‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Reveals Full Names Of M’Benga And Spock [UPDATED]

UPDATE

Representatives from Paramount+ have reached out with a statement about the names on the posters:

At Star Trek: Mission Chicago, we inadvertently displayed posters with Spock and M’Benga’s names that were incorrect.  Sometimes when you work at warp speed, mistakes are made. While Spock and M’Benga do indeed have first names, they have yet to be revealed.

 


Original story below

Banners at the official Mission Chicago Star Trek convention, which started today, have revealed that Strange New Worlds will be giving first names to two characters that previously did not have canonical first names, and both have their origins in Trek novels.

Meet Jabilo M’Benga

M’Benga’s first name of Jabilo comes from David Mack’s 2005 novel Harbinger. Jabilo is a word for “healer” or “medicine man” in the Luo language of Kenya.

Say Live Long and Prosper to S’chn T’Gai Spock

In a surprising move, Spock will also get a second name. His name was considered to be unpronounceable to off worlders (as strongly implied in TOS: “This Side of Paradise”). This name comes from the 1985 novel Ishmael.

 

What say you about these new names?


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Why does Spock need a full name? We’ve gone decades without knowing it and it’s kind of cool that we don’t know. I mean, it’s kind of like Doctor Who’s actual name; it’s better leaving it a mystery.

This. This creative “brain trust” just can’t help themselves.

You mean they can’t help but take decades old non-canon sources and use them to flesh out their series? I for one, love it. Shows a lot of respect for the history of the franchise. THIS.

Respect for the franchise would be to give a reason for even needing things like this. Their “respect” is superficial, at best. They’ve been pooping all over canon since Disco Episode 1. If they want to convey respect, they’ll start honoring actual canon instead of trying to put a superficial stamp of their own upon it.

Hear fucking hear.
👍🏻🖖🏻♥️

He’s had a full name for decades. Stop it with your ignorant-ass bullcrap.

Reading helps. They took it from a 1985 novel. It’s older than TNG… They just canonized it. So what’s wrong with it?

Because it didn’t work in 1985 either.

I’m not much of n “expanded universe ” type. The TV series and movies are all I really ever delve into. As I’ve said elsewhere here, I can certainly understand why some fans love this sort of thing; it can be very satisfying to explore every aspect of a fictional universe. I’ve just never been that into that sort of thing.

Honestly I don’t know hardly anything about Star Trek other than what I see in the TV shows and movies. But that said, this is something they been doing for awhile now. Star Wars does it as well. And we knew he had another name, so why not use one already out there.

I don’t think it’s needed, but welcome to prequels. This is what they do, fill in stuff we don’t know or add things to previous canon with a twist. Obviously sequels do it too but prequels do it in a way where it just feels more pronounced a lot of the times.

Just thinking about it though, we now have names to three characters we never officially had before: Uhura, Number One and now Spock. Uhura has the same one from the Kelvin universe but that was also in Beta canon before too.

Yep. My fundamental problem with prequels is that they exist only to fill out something else’s backstory, and it’s hard for me to care about that. Like Star Wars. I didn’t need three two-plus hour movies to explain to me how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. One would have sufficed, and even then, is this really something we need to know? Now, on the other hand, if you’re the sort of fan who loves to explore every nook and cranny of the Star Wars universe, this is absolutely vital information, so I get why someone might really care about it.

If I’m being honest with myself… Regarding Star Wars by the time Jedi came out I was 17 years old and the cutesy teddy bears, torturing droids kind of thing was just rubbing me the wrong way to the point where I found myself rooting for the Empire by the time the film ended. And I felt that way for quite some time. Then the prequels came. The firs two were indeed pretty awful in more ways than one. But after viewing the Anikan backstory I went back to watch the original trilogy. And I found my desire to root for the Empire was gone. Seeing his story come full circle… That the same fear of loss that drove him down the dark path was the same thing that caused him to come back… It gave me empathy for the character. Sure, he had to die because of the the evil things he did. But he suddenly became tragic. That is what a prequel can do. Obviously it doesn’t always work. It has to be in the right hands. Revealing the rest of Spock’s name feels like the reason Han was called Solo. It doesn’t help the character one teeny tiny bit. So why waste time with it?

Yep, we’re in the same boat! ;)

When Discovery was announced to be a prequel, for the people who was excited over it used that very reason why they were, so it could fill in to historical events and characters. For people like me who hated the idea, that was exactly why I didn’t want one. I just never cared to learn how Klingons got warp drive (which they didn’t bother explaining anyway lol) or why Spock smiled. Didn’t care then, still don’t care now.

That was actually my biggest issue with Enterprise because it was built on the entire premise we’ll learn how the Federation came together. Never once, ever, did I care about that. Sure I like hearing about it, I just didn’t need an entire TV show to go into intricate detail explaining it for five seasons either. I was fine to have Picard or Janeway just tell us something about it in an episode somewhere. So I was put off by the show from the start. But I know for a lot of other fans, the idea was probably very appealing to them who wants all that back story and minutiae. I came around later, but this was not until years later.

So yeah it’s just your mindset really. It’s the same people who reads novels of early adventures of TOS because they want to know how Kirk and Spock met, what their lives were like before being on the Enterprise, etc. Well, now we’re probably going to get that in the most detailed and drawn out way possible. And after 50+ years, it will finally be canon. ;)

Oops, I meant how Klingons got cloaking technology, not warp drive. ;)

I think the Klingons got cloaking tech because the enemy in SFS was supposed to be Romulans but I think some studio people demanded they be changed to Klingons. But by that point models and scripts were already done so now we have Klingons using Romulan classes of ships as well as using cloaks. Not sure why this concept was picked up and ran with after that. It didn’t make sense when they did it and it didn’t make sense to continue with the error. But.. C’est la vie.

I know that I mean in canon. It’s never been explained or ever tried to correct it in some way as you said. I don’t care personally, it was just an example.

Sorry. To me, giving Klingons cloaks has always been a small thorn in my side. It’s something that I wish was dropped after that movie error.

You mean the novel that you and 15 people read.

Sorry, but that’s just not very compelling.

Why does it have to remain a mystery, is my question? Why does it upset you? Seriously griping nitpickery, these days. Impossibly inane.

Because even Spock’s mother could only pronounce many of these things “after a fashion”… permanent anthropological truths/mysteries in the lore is what makes this Star Trek and Vulcans – – and NOT Star Wars!

The nitpickery is NOT from the people demanding that the writers work harder to tell stories that speak to the magic of Star Trek rather than tell-me-all, answer-all-my-questions-right-now laziness that is just as good for copy for an episode of Survivor or a teleplay for any mindless Dick Wolf show.

Just keep lowering the bar, eh?

Doesn’t “upset” me one bit. I honestly don’t care what they do; it’s their show. I really don’t see the point though. I can see how a fan might though.

It’s not “their” show. It’s our show. Without the devoted fan community they wouldn’t have jobs.

Oh come on. That’s nonsense. Talk about hubris. The “fan community” surely watches Star Trek, but the fan community is just that: fans. Fans don’t make it, fans don’t own the IP.

So many die-hard fans have very over-inflated opinions of how much they matter to the franchise’s success. There are a LOT of people who watch the shows without internalizing everything. They enjoy what they watch without noticing any inconsistencies, without ever looking up anything online because they don’t care, and without ever thinking about it after the episode airs. The types of fans who come to boards like this one represent a tiny, tiny percentage of viewers. We are, in the end, rather insignificant. To inflate our important beyond that is rather silly.

Without fans, people like Bjo Trimble, there would have been no TOS third season. Without a third season, there would probably not have been a syndication deal. Without syndication, there probably wouldn’t have been the conventions, the (first) animated series, and everything else that grew from that…

Fans have carried this franchise for decades. Without the fans Star Trek would never have returned at the end of the ’70s and I can assure you that the fans who visit boards like this are at the very core of what keeps Star Trek going.

Unlike the MCU and Star Wars, there are no casual Star Trek fans. It’s a passionate fanbase with knowledge of the franchise that runs deep and Paramount is aware of this. To say that the fanbase is insignificant is to not have a clear understanding of why Star Trek has managed to endure for over five decades.

The name has been around since the ’80s.

But it wasn’t canon.

It is now. ;)

In a novel. Canon is necessary to a certain extent to ensure some measure of internal consistency. But adequately defining what is or is not canon can be problematic. Presumably, novels are, in the broadest sense, “canon” since they’re officially sanctioned works. But what happens when something in a novel is later contradicted by a movie or series episode?

The novels have always been officially not canon, unless a producer of a filmed project decided to lift something from them; then that element would become canon. It didn’t really happen in the past, other than Sulu’s and Uhura’s names, both of which came from 80s novels; but there’s some good stuff there to harvest. My favorite was one of the baby Hortas from Devil in the Dark who made several appearances in novels and the DC Comics TOS series as an Academy trained Starfleet officer, with a thought to speech unit allowing communication with humanoid crewmates. In one novel, they inserted him onto Romulus for a mission by launching him out of a torpedo tube outside of sensor range and letting the gravity well pull him in for planet fall. The Romulans thought he was a meteorite!

His momma called him Spock, I’m gonna call him Spock.

You typed the words from my mouth…

Mystery is lost on these people…

But, but in “Journey to Babel,” Amanda makes it clear that it’s Spock’s FAMILY name that’s unpronounceable by humans and that Spock IS Spock’s first name. I mean, Amanda and Sarek called him “Spock” all during “Journey to Babel;” surely they weren’t calling their son by his last name.

Giving Spock a first name is just WRONG. Spock HAS a first name; it’s Spock.

Dorothy Fontana — who was considered the “Vulcan expert” of TOS’s behind-the-scenes staff and who made up such Spockian details as the fact that his father was an ambassador and his mother a school teacher — revealed in an issue of the fanzine Spockanalia that she had intended his family name to be “Xtmprsqzntwlfd,” but since this is unpronounceable, there wasn’t really any way to get this said in dialogue during an episode.

So, really, his name should be Spock Xtmprsqzntwlfd.

That’s why in the body of the article we said it’s Spock’s “second name”, because as you noted, it’s probably not his first name. “First name” in the headline was just shorthand.

YOU know that. It isn’t clear to me that the people making SNW know that, and that concerns me.

To step in here, maybe they are preventing him from being called “Mxylplk” (and I remember reading about this too).

That’s rather Anglocentric to assume the name listed first isn’t his family name… ;)

It’s not MY assumption; all of the articles about this — check Trek Core — CALL it his first name. I assumed they knew what they were talking about.

That’s because most mass audiences don’t know the little itty bitty details of random 50+ yr old episodes of Star Trek. Relax.

“Journey to Babel” is one of the more important episodes of TOS for establishing canon, and is probably on every “10 Original Episodes of Star Trek to Watch” lists, rock star. It’s rather far from “random.”

It looks as if Vulcan naming conventions are similar to those used on Bajor, with the family name placed before the individual’s name (i.e. Kira Nerys).

It’s also an Asian naming custom as well.

Of course. In context of the conversation, though, Bajor would have been the first planet to use it within the Trek narrative.

Anglocentric? Most cultures have the individuals name first, followed by family name. It is just the logical way to do it.

I’m amused that you think that.

It’s anglocentric to think it’s somehow more ‘logical’ to have the personal name before the surname,

“Anglocentric” wouldn’t be the word. Cultures all over Africa, West Asia, and South Asia put family name last — it’s not just Europe, or “Anglos.”

There are plenty of cultures that do not even traditionally use a family name. For instance, Turks did not traditionally have family names; Ataturk introduced them as part of his modernization process, since they facilitated record-keeping.

Just a tangential thought, but most Earth language family names simply originated as either “Son of [name]”, “From [name of place]” or “Name of profession”. Not sure if the original source material explains what Spock’s family name means, but it would be semi interesting to see if it fits these conventions. I’m sure someone who remembers the book will know.

And how many of those do it because they were colonized?

Anglocentric.

Could be I guess that Vulcan’s put their family name first and given name last. Like Bajorans. We wouldn’t know since there has never actually been an on screen Vulcan with more than one name before, as far as I know.

The sheer gall in this change. I really didn’t think Kurtzman Trek could surprise me anymore.

“Sheer gall” is about right. If it’s not broken, don’t fix it!

Exactly right. There just is no need for this. But that’s how this group operates. It’s not about adding anything really meaningful. I really have hoped to see this series in particular be the Trek that spreads its wings and does something great. But whether it’s the canonical character heavy new cast of characters, tieing in to existing characters (L’aan Noonien Singh) unnecessarily, and now going back to dredge up names no one cares about. My hopes are dwindling with every new sliver of information we get.

Remember… These are the same people who decided to do an entire multi-episode Spock arc about why he smiled in The Cage.

Well, the leading fanzine for Star Trek fans back in the ‘70s — called ‘Trek’, sensibly enough — chose to publish a whole article on that very subject. As to whether the piece was warranted or not, opinions may reasonably differ. But at least the authors didn’t have the monumental hubris to suggest that their preferences were shared by everyone.

Fair enough. But the fact is the reason is because the director asked him to. End of story.

Are they the folks who decided Uhura’s first name was Penda? (that was before Nyota came along in, around 17 books into the PocketBooks line of novels.)

Come to think of it, Hikaru came from McIntyre’s THE ENTROPY EFFECT, Pocket’s first post-TMP entry. I’m pretty sure TREK or some other mag decided Sulu’s first name was Walter (and I think this was before Wise started mixing up names on Koenig and Takei, too.)

Exactly. They’re filling in all sorts of peripheral details that don’t need filling in. Even if Spock has a second name or family name or patronymic of whatever, why is this so important? Part of the allure was in the mystery, as with Quincy and MacGyver.

Gilligan had another name, too. Sherwood Schwartz told Denver about it but it never appeared on the show.

Willie Gilligan, though that was a surprise to me, as I thought G was his first name (that way Eddie Murphy could have called him Giligan Jenkins.)

Confirmed. According to Schwartz, through Bob Denver, Gilligan’s first name was Willie. And I, too, thought Gilligan was the first name.

Heh, you mean Angus MacGyver? ;-)

That could be the subtitle to all of Secret Hideout’s Star Trek.

“We break what isn’t broken.”

So true

“Could be I guess that Vulcan’s put their family name first and given name last. Like Bajorans.”

Yeah, our like the Chinese, Koreans etc…

Yep. 👍

But again the larger point I was making is there isn’t actually any canon examples of this, one way or the other, unlike the Bajorans. All Vulcans, not just Spock, have always been shown with one name and one name only.

Maybe they usually only use one name in everyday interactions. However, the way Vulcan names have been presented makes little sense. In the beginning that said that all Vulcan names started with an S and ended with a K. So we got Spock, Sarek, Surak and Sybok. Later they added T is the first letter with Tuvok, but still kept the 5 character limit. There is a very small number of pronounceable combinations of 5 letters. Certainly not enough to give unique names to a planet full of people.
So maybe Vulcans have a secondary name part that isn’t used in everyday communication but helps to keep them apart.

You just plagiarized Memory Alpha, word for word.

Spock is his given name. S’chn T’gai is his family name. We learn now Vulcans (very much like some peoples on Earth) use their family name first, their given name second. Also, S’chn T’gai is obviously a transliteration from the Vulcan alphabet to the Latin alphabet. The Vulcan alphabet may very well have phonemes that are unpronounceable by humans, and this transliteration is the best they could do to approximate the correct pronunciation (it happens ALL THE TIME between human languages, and we can only assume it goes worse when it comes to alien languages). There is nothing about this that it is a problem, canon or verisimilitude-wise.

Oh my God! Logic! (Pun intended) You’re supposed to bitch, moan and complain that the people in charge obviously don’t (fill in the blank); because they aren’t making new Star Trek content that is tailored exactly to the fan wank in your head! Don’t you know how the internet works?

I agree 100%. Star Wars brainfart-overthinking in the prequels was Midi-chlorians. Now we have Star Trek’s brainfart-overthinking on the SNW prequel series, Spock’s name reveal.

Makes sense for M’Benga. But I kinda hate Spock’s. It’s like giving Yoda a first name, or his species’s race a name. It feels all kinds of wrong.

Yeah.

Personally, I think it’s cool. We’re likely going to hear it referenced once, and you’ll realize you’re upset over nothing.

That would be my guess, actually.

Nah.

Spock has had this first name since the ’80s.

In fan fiction perhaps.

No, in an officially sanctioned Trek novel.

Can’t you read?

“ No, in an officially sanctioned Trek novel.”

Insert “They’re the same picture” meme here.

That’s elitism and 100 percent inaccurate.

How many names has the RomComm from EntInc had in the novels? There was Di’on Charon in the Bantam Culbreath/Marshak books, but I’m pretty sure she had another name (right before she was run through and killed) in BLACK FIRE. And I know she is mentioned in Diane Duane’s work, but only recall she is described as dead.

Incorrect.

I remember suggesting back in the early 80s that it should actually turn out to be, ‘Yo, Da’ (like “hi pops”) but that didn’t float any better than Luke’s X-wing with the folks I tried it out on. I even tried to sugarcoat it by saying the meaning is fluid … in a manner of speaking.

Ge’sund’heit, Spock.

I can’t stop chuckling. Thank you!

Perhaps in Vulcan culture the family name(s) come first and Spock is his first name.

Or it could be Vulcans have no “first” or “last” name the way we think of it. It’s just a string of words, and he has chosen the one “Spock” as his common name. In the end, it doesn’t really matter.

The question is how individualistic Vulcan is. Cultures that put the family name first tend to be more collectivist in nature — the family comes before the individual.

The needs of the many…

One word, imo: Unnecessary. Leave some of the mystery intact, c’mon. Haven’t these showrunners ever heard of the term ‘just because you Can, doesn’t mean you Should?’ I have a feeling this show is going to destroy canon. I know some fans don’t care about that, but I’m one that does. I feel like chalking SNW up to an alternate universe even before it starts. That way they can do whatever they want and it won’t bother me.

Great Scott, man. The name was given way back in 1985… They just canonized it now…

It was given in a novel that few probably remember. It was unnecessary.

Complaining about it is what’s totally unnecessary :-)

Making a significant change to one of American pop culture’s most prominent characters is going to produce some controversy, chap. Though I know a subset of fans seem to view themselves as Guardians of the Secret Hideout.

[shrug] I remember it. It’s once of my favourite of the Trek novels, in fact.

I kinda feel like just personally thinking of ALL of Secret Hideout Trek is just 100% reboot. I’ve been teetering on that edge for a while now. And if this is an indication of how SNW is going to go then it might be best to just think of it all that way.

Remember that phrase was in a Trek movie written by Meyer, a guy they hired and subsequently just left up on a shelf for a year for dsc s1.

Spock’s second name is lame!

No. It’s T’Gai.

How gai?

You forgot the accent mark.

Well, what’s really unforgiveable is not providing a pronunciation guide for Spock’s full name… ;)

It’s actually pronounced “Fred” — Vulcan spelling isn’t phonetic.

I am from the South. In my region’s dialect, it’s actually pronounced Kevin.

No, on Vulcan, is John. That’s why T’Pring leaves Spock with a “Dear John” letter on “Amok Time”. There the “Dear John” letter is delivered with lirpas.

S’ is an ejective S. C is a palatal sound, Hungarian ty or Russian КЬ. H is a breathy H, N is just N.
.
T’ is an ejective T. No breath, just spoken with a pocket of air trapped behind the tongue. Gai basically sounds like English “guy”+ a short “ee” at the end.

I’m ok with this. Spock’s other name has been accepted in fandom for a long time.

Well, some of it, anyway. I suspect that in a broader sense, most fans have no idea his name was revealed in a 30 year old novel, so in one sense, it really doesn’t matter since it will be brand new to them. And in any event, Star Trek isn’t made solely for the fans, nor should it be.

That’s true. What I meant was that it comes up from time to time in fanfics without further explanation being needed. I didn’t know it was actual beta canon though.

I agree that depending on how you interact with the fandom, it might be new to some people. There are certainly some fan concepts (such as mpreg) that shouldn’t have become canon but this seems fairly harmless.

The wailing and crying up thread, unfortunately, might contradict your statement. The sad part is, they’re getting bent out of shape over a “change” (their term) that 99.9% of fans, non-fans and press and 95% of in canon characters won’t ever use. Everyone will continue to call him Spock.

Idont’ca re, Spock

His full name is: Mister Spock. 😉

Peter Falk used to say Columbo’s first name was “lieutenant.”

Did you know it was actually Frank?

So wrong. So superfluous. So totally unnecessary. This doesn’t add to the character; it subtracts from the character. This is 100% showrunner hubris. SNW is looking pretty good; this is the first sour note.

I’d say adding in the Khan character was the first sour note. But this is absolutely another big red flag. I do hope I’m wrong as this was the only new Trek show I was truly looking forward to.

Nothing wrong with fleshing out some detail. Everyone is still calling this fictional character Spock. Nothing there is changing.

True but it’s kinda like in the next Batman reboot Bruce Wayne’s name is now Phillip Wayne. Nothing really changes to this fictional character. But fans are going be annoyed and ask “Why?”

It’s more like revealing Bruce Wayne’s middle name. OK, that’s nice, but so?

Or, he’s not just “Batman” his full name is really Mariana Fruit Bat man.”

Bruce Banner to David Bruce Banner for Bixby’s HULK … supposedly because all the TV folk thought the name Bruce sounded too gay for a Marvel hero.

I have heard that, but have also heard that they were concerned about being confused with Bruce Wayne. I’m not 100% sure on that one though.

In jr hgh & highschool throughout the 70s there was the omnipresent ‘Batman and Robin are so gay’ vibe as I recall. So Bruce is still for that era ‘gay’ by frequent association (and not in a good way since there was zero tolerance.)

Come to think of it, one of my best buds at the start of highschool was named Bruce, and I remember him saying the reason he learned to fight so well was because he used to get hassled for bring a Bruce.

“His name was considered to be unpronounceable to off worlders”

Which is utterly true with this name given :-)

My best guess how to pronounce it would be Sean T. Guy or Sean T. Gay… Or is it Esken T. Guy? Suck on T. Gay? No idea :-)

Great, keep lowering the bar for the writers… anything to flash at the audience but actual plot driven story…

With Spock’s family name being drawn from beta canon, I’m reluctantly fine with this.

But there had better be an interesting, story-related reason for it other than just the novelty of it. Absolutely no reason to stir the pot unnecessarily, otherwise.

Here, here!!

Don’t really care about M’Benga’s first name.

Not a fan of giving Spock a first name. It’s better to leave it ambiguous.

What is it about Trek writers that feel compelled to examine things that don’t need to get examined? Secret Hideout is awfully guilty of this but Enterprise did it, too with their ‘why Klingons have ridges now’ episodes. Ultimately it was a decent story but it really didn’t need to get done at all.

:::shrug::: So don’t watch the shows.

Maybe you shouldn’t read message boards.

Ouch.

🤣👍

Unlike you with Star Trek, I enjoy message boards.

So, unlike me I guess your enjoyment of message boards consists of telling people not take part in something they are a fan of. A little on the dark side but if telling people what to do gives you giggles then knock yourself out, I guess.

I take it you prefer your message boards free of informed dissenting opinions? That’s about like preferring bowling lanes where the pins have already been knocked down for you.

Can’t say this upsets me all that much, but I thought one of the great things about Spock and the Vulcans was that, even though they were old friends of humanity, they were still mysterious. They were often secretive and evasive about themselves and their culture, and so they were interesting. Less is more.

Although, maybe they can make a good joke out of it like Henry Jones, Jr. “We named the dog Spock!”

Sorry, that was Henry Jones, Sr. who said that. Gotta get my Indy facts right.

Less is more.

I tend to agree, but certainly there are fan for whom “less is less.” Who enjoy in-depth explorations of the Star Trek universe. I get it. For that sort of fan, this is really cool – we finally know Spock’s whole name.

That’s fine if you want that sort of detail. Not sure I always want that, especially when secrets are apart of the culture in this particular case.

To me, those who relish in every tiny little detail of Trek, there are the novels and other non-canonical sources. I’m not ripping on fans who do. Decades ago I used to read the novels as well. Just that feels like something for those who want a deeper dive, that’s all.

I always knew in my heart of hearts that his full name was Spock Jones. I can sleep peacefully now.

According to Eddie Murphy, it’s “Jenkins”….

To those confused about the name: S’chn T’gai isn’t Spock’s first name. It’s his family name. His name is Spock. His father is S’chn T’gai Sarek.

They should have just gone with Xtmprszntwlfd as rumored to have been said by DC Fontana. Spock’s last name is XTMPRSZNTWLFD according to the U.S.S. Enterprise Officer’s Manual by Geoffrey Mandel and Doug Drexler.

I would have reluctantly been fine with that choice I think. It truly is alien and unpronounceable and no one will ever actually use it or even remember how to spell it.

It’d still be completely unnecessary, but it would at least have those redeeming qualities.

In fact, it’s not just rumored. It’s from a published 1970s interview with Fontana in the magazine Spockanalia.

Like Harrison Ford told George Lucas, “You can type this ****, but you sure can’t say it!”….

My favorite line from Star Wars that I wish was in Star Wars.

There’s no smileys or thumbs up. I feel like a caveman. How did we express agreement on comment threads before smileys and emojis?

There is if you type on your phone. It’s oddly missing from the computer version for some reason.

(If you’re on Microsoft Windows, chances are that pressing the Windows-key and the period simultaneously, you’ll get your li’l emoji window!) 😉👉🪟🖖🤨

Thanks! 👍 👍

Yeah, thanks. I will give it try when I’m on a computer.

How about using words? Like, “yes I concur.” It has worked for a very long time, across all the world’s cultures.

Indeed.

The irony is that Ford saying Lucas’ **** turned him into one of the biggest and well paid actors of his generation.

Hey, there can be a lot of money in the fertilizer business.

I’ll probably get screamed at for this, but screw canon. I honestly don’t care. Give me a great series with great stories, and as long as it stays mostly true to the commonly accepted conventions of Star Trek, I honestly don’t give a flying f*@k about canon. Let the screaming commence.

I won’t scream at you. I feel the same way. Like I said, canon is fine to a point. But I had to laugh at the small, but vocal group of fans who complained that the production design in Disco didn’t look enough like the production design of a nearly 60 year old tv series. ‘Twas ever thus, though. I’m old enough to remember the same reaction from some quarters about the sets in Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

I’ll take it a step further… I’ll be fine with a couple of plot holes here and there if the overall story works.

Well, still waiting on tthat great series with great stories part …
Until then, I ferl llike respectimg canon is part of the producer’s job description.

It’s times like this I’m reminded of that obscure line from that old movie. “Young minds. Fresh ideas. Be tolerant.”

Perhaps “fresh” is a bit of stretch in this case but you get the idea.

“Fresh ideas” evidently meaning at least three characters who we’ve seen before extensively, three more who made guest appearances on TOS, and another one who is related to Khan (but not a Sikh).

I’m fine with it personally.

I’m totally fine with Spock’s full name and M’Benga’s to be honest. No judgement on that.

The original series is becoming a bit of a footnote. The first encounter with Khan, a long forgotten figure in Earth’s history, now has an ancestor on the Enterprise. The Mirror Universe, thought to have first been encountered by Kirk and crew after a transporter malfunction, was actually first encountered by the crew of Discovery. The original Enterprise itself has essentially been erased from canon.

Based on what we’re seeing in Picard Season 2, Terry Matalas probably would have taken Discovery and Strange New Worlds in a different direction and revealing Spock’s full name would have been deemed unnecessary.

I suppose that’s inevitable given how old the original series is. It is not, however, inevitable that old characters and situations have to be constantly revisited. I understand there’s a commercial consideration at work here. But still, how about some new ideas?

It’s not “inevitable” if they’d stop offering up prequels.

Thank you! Part of the reason I don’t watch Discovery and won’t watch Strange New Worlds is that I’m sick of Trek going into the past. It’s like after Nemesis the franchise has just gone backward and stayed there. Enterprise, Kelvin universe, Discovery, Strange New Worlds. The only things we’re getting in the “present” is animated (Lower Decks and Prodigy) and Picard. Can we just get a regular series in the present or future in live action? Please?

Welcome to prequels. ;)

People wanted a Pike show, which was completely understandable, but they had to know that they are going to add their own spin to a lot of what came before because they were already doing it with Discovery. People are freaking out that Spock now has another name (which was at least in Beta canon) but seem to forgot these were the same brain trust that gave him an entire new sibling out of nowhere lol. That was never part of any novels from what I know.

So if they are willing to do THAT, then no one and I mean NO ONE should be shocked about this.

That said, I wouldn’t say TOS is a footnote, everything they are doing IS based around TOS, but how they are adding to it is definitely questionable in many ways, having a Khan relative the biggest one IMO.

The one thing I will say intrigues me about SNW is how they’re going to deal with Pike knowing his fate. That could make him a very interesting character. Imagine having a character who is, in essence, invulnerable. How would that effect his decisions and actions? However, looking at the trailer, I can’t help but think they’ll have Spock use his magic “forget” powers to sidestep that whole thing. I hope not.

See, to me that’s not intriguing at all. If he truly believes it then he would feel indestructible until that time comes. So if he threw himself out an airlock he would know he survives. That just doesn’t work. The only way anyone could sanely move forward is to just know it’s not set in stone. That the future is fluid in spite of what was said. He has zero reason to believe it. None. So he should just move forward with his live as he normally would. There is no other reasonable way to do it. If it weighs on him, the by all means Spock should put a “forget” whammy on him.

I agree with this 100% Pike has no more reason to take Klingon philosophy at face value than he does to believe any other myths. That being said, Trek has always played fast and loose with the truth behind the myth so who knows how they will deal with it. One thing is clear, Pike thumbing his nose at death because he knows his own fate would likely lead to some rather flat story telling after a while.

Which is why I find this character “dilemma” to be extremely flawed.

to be fair, Disco wasn’t the first time Spock had a surprise sibling show up

LOL, true!

Spock had an emotional ‘weird cousin’ named Stephen in another McIntyre novel, one that wasn’t as good as her novelizations and ENTROPY EFFECT. Assuming anybody at Paramount read, you could almost figure he is the basis for Sybok, given the book came out in 1986 and TFF came out in ’89.

Interesting! Never heard of this until now. You could be completely right.

It was one of the only TREK novels that was heavily publicized pre-release, as it tied in with 25th anniversary and was called ENTERPRISE HER FIRST MISSION or something like that. It starts well, but by the time they get onto the mission — which is escorting circus performers, including aforementioned Stephen someplace — it had really lost me.

I remember reading it a second time before discarding it (good TREK novels I read six or eight times … and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve reread PRIME DIRECTIVE, THE FINAL REFLECTION, MY ENEMY, MY ALLY, THE WOUNDED SKY and A STITCH IN TIME) — and I pinpointed exactly where it was that the book lost me — it was something that I think has echoed in some of the TREK stuff done in the last few years in how it sat wrong with me.

In their early interactions, Kirk and Spock do not get along at all — maybe it is because Kirk was overruled on his choice of XO, Gary MItchell — and Spock seems really pissed at having to babysit this guy. At one point he starts drafting a letter requesting transfer — to anyplace, just off this ship.

For McIntyre, who had such a sure hand in how she wrote Spock in ENTROPY, to go this way with the character, just to try for an arc that would summon the future by story’s end, seemed somehow imposed on the story, very unsubtle in how it was contrived (this is what I mean about resonating with current Trek and how it plays with existing canon.)

This was before all the restrictions came down on the novels, but right after the slipup with KILLING TIME, so maybe somebody was taking a more active hand with managing the writing, especially given, as I mentioned above, that this was a high-profile release. I won’t say it was the first big disappointment in the Pocket line (TRIANGLE was that for me, and that’s saying something, since I seem to be the only person on the planet who dug all three of the previous M&C novels), but between that McI’s TVH novelization, I sensed some tiredness if that’s a word.

I don’t think I’ve even given this book a thought so far this century, but clearly it must have rankled to make me spew like this!

It was just as iill-conceived the first time.

The Cage had a completely developed crew. Yet they have chosen to ignore the majority of them, adding in new characters, and characters from the Kirk era for no yet apparent reason, except perhaps they didn’t want another old white guy in a key role (sorry Dr. Boyce). Not to say the crew created for the first pilot is written in stone but one wonders why they made the changes they did, particularly adding yet another member of the Sing/Soong Dynasty.

I understand but this show starts years later after the events of The Cage, so it doesn’t really matter in that regard. Officers to get transferred, retires, dies, etc.I suggested when we saw Pike on Discovery that those characters were probably just gone since they were never even referenced on that show. But I’m guessing they will be referenced on what happened to them for this show.

But I do agree they probably went a bit overboard with all the TOS characters and the Khan relative just feels so ridiculously left field; but we’ll have to see how they handle that. I’m guessing not great though lol.

Sing Soong Blue, everybody knows one,
Sing Soong Blue, every garden grows one (except Omicron Ceti III and Ceti Alpha V),
(variant on Neil Diamond song)

The less I’m allowed to use my own imagination, the less interested I am in the show. Goes for Star Wars as well.

Creative people create mystery. Uncreative people mine it.

If you don’t mind, I think I would like to appropriate that last line of your post as a sig line on some forums in the future.

Not that there isn’t sometimes value in the ‘mining’ (look at most of Meyer’s TWOK work), but that seems less and less likely as time goes on.

Full names, cool… what I’m more interested in is how amazing everyone looks in their uniforms. Bernadette Cross and Gersha Phillips really did an outstanding job. Everyone looks so freak’n cool!

I’m OK with either, but find canonizing Spock’s full name completely unnecessary, unless crucial for a well written plot.

He’ll likely continue to just be “Spock” to most people anyway… 🤷‍♂️

quite simply, Spock

My only question is does this now imply all Vulcans have second names? Because based on canon at least, doesn’t seem to be the case: T’Pol, T’Pau, Tuvok, etc. Or are they all just really unpronounceable too lol.

We can discuss and debate it like good Trek fans, keeping these characters alive in our minds and hearts, until CBS tells us their names and fashions headstones for them in the process.

To be fair, that’s what fictional entertainment does. We never even knew what the ‘T’ stood for in Kirk’s middle name until TAS or the movies. Sulu didn’t get a first name until TUC which is still crazy to me and Uhura never got one at all until the first Kelvin movie which is even crazier. And both of those were in Beta canon as well. So this isn’t exactly a first, right? No one freaked out over those lol.

I understand why it bothers people, but we already knew the guy had another name like we obviously knew Sulu and Uhura did just didn’t know what it was officially. Well now we do. That’s why it was created in a novel in the first place.

It’s bothering fans because supposedly the name is not pronounceable. A nice mystery to be left at that. But now they come up with something that is very pronounceable. Thus rendering Spock either a liar or an arrogant jerk.

That’s what I mean when I say I understand why it bothers people. But again, it has been part of beta canon for a long long time now.

And this was something said in one line from a 50 year old TV show, so it’s not the end of the world. But yes, it is breaking canon. But either way, is this going to exactly break anyone? It’s a name! Not needed, agreed, but this is not exactly the most egregious thing to break canon by a light year including all the classic Star Trek shows.

And by the time they are done with Spock on this show, I have a feeling we are going to know everything down to what underwear he prefers.

Not going to disagree on the fact that this new bit about Spock doesn’t change anything about the character beyond having to explain away the line from the “50 year old TV show”. But… For a group that loves to tell everyone how much they know and respect Trek to the point where they make some of the most obscure references that few even deep within fandom notice I find it odd that there are other things, things that were far more noticeable they choose to just throw away and ignore. I get that there are things they may need to blow off for the sake of their story. But I think they need to show better judgement on what they opt to toss out. Especially given the divisive nature of their product.

WoK got away with Khan recognizing Chekov only, I think, because overall the movie worked for most folks. TVH got away with absurd silliness and lame plot elements because for most, the movie worked for them. I don’t see SH Trek getting that level of love or respect. They ought to be more careful because of that.

It’s never about This One Thing. Learning what the T. stood for is fine. Learning Spock’s name is fine. But there’s a cumulative effect over the years that degrades the fiction.

Let me try to explain better. These characters don’t exist, right? We all understand that. They only exist in our minds. They take up valuable real estate. I know it sounds silly, but we basically nurture and feed these characters. If we don’t, they die, and their shows eventually die. The version of Spock (to pick just one example) in my mind is mostly my own creation. The parts of him that aren’t my creation are what’s shown on the screen, and maybe in other media (but let’s face it, the screen is the priority). You and I can debate HOW WE VIEW Spock, meaning all of the subjective stuff we each bring to the character. Neither of us can be right or wrong, and neither of us can win or lose. While people get passionate, in the end we each get to mostly play with our own toys. And we embrace the joy of finding someone else who appreciates our viewpoint on the character. It can unite fans as much as divide them, and in my experience it does the former more.

Whenever a franchise gives us more information than is necessary to tell a story about the character, it takes something away from us. We lose some interpretative power over the character. That bit of the character that lives in our heads… disappears. Now you and I can’t come up with our own idea of what Spock’s full name is. We lost that pleasure. It’s been carved in stone. Now all we can do is debate over whether or not it was a good idea for CBS to do it. That can ONLY divide us. It becomes only an argument about “not my Trek.” Which is sad.

Sure, it’s just a name. One little thing. But it’s not. It’s many little things building up over the years. And I know someone’s going to snark “you think they should never fill in details?” And I’m not sure what the answer is. I do think franchises get old and worn out. Maybe they should let this one go? Or better, do an honest reboot that doesn’t pretend to be the same thing. I dunno.

Chris, I’m going to be as clear about this as I can.

A. If it was up to me, there would be NO prequels at all so stuff like this can be just be avoided in general. Yes it doesn’t mean you can’t do these things in sequels or ongoing stories, but it’s rarely done like it is in prequels and that’s because of my next point.

B. People have to accept that when you are using old characters and story lines, writers still want to present something NEW with them. And that’s the other issue with prequels, because they want to justify the reason for doing it in the first place. They don’t want to just completely retread everything we already know about a character, they want to add new insight into who that character is 10 or 20 years down the road.

And I don’t think it’s just about giving Spock another name. I have a feeling it’s going to be a part of his development on the show. We already know he’s with a Vulcan girl on it, most likely T’Pring or maybe someone else. Well maybe that’s what she calls him, I don’t know obviously. But that’s my guess, we’re going to explore Spock’s VULCAN side of him beyond just knowing how he relates to humans, since we have only seen him relate to other Vulcans in two episodes in TOS and both times out of weird circumstances.

Again, this is what prequels do. I can be completely wrong, but now that they have Spock full time, writers now have the chance to go boldly where no other writer has gone before with him. And frankly since we know next to nothing about his life prior to TOS it’s all fair game man. You may not like it, but what did people expect when they heard we were getting this show?

C. No matter how people feel about it, you can not be surprised over it at this point after what they did on Discovery. Now I’m not saying I expected them to use his name, but not remotely shocked over it either. We had two seasons of Discovery that made this clear. Did you know he had a sister before 2017? You do now right? Before this show is over, we will probably learn things no one ever wanted to learn lol.

People yelled and screamed over getting a Pike show. Well now they got it. But if you were one of the people begging for one to happen, you HAD to know they are going to take full advantage of it. That’s why I wasn’t shocked hearing about Kirk showing up in season 2 or about this. This is kind of par for the course for them, is it not?

Maybe if the new name were revealed organically and of necessity in the course of story telling, instead of just slapped on a poster a month before the series starts. Doing it the latter way makes me think that it was the writers’ express intention to just stir up a “controversy” among fans. Series’ marketing campaigns are well-planned things; they didn’t drop this now thinking that people would just say “great” and move on…

Do you really believe that Phil? They did it to get fans mad at them? Why? Don’t they want to keep fans happy because that keeps them subscribing?

I think they did it this way because it’s a big convention, probably the biggest since the pandemic started, the show is starting soon and they are promoting it and the characters. And I have a feeling if they just said it on the show the same outraged people will still be outraged. ;)

Oh come on, they didn’t need to do this in order to “promote” the character of Spock. You really think that they’re gobsmacked and shocked – shocked! – that there isn’t universal love directed towards the reveal? They’re smart people, they knew what would happen. I didn’t say they’re trying to get fans “mad at them”, but merely to start a kerfuffle.

Dude you are taking this a little too personally lol. It’s a NAME people. A NAME!! OK?

And I don’t think they are that smart though since they keep pissing off their fanbase every year. ;)

So no, I don’t really think this is some strategy. They just make a lot of these crazy mistakes. Remember white Khan and the Orc Klingons? They thought they were hitting those out the park too.

Re: No prequels.

I’m not saying there should never be prequels or sequels or anything. I just mean that when you’re in charge of a franchise, and especially when you’re making a prequel that deals with a well-known set of characters and timeframe, you need to be extra careful. Precious cargo. If you want to shake things up, make a sequel that leaps far enough ahead that you don’t damage things. If Discovery was always set 900 years later, it would have been a better show.

Old fans are the best ambassadors for the franchise. They bring in new fans.

Speaking for myself, I don’t get the resistance to pure reboots. I was hoping ST 09 was going to be a true reboot. That’s the cleanest way to do it. Make Trek v2, where characters can be deconstructed/reconstructed and reimagined. People who prefer the original can feel secure that it’s untouched. People who don’t care about the embedded mythological history can view the new content with fresh eyes. What I don’t get is the constant desire to insert (what clearly feels like reboot) material into the existing saga. It feels like a territorial fight.

We 100% agree! I have said many times on these boards since Discovery was announced as a prequel that maybe it was best to just reboot it and it could just be its own thing and they don’t have to worry about trying to connect to a century of canon from TOS to VOY. It could’ve looked however it wanted, the Klingons can look totally different, look as advanced as it did, have the spore drive and so on. All the things people were yelling about would’ve not been an issue if it was a complete reboot.

That’s why they had to put it 900 years into the future to basically reboot it that way and to appease fans who said the show just looked and felt too out of place. This was probably the second best solution outside of a straight reboot but a far more interesting one too. I also agree, it should’ve just been in the 32nd century on day one and I think most fans would’ve been waaay more receptive to it (but still complain over the pretty bad writing ;)).

Others have said they don’t want to reboot the franchise because you lose out on the merchandising with the PU. I guess that’s true but if fans take to it like Prime then it won’t matter. But I guess that’s the issue. And the Kelvin movies have become really divisive among fandom and they wanted a ‘sure thing’ I guess. But if you place something that looks nothing like the old universe, fans will just say it’s not prime universe which some say today about Discovery.

So yeah, you have to get it right if you’re going to do this stuff or just make it clear it’s its own thing. And if SNW really blows it, they can’t just throw that ship 900 years into the future too.

I don’t get the resistance to pure reboots.

I don’t understand that either. I was hoping ’09 would be a reboot too. Just a straight redeax of TOS I didn’t think was a good idea. But retelling… Retooling things… The could work. But they just couldn’t fully let it be a refit. The PTB seem to live in complete fear of reboots. Honestly not sure why. Star Trek Discovery absolutely should have been a pure reboot. That would have solved nearly half of the shows issues with fans.

With the 09 film, I honestly thought it was going to be a reboot. A lot of fans at the time argued it was going to be a prequel, but that made no sense because once you did the first movie where you got them all on the Enterprise together, what could you do with the other movies without breaking canon? Unless you just made a series of movies where they did all their adventures before Where No Man Has Gone Before, but that didn’t really make sense to me either. So it had to be a reboot.

But then we learned they actually did something between a prequel and a reboot with the alternate timeline idea which I always said I really liked. I still think it was a great idea to do even though I’m still very critical on the films themselves. But it was a much more interesting idea than a boring origin story IMO.

But seeing how it has done the opposite of what it was meant to do and just alienated a lot of fans today (especially with some of the choices they made in it like making Kirk a Captain from a cadet and yeah, Khan) today I think it would’ve just been better to do a complete reboot from the start. Have the first film with Kirk joining Starfleet academy and work his way to the Enterprise while meeting some of the other characters along the way. Just take whatever they thought was vital from canon to use, fans probably would’ve liked the idea a lot more in the end.

In fact, I kind of assumed that’s what the next film would’ve done if they weren’t bringing back the Kelvin cast. I thought it would be like what Batman Begins did and a complete reboot laying out the definitive TOS origin story and do it as directly as possible this time. I’m actually happy to be wrong on that but we’re now going to get some version of it on SNW since we know Kirk is showing up years before TOS starts.

If you want to give unique names to a planet full of people you cannot do it with just 5-character words. There simply aren’t enough combinations, let alone pronounceable combinations. So Vulcans need some kind of additional identification to keep them apart but it seems they don’t use it in everyday conversation.
I’m pretty sure characters will keep referring to Spock as simply Spock in Strange New Worlds.

We’ve gone 50 years and had multiple full time Vulcan characters and over a dozen supporting Vulcan characters–all with one names only. In fact, the only species I can think of off the top of my head with just one name are Vulcans and Ferengi. I hear what you’re saying, but it’s never been an issue before or brought up. Ever.

So it’s not common but yeah maybe some aliens just have one name. How they distinguish between each other if they have the same name is probably done within their language but that’s just me spit balling.

I haven’t counted but we’ve most likely seen less than 50 named Vulcans over the course of more than 55 years of Trek. So yeah, having unique single names for them isn’t a problem. However, it becomes a problem when you consider that there are millions or even billions of Vulcans in the universe.
So the writers have now added a new identifier to Spock’s name. Some fans are acting like it’s the end of the world even though, in all likelihood, it won’t make any difference and characters on the show will still refer to the character as “Spock”.

As I said, I’m completely fine they gave him another name because yeah as you said it just makes sense. Same time, until just today I’ve never even thought about it which means it’s never been remotely an issue. Vulcans just had one name. That was the case with every Vulcan we met in the TOS era and all the other shows afterwards. And everyone seemed OK with it because its a TV show. But yeah, I think some people need to take that into consideration with this issue too. ;)

But now I am wondering does that mean bigger implications with ALL Vulcans? No one really bothered to answer my question but I do wonder will they kind of retcon the fact Vulcans have just one name and suggest they all have two names this whole time or will it just be something rare with Spock?

I’ve been a fan since TOS was originally aired, and I was never under the impression Vulcans had only one name. I took Amanda’s statement that Sarek’s family name was nearly unpronouncable and Spock’s statement that “You couldn’t pronounce it” as applicable to most if not all Vulcan family names. Hence all Vulcans in the series having family names but not using them in conversation with non-Vulcans. I also suspected Vulcans find this pleasing, in an arrogant but logical fashion.

OK, but it’s a bit weird that ALL of their given names are simple and usually 1-2 syllable words but yet all of their surnames are something you need a linguist to interpret for you? It’s really odd lol.

And how come we never see other Vulcans ever say anyone’s full name?

I just think personally the Spock thing happened on TOS because it was TOS and they were still figuring things out for the character. But it basically been dropped with every other Vulcan character since. But I’m not disagreeing with people, it is odd they only have one name but the fact no one officially has a second name still goes to the point. If they wanted to give Vulcans a second name, they could’ve done it like the other dozens of species IN canon even if they don’t use it. And people wouldn’t be in nerd rage about it now lol.

The naming thing makes about as much sense as giving all Vulcans the same haircut.
Trek often uses alien races as representations of archetypes. They generally show very little diversity among members of the same species.
So far we have known that Vulcans use a single given name in conversation. Previous Trek writers have suggested before that Vulcans have additional parts to their names, which they don’t normally use.
“Spock” will still be “Spock” on Strange New Worlds. I’m pretty sure characters won’t suddenly refer to him by this new name. So it’s a small part of new backstory for Spock that won’t fundamentally change the character.

Colloquially expressed but essentially correct.

I don’t think there’s a language called “Kenyan.” Most Kenyans speak English or Bantu Swahili.

You are correct. I added more detail from a different source. As for the original version saying “Kenyan,” you’ll have to correct David Mack about that one, that was based on his own author’s note.
https://davidmack.pro/writing/harbinger/authors-annotations-stv1/#5

Mack’s notes state that the name is Kenyan, which it is. So he’s right.

Are you just on here to argue with people? 😂 …sheesh!

Can’t speak to Noyota, but in Uhura is Swahili for Freedom, according to the writer’s guidelines for TOS.

Actually, “uhuru” is the Swahili word for freedom. So they based her name on it but changed it slightly, probably to make it sound more feminine.

I heard his name is going to be Cosmo.

Perfect.

We all know his first name is Dr.

If Spock’s name isn’t from some hidden notes cache from Dorothy or Gene(s) then get that noise out of there :}

Pulling stuff from an old novel though – I can get behind that. We’ve hardly ever heard Vulcan first names though so it seems odd but whatever…

I guess now we know what precedes that “I am simply Spock” line in the trailer lol

What’s actually preposterous is the notion that a starship captain wouldn’t know the names of the parents of his first officer and best friend, even with one of them being the Vulcan ambassador. Or the fact that, after two centuries, humanity is still completely in the dark as to the mating habits of its closest ally.

Now, I happen to love both of those episodes, and highly regard their authors, regardless. But is it possible that some of the bad writing and foresight actually happened fifty years ago, and can’t all be laid at the feet of Alex Kurtzmann?

There’s a difference between an inadvertent plot hole and intentionally hiring Roto-Rooter to pockmarck your backyard.

Besides, do you think every captain in in US Navy knows the name of the UK ambassador to Washington?

Neat, I guess. I’ve never known Vulcans to have surnames however. But my knowledge of TOS is very limited.

That’s the thing, they never really given Vulcans surnames. The ONLY reason we are talking about this is because of one line that was said in one episode. You take that away, it’s never discussed if Vulcans have anything but one name. I just assumed he was called Mr. Spock because he lived on Earth and they just gave him the ‘Mr’ because it’s what humans uses as a title.

Is there a gif option on this thing? I want to use the one that has Michael Scott saying, “Don’t like that.”

“Child of S’chn (pronounced skon), child of Solkar” is Spock’s lineage in TSFS.

That was Sarek’s. Spock would be child of Sarek, child of Skon ? I like Skon=S’chn. Curious where T’Gai might come from.

I don’t recall, are there any male Vulcan’s with names starting with ” T’ “? Could that be a female lineage? Maybe it’s Sarek’s mother? You know how they are toward humans given Spock’s interaction with the high council in ST09, Vulcan/human interaction in Enterprise, etc. They might not use his human mother’s name or maybe it’s just a given Vulcan middle name that Sarek and Amanda liked. Maybe it’s the equivalent of “Terry/Teri, Taylor, etc.

Yes. Tuvok.

That’s Sarek’s lineage. It goes Spock, Sarek, Skon (S’chn is not the spelling), Solkar.

This was my takeaway from TSFS. Vulcan second names are like Icelandic second names, or Russian/Ukrainian patronymics: they follow the father (at least in the case of males), and change each generation.

Perhaps S’chn is indeed a transliteration of “Skon” and “T’gai” either refers to a matrilineal lineage (e.g., Amanda took some kind of honorary Vulcan name) or is the equivalent of “-vich” or “-soon/dottir.” I like this theory.

Well, in ST III, wasn’t Sarek “Sarek, child of Skon, child of Solkar”? It would imply that Sarek or Spock is the given name. The other is the family name and was not mentioned in English.

Ishmael!?! Here Come The Brides!

I wondered how long it would take for the latest ‘nuTrek’ group to slap their revisionism on SNW to try making it their very own creation.

That statement doesn’t even make sense since this isn’t revisionism.

Like the 75% looking Enterprise isn’t KurtzSpeak for we’ll do what we damned well want?

Yes, kmart, it sure is. I should have known they wouldn’t leave well enough alone and start tinkering (and revealing to the public) their tinkering, as soon as they felt the opportunity.

Revisionism, rewriting, whatever. It’s the same old same old nuTrek, after all.

I’m out. Lorna Dune, have fun. kmart, you know where to find me.

I think it’s cool that they’re using something from the novels to add to the characters. Didn’t Una’s name come from the novels, too? After bringing humor and fun to Picard this season I have a lot of faith that this show will be a return to form for the franchise.😎👍

I say why create something that no sane fan will ever say or remember?
Spock is Spock, end of discussion. They need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel over there

No one is reinventing anything. TOS acknowledged twice that he had a second name. And S’chn T’gai was established decades ago.

A named used in a novel from 1985 that a small group of people even know if today, I wouldn’t exactly call that being alpha canon.
And from the recent update the show is back petaling on the name, which in my perspective goes to show that some things should remain a mystery

Because maybe it will be used on the actual show? I don’t know why people aren’t at least considering this. I’m guessing M’Bega (poor guy no one cares about his name lol) full name will be used on the show and I suspect the same for Spock. If they put in the effort to put it on a poster at a convention, that suggest to me at least they are preparing people to hear it on the show itself.

Well, based on the update to the article, it sounds like the names were actually put onto the posters by mistake. So much for extra effort ;-)

LOL yeah sadly sounds about right with this group. ;) That’s really hilarious. Some are suggesting they are just trying to back track after the nerd rage over it, but it could’ve just been a mistake. Who knows?

If it was, I don’t think it will stop the complaining that much since they are still saying Spock does have another name and sort of implies we will learn both his and M’Bega’s new names at some point. But we’ll see I guess.

I still say keep them as one name and save yourself the grief.

Exactly.
And just because Spock’s full name has yet to be revealed doesn’t mean that they INTEND to reveal it.

Sane fan?? I’ve no objection at all to background details being fleshed out

I wonder if part of this is Kurtzman’s misconception that a major percentage of Treksters take the novels seriously and this is something that would please devout fans. Most of the people I encounter online who take the Star Trek novels seriously tend to be … Star Trek novelists. No offense intended to The Pandronian Pact series which made a nice crossover with The CHOAM Recursions cycle.

What I suspect is there are parts of Beta canon they like and want to use to develop characters and story lines just like what Lucasfilm did with the EU. They took the stuff they liked such as Grand Admiral Thrawn who came from a novel and became a big part of Rebels and the future Ashoka show.

And they know the overwhelming majority of fans don’t read the novels, mostly because they aren’t canon. Same time, there are former novelists working on these shows now and they probably use whatever background from past books in stories if its appropriate just like Control was used in Discovery from the Section 31 novels. My guess is that was because the writer of those books, David Mack, has consulted on the new shows and wrote the first Discovery novel so the ideas flows both directions.

There’s also simply the notion that they’ll mine anything for ideas, and the books exist. There are quite a few gems tucked away in various novels over the decades, but there’s also a lot of garbage.

Although I would kill to see an on-screen production of How Much for Just the Planet?

An exchange that SHOULD have been in the book:
Q: Do you know what you get when you feed a Vulcan too much?
A: A fat Vulcan?

Or,Maybe, somebody assumed the names were canon and, used them on the posters by mistake.

I believe spocks first name is his family name. Like how the bajorans put their family name first like Kira nerys. S’hn T’Gai Spock and S’hn T’Gai sarek.

Love the names and can’t wait to see the show

I’m glad to see them drawing from old non-canon stuff into the series. I would like to see them adapt a couple of Pike Novels – Vulcan’s Glory and Where Sky Meets Sea.

V’sG is where Spock calls his girlfriend’s killer a ‘bastard’ right? Yeah, DC writing or not, that was not a good reading experience.

When fans start complaining about Spock getting an additional name, there must be something awfully wrong. I know what some of you are thinking right now… Secret Hideout has “burnt” you so many times it seems to be your prerogative to be very sensitive about everything they do… Coming from “those people”, SNW can only be a massive, massive let-down… because that’s what they do… professionally: disappointing the fandom…

No, folks, you are doing that to yourselves! You think your headcanon, your anticipated outcome, your priorities and preferences matter more than the actual on-screen franchise. Spock isn’t supposed to have a first name, because you suppose that. Khan shouldn’t have a relative aboard the NCC-1701 because you think he shouldn’t. Michael shouldn’t whisper so much because you don’t want her to.

I’ve also had my fair share of issues with NuTrek, starting with technological inconsistencies, the gruesome imagery of the early seasons, the very existence of animated comedy in Trek etc… but ultimately, complaining about it doesn’t change one bit. After all, the franchise is larger than life and my headcanon is moot and insignificant… I may not be happy with everything I see but I must try making sense of it. I do not have the luxury carrying my own expecations in a monstrance because I am not the one in charge of that franchise. And when it comes to “my ego v the franchise” I must force myself to put back on mine own self…

But that is something everyone has to decide for themselves. All I say is that I deem it very very hard if you are not even able to live with Spock getting an additional name… Because I can promise you one thing: there will be a lot more delicate, controversial details in that show that are going to rip your headcanon apart… It is your choice what to make of it. Embrace it or loath it…

Nobody is saying that they “are not even able to live with Spock getting an additional name” – that’s a bit melodramatic. But a longtime consumer and supporter of this product has the prerogative to react to something a writer comes up with by saying “hmmm, bad choice.” Everybody has their own notion of what constitutes good Trek or bad Trek, and can celebrate the former and criticize the latter. Just because the powers-that-be release it doesn’t mean you have to accept it; calling all fans of Spock’s Brain

“Get a life!”

This reminds me of a keychain I used to have that contained spoken phrases by Mr.T and in one phrase he said “first name Mr, middle name period, last name T”. I always envisioned Mr Spock to be similar.

If Roddenberry didn’t see the need to give Spock a first name who are these hacks to think they can?