“That Hope Is You, Part 2”
Star Trek: Discovery Season 3, Episode 13– Debuted Thursday, January 7, 2021
Written by: Michelle Paradise
Directed by: Olatunde Osunsanmi
The third time is the charm with a mix of fast-paced action and emotional character beats to balance the best season finale of the series so far. Playing it a bit safe, “That Hope is You, Part 2” keeps the season’s lighter theme, and highlights the recurring theme of connection.
WARNING: Spoilers below!
“Let us go”
With last week’s feeble attempt at diplomacy out of the way, Osyraa starts the episode’s frantic action off by going to all-out war with the Federation. Faced with losing the vital spore drive ship to the Orion big bad, Vance makes the tough choice and orders the fleet to destroy the Disco as the ship blows its way out of the HQ bubble to rendezvous with the Viridian. Erasing her recently acquired nuance, Osyraa goes full-on villain with one dastardly action after another, ordering up some torture for Book, cutting off life support to Tilly and her bridge crew, and threatening to poison the Federation and Ni’Var fleets—oh, yeah the Vulcan/Romulans showed up too—with pesticide bombs.
Stepping in at this moment is Michael, who entreats Vance to take a leap of faith. To avoid more destruction, she asks him to trust her to handle things and let the ship go to warp. It’s a big ask and Chuck is not happy about it, but he agrees and off to warp they go, with the Feds and Ni’Varians following. Michael’s next test is to see if she can hold out on revealing the secrets of the dilithium planet while Osyraa and Zareh use one of those neural headbands to drill into her boyfriend Book’s mind. Michael is facing her own no-win situation. As for Chain scientist Aurelio, he’s now seriously reconsidering the life choices that led him to this moment.
“You must face it, or we will all die here”
Checking in on the Su’Kal storyline on the dilithium planet, Adira shows up with some meds to add some time to the ticking clock. There is a bit of a surprise when the failing holo program turns Gray into a virtual Vulcan that everyone can see, but there isn’t enough time to explore that weirdness as the Kelpien man-child’s outbursts are causing the ship to fall apart around them.
Only through some very careful Kelpien bonding can human-form Saru make a connection with Su’Kal, who remains terrified of the “outside.” In some surprisingly touching scenes, this episode finds time for Doug Jones and Bill Irwin to explore as the tragic truth of The Burn slowly dawns on the Kelpien at the heart of it. Slowly but surely Saru makes a connection to Su’Kal as he tries to let go of the holographic fantasy world which he has lived in almost all of his life.
“It’s a suicide mission”
Channeling her inner Vincent Vega, Michael opts for door number 3 with a ruse and jump-starts Book with some adrenaline, then escapes to pivot back to her John McClane routine from the last episode. This comes just in time, as Tilly and the gang are running out of air as well as ideas on how to take back the ship. Using a regulator badge, Mike gets Tilly a coded message about fireworks and her last birthday, which she amazingly translates into a plan to blow up one of the nacelles and drop them out of warp.
Only one problem with the plan: It’s a one-way mission that can’t be done by one of the Sphere Data bots. The only one who can make the trip is Owo, thanks to some conveniently timed free-diving character development. And here is where Tilly’s arc as first officer finally comes in, as she makes the hard call and sends Owo off to what we are led to believe is certain death, after a nice brief goodbye. And hugging, of course.
“We need you to lead us”
The pace on the ship really starts amping up when Michael and Book are fighting their way to reset the computer, but first they need to get through some routine shootouts with Zareh and his regulators. This leads into a mind-bending action sequence within the ship’s turbolift network which is so vast it indicates a kind of quantum bigger-on-the-inside reality at the heart of the Disco. The pair splits up, leaving Book to dispatch Zareh after he becomes the latest guy to make the mistake of insulting Grudge’s thyroid problem. She is big-boned, and a queen, and now you are a stain on the floor… assuming this massive reality ‘turbo-space’ has a floor.
Michael makes it to the Apple Store running the Discovery, but unfortunately Osryaa and her helmet goons are working the Genius Bar and all they have to offer is GenericFightScene 1.0. Just as Owo’s mission to drop the ship out of warp works, Burnham tries one last plea for peace, but Osyraa has gone full cartoon villain and isn’t listening. The season’s big bad then makes the classic mistake of pushing the good guy until a wall of programmable matter particle things, assuming that is all it takes. She’s wrong, though, and gets a hole in the head as her reward, leaving Michael free to hit control-alt-delete and take over the ship, which has now dropped out of warp only to be absorbed into the Viridian. Geez, these guys can’t catch a break.
With the Chain kicked off the ship, everyone meets up on the bridge. Even Owo survived, saved by the sacrifice of the Sphere Data in a DOT-23. Let’s just take a moment here… the whole reason we came to the 32nd century, the thing that could not be deleted or destroyed, sacrificed itself to save just one life. Very Star Trek. Now Michael and Aurelio have a cunning plan to get to the nebula—oh yeah, they are totally BFFs now, somehow. Tilly accepts the arc of history and hands the reins over to Burnham, who hands navigation off to her boyfriend who can apparently do what Stamets does through his empathic superpowers. Who knew? Before they spore away, they leave the Emerald Chain flagship a little present in the form of an ejected and overloading warp core. Shaxs would be so proud.
“You are no longer alone”
Back at the dilithium planet, Hugh and Adira finally sort out The Burn through the magic of technobabble. Saru, no stranger to living a life of fear, is able to guide the skittish Su’Kal to the room where he and only he can turn off the holodeck. But before he can do that, Hugh and Adira share a moment with Gray, vowing to find a way to bring him back and make him seen by everyone.
After shutting the program down, we see a replay of how this all began, when the child Su’Kal—genetically infused with dilithium—caused The Burn due to the anguish of his mother’s death and being left alone, amplified through his ability to communicate with the crucial substance through subspace. It’s only through the support of Saru and the team that he is able to take on this huge burden, vowing to find a way to repair what he has broken. Just as the Keplien ship finally crumbles around them, the Discovery shows up to beam them away to return to Starfleeet HQ, guided in with an honor guard of starships laying out a path. Nice.
“Miracles can happen”
With the main character and plotlines of the episode and season wrapped up as much as they can within the time allotted, the episode pivots to a coda and some Michael voice-over. However, unlike the melodrama of the wrap-ups of the previous two seasons, this time it’s more of a montage of loose ends being tied, such as Reno resurrecting SphereDot-23 and Episode 301 lonely Federation guy showing up at HQ. With Osyraa gone and a planet-sized bucketload of dilithium, the Federation is starting to rebuild, beginning with the Trill and maybe the Vulcan/Romulans too. Oh, and in case you hadn’t picked up on the recurring theme of the episode—and season—Michael makes sure you know it was all about connection.
Vance is so happy he could order a double helping of poop-apple pie as he welcomes back Burnham, admitting she may not play by his rules, but she gets the job done. In fact, he has a new job for her: Captain of the USS Discovery! Yeah, BAM! Turns out Saru is going to be busy with Su’Kal on Kaminar and she has his blessing too. Their mission? To deliver dilithium to all the good little girls and boys around the regrowing Federation. Oh, and their new uniforms finally arrived too, tailor-fit for this renewed crew to finish what they started. With a still-angry Stamets being the only fly in the ointment, everyone is all smiles for CAPTAIN Michael Burnham as she takes command, sits in the chair for the first time ever, and sets off for season four with her brand-new catchphrase.
Get the job done
With a safe episode long on action and short on surprises, “That Hope is You, Part 2” stuck the landing of a complicated and important season for the show as it moved into an entirely new era. And it still found enough time for some nice character moments, especially with the Saru/Su’Kal storyline. Season three has had a lighter tone than the previous ones, so it may not be a surprise that all the good guys made it out alive and all the bad guys didn’t, but as a show that wants us to accept it is dealing with weighty issues and high stakes, it should not be afraid to play with live ammo.
Writer and co-showrunner Paradise effectively wove the season’s theme of connectedness through that storyline and elsewhere in the episode. Like some of her other episodes, Paradise is great at hitting emotional beats and keeping the story flowing, but often at the expense of hand-waving and head-scratching details that can get in the way if you dwell on them. For example, the moment where the Sphere Data housed in a DOT-23 sacrificed itself to save Owo was powerful, but only if you ignore how DOT-23s were treated as cannon fodder elsewhere in the same episode and assume this particular DOT-23 uniquely carried that ever-important emerging sentient AI.
There are other examples like this, and while they are not unique to Discovery and can often be small details, they do start to add up. For some viewers, they can hit a critical mass where you spend too much time nitpicking, leaving you to miss the moments and the message the episode has to offer.
Director Olatunde Osunsanmi did an excellent job of balancing different tones and pacing that each of the stories required, helped along by the excellent Discovery editing team that does not get enough credit. The way the final scene with Captain Burnham was handled just right, giving it some majesty but not overdoing it. Visually the episode was stunning, saving up some of that impressive budget for an array of exciting VFX; even if the ‘turbo-space’ is ludicrous, it looks pretty amazing, and kudos for them for leaning into it and using it for a story reason and not just eye candy shots. While it was understandable that they didn’t want a repeat of the S2 finale with a big space battle, would it have killed them to give us a beauty shot of the Voyager-J, especially after Vance ordered it into action?
As has been the case all season long, this episode was elevated by its guest stars, notably Bill Irwin as Su’Kal, the tragic figure at the heart of The Burn. Here’s hoping he’ll be back in season four. Oded Fehr is always great as Vance, adding gravitas to every scene he is in. However, once again Tig Notaro shows up with almost nothing to say or do as Jett Reno, which is just a waste.
Season finales on a highly serialized show are challenging, but the big issues of the season have been pretty wrapped up, for the most part. The big mystery of The Burn was explained, and the solution tying into the season’s theme of connection may be a bit off the wall, but so is a ship that flies on mushrooms. It turns out that there was no big bad behind The Burn; it was something simpler, and really about a character and a personal tragedy… and now it can tie into a new potential storyline for Saru in season four.
So there was no lurking big bad behind The Burn. The Emerald Chain was there as an opportunistic anti-Federation foil to stand in the way of the good guys as they tried to bring hope back to the galaxy. They were a bit inconsistent about the Chain, and after revealing it to be bigger and more complex in the previous episode, it seemed a bit too easily defeated after Osyraa’s death with just a line of voice-over.
The mystery of Kovich remains, as David Cronenberg is confirmed to return in season 4, although the way Vance didn’t defer to him in the season finale likely means he isn’t the President of the Federation, leaving that to be a new character for the next season.
As for Adira and the exploration of the Trill mythology, this storyline still has a lot of room to go, and the character is an excellent addition to the show. It now seems clear that the focus on Gray was a long game with a socially relevant message in this finale about being “seen,” setting up the goal of getting Gray seen by everyone next season.
They also threw us a curveball by keeping the excellent David Ajala around all the way to the end, and making him the solution to making the spore drive work for others besides Paul Stamets—although it isn’t exactly clear how many Kwejian empaths are around to help drive potential new spore drive ships.
As for Grudge, sometimes a cat is just a cat… and a queen.
This season and certainly this finale appear to have finished the job of transforming Discovery from what it was when it began in 2017. It’s not just lighter tone and lack of bald Klingons; we now have a new era with new uniforms on a refit ship, with the show’s main character as captain. The episode even ended with the original Star Trek theme, but this time it wasn’t for the arrival of the original Enterprise, but to introduce us to Captain Michael Burnham. And after three seasons, it was time.
Unlike past seasons, we aren’t ending on a cliffhanger that sets up a new season, but more of a gradual transition with a nod to more work to be done. And there are plenty of things to deal with, from Saru’s mission on Kaminar to Paul’s simmering issues with Michael, and more.
Hopefully, Captain Michael and crew can also take this moment to explore the 32nd century, which so far still feels a little small, and even a little too familiar. This is supposed to be an opportunity to go beyond the canon of Trek, but Discovery has yet to fully embrace this new future and the strange new worlds and adventures we can only hope are on offer in season four and beyond.
In a time-honored tradition of the franchise, Discovery is improving each season, with many areas left for improvement. But season three has renewed my hope for the series and anticipation for season four.
Random extra bits
- The episode ended with a quote from Gene Roddenberry, which came from the book The Making of Star Trek, where he was explaining why he fought the network to keep Spock as a character after the first pilot, “The Cage.”
- Orion hearts have six valves.
- The space-whale gormagander was first seen in the season one episode of Discovery ”Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad.”
- Zareh makes another “Calypso” reference, talking about the Alcorian Sorrowhawk.
- Michael does not believe in no-win situations, just like James T. Kirk in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
- Tilly ordering Owo into the nacelles and certain death was like the command training program test when Troi had to do the same with Geordi in the TNG episode “Thine Own Self.”
- The Kelpien holodeck portrayed Adira as a Xahean, first introduced in the Short Treks “Runaway.”
- Dr. Culber’s technobabble about dilithium affecting Su’Kal in utero is somewhat based on the real genetics science behind Polyploidy.
- The mining ship USS Coloma is aptly named for the town which sparked the California Gold Rush.
- The young Su’Kal was played by David Benjamin Tomlinson, who also appeared briefly as Linus in the final scene.
More to come
Every Friday the new TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek Podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe and discusses the latest episode. The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.
New episodes of Star Trek: Discovery premiere on Thursdays on CBS All Access in the U.S. and on CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada, where it’s also available to stream on Crave. Episodes are available on Fridays internationally on Netflix.
Keep up with all the news and reviews from the new Star Trek Universe on TV at TrekMovie.com.
I like that they made Michael the captain.
I just don’t think the dynamics of Star Trek work by centering the story on a character who’s not the captain/commanding officer. I think a lot of the complaints about Burnam don’t exist if she’s the one issuing orders, instead of looking like a jerk disobeying them.
Personally I would really like to see a show that takes inspiration from Lower Decks (the TNG episode not the cheesy show) where the main characters are the Ensigns and it follows their careers. By the last few episodes of the final season, one of them is promoted to Captain.
I think that would be a really interesting concept.
Isn’t that kind of what the “cheesy show” is?
I think you’re right. Having her disobeying orders all the time to go her own way didn’t feel right, and putting her in the center chair should make it easier to swallow her as the center of everything.
It hit me watching it yesterday, that Michael’s dynamic within “Discovery” is similar to Jack Bauer on “24.”
An emergency occurs, everyone else screws up, Michael/Jack are at the center of the action and often have to disobey their orders in order to stop disaster, and all the other characters end up being their support staff who watch while they save the day.
Sound more like TOS.
Yeah because Kirk never disobeying orders and went his own way. Double standard much?
No one disobeyed orders more than Kirk did. So what’s your point?
One point to be made is that Captains have a degree of latitude to disobey or reinterpret orders, because they’re in the trenches. They understand the situation better than some desk jockey a quadrant away. Command generally understands that. They’re the Captain for a reason. Command trusts them to make those calls.
In this case, we have the lead cashier closing the McDonalds early without the permission of the store manager. If the manager had a reason (flooding, rioting), he could sell it to corporate. If some teenager has a date and closes the store, the manager will get fired for not controlling his or her team, as will the teen, for being an insubordinate jerk.
Kirk didn’t disobey orders left and right. He did so on occasion where in his judgement the situation warranted it. I wouldn’t say those instances were rare but they certainly weren’t common. But most of the time he obeyed the orders sometimes to a detriment.
There’s just the small matter of YANKING the captaincy away from Saru, who did nothing wrong, in favor of Burnham who did everything wrong (for the right reasons). Guess there’s precedent with the Jellico situation, but that was temporary while Picard was on assignment.
Still a dick move.
I agree. It is a little bit of an FU to Saru.
Saru did nothing wrong? He’s made a shitty decision literally in every episode of the season. It would take too long to list them all here, starting with ignoring chain of command, selling up his crew, to appointing an Ensign to XO, which predictably blew up in his face. Mistakes piles up.
Read. It occurred to me earlier this season in a specific moment of a specific episode that I can no longer remember that Star Trek just feels weird without the captain as it’s star. It makes a
Yes that is true.
But at the same time it is sad.
Why makes a higher rank it easier for us to accept disobediance?
Either disobediance in the context of a specific situation is morally wrong or it is the right thing to do (Picard in Insurrection).
Rank shouldn’t make a difference in our judgment.
Actually thinking about it.
Rank should make disobedience even harder rather than more relateable
In a lower rank you are just making decisions for yourself, bearing consequences for yourself.
As a captain your disobedience pulls your whole crew into a impossible situation between loyalty to their captain and loyalty to Starfleet.
It’s crazy to give someone like this the captain’s chair. They should have given her the rank of captain, but a different assignment, where she can work for her own – maybe as agent of SF Intelligence
Actually, at a lower rank your disobedience can totally screw others over. Maybe in a small way or if the situation is dire, in a much larger way. Disobedience is not good under any circumstance when you are part of a larger mechanism. Others are counting on you to do your part.
I’ll miss the old uniforms.
I hate the turbo lifts on discovery. There I said it.
Agreed. It was a ludicrous design in the Kelvin universe and it was sillier here.
I don’t recall seeing that in the KU. Only in the Michael-verse.
There were huge wide open spaces in the Enterprise in “Into Darkness”. Not the same as Discovery’s ridiculous TARDIS, but the same style.
The only open space I recall seeing was where the warp core was. It’s not like there were cavernous spaces running to all corners of the ship on the inside.
What about that catwalk scene where Kirk is about to fall until Chekov grabs his arm?
That was Engineering. And the Kelvin-timeline Enterprise is much larger.
I forgot about the brewery they had on that ship. But as was said below, that ship was a whole lot bigger. The KU Enterprise was even bigger than her prime counterpart. Your point is taken but I don’t think it holds a candle to what we see inside Disocovery.
I don’t know how it makes any sense as far as the ship’s internal volume. The ship would be a TARDIS if there’s that much space on the inside for the turbo lifts to traverse.
Wouldn’t the Federation have some sort of TARDIS type tech in the 31st century?
In the 2152s, the NX-01 retrieved a 31st century time travel pod which was larger in the inside.
Also, there was the short alliance between the Borg and the Cybermen on stardate 45635 that the Ent-D helped stop. This event led to the Borg investigating time travel.
There’s a couple of similar cut scenes in season two (pre 31st century upgrades) showing a ludicrous amount of internal space for the turbolifts. The people making the show simply don’t care enough to think how big Starfleet ships are and how big a ship needs to be to accommodate its crew. Discovery has a complement of c. 100 yet has hundreds of cubic miles of space in it.
I guess that this is some hyperbole on your part. What they showed was definitely not hundreds of cubic miles.
The thing is that, since they build these virtual sets in the computer they should have a pretty good idea how big these spaces “really” are. They should also have a pretty good idea how big their digital model of Discovery is.
I’m not saying that I’m sure it all fits. It’s still very much possible that the producers are taking some creative liberties here. However, some of the size estimates thrown around by fans online are also way off.
And they don’t need to be exact. There is no reason to have detailed schematics and designs of the ship. But whatever they do must be a believable estimate. What they have shown us regarding the turbolifts is insane.
I want to see schematics. I want to know why Michael Burnham and Ensign Tilly had to share a small room and lower decks crew have to sleep in hallway alcoves, but the turbolifts are like space mountain; little cars whizzing around on tracks (or antigravs) in a large empty chasm.
Granted, I’m mixing Disco lore and Lower Decks lore, but this story spans 1000 years. And Tilly’s still in the same little closet of a bedroom, just without the ex-con roomie.
This is similar to the turboshaft problem in Star Trek V. The Enterprise had 23 decks, but the gravity boot fiasco came to a just-in-time halt on Deck 78, which was at the TOP of the shaft. Decks are counted top-down, both on starships and contemporary cruise ships. That’s the way decks work.
There is no in-universe explanation for this. This happened because William Shatner did not know how to write for Star Trek, and he couldn’t care less whether it was “correct”. The same holds true for the writers of Discovery.
There’s creative license, and then there’s incompetence, laziness, and the ego to tell one’s own story even if it doesn’t fit.
That is an example of a screw up, for sure. But here is the thing… If the movie was better, it would not matter to me all that much. Just a nit pick inside a good story. But the movie was not good so I gets piled on to what is already a large pile of complaints.
This right here. If the movie were GOOD, we’d be encouraged to explain it away somehow. If you’re otherwise healthy and have a broken arm, that’s one thing. If your entire skeleton is disintegrating, it’s more indicative of a systemwide collapse than a boo-boo.
Maybe, but Discovery is from the 23rd Century and we already saw that huge rollercoaster turbolifts in previous seasons.
At one point the Enterprise NX-01 salvages a ship crewed by Daniels that is bigger on the inside. So it would appear that they do. However Discovery logically wouldn’t have it.
There may have been TARDIS tech as early as the 23rd century. One would have had to crouch inside the Galileo shuttlecraft if the inside was consistent with it’s external dimensions.
There are analyses of the ships on YT. A Galaxy class ship with its stated crew compliment means that you could spend your entire commission without ever seeing another person.
It ridiculously stupid. A ship is now mostly an empty warehouse that doesn’t even fit in the geometry and space of the ship
They’re truly ridiculous; no starship could afford to devote THAT much space to the freaking elevators!
Utterly ridiculous. It damn neared ruined the whole episode for me.
And really…. Why do they even need the lifts? They can just beam everywhere. Why do a refit and include them at all?
As they showed several times over the course of this season: Their site-to-site transporters don’t always work.
Only when evil Orians take over the ship it seems. But then, why can’t they walk or take the stairs in such an eventuality?
I don’t think we’ve ever seen stairs on a Federation starship even though I think they are shown in some schematics. We have seen ladders.
Given the size of these ships, walking from point A to point B would simply take too long.
True but with site to site personal transporters it’s not a problem. And the tubes with ladders would really only be for emergencies. So again… Why turbolifts?
Just because site-to-site transporters exist doesn’t mean everybody suddenly stops walking to places. This is a completely ridiculous discussion.
True but tubolifts aren’t walking. It’s just standing and letting the tech take you there. The personal transporter is the same thing. Only faster.
We’ve seen at Starfleet HQ, Admiral Vance and a subordinate on a lower level, walk into an alcove, and appear on the upper level in the same frame. They have STS transporters that will move you up ONE deck without using stairs (so clearly they DO stop walking to places at certain levels of inconvenience like ascending one floor). Why is this not the case for larger distances when it actually matters?
If the answer is “because transporters can fail”, I reply with “Why are the nacelles disconnected if the magnetic bindings can fail?” We’ve seen that happen in this episode too, and the ship’s only had separated nacelles for a couple MONTHS. How many times in the 55-year history of Star Trek did a nacelle just fall off? Not one damn time.
Discovery’s nacelle didn’t just fall off, it was blown off by Owo.
We’ve seen lots of people use turbolifts on Discovery since they got to the 32nd century, not just for the action sequence during the finale. I think I remember the scene at Starfleet HQ that you’re talking about. Funny thing is: I’m not sure if doing the transporter VFX was actually cheaper than if they had built a turbolift into that set (plus it’s a nice visual gimmick in the scene). Even if you take that one scene to suggest that Starfleet has completely abandoned turbolifts in the 32nd century it doesn’t mean that the Discovery crew would necessarily agree and break with their habit of using turbolifts. They have certainly grown up in a society with turbolifts. On the inside, Discovery looks basically the same after the upgrade with only some improvements to some of their computer interfaces. Now you can either chalk that up to budget constraints (they couldn’t afford building all new sets) or you can accept that Starfleet tried to make the transition for Discovery’s crew as easy as possible by keeping familiar elements. That would include the turbolifts on Discovery.
I can buy that. There’s precedent for that, too. Pike had holo-comms torn out of the Enterprise, even though the “better tech” was available. Granted, this was just to explain the canon violation of HAVING holo-comms in the first place, but it’s buyable. I respect buyability. Well said!
I agree. I mostly enjoyed the episode but I hated the turbo shaft of infinite volume SOOOO much that I nearly declared the entire episode a failure (and I know that that’s an “opinion” so please don’t anybody try to define the word “opinion” to me.) Stupid shit like that makes Discovery hard to defend among the mean-spirited Trekkies who will just never be satisfied. This was just dumb.
Unlike many others I am perfectly capable of differentiating opinion from fact. No need to label the obvious.
Then you’re melodramatic to the point of absurdity.
They were neat! You are all poopers-of-the-party!
I’m always here to cheer on the modular habitrail ship interiors.
I also think it’s cool that instead of rails or shafts, in the 32nd century, the turbolifts are moving between field rings.
I will grant the interior to exterior volume is mystifying, but with a smaller crew, a few hundred less specialized scientific labs (because programmable matter doesn’t need hard specialization) and everyone wanting windows in their quarters, what new modules does Discovery need to fit in that empty volume in the spaceframe.
Well said. There I agree with it.
Agreed. That is just a weird concept and feels like an amazing waste of space and energy.
I’m mixed on them. They don’t quite make sense, but they are cool.
Yet people on here will try to pretend that there’s a logical reason explaining them other than the writers and showrunners not being very intelligent at all.
This show is a total mess and an insult to the great name of Star Trek.
There are posters who seem to do some severe mental gymnastics to justify EVERYTHING Discovery does.
There are posters who seem to do some severe mental gymnastics to HATE everything Discovery does.
Not gymnastics at all. More like walking across a room that should be empty, and running into a bunch of concrete furniture that has no place in that room.
Jumping on the bandwagon here, very, very stupid. It just feels so ridiculously out of place. I see people on Reddit trying to excuse it saying the technology is based on the 31st century ship of that dead Temporal agent that traveled back in time to the 22nd century on Enterprise in Future Tense. But that was actually a ship built in that time; Discovery wasn’t. And that was part of the plot of that episode. This just felt lazy and thrown together.
Agreed. It makes NO sense.
It took me out of the show. That, and the fact that the episode was very poor storytelling.
Why Federation ships got turbo lifts, in 32nd century??
Exactly my point above.
I not only hate the turbolifts, but I also hate the fact that they operate with all of the doors open so you can see the fight happening inside.
I hate that an ejected matter-antimatter reactor BOUNCES AGAINST THE SIDE of the shaft as it goes out. Like throwing a hotdog through a hallway.
I hate that there are 4 space suits mounted on the walls on every corridor intersection, but the bridge crew have to share one handheld respirator to perform a simple task, and that this oversight survived until the 30th century and beyond.
I hate that I liked this season all the way up till the final episode. We even got the first “We are Starfleet” this season. The utterance of that phrase heralded a cascade of returns-to-form that I have been dreading all season.
Thanks for the insightful review. Anthony. I especially appreciated your comments about not letting nitpicking get in the way of enjoying a satisfying finale, while still noting some oddities (like the massive Disco turbo lift interior). Michael ending up in the captain’s chair (as set up this whole season) is perhaps a recognition that placing the lead star of a Trek show in a subordinate position doesn’t work out so well. May we work on making connections in our divisive time!
P.S. looks like Edward and I were thinking along similar lines. Great minds and all that …
It’s fun to notice that by the end of the episode, in her new grays, SMG is pretty preggos, haha! She looks radiant and I’m betting she was about four months. A “werking” mother.
Buffy’s on this show????
I kid, just seeing SMG like that makes me thing of Sarah Michelle Geller
Please change the turbolifts next season. It makes no sense!
Otherwise I agree with many of the points made in the article. Job well done and looking forward to ssn4
A little behind on my viewing. Captain. Damnit.
On the plus side: It gives you the chance to experience the full resolution in one go instead of having to wait a week after each episode. With some of the more stand-alone episodes I don’t mind the breaks but some multi-episode arcs really work better watched together.
So Burnham is Captain, not sure about that, the show already has too much of a focus on her as is.
Lackluster ending to a lackluster season. It really feels like they didn’t have enough plot for a whole season and it was stretched. First two seasons had more momentum and more of interest going on.)
The Roddenberry quote was a bit jarring as the season really didn’t have too many Roddenberry elements; too much Michael Bay style cuts and dull action during the season.
The Two Wesley’s aren’t very good actors.
The Uniforms at end and the Admiral Uniform look very dull and drab, look they are from Galaxy Quest. The last scene also seemed like it is from Galaxy Quest.
I think the uniforms would look better if they were black instead of grey, and not asymmetrical (what is the deal with that anyway, the costume designer has a real thing for that).
I actually like them, although I agree they might be better off in black. Asymmetry has been a part of Star Trek’s uniforms from the very beginning: Kirk’s captain’s tunic, not to mention the TNG and TOS maroon uniforms. The Discovery uniforms have been far too blingy; I’m glad they toned it down.
That last still of her sitting in the costume made me think she was pregnant, it didn’t seem to fit at all. Just at first glance with these images, the costumes look utilitarian but still terrible (a neat trick, since I thought the original DSC uniforms were too gaudy and terrible.)
The elevators were one of my prime ‘I can’t watch this’ moments of s2, so if they’ve mined that for a big sequence, I think skipping this series altogether from now on for me is totally justified. You can’t fix stupid, and these indicators are MESSAGE FROM SPACE-level stupid (I always cite that one, since you have folks walking around in space without helmets — shades of anti-maskers? — because the director wanted space to be seen as a friendly place!) Want another example? We know what space looks like, but no, DSC has to make it fuzzy and blue. Exteriors on the show look more like a low-rez version of TRON.
I think I’ll check back in when SNW shows up, but there’s nothing for me here at present. SNW promises to be the biggest disappointment thus far (and DSC has already set that bar REALLY high, given how many times and how extremely it disappointed me in 2 godawful seasons), as it has the immense goodwill built up by Mount’s charming and compelling performance, but in the hands of creative inferiors (admittedly, that’s a blanket judgement, based on Kurtzman’s hiring practices and ‘taste’), it just promises to be a MATRIX-sequel-level disappointment.
MIchael Hall and a few of the others here who have earned my respect with your discerning posts, my best to you, see you in 202_.
She was. Her daughter was born in July 2020.
To me the biggest disappointment was Lower Decks. But that was because I was expecting more from McMahon. This show I really didn’t know what to expect but ended up with bad. Hence, LDX being superior in the “disappointment” category.
The TWOK uniforms were asymmetrical and (in my opinion) badass to an extreme thenceforth unseen in Star Trek. There’s an example of making something “completely un-Star Trek like”, and making it so great it earns inclusion into canon.
God, the 80’s were a magical time. Just friggin’ magical.
The uniforms reminded me of the ones in TMP.
Perfect Discovery logic. Rather than, “let’s give other more characters, like the captain, more screen time”, the answer is “just make her the captain so they stop complaining”. Screw the alien captain; he’s not diverse enough. Wait…
Speaking of diversity, I agree about the Wesleys. Another example of “lets do it because we can” and not “because we should”.
On the subject of uniforms. Why is the rank insignia so tiny? The purpose of the insignia is to know whether or not you’re addressing a superior or subordinate officer, but you have to get way within their personal space to see the literal HALF INCH of 5-millimeter pips on their epaulets or badge. “Lieutenant, why are you staring at my breasts?” “I’m sorry… ummmmm…. sir! Just checking whether or not to call you sir, sir.”
I understand Lieutenant Dan not wanting to be saluted on account of Charlie snipers, but dude, you could tell what rank someone was from across the room with TNG collar pips, TWOK shoulder-insignia or TOS wrist-stripes.
Other than that, the new uniforms are kinda cool. I dig ’em, mostly. But this whole “rank on the badge” thing has always seemed counterproductive, and the new epaulets are even worse. Shouldn’t take more than a glance to know where someone stands in the hierarchy.
And yes, totally reminiscent of Galaxy Quest. Which is a step in the right direction where Disco’s concerned. They could learn a lot from that film, and not just about costume design. Like maybe HOW FANDOM WORKS.
This episode feels like something out of time. No cliffhanger, no tease, just an ending that could just as easily have served as a series finale rather than a season finale. I like it, but my current television watching brain, conditioned by modernity, was itching for puzzle pieces to the season ahead.
My only real complaint is that we didn’t get a really good look at the Voyager-J in action after it was specifically name called. Maybe they ran out of effects budget, or they’re saving that for later?
Part of me really wants to know who is captaining that ship. After all, there was a holographic doctor who could very well still be alive at this point — not to mention the other version of him that left the Space Nazi Museum and should have arrived in Federation territory not too terribly long ago.
But that’s probably my Finishing Up Season Six Of Voyager Rewatch brain talking.
Yeah that was another complaint I had as well. You mention the Voyager three times by name and all we get is a 5 second shot of the ship??? And I wanted to see the other starships involved in some part of the season. I understand they don’t want to just do the generic space battles but in this instance it would’ve just been nice to see ships other than the Discovery doing literally ALL the heavy work. I assume it has to be a budget issue and that’s understandable but it just felt too much like a tease. It would’ve been nice to see inside of one of them, especially Voyager.
Very disappointing, but maybe it will happen next season.
The ending was alright from my standpoint. To think about it from the other side of the coin….Season 1-3 were more or less a continuation story arc…and we saw a conclusion to in Season 3 finale. Sure it would have been nice to see a “post-credit’ scene of a cliffhanger or something…but considering when the scripts were written, the production and filming had taken place, etc. and the whole pandemic…
The writers probably more or less wrote the the last Episode to draw this conclusion to this story arc (per se)….with the notion that they may not get a renewal for Season 4 (its possible that a renewal was hanging in the mist “at the time”)
It was nice ending….it finishes the story……and really sets it up for another adventure and story line without “too much baggage” going forward.
Wow! I enjoyed this episode. Glad Michael is finally the Captain. It was like a short movie. Surprised Season 3 Finale is not a cliffhanger!
I wonder why? First thing that comes to my mind “Waiting for Season 4 to be confirmed?” Then, maybe in purpose to leave all the issues behind? But for some reason, I have a feeling this was also open to propose a Star Trek Discovery movie.
Great job. Visually stunning. Will watch it again very soon. :P
Ummm Discovery Movie? And they’re talking about new diferent and not blockbustered movies… well… I LIKE IT!
They are filming Discovery Season 4 now. It seems like they might be reformatting the show somewhat to be a more episodic exploration of the new timeline that they are in.
Agreed on that. The brief for their next mission (get dilithium from the mining planet and deliver it to several other planets) sure sounds like it might set up more planets of the week.
Since they suggested that the Emerald Chain is much more than just Osyraa I would actually like if they explored that, hopefully with a more interesting counterpart on the side of the Orians/Andorians. The cooperation between the Emerald Chain and the Federation that Osyraa proposed last week (before she went back to being full-on baddie this week) actually sounded interesting to explore.
Season 4 is in production now
Well that was the wost season ending of a Star Trek season I’ve ever seen, even worse than Picard S1. What an absolute mess of storytelling and complete misunderstanding of Star Trek.
Season 3 was shaping up to be quite good, I thought they finally made it into ‘Trek. But half way through it started to get worse and the last 3 episodes were just Die Hard in space..
Garbage..back to square 1.
Completely agree. The final nail in the coffin for me I think. Saddens me because I thought this was going to be when they got it right. But no. Not even putting this in my own canon now. This is some horrific alt-universe along with Picard and the Kelvinverse.
Really enjoyed Lower Decks though so at least I have that to look forward to but everything else is just a mess and it seems so many can’t see such basic problems with the show. The only place I see positive comments on the show is this site. Anywhere else I see discussions is overwhelmingly negative.
I’m finding that the “kind of people” who enjoyed Lower Decks are the kind of people that aren’t huge fans of Disco and Picard, and the “kind of people” who love Disco and Picard felt Lower Decks was “cheesy, stupid, disgraceful, etc.”
It’s a fascinating consistency. I for one loved Lower Decks and can’t wait for more. And every time a Disco fan calls it stupid, I say to myself “Now you know how we have felt for three years. And… I kinda understand where you’re coming from too”.
I don’t fall into either category. I did not like STD or STP. And I was most disappointed with LDX because I was expecting the most from that show and it failed to deliver on pretty much every level. So far in producing seasons of Trek Secret Hideout is 0 for 5 with with three strikeouts and two weak grounders scoring 1-3 and 3 unassisted.
Damn, sorry to hear that. I was really tickled to have SOMETHING to be worth my CBS subscription. But I do understand if it didn’t resonate with you. It’s a pretty acquired taste and requires a certain suspension of canon worship. I’m usually pretty steadfast in my defense of canon, but LD for me is just a nice way to get away. Like a holodeck program. I wouldn’t call it “canon”, in that I don’t think Star Trek Picard will reference the adventures of the noble USS Cerritos. So it gets a pass from me.
I know Secret Hideout says it’s canon, but they say a LOT of things are canon that I don’t like. At least this one makes me giggle.
Honestly, I don’t care if LDX was canonical or not. There are a few problems but the #1 problem was the lack of humor. There were almost no laughs in this comedy. Honestly, I was hoping it would be clever AND funny but if it wasn’t clever at least be funny. We got neither. In fact, I found that I laughed more at Jet Reno’s VERY brief appearance in season 3 of STD than I did in all 10 episodes of LDX combined. Her “I forgot it already” line produced a greater laugh than anything on LDX. I was expecting much better from McMahon and LDX. Hence, my massive disappointment with it. I honestly never expected much from Picard and I really don’t expect anything from Discovery.
I posted something similar on a reddit thread earlier today. The first half of the season gave me hope that they had finally figured it out, but the back half of the season pretty much just frittered that away.
Maybe bring in Berman as a Creative Consultant lol. Can’t do any worse and he was the man in charge of Trek for 18 years so I’d say he knows a thing or two about what makes it work.
Putting Berman in charge of anything is just going to make it dull. In this case, dull might somehow be better, but still unacceptable.
Even worse than TNG season 2, which was a clip episode??
At least, as a clip episode, it was consistent with what came before. Discovery changed its OWN canon in making Michael dead by Georgiou’s hand before Disco Prime came through. Originally, her ship was lost and she was presumed missing. They can’t even get their own story straight.
It´s really refreshing to read a site review that does not treats Discovery like a “Demon Star Trek” “Destroyer of the franchise!” … uffs… a beam of sunlight! Thank you!
You must be new here… this positivity is to me almost alarming, even though I am usually a defender of the show.
Another immaculate episode for what has been a flawless series. This is the best Star Trek and science fiction show ever made. Kirk who? Michael Burnham is the captain we’ve needed for a long time now (no offense, Saru!) and the way that she has brought out the best in everyone around her — indeed, the galaxy itself — has been nothing short of inspiring. One person can make a difference. One community can change the universe.
People complaining about the interior guts of a fictional starship might have missed the point: this is a fantasy show, after all (it was never science fiction, no matter what Gene Roddenberry and the rest of the Old Guard said. That was always marketing). Have some imagination! It’s supposed to be fun!
Thank you to Secret Hideout for their continued mastery of the medium. Looking forward to the continuing adventures of the Starship Discovery.
Um, no. I hate fantasy and always have. The idea of Star Trek as a “history of the future” has always been part of the appeal.
I LIKE fantasy. But Star Trek is not fantasy and attempts to make it into fantasy are an insult to the name.
Somebody needs to learn how to engage in less hyperbole.
I mean you, in case it’s unclear.
I know the show has people who like it but this…
At first I thought it was a joke post.
It isn’t a joke post?
It’s a joke post or a CBS shill. This site is feeling like foxnews all of a sudden, or one of the newer even lower forms.
Lol – excellent trolling/sh1thousery! I’m not falling into your trap though. I need to put a Tom Hardy Mad Max gif up with “that’s bait!”.
This post is comedic gold. Still chuckling- thanks for this.
Flawless series? Really?
Season 3 had some definite highlights, but I feel the show began taking massive narrative shortcuts with the introduction of Osyraa in “The Sanctuary.” You get the feeling that the writers weren’t quite sure with what to do with her. After being built up as a foreboding threat to the galaxy by Admiral Vance, Osyraa was portrayed as everything from a mustache twirling villain (feeding her nephew to the trance worm), to a more formidable adversary in “Su’kal,” to finally some combination of the two with a “six chambered heart.” However, too much was jammed packed into the last two episodes to make up for a lack of previous character development. We are told to invest in Osyraa’s relationship with Aurellio because she saved him, but this falls flat when Aurellio is genuinely surprised at her cruelty. It’s quite the leap to believe that he has kept his head down for the past 40 years and never realized she wasn’t what he thought she was. This portrayal is further complicated when we learned that the Emerald Chain is a large capitalistic empire with a functioning congress and THE premier scientific research facilities in the galaxy. While interesting on paper, we only see one ship (the Viridian), and Burnham’s voiceover epilogue reveals the entire Chain crumbles the moment she is dead. So much for a threat to the Federation. As a result, much of the stakes for the back half of the season felt incredibly low to me. This was compounded by a lack of any consequences for Osyraa taking control of Discovery, outside of Stamets being angry with Michael for spacing him and leaving Hugh and Co. to die in the nebula. Watching Book and Michael fight across speeding turbo lifts in a Death Star sized *Discovery* interior bordered on fantasy – and was extremely reminiscent to me of fighting Khan on top of the moving vehicle in *Into Darkness*. All of this wouldn’t have stood out as much to me if *anything* of consequence happened to the Bridge Crew fighting to sabotage a nacelle. With the reveal that Owo had free diving experience back on Earth, I expected her to die on a one-way mission, much like working on the reactor in *K-19 The Widowmaker.* Instead, she survives, as does the entire Bridge Crew, despite having zero oxygen remaining and slipping unconscious. The idea that Ensign Tilly would have to order a crew member to their death would have been a great plot thread for Season 4, but the way it played out didn’t give it any “bite.” (Also, why did a commanding officer ask a subordinate to “please” go on a mission rather than ordering them is beyond me). The *one* character that did have any semblance of consequence to it was the DOT-23, who after pulling Owo to safely, was then rebooted by Reno. Even the “red shirt lieutenant” made it out alive and well. Similarly, while I have always expected Michael to make captain at some point, I feel that most of this season was about examining her flaws where we would essentially have to build her back up, similar to season 1 – her own mother’s comments *Unification III*, her actions that got her demoted from XO by Vance/Saru, etc. After all this, I don’t get the feeling she has actually changed though. While she has a better handle on her emotions than say, the Michael of *The Vulcan Hello*, Michael still elects to do things “her way,” and Vance rewards her for it. Buried under all this is some truly compelling stuff and grade A acting by Doug Jones and Bill Irwin. While I was disappointed that a combination of Charlie X/Jean Gray was the source of “the Burn,” at least the stakes here felt deeply personal. Taken by itself, this could have been a solid hour long episode in its own right, albeit simplified. Imagine: *Discovery* picks up a distress call from a Federation ship buried deep in the heart of the Verubin nebula. It has crash landed on a planet hidden somewhere on the inside, and is in danger of breaking down (could even have experimental tech on it, ala *The Pegasus*). Scans report a sole life sign aboard. Saru, Culber, and Michael decide to mount a rescue mission, knowing the risks of radiation poisoning, leaving Tilly/another officer in charge. Much of the same happens, where they find Su’kal living alone in a holo-environment, and are unable to leave the ship until he faces his fears and disables the program. Meanwhile, back on *Discovery*, we play a cat and mouse game to stall for time, as it turns out the crashed ship is within Emerald Chain territory/we are about to violate the terms of an armistice by being there, similar to an… Read more »
Spot on, particularly about the fact that there was no learning experience for Michael whatsoever.
In my mind’s eye, I’m telling myself that the turbolift design was some kind of psychedlic aftereffect of Book’s torture, not the real setup. Utterly idiotic.
And it is a good point that there was literally no growth for the Burnham character. She had no personal challenge to overcome. In fact, the character NEVER had any personal challenge in any season whatsoever. The only time they even brought up one was in season one and that was gone by episode 4.
The character never earned anything that came her way. At least in STID as bad as it was Nu-Kirk still EARNED the chair. Or at least had better learned about the responsibilities that come with it.
It bugs me somewhat that Burnham is supposed to be a role model for kids. Stay true to yourself, do things your way, break every rule, disobey authority, and you’ll be rewarded for it.
I’m all for individuality and speaking up for yourself and defending a position, but I don’t know if the anarchic slant is what I want my kids emulating. Reckless, unilateral action should be tempered with SOME sort of discussion. Maybe learning to make peace with not getting your way once in a while. Right? Am I too Gen X for this mindset?
Wait.. She was ordering her to her death? Didn’t sound that way at all to me. They made it sound like if it worked they would all survive.
And is that breath holding bridge character (have no idea what any of their names are) a human? If so human lung capacity has certainly improved in 300 years. And if so, why was she still able to function and breathe when everyone else passed out? The entire situation made zero sense.
The way I took it, Owo is a human (she mentioned being from a Luddite community on Earth in season 2’s New Eden) who had some experience holding her breath deep sea diving for albacore tuna growing up, which was why she said she had held her breath in the spore lab for 10 minutes.
I’d have to see the scene again, but I assumed that the distance to the nacelle was quite a ways away, everyone was passing out from oxygen deprivation anyway, and only Owo could have a chance to make the trip, especially since the oxygen tank had ran out of air.
Of the bridge crew, Owo has had the most development so far outside of Detmer, but the sudden info dump about her backstory made me wonder if they were going to kill off her character, like they telegraphed with Airiam. While this subverted expectations, I feel the show gave us a number of “no win scenarios” this week, and proceeded to just have everyone win anyway.
It’s just yet another example of bad writing. The idea that one can hold their breath for that long is not impossible. It happens. But they may as well have just had one of them find another breathing device just lying around. That would seem to be more likely. The quick background dump came at an odd time and felt forced and just WAY too convenient. And now we have people thinking she was ordered on a suicide mission. I saw it the other way around. That she had the best chance of surviving since they were all being asphyxiated.
Further, the ability to hold your breath does not mean you breathe less or slower than everyone else. She was doing fine while everyone else was passing out. That made zero sense even if the could hold her breath for 25 minutes!
Even worse, it’s a Starfleet ship! They have zillions of redundancies and emergency equipment for the whole ship, yet they’re all sharing one breather? They could have found some more emergency gear or even space suits… You can see them in various shots throughout the series!
It would have made a ton more sense and been more dramatic if they found ONE breather and it was only enough for one person to make it to the nacelles. Or, one of them was indeed an alien who had a vastly larger lung capacity. I’m not even a professional writer and I just came up with two superior alternatives.
This sort of thing makes me wonder if this group ever gets feedback on their story plots. Based on what I’ve seen I would think the answer is “no”.
Yeah… the conspicuous space suits littered throughout the intersections have always bugged me. Never seen on Trek before, just OUT THERE in the middle of a hallway. And the one time they need them, well, of course there’s not a one to be found.
Why is Tilly wearing red in the photo above, sure she is wearing blue in the episode
Good question. For reviews we use photos from CBS which are taken on set but are not actual screencaps. Maybe there were two costumes or maybe they changed her uni in post for the actual episode. It’s mysterious
Rewatching the episode again it must have been an onset mistake because you can tell it was recolored in post. It looks like they slapped a big green slab on her, it’s missing any definition or shadow on that part of the uniform.
It might not have been a mistake, if she were the first officer she would wear red. It’s possible in post the decision was made to keep Tilly’s placement as first officer in S4 a secret or question and thus they recolored it in post.
I really enjoyed the two previous episodes. This one was awful though! It left nothing in terms of anticipation for season 4. I’m seriously considering turning my Trekkie card in. I might be about done with this franchise.
I didn’t think I would like the finale, but I enjoyed it. I’m glad that the message was made clear. Now, the season makes more sense.
There was a message?
Lol. The message being don’t give people with very little knowledge of science and Star Trek the keys to the franchise?
That is probably the most reasonable takeaway.
The one literally spelled out at the end of the episode?
That was a message? What does being fortunate to talk to two people have to do with anything we have seen the entire season?
The Federation was disconnected from its member worlds, Michael was disconnected from her crew, Adira wad disconnected from Tal, Gray was disconnected from everyone else, Sukal was disconnected from his mom, etc. The importance of connection was obviously a theme of the season.
The Federation had their means of transportation removed. Michael connected with someone on a deeper level than anyone on that ship. I do not know who Adira or Tal are. And Grey was connected with all of the Trill hosts. Not really seeing the disconnect as a theme here.
I loved the revelation that Book could use the spore drive. They set up his being an empath way back in the beginning, but this was still an unexpected development. What a cool surprise!
I loved Saru’s gently guiding Su’kal towards courage. I love Saru SO much, and I think I could face anything with him gently guiding me towards courage. :-)
I wonder if Discovery will have delivered all the dilithium during the season hiatus, or if that delivery will be the premise for Season 4. Delivering dilithium to all the former Federation planets could be a great way of getting the ship to a different planet every week, while still having a thematic connection.
I hate the new uniforms. Gray? Seriously? That’s so ugly and boring. Admittedly, I grew up on TOS’s bright primary colors :-), but I thought Discovery’s existing uniforms were snazzy. I guess they had to change them, since it’s a new century and all, but geeze, GRAY?
I’m loving Wilson Cruz as Culber. He has such sweetness and warmth, with a core of strength underneath. I hope we see a LOT more of Culber next season!
It looks like we get to keep Book! I was afraid they might kill him off, but no, he’s alive. Ajala is a good actor, and he has great chemistry with Martin-Green, so I’m glad we get to keep him.
Owo’s smile lights up the screen! Do anything you can to make that lady smile.
Michelle Paradise was a great addition to the team. The writing was much better this year, and I like what she’s doing. There are things I dislike and things I wish were done better, but compared to Seasons 1 and 2, I think she’s been very much a positive influence.
It did this old Trekkie’s heart good to hear the TOS music at the end! I admit that I teared up.
I’m glad that Doug Jones is filming Season 4, because I wouldn’t want to be without Saru! He’s by far my favorite character, and I just love what Doug Jones does with him. I guess maybe he’ll be first officer once he’s got Su’kal settled on Kaminar? I guess we’ll find out next season! Can’t wait!
I am hopeful that Saru’s character is in every episode and is not left hanging by the wayside. He is my favorite character on the show, and I do not want to see him as XO… he has been there, done that. I like the idea of him being the person to help Su’Kal readjust to the “outside”… but I want him on the show doing Starfleet things just as much or more.
I was okay with Michael becoming Captain. She deserves it, but that is not to say that Saru does not. Doug Jones is far and away the best actor on the series and his ability to portray such nuance in every scene he is in is what makes the show for me.
Yes. I’d say he’s the one who has earned the captaincy. Not Burnham.
I think Saru is going to be either an Admiral or an Ambassador and will be in charge of reestablishing diplomatic relations with former Federation member worlds, so he’ll still be in charge of the mission, but Michael is the ship’s captain.
I agree Saru is by far the best character, and the one that makes Discovery feel like a Star Trek show. I don’t like the way his character has apparently been sidelined, and I’ll be upset if they demote him to Burnham’s XO. His growing into the captaincy was one of the better storylines this season.
Unless he gets promoted to the Admiralty.
He deserved to be the captain of this ship. He earned it. We watched him earn it and grow as a character and overcome hardships and change and evolve, literally and figuratively.
Admiralty, on paper, would be nice. But remember Kirk’s reflection on that promotion. It happened and he hated it because he belonged “out there”. He insisted to Picard, “Don’t let them do that to you”. But Picard didn’t listen. And look how HE turned out.
Poor Saru has just gotten his space legs, and Burnham just swept his hooves right out from under him.
While we don’t always see things the same way Corylea, your comments really line up well with mine.
For me this season lands as an “A-” rating for the season: beginning to exceed expectations, but with room to go to reach the top seasons of previous offerings in the franchise. I do think that the season made sense as a whole, and appreciate that major threads were wrapped up and not abandoned. I don’t look for a season finale cliffhanger, and in this era when the timing of the next season is always uncertain, a clear closure and with the promise of a new beginning is ideal.
I definitely agree with Anthony’s review that some details and polish would make a big difference. Sometimes just a teensy bit more verbal exposition and technobabble would both lay pipe for later developments, raise the stakes and make things more coherent.
For example, during her message to her mother, Michael could have been heard saying that she’s transmitting and entrusting Ni’Var with the Burn data from their encounter with Su’Kal in case they can never get it to the Federation.
Or Tilly could have asked the command DOT-23 to stay back to protect itself when they were moving up the corridors.
Somehow, I feel that the showrunners and writers are overcompensating for criticisms of exposition dumps and technobabble on previous shows, and have lost some of the Trek superglue that holds the franchise together.
Corylea, I agree with everything you’ve said here! “100,” as the kids say ;^)
The USS Discovery’s infinite volume turbo shaft is absolutely ridiculous.
Yes. The TARDIS comparison is apt here. And it IS ridiculous. If I hadn’t already not been taken out of it by the bad characters and silly situations this would have.
It is hard to rate S3 overall because some of the stories and shows were very good and other stories were terrible. I liked the opening episodes with Michael and Booker as well as how Discovery made it to the 32nd century. I really liked the backstory for Adira and Grey. Ditto for Georgiou’s backstory.
As for the finale, sorry but the whole Ossyra vs Burnham and the Federation was IMHO terribly written and a sad waste of a potentially great storyline. I could go through at least 4 or 5 absolutely horrendous examples of story telling and plot holes from tonight’s show alone. On the positive side, even though I hated the cause of The Burn, the actual story of how Saru, Adira and Doc Culber rescued SuKal was IMO actually pretty good.
Finally, the final scene was great (too bad I had to put the Ossyra vs Michael story completely out of my mind).
New uniforms, a new Captain, and a Federation science vessel with a crew primarily made up of young scientists exploring new worlds in the 32nd century – in some ways that sounds like a great place to start season one, but of course we wouldn’t have Strange New Worlds, Short Treks or the new Section 31 Georgiou show and no Picard or Lower Decks either.
So even though, “it’s been a long disjointed and bumpy road getting from S1E1 to here”, it was worth it. Looking forward to S4, Picard S2 and S1 of SNW.
Btw no fair – you can’t help but like the end credits musical score!
23 weeks of new Trek is now at an end.
Stay healthy and safe – Live long and prosper everyone!!
Michael the Savior went from mutineer to savior, and now has her own ship, just a few weeks after seemly considering leaving Discovery, and now with her BF in tow, Such drama. The futre has been very very good for Michael. Overall good episode, especially by Discovery standards.
I still can’t stand the crazy turbo lifts. It’s like the ship is just a shell and all this open space inside for goofy turbo-lifts. Makes no sense, looks cheezy, like something Star Wars would do. The ship is supposed to have a structure. not the vast space for all these tubo cars that lead to nowhere from nowhere. Where is that giant space even located on the ship? The ship itself is fairly flat. There isn’t really a place to have this ginormous vast open place. Please don’t ever use it again. What’s wrong with a turbo shaft? every Enterprise had them.
It also seems like the challenge of recreating the spore drive is solved. Just need more of Book’s kind in starfleet. Again, makes no sense that no one figured that out in a 1000 years???, that noone else invented a spore drive? really?? Often times new tech is developed in different locations around the same time, with no connection among them (radio, television, the automobile, the airplace). Why didn’t that happen here? … oh I forget, the Federation is a socialist state that kills innovation. No money = no incentive to create. Of course the capitalist, Chain scientist figured it out in a couple hours. oops
To me that’s a HUGE problem with the plot of the show. In 900 years not just that they couldn’t figure out the spore drive but they were STILL reliant on the nonrenewable resource of dilithium for their warp? Are you kidding me? I just don’t buy it. Plus, Osyra was using transwarp conduits that seemed to get them places nearly as fast as the spore drive. So what do they need dilithium for?
The entire plot for the season was one giant hole from the first episode on. And made it really hard to buy the entire situation they were in.
You still need warp drive to get to the conduits, and once you’re inside you risk being crushed by debris. The transwarp conduits are useful in an emergency, but they wouldn’t be a practical replacement for warp drive throughout the galaxy.
Where was it stated that you need warp drive to enter a transwarp conduit? In the past all they seemed to do was some sort of technobabble with the deflector dish or something and that created an entry way. The debris thing was never a thing before but even if for some goofball reason it is now you do not need warp drive to get around it. Plus, just put up your shields. No biggie. And it seems that Osyria was using it as a practical replacement for warp drive. And it seemed to work nearly as fast as jumping with the spore drive. I feel like this has all been said before…
Discovery is a complicated thing, I feel. It sometimes tries to do too much and comes up a bit short. But it is a good series, overall. The second season was better than the first, and the third, in my opinion, was better than the second.
As regards the season final, I liked the way that Stamets reacted when Burnham stepped onto the Bridge as captain for the first time. I loved the performances that Bill Irwin and Doug Jones gave, their scenes together were very nicely done.
Looking forward to season four.
The show is still a mess in a LOT of ways, but I do agree with you, at least every season feels more improved than the last. It’s sort of on par to how I felt about Enterprise in its third season (but I still like that show a lot more than Discovery).
But this season has made me a lot more excited about it although I was pretty excited about it in the first half of season 2. But the new setting is just more fun in general. And I’m looking forward to see how they start to rebuild the Federation.
SphereDot-23 > Zora. An amazing moniker!
The writing is terrible. They need to hire a new showrunner. One that is competent. Sad how far this franchise has fallen.
Agree with the writing. At this point I feel Secret Hideout has been an absolute failure when it comes to Star Trek. That deal needs to be ripped up immediately.
I know there are fans of the show as is but maybe with new blood we can get something halfway decent out of it? I know they are handicapped by the characters themselves but better BTS people might be able to mine SOMETHING out of that pile of dirt.
The writing is definitely still the weakest part of the show.
Meh. It didn’t suck as hard as the rest of the season. But it still suffers from a lot of problems. Problems that will NEVER get solved so long as they retain the same characters and behind the scenes staff.
I still think jumping to the 32nd century was a terrible idea. I feel like the tech just wasn’t advanced enough to be believable. I’ve said it before but that is the problem with going that far forward and why when it has been done in the past they come up with some reason for society to regress.
The turbolift stuff was just, well… Dumb. If they do that all that empty space, why bother to pump air into it?
What good do the sphere data do? They left off the last episode saying “Let’s retake the ship” then proceeded to be of no value whatsoever. At least it explains why the data let the ship get taken to begin with.
What was that wall of cubes Burnham was pushed into? I had no idea but Burnham acted like she was heading to certain death. Whatever it was her reaction would seem to have been the wrong one as she found a gun in there and just walked out no problem. Maybe Osyra had no idea what it was either. Which put her at the same level as the audience.
Unlike others last week I didn’t have a real issue with the cause of the burn. The burn itself was dumb therefore it was reasonable the cause was dumb too. Low expectations meant not being disappointed.
And honestly, I still have no idea why they even need the dilithium. They have the spore drive. It’s 930 years later. If they STILL haven’t figured out how it worked by then, well here’s a working one to reverse engineer. Further, Osyra was using transwarp condiuts. So why can’t star fleet?
Anyway… The show has more plot holes that a Marvel movie. To be fair.. Overall it was still better than season 2. But as I said at the end of last season, if it continues improving at this rate they may have a mediocre show by season 8.
They can take as long as they like to get the next season out. My hope is riding with Strange New Worlds. But I’m trying to curb my expectations.
Is this the longest single episode (61 minutes) apart from The Cage (63)?
I think that “Brother” (the season 2 premiere of Discovery) was slightly longer. But this was definitely quite long for the series.
It was certainly one of the longer ones! On that note… When DISCO was in development, I suppose I took the words “we don’t have the time constraints of OTA broadcast shows” to mean we might get much longer than normal episodes every time – which would have been great since there are only ~13 per season. Well damn if the pendulum didn’t swing in the opposite direction of less content – a whole lot less :/ Oh well, better something than nothing, I suppose.
This was a very well-made and entertaining episode from an acting/effects/editing point of view. It makes no sense whatsoever, though. It continues to be a near-complete squandering of all the talent involved, because the people writing it simply do not know what they’re doing.
And yet, I did admittedly enjoy watching this episode, which I stayed up for (after watching the new episode of “The Stand” first) as a pick-me-up after seeing the final electoral-college vote finally be cast. It won’t have the slightest replay value for me, though, like most of “Discovery.” Which, granted, I’ve never rewatched any of; I’m sure I will someday, but it’s not going to be anytime soon.
I rewatched Season 2 leading up to Season 3 and enjoyed it, although the final two episodes had some severely tortured logic to them.
I like The Stand, but its jumpy storytelling could be tough to overcome if you’ve never read the book. I miss that we didn’t get the “God’s Tom” hypnosis scene this time, and I was disappointed that we didn’t get the Star Spangled Banner scene, either (it became America the Beautiful, which just isn’t the same.)
Did you catch Stephen King’s cameo in the Hemingford Home poster?
Yep, that made me chuckle.
I have a question about Owosekun (who I love, by the way, and wish could be on a better Trek series) and the nacelle. How does that work with the idea that the ship’s nacelles are removable? They’re just floating in space, connected by magnetism or whatever, but somebody can also walk into them? What am I missing there?
I’m not 100% sure but it looks like the nacelles attach when the ship uses its spore drive or goes to warp. There have been several shots where the nacelles moved closer to the rest of the ship. Then again, with programmable matter a walkway could simply occur when they need it.
Michael as captain makes sense and I love it. However, this season was absurdly bad. Loved season 1 and 2. This season was a mess. Meh.
I don’t think Vance not deferring to Kovich rules out Kovich being Federation President. If anything, Kovich being President is probably the only reason he’s near that combat situation at all, as we’ve seen no other indication he’s a member of Starfleet.
The Federation President in the 32nd century may not have authority over Starfleet, so there’s no reason why Vance necessarily has to defer to him.
I only enjoyed two things in the episode: the uniforms are super cool and Burnham’s cute new catchphrase, ”lets fly”.
The catchphrase is one thing I didn’t like. Not because of the words per se, but because so much was made of Saru not finding a catchphrase. It came across as smug, and kind of I’ve got this planned, so I’m already the better captain. If they hadn’t made so much of Saru not finding one, I could have lived with it.
I won’t even bother making a whole list of issues I had with this episode… Many others here have pointed most of them out. But my biggest problem with this show is that it’s purely action and spectacle and fantasy. Even the over-emotionality from everyone and Burnham’s superior attitude are second to this. The writers and producers just don’t seem to care if anything makes sense, as long as things move along fast enough so you don’t have time to question it. They literally expect the audience to turn their brains off while they watch this. It’s very frustrating and disappointing. I’m sure this makes me sound old and crotchety, but I miss the days when they had boundaries and structure for the writers, and somebody could actually say ‘you can’t do this’, because these writers seem encouraged to dump in any dumb idea that pops into their heads. If it doesn’t make sense, they just twist things or ignore any explanation or accountability.
And I can’t understand why they can’t afford better writing if the budget per ep is over $8 million.
You can’t simply buy a good script. There is no direct correlation between budget and quality of writing. Just look at all the poorly written big blockbuster movies.
Yes. This is more a function of who is responsible for hiring the writers. As the person who runs everything that responsibility should fall to some degree on Kurtzman. After that it’s whoever is mainly in charge of that particular show.
Thank you, Discovery. 🖖
To me it feels like it took Discovery three seasons to finally become what it should’ve been in the first place: a Star Trek show about exploration set in the post-Nemesis future. I’m way more enthusiastic about the premise for S4 than that of any in the previous seasons.
S4 premise positions Discovery as a super-fast, high value cargo freighter
And yet one line of dialogue can put them months in the future and the cargo assignment well behind them.
This ‘930 years in the future’ thing seems, technologically, more like a decade or so after ‘Picard,’ judging by the sheer lack of technological advances that 1000 years should have brought. Prime-universe Scotty had already begun work on trans-warp beaming (which works), but 10 centuries later, it’s still ships and the same type of gas. It’s also a military-inspired Starfleet with no philosophical advancement or any type of enlightenment which would have either moved humanity forward, or at least, made it noticeably different in some way.
Essentially I feel the future world of the 3000s, is it now in Discovery? It should look like the world of Star Wars. That’s what they should be going for in terms of look and feel.
That’s a general problem of setting sci-fi far in the future: You cannot really project future technological developments beyond maybe a few decades. It’s also really hard to project societal changes far into the future. Just look at a lot of sci fi movies/TV from the 20th century that made predictions for the early 21st century. Some of that happened much earlier than expected, other predictions were completely off. Once you add extraterrestrials the future becomes even more unpredictable.
Star Trek has always had some elements that seemed kind of impossible at the time, while also featuring a lot of technology and culture that still felt very familiar.
I would say that starships are an integral part of Star Trek. Some would argue that the ships are a main character themselves. You would completely lose that if people would suddenly just beam everywhere.
As for still using the same type of gas: Humans have used wood as a source of fuel for tens of thousands of years, and we are still using it today. It’s not our only source of fuel anymore, but Discovery has also shown other forms of propulsion.
You have echoed my core issue with season 3. Which seems to be opposite with an issue from the other seasons. First the show looked WAY too futuristic than the era they were supposed to be in (assuming you believe them when they say the show is prime universe). Now everything looks like it belongs about 700 years earlier than the time they say they are. In 900 years they ought not be using dilithium. Might have gone better if they made up some other system for Kelpian boy to destroy. In fact I KNOW it would have gone better because they could make up their own rules for how that substance worked. Instead they were still using 1000 year old technology to get around.
Not buying it.
In that pic with the crew on the bridge in their new uniforms, Tilly is is in red but in the episode, she’s clearly in blue. I only noticed because I was trying to spot on the show who else was wearing command red but of the entire bridge crew, only captain Michael is in red.
In fact, if you take a look when Tilly is standing in line, you can tell the blue on her tunic is actually photoshopped in. As if they originally filmed the scene wanting her to be Michael’s number 1 but changed their minds in post production.
I wish they had retained the legacy Discovery uniforms. This horrid grey color is not at all the thing. Deepen it to charcoal? Change the main color to deep navy? Black?
ANYTHING BUT THIS AWFUL SOULLESS GREY my god it’s awful
Black is way too “Gestapo” for my taste. Darker gray works, though.
The cut kind of reminds me of the maroons, but the colour could stand to be darker (First Contact/latter DS9 grey) and the division stripes more narrow. A lot more narrow.
Vulture (New York Magazine) gives the finale 1 out of 5 stars, you know, F minus minus minus: “Last week, I posited that the series might be trying its hand in Deep Space Nine territory… Instead, we’ve chosen Hero Shoots Big Bad, Saves Day. (We’ve even replicated the exact same chaos of the season two finale…) The wicked witch is dead, which, as we all know, means the vast, vertically integrated empire she spearheaded — the one whose mercantiles dominate half the galaxy — has immediately disintegrated…
We want to believe that a hero will save us, that simply voting a fascist out of office will end fascism. Discovery’s third season finale has tweeted, ‘We are better than this,’ and then signed off. None of these platitudes are true. They are empty, and perpetuating their emptiness hurts us all…
Stubborn, begrudging stuffiness is what made Vance interesting, charming even. But the show’s insistence on saddling everyone with the exact same emotional range has flattened him, too, in the end…
Look, Star Trek isn’t a successful fantasy world because it gives us easy solutions… Star Trek is at its best when it tells us the truth, that even unified under a vision of a better future, the road to get there will be messy and unpleasant…
Burnham’s monologue at the end of the episode tells us that ‘there is a lot of work to do,’ and ‘it will take time.’ But the larger series is showing us something different. Whatever work is being done to dismantle a corrupt, semi-legitimate oligarchy, one that has addicted huge swathes of the galaxy to its brand of capitalism — including entire global economies operating on literal slavery — is currently in danger of being swept under the rug, in favor of expensive action sequences, overindulgent pathos, and cardboard ‘just trust us, it’s happening’ resolutions…”
I hope they back up a little bit from the “Emerald Chain is falling apart” thing. Because the capitalistic home of scientific advances versus the Federation looked like an interesting ongoing plot point. No more big villain stuff [after a promising negotiation with Admiral Vance, Osyraa suddenly turns back into a cardboard villain], I just want to see the trade-offs the Federation has to make with the source of great tech. How do those two systems reconcile?
Space Dot Com finale review: “When you do look back at the past 13 episodes, it’s very hard to detect much sense of underlying continuity; characters radically change from one installment to the next, the style of production changes and the pace is uneven… It feels like a large group of writers got split up into 13 separate smaller groups and then all sent to different rooms to each work on their respective episodes with only the most minimal of guidelines, and weren’t allowed to get together and share their thoughts or ideas.”
IGN finale review: “bloated and somehow superfluous.”
Bugger him saying Sara was a bad captain. That was the best thing of season 3.
I meant Saru. This comment editing sucks.
Saru as a mentor, friend, ambassador (in peace time) or fatherly figure is great.
Saru as a strong commander in combat and leader with difficult crew members is bad.
I don’t necessarily agree but I don’t think such a thing is all that bad. It would be good to see him improve his command skills. And I find his situation and journey far more interesting that Burnham’s. What they did with that character was awful.
BTW, I can’t say I understand the rationale for festooning Captain Burnham like Robert E. Lee, or more appropriately, Captain W. W. Leake.
She’s space Horatio Hornblower. They’ve not taken the time to explain that to us, though.
For the most part, Kurtzman Trek has been ridiculous, especially Discovery. Season 3 was slightly better than what came before, but that’s not nearly enough. The sub-plot on the dilithium planet, which was actually the main plot, felt the most like classic Star Trek, and Osyraa in control of the Discovery was actually pretty good—reminded me a bit of some Voyager stories. (But why kill her off? At least she had some potential!) And while I have to admit that (due to the obtrusive promotion) I had initially thought that by adding Adira & Gray the filmmakers were just pandering to the Church of Woke, they’re doing something substantial with it, and I want to see more of it, and I want to see more of Gray, e.g. by them using holo tech and something like the Doctor’s mobile emitter. But all the rest was just plain stupid. Slapped-on over-the-top emotionality totally uncharacteristic of a dedicated Starfleet crew, mindless action, grade school fantasy mistaken for hard SciFi, the (it seems always inevitable) chaotic space battle, obnoxious style choices like that rolling camera, no time to breathe, not even in sequences that needed it (during the “sub”-plot), and, to top it all off, the turbolift system, which (aside from the dumb action associated with it) was so mindblowingly stupid, it’s hard to put it words. Do they think Star Trek fans are dimwits? What’s wrong with these Hollywood people? Too much coke on the job? I know he’s from the JarJar Abrams school, but Kurtzman still could have led the franchise down a more fitting path. And what’s up with those new uniforms? Are they all German now?! The two main problems, however, are the inept music score, and Burnham, of course, who they still haven’t managed to form into something distinct and compelling. They need to find a solution for Burnham fast, otherwise this show will not be sustainable, and it would be a waste of Martin-Green’s talent. PS: hoverchair doc needs to stay… at least something of potential from the Osyraa arc that was left standing at the end. (Pardon the pun.)
“ I had initially thought that by adding Adira & Gray the filmmakers were just pandering to the Church of Woke,”
And your initial thought was 100% correct. Regardless if the characters worked out or not of if you ended up liking or disliking what they did to them. That was still the reason why they were there.
Personally, I hated the reason they were there. But was OK with with most of what they did with them. The only things I didn’t care for was her extreme knowledge of everything engineering (maybe explainable by the memories of the other Trill) and Gray being a hologram and able to leave the sim. Or at least be able to look outside the sim. Small issues, to be sure.
We have a fantasy world with faster-than-light drive, transporters, nanotechnology, symbionts, empaths, telepaths, holodecks, quantum slipstream tunnels, parallel dimensions, programmable matter, and sentient data, but the thing that pushes it into unbelievability for you is… nonbinary people?
Who…you know…actually really exist? Now, on Earth…and likely have always been part of our population whether we acknowledged them or not?
Celebrating ‘infinite diversity in infinite combinations’ is kind of the whole deal of Trek. Which is supposed to get us to expand our minds and lose bigotry.
Nonbinary people are part of the diversity of the human species.
Trek has only sort of acknowledged non-hetero gender identities and/or sexuality in an oblique way up to date. In the same way that the original Trek broke barriers with a unified, multiracial, multinational bridge crew, Trek today is showing more of the diversity of humanity.
To greatly oversimplify: Gender as one axis on the chart goes from male to female and in the middle sits “neither.” Your physical body may exhibit gender characteristics along that spectrum as well (and intersex people exist too.). As we now know, people are born ‘knowing’ they are one way, but their body or assigned gender doesn’t match and it causes them great stress. It’s not made up, it’s just never really been identified until now.
Sexuality – which is separate from gender – is a whole bunch of different things. Even if we restrict our view to “cis hetero” people, no two people or couples are into the same things. Now imagine that not as a simple line from A to B and more of a 3D point cloud. It is very complex and everyone is different.
Star Trek acknowledging and representing nonbinary individuals isn’t pandering – like what, there’s some great huge wealthy nonbinary audience they need to reach for advertisers? It’s exploring and recognizing a segment of the real world, and transposing a story of self-discovery into science fiction, just like Star Trek has always done.
A human character bonded with a Trill symbiont is a huge metaphor for feeling like you’re living a lie, occasionally realizing you may have aspects of yourself that even you are not aware of, or that you repress, and that it causes you great difficulty, stress, and pain.
Once newly integrated with their multiple past lives, Adira has to figure out who they are in this newly reconfigured sense of self, and it becomes clear to them in the moment that being called ‘She’ doesn’t fit anymore. So they ask to be called by a neutral term.
It is an example of Star Trek doing what it has always done: Transpose people’s issues from today and show them within a science fiction allegory.
It was only one episode and maybe a couple of scenes, out of 3 seasons (42 hours, roughly). You would begrudge nonbinary people this microsecond of mainstream recognition and acceptance?
Let’s go back in time and digitally replace Uhura and Sulu and make Chekov into Dave Chekovski, a guy from Chicago who’s into Da Bears, because that too was pandering to the race-mixers and godless commies, darn it!
You wrote a great deal on a false premise.
Not going to hold your hand and spoon feed you here. Let’s see if you yourself can figure out where you went wrong. I’m wagering you won’t be able to figure it out.
ML31, could you please give it a rest.
Really feeling the stridency in your views since the summer; whereas before I quite enjoyed engaging with you on this board as part of a mix of different perspectives.
Give what a rest? Correcting people who draw VERY wrong conclusions about posters? What is it exactly about my response that bothers you?
Are you going to tell people like Fred to give “it” (whatever “it” is) a rest too?
Well, it’s pretty clear that LGBTQ people and storylines about LGBTQ existence gross you out. Don’t they?
So you use the “I’m not prejudiced, I just want GOOD STORIES!!!” argument like hundreds of others have done before you.
And people see through that whisper-thin excuse, and are calling you on intolerant views.
I mean, “Church of Woke?” Talk about virtue-signalling.
That’s like a Bat-Signal for people to start piling on with the entire slew of RW nonsense about being redpills and how you’re fighting the baby-eating Hollywood Socialists™, and straight white men are an endangered species!!!
Which is bunk, but dangerous bunk that inspires the feebleminded cultists to buy guns and shoot up Congress.
That is why we are intolerant of intolerance. It leads to the destruction of civil society.
“Well, it’s pretty clear that LGBTQ people and storylines about LGBTQ existence gross you out. Don’t they?”
No. That’s not clear at all. There is nothing whatsoever in my comment to lead one to conclude that. To immediately run to THAT conclusion (among the least likely ones, at that) tells a lot more about your prejudiced views than anything else.
“So you use the “I’m not prejudiced, I just want GOOD STORIES!!!””
I never used that line. But just read it back. Tell me what is wrong with that sort of thinking? The fact is it’s actually more dangerous and insidious to immediately assume for no reason other than a disagreement or misunderstanding that people are intolerant. Jumping to bad conclusions too fast get’s a lot of people in a lot of trouble. Especially these days. That is the real “virtue signaling” you are referring to.
There can indeed be good stories with any kind of character. So again, it’s pretty unenlightened to run to that dark place you did. Further, I said I was OK with the characters and what they did with them. I only objected to the obvious reason they were there to begin with.
I truly hope you now see where the mistake was in your original response.
ML31, forgive me for going dark, but it’s been that kind of week, and it was unfair of me to project things onto you that aren’t accurate.
We all want good stories. We all want to see ourselves reflected in the world, too.
Yes, it’s obvious that Blu & Ian were cast specifically because of who they are, and their storyline is a slight sci-fi projection of real-world issues faced by LGBTQ people.
I don’t think it’s a stunt and I don’t think it’s pandering (to whom, again?). It’s more like, well, we have these characters and stories in mind and maybe the best person to portray this human with a Trill symbiont, to understand that struggle, is someone who themselves have struggled with their identity.
Like, Culber and Stamets are out, and normalized, they know who they are, they represent themselves, even as it’s groundbreaking to have a canon gay couple in Trek, we don’t see them in the context of being young, unsure, or questioning their gender/sexuality. They are established.
Their story is one of a professional married couple whose relationship has been tested because of their various adventures, just like any couple in Trek. But they understand the struggle and that’s why I think Stamets in particular has become an adoptive parent.
Adira and Gray are teenagers or at most very young adults. Adira has a huge identity crisis and trauma caused by the death of their boyfriend, and then having the symbiont that contains the essence of their boyfriend implanted into them, and then having all these memories surface that they’re not sure truly belong to them or not.
And through that process, they learn to start accepting it and becoming someone new that is more than the sum of the parts.
It’s a very touching and sensitive allegory for not just coming out, but for the experience of feeling like you’re fighting your own body (dysphoria), or realizing you don’t fit into accepted categories.
It’s a very positive message. Being visible, and accepted visibly on a mainstream TV show means a lot to people who are struggling with their identity in real life. Given the suicide rate among LGBTQ youth and trans youth in particular, sending a message of “this is difficult but it gets better” could be life-saving.
It’s entirely within the tradition of Star Trek casting. They don’t cast main characters blindly, they cast them purposefully. They are both a comment on, and a contrast to, the times we live in.
Nichelle Nichols was cast *because* she is Black, George Takei was cast *because* he is Asian, at a time when Jim Crow was just barely gone, race riots were happening in Watts and Detroit, and some WWII vets would never be able to see a man of Japanese origin as a ‘real American’.
The decision to make Sisko a strong, single black father in the 90s, when the crack epidemic and ginned-up charges and three-strikes laws were depriving Black families of fathers… and show he was a strong, smart and passionate, multidimensional person and an excellent parent, was a conscious choice.
Making Janeway a woman was a conscious choice. A complex, often contradictory character who was very visibly the Captain, a trained professional, a leader, a scientist, very much a woman but never saddled with “mom” tropes, thrown into an incredibly challenging situation where she continually had to make hard choices, and still uphold Starfleet values – at a time when women were (and are) struggling to break through glass ceilings, being taken seriously, choosing careers – so many women have been inspired by her to actually go into STEM careers it’s amazing.
So I guess, to cap this off, it might seem very different but I don’t think for a minute they cast Blu and Ian as some sort of “woke stunt,” but purposefully, both because they were the best choice of actors for this nuanced storyline, and also because it is purposeful representation when there isn’t a lot of it on TV generally.
Stupid huge space wasted for turbo lifts. 900 years into the future they could intraship transport. No need for turbo lifts unless you need it for a scene where characters need to interact.
In a earlier episode, Linus was using his new personal transporter, zipping in and out through different areas of the ship
May as well make the ship the size of, say, a 1960s British Police box.
I thought the episode overall was…OK.
Pretty by the numbers and kind of predictable. But oddly it’s definitely the best season finale of the three. That’s not saying a lot considering I didn’t like the last two much but it’s something. ;)
What I like:
I did love seeing them in their new uniforms! The ugly ass band uniforms are GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And this was the one thing that I predicted that actually came true and said that we would see the new uniforms on them in the last episode of the season. And it makes it very clear that they are officially part of the 32nd century for good (YAY). It was also the last reminder of the 23rd century era outside of the ship itself. And that’s been so refitted it’s basically a different ship now.
They actually resolved everything in the season fairly well. Certainly waaaaay better than how they wrapped up Picard. Even if a lot of it was pretty weak overall (more on that later), but they dotted all their i’s and crossed their t’s. And it was nice it wasn’t a cliffhanger. I thought that was going to happen but just the opposite.
Loved that next season will be about the rebuilding of the Federation (which I also predicted…but that one wasn’t very hard ;)). And yes, maybe it will actually be about exploration!!!!! Who thought that was possible? ;)
Yeah that was basically all that I liked.
What I didn’t like:
How big is that damn ship??? How does 88 people keep it going? There were only 83 people on the NX-01 but that ship really felt small and cramped. Discovery seems to be the size of the E-D, based on that ridiculous turbo lift scene. Were they floating through the Discovery or the Death Star? Did we just see the engine room for the first time? It looked like something out of Transformers.
The entire Emerald Chain/Osyraa plot line was so bland and boring. And she just became another mustache twirling villain. And then she died in the most boring way as well. Its like they put no real thought into the character. And then once they kill her off then we are to believe it all just died over night. I don’t think it’s that easy. The Orange circus clown president is definitely done now since the dumbass attempted an actual coup that got people killed. But even if he is gone soon (and hopefully in jail not long after), there are still going to be people to sort of replace him. We aren’t going to just get rid of the ideology over night just because their leader is sort of gone. I would think the same for the Emerald Chain, but why do I care? They sucked anyway. There could’ve just been more I guess.
The Burn still sucked. Utterly disappointed that’s what they came up with. It was a nice ending for Saru I guess but the whole thing is just eye rolling to me. Not as bad as the Red Angel reveal….but close enough.
It all wrapped up WAY too easily. So they finally talked Sai Ku into shutting down the holodeck and that’s it? As I; said, kill Osyraa and done. They tried a little bit of suspense pretending the bridge crew were done for but I knew none of them were going anywhere. It was nice Owo got her own scene at least. But it all just felt too convenient and easy. But at least the action wasn’t as over the top like last season finale.
Captain Burnham…yeah. For the record I don’t hate it, but it just feels a bit odd after we seen this woman’s rank yo-yo for three seasons now. So she went from Commander to First officer back down to specialist to now Captain all in one season? But on a show level it makes sense. This is clearly one of Fuller other ideas that just didn’t pan out. He wanted someone not at the top of command but still the star. But the problem is it’s hard to make her lower rank but still be involved in all of the action all the time. And it is nice to see the third woman captain leading a show (after Janeway and Freeman).
Overall I did like this season of Discovery and easily the best season by far. It’s not saying a lot and I know many people here still think the show sucks, but I really do feel it’s going in the right direction at least. I love the new time period, the stories are feeling more like classic Star Trek and there is so much potential they can do with it now.
As Phlox would say, ‘Optimism!’
Bless you for hanging in there and providing your input, Tiger. I’ve read every review of every episode this season and all comments and can honestly say I don’t feel like I missed anything. This show was a disaster in seasons 1 & 2, imo, and I read nothing here to convince me s3 was any better. The Burnham Show just isn’t for me and I’m ok with that. And I didn’t miss paying for CBSAA either. Keep up the good work, and I’ll keep watching Mandalorian and good Trek reruns.
I appreciate that man! I am definitely liking the show more but also acknowledge why others aren’t, because it is still deeply flawed. Obviously I don’t think it’s anywhere close to a perfect show, just improved over the first two seasons. So I get it. But for me, I have to watch lol. But same time there is so much Trek out there today, no one has to watch everything either, so I think that’s fine. And you shouldn’t watch something you think is just bad, especially now that we are paying for it.
And I did exactly that after the first season of Enterprise. I thought the show sucked that much that I stopped bothering to watch it after loyally watching Trek for 15 straight years. So I was certainly where you were after that show’s first season. I went back later and grew to love it, even if it was still my least favorite at the time. But when I didn’t love it, I stopped supporting it. And I wasn’t paying for it either.
I just miss hearing your thoughts on the show personally. I want to hear all sides, love or hate it, that’s what brings me here. Just don’t be a jerk about it no matter how you feel.
Maybe you’ll give it a chance later and your mind will be changed.
Overall, the Emerald Chain wasn’t very interesting. Basically, Osyraa was an excuse to get in some action sequences. The one moment it did become more interesting was during the negotiation with Admiral Vance when it was suggested that the Chain is actually more than just a bunch of thugs. Unfortunately, she went back to full cartoon villain mode in the final episode.
Maybe with Osyraa out of the way, the Federation can indeed open up negotiations with (what’s left of) the Emerald Chain in Season 4 and maybe even bring that interplanetary alliance into a rebuilt Federation. Otherwise, Osyraa gone could lead to a power vacuum and different groups formerly under her control fighting to take over.
Yes all that is certainly possible. And I thought the idea of it was fine. In fact, I theorized early on that with the Federation gone, it would be interesting to see all these marginalized groups now taking over former pockets of Federation space and see how the show deal with that. It didn’t have to be the Dominion, Xindi or the Borg wrecking havoc, but smaller groups who were now trying to take advantage of the situation.
I just think how it was executed was pretty bad. But if they continued the idea next season, they can still improve on it. And yes there could simply be different factions of the Emerald Chain with their own leaders so I’m not against seeing them again. Just hopefully it’s done much better. But at the moment they are at the level of Kazon and Suliban of bad one dimensional villains.
Oh, don’t get me wrong: If they decide to bring back the Emerald Chain I certainly hope that it will feature more nuanced characters. I don’t want a repeat of season 3.
Don’t get your hopes up. Secret Hideout is still in charge.
I mean it’s clear the sole purpose of Osyraa and the Chain in season 3 was to be an obstacle to solving the Burn mystery and provide an opportunity for action (because the Burn itself was surprisingly action-free).
Going forward, they could weave the Chain into their “rebuilding the Federation” arc.
But yeah, it is almost certain that they will want to have big action in season 4 as well, and they may not take the time to develop it as more than just a vehicle for action.
Personally I don’t have an issue with big set pieces. They can be fun. But action sequences with little logic or reason behind them and when they are dealing with flat uninteresting characters it pretty much takes all the stakes out of the scene. Then an action sequence becomes dull.
I didn’t find the action sequence with Osyraa interesting or suspenseful either.
I don’t just think that it was the choreography or that it was derivative, it was also something about the camera angles.
Whatever the faults of the first season, the action pieces, were often better.
The remnants of the Chain and the broad and deep anti-Federation sentiments could and should provide a nuanced backdrop for the remaining four seasons in this series (as planned).
This would actually be a fresh setting: neither the idealized situation of TNG, the wartime setting of DS9 or the uncertainty of TOS. Just a fractured galactic society that needs rebuilding and perhaps the hope of new exploration beyond the galactic barrier.
I agree that this could provide a nuanced and interesting story. Based on the show so far I don’t have high hopes for a nuanced, multi-season story arc though. But never give up hope completely ;-)
I have no idea what that episode was about, and frankly, I am not invested enough to care! Bangs, noise, lights and smoke, however dynamic, do not make a story intriguing!
It all collapsed like a bad soufflé. The idea of the armistice was intriguing: but when asked to sacrifice she went back to moustache twirling? They need to stop trying to wrap everything up in ten episodes: there was enough meat for more.
It really was crap Trek! Like others have noted, there is nothing appealing at all about any of the characters, Saru being the exception.
Perhaps it was the amount of beer I had drunk, but can somebody explain what the last two episodes were about, because I really have no idea. I am still confused about the cause of the Burn. Just so much padding around silly ideas.
My advice… Don’t think about it too much. You’ll just end up hating it more.
Loved hearing the TOS theme again over the end credits. In fact, I hope that will be the official theme for Strange New Worlds!
Kinda hate that we suffered through an entire season of cliched and plodding ghost boyfriend scenes and Ian Alexander’s mediocre acting just to get to a trite scene making the metaphor about being seen explicit. It’s a wonderful message to infuse into any show, but good god, could they be any more on the nose about it?
paragraph 2 above is a perfect lovely spot-on metaphor…
I liked the season overall but I can’t dispute your metaphor much. The show still feel badly written. But I’m just happy after three seasons it FINALLY has a focus at least. But yes having a focus doesn’t automatically mean a better written show either.
I’d say they have finally decided what they are. If you like it, you are fortunate because it does not look like the show will change much from this unless new people are put in charge. If you don’t and are a Trek fan, you are in the position where you pretty much have to hope things change at the top. It’s like being a fan of a ball club that had a terrible GM. You know that as long as this person is in charge the team will suck. And if they happen to have a good year once it will mostly be due to blind luck.
Spot on assessment!
Why did they need to eject the warp core in the first place and risk their own distruction? Couldn’t they’ve jumped anyway? Or did I miss something there?
I like the new uniforms, I hate the Tardis inside of Discovery and I was moved when Roddenberry was cited and the original Trek theme was played with the credits.
Yeah, that doesn’t make sense to me, either. I guess they wanted to destroy the Viridian, but I’m not sure that was really worth risking the only spore-drive ship in Starfleet to accomplish.
Neither did Discovery running rampant in Federation HQ. So, what, five 32nd Century starships can’t stop one 23rd Century (even with some updates) in its tracks? Really?
Yeah… It sure did take them a while to batter down Discovery. Almost as if they just did not intend to actually destroy it.
Not that I like defending the show but…
I think the intention was to destroy the ship they were in and STILL jump away,
The episode ended well. I just think at times the writers, directors, and the vfx artists are not on the same page about Discovery. There are so many inconsistencies about the size and inner workings of the ship that as a faithful Trekkie takes you out of the show at times to simply say, “Wait. Wtf?”
I concede that there is programmable matter now. Things can and have changed. But the ship should not be bigger on the interior. I’ll leave it at that.
Overall good (and overly sappy) episode.
Except that we saw the TARDIS Discovery in previous seasons, even before the programmable matter came along.