All Access Star Trek Talks Guinan On ‘Picard,’ Saru And Michael’s Futures, And How Discovery Is Bigger On The Inside

All Access Star Trek Podcast Episode 23 - TrekMovie

[Episode review starts at 17:57]

Tony and Laurie talk about Dr. Mohamed Noor and Jayne Brook’s new web series, upcoming Voyager and Nichelle Nichols documentaries, and Whoopi Goldberg’s excitement about being on Star Trek: Picard. They review the Star Trek: Discovery season 3 finale “That Hope is You, Part 2,” then wrap up with a New Year’s Eve cameo by a Star Trek phone case and a piece of Star Trek casting history that surprised them both.

Links to topics discussed in the pod

Whoopi Goldberg Talks About Joining ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 2

Patrick Stewart Invites Whoopi Goldberg To Join ‘Star Trek: Picard’

Mohamed Noor And Jayne Brook To Explore ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Science With YouTube Miniseries

‘Star Trek: Voyager’ Documentary To Start Crowdfunding Pre-Orders In March

The Shuttle Pod Crew Talks Making Star Trek Documentaries With David Zappone And Joe Kornbrodt

‘Woman In Motion’ Doc About Nichelle Nichols And NASA Coming To Theaters For One-Night February Event

The Ready Room

Other mentions:

What We Left Behind: Looking Back at Star Trek: Deep Space Nine on YouTube

The Trill “rejoined” the Federation

The gormagander


Tony: Kelly Osbourne with Laurie’s Juan Ortiz phone case

Laurie: Rex Holman as Morgan Earp (TOS) and J’onn (Star Trek V)

Let us know what you think of the episode in the comments, and post your suggestions for topics we should cover when Discovery‘s third season ends. (We particularly appreciated last week’s discussions!)

Subscribe to our podcasts

The All Access Star Trek podcast joins the long-running Shuttle Pod as part of the new Podcast Network. If you already subscribe to The Shuttle Pod, your subscription will now include both shows from Network. If you prefer, you can also sign up for only The Shuttle Pod or All Access Star Trek using the links below. Podcast Network of Shows Podcast Network All podcasts Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsStitcher
The Shuttle Pod Podcast The original podcast Apple PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsStitcher
All Access Star Trek Podcast All about the Star Trek Universe Apple PodcastsSpotifyPocket CastsStitcher

Keep up with everything to do with the Star Trek Universe at

Inline Feedbacks
View all comments

The racism on Trek Movie’s Facebook page is disappointing, but given what happened at the Capitol this week, it isn’t surprising. I’m glad that Laurie called out the real reason that Whoopie Goldberg is being attacked.

I read elsewhere that Tig Nataro did not want to fly due to the pandemic and possibly being exposed to the virus, so she was on set less, and therefore had less of a presence than she would have otherwise.

Yes we were the first to report on that however she was talking about season 4. Season 3 was completed before the pandemic lockdown

Janeway’s famous directive was “Do it!”

Ha! It was, but that wasn’t specifically for going to warp. But here’s a nice video montage of her saying “Do it.”

This is for you Lynn! Found this tribute a year ago. Enjoy:

God I love Janeway!

I’m lost for words after watching this episode. I’ve been so wrong about my initial judgment of the Burn. Not only has this creative solution grown on me, no villain, no failed experiment at all, but it also connects to my own life in a way I can gratefully appreciate.

Having lost my mother in June and my father five years ago, this hologram of Su’Kal losing his mother and looking for his parents in the sky was emotionally touching in a way I can hardly descrive. Due to their death I also had to move home, having lost my childhood home for good, just like the crew of Disco have lost their home, their century…

It just feels so meaningful to me. Star Trek has done that for me a couple of times before. 25 years ago I had a crush on a girl called Annika, but she was taken and totally out of reach. For almost a year I couldn’t think of anything but her… and then Star Trek gave me Annika Hanson aka Seven of Nine.

In 2009 I watched the first reboot movie with my best buddy only hours before his first child was born. When Kirk was born during the battle against the Narrada it felt like his daughter was born the very same moment. An entire universe was born that day…

A couple of months after my father had died, I had this dream of him in which he was saying goodbye to me, eventually dissolving in a miraculous cloud. Years later, Data had his final moment the very same way in the finale of PIC Season 1. It was exactly the same scenery as in my dream!

Star Trek has always had that power. I know this is overly melodramatic but this is how I feel about it.

That said, I love the new uniforms! They got that Space: 1999 – Season 1 vibe and I love that show.

I somewhat disliked the scenes in the turboshaft. That wasn’t a turbo shaft, that was all of Coruscant :-)

Grey as a Vulcan was so cute… I really love this episode despite some weaknesses… Now I’m really looking forward to Season 4…

I’m sort of surprised Michael got the chair as I had though that would happen in the very last moment of the show but I’m fine with it…

To be fair, I have to admit Star Wars has also done that sort of thing in a very special way. My father only died a few days after Episode 7 had come out, days after Han Solo had been stabbed by his very own son. Of course I didn’t stab my dad but I suppose I “killed” him, infecting him with the flu that I had caught at a rock concert, stupendously drinking from a shared bottle… He died in hospital and it happened so quickly.

And only few weeks after Episode 9 was released on Blu-Ray my mother died. But it was completely different. She had to struggle for about three weeks, eventually coming back from a coma only days before her death, something the doctors didn’t expect. It happened on Pentacost and she was able to contact me, just like Leia reached out for Ben. It’s hard to explain in easy words but it was a dream I had had months before her passing, a ghostly voice imprinted onto my mind. That very voice I heard again months later, on that Pentacost Sunday when she came back from her coma for a few minutes.

So yeah, it seems my two favourite franchises are somewhat connected to my life… the force, the mycelial network, the very fabric of space time. Make of it what you want, but despite those very sad losses, I take comfort in the fact that my own life has been reflected in those fictional worlds many, many times… travelling back and forth space and time in an otherworldly manner… It doesn’t make those passings any easier but it confirms that I have made the right choice becoming a sci-fi geek :-)

My sincere condolences on the lost off your mother.

I’m so, so sorry about your mom. And your losses. Fictional depictions of grief and loss often get to me in a deeply personal way, so I get it. (I don’t know if this is your thing or not, but Zoey’s Extraordinary Playlist does a remarkable job of juxtaposing these crazy musical numbers with one of the best depictions of grief I’ve seen. It gets to me every single time.) Hang in there.

Great discussion, as always! I really appreciated the remarks toward the beginning about letting the show wash over you. I’d like to offer one major and two speculative minor comments. The minor ones first:

  1. I think Laurie is on the right track about Saru’s eventual return to the Discovery. I’m guessing he will be appointed to a special Federation ambassadorial role with the Starfleet rank of captain to reconnect the Federation with all the worlds sundered by The Burn, and maybe bring in some new planets. We’ve seen Saru demonstrate some formidable diplomatic skills throughout this season and a kind of empathy (not of the Deanna Troi telepathic or the Book symbiotic varieties) to connect with people of varied species, most recently in his sensitive handling of Su’Kal.
  2. About Zora: realizing the ambiguities in what we’ve been told, I understood from the end of the previous episode that Zora had distributed itself throughout what could be a vast network of DOT-32 bots. The focal point of its “consciousness” seems able to shift around to various points and maybe can have multiple simultaneous focal points as in the three bots we met at the end of the penultimate episode. We must presume that there is an enormous volume to hundreds of thousands of years of sphere data that couldn’t be housed in a single bot. Spreading it around in small replicated bits in many places is more secure and accounts for the rather cavalier loss of bots we saw while retaking the ship. This doesn’t explain why the big deal was made of Jet Reno of repairing Owo’s self-sacrificing rescue bot, except for it being a symbolic or emotional moment.

My weightier remark has to do with the lamentable racist postings on Facebook. There can be no doubt of the anti-racism message that beats at the heart of Gene Rodenberry’s legacy. What might seem now as quaint tokenism in TOS’ inclusion of an African and an Asian among the bridge crew (and elsewhere) was at the time highly unusual and mind-blowing. Even though TOS didn’t escape from some questionable writing itself (e.g., McCoy’s attacks on Spock “why, you green-blooded Vulcan…”), it was a important turning point in American culture, as testified to by Whoopi Goldberg herself. See also the extremely moving discussion in the last episode of the Ready Room about Trek’s history of providing role models. This recent incident on Facebook shows how far our society has yet to go to achieve this aspect of Rodenberry’s vision.

Not sure if anyone else noticed, but in the final scene Tilly is seen wearing a Science/Blue uniform. But in behind the scenes photos (and the behind the scenes video seen in the Ready Room) she’s wearing a Command/Red uniform. So for some reason they either did a re-shoot or altered the color in post.

Several people mentioned it in the comments of the review article. This would be something that could be changed relatively easily in post so I don’t think they reshot the scene. The question is why they would change the color.
As for why the promo photos show the other color: Something similar happened with an earlier episode this season, the one where Kovich talks about the guy who traveled from the 24th century Kelvin timeline to the prime universe and then into the future. The promo clip for that episode featured the guy with a different communicator than the final episode. It seems that at least some of the promo material was put together before post production on the show had finished.

It’s likely a case that whoever made the costumes assumed that as first officer she’d be in command division colours, but then someone pointed-out that as science officer too she should still be in science division colours (like how Spock in TOS wore science blue rather than command gold, despite being XO in addition to science officer).

Maybe? But she was never identified as having two roles. And before she was made acting XO she wore an operations badge/bronze uniform – which would have her in yellow if she weren’t in command red. All kinda strange. I’m happy either way, just thought it was an interesting change.

I like the burn as it made space travel special, expensive (planets dedicating their entire resource base to the ship and crew) and “hard” again – not just powered by nonsensical perpetual motion machines where anti-matter doesn’t take any work to the point adults play holodeck all day rather than explore the real universe with their interstellar starship.
Just wish they had been a bit more sensical and entertaining but better than anything TNG, that’s for sure. (I do like Guinan though, one of the few likes I have for time wasted on that series. In Picard, they should take out robo-Picard and have Guinan be the main character).
I also like the fact that they had a character that had the courage to mutiny to strike first against the Klingons to prevent a war end up a Captain again!! WOW! Never thought they had that in them, that’s different for sure!

I totally agree your first sentence, Cmd. Bremmon! Well said!

Perhaps Tony or Laurie (or anyone) could answer a question about Jean-Luc Picard that I’ve wondered about several times and now do again with the joking mention here of “robo-Picard.” Isn’t it correct that Picard’s mentation and individuality have been transferred into an artificially-made but organic body? He has not been transferred, like Dr. Ira Graves in “The Schizoid Man” into a Data-like mechanical body with servos and a positronic brain but into a body composed of cells and flesh and bone. Data was really a robot, not an android. Picard is now living in an android (= artificially “grown” body based on DNA) body. Am I right?

Dahj was described as an organic android, so Picard’s new body is probably organic.

Right. But one without “superpowers.” It seems a bit contradictory to me that organic Dahj was seemingly presented as having “superpowers” comparable mechanical Data’s. Does her organic brain have Data’s positronic brain’s sheer computing power, for instance? Why can she “leap tall buildings in a single bound” with flesh and blood legs? But, it’s a story, so ok.

It’s quite possible that even if fully organic, whether that includes her brain or not, her body isn’t fully human, it may well have alien & perhaps animal (& possibly even augment) DNA incorporated to make it – in the words of Daft Punk – harder/better/faster/stronger.

Enjoyed the finale as well as the pod as usual. Sad to see the season end. However, unlike Laurie I never thought Book was in danger. It would be so cruel for Burnham to tell Stamets she’s never been in love then have her love interest disappeared in all three seasons! She lost Tyler twice already.

The point of the pesticide bombs is to distract more than kill outright. Because Starfleet would never just leave that dangerous shrapnel around. As we learned during Georgiou’s debrief, “The weakness of people is generally other people.” Osyraa knows this and uses concern for others as a weapon. Osyraa’s counting on Starfleet being too busy being Starfleet to chase her. Knowing one’s friends, lovers, etc are in jeopardy is supposed to throw the opponent off their game.

Saru could be a new Ship Counselor a la Troi. He’d also make a great first contact specialist. I think he joins the Diplomatic Corps and gets assigned to Discovery so we can get the planet of the week episodes we’ve been hoping for. Or may be we see the joint custody situation Pike talked about in season 2 again.

Upon rewatching part 2 of the 3 I realized the bots were multicolored like the Starfleet uniforms. So maybe SphereDot-23 was in command of all the other ones. That’s pretty sweet.

Things I’m looking forward to in season 4:

  • What’s up with Gray? We need answers.
  • Book’s namesake explanation.
  • A title and job description for Kovich.
  • Burnham’s hair. I’m pretty jealous how versatile SMG’s is.

I really thought Book was going to die. Between the “I love you”s and “I’ll tell you my nickname” and my own personal love of the character and his relationship with Michael, I thought for sure he was a goner! So happy that was not the case. And yes… Michael’s hair is beautiful.

I’m really hoping we get some more info on Adira (including a history pre-symbiont) and some actual reasons for what is happening with Gray. There’s a lot to look forward to in season 4.

Because of Discovery’s tradition of bringing in new regular characters each season but either killing them or have them leave before the season is over I was also worried that Book would not survive the episode.
Apparently, Michelle Paradise has now confirmed in an interview that David Ajala will actually be back in season 4.

Oooh, where did you see that interview?

TV Insider, posted on January 7.

Thanks! Found it. I FEEL SO MUCH BETTER.

The worst episode, perhaps, since ‘Spock’s Brain’? Filled to the brim with techno-babble and other nonsense. And the turbo-lift labyrinth took me completely out of the story (something about ‘suspension of disbelief’ being impossible under the circumstances). Very poorly written episode; very disappointing.


Really? The ending would have been a great farewell if the series had been cancelled afters season 3. How about “These are the voyages”?

Hey, Spock’s Brain is a great episode.

At least memorable. I still remember watching it in 1988 in german tv when it aired there for the first time. There are episodes which are bad due to its content and thise which are bad because they are simply booooring… This one isn’t boring.

Can’t fault actors or directors. writers need to take a look at themselves. while the sukal storyline was great the stuff on the ship was telegraphed, could see it a mile off. Not sure of bridge crew 90210. Only Owo is the character who feels could have a great backstory, not feeling for the rest. They are all a bit weak despite getting their moment in the sun, I wouldn’t of cared if most of them were killed off in that ep.

Burnham is surprisingly less annoying in this episode, but still has superwoman vibes going on.

Saru by far the best of the lot, making of one of treks great captains…alas not anymore..

I’m wating for the bridge crew of the USS Melrose Place. ;-)

I think the directors can sometimes be faulted. Osunsanme is mostly a very good director, but holy gee I wish he would lose the boner he’s got for slipping the camera upside down and sideways. It’s distracting and senseless.

Dear Laurie and Tony. Thanks so much for your review and this series. My Saturday mornings just won’t be the same as I usually listen to your conversation over breakfast. I do however look forward to your “continuing mission” so to speak, with new topics and guests joining you to discuss other aspects of Star Trek. Overall I enjoyed the Season 3 and its finale, with the ending giving me such a sense of hope as the Discovery warped off screen to be followed by a wonderful rendition of TOS end titles music. Bravo to the cast and crew on delivering such a complex show against the challenges of the current global situation.

You made my day, thinking of someone listening to us over breakfast! The timing for a hopeful, upbeat season finale couldn’t have been better, although of course they had no way of knowing it. Let us know if you have topics you’d like us to cover!

Two things caught my attention during the “fighty-fighty” scenes. LOL Last week, Burnham takes out the Regulator using a leg lock. I watched that twice before realizing it reminded me of the Figure 4 move Ric Flair used to do. And this week the flying shoulder block she used on Osyraa was signature John Cena. I’ve been cackling about this with my 14-year-old nephew who only recently has overcome his obsession with the WWE. Can you find out if SMG or maybe one of the stunt coordinator’s is a WWE fan?

I remember that crazy leg lock! If the opportunity arises, we will ask. Fun question! So much fighty-fighty.

With regards to the turbo shaft and the seemingly impossibly large space, are you forgetting the tardis that they found in Star Trek enterprise? They are now in a period of time beyond this technology, perhaps this is why it appears larger on the inside than the outside?

Just a thought.

Thanks for a great season review!

Exactly, think of it as a subspace pocket within the ship.

But there still is the question what the purpose of such big space inside of the ship is, if it is not used? Or were they gonna store some soon-extinct 1.000.000 whales?

Think of a starship as a big spaceframe with an envelope around it.

There’s no real need to make it smaller than the expected maximum requirements other than it requires a larger warp bubble and shields. Those however experience efficiencies of scale.

According to the Next Generation technical manual, much of what’s inside (quarters, canteen, labs) is empty volume modules that can be switched in and out.

If Starfleet suddenly needs to transport 1000 refugees, just put in suitable habitat modules, perhaps even with Barzan or other alternative atmospheres if needed.

If extra shuttles or sensor packs need to be stored for exploration, they can also be mounted in the frame until they need to be brought to the shuttle-bay or launch tubes for use.

Yes, the TNG technical manual is beta canon, but it’s rooted in earlier thinking for TMP. Most of all, it’s clearly what the writers and vfx people are working from.

Two issues there:

  1. The interior of the Discovery was already impossibly larger than the exterior in season 2.
  2. While not definitely the case, it’s likely that the subspace manifold technology that allowed 31st century Starfleet to build TARDISes instead of more conventional timeships like the Wells class was banned along with all other Federation Temporal Agency technology in the aftermath of the temporal wars.

We now that 2 future technologies found it’s way into the past:
-the holo-emitter
-the tardis tech.
Therefore they exist in Discovery’s new time. It could have been used and should have been introduced in a short scene just like programmable matter.

Actually, the interior was impossibly larger than the exterior as early as season 1, episode 3 ( the buds bay).

Oh, yeah, I’d completely forgotten that…

I hope Tilly at least gets promoted to LTC in the next season. That is fitting for first officer.

For me, she is a great character. I just read Una McCormack’s book on Tilly and seeing her overcome self-doubt and anxiety without it crippling her ability to lead inspires me to do the same in my life.

I love how her character has developed these last 3 seasons.