The fifth episode of the new series Star Trek: Strange New Worlds arrives this week and we have details, new photos, a trailer, and a clip to get you started.
“Spock Amok”
Strange New Worlds episode five is titled “Spock Amok,” a twist on the classic TOS episode title “Amok Time.” The episode was written by Henry Alonso Myers and Robin Wasserman. It was directed by Rachel Leiterman. Myers has previously teased this episode as a “romantic comedy.” The episode debuts on Paramount+ on Thursday, June 2nd.
Synopsis:
It’s a comedy of manners when Spock has a personal visit in the middle of Spock and Captain Pike’s crucial negotiations with an unusual alien species.
New photos:
Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring and Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock and Gia Sandhu as T’Pring of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring and Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring and Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock and Gia Sandhu as T’Pring of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Jess Bush as Nurse Chapel of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Jess Bush as Nurse Chapel of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Jess Bush as Nurse Chapel of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Melissa Navia as Ortegas of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Gia Sandhu of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: Marni Grossman/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock and Gia Sandhu as T’Pring of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Gia Sandhu as T’Pring of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock and Gia Sandhu as T’Pring of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Ethan Peck as Spock of the Paramount+ original series STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS. Photo Cr: John Medland/Paramount+ ©2022 CBS Studios. All Rights Reserved.
Trailer:
The trailer is available on Facebook and Instagram.
View this post on Instagram
Clip:
The latest episode of The Ready Room includes a clip of Spock and an ancient Vulcan ritual [at 25:59]. [Also available internationally at startrek.com]
New episodes of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds debut on Thursdays exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., Latin America, Australia and the Nordics. The series airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave in Canada. In New Zealand, it is available on TVNZ, and in India on Voot Select. Strange New Worlds will arrive via Paramount+ in select countries in Europe when the service launches later this year, starting with the UK and Ireland in June.
All episode photos by Marni Grossman/Paramount+
Canonistas are going to get plenty of migraines with this one I’m sure.
It was already confusing with them getting engaged in the first episode. I also just rewatched “Amok Time” and at times it sounds like they were betrothed (well more than a betrothal but less than a wedding) to each other as a children as part of an arranged marriage at a later date. But the ritual is identified as a wedding ceremony, ending in the fight to the death, T’Pring talks about now being divorce, even though they didn’t actually get married. I guess that’s where the writers felt there was wiggle room, because that itself was confusing.
But if the ceremony as a children meant they were already sort of married, then why did they need to be engaged after seemingly dating? Are they going to claim that “Amok Time” is a vow renewal that ends in divorce?
I can’t see the clip as I’m not in the US, so I don’t know if that provides any insights.
“But if the ceremony as a children meant they were already sort of married, then why did they need to be engaged after seemingly dating? Are they going to claim that “Amok Time” is a vow renewal that ends in divorce?”
If they were betrothed as children — that doesn’t mean they were “already sort of married,” does it? Nor does it preclude dating each other. Why couldn’t it just be a long engagement?
In “Amok Time,” Spock refers to T’Pring as his wife, then later talks about the “marriage party.” Kirk is confused, and Spock explains that the ceremony when they were seven was “less than a marriage, but more than a betrothal.”
It’s a Vulcan relationship that doesn’t have an equivalent in our culture; they’re mostly married but still need to finalize it. The seriousness of this relationship can be determined by the fact that T’Pring can’t break off the relationship unless she calls for a fight to the death.
That’s actually WAY more married than I am to my husband of 31 years, because I could just go to court if I wanted to rid myself of him; I don’t have to have him killed. So Vulcan marriages are way more binding than a human marriage is, which I guess makes sense, given the potential deadliness of pon farr.
The thing is, there *has* to be a way out of this quasi-betrothal. Sarek married a human. He broke whatever betrothal commitment he made when young. (Or alternatively, he had no such commitment, but he has been portrayed as a traditionalist in some ways.)
His first wife was a Vulcan priestess, who was Sybok’s mother.
It’s an alien ceremony where not all the exact details got precisely laid out in Amok Time. Our “human” concepts of marriage, bonding, and the ceremonies around it may not have exact Vulcan equivalents.
If the writers can take advantage of that, and write a good story in the ample “wiggle room” they may have, then I’m all for it.
My sense is that wiggle room (and downright inconsistencies) in many TOS scripts should be embraced.
Yes, fans and Treklit authors have coloured in and interpreted many of the gaps and inconsistencies, and these interpretations have become more than just beta-canon or Head-canon to many.
But the franchise needs to grow and have fresh creativity. To do that, it’s past time to engage new younger audiences with the tropes and memes of TOS that have pervaded mainstream popular culture.
I have to disagree hard with those who keep saying that SNW should avoid the very things that will help attract and engage newcomers. Or, that another era or a reboot would have avoided problems. It needs to be Prime Universe and it needs to be this time period or TOS will be come an archival, largely culturally irrelevant rarely seen piece like the original 1950s Superman television series.
What do under 49s know of original series Trek? the Gorn, tribbles, the seven notes from the theramin, beam me up, Spock fighting and the pulsating duh-duh, duh-duh, duh-duh, Deh-duh theme from Amok Time.
So, SNW needs to include these things to do it’s job of saving the franchise from ageing out.
As a frustrated young commentator on the SNW subReddit put it over older fans’ reactions to Nurse Chapel, those who saw TOS in first run are in their 60s, and the older millennials who saw the 90s series in first run as kids and teens are hitting their 40s. This show is reaching the kids of millennials.
To get that generation, show need to have young people acting like young people. TOS Kirk was in his 30s and acted like it. SNW also need to enable fresh, and sometimes challenging takes on the elements of TOS and other series that have become touchstones for the franchise in popular culture.
Well put.
Quite true, and very well said. We older fans are still allowed to mourn the passing of things we loved, though…
I understand completely.
I hope that this episode is one that you can enjoy and love as much as the first four.
My concern is that some of us old ones go over the top with vehemence, volume and repetition of expressions and justifications of disappointment.
This board sometimes feels like some of us are determined to convince others that they should be disappointed too, and that if others don’t share the dissatisfaction, they just never understood TOS or the 90s shows “correctly.”
To be fair, this board has been doing that since 2009 lol. This isn’t exactly a new thing at this point. And I said this before to you, it’s nothing wrong to discuss issues, that’s why message boards exist as long as people are civil and open minded about it. But yes it’s when people go too far with it or expect you to hate something as much as they do, don’t consider a particular show or movie canon or you’re not a ‘real’ fan when it gets eye rolling.
Tiger2, the thing that I find frustrating is that people here seem to think that there’s no cost and nothing lost if it’s done as a reboot.
Quite the opposite actually. What it means is that new fans have marginal to nil incentive to go back and watch the legacy library.
DC has had a completely different approach with a multiverse and reboots. It reboots comic universes completely every couple of decades, and has alternate universes running concurrently. But DC is concerned about selling its new comics, movies and TV series and less of its value proposition comes from getting eyes on its old ones.
Star Trek is built as a franchise on the continuing appeal of its library. And what the average 22 year old know of that library – as far as TOS is concerned is from memes and other pop culture references – Kirk vs the reptile guy in the rubber suit, Sheldon playing the 7 theme notes on a theremin in Big Bang Theory, the thumping theme music and the fight in Amok time, tribbles.
So, any marketing or branding strategy that steps around these just to make us old fans cozy, and not challenge genuine gaps between the raindrops would simply be bad brand management for the future.
Last thought, Shakespeare’s plays have endured for centuries because we allow each generation to interpret what’s on the page differently. As a student, what made. English Lit fun was precisely that the text could be interpreted so very many different ways. Again, it’s a feature and not a bug.
“Quite the opposite actually. What it means is that new fans have marginal to nil incentive to go back and watch the legacy library.”
I just don’t know if I buy this argument though. The Kelvin movies ARE a reboot. When it’s all said and done, that’s what those movies are. And I have seen MANY people say they got into watching the shows after first being introduced to those films. In fact, I have always defended those movies to all the whiners and reminded them even if they think they are blasphemy to all things Star Trek, look how many new people have been introduced to Star Trek because of them? Sure not everyone who watches one suddenly wants to watch TOS, TNG or VOY but it’s a great gateway.
To me, I think it’s much ado about nothing. We live in the internet age. Exactly how is making a reboot going to discourage people to watch the other shows when they are all sitting in the same place? Its not the 1980s anymore, you have access to everything in one place. If they watch one show, then they will probably just click on the others to see if they like those; especially if other new shows are still being made. Most people will just watch an old show if others tell them its a good show. I don’t know why they would not watch it just because one show takes place in a different universe. Are people discouraged to give Enterprise a shot after they watch TNG because it takes place 200 years before that show does?
And I want to make this also clear; a reboot doesn’t mean the Prime universe disappears. You can STILL make shows for that one too obviously. It’s just to give things a little more diversity and with a reboot it makes things easier for new fans to start with. Now all that said, I think SNW is fine in terms of introducing new audiences, but it will also get more confusing for them if they have to reconcile what they see in this show with TOS if they decide to watch that later. But to be frank no more than what they had to with Discovery either. But you already know my feelings on that show. ;)
I would point out that the point “Star Trek is built as a franchise on the continuing appeal of its library” is not actually true, otherwise, they would have remastered at the very least Star Trek: Voyager, which was the most-watched Trek show on Netflix (bringing in those younger viewers) before the license was revoked and the shows made exclusive to P+.
AND, the fact that they are iterating the IP with new show after new show effectively dilutes the library for newer/younger audiences. The library exists largely for the legacy fans who are getting older or dying off — and to provide material for content creators to scrape or remix for the company’s latest offerings.
To me, the risks outweigh the rewards in telling, essentially, prequels to some of the most popular episodes and moments in franchise history. BUT, it’s *easier* to do that, and the story’s already half written for them, and so that’s why they do it. “Amok Time” told us everything we needed to know about Spock and the Kirk-Spock-McCoy friendship, but we’re getting “Spock Amok” because it colorfully fills out a 10-episode order and could keep or add new P+ subscribers. It does cheapen what came before if you’ve watched both and adds nothing to catalogue if you haven’t.
The value proposition for a new viewer attracted to Star Trek via Strange New Worlds who is enjoying the new episodes is not to then go and watch a 60 year old episode of TV with characters they don’t recognize in a storytelling mode that is slower and different from modern storytelling — it’s to keep watching Strange New Worlds and maybe try Discovery which is set in the same universe — and the show that P+ offers up to watch next at the end of a SNW.
“Tiger2, the thing that I find frustrating is that people here seem to think that there’s no cost and nothing lost if it’s done as a reboot.”
The more important issue here: the age of reboots is OVER. Rebooting is an aughties thing. Even the big CBM franchises have chosen to bring their various incarnations together again. The Ghostbusters franchise has downright ignored their reboot, so has Halloween.
I expect the next movie to bring the KT to an end by remerging it with the PT and Pine and cast will continue their adventures in the Primeverse inbetween TMP and TWOK.
Rebooters had their shot…
Uh, they just rebooted Batman this year and Dune last year. Obviously James Bond will be getting another reboot and probably its biggest one yet. A new Firestarter just came out like two weeks ago. Aliens is being rebooted for the second time by Hulu. BSG is also getting it’s second reboot on Peacock. Babylon 5 is also getting a reboot.
Also Mad Max Fury Road, Tomb Raider, Spider-Man, Godzilla, are also more reboots that came out within the last ten years.
And there are more reboots on TV than ever: MacGyver, Hawaii 5-0, Magnum P.I., Equalizer, Fresh Prince of Bell Air and How I Met y=Your Mother are all just off the top of my head. There are probably more. I think the rebooters are all still getting their shot dude. ;)
Uh, they just rebooted Batman this year and Dune last year. Obviously James Bond will be getting another reboot and probably its biggest one yet. A new Firestarter just came out like two weeks ago. Aliens is being rebooted for the second time by Hulu. BSG is also getting its second reboot on Peacock. Babylon 5 is also getting one.
Also Mad Max Fury Road, Tomb Raider, Spider-Man, Godzilla, are more reboots that came out within the last ten years.
And there are more reboots on TV than ever: MacGyver, Hawaii 5-0, Magnum P.I., Equalizer, Fresh Prince of Bell Air and How I Met Your Mother are all just off the top of my head. There are probably more. I think the rebooters are all still getting their shot dude. ;)
And I don’t think that idea with the Kelvin movies will ever happen. Again, I don’t know why it’s so hard for fans to accept those movies simply live in their own universe for 13 years now? And based on this theory, two different Kirks will now be running around in the Prime Universe? Why is that even necessary?
I prefer to see the Kelvin films as not a lot different from the non-canonical versions of Star Trek in novels or even the third-party versions that used to get made.
That’s fine but that’s not what they are. They are 100% canon as every other movie and TV show; hence Picard. Ironically it kind of goes to my point and that is if any show or movie veers too far off of canon as some fear SNW is starting to do, then certain fans will just not consider it canon after awhile.
And as I also said, the point was for NEW fans to get adopted into Star Trek with the original characters. Just with new stories without the baggage of a century of canon other fans claimed was holding Star Trek back for first timers.
But hey, Quentin Tarantino basically saw it the same way. (sigh)
I’m with Tiger2 on this. I feel that if new fans like this show I think there is an incentive to go back and look at the originals be it a reboot or a prime show that adheres to canon. Honestly I think there might be an issue if they say it’s prime. Newbies who watch the show then feel like checking out TOS they would be in for a a bit of an eye opener. They would then see all the things that were changed. Now these aren’t hardened fans like many here and such inconsistencies probably won’t affect them but it certainly won’t help things. In the end, if the show we are seeing is the version they really want to make then the best solution for all is to say it is a reboot. People who want SNW to adhere to TOS canon can’t complain and people who like the show as is will still get their show as is. And newbies who might get drawn in are still likely to check out TOS or the other shows knowing that SNW is just a different take on the era.
I don’t know if you or others ever seen this video on Youtube before but it’s Irish people watching Star Trek for the first time and their reactions to it are hilarious. They obviously know NOTHING about the show and it’s fun to watch them watch it. And they actually show them the episode Arena.
But I bring it up because after they watch Arena they then show them the opening episode of Discovery and you can see how confusing it is for them to associate the two in the same time period. The whole video is fun and only about 4 minutes long. But their reaction to Discovery starts at around 2:25.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZFh-PDEwRo
That would be a typical reaction by non-fans if you are watching both shows for the first time. Now sure, most will get over it the more they watch but let’s not kid ourselves, for most, trying to reconcile these shows as all being part of the same timeline would be off putting anyway; regardless if you call it a reboot or not and why I don’t think it really matters. If most like one show enough, they will simply try out another in time and just judge each one on their own merits as most new fans do today.
Yes, some of the older fans seem kinda crazy, but then, some subset of people on the internet always seem crazy. :-)
Not sure I’m following your logic there. In order to attract new fans they must do remixes of old things? I don’t know if that’s a requirement.
I’m just thinking back to when TNG got me hooked on Trek back in the 90s. I couldn’t care less whether or not they were doing riffs on TOS (thankfully they kept those to a minimum). I was there for the stories and the adventure of the week. The variety is what attracted me, not references to Kirk and the gang. Who thinks of cultural touchstones when you’re ten years old? You just want a good story with some cool weird aliens, right?
But maybe young people watch TV differently now, I don’t know.
Yeah, to me it’s another reason why I don’t particular love prequels or going backwards, I think you can just go forward and build new audiences that way. They been doing it since 1987 and seems to work just fine. But I completely love having SNW and it was a no-brainer to do.
And most people who start with one of the shows eventually get around to the others. Not everyone has to like every show either. And TOS isn’t going anywhere. They spent $500+ million rebooting that show with a set of new movies. That was ironically the point, to get new fans into that show that way. And supposedly another one is coming next year. It’s not the same universe but for new viewers, it doesn’t matter. That was the OTHER irony; people complained the prime universe was getting too complex and cumbersome for new people trying to understand all the canon and minutiae of a 700+ hour multi-century universe. So they wiped all that away so new and younger fans can just start fresh; only for some of the old fans to complain that they really do want their Star Trek as complex and cumbersome as possible so here we all are again back in the prime universe.
And none of these shows are fading. Thanks to streaming the old shows seem more popular today because they are accessible everywhere and building a new set of fans. Some will just gravitate to certain shows if not all of them.
Yeah, I mean, SNW did an episode a few weeks back with a mystery involving a living comet and new aliens, plus we learned quite a bit more about Uhura (finally). And no blatant references to TOS from the pop culture realm were needed, really. Not a Klingon, a Gorn, or a Mr. Khan in sight.
I don’t know how that went down with new fans, but it seemed like a great direction to me.
Yes, youth and young adults have a very different experience of television now.
I have a bit of a different lens on all of this as an older parent with teens. They take up media so differently than we did, or even millenials.
Yes it’s a sample of our kids and their school and sports training mates in one place, but it lines up with what I see in media trend analysis and information about keeping kids safe and media aware on good sites like Common Sense Media.
Our kids have in many cases known the memes and tropes of various franchises long before they know the actual content.
Part of this is because the actual content is targeted far above their age level when they are in elementary school. So their first exposure is apps and kid targeted computer games, learn-to-read books, toys, and memes.
Our kids had SW toys and knew the memes long before they could see the movies. One of ours loves SW, but it was really uphill getting them to actually watch the original trilogy even once they had access through television or streaming to binge all of it.
This is why Prodigy needs to link to Voyager and other 90s content the way Clone Wars provides an entry point for SW fans that actually motivates kids to move onto the cinematic features.
So, what’s the Star Trek brand to teens and 20s now. It’s the memes and gifs that have travelled into popular culture. These are often the hook to get someone to try a series on a streamer.
Yes, there are the new people who post the “Where to I start with Star Trek question?” on various social media and get bombarded by old fans and completists to “Start with TOS and go with release order.”
The streaming data from Netflix show us that’s not actually how it works for the majority of new viewers. Voyager, especially the Borg-heavy episodes are most popular.
Everyone knows the Picard facepalms. Most can recognize the Borg as the big bads of Trek. Many know Seven-of-Nine giving a Borgish sneer.
But instead of using that, Picard season one and two burnt through a lot of the hooks that could add value to the franchise. It’s no wonder someone above insisted that the final season would bring back the original TNG cast.
I’m not surprised that decisions were taken to bring in the most famous images from TOS into SNW.
So the fight scene in Vulcan from Amok Time. Gorn!!! Tribbles in the Short Treks.
These are the building blocks of popular understanding of Trek that goes beyond the geeky niche.
Of course these have to be used and enriched and preserved for the new generation of viewers. They can’t be frozen in the glass of an earlier generation’s head canon. They also can’t have their IP value burnt through the way Chabon did with the legacy characters of Icheb and Hugh.
I see it as a plus that the franchise IP including the memed images and legacy characters is finally being carefully exploited, husbanded and extended. The powers that be wouldn’t be doing a good job managing the value of the franchise otherwise.
Okay, that’s a dynamic marketing plan, and it can certainly get viewers to the screens. Whether it’s needed for every new episode of Star Trek, though, remains an open question in my mind.
If a story contains elements solely meant to invoke memes and the like, then it becomes less of a story at that point, doesn’t it? It’s being interrupted by a commercial.
Not every episode needs to hark back to a meme or gif, or be likely to go viral with new ones.
The classic memes are part of the value of the franchise IP though. They are free advertising for Star Trek.
They are a draw for new audiences, and they need to appear. This means to find a way to reinterpret what’s been onscreen before to make it possible.
All to say that the arguments here that they could and should referencing the most culturally impactful memes or tropes in Trek just to avoid canon nitpicks don’t make strategic or financial sense.
SNW got the green light largely due to fan supper and advocacy, but it’s not the hard core fans that watch everything that pushed it to the top of the social media based “demand ratings” from Parrot Analytics.
To be a hit, SNW needs to increase the audience, drawing back older 90s show fans but also Generation Z.
Good stories and content will hold the audience, but what draws the audience in is very different in a streaming era.
it sounds very much to me like you are endorsing reboots as the thing that will link the viewers to the older material.
As I said before, I don’t believe that has any advantage in that department over making a true prequel or other Prime Universe set show that actually adheres to the established rules.
My experience with my kid and his friends is that he and them are just not interested in Trek at all and these new shows aren’t grabbing them. Of course, my lack of an endorsement of these shows doesn’t help but he wasn’t all that interested in Trek to begin with. Unlike you I am not as connected to potential younger viewers as yourself.
There was no theremin in TOS’ score, though. IT’s fun in SNW (and I’d like more) but it wasn’t in TOS.
That’s right, it was actually an electric violin in the early episodes to replicate that unearthly sound, but they remixed with the vocals later.
Theramin or electric violin sound better than the vocals in my view, but most people don’t distinguish them.
If what you say is true, and I’m not saying it’s not there is a certain logic there… Then they really do need to make sure they adhere to the canon. Be as consistent as possible with TOS. Yet they aren’t doing that. They are changing things up however they see fit but still trying to tell us this is prime. I do not believe for one moment that TOS needs to be “undone” for the franchise to not “age out.”
That said… I still think the show would have gotten a better reception had they just said this is a complete reboot. That SH is considering this to be the pick up from the original pilot and everything that came after does not exist as far as this show is concerned.
Everyone should go an actually rewatch Amok Time, in full. There are a LOT of assumptions being made by “canonistas” which aren’t actually in the episode. Like, Nurse Chapel didn’t blurt out “NO, I’ve never heard you were married!” She said nothing. She was just aghast. That’s not so hard to interpret for modern writers as reaction due to long unrequited love or return of old estranged rival lover (who knows where T’Pring SNW story goes), not necessarily surprise that T’Pring exists. Kirk and McCoy were surprised… but then of course they are NOT on SNW.
And the whole story about what the “betrothal more than a marriage” is or how often T’Pring and Spock have seen each other… That’s pure speculation. Amok Time gives no real clues about it and certainly no canon-level words.
I would go as far as to say that it’s not even clear that Nurse Chapel was not aware of the concept of pon farr. In fact, you can just as validly assume (if you are in the mood for assuming), that McCoy figured out that Spock was in mortal danger because Nurse Chapel told him about it.
The solidly stated canon of Amok Time is that Kirk and McCoy were not aware of pon farr, nor aware that T’Pring was Spock’s wife, nor of Kali Fee ritual (sp?). Beyond that, there is plenty of gaps to fill in.
I’m going to be honest, if this is going to be how every episode has to be analyzed with such a fine tooth comb just to say technically they didn’t break canon, then it’s going to feel tiring soon.
And frankly, the longer the show goes, things like this will only get bigger. I don’t think any of it is a huge deal, especially since so far the show is doing way more right than wrong. But the ‘well he didn’t say he WASN’T married before’ type of arguments just doesn’t really work for me. A poster said it in another thread, it’s the original intent of the story that matters to some people. No one knew Spock even had a relationship, much less married in Amok Time. Chapel doesn’t even know who T’Pring is in that episode. To me, it feels very disingenuous to pretend people on TOS knew anything about her at all; more so if the characters on SNW do learn he’s married or engaged (and they may not). But does it really bother me, no, not really. Spock having a sister bothered me, so compare to that, this is nothing lol.
And I’m not saying you’re wrong. And if people can only enjoy the show by having this type of head canon, then fine. I just won’t pretend it’s not breaking canon, because frankly it is. But none of it is a huge issue since I accepted a long time ago it was going to happen.
It will be very funny when Cadet Uhura is somehow smack dab in the middle of the action and everyone crushes “canonistas” for pointing out how in “Amok Time” she asks, “Oh, she’s lovely, Mr. Spock. Who is she?”
Anyway, at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter, this is all make believe, and there’s a good chance most people will still remember the Shatner-Nimoy problematic Trek 50 years from now than they will the IP sludge made for a long-forgotten streamer. These SNW writers want to make their bones swimming in the wake of better writers. More power to them. It’s a tough business.
As I been pointing out, the show JUST started and people are already doing this ridiculous head canon dance to make it fit. I think people have to just at least be honest about it and that the show is breaking canon. Yes, they are trying to do it in a way where it doesn’t feel like they are, but they are. No one knew Spock had a wife in TOS because no one was suppose to know, period. T’Pring was a complete enema to everyone on that ship And if you are trying to reconcile things this this early on, I can ONLY imagine how bad it’s going to be once Kirk himself shows up.
I understand people really like the show and just defending it against the people who think its making a mockery of TOS. But that battle is not going to be won. So either fans will just accept it for what the show is or they won’t. But since it looks like the overwhelming majority accepts it, its not a big deal. The canon stuff CAN put some fans off something if it’s a big enough issue, ie, Khan and STID; but nothing has been anything close to that so far IMO. Yes people are saying what bothers them as they SHOULD, but I haven’t seen anyone scream here the show isn’t canon or they will no longer watch it over it…so far at least. That’s when people have to worry (and a lot of that did happen with Discovery).
I’m not happy with some of the choices in the show either, but overall they are fine. I don’t know why they need certain things in it that just makes their jobs harder frankly; but none of it surprises me either. As I said, it’s the same people who made Discovery. Yes they learned their lessons on some of that (at least SNW looks and feels 100% Star Trek…Discovery not so much in the beginning) but they still want to add their own stamp to the universe I guess.
The real issue seems to be most of the people making these shows today are huge Trek fanboys themselves. They grew up with these shows like we all did. At least the people making PIcard, SNW and definitely Lower Decks. So just like the fans do, they want to bring in certain legacy characters, species , story lines etc. I saw an interview Mike McMahan gave on YouTube at the beginning of LDS first season saying that if he could bring every Star Trek character that ever existed in the franchise on the show, he would. And I don’t think he’s joking lol. But it’s that attitude why the entire TNG cast is coming back on Picard. It’s why SNW even exists. As I been saying and will keep saying, eventually it will all come back because look who is running these shows. Fanboys basically. Same thing with all the Star Wars shows.
And I have NO problem with any of that and welcome most of it. But once you start going into old territory as they are all doing, you still have to do it in a way where it feels like its honoring what came before and not erasing it in some fans minds. And that seems to be a thin line depending on who you are ask.
I’m guessing that the SNW writing staff has considered all of these arguments and decided, at the end of the day, that the stories they want to tell will win over more potential new fans than the aging canonistas they may lose (though a fair chunk of those will complain and watch anyway). I make no judgements as to the final product, not having seen most of it besides the pilot and some clips on YouTube, but the online response seems to indicate that they’re on the right track.
I’m sure it’s all debated including everything that went on when Discovery started. But yeah that is the difference, SNW does feel like Star Trek in a way DIscovery didn’t when it first started. And giving fans something they haven’t had since Enterprise went off the air. So for many that will probably be enough..
I think you meant enigma, not enema :)
LOL, thanks!
You say, and they say, that the people making these shows are fans themselves but honestly the shows that are getting made don’t feel at all like they are being made by people who respect and love Trek. If feels like they don’t like the Trek that came before and want to make the Trek that THEY would have liked to see.
Again, there is nothing wrong with that. But if you are going to do that (and here it comes yet again) then make it a G.D. REBOOT!
I don’t know how you can really come to that conclusion looking at shows like Prodigy, Lower Decks and yes SNW. To me, these shows do feel like love letters to the franchise. And of course it’s going to feel a little different from classic Star Trek because it’s a different team from the Roddenberry/Berman era.
The prequels have more canon issues, but to be fair many fans felt the exact same way with Enterprise at the time and that was made by the same people running Trek for over a decade and multiple shows. But that show still had such a tough time with some fans. And people accused Berman and Braga of not respecting TOS enough (or just plain ignoring it) when that show first started. I never felt that way personally but I understood why others did. But then of course the same issues happened with the Kelvin movies and then Discovery. Now Enterprise and the Kelvin movies did win more fans over by that show’s fourth season and then Beyond, but by then a lot of people had checked out on both and we saw the results. Discovery is a different enigma (nailed it ;)) since it went from a prequel to sequel but yeah.
With SNW though, I think at the very least you can admit this is the strongest prequel out of the previous ones and does hold up the spirit of TOS pretty well. Yeah still some issues with it but it’s also still very very early.
Absolutely not. The strongest prequel was easily Enterprise. I know we only have 4 episodes to compare it to but right out of the gate SNW has been retconning and changing things up. Enterprise really didn’t. The only thing they did was alter the personality of the Vulcans some. Which did rub some the wrong way, I grant you. But compared to what SNW has done Enterprise’s Vulcan issue pales in comparison. Enterprise felt like it went out of their way to make the ship and sets updated for modern TV but still evoke a feel that it could evolve into what we saw on TOS. They did have the advantage of being over 100 years before which made the task easier. But it really felt like there was respect and care in the creation of everything they did. Yes, they did cross the canon line from time to time but I can’t think of something that that was so egregious that it completely turned me off to the show. It was normally a one time mistake that wasn’t returned to later. While the Xindi was never “supposed to happen” I don’t think that event altered anything we saw on TOS.
From my perspective if the SNW folks keep retconning and changing things up because what was canon hurts the story they want to tell then I honestly feel it is appropriate to question how much they respect or love the source material. There are easy ways around what they have done yet they opted to not do it. My earlier conclusion stands. I’m just not seeing respect here. At least not on Star Trek Discovery or SNW. It feels like Picard and Prodigy folks seem to care far more. I know there are crossovers in the production folks among the shows. Do the folks who work on the other shows care less for SNW? Are the voices from those who only work SNW the stronger voices in the room?
Well I was saying the prequel that holds up closest to TOS, not just the show with the least canon issues. But reading your post now, I guess you feel ENT holds up to the spirit of TOS better too. If so, I have to disagree with that at least but yes I do agree ENT did a much better job of being a prequel overall. It’s funny now how much that show was demonized by some at the time but it was the first prequel in the franchise. Now with so many, it feels like the one that honors its setting the best, but yes it was a century before TOS in a setting we knew almost nothing about, so it made their jobs much easier.
And unlike Discovery, they actually tried to make it a real prequel. ;)
“Spock having a sister bothered me, so compare to that, this is nothing lol.”
But even that is not so mind boggelin like real history twists/canon breaks as Hermann Göring having an unknown brother who worked for the resistance or Ludwig von Beethoven probably being black->take that Robert April.
But according to Star Trek, Burnham wasn’t ‘unknown’. Her and Spock had a relationship the whole time. We just later learned he never said anything because it’s…wait for it, classified. (sigh…Discovery)
That might’ve been a little more interesting (and credible) if he found out he had one later on.
I know in a strict sense the information about Albert Göring was not “classified” but to quote his wiki article there was almost the same effect: “He was shunned in post-war Germany because of his family name, and he died without any public recognition and received very little attention for his humanitarian efforts until decades after his death.” I recommend the wiki article, it is an interesting story not worth to be forgotten.
Well I took your advice and had a look and yes that is interesting. I knew nothing about it (but I didn’t know who Herman Goring was either) but it’s true, real life can be stranger than fiction…even stranger than Star Trek at those rare times. ;)
And it does go back to La’an still carrying Khan’s name after all these centuries but that’s for another thread.
There have been a number of bad creative takes. Like Spock’s adoptive sister. I don’t see how it violates canon but it just comes across as a really REALLY bad idea. Using the Guardian of Forever technically doesn’t violate canon but it was just another really REALLY bad idea. And there are a lot of those out there. On this show, giving La’an a lineage to THE Khan doesn’t violate canon but is a REALLY bad idea. And then of course, there was the mother of all bad ideas (and again, has nothing to do with canon violations) tuning what was potentially a fantastic character into nothing more than a one dimensional cartoonish mustache twirler. But to me the greatest canon mistake was using the Gorn as antagonists on SNW when it was clearly established in Arena that no one knew about them in any way shape or form leading up to the encounter. As a group that claims to be fans and know the show it showed a serious lack of knowledge of Star Trek. And, here it comes again, if they really felt they HAD to use the Gorn then the only solution was to make the show a reboot. It’s really the only way out of canon mistakes.
I’m glad it’s not a problem for you and glad that you are seeing the issues. I was obviously being naive because I was liking the bulk of what they were saying about this show before it aired. In the back of my mind I knew they would certainly stretch canon. But honestly I did not expect them to just rip it apart they way they have. But it seems to be happening in near every episode this season. Some things are much bigger issues than others but it IS a problem.
And I have to be honest… Any inconsistency on any Picard era show just doesn’t bug me like it does for anything in or near the Kirk era. I suspect it’s because my heart is more deeply entrenched in the Kirk era than the Picard era. I am perfectly able to accept small changes. Chapel being an entirely different person bugs me but it’s a change I can live with because she was never an essential character. I don’t like it but such a change wouldn’t ruin the show. But that is about as far as I’m willing to go when it comes to canon violations on something that is supposed to be a Prime set show. And using the Gorn is just too much.
OK, that’s all understandable, but to be honest I’m surprise many are surprised at the canon issues with SNW because we dealt with this with Discovery for two seasons and IMO, much much worse at that.
As I constantly like to remind people, the same team of people who made that show is now making SNW. Discovery was one crazy canon violation after another. Not just how off brand the show looked being in the TOS era but also the crazy advanced technology like the spore drive and Red Angel suit, creating a huge war with the Klingons, Section 31 being so widely known, again with the Klingons, discovering the MU so soon and on and on.
And DIS just had so many other problems because it didn’t FEEL like the spirit of TOS at all to me. It was closer to BSG/GOT type of show than a TOS/TNG vibe. I know that show had plenty of fans first season and for some because it was trying to do something different. But for others, it was a little TOO different. And yes, maybe it would’ve been different if they called it a reboot but I still think a lot of fans would’ve hated because it just did not feel like Star Trek like the other shows.
I guess the difference with Discovery is that it didn’t have any TOS characters as main characters so the canon violations was mostly toward the franchise as a whole where SNW it’s mostly about the TOS characters and their story lines. Which is worse will depend on your view obviously (although most would probably say both are just as bad). But if you’re asking me, Discovery did WAY more damage than SNW has done because it just ignored whole cloths of how that era looked and behaved. SNW bothers me but not at a deep level because it’s mostly just small retcons at the end of the day. Yes the Gorn wasn’t known to the Federation until Kirk ran into them but the Borg wasn’t originally known to the Federation until Q introduced them in TNG. But then both Voyager and Enterprise retcon that later.
So while I agree with you, it would be unfair to pretend SNW is doing anything differently than previous shows. And yeah, as I will continue to say its the same people who made Discovery who started off a very bad foot in terms of both visual and narrative canon. So when you look at it from that point of view (assuming you had problems with Discovery with those issues) SNW is still a breath of fresh air since it looks and feels so much more like TOS IMO. Discovery could’ve been thrown in any century and no one would’ve blink. In fact it feels just fine in the 32nd century lol.
Star Trek Discovery had issues, yes. But honestly that show was so very bad that the canon issues were the least of the problems. It was easy for me to overlook their canon issues because even if there were no canon issues (that the show was an official reboot for example) the show was still so incredibly bad on its own. I guess this is a bit of a backhanded compliment towards SNW because I don’t see the show as “bad” on it’s own. What is now killing it for me is the blatant disregard of Trek lore. And as I said before, it’s all the more frustrating because every single mistake they made could have been solved with very little effort.
I’m sure there would be a subset of fans who would complain about a reboot. But I honestly don’t think that set is all that huge that it would effect the subscriber #’s of P+. I’m not a super huge fan of reboots myself but I’ve seen it done enough that I’m thawing out to them. And KU Trek, as you said yourself, is essentially a reboot and I had no issues with what they did with them. Even STID I think had the right idea just executed it badly.
At any rate, it has been difficult for me to rally enjoy this show. It has been more frustrating than anything else. I still think the show has potential but if I were a betting man at this point I don’t think it’s going to meet it.
We agree on most of this, especially how bad I thought Discovery was; but better for me today if only a little better.
I think my canon issues with SNW are a lot smaller compared to just how much I’m enjoying the show overall. But I’m still waiting for it to fall flat on its face lol. After DIS and PIC I’ve just become so cynical I don’t know if I can believe SNW is going to be a home run; especially given how bad most Trek shows record are first season. But so far so good at least. Still nothing phenomenal, but they all been solid and very much in the vein of classic Star Trek at least. For me it’s like watching any episode of TOS, TNG, VOY or ENT. So I admit, I care more about getting the tone and stories right than canon at the moment. I obviously care about that and why I bring it up, but nothing so far that stops me from really enjoying the show either.
And yes it probably because I have been so disappointed with Discovery and Picard. And Picard more so for obvious reasons. I think that’s the reaction of a lot of fans right now IF they been disappointed with those two shows. And we know many have. SNW is just getting back to basics and that alone is great. I just don’t want people not to like the show because of a few canon issues. I have my issues with Discovery but it’s obviously not due to canon alone. They are now in another century and I still have my problems with it. Picard doesn’t have any real canon issues to speak of, the show just sucks unfortunately.
But yes we fully agree on the reboot situation. Obviously it would alienate some fans as the Kelvin movies did, but I think those are a small minority. People who hate the Kelvin movies don’t hate them for being in another universe, they just don’t like the popcorn and Star Warsy feel of them more than anything. And yes we’re ALL tired of supervillains with big ships wanting to destroy the Federation for reasons. It’s not the premise that people are put off by, it’s mostly just the stories themselves (not to mention the horrendous plot holes in them). If the stories were more intimate, dealt with exploration, a little more thoughtful, etc, people would like them more IMO. It’s why Beyond got a better reception because it actually tried to do those things, but for some too little too late I guess. Maybe the next one will go farther in that direction if it gets made.
But for new fans, most seem to love them BECAUSE they are not comparing them to the other 800 hours of Star Trek. They are just judging them solely on their own and why it works for them. That’s exactly WHY I think a reboot would be better for new fans. But I guess TPTB also recognize it’s really the old fans that keeps this franchise afloat and don’t want to rock the boat. So another reason why they will probably never reboot it completely.
It would be funny if the entire reason T’Pring is a recurring character now and they’ve built in this whole backstory to “Amok Time” is because the modern producers got creeped out by Nimoy Spock looking at a picture of little girl T’Pring in the original episode. “Wait — Spock was dying of horniness. Why was he looking at–??? No, no, no, we’ve got to correct that. Let’s have him hooking up with T’Pring off and on the whole time to recontextualize the picture as him just wishing for less complicated times.”
Actually if they had a problem with Spock looking at the T’Pring as a child photo then including her on SNW doesn’t help. It actually adds to that problem. If he has had regular contact with her then why pine away staring at the photo of her as a child? It actually makes the scene much more creepy.
Some, perhaps. To me this is a much smaller issue than the huge one the show did this season. One that I don’t have a real problem with.
I could care less but it does sometimes feel like the writers are going out of their way to throw certain stuff in more to show how clever they are in skirting canon without actually breaking it rather than simply trying to tell an interesting story without courting this kind of distraction. Maybe they think the canon arguments episodes like this invariably foster will lead to more word of mouth for the series.
It’s exactly this. Writing a unique, GOOD episode of Star Trek has ALWAYS been a difficult proposition. It’s its own genre of television writing. Very hard to do well. It is, however, MUCH easier to remix somebody else’s material and bend it into the shape of modern storytelling tropes and archetypical characters. Telling stories this way is much faster for the staff and clears through the executive approval process quickly, too.
Of course they will. Where’s the fun if they don’t?
Based on the episode description and clips, it seems that the “unusual alien species” might have an influence on Spock’s imagination. He wonders if marriage with T’Pring will ever work out because of her discomfort with his human heritage. Perhaps (without her meeting Uhura) she makes some kind of remark demeaning human beings and — under the alien influence — Spock’s mind constructs an imaginary kal-if-fee between his human and Vulcan legacies for her “affections.”
It will be an expert troll if that’s the case. I am kinda hoping they do this. Akelah Cooper and Henry Alonso Myers are such good writers that they deserve the benefit of the doubt, even from an old, miserable fan like me.
It’s only a matter of time before someone loses their mind that the replicators aren’t spitting out primary colored cubes of food for lunch.
“Canonistas are going to get plenty of migraines with this one I’m sure.”
They’re screwing with canon so much that even Pachelbel would be pissed.
“Ain’t I a stinker?”
-Bugs Bunny in “Duck Amuck”
Directed by Charles M. Jones, 1953
While I know the title is a play on Amok Time, every time I seen the words “Spock Amok”, “Duck Amuck” is the first thing that’s popped into my head. Kind of relieved that I’m not the only one.
We can only hope that it is an episode where Spock is stuck in a holodeck, and McCoy is trolling him by messing with the program. First he erases the tips of Spock’s ears, then he draws another Spock, etc.
Yes but will Spock say “You’re despicable!”
Talk about a quick clip.
Have to see that to understand it better.
Watching the clip, my interpretation would be that it’s a dream sequence on the part of Spock, not the actual event occurring in real time.
Yeah, it looks like a nightmare or a hallucination or something.
As I remember almost the whole episode of “Amok Time” was nothing but a fever dream of Spock and therefor also is known as “Space Fever”. So your interpretation would be a nice nod honouring that fact.
Are you from Europe? My understanding is that “Amok Time” was extensively re-edited for (I believe) Germany, making it a fever dream of Spock’s.
Yes, that is correct. The Germans recut the episode and changed the dialogue to get rid of the Sexual content and make it more suitable for children – those prude Germans. They also havely changed dialogue in other episodes like putting the eugenic wars around 2090 or renaming Spock’s mother to Emilie. Since it aired that way it is all canon to me ;)
WOW. The visuals look straight out of TOS in some of those shots. Impressive.
The music in the scene is also clearly derived from the famous combat theme from TOS.
Yes, it has to be.
Because that image and music is a gig that younger viewers know even if they have never watched any Star Trek at all.
They do but I find it amazingly inconsistent what they decide to adhere to and what they decide to chuck out the window. Seeing these things ultimately is frustrating because it shows that they are capable of making things work.
I am VERY nervous about what they’re doing with this episode, though I’d be much more so if the first four episodes had not been so superb. The writers have accumulated quite a bit of trust from me, but still … “Amok Time” is a hugely important episode to me, and I REALLY don’t want to see them undermine it or make fun of it. The writers have seemed very, very good so far, but oh, I am very anxious!
I agree that the writing has so far been pretty good. I too loved Amok Time but I do think that T’Pring’s point of view was missing. Spock’s fight scene looks like a subconscious battle over how hard it was for Spock to exist on Vulcan. A storyline that I think would be worth exploring a little bit more. I like how Chapel and Ortegas looks like they may be interacting in the bar. Given how blunt they both are it’s about time! The only scenes I am bit on the fence about is La’an and Number One. That has more to do with the writing of Number One. I feel they are struggling with her character.
This looks like it will be another great episode. I also love the classic TOS music in the clip!
Am I the only person who thinks Peck’s Spock ears look really fake and plastic?? This has never been a problem on Trek before, even back in the 1960’s. There’s been a few times when the light shines on them and they just…don’t look very convincing.
Yeah, the ears aren’t as good as they should be. They’re tilted too far back, and the tips aren’t long enough, so his ears look too wide and not long enough.
The ears don’t really bother me but the sideburns in the first few episodes have looked really fake and exaggerated, like they were penciled in and the makeup artist didn’t know how long to make them.
So, I assume that Chapel and Uhura just won’t meet or be aware of T’Pring in this episode?
There is a scene where Chapel and T’Pring are talking to each other directly on the planet.
Hmm. I’ll have to rewatch Amok Time, but I was under the impression that Chapel didn’t know that Spock was engaged.
LOL she didn’t. I guess you haven’t read the rest of the board, but that’s being discussed. I guess we’ll have to see how they dance around it on the episode, but they definitely meet. Maybe her and Spock will just decide to keep their engagement between them. Canon saved!
T’Pring is going to play Chapel hard because she can see Chapel’s crush on Spock from five miles away. T’Pring is going to show us that she knows how humans play love games.
We all like Chapel now, but she will be bested, she will suffer, and canon will be proved right: Spock is better of without T’Pring.
I feel a little sorry thinking that, but that’s how this is going to go. We are “worrying” over nothing (in terms of canon) and it’s going to be little bit sad to watch.
A likely and interesting take Trek in a Cafe.
Nice guess but noooooot quite! ;)
*sigh*
If that is true then I really don’t know what to say. I’d like to wait and see what they do here but given what they have done so far I’m thinking they aren’t going to even try to do a damn thing to make this work. What we saw in the first episode I didn’t have too much of an issue with but if T’Pring is going to interact with the two characters who spill over onto TOS who obviously had no idea whatsoever about Spock’s relationship status it just shows yet again that the people making this show either know little to nothing about TOS and didn’t bother to find out or have people on staff to tell them what they can or can’t do or they don’t respect the source material enough to care. In either case it’s evidence to me that these folks have no business making Star Trek.
But again, let’s see where the episode goes with this. (he says expecting nothing)
Captain Pike is sporting the updated green tunic wrap-around. Looks good! Feels good!
I spotted this also. Looks great.
Nice job replicating the look and feel of Amok Time and the end of Search for Spock. Or sort of a mashup of the two, I guess. I dig it.
Yeah, another recreation? I am glad JJ gave us a glimpse of Vulcan we have not seen before.
Oh yeah, if original has a name it’s… JJ Abrams…
Using Vazquez Rocks for a SF project hardly seems original. If anybody wants to claim originality for Abrams, it should be for the seriously elastic (reed richards cubed) concept of ship size. Even the brewery looking shipboard crap was already done in the original V, though not as offensively.
It might also be that I was being sarcastic.
He gave us a glimpse… then blew it up!
Seriously though, we already got something of Vulcan we had not seen before in the first episode. At least I can’t recall ever seeing that Vulcan castle at the edge of the water. T’Pring manor?
This looks like it’s going to be really fun! Can’t wait!
Agreed. Spock brings a whole new approach to the old “guy strategy” of being distant and unapproachable so as to be a babe magnet…lol
Looking forward to this as well, looks like it’ll be interesting. Hard to believe we’re five episodes in already, wow.
Yeah it does look really fun. And I’m one of those weirdos who actually like most of the comedic episodes of the past; so excited to see what they do here.
I guess it also explains why I love Lower Decks so much as well. I really don’t mind when Star Trek gets loopy. Of course I wouldn’t want every show like LDS either. ;)
Everything old is bad and everything new is good; therefore, since Strange New Worlds is newer than The Original Series, “Spock Amok” will be better than “Amok Time.” Congrats to the cast and crew for working in the correct decade.
It’s not an either/or proposition. Some elements of SNW can improve on TOS, but may TOS elements are iconic and stand the test of time.
I would recommend you try to enjoy both series’ and don’t get hung up on either timeframe.
I hate to agree with something like this but that is actually a pretty legitimate theory after seeing the first 4 episodes of SNW.
T’Pring is nothing but trouble, even in a dream sequence.
The title is also a word play on “Duck Amuck,” a classic Bugs Bunny / Daffy Duck cartoon that — come to think of it — could be adapted to be a multiverse Star Trek episode.
Spock, dude, what is your secret? LOL
Commenting that the canonistas are having a collective aneurism over this is like commenting that the sun rises in the east. We all know it’s going to happen.
Seriuously, is it that hard to just sit back and enjoy the show(s)?
Clearly it is for many here Phil.
I still love and feel at home on this board, simply because people really know their stuff here.
I note nonetheless that all the canon obsessiveness may be chilling for newcomers.
Tiger2 keeps saying it’s always been like this, but when Discovery was in S2 or Picard S1, posts about trailers or reviews would often get 500 or 600 comments each.
I notice that TrekMovie articles get cross posted to other social media and attract a lot of views and comments. This suggests that a broader group of people enjoy Tony and Laurie’s reviews, analysis and interviews. It’s the comments discussion that is falling off.
I’d agree that the canon chatter has been around forever. Generally, though, I think most folks understood that if continuity had to go out the window in service of a story, out the window it went.
Since Picard and SNW’s have breadcast, though, it has seemed to get roided up quite a bit. This obsession over the tiniest of details is a head scratcher, to sy the least.
“I note nonetheless that all the canon obsessiveness may be chilling for newcomers.”
It’s weird that many fans who would give Lower Decks, which is canon, a sort of free pass on all the stuff they do that one could certainly question as crapping all over canon, but then act like canon hard-assess on some relatively minor inconsistencies on SNW? Makes no sense?
To me, all the discussion around SNW has been pretty tame compared to the past. Maybe you weren’t here during Discovery’s first season but dude, this is a walk in the park compared to THAT first season lol.
No one is here saying SNW is getting cancelled any day or it’s not real Star Trek or the endless discussions over it’s visual canon and the Klingons or how the show should’ve just been a reboot from the start, a total sham to Star Trek and on and on.
And we been having this same discussion for five years straight now. Maybe my memory is just better, but nothing gets erased on TM. Click on the first episodes of the first season of Discovery and witness the total meltdown lol. There are tons of people who loved the show and had no real issues with its canon but the division was VERY strong.
I don’t see the same thing happening here with SNW. Even the people who having issues with the canon stuff in it still seems to be enjoying the show from what I can tell if they like it. As I said, I point out what I don’t like but I loved every episode so far and has said so.
But it’s been that way since all the Kelvin movies, especially when STID came out. I would say, IMO, the boards were mostly balanced through the first Kelvin movie. But from STID and on, it’s been pretty brutal since. I actually felt bad for new fans of those movies who probably wanted to come here (since this site was specifically created for those films) to talk more positively about them only to be scared off from all the vitriol lol. It’s kind of sad even now you don’t see many new or younger fans on this site. I’m sure they lurk but yeah this site is basically for the long time and hardcore fans it seems.
But yes it is why I love being on Reddit. All that stuff happens there too, the difference is it is more balanced than here. And not everyone there is so tied to TOS like people are here as we discussed before. It’s more focused on the TNG era of shows, another reason why I like it.
And I post quite a few TM articles there too!
I was lurking here during Discovery season one, so I saw the debates.
But there were lots of positive people posting too. And as you say more than the 12-36 regulars here.
So, it may not be more or more vehement, but that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t, cumulatively had a chilling effect.
In fact, the level of canon intransigence here has almost become a running joke on another board. There are a few people who post on both, using the same aliases, and I wonder if they just stick their oar in here up to a point and then let it go.
True there were more people posting but it was also the first show in a decade so there was just more interest in general.
But still, this is not new at all. I’m shocked that you are somehow surprised by it. Even if you weren’t posting here in Discovery’s first season, you were here for the second and a lot of those issues was still discussed and debated to death. But as I said I been here since 2011 (but was lurking as far back as 2008) and this is just how it’s been. It’s not like SNW is getting some special scrutiny compared to the others. And as I said, it’s a lot less hostility about it.
When STID came into play it was so much bitterness and hatred over that movie here even Bob Orci snapped and cussed out a few posters in a thread lol. NOTHING is like that happening with this show. Yeah some people are not happy with the canon issues, but it’s pretty civil and tame. I haven’t seen the word ‘hack’ used once to describe it. So you just have to respect their opinions even if they do say them over and over again. And this board has had this reputation for a long long time now. It is what it is.
And honestly this is just how fandom is in general. I don’t know if you are watching the Obi Wan show NO SPOILERS but the irony is that show is getting the EXACT same debate as SNW. Literally the same issues and debates are propping up on that show for fans. Certain characters from the OT has shown up on it that feels out of place to their relationship in the OT. Fans are pointing out specific lines from A New Hope that just doesn’t line up with what we are seeing in the story and so on. And people are pointing it out; a LOT lol! That’s why message boards exist, to discuss the good and bad. And why prequels can be very hard to do when you are throwing in a bunch of fan service characters.
And I will say while Star Trek fandom certainly has it’s problems, Star Wars fandom still has a deeper level of toxicity that is just inexcusable. I don’t mean the moaning over canon, that’s just your basic nerd stuff. I’m talking about the racial insults with the actress Moses Ingram which I’m sure you heard about. Just utterly disgusting and it just KEEPS happening with Star Wars. It has happened in Star Trek, but not at that level or as often. The worse thing I can think that has been said about any of the actors or characters on SNW so far is that people don’t like La’An being a Noonien Singh. I mean if that’s the worst of it so far, this show is smooth sailing lol.
So yeah, we Star Trek fans can get a little too prickly about some things but it’s still not close to how bad it can REALLY get when compared to other fandoms.
Is the Obi Wan series any good? May add Disney soon for say 2 months to watch that an binge watch some other shows they have.
All I can say is I’m really enjoying it personally and the last episode was the strongest so far. But it does seem a bit mixed at the moment overall. It’s not the Mandalorian but so far way ahead of Book of Boba Fett (which was disappointing by the end).
Tiger2, I am long past being shocked by Star Trek fan negativity.
I’m old enough to have been inundated with some of the mid 80s in person and mimeoed fanzine rants about how the new show (TNG) could never possibly be Trek.
When certain fanzines of self-declared “true fans” in the 1980s went 80 or 90% negative and wouldn’t give TNG a chance, I didn’t renew my subscriptions and found new ones. Likewise, when the early BBS went toxic about Janeway, I had no interest to stay in the conversation.
What I am saying is, similar to kmart, that the negative balance and repetitiveness of the conversation here is making it a place where “at best”, some of us are becoming less engaged and dropping out. We’re not being replaced because it’s difficult and not that appealing for new voices to join regardless of the great content that Tony, Laurie and other members of the team are giving us every week.
Even with a hit in SNW, the threads have gone mostly negative within 4 episodes. I don’t think we can make the case anymore that it’s constructive criticism, intended to strengthen the new shows.
But negativity and a falloff in comments per thread here is an exception among the boards. It’s just not true that the number of comments are down because we have so many other series. Quite the opposite.
As a whole, other boards have more volume than ever or SNW wouldn’t be sitting where it is in Parrot Analytics top ten digital originals. The volume of social media engagement is a major part of the Parrot metric.
OK I understand all of that. I’m only saying based on my experience, the boards have always leaned more negative than positive. If someone wants to disagree with that, go right ahead. But at least based on my viewing they seem to be the most positive leading up to the first Kelvin movie, Picard and yes SNW. Everything else has been give or take of course or just met with more suspicion.
I don’t know what you want me to say? This is just how it’s been for the most part. You certainly have your cheerleaders and I will say some things seem more positive than negative like the animated shows and as said mostly the first Kelvin movie.
You seem really bothered by it and I guess I can understand. For me I’m so use to fan negativity in general it doesn’t faze me, including when something I generally like as well of course. I been a Voyager fan for 25 years, that hasn’t always been easy lol; especially on these boards. But same time I feel a lot more people have come around and speak much more positively about it compared to early 2000s.
And dude, SNW is just new. It will probably settle down, but you can’t expect everyone to feed into the same echo chamber either even if it’s more popular than others at the beginning. And plenty of people ARE being positive on it; just focus on those. I think you can at least agree more people seem to like the show here than not. That proves most people ARE liking the show.
In reality though, TM just needs an ignore button. That would make things easier for people who don’t want to read certain posters or certain kind of posts again and again. I know I would be blocked by a few here lol. But there isn’t one here so you have to partake or just keep scrolling. I do that as much as possible with some here, but only some.
And to be more blunt about it, Anthony Pascale, the creator of the site seems to believe in letting people speak their mind as long as they are not trolling or spamming the boards. Every once in a while he or another moderator will tell people to move on if it gets into a constant back-and-forth but he doesn’t seem to think there are any inherit issues with how negative people can be here to the point it could be driving others away. And he’s ironically one of the most optimistic and positive Star Trek fans around. He seems to enjoy every show and every movie in general. If he’s not that bothered by it, then there is not much else more that can be said. It’s his site.
And I was never suggesting number of comments are down due to the number of shows. I was only saying you can’t compare the number of people who was discussing Discovery in it’s first season compared to SNW because Discovery was the first brand new show in over a dozen years, so it brought people out the woodwork to talk about it, including all the delays and controversy over it like when Bryan Fuller left, etc.
But it’s been five years and the newness has worn off since we have gotten multiple shows since so it’s not going to be as intense.. Same thing happened between the first Kelvin movie and Beyond. There were much more people posting when the original film came out. By the time of Beyond, still a decent group of people, but much lower as well.
Apparently so.
None other than David Gerrold himself once noted that in terms of its continuity his script for “The Trouble With Tribbles” was “atrocious” — his word — but that he and Gene Coon willingly ignored the lapses in logic because this was — wait for it — a comedy. I have no idea if “Spock Amok” will be any good or not (though the critics who got to see it sure seemed to like it), but I pity anyone who refuses to laugh only because Cadet Uhura shares an episode with T’Pring.
I mean, if we have to accept Lower Decks as canon, surely we can live with these issues on SNW, right?
NEW SPINOFF SERIES: “Crazy Rich Vulcans”
Staring T’Pring and her family and friends, with Spock at a frequent guest star.
LOL
Is it just me, or does T’Pring look a bit pregnant in the 4th photo?
this was an amazing episode. love. love. love.
Agree Luke! It actually felt like a live action Lower Decks episode! :)