While Star Trek fandom isn’t necessarily known for consensus, every fan has some opinion they know isn’t generally agreed upon. This week the full complement of the Shuttle Pod crew gathers to discuss their (potentially) unpopular opinions about Trek. Join Kayla, Matt, Brian, and Jared as they talk about topics including how the Star Trek: Discovery season one prologue (“The Vulcan Hello” and “Battle at the Binary Stars”) is actually a good introduction, Sulu’s orientation in Star Trek Beyond was actually not shown on-screen (only in press interviews), the USS Cerritos is actually a cool-looking ship, and perhaps most controversial, Next Generation season two is better than season seven.
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Very good podcast episode. I agree with almost everything that was said. I disagree on some episodes but that’s just natural…
I’ve got my own set of very unpopular opinions that I absolutely stand by.
I love TOS S3 and TNG S1 for the very reason those seasons showed “strange new worlds”… paper planets, yeah, but much better than bottled shows or the Californian woods and deserts time and again…
I really like GEN but I also tend to defend TFF a lot. It’s by far not my favourite and it has technical issues but I love the character moments and yes, I love the overall PLOT…
Another unpopular opinion is that DS9 is not my favourite show, it isn’t even in close range. I like DS9 for what it is but that’s it. It’s not core Trek for me. Tier 1 covers TOS and TNG, Tier 2 all the other ship-based shows: VOY, PRO, ENT, DSC… and then come DS9 and PIC in Tier 3… followed by all the 2D animated stuff in Tier 4…
“Another unpopular opinion is that DS9 is not my favourite show, it isn’t even in close range. I like DS9 for what it is but that’s it. It’s not core Trek for me.”
I don’t care for DS9 either. Too much Klingon politics, too many Bajoran nuns and Ferengi popes.
In the end the real USP and joy of the show was the brilliant range of supporting characters.
But also seeing the Fed, Starfleet deal with a massive threat like the Dominion and keep its principles in time of war
So what if it’s a lot of people’s favorite but not yours? No one can tell someone their favorite Star Trek series is wrong any more than they can say their favorite pizza topping is wrong. It’s *your* favorite. It shouldn’t be up for debate.
DS9 may not be my most favorite Star Trek show, but I can’t deny that in DS9 we learned most about all the alien races in Star Trek Universe apart from Vulcans and Maybe Romulans
I like DS9 a lot, but it is definitely the most insular Trek show. So much of it is about the politics of a fictional universe, and it’s hard to get a casual viewer to care about that.
I’ll join in the DS9 bashing. Worst show of the Berman era for me by far. But I love it when I love it, and there are great episodes in every season.
Wait, wait. Worse that Enterprise? I can understand someone loving Voyager more (some shows just hit you right), but Enterprise? The show with only maybe 3-4 good characters (and mostly good actors), which meanders for two seasons before having one decent and then one really good season and perhaps the worst finale of all time, but which also underserved it’s whole premise and had massive clunkers of plot lines like the Temporal Cold War (with Space Alien Nazis) and was cancelled before it could really address some interesting historical events (like the founding of the Federation, and the Romulan War)? That Berman Era show is above DS9 for you?
There is nothing in Enterprise that angers me the way much of DS9 angers me, so yes.
Nah Ds9 is the best, TNG is the worst. Bland to unlikable crew. Bland episides.
Great episode as always. The only problem with the Shuttle Pod is that they don’t do enough episodes! It is the best Trek Podcast easily.
Season 2 is so underrated. It is clearly better than Season 7 and In my opinion is better than 6 as well. Season 2 sets the tone for the entire series going forward. Is it perfect? No. But it’s a bridge between the TOS and TNG Season 1 tone, to the 90s trek we all know and love.
I am surprised that season 2 is getting so much love. For me, it is the worst season of TNG. Season 1, maybe because of the leftover TOS/Phase II scripts and it’s being still largely undefined for being brand new, has a sense of the wonder and exploration that TOS had.
TNG Season 2 loses that edge, but hasn’t yet evolved enough with the characters/universe and storytelling style to make up for it.
For me, season 2 only has a handful of decent episodes (Elementary, Dear Data; Contagion, The Emissary, and Peak Performance) and two all-time great episodes: Q Who, and Measure of a Man). Season 7 has a raft of better than decent shows (Gambit, Phantasms, Attached, Lower Decks, Thine Own Self, Firstborn, Preemptive Strike), and three all-time great episodes (Parallels, The Pegasus, and All Good Things).
Season 7 definitely has some great episodes. Although Sub Rosa is all I can ever think about when someone mentions season 7. My love for season 2 is just the vibe that it has. It still has some of that TOS magic in the storytelling, but it also has what TNG comes to be loved for in the coming seasons. To me it’s a hybrid.
I would also throw in Where Silence has Lease, Matter of Honor, The Royale (fun factor), Time Squared and Samaritan Snare to the list of good S2 eps.
But objectively, is Sub Rosa any worse plot-wise than The Royale? And Sub Rosa is a rare Beverly-centric episode and has much better production values (I’m reaching for anything positive here).
Thank you for the kind words. We have returned to our bi-weekly format and have a bunch of good ideas for future shows!
I really enjoyed this podcast. Keep up the great work!
Yeah, I am glad you guys are back. You have fun topics and great discussions!
My minority point of view:
Most TOS fans think of “The City on the Edge of Forever” as the best TOS episode ever, possibly even the best episode in all of Star Trek. I loved it when I was in my teens, but when I re-watched it at age 55, I was less impressed. I think it’s good, don’t get me wrong, but I didn’t really believe that Kirk could fall in love with Edith Keeler, and if Kirk isn’t in love with her, then gosh, it’s an awful shame that they have to let such a nice woman die, but it’s not the great tragedy that it would otherwise be.
It’s not that I think Ms. Keeler isn’t lovable; of course she is. She’s kind and smart and progressive (and gorgeous), and that all seems great. What I didn’t buy was Kirk — I didn’t think Kirk had the emotional ROOM to fall in love with anyone, no matter how wonderful.
While Kirk is stuck in the past, he’s frantically trying to keep history from unraveling. The entire future rides on Kirk’s and Spock’s shoulders, and everyone they have ever loved and all that they have ever known will cease to exist unless they can right things. Furthermore, Kirk is stuck in the past with a Vulcan. If the wrong person sees Spock without his cap — or if he cuts himself helping in the kitchen or even just barks his shin on something and bleeds green — they’ll take him away to question … or to dissect.
Kirk has lost his ship, his co-workers, his family, his world, and he’s in danger of losing the one person he’s brought with him. With all that on his mind, I don’t care how nice Edith Keeler is, it just seems as if his attention and his emotions would both be fully occupied elsewhere.
I realize that this is a minority point of view. :-) It wasn’t one that I held in my teens, but my middle-aged self has a different perspective. It’s still a good episode, even if one doesn’t believe in Kirk’s love for Edith, but it’s no longer grand tragedy, so it doesn’t quite achieve best-ever status.
I do love the Guardian of Forever, Spock’s trying to build a mnemonic memory circuit out of stone knives and bear skins, Kirk’s frantically coming up with an explanation of Spock’s ears for the police officer, and the heavy tension that comes from their having lost their entire world without knowing why. But I can’t quite buy the love story.
I absolutely do buy the love story, myself,, because of Edith’s amazing compassion, insight, perception, optimism, and decency, and I’m very nearly your age (53 here). But hey, that’s okay; we all have controversial opinions, and as such things go, ‘“The City on the Edge of Forever” is slightly less magnificent than it’s generally held to be because one of the 14 or so elements of the story is slightly less than perfect’ is not really that beyond the bounds of orthodoxy – I mean, you could totally hate the ep and think it sucks horribly, as someone out there surely does. :)
I guess there are enough Trek fans that just about any opinion can be found somewhere. :-)
When it comes to The City on the Edge of Forever, I was always amazed how they could depict such a strong and compelling story in just a 50 minutes running time. The emotional payoff at the end of this episode is more impactful than most 2 hour feature films.
“My friend is obviously Chinese. I see you’ve noticed the ears. They’re the result of an unfortunate accident he had as a child — he caught his head in a mechanical rice-picker . . .”
I wonder if they could get away with that today, or if it would be viewed as offensive toward Asians.
….don’t wonder. It definitely would be. Not by me, but…
Sorry; I know that things are more problematic these days, but in this particular case I don’t see why you’d make that assumption.
I think it would be viewed as unpleasantly stereotypical, at the very least, yes.
Why? Given the slanted eyebrows of the character Kirk just came up with the most reasonable explanation for his exotic appearance that he could on the fly, a concept that originated in Ellison’s original draft (where Spock finds himself on the receiving end of some considerable old-fashioned Earth prejudice). I’m really not seeing what the big deal is, here.
It’s not seeing Spock as Chinese; it’s the rice picker. I think that’s the part that would be seen as too stereotypical.
Ah, I see now, thanks. On that, you may be right. Ellison hated that scene, incidentally. I’m guessing that it might have been written by Gene Coon, it being his style of humor.
Ellison’s original draft handles, I think, the love story more effectively and realistically, even though Edith herself doesn’t appear until the end of the first act, so there’s even less time for the romance to develop. It’s just better-written, more sensitive (yet grounded), and adult.
That said, I still love the version that aired. But you make a good case as to why you don’t.
I haven’t read Ellison’s original, since I didn’t want to read about someone pushing drugs on the Enterprise. Your description, though, makes me regret that choice a bit.
Thanks for listening to an alternate point of view!
You might want to give IDW’s wonderful comic book adaptation of the Ellison script a try. Beautifully illustrated with tons of Easter Egg references both to the aired version and Ellison’s non-Trek body of work, I still think it’s the best thing with “Star Trek” in the title published in the last two decades. Get to the final issue and you can even savor the brilliance of my published letter praising the effort. :-)
Kirk is, in certain ways, a lost soul – someone whose drive has brought him starship command at a young age, but at the sacrifice of a family or long-lasting personal relationship. As he says in Generations, he was so obsessed with his career that ultimately he was left with nothing but an empty house. A small part of him wanted to settle down and have a simpler life, and I think that’s part of his attraction to Edith. Granted this is all head canon, but I do think it’s valid to some degree.
That’s an interesting perspective. I think perhaps Kirk was supposed to be more conflicted than Shatner actually portrayed him, since the TOS Writer’s Guide includes some stuff about that, but to my eyes, at least, Shatner showed us a Kirk who THRIVED on starship command and who would have been restless and unhappy in any other situation.
I, too, have always felt “City” is an overrated episode and the love story is far too contrived (though, basically any one-off guest star love affair in any show is contrived to me).
I guess I can sort of get why it’s popular…but it just doesn’t do it for me.
I’d never rank it in the top 10 and i’d never show this ep to a newbie (it’s not really star trek, just a sci-fi tale with trek characters slapped on).
So glad to hear that I’m not alone!
When I want to show someone what Star Trek is about, I show them “The Devil in the Dark.” To me, that’s a quintessentially Trekkian episode. Thank you, Gene Coon! :-)
Tastes sure differ. I love “The Devil in the Dark” myself, but Associate Producer Robert Justman considered it a miss, and never changed his mind.
Wow, that’s surprising! Justman was such a wonderful influence on TOS; I’m surprised he didn’t like TDinD.
-I like Sybok. Not so much the movie he’s in, but I like Lawrence Luckinbill as the character. And it was fun seeing a different sort of Vulcan.
-Despite being a fan of Ro and Kira, I never liked the Bajorans or their culture that much. Just seemed like one of those bland, beige alien cultures of the week from TNG that somehow got promoted to a series regular. Which I guess is what happened.
-I think Chain of Command is half a good episode. I love the stuff with Picard and the Cardassian, but the Riker and Jellico story is terribly contrived. I mean, it would make sense if this was early in the series and Riker was inexperienced, but this is the guy who saved Earth from the Borg. You’re telling me he can’t handle some grumpy Cardassians? And what does all of Jellico’s expertise amount to? He plants some mines and threatens to blow them up. Yeah, real subtle diplomacy there, buddy.
Although, now I think about it, the Picard side of that episode is pretty darn contrived too. All of a sudden he’s a top secret weapons expert and training as a commando? Uh huh.
I don’t think it is that Picard is an expert, it is just that the weapons technology is banned and thus Picard having studied the tech a long time ago is the “most experienced” in the technology…but yeah, it is just as contrived as any other episode where the hero ship is “the only ship in the quadrant”.
And a lot of TNG is contrived overall because the show isn’t much for character-driven stories (compared to, say, DS9), so sometimes to get an interesting storyline into the show’s format, they had to stretch a little. Could they have done better? Sure, but it’s not the worst.
Since the goal here is to have unpopular opinions, I’m going to say, no, it is THE WORST. ;-)
Maybe I’m too rough on Chain of Command. I still enjoy watching Jonathan Frakes and Ronny Cox yell at each other, haha.
Luckinbill at the time was quite outspoken about the pride he took in his performance as Sybok. And I tended to agree; I think he was definitely one of the better things about that movie.
I agree about Sybok – an interesting character somewhat sabotaged by the story he’s in. Luckinbill does a great job in a tough role.
I never thought about CoC that way, but you’re right, it kinda does belong in earlier season.
‘you are mad!’
‘am I? We’ll see…..’
Jellicoe showed us how a different kind of command would work on the enterprise, one with a captain preparing for war and knowing diplomacy doesn’t work with the cardassians
Well, diplomacy doesn’t work with the Borg either. So in that regard, Riker was qualified.
Or I could do it. I can threaten to blow up people! Give me the job! ;-)
I’m wondering now if the Starfleet of TNG is so enlightened and sophisticated they have to thaw out Jellico ala Demolition Man every time they need a hardass to deal with tough people.
What with the climate these days, I’d just like to clarify I’m really not a violent person who likes to go around threatening to blow up anyone. My point was that any schmoe could do that.
a starfleet with captains like maxwell and jellico in it was always prepping for a future conflict.
I’m a little disappointed that all the Trek after Final Frontier has gone out of its way never mentioning Sybok’s existence.
Same with V’ger.
Sure, those movies had plenty of issues, but the core concepts aren’t that bad.
I like this topic of unpopular opinions. Mine would be:
Outside of “Mirror, Mirror”, and “Crossover” all the Mirror Universe episodes are bad because they are too campy and don’t have anything to say about our main characters/the Prime Universe. “Into the Forest I Go”, and “Despite Yourself” start out promising, but go too dark and campy for that serialized storyline to be considered good. And Emperor Georgiou is just garbage (most of the time).
[Maybe not so unpopular] Star Trek Into Darkness is so bad it is unwatchable. For me, a die-hard Trek fan, I have only ever seen STID once (in theaters) and will not watch it again. I will rewatch all of TNG season 1, or TAS, or Star Trek V, but not STID.
Yeah, I thought the first half of Into Darkness was passable, but it falls apart for me when Khan makes his formal introduction. I didn’t even mind them using the character again. They just didn’t do anything interesting with him — save that brief few minutes when it looked like Kirk and Khan were going to be allies in this alternate universe. That would’ve at least been something new.
But nope, he was a villain again. Nasty, skull-crushing space nazi. Rawr.
Exactly (Re: Kirk and Khan)! I was squirming in my seat at that point in the theater, realizing that I might be witnessing a rare event – a Trek movie I actively disliked – when I thought, “wait, maybe they will turn this around and have Kirk realize that while Khan is bad he should in fact be an ally against the Admiral – that would be a good twist and appropriate based on the events presented since Khan really is just seeking to do right by his own people. He could do this and accept punishment for his past crimes and thus save his crew.” But nope, they stuck with bargain basement revenge/fighting/killing/mayhem (which unfortunately is too often the direction modern Trek seems to default to) and really flushed the rest of the story down the tubes.
Yep, and I remember thinking what if they do something really weird and ironic and make Khan the person who sacrifices himself for the Enterprise. Kirk learning from Khan’s example?! I mean, if you’re going to do an alternate take, make it, y’know, alternate.
I also love Star Trek Generations. When I was younger it was just cool to see the Enterprise-D on the big screen and the bigger budget effects (minus the criminal reuse of the BOP from the Undiscovered Country) but as I have gotten older the themes of time passing, torch passing and loss have hit home so much more. This film really signaled the end of TNG for me, even though they would continue for three more films and then somewhat on Picard, the show that I loved, that era was over. I can overlook the flaws in the film because of how much I actually enjoy the journey.
I am with you on all of these points except the end of TNG. For me Generations was a nice big-screen upgrade. It wasn’t the most exciting storyline ever, but it did it’s job well and was just nice to see the Ent-D and the crew on the big screen. I think First Contact is an awesome action movie and a good Trek movie and Insurrection is decent “standard episode of Trek” and those two are the true end of TNG (unless Picard can turn in it around in seasons 2+).
I haven’t had time to listen to the podcast yet, but I’m going to list my 5 unpopular opinions as well.
#1. I mostly enjoy the first two seasons of TNG. I never hated them like so many others but I knew they were mostly bad, especially season one. But on my grand rewatch of the entire franchise last year, I was hesitant to watch the early seasons again, but instead I had a lot of fun watching them. Yeah part of it is nostalgia I guess, but I just love the vibe of early TNG too even if I easily prefer the later seasons by a mile. But they are not so bad for me now and like more episodes than I realized.
#2. Always loved Move Along Home. People seem to put that in the ‘bad’ category of DS9 episodes but I always liked it the first time I saw it. It’s just fun and it was DS9’s first ‘trippy’ episode which are my favorite types of stories on Trek after time travel stories.
#3. Never had a big problem with Sybok either. Always liked him. I understand why it bothered others, mostly just being Spock’s sibling out of nowhere, but the character was really cool and just different. It’s sad they basically retconned him out of the franchise at this point. Maybe SNW will change that (not holding my breath though…at all).
#4. Never been a huge fan of Year of Hell. Going the opposite way of Move Along Home, I never understood why this episode is so popular for Voyager? I like the concept of it and rewatching it last year made me appreciate it a little more, especially all the stoic Janeway scenes. I don’t hate it, it just always felt over-rated and absolutely hated the reset button by the end. Yes, a very familiar Star Trek trope at this point but considering the ridiculous amount of times the timeline was altered, it just felt too easy for me. Others disagree, I know.
#5. Never had a big issue with Kirk’s death. I know people hated the ‘bridge on the captain’ ending, but I was always fine with it. To me, Kirk went out doing what he did best, kicking ass and putting his life on the line to save others. It could’ve been done better, agreed, but I’m fine with both his death and how he went out. And I’m still shocked that’s the one death in Star Trek that stuck lol. Even way back then, I assumed they would revive him on an episode of Voyager or one of the Kelvin movies but to my surprise it never happened. Probably to Shatner’s surprise as well. ;)
Thinking about it, I have more, but I did say five and this post is long enough! Really want to hear the podcast now.
Sybok made a lot of sense to me. If the Vulcans had arranged marriages then Sarek would have had to have been married before he met Spock’s mom.
To me (and apparently Brandon Braga too) “Year of Hell” was what Voyager was supposed to be all about. Lost, alone, struggling to survive. Braga wanted a full season for “Year”, but the Powers That Be nixed it. At least they allowed a nice two-parter, and the show succeeds despite the reset button which I am sure was the condition the Suits required to let the show happen at all.
If Voyager had only had less interference from upper management (akin to what DS9 experienced), one can imagine what cool, different, and impactful episodes the staff could have created.
not sure about that as braga seemed more interested in splashy high concept eps like ‘dark frontier’ than in proper character progression and serialised arcs.
You are not alone friend. Move Along Home is one of my fav DS9 eps.
Season 2 had it’s misses, but sometimes it’s necessary to reconcile.that S2 gave us the Borg, the Pakleds, Riker’s beard, and some solid episodes like Contagion and Peak Performance.
I know I’ll probably take flak for this, but my unpopular opinion is that from Next Gen onwards, the Klingons are appallingly written. All they do is bark manifestos and shout about honour and the glory of the empire. I wouldn’t include any of the film series Klingons in this, but TNG took an interesting set of antagonists from the original series and turned them into an irritating one-dimensional joke. And ruined the ship designs with them.
cos gene swapped their characteristics.
OS romulans were all about the honour of war, the OS klingons the sneaky ones.
Weren’t anywhere near as bad in the film series, but even Worf was an idiot 90% of the time.
Kayla: You could combine Masks and the Cerritos into one tattoo, maybe?
Anyway, I agree about season 2 being better than season 7 over all, but you can’t skip over Shades of Gray. That is on the level for Spock’s Brain for me. So, so bad!
I have several unpopular Trek opinions:
Elaan of Troius is a fantastic episode, and in my top 5 TOS! I don’t get the hate for it, I know it’s cliché and the bad guys wear placemats for armor, but love love love it. From Kirk pushing through Elaan’s mind-control tears because his first duty is to the Enterprise, to the Klingon-Enterprise battle, to Elaan changing her costumes a bunch, to Spock using her necklace dilithium crystals to save the ship, I love it! I just wish I could watch the scene that was cut.
Another unpopular Trek opinion: I’m not a huge fan of Star Trek IV. There are some things I like, like the very last scene “second star to the right, and straight on till morning.” But I cannot stand the fact that they make Uhura not able to speak Klingon for laughs. Also, why does McCoy, of everyone in the entire crew, help Spock with the torpedo? And why do Uhura and Spock continually use 20th-century slang and metaphors? Also, when did Checkov become such a bumbling moron? I just can’t with that movie. I liked V more.
My last unpopular Trek opinion (even though I got a bunch): while I love DS9 over-all, I did not like the Dominion War arc. And I felt the last ten episodes really dragged, especially the Dukat and Kai WInn stuff. But over all, it was a decent series finale. Just nowhere close the quality of “All Good Things…” In fact, “All Good Things…” is my favorite two hours of any Star Trek production.
I think everyone agrees that the Dukat/Kai Winn/Prophets storyline could have wrapped up better.
As for your mention of Star Trek IV, you are mixing elements of VI. “Second star to the right…” and Uhura not knowing Klingon are both from VI. As for the Uhura bit begin stupid, I think we can all agree, and it is strikingly similar to the stupidity of having Scotty bang his head on a bulkhead in V. Trek hasn’t always been great at humor.
I actually meant VI not IV. I mixed up my Roman numerals
Unpopular opinions – Data should have been scrapped in Encounter at Farpoint. He’s nothing more than the series deus ex machina plot device.
I’ve got no idea why Jadzia Dax is such a popular character. Not only is her character weak in the beginning, only really coming to her own in season 4 or 5, but she is played by a terrible actress. It boggles the mind why the trill stuff is liked so much, I always skip those episodes on a re-watch. And Terry Farell has zero chemistry with Michael Dorn, never bought that relationship.
My unpopular opinion, is that TNG is the worst of the series. The crew are bland, Geordi and Crusher, Worf. Unlikable, Riker and Picard. Data should be fired, out the torpedo tube for the safety of the Enterprise. Worf became a fleshed out chracter on Ds9
The D is hideous.
The bridge is poorly thought out. The Captain has to stand and turn around, to talk to people manning the rear panels, or they have to leave their posts.
The one guy, responsible for the offense and defenceman of the ship, has to stand?
I love the Enterprise-D but your criticisms of its bridge are spot-on. It kinda worked in Generations, but even then the aft stations were poorly positioned from the Captain’s perspective. Fans like to pick on spacious bridge designs, but they actually make sense from the big chair’s view.
Ok, here goes:
Unsure if really unpopular:
Kes was a great character with a ton of potential. She was just written poorly.
K’Ehleyr was a Federation Ambassador who was murdered by one of two “candidates” for Chancellor. There should have been larger repercussions for Duras.
Kira should have killed Dukat. The three of them should have gone to the fire caves. She kills Dukat after he pushes Sisko off the ledge. They never recover Sisko’s body.
TMP uniforms had potential and made more sense than the monster maroons (which make for a better dress uniform but were completely impractical for ship-board life/work).
Pulaski would have made a great CMO for DS9
Ezri would have made a fantastic Counselor for Voyager (with a different symbiont newly implanted).
We’re not watching events as they actually play out. Rather we’re watching a visual representation of the Captain’s Log. This explains every inconsistency as we’re viewing things as described in logs, allowing for perceptions and memories to alter things slightly (uniform variations, the transporter shimmer changes, “modern-ness” of 1701’s Bridge in different shows/films, etc).
I don’t have evidence, but I know I’m right:
In a very early episode of The Shuttle Pod, Kayla talked about the characters of Ro and Barclay being underutilized and if TNG were rebooted she speculated they’d be used more. The Trek gods heard her and created an entire show based on those two characters – enter Burnham and Tilly.
I loved this podcast which made for a very entertaining hour. Thanks all. Your suggestions to do season by season deep dives or top ten episodes from the various series is a great one. Please do, as your previous podcasts in this format have been really great. How about doing something like this for The Original Series, which from memory, you’ve yet to devote a whole podcast.
I’m currently doing a complete TOS re-watch and have just finished the 3rd season opener “Spock’s Brain”. Wow! It’s like someone has grabbed the wheel and headed over a cliff. The show looks and feels different, with costumes (material and cut) plus musical underscore adding to the sense of change; and not if a good way IMO.