably originally come out not too far after Discovery season 3 had aired. The probably were thinking this year or next. That clearly doesn’t seem to be the case now but the storyline in season 3 probably haven’t changed at all and will set her up for her show.

If we are getting a 32nd century Section 31 show, I’m very very intrigued. And I just want to see this era built up just like the 24th century was done (and still being done ;)).

Last edited 17 days ago by Tiger2

I thought he was with Section 31, too. (And I can’t stand this obsession that Kurtzman has with Section 31, but that’s another discussion.)

However, I also thought the implication was that Kovic was a hologram or android or Dahj-like synthetic, and that the glasses in some way shielded him from Georgiou’s eye-blinking method of terminating holograms. The very wierd makeup that the character sported bolsters this idea.

Interesting approach. Kovich and his glasses. But I have been asking myself the same question for Phillipa. Why she seems not very sensitive as Lorca? No scenes seeing her having issues with light.

First time to see film director David Cronenberg, this guy is really cool, his character, the debrief/interrogation, I had to watch this scene for few times, trying to figure it out what happened with the Emperor.

Writing is improving. I really like where they are heading. Can’t wait for Thursday. =D

We never saw mirror Kirk having issues with light, nor any of the DS9 Terrans that crossed over.

This idea of a biological basis to the Mirror Universe is…odd. Odd to put it mildly, as in “midichlorians-control-the-Force” odd.

If the idea is that some key historical event triggered, such as Germany winning WWII a split in the two universes, there should be no biological difference between the two.

Last edited 17 days ago by The River Temarc

Genetic differences make perfect sense depending on WHEN they split off from each other. Romulans and Vulcans were once the same species, evolution changed them to the point that they are now different species. Assuming the split between the MU and PU was a very long time ago, I’d be more surprised if there weren’t genetic differences. You can even see this kind of thing on Earth with one species that will have two very different variants native to different continents.

Keep in mind that none of the mirror characters on TOS, DS9 or ENTERPRISE did either. The fact that Lorca was light-sensitive due to being from that universe makes no sense in light of prior shows.

We didn’t see much of the MU characters actually in the Prime Universe environment.

Most of those episodes took place in the MU itself. More, in the case of DS9, I’m not confident that the station had Earth normal lighting. It was pretty dim everywhere.

I think because Starfleet is so much weaker in the 32nd they need Section 31 more than ever to fight dirty wars against Orions and Andorians. He’s the head of Section 31.

Personally I’d watch the Section 31 series if it was only these two characters in it, so I’m hoping he’s the boss! Would be even better if Cronenberg was involved in the production somehow.

I want to see a Cronenberg type transporter accident

From the first moment I saw him I said, Section 31

Thanks for profiling that header photo TrekMovie.

When I saw it in the BTS tweet for 305, I thought to myself that it looked more like a promotional or production still more than a BTS shot — similar to the shot with Spock and Number One that was shared as “behind-the-scenes” , but now is used in the media promotions for SNW.

At the end, when Michael was attempting to get Georgiou’s attention, I believe she was just disturbed by the facts that Kovich laid out. Mainly the fact that the Empire doesn’t exist anymore.

While we know that Terrans can be heartless & only care for themselves, maybe Georgiou’s time with Discovery and Michael have led her down a path, to where she actually cares now.

Is this guy really wearing an old fashioned suit and tie, 1000 years hence? Well, I guess in this case it’s in character and goes right with the glasses since he thinks dressing medieval makes him look cool ;)

Last edited 17 days ago by Vulcan Soul

Check out the knot of that tie. It’s molded, maybe a device of some kind. I only just noticed.

Yeah it did look odd to me. I sure hope there is more to this, and the glasses, than the characters eccentrics and (wink wink nudge nudge) Cronenberg!

Perhaps Kovic has figured out how to physically extract evil from biological life forms, the way Armus did in “Skin of Evil.” This would allow Georgiou to shed the “Space Hitler” aspect of her character, which is the only way she will be at all sympathetic.

Last edited 17 days ago by The River Temarc

I had the same idea. It’s the only way I could see her being a viable character. Genetic editing should be a piece of cake with their tech, and because they’ve isolated the gene(s) that create the bad terran behavior, removing it should be quite easy. The question is does Georgiou know what she’s had done to her?

It the space Hitler aspect of her character that make her effective as a section 31 operative.

I don’t really like the idea that Discovery is actually answering the “nature” versus “nurture” debate over the Mirror Universe. If what Kovic says is true, then it is “nature.” Certainly, Season 1 already laid some of the groundwork for “nature” with the sensitivity to light nonsense. I just would have preferred it to remain an open question.

With that said, I am not sure anyone would ever really believe she could somehow overcome her bad nurturing to become more like her sympathetic Prime Universe counterpart. I originally liked the idea that, once placed in the Prime Universe without the same barbaric pressures for survival, Georgiou may be able to nurture her goodness and redeem herself. I feel like that ship may have sailed though, since they have shown little internal conflict in her thus far, aside from her attachment to Micheal perhaps.

It is probably easier to believe that some future tech could write the evil DNA out of her through genetic manipulation. That her “nature” could than suddenly change and that it give rise to internal conflict. I just wish they had been clever enough to show her nurture some morsel of goodness within on her own instead of having her evil nature genetically driven out of her. It’s like a scientific exorcism or something.

We can’t say for sure where the writers are headed, but genetic manipulation seems the most likely path to her redemption. Why else would they bring it up? It just seems too easy and makes it less relevant to me.

Last edited 16 days ago by Locutus

The morsel of goodness is that Georgiou has been able to attach to another human being and care about that person’s survival and wellbeing.

As Kovich said, why else would Georgiou have restrained herself from taking over everything in sight in the Prime Universe?

I think Kovich is future Section 31, who for some reason is acting on Orders left from Giorgiou of the past…
Hear me out…. didn’t Kovich say to Georgiou “This is your 2nd Universe and your 3rd time period”…… So time period #1 is season 1 & 2…. Time period #2 is 32nd century & Time period #3 is 70 years before the events of season 1 & 2….. I think Georgiou will go back in time with Discovery (for the section 31 series) abandoning everyone in the future….
Park up Discovery in the nebula, to keep it safe from Control and 1000 years later the events of “Calypso” will take place… and then The crew will find Discovery and then ” hey presto” They get the ship back….

Why 70 years before the events of season 1 & 2? I feel like I’m missing something.

Its her third Time Period because they timejumped whey left the mu

The time jump from the mu was only about 9 months, so really still time period #1…. a bit like Burnham and Discovery arriving in the same time period #2 in the 32nd Century, but one year apart..

You need to see the Short Trek episode “Calypso” where Discovery had been abandoned for 1000 years.

Section 31 seems most obvious with Michelle getting a spin-off show based on it. Kurtzman even said that people will be surprised by the setting of the Section 31 show and that nobody has guessed it yet. We are starting to get some clues about that unexpected setting now.

Last edited 17 days ago by Michael K

Maybe he was born in the prime universe, but he has a distant Terran ancestor who crossed over 500 years ago. That would explain why he is so fascinated by the Terrans, but why he also seems somewhat dismissive of Terran philosophy.

This idea has traction with me Legate Damar.

I keep tripping up on the intersection of the fact that the last (admitted) cross-over was 500 years ago but that Federation and/or Starfleet and/or S31 scientists only discovered the hidden difference in Terrans within the last century or so.

This suggests that there are either stored tissues or living humans with Terran genetics in the Prime Universe. Otherwise, why and how would it be relevant?

A subatomic cellular difference that can reproduce outside the specific physics of the MU would be an interesting twist.

And the timing of the scientific discovery seems awfully coincidental with The Burn.

Last edited 17 days ago by TG47

I dont like the idea that The Burn has something to do with the Mirror Universe. It smells of more “clever writing’ the likes we got plenty in season 1 (abort the Klingon War for a romp in the MU, then resolve it completely unsatisfactorily in the last episode).

I have a dark horse theory. Well, technically it’s one I’ve seen elsewhere so I guess it isn’t totally left-field. Kovich is a temporal agent. The way the scripts keep mentioning how time travel is a crime in the 32nd century, Kovich’s fondness for very outdated aesthetic could even link his birth to our own time. (How exactly that would work is anyone’s guess.)

Also, I’m thinking Kovich took Georgiou’s “upgrade your software” suggestion to heart and the Georgiou we saw at the end of “Die Trying” is some kind of AI.

Cronenberg’s character reminds me of Gary Seven from Assignment:Earth episode ofT.O.S. I kept looking for a black cat. Not saying that he is Seven but is connected to him possibly . Isis vs.Georgeou. lmao.

Either way I would definately watch this. And I hope Disco expands into its character development and be less of the ” Mikey Spock” show.

Good point.

Some of us were speculating about Gary Seven back in the spring and summer, but we seem to have lost track of the thought recently other than in theories about Grudge the cat.

Given how far we are in the future from the 23rd, let alone the 20th, century, it’s more than possible that Gary Seven’s organization, the intertemporal police, and S31 are all effectively into the same organization.

Interesting theories.

On a bit of different note: I now want Cronenberg to direct Trek as well, be it episodes or a movie. I think this might be more interesting and “unusual” than Tarantino directing Trek.

I admit I find the idea of Cronenberg directing an S31 episode tempting.

I am concerned though that it might get too far from Trek ethos.

That said, Cronenberg’s extremes have generally had some deeper thinking about the relationship between humanity and technology grounding them while Tarantino seems to enjoy appalling the audience for its own sake at times.

So, I could see a Cronenberg take on Trek as a legitimate experiment, in the spirit of TOS bringing in authors like Harlan Ellison to push the SciFi thinking.

The key would be to either have Cronenberg work from a script written by the regular writers, even if he inputs on the story, or to fence whatever Cronenberg does off from other products in the franchise.

Last edited 16 days ago by TG47

No, no. Cronenberg should direct an SNW episode. The episodic format and “Strange New Worlds” premise is ideal for returning to the “Outer Limits” vibe we occasionally got in TOS – and that’s Cronenberg in a nutshell!

While we’re at it, they should add a more diverse roster of serious scifi directors and writers (in the original sense of the word!) And even return to the open script policy.

One can dream, no?

Last edited 16 days ago by Vulcan Soul

This is also a good idea. I’d love to see guys like Andy Weir, John Scalzi, Timothy Zahn to write for Trek.

I believe that they will be obliged to take spec scripts once the show is established.

WGA rules require that for episodic series a certain percentage of scripts be from freelancers.

Since Discovery and Picard are serialized, this WGA rule hasn’t applied, but the light serialization of character arcs for SNW won’t be enough for them to keep it all in the writers room.

Oh, that is most excellent! There has been much criticism in the past about interference “from above” but after seeing the result without that, I have to reassess and admit much of it was benovelent and led to a better product!

She was rattled because he outsmarted her. It also appears she is a time traveler from the 32nd century somehow. Talk about multiple timelines and such. How else would she know how to disable a 32nd century hologram?

“How else would she know how to disable a 32nd century hologram?”

Because the hacks wrote it that way?

*SCNR*

Don’t forget about the badge she broke for parts

Most likely 1, but am not discounting 3.

I hate to admit it, but as of this episode I am now compelled by the Section 31 series — which I previously didn’t understand the point of and had no interest in. But this appeared to be laying the groundwork for a really fascinating character arc for Georgiou that I can’t wait to see play out. Kovich was so sinister and creepy and it was so compelling to watch the power shift from Georgiou to Kovich.

Tangent theory …. Did the MU suffer the Burn? If not, then the MU has dilithium… So, Kovich wants to use Georgiou to get access to the MU so the Prime Universe can nick their dilithium and the Federation then becomes the most mobile interstellar force in town which everyone has to kowtow to if they want to re establish interstellar travel.

There should be many other less remote strands of the multiverse if the Federation seriously wanted to use theft as an approach to bring dilithium back to the galaxy.

That does make one wonder where the Andorian/Orion traders get dilithium from though. Is the Emerald Chain stealing from other universes?

“That does make one wonder where the Andorian/Orion traders get dilithium from though. Is the Emerald Chain stealing from other universes?”

This is why rooting the end of warp travel in this particular premise (resource depletion) is such a cop-out. You only need to think one minute about it to see it doesnt jive with canon. It’s kind of like the sillly “water as rare resource” premise in Voyager season 1.For the water, just pick a different planet! For the dilithium, just pick a different universe!

For those devoid of ethics, sure.

The people in the adjacent universes need their dilithium too.

“For those devoid of ethics, sure.”

In short, Section 31! That might be the storyline here.

This ignore the end scene, The Empress look like she was in some sort of trance. She seriously unnerve by him.

We also got the music mystery, that will clearly be central to the story going on.

I think Kovich tested something on our terran friend, something which he knows is affecting the rest of the galaxy and it has something to do with the music. I suspect she didn’t turn out to be immune as he had hope. An now georgiou is under the control of who ever behind the music.

I believe Kovich was already waiting for Discovery and Georgiou. A true intelligence section, like Section 31, does not discard information. Discovery was destroyed for the formal Federation, but Section 31 was not. The two stories were recorded there.
My theory is that Kovich is a Section 31 agent who was assigned to look after Georgiou, for his expertise. He may be from the Mirror Universe, but he is an agent. And, possibly, to obtain more information about the burning, as well as to assist the resumption of the Federation.

Section 31 probably doesn’t care that time travel is “outlawed”. I mean, they don’t care about anything else, so why would they?

Last edited 16 days ago by Vulcan Soul

Why hasn’t bright light been a problem for Georgiou? She doesn’t use eye drops, does she?

Could The Burn have been an attack against the Prime Universe by a reborn Terran Empire?

The Burn did not necessarily happen in the MU, meaning that a restored Empire could have the upper-hand in an attack against Starfleet.

Kovich could be disguised as an alien intent on destroying all humans. He sees the evil In Georgiou to help him do it

Here’s another theory – the “glasses make me look smart” comment was simply a jokey Doctor Who tribute, and no more should be made of it than that.

…or, he’s a Time Lord?

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Honestly I’m leaning towards him being an El–Aurian Section 31 agent & he has first hand memories of these events.

Oh, I like this theory and yeah he could definitely be an El-Aurian :))

Kovich is “future guy” from Enterprise.

If it wasn’t for COVID-19, Section 31 would have already been filmed. I’m thinking in early 2021 the show will officially announced.

He could also be a Q

I wonder if Georgiou was completely taken off guard because she learned that Section 31 is completely comprised of Terrans… that the Burn was caused by a mass migration from the Mirror Universe when something catastrophic happened, like a universal collapse.

Georgiou would be stunned to hear that her universe is no more, and that Section 31 is the remainder of the Terran people working to re-establish a new Terran Empire.

After all, we have a Seed Ship in play (we haven’t seen the last of Nhan), a mysterious melody, a new Section 31 series in the works, the V’Draysh… what if they are all connected? I don’t know how, but I think the Terrans need something, probably a planet or sanctuary, and Georgiou was suddenly frighteningly aware she might have to fight her own people to save Burnham and Discovery…

And maybe the melody people hear tells them that they are sleeper agents of the new Terran Empire (a little like Battlestar Galactica’s the Five…)

Last edited 16 days ago by Mark Anderson

Is Georgiou Control??

I don’t think so. She’d make a frightening original Borg Queen, but I don’t think she is. As I said, I think she was stunned by the revelation about something…

I think he is from both the MU and the head of section 31. He might have been the emperor and could have fled through the looking glass. After all s$!t happens in the future.
I was wondering why the Discovery crew didn’t change into the new uniforms and upgrade the ship to 32nd century standards.

Some programmable matter upgrades are coming this week, but I think we will see either at the end of this season or the next that Star Fleet adopts the Discovery uniforms as a way of going back to their roots, and that Discovery will become the flagship.

I guess he’s Terran, but genetically altered to be peaceful.

My theory: it’s none of these things. He is part of the Federation and wants to exploit Georgiou’s knowledge of the mirror universe and use Discovery in order to raid the MU for dilithium.

I really hope he doesn’t have any of these secret agendas, personally. It would be more compelling if he was just a high-ranking Federation member doing his job and trying to neutralize Georgiou as a threat.

Better question is how georgiou knew how to shut down the holo’s? The fact is everything has advanced 930 years so this technology should have been updated from her time line…unless she is returning to her true time line. And why has noone thought that georgiou might be a hologram at this point. Another question is how she knows how to “break down( kovich’s) badge for parts” after witch he tells her she has all the skills. As far as the burn it didn’t effect a system or a quadrant but the whole Galaxy that is definitely a Q possibly a terran Q

Section 31 taking place in the Mirror Universe version of the 23rd century would be very surprising and fascinating indeed!

I’m thinking that the temporal accords may not apply for transits to other universes.

But there may be another version of the Prime Directive that prohibits Starfleet from messing up other universes and timelines.

However, if there is evidence that the Burn was caused by interference from another universe or timestream, S31 would be able to sidestep the Prime Directive to protect the Federation in the Prime Universe.

Kovich is a civilian politician who has become annoyed at the federation’s way of doing things, he wants the federation to become more aggressive and reassert control of the galaxy. But to do that he needs to rise to power, whats the best way to do that? Recruit a Terran to his cause.

Federation President? What are you talking about? His badge looks exactly like Vance’s but has only 1 pip as opposed to Vance’s 5.

I have a theory that the Federation is now the aggressor using its resources to hold territory and assimilate worlds that refuse to be conquered. The burn was an attempt to stop the Federation from expanding. The Andorians and Orions are putting up a resistance with their Emerald Chain. There seems to be chaos in the galaxy. Admiral Vance admits that the Federation no longer has the luxury to perform its mission to explore. The reasonable assumption is that the Federation is in a war. But with who? Admiral Vance says the Andorians and Orions are becoming more brazen by the day through clinched teeth, as if they do not know their place. The Federation is working to hold on to whatever remains of their space. And Admiral Vance is keeping Discovery in the dark about the status of things in the galaxy.

But Kovich is the exact opposite of Admiral Vance, he is patient, thoughtful, and strategic. While standing in the interrogation room overseeing the interview of Phillipa Georgiou, he looks at her through blinking eyes. Georgiou seems to get the message, and she starts blinking at the holograms shutting them down. Once they are out of the way the interrogation continues, but much more subtly. Through their conversation Kovich determines Georgiou’s motivation for joining Discovery, there is someone on the ship that she cares about. What if that person is in danger? What if that person is in danger because Discovery itself is in danger? What if Discovery is in danger because the Federation is ready to use it and its technology to resume its goal of complete control of the galaxy? Kovich has studied the Terran universe and he can see the same mistakes being made in this universe and wants to stop it before it gets too far out of hand. This would be an ideal mission for a secret organization such as Section 31.

Do we know if Cronenberg was hired to be in multiple episodes?

There doesn’t seem to be any information either way.

“Hey…Werner Herzog is in The Mandalorian!”
“Wut?”
“Yeah!”
“He’s a director, not an actor!”
“…”
“…Well who can we get?”

Extract from The Making Of Star Trek: Discovery

Cronenberg > Herzog

I have gone back and re-watched the interview between Georgiou and Kovich and it is great. He is such an interesting character. I have always liked some of his movies. I really like The Dead Zone. I hope he keeps coming back over and over again. Would like to see where they are going with him. I would like to see the Jake Weber come revist. His scene in that second episode was tense. He is a really good actor. Would like seeing him again and I hope Oded Fehr comes back too.

Whose grandma is that wearing the glasses?

Ha! Yeah, he looks pretty ghastly, but what is to be expected of a guy who made films like RABID, SCANNERS, VIDEODROME, THE FLY (1986 version), NAKED LUNCH, eXistenZ, THE BROOD, and so forth. He was great when I was into overly pretentious, violent and gory sci-fi/horror movies. No more. Cynicism is the cancer of the soul.

What do I think? I like Yeoh but I can’t stomach the Emperor becoming a protagonist. Would you pluck Stalin from the 1940s and make him part of the crew?

I noticed there is an upcoming episode titled “Unification III”. Perhaps a tie in with Unification Pt1&2 from TNG? The underground movement that started on Romulus has had 900 years to progress was my first thought – and then I had another idea – what if Discovery 930 years along is the future to the Alternate timeline created in the Star Trek Movie reboot?! Vulcan is destroyed and maybe the Unification has taken place on Romulus and that’s why we haven’t seen any Vulcans in the future Federation. Also, it gets this future Discovery out of the Prime Universe future and restores fans faith in the franchise. Lastly, I’m starting to think the Burn was a Federation experiment or weapon that went wrong. Perhaps trying to disable warp travel for a superior enemy but instead affecting everyone, or a desperate effort to level the playing field in a losing war. Also, no Borg in the 32nd Century? We’re they defeated, wiped out? 900 years on and the Federation hasn’t developed Transwarp?? Still running on 1000 year old dilithium warp tech?