Review: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Searches For Parts In “Scavengers”

“Scavengers”

Star Trek: Discovery Season 3, Episode 6 – Debuted Thursday, November 19, 2020
Teleplay by Anne Coffell Saunders
Directed by Doug Aarniokoski

SPOILER-FREE REVIEW

A mixed bag of an episode with some excellent action and fun character moments interspersed with sequences that drag down the momentum. David Ajala returns to liven things up, leaving us wanting more. In the end, it may be better than the sum of its parts but “Scavengers” feels mostly like a setup for things to come as we approach the season’s half-way point.

Look out Owo, your console is a shapeshifter!

 

 

WARNING: Spoilers below!

“Welcome back to the fleet, Discovery”

Jumping forward three weeks to give the crew and ship time to upgrade with cool 32nd-century gizmos, we are settling in with the new Starfleet. The Discovery—with its shiny new NCC-1031-A registration—is now Admiral Vance’s on-call rapid-response ship, thanks to the now reclassified super-double-secret spore drive. While other captains are handed out various milk runs, Saru is to prep to take on the Emerald Chain bad guys if things go south in the Argeth system… and in this century, compasses all point south.

The hint of a rift between Michael and Saru grows after Book’s ship shows up on its own, complete with one cat and no captain. Book is on the Emerald Chain planet Hunhau and he has found a clue to The Burn, but Grudge showing up solo means he is in trouble. Of course, Michael 3.0 is going to ignore orders and go after him, and of course Emperor “you had me at unsanctioned mission” Georgiou is coming with.

I can never find the on button for these floating holograms

“I’m not leaving you”

Turns out Book is stuck on a salvage yard of a planet where slaves pick over ancient ships, all under the somewhat dimwitted eye of one of Osyraa’s nephew. On the trip out we got some nice banter with Georgiou and Michael, each one getting under the other’s skin. Georgiou is also showing more signs that she came out of her Kovich interrogation a bit messed up and is suffering from Mirror Universe flashbacks. This is all nice character stuff and well played, but there is no time for all that as we need to ramp up for a good old-fashioned prison break.

Six episodes in, and we finally find a purpose for Georgiou, acting as Michael’s evil whisperer to talk their way into this invite-only planet, posing as a bigshot antiques collector with dilithium to burn. Phillipa keeps Greenie McNepotism busy while Michael works out the escape plan with Book, who inexplicably starts off by demurring, but soon escalates to leading a massive prison escape. In addition to finding an anachronistically-named “black box” that is neither black, nor a box, Cleveland has made some new friends, including an exiled Andorian named Ryn.  The goal is to get the controls to the head-exploding perimeter fence, but even after the Emperor MacGyvers a gun out of spare parts, she and Michael get captured.

I’ll give you this if you will pretend to be my dead daughter

“I don’t think you’re crazy”

Back on the renovated Disco, Paul Stamets has some bonding time with the tween Trill wunderkind Adira, who wins the curmudgeon over with an upgrade to his navigation cube, allowing him to lose the arm interface things that were so damned itchy. Adira has also accepted that her dead boyfriend Gray will be her constant companion and hype ghost, although he is frustrated by having to view the world solely through her limited perspective. In a nice moment of candor, Adira spills the symbiote beans that she sees dead people—or person—and Stamets immediately believes her; he’s been to other universes and planes of existence, so a Trill “soul” vision is actually low on his weird meter. We begin to see the well publicized but still impressive chemistry with Anthony Rapp and Blu del Barrio. However, the moments with Gray feel a bit forced. And this bit where no one can see or hear Gray—“He says he likes you”—threatens to get old fast.

After some fun with Tilly showing Grudge how much she’s not a cat person, we get some good stuff with her and Saru returning to their command training mentoring dynamic. It’s nice to see some character growth for Tilly, who is learning to put the ship and crew ahead of her friendships, and also nice to see Mary Wiseman get to act beyond frazzled quips for comic relief. Instead, this episode uses the delightful David Benjamin Tomlinson to lighten things up, as Linus inappropriately pops in and out of scenes throughout, unable to get a handle on his new personal transporter. Tilly convinces Saru to reveal Michael’s insubordination to Admiral Vance, even though it breaks his heart.

Best thing about imaginary friends, they never steal food off your tray

“Time to face the firing squad”

Over on the slave planet, the Orion nephew shows Michael and Phillipa who’s boss by boarding their ship to steal their dilithium, but he has fallen into that trap of not knowing that Michelle Yeoh knows kung fu. After Emperor has another badly timed MU flashback that almost ends the prison planet uprising, she kicks her way back into focus, turns off the perimeter fence, and everyone gets out thanks to a nicely-paced action sequence highlighted by David Ajala competing with his own ship to see which can be cooler while erasing a significant portion of the Emerald Chain’s roster. Team Michael returns home, with Book, the black box, and an injured Ryn. All this excitement and reunion results in the big kiss between Michael and Cleveland that not even a Linus interruption could stop. Let’s hope this love connection works out better than her last boyfriend.

Saru and Admiral Vance aren’t nearly as enamored with the Discovery’s first officer and her self-appointed fetch quest mission, although Vance admits the intel she gathered may have been worth it, losing Saru some points. This leaves the Kelpien in a no-win situation, but he (and actor Doug Jones) rise to the occasion in a Picard moment, reminding her that being a Starfleet officer is all “about trust.” Coming full circle, Michael’s well-intentioned rule-breaking strips her of the position of first officer, and more importantly, Saru’s respect. This being Discovery, we end with some light crying.

You were right, the carpet matches the drapes

ANALYSIS

Breaking in

There are a lot of tasty morsels in “Scavengers,” but in the end, it doesn’t add up to a satisfying meal. Often the curse of mid-season outings in heavily serialized shows, this episode feels more like a setup for things to come, something past seasons of Discovery have suffered from but season three had avoided so far. On the plus side, the prison break action was entertaining, albeit too brief. Breaking one of our hero team members out of custody is a time-honored Trek tradition, but with so many plates spinning, we didn’t get the fun elaborate planning this subgenre is known for.

Writer Anne Cofell Saunders showed some of her impressive Battlestar Galactica, The Boys (and more) pedigree, sprinkling into all that action some strong moments of growth and humor. However, likely due to being a newcomer in season three, her episode makes some of our heroes feel a bit out of character. And for our new character Adira, we get very little of the Trill mythology witnessed in “Forget Me Not,” unless you count her awkward old man mock channeling “those kids and their crazy chaos.” Have we forgotten so soon, there is a real old man in there somewhere among the “circle” of other former hosts?

Are the voices in my head disturbing you?

But in the end, the important moments landed. Adira is slowly easing her way into the crew, with her sympatico awkward genius Paul as a guide. Michael’s betrayal of Saru and her slowly slipping away from Starfleet—at least in terms of rules, if not ideals—feels right with everything we know. The chemistry between Book and Michael is electric, so much so that it’s hard to believe they took this long to actually kiss, and no amount of spinning cameras and swelling music is going to convince us otherwise.

Demoted again… been there, done that

Small world

As for our season arc storyline, “Scavengers” was very much a bridge but somewhat to nowhere as she just handed the McGuffin off without even a peek. It’s almost cruel to go through all this and have Michael pay such a price and not even give us a hint as to what it was all about. And as a side note, how did no one not once think to compare ship logs to triangulate the source of The Burn before? Even without a spore drive, 120 years is a long time to not even try.

We did get some more bits about the Emerald Chain, revealing that they are adversaries of the Federation and encroaching, but also willing to do some diplomacy as well. We have yet to meet the leader Osyraa, but it now appears she is a she, and an Orion. And as the Bajorans are working with the Emerald Chain, they remain on our list of potential bad guys for the season—although one of the slaves was a Bajoran, so who knows? But the Emerald Chain seems to just be generic gangster thugs, so it’s still likely there is some bigger big bad out there, and it would be good to get to that bigger and more important story soon.

Willa looks on knowingly, waiting for someone to find the hidden “personal entertainment” features of their new badges

Mystery man Kovich didn’t return to answer any of our questions about who he is, but this episode made it pretty clear he did something to Georgiou. She is slowly being debilitated by these flashbacks, and Michael has noticed. It’s getting worse, and her Terran tendencies to keep an evil stiff upper lip are failing her. Taking a closer look at those flashbacks may provide some clues, so keep an eye out for us doing some more analysis and theorizing.

Star Trek: Discovery has thrust the show into a whole new era, and sure we have seen some cool stuff and gotten some glances at a few ships, but so far this galaxy feels a little small. If we are going to shortchange the main plot, it would be nice to offer up more than teases and hints in the mythology department.

Did I leave the keys in my last universe?

Mid-season blues

While mostly entertaining, “Scavengers” is likely the weakest entry of season three so far. All the top-notch elements are still here from music, production design, visual effects, and performances. However, the episode succumbs to serving the season arc as an interstitial, setting up elements to be paid off later at the cost of delivering a complete story. Hopefully, this isn’t a trend, and overall the season remains the strongest of the series.

It’s Lizard time!

Random extra bits

  • The refit Discovery adds 32nd-century detached nacelles for better maneuverability, upgraded internal systems, and programmable matter interfaces. Elements of the exterior also have a new blue glow.
  • It’s unclear why the USS Discovery would need the new NCC-1031-A designation. After it was refit, the USS Enterprise kept its original NCC-1701 designation. It was the duplicate replacement ship that added the “-A.”
  • Gray mentioned the ship has a basketball court, and also areas for bocce ball and fencing.
  • The new badges also function as PADDS, tricorders, and personal transporters.
  • It’s cool that Discovery was able to keep its crew together, but shouldn’t Starfleet want more than just Lt. Willa to help them acclimatize to the new Federation and missing out on 950 years of history and technology?
  • Apparently “real dilithium” is especially prized, perhaps distinguished from recrystallized dilithium?
  • Part of the ruse on the scrapyard planet was searching for self-sealing stem bolts, a running gag from DS9.
  • Vance says, “Make sure they clear the ship before doing the baryon sweep,” a process first seen in TNG’s “Starship Mine”
  • The nephew also showed off what looks like a Type-2 Starfleet phaser from TNG movie era, but Georgiou said it wasn’t authentic.
  • Michael pawed through a bucket of Federation badges, which was a bit grisly when you consider what happened to all those officers.
  • Included in the ships being salvaged was what looked like a Starfleet Miranda Class and a Hiawatha-type ship.
  • Georgiou body-shames Grudge, calling the cat a “blob,” and quipping she has her own “gravitational pull.” Or could these be more hints that Grudge is more than just a cat?
  • Book’s “cat collar” app makes meow sounds.
  • Vance’s briefing had ten Captains including Saru, five of whom were human. We learned of some assignments:
    • Captain Kardashev (human male) sent to Reilling VII to install shields to protect for solar flares
    • Captain Rahma (Osnullus female) to Kaijur XII to bring replicators for a food shortage.
    • Captain Bandra (human female) to take the USS Le Guin (presumably named for the author Ursula K. Le Guin) to Na’Seth for a supply run, taking 2 months.
    • There was also a human male captain named L’Teis.
  • Ryn the Andorian is played by Noah Averbach-Katz, husband of Mary Wiseman (Tilly).
  • Line of the week: “Your emotional spectrum runs from cranky to homicidal.”

There’s only room for one queen on this ship

More to come

Every Friday the new TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek Podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe and discusses the latest episode. The podcast is available on Apple PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsStitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.


New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery premiere on Thursdays on CBS All Access in the U.S. and on CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada, where it’s also available to stream on Crave. Episodes are available on Fridays internationally on Netflix.

Keep up with all the news and reviews from the new Star Trek Universe on TV at TrekMovie.com.

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I thought the A designation might be because in Starfleet records the Discovery was destroyed, as all of the other ships that have gotten the letter designations have been.

That makes some sense. Or they just changed how they assign the suffixes, perhaps when ships are “evolved” instead of being decommissioned.

this and the fact that starfleet must hide any hints of time travel to save integrity of the temporal agreement.

Last edited 14 days ago by Tim

^^^^ that all make the best sense

Who is enforcing the temporal agreement?

This is a very good question. The Federation seems too “shadow of its former self-y” to be able to manage that kind of oversight.

I’m sure there’s a lot of illegal time travel devices that can be bought on the black market.

The Federation from a hundred years ago could be managing that oversight.

That is the correct answer.

Maybe there is some sort of higher species such as the Q or Prophets or Organians or even a group from further into the future who keep an eye on these things

Not really sure why they would even care.

All of these are perfectly comfortable in my headcanon. It shall be made so. And thank you!

Yeah, pretty much. It was just to make it clear that ship was suppose to be destroyed and this is now a ‘different’ ship. Although it’s funny all the people it was supposed to be destroyed with are still around lol. This is still Discovery, I don’t pretend it all makes logical sense a lot of the time, but I’m just going with it. ;)

Last edited 14 days ago by Tiger2

‘NCC-1031-A’

It got an ‘A’ designation because… it’s different?

“Admiral, we have just finished 18 months redesigning and refitting the Enterprise.”
“Admiral, this is an almost totally new Enterprise. You don’t know her a 10th as well as I do.”
“Your unfamiliarity with the ship’s redesign, in my opinion, sir, seriously jeopardizes this mission.”

With all that exposition dialogue explaining the Enterprise’s new look and functionality, it’s still the same ship from TOS hence why it still bears the original ‘NCC-1701’ designation.

What is going on here?

The other commenter’s reason that since the records say Discovery was destroyed they gave it the A designation to hide it origins. I am personally fine with that explanation.

Last edited 14 days ago by T.boyle

If that was true then they would also change the uniforms.

Maybe they prefer their own uniforms. The crew’s got pretty serious culture shock, so perhaps they’re changing only what’s actually important.

Yeah, But the real reason is the show’s budget.

That’s the real reason for half of canon.

Uniforms are important for unit cohesion.

The crew needs that to stay the same, at least during transition.

Frankly, with the diversity of Starfleet uniforms out there no one will instantly think that the unit distinction is due to me travel.

But they are very very old uniforms. No one else is literally wearing it BUT them. I don’t really get it to be honest. You upgrade Discovery to make at least have it look like and act like other ships in the fleet but then the crew beams down to planets with 1,000 year old uniforms on? What exactly do they tell people when they ask them why are they wearing 1,000 year old uniforms???

Most people so far have just assumed Discovery was a long lost Stafleet ship or a generation ship. Adira figured it out because they’re smart and had direct access to the ship’s hardware.

Honestly, only a historian would recognize a 1,000 year-old uniform. And given that Starfleet isn’t exactly “mainstream” anymore, civilians would probably see the badge, shrug, and not really give two thoughts to their sartorial choices.

I just mean why are you still wearing them?? It’s not just about if people can identify it or not, it’s just SO out of place at current Starfleet. It’s literally like if people were wearing uniforms from the American Revolutionary war in the 1800s with people wearing current military outfit today. It’s just ridiculous in general.

Actually I sorta think that they would need to change to the modern uniforms. They upgraded the ship. They needed to upgrade the wardrobe, too. They’ve been there for a while now. It would be 100% reasonable and logical they would blend in with the current Star Fleet. Them not doing so is yet another misstep on the part of the show.

Here’s an idea. Why not change the ship’s name? Simply putting an ‘A’ at the end of the registry will still draw interest to the original and the fact that they’re it’s still manned by the original crew wearing their original uniforms wouldn’t help hide anything. All you’ve got to do is look through the stupid bridge window.

Cuz then all the branding would have to change to Star Trek: NewShipName. And they just paid for that snazzy new logo.

The USS Picard

Because the name of the show is still Discovery. ;)

I still wish they could just put them on a new ship and keep the name, but I guess moving them off the ship would be like moving the Voyager and DS9 crew off theirs by third season.

Last edited 14 days ago by Tiger2

Just change the name of the show to Star Trek Picard.

Go away loser. I don’t like you and never will troll.

I’ve still got Tiger2’s back on this one.

It’s pretty sad how much attention he wants from me when I want zero from him. But he’s never getting it.

You post everytime I post Tiger.

Ignore me. How many times can I say this to you troll? Ignore me.

Here’s an idea. Why not KEEP the name and CHANGE the ship? I doubt really anybody is missing that old garbage scow that was really just Bryan Fuller’s revenge for being mistreated by B&B on Voyager (that and the KlingOrc redesign)!

So it’s WIN WIN really :)

The only problem that might come up there is that Discovery is fitted for that spore drive thingy. Simply moving it to another ship might MIGHT be more trouble than it’s worth. So upgrading the ship around the spores could have been the better move.

We know from 303 that while there are databases outside Starfleet that have all the ships from the time of the Burn, the full historical record going back to the 23rd century many not be widely available.

By this time Starfleet has had likely a hundred iterations of different uniforms. I don’t think people will instantly recognize the uniforms as historical, and if they did they might think it as a nostalgic tribute.

Again, UNIT COHESION!

Keeping the uniform to demark the unit during a transition is actually a fairly established practice in more than one major military organization.

I really wish that some folks would be open to hearing this or doing a little reading about real-life military practice before dumping on writers and production teams who have actually done something that makes sense.

Last edited 13 days ago by TG47

No. People would look at it was weird and crazy. If a military unit showed up wearing a suit of armor today it would be weird and out of place. If they showed up in 900 year old suits on active duty it would still look weird and out of place except as a one time showing for nostalgic purposes. It would be impractical and ridiculous to go about that way on an ongoing basis.

They can all get their unit cohesion by all wearing the appropriate garments for the time frame.

Last edited 13 days ago by ML31

Yeah, a modern Starfleet ship where everyone’s wearing Wrath of Khan uniforms would be EXTREMELY out of place, despite the fact that it would be utterly badass.

Wait, did Discovery in this get an ‘A’ after the hull number?

I missed that completely.

Well that’s just silly. If they wanted to hide it they should have done the math and figured out the average life span of a Star Ship and just divided it by 930. Then use THAT letter. But then, it’s 900 years. What do they use after Z?

As said, because history recorded the original Discovery as destroyed. Although it’s funny 900 years later they would for some reason make a 900 year old outdated design but don’t think about it too hard. ;)

It is not so funny. Thor Heyerdahl and Ben Sisko did the same thing.

Last edited 14 days ago by odradek

OK, I had to look up Thor Heyerdahl, full disclosure lol.

But that’s not the same thing with Sisko. He was just following an ancient Bajoran myth and built a ship to see if it was possible. They didn’t add it to the fleet after it was over. ;)

Well, the 24th century Akira was based on the 22nd century NX class. We saw a Miranda and a Hiawatha-type in this last episode. Some designs just work.

Also, some art departments are lazy. But for story purposes, the former. ;)

LOL, OK, I’ll take the latter.

A cursory at best knowledge of Star Trek from Discovery’s writers.

Last edited 14 days ago by The Collector

Why does this matter so much? If you have to justify it, It’s different decision makers making a decision 1000 years a part.

Even if there is finally a ‘purpose’ for Emperess Georgiou I’m fairly well done with the character. Good actress, very cringey character…

Yeah, but for the first time in three years I’m actually wondering what her deal is. With the flashbacks and the son we never knew she had. What’s THAT all about? Maybe it’ll bring her down to earth a bit. Like Michael this season. Yeah, I guess she’s still insubordinate and “knows the right thing to do at all times”, but as a character she seems more approachable this year.

Actually, we do know that she had an infant at one time.

She said so in S2 episode 3 “Point of Light” when the S31 ship was hovering over Borath and Tyler was saying his goodbyes to his son.

Georgiou complained how babies are constantly demanding attention and she handed hers off to servants care.

This was puzzling at the time because she clearly wasn’t talking about her foster daughter MU Michael Burnham.

And by the writer’s rule of Chekov’s gun, that’s a bit of unresolved personal history from Georgiou that’s been just waiting to resurface.

Last edited 14 days ago by TG47

Oooooooooooo….

I just always assumed she was talking about Baby Burnham. But duuuuuuude. Excellent catch!

(and I’m using “dude” as a gender-neutral expression of wonder and respect, not an inadvertent misgendering)

There are others out on other boards who’ve read the Georgiou tie-in novel that say she may be saying “San” the name of a friend/ally who appears in that novel.

I hadn’t read that book since Georgiou wasn’t that interesting to me, but this could the case.

If so, we still have the Chekov’s gun problem of that infant…

Yeah. They have finally decided to do something with her but to be perfectly honest, it’s way too late. I would say I’ve stopped caring about the character but the truth is I never cared about her. She was cartoony and silly from the instant she showed up in the MU. So whatever they do with her will be a waste of time. I don’t care and if she vanished from the show I probably would barely notice at this point.

And I would argue that she is only a good actress when she gets the right part. Even prime Georgeau was not a good role for her.

Imagine an entire series with that character in the central role. It would be the first Star Trek that I just couldn’t do…

I’m enjoying Georgiou more and more.

I am even finding it comprehensible that Kim and Lippoldt talk about Georgiou’s mischievous nature and Kadin calls her “delicious” .

But she needs some kind of transformation that puts distance between her and the genocidal tyrant she came across from the MU as.

It does seem that the EPs had a reasonable plan for the character, but the COVID delay has left the untransformed Georgiou in the minds of fans far longer than planned.

That could be it. She’s just worn out her welcome. Well we’ll see what happens with the transforming that started last episode…

A “transformation” of a MU character just wouldn’t work for those who are aware of the MU. It’s The Scorpion and the Frog.

Admittedly there might be crossover appeal for such a show. But from what I can see it really wouldn’t sit well with the majority of the franchises biggest fans.

I wouldn’t call it one of the greats, but I found this episode to be much better than the second at least. I REALLY like what they did with the Discovery.

Also, wouldn’t retrofitting it and renaming her the Disco-A have the effect of hiding her in plain sight as a modern Starfleet vessel? A perfectly operating 1000 year old ship is likely to draw the suspicions of anybody who finds her.

Fewer awkward conversations with other space-faring nations about time travel.

I wouldn’t call it the weakest either. It was much better than the Trill episode.

I wouldn’t rate it as the weakest, and I see some reviewers rate it as one of the best of the season.

It seems that they are definitely mixing up the styles and pacing of the episodes, and such that they appeal to different preferences.

For me, it’s the variety itself that’s the season’s greatest strength.

I think the shift to the “A” is more of a way “in world” to explain why there is a ship called Discovery out there when the last one was destroyed nearly 1000 years ago. I’m reaching. I know. But from a show running perspective, it’s a way to make something new and shiny for the audience and to get ship model lovers like myself buy the A variant at Eaglemoss.

Gotta say, I didn’t even notice the -A when I watched the episode. Damn hull’s too metallic. Everything has a glare on it.

Same. The VFX are clearly expensive and impressive, but I desperately miss the clarity and majesty of the 1979-2005 style. So many VFX shots now in this and Picard are shiny, busy, cluttered and over or under-lit.

^Exactly.

It’s clear to me that the Trek Vfx folks, like the direction, are stuck in a kind of stylistic echo chamber.

I’m hoped that Kurtzman’s strategy of differentiation across series would extend to vfx, cinematography and music, but so far he’s keeping the same leads and therefore styles across the live-action series.

I don’t see that having Zimmerman as the head for all the series is serving them well, especially as he isn’t challenging Kurtzman. He comes right out and says in the interview that they are putting in all the little robots all over the place because Kurtzman really likes them.

In any case, murky space and lens flares to me look like technical errors that good vfx producers and cinematographers would avoid.

I understand absolutely that folks like to play with the boundaries in art pieces, but I keep wondering if these have become a general fad because they can cover other problems.

It sounds as though they’ve got to the Groupthink stage where internal challenges and constructive criticism aren’t happening on the big things.

But the fan criticism is so general and nasty in many cases that I think it gets tuned out in the macro, even if they take it into account in the micro.

“Murky space,” that’s very apt. I don’t mind a little fake dust on a fake lens now and the , but every shot is so gloomy and hazy.

Me too. It was easily missed. Bad directing.

A very accurate assessment.

Guys… guys… you’re trying waaaaay too hard with those photo captions.

I’m enjoying their humor. I need it as a bit of relief from being pelted with crisis to crisis of each day’s reality in the news. It’s goofy humor to be sure but it takes some of the edge off our current daily survival stress.

Yeah I really like them too.

They are definitely one of the “value adds” of the TM reviews.

The over-the-top nature of the captions is precisely their appeal.

Parts of the episode were greatly improved. But honestly, why isn’t Burnham court-martialed and drummed out of Starfleet?! She could not even hope to get away with this chit in the mililtary.

Starfleet isnt a usual mililtary.

Starfleet has many times court-martialed characters. It’s a fairly frequent thing when people pull the kind of crap Burnham’s pulling.

This time Burnham did nothing more then Worf did for Jadzia in “Change of Heart” and that leaded even in the death of a cardassian renegade which had important intel that could have saved million lives and he just got a rebuke in his file.

Last edited 14 days ago by Tim

And how many times did Worf do such a thing? Did Worf have a long history of it? It’s fair to give people chances. But it is also fair to stop giving chances eventually.

Especially when those officers are under contract with the network. ;)

Starfleet tends to look the other way frequently on insubordination ….

Kirk was courtmartialed. And given a ship. 😊

And that was one of the many many reasons why that movie was so terrible.

Yeah. She’s been given a lot of chances at this point. She really doesn’t belong in Star Fleet at all. Saru should have busted her down to ensign for this. But can’t do that because she’s the lead. All she got was less than a slap on the wrist.

Ideally she ought to leave Discovery and go galivant around with Book.

Not ensign, but at least to lieutenant commander — she needed a demotion in rank not just role.

Why would she be court martialed for saving lives?

Because she disobeyed a direct order from her direct superior in a line command.

Saving lives mitigated that somewhat.

Saru’s error in giving that absolute order, without bringing her Intel to the admiral for consideration, also mitigated it.

But it still was insubordination and disobeying a direct order during an alert/stand-by situation.

In a military-like organization with abundant personnel, her career would have been over.

I thought it was fairly obvious why the A designation was there–so Starfleet can hide Discovery’s time-travel arrival by making it a new ship. I’m surprised people are questioning this.

Last edited 14 days ago by His Name Is Rios

Here’s a better idea. How about renaming the ship entirely so no one will draw a comparison to the original to begin with? It’s like adding ‘Jr.’ to your name and wearing different clothes to signify you’re a completely different person. This plan hunches on people never looking up what the original Discovery was and never knowing who served on her when she was ‘supposedly destroyed’.

You know what? Screw it. Why don’t we just say that it IS the Discovery? Or does this universe have a glass jaw so big that the moment anyone realizes that the Discovery wasn’t destroyed that it will somehow magically spawn an AI bent on destroying all life in the universe again? The more this show keeps bending over backwards to not contradict established lore, the stupider it gets.

Rios, I’m with you.

This is obvious.

If they are still adding letters to Voyager’s registry number then I think we know that part of Starfleet’s identity, as a continuous defender of the Federation, is its ships.

If there hasn’t been another Discovery in 930 years, then any ship with this designation would need to be -A. Otherwise, it’s inviting questions.

What’s interesting to me is that there hasn’t been another Discovery. It would be interesting to know if the name had been struck from the list or “reserved.”

In Canada, we associate the HMS Discovery with Captain Vancouver’s exploration on the west coast (and Cook before him).

Discovery is therefore a very important and historic ship name, but is a name that is associated with tragedy too.

While there is a naval reserve station HMCS Discovery in Vancouver, and there was a converted whaler used for Arctic exploration, I don’t think we’ve used it for a naval ship.

The NASA space shuttle seems to have had a happier history.

Last edited 14 days ago by TG47

Yes, Jeyl. Much of what you say is spot on. Logic and reason are all over the map on this show.

Well, yes; but in the real world, CBS has a lot of brand equity in the title “Star Trek Discovery” at this point. I think the 1031-A redesignation addresses the issue adequately within that constraint.

How about renaming the ship entirely so no one will draw a comparison to the original to begin with?

Grudge is a Flerken.

I said it for episode 305, and will say it again for episode 306:

“I really think Michael and Saru are going to have to part company. They care for each other as friends might, but professionally they are oil and water. It would be good for them if they did separate. Who could be a good 1st Officer for Saru if Michael leaves the Fed / Fleet? No one seems to obviously fill the gap in Command that could be left if Burnham leaves Disco.”

I don’t believe she will moderate her inherent need to be insubordinate. She innately thinks that her personal missions supersede the needs of the command structure, of her captain… the needs of the many. A Vulcan would say, “The needs of the many outweigh the….” A human written to be the plot-armored superhero in Trek-world would say, “I know better than anyone else. I’ll disregard orders yet again because I don’t learn lessons; I’ll put my ship / captain / crew / reputation in danger in the process; I’ll do my hero-thing; and I’ll beg for forgiveness later.”

While I don’t like that Tilly narked on Michael -> Tilly was absolutely right in her logic and right to advise Saru as she did.

For drama and narrative, I don’t think it’s bad to have characters like Michael. Here, it creates interesting paths for Michael if she were to be moved to section 31, or if she were to decide to resign her commission and work with Book or on her own to do what she wants on a daily basis.

Equally interesting is how DISCO and Saru would evolve on their own if Michael left them. Saru may find himself, over time, bending slightly more toward Michael’s independent streak as he is increasingly forced to bend to Vance’s stern will.

Vance is no Admiral Cornwell. He lacks imagination. He lacks the ability to see beyond the trees that are 5 feet in front of him… as Saru has pointed out. (Dammit man, stop staring at your feet and look up!) His command is driven from crisis and the structure that supports him. Does he inspire awe and admiration? There are leaders that are required for specific times. Vance is the leader that The Fed / Star Fleet needs in the time of crisis and triage. Although it bothers me that 120 years after the burn, they are still in triage.

In any case, Saru is a leader for a time when non-warrior, statesman caretakers of stable and established visions are needed. He can evolve to be what Captain Pike was. He could even walk the line of statesman-warrior that Picard walked, but only with time and experience. He is not there yet.

But as for Michael…
Get thee
Off of Discovery!

One more thing: I am kind of loving how Michael is developing yet another “mom” relationship.
– biological mom
– adoptive mom-Amanda
– Captain-mom Georgiou
– Emperor-mom Georgiou

I am curious to see how the writers develop the Emperor-Daughter-2.0 relationship. It will change them both for the better if done well.

Also, I really find it curious that Michael spent most of her formative years on Vulcan, where she was trained to keep her emotions in check. From the point of the Binary Stars, it has been her inability to keep her emotions in check that has repeatedly been her downfall. NOTE: I equate repeat insubordination and the inability to learn from self-inflicted world shattering mistakes with conceit and the lack of emo-control. Can she moderate? If she stays on DISCO, Saru REALLY needs to recognize how to help Michael moderate. Saru has not learned yet that commanding people is also about nurturing them in their weak places so that they can grow. He still thinks “captain” is about command and obey. He has not yet taken the “Great Captains” training class at Star Fleet Academy yet… as perhaps SFA has not yet been prioritized under Vance.

Last edited 14 days ago by Tarnwood

To me, Borderline Burnham / Sappy SMG leaving Discovery (the ship and the show) and spearheading the S31 show with Space Hitler would be absolutely the best case scenario to salvage the former (in general and for my viewing)

In the parlance du jour, it would be akin to permanently quarantining a toxic character. Finally, the fine crew of Discovery and its fine captain had room to breathe and evolve!

Last edited 14 days ago by Vulcan Soul

All good analysis here Tarnwood.

The more I think about this episode the more I find it hard to imagine where the writers are going to land this.

It’s hard to have a season about the value of institutions and teamwork when the principal character keeps going rogue, no matter her reasons.

Of course Grudge is a flerken. Why else would Tilly ask if she ate Burnam? 😂

The A designation was likely Starfleet’s attempt to hide the fact the Discovery time-traveled from the past. The A designation and redesign signal that it is outwardly a new ship

Its Hard for me to stand burnhams “emotional” face Party. What the hell is this supposed to be?

Saru is so well acted… but what is smq actually doing…

Last edited 14 days ago by jako

Don’t you love our new Vice President?

What exactly was that statement–which comes off as rather racist–supposed to mean?

She’s amazing and reminds me of Burnham

Funny, to me she’s a female Trump (Burnham, not the new VP!) Narcissistic to the bone and gives a damn about rules! Literally the universe and show revolves around her, its me me meeeeeee! :/

Last edited 14 days ago by Vulcan Soul

You not only described Trump but Obama as well. The only difference is Trump flaunts his narcissism. Obama pretends he’s not but is.

Worse than narcissicism is the hypocrisy though of the quintessential Champagner socialist who preaches water and drinks wine – they are everything they are accusing their enemies of, yet claim moral superiority. The nerve!

How well I know that here in the states. Governors and Senators and mayors and Speakers of the House ignoring their own edicts and mandates. And worst of all, a press that largely ignores it when it comes from the side they support.

She is the star of the show after all. Did you have this problem with TOS revolving around Kirk?

She reminds you of burnham? Why?

Both are hott.

Opps, double post

Last edited 14 days ago by noraa

Discovery is about Burnham. She’s not leaving the show.

Then its a clear case of bait and switch fraud. Since the show is called “Star Trek: Discovery” and not “Star Trek: Burnham”. Unlike “Star Trek: Picard”…

The show was called Star Trek but it was really the Captain Kirk Show.

And that is why TOS not as watchable now (for many of us) as the 90s series other than Enterprise.

“Archer Syndrome: When a series hangs totally on liking the principal character and a good portion of the audience doesn’t, it makes it hard for it to hold a large enough audience to be successful.

A fair point regarding the “Archer Syndrome”. But what’s not to like about Kirk?

Interesting

Last edited 14 days ago by Worth the wait

I have a completely wild prediction: at some point this season, Burnham leaves both Discovery and Starfleet as she continues to be insubordinate. A little later, she AND Georgiou are recruited by Kovich to join Section 31. As such, SMG leaves Disco to join the Section 31 show with, and Disco will continue on without her – with the possibility of crossover episodes.

Completely wild, I know, but stranger things have happened!

Not wild at all.

I agree and have said the same.

I hope she does think it is more desirable to be a free agent to do as she likes away from the rules of Star Fleet. Being a free agent and doing her own thing suits her nature.

There’s no way they would write Burnham out of Discovery. That would be like writing Picard out of Picard. She might leave Starfleet, but she won’t leave the show.

It will be tough to keep it called Discovery, with Burnham as the main character, if the ship Discovery isn’t central to each week’s action.

I’m thinking that both Burnham and Saru have a ways to go to be able to give fearless advice, but loyally follow orders once given.

Saru needs to understand that “fearless advice” is central to his integrity as a command officer (and he failed to inform and advise Vance about Burnham’s Intel).

Burnham needs to accept that her it’s not just enough to have integrity in her advice: there will be times when her advice will be rejected and in such cases she is dury-bound to “loyal implementation.”

If they want the series to last another four or five seasons, this isn’t going to be a quick transformation.

Last edited 14 days ago by TG47

I fear you are all giving the show too much credit. Im pretty sure that with all the Executive Producers and different writers every week they haven’t got anyone’s story arc planned more than 1 or 2 episodes ahead. It’s clear they don’t know what to do with the characters OR they have too many people with too many different ideas that we will end up having arcs that stop and start abruptly or not go anywhere.

But maybe I’m wrong.

The season 3 showrunners and writers room held together.

Rotating through who takes the lead from one episode to another is just how writers rooms work.

Suggest you read the writers guild rules on crediting and sharing assignments on serialized series.

Adira is a likable enough character. So far they’ve avoided the Wesley Crusher annoyance factor. Just don’t make it a situation where Adira is saving the ship every other week thanks to being a super genius. Grey is extraneous at this point. Not a fan of the Imaginary friend trope. Discovery already has a large enough cast why are they adding so many additional characters. Especially when so many existing characters are given so little screen

The part is thinly-written, but Ian Alexander is also not a great actor and their chemistry isn’t strong. We need more trans actors, the talent pool is so shallow right now.

I like Adira (although she’s not a “tween”; she’s 16, fer cryin’ out loud). Gray, not so much. I rarely like ghost characters popping up all the time to interact with live characters, invisible to everyone else. This trope was way overused in “13 Reasons Why,” and it seems to have infested Discovery.

Starship goes years into the future with a skeleton crew – Copy Andremeda
Federation in ruins and only Discovery holds hope – Copy Andromeda
Computer that runs the ship becoming sentient – Copy Andromeda
Music that plays in everyone’s head meaning something – Copy Battlestar Galactica
A person that has a “friend” only in their head – Copy Battlestar Galactica
An evil person looking to thwart everyone else – Copy Lost in Space (more the current version)

There are so many more, but really! Do these guys have an original idea in their head?

Last edited 14 days ago by David Moss

On second thought, Discovery does have an “Andromeda” vibe to it.

Plus: Andromeda didnt have Borderline Burnham

Negative: Andromeda had Dylan Hunt

You decide which one is more obnoxious ;)

Dylan Hunt in the Andromeda version really gets up my nose. (I really liked the Genesis II Dylan Hunt though.)

The fact that Discovery brings forward an entire diverse group of people is one profound difference that makes it better than Andromeda. More, the crew are real officers not a ragtag crew of ethically dubious scavengers.

Plus, Starfleet and the Federation still exist in reduced form.

This isn’t a one hero restoring the greatness and moral superiority of the past scenario.

The fact that Discovery brings forward an entire diverse group of people is one profound difference that makes it better than Andromeda.

How so? Especially when Discovery hardly utilizes or explores half it’s characters?

Even Saru + Tilly + Stamets + Culber main cast being Starfleet is a whole lot more people bringing the value system forward than one Dylan Hunt — true beacon of the United Nations / Systems Commonwealth (depending on which Dylan Hunt concept were talking about).

Personally, I’ve been waiting for Roddenberry’s “Dylan Hunt goes forward in time” concept to actually be integrated into a canon Star Trek series since I saw Genesis II as a made-for-TV movie in the 70s.

Andromeda is a really poor execution of a not bad idea that Roddenberry never saw into a series buy. Mostly unwatchable.

Discovery is a much better reworking of some of Roddenberry’s ideas. And if his estate is happy to see the franchise take this on and do it well, I’m all for it.

Last edited 13 days ago by TG47

I never saw Andromeda. But the tropes used on STD are all there…

ML31 — make yourself watch the 2-part pilot and 3 or 4 episodes of Andromeda and then come back and complain and I might be willing to discuss this.

The group who got a licence from the estate to use Roddenberry’s Dylan Hunt and Andromeda (ship AI) ideas do not have perpetual rights on them, nor were they particularly original beyond merging two of Roddenberry’s failed pilot ideas.

It was just bad. I tried rewatching with the kids and it’s just not possible.

If Discovery finally takes these two pilot ideas of Roddenberry and 40 years later makes them fly, what’s the issue?

The complaint isn’t about Andromeda tropes. (As I said I have never seen the show) They are about standard TV story telling tropes we’ve seen over and over again.

Exactly!!!! No new ideas at all in Discovery, or Picard for that matter. Even to the point of the major Battlestar tropes is just ridiculous between both Discovery and Picard. Let me list just some of them (between the two):

  1. A man waiting at a desk every day for someone to show up (Discovery).
  2. Androids evolving to a human form (Picard).
  3. This has all happened before and will all happen again (Picard).
  4. Music being used to bring people to an idea (Discovery).
  5. A person who sees and communicates with someone in their head (Discovery)

I don’t need to go on, but believe me there are TONS more.

No, they really don’t.

Look up the controversy regarding Discovery and the video game “Tardigrades”. Even the character roster is very similar.

This was definitely the weakest episode of the season for me. It wasn’t ‘bad’, but very very predictable and even felt by the numbers in some ways. You knew exactly where the episode was going just by the trailer. Breaking out Booker and the rest free was fine, just pretty standard stuff, although we did learn a little more about things. And I did like Space Hitler and Burnham together. The actors really do have good chemistry together and they did have a lot of fun moments in the episode. And it looks like they are finally developing Georgiou after they did nothing with her for season 2 other than have her kick ass and sound sarcastic. It was good to see Booker back and I hope he sticks around. I think he and Michael will be a good couple.

And loving all the new tech. It was hilarious to see Linus beaming himself to random parts of the ship. How do they manage not to beam themselves into bulkheads or even into space? But it’s fun to see 32nd century tech. Those badges can do so much. It’s probably like handing someone from 100 years ago a smart phone today. Love all the changes Discovery got as well. I can’t wait to see it flying with detach nacelles. Weird, but cool! And can you imagine if that ship ever did travel to its original timeline now?? The spore drive would be the least of its concerns lol. Also like the ‘A’ attached to the ship, to make it clear it’s now a different ship from the one supposedly destroyed in the 23rd century even though it’s literally the same ship. OK then!

Anyway, decent episode for sure but the weakest so far and was kind of expecting it to be.

Last edited 14 days ago by Tiger2

The detached nacelles remind me of the pod racers from Star Wars, truth be told.

Not quite wrapping my head around upgrading a ship that’s nearly 1,000 years old. It would be like taking a Model T and converting it into a Tesla. Could it be done? Sure. Would there be any real logic behind it? Not really.

And would a crew from 1,000 years in the past be able to adapt so quickly to such advanced technology?

Three reasons in story for why they did the refit of Discovery:

1. Saru insisted on keeping the crew together.

2. Discovery is quasi/fully-sentient with the sphere data that can’t be moved.

3. The spore drive is unique to Discovery because of the genetic alteration done to Stamets.

All valid points but, based on the tech we’ve seen so far, Discovery’s systems could have been integrated into an entirely new vessel.

Overall I’m pleased with Discovery’s new look. Now if they could just give the interior a bit of a makeover…

Not quite wrapping my head around upgrading a ship that’s nearly 1,000 years old.

Probably because of the Spore Drive. I would have liked to hear Stammets, Saru or Vance make some comment about studying the spore drive with an eye toward implementing it across the fleet. They have 930 years tech on Discovery, maybe they can find another way to navigate than messing with someone’s DNA? Tilly talked about using Dark Matter for something like that, but it hasn’t been mentioned since.

The Sphere Data may have been involved in that decision, too. A comment that the Sphere Data has been duplicated/downloaded into the Federation’s computers would be nice, because it if wasn’t, the Sphere Data could go rogue in the future, the way it prevented them destroying the Discovery in “Such Sweet Sorrow”.



Speaking of the spore drive… And this is related to an old complaint… It seems unreasonable that no one in 900 years would look at the potential of the spore drive. Just because it failed centuries ago doesn’t mean the concept isn’t worth looking into.

Hero of Alexandria invented a basic steam engine in the 1st Century AD, but his concepts were lost and largely ignored for *1800* years. And his design was never kept secret.

The spore drive could easily have been similar. There’s some talk in the first season that only Stamets and the other guy who died on the Glenn were really involved in the project. There were only two prototypes with the Glenn and the Discovery. With the Glenn destroyed and the Discovery kept top secret, it’s not that far-fetched that the spore drive might have been lost to history.

But it is NOT far fetched that someone else over a 900 year time frame couldn’t have come up with the concept and worked on it.

Clearly old tech has value or the Orions wouldn’t be scavenging materials from the ship graveyards left by the Burn.

There just aren’t that many intact ships. And intact and functioning spaceframe is just a platform that can be upgraded. Modern navies have much the same attitude towards old ships, and only consider how 747s have been recycled.

True. I was thinking back to “Yesterday’s Enterprise” when Riker mentioned how they could use the Enterprise C “even if she is an old ship.”

Wow, good observation. I never thought about that with the pod racers.

As far as the Model T/Tesla comparison, it’s a little bit different in this case because from Discovery’s viewpoint, the Model T doesn’t really need to rely on gas OR electricity to not only get where it’s going but happens to have a more powerful source that can leap frog the Tesla in terms of both distance and speed (ie spore drive). And when you only have one of them at a time you can really use that distance and speed, you’re going to adapt it as much as possible for everything else and keep it reliable.

So yes, it that situation I can understand the logic behind it. The spore drive is really the ONLY excuse to even keep them on the ship at all.

As far as the crew being able to adapt to 1,000 year old technology, I would usually just say no. HOWEVER, the way we see how technology is consumed here, a lot of it is basically more advanced holographic tech which they obviously had before so it’s not completely alien to them and/or adapts to the user as well. At least based on some of the proto matter stuff we seen.

But I would still imagine a lot of it would be way beyond them to understand so fast…at least not in just 3 weeks lol. In reality, I imagine some would need years of retraining, but this is still Discovery. ;D

Last edited 13 days ago by Tiger2

Yes. I figured the only reason they didn’t just scrap the ship was because of the spore drive. Would have been nice if someone said so on screen, however.

Maybe they still will, but yeah that’s really the only reason to justify keeping the ship active in this century. The data sphere could be another, but that doesn’t really need to be a reason to keep the ship going and could be used more as a database.

They’re also adapting rather well knowing that everyone they ever knew or loved has been dead for nearly 1,000 years. Show them a few new shiny ships and a bit of new technology and everyone seemed to be ready to move on.

But, if you convert a DeLorean to a flying car, it’s pretty badass. So there’s precedent.

But time travel’s illegal now, so the Disco’s the best they could do.

I think you’re on to something!

Yeah agree this was the weakest episode of the season, but it did have some good elements to it like the developing relationships between Michael and Georgiou as well as Stametts and Adira.
I was dismayed by the way Burnham disobeyed orders once again – but I am also reminded by the scene with Picard and Ro Laren when she says that she thought Starfleet had a lot to learn from her. Eventually Ro left Starfleet and maybe that should happen to Burnham too, but as Picard said back then – that attitude was also present in some of Starfleet’s finest officers. Maybe it is up to Saru to reign her in and mold her into the officer she obviously has the potential of becoming, without her losing the ability to think and do things “outside of the box”. I don’t think he’s given up on her yet.
S3 still has an episodic feel to it although if it wasn’t so obvious before, we now definitely know the season story arc is clearly to determine the cause of the burn.
Btw, final point the one advantage about episodic story telling – you can scrap a bad episode and hope next week’s episode is a better one.

Last edited 14 days ago by DeanH

Yeah it wasn’t THAT bad, just compared to how great everything else has been so far IMO, it just really lacks from that view.

I think what bothers me about Burnham disobeying orders is that she didn’t exhaust all her options first. She could’ve just went around Saru and talked to Vance directly about the situation. Instead she just decide not to take it any farther and took off with Georgiou. I think that would’ve been more realistic, especially given how much Vance is already cautious about Discovery. As he said he probably would’ve approved given what she brought back. It could’ve still made her and Saru relationship a little rocky but that probably would’ve been the better way to go.

I don’t think Burnham is going anywhere though. I think this will just be one of those arcs where her obsession over the burn will ultimately win out, she figures out what happened and by the end of the season she’s dubbed the hero…again lol. It could be interesting if at the end of the season she does decide to leave Starfleet, jump on Book’s ship and decides on a new life with him. But that would last as long as Sisko returning home to Earth only to be pulled back in later.

Also really excited for next week. Episodes 1,3,5 and 7 are all the ones I was most excited about so far based on the story set ups. It looks like an odd number thing lol.

Anyone else think the Andorians are WAY too blue? And why the goofy eyebrow horns? Andorians used to be so elegant and cool, and now they’re like caricatures buried under unnecessary prosthetics. Klingons used to be cool too, but now they’ve got them under so much hardware it sounds like they’re gargling marbles.

Yes. I think they severely over did the Andorians like they over did the Klingon makeover. A new tweak here or there is plenty. And there was no need to give them such horny faces. The moving antenna we got on Enterprise was a stroke of genius and all they really need.

Yeah I loved the moving antenna…speaking of which, how long ago are we supposed to think Ryn’s antennae were cut off? Enterprise established that they grow back in 9 months, half that with cranial massage therapy? There was no mention of that…if he comes back, I wonder if they will mention that. I doubt it though.

The quiz question of the week on the Ready Room was about how the antenna are for balance, a Wil Wheaton underscored that they can grow back. So, I expect that to happen.

The Orions may have used some kind of inhibitor to prevent regeneration, but perhaps Dr. Pollard can help. Discovery had Andorian crew in S1, so the Sick-bay should be ready to address this.

Yep. That was the first thing that came into my mind. Why have they not grown back? The mutilation must not have happened too long ago then but it was implied they had been there longer than that.

The Andorians aren’t all in one style.

If you look at the group chasing Book and Ryn, there is an Andorian with pale blue skin and more subtle features.

This is consistent with what the make-up team has been saying for some time about the new series. Humans are diverse so aliens should be too.

Think of Ryn as a dark complected Andorian.

OK. Fair point. But so far all the Andorians we’ve seen on STD have been of this style. And it would have been nice if we saw different Klingon types when they did their redesign.

I’m fine with Discovery getting a -A name. But wouldn’t that create a continuity error because in the Short Treks episode Calypso, set about 1000 years after the crew abandoned it (42nd Century), the ship is still designated as NCC-1031? It doesn’t even look like the refitted version.

Yeah I’m not quite sure how they’re going to make this work, but I don’t think it’s the 42nd century since Craft was talking about the V’Draysh. Which would imply that the Discovery we saw in Calypso was an alternate Discovery… And if it’s not, then it really is just a gaping plothole.

Yeah, that’s an oops. But it isn’t the first time the wrong registry number was seen on a ship. On DS9, the second Defiant (ex-USS Sao Paulo) had a new registry number (NCC instead of NX) but we still saw the old number from time to time, due to reused SFX shots.

The new Defiant only ever had the NX – the writers argued about it, but there wasn’t enough budget to afford all the new shots they’d need. The NCC is only on the Sao Paulo’s dedication plaque.

The ship changed it back.

I’m guessing the Calypso Short Trek is in a different timeline from the PU. That would would explain a lot. I think that’s the direction they are going in.

Wait, did they change the ship’s color too?? I saw a picture of the upgraded ship on another site and it now looks silvery. Is that a new color or just how it just looks reflected from the lighting? I’m really confused lol. I hope so though. The silver look makes it look cooler and modern. I always hated the brown look but then I always hated most of the ships exterior. ;)

I had the same thought. It looks steely-coloured instead of bronze.

If so, it will definitely look more like it’s from a more recent era, especially with the ringed saucer and the detached nacelles.

I found and rewatched that shot and I still can’t tell if it’s a new color or as said just a reflection. It looks like they added some new lights on the exterior so maybe that’s adding to the look.

Are we to believe the events of “Calypso” still happen? If so … other than the advanced AI, it was still the old version of Discovery in that episode.

Maybe the programmable matter can camouflage the ship in its old form?

Also, it’s interesting that Saru refers to the Federation as the “Federation of Planets” and not the “United Federation of Planets.”

The other Starfleet captains hadn’t been briefed on the spore drive and Starfleet is trying to keep it secret. But they’re not keeping the crew’s time traveling origin secret since Saru gives an entire briefing on the ship’s refit and the crew’s training.

So the “A” designation still doesn’t really make sense as a way to cover up where the ship came from.

Last edited 14 days ago by Edward Samuela

It does if Starfleet has multiple clearance levels, which we’d expect. Captains can know that a Starfleet ship inadvertently broke the Temporal Accords, but they can’t know about the new propulsion technology- the entire social order of the galaxy in the 32nd century is defined by the scarcity of dilithium and the risks of warp travel.

Not to mention that the whole point of having a fleet is to go out and interact with planets that may be on the fine line of being in or out of the Federation, or even diplomatic or military opponents.

The whole point of the signage is that it’s visible to all.

I don’t buy into the excuses for adding the ‘A’. If it was to hide the fact that they’re from the past, they’re doing a terrible job at it. It’s like one of those obvious disguises in a cartoon that isn’t fooling anyone. And with their penchant for laying on the exposition, they would have mentioned it. I think the more likely reason for it is that the (writers, producers, vfx artists, or whoever) thought adding a letter counted for refits, mixing up the Constitution-refit with the Enterprise-A.

I really don’t think they mixed that up.

This refrain of “the writers don’t know Trek” is really tired.

They know it. They’re just making decisions that some fans disagree with.

And others view this as finally correcting a mistake and bringing the registry suffixes in line with real life wet navy practice.

You act like every person that works on that show is a long-time Trek fan, and that they can’t make mistakes. It simply isn’t true. Mistakes have slipped in there before. I’ll be happy if this isn’t one of them and if they have a reasonable explanation for it, but this might not even be an issue with the writers. It could be the vfx department, or somebody else, and it just made it in there because I doubt the Trek fans on staff are the ones that get the final say.

Seriously Ashley, one of the long time Trek-lit authors (who knows canon cold across every era) just wrote on another board how delighted he is that they finally fixed the suffix system to match wet navies.

It was a choice, not a mistake.

Seriously Ashley, a person that I regard as an authority on Trek had an opinion I agree with.

Okay, so what? That’s not evidence for anything. And it’s not like that was anything that needed retconning. I’ll hold out for someone that actually works on the show to confirm or deny whether or not it was a thoughtful and intentional change, otherwise I’ll stick with my own opinion.

I’m not using others as proof text here, I’m just pointing out that there is clear evidence that the writers made a conscious choice.

It’s tiring to hear this kind of venting that the writers must be ignorant whenever something doesn’t match the writing choice you would want.

Kirsten Beyer is a co-EP on Discovery this season, and the writer’s room resource for canon.

She wrote 10 Voyager Relaunch novels, and was in the virtual Trek-lit writers room with this and other authors (who consult on the other new series).

There’s pretty much zero chance that Beyer hadn’t been part of the discussions among the writers about registry numbers.

So, given its Beyer’s job to keep track of all these minutiae, she would have brought it up in the room.

I agree. Adding the letter really doesn’t make much sense. The original Enterprise got a refit but got no ‘A’ added. So the only reason to do it is to appease some fans (I was never a fan of the letters in the first place). Not because it makes logical sense for the show.

By the way, “Black Boxes” aren’t black today and they aren’t boxes, either. They’re Day-Glo Orange cylinders to make them easier to find in wreckage.

I love the refit of Discovery, just wish it went a little further with new uniforms and repainted sets (brighter please!). Not that I dislike the Discovery uniforms, but it’s hard to believe anybody would be running around with 1,000 year old uniforms. If they don’t want to draw attention to their time-traveling crime, they should remove that obvious clue. I’m sure it’s a budget decision unfortunately, which seems to be slimmer this season.

Unfortunately it’s still hard to fathom the time span they are bridging here. The new technologies and circumstances feel more like 100-200 years more advanced (than TNG era). 1,000 years really should be fundamentally unrecognizable and incomprehensible. Just imagine humans from 1100 popping up today, they would barely be able to communicate, let alone comprehend our world.

Last edited 14 days ago by Michael K

I don’t think we can assume that we’ll have a constant rate of cultural and technological development. A lot of good sci-fi has been predicated on exactly the opposite

Thanks AtomicHorror.

I totally agree and have tried to make this point previously.

There seem to be quite a few folks on this board who seem to only look back to the 18th century when they think about human technological progress.

Even then, there have been major advances, such as coding for the difference engine, that end up having limited niche applications (power looms and player pianos) when they might have been transformative.

Trek as a franchise has already provided us speculative examples of human’s stalling in technological progress:
– after WW3
– prohibitions on genetic manipulation of the human genome following the Eugenics War.

In fact, any science fiction series that wants to have humans in it needs to provide a narrative as to why the singularity hasn’t happened. Discovery and Picard have each grappled with this in their own way.

That WOULD have been an explanation if Kurtzman hadn’t argued exactly the opposite. He stated the Federation, pre-Burn(ham), was as strong as ever and with 350 members, more than twice as large as in the 24th century. Nowhere has he suggested there was a centuries long dark age. Also, unless that dark age entailed a return to pre-industrial Agrarian societies we would not see a repeat of stagnant productivity or technology and clothing that remains invariable for a long time (if you are alluding to the significantly slower rate of growth amd development before the 18th century).

Industrialization let the cat out of the box and no matter what, we will not see a return to pre-Industrial societies save for a truly cataclysmic event that threatens human survival in itself. Clearly, even the Burn wasn’t that!

Last edited 13 days ago by Vulcan Soul

VS — strong as it ever was doesn’t mean a continued acceleration of technological progress, it could be pretty stagnant since they have deliberately chosen to avoid technologies that would lead to the singularity.

Kurtzman said that the Federation was as strong as it ever was before the Burn happened.

Clearly the Burn was cataclysmic.

But before that there had been more than a century of temporal conflict wherein Starfleet’s job was to prevent technology from moving back and forth through time. Sounds like a formula for technological stagnation to me.

Actually the technical development tends to go faster and faster. Rarely stagnates.

totally agree.

Plus we don’t know what might have happened in the period between Picard and the 32nd century. There may have been other near collapses of the Federation and periods of technological stagnation.

Yes, Michael K. That is a point I have brought up from time to time. They are awfully far in the future. their tech would literally look like magic to us. It just doesn’t feel that far advanced. Perhaps 4-500 years tops.

This is why when writers go SUPER far in the future there is always something that stagnates advancing tech. Many often regress. The main reason of course is because it is so hard to make a believable future that far forward.

I figured this would be a problem when the moved the show that far forward. Especially since they made a 23rd century ship look like a 25th century one to begin with.

A lot of people are raised the point about the uniforms and suggest it’s because of budget reasons. They’ve created a lot of new uniforms for the new SF base. I don’t think giving the main crew new uniforms is such a huge financial cost for the show. If for some reason it is, phase it in, like they did on TNG era shows. You sawy various versions of the TNG uniforms in the later years of that show as well as on DS9, when they switched to the movie uniforms.

Regardless, they should have the modern uniforms. All the shiny piping looks so retro compared to the modern uniforms and screams Disco !! Maybe John Travolta can do a cameo and dance through the hallways at one of those parties they showed last season.

One question I have after every episode. Why is the Discovery crew not more curious about the goals of this Federation?

Or the immediate history that followed their disappearance 900 years ago?

I suspect that the crew have been seeking library information on their key questions.

But they are also trying to cope with trauma and learn a vast amount of ne technical information.

Programmable matter made the upgrades possible to do quickly, and it sounds as though choices were made to keep the interfaces similar, but the whole crew is likely overwhelmed.

I suspect Culber has been advising that the amount of “new” and “news” needs to be titrated.

No I’m sure, but as far as a creative decision goes, not really touching on that is unfortunate to my mind. Heck, even Voyager found a little time to address the fallout of the Maquis finding out the Dominion wiped out their entire movement.

Ian, I think the comment at the end of 305 where Burnham says that she at least has someone to hope is alive in the 32nd century as well as Tilly’s comments at the memorial wall of badges in 303 definitely touch on this point.

The crew knows that everyone they care about passed centuries ago, that’s part of the miasma of grief and PTSD that was acknowledged in 304.

And that’s a bad creative decision IMO to barely acknowledge any of that. There is great mileage to be had from seeing these characters find out what became of their loved ones. Lord knows most of them are scantly-sketched as it is, this would be a golden opportunity to flesh them out.

Last edited 12 days ago by Ian

There was also a Klingon Empire badge in that bucket of badges BurningHam looks through. And whats with the copy and paste Disco ship junkyard? For once Id like to see a mix of Disco era and TNG era ships If they’re going to show relics!

TNG Era phaser was nice…if only it lasted more then 2 seconds on screen.

I am a harsh critic of Disco but admit its gotten better. I think it needs to do more to really integrate itself and include more elements from previous shows. Because somehow it seems like its own universe and dark and…not very Star Trek like. Its very much like the dark and cynical Star Wars universe instead.

Years from now when we all talk about Star Trek I believe we will consider this a very memorable episode.

For me, this episode again had some good examples of how uncreative the writers are about the future. What exactly the technical innovation of changeable matter is supposed to be, if one can produce matter from energy (replicators) since the 24th century anyway, one has to explain to me. And why do you need all the repair robots flying around when everything can be moulded out of “changeable” matter? But of course, the effect is cool, but unfortunately cheap and already consumed in dozens of other sci-fi series. So are the holo consoles. The same effects are used in New Trek in the 23rd (Discovery), the 24th (Picard) and now in the 32nd century. The only innovation: It’s all coming out of the Communicator now. Steve Jobs had the idea, a device for everything, already in 2008 with the iPhone. From the Apple marketing department, the authors seem to get their inspirations. Personal transporters were already available in the 24th century (ST Generations), so this is not new either, as is bioneural gel (seen in Voyager).

Visually, the show arrived somewhere between Blade Runner and Star Wars. The future, from the 23rd to the 32nd century, has somehow already been overtaken by the present. My highlight of pointless effects: Books ship, which converts in flight. Rarely seen in a sci-fi series such ridiculous. 

Dialogues, as always, are not exactly the strength of this episode. At least this time Georgiau has not used her special ability; Eye blink.

Oh, I’m curious to see what The Burn(ham) will be. ;-) …maybe a galactic emotional outbeak shock wave caused by Michael.

Alex, have you liked any episode of Star Trek in the last 3 years?

I admit, I’ve only noticed perhaps your last 3 episode reactions, but you seem to thoroughly dislike all of it.

Why do this to yourself?

“What exactly the technical innovation of changeable matter is supposed to be, if one can produce matter from energy (replicators) since the 24th century anyway, one has to explain to me.”

Let me explain it to you then ;) A replicator creates matter from energy in its final, static form (once).

Programmable matter can change indefinitely, dynamically and instantely between different states, such as a screwdriver that instantely turns into a hammer, i. e. you dont need to replicate new tools in the field all the time, or need a replicator to begin with.

There is a long running space opera series where programmable matter is a thing and when it fails it’s catastrophic.

In that series, SmartMetal TM doesn’t always do what’s promised, because like all codeable things it can be hacked or corrupted, or just crash when subjected to external radiation. The coding has to be super secure and resilient, kind of the opposite of the open coding used to repair the transtator in 302.

In particular, in that series, SmartMetal TM enables starships to reconfigure for battle vs low risk transits. This is basically what we saw happen when Book’s ship crunched to fit in Discovery’s shuttle bay, and when it reconfigured to fight.

However, if people aren’t in the right spots when the ship reconfigures, they can be killed. If an enemy attack breaks down the coding, and the programmable matter loses coherence, the result is a lot of dead people in space.

Now, it sounds as though Starfleet does have secure programmable matter. But not infinite amounts.

Nice, PM hacking could be the new holodeck malfunction. Endless episode plots abound! ;)

I correct you. Matter formed by ernergy from a replicator is not static at all. It can be reformed in energy to convert it into something else. We have allready seen such technology in an TNG episode where they used repair drones with exactly that ability to replicate each tool they need. Also have we seen the use of nano technology to repair matter by the Borg. It is not new at all.

My point is you still need a replicator to create and/or dissolve tools. You can’t transmute one tool into another instantely, on its own, without any auxiliary device. That’s where it’s superior.

Yes you have the point.

Programmable matter is efficient because it morphs into recorded forms, as we saw with the transtator components or Book’s ship.

This is different than, and would use much less energy than decomposing an item to pure energy and unreplicatable elements. Programmable matter is fast and convenient, but can’t become an infinite diversity of things.

One of the lessons we should have picked up from the Orion scavengers is that rare metals and components made from true elements rather than programmable matter have value.

In the Picard finale they use a tool that can morph into any shape and fix anything

Yes, but that’s not Federation technology but superior alien one. Why they wouldn’t adapt it though is as questionable as Khan’s magic blood and all that Borg technology from Voyager ;)

Ok, I just rewatched the beginning of Calypso and new theory time!!!

For the record, I saw someone else mention this first but maybe Calypso is just a different timeline? Maybe an altered timeline, so some of it remains true to the PU like Kelvin did but some things still different enough. Because looking at Calypso and seeing what they did with Discovery in this episode, it’s no way the two adds up anymore.

There is no ‘A’ on the Calypso ship and it’s obvious it’s the same looking ship from pre-32nd century, just with Zora. And of course the producers are well aware of this and still added the A anyway. So maybe we ARE thinking too hard about Calypso at this point and that one is in a entirely different universe and our Discovery isn’t going to be abandoned at anytime, at least not a thousand years.

Thoughts?

Discovery arrived at the Federation, but given the multiple other worlds they are not in contact with, I think there are actually more than one Federations. And perhaps the “bad one” becomes the V’Draysh – and even Michael hasn’t figured that out after a year. I’m not sure how that relates to what happens to Discovery, but perhaps it’s a puzzle piece.

The Federations being viewed as this big bad could depend on perspective. If you lived in the Soviet Union during the Cold War then America and the other Western Powers were this terrible evil. It could be the same for some of those living on some of the more distant former colonies. Maybe some of these worlds decided to join up with the Andorians who seem to have rediscovered their more belligerent natures.

As for the differences in design for Discovery maybe they will eventually get around to addressing this. In real life I assume that it was just down to Calypso being written and produced back before they had begun planning on season 3 and the future tech. If they feel it’s worth addressing they will do it eventually.

I actually read somewhere someone else making this theory and there could possibly be different versions of the Federation in this time period since so much of the organization is fragmented and the right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing anymore. So I can buy that’s what the V’Draysh is, an alternate form of the Federation and maybe went much darker because of their situation in their area of space. That could make a lot of sense.

But it doesn’t explain why both Discovery ships are now so different from each other? Unless the Discovery ship in Calypso is an older version of the ship we have now and that one waited around 100 years, but my head hurts just thinking about it lol.

Actually everything on Discovery feels like it’s an entirely different time line. This feels like a reboot of a reboot but producers after years still don’t want to call it that.

Well basing the show so far in the future now basically is a reboot. We know most of the players but everything involving them is different. They are building brand new canon so that’s basically what it is. This is where the show should’ve been on day one and they can mostly do what they want.

For me at least, I do not see this future as set in stone. I still consider this one “possible” future and not THE future. If they treat it THAT way then they absolutely can feel free to literally do anything they want without having to worry about anything that was established about anyone or anything from 800 years earlier.

Adira is not a ‘tween. Tweens are around 9-12 years of age, between childhood and the teen years. Adira is what, sixteen, I think? Therefore a full-fledged teenager.

I had the same reaction.

But all of these terms are social constructs around biological developmental stages that vary widely in absolute age across individuals. I wouldn’t expect Stamets to be precise on language.

Yes. Glad you brought that up. It’s bad enough that they made this person 16. But then Stammets had to call her a “tween”. So was he being sarcastic? Ignorant? Did the writers not know what a ‘tween’ is?

Tonight on Star Trek: We Wish We Were Star Wars:

It’s like everyone on Discovery is in some twisted abusive relationship with Burnham. Even when she blatantly breaks rules, sometimes endangering the welfare of the crew, everyone’s upset they then have to call her on it.
“It’s okay, Captain Saru. <sob!> You do what you have to do. Don’t feel bad for me. I– I can take it, even though I’m pretty much worthless as an officer on your ship.”
“I’m sorry, Burnham, I’m demoting you because, well, <sob!> because you’re kind of an a-hole and you’re screwing everything up here. Please forgive me!!!”
It’s a shame really, because with a more courageous team of producers and writers there’s actually a compelling Trek show to be made about a high-ranking officer who can’t follow the rules, potentially putting their ship and crew in danger (we *almost* had it with Jason Isaacs and Lorca until they wimped out of doing something interesting with that one) but with this one, Burnham’s character is so utterly unlikable and so difficult to relate to and respect, yet is simply rewarded at every turn by being the key to every problem’s solution. If only the audience could like Burnham as much as Discovery’s writers do.
Glad you folks are enjoying the show but dude, it’s like torturing myself every week watching this. (And yes, I recognize that’s my problem…)

Last edited 13 days ago by blackmocco

People will point out that Kirk broke the rules too, but he often relied on his crew to support his actions, and he didn’t do it at the drop of a hat. So far in just the past six episodes, Burnham has disobeyed orders and gone off on her own twice, and suggested stealing from Starfleet to support her own goals. She needs to be relieved from duty altogether, and get counseling. Obviously she has some narcissistic personality issues that need to be addressed and personal issues from her past year. I get that Saru is still adjusting to being captain and to supposedly having a spine now, but he needs to stop letting her walk all over him. I’m waiting for the day when her actions have consequences that stick.

All the characters around Burnham are written as snivelling wimps, particularly Saru. A crutch to tell her how great she is or how they wish they could be like her. Seriously! Once an episode, someone has to do it. It’s like a drinking game at this point! I’d love it if they actually leaned into how flawed and unreliable she is as a crewmember but alas, this is not that show…

Last edited 13 days ago by blackmocco

I agree… I said this a few weeks a go, they should have left her in jail. A disgraced SF officer never mentioned by proud Vulcans. She is a great Actress, and I would hate to lose her from the show, but hell, they should have found a way to bring her MU self back. It would be very Trek like to have a reformed MU version of a major character star in the self-redemption story. They have stalled out on that twice intentionally (Lorca and Georgio). I do hope they have some better plans for Georgio as well.

Last edited 13 days ago by Zuko

I would like to see Willa become first officer.

?

Good idea!

I am loving this season, but I really hated the inclusion of Grey in the Adira/Stammets conversation. “He thinks you’re cool” was top notch cringe, and not in a fun “The Office” sort of way.

Once again, once the premise was set up everything that happened was 100% predictable. Before the main complaint for the writers was they were just bad. Now it seems they are just lazy.

That said the show is still not good. But even in this state it’s a little better than what we saw in season 2. As I said last week, perhaps in a few seasons the show might reach mediocre level.

Two more comments. First of all, I think the concept of mushrooms as a method of transport is just plain dumb, but if you accept it for the shows sake, then how in 1,000 years has no one ever reinvented it again in either the federation or any alien race. No invention EVER stands alone.

The other thing, can there be an episode of Discovery this year where no one cries. Geez, come on already.

I’m still trying to figure out how the EPs reconcile statements like “so much more joyful” with tears every episode.

I actually do find it fair that everyone’s emotions are at the surface after all they’ve been through, and I think it’s to the benefit of the show to honestly show how traumatic experiences leave people on a rollercoaster. There is a reason why modern militaries rotated troops through decompression centers/camps for a few weeks before bringing them home.

But promoting the season or even just Burnham as “joyful” is just odd.

It’s very trippy, mannn

A good point. Tears are found on someone in nearly every single episode thus far.

And yes, I’ve been saying for a very long time that it is absurd that no one followed up on even the concept of a spore drive. It someone came up with it in the 23rd century, someone later on would come up with it too. Guaranteed. It’s a major plot hole that is very difficult to get past.

Not sure I call that a plot hole.

We know that the spore tech is delicate, complicated and difficult to make workable. Even the ethically devoid MU Stamets didn’t figure it out.

So, it’s possible that some other society in the PU worked it out and that Discovery may bump into others in the mycellial network. But that would be a plot development not a plot hole.

I don’t think that we’re ever going to agree on tech development.

In grad school, I saw too many cases of promising possibilities that never came to widespread and viable use. Or, technologies like Da Vinci’s air screw or the Difference Engine of the early 19th century to take well known examples of inventions that never happened to have widespread societal impact.
Even financial engineering could have happened nearly a century earlier if anyone had paid attention to Bachelier and his martingales.

Last edited 12 days ago by TG47

In over 1,000 years, with hundreds of Federation members, the odds of a technology not being reinvented is almost ZERO.

An how about the fact they can’t even keep continuity with themselves. In the ST Short when the Discovery evolves the hull number has NO “A” and is the original bronze color, so how was it just relabeled with an “A” and turned blue?

No, it’s a plot hole. As David says below the chances that NO ONE reinvents the wheel in 900 years virtually zero. It worked before, just kept secret. Eventually someone somewhere in the alpha quadrant would have tried it.

The fact that some ideas failed to take hold is not a reason to assume that tech typically stagnates throughout time. There are tons of reasons why this would be the case. Further, the ideas you cited were rather large leaps for their time so if they had been worked on it would have been an unusually large jump, rather than the methodical more typical advancement rate of the day.

What was the reason given for MU Burnham getting killed?

I think they are leading to flashbacks where the MU Burnham attempts to overthrow Georgio, and she kills Burnham. All that blood in her hands in the flashback is for something important….

but Tyler’s name also came up and that triggered Georgio to collapse, so maybe MU Tyler and MU Burnham were lovers and MU Tyler tried to kill Georgio (convincing Burhnham to help him).

Georgio kills Tyler. In a fit of rage, MU Burnham attacks Georgio who kills her. Georgio has always felt guilty over that which explains why she is so protective of PU Burnham now.

This could allow them to bring back Tyler and perhaps other Kilngons in MU flashback scenes. Georgio hinted that she does not trust Burnham now, so that supports this theory.

I know that MU Burnham was supposidly killed in a shuttlecraft during her attempted coup with Lorca, but they could still play this out.

The music in this series is very heavy handed. There’s not more than one or two minutes before a new music cue starts. It’s especially obvious when a campy or lighthearted scene is happening and it actually takes away from any surprises. They should really dial it back and let the dialog breathe. It ends up feeling very “video game” or elevatory. A 60 minute episode shouldn’t have 55 minutes of music.

Last edited 13 days ago by Bassmaster22

Giving all these other ships registries a letter suffix is just dumb. Enterprise got it because the crew saved the planet (and even that was bordering on dumb) “from it’s own shortsightedness”. It was a one-off gesture that frankly, should have come to an end after A.

Now they just slap that sucker on every ship to bear the same name as a previous ship. That’s not how it’s supposed to work, and it looks ridiculous.

Thank you! I NEVER liked the letters. It started in a very bad movie and they continued with that concept forever. It never made sense from the start. Why did they do it JUST for Kirk? It was just the final “screw you fans” that movie gave the audience. No wait… The final “screw you” fans was putting the final credits up against stills from the movie. SUPER cheezy. Was that supposed to be an homage to their TV show roots? But I digress….

As Tiger2 said above, this was probably the weakest episode of S3. That said, episode 6 has grown on me a little after watching it the second time around.
Burnham reminds me a little of Ro Laren. Confident to a fault and someone who is sure that Starfleet has a lot to learn from her – a character trait that Picard saw in many of the finest officers he ever knew. Ro ended up leaving Starfleet for the Maquis, we shall see where Burnham eventually ends up – the story should be fun to watch.
Liked the new tech at the beginning of the show as well as the character development and relationships in this one.
As I said, probably the weakest episode of this season, but with the more episodic style they are using – it is understandable that each episode won’t be a home run and easy to hope that next week’s episode and story will be better.

The comparison to Ro Laren only goes so far though. Ro was arrogant, closed-off and stubborn, traits TNG used to introduce some much needed conflict amongst the characters and highlight how far she had to go to better herself and glean some much-needed wisdom and maturity.

In contrast, Discovery worships Burnham when she displays these traits, making it clear – and then repeatedly smashing us over the head with a giant hammer in case we don’t get it – that it’s everyone around her who’s thinking is wrong and she’s the only one who’s right.

TNG ultimately tries to tell us that we’re better off when we overcome our flaws and work together as a unit. So far, Discovery has told us the opposite. Again, there’s an interesting Trek show to be made exploring that path but this show rewards and celebrates Burnham’s flaws for no good reason.

Last edited 12 days ago by blackmocco

Yeah, probably one of the weaker outings. Were I a guessing man? There was some robust dialog in the writers room. Things were done to help Saru develop as Captain. A nice moment for Tilly and Saru, as well. For myself, with Burnham going rogue (again) was lazy writing to get Saru to that moment where he had to demote Burnham. Thing is, she’s been there, done that before, on the Shenzou. Her decision to go rogue, in my opinion, undoes all the work she did to get back INTO Starfleet. Where does Burnham go from here? Other than to embrace her “dark side” or work her way back into Saru’s good graces? Either way, it’ll be hard to make either journey for her character believable, or interesting. (For me anyways) Now, I agree with Anthony in that MAYBE these decisions will pay off later this season or NEXT season. I just wish Burnham would stop “whispering” her way through all of her dialog. There were bits and pieces that were good about this ep but it feels like it was a bunch of starter dishes at Applebee’s with no entree. This whole Georgiou passing out thing at the wrong time just to come to at the right time was again, lazy writing. On top of all of that, this is why Star Trek NEEDS to be on TV, not the movies. When there is a bum outing? There’s always next week to recover. When it’s a great outing? Can’t wait for next week! Overall, I’m really enjoying season 3. Culber is a standout character for myself. Wilson Cruz is doing a great job. Adira and Gray look interesting, I’m excited for the LGBTQ representation in the series. (I’ve a gay sibling and friends who are over the moon at seeing these characters on TV) I hope the writers don’t fall into the Wesley trap and have Adira, save the day, too many times. In fact, I could see Culber taking command in some situations. Bring on next week!

If the -A was added because they list Discovery as destroyed, might there not be other letters before A that were used, if the ship was important enough to warrant letter designations on later ships? Also does it make sense to emblazon a big low-number#-NCC-A on the hull for all to go ‘hmm whats that ship about?’ – that century is well into 5 or 6 digit #’s, and the low #’s all seem to having letters like J at this point, which begs the question ‘how come we’re suddenly honoring a 23rd century ship that hasn’t been up to now’ – when they’re trying to hide things like the spore drive? Wouldn’t it be smarter to just give her a new 5-number designation so she blends in at least a bit more?

I’d say we will see Tilly as First Officer soon. All other characters have their own occupations already. And did we all recognize Michael laid down her badge and maybe her entire Starfleet commitment?

Last edited 12 days ago by AtzeH

If an ensign gets to be first officer just because she’s on the command development track, that would imply a fairly disgusting caste system.

But it’s clear that officers in the command program can move from ops and science specialties to command – as both Saru and Burnham have done.

First Officers have the job of managing and delivering the ship and crew’s readiness as well as leading away missions. Since TNG, Trek has done fairly well in showing this, particularly with Riker, Chakotay, Ransom, Saru and even Burnham in the last couple of episodes.

The critical criteria for first officer would normally be:
– have they completed the command training and test?
– are they ready to take command in the Captain’s absence (including will the crew follow them)?
– can they fight the ship in battle?

And in Saru’s case, he needs is reflexive obedience and timidity to be challenged by an number one who can see different options and push him to seek input from his entire complement of officers.

The failure in 306 was his, not just Burnham’s.

And part of it is that Saru lacks the confidence to chair a roundtable and get input. He only takes on his officers one on one, and uses paternalistic authority to shut down advice he doesn’t want to hear. He needs to become authoritative rather than authoritarian. In dealing with Burnham it’s seemed like he was channelling his father’s unwillingness to discuss alternatives in “The Brightest Star.”

So, a balancing Number One is definitely needed.

There are only a few known characters with command rank: Reno is a full commander; Stamets and Culber are lieutenant commanders but in specialties less to cross to command.

Nihlsson is the natural in terms of her current role, but she’s only recently moved from engineering to senior watch / 2nd officer, and is a full lieutenant not lieutenant commander.

Owo seems more ready to take on the role, but we haven’t seen her take the big chair on watch and is likewise a lieutenant.

Bottom line: When I think of who could stand up to Saru and complement him, it would be Reno. But somehow, I don’t see it will be the solution the writers will go with.

How did Book’s ship find Federation Command, and get there without the spore drive from Earth? Sena Tal left Earth on a generational ship, which I assumed would be a decades long journey. But Book’s ship just got there?
And the Bajoran Exchange was within a 12 hour return trip of Federation Command (which Burnham alluded to)?

I’m really hoping that there will be less of Burnham now that she has been demoted. The emotional outbursts, whisper-talking, insubordination and her self-importance above everyone else is too much now.

Book was given a generous amount of real dilithium so he could use his warp drive, he didn’t need to have the super jumping ability of the spore drive.

We also know that his ship has a quantum slipstream drive. That requires benamite, which he said he didn’t have in 301, but may have been able to trade to acquire.

It’s hard to tell with the vfx in Discovery, but the FTL journey that they took looked more like a slipstream — and that would be consistent with the time it took to return.

Dont like it. Dont like it all. All those new tech able to do everything just feels empty. The new matter can transform into everything, beds appearing, consoles appearing. No tricorder, no transporter, the badge can do everything. How does this work?
The detached nacelles are an allegory to this show: cut lose all logic, all human sense and just do a action show. Sorry, that is not enough. And all those patriotic starfleet babble just feels awkward. Its not like starfleet behaves.
I am sorry to say but the writers just dont get it. They dont feel if it is a good star trek story, and when not.

I like it. It’s fun.

Interesting how some here are complaining that technologies haven’t advanced enough, while others are saying that anything they don’t understand is ruining the show for them.

Wehmut, I think you would have criticized floppy discs and flip phones if you’d been watching TOS in the 60s.

Again…good episode ruined by..
Burnham defying orders
Burnham crying and emotional
Burnham comes back to Discovery and pretty much gets away with everything again

I just watched the Trekyard video breaking down the redesign of Discovery for the 32nd century and man, they did change a lot! It’s amazing just how much they have listening to them. Captain Foley calls the Tron ship lol. Seeing how much detail of the changes, it’s clear how different the ship is now versus before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FySb6Bu9Ezw&t=2s

I really can’t wait to see it in action now!

Last edited 11 days ago by Tiger2

Thanks Tiger2,

Yes, these are the guys to look at the upgrades and updates.

Theory…
I think Georgiou’s flashbacks are memories. I think that section 31 will send Georgiou back and she will end up killing Burnam’s mother.
It’s this memory of the alternate timeline over-writing the brain.

in the flashback she seems to be standing over someone wearing a red angel suit.

Was looking at the make-up time lapse for Volor the Orion nephew, and close ups of his wig.

The red highlights in the hair are a good touch since we’ve seen red headed Orions previously.

But it made me think that aunt Ossyra will be a red head…and Discovery is casting tallish actors for Orions.

Which made me think of Suzie Plakson. She’s the right age to be an aunt, and she’d rock the Orion syndicate oligarch role.

More it would push her up to four aliens (Vulcan, half-Klingon, Q already).