‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 3 Has Khan-Level Villain, Jean-Luc/Beverly Tension… And The Enterprise

In addition to unveiling the character reveal teaser, the SDCC Trek Universe panel revealed much about what is coming for the third season of Star Trek: Picard, which has already been filmed and is expected to arrive in early 2023. Executive producer Alex Kurtzman was joined by star Sir Patrick Stewart and returning Next Generation star Gates McFadden, and all of them were dropping season 3 clues.

Significant roles for TNG crew in season three

The big news for season 3 of Picard is the return of the main cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Kurtzman said that it didn’t make sense to do this at the start, but after two seasons of Picard, the show had “earned the return of the crew,” and said the team’s goal was to “honor the legacy of these extraordinary characters.” He also explained how they would be brought into the show:

Kurtzman: And the key thing for us was that we did not want to have the crew sort of come and have cameos. we actually wanted everybody to have really significant roles. And we wanted to whet appetites a little bit to see them come back together. So at the beginning of the season, the crew is in different places around the galaxy… and slowly we see them come together, but we wanted to take the time, because these are obviously beloved characters, to get to see where they are now.

Later Gates McFadden offered some more insight into where we find the TNG characters in season 3:

McFadden: And you’ll see with the ensemble, there’s some of us, our characters haven’t seen each other for years. And other ones, they have been in contact all the time. So you really do feel that life has moved forward. And that we’re engaged in trying to imagine a future that we all will have courage enough to live and go forward to right now.

Patrick Stewart talked about how the show is taking risks, and so is he:

Stewart: We carve out new territory in Picard… that is the most essential thing to remember. We are breaking boundaries all the time and reflecting life as it might possibly be.

As time has gone by, I have found that I have been able to take more risks [as an actor]. And this was a risk for all of us. But we embraced it boldly and passionately and with belief.

Alex Kurtzman, Patrick Stewart, and Gates McFadden at Comic-Con 2022 (Photo: TrekMovie)

A new villain

Without giving out any details on the plot, Kurtzman offered some details on a new character who will act as the main antagonist for the season:

Kurtzman: Terry [Matalas] very taken with the idea of kind of doing the final Next Gen movie. And it was really exciting to approach this from a place of ‘Who would these characters be now, so many years later?’ The kinds of movies that we—obviously Wrath of Khan is a massive touchstone for anybody who loves Star Trek. But I think one of the things that we love most about Wrath of Khan is the mind games between Kirk and Khan and the one-upsmanship. That has been a real North Star for us this season. The villain that we created—we do have a singular villain this season. I won’t say too much other than that she is amazing.


One of the biggest reveals from the panel came from a simple question from moderator (and Picard director) Lea Thompson asking Patrick Stewart if he ever gets to sit in the captain’s chair in season 3. Stewart revealed this is a complicated question because there appears to be multiple ships (with multiple chairs) to choose from:

Stewart: The captain’s chair? The identical chair on the identical ship, I don’t think I do… I mean, there’s more than one Enterprise and that makes it a little complicated. But we do return to the original Enterprise for a while and I had completely forgotten that in those days we hard carpets on the floor, so that’s the kind of advancement that has been made.

Unpacking what Stewart said, it appears that the USS Enterprise-D will play some role in season three. The ship was last seen in the 1994 film Star Trek: Generations when the saucer crash landed on Veridian III after separating from the drive section, which exploded. However, details from the first episode of Picard season 2 revealed the saucer was salvaged and put on display at the Starfleet Museum. It sounds like season 3 may include another Enterprise, possibly the Enterprise-E last seen in Star Trek: Nemesis, or (more likely) a new version, as the series is set over 20 years later.

USS Enterprise-D in Generations

Picard and Crusher have issues

Picking up on Kurtzman’s comment about how the season finds the various TNG characters in different locations in season three, Gates McFadden talked a bit about Dr. Beverly Crusher’s journey:

McFadden: Crusher’s been all around the universe. You saw the universe from the Webb Telescope, I’ve been all over that place. It’s been really amazing to have a chance to return to a character, and this incredible man next to me [Patrick], and plunge in again. Because we’re different. We’ve evolved as characters. And it was really a gift. And I wanted to also thank Terry Matalas, for the great story. He was our producer, and he did a fantastic job.

She also talked about some of the character dynamics, including between Crusher and Picard:

McFadden: I will say that this script for season 3 Picard, I think it’s the best stuff my characters ever had on a Star Trek season. So I was thrilled about it and I hope that the fans will be thrilled too. There’s s a lot of unexpected things that happen. There’s a lot of unresolved issues between Picard and Crusher.

She returned to the Picard/Crusher issue again in response to a question about strong female characters on the new Trek series:

McFadden: It is great to have other strong females. It was great to have Jeri [Ryan] and Raffi [Michelle Hurd] and have the chance to work with them. I didn’t have that much but when it when it happened it was really great. I had I had a lot of difficulties with this man [hugs Patrick Stewart].

Gates McFadden at Comic-Con 2022 (Photo: TrekMovie)

Spiner’s role and Seven in Starfleet

Brent Spiner is returning for the third season but didn’t appear in the teaser released over the weekend. This is clearly because they are holding back on what character he is playing in season 3, as he has previously played three different characters over two seasons of Picard (Data and Altan Inigo Soong in season one, and Adam Soong in season two). After the trailer played, Kurtzman added this comment:

Kurtzman: I should also add that Brent Spiner is also going to be there and he’s going to be an old new character, that’s what I’ll say.

Later Kurtzman also offered a bit more insight into Jeri Ryan’s Seven in season 3:

Kurtzman: Seven has found herself a first officer on her ship, but as we know, Seven is a Fenris Ranger and has a very particular view on how things should go in the universe. And so a lot of Seven’s exploration is about her identity versus the identity of Starfleet and where she fits in.

Seven was last seen being given temporary command of the USS Stargazer in the season 2 finale, but from the teaser and character poster, it’s clear she has officially joined Starfleet. Terry Matalas has also confirmed she holds the rank of commander and as Kurtzman noted she is a first officer. It’s likely Seven serves on the main ship for the season, which has already been confirmed to not be the Stargazer.

Stewart ready for another TNG movie… considers who could play young Picard

Season 3 of Picard is being promoted as the final season, but during the audience Q&A, Patrick Stewart was asked if he would return to the role for another feature film. Apparently, he would:

Stewart: Yes is the answer to that, bluntly. I think that would be a very interesting and exciting and worthwhile thing to achieve.

Kurtzman seemed open to the idea as well:

Kurtzman: I think that in some ways, season three is that, but of course… look, if you guys love it, let’s see what happens.

Another fan question brought up the idea of someone playing a young Jean-Luc Picard like James McAvoy has done for his X-Men role of Professor X, but Stewart didn’t seem ready to answer this one:

Stewart: I find it very difficult to answer that question because it would mean stepping outside who I am, and as I’ve been trying to explain, he [Picard] is in here inside me. So I don’t think it has to be necessarily somebody who lost their hair at 19, but someone with the feelings and the spirit, particularly when he watches Picard and especially season three, because that’s where some of the surprises and shocks occur. They really are shocks. So, wherever he is, I wish him well.

Sir Pat says goodbye to SDCC

As things were wrapping up, Stewart took a moment to reflect on his long history with San Diego Comic-Con, offering his thanks:

Stewart: Can I just say because this may be my last opportunity: Thank you to Comic-Con! Because over the years, they have supported so many things that I’ve been involved with. It is a wonderful experience to be here and I’m very proud that I’ve been able to come back. Thank you.

Patrick Stewart at Comic-Con 2022 (Photo: TrekMovie)

More to come from SDCC 2022

There is still more to come with our Comic-Con coverage, including more details from Saturday’s Star Trek Universe panel. So stay tuned to TrekMovie.com for more news from San Diego, and check out the rest of our San Diego Comic-Con 2022 coverage.

You should also keep track of @TrekMovie on Twitter for ongoing updates, panel highlights, and more from San Diego Comic-Con.

Keep up with all the Star Trek news out of San Diego Comic-Con here at TrekMovie.

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Can’t wait for S3. SNW has been enjoyable show with bringing back certain legacy characters but from what i have read and seen of bts of S3 of Picard it looks set to be a far better season and an even more enjoyable show.

It’s either going to be Enterprise-F from STO or a new Enterprise – possibly Enterprise-G. But it will look just like the Zheng He (??) cause all new StarTrek ships look the same now.

Well in DS9, all the Galaxy class pressed into service as the line battleship/flagship all looked the Enterprise D. So, yes, if they are using an existing design, there are going to be similarities since you are using the same design as well as differences, due to later modification. See the real world example of the three different flights of the Arleigh Burke class destroyer in the US Navy.

Let’s keep the Aztecing and “feathers” to a bare minimum. There is something magical about clean lines on a starship.

You clearly didn’t see season 2, the ships designs are not all just the same.

The one good thing about season 2 imo. Glad to have all those new designs in canon!

They only ‘all look the same’ if you pick on a single encounter at the end of PIC S1, a series plagued by production issues.

They course-corrected in S2 (though it’s a shame we hardly saw a ship after the second episode) and have in a roundabout way apologised for the copy/paste fleet and promised better going forward.

this is an inaccurate statement. Clearly not watching, because ssn2 gave us all the ships! Go back to Red Letter Media, wit hthat attitude. K bye

A Matlas tweet strongly suggests that it’s the F.

Okay, it’s time. Let’s bring back Armus.

he he

But imagine how they could do him now, with modern FX tech.

It’s already been made very clear the villain in Season 3 is going to be Dr. Moriarty. LOL.

After they transitioned to female?

He did show up in Lower Decks when they prank called him.

“Kurtzman: I should also add that Brent Spiner is also going to be there and he’s going to be an old new character, that’s what I’ll say.”

I think Lore is back!?

B4, played by a cg de-aged Brent.

Did Lore create offspring like Data did with Lal?

Talk about a possible ‘problem child,’ would be worse than having Miguelito Loveless’ kid played by Paul Williams in a weird WILD WILD WEST TV-movie.

BTW, am actually watching Picard s2. Thought the first half of the season was surprisingly watchable, but the ‘everybody infiltrates the party’ ep really went off the rails for me, and the followup with Picard in his psychodrama coma almost put a nail in things. Have two eps left, and don’t feel bad for having watched it (yet.)

You’re one tough room.

Really? I think my largely benign response to Ps2 and SNW may indicate a certain mellowing … either that or exhaustion.

May all of my critics be so benign! :-)

I enjoyed Picard S2, mostly. I think maybe they could have told the story more effectively in fewer episodes, but there was some fun time travel hijinks, young Guinan was cool, and it was a decent last hurrah (?) for Q.

I thought the season got a little better in the last few episodes after spinning it’s wheels for 3 or 4 episodes. I think the execution was poor but the idea was sound. Explore a little for why Picard is who he is. I just wish they did a better job of it.

Knowing Kurtzman…. Brent Spiner will be playing “Khan Noonian Dr. Soong”



Whilst I wouldn’t be surprised to see Lore appear as a secondary villain I have a feeling we’re going to be seeing Data back in a new body.

Gollum body, the Brent Spiner we know…or something related to time travel and the two Enterprise. Hope they have something totally different, a new twist, something not so obvious, not expected.

Would be awesome to see a crossover with the Data from the Kelvin Universe.

A Data from an alternate timeline like the KU would fit in with the ‘old new character’ description. I guess there’s a lot of ways they could bring him back but I wouldn’t rule out the obvious route of just sticking him in a new, more age appropriate golum body. I think Matalas just wants to play with all the TNG cast. He wasn’t involved in season 1 so won’t be concerned about undermining it’s ending. Spiner has been quite vocal about not playing Data again but I think the opportunity to revisit the role with the entire principal TNG cast may be a compelling enough reason to change his mind.

So true. Spiner has been adamant about playing Data again. It has to be Data 3.5. =D

After so much waiting before each Season, I feel they are giving too much, too early! I can’t wait until 2023 to watch Season 3.

The goal for Data has always been being human so I could see him being given an organic synth body.

I’ve seen some speculation that the villain is Sela. Having her try to connect with the universe where Vulcan was destroyed instead of Romulus… there’s the seed of a story there for sure.

Sela! Will be very cool if they bring her back.

Sela? Hmm… could be fun; but Crosby has denied being involved, right? 🤷‍♂️

I’m hoping for “The Wrath of Pulaski”, with Katherine going toe to toe with Beverly for ousting her in season 3… 🙏😁

I don’t necessarily think that’s the way they went, but a denial from Crosby would be pretty much by the book.


Golem. Gollum is the little weird guy from LOTR.

“A golem is an animated anthropomorphic being in Jewish folklore which is entirely created from inanimate matter (usually clay or mud). In the Psalms and medieval writings, the word golem was used as a term for an amorphous, unformed material.” – wikipedia

Maybe Spiner is now the ship’s computer.

Andromeda Type?

Well… He practically was back on the show.

I hope whatever comes next with live action, the franchise stays in the 25th century. I feel that time period should be the centre point. With the odd standalone show going back (SNW) or much further forward (DIS).

Agreed! The early 25th century gives the writers room to bring in the occasional legacy character on whatever show comes next. I want to see more new characters, new ships, but this is clearly the era so many fans gravitate to.

I take referencing Wrath of Khan as meaning an old foe with a grudge against the hero, in which case it has to be an established villain and not a new character created specifically for Picard season three.

IF that is the case, and that the villain is a woman, it really narrows down the options. Denials to the contrary aside, until proven otherwise, I’ll continue to believe it’s going to be Sela, which would complete the reunion of the TNG original cast.

It is not likely to be the Borg Queen because, one, we already saw her (or a version of her) in season two and, two, the one from the prime timeline (presumably) died for good in the last episode of Voyager.

Not necessarily. It could be (yet again) another character who could be out for vengeance the crew itself isn’t aware of. I mean they literally done this in the last four movies.

-Shinzon- Khan-like Picard clone who wanted vengeance against Picard and the Federation for silly reasons. The crew didn’t know who he was.

-Nero- Khan-like Romulan who wanted vengeance against Spock and the Federation for even sillier reasons. Prime Spock knew who he was but everyone the guy actually faced off in the movie didn’t.

-John Harrison- Literally Khan disguised as a British white guy for unexplained reasons who wanted vengeance against Admiral Marcus and the Federation for somewhat valid reasons for a change. Marcus obviously knew who he was but the Enterprise crew was completely oblivious.

-Krall- Khan-like Starfleet MACO soldier who wanted vengeance just against the Federation this time (original!!!!) for silly reasons again and who the crew had no idea who he was.

So it doesn’t mean it’s some known character who has been waiting in the wings for revenge. It could just be another uber-villain who may want to bring the Federation down and the Enterprise crew is caught in the middle. Or they want against a specific person who isn’t even aware of them.

Everything so far sounds great but this is the one hard eye roll. I really really wish we could get away from Khan or all the Khan like substitutes they keep pushing in these stories over and over again. But I’ll remain open-minded. This one is a woman this time so clearly it’s totally original.

And it couldn’t be Sela because Terry Matalas said the villain is an actor new to Star Trek! But maybe Sela’s daughter? Ooooor let’s go big and it’s La’an Noonien Soong’s granddaughter and now we have literally a Khan connection. ;D

That is the problem with these pseudo-Khan pastiches; they use new characters with a grudge against the Federation or the hero, which is why they lack the weight of Khan.

For it to REALLY work, it HAS to be an established villain with an actual past with the hero, as was the case with Khan and Kirk.

Ideally, Kurtzman has learned the right lessons from those failures and Matalas will get to tell a story actually inspired by Wrath of Khan that serves as a satisfying sequel to TNG like Trek 2 did to TOS.

The suggestion made in the comment section that Spiner is playing Lore makes Sela’s return even more interesting, as what would be better than Lore and Sela (Tasha’s daughter) playing a twisted mirror image couple of Data and Prime Tasha as the main villains of the story?

To quote Seinfeld, “That’s gold, Jerry. GOLD!”

Agreed, and I really want it to be the little pink critters from “Conspiracy”. Any random female lead could be the new Remmick.

Agreed, and I really want it to be the little pink critters from “Conspiracy”. Any random female lead could be the new Remmick.

Lol. Imagine if that were the case.

Ardra. From Devil’s Due.And that’s too much of a deep dive. And I see 10 other commenters beat me to it.

And I think the actress passed away.

Maybe the villain is Vecna. From Stranger Things. It’s trendy right now.

And I think the actress passed away.

I thought I remembered reading that.

If the same line of thinking from SNW is still intact, we can expect the antagonists to be Species 10-C. Because some writer with no imagination whatsoever saw some “wiggle room” in that Star Trek Discovery season.

I agree obviously but that seems to be the trend over and over again. To be honest the only TRUE villains outside of Khan where they had a history with our heroes has been Gul DuKat on DS9 and the Borg Queen. And of course Gul Dukat was a highly complex character and not a one dimensional archetype baddie like most of those I named above. The Borg Queen is good too but not on the level of DuKat. Duras sisters were just OK, but at least they weren’t just seeking VENGEANCE!!!! I don’t really count Lore but yes he could be the villain this season too.

But 90% of villains in Star Trek outside of them has just been people who showed up on the scene in an episode or film and rarely heard from again or usually killed off once the story ends. I would like for the villain this season to be someone we know, close to the crew and a bit complex so I’m crossing my fingers but not holding my breath. ;)

I’m crossing my fingers but not holding my breath. ;)


I wish Gul Dukat would return.
There will never be another villain in Star Trek as complex as him – ever! They should make this woman villain be trying to find the Pah-Wraiths and unwittingly unleash Gul Dukat back into the universe. That would definitely be cool! Then that would give them a reason to bring back Sisko 🙂.

Live long and prosper, Tiger2 🖖

Con artist woman from DEVIL’S DUE.

Or maybe Picard’s lawyer lady friend from MEASURE turned into a female version of Clarence Thomas in her old age?

Picard’s only real match of measure was Vash, but I don’t really see that as a possible.

I mean, yeah. Ardra is an option, but is it someone we’d as the audience be like “yay!” about? Does she reach the stature of Khan?

If they weren’t dead, Lursa and B’Etor would be an option too.

But as I said according to Matalas the actor playing the villain is new to Star Trek. But I guess that doesn’t stop them from playing a previous character.

And I love Vash, I don’t want her to be a villain. Maybe Vash’s evil twin sister though. ;D

But as I said according to Matalas the actor playing the villain is new to Star Trek. But I guess that doesn’t stop them from playing a previous character.

I’m hoping that’s misdirection.

And it could be!

No, that would constitute a plain “lie”, not a “misdirection”.

No, that would constitute a plain “lie”, not a “misdirection”.

I don’t mind being lied to in this context if it conceals a pleasant surprise.

Wow, at least it’s not political.
Maybe the bad guy is AOC’s decendent? Or Nancy Pelosi is still alive then……(she wouldn’t look any different), maybe Adam Schiff in a moo-moo?

Clearance Thomas is trying to turn the clock back to America to 1967. He’s the opposite of ‘progressive’ which Star Trek is all about. And he’s married to someone who tried to help Insurrection Trump overturn an election to stay in power. Disgusting. She could definitely play a Star Trek villain.

Spare me. He’s a conservative judge doing his job based on his beliefs. Plus, he is been in an inter-racial marriage since before it was cool so I’ll give him ‘progressive’ points for that. You remember when Trump beat Clinton and all the left was standing with their mouths agape at the thought that someone like Trump could possibly beat Hillary Rodham Clinton? Yeah, that how Thomas’ wife felt when Joe Freaking Biden beat Trump. Trek being progressive or not: You don’t have to be a far left person to be a Star Trek fan, that is not a rule. Half of America tried to overturn that election, and I am sure the next one will be just as big a shitshow as the last one was. And of all the millions of Trek fans out there, there are not all Progressives. Not should they be…..

Do keep in mind that far as Trek goes Trump supporters helped ignite the Second American Civil War, so think of how history within the narrative of Trek remembers the Thomases and their ilk…

No spare us. Thomas is a hypocrite. He’s trying to overturn things like gay marriage and yet overlook the fact there were laws that forbidden interracial marriage. And that’s the problem, HIS beliefs, that the majority of Americans don’t even support. And we have people like this trying to make America in his image who overlook the fact it’s progressive laws that fought for him to even marry his wife. Imagine if someone tried to take that away from him? That’s the thing about America, the point is to GAIN more rights, not lose them.

Yes I do remember when Trump beat Clinton. I don’t remember anyone trying to stage a coup so she could be President anyway. Thomas wife tried to over turn an election. Trump should be in jail for what he tried to do and Thomas should be right along with him.

Star Trek is about progress. Always has been. It’s only conservatives complaining it’s too ‘woke’. That’s YOUR problem, not the show because that’s what the show is and its NEVER changing.


It is too bad that evolving humanity to correct past injustices and behaviours is seen by some as something negative.

The one thing that most of us fans agree on is the vision of a hopeful future. Collectively each iteration has provided us with a thoughtful vision of that tomorrow, but none articulated it better than DS9 when Kasidy says to Sisko they are so lucky to live in a time where their only “limitations are the ones we put on ourselves”!!

That that line is representative of what is great about it. Individuals, no matter who or what they are, have the ability and freedoms to perform to their individual best. No one see them as a group. That is something that we as a nation if not yet achieved got oh so very close to it before certain forces worked at shattering it. It would seem we still have quite a ways to go….

No spare us. Thomas is a hypocrite. He’s trying to overturn things like gay marriage and yet overlook the fact there were laws that forbidden interracial marriage. And that’s the problem, HIS beliefs, that the majority of Americans don’t even support. And we have people like this trying to make America in his image who overlook the fact it’s progressive laws that fought for him to even marry his wife. Imagine if someone tried to take that away from him? That’s the thing about America, the point is to GAIN more rights, not lose them.

Yes I do remember when Trump beat Clinton. I don’t remember anyone trying to stage a coup so she could be President anyway. Thomas wife tried to over turn an election. Trump should be in jail for what he tried to do and Thomas should be right along with him.

Star Trek is about progress. Always has been. It’s only conservatives complaining it’s too ‘woke’. That’s YOUR problem, not the show because that’s what the show is and its NEVER changing.

Star Trek is about progress. Always has been. It’s only conservatives complaining it’s too ‘woke’. That’s YOUR problem, not the show because that’s what the show is and its NEVER changing.


Your speech was so good you posted it twice! Bravo

And apparently left you speechless. ;)

Congrats, you demonstrated you could count to two. That’s about how many decades we have left, thanks to the brand of blind hatred and shortsightedness you have subscribed to.

Ditto Tiger2!

Star Trek has always been about moving forward and evolving humanity – and thankfully that means looking back at past mistakes and injustices and learning from them.

You poked the hornet’s nest Chris W. Good on ya. So much for true “diversity.” Don’t have a diverse opinion or thought (especially political thought) or they’ll grab the pitchforks.

(In other words, if anybody challenges us let’s just raise a fuss and whine about how unfair it is to detract from the fact that we can’t defend our comments intelligently)


Pitchforks aren’t enough to deter you folks. If the Right is fine with taking away women’s rights, then a reckoning in the form of taking their testes (while they’re awake) is only proper, and not even enough to offset the damage done.


Ok Boomer

Talking down to Chris won’t help. You’ve got to figure a way to elevate/enlighten him or else destroy his kind. Hate to sound so absolutist, but short of a Trek-style solution, it is really coming down to guns and troops and the will to use whatever is at hand.

The Right, such as it is now, is about the rule of the minority rich, be it the maintaining and increasing of a sub-race for servitude and soldiering by any means necessary (see Supreme Court), and totally at the expense of all life on the planet. Note I didn’t say ‘all other life’ because unless they can teleport the elite to a Class-M planet or create a self-supporting L5 community, they’re damning themselves as well as the rest of us with this uttelry insane climate denial stuff.

I rejected SOLAR CRISIS (a really abysmal movie from over 30 years back) because the villain was sabotaging a save-the-sun mission owing to insane shortsightedness, feeling that there was no basis in reality for such an act (could be applied to a lot in that movie, which has problems throughout.) Now I see a whole subset of the nation goosestepping in line with the same kind of insanity, even after everything has been proven and demonstrated for decades. I wrote in a 1990 editorial about the environment that the 70s would have been a good time to start acting on the environment, and the 90s would be a good time to start panicking. At this point, I don’t know there is anything left to do except eulogize — and string up everybody who helped deny us a future, hopefully in a way that lets the birds peck their entrails out. It won’t help, but it won’t hurt either.

The minority rich, who use snake oil and mirrors to get disaffected masses of white people to vote in their block.

Admiral Norah Satie, come out from retirement to investigate what really cause the Romulan supernova.

The only problem is that the actress who played her, Jean Simmons, died in 2010. But recasting might explain the “new old character” comment.

Her appearance would also be fodder for commentary on Trump.

And it couldn’t be Sela because Terry Matalas said the villain is an actor new to Star Trek! But maybe Sela’s daughter? Ooooor let’s go big and it’s La’an Noonien Soong’s granddaughter and now we have literally a Khan connection. ;D

Heh. We would, but would it carry the same punch for the TNG characters, though?

Don’t forget Ru’afu Khan. Who wanted revenge against his people for…. Reasons.

not nesscartily, the bit about Khan they referance is the tendacy towards mindgames apparently

not nesscartily, the bit about Khan they referance is the tendacy towards mindgames apparently

I’m hopeful that they learn from that mistake and instead focus on what made Wrath work; an old foe with a grudge.

This is a long shot … but what about Vash? There’s a big plot hole on how their relationship ended, and maybe she wants revenge of some sort.

RIP David Warner

aka Chancellor Gorkon
aka St John Talbot
aka Gul Madred

Today, there are five lights, one just for you.

Damn. Thanks for the heads-up. Warner will definitely be missed.

Very hopeful.
These late series seem to challenge or even attack the form of the earlier ones, not always in a productive manner. I live for the character moments, nod my head dully to the technobabble-spawned plots, and hang on tight.

Beverly was never the same after Picard swapped her to the Orion’s for a case of Saurian Brandy….


I think that Seven is on Enterprise -E as XO to Capt Worf. personally. I cant wait for more info

terry matalas has said worf is not a captain

open your eyes and count the rank-pins

Rank pips simply mean at one point in time he was captain (as in that’s the highest rank he achieved). Matalas clarified on Twitter to say that when we pick up in S3 of PIC, Worf is not currently serving as a captain. The rank pips would simply indicate he did earn the rank. It doesn’t mean he has to have a ship to keep it.

…..and there’s Patrick Stewart, making a pitch for Trek 14. There’s Kurtzman, not saying no.

My guess is they are probably open to any potential movies with legacy characters involved as long as they can make the budget work. Another reason why the next Kelvin film is probably still a mess to get green lit. And we know future movies are more for Paramount+ than anything.

I kind of doubt we will see a sort of TNG-follow on movie. TNG movies never have made the level of $ that TOS movies (including Kelvin) have made. Paramount knows this, and won’t throw good money after bad.

I hate to say it, but a Lower Decks movie is much more likely than a TNG-follow on movie.

Again, we’re talking if they want a pare down budget movie. I don’t think they would spend $150 million on it or anything. I’m mostly talking about smaller movies that would go to theaters for a few weeks for hardcore fans but mainly designed for Paramount+. And all the TNG movies made money except Nemesis because it SUCKED!

But it doesn’t have to be a TNG film either. It could be a Prodigy movie which they suggested before or yes even a LDS movie down the line since animated movies can be made for cheaper. I think both of those are VERY viable in the future.

I just think the big tent pole Trek films are done, especially if the next Kelvin movie bombs like Beyond did. But maybe the next one will be a surprise but I really have my doubts and clearly so does Paramount.

Good points. I do think the success or lack of success of the next (and final if it does not make $) Kelvin movie will determine all of this.

I wish we could get a few like 4 to 5 hour miniseries on P+. That would be perfect for the Myers Khan thing, as well as for TNG-follow on stories.

PS: If you look at the adjusted dollars for inflation, while two of TNG movies did make money as you say, the level of $ brought in by TOS-derived movies is like 1/3 higher on average if I recall correctly (I looked at this a year or two ago).

I’m not disputing TOS made more money but I’m going to guess it’s probably a bit too late to make another TOS movie at this point lol.

We ONLY have 3 movie series and right now its ‘currently’ the Kelvin movies. And I put those in quotes for obvious reasons. And we know how Hollywood works, if something made money once they think it can make money again. It’s the entire reason we have Picard back now in a show and the TNG era is making a resurgence in general. So they could take a chance on a smaller TNG film in the future but I’m not holding my breath on it either. I’m only saying probably EVERYTHING is on the table at the moment. It could be a Discovery movie in a few years time.

I just think the movie side of things are a mess and Paramount is just throwing darts on a board at this point. The four previous cancelled movies makes that clear and the next one still seems to be stalled. So who knows?

Agree in general with all of this. Pine apparently already has a $13M deal though for the new movie, so that tells me it’s happening still.

Also, when I used the term, “TOS-derived,” I am including the Kelvin films, so the TOS movies are still ongoing by that definition.

LOL that $13 million is total insanity. No wonder why these movies keep getting stalled with ridiculous decisions like this. WTF?? Who makes these decisions?

That’s literally what Tom Cruise was paid for as his salary for Top Gun Maverick. Tom Cruise, one of the remaining A-list stars and for a sequel to one of his biggest movies of his career. They are giving the same money to a guy who can’t open a single film on his own and the last Trek film he starred in BOMBED!

This is why these movies keep having the trouble they do. So I’m not surprised why it’s still stalled.

Dude, you’re way off on Cruise on Top Gun Maverick:

In the case of “Top Gun: Maverick,” still flying high at nearly $1.2 billion at the global box office, sources estimate that Cruise will net $100 million or more from ticket sales, his salary and his eventual cut of home entertainment rentals and streaming revenue.

So Pine just wants 13% of what Cruise got. Seems reasonable, and these days $13M for a lead in movie likely to make at least $500M globally seems about right. My opinion.

I said SALARY! That’s what he was paid upfront to actually do the movie. The rest are back end deals. And yeah it’s a sweet back end deal when your move makes over a billion dollars. But if the movie bombed he still got $13 million for just making it as Chris Pine is supposedly getting which is beyond ridiculous; especially since the last one bombed.

If Beyond made what Top Gun Maverick did, then yeah that’s fine lol. But they are just setting themselves up for failure because if they are giving Pine that much then you can only imagine what the others are getting too which leads to another soaring budget like Beyond. Again, WTF????

Look, let me put it this way. TGM cost $170 million and obviously it’s now at $1.2 billion. Tom Cruise deserves every dollar he made off that. Beyond cost MORE than TGM did at $185 million and it didn’t even make a third of that movie. And yet they are paying Pine as if the last movie was some big hit and the cast salaries is partly why Beyond cost what it did and why it didn’t even break even. Just insanity.

This is probably why its getting stalled. This is only my guess but they are probably trying to find a way to lower the budget on the other end and they are adjusting script changes for that and probably keep hitting a brick wall.

It’s just comical at this point.

It an apples and oranges comparison then, because I can guarantee you that Pine never gets anything approaching the back end deals, profit sharing, and other revenue streams that Cruise gets on one of his movies.

I get the rest of your argument that Pine is overpaid, but the Cruise comparison is not really viable, that’s all. Pine just shows up to play his part and get his salary with maybe a very minor profit sharing component at best, whereas Cruise is part of the team creating and producing the movie, so he has tons of gravy-train $$$ available to him that Pine will never see on a Trek movie. Apples and oranges.

Is Pine overpaid at $13 Mil? Maybe, but that number really isn’t that large for the lead in a movie of this type.

It doesn’t matter, the point is if they are TRYING to make a film less than the last one, well then a big part of that is lowering the salaries. That’s of course what they tried to do four years ago (WOW) and we know what happened lol.

Obviously I’m not making a direct comparison to Tom Cruise. I know that. He actually prefers to get a smaller salary because it helps get the movie greenlit and he knows unless his movie REALLY bombs he’s going to make tens of millions. I’m only saying even what they pay him as a salary is because he makes movies that actually MAKES a ton of money. Chris Pine does not.

But I don’t care what they pay Pine. They can pay him a $100 million it’s their money. But they are making the same mistake as before and I think THEY know that too and the budget is probably bloated. I mean it’s why they can’t get a movie off the ground because its obvious the people making these movies don’t have a clue. They know they are not going to make the money as the big boys but don’t seem to know how to lower them to a more modest budget.

And then we wait for probably another two years before they start again lol. This is honestly why I thought they were going to go with a different cast. It’s just becoming cost prohibitive for a movie series that only averages $400 million a film but pays the cast like they are in an Avengers movie.

Dude, the main leads in the Marvel movies movie get like between $20 and $50 million. I think your comparisons are kind of out of date — Pine at $13 mil is not close to those salaries?

$13 mil for a lead for a Star Trek movie doesn’t seem all that expensive to me…$13 mil just ain’t that expensive for genre movie leads these days.

Again you’re counting BACK END DEALS. That’s different. And clearly Marvel can do that because the movies make so much money.

But Pine is making a salary off a movie franchise that barely breaks even BECAUSE of how much the films cost in the first place. That’s all I’m saying man. He actually makes more than John Boyega and Daisey Ridley did for their Star Wars movies and those made billions of dollars. Do you know how much Tom Holland made for Spider-Man No Way Home? $5 million! And that made $1.6 billion alone and his sixth movie as Spider-Man.

Pine is getting paid waaaay too much and those guys are obviously getting paid too little for what those movies make. So no, that is NOT a common salary for most stars today unless you are driving billions of dollars in a franchise movie series and Pine is definitely not doing that.

And lastly, the last movie BOMBED! Again, that’s kind of an issue when you are paying someone millions of dollars for a film you can’t even guarantee will make its money back. If he was playing Spider Man and not Captain Kirk, OK, I can agree lol.

Patrick Stewart allegedly made 14 million on Nemesis, a movie with a 60 million total budget. Stewart was sure that Paramount needed him so he went all in.
Paramount can’t really do another Kelvin movie without Pine as Kirk so he is in a very good bargaining position. Even if Paramount changes their mind and goes back to the drawing board, it doesn’t seem like Pine is hurting for work.

Dude we’ve had this conversation like 3 times before. Yes I know, I know, I know. And as I said before it’s why that was the last TNG movie. But they kept everything else down in terms of cost but it still bombed.

Again Paramount has NO clue what they are doing. And I don’t think Kelvin movies really earn enough to be that important. This is the entire point. The first two movies did a little over break even at the BO and then the third one bombed. And that was six years ago. And yet they are giving Pine a salary as if Star Trek was an MCU film. We wouldn’t still be waiting 6 years later if they were actually that important. And we’re probably be waiting for another year or two at this rate.

And Stewarts $14 mil is probably like $25 mil if you convert it to today’s dollars, DOUBLE Pine’s rate.

Yea, whether anyone likes Pine or not, $13M for a lead in a movie that’s going to do probably $500 mil globally seems eminently reasonable to me.

I don’t get the sticker shock — this is probably about the going rate for a medium-size box office international release.

Yea, whether anyone likes Pine or not, $13M for a lead in a movie that’s going to do probably $500 mil globally seems eminently reasonable to me.

This is the ENTIRE problem man! This is it in a nutshell. They are paying someone on what they HOPE to make, not on actual projections and data. That was literally what happened with Star Trek Beyond. They thought that film was going to make $500+ million as well and in reality it made less than $400 million and six years later we are waiting to see if they make another one because the last one performed so badly.

When your last movie bombs, you should be thinking less, not more. Especially since a Star Trek film has never even made $500 million.You talk about it like it’s a guarantee and the last movie didn’t break even. Only one film got close to that and that was due to China which the next one has no guarantees of even showing in. It’s not Marvel. It’s not Star Wars. It’s not D.C. It’s not Harry Potter. Hell, it’s not even the Secrets Life of Pets. It’s Star Trek. They should accept that and budget accordingly.

Do you honestly not see the problem? Trust me, someone at Paramount does and exactly WHY there is so many hold ups with these films. Exactly why they didn’t want to even pay the guy what he was owed back in 2018.

It’s mindboggling they are making the exact same mistake lol. And I like Pine as an actor, but he is not a star. Every non-franchise film he leads has bombed minus 1 or 2. He had a new movie out recently called The Contractor and that died opening weekend. I don’t know how much it made, but not a lot. And yet he makes MORE money. It’s so bizarre how Hollywood works at time.

You seem much more passionate and concerned about this than I am, and that’s fine.

At the end of the day, I just wasn’t surprised in the slightest that Pine is getting $13 mil for this, because that’s in the ballpark of what I would have expected. And I think he is an A-minus level star — my opinion — and that confirms about this salary range for me on a film that can reasonably be expected to make about $500 mil in today’s dollars (equivalent to what 2009 and STID made in those year dollars of around $400 mil). I consider Beyond a single outlier, like Trek V and Nemesis, so I am not buying your case that that single movie marks a downward financial trend — again, just my own opinion, and it’s fine that you don’t share it — I would need to see that happen for two movies in a row before I was convinced that was an actual trend (Beyond was the worst marketed Trek movie in history, BTW).

Sorry, man, but I am just not alarmed or upset about this. We will have to agree to disagree on this.

Well yeah because I like to see another movie in the next FIVE years lol. And it just keeps stalling and stalling and stalling. His salary is ridiculous and probably part of the problem of the film going forward. If we were talking about him getting paid for an Avengers movie, I wouldn’t blink because I know they don’t have to think about the budget.

These movies clearly do. And as I said it’s probably not moving because it’s still just too high. I’m not saying his salary alone, I mean overall. The budget is probably still too big for what Paramount wants to pay. But this is also the problem when you announce a movie and a cast coming back before you inform them first. And I find it hypocritical Pine was saying how these movies shouldn’t strive for billion dollar box office and yet he’s getting paid like it’s going to make tons of money.

If they sign them on and it’s green lit in a few months, OK, fine at least a movie will get made in theory. But I have my doubts at this point but I having them for four years now and counting. (sigh)

And didn’t I read that Myer is now turning his Khan story into a podcast. I thought I read that here?

Ah, right, thanks for the reminder. Well that’s a missed opportunity then for a mini-series then, unfortunately.

I didn’t want it at all but sure would’ve watched it lol. I’ll listen to it if they make it on a podcast.

If Trek 14 started production today, it’s not hitting theaters until 2024. That’s eight years between movies. It’s pretty much going to have to be a stand-alone story, inspired by Trek (created by Gene Roddenberry). I’d mentioned on another post that while the BR movies had great revenue, across the three projects, they were probably break even. I suspect the reality is that Trek features from the last six movies were probably at or just above the break-even mark. I think the unspoken reality here is that the next Trek feature, regardless of what it looks like, really needs to be a box office home run. So far, nothing that’s proposed seems to be inspiring that kind of confidence.

Dude how did I end up talking about the Kelvin movies again lol. I’m sooo sick of talking about these movies in terms of the next one happening because its the same thing over and over again.

And yes, it’s no way the movie is coming out next year now. It’s basically August and they still don’t even have a starting date yet. It probably will be 2024 now. Eight freaking years between movies! And what’s scary is that can turn into 9 easily if 6 months from now they are still waiting on a start time. Can you imagine if we didn’t have the shows? Star Trek would basically feel pretty dead right now. Say what you want about the shows, but at least we are getting real content again.

And I’m not trying to put down the movies. I’m just frustrated as a fan. They should be on the fifth film now and we are still waiting to see if and when the fourth one will start. And I bet it’s because of money obviously. It could be a scripting issue, it could be trying to align schedules but I think the reality is the budget they have now is just too high and they are trying to find a way to slim it down. Especially if they are paying Chris Pine a ridiculous $13 million. What are these people smoking????

In the 80s and 90s, they understood the movies had a ceiling and geared the budgets to that. And for most part it worked. It’s why we got movies roughly every 2-3 years and with the exception of two of them they all made money. Nemesis was the only true bomb in the bunch.

Now they want to go bigger which is understandable but after 3 of these films and now a 15 year time gap and none of them made over 2.5 times of their budgets which is basically the break even points for most films these days, clearly the experiment is not working as hoped. And with so many shows on, they have have to change tactics to make the movies worth spending the money on, but same time with a lower budget. So it’s very tricky.

I hope I’m wrong and the next Kelvin movie is a huge hit. And for Star Trek terms, I’m only taking half a billion. But if the next one fails, then we are probably in for a long dry spell of 5-10 years UNLESS they go cheap and put it on Paramount+ or something.

If, as you said, the theatrical releases of Beyond and 2009 broke even, then that’s a nice financial success consider in the years that followed you have a recurring profit stream from Multiple Streaming Sources, TV (sat/cable), discs (DVD, BR, and now 4K) — and all of this across both North American and international markets.

Fans tend to always forget this and whine about how these movies just broke even. Well they did not, and far from it. Paramount is laughing all the way to the bank on Trek 2009 and STID, and I have no doubt that even Beyond has probably broken even by now when including these additional revenue sources.

Beyond didn’t ‘break even’! If it ‘broke even’ it should’ve made at LEAST $370 million for its ridiculous $185 million budget. It didn’t, it only made $345 million. And when you add in the crazy $120 million marketing budget, it’s even less so.

2009 and STID did better, but no, NOT great. STID was the most expensive movie in the studios history at the time and it only made half of what Transformers 3 did which cost nearly the same.

I have no doubt all these films made money for Paramount, the problem is the ROI is still very low given their budgets and distribution.

I understand people like the movies and they want to think the Kelvin movies are doing well. If they did better we wouldn’t still be waiting on another movie to be green lit 6 years after the last one.

But I want to make this clear. I know I come off as a negative nancy when I discuss these movies, but it’s out of frustration not dislike. I DO like the Kelvin movies. I would be fine if they made another trilogy of them. But Paramount has SQUANDERED these movies and that’s where I feel frustrated. If they made them a tad cheaper, focus more on stories that makes LOGICAL sense instead of short changing the plot because you treat it like an action movie and don’t have huge CGI set pieces every ten minutes while coming up with something besides a supervillain trying to blow up the galaxy these could be better movies and made faster in the process.

But because they are trying to compete with Star Wars and Marvel, they are spending money on them that doesn’t need to be spent on and only decrease their chances of success because when you have budgets the size of Transformer movies you expect the same output or at least close to it. But Paramount has adopted the mantra go big or go home and why they are in the pickle they are in with them.

You missed my point. I am saying that given the post-theatrical revenue streams (see my other post please where I list these), I would bet that Beyond has now broken even by now.

And because of those revenue streams, you can bet that 2009 and STID are well into the gravy train revenues now given those post-theatrical revenue streams. Heck, I bought both the iTunes of Trek 2009 and the BR, and as soon as I get my my 4K projector delivered next month, I will be buying the 4K BR of it…and then I also got the novelization audiobook and the Countdown comic 4 issues, plus the glossy movie magazine. That’s like $125 in post-theatrical revenue right there from a single fan of the movie! And the profit margin for Paramount on these non-theatrical/post-theatrical revenue streams is much higher than for the theatrical release, plus the costs to produce these items are low.

I agree I think Beyond has probably made money now. I just still think it’s nowhere on the level of higher tier films but obviously I don’t know.

But I also think if the next film bombs then yeah it will probably be easier to make smaller films and just put it on streaming and buying it on digital. It can still be in the theater I just mean not something that needs to cost $150+ million and distribute it in China to make a profit. Cut it in half and make it for the fans like the TOS and TNG films. Again only if the next one bombs or underperforms. Because it if does we will be waiting probably even longer, especially now that the TV side is at least lucrative.

I hate to sound cynical but I just think the time for these films are over in terms of being huge tentpole films. They didn’t strike when the iron was hot, too much lag time between movies and it was the same generic supervillain story and the newbies got bored. By the end it was just the same old fans showing up to watch it by the time Beyond came out. That’s why I feel they really squandered it in so many ways but maybe the next will excite people again if it comes out before 2030?

You might be right. We’ll see.

I know some hardcore fans have an endless appetite for anything with the title “Star Trek” on it, but with so much product on television right now (and for a franchise that has just about always been at its best in that medium), it’s hard for me to imagine what kind of Trek film could get me excited at this point.

I don’t disagree at all. That’s probably why 6 years on (Beyond had it’s sixth anniversary this past weekend) we are still waiting for another one. And waiting and waiting and…

This is ONLY my speculation but I’m guessing due to Paramount+ and the incessant need for more and more content another movie is even being weighed right now. Yes I understand they have enough Star Trek shows for the next decade to keep fans happy but they still want to diversify the brands for different audiences. And my guess if the Kelvin movie doesn’t happen OR it does happen and bombs, any film after that one will be smaller and geared towards streaming.

So I can see a smaller TNG or even animated films. Or just anything with legacy characters. They probably would consider a SNW movie down the line when it finished its run as a show but again probably geared to P+ and a smaller budget.

Now if the next movie goes the way of Top Gun Maverick, ignore everything I just wrote. ;D

Beyond was an outlier in that it was the worst marketed Trek movie of all time, and this was exacerbated by a late change of the release date to late summer to coincident with the freaking Olympics. That Paramount leadership was broke and not functional, and so we got a marketing effort on the level of a John Carter F-up (another example of a good movie let down by horrid marketing).

I would need to see two poor financially performing Star Trek movies in a row before I agreed with those of you here that are saying one Trek movie’s bad performance represents an actual trend. I have been a Trek fan for decades, and I remember some fans trying to claim this same trend after the single movie failure of Trek V and Nemesis, yet the financial situation was easily turned around for the next movie.

Besides, in Statistics 101 your professor will tell you that a single data point is never considered a trend — and in general, this violates common sense as well.

Show me two in a row, then I will buy into this.

The next movie can make money, I’m not doubting that. But what I am doubting (and has been for a long long time) is that if they continue the budgets of the last two films then its VERY questionable at this point. That’s really what I mean. And I have always been consistent in that because frankly ALL of the Kelvin films budgets has just been too high. I was saying this back in 2016 when Beyond came out and I was proven more than right.

We had this conversation a few months ago, but the problem is the international box office is just too soft for the budget of these films and there is nothing to suggest the next one is going to suddenly have a dramatic shift. It can, but based on what? Is there a country that has become Star Trek crazy in the last few years? What if they don’t get into China, then how certain are you? Because believe me, China is still a huge factor for these films. And if you take away the U.S. box office for all of them (09, STID, STB) they would’ve all bombed. There is no way to spin it and that’s the biggest hurdle.

That’s why you have to lower the budget and push it for an American audience because that’s where it’s going to have the biggest impact. And even that has fallen a lot between 2009 to Beyond, but if they can keep it at least what Beyond did in the U.S. and a budget of around $130 million then I think it should be fine.

But I suspect it’s going to be $175 million lol. And don’t be shocked if the film does around $400 million because internationally Star Trek is still too soft of a franchise. Yes better than Beyond but still pretty weak for a ‘tentpole’ movie. They lose China and that number can fall lower fast. Maybe all the new streaming shows shown internationally will make a difference but I have no idea. Or if it would be better or for worse?

(LOL how did I start talking about this movie????? Sigh)

We’ll see. I am hoping for the best. I just don’t think Pine’s $13 mil is that big of a driver though — we’ll always disagree on that I imagine.

I can be a little more charitable, but if they can at least keep it to the first film’s budget of around $150 million then it will be probably be fine too if it makes the same as Beyond did in America. Beyond would’ve at least broken even if that was it’s original budget.

But now you’re paying your main actors $13 freaking million to star in it so good luck on that lol.

Moral of the story, this is why Star Trek just fits better on TV/streaming.

That’s will be extremely hard given inflation…that’s probably equivalent to $200 mil today, but I get what you are saying.

I don’t know, I am burnt out on Marvel movies, yet Marvel Movie #27 is closing on $1B in revenues. So I think the studio marketing departments know better than our fan conjecture here.

Totally, 100% it was pitch. And I am totally in for another movie. Very likely they are trying to see if they could bring Picard for a crossover in the Kelvin Universe.

Oh dear. It’s not that I don’t love Khan, but maybe it’s time to move on. They’ve been trying to find another Khan, that scenery chewing big bad out for vengeance, for so many years.

Nero is underated as fulfilling that role, in my opinion. He came the closest to pulling this off, but Montelban-Khan will never be equaled.

I think Gul Dukat is a waaay better villain than Khan in my opinion. Khan only had two appearances but Gul Dukat had almost his own co-starring credit on DS9. And, yeah, Khan did some damage to Captain Kirk and the TOS crew but he wasn’t responsible for Spock’s death, personally. Spock willingly sacrificed himself to save the Enterprise.

That’s a lot different and can’t be attributed to Khan’s return because it was a self-sacrifice. Whereas Gul Dukat killed Jadzia Dax himself and he was a major factor in the Dominion being able to come to the Alpha Quadrant and start their war against the Federation. He was a major component in the occupation of Bajor. He wanted utter galactic domination and was willing to unleash the reality-destroying Pah-Wraiths to get it.

He was an egomaniac on a scale unseen of ever before in Star Trek when DS9 premiered. That’s why I think Gul Dukat will always be the ultimate Star Trek villain, with all due respect to Ricardo Montalban, who’s since passed away from us and may he rest in peace.

Live long and prosper, One Lion 🖖

Interesting! He certainly is a compelling baddie that we know better than Khan. However, as it doesn’t appear as if any DS9 characters are going to show up, then it’s going to be a little odd for Picard and Gul Dukat to have that same chemistry as Kirk and Khan. My memory may be wrong, but did the two ever meet on screen?

Also, Khan’s attack led to Spock’s eventual death. If Khan doesn’t show up, Spock does not die. So Khan is responsible for Spock’s death in my book. No worries if you disagree.

Your right about Spock. I was just thinking that, you know, Khan never left the Reliant so that’s why I don’t count Spock’s death being counted as one of his because it was really the warp core breach. But the warp core breach wouldn’t have happened if they didn’t fight Khan so I get your point. Khan is definitely a good villain.

I can’t take nothing from him because he’s only made two appearances and look at the imprint he’s left on people. The Wrath Of Khan will always be considered the greatest Star Trek movie of all and that’s because of him. I’m not knocking him 🙂. I like Khan.

My Mom loved Khan. My wife likes him too. Ricardo Montalban was truly a great actor. I’m watching Fantasy Island and I’ve never seen it before, the original one.

It’s not bad and that’s because of him. We should also take a minute to say goodbye 🫂 to another member of the Star Trek family who has passed, David Warner. He passed away today. He played Gul Madred on TNG and I forget his character’s name but he was also in Star Trek V.

R.I.P. David Warner 🕊️.

Live long and prosper, One Lion

Yea, RIP David Warner!

Good comments, BTW.

PS: Your comments on Dukat did get me thinking to that alternate future we saw in Picard S2 where an alternate Picard I believe had Dukat’s skull for a souvenir. I doubt that is an Easter egg-foreshadowing of Picard vs. Dukat in S3, but you never know?

Kurtzman & Co don’t seem to understand. Wrath of Khan wasn’t the best film because it had a scenery chewing revenge story. It was the best because it dealt with personal issues with Kirk, finished up Spock’s story and gave us something we never saw before.

Tiger 2, this is funny, because just yesterday you and I were conceptually talking about them revisiting the abandoned D saucer!

True! It would be cool if that’s what they ended up doing.

I actually watched the entire panel yesterday and I was surprised how informative it was. They didn’t give a lot away but as the article shows, enough. I think we actually learned more about Picard season 3 than we did Lower Decks season 3 and that is out in a month.

And most of it sounds great. And I actually missed the part that stated Seven would be a First Officer. I assumed captain but this is still cool. And I’m guessing (like many) she’s probably on an Enterprise! And maybe serving under a Captain Riker? Yeah I know the chances are probably slim but let a fanboy dream! ;D

Again I want to be excited, but I remember that excitement I had for both seasons 1 and 2 and both didn’t end up so well. But this does at least have the TNG cast and the Enterprise back so the potential is there for a true TNG experience!

What web site can you watch those on? Thanks

Just on Youtube. Just type in Star Trek SDCC 2022 and they should all come up!

THANKS! I should have realized it would be that simple. LOL

Optimism, my dear Tiger2! Another Season with Sir Patrick. I actually had fun watching Picard after 5-6 episodes were available. I watched the first two, watched them twice, and waited few weeks to watch the rest at my own pace.

I feel Picard is not serialized. It’s a movie chopped into pieces. Trust me. It is more enjoyable watching the whole season all at once.

The waiting to begin will be bad, but much better than watching one “episode” each week. Especially when every other episode is not what you expect. =D

LOL, I am trust me! If I was really that bothered I wouldn’t be here discussing it at all. But that said I still prefer to remain cautious. But this one at least sounds like it’s getting back to TNG basics so I’m hopeful for sure.

And I don’t know if you watch those guys on Trekyards but they been talking to a bunch of people behind the scenes on the show and they seem very confident next season is going to be great and I usually agree with their viewpoints most of the time. So I’m feeling more confident next season will be great. Man I truly hope so!

I’m glad you are enjoying it!

Hope Matalas get the same positive vibes from Alonso, from SNW!

Definitely! And I have more faith because he has complete control of season 3 and its clearly the type of season he wanted!

Despite my issues with Picard Season 2, the one thing I really liked was the romance between Picard and Laris, and at the end of Season 2, it’s pretty obvious that they are a couple now romantically. And I think that worked great, and Orla Brady is a great actress, and her character seems such a perfect fit for Picard.

So if Matalas and company have Picard dump (let’s call it like it is and not pussyfoot around) Laris in favor of some late-life hook up with Beverley, I’m not going to be happy about it — I especially never saw any real chemistry there and don’t like the match for Picard — plus McFadden (nice lady who I enjoy seeing at conventions) isn’t close I believe to pulling off the very-hard-to-act love interest of Picard, whereas Brady does that seamlessly. I believe in that romance with Laris based on the acting, but I am skeptical that MacFadden has the acting chops to pull that off.

My opinion.

What’s with the “Khan-level villain” claim? People have been misrepresenting Khan for decades. He’s met the Enterprise crew three times and been soundly defeated each time. Despite what the writers of Into Darkness had Spock say, Khan is not the most dangerous villain Kirk has ever faced. Far from it. Khan is a chump who loses every fight he has. He’s such an overrated and one-dimensional villain.

Yea, because so many other villain’s have won against Kirk and Picard. Not! Lol

Khan effectively killed Spock, killed Scotty’s nephew, and tore up the Enterprise to the extent that it was to be sent to the scrap heap.

Nuff said.

Agreed. His legendary status is due to Montalban, really. Gotta to give it up for him for elevating that role. But without him, it’s a bad guy with muscles.

Khan successfully took over the original Enterprise and threw Kirk in a hyperbaric chamber, nearly killing him if not for Lt. McGivers temporarily realizing how nuts that it was that she went along with Khan. And then, Kirk works out a truce where they leave them on a planet to do their own thing.

And, yeah, Into Darkness sucked.

Agreed, and then effectively killing Spock and Scotty’s nephew in Trek II, as well as damaging the Enterprise so badly that she was to be sent to the scrap heap.

Well, you could say likewise about Trelane for that matter. He held the Enterprise and could’ve easily killed Kirk by leaving him in the toxic atmosphere.

Okay, where’s our Trelane movie?! I’m half-joking here, but I wouldn’t be totally against seeing him again. A powerful obnoxious man-child with an obsession for nostalgia and the military and with a habit of reducing people down to racial and cultural stereotypes is holding everyone hostage… seems like you could get some political commentary out of that. Ahem-hem.

You know, I have always wondered if Trelane and his parents were part of the Q Continuum?

Me too.

Just for fun, let’s say they do bring back Trelane. Who would you cast in the role?

It would be a budget buster, but I could see RDJ in the part.

Guys, Johnny Depp 2.0 may be available soon — that would be interesting for this role!

RDJ I could see as well.

Read the book Star Trek: The Next Generation: Q-Squared by Peter David. It’s a great story with Trelane and Q going against each other in it and, in the story, it is revealed that Trelane is a Q and it also reveals who the being was that was in possession of Gary Mitchell during “Where No Man Has Gone Before”. It’s not canon but it is a very cool Star Trek story to read nonetheless.

Live long and prosper, One Lion 🖖

Thanks. I do mainly audiobooks, and I wish that Audible would update a lot of Trek novels to unabridged narrations instead of the lame 2-3 hour abridged narrated audiobooks — for this one they have a 2.5 hour abridged version only. I may still give it a go though — cool story it certainly sounds like!

Yes, I do agree, One Lion. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t do the Trek audio novels. But if you do have the chance to get it, check it out anyways because Peter David is a phenomenal Star Trek author. Not only does that story have Q and Trelane in it but it also has a done of alternate Enterprise-D’s and many different alternate versions of the TNG crew in it too.

Its also got tons of action in it. Trust me, you won’t be sorry, even if you get the abridged version 🙂.

Live long and prosper, One Lion 🖖

Thanks, Johnny. Years back I read David’s novel that had Guinan, Picard and the Doomsday Machine it it — that was a very good read!

I welcome comments from anyone who does not have a history of harassing me as a troll.

Me too! And I would add to this that we should also welcome anyone talking Star Trek rather than hiding behind BS about others.


I think Khan’s biggest problem was that his emotions got the better of him at the end. I mean if you watch the ending of TWOK carefully you see that at a certain point Khan’s right hand man Joachim was acting much more calmly and rationally than Khan and if Khan had only listened to Joachim’s suggestions he would have maybe come on on top of Kirk but Kirk has that effect on people. He annoys them to the point of irrationality and wins the day in the end.

Sela. I’m calling it now.

I hope to see thrice the Enterprise in the final season of Picard: D, E and F.

It’s very funny that they are making a big deal out of the Big Bad being a SHE as though Secret Hideout has done something groundbreaking, because the “villains” of the first two seasons have been SHEs (Commodore Oh and her spin kicking sidekick in s1, Borg Queen and Picard’s Mom in s2). Wasn’t Discovery’s villain in season 3 an Orion woman? Wasn’t Evil Georgiou basically s1 Disco’s villain?

Wasn’t Evil Georgiou basically s1 Disco’s villain?

No. She turned out to be a person on a redemptive arc, soon after being introduced.

First, I assume Kurtzman wasn’t speaking in bold and italics, so I’m not sure ‘they’ are doing anything. But Lorca was Disco S1 villain. S2 was an AI possessing a dude. S3 was an Orion woman. S4 was an alien race.

Not sure Oh is really the villain of Picard, but I can see that argument. Narek is as much of of a villain, I think. The villain was really ideologies and not necessarily specific people. Same with Borg Queen in S2. She’s an antagonist for a lot of it, but so are Soong and Q and ICE and the FBI and GOP policy, generally.

I’m pretty sure the entire purpose of highlighting the villain being a woman isn’t to say, ‘look at us using women as villsins’. It’s just meant to be a clue for fans to dwell on.

I am CONCERNED about everyone in the crew being in diff parts of the galaxy
and they all come together eventually. I hope the whole show isnt picard rounding each person up and the last episode is the only episode with all of them in it! Round them up sure…. but round them up by like episode 3! Please!

Man, is there a lot to unpack in this article! Now we might get a TNG movie on top of the movie experience that we’re supposed to be getting in Picard season 3. That would be coo! I’d go and see it, definitely 👍! Beverly Crusher gallivanting around the galaxy is something I thought she might’ve done. I had come up with some speculation that maybe Beverly was doing a Doctor’s Beyond Borders -type thing and going to places where the Federation doesn’t get to and offering medical assistance?

I also speculated that I could see her doing this with Dr.Bashir. Maybe he’s gonna be one of the characters from DS9 that we’ll be seeing next year in Picard season 3? I’ve got a feeling that the Quickening is going to play a part in the next season. But that’s just speculation.

We are just getting one villain next year, that’s been confirmed, and it’s a woman actress who can play mind games against Admiral Picard. Let the speculation begin! Maybe it’s Cate Blanchett? She would make for a pretty great villain.

I can see her playing mind games against Sir Patrick and it would be fantastic! Or maybe it’s Dame Helen Mirren? It would be magnificent to watch her play mind games against Picard ❤️.

I think her and Sir Patrick might even be friends and if that’s the case, it would be easy for Sir Patrick to get her to come and do Picard season 3. So maybe it is her? It’s gotta be an Oscar-caliber actress. Maybe it’s Lena Headey from Game of Thrones?

All she did was play mind games on GoT so she would be perfect to play someone who plays mind games against Picard. Lena Olin would be another great actress who could play mind games against Picard. She was phenomenal on Alias as Sydney Bristow’s Mom, Irina Derevko, and she was great in Romeo Is Bleeding. I could definitely see her playing massive mind games with Picard and enjoying it too.

So much speculation! I wish they would just unveil who our villain is and who’s playing her already 🙂. As for Sir Patrick saying that we’ll see”multiple Enterprises” next year, I will enjoy that because I love any chance I have to see the Enterprise, any of them. I don’t remember if the Enterprise-E had carpeting on her, though. I know the D did but I’m not sure if the E did. I never saw it in the movies, anyways.

But I think it’s the D and the E. I’m starting to think that maybe the D and the E will be pitted against one another in battle? Terry Matalas said that this season of Picard will have a “submarine movie” feel to it. Alex Kurtzman and him keep mentioning The Wrath Of Khan and that movie pitted two Starfleet ships against one another.

I think Picard season 3 is going to pit the Enterprise-E against the Enterprise-D. I speculate that whoever our villain is has probably discovered the remains of the Enterprise-D, rebuilt her, and is going to use her to destroy the Federation. Yes, I know the saucer is in a museum but the lower half isn’t. This alien race that our villain belongs to may have come across the burnt-husk of a shell of the lower half of the Enterprise-D and could’ve went on her and found that her computer banks were still workable and pulled up a schematic of her.

Then our villain could’ve said that she wanted that ship rebuilt the way it was so they could use it against the Federation. Maybe to show the Federation what weapons of war their ships could be? If the two Enterprises do get pitted against each other, that will be pretty cool 👍🙂. And Picard and his crew won’t set foot on the Enterprise-D probably until they’re able to shut her back down.

So the TNG crew will be on the Enterprise-D again but not for that long, I’m afraid. That’s why Sir Patrick made the joke about the Enterprise having carpeting. The D is the only Enterprise with carpeting on it because it was more of a family ship and the E was built more for war with its quantum torpedoes and everything. Hopefully, we’ll definitely learn more about Picard season 3 soon 🙂.

Live long and prosper, Trekmovie 🖖

Lol That would be a very short movie. The ENT-D never lasted very long in combat and was destroyed countless times due to warp core breaches and inability to eject the warp core. Best to keep that flying hotel on Verdian 3.
OMG – the Ent-Q will have 32 quantum torpedo launchers and 200 phaser banks, etc. ZZzzzzzz.. Sounds good when your 12, generic bland Star Wars capital ship dual without any sense of strategy on screen.

Not if they upgraded it. I think you are too quick to dismiss this. I do think we are somehow going to see the D in S3.

Exactly, One Lion! The Enterprise-D could be heavily more weaponized than she was before. We don’t know what alien race is coming for the Federation this time so we don’t know how advanced they are. They could be way more advanced than the Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans all combined.

We don’t know and we won’t know until we get more info about Picard season 3, either at Star Trek:Las Vegas or on Star Trek Day.

Live long and prosper,One Lion 🖖

Man, you’re a real pessimist, aren’t you? If you don’t like Star Trek, don’t watch it. Paramount’s not hurting for money after the massive success of Top Gun: Maverick. So losing your subscription wouldn’t really bother them 😄🤣😆.

I hear they are doing great with Strange New Worlds.
I don’t know, could be the action, adventure, exploration, colonization of the universe, adults too busy to play holodeck, starships that can hold their own and individually decide the fate of the galaxy, etc.

Yup, they are. I watch that too. That’s my favorite new Star Trek show, especially since the Enterprise is on it. Just like the Enterprise was on TNG and she’s coming to Picard.

If you don’t like Picard, that’s your choice. It doesn’t bother me none. Paramount is still making it and, as long as there are Star Trek shows on TV, then those are considered canon and I am a Trekkie and have been one since 1991 so I will continue to watch ALL of the shows that come out. You can make your own choice about watching Star Trek or not. But I’m a Trekkie who supports it all and has since 1991.

Trust me, Paramount or Alex Kurtzman would care less if you stop watching Star Trek. The wheels will keep turning, irregardless.

Dude that guy is a troll. Just do what 90% of these boards do already and ignore his posts. I really wish we could block people like this and just talk to people who actually like Star Trek and not people just trying to bait others because they are that bored in their life.

And it’s funny, he claims to love SNW and yet never post in any of the threads lol. Never wrote a single review for any of the episodes all season. But yet here he is trolling again for a show he supposedly ‘hates’. I hate ‘fans’ like this.

He’s an elitist. Thanks for the heads up, Tiger2 🙂👍.

Live long and prosper, Tiger2 🖖

Yeah he’s the type of fan you run away from at a convention lol. I can’t even read his posts anymore because it’s always the exact same talking points. He literally says the exact same phrases over and over and over again. It’s like he cut and paste his posts for time or something.

It’s no point. That’s why I talk to people who actually love Star Trek, not turn the franchise into a silly competition or spend your day complaining about differences in a fictional setting. If you don’t like a show that’s fine, but stop making Star Trek miserable for the rest of us. We actually enjoy the franchise and a healthy debate over it, not just to act smug because you think a TV show is somehow beneath you and wants EVERYONE to know it. I just can’t anymore with that guy lol.

Yeah, sounds like another person on here I’ve run across – The River Temarc. He doesn’t respond to anything personally, just cuts and pastes. And he tries to start an argument over the most ridiculous stuff. Yesterday he tried to argue with me about a fictitious museum that may or may not exist in the Picard-era but he said SNW and I didn’t mention SNW in my post.

I told him that he was utterly ridiculous for trying to start a fight over something that may or not exist in a fictitious story 😄. So I know what you’re talking about. And I ain’t got the time to argue with these people because of my medical condition, you know, Tiger2, and I just want to conversate with the people who actually love Star Trek, like us, so thanks for the heads up and for looking out 🙂.

Live long and prosper, Tiger2 🖖

I don’t want to talk bad about other members obviously, although The River Tarmac is very close to burning all his DVDS in protest lol. I think it’s hard when you are a fan of something you love but you’re clearly not enjoying it anymore. And we all have our good days and bad.

But the other guy is just annoying because he’s not here to have an actual discussion. He only posted to mock you and tell you why you are wrong for liking a show no one is forcing him to watch with the exact same talking points he’s been spewing for probably 20 years now. Do you remember when I talked about how some people like to ‘hate watch’ a show? Well now you know what I’m talking about lol. And it’s a waste of time trying to even have a conversation with people like that. I tried for years with him, I stopped a year ago. It’s just exhausting to try and have a normal conversation. It’s why I don’t even bother discussing these shows on Youtube anymore unless it’s places that are positive about the franchise as a whole even if they still have issues with certain shows or movies.

I just want to talk to people who can have rational conversations even if we disagree. But arguing with nerds who take a fictional TV show TOO seriously is not worth it anymore so I don’t bother and would block them if I could.

I don’t either, Tiger2. I was just making a comparison that maybe The River Temarc and Cmd.Bremmon are one and the same. Because Temarc mentioned SNW on the Picard page and Bremmon mentions SNW on the Picard page and both were conversations about Picard, not SNW. That’s all.

Most of my encounters on here with others have been pleasant so I have no reason to talk about others. I also do agree about YouTube. I am a part of some of the horror movie channels and it turns nasty sometimes, not all of the time. I stay away from Star Trek, Star Wars, and the MCU stuff on YouTube because it just gets nuts!

And I just don’t understand how a person can continue to watch something if they hate it so much? I’ll use myself as an example. The MCU, some of the shows I don’t watch. I just don’t like some of them so I don’t watch them.

I get disappointed sometimes when I watch them because I’m expecting one thing but something else completely different happens and I get disappointed, like with Moon Knight. It was a good show but I was expecting certain characters that just didn’t show up now I’m taking a break from it and won’t watch another show until She-Hulk because Daredevil’s in it. But I’m not gonna force myself to watch stuff that I don’t like. That just doesn’t make much sense to me.

It seems to me like people just want to spread hate, instead of love, and I wasn’t raised to be that way by my Mom. She taught me to be respectful and she taught me to care about other people’s feelings. And if you don’t have anything positive to say, then don’t say anything at all. That’s my creed 🙂.

It’s gotten me through life so far and it got me my wife 🙂 ❤️ so I must be doing something right.

Live long and prosper, Tiger2 🖖

Oh no, they are definitely two different people. The River Tarmac has his quirks like we all do but you can have a rational conversation with him at times. He gives me LOTS of crap too at times lol, so I understand what you mean, but I don’t take it personally. I think he’s just frustrated in the overall direction of the shows which is OK. But yeah if you are that frustrated then its time to take a break. But it’s hard when you been invested so long.

The other guy is just annoying. I’m not going to say anymore about this because I don’t come here to badmouth people and per usual, way off topic lol. But it really bothered me how he tried to mock you because you’re just being a fan who ***gasp***, enjoying a TV show. The same franchise we all are supposedly fans of and support. I was going to keep my mouth shut but I spoke up. It wasn’t what he said so much of how he said it. And he does it ALL the time here. I just hate people like this.

Anyway, I’ve said all I wanted on that guy. And it will be the last time I mention it.

As for your other point, why do people watch stuff they hate, I think part of it is just being a fan of course. You still want to stay in the loop of things and to talk to others about it. And because everything is so connected and serialized like MCU even stuff you don’t really want to watch you still do because it all connects to everything else. That is the ONE thing about Star Trek and that while it’s all connected, you still don’t feel you have to watch one show to understand what’s happening in the others. But most still watch it all anyway, including the haters.

Its a difference when you don’t like a show but you are hoping it wins you over versus people who watch something they think is just beneath them and yet they watch it anyway? I have never felt that way about any Trek show before and if I did I certainly wouldn’t be watching it.

I’ve never felt like a Trek’s show beneath me either, Tiger2. I even love TAS and sometimes that can get really silly but I still loved it, especially M’Ress and Arex. My Mom fell completely in love with TAS about 5 years ago. She never even knew that there was a cartoon for Star Trek back in the ’70s.

It was so funny, dude, the minute she saw Arex she immediately fell in love with him 😄! I used to tease her afterwards and tell that she’s gonna get married to Arex someday, she’d say back “If I could, I’d make him my husband. He looks pretty handsome 😄”. So when I say I love all the shows, I love them all. Sometimes I do ask myself, when new shows are announced, if that sounds like something I want to watch.

But I never question the intelligence of a Star Trek show. Prodigy is geared towards kids but I still love it and so don’t a lot of other adults. Lower Decks I really did struggle with in the beginning because of the canon breaking that takes place on it constantly. But I’ve done 3 rewatches and I realize that they’re just telling jokes and the jokes are pretty funny, especially the Cat🐈doctor, Dr.T’Ana😄.

Before I continue, just to be clear, I know she’s a Caitian. They’re one of my favorite races in Star Trek, even though they don’t show them a lot. But they are in a lot of Star Trek novels and that’s where I’ve had the most encounters with them. I even love Discovery to a point. I get what the show’s about.

My Mom wasn’t a fan of Discovery too much though. She didn’t like the camera angles or the swearing. I told her the show was different now but I didn’t have the time to reintroduce her to it before she passed. So I never question the intelligence of Star Trek.

How can you when it brings so much joy and hope to everyone who watches it? And thank you again for giving me a heads up about that guy, I appreciate it.

Live long and prosper, Tiger2 🖖

Yeah I don’t remember if I told you this but I actually watched TAS for the first time a year ago. That was the one show I did think was beneath me lol. In terms of the production, it just felt and looked cheap and so many people said it was really bad. But thanks to a few people here who encouraged me to try it, I finally did and yeah even with it’s problems it’s a decent show. I really loved the stories. But at the beginning I didn’t think I could get through the first season. And like your mother I liked Arex from the beginning. He grew on me fast.

TAS. odd to say, probably would be the show TOS would be with a bigger budget. You can just do a lot more in animation, especially character work. I really liked how imaginative it was and it was trippy Star Trek in the weirdest ways possible lol. From large Spock to meeting Satan in the middle of the galaxy it was outright bizarre at times TOS only hinted at.

I don’t know if I can watch it more regularly because the music drives me up the wall lol but its a good show.

And also agree about both LDS and PRO. To be honest I had my doubts about those too. LDS I’m surprised how much I like it. I was prepared for it to be too goofy and off the wall but it was the complete opposite. To me, it has a lot of heart and I fell in love with the characters right away. I think Mariner is a handful lol and definitely see why she’s a divisive character but I think she’s suppose to be obviously. But I really love her. And LDS feels like a Berman show in all the ways I missed that DIS and PIC didn’t have. Maybe if this show came out in the mid-90s I would feel differently but it’s placement today was perfect because we needed something just fun and light again with DIS and PIC just feeling too heavy and dour at times.

And I appreciated the show more once I watched TAS because I realized all the jokes and easter eggs they were using from that show. Dr. T’Ana is a hoot and want to see more Catians because of her. It wasn’t until LDS I even seen one before.

Prodigy I’m even more surprised by because they kept saying it was for kids and yet it’s a really complex show in so many ways and like LDS has heart. I was surprised how much I loved it but it too has great stories and the main mystery is a lot of fun. I rewatched the finale last week and can’t wait to see what’s next. I love the time travel element and how the ship can jump to so many places. And of course Janeway looking for Chakotay so yeah soooo excited when it comes back! :)

I’m sorry about your mother passing. She wasn’t a big Discovery fan (that’s not too uncommon these days lol) but she clearly loved Star Trek. My parents never did so you were lucky to have someone so close and grew up loving it that way.

And I agree, Star Trek has it’s bad moments but it’s still one of the most intelligent and thought provoking shows out there. TOS really set the bar high, especially for its time and then TNG and the others built on it and always made science first even when its fake science lol. But it still makes you think and all that matters! Even Lower Decks thrives on science and team work! So the basics is at the heart of most of these shows.

Anyway per usual we are getting way off topic lol. So this is my last post. I had the day off today and planned to do all these things but ended up staying at home wasting it away on this site lol. And its just crazy hot so always fun when I can talk about Star Trek!!!!!

This from the guy who was all “Star Trek must be the future” and past TNG, then when they go past TNG, you are all “must be TNG era.” Gag me with the hypocrisy.
Also the paid bots with the two random names.
I’m happy, I got what I wanted with SNW!!! = )
It’s sad, but I guess I am the only one that appreciates the return to Wagon Train in the Stars.
Except for all those other posts… which I just agree with. What do you want me to do when they are “SNW is awesome”, post “agree x 2?”

I never SAID that. This is why you are annoying, you misinterpret things all the time even when I have explained it over and over again.

I said I want Star Trek to go forward again but I NEVER had any problems if we had prequels too, I simply wanted one, O-N-E show that was a post-Nemesis show. But at the time from Enterprise to Discovery and the Kelvin movies, it was ONLY prequels and what bothered others like me because that’s all we had for nearly 20 years lol. But if we had 5 shows now and only one of those shows would’ve been a post-Nemesis show and the others set in earlier periods, I would’ve been fine with that. I’m shocked we have four shows post-Nemesis lol. I never expected it.

I have said many many MANY times I like to see Star Trek in multiple time periods like we have now. One show in the 24th century. Another in the 23rd century. One in the 26th century, etc, because it’s fun to see where the Federation is in different periods of its existence. I’m also the guy who has said I would love a fifth season of Enterprise and would take that over Picard and Discovery even though it’s waaaaay in the past. I can’t begin to recall how many times I have said things like this, but once again you either forgot or pretend not to remember.

And I’m happy we have SNW too since I love the show and wanted it since it was announced.

Dude this your problem, you constantly put people in boxes here. I like TNG, therefore I only want TNG even though I grew up watching TOS most of my life and DS9 is actually my favorite show. Again I have said this many times to you but you seem to dismiss it or constantly forget. Its why it’s a waste of time having a conversation with you. It’s like talking to a 10 year old.

And if you like SNW so much, go TALK about SNW lol. I have not seen a single post of yours discussing any of the episodes. Maybe I just missed them but for a guy who has spent 2 years dreaming about this show, you haven’t spent much time discussing it once it showed up. And yet here you are trolling people telling them how much TNG suck. No one cares man. If you love SNW, then maybe you should actually spend time in those threads. ;)

I think Picard season 3 is going to pit the Enterprise-E against the Enterprise-D. I speculate that whoever our villain is has probably discovered the remains of the Enterprise-D, rebuilt her, and is going to use her to destroy the Federation.

I really would like to see this!

Yup, me too, One Lion 🙂👍!

Live long and prosper, One Lion 🖖

….destroy the Federation (echo echo echo echo). Cue the dramatic music.
There. Much better. Where’s my Emmy?

As usual a lot of great ideas man! :)

I didn’t think about a set up of an Enterprise vs Enterprise situation happening. I’ll be honest I don’t know how I feel about that because I’m so attached to both of them lol. I know the D has been destroyed for a long time now but I don’t want it destroyed AGAIN if they rebuild it. But I’m an adult, I’ll get through it!

I’m just excited we will have at least 2 Enterprises and yes possibly 3!! I do want to see a new Enterprise launched and I have a feeling that’s the one Seven will be serving under. And maybe with with a TNG character as her captain.

I really don’t like the idea of another Khan-like villain but yeah its what Star Trek does over and over and over again. I am intrigued she’s a woman though. People seem to be assuming its Sela but I think Crosby made it clear she’s not on the show. But yes she could be just lying.

But I am loving all the hype Comic Con has brought out for this season and its obvious fans are really excited again to see our TNG heroes together again. I’m crossing my fingers we will get a great season but still cautious.

But it’s a great time to be a Star Trek fan! :)

I agree with you, Tiger2. There is a way that we could get three Enterprises. The F could be introduced and she could be chasing Picard and crew on the E, once again I have a feeling that they’re gonna “steal” the Enterprise, and they’re chasing after the D. And I believe the D is going to be so overpowered that it will probably take the E and the F to stop her.

I understand about your connection to the D. I never felt that connection for her. But I did feel it with the E and with the original Constitution-class Enterprise. I get choked up every time I see The Search For Spock and watch her plummeting through Genesis’ atmosphere and Captain Kirk goes “What have I done”?

And every time I watch First Contact or Insurrection, I get mad at Picard for always putting out there the option of blowing up the Enterprise! It’s like, C’mon, man, she’s like family, don’t blow her up so quickly, fight for her like Captain Kirk always did 🙂! So I understand what you mean. I don’t think she’s gonna get destroyed again during the big battle scene between the Enterprises in season 3 of Picard that I’m pretty sure is coming.

And the reason why I think that she’s not gonna get destroyed is because Sir Patrick talked about being on their original Enterprise, (which is more than likely the D that he’s talking about.)and not realizing that they had carpeting on it and how it caught him completely off guard. So I speculate that once they get the villain to stand down, Admiral Picard will beam aboard the Enterprise-D with his crew and they will pilot the D back to the Federation for the final time. We may even get signatures on the screen at the end of Picard season 3 too because Terry Matalas is a huge fan of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country 🙂. So don’t fret too much, Tiger2.

The D probably won’t get destroyed. As for getting a Khan-like villain, I don’t think they’re talking about getting an Augment for the villain, which is what I’m assuming is probably what you’re thinking. What Alex Kurtzman meant by that remark is that we’re getting a villain who is going to play massive mind games with Picard. Sir Patrick said during this panel that theren are going to be some really big shocks coming to Jean-Luc Picard in season 3. Maybe this mysterious woman villain tells him that she’s his daughter?

It’s a possibility. I mean when the person that plays the character says that there are some big shocks coming to the character that he’s playing than that’s gotta mean something massive is coming into the world of Jean-Luc Picard and what’s more massive than if he had a daughter that he didn’t know about and who harbors a grudge against him and his crew? So when you see “Khan-like villain”, Tiger2, don’t always jump to the Augments. Gul Dukat was a Khan-like villain and he played massive mind games with Commander/Captain Sisko.

Alex Kurtzman and Terry Matalas just use that phrase because TWOK is their favorite of the Star Trek movies and the both of them are just trying to give an inkling of what to expect from the villain that we’re getting without spoiling anything. As for Denise Crosby, I too don’t think she’s the villain. If anything, she should show up as Tasha Yar. Maybe in a holodeck sequence?

Just so that they can have the whole TNG crew back one more time on Picard. But Ms.Crosby is older now than when she played Tasha so I think it might be hard to get her to come back and do a scene like that? It would probably be easier to get her to play Sela but I seriously doubt that she’s involved in this story. She could be but I doubt it.

Live long and prosper, Tiger2 🖖

Yeah I don’t NEED three Enterprises or anything, I’m still happy with just the one. But you know fans, many latched on to the word ‘multiple’ and in some people’s minds that means more than two although multiple can mean two. ;)

But it would be cool. I never thought we would see the D again outside of flashbacks or a dream sequence like in season one. For them to all be back on that bridge would be nice. I know there is going to be ton of nostalgia and fan service this season (but all these shows have that EVERY season now ;)).

And now I’m thinking since it doesn’t sound like the Stargazer will be part of the season, maybe the next spin off show will take place on another Enterprise? Or maybe the ship Seven is on if it isn’t an Enterprise. I don’t think fans will be too upset to have an Enterprise on SNW and another one for a spin off show. You slapped that name anywhere, people become invested!

And I wasn’t just implying ‘Khan-like’ meant Augments. I actually gave an example using the last four movies and how all their villains are basically like Khan since they are scheming and felt they been wronged in some way. So no I don’t mean just super strong men, I’m just tired of the ‘VENGEANCE’ angle which people associate with Khan. And notice the specifically always talk about WOK and not Space Seed. So they are talking about the character specifically from that movie.

But I think you’re probably right and it’s going to be a stand off between Enterprises like TWOK and another reason it was brought up. Last time they really did it was in Nemesis.

I don’t really see Denise Crosby being back but it’s a leading theory on this board and I’m rarely right lol. So we’ll see but I doubt it too.

after the season 2 train wreck i’m afraid for season 3. reading kurtzman say we’ll slowly introduce each character means its gonna be a 10 episode run and it’ll take 7 episodes to get them all together, then 1 or 2 will die early as a twist and then the remaining 5-6 will basically do an old school tng 2 parter for the double episode finale. all these serialized stories on new trek have basically had 2 parter worth of story they just stretch out and add fluff to

and god help us….i hope they don’t pull a rise of skywalker and have the crew go back to Veridian III to find the enterprise and picard has to do a goonies style riddle with his old chess set

i’m surprised season 1 of SNW was as good as it was given PIC has been a hot mess and DISC is inconsistent (to be kind) and i’m truly shocked something like LD exists in new trek

i’d like to see the next enterprise….the F (not a fan of the fan design though) or the G and have it end with Riker finally captain of the enterprise

given they referred to the villain as she my guess for the villain is its Sela…it gets crosby in there so the whole gang is back together and maybe she uses Lore as a henchman to capture wesley (and the remaining 2 actors get to be back in)….cause why else would the band get back together other than ‘family’. and Sela is using Wesley / the traveler to go back in time for something related to the 1st romulan war, or the enterprise c or to bring her mom back from the dead.

ST is like family to me, i’ll be there for it and can’t give it up, but doesn’t mean i agree with all the decisions made…i like different….i loved the new BSG and the expanse and felt like PIC wanted to be a ripoff / homage to the expanse structurally….but what we got was a cbs primetime procedural like NCIS: Chateau Picard

“It’s another Enterprise!”

Khan-Level Villain? Like Wrath of Khan Kahn, or Into Darkness Khan? The way Picard has been going I’m betting the latter.

Well, STID Khan would be throwing a bone to those wondering where all the straight white men are….

Here we go again with a Khan villain comparison. Ugh.

Worst thing I could have read; every time a writer/director/producer says “Khan-level villain” everything gets tripped up.

I know it saved the franchise and all, but sometimes I wish TWOK wouldn’t have been made just to see where these guys would go with a storyline. (end rant)

Female villian reeks of Sela

Ricardo Montalkhan was great in TOS and the subsequent feature film. In all of his chestly greatness, he does not, however, need to become the TREK VILLAIN TEMPLATE.

Please move on from Khan. We’re laughing at the superior writing intellect.

A crossover movie between TNG and Kelvin Universe is a must. Maybe Picard wants to know the fate of Ambassador Spock.

As I recall, one of the issues with Star Trek Nemesis was that it tried to rehash the Khan dynamic for Picard so… I don’t know if this is necessarily the best idea to have gone forward with. Granted, having a director who actually thought, “if you make a normal action movie with Star Trek characters then it’s a Star Trek action movie and everyone will like it” as well as not even knowing character or actor names also took its toll but…

A villain and season inspired by Wrath of Khan… rather audacious; nice to see Kurtzman is taking the franchise credo seriously and going boldly. SAUCE FOR THE GOOSE.

Could the female villain come from a series other than TNG but still be in Picard S3?

I was wondering this too; Kai Winn?

Would make sense, if the attack at the end of S2 was the Pah Wraiths.

Would also tie back into that stone tablet.

Kira finally snapped?

I know a lot of people have been talking about Sela as a season 3 villain. Personally, I think they’ve done Romulans enough in Picard, and would be happy if they did something different. Others have mentioned the possibility of Brent Spiner playing the villain role. Aside from the fact that he just played a villain in season 2, if the upcoming season is truly going to be this cast’s swan song I’d much rather see Brent Spiner’s final bow be as one of the good guys…

What, MORE PC-poisened TNG characters …??
You kiddin’ me? lol
This’ll be WORSE than Season 2, and that’s saying something ….

You forgot to use italics and underlining.

You’re supposed to use “woke” now. Bad enough to sound like a reactionary, without sounding like a 1980s reactionary.

Yea, the dude could at least try to come across as a competent reactionary. lol

WE. Will. Not be replaced!!!

Ya know what this show needs??
Cowbells, wait, what??
Hell, no, more STRAIGHT WHITE MEN!!

The villain is female and Khan-like. This implies a previously seen character with a connection to Picard (but doesn’t have to be). If it were a known character, the options are limited:

Borg Queen (done already; but that may not stop them)
Sela (that would be surprising)
Tasha Yar (who miraculously survived, forged a truce with ARMUS and the two have merged into a tar lady bent on revenge)
Vash (can’t see it)
Anij (Picard never used his shore leave)

SHOCK PICKS: Beverly or Laris. Beverly makes absolutely no sense unless she’s being controlled by something.

My pick would be LARIS. Laris not being her real name, hence Orla Brady only plays “LARIS” for a couple of episodes. She’s a Romulan double agent sent by the Tal’shiar to infiltrate Picard’s inner circle and exact revenge by taking everything the man has left.

It will be interesting to see which way they go with this. Looking forward to it.

Interesting guesses, but I think Terry Matalas tweeted that the villain is a new character (no connection to earlier Trek shows and movies).

Ah, that takes care of my own Sela theory…

A Khan level villain. Lets see…. apparently failed at being a genocidal maniac in the 90’s. Attempted to hijack a 23rd century starship, failed. Vowed to rule his exile world, failed. Couldn’t keep his personal issues from fouling up his final escape attempt, killing all his people. Failed. Yeah, this new Khan level villian might have her hands full with a wheezy old robo admiral….

Caused Spock’s death…check

Killed Scotty’s Nephew…check

Caused a Starfleet Captain’s death…check

Killed the support crew of an entire research facility…check

Tore apart the Enterprise so bad is was to be sent to a scrap heap…check

Responsible for the complete destruction of the Federation starship Reliant…check

Spocks death – just a temporary setback
Scottys nephew – Redshirt. Cheaper by the dozen
Captain’s death – actually, the eel
Support crew – okay, I’ll give you that one
Enterprise – Captain, raise shields? Kirk – nah….
Reliant – Okay, that one, too
Hardly the stuff of universe altering villany. The Doomsday Machine and the Whale Probe did more damage. Just sayin….

Robert Meyer Burnett (a vocal critic of modern Star Trek) has seen an early cut of all 10 episodes season 3, and he loved it. I trust his judgement with Trek, so I think we can expect great things.

IMHO, live-action Trek from TOS thru TNG thru Nimoy in the first Kelvin movie (and even DIS and SNW somewhat) is the meta-story of Spock… how he changes, who he becomes… exploring the human condition through his eyes.

What if Sela survived the destruction of Romulus, can’t abide Spock’s disappearance, and is on a quest that collides with Picard—the man who messed up her last plots and dealings with Spock and also botched the evacuation of her homeworld? This would sort of end the Spock story, plus tie into both PIC season 1 and TNG… and all the Tasha threads and loyalties, regrets, fears, etc. of the TNG cast.

(Haven’t read all the posts here, so maybe I’m re- stating.)


If Picard i mean Sir Patrick, want to have some screen-time after Season 3. Then i would suggest an Mentor role for him. Less Stress on the Set and he do not need to appear in every Episode of the future Show.

Yes. Because the Star Trek Properties, that desperately tried to be Wrath of Khan were the best ones. There’s a reason, Nemesis is alomost every fans favourite movie, after TWOK of course, and Into Darkness ist considered the best of the Kelvin Movies by every fan. That’s how it is, right?

And the Best thing about the Kelvin movies was, that they all were about a Villain who wants revenge, right? Thats what Star Trek is about People hating other people and trying to kill them in the most brutal way possible. Thank got we’re on streaming now, so we can actually show all the gore.

I feel like channelling WoK is one of those oft-cited goals for Trek films that hasn’t served the franchise particularly well. An exception maybe was the first Gorn episode for SNW- there was some nice cat-and-mouse stuff in there. But Nemesis was clearly going for a WoK vibe, and Into Darkness… these were not Trek’s finest moments.

I remain hopeful, but I really hope they don’t start talking about Heart of Darkness again.

Basically every movie since Nemesis had that premise.
Shizon, Nero, Khan 2.0, Krull.
Even First Contact a bit with the reversed roles by Picard having his vendetta against the Borg.

Yeah, I was going to say, it goes back further. Hell, they even namechecked Ahab.

I didn’t want to speak it out that loud, but you are right.

The only tension I could expect from these codgers is whether they can make it to the head without having an accident on the way.

If the new villain is a female, and in the style of Khan… quite possible the daughter of an old enemy from TNG out for vengeance— due to whatever happened to her father, perhaps?
Any ideas, Trek fans? As Picard once said, “The sky’s the limit.”

or what happened to her mother or grandmother… Sela? The daughter of Sela?

Kurtzman said that it didn’t make sense to do this at the start, but after two seasons of Picard, the show had “earned the return of the crew,” 

Uh-huh. That translates to “no one liked what we did except when we brought back legacy characters so because we suck at creating new things we are going to bring the original people back for the end, even though we said that is not what we want the show to be in the beginning.”


I bet the villain is Ro Laren, which will be written like a deranged Admiral Cain.

This idea bums me out.

Having just finished my rerun of new BSG (in just 7 days) this idea sounds great.
The closest thing to Admiral Cain was the captain of the Equinox in VOY. And of course most klingon captains.

It needs to be the Enterprise E. That ship could EASILY still be in service in the 25th century. These ships have very long lifespans. But people seem to want “new” all the time which damages these ships as “characters”.
But if they want to pass on the baton to a 1701-F, ok, but let us see the E strut her stuff one more time and then go into the Fleet Museum.

A tweet from Matlas strongly implies it’s the F.

Maybe I’m a simple person, but the E is the best Enterprise since the original, so I’d like to see some form of that at some point.

Another villain, and – let me guess – another galaxy threatening event? :(

They could at least finally have a planet or galaxy threatening event without a real villain… V’Ger, the planet-killer and the whale probe are still out there.
edit…oops… I had the Kelvin movies in my mind which are discussed above.

OOOOOOOOOOOO MYYYYYYYYYYYYY LOOOOOOOOOOOORD in heaven!?!? The Enterprise DDDDDDD will RETURN???!!!! This is the wish I had since a teenager when I saw the crash in “Generations” because this ship is my second home really! I indeed tried to “cheat myself” talking positively like yea “they could save the saucer and the Enterprise D will return someday”. But over the years this positive talking got less and less and ended at some point – JUST TO LEARN NOW THAT MY WISH WILL COME TRUUUUUUUUUE! Sorry for my craziness but you have no clue how much that means to me