Last week’s episode of Star Trek: Discovery, “Stormy Weather,” was helmed by Next Generation veteran Jonathan Frakes, who did a series of post-episode interviews about Discovery and his growing involvement in the Star Trek franchise.
Sees TNG Data parallel with Zora on Discovery
Speaking to Screenrant, Jonathan Frakes talked about the parallels between Star Trek: The Next Generation and the fourth season of Discovery, including moral and ethical questions. Frakes pointed to the emergence of Zora the ship’s AI becoming sentient as a particular example:
It has a lot of Data, doesn’t it? Aspiring to have sentience and aspiring to have human emotions… as Zora’s sentience and character has been revealed as the season goes on, I think it’s intriguing that the other characters on the show treat Zora with respect and a certain level of politeness and civility that one doesn’t associate with talking to Siri or a computer or Alexa. I think it’s very clever what’s happening with Zora, frankly.
Frakes also revealed to Inverse that because of the importance of Zora (who is voiced by Anabelle Wallis) for the episode, he brought in Canadian actress Robinne Fanfair to perform as Zora on set:
She became a member of our cast for that time. She acted a bit like Annabelle, and probably could have played the part outright if the role hadn’t already been cast.
Expects to return for Discovery season five
Last week’s episode was Jonathan Frakes’ seventh time behind the camera for Star Trek: Discovery. Even though he has been part of other new shows, he talked to io9 about how he still feels a special connection to Discovery:
Well, Discovery had become my, for lack of a better word, my home show. Because when I started with them in season one, I had… I felt this camaraderie. Unfortunately, I finally embraced that I’m the old guy. So, I was sort of a big brother figure or plucky uncle. Father. Whatever. I had come from another Star Trek and am thrilled to be directing this next version of Star Trek as well as Strange New Worlds and Picard, and to be part of Lower Decks, so, I feel very blessed to carry on the tradition of Star Trek. But I always look forward to coming on Discovery, because Sonequa is number one. You couldn’t ask for a better number one on a call sheet
He elaborated on how he saw a parallel between TNG and Discovery with Cinemablend:
When I started on Discovery, the actors were very, very curious…They reminded me a lot of our Star Trek family on the Enterprise on Next Gen in their camaraderie. But they were very curious about what they had gotten themselves into. And because I had, for better or worse, been doing it for, you know, thirty-five years and whatever it’s been, I was able to share some of the great privileges that come with what we all hoped was going to be a hit. And clearly, you know we’re in our fourth season now, and I’m assuming we’ll go on from there on Discovery.
A fifth season of Discovery has yet to be announced, but in his appearance on The Ready Room where he talked about the AR Wall (which was not required for “Stormy Weather”), Frakes indicated he expected to return to direct more Discovery:
I never got to shoot on [the AR Wall]… I will look forward to it next season, but it looks fabulous. I watched the cue take, which is what they feed into the producer’s office, it’s breathtaking… It beats what we used to do, which is talk to an “X” on a greenscreen.
Strange New Worlds season two, more Picard and Lower Decks too
Frakes also specified which upcoming seasons of other Star Trek shows he is working on as a director (via Screenrant):
I did a number of them in [Picard season] 2 and I’m just finishing editing a couple of [episodes I directed] in [season] 3. I love being on that show as well. And I’m booked to [direct] Strange New Worlds [season 2], which I missed out on [season 1] because of the pandemic.
The second season of Strange New Worlds has yet to be officially announced, but it is reported to be going into production in February of 2022, even before season one premieres, which is expected to happen in the spring. While he hasn’t yet directed Strange New Worlds, he did talk about how it will be different than the other shows, saying, “That show has yet another new flavor for Trek.”
In the case of Picard, Frakes had particularly high praise for new showrunner Terry Matalas, telling Inverse:
Terry [Matalas] is like [Lower Decks showrunner Mike] McMahan in that he has such incredible experience, and love — specific love — for the Next Gen. He’s got a wicked sense of humor and wonderful sense of storytelling. I think with Picard Season 2, Terry has nailed it.
Speaking of McMahan, Frakes indicated that he will return as Captain Riker in Lower Decks season three, telling Screenrant:
I’ve got more on Lower Decks. I just did a watch-along on Lower Decks with Mike McMahan and Jack Quaid [Boimler].
Find more from the Star Trek Universe.
People on Trek forums have been seeing AR walls everywhere saying, “I’m sure such and such scene was shot with the AR wall”.
With Frakes on record saying he hasn’t used the AR wall yet, I think we can at least rule out his episodes having them this season.
Wait, did he just drop the bomb and confirm that DSC season 5 and SNW season 2 are coming?
To be clear he says he expects to do DSC S5, there’s an unspoken “if” in there. We all expect it to be renewed, so it’s not a huge “if” frankly. And as the article links to, we already knew SNW S2 was coming.
We cannot be sure at this point but given all the money Viacom had to pay to get DSC off Netflix, I doubt it’ll be cancelled any time soon.
If that deal had failed, DSC might have been cancelled and replaced by a new show exclusively on P+ but now I actually feel quite confident DSC will continue for some more years. Just my guess.
Is there any information how much they paid to Netflix?
At this point it’s probably more than we’ll ever do in our lives.
Just to pull it out.
I mean if Frakes doesn’t tell us things that are supposed to be top secret, then what is he here for? ;D
I take a lot of s**t over poo pooing the ever changing schedule for Trek 14, this article really does demonstrate how subtle talking points reveal how a production house communicates with its behind the camera talent. Frakes isn’t spilling his guts here, but knowing he’s in demand, he likely has people who handle his work schedule for him. If he’s blocking out time, there’s other work going on, even without an announcement of renewals for season 2 and 5 of STD and SNW, respectively.
None of this happens with Trek 14. Just the occasional conference call from a studio suit that they are exploring new Trek movies. Well, no s**t, sherlock, that’s what you do. We’re at the 24 month mark right now from the recently moved release date. If there’s nothing but silence from Paramount, it’ll move again. It’ll likely move regardless, as with a Star Wars movie also plugged in to open that weekend now, Paramount won’t want its investment to get crushed like a bug.
Frakes has been great in Lower Decks. Good to see more of him on the way….
I told you before they officially moved the film’s date that I suspected they were going to move it, which they did a week later. Wouldn’t be surprised to hear it will be moved to 2024 either.
I’m hoping like crazy we actually get an actual movie this time instead of a bunch of ‘updates’ before Paramount drops it and everyone moves on again like the Hemsworth, Tarantino and Hawley movies. But sadly not holding my breath either. I think Paramount either just really have no confidence for the next film or doesn’t really know where to take the franchise next. Maybe they should just hold off and make a Prodigy film like they teased last month because it would be more for kids, a lot cheaper to make and will be another TV show turned film franchise which everyone seems to think is the best way to make the movies.
I hear what you are saying, but the “Paramount” you are rereferring to involving all of those cancelled movies is not the same Paramount under this new merged corporation. The mgmt team is new, and they have their financial act together. It’s basically a new company at the top, and I don’t think they are going to squander the Trek movie franchise given how the Kurtzman TV franchise has both revitalized Star Trek, plus is now bringing in new fans. They have grown the base, and the Paramount movie team has to see that as something to build upon and connect to.
I do think it’s possible that they might go an entirely new direction with the new movie vs. bringing back the Kelvin crew. That may be why we aren’t hearing much more on the new movie yet. I would say flip a coin on whether we get Kelvin or something new that is derived from Discovery or one of the other Kurtzman series: 50/50. And if they do go back to Kelvin, I still think there will be a Kurtzman-Trek tie-in. Michelle Yeoh showing up, etc — there are many options. My hope though is that do move away from JJA/Bad Robot, but I’m not holding my breath on that.
No offense, but I’ll believe it when I see it. I remember one poster a year ago assuring me that another movie was 100% happening soon and that TPTB were going to make it happen. He was very adamant. Then they all lost their jobs lol and that poster left.
They announced this movie 8 months ago! They then hired a writer and director for it and what news have we gotten since? They moved it off the original date. That’s literally the only thing we been told.
It is feeling like the boy crying wolf at this point. We been told this over and over again for 5 years now (wow). You know what will convince people? An actual starting date. Actual casting news or just announcing the Kelvin actors are back. NONE of that happened yet for a movie that is suppose to come out in 2 years now. It’s so odd.
You can be totally right of course but can you remotely blame people for feeling skeptical? If you can’t even make a Tarantino film happen (glad they didn’t since it sounded horrible) then I’m not convinced anything is etched in stone.
I do agree though they may try and find a way to get the movie crossing over with one or more of the shows. Would LOVE to see Picard, Janeway or Pike in the next film.
And lastly as I said, I don’t think it’s just about financing a film. Paramount isn’t broke. I just think they feel the next would could fail like Beyond did and reeeaaaally taking their time until they find something they think is more of a sure winner or at least won’t lose them $100 million like Beyond did. That seems to be the issue more than anything else but just my speculation.
Of course I completely get your skepticism — it’s legitimate and based on their pattern of behavior. However, “their” is different people in charge now. That could make a difference or it could not. I’ll take the glass half full on this for now, but I can see how many fans would choose the glass half empty on this and remain skeptical.
Paramount was seriously hurting financially several years ago, and the merger brought cash with it, so that issue has largely been dealt with. Also, Paramount dropped the ball on marketing Beyond; it was “John Carter-level” bad marketing, and this was made even worse by a horrible release date reschedule.
Hopefully they will give some major announcement in the next few months. But if it’s nothing more than moving the date yet again….fans won’t be happy ;)
As usual, we should know one way or the other soon I guess.
One Lion, the issue is that the pattern of management behaviour goes very far back, all the way to the 1970s.
If there is anything that I took from the currently running documentary series The Center Seat, it’s the the movies have almost always been run in a chaotic way.
New leadership at the top of the integrated Paramount studios will surely want to turn the ship, but addressing deep institutional problems is a really tough assignment.
I don’t think that really computes. The last set of movies were farmed out to Bad Robot, while all the earlier movies were done in-house. And now the entire corporate mgmt structure has largely been replaced. Apples and Oranges and Grapes. Now, if you want to call all of these factors together an institutional problem, sure that computes. But to suggest it’s a problem resulting from long-term institutional factors with the same staff and problems occurring over and over, well that really is not the reason for what has happenned over the last 15 years.
The “entire corporate mgmt structure has largely been replaced”…multitudes of times over the past few decades. Have you been paying attention?
I have been observing Paramount studios actions since the mid-1970’s.
Beyond shakeups at the very top, the “suits” and institutional practices and department key staff at Paramount Studios associated with Star Trek up until 2006 were relatively (i.e. compared to the past 15 years) stable for a movie studio, with of course some upper level CEO/COO/director-level shakeups that occur regularly in any movie company.
This severely contrasts to past 15 years, when Viacom broke up Star Trek production between Paramount from CBS, then Paramount farmed out the movies to Bad Robot to oversee and CBS ran their own TV Trek franchise, then Paramount Studios went nearly bankrupt, and then the two companies were re-merged with a completely new team heading up the new Paramount.
So that is my assessment. I’d like to hear yours, because your one-line, insulting little quip is not very compelling. Please back up your statement with real information, if you have any?
I’d really love to see a movie that deals with a Trek multi-verse / cross-over issue that allows the Kelvin universe to interact with Prime universe (which would be the Strange New Worlds team or the Picard Team). I think DISCO would be out of the picture for a Kelvin cross-over film.
Maybe they could actually set up a space station within a Multi-verse nexus that manages and regulates Federation activity, information, and technology trafficking between universes (and mirrors).
Just a thought.
The huge success of Spiderman NWH (1b already) means its got to be a certainly Trek XIV (probably best to refer as such now considering its doubtful it will be entirely a Kelvin based film) will be a multiverse movie featuring the Kelvin cast interacting with a selection of ‘prime’ Prime characters (CGI Shatner/Nimoy, Stewart/Spiner, Seven, Yeoh? Mount?) in some time travel/galaxy ending plot involving the return of certain villains (Khan? Soran? and maybe Nero again since he started the whole kelvin thing off and pretty sure Bana would be up for a come back, in which case may as will throw Hemsworth back in to the mix for added Marvel appeal)
It would have to be a great screenplay, but if it works, this could be really cool.
Question for you. I saw Far from Home in the theaters and thought it was really bad — like an expensive Disney teen series. Is No way Home much, much better?
Haven’t seen NWH yet but seen the trailers etc it does look very cool, unlike the last one being almost purely for a teen audience (didnt care for HC much either despite batman being in it)
Yeah I think a lot of people would love a multiverse (and time) crossover. They base it around the Temporal Cold War literally anyone can fit. You can then bring in Archer and the NX-01 crew, the Kelvin universe characters, any TNG era characters, SNW, Discovery and so on. They don’t ALL have to appear but a few here and there would be great.
And then it will get both Kelvin and definitely Prime fans excited. They can even bring in the KU characters into the Prime universe.
I would just be happy bringing in most of the captains like Janeway, Archer, Picard, Kirk, Burnham etc. with a few additional characters like Seven, Riker, Spock or Worf.
But yeah this costs $$$$ and I’m not even sure they want to spend that much on the next movie considering they didn’t want to pay Pine what he was owed. We add up anyone from the previous shows, it’s going to get higher fast even if just a few are brought back.
As long as a multiverse movie doesn’t involve characters meeting in the wood, having breakfast and riding horses, i am fine with that idea.
…or bridges killings off key characters. :)
Yeah, such a team-up, multiverse and multiple-era spanning movie would be expensive to make. It would probably also have a good chance of failing at the boxoffice. Marvel has built up a lot of hype over many years and movies which is why most of their movies are now almost guaranteed to rake in a ton of cash. This excitement just doesn’t exist for Trek. General audiences have probably all but forgotten the Kelvin movies by now. Shatner and Stewart may be celebrities but they are not big boxoffice draws. The last movie Shatner starred in made less than $50000 at the boxoffice. Stewart’s last blockbuster movie (Charlie’s Angels) made less than 75 million. “Coda” where Stewart played the lead character made $650,000. Given how divided Trek fandom seems to be these days I’m not even sure Paramount could count on the “core” audience to show up for such a movie.
Oh it would def have to be limited budget nothing like Kelvin 200m budgets. Around 100m but even that would be risky now. The cast would have to understand theses are different times due to covid making anything that isn’t Marvel a risk so no huge 10m pay checks (thered be multiple characters so less screen time for each anyway). Still its doable. I mean they often all turn up for a big convention for a couple of days so why not some movie sets
I think this is why Hawley was going for a completely different cast. We don’t know what they were thinking for that – could be anyone whose “star-meter” is high.
True, but the new TV properties are obviously now growing the base, and the new movie is two years away — so lots more time for the TV properties to grow the base further.
When Beyond was released, there were 0 Trek series on the air.
This is why I think they need to try to tie the movie to the current series’ in some fashion.
I’m sure that the new streaming series are bringing in new audiences. I’m just not sure how many. I realize that the people posting at this website aren’t necessarily representative of the full audience but most people seem to have been fans long before the new shows came around.
At the same time, the new shows have definitely alienated part of the fanbase.
And I think it’s pretty clear that neither the old fanbase nor people brought in by the new shows can bring in a billion at the boxoffice.
It could make sense to tie the movie to the current shows in some fashion but it also raises the question: Why should people go to the cinema to see something they can get streamed directly to their home on a weekly basis? Given how big the new shows have gotten, what more can a movie offer, especially if the studio cannot dump $200 million on it?
I doubt Archer/Enterprise would ever be in a movie, despite the awesome final season Ent was just too much of a flop and too obscure to anyone not a hard trekkie (the new tv/stream stuff is another matter, fully expect to see Bakula & Co eventually). probably be same for DS9 (and Disco too new).. If there was to be a ‘Star Trek No Way Home’ itd probably just feature some/all of the Kelvin cast with TOS (Shatner CG deage/deepfake with ‘cameos’ from Nimoy and the rest) and maybe TNG (Stewart with Dorn/Spiner/Frakes) and probably 7of9
Agreed. They need to keep that failure of a series away from the film franchise. Never throw good money after bad.
LOL I figure I knew what you had a previous handle here and you just confirmed it. But it’s no biggie. But your writing style gives it away over and over and over again. ;) But you’re trying, so I have no issues about it and hope we can keep discussing things civilly. You don’t even have to respond to this.
Disagree. If it is done it should be done diving completely in the pool. Use as many characters from as many shows as you can. Regardless of popularity or lack of. As much as you wouldn’t want to see Enterprise characters I wouldn’t want to see ANY of the Secret Hideout characters.
Just to clarify, if they have a more simple crossover movie like when TNG and DS9 did a partial crossover episode that one time, then OK, they don’t need EVERY show obviously. Just a few characters from both shows show up in the movie. And to be honest, if we ever did get a crossover film, it will probably be something closer to that, like TNG and the Kelvin verse connecting (as an example).
But if we’re talking something BIG like the Avengers, then yeah I think that is something people expect to see all the different properties coming together and that would definitely include all the classic shows. It doesn’t mean it has to be that way but the expectations would be there. Enterprise would be a HUGE part of that because of their history within the Star Trek universe. They are the ones that helped formed the Federation. They weren’t just another ship like the Cerritos, they were a big part of history which Discovery itself reminds us over and over again. Non fans wouldn’t care, but it would upset a lot of fans today if everyone was included BUT them.
And I really do think people underestimate how much more loved Enterprise is today, because as said, a lot of newer fans have been watching it like all the shows and it seems to be much more popular with newer fans. And I also think its the nostalgia effect where people who didn’t like it the past has warmed up a lot to it now. And when you compare it to how it’s viewed to the newer stuff I think it holds up VERY well lol.
But again, this is all just speculation, the chances of any of it happening is probably slim to none. But we can dream. ;)
“I doubt Archer/Enterprise would ever be in a movie, despite the awesome final season Ent was just too much of a flop and too obscure to anyone not a hard trekkie (the new tv/stream stuff is another matter, fully expect to see Bakula & Co eventually). probably be same for DS9 (and Disco too new).. If there was to be a ‘Star Trek No Way Home’ itd probably just feature some/all of the Kelvin cast with TOS (Shatner CG deage/deepfake with ‘cameos’ from Nimoy and the rest) and maybe TNG (Stewart with Dorn/Spiner/Frakes) and probably 7of9”
First off, you’re talking about it as if it’s 20 years ago when it was on UPN. I don’t think that matters anymore. Enterprise is seen in every corner of Star Trek fandom as every other show is today. It seems to be MUCH more popular now than it has ever been. So I don’t think it really matters it was cancelled because thanks to streaming most Star Trek fan has watched and watches it today.
Secondly, let’s be very honest here, this movie will still be mostly for Trek fans. None fans don’t care about a team up movie lol. ONLY fans do, right? But that’s also the issue I admit, because end of the day crossover movies are for fans first and foremost. They are fan service movies in every since of the word like No Way Home was. The difference with stuff like MCU and DC is they have a looooot more casual fans and can turn out billion dollar films. Star Trek will never be that unfortunately no matter who you throw on the screen. But if it’s a big enough film, it can still get fans excited and go over and over again.
You mentioned SNW in your post being part of the movie, a show that hasn’t even been out yet lol. No one cares about that show even being on unless you already watch Star Trek pretty regularly right?
As for non fans, it doesn’t matter who you throw out there, it’s all a big shrug to most of them. But sure if the hype is big enough, then yeah you will get some interested like I imagine the more hyped films did, but it’s going to be mostly for casual or hardcore fans, ie, people already in the bubble.
As for Enterprise, I’m not suggesting any of the characters would be the main lead, some would just be part of the movie. I mean if you make a movie with an entire new cast of characters, it’s not going to entice non fans either way. With this approach you’ll guarantee more fans to see it, the question is will it be enough? And my honest is I don’t know, it will probably just come down to the story itself and how they market it. IE, hype like the first Kelvin movie got.
And since the last Kelvin movie bombed, we’re not talking about MCU levels of fandom here like No Way Home. And some people probably forgot that Far From Home, the second Spider-Man movie also made a billion dollars. So No Way Home was going to be huge no matter what. Being a big cross over will probably add a third more money than what Far From Home did.
With the Kelvin movies, people have probably moved on from those movies as well. Most fans don’t even talk about them much anymore and probably because they are being ignored in the new shows (unlike Enterprise). The point is to make it a big enough Star Trek event for fans as a ‘must see’.
Tiger – I had a slight gasm when you mentioned the Temporal Cold War.
I love the dramatic, espionage, technobabble, time-fluid opportunities that the TCW offers.
To me it is an untapped gem of a story line as we don’t know the detail of how it finally concluded …. beyond Admiral Vance saying time travel is illegal. Detail please!!!
It boggles my mind that the DISCO writers haven’t given a couple of episodes to it… unless…. Maybe S31 will hit the on the TCW narrative opportunity.
My concern is whether TCW is big screen fare or is better served as series TV fare. To me Trek in movies with a big bad and 15 big action scenes is worth little. Trek on screen needs to be big ideas and big consequences. What if Zephram was a drunk? What if the Borg visited earth before warp? What if Fed-Klingon peace was jeopardized by a murder conspiracy?
What if S31 was in a black site still fighting the TCW in the DISCO era but the enemy is a comprised Fed hierarchy that has forgotten the spirit of its charter and now simply seeks imperialistic hegemony by creating the DMA to help it rule through fear, killing a planet of spore drive pilots so spore tech is controlled by the Fed, cornering the market for all dilithium, and strong arming planets into joining the Fed?
I would buy that for a dollar.
In all honesty, TCW story line would probably suit better on TV because you can really go hard with it than you can in a movie. And you can flesh it out more. But it’s something I think most fans agree is the easier way to involve multiple time periods and even universes because that story line is so big and wide spread. Thanks to Discovery, we’re talking about it more than we have in ages, so that show gets credit for at least reviving it even if it’s mostly in the background.
Of course they can just do something completely new and inventive for a crossover movie
I think you are on to something. As someone who would prefer not to see such a thing if a major crossover was planned using the TCW (from Enterprise, BTW…) would be the best way to go. Let’s face it, the entire concept is just one huge fangasm. So there would be no reason not to go full on Lower Decks and use as much from all the shows as you could get away with. And you may as well go all in and spend the money for digital head replacements (ala Peter Cushing in Rogue One) so you could use TOS cast as well.
I would just be happy to see Georgiou land in the Kelvin Universe and team up with Uhura.
As I’ve been saying since she went into the Guardian of Forever, there’s a clear opportunity for her to hop around and protect the Prime timeline where Burnham and the Federation have a “luminous” future.
It would be a risk to try to drop in too many legacy characters in one outing though.
I’m really always worried about fan-servicey crossovers like Generations that end up satisfying no one.
But a single trip to the KU could be fun and set up the premise for a show or a series of made for streaming movies.
I’d love to hear Georgiou tell KU Spock that he’s much more fun in the Prime Universe and should lose his attitude.
I agree. Georgiou seems like a win-win for the TV series’ connection in the next movie, given Yeoh is an international star, and given it would fit the timeline of the Kelvin movies (she’d be older, but I don’t see that as an issue.)
I just can’t get behind Space Hitler no matter what, but yeah I agree it would be easier to see her hopping around universes and time periods thanks to the GOF. But considering how divisive she is in fandom, I don’t think it would be a great idea she would be the lead in a movie either.
I would prefer they give that to an iconic character if was just about one character from Prime universe going to the Kelvin like Picard. Maybe Q sent him there. That would probably be a lot more popular but my opinion only.
And no offense I wish people stop giving Generations as an example. For one thing it was a BAD crossover movie because Paramount at the time DIDN’T want a crossover movie. They did everything they could to limit it as a crossover story; mostly because they probably didn’t want to pay the TOS cast. But Ron Moore laid out all the ridiculous conditions they were given to make it and said Paramount never wanted a crossover film so it was compromised from the start. And yes, the movie itself just wasn’t great (I still like it though).
And this was also 1994 lol. Even then, the idea of Batman and Superman appearing together was still very much a pipe dream. That was a time where this thing just wasn’t very common, at least not on the big screen.
I think people need to look around what is happening today; it’s a whole new ball game. We have to stop looking inward and see the level it’s being done everywhere else now. And it’s satisfying a LOT of people out there on both big and small screens.
Again, I’m not a fan of the idea at all but using the Q to move characters from one universe to another is the best way, considering all the preexisting in-universe options, to do it. And probably the one that makes the most sense. And I’m not a fan of Q either.
Regarding Generations… I had thought the intent was to have a crossover so they can cinematically “hand off the torch” to TNG. It was even marketed that way. I think the overall disappointment came because audiences thought that Kirk and Picard were going to be teaming up for a full movie adventure. But what they ended up with was just them together for a portion of the final act. IMHO that was a tremendous mistake. I wanted the two to get to know each other and perhaps even learn a little from each other. I also had read that there were parts written for ALL of the TOS cast. But most just didn’t want to show up for such a minuscule role. Supposedly Kelly was game but his health did not allow it.
At any rate, I believe I have heard Moore admit that while he wanted to do something “unexpected” with them what he wrote from the two of them didn’t work as well as he would have liked. But I still think Kirk’s “It was fun.” line was amazingly appropriate.
“Regarding Generations… I had thought the intent was to have a crossover so they can cinematically “hand off the torch” to TNG. It was even marketed that way.”
Obviously true, but originally that’s not what Paramount themselves wanted. They only wanted a TNG film. This is all stuff based on interviews I read from Rick Berman, Rom Moore and Brannon Braga discussing the movies over the years. They were the ones who came up with including the TOS cast, but Paramount didn’t want it. Again, they never explicitly stated it, but my guess is money was a big reason why. And I think the ‘pass the torch’ angle is what convinced them to ultimately do it, because it does market the movie very well.
“I think the overall disappointment came because audiences thought that Kirk and Picard were going to be teaming up for a full movie adventure. But what they ended up with was just them together for a portion of the final act. IMHO that was a tremendous mistake. I wanted the two to get to know each other and perhaps even learn a little from each other.”
I agree completely but it directly goes to the point I’m making and why I wish people stop using this movie as an example of a ‘crossover’ film, because according to Rom Moore, they didn’t want what you just described. According to him, they originally just wanted the TOS cast in the first 15 minutes of the film as a cameo. All they wanted was to see the original cast show up together and then literally have the TNG cast continue the story in the rest of the film. That was the original intent, to basically start the story line in the 23rd century but it would be dealt with in the 24th century(which they actually did with the Nexus). They didn’t even want them to interact together at all. The story itself would connect the crews but that would be it.
Of course the writers wanted something a lot more grand and they really wanted Kirk throughout the ENTIRE movie. But Paramount didn’t so the compromise became Kirk can be used but only in the first and last act. I think they were afraid it would be seen as a Kirk film if he was there through it all. And my guess they only agreed to that since they were killing him off lol.
All of this is around online of course. I remember reading some of this stuff in Starlog back when the film premiered. But it’s eye rolling when people keep pointing to Generations as a ‘crossover’ film because it was basically one in name only. People who wanted to see something like ‘Yesterday’s Enterprise’ was never going to get that at that time. Kirk only hung out with Picard in the Nexus and a boring planet in the last 20 minutes of the film. I’m sure fans would’ve loved to see him on the Enterprise D like we got to see Scotty. Actually interact with other characters, etc, but none of that was ever in the cards.
Now I’m not blaming Paramount for it all, the movie still had a lot of issues on how it was structured with tons of plotholes, you have to blame the writers for that. But we all know they really rushed making the film and Paramount made it VERY difficult to just make a pure crossover film and why we got something as loony as the Nexus as a plot device. But I also think they didn’t want to do yet another time travel story…until the next one lol.
Again though, this was all back in the 90s. Today it would be VERY different because yeah, things have changed dramatically since then. Just like on TV at that time people were scarred to make shows too serialized, well today that is a 180 degree change. Crossovers are all the rage. For pete sakes we have TWO different Batmans showing up in a Flash movie next year. We just had three Spider-Mans together. It’s not even about a shared universe anymore, now properties are tying in the multiverse which Star Trek has been one for decades now. Of course we already got two different Spocks on screen back in 2009. So NONE of this is an issue. If any franchise can go bigger, it’s certainly Star Trek if they ever chose to.
I don’t think using Space Stalin is a good idea for any Trek concept whatsoever. She seems to ruin everything she touches.
I like that idea!
Been there, done that. It’s called Generations. Lets not go there again.
But what if we all know – mostly – that Generations was not fully satisfying and that it could be done 1000% better?
Kind of like saying, “Battlestar Galactica” has been done and done with heavy cheese back 40 or 50 years ago… let that dead and beaten horse stay dead. Oh wait! Ron Moore can do BSG better and bring it to the level high sci-fi drama and social commentary that sets new standards for the genre.”
Should justified disdain for prior failings automatically
prevent future attempts at improvement?
Yeah I mean love Phil, but this is the odd narrow minded Trek fan thinking. So because they did it half @ss once nearly 30 years ago, then clearly it can never be done improved on. And I guess you have to ignore all the big crossover movies that are happening in droves. Infinity War should’ve been an utter disaster but it turned out amazing and will probably be the standard of how you can do a large crossover film for decades to come.
Yeah I mean love Phil, but this is the odd narrow minded Trek fan thinking. So because they did it half @ss once nearly 30 years ago, then clearly it can never be improved on. And I guess you have to ignore all the big crossover movies that are happening in droves. Infinity War should’ve been an utter disaster but it turned out amazing and will probably be the standard of how you can do a large crossover film for decades to come.
Personally I feel like the multiverse concept just works better in the super hero comic world than for a franchise like Star Trek. Yes, one can argue that the MU is the multiverse but I just don’t exactly see that as the same thing exactly. The KU films weren’t technically a different universe in the multiverse. It was just a change in the timeline. Unless one wants to argue that every decision by every person ever creates an infinite number of alternate realities. Which I guess is valid… But my bottom line is I’d rather just see either reboots, disconnected stand alones or films set in the prime timeline than deal with a “multiverse”.
I seriously doubt the Trek 14 scheduling thing has anything to do with these P+ series, including their renewals.
Lucasfilm hasn’t released a movie since the Rise of Skywalker. Indiana Jones V keeps getting delayed. I doubt a new Star Wars is produced and in theaters before Indiana Jones is. The pandemic has basically made their ouput zero except for streaming television. Paramount still hasn’t even released their own much delayed and most anticipated Mission Impossible 7. I doubt Star Trek is anywhere near production.
I’d say the earliest Trek 14 is out will be 2025.
After Beyond underperformed there was no obvious direction to go after that and Paramount clearly didn’t have a clue where to go or wish to greenlight production. Essentially development hell as they call it.
But because the TV shows are apparently doing just fine, the movie series is fine to just hibernate for a decade or so.
Yeah this is a great point too. Paramount has delayed so many films that are ALREADY shot, I have my doubts the next Trek film will be coming out in two years. Even if they actually manage tp start filming it next year, I still think it will get moved back to later given how things are going for most of the industry. The only big franchise that is getting their output out is Marvel. They managed to get four movies out this year (and five shows on). And even all of those got delayed obviously. Black Widow got pushed back 3 times.
And I also notice the films Paramount keeps delaying are there huge films like MI and Transformers. The smaller films are coming out or been thrown on Paramount+ like Paw Patrol. But their biggest films seems to keep getting pushed back because they clearly want the most optimum viewing on those and I imagine it will be the same for Star Trek. I would think in two years it will be fine though.
Forgot about Transformers. I was actually looking forward to that if it was more like Bumblebee and less like The Last Knight which is one of the worst movies i’ve ever seen. But Snake Eyes was bad so maybe i should temper my expectations. Love Peter Cullen though i’ll watch him every time he plays Optimus Prime, and i’ve suffered through those Bayformers movies.
I love the way Jonathan “Two Takes” Frakes did the “V for Victory” salute.
SO happy to hear Captain Riker will be back on LDS! Not really a surprise, I think many expected it, especially since he’s a fan favorite and many want to see the Titan again. Would love to see him back as semi-retired Riker on Picard but doesn’t sound like it will happen in season 2 but fingers crossed for season 3…or 4.
And happy to hear him say how big of a TNG fan Terry Matalas like McMahan clearly is and hopefully we will get a better season of Picard. Also may explain why Q and the Borg Queen are back. It’s just nice to see the TNG era back in full force since it’s easily my favorite era!
I’m sure Frakes pinches himself everyday to be working on Star Trek again on this level. It’s basically just like his Star Trek career post TNG where he would direct a few of the other shows (and movies) and still pop up as Riker here and there. I say when LDS is done, give us an animated Titan show starring him and Marina Sirtis. Have McMahan run that show as well. Would be a HUGE hit!
Think I’m right in saying we all hoped and dreamed TNG would come back one day and wed see Captain Riker, Admiral Picard and Co , it was never going to be another film after the one two gut/neck punch of Ins/Nem but a ‘Phase II’ TNG series is surely what most/all respecting Trek fans must’ve wished for. Ok we know Picard s1 was more ‘TNG Awakens’ meets Logan but it looks like s2 be more fan pleasing now PStew got more comfortable being back in Trek I guess,
Yeah I definitely agree. I have always said I DON’T need another TNG show, just having some of the characters back in this universe is enough for me. But sure I wouldn’t fight it if many of them ended up on the Enterprise either. ;)
I have a sneaky feeling whatever happens in season 2 will get them on a starship by season 3. Again, even if people hate Kurtzman and think he’s a hack, they certainly can’t say he doesn’t listen to the fans. They obviously know Picard season 1, like Discovery, wasn’t a huge home run with fans and probably trying to make it feel a bit more in the style and spirit of TNG in the next two seasons. I wouldn’t be shocked to see a few more characters like Beverly and definitely Worf back at some point.
Tiger I second your animated Titan idea. This would be good opportunity to bring back more characters from the whole TNG era as well and I think it would be very successful. I hope McMahan considers this after LDS finishes.
Yeah I think that would be a really fun idea. You can have a more direct TNG and post-Nemesis spin off show where anyone from TNG can show up at any time like LDS does now. Data would be the only one out.
I think a lot of people like Lower Decks because it’s the closest they have to a TNG and post-Nemesis spin off fans have wanted for decades now. Unfortunately because it’s a comedy, it puts off other fans too. A Titan show can still be more fun than what TNG was, but not a broad comedy like LDS either.
In fact if we think bigger this could even lead to a creation of a kind of a Trek animated universe in a similar way to the DC animated universe that can go on for years and years with different ships and crews both familiar and unfamiliar. I mean think about it, they are still releasing DC animated movies to this day and most of those have been very good. Why can’t Trek or Star Wars do something similar?
I think it might be important to remember that the DC animateds are stand alones. Not part of a larger continuity. Which seems to work for them but I would argue that comic book fans are more accepting to such things as I heard that sort of thing happens in the published books all the time.
Looking good, Mr. Frakes.
It is absolutely impossible not to love Jonathan Frakes.
Not entirely impossible. He’s an OK director but a very mediocre and inconsistent actor.
He’s admitted himself he’s not a very good actor at all. And I agree with him. He’s not. He’s a decent actor’s director who has has shown he can work given the current restraints of a TV schedule. And he’s better at that than he ever was an actor.
I think he’s amazing as Riker. The character wouldn’t be so popular if people thought he was bad in the role. I think he means he doesn’t have a lot of range, ie, like Johnny Depp and can play whatever they need him to. But he’s good with certain roles like Riker.
It sounds like you might be more enamored with the character of Riker than you are with the actor. But that’s OK. Back then I was actually more impressed with Stewart the actor over the character of Picard.
Uh no. And the guy has played Riker for 30 years, no one ever talks about him being a ‘bad actor’ in it the way people have talked about William Shatner or Avery Brooks. Both of those has gotten that from fans, but mainly due to their acting styles since both came from the stage before doing a lot of TV.
I think Frakes is fine. No he’s not Patrick Stewart but most actors on Star Trek isn’t lol.
Yeah but he’s a good Riker
I wish he was in charge of the whole franchise. He *gets* it.
I agree mostly with this Danpaine. Frakes really understands the franchise the way we do. Every time he talks about it, he really gets the spirit of it and would love for someone like that to be the proprietor of it.
Now THAT said, I don’t know if he should run the whole thing either. Frakes has been involved in producing things like Roswell and The Librarians (never seen it but heard great things), but very little. I don’t know if he can handle the responsibility at something at this level. I think you get someone who knows how to produce and juggle multiple shows at once and be successful at it as well. That’s really why Kurtzman got the job. Obviously his previous work on the Kelvin movies helped (we won’t discuss the actual quality) but also because he has been involved with so many shows and most have been hits.
But I wish Frakes was more involved in just directing a few episodes every year. Make him a producer and make it a REAL job; not a ‘consultant’ like Meyer supposedly was on Discovery. Get him involved in creating the shows or the direction they go in.
The thing is I think Frakes is just happy being a “director” and not anything else. I doubt he’d want to be fully involved in all the money and management issues that come with being a producers. He is one of those guys that really enjoys directing and has a certain passion for it.
Maybe I missed it, but I’m surprised no one asked him about appearing again on screen in Picard!
I feel like there was an interview a few months ago in which Frakes specifically mentioned that while he was directing episodes in Season 2, he wasn’t appearing in any Season 2 episodes. With that being said, he didn’t say anything about season 3, so…
I almost wish they could make another TNG movie, and Frakes directed it. With all of the cast. I know Nemesis came out in 2002 and time has moved on. But that still doesn’t mean i don’t want another movie. Picard is a taste of what might have been, there is all sorts of hinted at stories in between Nemesis and Picard that haven’t been properly told.
For the record, I was never a big fan of JL Picard. Felt he was a duller than dull character no one in their right mind would want to hang with. But Patrick Stewart was such a fine and charismatic actor that he made this dry character watchable. But, especially after seeing Picard season 1, it seems that his luster has completely faded. He’s lost his charisma and literally everything he did to make Picard a character that made me want to see him even though there was no reason to want to see him. I honestly don’t think this was a conscious decision of Stewart’s part. I really think he is just a different actor today. I guess age catches up to us all.
can we PLEASE see him again in that captain’s suite? one of the best scenes of picard s1. screen just loves him.
To me the takeaway was Frakes saying he is scheduled to direct a 2nd season SNW show. Which strongly suggests that while it’s not officially announced it probably follows the precedent of many short season streaming shows. They nearly all get two seasons at least. Probably due to the each season being so short.
Other than that it’s just the typical PR. The person involved in the project stroking it whether it’s a good product or not. Not judging. They all do it. It’s par for the course for those who want to keep working.
Well they asked him pertinent questions of how involved he is in future seasons as an actor and director. He wasn’t just saying how great everyone is, he was really discussing what he’s actually doing on the shows or expects to do.
Would be great to see a movie with all the Captains, including CGI Shatner, to deal with the Temporal Wars. So many good and beloved characters could participate in this project.
Surprised no one has suggested having this multiverse/avengers type of project including Avery Brooks!? For some reason, watching that eye on the DMA, I cannot stop thinking about our great Emissary. I am officially requesting Star Trek: The Return of the Sisko.
Avery Brooks seems very content to teach, and apparently is very choosy considering roles he’s offered. As a fan of DS9, I can respect that and would not encourage anyone badgering him about returning to the grind.
Totally. But giving him the opportunity to participate, like Patrick Stewart for Picard, I think could be a possibility he may consider.
His special relationship with Ira Steven Behr was crucial for DS9 and a big success in developing the back story for Sisko. It seems Ira was very welcoming for his input.
Everyone is excited Stewart returned to his role. Giving Brooks the same opportunities could be a good bet to see the Emissary one more time. =)
Doesn’t seem much news about Picard and Strange New Worlds considering they are imminent for release?
Hopefully soon though.
SNW is so quiet. But once Prodigy is back, they will promote Picard and Discovery, that’s for sure.