The Strange New Worlds segment of the Star Trek Day celebration included stars Anson Mount, Ethan Peck, and Rebecca Romijn, and executive producers Akiva Goldsman and Henry Alsonso Myers. While they were careful not to reveal big spoilers, they did say enough for us to learn some interesting information about the sets, Captain Pike, and Spock.
Mica Burton interviews the Strange New World actors and producers
Making the Enterprise come to life
While a few sets for the USS Enterprise were created for season two of Star Trek: Discovery, we can see in the character reveal video released last week that those have been updated, and new sets have been created for Strange New Worlds. Co-showrunner Henry Alonso Myers spoke about the approach taken to recreating the Enterprise:
When you are on it, the set feels like a spaceship. It feels like we built a spaceship. Everything works. You touch things, they react. All the monitors are running things. We have an incredible motion graphics department that comes up with different things that appear on the monitors in response to what our characters are doing. You forget you are on a soundstage in Toronto.
The character video provided us with some glimpses of a few of the sets, giving a bit of a sense of what Myers was talking about.
This shot of Jess Bush as Nurse Chapel shows part of the USS Enterprise sickbay
Later, Myers spoke specifically about the transporter room set as his favorite connection to TOS:
It’s a little like I remember going to see Star Trek: The Motion Picture after watching The Original Series and being, “Oh my god, they have all the money, they have all the special effects!” To me, the most exciting thing about [Strange New Worlds] was seeing just the transporter room, and seeing what you can do with the transporter room like in a contemporary production context, which is quite a lot. It comes to life in a way you don’t even quite realize until you are standing right in front of it.
The transporter room was also featured in the character video.
Ethan Peck (Spock) on the USS Enterprise transporter room set
Pike’s quarters get a facelift… and a kitchen
One particular set got a lot of attention. When asked what non-spoiler thing they could share about shooting Strange New Worlds, Anson Mount spoke effusively about Pike’s quarters:
The sets are really next level, the first time I got to see the captain’s quarters… they’re the coolest captain’s quarters. Our production designer Jonathan Lee just did such a phenomenal job of maintaining the classic look with the mid-century modern esthetic from the late ’60s—I think you’ll see an homage to that, along with a more modern take.
Co-creator Akiva Goldsman added more about Pike’s quarters:
There’s not that much we really know about Captain Pike… we started talking about what kind of leader Captain Pike was… in just getting to know Anson… he gets the group together, he is a leader, and we started talking about how Anson leads, and how he likes to create consensus and how he likes to do that over a table. And we suddenly started redesigning Captain Pike’s quarters to be around a table, to let it be a place where someone can cook for the people who are his crew—that the way to understand how Pike leads is to see Pike’s heart, which is Pike’s kitchen.
There certainly won’t be a console TV, but Strange New Worlds is taking inspiration from the mid-century modern style of The Original Series.
Rocking out on the bridge… and yes, things still explode
When asked what was particularly memorable for her during production, Rebecca Romijn said she was always emotional whenever she stepped on the bridge set. She said that feeling lasted all season long, noting, “It just packs a punch every time you are on that set.” She also pointed out that due to COVID restrictions, shooting on the bridge allowed time for the cast to bond, with a little musical help from the captain:
It was also the only time we got to work together as a cast. Some of the days on the bridge were our longest days. Anson would always come in with literally a boombox blasting rock music on those days. And because we couldn’t hang out off of set, those were the days we got to hang out together like a family. Those bridge days were the best days.
We did get some glimpses of the updated USS Enterprise set in her character reveal video.
Rebecca Romijn as Una Chin-Riley on the updated USS Enterprise bridge set
Co-showrunner Myers was also particularly fond of shooting on the bridge, revealing that’s where we will find classic moments:
There’s a ready room off the bridge where we would place our monitors and I would sit in there when we were doing explosive sequences and you can see the monitor and watch everyone leaping out of the way as the flames blast. I will cherish those moments.
The new bridge set appears to be a bit more compact than it was on Discovery (it looks like the rear corridor that ringed the bridge is gone), which puts it closer in size to the original TOS design.
Anson Mount (Pike) and Celia Rose Gooding (Uhura) on the updated USS Enterprise bridge set
Spock gets back to his viewer
There was also a particular feature of the new bridge set that had Ethan Peck excited. When asked what non-spoiler bit of information he could share, Peck said he was excited to “look into Spock’s view scope a bunch of times” which he didn’t get to do in Discovery season 2 because that Enterprise set didn’t have one.
Spock’s viewer will be back on the bridge in Strange New Worlds
This version of Spock is informed by “The Cage”
During the panel, Ethan Peck teased the producers, asking if he could talk about “Spock’s feelings of love and attraction.”
Goldsman elaborated:
You’ve seen “The Cage” and “Where No Man Has Gone Before,” so you know that on the continuum that is Spock’s life, despite our desire to constantly say “Oh he’s logical,” he’s many things. The waveform of Spock’s journey when it comes to identification as Human or Vulcan and the disciplines attendant to each of those changes of over time, we’ve seen it move. We can’t ignore “smiley Spock,” the Spock that we meet in the original pilot.
A Talosian singing plant briefly amuses Mr. Spock in “The Cage”
Paying off hints of TOS relationships
There were a few hints about the “feelings of love and attraction” mentioned by Peck. When Ethan talked about how it is “wonderful” the show is introducing more legacy characters, Romijn piped in, cryptically adding, “Legacy characters with legacy relationships.” Later in the panel, Goldsman talked about this in the context of one of his favorite tie-ins to TOS on Strange New Worlds:
There were a couple of things to play with as we were re-making it up. One was the hints of relationships that we imagined we saw or knew we saw [on the Original Series] that were never quite fulfilled. Attractions, potential connections made or missed. That was super delightful, because The Original Series was filled with those, and we never really got to really play them through. So we were constantly trying to imagine we were responding to promises we thought were made in the original show.
Putting all of this together, it’s possible we could see the show explore the relationship between Spock and Uhura and/or between Spock and Christine Chapel.
Spock and Chapel in the TOS episode “The Naked Time”
The Enterprise is the star
A recurring theme we have heard since before production even started for Strange New Worlds was how the show was going to be structured more like The Original Series. Now that they have wrapped up the first season, Rebecca Romijn highlighted this as the key difference between the new show and Discovery season two when the USS Enterprise, Number One, Pike, and Spock were reintroduced:
We were shooting standalone episodes and Discovery was a serialized ongoing story. I think the standalone episodes were a big difference for us.
Anson Mount also picked up on this, when asked what was his favorite tie-in to TOS:
The big idea of the week, which makes the Enterprise the star of the show.
SNW Video from Star Trek Day 2021
Here is the full panel video
And in case you missed it, here is just the character reveal video. (And check out our article breaking down all the big news.)
Coming 2022
Strange New Worlds is expected to arrive in 2022. It will be on Paramount+ in the United States, and in Canada it will air on CTV Sci-Fi and stream on Crave. There is no word yet on where fans outside of the USA and Canada will be able to see Strange New Worlds.
More to come
There is still more to come from Star Trek Day, including red carpet interviews and more trailer analysis. So keep reading TrekMovie for our full Star Trek Day coverage.
Keep up with the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
Rewatching “Hell on Wheels” and the chemistry between Colm Meaney and Anson Mount is electric. Maybe we can get O’Brien to time travel back…
I’m glad they’re not ignoring the emotional Spock from the first two pilots. It’s like Smallville in terms of the journey towards becoming the icon the character would become.
Those were draft Spocks, Roddenberry determined the fully developed Spock after them.
Its silly to base Spock off of the unaired pilot.
Although, even TOS later acknowledged the rough draft Spock in The Menagerie, with Kirk taking note of how different Spock was. So it’s not like this is the first time for them to use it.
They used the film from “The Cage” because they needed to 1) save time, and 2) cut costs. Using the footage from the first pilot allowed them to do both. But it wasn’t planned as an evolution for Spock’s character.
And no, Kirk did NOT comment on how different Spock was during “The Menagerie.” All of the comments about whether or not Spock could do this or that were about whether he could LIE and whether he could be disloyal enough to Kirk to steal the ship. His emotionalism in the old footage was NOT mentioned during the episode.
At the end of the episode, Kirk teases Spock about “this regrettable tendency you’ve been showing lately towards flagrant emotionalism.” Notice that word “LATELY.” Kirk is talking about how much emotion it must have taken for Spock to kidnap Pike and plan this whole scheme, NOT about what they saw in the old footage.
The reasons why they made the episode are irrelevant. I mean, it’s interesting behind-the-scenes trivia but holds little bearing to what we the audience were presented.
As for Kirk, my memory was a bit fuzzy. He doesn’t exactly point out how Spock was different but he does note this in his log:
“…actual images from thirteen years ago of Captain Pike as he was when he commanded this vessel, of Spock in those days, and of how the Enterprise had become…”
Actual images and In those days being the operative words here. They’re acknowledging the passage of time and whatever differences we’re seeing.
Good points, but I think producers should feel free to ignore some of those little things that were presented just once, and rarely reference, and could be easily retconned.
The real life reason of having SFX limitations are why we are getting a visual reboot, and I 100% support that. If they want to gloss over Spock’s emotional evolution, I can accept that too.
They should absolutely feel free to ignore them, or not, as they see fit. Being the people in charge, it’s their call to make.
But this only applies to the footage that was actually part of “The menagerie”. Things that were seen in The Cage only, are not part of that consideration, and thus, not part of canon.
Oh, for crying out loud. Some fans spend WAY too much time on “canon.” That kind of discussion entirely misses the forest for the trees. Plus… The Cage is canon.
thanks for being a voice of reason….
It doesn’t matter why or how that footage was used to produce “The Menagerie.” The point is that it was, and that, therefore, Young Spock’s behavior in the episode is as “canon” as anything else in the franchise. I’ve been in this rodeo for quite awhile and can remember very well reading early fanzines where people were creatively accounting for the character’s behavior in the pilots, with varying degrees of success. No one gets to gatekeep who the “real” Spock is, sorry.
I don’t recall that happening.
Exactly. It’s been said before and warrants being said it again. Nimoy said he smiled because he was asked to by the Director. The Spock character was not developed really in any significant way yet. Trying to mine characterizations from one second of screen time in a pilot that wasn’t supposed to be seen by anyone is pure full hardiness. It just feels like fake fandom. Producers and writers are using that moment to say “see?” Look how great of fans we are that we know about this.” It’s weak.
I agree that the footage from “The Cage” should NOT be considered part of Spock’s character arc. But I’m not sure that Goldsman is going in this direction to show that he knows about it. I think he believes that exploring Spock’s emotions is something the fandom will have trouble resisting, assuring him of many viewers.
The fact that we’ll be viewing in horror and dismay if he goes down that path seems to have escaped his notice…
What I have learned is it doesn’t really matter what I think, the writers will do what they want… what does matter is whether what they do with the character/s will keep me coming back for more or not… that is to be seen … ya dig :)
I remember, along with you and others, saying it was totally not necessary to base a character smiling from a 50 year old pilot. That was the original Spock character but said he was changed later in the first season. It seemed kind of silly to make a new back story around him smiling for a second in The Cage. So yeah, full agreement.
But same time guys, this is all moot now. They canonize ‘Smiley Spock’ a year ago on Discovery when this all first came up. The guy was super emotional from angry to happy to sad depending on the situation of the episode. And then they doubled down on it in the Short Treks Q and A.
I understand and completely agreed not making Spock based on The Cage. But they already did it! We’re not arguing about Spock from 50 years ago now, but from a year ago. The Spock we saw on Discovery was already a supposed extension of him in The Cage, so of course they were going to continue it. I’m surprised that others are surprised about it. They are only affirming what they already done.
This is the Spock we have now. That boat has sailed awhile ago.
Indeed, and wasn’t it in one of the Short Treks where we see the brief return of early shouty Spock? They’ve already gone back to his early self.
Uh huh!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kadlAj8x1xc
Yes it’s 2019 all over again lol. We’ve already had this discussion several years ago. They turned him into Smiley Spock long ago. Not sure why we are suddenly having it again like it’s a new revelation?
Shouty Spock is not the same as smiley Spock.
Yes, that is what they did. And continuing on that path instead of making a needed course correction is a tremendous mistake. It’s doubling down on that mistake. This is a separate show. There was nothing that required they make Spock the same exact way they presented him on Star Trek Discovery. They easily could have said, “yeah, we are going to do Spock this way, not that way.” That boat didn’t sail until we see SNW and see for sure if they continued with that mistake. Them saying things before the show airs, we have learned, do not always reflect what actually is seen on screen.
Agreed, ML31. Real life reasons can be taken into account here, just as they are for the visuals. We can and should do better than cardboard sets designed for new color TV sets, we shouldn’t dry to squeeze a story out of one moment that occurred because they had no idea what they were really doing with the character.
That’s an excellent point. You update the sets to evoke the feel of the past sets while still making it look good for current day audiences. It’s an “inside baseball” decision. Yet they ignore that aspect when they see Nimoy smile as an unexplored character whose traits were not fleshed out yet and did so only because the director thought it would play well on screen. THAT’s important to hold onto but the brighter sets are not?
Why not, if it’s a good story? Because it personally doesn’t jibe with your conception of a fictional character at a point in his life that was heretofore (mostly) unseen? That’s not a good enough reason, sorry.
It was aired as The Menagerie – canon.
Intention matters, not just what happens to make it on the air. And the intention wasn’t to make Spock have a history of emotional behavior in the past; the intention was to save time and money by using old footage.
Says who? It’s on screen. They could have cut that scene. Regardless, that’s what they’re exploring here. Peck is a good actor, so I am intrigued.
“The fact that we’ll be viewing in horror and dismay”
Speak for yourself. I’m excited.
Sorry, smiley Spock is just as canon as shouty Spock.
Yep. And both are inconsistent with the Spock we “know.”
Kirk says, “That’s impossible. Mister Spock, no vessel makes record tapes in that detail, that perfect.”
Spock, in testifying that these “tapes” are, indeed, a more perfect representation of 13 years ago than any Federation ship’s log could ever be, makes the Spock depicted in them canon.
No, sorry to disagree, but in the arts “intention” is important only to biographers and other dilettantes. To audiences, all that matters is the finished work.
Even if people will debate that, it’s canon now. Spock in Discovery was already based on what we saw in The Cage. So its been canon for a year already. Not sure what the argument is anymore?
Because just because Spock in Star Trek Discovery was like that doesn’t mean Spock in Strange New Worlds needs to be.
Regardless man, you can’t be shocked right? They ALREADY did it. Are you surprised they would continue the same direction, especially since most fans seem to like this version of Spock? I remember ALL the arguments about it the FIRST time this was brought up with him. The show aired, Spock eventually showed up with his emotional baggage and people just shrugged. I don’t get why now it would be a huge issue? I guess it will still be for some fans but as this entire board is proving not for most. Nor should it be at this point IMO.
I’m not sure you are understanding. Strange New Worlds is a completely different show from Star Trek Discovery. There is absolutely nothing that forces them to go in the same direction that Star Trek Discovery went with the Spock character. That’s why it’s being discussed again. It wouldn’t be the first time. Remember when they changed the Klingons? And that was the same show. This is a completely different show. It is possible, albeit unlikely, that the Strange New Worlds people would say we’re going to fix an error that Star Trek Discovery made.
All the characters on SNW are a extension from Discovery. They are not rebooting the show, it’s suppose to be the SAME Pike, Spock and Number One we saw on Discovery. And I’ll say it again, they doubled down on it with the Short Trek Q and A. I’m not sure what people thought would be all that different when they spent SEVEN episodes showing a very different Spock on Discovery. I agree they can show him as the Spock we know but same time the point is they now have a different to play with the character and show a different side of him since nothing in canon contradicts that. And they can just make him closer to the Spock we know by the end of the series, so none of this is a big issue.
That’s just the reality.
I agree completely! Spock was emotional during the first pilot because Number One was supposed to be the emotionless one then. At the time, Roddenberry hadn’t yet figured out who he wanted Vulcans to be. Basing Spock on the first-draft version is just ridiculous.
We were never supposed to SEE the first pilot; it was pressed into service as part of “The Menagerie” only because production had fallen behind, and they needed to buy themselves some time.
So Spock’s emotionalism in “The Cage” was NOT supposed to be part of the final conceptualization of his character. The Spock we know from TOS is a man who is very determinedly Vulcan and who finds his human ancestry an embarrassment and an annoyance, and it was only the events of the movies that made Spock more comfortable with his emotions.
Making SNW Spock into an emotional person will drastically change the meaning of the character and will undo some of what Spock has meant for the past 55 years.
Ruining Spock will not make anybody happy.
“Making SNW Spock into an emotional person will drastically change the meaning of the character and will undo some of what Spock has meant for the past 55 years.”
They already did that in Discovery season 2 though. I know I’m not the only one here who watched it. I remember a few of you. ;)
It will just be a continuation of that character. But as the show goes on, then they will make him closer to Spock of the TV show.
But it’s weird how people are talking about in the future tense. This guy was bouncing off the walls in Discovery already.
But that was because the visions from the Red Angel drove Spock insane, not because he was just like that. I accept that even Spock will be different while insane. :-)
I don’t buy that. It was very very clear Spock had emotional issues over Burnham leaving and the things she said to him that hurt him. They were never resolved at all. The point is we saw a VERY emotional Spock on the show. He was more angry than smiling most of the time…at least when he was with Michael lol. So I don’t really see the point now it’s some huge deal.
This is the Spock we have now. I didn’t think it was needed, but now that it was done, it’s kind of a shrug at this point because we know eventually he will just become the Spock on TOS eventually. I have to admit, as fans we over think this stuff a lot. They are not destroying the character, they are just taking him in another angle in a period of his life that has never been explored. The guy is half human. And yeah, since most people seem to really like his emotional state on Discovery I doubt it’s going to be a big issue he’s more emotional on SNW.
I find this discussion a bit odd. Of course the differences between the Cage and the rest of TOS were because it was from an earlier conception of the series and its characters, but that doesn’t mean the differences aren’t relevant in-universe. The uniforms are different because they redesigned them for a weekly series; the captain is different because Jeffrey Hunter wasn’t available to come back for the second pilot; the sets are different because they fiddled with them and built new ones after the first pilot, etc. But one of the genius things about using the old footage in THE MENAGERIE is that it brought those differences into the fictional world of Star Trek, instantly giving the characters, the ship, and the universe a feeling of TIME. The uniforms were different because time had passed. The captain was different because he was Kirk’s predecessor who had been promoted. The ship had had some upgrades.
And Spock used to smile, but he doesn’t any more.
They chose to leave Spock’s smile in the footage they reused to tell their new story, and when they did that it became part of Spock’s past. I don’t mean to do the old-timer thing, but back in the 1970s and 1980s, before TNG or most of the movies ever happened, when the sum total of canonical Trek was 78 episodes, fans were talking about Spock’s character change as in-universe character growth. We speculated that this was soon after his falling-out with Sarek, when he rejected his dad’s Vulcan plans for him, and he was playing with embracing human perspectives. We speculated that it was this looser, more experimental Spock who had the fling with Leila Kalomi. It was part of who we understood the character to be.
So I am perfectly happy with them exploring that side of Spock in the series. It fits with the understanding I’ve had about the character as a viewer for 45 years.
“Making SNW Spock into an emotional person will drastically change the meaning of the character and will undo some of what Spock has meant for the past 55 years.”
We’ve seen emotional Spock in TOS (This Side of Paradise, Naked Now, etc).
Also see: the movies, Discovery, Star Trek 2009, etc.
The character progressed pretty remarkably over the years (Nimoy’s portrayal was different in every film).
This is a new version of the character from years before we met him in TOS. People change and grow. We’re adults who know this isn’t real. They’re not erasing TOS episodes. Nothing will be undone.
That said, if he’s suddenly Jerry Lewis, then I’ll be alarmed.
Like a lot of folks here, I’ve seen at least as much Trek – and read as much behind the scenes stuff – as you have, so I’m not crazy about the condescending “I know Trek better” stuff.
You don’t like this direction, fine. But maybe keep the pitchfork down until after it actually airs.
Goodness, I certainly never stated — and never intended to imply — that I know Star Trek better than everybody else. It seemed to me that people were forgetting or overlooking certain things I thought were important, so I reminded people of those things.
As for “The Naked Time” and “This Side of Paradise,” those weren’t NORMAL Spock; they were Spock who’d been affected by a substance so that he behaved outside of his usual behavioral parameters. That’s VERY different from making him smile and shout when his usual self-control is in place.
Yes, Spock grew and changed over the course of the movies. I’d hate for that growth to become superfluous because Goldsman decided it should all happen when Spock is 25.
As for the “pitchfork,” we got SNW in the first place because the fandom rose up in a body and begged for it. :-) So I know the current makers of Star Trek monitor at least some of the fan sites. In case they were monitoring this one, I wanted to let THEM know that some fans are concerned about the intentions they’ve voiced.
They already shot the season. Not much could be done either way at this point. And yeah we should at least wait and see what they did first before complaining about something that frankly they already did a year ago on Discovery.
It’s not unaired. The Cage aired on TV years later in its original form. But those scenes of Spock are also in The Menagerie. So it’s not silly at all–it’s reverential. And that’s a GOOD thing.
No, it’s silly to refer to a pilot as “unaired” when the bulk of it was used to produce an iconic, Hugo-winning episode.
Is it playing before or after DSC Season two ?
If I’m understanding your question correctly. From what we can tell this takes place after Discovery season 2.
It’s playing after Discovery season four, and it takes place after season two.
Con-Sole TV! Con-Sole TV! Make it happen guys!! And a blender and a coffee maker, too!!
If I recall correctly Spocks station actually did have his viewer on discovery you can see it when he is sitting down in
That’s what I thought too.
Perhaps some of the “feelings of love and attraction” Peck mentioned have to do with T’Pring. I never saw it here but there was a casting announcement I saw on Twitter a few weeks ago about the actor playing Spock’s betrothed.
If they’re going into Spock’s relationships, he’s technically supposed to meet up with Leila Kalomi in 2261, which by my calculations would be right in the middle of Strange New Worlds.
Also wondering how they’ll deal with the Roger Korby business around the same time with Chapel.
Also, Pike cooks meals for his crew? And Picard wouldn’t even play cards with them after 7 years. Picard’s cold.
Picard, early on, specifically states that he believes as Captain he should have a professional detachment from the crew he commands. It’s pretty clear that stance softened by the end of the run, and continued through the movies.
Even towards the end of Season 6 he’s a lot friendlier with Riker, in Tapestry he’s shown laughing and telling stories at the end. In the films he seems more like a real friend. This is why I am not bothered at ALL by how Raffi speaks to him, and calls him “JL”.
It’s clear that his “mellowing” was part of his character arc, and it makes perfect sense that by the time of his Admiralty he would allow such informality and closeness to those under his command.
/tangent
It’s strange how insistent so many fans are that we should see technology and political change properly projected forward/backwards by 20-30 years (or 900 years) for the various iterations of Trek… but follow the arc of Picard’s personal growth from joining his friends at the poker table? No, then they seem to want everything to remain static. I was delighted by his relationship with Raffi, and particularly touched by his expression of love for her.
Similarly, some fans seem reluctant to follow the path Spock had to navigate to go from the troubled human/vulcan child in TAS to his attempt at Kolinahr in TMP. Whether the Cage Spock is canon or not, that arc is there and I will be fascinated to watch it.
Riker tried out his cooking experiments on the senior officers.
Just different leadership styles that’s all.
TG47 already mentioned Riker! He was basically the cook for the staff.
And Sisko also cooked for his crew quite a bit. But he also had a father as a chef.
Janeway TRIED to cook for her staff at times, but it never went well lol.
I seem to recall Pike inviting Number One to dinner at the very end of one of the novels- Vulcan’s Glory, maybe?
Really looking forward to seeing the Enterprise and her crew visiting strange new worlds while getting to know new lifeforms and new civilizations. I expect we will also get some interesting back stories on legacy characters like Spock, Uhura, Chapel, First Officer Chin-Riley and of course Pike.
For example, we all know the stoic Mr. Spock from TOS, but it is obvious that in the past he experimented with relationships with the likes of Chapel and other humans like Leylah Kolomi the botonist – we will probably get some insight into those relationships. It will also be fun to see cadet Uhura on the prime Enterprise and how she compares with her Kelvin universe counterpart.
Like I said before, can’t wait to see the new (old) voyages of the Starship Enterprise, this time under the command of Christopher Pike.
We learned in “This Side of Paradise” that Leila Kalomi told Spock six years previously that she loved him, BUT it’s pretty clear from that episode that he didn’t love her back during that time six years previously. So it sounds to me as if Leila had an unrequited crush on Spock, not a relationship with him.
Corylea,
If he didn’t already love her, where’d all the Paradise kissyface spring from?
the plant spores is were it came from
What do alien spores know of Human and/or Vulcan love? This reasoning is equivalent to saying in THE NAKED TIME when Spock says he regrets that he never told his mother that he loved her, that his love for her came from the exotic water. I don’t buy it.
He loved his human mother which means he’s capable of loving other humans without telling them.
Vulcans have emotion, they just suppress them. I can totally buy an alien spore acting like marijuana or something like that and releasing Spock’s control over his emotions. But there is no reason why that would have happened while on Pike’s Enterprise.
I agree which is why I mentioned Vulcan love. And if the spores did create some sort of artificial universal hippie dippy love in Spock why was his kisses just focused on that one woman? Logically, shouldn’t he have been feeling artificial romantic love for every woman in the spore net?
Well, he may have picked up something from Discovery’s spores?
Actually absolutely you should ignore smiley Spock. These producers are trying to get a lot of mileage out of that one little scene. Way more than it really deserves. It’s as if they have absolutely no idea of what context is. This is the first bit of bad news but I’ve heard about this show. I really hope it’s the last.
In context, it may not be that bad. It could be simply Spock struggling with emotions as we’ve seen many times before.
I hope you’re right!
I would hope so but we already know Spock was in conflict at the time. He had chosen the Vulcan way by then. Perhaps it would be tough to keep a smile in under the right circumstances but the humming plants? THAT gets it out? I would have thought his self control would be better than that even at such a young age.
“It’s as if they have absolutely no idea of what context is.”
They have the internet just like we do. They know the context.
Then they are either incompetent or just don’t care.
Yes, I’d really, REALLY like for them to ignore the “smiley Spock” that we were never supposed to see in the first place!
The plants send slight electrical impulses that Vulcan facial nerves are sensitive to. Causes Vulcans to involuntarily smile.
>;>)
Hee! Cute! Love it.
That’s as good as “Vulcan skies are seasonal” I guess….
Never supposed to see?
Just because many TOS fans dislike it, doesn’t mean anything of the kind.
Roddenberry took the old black and white version of The Cage to conventions all through the 70s, and more, he said in the 80s that Next Generation was closer to that first concept.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Akiva Goldsman saw The Cage as one of the “films” that were offered at that 1974 Con that he’s saved the program from and posted on Twitter.
Needless to say, I’m in the group of original TOS first run viewers that loved The Cage the first time I saw it, and always loathed The Menagerie because without the missing context of the deleted parts of The Cage, I felt that Spock’s motivation was not adequate.
You keep arguing that we were never supposed to see it.
But it aired. I don’t know of Roddenberry ever disavowing it or of any discussion about editing it out.
But it’s not just that one scene – Nimoy’s portrayal was more emotional in the first few episodes after the pilots (he smirks in Charlie X, if I recall).
Sure, it was Nimoy and the show figuring out the character — but it exists on film and this gives this new show an arc to explore (and, as several have noted here, Discovery and Peck already have).
We’ll see whether or not it works.
Yeah this is true as well. I did a complete rewatch of TOS this year and even I forgot just how much the guy smiled in the first season. The first dozen or so episodes of first season he was smiling, so this is not really a big difference with the character.
And the Spock from the Cage through Discovery was many years before that, so I don’t think it conflicts with anything. I just never thought it was necessary to do. But now since they HAVE done it and it’s been done on Discovery already it doesn’t conflict with Spock from TOS, he’s simply less mature and confident as his younger self compared to then.
Yeah, Spock in the first half of S1 was very different from the character we saw in the last 60-65 episodes of TOS and the movies.
SNW will definitely explore his character pre-TOS along with a lot of charaçter back stories.
Exactly. Spock in first season WAS more emotional, that really can’t be denied because we have eyes. ;)
Yes it wasn’t anything more than a lot of smiles and grins but that changed as it went on.
I also point out Data ALSO smiled more in TNG in first season and that eventually changed too when they developed the character more. The BIGGEST change of any Star Trek character I can think of from their original appearance was neither Spock or Data but Rom on DS9. His character is night and day from his first appearance on the show. He started out basically like Quark did who was very shrewd, cunning and egotistical. That changed a few episodes later when he suddenly became the bumbling, but more lovable Rom we all know today. It is truly amazing how big his transformation was to the point most people don’t seem to remember.
Of course he’s a side character so there isn’t hundreds essays why he went from practically a version of Donald Trump to Homer Simpson overnight, but that’s just how TV works sometime when writers or producers decide to go another way with a character.
So I have always stated like others here and agree with them that these were just actions of characters not truly developed yet in very young shows. And if someone decided not to make a prequel with Spock part of it then it wouldn’t be an issue at all like the last 50 years (another reason why I hate prequels). But it’s still just a TV show and they are just characters, so they can do or change what they want. Hopefully it will be interesting at least.
Yup, makes sense to me. The reason I start to use details from S1 and the pilot episodes is to try and counter those who believe that S2 and S3 Spock is only one way to portray the character. Of course making a prequel is potentially problematic as it automatically invites criticism, no matter what they come up with.
As you said, it is just a TV show and they can do or change what they want, but I do hope they try to stick with cannon as much as possible. That said, I believe that there is a lot more emotional latitude to the Spock character than what some believe.
No matter what, I can’t wait to see the premiere of SNW!!
Me too. Very excited for the show, especially once I heard Uhura and Chapel are showing up. Not sure how I feel about LA’AAAAAAN but I’m open to anything at this point…until I’m not. ;)
And reality is (and ironically why so many people WANT a Pike show in the first place) is that we know next to nothing about Spock and the others in this period. I’m sure there have been multiple novels or comics about it, but canon wise, like so much of TOS, it’s pretty bare. There is really nothing that conflicts with the fact he could be more emotional outside of what we saw of him in seasons 2 and 3, years before his time with Pike. So yeah. It is what it is. I just hope they do it justice, but with this group…..I do get why others are concerned too. ;)
So we’ll see.
Spock smiling and yelling in multiple scenes in The Cage, smiling and joking about Earth emotions in WNMHGB, smirking in Charlie X, making creepy comments to Yeoman Rand about the Intruder are just a few examples of the emotional Spock we saw in the first half of S1.
Probably the biggest display of emotion from S1 is his willingness to commit mutiny, invite court martial and the death sentence all because of his strong loyalty to, and friendship with his former Captain in The Menagerie. Even as a kid, I wondered why Spock was acting so illogically to help his former Captain instead of being more loyal to Kirk.
I know many fans think of Spock as the stoic character from S2, S3 and the movies but clearly he was not that purely logical character during the first half of S1 of TOS or even early S2 when smiles and yells after learning he didnt kill Kirk afterall in Amok Time.
I am only saying these things to prepare some fans just in case Spock in SNW is much much more like S1 Spock and not like the character from S2 and S3.
A smirk is not a smile. It came across as him catching himself before a full on emotional display. Had he STARTED to smile then catch himself, then it plays. But at the time the scene was shot, none of that was known. It should probably be treated like changing the make up of the Andorrans or Tellerites. Just something that appeared in the old show we are ignoring now.
I will give you the argument that Spock’s loyalty to Pike seemed a bit odd. But Vulcans do have a tendency to justify some pretty illogical things with their own version of logic.
So where is ‘Bones’ Boyce? Or Jose Tyler? I guess they don’t exist in this universe.
I hope this is a slightly different universe than Discovery’s, just as Superman and Lois’ universe is a slightly different universe than Supergirl’s.
(embrace the multiverse)
>;>}
A. This is YEARS after the Cage. Maybe they just transferred, retired or was killed.
B, We can still see them. Just because they didn’t show up in the event doesn’t mean they aren’t there at all, just probably not main characters.
They’re not gone, as long as we remember them.
>;>]
I don’t think it is. I think all those shows are part of the Arrowverse.
one baby then twin 14 year olds. Morgan Edge was not Kryptonian…but maybe I have veered way out of the scope of this site.
Or maybe not.
Post crisis changed that. It was addressed. Morgan Edge was human in the books but in this season they opted to make him Kryptonian. Goes against the books but not the Arrowverse.
Morgan Edge was human in Supergirl (Adrian Pasdar).
I had forgotten he was on Supergirl. I’d have to go back and rewatch to see, but was there anything in Supergirl that disputes Edge not being Terran? He was passing as human in S&L for much of the season. Could it have still been part of the ruse?
Yes but they are post crisis. Hence a slightly difference universe from what came before.
Crisis got rid of the multiverse. They all share the same world now.
The Arrowverse crisis destroyed many universes but not all of them. The Smallville universe still exists, separate from the merged Supergirl/Arrowverse. (At least according to the producers, if I remember correctly, Smallville’s Clark and Lois still get their happily ever after).
If they did say so it’s a bit disappointing because Crisis made it very clear that ALL the multiverse was gone. They would have been poking holes in their own product.
But then The Flash movie will have the multiverse (multiple Batmans (Batmen?)) so there are still multiple universes.
It’s possible Boyce is still the Chief Medical Officer. I don’t think they have said M’Benga is playing that role, right? It wouldn’t make sense for him to be CMO in Pike’s era but not in Kirk’s. I suppose he could have been demoted, but I think he is just a junior medical officer and Boyce may still make an appearance. I liked his relationship with Pike in The Cage and would like to see them further explore that.
I really hope the don’t go for the “middle decks” approach that Discovery has taken. It doesn’t work out well, any more than a WEST WING would have without Pres. Bartlett. (Thankfully, I doubt that’s what SNW will do.)
Is that really a deal breaker for you?
If having a show about Spock’s secret Mary Sue sister was not a deal breaker (well, it kinda of was until I embraced the multi…well, you know) then that is not. I did not expect to see them, but it would be nice to see John Glover as Bones Boyce, even as a guest spot.
People in the military actually do retire or get transferred. Boyce, in particular, was long in the tooth and it’s easy to see that he’s retired by the time of SNW.
To me the smiling Spock feels like a giant tease. In SNW he’s not going to smile in every episode. In fact, I expect the opposite. Because if they are dramatists and not hawking Smiling Spock pins, they’ll be careful. The whole point of Spock is that he was always trying to find a balance.
Think about all the fan fiction (the fan fiction that essentially saved Star Trek). It was always about the growth and balance of Spock.
I once wrote a published fan story about how V’Ger changed Spock and now there is a novel about that. How can these characters be real without changing becuse of their experiences?
Good lord. Who cares what is canon and isn’t ?!!! As long as the show is good.
True. But getting people arguing about canon distracts them from paying attention to things like whether it is good or not.
The only ‘canon’ I’m concerned with, is the one that I choose for my own liking during any franchise re-watch. As far as the TOS show goes, that involves looking on ‘The Cage’ episode and it’s particular ‘Spock’ as being a story set in an ‘alternative universe’ – and I just miss out ‘The Menagerie’ two-parter during TOS.
But no matter how emotional or romantically-involved this particular ‘Spock’ ends up being, I’m really looking forward to watching SNW’s characters and storylines….as another ‘alternate universe’ setting.
And I’m glad to see the return of a ‘view scope’ in this one. :)
I’m just going to ask you, exactly out of the 800 episodes and movies, what is NOT part of your ‘alternative universe’ setting? Is it just the 79 episodes of TOS and some of the movies and everything else just part of a multiverse? Either way, it’s pretty funny because you been saying this for years now and I don’t think anything you ever said makes it in the SAME universe lol.
Seeing as you’ve asked, I’m happy to clarify it more fully for you. Pull up a chair, as this may take a while….
For the sake of smoothing over inconsistencies and improving my own enjoyment of the various ‘spin-offs’ of the original STAR TREK show and it’s characters, I prefer to imagine them as being similar but very ‘alternate versions’ to the original characters and settings portrayed in the TOS tv show and movies – which show a smattering of ‘parallel worlds/alternate universe’ characters and settings different to the ‘TOS universe’ ones – so yes, storylines from an imaginary ‘multi-verse’ of possibilities if you will, where any mentioned ‘stardates’ are meaningless.
Convoluted perhaps, but I find imagining it this way helps to improve the various entries in the ‘franchise’ for myself overall. And ignoring the animated/cartoon shows, here’s how I’d break things down for any future re-watch –
My FIRST imagined ‘universe’ setting – The storyline and characters of ‘The Cage’ pilot episode occurs in this particular ‘universe’
My SECOND imagined ‘universe’ setting (or the ‘Prime universe’ for my purposes) – The storylines and characters of the original TOS show and it’s ‘spin-off’ movies ending with ‘ST:Undiscovered Country’ occur in this particular ‘alternate universe’ – so this features a DIFFERENT ‘Spock’ to the one seen in ‘The Cage’ storyline.
My THIRD imagined ‘universe’ setting – The storylines and characters of the ‘Enterprise’ show….’Next Generation’ show….’Deep Space Nine’ show….’Voyager’ show….as well as the ‘ST:Generations’/’ST:First Contact’/’ST:Insurrection’/’ST:Nemesis’ Next Gen ‘spin-off’ movies and ‘Picard’ show all occur in this particular ‘alternate universe’.
Still with me? Well here’s where things get a little more involved….as this also means that I prefer to look on the ‘Scotty’/’Sarek’/and ‘Spock’ characters that make an appearance in the ‘Next Generation’ show in this THIRD imagined ‘universe’ as NOT being the same ones we see in the ‘Prime’ TOS show’s ‘universe’….and instead look on them as just being similar-looking ‘doppelganger’ characters unique to this particular THIRD ‘alternate universe’, each with a somewhat different backstory to the ‘Prime universe’ versions. And that equally applies to the similar-looking ‘doppelganger Kirk and crew’ that appear at the start of the ‘ST:Generations’ movie too – which means that the ‘Kirk’ character who is sucked into the ‘Nexus’ and eventually died on the ‘wrong bridge’ is NOT the same ‘Kirk’ which we see in my imaginary alternate ‘Prime universe’!
But there’s more….
My FOURTH imagined ‘universe’ setting – The storylines and characters of the ‘Kelvin Timeline’ movie trilogy…..but rather than look on the J.J. Abrams movies as showing a divergence from ANY of the 3 imagined ‘alternate universes’ I described above. I prefer to look on the late great Leonard Nimoy as portraying yet another ‘alternate universe Spock’ to begin with….and by the time he is elderly, he follows the ‘Nero’ from this particular ‘alternate universe’ into new ‘Timeline’ which is split off from it….effectively creating a new setting involving those particular ‘alternative universe’ characters, such as ‘alternate Khan’ if you will.
My FIFTH imagined ‘universe’ setting – The storylines and characters of the ‘Discovery’ show and ‘Strange New Worlds’ show. – for numerous reasons, it’s very easy for me to look on the ‘Discovery’ show as being totally SEPARATE from the original TOS show and ‘The Cage’ storyline. So i will continue to look on the ‘Prime universe’ Spock as only having ‘Sybok’ as his sibling, while this particular ‘alternate uiniverse Spock’ has a sister.
Finally, as far as the way I like to re-watch the original TOS show is concerned, I like to start off with the ‘otherworldly’-ness of ‘The Cage’ (imagining it as a self-contained ‘alternate universe’ story as I mentioned), and then continue with the TOS episodes in ‘production order’ starting off with the ‘Where No Man Has Gone Before’ episode….while missing out ‘The Menagerie’s two-part episode re-use of ‘The Cage’ footage….as well as missing out a couple of other ‘lesser’ episodes along the way….before swapping out the ending of season 3 with ‘The Savage Curtain’ episode instead of ‘Turnabout Intruder’, so that I end the show on a satisfyingly ‘otherworldly’ storyline….and get a decent last look at all the show’s main characters on the bridge as their send off before the TOS movie spin-offs begin!
(and if I’m in the mood for a little more nostalgic ‘Star Trek’ after that, I guess I’d consider the original animated TOS show to be set in yet another ‘alternate universe’ too….)
You’re welcome, lol.
‘Pull up a chair’…I like it.
My divisions are similar but probably more or less divisions between universes depending how I am feeling on any given day. I prefer to try to explain discrepancies creatively which I think I can do fairly well until I hit Voyager (I cannot find any way to logically explain warp 10 salamanders that magically become human again), but then you mentioned Sybok which reminds me that Star Trek 5 is an alternate reality, to me anyway.
Any difference, any change can connote a different universe (Star Trek II and Star Trek 3 are in different universes because Saavik is different).
And Enterprise? I think it a mangled rewrite of history caused by the Borg incursion (or really the Enterpise crew) in First Contact.
And my view of Starfleet DEFINITELY has the Franz Joseph ships in it.
I used to get really (not really) perturbed when people insisted that Discovery was canon (visual reboot). But I know the truth now. There is no canon, but what we make. The Powers That Be, the producers etc, may dictate what is canon and what is not, but it is not up to them. It is up to us.
Embrace the headcanon.
Embrace the multiverse.
@ cd – while I know that many are content to take various prequels, sequels, and other spin-offs at face value without questioning anything, I find myself wanting to ‘streamline’ and ‘re-order’ certain franchises that I’ve invested in passionately into a way I prefer for myself these days.
‘Star Trek’ is not the only franchise I do this with, lol.
This is due to mixture of disappointment and annoyance over certain ‘creative choices’ that have been taken along the way, whether it be poor storylines, poor dialogue, poor character development, or even questionable ‘production design’ decisions – merely from my own point of view, of course. And I just try to smooth things out a bit in a way which will make things more re-watchable for me….even if it means that I have to completely miss out certain instalments to do so, which I’d rather never see again.
And just to add a couple of things which I missed out in my previous post –
While I look on the original TOS show and it’s movies as being a bit of nostalgic ‘retro-futuristic’ fun, I no longer look on it (or any of the ‘Star Trek’ franchise) as showing a potential ‘imaginary future’ which is set in OUR own actual actual universe. I look on ALL of it as showing ‘imaginary’ future Earth’s (and somewhat similar-looking past events and characters to ours at times) which just happen in ‘alternate universes’ to ours. So the ‘Prime universe’ could just as easily apply to the way I’ve described the other ‘alternate universes’, and doesn’t necessarily have to apply to my TOS one.
Also, I’m content to ignore certain discrepancies for myself, such as suddenly bumpy-headed ‘Klingons’ in the first TOS movie, and a different actress suddenly playing ‘Savik’ to keep all the TOS stuff I like in it’s own particular self-contained ‘imaginary universe’. But as you say, everyone else is welcome to come up with whatever their own ‘head canon’ makes them happy,
Lastly, I prefer to watch the original unaltered versions of the TOS show episodes, rather than the unevenly ‘remastered’ versions – especially as a few of my favourite elements and ship compositions were eliminated by the ‘updated’ effects. I’ll stick with the evenly ‘retro’ look of the original episodes and ‘Enterprise’ model(s), any day.
Great and interesting viewpoints regarding the various universes. Yeah, I used to look on TOS as a potential future of our own universe but of course the show’s depiction of an Apollo Saturn V being used to launch an orbital nuclear platform in 1968 or the future launch of the Botany Bay in 1996 more or less ended that fantasy.
I also half agree with you on the CGI remastered TOS episodes. Although some of the new effects are fantastic and admitedly a big improvement over the 1960 visual effects, in many cases, I honestly prefer the analog model-based effects over the digital effects. Of course there are exceptions but I look upon things like the Gorn as quaint. Overall the TOS technical crew did a great job on MOST of the effects.
Of course, the apocalyptic 21st century appears to be right on schedule.
>|>{
Well, I did ask lol.
I appreciate it, thanks.
And I almost forgot….in addition to the way I’ve split the live-action ST shows and movies up into FIVE distinctive ‘alternate universes’ for myself as described above, there’s *also* the alternate ‘MIRROR universe’ of the ‘Terran Empire’ to consider too!
So the way I choose to look on that, is that it is indeed a SIXTH separate ‘alternate universe’ in addition the other five I’ve described….but happens to be the *exact same* ‘mirror universe’ where various characters from my SECOND, THIRD, and FIFTH ‘alternate universes’ end up experiencing for a while.
Hmmm, upon reflection to what I wrote in my previous post about the ‘MIRROR universe….I’ve decided that scenario doesn’t work well enough for me after all for a couple of reasons, so will now look on it this way instead in future –
Rather than looking on it as being one single ‘mirror universe’ that certain characters from my 5 separate ST ‘alternate universes’ end up in….I’m going to look on these characters as experiencing DIFFERENT ‘mirror universes’ which are unique to each of their particular ST ‘alternate universes’ I previously described instead! – in other words, the TOS show’s ‘Terran Empire universe’ is a totally different one to say, the Discovery show’s ‘Terran Empire universe’.
See, it’s not complicated at all. ;)
Of course
As soon as they decided to make Trek sitcoms and kiddie shows, and movies set in an alternate universe, the entire concept of “canon” became much more pick-and-choose than in the TOS and TNG-ENT eras.
Finally Spock got a haircut again instead of that stupid wig like in DSC and the Abrams-movies (even Nimoy wore a wig in ST:11 and ST:12).
Can’t. Wait.
That is all.
I don’t understand what Nurse Chapel and Uhura do ten years before their time. Chapel had to wait until the infamous Star Trek: The Movie to finish her Ph.D. studies? And another romance for Spock? Isn’t Leila Kalomi enough? Do you have to repeat something that belongs to Kirk’s five-year period?