Last week on First Contact Day we got a lot of news about the next season of Star Trek: Picard, but many questions remain. And there really wasn’t any news on the first season of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, which is also currently in production. Now the co-showrunner of both shows is filling in some gaps.
Picard S2 is about connectedness… with some help from a different Q
Akiva Goldsman is now doing double duty, acting as co-showrunner for both Picard and Strange New Worlds. In a new interview with The Hollywood Reporter, the executive producer talked about both shows and more. With the big news of First Contact Day being the return of John de Lancie as Q for season two of Picard, Goldsman addressed why they decided to bring the iconic character back:
There are a lot of people who think of Q as a trickster god, right? And he is. But he’s also a profoundly significant relationship in Picard’s life. There’s a lot of discussion in Picard season two about the nature of connectedness. Q’s kind of a great lightning rod for that because in some ways he’s one of Picard’s deepest — not deep in the same way that Riker is or Beverly Crusher was — but in its own uniquely, profoundly deep relationship.
Goldsman also addressed the issue of how the often whimsical Q can fit in the more serious tone of Picard. While acknowledging that time may not even have any meaning to an immortal like Q, the executive producer revealed Q will be treated like Jean-Luc Picard and other characters and reflect the decades that have passed:
[W]e definitely chose to follow suit when it came to him. So as we tried to evolve the other characters, the same is true of Q. This is a show of a different time with actors of a different age. We’re now talking about the issues that come up in the last [stage] of your life. We wanted a Q that could play in that arena with Picard.
In previous interviews conducted in 2020 Goldsman has said the writers have spent their pandemic lockdown ensuring season two holds together from beginning to end. This is something that is important for a highly serialized show like Picard, and he acknowledged to THR this was the biggest lesson learned from the first season:
If you’re going to do a serialized show, you have the whole story before you start shooting. It’s more like a movie in that way — you better know the end of your third act before you start filming your first scene.
Sir Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard; Jonathan Frakes as William Riker; Marina Sirtis as Deanna Troi in Star Trek: Picard
Seeking to make Strange New Worlds (and the USS Enterprise) more like TOS
Switching to Strange New Worlds, Goldsman re-iterated how they are going in the opposite storytelling direction:
[I]t’s really episodic. If you think back to The Original Series, it was a tonally more liberal — I don’t mean in terms of politics, but it could sort of be more fluid. Like sometimes Robert Bloch would write a horror episode. Or Harlan Ellison would have “City on the Edge of Forever,” which is hard sci-fi. Then there would be comedic episodes, like “Shore Leave” or “The Trouble With Tribbles.” So [co-showrunner] Henry Alonso Myers and myself are trying to serve that… Strange New Worlds is very much adventure-of-the-week but with serialized character arcs.
Goldsman said this goal of aligning with TOS even extends to the look of the show, so they are making some changes from what was seen when Pike and the USS Enterprise were introduced in season two of Star Trek: Discovery (and Short Treks):
[T]he uniforms have been adjusted slightly, the sets are slightly different. Remember the Enterprise existed as a little piece of [the show Discovery], but now it’s its own object. When you close your eyes and think of the key sets and situations that you think of The Original Series, that’s what we’re looking to do.
Ethan Peck as Spock; Rebecca Romijn as Number One; Anson Mount as Captain Pike in Short Treks
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I hope the tweaks don’t go too far like the original TOS. It would look out of place. And why mess with such perfect uniforms. Not liking the decisions being made that I’m hearing on this show.
Interesting. I had the exact opposite reaction. I’m not a DSC hater, but I really never liked that version of the TOS unis. It looks to me like they are constantly being strangled, or else their weird tuxedo bowtie is completely dilapidated. Also the actors all look like they had a very small range of motion with their upper bodies. I actually really liked the Kelvin TOS versions a lot (even though the JJ movies I could live without).
I agree – the asymmetrical collar was interesting in a “1950s airline uniform” kind of way, almost like a built-in kerchief, along with the asymmetrical zip, but as we move into the next five-year-mission, an updated Kelvin-style “mesh overshirt / black base shirt” would make sense, simply for the freedom of motion you need in an action show.
They could be tailored, but not tight-fitting, more breathable? Not necessarily with the laser-cut delta patterns as in KT films, but maybe some sort of knitted mesh texture.
I wonder if they’re going to modify the insignia badge as well, going from the 3D look to something more like the KT style, or even a fabric patch that’s sewn flush with the overall surface using reverse appliqué for a more seamless look?
(Of course this means you can’t have any dramatic ‘I resign!’ scenes where someone takes off their badge and leaves it on the Captain’s desk.)
I like the uniforms, but would love it with a few tweaks: get rid of the shoulder piping and side pattern, and make them slightly less form fitting.
I agree, but I’m hopeful the changes are modest to the uniforms since as far as we know Gersha Phillips and the Toronto costume team are still making these.
I would think that the uniforms that we saw on the Superbowl promotions are likely it for the men.
The colours have been muted a bit from Discovery S2, they’re not the bright clear Pantone versions.
I’m thinking that the women’s uniform options might be a bit different. Gersha Phillips shared a few different versions, including the tunic and pants Number One wore and the tunic, short skirt over pants and high boots that Nhan and Amin wore. But there was also a version with a tunic one-piece dress over pants that would be closer to the TOS version.
There is a different production designer on both series now as Tamara Deverell has been working on Guillermo del Toro’s new film Nightmare Alley. So, we’ll have to see what designer Jonathan Lee does with the other major interiors like Sickbay and main Engineering.
They can let ’em all wear Crocs and t-shirts for all I care, provided the writing is good.
Interesting. While I’m totally into good stories and writing, the visuals aspects are of an even higher importance for me. I’m so totally obsessed with ship designs, uniforms and iconic set pieces that I cannot help but pay a lot more attention to these aspects. Good stories is a nice addendum, important but not pivotal.
Uniforms, starship glory shots, bridge designs and hopefully a better engineering set… That’s what I’ve always been obsessed with. But that may be my autism speaking. We have slightly different priorities :-)
Don’t get me wrong, I’d definitely rather this have all those things as well. Hopefully we will both be pleased!
The Disney Star Wars trilogy would tend to disagree with you on visuals being more important than story not even the incredible music and VFX could save it from terrible inconsistent writing and characters.
Its one of the reasons I prefer Babylon 5 over Star Trek the CGI dated really quickly but the characters writing and consistency of said writing was phenomenal
I’m genuinely not surprised that visuals are more important than story for some fans, that’s how bizarre the fandom has been the past 10 years or so. Truly mind boggling.
Sadly I kinda agree. If possible I’d be willing to sacrifice some of the other decently done production values if we could get an increase in the quality of writing.
It’s not sad at all to want better writing and story and place strong visuals below that. That’s what Star Wars is for, Trek has traditionally been more about story and character drama over the flare of visuals. More of that, please.
Fair point. I just meant that it was sad that I felt I had to ask for better priorities from Secret Hideout.
While I disagree with you, I wonder if the folks at SNW and DSC read our comments. It must drive them NUTS. One person loves something and the next person doesn’t like it. If they tweak the uniforms due to actor input I’m OK with it. While the entire cast looks as fit as a fiddle, when they are sitting down, the tunic make them look heavier than they actually are. Watch the the scene in the finale S2 of Discovery. They are all explaining to StarFleet Command that Discovery went “boom”
“such perfect uniforms”
That’s a matter of debate. The uniforms seen in S2 of Discovery were just standard Discovery uniforms, painted with the 3 primary colors of TOS. You can see the same bands around the shoulders/arms, the “delta pattern” on the sides of the chest, as well as the pattern above the shoulders. They’re all the same as Discovery, just painted over…
The asymmetrical collar is one of the worst design changes to the uniform, and I hope bringing back some symmetry is part of the “minor tweaks”. Also please remove any Discovery influences to the uniform, and we’ll be golden (no pun intended)
As for the rest of the tweaks, I hope they get rid of that godawful CGI Engine Room seen in one of the Short Treks, as well as the horrendously bad repainting of Discovery corridors. The bridge on the other hand, perfect!
Phew. My biggest compaint with Picard season 1 (and Disco season 3) was how rushed the ending felt. Characters and plot threads were resolved or brushed aside almost haphazardly. It really felt like the writers started writing the season without knowing how it would end. I’m glad Goldsman has the ending in sight this time.
I’m more horrified that he’s just learning that now. I assumed all writers learned that by the time they hit college. If it wasn’t taught, (which it really should have been), then certainly it is common sense. It’s kind of like saying, “I just realized that coming up with a good recipe is a lot easier if I have know what food I’m making ahead of time!” No shit Sherlock.
Then you clearly aren’t a writer. People who aren’t writers often feel qualified to judge the writing process, even though they’re not.
Come on. I’m barely done my first coffee. Do we really need snarky, personal comments on every story?
Are you a writer? Are you involved with the show?
Actually, I am a science fiction writer. And I’m judging him saying that he didn’t have an ending before filming. I’m not judging what that produced.
Couldn’t agree with you more, Total-Trekkie2.
There are many MANY acclaimed authors who write without knowing where the story is going, or knowing the end. I think for serialized TV it is important, but not the be-all-end-all. And there has to be flexibility as well, especially when working with multiple writers across a dozen episodes.
At some point in the incubation process for a story a path needs to be formed. It should not be among the last things put together. As it appears is is from the Secret Hideout folks.
It definitely depends on the type of story being written. For some things, it’s more about the journey than the destination. For a science fiction thriller? Yeah. you need the ending from the get go.
Frankly, that’s not at all what bothers me about DSC or Picard. Trek is, at its best, always more about character than actual plot. Plenty of great Trek episodes, particularly TNG, where the story is just there to hang the character stuff on.
Had the character stuff been better, the stories we got would have been fine.
Agree with that, too. Some of the best dramatic episodes and features have some pretty large plot holes.
I’m making chicken tonight. Oops. No chicken in the Fridge. 😁😁
I think I remember hearing that when they wrote Best of Both Worlds Pt1, they didn’t completely know what the ending would be — and Pt2 kind of showed that (anyone know if that’s true?). It’s just one two-part episode and not 10 serialized episodes, but yeah.
But yeah, I agree, and it kind of explains why most of Discovery and Picard felt so aimless.
I wonder how many other shows operate like this. I can sort of see it with semi-serialized shows that have 20+ episodes (increasingly rare) that are each self-contained but contribute to varying degrees to a season-long arc. Otherwise, I think it’s usually pretty obvious when the ending is an afterthought.
Often the writer of a cliffhanger is not the writer of the conclusion. In fact, I believe I read the writer of part one knew he wasn’t coming back next season so he just wrote what he felt was a great cliffhanger not knowing at all how they were going to get out of it. All he knew was he wasn’t going to be a part of it. This is quite common in the older days of season ending cliffhangers.
Same thing happened on Enterprise. They ended season 3 with evil alien Nazis and it was up to new show runner Manny Coto & Co to get out of it. Coto opted to wrap up the temperal cold war subplot as best he could and move on from there.
The irony of that first story (BoBW) is that the outgoing writer was I think Piller, who didn’t think he was coming back for Season 3. He ultimately did renew his contract, and was even elevated to showrunner, so it became his problem to resolve the cliffhanger. He was kicking himself for writing the story into a corner, as he described it in some behind the scenes interviews.
I remember being appalled by the creator/show runner behind Heroes when he said in some interview that they really only planned about 4 episodes ahead of where they were filming. And it showed in the final product.
The best shows are the ones that had a destination in mind, even if the destination was updated along the way. With very, very, very few examples to the contrary, the “mystery box” doesn’t work if the writer doesn’t know what is in it, especially if it’s central to the plot.
My biggest problem with most serialized shows is that there seems to be little to no advanced planning, and even if they somehow plan out the single season, they make no attempt to map out long-term beyond the season finale.
J. Michael Straczynski had a rough 5-10 year plan in mind for Babylon 5 since he started pitching the show in the late 1980s. He overhauled the plan massively at least twice, and continually updated it while the show was running. He wrote character arcs with “escape hatches” which allowed him to transfer important story arcs to other characters in the case of an actor/actress leaving or if something just wasn’t working while the show continued on. He moved story arcs he had planned out of B5 and into Crusade (which unfortunately never got to be realized).
I really like the idea of semi-serialized shows, and I think that model would be best for a Trek series in today’s television climate. A few episodes could be dedicated to a specific arc (as 2-3 parters), but there should still be a good number of stand-alone “A” plots. Voyager is a good example of a show that would have benefited from that kind of model. The show is often criticized for having that big ol’ reset button hit after each episode, with only a handful of character and story arcs really continuing along in a meaningful way.
Lost was a good case for that. They set up some really interesting stuff but, like how they did their final approach or not, a viewer could see once they knew they had an end to the show coming they mapped it out to where they wanted it to go. When it was open ended you could see they really had no idea how much or how little they ought to advance things.
Agreement with Lost, even if the final season doesn’t hold up very well for me. It’s certainly not due to their lack of planning.
In Lost, there’s a clear direction that the “present” timeline storyline is following that was clearly mapped out, in-part or in-full by the start of Season 4. The stuff that happens in the past (Dharma) and the “sideways” stuff doesn’t hold up nearly as well.
Season 3 feels aimless because it really was aimless (they had no idea where to take the story). Season 2 holds up better while watching it, but they pretty much had no idea where the story would go once they blew open the hatch.
Having worked in TV, I think it’s more that the pandemic gave them the time to do it. Even with 10 episode seasons the schedules are often so compressed that there just isn’t time to block out every beat of every episode and sync up the plants and payoffs perfectly. A lot of the time you have to start filming before you’re done blocking the whole season. And then sometimes an actor’s schedule requires they move production up, etc. or something really cool happens on set like a character really takes off and has life and you wanna adjust things as you go. It’s actually good to have that flexibility sometimes to account for unforeseen developments. In any case, real life doesn’t always give you the opportunity to plan everything out in advance. Kurtzman has talked about this in the past, he was admittedly more eloquent about it than Goldsman.
KirkFu training for everyone!
Yes and more yes!! Love me some KirkAnything, but KirkFu would be awesome! He was the hottest part of TOS. 🔥🔥🔥🔥🤩
+1
They are also gonna tweak the uniforms? Ripping shirts for everyone!
+1
“Does the rolling help?”
+1
I am very happy they are going to try to make it look more like the Original Series. You don’t redesign an iconic ship like the USS Enterprise. I was sad that they did in Discovery. Imagine Disney re-imagining the Millennium Falcon. Just light things differently and grade the colours, but don’t mess with visual continuity.
The Enterprise may look more like TOS than it does in Discovery, but I suspect that its final look will still be closer to Discovery than to TOS.
I think it’s actually a clever way to set the pre-TOS era apart from TOS.
This “Enterprise 1.0″ is, in the new visual continuity, the “real” one that launched in 2245.
The visual discrepancy is really the result of TOS’ showrunners / creators wanting to save money in 1966 by shooting a 2-part framing story, “The Menagerie,” around the original pilot episode.
If they hadn’t done that, we wouldn’t even know that Captain Pike existed. It was all a retcon, including the fact that this was supposed to be “eleven years ago,” even though the pilot and framing episode were shot only two years apart. (And maybe we can handwave some of this being a mental projection from the Talosians.)
Theoretically: if there had been no first pilot episode footage to draw upon, and you had to come up with brand-new footage in 1966 with different actors, modified sets and lighting etc to denote that the events were from eleven years in the past, wouldn’t it be reasonable that, budget permitting, they might create a modified Enterprise model with changed details (and given that the resolution of analog TV was so low, it’d have to look *identifiably* different, not subtly) so that viewers could understand what time frame they were looking at?
It makes more sense from our perspective today that the Enterprise “actually” looked like what we saw in Discovery for the first half of its existence, before undergoing a major refit right before Kirk took command. That explains the change from 200 to 400 crew members, volumetric changes to the saucer, the changes to the warp nacelles and pylons and hull plating etc. (being more advanced, lighter, efficient, etc.)
The events of “The Cage” only took place about three years before DSC season 2, so it’s unlikely it would have started out looking like the TOS (or pilot) ship, and then be refit to make it into the squatter, more “NX-01-y” DSC version, only to refit it back again in another decade.
We will clearly be on the path toward more TOS-y designs as the series progresses, though it’ll likely be more of a closeness in texture, lighting and feel than an exact copy.
I do hope they change how they film space scenes, though. Super-dark scenes with wildly coloured backgrounds makes it really hard to parse what’s going on. JJ-style juddery camera with dust on the lens makes sense for *some* tense action scenes but I’d like to return to a kind of TNG-style graceful flyby with beauty shot (albeit sometimes unrealistic) lighting, or a hybrid that looks clean like NASA space station footage, without dust / smoke / gas in the way.
Yeah, you do. Especially when you have better technology. If they had the ability to make the discovery Enterprise in 66′ and some said you this or you can have that. There’s no way they would’ve went with the original.
Star Trek was passed down to me from my from who got to see the TOS in it’s run. So I love trek. However, my love for the 60’s version Enterprise only because it’s the Enterprise. It doesn’t compare to the refit, which is the most beautiful starship ever, especially with that translucent azteching. No other comes close (well maybe the E) until the Discovery Enterprise. I love that thing.
I have to agree with you on the ships.
I do hope they get the red/green lights thing right, though.
I don’t think they are going to change the exterior much. I expect that to still look like what we seen on Discovery. I think he’s talking about the interiors mostly.
A little brighter and a little less Discovery-like would be nice. Does everything need to be either dark red or charcoal?
Also, I find the bridge wall graphics/controls a little too busy — the TOS bridge was elegant/simple but it still mostly looked like everything actually worked.
While the Abrams-prise bridge was also a little too busy, I liked the interior.
As fas as SNW uniforms go, I like the cowls, but I’d love to see The Cage/WNMHGB colour scheme (muted blue/muted gold with matching collars). I realize this is unlikely.
I agree. It needs to be better lit. Not a fan of the dark interiors. It would also work better for the era they are supposed to be in.
I liked hearing that as well. But again, hearing someone employed by Secret Hideout saying something and seeing what they actually do have proved to be two VERY different things.
Also, and its sad that I feel I need to add this… This is NOT an endorsement for duplicating everything from a 60’s TV show down to the type of material used in the original sets. Obviously the ship and sets need to be updated. But updated in such a way that it looks good for modern TV and evokes the feel of the classic TOS ship.
that’s a good point. there were still people who freaked out that the Falcons deflector dish was rectangular instead of circular even though we KNEW it needed to be replaced after ROTJ anyway lol
“You don’t redesign an iconic ship like the USS Enterprise.”
Gene Rodenberry does not agree with you.
I’m glad to hear that they are tweaking the uniforms, and I’m sure it’s about those collars; Can’t stand that look.
Yeah, the uniforms should get ripped faster now! True to TOS.
I’m kinda hoping they change the filming style to a taller aspect ratio, but I’m guessing they’ll keep it in scope like the other shows.
Why would you want to lose the widescreen?
Widescreen is a useful format for submarines, but isn’t necessarily the right answer for everything. Just like cropping TOS to make it widescreen when it was composed for 4:3, which is about as brain-dead as anything I’ve seen (or actually, refused to see.) Apparently the new cut of the Snyder Warner thing is a narrower aspect ratio, though I have no idea what his rationale was (haven’t like anything of his since WATCHMEN, just think he lost it.)
Snyder shot JL on IMAX hence 4:3 aspect.
I still thought the 4X3 was a weird choice.
For something that was going to be seen exclusively on televisions and not on IMAX it was a very weird choice. The point of an imax image is immersion, the top and bottom portions of the image aren’t the focus and your still looking at the center, which is why most movies that shoot for IMAX are 16×9 at home (Like the IMAX scenes of Nolan films on Blu-ray, for example). Shrinking that whole image down to the center of the the TV is less immersive, which kinda defeats the purpose. I haven’t seen it so I can’t comment on how it looks in practice though.
I saw it. It helps if you have a REALLY BIG TV or a 4K projector… which I don’t. But that said most scenes are framed so you’re not squinting at tiny characters.
My main criticism is that the colors are so muted at times it *seemed* like a black and white movie, and Snyder really, really overindulges in his favourite cinematic technique, the slow-motion speedramped action scene.
The revamped CGI for Steppenwolf is cool (his armor, made of a billion tiny metal needles) but towards the end it starts to look like the budget ran out;
It’s kinda like the movie is hitting you over the head with not-Thor’s not-hammer saying LOOK. EPIC, ISN’T IT? SO. EPIC.
TOS is 4:3 on Blu-ray and it should be as making it 16:9 means cropping the shots but pretty much everybody watching the new series are doing so on a relatively modern tv so I don’t really see the benefit in having a taller aspect ratio or SNW.
The thing that I think they SHOULD have done with the TOS remaster was make all the new shots (exteriors, set ups and the like) 16X9 but keep the rest of the show 4:3. If I recall correctly, and I may not be, the remastered shots were all done to be shown in 16X9. I was disappointed when I watched my BD set and saw the new remastered shots were 4:3 like the rest of the show. Nothing wrong with going back and forth a bit.
Maybe, I’m just not sure though whether that would make the 4:3 scenes more jarring. Whilst I initially found it a bit weird watching something in 4:3 on a modern TV once I got used to it I’d just forget about it. If it was constantly switching back and too I’m not sure I could forget about it though. On the other hand there is of course a significant market for imax movies and they are changing aspect ratio throughout screenings so maybe you’re onto something. Certainly those DS9 battle scenes would look glorious in widescreen if ever we’re lucky enough to get a remaster of that series.
You don’t gain anything by shooting wider than 16×9 for TV. It’s not like showing a Cinemascope film, where you’d have to crop it to fit the screen. It’s just a waste of screen space. All you gain is black bars, so you’re not losing anything by not shooting that way. I don’t know why they do it.
Exactly, I have a 40″ TV and a Standard Definition limit on my Netflix account. I would definitely prefer true 16/9, rather than Discovery’s current ‘cinema scope’ look.
Yep, totally, there’s no benefit.
It’s slowly coming in at the high end, but 21:9 TVs are a thing.
Also, thinking practically, cropping the shot to a cinema wide aspect ratio means you can hide stuff out of frame – boom mics, wires, dolly tracks, squibs etc.
(Something they discovered when they remastered Buffy for widescreen, is that there was crew just outside of the frame that were hidden by the 4:3 crop from 16:9 film frames)
Sure you do, anytime you’ve got a GOODBADUGLY style shootout framed up, you need a wider format. Or if you’ve got a need to show solitude, you put somebody in a corner and let the wide anamorphic frame play the loneliness in a way that a camera pan doesn’t quite deliver.
The material and the approach should determine the format, not the enduser’s viewing platform.
Why people get hung up on black bars, either on the sides or the top of frame, I’ve never EVER understood, because that means you’re watching your console, not the entertainment playing on it. (am thinking maybe I need to make that my quote on the few movie sites I still post at in the future.)
Having said all that, I think DSC’s scope look is just them trying to be trendy rather than a story-driven choice. Or it could be a sop to directors who are trying to impose a style on thing, which may or may not be justifiable, depending on the episode and the results.
One of the things I was pushing for when I was trying to do while writing a bible and developing a ‘working class’ space TV series in the early 90s was a variable aspect ratio, so you could either do whole episodes with different aspect ratios or occasionally change the ratio for dramatic effect within an episode, which could have an effect equivalent to the moment in the original THOMAS CROWN film where they cut from a sixteen-image split screen to a closeup. About twenty years later I interviewed Doug Trumbull, and one of the things he was pushing for a high-tech equivalent of the same thing with the high-frame-rate process, so you could be seeing a movie that looked ‘normal’ except for key scenes or shots that ramped up to 60FPS or higher. The trick would be getting the audience tuned to this kind of thing so it didn’t seem like a gimmick (plus the tech of outfitting theaters or enduser systems to accomodate it all.)
Movies are made for the theater first and home second, particularly big blockbusters where everything hinges on the box office revenue. So they want to make a big, splashy theatrical experience. Shooting in scope (2.39:1) widescreen helps differentiate it from home and make the theatrical experience unique and exciting.
But if you’re developing something that will be shown exclusively at home, and not in theaters, formatting it for a theatrical screen is kinda pretentious and dumb. Whats the point? Cool I guess for the small number of people with awesome home theaters watching on massive projector screens but that is a small percentage. Nearly all people are watching on 16×9 TV, probably of an average of 50″, and they gain nothing by you shooting in in a wider format, and especially on those smaller screens they are actually probably getting a subpar experience by it being in scope. Why not format it for what your viewer is actually watching it on?
I think stuff should be shown in whatever format the filmmakers intend for it to be in. But sometimes those decisions don’t make a ton of sense.
Yes, just yes.
Zack Snyder has a lot to answer for.
I have a total disconnect with Snyder’s stuff in the last decade just going by the monochromatic look he seems to have inflicted on DC. What does the guy have against somewhat naturalistic colors? This century seems plagued by people who don’t want blue skies and white clouds or any other kind of everyday look, plus the need to tear the image down with unmotivated lens flares and OTT aberrant camera movement, and I just don’t get any of it. The idea of using stuff for a particular effect seems to have disappeared in favor of piling stuff on constantly regardless of context or story need. I haven’t seen much beyond MAN OF STEEL and part of the next one, but I did watch some kind of dream scene (youtube maybe?) where things are totally screwed up, like BATMAN and everybody is getting wiped out in the future, and thought, if they saved that weird look just for scenes like this that are probably dreams or visions, they’d have greater weight than when you make whole films looking this way.
Very much looking forward to SNW and which, if any Federation or enemy ships are reinterpreted.
I can’t Believe Goldsman actually acknowledged the ending was not good, and that they never actually planned the story.
I am also annoyed that he is going to be Co-Show runner for Picard – Terry Matalas was advertised as being in charge.
Also him direct the SNW pilot is alarming.
The ending didn’t fit to the beginning, but at least it wasn’t boring like the episodes in between. If they plan the story for the whole season, then please make the story for 10 episodes instead a story for a 3-parter extended to 10 episodes. After the pilot each episode gave me the feeling “when does the story START?” The same applies to Discovery season 3.
Interesting. I felt the 3rd act of that 10 part story was actually the best and most interesting part. It was the 1st and 3rd acts where the show failed.
Oops. Edit. The 2nd act was the better part.
It definitely showed. I can’t even rewatch Picard season 1. The writing was just horrible. And to make Picard into Data 2.O….made no sense.
It too bad, because there was so much promise and so many neat details/world-building in those first 2-3 episodes. I guessed that a lot of that came from Chabon. But none of it really went anywhere.
The ending ended up being simplistic, felt 80s-retro (in a bad way, like a Hunter episode or Code of Honor) and was kind of silly (the tentacles from the other dimension). Still a couple of neat SF ideas, but it felt like it was part of a different show.
The biggest thing that bugged me was: Why was Picard pro-synth? I get his love of Data, and maybe his support for synths building synths — but the idea that he’d want Starfleet to build android-slaves (which is what the synths on Mars were) goes agaInst everything we’d known about him (or at least Measure of a Man).
That Voyager episode that showed a bunch of Doctor holograms working garbage duty really bugged me too — I think it was meant as a quick joke, but, well, slavery ain’t funny.
Those Mars synths weren’t any more slaves than the computer on the Enterprise is a slave. Or the ship itself. Is SIRI a slave? No. It’s a tool.
But I do agree that Picard becoming robo-Picard does indeed go against everything he has ever uttered about humanity.
They’re self-aware tools. If Siri was sentient, it would be a problem.
I don’t automatically hate on Goldsman. My concern is more with Secret Hideout. Goldsman was involved in Titans and that show wasn’t a the complete mess SH Trek is. I’ve seen his name on stuff that was terrible and other stuff that worked OK.
Well, he was also the writer of “Batman and Robin” as well so there is that. He seems to be a very inconsistent writer. He could get an Academy Award one time and next he could churn out something like “Batman and Robin”.
That’s my point. He is perfectly capable of churning out garbage but he has also been involved in some decent stuff too. His name is not the automatic kiss of death many people make it out to be.
I’m in for a full on nostalgia overload.
Yep. I think that is the main reason for bringing in Q. It’s the same reason they brought Pike to Discovery in their S2. The show wasn’t delivering so they added a known element for fans.
This might just be a slip of the tongue, but does mentioning Beverly Crusher in the past tense (but not Riker) suggests she is indeed deceased in Picard’s time period as rumor had it last year?
It could just mean that Riker is still on the shows, while Crusher hasn’t been around in 19 years.
I think it is more likely that Beverly just hasn’t shown up in the show yet, unlike Riker. So Riker’s relationship is “is” and Beverly’s is “was”. Remember Picard hadn’t seen his old friends in years, isolated on his vineyard, until Nepenthe.
You could also say that his relationship with Crusher was closer even before TNG- perhaps even (although not in a romantic sense) when her husband was still alive.
I thought it odd that Picards relationships from TNG were mentioned at all. His relationship with the crew was always very professional. Never personal. His past with Crusher was mentioned from time to time but apart from the occasional breakfast together we never got any hints that what they had was anything more than professional at this point. It was very easy to think of JL Picard as being 50 years old even when he was 25. And in spite of what we learned from Tapestry it was very hard to imagine he was ever a young man in spirit. Let alone an undisciplined one. Kirk, Sisko, Janeway and Archer? Sure. Absolutely. Picard? I envisioned him as the kid who reminded the teacher she forgot to give homework.
Anyway, Picard just came across as a VERY competent leader who engenders loyalty, but personally is a very lonely man who only has ever on had his career.
They kissed in All Good Things… but that never actually happened because time reset to when Picard interrupted Troi and Worf in the corridor.
Yeah. We’ve seen him smooch other women on occasion, too. Granted there is a history with Crusher, so there is that. But I still found such a history hard to buy based only on what I saw in the 7 year run on the show.
Well, you could proceed with the idea that Picard evolved from the end of the series when he actually sat in on the card game, so that his relationship with these colleagues would become more personable if not yet intimate, but there’s nothing in the films that really reflects that in the slightest, even in GEN, where you’d figure having the same writers that they’d have had this in mind.
If anything Picard devolves into a dumb action hero who does the brave/stupid thing, like storming SCIMITAR single-handed instead of leading his whole surviving crew in a boarding raid after the ramming, before the ships miraculously and stupidly get disentangled (I say that because when SCIMITAR puts its engines in reverse, it should just drag the two ships backwards together, not separate them, one of the megadumbest things in a franchise film series full of megadumb things. Think how much more exciting visually it would have been if SCIMITAR had been firing port engines in one direction and starboard in the other, then reversing the process, inching/wrenching themselves violently away from Enterprise.)
Man, everytime I think of NEM, all I can see is moments of why didn’t they catch this? or why didn’t anybody realize how stupid that was? Though I do admit the score has grown on me.
Episodic adventures with character arcs sounds like the best of both worlds. We can have new adventures, but if Pike loses his brother — as Kirk did in “Operation: Annihilate!” — it’ll still matter next week. Perfect!
That was a bit of a pet peeve of mine from TFF. At the end when Kirk said “I lost a brother once.” My very first thought was he was referring to Sam. (who was mentioned twice in the three year run) Thought it was a great touch! But then he said, “I was lucky enough to get him back.” And then I felt let down. Even Kirk forgot he had a dead brother. If I was advising that shoot, I would have suggested to change the line to “I’ve lost two brothers. I was lucky enough to get one of them back.”
I bet the argument against that would have been that most people going to that movie would have no idea that Kirk had a brother who was killed but I would argue that doesn’t matter because it was still obvious what he was telling Spock.
I think the comic book adapters flashed on the same thing as you, ML, because I remember a thought bubble where Kirk thinks ‘Sam’ as he falls down from Yosemite.
I’m fine with making it look more like TOS but I’m far more interested in them writing it like TOS. Give us TOS Season 4 or -1 or whatever, but give us that feel. Oh, and DO NOT make Pike “troubled” by his knowledge of his future. It may be realistic but the other two Treks are already depressing crap, just don’t.
The Disco-episode “New Eden” was IMHO the closest thing to that and felt like a pilot for SNW. I’d like to see more of that.
I don’t need it super TOSy because TOS was more of a space opera than a science fiction show for my tastes, but PLEASE no more depressing crap!? PLEASE?!?! Picard will be the first Star Trek show I refuse to watch. Having Picard open in the beginning of 2020? Yeah, really did not help the year. Disco season 3 was ok, (way too much Burnham saving the day and Burnham crying/being emotional, oh and Tilly’s insane promotion), but all told it was Disco’s best season imho, and I rather liked it. LDS is LDS, but it at least feels like Star Trek to me in regards to the optimism and having the ship be one big family. But I’m really, really hoping SNW will be the new Star Trek flag ship that brings Star Trek back to what it was and is meant to be. Of course, I had the same hope for Picard and we all saw how that turned out, so… Fingers crossed?
We’ll, Goldman says in the interview that he really “believes in well earned happy endings” which suggests that the characters have to get through rough things first.
So I think we know what that means for Picard and will have to see what that means for the character arcs in SNW.
I would prefer they never touch on that ever again. At the very least it should be treated like Pike believes his future isn’t set in stone and he still should be careful. I mean, he shouldn’t set the ship to self destruct knowing that dying on his exploding ship isn’t his fate so he knows it won’t happen. He cannot believe that fate or the character just won’t work. So best to ignore it or just say out loud that nothing is for certain.
Hell, they could always have Spock pull a REQUIEM FOR METHUSELAH and tell Pike to ‘Forget’ at some point, especially if the Captain becomes paralyzed by self-reflection over this his future.
I’d be surprised if the ‘creatives’ haven’t already considered this and tucked it into a back pocket in case they should need it. Or it could help shore up Number One’s character to show her levelheadedness manifest in a showdown with Pike over him being in a funk, showing the kind of backbone that Barrett’s Chapel shows in TOS when she has that moment of lying to Ensign Garrovick about McCoy’s doctor’s order for him to ‘Eat.’
It all sounds great! But let’s be honest, it usually does. It’s the actual execution that people are not always sure about. ;)
But definitely like what I’m hearing on both shows. I’m just happy to have Q back in Star Trek on Picard. It sounds like we are getting introspective Q this time which I always assumed we would. It doesn’t mean he can’t be funny or have some fun though. Completely onboard with it. Think of all those Q rewatches fans will be doing. All Good Things is going to get played to death lol. And I have to hope next season is better. If season 2 still suck even WITH Q, that’s going to be highly disappointing.
SNW also sounding like it’s going in the right direction. I really thought it was going to be done like DIS and a really big (and convoluted) story arc, but it sounds like they really heard the fans and want it to get back to a TOS feel. That’s great news. I really can’t wait. And for years we heard ‘you can’t make new Star Trek look like TOS without it coming off as a joke’ and yet…..
If they had the same attitude with Discovery from day one instead of making it feel and look like some generic sci fi show, it would probably still be in the 23rd century today (but not complaining on that ;)).
I had read that they already announced that SNW was going to be more episodic in nature. So that news isn’t really new to me.
You mentioned All Good Things rewatches… I’m not enthusiastic about Q as you are. In fact, I think it a mistake. (To be fair I thought Pike was a mistake, too but look how well THAT turned out!) But I truly hope they don’t try and emulate AGT at all. That would mean a show with zero stakes and Q just tells Picard everything. Honestly I don’t know where else they can go with Q and Picard. Q loves humanity and enjoyed needling Picard while Picard loathed Q and everything about him. Not a lot of wiggle room in that relationship from where I sit. I feel like it would take more imaginative and higher skilled writers than Secret Hideout has to make something more out of Picard & Q.
Yeah I knew that about it being episodic. I’m just talking about how I felt before we were told. I was convinced it was still going to be formatted mostly like Discovery. I think I even exchanged a few posts with you about it. Again you do have to give Kurtzman credit, he does listen to the fans. Not only did most want a Pike show, most also wanted it more episodic like TOS and TNG and he clearly got the message. Again, it doesn’t mean it will be great since last time I check there is still a lot of bad episodic shows too but hopefully it will be good.
And obviously you could be right about Q, it could be a mistake. But that could be said about any story line or character they do. But I think once again they listened to fans since there have been plenty begging to bring Q back since the day Picard was announced. BUT most likely they were dying to just do Q as well so it’s probably most likely both. I’m not remotely surprised. If you look at every past Q thread here I was said Q was definitely coming back. It was never an if but a when. That said, I had no idea it would be this soon lol, but I knew it was going to happen eventually.
We’ll have to see how they do it but I’m looking forward to it. I was also looking forward to seeing the Borg again though and we know how that turned out. ;)
Listening to the fans is not always a good thing. In fact, I would argue in most cases it’s not. Fans tend to want more of what they got before. Fans tend to be more nostalgic. As a fan I can certainly understand that perspective as I tend to desire that some myself. But I also know that new blood with new ideas add fresh elements to franchises.
That said, back in the day I knew that pretty much every element of Picard from TNG was going to get used in some way. The entire cast will eventually show up no matter how much they said this was not TNG 2.0. It pretty much is. Q had to show up as well. Wes and Yar are the only TNG regulars I think have a less than 100% chance of showing up.
Listening to fan input for smaller things that are essentially window dressing (like Klingon hair) is one thing. But revolving your plot around fan consensus I feel has a higher probability of failure. Example: The fans like the Borg. So let’s include Borg in Picard season 1. How well did that work out for them?
Well they seem to listen to the fans over Discovery and I would say pretty much every change that people complained about was for the better IMO. What changes do you disagree with? Honestly I’m fine with every one of them from changing the Klingons to putting the show farther in the future (you know how much I love that one ;)).
Fans were also saying they didn’t want Khan in the second Kelvin movie and that was the one time they didn’t listen at all. ;)
But no one is saying they should listen to EVERYTHING of course, just some of the more obvious things and Q was a no-brainer. He was always going to show up in some form once we got into a post-Nemesis era again because he’s very popular and nothing stops him from showing up anytime or anywhere. I wouldn’t be surprised he showed up in Discovery or Prodigy next. Suddenly people who hated season 1 of Picard are now excited again over the prospects. They can still hate it, but having Q is going to get more interest. Same reason why they brought the Borg back. And yes, we will see them again for sure too.
And yeah we certainly agree pretty much everyone from the cast will show up eventually, assuming they want to come back. But again, none of this surprises me. They are trying to get old fans to like these shows. It only make sense you bring back the characters fans have loved for decades if they think that will get one more person to subscribe. That’s why we got Pike and Spock for an entire season on a ship neither one ever station on and a show called Star Trek Picard.
Just as long as they do it well, I don’t have any issues with it.
Anyone else suprized that Goldsman is still listed as co-showrunner for Picard?
One supposes that he really held down that role until Terry Matalas came on board, but one wonders if he’ll stay in that role for more than the one season given SNW seems to be his dream project.
Yeah a little. It’s amazing how much clout he has on all these shows.
I guess that screenplay Oscar for A Beautiful Mind continues to pull weight.
In reading the full interview on THR, I noted that Goldsman is also involved in an unrelated cinematic feature of Firestarter. So he’s doing more than Trek.
He comments that the previous Firestarter film wasn’t close to the book. That one is currently in preproduction in Hamilton Ontario, about an hour west of Mississauga. The production company name isn’t familiar so it suggests that Secret Hideout / ViacomCBS aren’t the only claim on his time.
In any event between the film and needing to go back to shoot some additional scenes for the SNW premiere episode (that couldn’t be done due to Covid restrictions on how many could be on set), it sounds as though he’ll be back in the GTHA after a stint working on Picard in California.
Just like Logan’s Oscar for THE AVIATOR, pulling weight for a film that only minimally reflects his very early involvement.
Can’t wait to see the Big E back in Action (the 1701, no bloody A, B, C, D… I)!!! She looked great in Discovery!!!
More important though is please let it be more starship on the frontier without the phoning home for Mommy and Daddy to tell them what to do or sending help.
Also more learning about the unknown rather than preaching about how great we are with little to learn (as with Picard and the Q).
As for Q, like rests, lame. Q snaps his fingers, boom, Picard ain’t a jerk where on his watch he builds an evacuation fleet with robots programmed to act like slaves and then doesn’t ditch his friends? I guess Riker kid is saved, but why about all the Starfleet officers killed at Worf 359? Guess they ain’t worth Picard asking Q to fix.
Since when does Q take requests from Picard?
And no bloody E or F, either, LOL!
The Q can’t just snap their fingers and change whatever they want in the universe. They have their own version of a prime directive. They made this very clear in True Q.
The Q don’t interfere except Encounter at Farpoint, Q Who and Tapestry.
Also sorry about the spelling mistake – “rests” is supposed to be resets (like time travel resets), I can’t stand those. What was the whole point of the story when you can just reset it all and do it again (unless you “accidentally” decide not go back in time enough to save your family and ship?)?
Which Q had been reprimanded for by the Continuum and why he was ousted in “Deja Q”. They are not suppose to tamper with other life forms or their destinies and made that clear numerous times.
Now, THAT SAID, yes, it’s still Star Trek, so there is plenty to contradict that lol. “Death Wish” is a good example of that when Q tried to kill himself and Q argued why he shouldn’t die because he influenced multiple people throughout history, including Riker’s own ancestors. He was commended for it, not condemned. So I’m not pretending they haven’t gone against this idea, but there is still a difference between changing one person’s life versus snapping your fingers and create whole sale changes to the universe because you can. Q has never done that.
And yes, they are hinting that Q may change Picard’s destiny in season 2, but of course we have no idea what that entails yet if he does at all.
And if they could banish Q from the Continuum and take away his powers, why didn’t they just do that to Amanda Rogers instead of threatening to kill her?
Yeah that’s a great point that never made any sense. If you’re that worried about her using her powers just take them away. She never wanted to even be a Q in the first place. I’m not sure why they couldn’t just resolve it that way but I guess someone just decided that would be a better dramatic ending.
He totally interfered in All Good Things. He flat out TOLD Picard the answer to his test! At least in Tapestry he imparted a lesson. In AGT Picard learned nothing except to rely on Q to give him the answers to everything.
So their society has rules against it. But they still very well could.
Of course. And it’s Star Trek, people break their own rules practically every episode including the Federation. ;)
But the Q has never actually changed society on any profound level (that we know of lol). Every time Q does something like AGT, it’s usually reverted back to the way it was. It’s never anything permanent.
But yes Q has certainly interfered many times, Q Who being the biggest which DID have a profound change on the alpha quadrant. But then others can argue he simply introduced an element (the Borg) that Starfleet was going to eventually run into anyway since they were already near Federation territory that we learned in The Neutral Zone.
I consider that line to be one of the top 3 lines ever uttered on TNG.
And we share a similar opinion of Q. He was never scary even in Encounter at Farpoint. (where he wasn’t scary because the episode was so ham fisted it was hard to take seriously) It became very obvious very quickly that Q was not a scary figure where no real stakes were ever involved. But more of a clown who just needed Picard and his minions for fun. His appearances meant a comedic episode more than anything else.
The only way Q works for me now is if he is pretty much sadistic, that he has been toying with primitive humans. Picard plays along while secretly discovering how to separate our universe from the Q universe to save us all (Higgs field collapse or something?).
Outside of that, the whole Q story is a joke with us preaching to Q while he snaps somethings, doesn’t snap others. Picard happy that he can redo his first meeting with a girlfriend, doesn’t plead for the guy to save officers he killed at Wolf 359. Give me a break.
Cool! I am looking forward to Strange New Worlds, Prodigy and new seasons of current Star Trek shows, whether they would rule or drool. Hopefully, I would see what the Connie-class Enterprise should have looked like in Discovery.
I think they did great on the Connie-class in Discovery, wish all the Starfleet ships had looked along those lines (Kelvinverse other starfleet ships but with the Discovery Constitution – perfect) going up against some D-6/7 looking Klingon battle cruisers.
Okay fine, yes, I think they should have gone with the straight nacelle plyons, but other than that, thumps up. lol I’ll live with the angled pylons.
Well, I’ve actually been very happy with the Enterprise bridge set and the uniforms on DSC. The only thing I truly hate is that ugly oversized engineering shot on Short Treks. I hope they get rid of that and replace it by a beautiful Trek-ish engineering set. But we will see…
I don’t get why they can’t take the TMP engineering and TOSize/CGI it – add a big control panel displays on either side with two levels and an inter-mix chamber heading back to the nacelles or an impulse engine deck (with an intermix chamber in the middle heading down (depending on if you you believe engineering is on the saucer ahead of the impulse engines or in the secondary hull). I’d go with the intermix horizontal and then say that the engineering in TOS was the main just fore of the impulse engines engineering.
@Cmd. Bremmon: TMP warpcore with TOS/ENT shiny violet inter-mix glow… Definitely feeling orgasmic tendencies, Sir!
I think the fact that you could see an intermix chamber running the length of the ship (with the vertical chamber going all the way up to the dilithium crystal whatever on the back of the saucer) with blast doors, engineers running around is way more exciting than anything “big” given it now connects with the story elements and there is lots happening.
Same with the bridge, a big bridge where we get to watch a Captain in a chair with a door behind him/her will never be as visually entertaining as a Captain in a rotating chair surrounded by crew doing things with computers displaying data in the background.
Also blinking hard drive lights – not cool.
Yeah wasn’t too happy with that engineering shot either. It just looked waaaaay too big. But ‘big’ is very in with the Kelvin movies and now these shows. I wouldn’t mind seeing something similar to original TOS engineering design, just updated of course.
Momentarily I’m having quite radical visions of what may happen to Star Trek on Paramount+ over the next couple of years.
If SNW becomes a huge success (by significatly boosting the subsription numbers), they may actually re-evaluate their take on modern Star Trek TV.
So far, DSC and PIC (as well as LDS to some extend) tried hard to modernize Trek in order to compete with darker, serialized shows such as GoT, NuBSG or EXP. But what if they’ve been wrong about it? What if the majority of fans would like a return to its roots? What if even the younger generation are craving for some optimistic counterprogramming and episodic approach? Especially after that bleak pandemic? Who says young people are not open to a more relaxed, affirmative and positive outlook into the future, replacing grim fear and despair with hope and optimism?
If the numbers for SNW are through the roof, we might get some of these developments:
DSC in completely revamped in S5… They are using the spore drive to start exploring other galaxies, giving us weekly adventures in places no one had gone before…
PIC might be radically changed. S2 could end with Worf’s Big E coming to rescue. La Sirena is destroyed or crippled and Picard and his new friends make themselves comfortable aboard the Enterprise-E. S3 would be set aboard the Enterprise with Picard being reinstated into Starfleet and taking command once again, with some (if not all) TNG characters reuniting and joining forces with the surviving La Sirena crew. Shortly before it goes online, S3 of PIC may be rebranded and sold as TNG Season 8…leading to yeat another epic boost in subscription numbers…
Section 31 is reworked into a fun Whovian time travel show named “Guardians of Forever” with Philippa G, Gary Seven and Isis exploring Trek’s past and future, visiting all ages of known (and unknown) Trek as well as actual human and alien history… A focus will be on the ancient empires such as the T’Kon and the Iconians, the First Ones who brought human life to the galaxy and also the Conspiracy Parasites for a slightly darker angle… We may also observe the birth of the Borg, the formation of the Dominion, the Rise of the Voth, the Age of Kahless, the Vulcan-Romulan separation, a Klingon Shakespeare on Earth, Spock’s forefather Sherlock Holmes etc… and once a season a Trials and Tribble-ations style episode expanding upon and crossing over into a classic Trek.
The mysterious 2023 movie may set up a TNG reboot in the KT, a more cerebral take on NuTrek boldly going out there to explore the unkown on a blasting cinematic budget of 120 million maximum… The movies inspiring this new NextGen will NOT be Star Wars or Marvel but movies such as Arrival, Annihilation and Avatar…
THIS IS A STAR TREK:-)
That is not to say that there isn’t plenty of potential for darker Trek if done right. Those however I would do as limited mini-series with 8-10 episodes:
RINGSHIP ENTERPRISE: A pre-Archer look at the early colonisation of the solar system told from the POV if Earth’s first starship Enterprise, the famous ringship that can be seen in TMP… Trek’s take on The Expanse!
DARK HORIZON: The Romulan Wars from the POV of Captain Alexander Chase, lone survivor of the Kobayashi Maru and his valiant crew aboard the USS Horizon… Trek: Above and Beyond
CETI ALPHA CHRONICLES: Khan’s exile on Ceti Alpha V with extensive flashbacks to the Eugenics Wars
STARGAZERS: A bizarr dark comedy take on the final adventures of the USS Stargazer starring Tom Hardy as a young, reckless Jean-Luc Picard… The Orville with a dark twist… and a three-color pattern for the famous monster maroon uniforms :-)
The problem now is that laws and rules in the industry shy away from any plots mentioned in places like bulletin boards, because the producers don’t want someone showing up and saying “Hey you stole my idea I want $$ and/or credit!” So it might be best to keep your favorite ideas to yourself :)
This is why they never use the plots and, for the most part from what I’ve seen, characters from the Star Trek books in the actual series (I can’t think of any characters that came from the books into the series but there must be one or two.. right?). If they use a character from a book they have to give credit (and $) to the creator of the character. Maybe Star Wars can afford that but not so much Paramount and Trek (or perhaps more accurately, Paramount is more parsimonious). And even Star Wars decided to ignore the old books and judiciously pick and choose characters from the new books (which carried over from the old ones, like Thrawn) to avoid too much in the way of external credits and royalties needed.
Well, that didn’t prevent Paramount from using “my” Star Trek Beyond title suggestion :-) I mentioned it about 8 years ago under a different moniker while Bob Orci was a regular poster and reader on this site :-) His script didn’t make it, the title stayed. But rest assured, I don’t want any money :-) They can also use my next title “Star Trek Forever” for the sequel (which probably they will :-))
As far as those ideas are concerned: they are basically no-brainers and formerly rejected concepts… Most of them had already been considered at one point or another. So no; i won’t hold back on suggesting to revisit these neat concepts… NOT ONE BIT.
It is my job bringing them up again as a fan… And it is their job to do whatever we want :-) Those “laws and rules” are pointless as each and every idea possible has been floating around the genre for decades and someone always will accuse you of copyright infringements…
But the difference is: I’m not one of those people sueing Paramount or CBS for “stealing” my ideas! I would PAY money to get them made! I actually did, when my Viacom stocks crashed due to a capital increase :-) This was the first time I didn’t lose any sleep over losing money at the stock market.
Well, they hadn’t taken my money via TrekUnited in 2005, so I shoved it down their throats via the stock market… That felt so good. The rise was just like in those Paramount+ trailers. Then a handsome man in a tuxedo took all my money and sent us back down Mount Paramount, accompanied by SpongeBob singing “Sweet, sweet victory”… So surreal… Exactly the way it was supposed to be.
Because after all, I would sell my life and soul to them for any of this to get made…
Also, CBS has recently been very upfront with re-using formerly rejected concepts to some degree. We got Disco based on one of those 70s Enterprise refit designs. We also got some sort of Fall of the Federation plot in DSC S3 discussed back in the early aughties. We got to see the Guardian of Forever again, only a few years after Harlan Ellison’s passing. So I’m confident more of these missed opportunities will be exploited shortly… I keep my fingers crossed for Macha Hernandez on SNW…
People like the creator of that Tardigrade videogame should stop sueing TPTB for copyright infringements. On the other hand, CBS must stop sueing projects like Axanar… Abandon all restrictions on both ends, set creativity free… and support the best of those fan films with official releases and monetary support… “Where No Fan Has Gone Before” could become an official anthology brand…
Turn the rules upside-down and unleash a win-win situation for both the studio and eager fans. Both parties will profit one way or another and Trek could become a real family…
my feeling are, as usual, i think that the tos uniforms in the jj abrams films look absolutely extra-splendid
I hope uniforms in strange new world look just the same as this!
if they only get rid of the roller coaster turbo lift shafts, that would be enough
It would be a start. Certainly not enough.
I’m a little concerned about the bit in the THR interview where he says Picard being a synth isn’t going to affect his character at all. I hope that’s just clumsy wording; I don’t think anyone is asking that Picard get superpowers, but essentially saying there’s going to be no deeper exploration of his feelings on the matter would make the whole thing feel incredibly cheap.
One of the dumbest things ever to do with Picard. Maybe A can fix that.
Well, if there were going to be an easy way to go “Yeah, let’s not” on that development, it would be Q. And if they’re not going to even address it again, might as well.
I honestly think there is a decent change that ultimately Q is going to make Picard human again. Why else bring him back?
The real problem is that anytime something happens to him someone could just write a few lines of code and viola! Fixed! The idea that he is the same is complete hogwash.
Don’t get me wrong, I do like they seem to be listening to legacy fans. That said, minor set and uniform changes are ok, but I hope they don’t try to give it too quaint a look to a show that was produced almost six decades ago.
We certainly won’t get cardboard sets and paper planets but that’s not the point. Early DSC and PIC have tried to infuse some toxic elements into Star Trek to make it more appealing to contemporary viewers. They have already removed some elements and fixed many aspects but they need to go all the way.
That is not to say that we want 60s human-looking Klingons, but Klingons have hair and beards. Same with the Big E… The sets need to be more realstic and detailed, but they can’t look like from another universe or era as the DSC sets did… Or content: yes, Trek can have spooky haunted starships and creative body horror but never ever do I want to see eyeballs ripped out in close ups, severed baby heads and Klingon torture sex scenes…
I think it’s that path back to the roots I’ve always been rooting for… DSC and PIC tried something new, something contemporary that just didn’t work…
Agreed on most of what you said. I know the producers probably like the fact they are no longer tied to prime time rules for tv content, but perhaps they should still use the common sense test when it comes to violent horror. If it wouldn’t pass FCC content rules for prime time television, then get rid of it!
Agreed. I don’t need plastic jewel buttons, fake pipes on the walls or unnecessary grills, etc. But I’d like to see things a little brighter/cleaner/simpler, design-wise, overall.
Honestly I don’t think it’s going to be any different from what we seen in Discovery. It’s no way they would go back THAT drastic lol. I think they are just saying they are making cosmetic changes mostly. The show will look just as modern as updated and before. It will just be stuff like lighting, set changes, color schemes etc.
I have ALWAYS said (like many) that if you want to put a show in the TOS era, you can still have it look like TOS without it looking like TOS. ;) How they did the Enterprise in Discovery was exactly what most of us was talking about. So I’m happy how it was done and expect them to continue that direction.
Tiger2, since SNW is being produced at CBS Stages Mississauga, they would have had to break down and move the NCC-1701 bridge set from Discovery S2.
So, it’s not surprising that, having to rebuild it, they also tweaked it.
As for the rest, the turbolift, quarters, corridors and transporter rooms were all redressed from Discovery sets.
Again, I can see why Goldsman would have wanted to tweak them. Tamara Deverell (the Discovery production designer who did the S2 Enterprise) was very proud of the the bridge, but said that if she’s been able to do so Spock’s quarters and some of the other spaces wouldn’t have been quite as she had to make them to work within the constraints of redressing Discovery sets.
Dude, where do you find all the info on this stuff lol. It’s like you work on the show sometimes. I know you live where a lot of this is being made, but I grew in L.A. and most of the shows and movies were made just 30 minutes from my house and I couldn’t tell you anything this specific about any of it.
Glad to at least hear that they opted to try and bring SNW in line with the era it is supposed to be in. My personal preference is to make the show more episodic but can certainly live with an underlying season long mission, provided its done well. The problem is, SH has a history of saying things that sound promising but end up not being anything like what they said.
Regarding the Q part, I think Akiva is overestimating the Q-Picard relationship. A lot. It was obvious throughout the run of TNG that Picard absolutely loathed the Q and everything they stood for. It was entirely a one sided relationship and it wasn’t important to the character of Picard or the show. It feels a little like S2 Star Trek Discovery when they spoke of Spock’s smile in “The Cage” and decided to make something out of that. This is what they are doing with Q. Q is not important to Picard or Star Trek.
In the past, Q worked best when he was a clown needling Picard. Now if Akiva can make a 10 episode arc that works out of that then more power to him.
My honest to goodness hope is that the entire season is just an excuse to get Q to make Picard human again. To reverse the terrible decision to make robo-Picard in S1.
I think they are missing a big opportunity to link robo-Picard arc with the Borg. I am actually shocked that it isn’t what Season 2 is about honestly (the Borg revealing they have been rebuilding farming the Federation for tech, now out to capture robo-Picard/Soong that they can ‘evolve’ without assimilation).
Without this S1… what was with the whole Borg plot – all build up and no delivery?!?
It certainly was a lost opportunity. Bringing in Seven and Hugh and the Borg led straight to a Borg storyline and a kind of personal reckoning for them. Could have been interesting if they all took the same event and each had their own separate takeaways from it. But no… They just used the Borg as a chance to show them and that was about it. It was an unfulfilled side trip when the main story was about Picard becoming a robot. Which is a bit ironic because one could argue he kinda already was as much a robot as a flesh and blood human could be.
So strange!!! Why would you not have it where the Season starts and the Borg Queen is like “It has happened” and the Cube show up to hunt Picard (and by extension Soong/Synths?!?) – a threat so scary Data didn’t want to come back because the odds of success were so low? And then robo-Picard, Soong and Synths must figure out how to escape without dooming billions?
I thought that was the connection to all these Borg refugees, that they are the only ones who would get the magnitude of the threat and what it would mean for robo-Picard to end up robo-Locutus if captured.
I don’t get it… I thought a retoothed Borg that was slowly planning a come back was in the cards for sure, and given Best of Both Worlds was actually good Trek to me, this actually seemed worth watching vs. more holodeck resets analogs with Q (while we preach to him!).
With the money they’re spending and the freedom of streaming, this should feel more like HBO and less like NCIS: Starfleet.
I liked Fringe when Goldsman was running it — but it was a pretty campy, silly show. I’m wondering if we’re seeing the Maurice Hurley Effect here: 90s/2000s producer who doesn’t get Trek and doesn’t get 2021 television.
I hope not. Goldsman was also involved in Titans (with Greg Berlanti, who makes great TV, and Geoff Johns), which was campy but mostly fun.
The irony is that Akiva Goldsman is a HUGE Trek fan and has watched it literally since the 60s. So he clearly gets and understands Star Trek. A former poster here once called him Akiva Superfan which I laughed hard because he constantly tells people in interviews his Trek resume and how much the franchise means to him. And I don’t doubt it at all.
But it also proves you can still love and understand something and come up with bad ideas just like anyone. And I’ll give Goldsman credit, it’s not like everything he presented as bad but ironically he seems to be like Roddenberry himself and that is when he collaborates with others it turns out better but when he has more control, it’s not always great.
The showrunners for all seasons of Fringe were Jeff Pinkner and/or J.H. Wyman, although Goldsman had a hand in writing many episodes (and directed some).
What did Goldsman smoke? A deep profound relationship like with Riker,… Q tortured the crew on multiple occasions, also caused a lot of trouble, … That like the notion where a hostage feels connected to the hostage taker? Don’t get me wrong I liked Disco S3, Lower Decks is awesome, but Goldsman is nuts. Edit: Also his talk about how you need a story before you shoot a season when it’s so serialized is hypocritical BS, just watch S1 of Picard and what was botched together mid-season, so we got Naphente,… because they realized how fans would have loved it and course corrected.
I’m kinda hoping we get a little bit of the insignia disparity that was present in TOS. It would be neat to see some of those other non Delta insignia badges return
The takeaway from Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is that there was no need to do a reboot (i.e. the “Kelvin Timeline”). They just needed to get people who care about Star Trek and new actors to play the existing roles.
Spock: Captain Pike, I see that we are definitely going with the higher cost bridge for our missions.
Pike: Don’t use the word cost, Spock. You’re acting like the Federation is using latinum instead of fitcoins, which can only be mined by us improving our physical and mental wellbeing. The more fitcoins the bridge costs, the more people will have to better themselves.
Spock: Fascinating.
Pike: I swapped out that bridge we used on the Rigel and first Talos missions into quantum storage. I’ll hand it over to my successor. Considering how lazy Starfleet is getting my successor won’t have enough fitcoins on hand to get a fancy bridge, just a dated retro one. Not that I’m complaining. I heard that young kid–whatshisname–Grames Tiberian Quirk, or Kork, or whatever, is angling for my job. The one who cheated on the Kobayashi Maru. Let him have the cheap stuff.
Continuation:
Spock: “Are you insinuating that this will be the cheap rejected bridge model whose consoles tend to explode?”
Pike: “Well, he surpassed the Kobayashi Maru test, so he knows how to handle exploding consoles.”
This (SNW) IS your father’s Star Trek!
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that you’re right about this.
Come, come Mr. Scott. Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant.
I didn’t know “City on the Edge of Forever” was hard sci fi. Who knew?