Review: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Gets Into The Fight In “The Sanctuary”

“The Sanctuary”

Star Trek: Discovery Season 3, Episode 8 – Debuted Thursday, December 3, 2020
Teleplay by Kenneth Lin & Brandon Schultz
Directed by Jonathan Frakes

SPOILER-FREE REVIEW

An adequate mid-season episode that did a good job of moving a number of plot and character arcs forward but perhaps juggled a few too many at the same time. Director Jonathan Frakes drew out some good performances and delivered some of the best action for the season so far.

So they are one of those matching outfits kinds of couples

 

 

WARNING: Spoilers below!

“I have to go home”

After seven episodes of keeping one foot out the airlock, Michael makes good on her recommitment to Starfleet by taking Book’s request to return to his homeworld up the chain of command. Apparently, Admiral Vance has heard this sob story before of Osyraa and the Emerald Chain offering Faustian bargains to pre-warp worlds. Book’s home planet Kwejian is trading tranceworms in exchange for some space crop-dusting to deal with some sci-fi locusts. Vance doesn’t want to risk the Discovery to help but proves to be a big softy after Saru and Michael promise not to let the Emerald Chain scratch the new smart paint.

We also start off by setting up all sorts of subplots on board the Discovery. Tilly and Saru start trying to work out their first officer/captain dynamic. Culber is putting a very reluctant Georgiou under the super scanner to see what her deal is. Stamets and Adira are DJing all the weird sounds coming from the Ni’Var data on The Burn. Detmer is still coping with all her new high-tech controls. Ryn the Andorian refugee from the Emerald Chain wants off the ship until he finds out Osyraa is lurking about. Oh, and if that wasn’t enough, Linus is shedding. This episode is already very busy, and it’s just getting started.

What do you mean, it’s only cool when Captain Pike says it?

“You’re scared of the monster you serve”

Book’s reunion with his empath brother from another mother does not go well. These two had a falling out back when Kyheem sided with the Emerald Chain to become the Steward of the Kwejian sanctuary and started selling tranceworms to be slaughtered. Kyheem’s urgent call turns out to just be him doing Osyraa’s bidding to bring Ryn (the Andorian she de-antenna-ed) to her. After a few rounds of backstory, Book starts chipping away at Kyheem’s dedication to an evil overlord.

And right on time, Osyraa shows up in her heavily armed ship to face off against the Discovery, which tries its best to play the friendly observer card. Citing protocol to give Ryn asylum, Saru and Osyraa trade barbs and slave history lessons on Kelpiens and Orions. When she runs out of patience for all this Starfleet nonsense, she starts bombarding the planet and says she won’t stop until she gets what she wants. There was no maniacal laugh or twirling of a mustache… but those were implied.

No wonder you were nervous about me meeting your family.

“You still need fancy equipment to deconstruct me?”

Before setting off for her adventure, Michael checks Georgiou into Sickbay to get a futuristic “atomic scan” to sort out what the hell is going on with her. After a few rounds of fun verbal jousting and light threatening with doctors Culber and Pollard, Phillipa dons a sperm suit “hyper-conductive” medical outfit for the procedure. Things get tense when the flashbacks of San return, causing the “electromagnetic gel” covering Phillipa to make her go full cubist.

For all her posturing, Culber nails that she’s actually terrified. Wilson Cruz goes toe-to-evil-toe with Michelle Yeoh. She knows whatever is happening to her is serious, and the traumatic atomic scan confirms the worst: She is dying. With so much else going on in this episode, that’s all we are going to get from this mystery box.

If your scan shows I recently ate some Kelpien Krisps, that is protected by doctor/patient confidentiality, right?

“It sounds like music”

Over in Stamets’ lab the search for the origin of The Burn is finally getting somewhere, and that somewhere is the Verubin Nebula, its point of origin. In a classic Trek technobabble teamwork scene, Saru, Stamets, Tilly, and Adira work out there is a Federation distress signal coming from the center of that nebula and it appears to be the source of that mysterious music everyone has been hearing. Mind blown. But put a pin in this: It will take the rest of the episode and beyond to crunch the data enough to get the full picture, moving The Burn investigation into a future episode.

With the algorithm churning away, Adira spends the rest of the episode bonding with Stamets, who has become something of a surrogate father, which includes a lovely scene of them playing music together. Adira finally opens up about being non-binary, and of course Paul is cool with that. And Adira is definitely in need of the support, as they are not coping well with the confusion of hosting a Trill symbiont. “I’m waking up every day and I never know who I am going to feel more.” Even worse, Gray is no longer talking to them. But like The Burn and the Emperor’s brain, this thread is also left hanging for another episode.

Adira in Star Trek: Discovery "The Sanctuary"

Jadzia gets Tongo, I get the cello

“I’m about to do something that might get us both killed”

Even with the bridge crew reminding Saru of Vance’s watchy-no-shooty orders, Saru isn’t about to sit back and let the people of Kwejian get wiped out by this Greenie Meanie. But newly minted XO Tilly has a diplomatic workaround that involves Detmer going rogue in Book’s ship with Ryn as co-pilot to point out all of the weaknesses in Osyraa’s cruiser. This seems a bit convoluted as the thuggish Emerald Chain are not the Sheliak, so shooting at them via legal loopholes probably won’t work. But it does allow for some big-budget space action.

Getting Keyla off the bridge does appear to have the added benefit of curing her 32-century yips. Eschewing all the fancy safe controls, Detmer goes old school and full manual as she darts Book’s ship around, picking off all the weak points in an exciting and fun space battle sequence. She even has time to give some courage to Ryn the Cowardly Andorian. Turns out all that talking to Culber about feelings and stuff wasn’t needed and adrenaline is the real cure to PTSD—who knew? Osyraa decides to bail but throws some over-the-top ominous “You have just sealed your own fate and the fate of the Federation” blah blah blah villain warnings before she goes. We will be seeing her again, you can be sure.

Down on the planet, Book and Kyheem have a final showdown fight, but when push comes to shove and then to dart gun, brother can’t pull the trigger. Aww. But with the Chain gone, they re left with their original problem, famine-causing sea locusts. Michael has the solution, taken straight from the season two Blu-ray. Using the ship’s tech they can enhance the brother’s head glow thing to politely ask all the locusts to GTFO… and it works.

So, what was the big deal that caused Osyraa to go to all this trouble? Ryn knows her big secret and it isn’t that she wears a terrible wig, because that is pretty obvious. Turns out the Emerald Chain is running out of dilithium. Maybe he could have just broadcast the secret and saved everyone the trouble, but we got there in the end. He learned an important lesson that the Federation is actually not so bad after all and so did Book, who ends things saying he is ready to sign up with the good guys.

I thought you said this was the garden spot of Kwejian

ANALYSIS

So many stories, so little time

“The Sanctuary” is one of those middling episodes that happens around the halfway point of serialized seasons. It has a number of good moments, but unlike last week’s episode, it suffers slightly from trying to do too many things at the same time. While it juggled too many important character arcs, it was a nice change of pace to spread the heroism around and not have everything be about Michael. And in the case of Detmer, everything clicked, fitting organically with the plot, and was fun along the way. Emily Coutts continues to impress, and her partner-in-crime Noah Averbach-Katz is making Ryn into an interesting character as well.

As for Tilly’s debut as first officer, so far she comes off more as an excellent executive assistant. And her lawyerly idea to have Book’s ship do the fighting might have helped give Detmer some relief, but clearly it didn’t work, and if Vance falls for the “she went rogue” BS, he is the one who deserves a demotion. As for when half the bridge crew starts questioning Saru’s orders, she is the one who should have shut that stuff down. Hopefully, this mixed bag for the acting first officer is what the writers intended.

With the highly anticipated introduction of Osyraa, it was a bit of a letdown that she turned out to be a simple brutish villain. Season three has brought in some impressive guest stars, but Canadian actress Janet Kidder didn’t do much with what she was given. This is a bit surprising in an episode helmed by Jonathan Frakes, who is known as an actor’s director.

But Frakes made up for it when it came to working with some of the regulars, especially Sonequa Martin-Green. Michael’s growth as a character both in how she fits in with the ship and with her resident BF Book all felt right for where we are in the season. And the former Number One definitely delivered when it came to the action in the episode, both on the planet and the space battles, which were especially fun and exciting. With so much going on, the pacing still worked, although some of the comic moments may fall flat for some, as humor is subjective.

This is how a first officer stares at people, right?

Unsolved Mysteries

This episode did find time to move a number of season arc plots forward. It started with a lot of promise when it came to The Burn investigation, tying some loose ends together with those clues about the music that were sprinkled into earlier episodes. Dropping that tantalizing clue that a Federation ship sending out a distress call is at the center of the nebula at the origin point is a lot to chew on, but running out the clock on unlocking more via Adira’s algorithm was almost cruel.

As for the Emperor, it’s starting to look like she is just ill, and while it may actually not be something Kovich did to her, it is somehow tied to her past in the Mirror Universe. The scenes with Wilson Cruz and Michelle Yeoh were a delight and it’s great that he continues to stretch and be more of a doctor in season three.

We learned a lot about Book’s origin story, but there are still quite a few blank spots, including how he got his name, what kind of an empath he is, and what those glowing things are on his forehead. The exploration of his home planet did more to reveal the post-Burn Federation, no longer capable of protecting pre-warp civilizations from being exploited by the likes of the Emerald Chain, than it showed us life on Kwejian. You can see how this pains Admiral Vance; Starfleet just isn’t what it used to be by a long, long way. It’s also curious how many seem to have a very dim view of Starfleet and the Federation, even down to scary stories told to little Andorian children.

I’ll get you, my pretty, and your little cat too!

Playing it safe

In the end, “The Sanctuary” is a by-the-numbers Discovery episode, doing what it needed to do. It didn’t take any big swings, except maybe with some of Saru’s catchphrases. While offering delectable bits of just about everything with an extra helping of action, there was no big idea or thee to really sink your teeth into.

With just five episodes left, there is still a lot of ground left to cover in what remains Discovery’s best season.

I’m having an allergic reaction to wearing white, don’t you know I’m from the Mirror Universe?

Random extra bits

  • It’s nice for Culber to finally get a desk.
  • A map in Vance’s office showed a “Klingon Zone.”
  • On the Salvage planet, Osyraa held a Starfleet badge from the late 24th century (like those seen in Star Trek: Picard).
  • Osyraa’s ship is named Viridian, which is a color that mixes green and blue and an appropriate name for the flagship of the Orion/Andorian Emerald Chain alliance.
  • Why do all guns on Discovery make so much noise? (Even wooden dart guns.)
  • The USS Discovery has a music room with a piano… unless that was one of the new holodecks installed with the refit.
  • It is again mentioned that Book’s ship is capable of using transwarp, but in this case with only a 50% chance of surviving the trip to Kwejian.
  • Osyraa uses the Bajoran measurement of land area hecapate when threatening how much of the planet she will destroy.
  • Saru workshopping his catchphrase is reminiscent of Captain Freeman doing the same on Star Trek: Lower Decks.
  • Captain catchphrase candidates suggested or attempted include:
    • Execute
    • Hit it. (but possibly with a different spin that Captain Pike)
    • Manifest
    • Carry on
  • With all their fancy medical tech, why haven’t they replaced Ryn’s antennae?
  • Discovery first used the method of transmitting a signal to an entire species in “The Sound of Thunder.” In that case, it was used to evolve all Kelpiens through vahar’ai.
  • If the sea locusts move back out to sea, won’t they just starve?
  • Line of the week: “His name is Linus, and you can peel off a part of his face if you want.”

Remember when I was a robot?

More to come

Every Friday the new TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek Podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe and discusses the latest episode. The podcast is available on Apple PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsStitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.


New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery premiere on Thursdays on CBS All Access in the U.S. and on CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada, where it’s also available to stream on Crave. Episodes are available on Fridays internationally on Netflix.

Keep up with all the news and reviews from the new Star Trek Universe on TV at TrekMovie.com.

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***-******-1 Uniform in next Week Trailer was my fav. moment.

I hope next week they have an all star kal-if-fee match between Georgiou and Osyraa.

Complete with the Gerald Fried dramatic underscore!

I second that!

I’ve been wondering about the antennae myself…especially as we know from ENT that they grow back, albeit slowly. (Perhaps something was done to them to prevent that, but it’s nothing that future medical tech couldn’t handle.)

Speaking of Ryn, though, it took the end credit for me to realize that he’s played by…Mary Wiseman’s husband. How about that?

The sea locusts were OK before they moved onto land, so presumably they won’t starve at sea.

Thanks for saying what that badge was- I was wondering where it came from.

I found “execute” hilarious because that word is used to translate innocuous Hebrew words in Israel, giving them a new twist. There’s a government agency called “The Execution Office” in English which is not at all what it sounds like (it’s the equivalent of the sheriff’s repo office in the US), and one (winning) mayoral campaign in Jerusalem promised that he “Will Execute” when he meant “will get things done.”

I think they should go with “Punch It” as a tribute to Kelvin Pike. In fact, I’ve always thought that “Hit It” was a tribute to that.

I hope I can say something here that won’t be taken as offensive, because it’s not meant to be: If people are going to be referred to as “they,” can we at least use a singular verb? “They is” may sound weird, but it’s a lot less confusing than referring to an individual as “they are.”

Singular ‘they’ is perfectly grammatically correct and ‘are’ is the correct form of the verb ‘to be’.

What I’ve always found a bit confusing is I’ve always taken ‘they’ as a singular pronoun to mean a person of indeterminate or unknown gender, whereas when it’s used in this context it seems to be a very definite statement of fitting into neither male nor female categories, which is different. I may be misunderstanding that though.

Either way it doesn’t matter. It’s good to try to understand I think, but the thing that really matters is accepting and respecting it.

I think “they are” also works because they are a trill with multiple identities within Adira.

Indeed- although she implied that she felt that before. (She said she’s told Gray, so unless she told him in the last few days, it would be before Gray’s death.) But a good point, yes.

I feel like therein lies the issue with handling of Adira’s gender. Audience gets an “excuse” via the Tal symbiont (as well as Gray’s soul) to have an “explanation” beyond plain Adira-the-human being non-binary. Adira should have been unambiguously human. If writers wanted an alien proxy for transgender issues, then a Vissian cogenitor or a new species could have easily been used.

And also, they still need to feel weird about discussing gender a thousand years in our future, amidst thousands of crazy alien species? Star Trek social messages work because we see how things can just be, say by showing a 1960s audience how a black woman can just be an equal on the bridge, or by highlighting things via alien characteristics (again, aforementioned Cogenitor episode). Adding awkward highlights to it makes it weaker, not stronger.

The blunted antennae… never thought about that, honestly. Completely forgot they should regrow. Maybe they were burned at the root. I no longer have a toenail on my right foot because it (the toenail) was burned off at the root to prevent it from re-growing. Maybe some kind Orion antennae torture?

Didn’t they say in an episode if a cut off antennae is cauterized it wouldn’t grow back?

I felt the need for the Captain to have some sort of “word” was silly. They may as well have him say “Make it so”. They can argue that Saru said it first.

You are used to saying “you are” to 1 person :)

Well, yeah, because I (and all of us) are used to it, I guess. :-)

To be pedantic, originally in English “you” was plural and the singular would be “thou art.” :-)

But if you’re from the South, you have to address them as y’all.

Has everyone forgotten that Pike said “Engage” in The Cage? Picard may have made it famous to Trek fans, but Pike had it first. No reason Saru couldn’t use it.

Just sayin’.

For the record, Captain Styles from Search for Spock did say, “Execute.”

So did Kurn in “Sins of the Father”

Was it in the season 6 DS9 episode “Resurrection” (The one with mirror Bareil) commandant Kira says people from mirror universe eventually die if they remain in the prime universe? Can’t bring myself to watch it again to find out.

Not 100% sure Discovery writers would be pulling the plot point from there but they had made deeper cut references before.

The Emerald Chain is interesting. Did the Andorians leave the Federation too? Yeah now I need to see this.

Since we are on “Disco”, Saru should say, “Hustle!” Or when he is more relaxed, simply, “Do the Hustle.”

He should say “Warm… warmer… Disco!”

Last edited 6 months ago by Toretto

He should say “Licht aus, Spot an!’

Leave the poor cat out of this, will ya!?

Hee! Cute!

It’s Discovery so it should be:

“Let’s Feel It!”

D.I.S.C.Go !

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️😉

David wins
Reminds me of Rikers “give me warp in the factor of 5..6..7..8”

Last edited 6 months ago by apc0408

Don’t have a cow, man!….oops, wrong show.

For this crew the phrase should be: “Hug and cry!”

I was all excited to suggest that his catchphrase be, in his deepest and must sultry Barry White voice, “Dooooo it.”

And then I remembered that was Janeway’s. BLAST!!!!

This Adira/Stamets friendship/mentorship REALLY works for me. Adira’s request (finally) for they/them/their pronouns was nice and the revelation that Stamets was the second person to get this request, after Gray, was especially sweet. “The Ready Room” interviews regarding this scene made me misty eyed.

I thought the treatment was clumsy. Why would they snap at Stamets for not knowing something they then next thing say they’ve told no one except Gray? And then the follow-on conversation with Culber where they conspicuously use “they” as many times as one can in the space of two sentences. It feels forced and preachy, verging on scolding (indeed, Adira scolded Stamets). I don’t see how this detail will advance the story. The writers could have used “they” from the outset and no one would have batted an eye, I think. But this was unartful, and doesn’t much further the cause the producers are hoping to advance.

That is something I sensed. That scene where Stammets and Culber went WAY out of the way to hammer home the “they” thing. We get it. Subtlety is something these writers don’t seem to be familiar with at all.

Precisely so. I don’t know how many times I’ve used the word “ham-fisted” on these boards since Discovery premiered, but it probably numbers in the multiple dozens. Dead and gone is the thoughtful, nuanced writing we came to expect in the TNG-DS9 era. They set out to make “not your dad’s Trek,” and by George, that’s what they’ve done.

Tal, based on what I gleaned from the “After Trek” interviews, I think the producers worked their way gently into this ground as Blu was working things out themselves, hence why they didn’t start out with Adira using they/them pronouns (I was very grumpy about a perceived slight towards the character when the crew started using “she/her” when Adira came aboard based on what I knew about Blu del Barrio.

PS – For my money, that didn’t strike me as a snap. I’ve been snapped at plenty of times and that wasn’t a snap. Scolded, maybe, not not a snap.

That’s my 2 quatloos at least.

One might think that if one has to watch supplemental materials to get the story, the writers aren’t doing their jobs? And what the deuce does the actor’s gender identity have to do with the character? A non-binary person can play a gendered person and vice-versa. What the actor is doing in their personal life is immaterial. Kelsey Grammer spent part of Cheers and Frasier in and out of rehab. Is that what they should have done with the character? Of course not. A skilled actor can play someone they are not in real life.

I don’t see why it had to be a big deal that far into the future. Should just be portrayed as an accepted thing, so why the secrecy? Why the ‘coming out’? I don’t think the writers understand that, and actually think they’re handling it correctly by hyper-focusing on it.

My wife made a similar comment this morning. This is supposed to be the 32nd century, haven’t they solved this particular prejudice by then? It’s a far cry from TOS, where you had people from different races working together without regard or even mention of race. That they were working together as equals without tension, that was the statement to viewers. Go and do likewise!

That’s where I’m at it to. On its own, it’s a great scene. Adira wasn’t snapping, they were nervous, stressed out and scared. They were also very tired of being misgendered. It was their heightened emotions that caused their tone of voice and phrasing. As a coming out scene I thought it was great. I just am flummoxed as to why any coming out in Star Trek would be seen as a deal. Ok, you’re a different gender. Cool. That prejudice shouldn’t exist in the 32nd century.

Yep, I caught that too. I mean, how could you not?

It was as conspicuous as, on Picard, when they were about to beam (Spoiler) from the exploding ship and they very forcefully said “him” every time they said “him”. To make sure you knew that he was a male and his ship was blowing up and he would die if we don’t beam him aboard to save his life.

And he was gorgeous.

Good call. The first time we got the male pronoun in that scene it was obvious to all the pilot was going to be female. Again, the writers don’t know what “subtlety” is.

I watched last weeks episode again to see if I missed something last week. Nope, making Tilly an acting first officer just doesn’t cut it for me. Here is a crew that left everyone they love behind in the 23rd century. I think clinging to one’s career prospects would be a comfort to the officers on board. Having an ensign get promoted to XO just doesn’t make sense. (to me anyways.) Again, I like both the actors and their characters. In fact, I’m quite surprised at how much I enjoy Saru as Captain. I suspect the decision to make Tilly XO will make sense as the season wraps up. I worry that her character may meet an untimely demise. Her line last week about being responsible for lives was a bit foreboding for me. Frakes did a good job playing cleanup in this ep. I hopeful for the final few eps . Wishing they pay off for some of the character choices made so far.

Tilly is doing a great job as Number One.

Ah no, she’s acting like a staff officer / advisor, not like an XO whose job it is to deliver a ready ship for the captain to lead.

Worse some of the things were as the TrekMovie review notes, executive assistant – properly Yeoman – stuff. (Yeoman is a senior NCO administrative/staff role who handles the correspondence of the ship, and performance assessments of the crew who are not officers. Trek has never got that right.)

In any event, Line vs Staff — basic difference in any organization of size, military or not.

And there are writers in the room who get that, because we’ve seen them get it right on other projects.

I’m thinking more and more that the showrunners put themselves into some kind of daft contractual box that requires them to keep avoiding rational leadership structure on the show. This wouldn’t be so damaging if the show wasn’t making so much of Burnham’s career ups and downs and the relationships among the officers.

Last edited 6 months ago by TG47

In this episode she felt more like the Captain’s Yeoman than a 2nd in command.

Yeah, I’m waiting for the moment when she actually has to sit in the big chair and take command. I’m not sure how they’re going to handle that, because I haven’t seen enough growth from her character to have her successfully command the ship. She’s still too nervous and apprehensive.

Tilly is a little Jekyll and Hyde when it comes to that. If you recall she jumped right into a command role perfectly well in the MU in that first season. Which again, felt WAY wrong for how she was portrayed up to that point. It seems like the writers have yet to figure Tilly out.

I expect that the ship transmitting the signal will have a very familiar registry number: NCC-1701-X.

I’m thinking it will be NCC-1031 Discovery from another strand of the multiverse.

That is, the Discovery we saw in Calypso.

I had the exact same thought immediately after finishing the episode. My speculation is that in another universe they escape from Control by sending the Disco into this universe, where it sits for a millennia and somehow causes the Burn.

They should just find out it’s Enterpise-C.

The villain was a mess. Boring. Cartoonish.

Last edited 6 months ago by Luke Montgomery

The only highlight about her to me was realizing she is Margot Kidder’s niece.

I thought she looked familiar, but had no idea why. Cool!

Osyraa looks more like witch than an Orion Villain.

I felt the female Orion we saw briefly in the Short Trek “The Escape Artist” was more compelling.

Casting, directing acting? Whatever: it didn’t work.

We just didn’t get the right kind of menace.

And I’ve seen Janet Kidder in other roles where she’s a successful natural actor, so I was surprised it was her.

I’m thinking also of Picard’s Stardust City Rag and wondering if Frakes isn’t a good choice to develop a menacing female villain, or at least to bring out more nuance than is in the script.

“I’m thinking also of Picard’s Stardust City Rag and wondering if Frakes isn’t a good choice to develop a menacing female villain, or at least to bring out more nuance than is in the script.”

Let’s drop the SJ focus for a moment (just because there’s this fixation on that particular hammer in that part of the world doesn’t make everything a nail),and besides, it’s up to the writers (in Picard’s case, your favorite Kirsten Beyer who as a female should be perfect for developing a female villain, going by the current orthodoxy) and the actresses’ task to ‘develop’ their role.

No, after his last few outings I’m wondering whether Frakes is a good choice for directing Trek episodes *at all* anymore, or whether he should keep himself in front of the camera at this point! The word that comes to mind for them is “lackluster”. And the female villain wasn’t even the main problem of the Picard episode (minus the eye extraction) because as over the top villain with eccentric fashion choices, at least she was superficially more interesting than Orion girl who is just blaaaaaand!

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

What did SJ have to do with that comment? She is indeed a weak villain (so far), who happens to be female.

But yeah, I haven’t been a big fan of Frakes’ Discovery episodes.

I’m not crazy about the idea of a recurring villain, either.

Because the issue with Frakes had to be that he is a man and it is insinuated that a man can’t direct a female villain, ie to view the problems of this show purely through the lens of the war of the sexes (never mind the writer at least of the referenced Picard show was a woman, as I pointed out). All -isms go both ways. Yeah i know, not in the mind of the orthodoxy :)

Whoa, how on earth do you get “the problem with Frakes is that he’s a man” from my post VS?

The majority of the episodes are directed by men on both Picard and Discovery so that’s quite a fanciful leap. I think you’re fencing at shadows here.

The fact is that Frakes has been called upon to direct a number of the female villains and it’s not been great.

There have been other male directors that have drawn out more credible performances from female villains (not least Georgiou herself).

I recall that didn’t like the over-the-top cringy vibe of the Romulan Khat Vash sister in the episode Frakes directed with her either.

I know that there’s a contingent that says Jonathan Frakes is the best, but he’s not without flaws and this is one.

Why is it you still need to stress it’s FEMALE villains Frakes & Co have a problem with? I don’t see how else I should interpret this since you quite deliberately focus on this aspect. Let’s be honest, male or female, black or white (or blue), most villains on Discovery haven’t been great and as I outlined this starts with the writers (male and female). I think the problem here runs deeper than specific biological markers…

I called out Annorax and Degra as exemplary villains from the two most recent Classic Trek series and sadly so far no Kurtzman Trek series has approached this maturity and depth in writing antagonists.

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

The reason why I mention it is because other than the Borg Queen, I can’t think of a successful female villain directed by Frakes, while I can recall male villains in 90s Trek and the Orville that were well done.

Different directors have different strengths and challenges.

Maybe its just a coincidence? As the resident Pure Vulcan on last week’s show would say, your sample size is way too small. Correlation does not imply causation. As I pointed out there were all sorts of bad villains on Trek, especially Discovery, directed and written by all sorts of behind the scenes people. Just from the TNG movies, Soran was good (if not as good as he could have been). The Duras sisters were bad. The Borg Queen was good. Ruafo was bad. Shinzon was baaaad. The Kelvin movies universally had bad villains. There’s no doubt there are way more male villains than female ones so no doubt bad female villains stand out more. But again I wouldn’t tie it to any specific director.

How many good female villains has Trek actually produced besides the Borg Queen, Winn, the Changeling and the Duras sisters? I’m gonna give him a lot of slack – TV is not exactly a director’s medium, there are stylistic and tonal norms established in a pilot which jobbing directors rarely get to break free of, even in premium TV series. Directors do what they can, but it is a writers’ fiefdom, and I can’t honestly say the writers of Discovery or Picard have shown a penchant for writing good villains of ANY sex.

Hope her character have better episodes before the finale. I was expecting more as well. She needed to be “more evil” I guess. Wonder if the issue is their new Orion traits. If unconsciously I was just expecting the sexy side of an Orion female. The new Orions are loosing their Mojo? =D

It was a good episode, not my favorite, but enjoyable. Frakes was handling several stories at the same time. Following up nicely with Detmer and Phillipa. Michael and Book. Stamets and Adira. Saru and Tilly. And moving forward the new enemy story arc…honestly, it was a lot for one episode. I am glad production chose Frakes, as he always ready to deliver. I may check all of his Star Trek episodes. For First Contact, the villain was a female, and the majority of fans loved the Borg Queen.

Can’t wait for next week episode, so looking forward to see Kovich again. I personally enjoy Cronenberg, he is the best surprise for the upcoming Section 31 show. Also, really like all the cast members from Toronto, from Canada. They are unique. I can see the Canadian kindness in all off them. This is what I think happens to Kidder. She is maybe to nice to be the main villain. =)

Dude when you are negative on this show, then I know they messed up somewhere lol.

I have to agree, but no more than Space Hitler…and she’s getting her own show. But maybe they are trying to make her less cartoonish now at least. The jury is still out.

Going by the title of the upcoming two parter from next week alone there may be a major MU/Georgiou focus until episode 10… and then she’s off on her own, with Discovery returning to the central Burn mystery for the remainder of the season. And we may all be wrong regarding the setting of the new show if what the uniform sneek peak scene postulates is the reason for Georgiou’s problems!

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

Wait next two episodes is a two parter?? Wow I didn’t know that. So maybe you’re right, this is the big goodbye to her from Discovery and she ends up in the 24th century, Mirror Universe, Gamma quadrant, IDK, but I am definitely intrigued now! Maybe this will give us some real insight into what the S31 show is suppose to be too.

Oh no. Really wanted her to stay with Kovich in the 32nd Century. In my mind I made a blurred line between Section 31 and Time Travel. For some reason thought/wanted her to be on a Temporal Agent instead. Tyler and L’Rell must be getting ready for their comeback. =D

Unless the series will take place completely in the MU.

That would count as “new geography” for a series, but I wouldn’t want a steady diet of it.

That is a great idea. A very good idea. That will open a whole different approach for the new show.

I hear you Jay. I been predicting for a year now the new S31 show just stays in this century. I would prefer that too. BUT if they are thinking something bigger and it’s about multiverse/time travel kind of show then I’m much more for that in general. So if they are going in a much broader direction then I’m all for it.

Kurtzman said no one has really guessed what the show premise is and since basically it’s mostly been going back to the 23rd century or just saying in the 32nd maybe it is really neither and something totally upside down!

As for Tyler and L’Rell I want to see them back too, but I have a feeling we will see them on Strange New Worlds.

In a series that is a continuous season long story technically isn’t the entire show a 13 parter? The idea of episodes as part one and two is out of place.

It’s just used to emphasize that these two episodes will focus more on a particular story line. Think of the two part finale last season when it was directly dealing with the battle of Control and trying to jump through the wormhole. The same for the two part Picard finale. They were all connected to the rest of the season, but were much connected to each other being on the synth planet preparing to engage with the Romulans.

As for DIS, while technically this season has been one big story line, it actually feels pretty standalone in the episode themselves. Every episode this season has really had a seperate story plot, setting, etc. They basically have a new ‘mission’ every week now. Every episode we’re at a different planet practically like you would find the older shows. Out of the three seasons so far, this one is probably the

Outside of the situation of the Burn and of course character development the stories themselves are pretty episodic. I kind of imagine this is how SNW will be done too. And Picard may go more this direction in season 2 and a bit more looser than season 1.

Last edited 6 months ago by Tiger2

I don’t think those examples worked. The previous seasons of STD as well as the one Picard season were a full story told in 13 or 10 episodes. Is ending an episode with a new fact or reveal designed to lead into the next episode make the next one a 2nd part? I would argue no. The entire season is one big multiparter.

STD’s 3rd season does have a few more episodes that feel a little more like standalones. I’ll give you that. But I still have a tough time seeing any short season show that has a continuous storyline as having segments of part 1 and 2. This last episode very well could have been titled “Star Trek Discovery: The Burn. Part VIII.

Discovery episodes are getting worse and worse. I don’t need lessons in pro homosexuality, gender voice or anything else. I am not against these people. I want an entertaining show like old Star Trek. This series is absolute garbage.

Old Star Trek, that had lessons pro Black rights, pro Asian rights, pro women’s rights.

You say this as if it is a collective package. You can be uber progressive in one area and super traditional in another. You can be an enormous supporter of racial and sex equality, but still have a traditional view of gender identity. We are beginning to reach Communist levels of devotion and submission to socio-political ideology, that if you disagree on so much as one area you are denounced and attacked.

Personal. For decades, Star Trek has been supportive for LGBTQ+ rights. This is nothing new.

The idea of male and female are universal constants. There’s no doubt about it.

Tell that to a Q or a changeling or a sentient hologram.

“For decades, Star Trek has been supportive for LGBTQ+ rights. This is nothing new.”

Has it? There had never been gay characters until Discovery, not even a same-sex couple holding hands in the background.

But yeah, I totally disagree with personal.

Well the studio always feared they could loose to much of the audience.
But TNG and DS9 made their position quite clear, even when it had to just be subtle hints.
In fact it makes quite sense they are progressive in this area, since even inter-species relationships or relationships with an android, a hologram or energy entities would be Ok for the crew.

You do realize that the creator of this franchise intended diversity and tolerant humanity to be a central theme of his secular humanist vision of the future, right?

60 years ago there was probably someone saying I don’t need to see blacks and whites kissing on my TV and pro-miscegenation propaganda.

Ok boomer

Please don’t use “Boomer” as an epithet; an awful lot of TOS fans who love modern Trek and who enjoy Trek’s positive messages are Boomers. After all, seeing all people born in the same decade as exactly the same is the sort of thing that Trek teaches us NOT to do. :-)

This guy is a troll Corlea, he’s only here to get under your skin. That’s his function here. WHY Trekmovie doesn’t ban him again I don’t know, but his posts are useless. Just avoid them.

Last edited 6 months ago by Tiger2

Ah, okay. Thanks for the heads-up!

Sorry, misspelled Corylea!

Ok troll

Discovery is better than its ever been and the absolute garbage is the bigot saying get yer progress outta my Star Trek. LLAP.

Last edited 6 months ago by Herbert

“I don’t need lessons in pro homosexuality, gender voice or anything else.” — Apparently, you do.

“I am not against these people.” — Apparently, you are.

“This series is absolute garbage.” — And apparently, you are, too.

Bryant, you may wanna check out history, an awful lot of people – inventors, scientists, nonconformists – you owe your comfortable high tech existence to should be described as “garbage” by your criteria. And yes, that currently includes Steve Jobs and Elon Musk!

In contrast, we owe absolutely nothing to people like the Adira actress who thinks (kinda like Burnham) the world revolves around, and exists to serve them (plural)!

Life lesson Number 1: nobody owes you anything!

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

Not really seeing your point there, but okay.

To insult a show is not the same as insu9 a person. I don’t belive that your right in what you said, but eben if you were, just to quote Goethe again:

Wenn wir die Menschen nur nehmen, wie sie sind, so machen wir sie schlechter; wenn wir sie behandeln, als wären sie, was sie sein sollten, so bringen wir sie dahin, wohin sie zu bringen sind.

Good point, probably. I’ve got no idea what you said, but it looks impressive!

If you treat people as they are, they will become worse. If you treat them as they could be, they will become better.

Are you treating me as I could be, then? :)

I wouldn’t go so far. But I restrain myself to treat you as I think you are.

Trust me you are entirely misjudging me. As are most people here I’m sure :)

Misjudge someone on the internet? Wow… That never happens.

One of the wonderful things about television is that, if you don’t like a show, you don’t have to watch it! There’s plenty of excellent old episodes of TNG, DS9, etc. available on Netflix if that’s more your thing. Discovery isn’t perfect, and constrictive criticism is always welcome, but coming on here to say that the show is “absolute garbage” is just trolling.

Stop the gateskeeping already, Bob! We want NEW Trek just like everybody else. Who gets to decide we have to watch the same old stuff over and over again just because the hacks in charge can’t produce the same level of quality the wizards back then managed to churn out for EIGHTEEN YEARS straight, 26 episodes per year, without all the fancy tech they have today? Keeping that in mind, today’s results are all the more pathetic! But ‘diversity’, yeah (snicker)!

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

There is a baseball analogy that works here, too.

Decades ago starting pitchers were expected to go 7+ innings if not complete games and they were on a 4 man rotation. An ERA in the 3’s was good.

Today pitchers are expected to go 4+ and if you get 5 or more it’s considered a good outing. They are part of a 5 man rotation and an ERA of 4.50 is considered good.

So over the years the amount of work expected has decreased along with the level of what is considered “quality”.

The same seems to have happened to series television.

You are the one that constantly rails against any Star Trek produced after ENT went off the air, but I’m the one that’s gatekeeping?!? Give me a break! You presume that fans of the old stuff don’t like the new. News flash: you’re wrong. I’ve been watching Star Trek since 1988, and I have enjoyed Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks. So have many other fans. Are the new shows perfect? Absolutely not. Do I think TNG and DS9 were better? So far, yes. I do not care for VOY, so I don’t watch it. Why do you choose to subject yourself to something you dislike so much? At bottom, you claim to have the soul of a Vulcan, but clearly, you disposition is much more Romulan.

Star Trek fans have a right to voice their dissatisfaction in the quality of current productions, so that future productions don’t suffer the same fate. It’s as simple as that. Consider it part of the quality control process.

Betting that the ship in the nebula is the abandoned Discovery we saw in Short Trek. Now to explain why.

Exactly what I was thinking! Hopefully we won’t have to wait multiple episodes to find out.

This episode was a boring mess. Why are people just lazing around the Discovery when they have the coordinates of the Burn’s starting point and a solid lead on what is causing it, the weird music. “Oh, we can’t really do anything until the algorithm decodes the music” – really?

They have the warlord who is threatening half the galaxy captured and they just let her warp away. Really?

I have a bad feeling that a promising set-up and reinvention of Discovery is going to collapse into a really lame second half of the season and climax like Season 2 did with the galactic Terminator rip-off.

I hope that I am wrong.

They can’t go because Burnham can’t go yet. Nobody can do anything on this show without her.

Worse, anything that anyone else does must be in service of Burnham’s story.

None of the other characters have their own existence.

Burnham gets almost all the hero A-plots – with the exception of maybe one for the seasonal guest star under contract.

All B and C plots ultimately serve Burnham’s story, or she gets to be the hero of their resolution.

This is pretty much unprecedented in the franchise, with the possible exception of Kirk.

Last edited 6 months ago by TG47

It’s the Burhamverse. She is literally the cosmic glue that holds this entire series together. Are the other characters even real or just puppets she created to service her ego and accompany her on the adventures that couldn’t happen or ever be resolved without her? At least with Kirk, the Enterprise actually happened upon outside events or occurrences to get involved in. And for all the shit he gets, Kirk very regularly and reliably depended on his crew to problem solve. Burnham’s got no time for that stuff.

Yeah that really bothers me too. It’s just TOO MUCH focus on Burnham. Even when it’s not about her like this episode, she is still front and center of it. Of course she’s the star, you expect her to be involved obviously but you can still let other characters shine once in awhile for a particular episode. That’s why the spin off worked so much better in this regard. Picard was the star but he wasn’t front and center in every freakin episode. There were plenty when the other characters got direct focus for an entire episode. DS9 probably did that the best with its characters. But with Discovery, the story doesn’t move at all unless Burnham is part of it.

And she’s not the most likeable character for fans so that makes it even worse.

That situation was just odd. They were firing photon torpedoes. That’s like using catapults in their time. The Enterprise E was using quantum torpedoes. So it seems reasonable that weapon tech should be moving forward. The return argument could be that photon torps could be a generic term by then and their photons are souped up with 900 years of new weapons tech. I guess but still…. Books ship is awfully powerful. Just being told weak points it was able to nearly blow the thing up. And in all that damage they never disabled the warp drive?

I’m sure some will be able to do some mental gymnastics and explain this away but at least on the surface it is just tough to swallow.

There’s gotta be another shoe to drop about the 32nd century Federation.

My guess: The Emerald Chain is bad but there’s gotta be something about the Federation we haven’t learned yet. Osyraa’s talk about the Federation needing to take responsibility for its wrongs makes me think there’s something more to it.

This entire season has me wondering if the inspiration for this season was Bryan Fuller’s proposal for taking over “Star Trek” after “Enterprise” was canceled. His pitch was for a jump ahead to around where we are now with a decaying Federation that was rotting from apathy. Paramount decided not to go with it and instead ended up eventually signing on with JJ Abrams.

Didn’t the Vulcans already reference this in the last episode? If there was a dilithium shortage even before the Burn then the Federation probably became more demanding of member worlds. There may have even been situations where the Federation seized resources if they weren’t forthcoming.

Phaser barrage if no dilithium anyone?

I think Fuller’s track record of creative fallouts, cost overruns and apparent inability to stick with any show besides Hannibal for more than 2 seasons says more about why CBS parted ways with him. One of those tricky geniuses it’s hard to work with, I think.

I loved seeing Tilly act like a good first officer, going over plans with the captain, demanding that Ryn respect the captain, and coming up with an idea to save the day when they were stuck. I’m guessing that “acting” will be taken off of her title pretty soon.

I liked seeing the softer side of Stanmets as he reacts to Adira, whose brilliant-but-awkward precocity seems to remind him of himself. He’s avuncular with her, and that’s so sweet to see.

Loved seeing Detmer face her fears and totally kick butt!

My husband has a crush on Book. Since my husband considers himself a straight man, this is noteworthy. :-) Every time we see David Ajala, my husband can’t stop talking about how charismatic Book is. It’s cute, and it’s a sign of how very good Ajala is in the role, that he can make my husband gush about him. :-)

I think this is the first episode where it felt as if Michael was an important character, as opposed to The Person Everything Revolves Around. It felt better to me, to have her be very important but not the focal point of every thing that every character did.

I didn’t like Saru’s trying to find his catchphrase. It’s one thing for the captain of an animated comedy to do so, but it seemed frivolous and out of character for Saru.

Given what Ryn said about how Andorian children are frightened into obedience with tales of the Federation, I’m really afraid we’re going to find out that the Feds are actually villains in this century. I certainly hope NOT! *bites fingernails*

Corylea I appreciate your comment. Very interesting insight to the episode.

Thank you, Faze Ninja!

Eh, this one was OK. Nothing great. In fact felt a bit like episode 6 in a way where you see where it’s all going. I do like the most episodic stories they been doing this season but I do notice when they aren’t focused directly on the Burn or Starfleet they are a bit dull.

But it definitely had some decent moments, just nothing super memorable. Saru trying to come up with his catchphrase is hysterical. He’s still a long way before he gets to iconic Picard phrases of ‘engage’ and ‘Make it so’. He should just steal those. ;) And I still think Tilly being first officer is utterly bonkers but her and Saru seem to work well together.

Detmer was cool flying Booker’s ship and it was nice to see her overcome her PTSD. I’m kind of glad they didn’t make it this huge thing. Not every time something is off with a character, it has to be some crazy sci fi twist….

But speaking of crazy sci fi twist, what’s up with Georgiou???? Now that’s turning into something really really interesting. And if people saw the Ready Room sneak peek for next week, it looks like it’s going to get crazy! Looking forward to it now.

Last thing, the Emerald Chain and Osyraa, not really doing it for me and maybe why I wasn’t so much into this one or episode 6. She’s OK, but feel like a villain you have in a single episode on VOY or something, not an entire season. Not every major villain has to be the Borg, Klingons or Cardassians, but I’m hoping she is just a front for something bigger and more interesting. I still assume whoever is responsible for the Burn is who will turn out to be the real bad guy.

Overall, OK, but still decent. I’m just always happy when we get more layers filled in about this century more than anything. I have a feeling what or whoever caused the Burn may not even be fleshed out until season 4 considering we’re already 2/3rd through the season and it still feels like we are scratching the surface so far.

Last edited 6 months ago by Tiger2

Where are the Klingons at? It sounds like a boring episode.

Last edited 6 months ago by Faze Ninja

There has so far been zero mention of the Klingons this season, unless I missed an off-hand remark by somebody.

Yeah no mention of the Klingons yet. I imagine though if they don’t pop up this season, we’ll see them next. My guess is they don’t want to show where all the major species are up to in this century yet. Be funny if it was them who caused the Burn though. ;)

Yeah a little boring, but definitely had some decent moments, just not enough IMO.

Last edited 6 months ago by Tiger2

Can’t wait to see the 32nd Century Klingon Makeup. =D

Yeah, I agree that it was an “okay” episode.
I did like all the side stories. And despite limited advancement of the central story, I think Frakes did a good job tying all the side stories together.
Was hoping to see what the Doc said to Georgiou. Also liked Stammets and Adira playing music. As for the pronoun they – no real issue. Actually considering Adira/Sol are two separate beings plus all the memories of previous hosts, technically I guess that makes more sense.
Overall, it was okay and since the episode left me wanting more about the burn and Georgiou, I guess that is a good thing.
Ok time to check out the trailer for next week.

Last edited 6 months ago by DeanH

Yeah I thought Frakes did fine. It was just the story itself that didn’t pull me in as much. As the review said, a lot of hints to the bigger picture but the story itself just felt too by the numbers. I just didn’t care much about it outside of learning more about the Burn (which they are obviously going to tease little by little until the finale probably). The stuff with Georgiou was really good though. I never thought her scenes would be the most interesting on this show but they are finally building some mystery into her and it looks pretty big. And I did like the stuff with Adira and Staments too. It did feel a lot like TNG or VOY to see crew members just playing music again. No issues with the pronouns either. I get a bit confused from time to time but that should go away soon.

It’s funny though, every other week I’m either really excited or just kind of ho hum. At least thats how I felt about episodes 2, 6 and 8 and they all been just OK to me. But all the odd number episodes I literally can’t wait to see what’s next. Next week looks really interesting and probably the first episode of the season we didn’t get any hints to beforehand.

Last edited 6 months ago by Tiger2

You mentioned that the episode was a little “by the numbers”. That is how I have felt EVERY episode has gone this season. There has been nothing fascinating whatsoever and pretty much everything in every episode has been telegraphed to the viewers in advance.

Are they setting us up for what they think is some sort of “twist”?

“As for the pronoun they – no real issue. Actually considering Adira/Sol are two separate beings plus all the memories of previous hosts, technically I guess that makes more sense.”

Ist es ein lebendig Wesen,
Das sich in sich selbst getrennt?
Sind es zwei, die sich erlesen,
Dass man sie als eines kennt?

A German will take every chance to quote Goehte.

“A German will take every chance to quote Goehte.”

Why do you misspell his name then? :D

Because he didn’t care for such things, hespelled it Göte himself fom time to time.

… and because I’ m a lousy speller.

I gotcha :)

Good point about the Trill situation. I think it would work out better if Adria had just said she feels like multiple people due to the Trill and it would help her cope better if she was referred to as “they”. Would have been a lot more Star Trek-y. But it wasn’t handled that way. Too bad.

I like that we’re getting a slow build up and reveal of whatever is happening to Georgiou.

It reminds me of some of the slow drip reveal of Odo’s nature as a Founder in DS9, but in this case Georgiou is terrified and doing her best at denial.

I hope Georgiou and Osyra spend a scene together at some point. That would be a lot of fun.

The actress who plays Osyraa is SO much worse than Michelle Yeoh that I fear it would be a tremendously unequal contest. :-)

It might be different with another director.

Janet Kidder wasn’t at her best. She couldn’t seem to find the right menace between her classic theatre and very natural film skills.

Michelle Yeoh’s performance as Georgiou is varying a lot. Maja Vrvilo brought out her best so far in 305 in the interview with Kovich.

That’s interesting, because Frakes directed “Sanctuary,” and he’s usually known as an actor’s director, one who gets the best performances out of actors.

Saru and Tilly together, felt some Lower Decks vibe in there.

Saru should try “Its warp time!”

Then Space Hitler would reply: “It’s dinner time! ”

;)

Too much time spent on new characters
would prefer show focused on those we spent last seasons with
i mean really. Who cares about books brother?.

Thank Surak I caught an early review and managed to skip this episode and save me an hour of self-inflicted pain (I did watch some key scenes on YT though that tell me everything I need to know). As I expected from the preview this seems like the worst of Discovery in a messy, toxic stew: haphazard plotting a la middle season 2, generic action and splooooosions, a laughably comic book like villain that makes Voyager’s Annorax and Enterprise’s Degra cry, and to top it off, partisan propaganda that once again nixes any chance of international appeal for the show (or even just less divisiveness in your own country). They just cant help themselves but pour oil into the fire at every occasion!

I also watched the sneak peek for NEXT week’s episode, which happens to be THAT uniform scene I won’t spoil here, and those thirty seconds manage to be more intruiging than this entire episode!

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

“I also watched the sneak peek for NEXT week’s episode, which happens to be THAT uniform scene I won’t spoil here, and those thirty seconds manage to be more intruiging than this entire episode!”

LOL, so true! That scene shown in The Ready Room was all kind of goodies I really really want to hear more about.

I was about to post more about it – then saw TM closed another comment for exactly that reason. So I guess we need to wait until Monday to discuss those goodies!

I know! LET’S GET TO THE GOODIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tiger, I wished your level of excitement would be rewarded by this show for once! :)

What exactly is the point of coming on here and hate posting about Discovery every single week a new episode comes out? It would be one thing if your criticism was constructive, but it isn’t. It’s just the same repetitive slop all the time. Discovery has its flaws, to be sure, and those are worthy of discussion. But what purpose does it serve to attack the show as a “messy, toxic stew” week after week after week? Enough already.

Wrong, Bob, wrong! Last week I was one of the few posters positive about that episode! But people don’t read those posts. That’s not my problem though ;)

You even praised the costumes last week VS!

(See some of us noticed ;) )

Does anyone know the name of the piece of music that Adira and Stamets played on cello and piano, respectively, in “The Sanctuary” episode? They only played a few notes. Is it this same haunting tune that is popping up all over? Is there a name for it yet on the show (or IRL)? I love cello and would like to d/l it if anyone can point me to it. Thank you!

Last edited 6 months ago by Violet

I skipped this episode because it sounds so boring and overstuffed. The plot feels so busy and all over the place. It could have been better.

The villain is a mustache twirling nutjob with green skin.

Last edited 6 months ago by Faze Ninja

You say above that you need to see it, though. Do you just change your mind about things every five minutes, or what?

The endless self-contradiction and inconsistency you and others perceive is simply the result you get with an algorithm composing based upon existing content, with some word replacements (for example, my comment that I skipped the episode) but without own memory of previous posts. Or as Georgiou said it earlier this season: if you use fancy words, that just means you own a thesaurus! ;)

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

That does seem like it might be true.

And your reason to pick on him for that is what? I enjoy reading his posts and it seems so do others.

In your mind all communications got to have a social motive no?

This is purely a logical deduction based upon dozens of posts (and others have noticed too). Humans do not talk this way, certainly not native speakers from Minnesota :)

That is in no way a judgment of the poster, either way, though!

And also take note I did not imply any sort of consequence regarding this as several posters have regarding me. And I can assure you I’m not a machine, even though not a human either ;)

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

You got me here. I assumed he could be a group nick, or I should use the pronoun they in that case. But AI that is an interesting thought. I did not know we are that far already.

I have thought that it might be siblings, but a group alias on a shared email sounds about right.

It might also explain the spamming problem under the previous alias.

Everyone is complaining about the lady who plays Osyraa, but I didn’t think she was anywhere near as bad as the guy playing Book’s brother.

Not much of an episode overall, but I’ve seen worse. And I’m surprised to find myself feeling that Tilly had a few good moments showing some backbone — maybe she’ll be XO material yet.

LOL. So true. Book’s brother, we may not see him again.

I thought the guy she fed to the Trance Worm was the weakest actor of the bunch.

Even if she ultimately could be XO material, that doesn’t justify her fast tracking past every other qualified person on the ship.

Oh, no, it absolutely doesn’t. That plot development is one of the worst in Trek’s history. But if they at least try to make Tilly seem competent once she’s in the job, I guess that’s better than having a awkward weirdo as first officer.

I thought Tilly was only a temp XO. Maybe Saru wanted to give her some officer experience since her training got cut short.

I’d like that as a consequence of Saru’s violation of direct orders Vance overrides his XO choice and put in Willa as 32nd century watchdog. It would make sense on so many fronts, and be dramatically fascinating for the viewers. The possibilities!

That absolutely would have been the better way to go. And his former XO going rogue was the perfect opportunity to do it. And it just makes so much sense on EVERY level. This group could use a liaison to the 32nd century. And honestly, they need to be in the appropriate Star Fleet attire of the day. To continue to wear their quaint outfits is silly.

Well let’s say, they still have 5 episodes to do the sensible!

But judging from precedent, when have they ever done the sensible thing in the last 5 episodes of the season, rather than jumping the shark?

I was waiting for Detmer to exclaim, “Now That’s Pod Racing!” after straffing the enemy ship.

The space battle did seem like it came out of a Star Wars movie. While it was taking place, Book, Michael and the rest were on the planet successfully dodging the photon torpedoes by just running around. Those action sequences seemed cartoonish and melodramatic.

Book’s ship seems to be amazingly powerful. One tiny ship inflicted a ton of damage to the main cruiser from the velvet string or whatever the hell they call themselves. How many ships does that coalition have that it seems to be able to keep a weakened Star Fleet at bay? They seemed like they had quite a few themselves. Take that force, plus Book’s amazingly powerful ship and it feels like complete victory in a matter of moments.

This is definitely Discovery’s best season, although I fell in love with the series during Season 2. Season 1 was good, but wasn’t my favorite. Already watched the preview of next week’s episode, and I’m excited that Jonathan Frakes is directing one more episode this season. I wish that other Star Trek actors would direct Discovery as well.

As I have been watching the Star Trek franchise for as long as I remember (my dad and I would the TNG series when it originally aired when I was a kid), this is my new series order of favorites:

  1. Star Trek The Next Generation
  2. Star Trek Deep Space Nine
  3. Star Trek The Original Series
  4. Star Trek Discovery
  5. Star Trek Voyager
  6. Star Trek Picard
  7. Star Trek Enterprise
  8. Star Trek Lower Decks
  9. Star Trek The Animated Series

For the fun of it, my list:

Star Trek The Original Series
Star Trek Deep Space Nine
Star Trek The Animated Series
Star Trek Lower Decks
Star Trek The Next Generation
Star Trek Enterprise
Star Trek Voyager
Star Trek Discovery
Star Trek Picard

My favourites have really evolved over time, and rewatching with our kids (now teens) has revised it again.

I think TNG is at the top, but Voyager is running close behind. It’s so much better when it’s given a chance to be viewed on its own, without close comparison to other 90s series. There are a number of classic stories that it redid better than the original TNG or TOS versions, but without the distance, it’s hard to appreciate. On the other hand, the ensemble was always rougher on Voyager, so TNG wins out.

I’m not sure where DS9 sits since the kids haven’t yet got to the age to appreciate it. Definitely y in the top 3. Best ensemble, but constrained to be a different show, less focused on exploration, by the station setting.

The Animated Series has always been one of my favourites, and I think I would rank it above TOS (horrid Filmation animation notwithstanding). TAS really gave us a 1701 crew that was an ensemble, rather than just Kirk the hero with Spock and McCoy supporting and others behind. Uhura even got to command the ship and be the A-plot hero saving the four male leads.

I know for sure Enterprise is at the bottom of my list. I see more to like in occasional episodes now, but “Archer Syndrome” is baked in and really sabotages the entire series for me.

That’s why I give the Archer Syndrome treatment such a tough critique when they are doing it with Burnham: if you don’t buy into Archer or Burnham as the central hero of AN ENTIRE FOUNDATIONAL ERA, there’s not much to hold your interest in rewatching the series. This is the one major point where I have to give Kurtzman a fail on strategy when generally, he’s a brilliant strategist.

In fact, it’s worse with Burnham in Discovery because (as someone recently pointed out on another board) not only does Burnham get every A-plot, everything that happens to every other character (B and C plots) ultimately serves Burnham’s story.

The machinery is showing at this point such that Detmer’s great piloting moment, overcoming her PTSD and regaining her love of flying, is entirely in the service of bringing Burnham’s love interest into the Federation.

I also think this is why people are commenting that the planet of the week plots are somehow thin, by the numbers, with something lacking. These plots, from New Eden through to Sanctuary, are all in the service of Burnham’s story. The writers know what they need to achieve for Burnham in terms of how the season was broken, but after that they don’t seem to be excited as writers about creating a new and different place and giving us as viewers enough to make it real.

That’s absolutely unprecedented as far as I could tell.

Trip and T’Pol at least got their own arcs in Enterprise, and while Archer was in the background, it wasn’t to serve his story. Andor felt like a real place, as did many if Enterprise’s planets of the week.

Picard seems to be set up to solely centre on him, but given its a reprise of a major character and intended to be just a few short seasons, it is comprehensible (even if they’ve built an ensemble we aren’t likely to get enough of.)

Discovery season 3 is definitely the best yet, but it may be because of that that we are seeing the very harsh constraints on the show.

“These plots, from New Eden through to Sanctuary, are all in the service of Burnham’s story”

You got to the crux, and the important point is, for the show’s creators, from day one, this is not a bug but THE feature.

I compared it to the heroine protagonists’ deeply personal and emotional journeys in 2010’s YA adult scifi, with all of the world’s happenings revolving around them and the audience expected to experience it entirely through her eyes.

You call it New Adult, but whatever the semantics, the problem is the Single Point of Failure. If you dont like or cant connect with this single focal point of the universe, you can’t enjoy the show.

Unfortunately, for all the fixes Kurrzman made in 3 seasons, this is one point they are completely unwilling to compromise on (if anything season 3 doubled down on it) even though unlike Klingon re-redesigns, in-universe a shift of focus away from Burnham onto the ensemble would be much less jarring or hard to explain, especially now that she’s 900 years removed from being thr all-important “daughter of Sarek, sister of Spock, Starfleet’s first mutineer, savior of all biological life”.

But as we have seen recently, they found ways to even write the 32nd century in such ways as they can only pray at the altar of St. Michael for her qualities as The One ;)

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

Since we are doing this…

TOS
DS9
ENT
TAS
VOY
TNG
STP
LDX
STD

Those bottom two are pretty interchangeable to be honest. But STD has the worst moment ever in all of Trek so, it gets the bottom rung.

ST:DS9
ST:TNG
ST:TOS
ST:Picard
ST:ENT
ST:VOY
ST:DSC

Haven’t seen TAS or Animated Series

I love all previous shows. Watching them for the first time at college, they were all great. Watching them again on VHS was a hobby. But I have to admit, due to the benefits of streaming, I have rediscovered some treasures and DS9 goes to the top of the list. I have watched this show so many times, but now I feel this is different, my age, 50? Watching DS9 now during the Pandemic, I am just in total admiration for this creative team. The writers were so clever, enjoyed before and enjoy now very much the character development, connections, relationships, stories, ideas, season improvement and upgrades, the storytelling of the main story and substories, how all connects is just outstanding. The best Trek ever. What an amazing show.

Ira Steven Behr, this guy is a Genius. His DS9 Team were all visionaries. You can see wisdom in each of their episodes, specially with topics related to ethics, moral, religion, the war in general, soldiers, family, secret missions, diplomatic solutions. This show has it all. Not to mention, an African American shinning and succeeding as a Single Father, an excellent Captain, Leader, Emmissary for a whole race. This show was just brilliant.

I am dreaming this team can reunite, merging the original creative with the new Kurtzman Team. Can you imagine this top quality show with the new budget, special effects and visuals!? Will be hard to reproduce the same magic they had in the late 90’s, but I bet could be a great success if they bring the same team onboard. I am always begging for a Short Trek, Mini Series, Season 8, or a movie, for the return of Sisko.

My very first favorite is STNG. Still in top of my list. But enjoyed Voyager and Enterprise very much.

With the new, it is hard to decide which is my favorite. I like them all. Can’t rate the new shows until I see the show finale.

Last edited 6 months ago by Jay

Oh man, geek Star Trek battle time!!!

For me at this moment:

-Deep Space Nine
-The Next Generation
-Voyager
-The Original Series
-Lower Decks
-Enterprise
-Discovery
-Picard

Still haven’t gotten around to watching TAS yet even though I said I would here but one day soon!

Actually surprised you placed Picard so low. Interesting.

I’m waiting to hear back from on TAS Tiger2!

Saru shpuld try:

Just do it…

I’m finding this tiresome.

For the writers on LDs to make a joke of it is one thing, but if the showrunners of the various series have painted themselves into a corner that every new captain needs their own signature command phrase, that shouldn’t be the audience’s to bear.

Saru says “Proceed” often enough, he should stick to that even if it’s stuffy.

Good call TG47. I like “Proceed” as well.

I don’t think Kirk even had a “phrase”. If he did I’m not remembering it.

I thought it was “Mr.Sulu, Warp5” ;-)

“With all their fancy medical tech, why haven’t they replaced Ryn’s antennae?

I asked roughly the same question about Detmer’s cybernetic implants last week.

Oh pleeease cancle that show!

Television technology has made incredible progress in the last half-century. They are now equipped with easy to use Remote Controls which allow you to change the channel and watch something else if you don’t like.

Amazing, but true.

Expecting me to like or care what happens to a character like MU Georgiou – an empress responsible for wiping out millions, probably billions of people in her heyday – pretty much highlights how clueless the people in charge of this show are. If the idea was to give her a path to redemption – like any basic 101 character arc I would assume at least one person in this writers room has heard about – it might help to actually put her on one. That she’s utterly unrepentant for her previous life and behaviour and the only thing the writers can think to do is to have that change manipulated by outside forces rather than her learning anything on her own says it all.

Furthermore: Burnham’s respect and concern for her – laughable, undeserved and unfounded, essentially a hollow projection of her love and respect for her former captain – highlights what an absolute disaster of a character she – and by default, this entire show – is.

Last edited 6 months ago by blackmocco

Complete agreement. I’m stunned anyone even cares one tiny bit about Georgeau. She was an evil dictator who carried out mass murder on a seemingly regular basis. Which, granted, is normal for where she came from. But not for us. And on top of that she’s being obnoxious at every turn. And why Burnham feels ANYTHING for this waste of a person is beyond any reasonable mind. Just because she LOOKS like someone she cared about doesn’t mean she IS. And Burnham should be intelligent enough to know this.

The idea that MU Georgeau can be morphed into PU Georgeau is laughable and one of the dumbest things ever all all of Trek. Funny how this show is encouraging more lines like that.

I’ll say it again: there’s a great and interesting Star Trek show to be made about a bridge crewmember whose actions and weaknesses regularly endanger the ship and crew. We almost had it with Lorca in S1 before the show wimped out (and would have given Burnham something to rail against and give us, as an audience, an anchor point to genuinely root for her) but this is so not that show and this is clearly not a writers room capable of taking that premise and doing something solid with it.

As for Burnham, I doubt the writers have ever even considered what we’re discussing. In their narrative as presented to us, you’re 100% right: she looks like the Georgiou she admired once so therefore she must still admire her in the same way. This is Discovery’s science officer, lest anyone needs reminding!

Last edited 6 months ago by blackmocco

The worst thing: She is so unbelievable always putting her evil in everyone’s nose.
How could she ever get empress like this?
Guess what: Even Hitler propably wasn’t on evil mode all the time and didn’t hold evil speeches in his bed room

Why did Discovery spend so much money showing us Book’s planet, the salvage planet, and the pointless boring space battles in these episodes but didn’t spend any money to take us down to Earth or Vulcan, instead doing a bottle show for Unification III?

These people have no clue.

And making such a big goofy deal of Saru choosing a catch phrase is just making fun of Star Trek. All they know is a few pop culture Trek references and it makes the show embarrassing to watch.

I didn’t really need to see Ni’Var though. The script and courtroom drama was engaging enough I was okay with it being a cheaper episode. Whereas they clearly thought they would need to try to spend their way out of this and the Trill episodes being kinda weak. Did we really need all the bad green screen cgi surrounding Burnham and Adria in episode 3? Nah, it just wasn’t a compelling script.

More Ni’Var and more Earth is coming next. Season 4 I hope. I am actually enjoying the visual aspect, the look and feel of the new planets. Compared to old Trek shows, visually, Discovery is actually pretty amazing.

It’s very lush. Only thing I don’t like is the visual effects. Dirty, harsh and cluttered, I miss the clean majesty of 1979-2005.

What more is there to say? Really feels like more of the same. Although this time, and I can’t believe I’m even needing to say this… At least no tears flowed out of anyone. But yeah. This is what the show is. Those who are liking it will continue to like it and those who do not will continue to not. The only thing I will say here is that once again, the Georgeau stuff was the worst part of it. I honestly do not care what is going on with her except that when she said she was dying I perked up with a bit of excitement but then immediately realized they had plans for her and I dropped back down to disinterest.

I’m in the camp that the show is less than mediocre but Georgeau has quickly become the worst part of it.

By the name, the upcoming “Terra Firma” two-parter sounds like it will be Georgiou’s send off.

I’d have sent her off out the nearest airlock two seasons ago.

I’m not prepared to make any assumptions based on episode titles.

Yeah, let’s hope so!

And we know ORIGINALLY the Section 31 show was suppose to start filming after Discovery season 3 was done, so I’m guessing this was to meant to send her off this season and we see her show up on S31 six months later or something. Didn’t quite work out, but I have a feeling she will be off of Discovery soon too. The sooner, the better!

If it is so, I wouldn’t be surprised that the S31 show will be officially anounced after she disappears in Discovery. Or that episode even ends with some kind of cliffhanger for her, where S31 continues. Or at least S31 will be anounced shortly afters season finale in a few weeks.

It’s a shame to say as a fan for nearly 50 years, but after reading the reviews and comments so far this season, I’m so glad I decided to take a pass on watching S3. S1 and 2 were so bad they literally put a bad taste in my mouth for the entire franchise for a while. From reading what’s said here, apparently not much has changed. PIC was ok, certainly didn’t blow me away, and now he’s a synth (Ugh). The cast and premise of SNW is interesting, but I’m not thrilled at the prospect of another prequel fouling up the timeline and honestly have no faith it’s going to be any better than what’s being produced now, given these showrunners. Thoroughly saddened and discouraged.

Danpaine, this season is definitely better and more watchable.

I’m generally satisfiedish after each episode.

The problem is that we also seem to be seeing all the more clearly the constraints that keep it from being great.

I’m watching only out of respect for the name Star Trek, at this point. I’ve said it before, it’s like being a fan of a ball club that was once good to really good. And then fell apart. I’m still going to root for the team and watch the games, but I understand why other fans would bail out.

I’m going to watch SNW, of course. But since the same behind the scenes people are behind it I actually have little hope it will be good. I still think Kurtzman had the right idea when he came up with the different genres of Trek. But the fact that he is allowing many of the same people to be involved in multiple shows is evidence to me that he is not capable running the entire thing himself. And I do not know how much say he has in the rest of the staff but if it was mostly up to him then he has shown a knack for hiring the wrong people for the wrong jobs.

I’m going to sign up for CBSAA to binge-watch The Stand (based on the Stephen King Novel) after it’s 9 episode run next year, so during that month I’ll probably give this a try, and Lower Decks, which seems like something a number of regulars here generally enjoyed. I agree with you, ML. I think Kurtzman has the right intent, but the results are overall very poor. Such a bummer, with all the excellent programming/writing/sfx on other channels out now. In the right hands, this franchise could really soar.

I’m not going to keep CBSAA after S3 is over. It gets cut. I am interested in The Stand. But not enough to keep paying for the service. Trek is the only thing I will pay for. I’ll see it when I re-up for whatever show is next on CBS.

Excellent sports reference, too. The Philadelphia Eagles totally suck this year, but I’m still watching the games out of allegiance to the brand. Only nice thing with that is I’m not paying monthly to do it.

I don’t know that anything here is as utterly horrible as the second half of season 2 but that would have been an almost impossible achievement, thankfully. The problem with season 3 is the show has to build on what came before, so it’s tainted before it even begins. The other problem is, of course, the same people are in charge. Put those two elements together and it’s just a hot, disappointing, incoherent and forgettable mess.

I would say that STD took it’s unfortunate dive into crappiness LONG before S2 ever started. It happened once S1 went to the MU. Up to that point it was still salvageable. But pretty much from episode 1 of S2 on it was clear the damage seemed irreversible. There MIGHT still be something to salvage. But it would require essentially a complete reboot of the entire show including a change of the entire staff that runs it. Keeping what little that is working and jettison the rest. Sending the same terrible characters 900 years into the future with the same producers writers and show runners did precious little. Yes, there have been a few things they got right. But overall the same people were involved and it shows.

Well, trust me- I’m not defending S1. 😂 I agree, once the MU plot hijacked the Klingon war, everything went to Hell in terms of a narrative. But that’s always the problem with this show- it starts about one thing and then rockets off in another halfway through.

Lemme guess: Culber and Stamets are going to adopt Adira and in the very near future there will be an Adira/Stamets/Culber-centered spin-off show called “Star Trek: My Two Dads” – a hilarious family comedy show…

…well, honestly, if that’s what it takes to finally get a Star Trek show where no one gets killed horrifically every week, I’d go with it!

At least they won’t declare her as another lost sibling of Spock.

Don’t give them ideas.

As long as it’s not “Star Trek Burnham: my 4 mums”…. oh, wait…

I guess, The unknown starfleet ship, sending out the still to be encrypted signal somehow will be our Discovery.

My guess, based on others’ observations and what’s been setup so far, is that since Kovich mentioned the mirror universe has been moving farther away since after Georgiou left, it’s causing her to glitch out and so they’ll have to send her back to the past. Zora will become a thing at the last minute and swear she’ll protect the ship and the sphere data and either Zora or Georgiou will spore jump the ship into the past (if Discovery can end up 9 months in the future via the spore drive then why not?). The crew will stay in the 32nd century so as to not break any temporal laws, Georgiou will be in the past so she can be glitch-free and start the S31 series, and Zora will chill in that nebula for almost 1000 years so the crew can re-board Discovery in the 32nd century. And if they don’t spore jump then it’ll be some other time-travel method that they’ll come up with, like maybe Momma Burnham will use her suit or make a new one. Not sure how any of this relates to the burn though because it’s a dumb idea, but I bet Discovery will be the red-herring and not the actual cause.

Last edited 6 months ago by Ashley

You’re somewhat thinking along the lines I had been Ashley, but I’m finding it unlikely that Georgiou will stay in the 23rd century Prime Universe unless it’s –as the EPs have already said — geographically distant enough to avoid significant canon constraints.

I don’t think a new suit will be needed though. I suspect that Kovich will know where any remaining off-the-books black ops temporal tech remains.

I do agree that while Discovery is in the nebula, it’s not the cause of the burn.

Also, I’m still wondering if we might end up with two Discoverys — but agree it’s unlikely.

Why send her back at all? If being out of the MU is the issue then she NEEDS to go back to the MU. Send her back there!

Besides… No reason why their Section31 show can’t be set in the 32’nd century helping the rebuilt Federation gain strength again.

Well unless they ‘cure’ her, then her deterioration is the reason why they need to send her back, either to the past or the mirror universe. However, they might not be able to get to the mirror universe anymore since it’s drifted too far away (or whatever the reason the crossings ceased). Plus, if Discovery needs to go back in time for Calypso to work out, then it’d make sense (in terms of continuity anyway) to do this. Aaand I’m pretty sure the S31 series will be set in the 23rd century so they can utilize existing assets and characters, crossover with SNW when they want to, and probably playfully undermine the actions of established characters..

Sending her back in time won’t stop the deterioration caused by being out of her universe for so very long. If that truly is what is killing her. But if they need to send her back so she can make an easier crossover back to her MU then I can see it.

Regarding when the S31 show is set… I hope and pray it isn’t the 23rd century. Much rather it be in Picard’s time or forward.

This episode was better than last weeks by a fair bit. But still the show is wasting time with tangential issues and NOT following Star Fleet directives. My gawd, at this point, the head of Starfleet should replace everyone on Discovery.

The show meanders and is like a sloppy molasses dripping ever so slowly into a gaping maw of boredom.

Last edited 6 months ago by helenopeel

The style of that season has become the same as PIC. A 2 part episode stretched to 10-13 episodes and so many meaningless subplots to fill the time which don’t serve the main plot. They only move forward 2 minutes. This episode was even slower. I liked season 1 and 2 waaaay better. Also Enterprise did it waaaaay better in season 3 by having a main plot which moved forward in almost every episode and only a few bottle episodes to have a break. Here i am still waiting for the season 3 to start and move on. My prediction: in the final episode they will resolve the cause of the burn. In season 4 they will travel back in time to undo the burn and by doing so they will cause the burn. That is why season 4 is already planned. Of course the main plot could be told in 2 episodes but will be stretched to 13 episodes.
Looking forward to the Orville season 3 and to Strange New Worlds. The Pike episodes were the best in Discovery and felt most like classic Trek.
Of course I will continue watching DSC to see how the plot will be solved, but unlike season 1 and 2 (and the Orville) I don’t feel the urge to rewatch them.

Last edited 6 months ago by DaveCGN

Lapti nek, rat a ran wim joct co jappi qaff! Lapti nek, kiv ba ha top wep jex pi va bep! Wow.

Worse-case theory: The ship transmitting the distress call is….the La Sirena. Complete with crew.

Gosh I really hope not :D

Stop giving them ideas! 😱 (you made my day! 😂)
Name of that episode: “worst of both worlds”.

Last edited 6 months ago by DaveCGN

WORST OF BOTH WORLDS OMG!

Somebody inform Seven!
Free eye extractions for everyone!

Last edited 6 months ago by Vulcan Soul

So they isolated the electromagnetic connection between the sea locusts and amplified it, same as they did on Kaminar. Then all the empaths have to do is tell them where to go. But it’s the sea locusts’ choice, Michael. “I know,” says Michael. Star Trek.

Last edited 6 months ago by Vice Admiral Nakamura

There seems to be some great importance that Saru has his very own cool thing to say when giving an order. In the original pilot for Star Trek, “The Cage”, Pike used “Engage” which was later adopted by Captain Picard. I really can’t remember Kirk, Sisko, or Janeway ever using a cool phrase regularly. The Kelvin Pike used “Punch It” and Discovery Pike used “Hit it”. Now Saru is trying to find his own phrase. Is this really something these characters should be worrying about? Why do the writers believe that this is important? Post-Burn has resulted in a fractured galaxy where communications and travel are difficult. The flow of information appears to be greatly reduced and restricted because of the conditions left after the Burn. But, Book aka Budget Idris Elba is about to get a call from home that there is a problem. His home planet is far away by warp and yet communications don’t appear to be a big problem. In a surprising twist from previous episodes this season, Burnham actually brings this problem to the attention of the Chain-of-Command, perhaps losing the First Officer position combined with the dressing down she received from Mom the Ninja Nun had an impact from the last couple of episodes. Admiral “Eat a Snickers Bar” actually agrees to let Discover go on this mission with one firm order: “If there is any trouble, LEAVE.” Meanwhile, the Discovery Nerds discover the origin location for the Burn and, thanks to Saru’s extra sensitive ears, is able to discover both music (music we’ve heard before in other episodes of Trek and Battlestar Galactica) and a Federation distress signal! Just like that! Of course, we need to slow it down now and introduce the need to run an algorithm to get more information. Enter Discovery’s 32nd Century Weasly-like Whiz Kid! But she…er…they are distracted as her…their… imaginary boyfriend is not talking to…er…them for some reason. Another potential sub-plot. Discovery jumps, this time right in front of everyone in the Federation magic bubble making me wonder if this new/old spore drive thing is really being kept secret. Idris and Burnham go down to the planet with Burnham in street duds rather than uniform. Speaking of uniforms, if Starfleet is so concerned about maintaining cover on Discovery’s origin and back story, then why in hell are they all still wearing 900-year-old uniforms? Why not SF uniforms of the period? It’s like having people dressed during the time of the 12th century Crusade battles at Jeruselim show-up at Starbucks to order coffee. I understand they want to save money, but this hardly suspends disbelief. Burnham and Idris are taken prisoner by Idris’ brother from another mother, Budget Antonio Banderas. Apparently, there is some bad feelings going with Idris and Antonio. We also learn that those pesky Sea Locusts are raising havoc with the planet. It turns out that Book and his people have this special Dr. Dolittle/Aquaman power that lets them talk to the animals. Unfortunately, the Sea Locusts can’t be persuaded to return to the sea and they are the reason for a famine on Idris and Antonio’s planet. The new villain debuts in this episode, Green Gal Ossyra is a badass who fed her own nephew to one of those space worm things. Unlike the time one of them gulped Burnham, this time nephew is dismembered and dies in a gruesome scene, yet another death in the new “Murder Trek” where people are vaporized and dismembered on a regular basis. Anyway, the new Green Menace, Ossyra, seems to be the only one that can save the people of Idris and Antonio’s planet. This is never really explained, but she has some type of control over these people and seems to be in a deal with Antonio. Green Menace threatens Saru and Discovery with her dreadnought ship that is “armed to the teeth” according to one of the undeveloped background bridge crew guys. This creates a real problem for Saru when he is put in a Michael Burnham moment when Ossyra starts bombarding the planet. Saru is reminded of Admiral Snicker Bar’s orders but, like Burnham, seems willing to go cowboy and is assisted by newly-instated First Officer Tilly who recommends a plan based upon the “Burnham Maneuver” of stretching the rules and basically disobeying.  This time they put the burden on the Pilot/Helmswoman character who is suffering from some type of stress disorder, so PTS Pilot is the logical choice to put on a suicide mission to attack the “Armed to the teeth” Ossyra ship using Idris’ Nike Swoosh ship. Oh, and she should take an antenna-less Andorian guy with her. It turns out nobody thought about removing the big cat from the ship prior to it going on a dangerous mission because this situation… Read more »

Last edited 6 months ago by S. Finnegan

The weakest episode of the season by far, although still entertaining for many smaller character moments. Discovery is doing a good job giving the show more personality and fun. But the writing in parts of this episode is just incomprehensibly bad and the budget-constrained production makes it worse. The only sets they use to depict this planet is a swanky house in Toronto and the woods behind it, yet we are suppose to believe they are destitute and starving farmers battling a crop plague? Nevermind that in this universe and time period, technology surely has solved this problem as well as it had in the 24th century. This made ZERO sense from a storytelling or visual perspective and it was so glaringly obvious. Detmer’s catharsis is also nonsensical. The motivation driving the villain (capturing Ryn so he doesn’t tell them they are running out of Dilithium) is also very weak storytelling. This season has unfortunately lost steam for me, it’s once again clear that the writing isn’t going to deliver when it’s this lazy and obvious. Despite the show’s apparent budget cutting, the VFX and cinematography have improved this season, some really spectacular visuals in this episode.

Last edited 6 months ago by Michael K

Okay, I have watched every episode of this series and I have concluded…WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!!!
It is so frustrating to have waited years for TPTB to finally launch a new Star Trek series and have it be this drivel. All that money and effort spent to produce something so BORING! Gawd, I’d rather watch wet paint dry.
There is not even a hint of it being Star Trek related, other than the name of the show.
It’s a DISGRACE to have waited all this time to be served up this GARBAGE.
Bring on Pike with SNW so we can wash this stinker out of our heads!

Same people in charge. I won’t be expecting much improvement.

Except for two things, blackmocco. SNW will have an episodic flavour to it, like TOS. Also, Anson Mount IS a charismatic actor AND is playing an INTERESTING character.

All true. But the production team from Secret Hideout will ALWAYS handicap every single Trek show they make.

im curious if they are ever gonna address Detmer’s implant. Medical science has obviously progressed since the 23rd century, so perhaps Starfleet can offer her a more advanced version, or maybe eliminate the need for it entirely?