When Mary Wiseman’s Lt. Sylvia Tilly left the USS Discovery for a job at the new Starfleet Academy in the fourth episode of season four, it was promised she would be back. That promise was fulfilled in last week’s season finale, and Wiseman is talking about her return.
Tilly came back
In the season four finale “Coming Home,” Mary Wiseman returned as Lt. Tilly, now a Starfleet Academy leader working with cadets and Admiral Vance to coordinate the evacuation and defense of Earth on Federation HQ. In a Paramount+ featurette (which you can see below) about the making of the episode, Wiseman talks about how Tilly has changed:
Coming back for the finale was really exciting for me because she comes back in this fully black Starfleet suit. She’s changed. And to get to see that visually, that was a very gratifying moment for me to see, ‘Okay, somebody different showed up.’
Mary Wiseman as Tilly and Oded Fehr as Admiral Vance in “Coming Home”
While not getting specific about if or where we will see Tilly again, Wiseman also hinted the finale was not the end of her story:
Tilly is not somebody who lets people leave her life. And so she will be part of this universe and this world for many years to come. And the only family she has is on that ship.
In her interview with TrekMovie last week, Discovery co-showrunner Michelle Paradise echoed these sentiments:
We’ll never be done with Tilly. [laughs] Everybody loves Tilly. I can’t spoil anything into season five, except to say that we love Tilly. I expect that we’ll have her in the world and all of those things. She’s not going anywhere.
Sonequa Martin-Green as Burnham hugging Mary Wiseman as Tilly in “Coming Home”
Development for the fifth season of Discovery is well underway, with production expected to begin in June. It is not yet known what role, if any, Wiseman’s Tilly would have in the upcoming season, with possibilities ranging from guest or recurring character to becoming a series regular again.
It has also been speculated that Wiseman may be moving over to the proposed Starfleet Academy show openly discussed by Alex Kurtzman and Paramount+ execs but not yet officially ordered as a series. However, even if the Academy series moves forward, it likely wouldn’t go into production in 2022 or even 2023, leaving plenty of time for Tilly to appear in season five of Discovery.
Mary Off-Broadway
For now, Wiseman is busy starring in the new comedy play At the Wedding at the Lincoln Center Theater in New York. The show had its official opening on Monday, March 21st, and is currently set to run through April 24. For more info or tickets visit the Lincoln Center Theater site.
Han Van Sciver and Mary Wiseman in At the Wedding (Photo: Marc J. Franklin)
Watch Mary talk Tilly
Watch Wiseman and cast and crew talk about the season four finale
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“Everybody loves Tilly.”
That is definitely not a true statement. She’s one of the show’s most divisive characters.
Exactly. No character like her would ever have graduated Starfleet. Too nervous and anxious. Ive never liked Tilly. The character. Obviously I don’t know what M. Wiseman is like.
Probably some admiral’s cousin. That was always the theory I had for Barclay.
I echo your sentiments exactly, David. I can’t stand any sentence (especially related to DSC) which starts off with “Everybody loves…” It’s never true. I understand the actress is very well-respected and a nice person, but I couldn’t stand the Tilly character myself.
“Everybody loves” is an idiom, it should never be taken as a strict statement. And, in that sense, it is okay to be used as it was above. “Everybody loves ….”, meant literally, is never true. Not with DSC, not with ANYTHING. Mention one thing or person loved by EVERYBODY.
Yes, but Everybody Loves Raymond!
I think Mary Wiseman is a fantastic actress…………..the writing for Tilly is an abomination. She would have flushed out of SFA in her first year. And to be honest, her character has regressed significantly over the past few years.
Why do you think being nervous or anxious means that you can not graduate from the academy?
As someone with severe and sometimes crippling anxiety who’s managed to have a pretty successful high-pressure career, I question your assertion that she never would have “graduated Starfleet.”
Well said!
You clearly never served in a military environment. As an officer shes supposed to be leader. Shes supposed to set the example. Shes responsible for her subordinates and to lead by example. She cant control her weight. She doesnt inspire confidence. Thats not a leader. Some folks here like this nu trek because it lowered standards to make them feel better about themselves. Thats not good writing, its oandering fan fiction
Starfleet is not military. She strikes me as no different than Barkley. Not sure what her weight has to do with anything. Me thinks that your issue is not that fans of “nu trek” are pandered to to feel better about themselves. I think others that make such claims are having their own feel feels hurt or nostalgia rattled. And honestly…Kirk wouldn’t last a week in a “military environment”. Sisko on the other hand…😀
Is her awkwardness all that different from Ezri on DS9?
Paradise was most likely referring to the show’s production and creative teams. Regarding fans, tons of them love Tilly.
I love Tilly. But then again I’m not a troll.
I didn’t like Reed from Enterprise, does that make me a troll? Or are you only a troll if you criticize something about Discovery?
Not liking a character doesn’t make a person a troll, so I’m not even sure what that nonsensical comment was supposed to mean.
Disregard
Right? But the nu left that this show panders to cant accept any opinion that isnt in agreement with it so they try to immediately invalidate it. Typical. I gave this dumpster fire of far left propaganda 4 seasons.
Tons do, yes. That’s undeniable. And tons don’t.
Eh, only in some particular parts of the internet. In every real-life Trekkie community I’m a part of, as well as most online, she’s loved. It’s really just certain comments sections and Facebook garbage holes.
I like Tilly but she’s not my favourite character. I don’t love her the way I love Saru or Pike, or Janeway or Seven or Picard or Spock. There are characters you really cherish and others that are fun but ultimately nothing special. Tilly is a Harry Kim, Wesley Crusher, Travis Mayweather sort of character… at least for me.
“She’s loved”. So sayeth Scotty, the contrarian. When all evidence points to her character not being loved or even liked (the actress is fine; she’s been poorly handled by the writers (Michelle Paradise).
Tilly’s a fantastic character. So smart in the Starfleet tradition.
What ‘tradition’ do you speak of? Please back up your statement. Smart doesnt mean competent. Shes a badly conceived written and conceived character theyve desperately tried to bolster.
I really liked her in the first season. After they wrote her to be the most annoying person possible. Well … second most after Burnam …
she was fine in season 1 and 2….past 2 seasons they’ve rushed her character development…same with michael….the vulcan minded human became human real fast. each series has traditionally had someone that acts as a way to explore the inner humanity…ie spock, data, odo, doc/seven
Tilly’s anxiety got old real fast. She was annoying to me, and the crew gave her a lot of leeway. After the first two seasons of high pressure I thought I would have seen more growth. I’m glad we are finally seeing it.
“Fan favourite” is a bit of a stretch…..quite possibly the most irritating character in Trek history…
Stupid decision to bring her back. Just when it looks like the character has finally “grown” as a person and doing her own thing, comes right back.
Anyway, another Discovery-ism, amongst the many other weird decisions on this show.
Can Picard go round the sun once more and rescue Saru from Discovery? the only one worth saving..
As long as Wesley Crusher exists she will always be in a race for that title. But admittedly, it’s pretty close.
Funny enough, I have never had a problem with Wesley. The writing for him is trying in season 1, but from Samaritan Snare onwards I actually think he’s kinda endearing and has decent utility.
But Tilly and the nervous mess Adira has devolved into? I assume my feelings towards them are what Wesley-haters endure.
Personally I would put Barclay and Troi’s Mom in that group too, but not sure recurring characters belong with regulars in this race.
Barclay’s ticks do get really annoying. It was a novelty in his first story and they turned it on its head when he got zapped and made super-smart, but most of the time he’s very trying, especially when he gets thrown onto Voyager.
Lwaxana… sometimes I don’t mind her simply because she puts Picard and Odo on their back feet, but she was very OTT on shows that didn’t really have a lot of OTT characters, and there was little reason for her to keep appearing on DS9 beyond reverence towards Majel Barrett.
For me, generally speaking, when Barclay or Troi’s mom appeared it signaled a terrible episode in advance. Although the last TNG with Troi’s mom wasn’t terrible. So her appearances ended up not being 100% awful. But Barclay is just irritating as hell. His Voyager appearances were also horrid. I realize there are people who like his quirks. I would imagine those who liked Barclay probably include a large portion of those who like Tilly. I see them as similar.
Yes, I like both Barclay and Tilly. I do find their quirks annoying at times, but the most important reason I like them is because they’re honest, kind people with a good heart. So many jerks in this world, it’s good to see decent people.
Agreed. Barclay was another unrealistic character that never shouldve made it in to Starfleet.
As long as Harry Kim exists…
Harry wasn’t annoying … watching him was just … sad :-D
I’m glad for you that you didn’t find him annoying. I did, though.
Gotta side with Sascha here. Harry wasn’t annoying. They just didn’t do much with him. He was in the Travis Mayweather category. Neither were annoying. Just underused.
I’m glad for you that you didn’t find him annoying. I found him quite annoying, myself.
Why?
You’ve got to hand it to Harry Kim. Even though he is one of the worst characters in Trek, he was the main focus in arguably the best episode of Voyager: Timeless.
That’s the thought I had last season, when they had the perfect chance to wirte out Burnam (I believe it was Reunification III or the one after that) and they just didn’t follow through at the end. Theres even a scene where she pretty much turns to the camera and says that she’ll stay till the very end. From the next episode on season 3 – which was at least okay up to that point – started to completely fall apart.
“Just when it looks like the character has finally “grown” as a person and doing her own thing, comes right back.”
What do you mean? She isn’t back on Discovery. It’s very likely she’ll be on the Star Fleet Academy show if she continues as a regular/recurring character on a Trek show. The door is open, I suppose, if that show should fail for some reason, but I doubt they’ll just throw her back into the same role on the ship like nothing ever happened…
That is assuming the this Starfleet Academy show is set in the 32nd century. Which I think would be a tremendous mistake. My preference would be to set it post TUC but quite frankly any other established era would be fine.
Wait… I haven’t watched season 4, nor will I ever after the stupidity that was season 3… But now she’s a leader at the academy?! She only graduated from SA herself at the end of season 1. Promoting her to the first officer was stupid enough, but now she’s “leading” at the Academy?
She’s only competent because of her character shield, she’s mentally and emotionally immature, out of shape for the job she’s in and the role she wanted to perform, and would barely survive in a high school, let alone in any capacity at an actual Starfleet.
And now, with only three years under her belt in the field, only two of which were as a ranked officer, they think she’s somehow ready to train the next generation of recruits?! I know Gene Rodenberry never wanted Starfleet to be portrayed as a military outfit, but this has gone so far in the opposite direction that it’s being run like a pre-school participation awards ceremony.
It’s this kind of nonsense that ruins Discovery. Bad, character pandering types of writing, with over-emotional children in the roles of astronaut-scientist-soldiers. I’ve seen fan-fics with better characters than this.
Obligatory mention of the stupid turbolifts and how dumb they are.
“And now, with only three years under her belt in the field”
From future Starfleet’s POV, that’s 900 years! That’s the whole point why they wanted HER to teach at the newly formed Academy… They wanted someone with the original 23rd century optimism and enthusiasm… I share that notion a lot… And yeah, I’m glad Starfleet doesn’t work like actual military…
And no, S3 was not “stupidity”. It was EXACTLY what I needed while mourning my own mother. Su’Kal accidentally blowing up all warp ships… that’s another instance of Trek being intwined with my own life… So you offend S3 of DSC, you also sully the memory of my mum… and EVERY mother that ever died…
No, from Starfleet’s POV it’s 3 years. She hopped over those 900 years. The only thing she is qualified for at Starfleet Academy is as a 23rd century specialist. In fact, that’s all the Discovery crew is qualified as in the 32nd century.
My condolences to you, for your mum. I’m relieved to say I have no idea how that feels, and it’s something I can’t even stomach thinking about, frankly. I’m sorry you’ve had to experience that and I strongly urge you to take what comfort you can from whatever source you can, regardless of how other people feel about that source.
To be clear, my opinion on a show has no bearing on how it helped you at a terrible time in your life. I’m sorry if the idea of someone not like Discovery upsets you, but it’s unreasonable to expect people to change their minds for that reason.
If you can’t deal with the idea of conflicting opinions then I really don’t think you should be online at the moment. There are a number of places you can receive professional help and I strongly recommend you seek that help. Since you said ‘mum’ I’m going to assume you’re in the UK, and I can personally confirm that you can get some great help, including face to face therapy, through the NHS, for free.
Not everyone is going to agree with you in life but to accuse others of sullying the memories of people they didn’t know existed until you replied to their posts may provoke far more negative responses. I don’t think you’re ready for that kind of interaction, online, or anywhere else. No one can be expected to sugarcoat reality for you, and your attitude to people who don’t is very indicative that you need someone to help you with that. For your own good, please seek help.
Goodbye
“out of shape for the job she’s in and the role she wanted to perform”
Sigh.
Sigh all you like, but that’s not going to magically make physics and biology work differently.
I agree 100%. But I did not watch DIS S4 either. This is not a good show and not a good Star Trek Show too. No one of my Trekkie friends, growing up with TNG watch this anymore
Tilly is the most human member of the crew. Therefore, I love her.
I agree! Tilly’s journey has helped me over the last few years. I love how Disco has put the human back into the human experience.
The increasingly repeated notion that Discovery has saved the Trek franchise with “emotion” and “humanity” is dubious revisionist history. Roddenberry’s imprint on Next Gen made the characters not flawed enough for some tastes, granted, but Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise have countless examples of human foibles and emotions– sure, not to the degree as Discovery, with its “ship full of Barclays” as one commenter put it, rhetorically. But one could argue a “ship full of Barclays” is not the most convincing portrait of humanity. There is also the issue that a crew needing constant therapy sessions while regularly saving the galaxy is not an easy narrative trick to pull off. A rare, successful example of this is James Gunn’s Guardians otG and Suicide Squad, in which a similar premise is treated comedically yet with a touch of sincerity, so as not to devolve into outright farce.
Thank you for your counter opinion. I have considered it and rejected it.
I don’t see a repeated notion that DISCO saved Trek by heavily incorporating emotion into their characters. In fact, at least on this website, I often see the contrary. And it’s funny that you bring up needing constant therapy as a bad thing when a ton of real life people see a therapist on a regular basis. Plus, TNG literally had a therapist as part of the bridge crew.
You can absolutely argue that DISCO incorporates too much emotion with their characters (something I agree with to an extent), but I do appreciate how much more “real” these characters feel compared to past characters (especially in the early seasons of TNG).
I look at Disco as adding a new flavor to the existing universe. I let go of my preconceptions about what star trek is. I never felt that what has come before should define the franchise in the future.
Tilly is not a perfect officer. I keep reading she shouldn’t be in Starfleet because she is socially and emotionally immature. Yet, she is. I keep reading that no character like hers should not be in starfleet, yet she is. Against all odds, she’s in Starfleet and thriving. She is full of self doubt, guilt, and anxiety, yet she doesn’t quit. She gets up in the morning and lives with a purpose, helping her crewmates, and ready to make the ultimate sacrifice if necessary. She let go in S4 of her parents expectations and embraced a new purpose. Like a lot of people, she pivoted and found herself in a new role as teacher. She is relatable and human and wonderful.
KevinB: “I let go of my preconceptions about what star trek is.”
Yes! And over the last couple of years, so have I. I’m still not fond of the gory, violent Klingon business of the first couple of seasons, but I slowly began to see DISCO anew. (Hey, I’m likely one of the oldest people here, and it’s too easy/lazy to remain stuck in the 1960s and ’70s!)Granted, I think the special effects, space battles, bizarre technology and explosions are the proverbial tail wagging the dog, but that’s always been the case, and is increasingly expected in these post-Star Wars, high tech decades. But it’s the elephant we have in the room, these days. Sad but true, yet we always opt to genuflect in the direction of the elephant.
As long as the stories remain laser-focused on the *people* their *relationships* and the *emotions* generated therein, instead of ships, gadgets, and effects, we’ll be fine.
Just IMHO, because “to each his (or her, or their) own!” The ’60s/’70s are gone.
There are still things that bother me about the new trek too. Icheb’s torture on Picard was horrible and the eating ganglia in S1, yikes!
Every Thursday night I yell “Black Alert” to let everyone know I’m watching Star Trek. And I just let the writers take me on a journey. Take me to the stars and tell me a story. Sure, it’s not perfect, we all have a nitpick here and there, but as long as it has a message, it revolves around people, and some cool science stuff, it’s trek to me.
KevinB: Oh, I agree with you, in the sense that nothing is perfect and there are flaws and issues here and there. But my initial “annoyed” response to DISCO in particular, well, I’ve let go of that in the past two years, as life is too short to get all worked-up angry over personal quibbles with a tv show. I’ve re-learned through life experiences how to stop and smell the roses again you might say, among other things.
As you put it: “I love how Disco has put the human back into the human experience.” And I agree wholeheartedly. And another way to look at it: at least it’s not another hour of tv taken by a reality show, right? lol ;)
I even got a t-shirt that says DISCO on it, which prompts inquiries about my musical tastes of past decades when I was a twenty-something, lol.
Right! In fact this is Discovery’s success is showing human emotion as another frontier to cross because it is in fact the major component in value choices and decisions that are an unrecognized part of strategic and political decisions as per our many current political divides in US. We need to examine our highest ideals and allegiances to reveal our preconceived notions, shallow knee-jerk reactions, and find the truth about our choices.
Andrew: Great, perceptive, thoughtful post! I like the way you think!
And I felt that was ridiculous. The ship’s shrink should not be a Command level position and in fact would make sense to be on the CMO’s staff. Only showing up for briefings when that specialty was needed for that particular situation.
Ridiculous or not, it has been well established in Trek canon that starships have counselors/therapists, and they are often used by the crew. Such use is more overt in DISCO, but it is by no means out of the ordinary.
You misunderstood. I wasn’t complaining there were therapists on board. It makes sense there would be and that they be a part of the medical team. My point was… Why does the ship’s therapist have a bridge station? Why is that a command level position? Why does the therapist appear to outrank the CMO? None of those thinks make a lick of sense.
The reason why Troi was on the bridge all the time…was that she was a betazoid. Yes, she was a therapist that say patients in her office – but her betazoid abilities aided Picard. That was why she was never in uniform the first few seasons. Correct me if I am wrong, but did she not have to take a command course at some point?
I don’t believe any of the other series had a therapist on the bridge. Unless you want to count Ezri Dax – she was a therapist but I don’t believe she heald a high ranking command position.
Except that would imply that her being there was the exception rather than the rule. But was it not made pretty clear that Counselors had become a regular thing on command crews in the TNG era?
And to be honest, she never really helped him out all that much. Most of what she did was convey the amazingly obvious like offering such useful insights such as, “He’s concealing something but I don’t know what.” And her abilities were never fully defined. Her empathic abilities work via viewscreens? Was that really a Betazoid characteristic or was she just reading faces and gestures? Sometimes it worked over amazing distances other times not. They seemed to only be limited by what that particular script called for that week.
From what I’ve read, having her on the bridge because of her betazed abilities was what Roddenberry had in mind. And it was mentioned in one of the episodes of the first season, I don’t remember which…would have to research, that councilors on Galaxy class ships due to the fact that families were on the ship and it was meant for longer than 5 year missions. That is why you never saw councelors on any other class ship. The doctor was usually the therapist. I mean, there could have been but it was never seen or talked about. The Enterprise D was the only place we “saw” a councelor. And with Troi being a betazoid, that’s why she was on the bridge.
I just don’t remember if it was something I read years ago or if it was in an interview with Gene. Makes sense. Although they didn’t really use secondary characters well…they still don’t.
Other ships having counselors in the TNG era was mentioned. But it would seem to me that it might ought to be standard practice to have a Betazed on the bridge on all starships if those stills were so needed. But my point was that she rarely conveyed anything useful or something that was not already obvious to all. And no one in their right mind would play poker with her.
I am a therapist in real life, and even *I* think it was crazy that they had a therapist on the bridge. :-)
What, you mean you don’t follow your patients around at work, giving suggestions? :P (I know the whole thing of having a *ship’s* councilor is inherently different from what real therapists do on dry land, but yeah it’s super weird…
Oh, I think it’s fine they had a counselor on the SHIP; I just think it’s weird they had her on the BRIDGE. Given all the trouble the crew got into, I’m sure they needed one on the ship.
This was to reveal the true intents and emotions of the players in each plot, which highlights the role they play in momentous choices in high-stake situations. Troi made explicit the evil intent lies we tell each other and ourselves to gain selfish material and political advantage.
advantage
One reason why I think people gravitated towards Trip the most on Enterprise was that the combination of writing and performances created one of the most believable humans in Star Trek this side of Dr. McCoy and Chief O’Brien. That’s a refreshing thing for Berman Era Star Trek, when characters tend to be more reserved and the dialogue is highly stylized and precise.
That said, the stolid approach to characterization has its benefits as well – when an emotional outburst happens it can be devastating (see: Picard’s breakdowns in the likes of Family, Chain of Command, First Contact), but it also allows for subtler moments to have outsized impacts (Odo asking Garak to breakfast, Seven revealing her favorite color, Picard’s 1/4 smiles when no one is looking, Spock’s eyebrow etc), which is also quite true to life. When a show blankets the airwaves with hugs and confessionals and cheering it tends to make any subtler moments stand out far less, but this is also not a subtle show to begin with. I would not say it isn’t a valid creative decision to try this approach, especially in an age where we are emphasizing the need for self-care, it’s just not to my taste. In large part that is down to getting set in my ways with this franchise, so I have to temper my critiques with that knowledge.
KevinB: Thank you, and well-said!
Tilly is the product of lazy writing and a lazy showrunner. Where did all the good writers go??
Somewhere in the bowels of Secret Hideout, they invented a computer program that can cobble together scripts that fit various parameters. The only “writers” they need are people who can polish it up enough so that you can’t tell it’s machine-written. My suspicion is they farm this out to sweatshops somewhere in Asia.
Ok, SH didn’t invent this. I think the CW has been using something like this for years. It explains why each scene is half-redundant and half-contradictory with the others within the same episode.
The Expanse.
Yes, The Expanse. Loved that show, so did my wife.
“Everybody loves Tilly.” Except the writers of course. They basically wrote her off the show! That finale appearance was basically a cameo.
The moment they decided to incorporate a new character with basically the same characteristics (a young, socially awkward, but very smart ensign) they ruined Tilly. Why did they do that? It feels the only reason was to have a non-binary character, which after a few episodes ended up fading into the background with the rest of the furniture anyway…
There are a lot of people in the comments hating, but in a franchise that includes Neelix, Wesley Crusher, Naomi Wildman, Kes, and Lwaxana Troi, Tilly is frankly nowhere near as annoying as those other characters.
It’s very possible Mary Wiseman wanted off the show, or needed a bit of a break. I highly doubt the writer’s decided to just write her off for the hell of it (especially given how much everyone in the cast and crew love her).
Wiseman had other things to do. The writers may love the character, but they also appreciate that the actor is a real person who might want variety in their career.
Also, quite likely they’re pointing her towards a bigger role in their upcoming Academy show, when she does want the work of tv again.
I never thought of Adira as being all that similar, but I see your point. But don’t those characteristics fit better on a younger character, while the older one grows up and changes? I don’t think Tilly is ruined. (But then she has always reminded me, her looks and bubbliness, of my cousin who just so happens to be a wonderful teacher. So when Tilly became a teacher I was like, freaky coincidence but perfect!)
It always cracks me up when people say that they hate Tilly.
She is perhaps, the most human character on the show.
Socially awkward and disorganised?
She’s a product of poor writing, constantly ditzy and trying to be the “light relief” to the point where it’s eye rolling
Agree. She brings so much heart to the show. I guess some people would rather the “perfect people” of TNG than anyone that mirrors back anything they don’t want to see in themselves.
I’m sure nearly everyone of the crew of TNG had issues and problems. In fact most of their fears and phobias were explored in various episodes.
I keep hearing the word “heart”…thats the poorest excuse yet.
Would a woman watching this aspire to be a Tilly or aspire to be a Dax, Kira or Janeway?
I’m sure many may NOT be a Janeway but could at least look at her and say that’s what I aspire to be.
Whereas Tilly is an “oh she’s just like me and validates all my insecurities so it’s ok to be as I am”
Heaven forefend women feel good about themselves! They should all try for the standards of randos on the internet like you…
Tilly accepts herself but she rises to challenges, leads in a crisis, is there for her friends but still explores what she wants for *herself*, and mentors others to help them grow! Rather than shaming them or acting like there are only a few kinds of women worth aspiring to be. Why wouldn’t someone want to be more like that?
Do I want to be Barclay or Harry Kim? No probably not. Do I want to be Sisko or Picard or Archer then most likely yes.
I’m sorry but what you’ve described about Tilly is like something out of a Nickelodeon teen high school drama. She hasn’t mentored anyone except in one episode. She went ‘away’ and supposedly became an amazing well rounded person. This show has disrespected the actress with poor development and no real storyline except ‘oh hey, i’m awkward guys’.
You made very good points and I do agree. But to play the Devil’s Advocate here for a moment… Tilly as she was originally presented and continued to be for quite some time is not something most women would aspire to be I should think. However, if we got to see Tilly gradually improve herself. Overcome her issues. Make better choices. And we saw the results of all that. Then that very well could be something for not just women but everyone to aspire towards. A person who we see strive to make themselves a better person. However, the problem with Tilly (and this really is more of a Star Trek Discovery problem because it exists with every character they do this to) is that she never made strides or attempts to improve. This was her character and then had perhaps one or two incidents where she became a little more focused and then off screen came back a different person. The Tilly we saw as Earth, check that… “United” (eyeroll) Earth… …was being evacuated is NOT the same Tilly we saw for the previous 40+ episodes. That was an awfully fast turnaround. And it all happened OFF SCREEN! We never saw her effort to become that person. It just happened. Personally I don’t find that inspiring in any way whatsoever. It’s just lazy writing.
You are correct, it comes down to the same thing, poor plot development. Definitely not a dig at the actress, she is only delivering what the directors and producers have asked her to deliver.
I find her character interesting, but inconsistent. Just like every other character in a show that generally is badly written.
I think Saru holds out as being the most consistent, and Tilly is close, but not quite. I like her personality though, mostly.
I thought her arc was going to end with her being booted from the service for repeatedly failing physical fitness tests?
You’re funny.
Goodbye
Can’t believe some fans complain about character A or B or C. I am sorry, but the obsessive complaining about Sonequa/Michael or Mary/Tilly, for who they are, is so rude. It’s good to have ALL type of people/stories in our Star Trek Universe.
Some of us don’t grasp the very basic foundation of what Star Trek is all about!? Unity? Diplomacy? Understanding? Sharing? Learning? Acceptance? Right!? Just mentioning few of their values. If we don’t have tolerance and respect, how are we able to learn and improve humanity!?
Yes but Star Trek shouldn’t be about lazy writing, poor character development and bad storytelling. This is why Discovery is polarising and this is why people four seasons in still dislike Burnham and Tilly as characters.
I agree, the writing, character development, and story telling needs to improve. Absolutely.
What is wrong, pretty bad to read, is fans mocking the actors, it is actually very sexist, not cool.
I don’t read the same type of criticism for their male actors. The frequency and level of mockery and hate, very often is targeted to the female actors, for them to behave like women, to behave as woman leaders.
Actually, the production team is not helping either. It is constantly exposing the never ending struggle of smart and talented woman of color. Even 1,000 years into the future, Burham cannot…oh well, that is a different story for a different post.
I think criticism of the actors is wrong as well, it’s not about the actors it’s what they have been told deliver. Although criticism of a performance is valid (Burnham’s whispering, over emoting etc.)
For what it’s worth Picard has an excellent cast, male and female, it just feels they are one or two notches above their discovery peers, maybe again due to writing/direction
Picard is the third Kurtzman Production. Took time to reset the franchise. I admit, has been a roller coaster between each season. But because of Discovery we have Lower Decks, Picard, Prodigy, Strange New Worlds, Short Treks, possibly Section 31 and the Academy show.
The audience is growing due to our amazing loyalty, but I give them credit too…because Discovery, we have all these new shows. All are different. All are Trek!
🖖🏽
I think the character would have been much better served if Tilly’s quirks were something that changed as the character grew over the seasons. If there had been a believable logical progression from Cadet Tilly in season 1 to Starfleet Academy instructor in season 4, where they had built up the character to where she shed bits and pieces of the awkwardness as she became more confident in her abilities.
There have been moments where they tried to do that, but like everything else on Discovery where self-doubt and emotional scenes of worry in darkly-lit rooms need to be front and center, they always seemed to bring Tilly back to spazzing out because she was nervous about whether she can do it before being put on a mission.
Look at the progression of Nog on DS9 from Quark’s juvenile-delinquent nephew in season 1 to Starfleet Ensign in the Dominion War on how writers can make you believe in a character’s growth and progression.
The Nog comparison is a good one.
Well said, Edward. For me, DS9 was the best Star Trek Show for character development. So many characters, and all were very well developed with interesting stories.
I’m mostly just curious if Tilly’s removal from Disco came from Wiseman looking to do other projects or if they wrote it in and broke the news that she was getting cut as a regular.
Something happened to Tilly (Wiseman) and Bryce (Rowe). Also the writers, Erika Lipoldt and Bo Yeon Kim. Where are they!?
Everybody does NOT love Tilly. She never wouldve made it through the Academy. Way too many issues. Just more pandering. This show has been for a niche of Trek fandom not the mainstream. Its participation trophy trek. Let it die.