“A Moral Star, Part 2”
Star Trek: Prodigy Season 1, Episode 10 – Debuted Thursday, February 3, 2022
Written by Kevin & Dan Hageman, Julie Benson, Shawna Benson, Lisa Schultz Boyd, Nikhil S. Jayaram, Diandra Pendleton-Thompson, Chad Quandt, and Aaron J. Waltke
Directed by Ben Hibon
SPOILER-FREE REVIEW
Even better than the excellent part 1, Prodigy wraps up its first 10-episode arc just as well as it began the series. Never forgetting the character journeys, the episode ramps up the action and finally answers some big questions as it introduces some surprising new ones.
WARNING: Spoilers below!
RECAP
“We’re all out of moments”
With the Diviner sure to show up anytime to retrieve his precious protodrive, the prodigies scramble to get Tars Lamora in order: Jankom and Rok try to fix the Rev-12’s engine, and Dal and Zero are on miner roundup duty. Their Starfleet universal translator is a big help, resulting in a wonderful “I’ve been holding in these thoughts and feelings for so long” moment between a pair of besotted prisoners, but the limited badge range is slowing down the effort. Things get even worse when the Watcher robots reactivate and one blows off Zero’s right arm as they try to help the Kitty Caitian. Me-ow! But Kitty’s manacle gives Dal an idea for how he can talk to the rest of the miners… he’d just better hurry up because the Protostar is back. Me-oh!
In the Rev-12 engine room, Rok is holding the door to keep the Watchers out, but Jankom’s percussive maintenance is coming up short on how to repair the damage. Good thing Rok spent that time-twisting episode learning some impressive technobabble; the pair trades places so she can fix the ship (with a little help from the protocore-infused Murf). Jankom is able to fight off the Watchers but he’s not quite a match for Drednok, who shows up in all his evil robot menace. When all hope seems lost, the “we now have a voice” miners of Tars Lamora show up, and they are tired of these mother ******* robots on this mother ******* ship! The Caitian leads the charge and this kitty has claws, beheading Drednok through sheer force of newly empowered numbers. Me-wow! But Dred had one last trick, giving Diviner beam-up coordinates to scoop the protocore right out of Murf. As the Protostar heads away, Captain Dal puts the assembly to work, launching the Rev-12 to pursue… and save Gwyn.
“You wanted to know the truth…”
On the Protostar, Corrupted Janeway was supposed to keep a lid on Gwyn, but the Diviner finds his progeny working a console to disable the shields so Dal and the gang can beam over. Turns out those upgrades Gwyn worked in on Part 1 included protecting Holo Janeway from being rewritten, so the whole Goth Janeway thing was a fake. “I only answer to Starfleet!” The Diviner attacks, but upgraded Janeway can also hit back now, using some Miyagi-Do defense to block his attacks, and then a bit of no mercy Cobra Kai to disable the villain’s suit, spilling critical life-sustaining fluid on the deck. Before Gwyn can drop the shields, a gasping Diviner implores his progeny, revealing their homeworld hasn’t been destroyed… yet. Turns out he was sent back in time to prevent that catastrophe. With her dad’s “Please Gwyndala, you will doom our people” guilt trip, she hesitates, and freezes a growingly exasperated Janeway so she can hear more.
The Diviner loads a holodeck simulation showing Gwyn a “flourishing” Solum “confident in our supremacy.” But hitting fast-forward reveals the Vau’N’Akat homeworld in ruins five decades after first contact and a civil war between isolationists and the Federation-friendly. The Diviner’s hatred is exposed: “Starfleet lit the fire and left us to burn.” Gwyn is skeptical, and after learning the big plan is to use the Protostar as a Trojan horse to spread a computer virus that will “wipe out all of Starfleet from existence,” she fights back… soon joined by Dal double-fisting a pair of phasers. Evil dad quickly dispatches both just in time for Zero to show up, and the former tormentor learns he won’t like Zero when they’re angry. Shedding the robot suit and exclaiming “It’s time I showed you who I truly am,” the Medusan reveals their insanity-inducing true form, reducing The Diviner into The Drooler. Dal channels his inner Indiana Jones, warning Gwyn not to look, but even just a reflection off his badge disables the girl into a “we can’t go” ball of mumbles.
Now Holo Janeway narrates a coda that sees Kitty and the miners off on their own adventures on the Rev-12, ironically banishing a babbling Diviner to Tars Lamora as the “sole Unwanted.” Gwyn recovers from her fleeting Zero exposure, but critically can’t remember the ticking Starfleet-destroying code bomb inside the ship. Unfortunately, now is the time they definitively decide to take the Protostar home. As they head off to the Federation, Janeway beams with pride over how her charges have grown to be stronger together, inspired by Starfleet ideals, with each “a prodigy in the making.” (We see what you did there.) But this episode isn’t over yet: There’s a bonus scene on the bridge of an unknown Starfleet ship with a Trill officer identifying a protowarp signature. Coffee cup in hand, Janeway–yes, the real Vice Admiral Kathryn BLEEP-ing Janeway–tells her crew, “It’s time we rescue our missing ship and get some answers.” Oh, hell ya. With an “I’m coming Chakotay,” they warp into action onboard the USS Dauntless. Wait, what ship? So many questions… and they will have to wait until the season returns later this year.
ANALYSIS
This is Star Trek
The second part of the mid-season finale was just as good if not better than the first, with many of the same strengths. Part 2 ramped up the action to a new level not yet seen in the series with excellent pacing; you never got lost in the flurry and the episode never forgot to serve the characters along the way. And moments like Zero’s fun reminder about being non-corporeal early on—setting up their powerful reveal later—show how the writers finely tuned this story, although the back half might have leaned too much into exposition and narration. Potentially better viewed together with part 1, this exceptional finale wraps up the first ten-episode arc just as powerfully as the series began with the two-part “Lost & Found” premiere.
Each character demonstrated the results of the journey they have been on, from Dal’s bravery to Rok’s ingenuity to Jankom’s Jankomness. This mid-season finale was a great time for Zero’s character to pivot, stripping away their aloofness along with their robot body to reveal their emotional connection to the crew along with their anger at the Diviner, with an exceptional performance by Angus Imrie. Ella Purnell shined, showing the genuine struggle as she wrestled with her family issues and newfound Starfleet ideals with some surprisingly touching scenes with her father, also giving the always-excellent John Noble something real to work with.
While Holo Janeway might have laid it a little thick as she guided us through the wrap-up of the episode, her assessment that these kids have become a crew filled with the true spirit of Starfleet was well-earned, and powerful inspiration for the target audience of those new to the franchise. These and other powerful moments were made even better through Nami Melumad’s score, which has evolved from Giacchino-inspired beats into the show’s unique themes. And the art, direction, and production design continue to be mind-blowing as the episode ran through what felt like a greatest hits of homages from The Empire Strikes Back to Lord of the Rings and beyond. But more than anything, this episode and series have grown to be worthy of the name Star Trek.
Back in time
After a (too) long wait, we finally got the data dump on the Diviner’s obsession over the Protostar. The backstory on Solum’s (future) destruction and civil war go a long way to helping us understand his actions and motivations. Unfortunately, the Terminator and Independence Day mix of a plan of going back in time with a computer virus was a tad clichéd. Trying to work out the timeline of how that fits with the Chakotay recording and flashback scenes from earlier in the season might just give you one of Janeway’s time-travel headaches; however, it seems clear putting all those pieces together remain to be worked out because this is a mid-season finale and not a season finale.
We do finally get some clarity on how the show fits into Star Trek future with the given Stardate of 61103.1, which puts this episode in early 2384. The introduction of real Janeway adds an interesting element as the show is getting close to the flashback events of Picard season one, where the Romulan refugee crisis happens in 2385. This isn’t a problem, but it will be interesting to see how the shows will coexist as Prodigy incorporates more Starfleet elements.
Of course, the introduction of Admiral Janeway was a thrill, but invites a whole slew of questions, not least of which is why she’s on a real USS Dauntless, almost an exact match for the fake USS Dauntless from Voyager’s “Hope and Fear.” Add to that how do those Starfleet uniforms sync up with others of this era, why the Prodigy kids weren’t wearing their new uniforms at the end, will The Diviner (and Drednok) be back, where (and when) is Chakotay, how are the miners going to run the Rev-12… and is Kitty the captain? These and more questions range from the tantalizing to the frustrating, but are likely only plaguing superfans, as new and younger viewers are taking this all in—if they are anything like my nephew David, they are only excited to finally meet “real Janeway” and can’t wait to see what happens next.
So long, for now
With this mid-season finale, Star Trek: Prodigy is only getting better, and it started off pretty well. Just as promised, the show has incrementally introduced more elements from the franchise, but never so much as to overwhelm new young audiences. The Hageman brothers and the writers, artists, and cast they have put together are to be commended for pulling off what may have seemed impossible: making a Star Trek show full of the lore and hope of the franchise, appealing to those who knew nothing about it… and to those who already love it. The only negative is that we have to wait until later this year for the show to return.
RANDOM THOUGHTS AND CANON CONNECTIONS
- Like part 1, the episode was directed by executive producer and creative lead Ben Hibon, with the entire season one writers’ room credited for the script.
- The miners who were excited to finally be able to express their mutual feelings were named Grjordslat and Trodo.
- One of the miners was a Lurian.
- In addition to Murf, Dee Bradley Baker voiced additional miners, including the two-headed one.
- Kitty is actually credited as “Caitian Child,” voiced by Rania Sharkawy.
- Kitty and the miners on the Rev-12 were given a Starfleet badge, presumably for its universal translator, but also perhaps to contact the USS Protostar in the future.
- The Trill officer on the Dauntless is named Ensign Asencia, voiced by Jameela Jamil.
- Seen (but not heard) was the Andorian First Officer Cmdr. Tysess and Tellarite Dr. Noum, who will be voiced by Daveed Diggs and Jason Alexander.
- The registry for the USS Dauntless was NCC-80816
More to come
Every Friday, the TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe. The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.
New episodes of Prodigy premiere on Thursdays on Paramount+ in the U.S. and on CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada, where it’s also available to stream on Crave. It is available on Paramount+ in Latin American, the Nordic Countries, and Australia. It will debut in 2022 in parts of Europe with the launch of the Paramouint+ Sky partnership.
Keep up with all the news and reviews from the new Star Trek Universe on TV at TrekMovie.com.
Does the Protostar’s corrupt message set off the synth riots at Utopia Planitia?
That was caused by Commodore Oh. She made the synths go violent so the Federation would ban/fear artificial life.
Thank you for clarifying! I forgot that, as PICARD was borderline pre-pandemic, which was eons ago.
Like they were some kind of programmable robots or something.
Or were they life forms enslaved by Picard to build his evacuation fleet. Which is it, I can’t remember?
You’re so right Anthony. This *is* Star Trek.
Here here!
Where where?
(Hear, hear) :)
All I can say is “Wow” …. This series is so good. Can’t wait for later this year for more episodes.
I will admit, I like Prodigy. Better than Discovery, Picard and Lower Decks.
You are not alone. But honestly the bar set by those other three was an awfully low one. However Prodigy cleared by a good distance.
It’s a huge cringe when some fans start pitting these new Star Trek shows against each other, as if it would be a good thing if every Trek show has the exact same tone without diversity. Prodigy, Discovery, Picard, and Lower Deck all have their fans.
Respect each other and don’t trash each others’ shows just because it’s not the same shows as the ones you like.
I disagree. I think it’s fine to express your opinion on art, as long as you don’t say other people are wrong for their opinions.
I do not like Discovery and Picard. I sort of like Lower Decks. But I absolutely love Prodigy. If your opinions differs, that’s fine. But I sill support your right to state it.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’ve never demanded people like the things I do. We are all expressing our opinions. It’s sad that there are people who cannot handle people who think differently than they do. That is the true lack of diversity.
PK K, I would argue that much of the debate in this thread is measuring the new Trek shows against equivalents in their niches.
That’s appropriate. I would say that the rankings people are giving are against that. The new live action series are only getting creative arts nominations and Emmys. In the current era, one can’t argue that it’s just the disrespect for sci-fi.
Prodigy is top tier in its niche. It’s likely to be the first Trek series to win a series Emmy since TAS did it in the 70s. That’s not because television for preteens is easier to make, but rather that the Hagemans are top creators and producers for this age group and have come out of the gate with their established quality.
Not that I particularly care, but you’re saying that there’s already Emmy “buzz” for this show? Really?
Im not sure I could say why, but it’s somewhat amusing that this discussion is taking place between the screen handles ML31, PK K, VZX, and TG47.
I think there’s room for criticism of the shows on these boards, though at the same time I think there are ways to do it respectfully (toward both the show makers and the show fans) and not.
*yawn*
If I had to rank them, I feel there is a huge gap between Disco and Picard on one side and Lower Decks on the other. With the latter being a high-quality, well written piece of love. Prodigy is different than Lower Decks but just as good.
But then all of the shows have their strengths, with Picard probably getting consistent in Season 2.
Fair enough. I’m not a fan of LDX. It’s supposed to be an “adult comedy” and it fails on both counts.
Picard S2 improvement remains to be seen. Although looking at what we have seen so far I’m not so sure it will be. From my perspective it felt more positive going into the first season than this one.
I have enjoyed the show, but still kind of cringe when I hear people say this is the “truest” Trek right now, or worse, the “Best” Trek right now.
Hey, it’s a fine show, i’m watching and enjoy it… it feels Trekky enough, and it’s surprisingly well written for show aimed at pre-teens… but it’s still a show written for pre-teens. It’s got just enough to keep me coming back, but it’s still not at all what i’m looking for in a really good Star Trek series, but let’s be real.
Enjoy it for what it is, but cut the hyperbole, please.
PS: no Trek show on right now has proven perfect, or even what I want out of a Trek series. But so far, on the whole, Picard is a better Star Trek series, big fat warts and all.
“but it’s still a show written for pre-teens.”
People said the same thing about animated shows in that other Star franchise, and the Star Wars franchise is now practically running on storylines that begain in cartoons written for pre-teens (yes even the Mandalorian)
I would honestly consider Prodigy similar to at least the TV DC animated universe (like Justice League/JLU) in terms of a show that’s “technically” marketed towards older children / pre-teens but the writing not treating the audience as children and can be enjoyed by all ages.
There is an old interview with Mark Hamill from 1977 or 1978 saying how Star Wars is for kids and the young at heart.
Some of us really do think the show is great, and the fact it’s aimed at younger viewers doesn’t change that (why would it)? I’d honestly rate all three of Trek’s animated series, this one included, above all the live-action ones except the first three (TOS, TNG, DS9).
I admittedly haven’t seen much of Prodigy or Lower Decks beyond the pilots you can watch for free on YouTube, and wasn’t much impressed tbh. (That said, I’ve subsequently seen some Lower Decks clips that definitely hinted at much better stuff to come.) But I have watched TAS in its entirety, and with the exception of D.C. Fontana’s wonderful “Yesteryear” can’t say its quality equals even the most disappointing of the live action Trek series. But to each, his own.
Well, I would offer certain caveats and qualifiers with that. It’s certainly true the production side of TAS is positively impoverished by contemporary standards, with the same endlessly recycled animation and stock music. But that’s typical of animated TV of the era. I watch the show and make certain allowances for the circumstances under which it was made, and as someone who remembers what a lot of Saturday morning cartoons of the ‘70s were like, I can appreciate just how much the show accomplished given the limitations under which it was made.
Moreover, in terms of the actual stories and scripts, it’s really not that far off from TOS at all. It does have some stuff that doesn’t age well, as one would expect of the second-oldest show in the franchise – the central premise of “Mudd’s Passion” being a prime example – but it also has some pretty heady classic SF concepts that would be at home on a TNG or whatever, and I think the show frequently rises above its circumstances.
But I should also clarify that the ranking I referred to was my personal ranking by preference, not exactly how good I think it is, which might differ a bit (though I’d still put it ahead of at least some of the live-action shows).
Completely agree with this. I didn’t like the end of the Picard season, or some of the gratuitous darkness (the dead kid, the torture scene, etc.), but it had great performances and rarely-before-seen-in-Trek emotional maturity. And I loved how the Romulans finally got some depth (of *course* a species with telepathic abilities will — absent Vulcan logicism — opt for either total transparency or extreme obscurity) and all the 19th century German literature references thrown in there, e.g. “Coppelius Station” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman_(short_story)) — thanks I’m sure to Chabon.
“ Moreover, in terms of the actual stories and scripts, it’s really not that far off from TOS at all.”
Well, we’ll definitely have to agree to disagree on that one. Even compared with the much-maligned third season of TOS I find the animated series to be pretty thin gruel at best. There’s just no way you can reasonably compare an hour-long dramatic prime time series to a half-hour cartoon aimed at least in part at children. That’s not a criticism of the animation, btw, which was crude by today’s standards but still serviceable. It’s just an acknowledgment that you can’t cram an hour’s worth of character and plot into a half hour without something having to give, and with TAS that was the rich characterizations that had defined TOS. On TAS, the characters existed mostly to drive the plots.
That said, there were a fair number of decent episodes produced, and it was certainly gratifying at the time to see any new Trek at all, even in another medium. You’re entirely correct that compared to most Saturday morning television the show was a real achievement which thoroughly deserved the Emmy it won for Best Children’s Series.
You sound like a gramps saying, “hey kids, get off my lawn!” LOL
Your opinion, fair enough.
I sort of cringe when I hear people saying that Picard is a good show, and especially in relation to a review about the consistently well-produced and written Prodigy.
Let’s be real; Picard was not great, and it wasn’t even good. We’ve all seen Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Mad Men, Fleabag, Succession etc etc…or at least we’ve seen some of those top tier shows from this golden era of TV storytelling. You literally cannot escape great storytelling on TV these days. And having been treated to this top quality has meant that we have, or should have, developed an understanding of what makes a character arc satisfying, or a plot-point with a surprising or earned pay-off, or indeed a meaningful, moving or upsetting piece of dialogue that makes you think about life. I think what Picard achieved is beyond disappointing and incredibly frustrating. Have we all just forgotten about the incestuous Romulan siblings that were evil so they were also incestuous because, you know, they’re evil?! The lazy dialogue that used modern day colloquialisms and curse words?! Raffi’s drug addiction that was so poorly handled and ultimately irrelevant to the greater story or indeed to any commentary on addiction?! The ninja nuns?! Elnor’s lack of character, never mind lack of character development?! The ultimate irrelevance (again) of the Borg appearing in the storyline besides fan-service because the Borg sell?! The unnecessary gore and violence? The fact that they turned 7 of 9 into a murderous space vigilante in a move that makes no sense whatsoever to who that character was, where she was going at the end of VOY in terms of her human development, and more importantly where she came from?
The rose coloured glasses are well and truly on.
I think the creators of Prodigy have a tough task on their hands. They essentially have to make two shows in one. On one hand they have to educate young children on morals and values, as well as introduce them to classic Star Trek tropes and ideas in a digestible way. Then they also have to create a show that appeases the older Trek fans who will be watching out and ready to pounce. All the while they must tell an entertaining and unique yarn that can entertain both of those audiences. They have to traverse the animation age ghetto by playing to both young and old, whereas the other shows do have defined target audiences. I think they have done such a consistently fantastic job so early and should be commended for doing so. And think saying something like “Enjoy it for what it is” belittles that achievement and ignores episodes like “Time Amok” that tell a story as complex and emotionally mature as any Trek episode, live action or not.
It’s really easy to dismiss animation in the west in terms of artistic merit, and that’s very sad indeed.
Kudos to the Prodigy team for creating a great show for all.
“We’ve all seen Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Mad Men, Fleabag, Succession etc etc…or at least we’ve seen some of those top tier shows from this golden era of TV storytelling.”
To each his own, but I can’t stand any of those overated (in my opinion) shows. Replace those with The Wire, Game of Thrones, The Expanse, Law and Order, The Crown and Battlestar Galactica, and then we can have this conversation.
I mentioned a selection of “prestige” TV shows in response to RockstarED’s OG comment only to highlight my point that at this stage, after years of consuming excellent television, we as an audience should have higher standards because of what we know can be achieved in terms of great writing. Whereas Picard failed in the storytelling and writing department because of inconsistent quality, underdeveloped characters, plot holes and unsatisfying and confusing pay-offs, I think Prodigy has done a really commendable job, so far, of telling a consistently entertaining and well-structured story with emphasis on both developing the characters and broader storyline at the same time.
My point was that I believe that we all have have developed a quality gauge because of being treated to great storytelling and that we cannot call Picard the better show because of it… although your comment and selection of shows makes me now believe otherwise. Maybe we don’t all possess this quality gauge.
I was not asking for anyone to just name their favourite shows. The fact that you included Law and Order, a formulaic procedural drama – that is 100% ok entertainment – but that has never been excellent, shows that you did not understand what I was saying in the first place. If Law and Order is your idea of the pinnacle of storytelling then I’m not surprised you can’t find fault with Picard.
Also, if you’re going to appoint yourself the gatekeeper of the conversation, at least try to understand it first.
“Maybe we don’t all possess this quality gauge.”
Oh, man. Condescension, much?
Yea, and he cherry picked one single show of a number of shows I mentioned to used his condescension card. BTW, he’d be really surprised to learn that Star Trek is a formulaic series…LOL
Some of the best series of all time happen to be formulaic, including Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9), Gunsmoke, Columbo, The Rockford Files, The Twilight Zone, Seinfeld, and yes, Law and Order..my opinion.
‘trek’ tv has a habit of needing to bed in over seasons before reaching their peak.
only OS hit the ground running.
From my perspective putting Picard up alongside those top-tier shows (and what happened to The Wire or Deadwood, btw?) is a fairly meaningless exercise when weighing its value — at least, so far — as part of the Trek franchise. Because the plain truth is, as drama and art, the franchise in general can’t hold a candle to any of them. Exceptions like “The City on the Edge of Forever,” “The Inner Light,” and “The Visitor” are quite rare on the whole, and universally cherished because of it. Even some other genre series like Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, and The Expanse have a better track record as quality dramas in spite of their own flaws, and yet are still inferior overall to the shows you cite. Speaking only for myself, the love for Trek encompasses more than just its value as storytelling: mostly in its optimism, born of a time when it really seemed like another world was possible, when all problems were solvable with teamwork and sacrifice, and Martin Luther King’s moral arc of the universe felt real and tangible. Awesome TV as they are, there’s nothing in Breaking Bad or Succession to give you any of that.
I wasn’t putting Picard alongside those shows in any comparative way. I was, again, using those as examples of what can be achieved by modern TV shows, regardless of genre. i.e. the level of storytelling has been elevated to such an extent that we as an audience now have higher standards because of it. And that was to also say that bad, shoddy and lazy storytelling shouldn’t be tolerated or accepted, never mind celebrated, because there really is zero excuse for it in these times of Prestige TV. That was my point.
My mind is actually blown by people who have watched Picard who can go; “Ok, that was good”. It is blown even more by people who would defend it. Now, off course the show does have some merits; I think that the creative departments (costume, make-up, special effects, art department, sound design, lighting, camerawork, stunts etc.) are always phenomenal on the live action shows and really do bring the only real element of top-tier quality to the productions, be it PIC or DISC.
So yes, I do agree with you when you say “as drama and art, the franchise in general can’t hold a candle to any of them”, but I cannot be the only one wondering; “why not?”, and being frustrated by the stories that we are getting. The package looks nice, but once you open up that box the contents are an utter mess.
I am truly thankful for Prodigy simply because the are telling a consistently solid tale with good character progression as well as good story progression, simultaneously, – why can’t the live action shows do that? They have every resource at their disposal. Yes, Prodigy is not Breaking Bad, Prodigy is not The Wire, but it doesn’t need to be. And this is my point; Prodigy is a show that is telling a good story, consistently to a high standard, and building an engaging world of its own and that’s why it is successful and should be celebrated. So far, the package looks nice and when you look inside everything is still intact and makes sense.
While I too am a fan of Trek mostly because of the positive take it has on the future, I’m not sure why you mentioned optimism when talking about Picard. That fundamental element of Trek was mostly absent from that show and I argue that it’s probably the most pessimistic, gloomy vision of the future we’ve gotten from any Star Trek so far. It’s all fine and well citing Martin Luther King’s moral arc of the universe and a time where anything really seemed possible when discussing Treks virtues, but there’s nothing in Star Trek Picard to give you any of that.
But Prodigy has that.
Heh. You say your intent was not to compare “Picard” to those top-tier shows. . . and then you proceed, yet again, to compare “Picard” to those top-tier shows. So be it.
Having stated elsewhere on this thread that I’d watched the “Prodigy” pilot on YouTube and had not (aside from the production design and color palette) been all that impressed, a fan assured me in response that while the show feels more STAR WARS than Trek in the early going (probably in an attempt to lure in younger viewers), it settles into something more measured and substantial after a couple of episodes. Fair enough, and very possibly true given the reviews of the individual shows I’ve read here.
But, here’s the thing: whether you would agree that the series has improved or believe that it’s been awesome right out of the gate, I would never question your taste by saying I was “gobsmacked” that you liked it, in any case. Back in 2009, J.J. Abrams’ Trek reboot had come out to mostly glowing reviews, including on this very site. I’d say about 90-95% of the posters here agreed. For my part, I loathed just about each-and-every-moment of it, and still do. (My own private title for the film, “Top Gun on the Far Side of the Stratosphere,” should clue you in as to why.) But I never once openly questioned anyone’s taste for liking it, or even the talents of Roberto Orci (who for a time frequently posted here) for writing it. I was content to state — admittedly, at great length — the reasons for my own dissatisfaction with the work, and leave it at that. (Though my interactions with Orci did take a turn for the worse after he accused the late Roger Ebert of being high on his cancer meds after giving his film a negative review. Yikes.)
In fact, my favorite fellow poster here in those days was a wonderfully articulate fellow whom I thought did a great job defending the movie, even though I ultimately couldn’t agree with his reasoning. I even once expressed to him my real regret that HE hadn’t written the thing. (Poor guy: INTO DARKNESS wound up breaking his heart, and he disappeared not long after.) But I wouldn’t have the audacity to question such a person’s taste in Trek movies, even for a moment, just because they differed from mine.
Again, this isn’t about “Picard,” which in the end disappointed me to such an extent that I dropped my All Access membership, which is why this lifelong fan hasn’t seen anything of “Lower Decks” or “Prodigy” beyond the pilots, or “Discovery” (which has also delivered its own disappointments) after season two. It’s about asserting that anyone who happens to like something you don’t must be lacking a “quality filter,” which is just by Kahless pure arrogance.
As to why Trek as a whole can’t deliver storytelling at the level of TV’s best dramas, that’s a discussion worthy of an entire thread of its own, and I suspect that many of the possible answers have as much to do with the limitations of the format (and genre fare in general) as the talents of the people involved. And that’s really okay, to be honest. I frankly don’t expect any series derived from a late-Sixties TV space opera to equal the best of modern television on a consistent basis any more than I’d hope a Trek movie could measure up to CITIZEN KANE or THE GODFATHER. But that doesn’t mean I’m okay with mediocrity; after fifty years of being a fan, my hope for Trek is that could be consistently entertaining and thought-provoking while remaining true to its core values, with (hopefully) occasional forays into greatness. YMMV, of course, and that’s fine — but please, leave the “my-taste-is-obviously-better-than-yours” sanctimony in the airlock.
Very well said. I honestly don’t feel Prodigy as “written for pre-teens”, maybe some things are a bit more naïve than we were used to, but it certainly is enjoyable, dare I say many people who despise NuTrek like it, myself included. This is the only present Trek show where I am honestly invested in the story and wonder what will happen next. And yeah, “Time Amok” was a true gem.
I fear to ask “if this is for preteens, then who was Picard written for” (given all the cringe aspects of it that you listed above)
Prodigy>Lower Decks>Picard>Discovery, IMHO. The animated side of Star Trek is killing it. Live action needs some work.
Discovery should have been set post-TNG era. Never made sense in the pre-TOS era.
There are a lot of “should haves” for Star Trek Discovery. When they set the show is one of many.
I know I already replied to this post, but I only just now noticed the postscript where you say “Picard is a better Star Trek series” (than Prodigy). I’ve got to say if that‘s what makes you cringe when people talk about how good Prodigy is, you’ll just have to cringe a lot. I not only sincerely think Prodigy is the better show of the two, I sincerely think it’s better by a huge margin; it’s not even close.
What a fantastic episode and what a fantastic show! Watching Prodigy brings back so many fond memories of the golden era of Trek in the 90s. Watching Discovery, by contrast, I just feel like I’m going through the motions. Not only from a story perspective but from the whole look and feel of the universe. It’s kind of ironic that the animated shows, which are trying to attract new viewers to Star Trek, honor the visual continuity of what came before (including the exactly perfect future combadge) while the live action shows appear set in a different universe (even though all are Prime). I know Prodigy is a kid show, but I feel like a kid again because it resembles both the look and feel of the Star Trek I grew up with! Maybe that’s why it has become my favorite new Trek!
Do we *really* need to lift Prodigy up by tearing down the other Star Trek series currently on the air? All I see is “Prodigy is so good in comparison to Discovery / Picard / Lower Decks”. It’s completely unnecessary to bash the other shows when discussing this one. Especially as some of the comments I’ve seen border on gatekeeping what is and isn’t Trek.
Well, the simple fact of the matter is the the other current Trek shows provide the easiest (and most, um, logical) point of comparison. So long as the comments aren’t unnecessarily vituperative — and on that score, YMMV — there really shouldn’t be a problem, so long as no one is gatekeeping. Opinions differ, IDIC, it’s only rock-and-roll, etc. :-)
But some people here seem to go out of their way to trash the other shows in threads that are ostensibly about Prodigy. In fact some posters barely speak on WHY they like the show and instead devote their energy to disparaging the other shows, the cast of them and the production teams.
Well, they are entitled to their opinion, so long as they don’t abuse other posters with differing ones. I was plenty hard on Trek 2009 in these forums back in the day, and very much in the minority then, though I did try to keep my posts civil and substantive. Best to just skip over those whose views you’ve learned not to respect, and move on. At the end of the day, this is just entertainment, and not all that important.
Exactly!
I get people don’t like hearing criticisms of other shows and movies they love, but that’s how it works. I really love Lower Decks, but I get why others hate it. I also like (but not love) the Kelvin movies, but some people treat them like they are a cancer at times. Again I GET why and I even agree with some of it, but I still like them just the same. Same with Enterprise, DS9, etc, etc. I love those too but some others don’t and they have valid reasons not to for them.
People will just have their views on things. Yeah some go too far and the newer shows are definitely getting slammed the most for sure. But being on Trekmovie for over a decade now, I actually think the last year hasn’t been that bad lol. Believe it or not, it feels like most posters are more positive than negative lately. Just my feeling though. Compared to what it was like when STID came out to the first season of Discovery, it feels a lot more balanced today.
But these boards were a complete mess during most of the Kelvin films run IMO, although the 2009 movie had a lot of goodwill in the beginning anyway.
There are two things that Prodigy gets consistently right that the others, particularly Picard and Discovery, have struggled with.
It may be that older viewers and fans are more sensitive to and likely to be critical of failings on these points.
1) Coherence
Coherent plotting, coherent character development and arcs, coherent portrayal of the universe.
Discovery and Picard had clear launch challenges. These are established facts shared publicly by the principals.
We also know that both shows were writing the later episodes while the first ones were shot. For a serial show, this can be really damaging.
There’s only so much going back and reshooting for earlier episodes that’s feasible and filming optional scenes and sorting out what to keep during editing in post is not helping.
The discipline of animation doesn’t permit the same flexibility in writing as they go that live-action does. It’s pretty evident that both Prodigy and Lower Decks have benefited from this.
2). Attention to canon consistency in spirit as much as in the details
The shows are all in the Prime Universe. Other franchises put shows in different continuities to avoid constraints on their creatives.
As much as the new shows need to find their own audiences and creative voices, Prodigy is arguably the best at doing that while paying attention to its experts in the writers room and consultants who can advise on what are important canon continuity points to respect and where the flexibility exists.
I find it interesting that many of the writers in the Prodigy room have no personal history with Trek, but have been able to very creatively define a new canvas for Trek stories.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Prodigy has done an amazing feat in that it keeps to the spirt of Star Trek the most out of all the new shows AND has great canon consistency.
Now to be fair about the second argument, it has stayed consistent the most because they are back in the Delta quadrant and they have been able to ignore all the big stuff we see on shows like (early) Discovery and Picard. The location has basically just let them do their own thing for the most part and not so focus on Federation issues, just like Voyager basically got to avoid. But I understand what you mean in terms of how it all plays in to the bigger universe. It really feels like it could’ve been made in the 90s with the other shows but still feels a bit different.
I just like that it can be something different but yet still the same. All I hear from fans is that they want ‘different’ types of Star Trek. They get tired of the same formulaic stuff they accused the Berman shows of being and then the Kelvin movies turned into. But then if you go TOO different, then you still lose them, which, ironically happened with Discovery and a small extent, Picard. But I also think if the shows were just better written, people would’ve accepted them more. People still want to love Picard, it just has to improve mostly.
Prodigy and Lower Decks ARE different, but yet both still maintains the spirit of Star Trek, especially the Berman shows IMO. Prodigy is definitely a more mainstream Trek show than LDS, but its still nothing we really seen before either. It’s a bunch of alien kids whose never even been in Starfleet or heard of the Federation learning it as they go. THAT is different. If it was a live action show and not categorized as a ‘kids show’, it would feel even more so.
And I also think, why people like Prodigy more is that it feels optimistic again. It has its ‘dark’ episodes but the kids feel like they are part of something great just by being on a Starfleet ship and learning from Janeway the values of the Federation; especially since it started from a dark place.
“I find it interesting that many of the writers in the Prodigy room have no personal history with Trek, but have been able to very creatively define a new canvas for Trek stories.”
I think that can be a plus sometimes. Nick Meyer came in and did WoK when he had no Trek background at all, for one example.
I don’t want to take away from what Nic Meyer did, but people also have to remember TWOK came out of a dozen other scripts by various writers who did know Star Trek well before he ever showed up. Yes he left his own imprint on it for sure, but he didn’t start from scratch either. He had a lot of input going in. He just had the freedom to add or subtract to that input how he wanted it.
These guys are basically building a new mythology. Of course they are doing that by leaning on the old mythology but it still isn’t easy with brand new characters and trying to satisfy both new and old fans.
The guys who made the Kelvin movies knows what that is like.
Excellent points. I think the acting, costumes, sets, music, and props on Discovery are all excellent; when I have problems with the show, it’s with the writing. And as you point out, it helps to have the entire story planned out BEFORE you start filming. Have a coherent story you want to tell; don’t just spin things along and hope you end up somewhere good!
Take note M1701 that some of us are really enjoying most of it! :)
I love Lower Decks as much as Prodigy. In fact, I can’t decide which one I love more. But I do think more people like Prodigy since it’s a more ‘traditional’ Star Trek show and you have characters like Janeway and Chakotay back, so I can see the bigger appeal for sure. But Lower Decks is just so fun and really gets what Star Trek is too.
I’m really enjoying Discovery this season too and I thought it would be the opposite going in. In fact I’ve liked every season better than the last. The problem with Discovery though is three seasons straight and it has never completely stuck to landing for me when the ‘big season mystery reveal’ comes along. I’m really hoping this time it’s not some bizarre left field twist that will give me yet another eye roll. But I think fourth season has felt like the most ‘Star Trek’ season to date and thankfully far from the BSG influence it had early on. And they are actually exploring in the 32nd century. Who knew that was possible on this show? ;)
As far as Picard, season one really disappointed me, but it started off great. I have big hopes for season 2 given how crazy that is looking with a season long time travel story and Q being back but yes like Discovery will still be cautiously optimistic.
But honestly I haven’t had this much fun with Star Trek since the 90s! If SNW manages to hit it out of the gate and Picard surprises us, this could be my favorite single year of Star Trek ever…but that’s a high bar.
I’m with you on most accounts, though I enjoyed Picard. I’ve been a Trek fan since the latter seasons of TNG—it’s funny that it seems every new series is met with a lot of derision. DS9 didn’t stay true to Gene’s vision, VOY was watered-down TNG that abandoned the Maquis plot; ENT messed with canon too much, etc. I mean the general internet consensus on each of them seemed to be that they were the ruination of Trek…yet many are now beloved. I didn’t like DS9 initially but on rewatch it became my favorite. Just seems to be a trend!
And guess what, I had problems with each and every one of those shows at the time too! DS9 for different reasons though. I never cared about ‘Gene’s vision’ and still don’t. But all the other things you brought up, I brought up….30 years ago lol (god I’m old). But you’re also right, in time, people just learn to love the shows regardless of their faults because I can say pretty much every show has more good qualities than bad. And I think surprisingly they have all aged fairly well which helps a lot. Obviously they must had to if we’re all still talking about them as if we just watched them a year ago for the first time with every age group from teens to the elderly and everyone inbetween.
Picard is new. It’s ten episodes old. I recognize that. It’s still my least favorite show at the moment. 25 years ago DS9 was my least favorite show. Now it’s my favorite by a huge mile and has been for two decades running. Maybe I will be saying that about Picard or Discovery in a few decades (if I’m not already dead ;)).
Because every show has potential. All the shows I had problems with from TNG to ENT eventually won me over and I hope all the new ones will too. It’s exactly why I root and support them even when I’m still not completely happy with them.
I think, even most people who love DS9 agree that it had a pretty rough first season. Very few would probably call it their favorite show based on that first season. People say that DS9’s first season still has some very good episodes in it but many people also like at least some episodes from Picard’s first season. And DS9 had twice as many episodes to find some good in it ;-)
Let’s hope that Picard will improve in its second season. Maybe more people will appreciate the show by the time it ends – or a few decades down the line …
Or maybe Picard will simply “drown” in the 20 different Star Trek shows we’ll probably have in 25 years ;-)
I’d just like to point out that I’m pretty sure I would feel just the same about Prodigy had the hologram been some new character and there was someone else besides a known character was the commander of the Protostar. One good test of how good the show is is would it play without any easter eggs? In Prodigy’s case, absolutely.
As would I. But if you read on social media and places like Reddit, I think bringing in a popular character convinced a lot of people to give it a chance at all since it was designated a ‘kids show’. I’m talking more casual fans obviously, not the hardcore obsessed like us who would probably still watch every episode if it only starred Murf roaming the Protostar corridors eating stuff every episode (but there at least need to be subtitles…I would only watch an episode once without them).
And I remember how big the excitement was on this board when it was announced Mulgrew was coming back as Janeway (although probably half of the cheering came from me alone ;)).
And that is a double edge sword. The tightrope to walk these days is a lot of these franchise fans want things the same but different. Personally I find that somewhat unfortunate. But one cannot deny the results. What was the popular (and I say “popular and not “best”) episode of Picard? The one with Riker and Troi. What do people love about Lower Decks? The call backs! What are many here loving in Prodigy? Not the main characters who are empathetic and interesting. But the return of Janeway and Chakotay. What are people talking about wanting? “I want to see some more legacy characters!” They do it because the producers don’t want to risk trying something new and unique. Even when they do try to go there they always bring the safety net of making a connection to a legacy character. Burnham’s connection to Spock. Picard taking refuse at Riker’s house. Janeway being the hologram on the Protostar. A million fangasms in Lower Decks. So of course we are going to get that. I’m not saying it’s impossible to be good with such tactics. Prodigy has shown that not to be the case. But I think it handcuffs the shows. Which is why I think Secret Hideout’s batting average has been anemic.
For the record, I get as much a charge out of those easter eggs as much as anyone else. Not gonna lie. But they don’t make bad shows better. At least as far as I’m concerned.
All of this is true. But let’s be honest, Paramount+ is trying to grab as many subscribers as it can. If you are a long time casual fan who is on the fence about giving over your $10 to yet another subscription service, what will most likely get you off the fence? A show about Michael Burnham, Dr. Agnes Jurati and Dal? Um…who? Or what if you include Mr. Spock, Captain Picard, Seven of Nine or Janeway along with those names. How better chances is getting that $10 if you were fans of any of these characters before?
For us, we’re going to watch no matter what. Yeah I get super excited when I hear Spock, Q or Seven is showing up. But if none of them ever showed up, I’m watching it anyway. But I don’t think it’s enough people like us to sustain something that will now go every week for a year. And they are all doing it.
Did you watch the last episode of Book of Boboa Fett? Just a revolving door of rock hard nostalgia every ten minutes in that episode. Last time I seen so much glee from appearances in one story was probably TFA itself. The fact the show is called Book of Boboa Fett already got the fans drooling. And when he’s done, Obi Wan is up next to against the dark side! But for our side, when Picard is done saving the future, Pike takes over galaxy saving duties for awhile. It’s all the same at this point lol.
It’s just the new world order. No Way Home made $1.6 billion because of all the Spidey’s showed up in one film. Do you think it would’ve gotten that without them?
We don’t disagree, but the competition is super high everywhere now and you have to feed the beast with your biggest hitters.
But one thing I will say about you is that you do seem genuinely wanting new Star Trek without all the nostalgia bait we’re getting. I notice you seem to not be a fan of any of it or at least not totally bought into it. But it’s probably more the minority overall.
And I also think Star Trek has been off the air for so long before Discovery started that fans are just excited to see these characters back they been watching in reruns for so long. When it was just the Kelvin movies, it wasn’t really the same thing. Nostalgic characters of course, but people wanted the original actors again from the classic shows. That’s where their childhoods came from. It will probably slow down, but my guess every new show will bring in someone from TNG, VOY, TOS, etc.
People are now craving to have Captain Archer and Enterprise back lol. Trek Culture on Youtube just made a 13 minute video why it should be brought back and 95% of the comments agreed. Remember the days when fans supposedly hated that show? I admit to pressing like on that video too. ;) There is just deep nostalgia everywhere now.
Well, that’s the irony — I personally found Enterprise to be emblematic of everything that went wrong with the franchise in the latter part of the Berman era: creatively spent and indifferently (if competently) produced; and mostly just dull and uninspired beyond belief. (There was also the issue, like Discovery, of it being a TOS prequel that really didn’t much look like a prequel.) Coto’s season was a tad better, and might have been a good template for the series if it had been followed from the beginning, but by then it was too little, to late, and at the end even the diehards were tuning out.
Say what you will about Picard and Discovery — at least they are rarely dull.
I totally totally get you about Enterprise. I felt the same way you did when it first came around in fact…for a very long time.
I wasn’t too thrilled it was a prequel but like Discovery still wanted to give it a chance. I got through the entire first season and never came back to the second. Enterprise was the only Star Trek show I just stopped watching. I had bigger issues with Discovery first season to tell you the truth, but I never thought to stop watching it. And I felt because a lot of Enterprise episodes were just boring frankly. Not ‘bad’ per se, just kind of there, certainly the early seasons.
But, I have to tell you, that’s all changed for me. Today, I just have a totally different outlook on that show. Maybe it’s because I’m comparing it to the newer shows and appreciate it more. I can certainly tell you the one thing I did take for granted at the time and it being pretty much an exploration show until the last season has made me really fall in love with it today; which is safe to say lacks a lot with Picard and Discovery (but DIS last two seasons are improving more on that).
And maybe it’s just age, but I really love the character driven stories more today. An episode like Shuttlepod One where it’s just Malcolm and Trip in a shuttle pod hoping to be rescued was one of the episodes that bored me to tears back in the day. Now, I LOVE that episode today. Just pure Star Trek in it’s story telling without crazy time travel; some evil alien trying to kill them, flashy lens flares, etc. But it’s very Star Trek. I watched it again last week in fact.
But I realized I knew how much I love Enterprise today because last year I did a grand rewatch of the entire franchise in chronological order. Every film and show including watching TAS for the first time in my life. Enterprise was the first show I started with and man I had a blast! Yeah there are definitely some HUGE stinkers, especially in the earlier seasons, but no more than most of the shows frankly. Just so much fun. That’s why I did it, to really see how much I liked all these shows and movies once I watched them as a whole which I haven’t done for most in over a decade.
And I have to disagree, I would watch Enterprise over Discovery and Picard in a heartbeat, because I do now. I watched Discovery first season and I can barely stomach it today. Again, the rewatch made that clear for me.
I would go one step farther and if I had to choose between a fifth season of Enterprise versus another season of Discovery or Picard, I would probably choose Enterprise. But only if Manny Coto came back, not if the current writers of the franchise wrote it. I would even choose it over another Kelvin movie.
But I’m pretty sure I am in a very tiny minority with that preference lol. And I definitely understand why you see it a completely different way. People who have issues with the show are VALID issues.
Same for Discovery, Voyager, Lower Decks, Picard and on and on. But end of the day, we will just have our personal preferences and what is an ‘issue’ for some isn’t for others. And they are just TV shows, either you like them or you don’t. But there was a time I felt the same way you did about the show.
Crazy coincidence, but I went on Reddit and someone made this great post about Enterprise and it’s exactly how I feel about it too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/smpa5d/star_trek_enterprise_is_the_most_human_star_trek/
It was the most ‘human’ out of all the shows and still is today. Again, at the time, I felt that for sure, I just didn’t appreciate it like I do today for some reason (and someone even mentioned Shuttlepod One!!).
But there is such a much bigger love for Enterprise now. And I do think its from people like me who didn’t like it the first time but came around to it on their second try years later (I didn’t watch seasons 2-4 for the first time until 2013, the year STID came out).
But I really think it’s the younger and newer fans who have taken to the show and don’t have the same baggage we fans did after watching 14 years of new Trek back in the 80s and 90s. I think by then, we just knew it all too well and Enterprise didn’t impress us for a lot of VALID reasons.
But time heals all wounds I guess and it’s getting a resurgence for sure. Again, it doesn’t mean everyone suddenly loves it, but it’s no doubt it’s much more loved today than it was 20 years ago and there must be a reason for that.
And I really hope Kurtzman and the others are paying attention.
For what it’s worth, I actually thought “Shuttlepod One” was a very solid (if not top-tier) episode when it first aired. As I mentioned elsewhere, all of the shows have had their moments.
Actually I forgot you’re a huge fan of Enterprise, so you’ll probably enjoy this video a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sziDIJQfPMo
But seriously, read the comments. What a difference 20 years makes.
How many times do you see such positivity for a Star Trek show on Youtube?? Alex Kurtzman watch this stuff like we do. It’s exactly why we have a Pike show now. This is the kind of stuff they are responding to. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if something from Enterprise came our way in a few years if not sooner. Star Trek fandom is a weird place sometimes.
We agree on the realities here. I understand it and I get that they come with it. I am not a fan of forcing the issue. To me, the Spock Burnham connection was completely forced. The Janeway hologram, not so much. In fact, that makes a bit of sense given the Delta Quad connection.
I have not seen the Boba Fett show. I have never thought much of the character so I’m not going to buy D+ to see more of him. I haven’t had D+ for over a year. So I have yet to see any of the Marvel shows either. I do not plan to re up until either The Mandalorian returns or the Obi Wan show is deep in its run. Both of those I would like to see. And while I have the service, only then will I check out the other stuff. The only franchise I would watch immediately when new stuff comes out is Star Trek.
To be fair, I did say I like the nostalgia as much as anyone else. But I am not CRAVING it. I would rather have a GOOD Trek show that has none of that than a bad or even mediocre show that has a lot of it. And that is the bottom line for me. Quality. If a show is good and can (I hate using this word this way but here it is) organically bring in the nostalgia for a bit, I find that to be merely icing on the cake. And if the show is good and brings in the call backs in a clunky way I can forgive them because overall the show is good. But if the show is bad and they do lots of call backs then it just feels like an attempt to hide the fact the show is bad. That may not really be the reason its done but it’s what it looks like to me as a viewer. And I probably am in the minority on that. It’s not the only pop culture opinion I’m in the minority on.
I do like Enterprise. I’m forced to admit it is partly because of my love of TOS as the best Trek ever made and I was always disappointed TNG was set far past the TOS time frame. I understand why GR did it. And I don’t disagree with the reason. I just wanted more in the TOS movie time frame and was never a fan of moving forward that far, even though I loved what DS9 did. (And still think it the best of the Berman shows even more so than Enterprise) So when Enterprise came along I was actually happy they went there. Even though at the time I felt they should have held off a year or two before the next show started. At the time I was a believer in “franchise fatigue” and I really felt like Trek needed a bit of a break. To this day I think if Enterprise was delayed a bit it would have lasted longer. But it is what it is. Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out later…
PS: I really want an NX-01 baseball hat!
“Sticking the landing” is vastly more important in a serialized drama than an episodic format. No one particularly cares that the first and second season finales of TOS are fairly mediocre episodes because those shows don’t meaningfully connect to any of the others. Next week or next year, it’s a whole new adventure. But when a series like “Discovery” or “Picard” spends an entire season building towards what you hope will be a meaningful, inventive, and surprising conclusion, failure inevitably taints everything that came before, no matter how well-done it was. Even series that were great for much of their run like “Lost,” “Game of Thrones,” Battlestar Galactica,” and now (sigh) “The Expanse” suffer considerably for botching their endgame.
Fully agree!
And probably why it was a better idea for SNW to be more standalone. Unless they just get better writers like people who wrote DS9 or ENT serialized story lines (assuming you liked them).
I’m hoping both DIS and PIC surprise me this year!
DS9 did reasonably well with its serialization, though I still consider its best episodes, on the whole, to be the stand-alones. (Yes, “In the Pale Moonlight” was an outstanding show, but it could have worked without the Dominion War arc that surrounded it, much of which was only fair.) You can read my thoughts on Enterprise a little up-thread if you care to. Suffice to say that like Ron Moore, I wasn’t much of a fan, though that show (like all of them) had its occasional moments.
I have to wonder if the decision of the current Trek producers and the studio to embrace the current TV fad of heavily serialized storytelling wasn’t in hindsight a mistake. It’s something the original Trek format never aspired to, after all.
I don’t disagree with the premise — but would you explain what you found so objectionable about “In Arcadia Ego”?
Oh, gosh — just about everything, with the exception of the final encounter between Picard and Data, which I thought was beautiful and sensitively written, exactly what I would have expected from Michael Chabon. The rest was so pro-forma and sloppy and anti-climactic that I canceled my All Access subscription on the spot, not wanting to think about Trek at all anymore in my disappointment. And with the exception of the Lower Decks and Prodigy pilots on YouTube, I have yet to watch any new Trek since then.
It’s been said over and over but this is the risk with season long story arcs. If that story doesn’t work, the ENTIRE SEASON doesn’t work. That said, I don’t think “sticking the landing” has been the problem with Star Trek Discovery or Picard. Star Trek Discovery’s problem is bad characters, bad plotting and bad writing. Picard’s problem was a lack of focus. It has no idea what it was. It tried to tackle perhaps 4 issues that could have been 10 episode arcs all on their own.
Well, opinions differ. I’ve had considerable issues with “Discovery” over its run, but don’t find it to be as poorly-plotted or badly written as you do (in fact I find much of the dialogue to be pretty serviceable). I’ll take watching it over “Enterprise” any day, though, which I gather you like but I find as dull as dishwater.
I do agree that “Picard” ultimately suffered greatly from a lack of focus, though I quite liked the first half of the season.
In fairness to The Expanse (and I do agree with your comment on it), the next series of novels moves towards the real end game of those characters, after a time jump.
I don’t blame the producers of “The Expanse” for the letdown that was the show’s final season. They did the best they could with the hand they were dealt, and the final product was certainly preferable to not finishing the story at all. But there was just no way to deliver a truly satisfying conclusion in a little more than half the running time of previous seasons. The one at fault was Jeff Bezos, who found the money to shoot Bill Shatner into LEO but for inexplicable reasons wouldn’t fully fund the final season of what had become one of the best SF series ever to appear on American television. What a shame.
When life gives you lemons and lemonade, don’t be afraid to point out the lemons.
Prodigy would have made a great live-action show
Agreed!
Wow, people seem to really be grooving on this thing. I’ll admit to having watched the “Prodigy” pilot on YouTube (after quitting what was CBS Access in the aftermath of “Picard’s” soul-crushing season finale), and not being all that impressed. Maybe I’ll give it a second look before deciding if I’ll re-up with Paramount + before the premiere of SNW in May.
As one reviewer elsewhere has noted, it definitely has a deliberate arc to intended to take kids familiar with SW into the wold of Trek.
The first few episodes have more of an SW vibe than anything that comes after.
The first several episodes are mostly set-up, so you really need to watch all ten episodes before evaluating it.
Agreed, the last few episodes, everything comes together. I wasn’t sure what I was going to think after the first two or three, but I really like this show.
As Tendi might say: I LOVE IT!!!!!
Great way to end the first half of season one. As the review pointed out, these guys are excellent writers and has really taken the best elements of Star Trek and distilled it to these great little stories week after week! I feel exactly the same way about Lower Decks. Who would’ve guessed out of all the creators out there, writers known for making animated adult and kid shows would have the pulse on Star Trek this much?
But as the review also stated, the reveal of the Diviner and his true objective has created a ton of questions and set up going forward. So he is the time traveler in this story and it sounds like he traveled from the mid-25th century to stop Starfleet from making first contact with his planet. So does that mean that the Protostar didn’t come from the future itself? But if so, why is Captain Chakotay wearing completely different uniforms and combadges from Admiral Janeway and her crew? Or maybe Janeway is the other time traveler in this scenario? She is wearing the Picard-designed combadge so maybe they come from a few years after the Romulus explosion? And none of it explains why the Protostar was being looked for in 2366 which would suggest it did travel back in time too. Did the Diviner steal it in the ‘present’ day but took it back farther in time to destroy Starfleet earlier but somehow lost it?? MY HEAD HURTS!!!!
Sooooo many questions???? And to think I thought this was going to be a really simple kids show for 7 year olds and it would be stories like learning how warp drive works or finding resources on a planet. Very basic Star Trek stuff the adults would be bored with by episode 5. So happy to be so wrong lol.
But yes the best moment was the final one, when we saw the REAL Janeway show up! And on the freakin U.S.S. Dauntless?? That was crazy. And I loved how they made the interior looked almost exactly like the original ship. I still don’t understand why there is a Dauntless at all since the original was seized by the Borg? But I guess Starfleet has cracked the slipstream drive technology on it after Voyager came home. And it could explain how other alpha quadrant species are now in the delta quadrant too. Finally I liked the whole fake out this show has done. We were lead to believe the new Starfleet characters would be part of Chakotay’s crew when they were really Admiral Janeways all along!
But I’m just loving it all! It’s great to see these types of stories being told again and to see iconic legacy characters still out there doing their thing 20+ years after we last saw them. Prodigy is making Star Trek great again and a return of the 90s vibe many of us have missed!
But it’s time to leave the 24th century for awhile and journey back to the 32nd next week to see our Discovery crew again in their own crazy mind twisting mess!
Great time to be a fan again! :)
Here’s the thing, though – she’s not wearing the Picard-era combadge, she’s wearing the “Alternate 25th century” combadge as seen in TNG:”All Good Things,” DS9:”The Visitor,” and VOY:”Endgame.” This creates a bit of a mystery.
The Alternate Future combadge has a pair of gold trapezoids behind a hollow silver delta, that extend upwards past the arrowhead.
The Picard-era combadge is similar, but the trapezoids are dark metallic grey and trimmed off so they stop flush at the top edge of the delta arrowhead.
Her ship’s uniform style is new, too. While it has the same dark shoulders with coloured main portion as classic TNG uniforms (2366 through 2373), it has the double-breasted flap and angled collar from the Alternate Future (circa 2404) including the placement of the Admiral’s rank pins, but minus the high-waisted pants and cross-chest piping. But that conflicts with the canon uniforms we’ve seen from both Lower Decks (2380) and Picard (2399)
These two items seem to be giveaways that something is up, temporally speaking. At no point in Trek history has that been shown to be a canon combadge, as noted, it only ever existed in alternate-timeline futures. The uniform is therefore probably an interim style from an alternate timeline period we haven’t seen, because it’s like a bridge between TNG colours and Alternate 25th Century structure. Call it Alternate Near Future?
I think the logic clues with the presence of the Dauntless are a further indication that this originates from an alternate near future:
There’s a very simple way to solve this: Someone has to ask Holo Janeway when the Protostar was actually built (is there not a dedication plaque on the bridge?), and try to sync with a Federation or similar time beacon (as seen in TNG:”Cause and Effect”) to determine the difference, if there’s some sort of chronoton particle variance yadda yadda…. :)
I just read the interview TM did with producer Aaron Waltke and he basically just confirmed everything you wrote, especially about the combadges and uniforms. So thank you, I appreciate that. And I don’t really follow the minutiae on some these things like minor differences in combadges, how so and so FTL drive works or how high the struts are on a starship. I would be completely lost to stuff like that if it wasn’t for message boards. So I always appreciate people like you pointing these things out to me.
And yes we could still be looking at an alternate future in some way although Waltke suggested in the interview they have a new Dauntless due to the Voyager crew downloading and scanning everything on the ship and just took it back with them to Earth. And I went and rewatched that episode today and yeah they were all over that puppy lol.
But Waltke also hinted the Protostar itself could still be from the future OR at least the original version the Diviner encountered before he went back in time himself.
Anything that deals with time travel or alternate timelines I’m there. And I think Prodigy is going to be a very twisty timeline story now.
Yup to your review Tiger2, although LDs is still not really my cup of tea, but that is okay. I am just happy there is so much Star Trek to watch. It truly is a great time to be Star Trek fan
Just a few observations to add:
Like you said, okay now time to switch back to the 32nd century to see what is going on in the wacky world of Discovery.
Yeah that’s totally OK. You gave LDS a fair shot, it’s just not for you. But here are these four other shows you may be able to stomach! ;D
Until I read your post, I did not think about First Contact (the episode) at all. But that’s a great point, they were afraid it would be too much for people and destroy their traditions while the one character (can’t remember her name) felt like their society was being held back too much and shouldn’t be coddled to what’s really out there. And I still love that episode because in the end they decided they weren’t ready and Picard did as promised and just left.
That’s why I love this show so much!
But we may be seeing the outcome of a full on FC and the Federation clearly misjudging a society as being ready enough. And it could be a lot deeper than that too. But I really love the direction this show is going in. Again, they constantly hit the pulse of the best elements of this show. And while we seen bad first contacts in the past, we never seen it beyond an episode.
And Janeway is definitely here to stay. Kate Mulgrew said last year she was already coming back for season 2. So they must have a huge story in place for our caffeine obsessed Admiral and probably Chakotay too.
And the producers said in the interview with Prodigy moving closer to the Picard’s timeline, we will see changes in the show to acknowledge it. I wouldn’t be shocked if we got crossover from the Picard and Lower Decks shows eventually too since they all relatively takes place in the same period when you include flash backs. Exciting times!
And now I want to watch First Contact again! That’s what is so fun about all these shows, because they constantly regress to past story lines and characters it motivates you to watch old episodes again. I already rewatched ‘Hope and Fear’ this morning. Still love it!
Haha a LDs crossover episode would be interesting indeed. CGI meets old school animation! It would be fun to see Mariner, Boimler, Tendee and Rutherford in CGI!!
So many, many questions about the weapon, Chakotay, the Protostar crew, etc. I also wonder if the show will eventually go back to Solum or warn Starfleet NOT to make first contact? If so, what happens to the timeline and will Daniels show up? Crazy and infinite possibilities.
Thanks for the episode name Hope and Fear. I too will check that out to see the old fake USS Dauntless! I always thought it was just some phoney starship made up by the vengeful alien, but it seems like the Dauntless was a real Starfleet ship afterall.
No worries.
There are some differences between the Dauntless we see in Voyager and this one, mostly with the nacelles. The interior looks almost the same on both ships, but it looks a bit smaller in Prodigy, at least with my eyes. I know there is going to be tons of comparisons when we see the ship fully in the second half.
But I didn’t think the story would be as compelling as it is. It’s so deep in mystery because we really don’t know the origins of the Protostar and how involved it is to everything. And is it from the future or not? I think it is from the present day but I see others are still questioning that.
And crazy Chakotay has now become the center to the entire show. I’m now starting to wonder if he was the one who made first contact with Solum in the near future and maybe another reason why the Diviner came from the future and took that ship specifically. I definitely see Starfleet being warned not to contact them, but there is probably a lot more going on too.
I just hope the show will come back by the summer!
Yes, the Dauntless as seen in VOY:”Hope and Fear” is quite different, particularly the rear of the main hull (doesn’t have that big hollowed-out arch with that heat sink or exhaust thingy). The Prodigy version looks a little closer to the original study model for Voyager – the rear half kind of resembling a flipped Excelsior.
The interview with the show creators does address some of the guesses I made, but now I’m coming to an interesting idea or two about the timeline.
bacta tankspecial chamber and later, to wear a special life-support suit.SO NOW:
I agree with your ideas.
Both the Protostar and the Dauntless could’ve just traveled back in time. Admiral Janeway doesn’t look that old so I don’t think it was decades or anything but just sometime before starfleet made first contact with Solum.
And they could be from an alternate reality since the producers confirmed the badge Janeway is wearing is exactly like what she wore in Endgame as well. That was obviously done to make people at least question it.
It’s fun to see them going so BIG for this show. Discovery and Picard we expected it to; especially since both shows, Picard definitely, were geared to hardcore and long time fans.
I thought this show was going to go a little slower being for a younger audience. But I’m happy they are going the trippy Star Trek tradition of temporal mechanics and (possibly) alternate timelines since that’s a huge part of the Star Trek mythos. And the kids should know that right away….especially before they start watching Voyager itself. ;)
Fantastic episode/finale. I wish the rest of the season wasn’t so far off on the release schedule.
This is why they should have stuck with their initial announcement to call this Season 1 and the remaining 10 eps, Season 2. They are nearly a year apart, so why make it look like you have this huge break between was is supposedly a singe season?
Makes no sense???
Actually when is the season continuing?
I recall the BSG redeaux had quite long breaks in the middle of seasons. If I recall one or two were something like 9-12 months long. So long that I thought it was the next season but they were calling it the same season. So I guess the definition of a season is whatever the show makers say it is.
Well, I just signed on to Paramount +, so it sounds like I came in at a perfect time to binge this.
First off, this episode was great. I like the twist of the Protostar carrying code that could destroy the Federation and keeps the audience wanting to see how that wraps up. The look that Gwen gave at the end makes me think her memory will come back, but obviously don’t know for sure. Second, just based on all the information out there on stardate calculations, I think the year is early 2365.
There’s an odd timeline glitch here. In episode 8, it starts with Janeway saying “Training officers log, Stardate 607125.6. If you extrapolate that out, the show is taking place sometime in 2930, NOT 2384. So either it was wrong in the past episode, or they just made a big mistake.
As has been noted in another article, the writer of the episode has said in interviews (and posted on social media) that the Janeway’s citing an incorrect stardate at the top of 8th episode was the first indication that the ship was being affected by the temporal anomaly.
One of the producers has stated on Twitter that the stardate back in episode 8 was intentional as a first indicator that something was going wrong with time in that episode.
The series’ first lines were about how the prisoners of Tars Lamora had been denied universal translators. This instantly sold me on the series, because I keep saying that Star Trek is about seemingly implacable foes learning to communicate in order to solve problems. It drove home the central problem of the series, or at least this first ten episodes of the series, how to bridge the gap in communication between people who had been captured and segregated through the abolition of such technology. So, it was nice to see their communication facilitated through the restoration of UT technology.
This episode draws an interesting parallel to what’s happening with Star Trek: Discovery this season. In both cases, destruction has been wrought on a world and in both cases and advocate for the Federation way of life desperately pleads against violence as a solution. In both cases, this plea comes at the midpoint of the season. With Discovery, this sets up a chase where Burnham and crew race to stop the strike against the creators of the DMA.
This show seems to understand how to put a season long arc together. It’s not the best episode of the first batch but it’s still good to watch. Not a huge fan of the short term memory loss trope. But hey… Overall the show has been above average to good. A few nit picks aren’t going to ruin that.
BTW… Am I the only one who sees a LOT of the KU in this show?
Yes! Thank you for mentioning the KU. The aesthetic of the Protostar and the “beaming-up” effect in particular all scream KU to me and it cannot just be a coincidence or design choice. The producers seem to be pretty meticulous in terms of getting everything right so it’s can’t just be a mistake.
I really do believe this is a Kelvin Universe story.
Yes. The Protostar aesthetics SCREAM KU to me. That brig was just like the one in STID. The warp effect is just like the KU films. It even leaves the weird warp drive “contrails” seen in the movies. And then there is the transporter effect. I don’t know… It’s almost like Kurtzman wants to put his stamp on it or something. I don’t know. But THAT is the thing I’d like to see explained. I really don’t care abut com badges and stardates.
Good point! I didn’t consider that it might just be a franchise-wide Kurtzman branding thing whereby he has made sure that all shows include a certain distinct aesthetic and consistent visual elements like the beaming effect etc., regardless of universe. I think maybe that could be it!
Another fantastic episode! The show reminds me a bit of Star Wars Rebels in that it is obviously catered for kids, but the story telling is more than sophisticated enough to also appeal to adults. I’m also surprised by the amount of Trek lore that has been sprinkled throughout the show, culminating in the fascinating inclusion of an actual Starfleet USS Dauntless. That’s definitely a detail a kid just getting into Star Trek wouldn’t notice at all, but for all of us hardcore Trekkies it’s a
The episode obviously answered a number of questions about the Diviner’s motivation, but there are still a ton of mysteries yet to resolved. Specifically, how did the Protostar become a Trojan horse? Who programmed it to become that? How did the Protostar get embedded in the crust of Tars Lamora. There is still a question of timelines, since it was made clear early on that the Diviner had been looking for the Protostar for (I think) 17 years. Was he sent too far back in time, and thus had to wait for the Protostar to be built? Did the Protostar, under the command of Chakotay, get thrown back in time? And of course, what happened to the original crew?!
All-in-all this was a truly excellent first-half of a season, and I can’t wait for it return later in the year! It’ll be very interesting to see where the story goes from here. Once the kids reach the Federation, will they become actual Starfleet cadets? Will the remain on the Protostar? There are just so many places this story can go!
Oops, apparently didn’t finish a sentence there “hat’s definitely a detail a kid just getting into Star Trek wouldn’t notice at all, but for all of us hardcore Trekkies it’s a DELIGHT”
I have not yet seen this episode so I probably should not comment.
But from reading the review, I can’t help thinking…. What if the writers plan future narratives that jump between PRODIGY, PICARD, and maybe even S31?
The comment in the review about “where or when Chakotay is” … that this is currently 1 year behind PICARD… that we are dealing with time travel (temporal Cold War and S31 items), all make me really really want to see a larger Star Trek cross-over event sooner rather than later. And I don’t care how they meld the animated and live action series. Cast the voice actors as their live action counterparts – I don’t care. Or animate the live action characters. Don’t care. The story is the key thing.
This is the awesome Trek “feels” that many of us have wanted for years. A lot of people – me included – were fairly noncommittal on PRODIGY when it launched, some really disliking Dal and how that character got on nerves. I’m happy to have been wrong. I don’t hear much of any hate for the show now. The writers have been doing their job well, quite clearly.
Quite well, indeed.
Thanks!
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Tarnwood
– USA (Georgia)
– Black male, 50
– 1st taste of Trek: TAS reruns on Saturday mornings (maybe 1977 or 1978 ish). Then TOS reruns. As a 5 or 6 year-old, I was utterly captivated by critical thinking and logic.
– Fav Trek: TOS philosophically but realistically I like certain key narratives from each series (I like parts more than the whole).
– Trek I want most: The West Wing version of Star Trek showing the politics and intrigue of the The Fed, Star Fleet, and Trek’s Galactic Senate.
My bad – 1 year behind the PICARD flashbacks.
Sorry.
The interview with the writer today showed that they had put Picard S1 flashbacks into consideration.
Given The Diviner comes from *spoiler* the 26th Century, which is also when the Sphere-Builders fought against the Federation. Their motives and solutions are remarkably similar and I wouldn’t be surprised that they are behind all of this.
Dal and Gwyn look remarkable similar to its voice actors, so live action seems like a possibility.
He traveled 50 years back in time, to the 2380s, so he would still be from the 25th century.
Now, THAT’S how you write Star Trek!!!
I love it that this show scattered bread crumbs through the first eight episodes, then gathered them up in this two-parter, put them all together, and made something wonderful out of it. We’ve known all along that Zero was a Medusan, but he’s been in that robot body for so long that I forgot that he could show himself to humanoids and drive them mad. Excellent use of the Medusan!
We all suspected that goth Janeway was just pretending, and indeed she was. Great job by Mulgrew.
Y’know, I’ve never actually liked Chakotay, and yet even so, I cried at the end when Admiral Janeway said, “I’m coming, Chakotay!” I practically want to cry right now, just thinking about it.
Whatever Kurtzman did when he hired this team, please have him do it for all the other teams, too! The people who make Prodigy clearly know exactly what they’re doing, whereas the folks who make Discovery and Picard seem to be trying hard but doing more flailing around than making anything this spot-on and focused.
“ Whatever Kurtzman did when he hired this team, please have him do it for all the other teams, too! The people who make Prodigy clearly know exactly what they’re doing, whereas the folks who make Discovery and Picard seem to be trying hard but doing more flailing around than making anything this spot-on and focused. “
******My thoughts exactly. ******
Well said.
Think about what Kurtzman’s executive team meetings are like. Prodigy and Lower Decks are likely getting better audience and fan reviews than the live action shows. That must give his team pause.
I think the best practices that TG47 mentioned early in the comments section will eventually flow down to the rest of Kurtzman’s productions. Good progress is good progress.
Thanks!
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Tarnwood
– USA (Georgia)
– Black male, 50
– 1st taste of Trek: TAS reruns on Saturday mornings (maybe 1977 or 1978 ish). Then TOS reruns. As a 5 or 6 year-old, I was utterly captivated by critical thinking and logic.
– Fav Trek: TOS philosophically but realistically I like certain key narratives from each series (I like parts more than the whole).
– Trek I want most: The West Wing version of Star Trek showing the politics and intrigue of the The Fed, Star Fleet, and Trek’s Galactic Senate.
Thanks!
I love it that your very young self was captivated by critical thinking and logic! I was, too, though I was twice that old when I first encountered Trek.
I’m older than you and saw TOS during the summer reruns of its third season, when I was eleven. I didn’t know at the time that the third season was supposed to be “bad” Star Trek; it was the first Star Trek I ever saw, and I loved it. While I like most of the subsequent Treks, TOS colonized my mind and heart long before any of the other series were even made, and it remains the touchstone for me.
Our current world is so acrimonious, and so many people are doing terrible things that what I want most from Star Trek is a group of people who get along well in spite of being different on the surface and who bend over backwards to do the right thing, no matter how much it costs them personally. I also like exploration and science fiction, but that moral center is the core for me.
“ … a group of people who get along well in spite of being different on the surface and who bend over backwards to do the right thing, no matter how much it costs… “
*****
In the USA, that used to be called being kind or friendly, or neighborly. I live in a super small town where this is the norm still. I am thankful for it.
The Trek morality plays were the thing for me as a kid. I was a super tiny 5 year old. On Saturday mornings I would sit on the floor about 4 feet from the TV with a bowl of cereal as big as my head and watch cartoons. Trek TAS was the last one before the live action westerns would come on. When networks finally pulled TAS, TOS started airing. That’s when my memory of the morality plays starts. I had never seen direct, in your face examples of … TOS delivered memorable lessons about consequences for actions that were relevant but housed sneakily within SciFi. As a kid I really tried hard to apply Spock quotes. Many lessons are still with me today.
FYI: I have put that personal demographic data on my posts now because I am curious to know the Demos of others posting here. There are people from the USA, Canada, Australia, Germany, the UK, Sweden… I think someone implied they were in Japan. Where is everyone posting from? Many of the people I have talked with in this site have said things that indicated their 1st exposure to Trek came 30 or 40 years ago. Would love to know how many 20 or 30-somethings are commenting on this site. It would be cool to quantify generational perceptions and preferences. And the range of people liking one show vs another for very specific reasons is mind blowing.
Thanks!
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Tarnwood
– USA (Georgia)
– Black male, 50
– 1st taste of Trek: TAS reruns on Saturday mornings (maybe 1977 or 1978 ish). Then TOS reruns. As a 5 or 6 year-old, I was utterly captivated by critical thinking and logic.
– Fav Trek: TOS philosophically but realistically I like certain key narratives from each series (I like parts more than the whole).
– Trek I want most: The West Wing version of Star Trek showing the politics and intrigue of the The Fed, Star Fleet, and Trek’s Galactic Senate.
I’d love to see a survey with the demographic data you want! The people who post are always a tiny minority of the people who read, but here you go: I live in the greater Boston area. I’m a white woman, 63 years old until next month. :-) I have time to post because I’m partly disabled and am ill much of the time.
I love the mental image of tiny you with his huge bowl of cereal. :-)
I especially love the message of “The Devil in the Dark,” which I’d say is “It doesn’t matter what you look like on the outside; if you’re sentient, then you’re a PERSON!” Even people who look like lumpy rocks. :-)
I’d like to prescribe a heavy dose of TOS to our weary world, as a partial cure for all the division and selfishness. And Spock gives me hope that we can overcome those divisions. If we can identify with a man with green blood and pointed ears, then someone from a different country or with differently shaped eyes or a different color of skin should be no stretch — they’re HUMAN, after all. :-)
Cory, without aggressive and selfless levels of love and forgiveness, there is no cure for the cancer of division and hate that is metastasizing so ominously.
We need to love each other. Without condition and selflessly. Can you correctly value the life and liberty of another person without loving that person? (Not speaking intimately.)
We also need to forgive people. Refusal to forgive opens the door to hatred and devaluing life.
Love and forgiveness require patience. They are choices that must be made and remade and remade every minute of the day. With truckloads of patience. It is hard.
Just reflecting on forgiveness. It is a choice. It is not a gift for the offending person. For the forgiver, it is freedom from the emotional cancer that comes with holding grudges. There is a Jesus story where a guy asks if he should forgive an irritating fool 7 times in a day. The guy thought forgiving a person 7 times in day was so generous. Jesus says nope – forgive him 70×7 times each day. Don’t be run over but forgive because it is release for you and it ensures your ability to love remains unblocked.
Time for Spock:
If the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one…. What the world needs now is love and forgiveness, and each individual needs to take the first step to be awesome to one person in her or his reach. Rinse and repeat 7 billion times a day.
Some of the writers and actors in the Berman era referred to Star Trek as offering unapologetic episodic morality plays that the audience was open to because they were sci-fi.
The Devil in the Dark definitely fell into that category for me as a riveted six year old seeing it in first run.
Trek can be fun, cerebral, adventurous and many other things, but it’s morality plays have shaped many of us.
Hi TG!
When Corylea mentioned Devil In The Dark, I revisited it. So, so good.
The one that has been on my mind for many months now, every time I see something in the news that highlights where a lie has become the truth, and the truth has been rewritten to be a lie… There are four lights!
Chain Of Command. The Picard side of it. That morality play is hyper relevant to me. I am a black man. My indoctrination is different from others. How others see me on first glance will often be through stereotyped lenses. Even so, will I bow to a false narrative? What will I do to defend what is abjectly true? Will I bow to censorship… cancelation… fear mongering…
On Star Trek (dot) com, there was an article written about that episode: “The Four Lights”, By SEBAS DE TOMA, December 14, 2021 5:00 AM PST. “For some fans, “Chain of Command” resonated in a real and terrifying way…”
I read that article recently and was shocked. People in Argentina saw that episode of TNG back in 1992, and what they saw reflected actual, real Argentine life where torture and prison camps were still being used.
So yes, yes, and more yes: a fictional morality play can be powerful enough to shape us. Or reshape us. Sorry to have gotten so very serious. It was not my intent. I actually wanted to equate TOS morality plays and their impacts on children to something I have long thought: The 1990’s cartoon “Recess” always seems to me to answer the question, “what would TOS be like if you cast it with 10 year olds, set it in the playground of a local elementary school, but kept the morality play focus?” Truly, that cartoon almost literally is TOS on a school playground.
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Corylea – not sure if you will see this but, here is a very early happy birthday greeting for you! Happy birthday!!! And please take my advice to take the entire month to celebrate your special day. I just did the exact same thing for my 50th. What a birthday-month it was!
– Live long and prosper
– Love long and…
– Love learning and…
– Laugh daily and…
– Forgive quickly and…
– Recall all of your many, many blessings, joys, and happinesses
– Spread the love and laughter to your loved ones and not-so-loved ones
– Prosper in your mind, spirit and body
– Be in great health even as your soul prospers
– Eat lots of fruits and veggies that over-index in key vitamins
– Take lots of vitamin C, D, Zinc
– Never give in to fear, but think on what is true, lovely, and of a good report
Thank you so much for sharing with me. I view you and TG as intellectual professors on this site. Always happy to learn from you. And I view Tiger 2 as the great and perpetually positive Star Trek cheerleader, defender, and glass-overflowing-with-goodness type. I really look forward to reading what you all have to say. You (plural) are the gift! Honestly, I wish the contributors on this site had our own forum where we could communicate with each other at-will. Anyway…
Stay well and be blessed!
For you, then:
Blondie-Wan
– USA – Georgia, like yourself! Just outside east Atlanta, in Stone Mountain.
– White male, 53
– First taste: ‘70s reruns of TOS. Began to discover more fully via the written episode adaptations by James Blish, and seeing the movies as they came out, starting with TMP.
– Fave: four-way tie between TOS, the TOS movies, TNG, and DS9.
– Trek I want most: honestly, your West Wing idea is fantastic.
Un-freaking-believable! You will see why in a sec.
So COOL Blondie-Wan! Seriously, thank you!
From about 6 years old, my childhood was lived in Stone Mountain. Yep, from the late 70s until 1989, when I moved to Athens for UGA.
The galaxy has a way of shrinking down to manageable sizes when you need it to.
BW – I really, really appreciate you sharing! Thank you!
We all take Trek seriously if we take the time to comment here. But when you can relate to the actual person behind the handle, it makes talking to folks even better. You take things a bit more seriously. You are a bit kinder & considerate. You don’t mind sharing a little deeper. I like that.
FYI:
1) Star Trek “THE WEST WING”… I have complained about the need for that for such a long time. Last September, TG47 and two other commenters gave me a list of Trek literature that hits my need for Trek-based political intrigue in some nice ways. Still working through it.
2) One of the coolest things I have seen in my years of watching Trek was the murder investigation within ST The Undiscovered Country. I can replay the parts and pieces of that investigation in my mind in a heart beat. I didn’t know it when I first saw the film, but that is when I wanted to see a Star Trek NCIS series. I would pay big money to see a series that is just Trek crime scene investigations (and the consequent application of galactic justice in ways that avoid war and keep the peace between species). Need :
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Tarnwood
– USA (Georgia)
– Black male, 50
– 1st taste of Trek: TAS reruns on Saturday mornings (maybe 1977 or 1978 ish). Then TOS reruns. As a 5 or 6 year-old, I was utterly captivated by critical thinking and logic.
– Fav Trek: TOS philosophically. Realistically I like parts from each series.
– Trek I want #1: ST The West Wing for the politics & intrigue of the The Fed, Star Fleet, and Trek’s Galactic Senate.
– Trek I want #2: Star Trek NCIS!!!!
Wow, our tiny planet, huh?
Though that said, I should note I haven’t lived here my whole life. In fact, I moved around a lot when I was a kid, as I was an Air Force brat and my dad got stationed somewhere new every so often. I think we were actually in the UK when I saw Star Trek for the first time!
I’ve lived in Stone Mountain since 2014, when my then-fiancée, now-wife got a new job in Atlanta that had us move. Prior to that, we’d lived in Tallahassee, FL (where we met).
I don’t know why I didn’t notice until now that A Moral Star is an anagram of Tars Lamora.
Or vice versa.
Prodigy, as a show, is demonstrating that the Federation offers a moral compass.
I suspect that A Moral Star was the endpoint they were writing towards, and decided to name the starting point with an anagram.
Love Kitty’s anime clawjob on Drednok.
Great show!
I’d prefered a uniform look for the 24th century shows. They all feel disconnected to me.
Yes, different standard uniforms appeared onscreen. But in 99% of these cases it was due to budget reasons rather than intentional.
I do LOVE the basic Prodigy story of the ragtag characters on the frontier learning about Starfleet and the Federation!!!!!
That being said the Voyager and time travel plots are nonsensical and junk, I don’t know why they have to dilute it with that BS (oh great, not only is their a magic mushroom drive, but they copied the fake Dauntless so there is another magical drive – oh, and why doesn’t the bad guy just go back in time to before this all happened and if it doesn’t work go back again and fix there mistake?). Ugh, lose the time travel nonsense. It isn’t fun outside of comedies, it just wrecks the story. It takes away from any STEM science they could have put in (oh look we need matter and anti-matter). Lose it, it does only fan er, adults (they aren’t kids anymore) favors and they aren’t your core audience. You ironically are dumbing down a smart kids show.
Focus on the kids learning about the final frontier and their place in it, both the characters and the audience.
I’m not a fan of the time travel stuff myself. Unless the Diviner accidentally found himself in this time then the plan was foolish. If he had control of time there were much MUCH better moments to go back to in order to accomplish his goal. But, I don’t think this is dumbing things down for the single digit audience. I think this plot would go way over most of their heads! I do not believe this show is aimed at children. Not after seeing the first 10 episodes.
I think the kids on the frontier escaping for a better life is smart entertainment for kids. It’s fun, action packed. I suppose one could say TAS wasn’t for kids because it was like a real TOS episode, but at the very least it was for adults and kids.
The time travel stuff plot though, it isn’t for kids or adults – it should go over everyone’s heads because it makes no sense and has no STEM basis. Let’s leave the time travel backwards for good comedy movies (I’m all cool with time travel forwards, just punch that ship to relativistic velocities, done).
Gwyn holding the flower that rapidly dies on the holodeck… What an amazing visual call back to Sarah April’s flower in TAS’s Counter-Clock Incident. The flowers are almost identical even!!
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Prodigy is amazing with the little things…