2023 Star Trek Film Moves To December

In a move that isn’t a big surprise, Paramount Pictures has shifted their release calendar around again, which includes moving the date for their planned 2023 Star Trek feature film.

Shakman Trek moves to December 2023

Today Paramount Pictures moved two movies around on their upcoming calendar. Their next big Transformers movie Rise of the Beasts is moving from June 24, 2022, to June 9, 2023. Earlier this year the studio set their next Star Trek feature film for that June date, so the next Trek is now set for December 22, 2023. These changes are not a big surprise, coming after Paramount’s September announcement moving a number of other titles from 2021 into 2022 in hopes to find larger post-pandemic audiences.

According to Deadline, the Star Trek film set for Holiday 2023 is still the project being developed by producer J.J. Abrams, with WandaVision’s Matt Shakman set to direct based on a script co-written by Captain Marvel screenwriter Geneva Robertson-Dworet. There are no confirmed details available on the plot or cast of the film, or even which Star Trek universe it is set in.

December 22nd, 2023 also happens to be the date Disney had set for Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, however, earlier this week The Hollywood Reporter broke the news that the film is being delayed due to director Patty Jenkins’ schedule. Currently, there are no other films set for wide release in December 2023.

While a delay can be disappointing, setting a new date shows continued commitment to the franchise following the recent management shakeup at the studio. In late October, Paramount Pictures’ new chief Brian Robbins said he was “waiting for the development to be delivered” for the next Star Trek live-action movie, adding he “can’t wait to get going.” He also said live-action theatrical films are “crucial to the health of the overall franchise,” and the studio is looking long term to “what do we do next for the franchise that’s going to work for the next five and 10 years, not just one movie at a time.”

Chris Pine as James T. Kirk in Star Trek Beyond

Trek back to the holidays

If Paramount sticks with this new plan, that would have Shakman’s Star Trek movie out seven and a half years after the last film in the franchise: 2016’s Star Trek Beyond. All three films produced by J.J. Abrams were summer releases (the previous two coming out in 2009 and 2013).

Prior to Abrams taking over as producer, most of the Star Trek films were released during the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday season including the first film, Star Trek: The Motion Picture on December 7, 1979, and the final TNG era film: Star Trek Nemesis on December 13, 2002. Star Trek Generations was released on November 18, 1994, and it even included a scene where Jean-Luc Picard fantasized about a family Christmas.

Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek: Generations


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I’m fine with this.

I’d be fine with it if I thought there was any chance this film gets out of development hell.

A December 2023 release date means 14 years will have passed since the first reboot film.

NO!
NO!
Stop it with the math. You’re making me feel old! :-)

A colleague of mine has been hired to work on the film. The movie is not in development Hell. It’s being made.

Egads, that’s longer than the span of all 6 TOS films!

That’s a great point.

As am I.

SEVEN YEARS after “Beyond” … sigh. At least they’re thinking about it.

It’s been a bit. How ya doing? Thinking about it is about all we have to hang our hat on for the next year…

The longest stretch ever between ST movies (previous was Dec 2002 to May 2009, 6 1/2 years)!

Time for a reboot of the reboot

Which is fine with me. The whole “younger crew” thing never really worked for me, and Beyond was only as good as it was because they had matured into the roles.

At this point, Pine is now 41, and much more capable of playing the kind of strong starfleet captain I want to see.

Of course, this all assumes it’s even the same cast and characters…

I would be really surprised the new movie will have anything to do with the Kelvin actors. I said in the past including recently I wouldn’t mind another one. But after 7 years they are probably just thinking of starting fresh with a new generation of characters to go forward. Once the five year anniversary hit for Beyond (which was this year) it just starting to feel a little too late at this point.

Prepared to be proven wrong, but the reality is if they are using the Kelvin actors, why not just say that? You announced the director, writer and even Abrams back as producer, but not the actors whose been these characters for a decade now? That’s the biggest giveaway to me.

I think it is the actors from the Kelvin universe. I bet they are preparing a TMP era second Trilogy. But what is taking more time is not just the studio but that the actors themselves and their agents have to work through preparing not only the audience for this Trek film – but ALL the films and franchises they are associated with that will now see them all as older. Age changes the equation.

Again, then why not just say that? I don’t understand why are you being so secretive about a cast that has already been in the last three movies for the last 12 years? When STID and Beyond (or Orci’s film) was beginning production, they made it pretty clear the cast was coming back like every cast in prior sequels.

But yes you could be right, maybe they are just working out the deals with them, but once again, did they n-o-t learn their lesson with the Hemsworth movie? I said this back in April when this movie was first announced, why not just wait until everyone is onboard and just announce something then? What if they have literally the same problem they did 3 years ago and a few just can’t be swayed? Why keep putting yourself through this after the debacle the last time? You announce a date before you have the returning actors?

And you are STILL negotiating with people when your movie was suppose to debut a year and a half from now? They announced this movie 7 month ago already! That’s why I’m just very dubious it’s the original cast. And if they are still trying to get people onboard this late in the game, that’s not exactly a great sign its working out.

But hey, I been wrong many times lol. Including when I was convinced a movie WAS happening with the original cast. Now maybe it will go the other way. So, we’ll see…hopefully soon. ;)

If Pine was a holdout over salary last time, then it makes sense to me they’d be playing their cards closer to their chests, especially if the script is still being reworked. No need to give the actors’ agents leverage if it’s still being scripted and budgeted.

No what I’m saying is simply wait to get Pine and all the rest and then announce the movie. To me, this is actually the OPPOSITE of a good negotiation because you basically given Pine more leverage by announcing the movie, an opening date and putting him in a script he hasn’t agreed to even star in yet.

For the record, I have no idea how stuff like this works, I’m only speaking from a purely common sense angle. But we know Hollywood doesn’t always work on common sense lol. It just seems to me you make the deals first before you make big splashy announcements about it or have the kind of money where it’s not going to be an issue to get them all back like Marvel movies. Those guys can pretty much do what they want because they have both the money and loyalty of its actors because it makes everyone so much money and most sign up beyond just a few films. Even after their contract runs out, they don’t have a problem getting most of them back. That’s a franchise that just prints money at this point lol.

It’s not even close to the same situation with Star Trek when they didn’t even want to pay Pine the money they promised him already and it was still on the lower end in terms of big pay outs. So I’m still very questionable this has anything to do with the previous cast. I have a feeling whatever the next movie is, it’s going to be MUCH lower compared to the other films and bringing in a newer cast unless they found a way to shave off tens of millions they are paying the older actors.

It would be fantastic for the Kelvin cast to return.

I would be fine with it, but I really feel they have moved on. But yes, if they actually can get them all back, it would be great…for some of us lol.

I think what I was trying to say is that if “age” is the subtext of another round of Kelvin films – then these actors have their careers as part of other franchises to consider. Not that an actor can “turn back time”— but that let’s say Saldana or Pine might be “a certain age” in an Avatar film or a Wonder Woman film, and that might be a consideration as to how they reveal a TMP era trilogy. Just a thought!

OK I understand what you mean. I just don’t think Paramount is thinking on that level though. I think its the opposite in fact and they want even younger actors to appeal to a younger audience. I could be completely wrong but this is not the same Paramount of old. If we were talking about a TV show, I can completely see that since clearly having all the older legacy actors popping up on the new shows isn’t an issue.

But in terms of the movies, I don’t think its the same thing. TOS did it because it was TOS, those guys WERE Star Trek at the time. Fans wanted to keep seeing them at any age. The Kelvin actors don’t have nearly the same appeal. They were in three movies and the last one flopped. I just have a hard time believing they are thinking of a new trilogy with them. I think Paramount wants a new younger cast because someone pointed out the Kelvin films are already at the same age as the TOS films when they wrapped and they already made 6 movies in the same amount of time. And we’re still two full years away from the next one.

But maybe you are right. I just feel that Paramount knows they sort of squandered these films. They all cost WAY too much for what they brought in and the excitement over them has long pass with both older and new fans. If the older movies actually MADE a lot of money, then sure I can see trying another trilogy like they are doing with Transformers now. But none of them ever did.

Bumblebee was the lowest grossing Transformer movie and it still made more than all the Kelvin movies (but only a few million more than STID). But it also cost less than all the Kelvin movies did as well. $50 million less than what Into Darkness and Beyond did. But it could only cost that low by having an entire new and cheaper cast as well. That’s the problem. I see the next set of Trek films going the same way because it’s hard to make those films cheaper with a big ensemble cast and yet not even guaranteed to pull in $400 million. That’s chump change today.

The next movie could be with the Kelvin cast, but I have a feeling it would be sort of like TUC and Nemesis and to kind of give these movies closure UNLESS it performs over $400 million which is sadly a big if IMO. I’m sorry I sound so cynical but I have a feeling Paramount wants movies for under $130 million and probably with new fresh faces since the Kelvin movies were never huge hits and I think they given up on that idea.

I like the entire cast. Each and every member of the cast has done great work in other films. They could easily make a stand alone or even a series of great Trek movies. So I am hoping that’s what someone else sees, and sees that it could be worth money. They honestly just need a real science fiction screenwriter, someone who understands Star Trek and what it can be. I am sure you feel exactly that way too.

I certainly like them too. I been saying I want to see them in at least one more film and yes this could be it.

I’m only basing my theory on what Paramount has been doing themselves, that’s all. Remember they hired Noah Hawley before these new people to make a film. And I suspect they originally got him because he comes from TV and probably was making a much cheaper film than the Kelvin movies. On top of that, he made it clear it was going to be a new cast of characters. That’s why I’m doubtful since they were already willing to make a movie without the original cast.

But same time his movie didn’t happen. And maybe because they decided to give the Kelvin crew another go around after all. It would just be nice if we got something beyond ‘we’re working on it’ for the last five years lol.

I agree with you tiger. I would love to see an entirely new ship and an entirely new crew. I would like to see some thing in a different time. Then what we are currently seeing on any other show. Perhaps some thing in between the original series movies and the next generation. Whatever it is, I want something new and different ideally. That said, with everything under one roof now, I would not be opposed to some kind of crossover film.

The idea of seeing Chris pine and his enterprise teaming up with Anson mound and his enterprise has some appeal. Frankly, crossovers are a natural fit for the Star Trek franchise and it’s something they have neglected for far too long.

The fact that we only ever really got one crossover between next generation and deep space nine was a crime, and we never even saw the two crews together.

Sorry, Generations was a cross over movie, and it’s easily the worst of the bunch. Quite cringeworthy…..

I liked the scenes on the Enterprise B and they wisely cut the awful sky diving scene. But i’ve seen both versions of Kirk’s death and neither are suitable.

I quite liked the character of Demora Sulu. I thought Shatner and Stewart had good chemistry, but so much of the movie is a miss. I mean Malcolm McDowell is great. The film should work and it doesn’t.

No way. Gen is decent. Into darkness is the travesty of the franchise.

Phil, ONE bad crossover movie from 27 years ago (wow) shouldn’t negate ALL crossover movies lol. I’m sure when Kevin Feige told Disney about the idea of crossing over all the heroes for Avengers, I’m sure Disney said, “Well, it sounds OK, but it didn’t work out as well for Star Trek though…”

C’mon!

And the other problem was simply Paramount didn’t really like the crossover idea and forced the writers to limit all the TOS characters minus Kirk. They couldn’t make it a true crossover movie because Paramount probably just didn’t want to pay all the TOS characters for being in the movie.

Today we live in a VERY different world. It’s only a matter of when and not if when a big crossover happens, either on TV or a movie.

And I still like Generations even with its faults! :)

For you, perhaps (and FWIW I do recognize you’re not alone in your assessment, even if I personally don’t share it). For me, Star Trek: Generations isn’t even in my bottom five out of the thirteen (heck, it’s not even at the bottom out of just the four movies with the TNG crew.

If the next movie doesn’t involve the Kelvin cast then yes, I HOPE they really do something different and unique. Go in a different time period with brand new characters. Shake up the formula at least a little. It’s amazing how the shows at least try different things every once in awhile, but the movies still stay very stagnant. I get why for TOS and TNG, those were following familiar characters and settings obviously. With the Kelvin movies, also understandable at the time and it was fun to see a reinvention of TOS.

And I stated I always liked the Kelvin universe. Unfortunately they never made it distinct enough outside of blowing up Vulcan and making everything feel more advanced than the TNG era. But story wise, it was the same stuff we got over and over again. They did nothing interesting with it at all and people got bored with it very fast.

But I would still like to see more stories in the Kelvin universe, just with NEW characters too. They can still make it more interesting. But I also feel if they are not using the Kelvin actors for the next movie then more than likely they will just return to the Prime universe because as you said now they have all these old and new characters on Paramount+ they can tap into and even do a crossover with. I don’t think the next film will do that but it wouldn’t stop them either. And now that Viacom is one big happy corporation again the movies and shows can now exist together like the days of the TOS and TNG films.

And its another reason why I feel they may be moving on from the Kelvin cast because beside the large amount of time since Beyond, now they are in a very different environment when those films started. They can now utilize a larger library of characters and settings. They can now bring in legacy characters from any of the shows. And for a company that is putting all their stock in their shiny new streaming service and trying to get as many eyeballs on that as possible, now they have the chance to cross promote both the shows and films together in a way no other previous films have done. End of the day every product is going to be made to sit on Paramount+ for the next 50 years, so I see a lot of the content basically being made for that service in the same aggressive way Disney and Warner Bros are now doing for theirs.

It may not happen with the next movie…but it will most likely happen as both Star Trek and Paramount+ become a bigger priority in the next decade.

I really like Chris Pine as an actor, it isn’t his fault they’ve given him bad scripts.

Yeah I do too. Unfortunately we’re not the ones who held his salary hostage for the next film. I imagine if things worked out in 2018 we would’ve had them in a new movie this year for the 55th anniversary.

But I won’t lie, I wasn’t looking forward to either the Hemsworth or Tarantino movie ideas and not that bothered they didn’t work out. If they are in the next film, I’m hoping for a more original story.

strong?
that kirk lost the enterprise due to his stupidity.

Yes, strong, thank you and have a nice day.

I have a lot of doubt over a 4th Kelvin Timeline movie getting made, in fact there is at least a 75% chance the KT will always only be a trilogy. What do they expect we wait til 2030 continuing to promise its coming. I hope i’m wrong. But Paramount hasn’t had this many false starts since the Motion Picture.

The last time it took this long for another movie to get off the ground was between Nemesis in 2002 and ST09 in 2009. And in fact it was only that long because Paramount decided to push the 09 movie out of its December 2008 slot because it thought it could make more money in the summer.

But it took years after Nemesis flopped before they finally got another movie off the ground with a new direction completely. I have a feeling history is repeating itself.

That and the fact everyone is dead quiet about the Kelvin actors coming back. Why announce the director and writer but not the cast they already made 3 films with? And when the Hemsworth and Tarantino movies were at least a possibility you couldn’t get people like Quinto and Pegg to stop talking about being part of those. Even Tarantino confirmed he planned to use the Kelvin actors in his movie. Now, utter silence from all sides.

For me personally, up until 2018, it was just a given they would come back for the next one. But since Pine walked away and the years have been ticking by since, it just seems less likely at this point. I could be completely wrong, but no one seems to be begging for another one…including Paramount. And the hardcore fans enthusiasm for them seem to have died after STID. The once new fans for these films have mostly moved on by then too; hence Beyond’s low reception.

Assuming the 12/23 date holds that’s a bit over seven and a half years between projects. Call it a reboot or whatever, it virtually guarantees this will be a stand alone project, regardless of how it’s cast. That’s fine, as long as it doesn’t turn into a twisted attempt to ‘explain’ anything. A tremendous amount of effort on screen and off screen went into trying to ‘explain’ new look Trek 09, which was a pointless endeavor. The closest analogy I can draw would have been if TMP spent a lot of time explaining where the bumpy headed Klingons had been hiding all these years….when few cared.

Paramount, at this point, you have one job. Make a decent movie. That’s all anyone can ask.

Since JJ no longer needs to use Trek as his as his Star Wars audition tape it would be great if we could have a slower, more thoughtful movie that isn’t a revenge story or rehashed plot. Fans just want a script that makes sense (no magic, human-tribble compatible, cures death blood). Hopefully we also have the more mature and toned down Kirk we saw at the start of Beyond and no music from The Beastie Boys.

Denis Villenueve’s Star Trek? Well, there’s slow and thoughtful and then there’s watching paint dry…

I think Abrams has shown that he is incapable of making slower, more thoughtful movies that don’t rehash existing plots. His career, including his two Star Wars directorial efforts are little more than derivative riffs on other, better movies. Force Awakens was at times a scene for scene remake of A New Hope and Rise of Skywalker followed many of the major beats of Return of the Jedi. He does have a talent for assembling good casts and his movies all look slick but when it comes to actual plot and storytelling he doesn’t seem to consider those priorities. Besides, I thought he was busy ruining Superman over at WB.

He is no different than Michael Bay, and people keep giving Bay flack while JJ Abrams was always the “wunderkind”. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

He is no different than Michael Bay,

In fairness to Bay, he was also the executive producer of the superb “Black Sails”, which was very much a slower, more thoughtful product and in all aspects the exact opposite of Bay’s other “pirates” franchise (not to mention most of Bay’s other movies). It’s as though Bay decided to prove that he really could create an unusually intelligent, serious and grown-up story if he actually wanted to. JJ Abrams, so far, has yet to prove that he could pull off something similar, but given Bay’s precedent, I guess hypothetically he could surprise us at some point too.

Yeah, Forgot all about Bay’s involvement with Black Sails, which was an excellent show. Still I highly doubt he was a “hands on” producer on that.

JJ is incapable of making something that isn’t a “mystery box” plot that never adds up which means he has to distract you with actions and flashy effects.

And he abandons every project he starts. I’m surprised that he’s still involved with Star Trek at all, especially since he clearly never understood it and wasn’t part of Beyond.

That was a frequent criticism of Spielberg for years, until The Color Purple and Schindler’s List came along. Abrams is still relatively new, but even if his career is the theatrical version of pulp fiction, it makes money. This notion that Trek is somehow deep and thoughtful is a conceit. Trek strives to produce good continuity, but it’s still science fiction, emphasis on fiction.

I’m going to be retired by the time this movie comes out!

Sometime in the next six months, it’ll move to TBA. Guaranteed.

Not guaranteed at all. In fact, definitely not the case. The film is moving forward. A friend of mine has been hired to work on the movie, and I may soon be joining him. What you have to remember about this industry is that a lack of news rarely means a lack of progress.

We have been on this merry-go-round for over 5 years now lol.

In fact, I remember a poster telling me the same thing last year that they are putting their ducks together, Paramount has a plan and the movies will be moving forward sooner than people think with the then new CEO now running things and will make Star Trek a priority. This was during the time the Hawley movie was shut down and she was proposing that the Hemsworth movie was something they were still looking at which was ridiculous since Hemsworth himself said he had moved on. And that clearly turned out to be much ado about nothing.

And she barely lasted a year before her and the last guy whose been running it left. All they did was get yet ANOTHER writer and director to come up with a movie but never got beyond pre-production, like the last three films. Now we have a new guy running things with the same talk and the first big action he’s done is postpone a movie that they announced 7 months ago. Can you really blame people for feeling skeptical at this point?

For most fans, no one cares about announcing the opening date because that’s very arbitrary (clearly). It’s the filming date that will tell fans they are serious. Until then, people will continue to be skeptical and for very good reason.

And people have been telling this stuff to Phil for literally years now…and he’s the one that continues to be right year after year after year. I’m sure he would love for his streak to be broken though. ;)

I work in this business, too and lack of news can go in either direction (ask anyone working on the long delayed BSG reboot). What encourages me about this new date for Star Trek is that Paramount jumped on it as soon as Disney moved Rogue Squadron.

Good to hear but there have been other projects close to start of production that have been shut down.

No news or less news until production design is a actually turning into sets, props and costumes might build more confidence.

Even Hawley’s movie was moving into production and people hired to build sets before they pulled it. So it really means nothing until they announce a cast, budget and filming date. That’s it. It’s all noise until then.

The only other franchise that is having just as hard of a time lately is Star Wars out of all things. How many films have they announced, many with dates and directors attached that went nowhere!? The latest being Rogue Squadron.

Sorry, but just because there are a few fresh horses in the arena doesn’t mean this isn’t the same old rodeo. People come and go on various development projects all the time, it means nothing. Have also seen people on the ‘inside’ (including Mr. Orci himself), who didn’t know what they thought they knew. Since Beyond, I’ve taken plenty of s**t when I’ve pointed out new production news doesn’t pass the sniff test. That this date moved, something I called quite a while back, is no surprise. If JJ needs 24 months, that clock starts ticking on Xmas. This date will move again.

You said you were a voice artist right?

Phil if you believe that, that means it will definitely happen lol. And I pretty much agree. I remember telling you in the last article waaaaaay back from 10 days ago I saw them moving off the June date because it was very very clear they were nowhere close to production. I’m surprised they didn’t just push it back another year but it will probably end up being the case.

I’d be happy to be wrong. I’ve mentioned before that Abrams did one of his Cloverfield sequels way off the Hollywood grid – it just showed up on a streaming service one day. There is a (un)likely possibility maybe he did that with a super secret Trek production, as well. It wouldn’t be the first time BR delayed a release date because a project was in post production longer then expected.

Not remotely surprised. I said a few times now in the last few weeks it sounded like this movie was way behind and predicted they were going to move it. It didn’t remotely sound like a film that was going into production anytime soon, especially with only a year and a half to go. They haven’t announced a single thing beyond announcing a writer and director…which they have announced in the other previous announcements (do I sound a bit redundant, just getting a point across ;)).

I’m surprised they didn’t just push it back to 2024, but give it more time.

All I will say is no matter how you feel about them it’s thankful we have new shows now and honestly what I really care about anyway. I like the movies but they always just been more of a fun distraction for me; especially the Kelvin movies. They have never been at the level of the TV shows for many reasons and sadly most of the fans has never really grown attached to the Kelvin universe like the Prime universe (but that’s also the movies fault IMO). And the movie side has been in shambles since 2016 (to be honest, before that once they let Orci go) and I’m still not convinced that will change anytime soon.

7 years is enough of a gap for there to be a tonal reboot of the movies, either with the Kelvin cast (Chris Pine in particular can now project much more gravitas, as we recently discussed) or a completely new cast and fresh setting. Enough time will have passed for the gap to potentially be a positive thing and for this kind of change in “vibe” to be much more credible and palatable for the audience. Especially if the films have a much more serious and highbrow Christopher Nolan/Denis Villeneuve-style atmosphere. This has obviously been said before, but TWOK’s well-deserved iconic success has been too much of an influence on the rest of the Trek movies — albeit to different degrees — when the most scope from a sci-fi viewpoint actually lies in TMP-style stories (the TV shows are a different matter).
 
Perhaps the ideal choice is a more “hard sci-fi” storyline that combines the positive stuff from TMP with the camaraderie from the final parts of TMP and the whole of TWOK. Alternatively, STID’s original Bourne-style conspiracy theme would have worked pretty well if the film had been left in Bob Orci’s hands, instead of what ended up happening due to “too many cooks” etc; so I think a Paul Greengrass type political thriller is an interesting option too, but *only* if it’s in the right hands and managed very carefully (the same point I’ve made about the Section 31 show). However, all things considered, a Nolan/Villeneuve-style epic has the most potential and in my opinion would be the best fit for a new Star Trek movie.
 
But I agree that attention has now shifted to the multiple TV shows, so it’s debatable whether a big screen movie is really necessary at this point. Theoretically it should be about something linked to the TV shows (one way or another) and only if the story and depiction would be much better for a theatrical release rather than TV.
 

Off-topic sidebar 1: Christopher Nolan’s “Interstellar” was basically a Star Trek movie ;) It even had stuff clearly inspired by deleted scenes from TMP (Interstellar’s “tesseract” climax), and the mysterious wormholes/the “aliens”-are-humans-from-the-far-future is obviously from DS9 (Bajor’s wormhole, the actual identity of the Prophets etc). So Nolan is a secret Trekkie. I knew it!
 
Off-topic sidebar 2: Assuming you’ve been following this stuff, Lue Elizondo and the people closest to him have been suggesting some interesting theories about the real-life UFOs/UAPs that the US military have been reporting, especially the incidents near nuclear vessels and nuclear missile sites. According to Elizondo — there’s a long interview in GQ Magazine — either they’re aliens, or interdimensional, or despite how it seems, *humans aren’t actually the dominant alpha predators on Earth’s intellectual food chain and the species behind the UFOs is an Earth-origin pre-human civilisation that has been here a very long time* (VOY’s “dinosaur aliens”?). Elizondo has repeatedly made the last point elsewhere too; he’s refused to go into further details, but emphasised that most people would find the full truth “sobering”.

Reputable authors close to Elizondo (very far from the “Ancient Aliens” types) have also published books setting out the evidence for the reported humanoid “aliens” actually being humans from the distant future, using time-travel to either change their past/our present (coincidentally the plot to Nolan’s Tenet) or to safeguard their present/our future (yep, the plot to Nolan’s Interstellar).

Whatever the truth, it’s a thought-provoking subject. You can see how this sort of thing might work as inspiration for a Star Trek movie too.
 
Off-topic sidebar 3: I belatedly realised that VOY must have based the multispecies Xindi on the alleged accounts of real-life humanoid/reptilian/insectoid aliens that have been reported as working together during UFO abductions.

“Off-topic sidebar 2: Assuming you’ve been following this stuff, Lue Elizondo and the people closest to him have been suggesting some interesting theories about the real-life UFOs/UAPs that the US military have been reporting, especially the incidents near nuclear vessels and nuclear missile sites. According to Elizondo — there’s a long interview in GQ Magazine — either they’re aliens, or interdimensional, or despite how it seems, *humans aren’t actually the dominant alpha predators on Earth’s intellectual food chain and the species behind the UFOs is an Earth-origin pre-human civilisation that has been here a very long time* (VOY’s “dinosaur aliens”?). Elizondo has repeatedly made the last point elsewhere too; he’s refused to go into further details, but emphasised that most people would find the full truth “sobering”.”

OK, this post just got weird lol. Yes I know who he is. I remember seeing him in a few interviews on the news back when the New York Times reported the Pentagon program about UFOs. And just by a strange coincidence a week ago I watched the Showtime documentary, UFO, that was aired this year, produced by JJ Abrams no less lol. And he was discussed a lot in that documentary too. If you haven’t watched it, I would definitely recommend it! It’s good and give more insight to Elizondo and that program specifically. Although in the third episode, it kind of turns into a conspiracy questioning Elizondo and that the U.S. was using that program for an even BIGGER cover up lol. Yeah, it gets very X-filesy, I’ll put it that way.

As for your thoughts, I was a BIG UFO believer when I was younger. I read Chariots of the Gods and all of that growing up. I don’t know how much I believe today but yes I do think there is a lot more going on than they are letting on. If they are future humans and all of that, man, I have no idea. But nothing should just be dismissed either. Especially if you are a Star Trek fan. ;) Sure I would love to see Star Trek do stories like this. We had many time travel stories but not any that connected them to UFOs in the present day.

And I think you mean Enterprise and the Xindi right?

(Apologies for the delay in replying — I was offline for a few days).
 
I’ve seen JJ’s UFO documentary. You’re right, it starts well but later turns into a debunking exercise. Elizondo’s own documentary “Unidentified” is much better; it’s pretty serious stuff and has had a couple of seasons so far. Elizondo and former senior Pentagon official Christopher Mellon are central figures; their effort is the main reason the US Government, the Pentagon and very senior Intelligence officials are now taking the UFO issue so seriously. The documentary also includes some fighter pilots who witnessed UFOs; their identities were disguised in the first season, but they’ve subsequently gone public.
 
The declassified video footage is the tip of the iceberg. There was a closed-doors briefing for relevant people in Congress a few months ago that apparently included 23 minutes of video that was far more detailed; a fighter pilot also filmed (or photographed, I can’t remember which) a UFO from just 50 feet away. Biggest twist is that in some of this material, *apparently you can actually see the occupants of the UFOs*. So I guess it’s understandable why there would be a “handle with caution” attitude to releasing this to the public; it’s loaded, world-changing stuff. However, Elizondo says the public reaction to the full information would be (a) “sober”, (b) it would not trigger riots or celebrations, and (c) it would put some people off religion while pushing others towards it. Again, he’s being cagey about the reasons, apart from stressing that the most troubling thing for people to psychologically deal with will be the fact that humans are apparently not the dominant species on Earth.
 
“Unidentified” is a really good show. Definitely worth checking out if you can find it on TV or online somewhere. You can also google Elizondo’s recent interview with British GQ; he goes into a surprising amount of detail there.
 
Worth keeping an eye on these Twitter accounts too:
 
@LueElizondo
@ChrisKMellon . He was actually the Deputy Assistance Secretary of Defense for Intelligence. Heavy hitter. His articles also seem to be influencing the rapidly-expanding military and intelligence strategy for investigating UFOs — stuff that’s being incorporated into defense bills etc.
@rosscoulthart . Elizondo has been promoting him on twitter. Coulthart is a journalist whose book included evidence for a time-travel angle to some UFOs (future humans, basically).
@uncertainvector . Ryan Graves was one of the fighter pilots who witnessed UFOs and has now gone public. Seems to know a lot about ongoing behind-the-scenes developments, although like Elizondo he chooses his words carefully. Curiously, Graves has recently begun posting very highbrow scientific threads discussing the potential military applications of future time-travel technology, including the huge implications this could have (or is *already having*) on our timeline. So there may be some overlap with Coulthart’s research too.
@DietrichVFA41 . Alex Anne Dietriech was another fighter pilot who witnessed UFOs, participated in “Unidentified”, and has now gone public. She was very detailed and serious in the documentary, although her twitter account is a little more light-hearted (not in any “debunking” sense — far from it — but she just tries to keep things good-humoured). There was a startling twist a few months ago when facts in some twitter exchanges indicated that the occupants of the UFOs may have been monitoring Dietrich’s family for generations, so Dietriech recently encountering UFOs may not necessarily have been a coincidence. Of course, if there’s actually a time-travel angle, the UFOs may have known exactly where and when to run into Dietrich because in the future, the historical records already had the details!

It wouldn’t be surprising if the truth behind UFOs is actually a mixture of reasons. I think John Podesta was asked about aliens a few years back and his reply was basically “It’s complicated”. So this would confirm the various explanations Elizondo has been cryptically suggesting too.
 
As for Star Trek — it would be a no-brainer for them to use Elizondo’s AATIP program and its proposed successors to explain the historical origins of Section 31. S31 could have been a combination of the “black budget” stuff in AATIP and its international counterparts, with the most covert parts of these organisations unifying after First Contact with the Vulcans (since Earth is extremely vulnerable after WW3), the mission later expanding to defend the entire Federation instead of just Earth and humans, and the whole thing having a “deep state” angle throughout. Makes sense, no?
 
And yes, I mean ENT not VOY regarding the Xindi — I got sidetracked with those dinosaur aliens ;)
 

Hey there,

Sorry I’m just now getting to this. I saw you post to me about this on another thread. Honestly after I made my last post I never looked here again. Things move SO fast on TM lol. And it’s hard to keep up when and where you posted someone to. Sometimes I click on the notification button but a lot of times I don’t even think to do it. And even then, a lot of those ‘replies’ end up going to my spam folder for some reason and I rarely look there. I wish this site had a more updated posting format, but I digress. Ok, now with ALL of that out the way lol!

First off, I never heard of this documentary before but I just went and see if I could find it somewhere and it’s on the History Channel here in America, which I have. And it’s both seasons. I’ll be honest, when I saw ‘History channel’ I sort of rolled my eyes because I used to watch their other alien show ‘Ancient Aliens’ here and there. And that just got to the realm of pure parody. I stopped watching that show when they got to the infamous Bigfoot episode suggesting aliens had something to do with his existence or that he was experimented on by them. I just couldn’t anymore after that lol. In they have SO MANY documentaries there about UFOs but it’s just either the stuff people have heard before over and over again (Roswell, the Arizona incident, Area 51, etc) or just a lot of sensational junk.

But yeah I will definitely give Unidentified doc a chance now! I am very intrigue. And with this line you said:

*apparently you can actually see the occupants of the UFOs*

Dude, that footage is IN the UFO Showtime documentary as well! It’s literally in the last minute or two of episode four right before the credits start showing a montage of video and photos. Than that image comes up, they zoom in on the video and you CAN see an alien pretty clearly. It’s only one though. It’s small, but it’s there. I was SO blown away by it, I went to Youtube (where else lol) thinking there would be people who saw it and would dissect the image more but nothing anywhere. Again it could just be a hoax but that was one single thing that intrigued me beyond anything in that documentary and it’s not even discussed in the doc itself. So odd!

But I will try to watch a few of the doc episodes this weekend and let you know my thoughts when I do. And I have heard of one of those people you wrote, Ryan Graves. I saw him on a 60 Minutes interview this year. I can’t remember exactly when but it wasn’t that long ago. Yeah he came off VERY credible! I’ll Google some of the other names too. But you should track that 60 Minutes interview with him although nothing he says is probably new for you.

And definitely look at the UFO documentary again, the last few minutes of the final episode and you’ll see the alien image there. Again, just very eerie in so many ways! Fun to geek about UFOs on this board lol.

Hi Jai,

Yes I agree! I think no matter WHO is in the film, since it will be over 7 years (and it could be longer ;)), then it will probably be a reboot of some kind. If they stick with the Kelvin cast, then they will probably kick off the story in a new way or have the characters come together again much like TMP did. I mean, even by Beyond, they were supposedly halfway into their 5 year mission. With so much time passed they could do what Trek in a Cafe suggested and acknowledge a lot of time has passed and put them in a new era where everyone is older and wiser.

As far as it being hard sci fi, I wish I could agree with you on that too, but I just don’t see that happening. The writer of the next movie made Tomb Raider and Captain Marvel. Never seen Tomb Raider but I thought Captain Marvel was OK, some good sci fi ideas, but it wasn’t anything more than a fun and pulpy comic book movie. Now I’m NOT putting down the writer, those movies are great for what they are. And its not to say she can’t write a hard sci fi story, she graduated from Harvard in screenwriting, she can probably do a wide range of stories. But based on the movies she has written so far, my guess is she was hired for this movie to do what she did with those and come up with a fun adventure story. Same reason why they hired Justin Lin to direct Beyond. He was the guy known for the fast adrenaline car movies so they wanted some of that translated onto Star Trek.

But if we are just getting a light adventure story, I’ll happily take it! Just as long as it’s good (and Khan is not involved ;)).

And don’t get me wrong. I do want another movie of course, but as said it’s clear the TV side is where the focus is now. I think the Kelvin movies were great to have when CBS didn’t want to make anymore shows for awhile and it was nice to try something a little different and have a big budget film series. We never had that before. But sadly they only seem to have divided the fanbase more. And after Beyond failed, it told me that the movies will never be as successful as they are on TV because you can have a smaller audience and still be successful. That’s why there are five shows in production now while still waiting on the next film five years later. And for some reason you can have a lot more variety on TV; which is what most of us are looking for.

But I do think IF the next movie will be with a new cast completely then we will see stronger tie ins to the TV shows because they want that synergy with Paramount+. Disney is doing it with both their Marvel and Star Wars shows and films on Disney+ that will tie into future films. Warner Bros is now making DC shows and movies for HBO Max that will also tie into the DCEU. I can’t see Paramount not thinking the same direction with Star Trek. This is where the IPs are headed now, a larger integration between streaming and big screen content because it’s now all being driven by one megacorporation. Streaming has changed the game on a level I don’t think anyone was thinking about even just five years ago.

With Star Trek, maybe the integration won’t be as strong as those, but a connection of some kind. And yes maybe actual crossovers. That’s why I’m convinced it’s a new cast because they can go so much bigger in terms of broadening the prime universe with a mixture of new and old characters they are trying to get a wide range of demographics to cater to across all platforms. It’s why they are already throwing out a Prodigy movie idea.

With the Kelvin movies, it kind of limits them in that regard.

[Deleted. Comment re-attached beneath my reply below]

Kicking the can down the road again. Something tells me these guys are serious, though. So we’ll wait for the final product. “You only get one…”

In theory a Christmas-week release date is a tremendous vote of confidence. I’ll believe it when it actually comes out, though.

There is no commitment from Paramount at all. It is nothing.

I’m so glad it’s back to December. That’s how it should be – it’s traditional man!

Just TMP, INS and NEM, right? The others were Summer or November.

Right. I meant the Nov/Dec release window.

Probably all just some investor humbug. Shakman will have better options for a film project than musty old Star Trek. But I do like the holiday idea, perhaps a Paramount+ Holiday Special– maybe 2 hours of Karl Urban and the drunk woman from Picard stuck in the Christmas Nexus plus Tim Russ and Spiner musical sequences.

I’m down for another Kelvin film. The actors have aged well, and a new film could be set during the TOS movie era. But it should be a lower budget affair and more character driven. I always see the Kelvin films as fast food which is tasty but easily forgotten, and not gourmet like some of the TOS films.
Kelvin can be gourmet, let’s give it a shot and see what happens.

How about a movie set at the end of the Five Year Mission, with the Enterprise on its way home to a triumphant hero’s welcome before being sent back out on an emergency mission which is the plot of the movie?

What I do not understand is why everyone can only associate this cast with the Kelvin timeline. Kirk, Spock and Mccoy are the same people no matter which timeline or alternate reality are involved. What Paramount also needs to understand is the possibility of losing fans AND potential movie patrons with all of the continuous false starts, cancellations and moves. I know that I am not as excited about a new movie as I once was because it always seems like “Here we go again”.

Because to casual moviegoers it would be incredibly confusing.

How do you think audiences would react if Marvel decided to just ignore the events of Endgame and make a new Avengers film based in a different timeline but still starring Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark?

It was already a big lift (which not all viewers “got,” sadly) to explain that the Kelvin Timeline is an alternate universe in the first movie. Now, those who semi-paid attention understand that the KT and the TOS / TNG-onwards timelines are separate. You do a new movie set in the TOS timeline with the KT actors, you’re asking for confusion. (Not to mention we have a new, separate TV Spock set in the TOS timeline!)

For instance, canonically all the Batman movies are on different Earths. (To the point where they’re bringing back Michael Keaton to play his ’89 Batman for the upcoming Flash movie with Ezra Miller.) They don’t pretend there’s any continuity between them, with the exception of Chris O’Donnell being Robin between the Kilmer and Clooney versions. The only continuity to date has been in the Nolanverse trilogy but even then you don’t really need to have seen a previous film to enjoy them.

At this point I would say, leverage whatever brand recognition there is for the KT as “movie Star Trek” and yeah, do a post-five-year-mission movie where they have to get the band back together.

I mean, unless the timeline has radically changed, V’Ger is still on course for Earth around the year 2271. Given that Beyond takes place in 2263, and we’ve had a real-life gap of about that many years, it opens a lot of possibilities.

For instance, it could explain what happened to Chekov (maybe he was stationed where Ilia was in the prime universe, got turned into a Chekov-probe and then merged with someone to help V’Ger ascend to a different plane of consciousness), so we could see a post-V’ger crew who were still somewhat broken by the loss of their friend. That would maybe position Jaylah to take over as she would be three years out of the Academy and maybe a Lt. JG.

I mean I’m sure they have a good script, I’m just saying there’s lots of possibilities with the KT crew that could ‘bounce’ off of post-TOS canon without slavishly replicating it or doing fanservice necessarily.

The harder lift might be to establish a completely new crew (in that case, you’re really leaning hard on the story / VFX or celebrity casting). That’s something more easily done on TV, unless you do it as “a Star Trek Story” – and it remains to be seen if there’s a general moviegoing audience who wants to see a wider ST universe a la Solo, Rogue One, Rogue Squadron etc vs a premium cable / streaming audience (Mandalorian, Ahsoka, Rangers of the New Republic etc.)

I was not suggesting that they play either different or the same characters in the post TOS or KT timelines. I have seen and heard a lot of discussion about fans preferring TOS over KT. It just seems to me that fans are implying a new cast even if a movie were made in the TOS era. Star Trek will always be associated with Kirk, Spock and McCoy.and the ideas surrounding those characters. After all, they were the characters that started it all and they were the ones that fan loyalty fought to get back. That doesn’t mean that new characters can not be introduced but I personally feel that there are still TOS or KT stories left to tell. Remember TNG episode with the Enterprise existing in multiple timelines or realities. How many times have you seen fans referencing that they want the concepts of “old Trek” not the fast action Trek movies. Whether you like the Kelvin movies or not, I do think Abrams did a good job on the cast selection with the exception of Scotty. I did not originally like Pegg as Scotty but got used to him by the third movie. In my opinion, this cast was just beginning to gel as a crew and more to the point, the TOS crew. Maybe I am prejudiced but I just do not like the Trek on Paramount+, and Picard was never one of my favorite characters.

The Kelvin actors are pretty scheduled. Cho, Quinto, and Urban on TV, Saldana and Pine in movies. I’m sure if they plan to use these actors the work around for so many committed schedules is a nightmare.

Do theatrically released movies still make money? Perhaps it would make sense to just all new Star Trek content on Paramount+ and just forget about the theater. It is a shame, but it seems theaters are going to be a thing of the past soon.

Yep….however, Trek movies between 150-200MM (lets face it, Bad Robots projects have been near the 200MM number) in budget have been break even propositions. Abrams has insisted a Trek movie done right must be in this budget range, clearly Paramount is more comfortable green lighting a project in the 100-125MM range. So we wait. In the post covid world, I agree, content will likely be streaming, with limited theatrical release.

If they can keep the budget under control, yes. CGI for the sake of CGI needs to end. There was no need for all of Krall’s henchmen/foot soldiers to be CGI, for example.

I honestly think future movies will have smaller budgets and really be designed for Paramount+. If you feel the only way you can ‘compete’ in the theaters with $150+ million budgets, then Star Trek just can’t compete. It tried doing that three times already and none of them were big hitters. Studios only spend that kind of money when they think they are getting $500+ million films. Sadly I don’t even think the next film will do even $400 million with the Kelvin cast. I think those movies have fallen back to fanboy levels of interest mostly and not really for the mass audience. At least not the way a Marvel or Transformer movie does. And that’s the problem.

As Phil said, my guess is the next movie will be around $100 million tops. And it could even be lower than that. I think a big reason why they haven’t greenlit another film yet is for two reasons: They haven’t liked any of the scripts or because they can’t get the budget low enough.

As for theaters, they are not going anywhere, but they are becoming less and less of a priority because now the studios have complete control with streaming. People still want the theater experience but when you can distribute a movie directly to someone’s home now, it’s harder to compete with that outside of a big event movie.

I see a day where a Star Trek movie will hit theaters for 2-3 weeks for the hardcore fans but then hit Paramount+ afterward. No one is spending $200 million for something like that.

The commercial reality is if they are not going to bring the Kelvin crew back its too costly to make this a theatrical tentpole experience it will end up on Paramount +!!

What a surprise!

This is pretty normal. The new Spider-Man movie was originally scheduled for last week. Not a lot here for spin, but I’m sure folks will try.

Just cancel it. This is just another false hope. There is no guarantee this will be made either. All of the new Trek is right here on Paramount+ and we don’t need another movie – it better just be a Paramount+ Original to save them the embarrassment of underperforming just like Beyond did.

Star Trek: Burnham (2023) is long overdue

get ready for a next gen reboot in the kelvin universe….the way studios think nowadays it has to be this and only this. it’ll have been 21 years since Nemesis and i assume Picard will come to an end in early 2023 with season 3. so set up TNG in 2023, and have a kirk/picard crossover movie in 2025.

it’d be fun if they got tom hardy to be picard in a kelvin reboot of tng.

It’s possible but I kind of hope not. I LOVE TNG and I’m happy the TNG era is back on TV in a strong way. But I just hope another film just does something completely new. NO TOS or TNG reboots, try and be a little adventurous. If you need to have an Enterprise in the movies, fine, make it an Enterprise G or an Enterprise H. Go to another century! Or go back to the Enterprise B with a new crew. That can work fine too.

I guess I’m just tired of more of the same regardless of the crew. Give the movies some real originality instead of constantly rebooting it like a James Bond or Batman film. Trek fans want to see new things and non-fans don’t really care who is in it if Star Trek just doesn’t appeal to them. The Kelvin movies made that clear by the time Beyond premiered. A few will show up if they hear the movie itself is considered good at least.

But knowing Paramount it would probably be a crossover movie of some kind with legacy characters. I would be curious to see the Kelvin universe version of Captain Janeway though! I love having the animated version, but get her in a movie with Kirk and Picard, that would get me super interested! ;)

Why not go nuts and release a Trek movie every 2years without fail like the good old days. 2023 whatever this is (Into The Trekverse?). 2025 Tarantino Trek. 2027 Hawley Trek.

$$$$$$$

If the Paramount suits had a stable of production houses that could produce Trek movies for around 100MM, and they regularly saw 350-450MM in world wide box office, they’d be cranking out a movie every two years. They don’t, and likely their confidence is that the future of the franchise is in the streaming service….which is where all the activity it. We’ll likely see a feature length production on P+ before a theaterical release, IMHO….