Star Trek: Strange New Worlds wrapped up its freshman season last month to high praise here at TrekMovie, along with a lot of positive buzz from critics and fans. So it should be no surprise to hear that the show is also a big hit for Paramount+.
Strange New Hit
Today Paramount+ sent out an announcement revealing that Star Trek: Strange New Worlds had the strongest debut ever for a Star Trek series, setting a new record as the most-watched original series in the franchise over its first 90 days. The series is also off to a strong start internationally, ranking as one the top two most-watched original series on Paramount+ in the U.K.
Paramount executives showed their enthusiasm for the show in an official statement released today, starting off with the chief of programming for Paramount+ Tanya Giles:
‘Star Trek’ fans all over the world embraced this incredible new ‘Star Trek’ journey. We are thrilled that the ‘Star Trek’ universe continues to be one of the most-watched franchises on the service.
Last week the company announced Paramount+ had grown to 43 million subscribers globally, with the most sign-up for any US subscription service during the second quarter of 2022. In a call with investors last week, Paramount Global CEO Bob Bakish cited Trek among the drivers for Paramount+, saying:
The power and strength of our franchises, existing and new, was on full display this quarter, thanks to strong performances from Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, 1883 of the Yellowstone Universe and our latest South Park special, South Park: the Streaming Wars as well as Halo, which has become a top driver globally for subscriber acquisition and engagement.
Franchise “Just getting started”
In today’s release, president and CEO of CBS George Cheeks offered more praise, along with a hint of more to come for the franchise, saying:
Over the past six years, Alex Kurtzman and his amazing team have brilliantly created and carefully curated a new ‘Star Trek’ universe for Paramount+ with five complementary series – each different in tone, style, story and in some cases target audience. Each series is a success in its own right, and now the franchise’s newest edition, Strange New Worlds, is earning critical acclaim and delivering notable performance achievements on the service, both domestically and internationally. We look forward to the franchise’s continuing journey on Paramount+ here in the U.S. and globally, where in the case of Strange New Worlds, we’re just getting started.”
The second season of Strange New Worlds has already been filmed and is expected to debut in 2023. There is no official word on a pickup for a third season, but with this news, the future of the show seems almost certain. And executive producers for the series have previously indicated some planning on season three has already started.
Strange New Worlds is now available to stream exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., U.K., Latin America, Australia, South Korea and the Nordics and airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave in Canada. Paramount+ has previously announced the service will launch in Italy in September, followed by launches in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and France in December.
The most watched show on P+ is locally significant I suppose. But being the best on your block is not quite the same as being the best in the state.
Just imagine how many viewers it could have had if the show had actually been better than below average!
And what show pray tell is “above average” in your book right now? More dark, bleak, overly-serialized grimcrap? SNW is the best Trek in 30 years, and it stands apart from the other garbage that calls itself Trek. It’s likely it’d be even more popular if it was the *only* Trek out there right now, given the damage the other series have done to the franchise.
It is a shame we had to wade through however-many seasons of DSC and two seasons of PIC (which was only marginally better, imo) to get to SNW. Hopefully season 2 of SNW will build on the foundation built in season 1, and hopefully PIC season 3 will end that otherwise-tepid series on a high note. As for DSC, I dropped that years ago, with no regrets.
SNW is for sure the best NuTrek but that doesn’t mean I cannot enjoy DSC. I like that show a lot. DSC is way superior to PIC, which is the only show to date I do not fully appreciate but that is subject to change with S3. As much as I love SNW, I wouldn’t want to ditch DSC. I just like it way too much…
…that’s one good thing about the number of options they’re giving us. (Hopefully) there’s something for everyone, Garth. Glad you’re enjoying DSC.
That’s what I was kinda hoping for. That the multiple options would mean there was a greater chance they would make a mistake and produce something good. Prodigy is as close as they got. It’s not great but it is above average. SNW just had so much potential. It’s so disappointing that they couldn’t resist ignoring TOS. The big reason they don’t get a pass is because every single mistake they made could have been avoided so very easily. Regardless… Looks like I have to wait for whatever the next show is to see if Secret Hideout can make a mistake and make something decent.
Well dude at least you like Prodigy…for now! ;D
Above average would be better scripts. Better characters. More than just one above episode out of 10. I just find it odd that nearly every other streaming show out there has been better than what we have gotten from Secret Hideout. Even the Marvel and Star Wars shows on Disney have been better than everything Secret Hideout has made. I like Prodigy but their Clone Wars revival was still much better.
Is it possible I am expecting better of Star Trek because I prefer Trek to those other franchises? Perhaps. But there it is.
In your opinion it is below average. I disagree so would others.
the Orville is below average in my opinion, others will disagree, point is don’t act like you know what a good show is and render judgment!
No one around here takes ML31 seriously. Move along.
You forgot to add, “in my opinion.”
It is a consensus opinion. Your constant trolling is tiresome.
For many it seems the definition of “trolling” has been changed to “anyone who writes something I don’t like”.
And is it a consensus, though?
I agree with you and will defend you here in regards to that I don’t consider your comments on this as trolling. Nevertheless, you’ve been peddling this stuff on this topic for quite awhile, and it would be refreshing to just hear you say: “hey I was wrong on this.” Instead you are doubling down, which frankly looks rather foolish, and is understandably causing some people here to incorrectly think you are trolling.
What have I been wrong about? What is the difference between speaking out at appropriate times in certain threads my opinion and thoughts and other people repeating their opinion and thoughts over and over and over again? I didn’t think opinions were wrong or right. Are they now? Definitions of things seem to be changing all the time these days….
You seem hung up on semantics. OK, your opinion, based on the new data, has been shown to be erroneous.
a misconception resulting from incorrect information
How am I hung up on semantics? And still waiting to see how that applies to me and no one else.
The first question is: what does below “average” even mean if there is no definition of average in the first place.
If “average” refers to all TV regardless of its subgenre or format, then EVERY space-based show including Killjoys is WAY above and beyond average for me because of its genre alone.
If “average” only refers to all space-based programming then some NuTrek may be slightly below average for some people because B5, NuBSG and EXP are really hard to compete with.
Unless there is a clean-cut definition of “average”, this is just an empty phrase :-)
The eye of the beholder…
I’m not. We all know that everything said here is opinion. No need to be the grammar police and say that. Anything said here that is subjective is known to be opinion and there is absolutely no need to add that contrition to it. We know cars use wheels. We don’t need to say, ‘my car, that uses wheels, needs work.’
If you respond with, “No, it’s actually way above average” you would have every right to do so. Without the caveat of saying ‘in my opinion’. The reader knows.
Dude, you ongoing narrative that this is a small potatoes wannabe minor network has just been shot to hell. Time for some new material, my friend. LOL
Please explain how A: What you say is my narrative is indeed my narrative. And B: How even if it was, how has it been “shot to hell”?
If it’s not your narrative,What does it matter If it’s been “Shot To Hell”?
It matters to me because I’d still like to understand the line of thinking. On the surface such a conclusion makes no sense. Maybe there was something I didn’t consider.
Regardless of his dislike of my semantics, he’s been suggesting for years here that this is a small potatoes network without a lot of subscribers, He even said on another post in this thread that it’s lightyears behind Netlix, yet it’s at 20% of Netflix subscribers right now and growing while Netflix’s growth has plateaued…so it’s hardly lightyears behind. Lol
Since when is 20% of something else NOT very far behind? If a ball club was losing 20-4… Is that not very very far back? I noticed that you failed to answer either of my questions and sticking to your odd idea of what is “light years” behind something.
“Light years” most definitely implies a huge difference — like orders of magnitude in difference.
It is what it is.
You seem to be hung up on semantics. Being 80% behind is indeed fall into the category of “orders of magnitude”. Based on that information it would seem that your opinion has been shown to be erroneous.
LOL, try learning what terms mean before you use them.
You have no idea how comical and hypocritical it is for you to say that after all you have said in this thread.
Trek fans just seem to have this compulsion to consistently take a s**t on good news.
And some Trek fan will think anything is good just because it has Star Trek in the title.
Would you not agree that this is an order of magnitude than the TNG and VOY snoozefests? This is good trek on par with VI and DS9 in my humble opinion.
Hmm… No. I would not agree. Voyager was actually much better than SNW. On many levels. SNW doesn’t even come close to DS9 or VI for that matter. I also would have a difficult time comparing the show to a feature film. From my POV SNW has made a number of grave errors. That said, it is still the best live action show they have made. But that doesn’t make it good.
Oh, please. Voyager had so many terrible episodes and frustrating entire seasons. It cannot even be compared to SNW in either direction b/c SNW hasn’t produced half as many episodes yet. I’d def watch SNW over Voyager any day of the week, though.
And that’s why we call them opinions. Love Voyager, always have and always will. Now I love SNW too so I’m not suggesting I think SNW is subpar to VOY but it’s only ten episodes thus far compared to 7 years of watching that crew make its way through the Delta Quadrant. And I did an entire rewatch of the entire series a year ago. First time since it ended and love it more today. There are definitely awful episodes but for me, usually the good outweighs that bad on most Trek shows. But I get it’s not everyone’s favorite cup of black coffee. But as I always say as fans we’re not a monolith. There are people (not many here lol) that thinks shows like PIC and DIS are better than SNW too and that’s completely valid as well.
But sure in time I can see myself liking SNW more but it’s going to be several seasons for that to happen, if it ever does.
Yes these constant attacks on TNG and VOY are grotesque. I’m not even a fan of DS9, as I hate the religious propaganda and annoying Ferengi, but I acknowledge its super popular.
It’s certainly OK for people to feel however they want about any particular show or movie, but it’s the ‘fans’ who mock or put down others for liking a particular show or think their opinion of the show is a consensus, it shouldn’t be considered canon, etc, etc where I wish we could block them and move on. It’s gate keeping and shouldn’t be allowed but I see it done a lot; especially with certain members here.
And I hear you about DS9. For the record it’s my favorite show out of the entire franchise by far, but I’m also an atheist, so figure that out lol. But I never had an issue with how DS9 portrayed religion and it was nice to just have a Star Trek show to deal with it more prominently. All us atheists don’t hate religion (ok maybe some ;)), but it’s usually the propaganda that comes with it that bugs a lot of us (or when it tries to control government as a certain controversial over turn of an amendment in America has done recently), not religion as a whole. But I thought DS9 handled it pretty well and balanced IMO. I know the Sisko/emissary thing has always bothered others though and understand why they don’t like the show over it.
That is understood. I couldn’t stand TVH but I am forced to acknowledge it is quite popular among many fans and non fans. Not much I can do about that.
Funny how you use “I hate” regarding some aspects of DS9, but yet apparently I can’t be critical of Voyager anymore or I’m being grotesque? And by your logic I can be as critical as I wanna be on voyager so long as I can include in every post me saying, “PS: I acknowledge that it’s a popular show.” Lol, that’s just twisted.
Every show has their share of dog episodes. But overall Voyager still delivered better than SNW. Even TOS had bad episodes. That didn’t drag the entire show down. But SNW’s problem is less mediocre episodes and more production related. There seems to have been a lot more thought and care that went into Voyager that just doesn’t seem to be in SNW.
The article mentions that Paramount + had the strongest increase in subscriptions of all services in the second quarter. That’s a case of best in class, not “best on your block.” We all know you don’t like the show, which is entirely fair (however churlish it might seem to constantly fault the producers for not personally consulting you on vetting their creative choices). But there’s a big difference between fair criticism and outright trolling.
That is what it said. And that’s not unexpected of a new service. But they are far from being among the “big boys” of the industry. Unless their goal is not to be one of them, just to be profitable is good enough. How is it churlish to make legitimate criticisms? Using that term seems like there is a negative emotional undertone there. Might want to back off that next time you respond. Also I object to the connection to “trolling”. The way you used it strongly suggests you don’t know what actual “trolling” is. There is still a user here who acts that way but I just ignore that user whenever I see the name.
No, that measure of success was not necessarily ‘expected’ of Paramount +, which in any case is not so much a new service as it is a continuation and rebranding of an existing one. (Let alone the obvious fact that those increased subscriptions are primarily due to the perceived critical and word-of-mouth response to SNW.) And what’s churlish is not your criticisms of the show per se but the constant complaint that the producers are ignoring said criticisms, as if they would be expected to substitute your aesthetic preferences for their own. Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way, even in the cases (e.g. the Gorn) where I happen to agree with you.
No one was more critical of J.J. Abrams’ Trek 2009 film on these forums than I was, but even I wouldn’t have tried to spin its undeniable critical and financial success as anything other than what they were, in spite of my own disappointment. Because that would have been trolling.
But I never complained that producers weren’t listening to MY criticisms. I was merely spouting my takes on a Star Trek message board. Nor would I expect them to. They have their own agenda and obviously don’t care what fans think so long as certain business thresholds are met. Which is OK I just wish they cared for the franchise more while trying to meet said thresholds. I do believe both could be achieved.
For context though, Disney just announced yesterday that Disney+ increased subscriptions by 15 million, dwarfing Paramount+’s growth. They are about to lose Indian subscribers who just tuned in for the cricket, but Disney has so much scale and is well on its way to being deemed an essential service in millions of households. Gotta keep the kiddos happy.
At least Paramount has Nickelodeon to help them compete there a bit.
SNW is the best Star Trek since DS9, so “below average” is an absurd description.
I would say Voyager and Enterprise were both much much better. I stand by my description.
I really liked SNW but I still prefer Voyager and Enterprise too.
I gotta say I like SNW better than VOY or ENT. But it’s really not a fair comparison yet since there are only 10 eps. I will say this though. I don’t think ANY Trek so has had such a strong first season since TOS
Definitely agree about TOS. It’s the strongest first season of any of the shows by far. A bit of a down turn in third season though lol.
And I agree, it’s not fair to compare the shows directly which is why it’s weird for me to say if I like one show that’s had just 10 episodes versus another that’s had over 150. I can’t say that truthfully because it’s just a handful of episodes to access. I mean I love Lower Decks so far too but can I truly say I think it’s better than TOS or TNG with just 20 episodes so far? Probably not! I can say I like the show but to say I prefer it more than others that I been watching for years and with tons more episodes to boot is difficult, at least for me; and especially since love those other shows. After a few more seasons then it will be easier to make a real assessment.
That total number of episodes per season is why I would tend to be reluctant to directly compare seasons as well. It really does make a difference. As well as the circumstances that come with streaming vs the much harder deadlines and rigors of being on an old style network schedule.
I respect your different opinion on that, but I think both those shows missed the both since half the characters on each one were incredibly dull.
Please for the love of god stop talking
Warp speed!! Got to love it!!!
Exploration, adventure, danger on the final fronter – a crew putting themselves and their machines to the ultimate test. It’s wagon train to stars!
My hope is that this is a signal to them that audiences want more episodic shows, more upbeat and adventurous shows. SNW is the best Trek ever made. Keep it going!
Agree completely! SNW is nearly perfect; whatever you did to make it, keep doing THAT. :-)
I agree – I hope that lots of other shows (not just Trek) go back to episodic format. Having every single show run long story arcs is getting exhausting!
I do actually wonder if its success could lead to a pendulum swing back to prestige TV doing episodic storytelling again. Should be interesting to see if there is a “response” to its success over the next few years.
I really don’t think it is the episodic story telling as much as having an exciting environment with exciting stories. Take the TOS Federation and the Pike Enterprise and give them an arc, and I bet it would be awesome (the real one, where there isn’t 1000 starships flying around and a magic mushroom drive with unlimited energy).
I think it’s why Lower Decks is a success as well (for those who like it). It’s really the first modern Trek show that is also episodic but odd how no one counts it like SNW for some reason. I don’t think Trek can’t be good with a serialized approach since I really liked how well Enterprise and definitely DS9 did it. I just think the people making these new shows haven’t cracked it yet. And its funny because DS9 and ENT started off as episodic and made the switch later where as DIS and PIC started off that way but just been subpar in these formats (but I will say I think Discovery has done better with it than Picard, but that’s not high praise either ;)).
I generally like most serialized shows but I agree there is nothing wrong to having more episodic shows these days either. It doesn’t have to be one or the other but it’s clear which format has become the prominent one in the last decade.
I really like a mix of episodic and arc storytelling–I highly doubt SNW will never have a two parter or an arc that’s more than personal plotlines. But I do like the idea of more of a balance overall in tv, rather than constant super dense must-binge-to-understand.
(I think Sandman really hits this: episodes connect really strongly but they also can have totally different feels and genres from one to the next.)
I think each show needs to figure out what works best, and networks and studios should be open to either path.
Strange New Worlds is hands down the best Star Trek series since the Rick Berman era of the 90s. I always wanted a Pike-base series ever since the Marvel/Paramount Star Trek Early Voyages comics first came out in 1997, when DS9 and Voyager were both on TV and the TNG movies doing well with First Contact haven been released the year prior. SNW fits the spirit of old school Trek. It’s my favorite since Voyager and Enterprise Season 4.
It’s my favorite show since Voyager as well! And it’s made me appreciate TOS more at the same time.
I felt the same way about having a Captain Pike series about the early years of the Enterprise under his command.
Well since SNW is the best Secret Hideout show by far (imo), this isn’t a surprise whatsoever. The first season was good. I still wish they’d lay off the remaining legacy characters and focus on Pike and his crew, but that ship has sailed.
I’m hoping for great things out of PIC S3, but that show has fooled me twice so far. Here’s to hoping.
Consider the entire premise is a legacy concept, I think it’s misguided to want just specific legacy characters.
So far they’ve handled the use of legacy characters really well, much better than DSC. Even Kirk, I don’t care what anyone says, I like the guy who played him. Much better than Shatner, who I honestly never really liked. Classic trek was always all about Nimoy for me.
I don’t think it’s really fair to judge the new Kirk just yet anyways. The Kirk we got in the finale wasn’t supposed to be Shatner’s Kirk in any way shape or form. It was an alternate timeline where he never met Spock or Bones. And Spock/Bones are who make Kirk who he is.
Great start. Can’t wait for S2.
Not surprising obviously. It’s the most ‘Trek-y’ show that feels and acts like classic Star Trek again. After the very mixed reception for both Discovery and Picard it’s nice to have a live action show that has positive and fun stories that’s focused on exploration, science and adventure again. This is the type of show people like me have missed since Enterprise ended.
While I do love the animated shows and still hoping to like both Picard and Discovery more, SNW is definitely Paramount+ flagship Star Trek show right now. It just got all the ingredients right from the start IMO.
43 freaking million subscribers!
There have been a few fans on this site who have been long claiming that this is a little watched streaming service. Now we have quantitative proof that those remarks from them have been BS.
43 freaking million subscribers!
More than the absolute number, Paramount+ is accelerating its subscription growth at a time when Netflix and HBO Max are bleeding subscribers.
I’ve seen recent articles on how WBDiscovery needs to look to Disney and Paramount as models for restructuring and management of franchise branding.
Who would have thought it a few years ago?
P+ is just a much better service today and waaaaay better than when it started out as All Access. I have never canceled it to this day but AA was just bad and basically felt like an extension of CBS with little diversity of shows and movie library that was a complete joke. P+ is still not perfect but it at least feels like a real competitor to the other guys now. I really like it even without Star Trek (but probably wouldn’t keep it all year without Star Trek either).
I think ultimately what we will see is a worldwide brand that combines CBS and Showtime into P+ — and perhaps a partner of Apple.
Selfishly all I care about is that SNW gets to do it’s thing…!
I’m thinking the only things other than Trek I have seen on P+ was that horrid TZ revival, The Stand and a South Park special. Other than that I haven’t found anything. I canceled it when SNW ended. Don’t know when I will re-up. Possibly when Prodigy returns as I’m guessing that’s the next show to appear after LDX. Which I just can’t re-up for. Will watch it when I do but I’m not paying for it. It’s weird… I find Star Trek Discovery much much worse yet I am willing to subscribe to catch those episodes over LDX. Also the Star Wars shows have been much better but I only get the D+ for no more than two months then I can it. I was about to can it but then Orville showed up so I’ll watch some more D+ stuff along with it. They have a pretty neat doc on ILM there. Unlike P+ I have found other things to check out on D+ that is getting me to keep the service a little longer than planned.
Boy that first episode of The Orville totally feels like it could easily be season 8 of TNG. Or even TNG: The Next Generation.
I definitely watch more stuff on P+ today versus AA a few years ago. Mostly just movies. But they have a great movie library now. I just rewatched the Mission Impossible movies a week ago. Oddly I haven’t watched ANY of the new shows but there are a few on my list. Just haven’t gotten around to them yet.
And I don’t think it’s a big surprise why you are more invested in Discovery than LDS even if you dislike it more because it’s in its fifth season soon and we seen that crew go through a lot at this point. And of course the stakes are always sooooo much higher lol. I think most fans want to know if the galaxy will still be around next season or not. ;D
In a lot LDS episodes, the stakes almost feels nonexistent at times which is the way I prefer it. But that’s probably the best idea, just wait until the seasons are over and watch them then since you don’t seem to like most of the shows other than Prodigy. And you saved a ton of money too.
I only watched the first episode of Orville season 3 as well but yeah really liked it. I just kept pushing it off when the next episode showed up to the point I missed the entire season lol. But now that it’s on Disney+, I’m going to binge the whole season. People been raving about it here and other places so it sounds like it’s the best one easily. I think McFarlane was finally able to go full TNG on Hulu and it paid off.
“WBDiscovery needs to look to Disney and Paramount as models for restructuring and management of franchise branding.”
Well, WBDSC is so bad with the DC franchise, they have to look up to anyone… DC is the worst dumpsterfire in Hollywood and after what they’ve done to Batgirl, the deserve to crash and burn… But let’s not get started on that one :-)
DC Film’s biggest issue is that the only comics they have ever read either come from Frank Miller or the Death of Superman. They take inspiration from nothing else. And they keep trying to turn Superman into a superpowered batman. Marvel understands it’s characters. DC def doesn’t.
1) Subscriber growth is slowing down, not accelerating:
2021 Q4 7.5m new subscribers (because of 1883)
2022 Q1 6.3m new subscribers (because of 1883, Halo)
2022 Q2 4.9m new subscribers (because of 1883, Halo)
2) I want to see the article that says, that WB/Discovery has to look at Star Trek as a model for franchise branding.
I read articles that praise Paramount Global’s hybrid approach to streaming with advertisement-supported streaming on Pluto TV.
Lets be fair though. Star Trek had a shared universe long before the MCU was a thing
Add to that the fact that P+ only has a handful of originals that are drawing in viewers. There’s SNW, 1887, Halo, thats about it. But then again when Top Gun comes to Paramount the number of Subs is going to skyrocket IMHO
Netflix has indeed been losing subscribers. But last year they were at 219 million. Even losing the number reported they are still lightyears ahead of P+. Time will tell. P+ might hit the same wall Netflix did. And possibly much earlier than Netflix.
That is true. But Paramount+ has a monster catalog, while Netflix had to build a catalog from scratch. So the 200+ million Netflix subscribers come with much more investment than the 40+ million Paramount+ subscribers. So the return on investment may come much sooner for P+…
We shall see. I still think eventually many of these individual streamers will end up merging.
219 subs with probably a third of those subscribed just to watch Stranger Things and then forgot to cancel their subscription. Netflix is (and has been) a default for many people for so long, but I bet that viewership compared to subscriptions are lower than what P+ is currently doing. Especially with Stranger Things now done with it’s latest season. And they don’t have any franchises that keep people watching nearly year-round like P+. People just have it because they think they need it. But from recent drops, that might change.
I wouldn’t presume to conclude that people subscribed for one show. I’m sure there are some but seems unlikely Stranger Things was powerful enough to garner the bulk of their subscribers. But there are other reasons why the subscriptions are falling. And those reasons may end up affecting P+ and others as well.
I originally subscribed to Netflix here in Israel for Discovery (gone after 3 seasons), and then Prime Video for Picard.
As I said… I’m sure there are some.
P+ is now up to nearly 20% of Netflix. That’s not “light years, that’s “catching up” and approaching the same ballpark.”
Give it up dude, you were just wrong on this. No worries, we’ve all laid some eggs here from time to time.
20% is awfully far back. And I wouldn’t say “catching up. If a ball club is down 16-1 and the other team scores 2 runs in the 5th that’s hardly “catching up. Not really sure what it is I should “give up” on here. Give up on reading the numbers correctly?
Lol, dude, you are the one who said “lightyears” behind, not me. Light years behind implies an orders of magnitude difference. That’s just a false statement.
Say what you mean, mean what you say.
I did. And I stand by the analogy that having only 20% of a rival is “light years” behind. It is a 100% correct statement. I said what I meant and meant what I said. being 80% behind truly is orders of magnitude difference.
The first plural in Orders of Magnitude would be 1/100th of the subscription level of Netflix. And even a single Order of Magnitude difference doesn’t work — that would be 1/10 of the subscription level.
You keep digging a bigger hole for yourself, dude. This comes from your bad habit of way over-exaggerating here. You are just looking silly now.
You give me a good chuckle by remembering that Happy Days ep where Fonzie couldn’t sound out the words about him being wrong: “Ralph, I was wroooooongggh” LOL
You are the one that brought up “orders of magnitude”. Not me. I just used the term “light years”. A decently used term to describe a very very large distance. An 80% lead when talking about millions qualifies. You are the one who is making the mountain out of a mole hill and are looking very silly in keeping this going. All because you can’t let it go or admit that indeed it was you who was “wrooooooonnnnnn…”
LOL^2 Sure, whatever you say, dude. ;-)
I’m just following the vernacular.
It’s not a true comparison though. Netflix was literally the first. They were a streaming service before streaming services were a thing, back when their main business was mailing out DVDs. They have like a decade on P+
In another post I did acknowledge that Netflix had that advantage. Fair comparison or not, that is what the numbers show at the moment.
Don’t forget that Netflix started it’s streaming service way back in 2007. They have had time to build up a subscriber base.
That is very true. And is quite the advantage. Their brand is also nearly like Band-Aid for adhesive strips. So they do still have that going for them. Have no idea if that will continue long term or not.
It may be difficult for them to hold onto what they have now since Disney, Paramount, etc have their own streaming services and will eventually pull all available programming back. Netflix will have to step up their game and have to increase exclusive content like other services. If they do not, they will not be so far ahead of the pack anymore. Paramount and Disney have their first run shows as well as any CBS show for Paramount. Disney’s catalogue is immense. Know what I’m saying?
I don’t think you are wrong. But it does seem there are limits to what people are willing to accept. As said earlier Netflix has been losing subscribers and Disney’s speed in adding subscribers was 1.5 million and slowed to 100,000 in the last quarter. In both cases original programming may have had less an impact than other factors.
Netflix is churning out new original content constantly. The times when they relied entirely on the back catalogue of other studios are long gone. In fact, a quick google search for “Netflix Originals” returned a list with more than 3000 entries (that’s movies and TV shows, not individual episodes).
However, while Netflix has had a few hit shows, they haven’t managed to build up a strong franchise of interconnected shows and/or movies. Something like the Marvel Cinematic Universe or all of those Star Wars shows. A lot of their original content doesn’t seem to catch a lot of public attention.
You say that Paramount’s or Disney’s catalogue is immense but Netflix actually has a bigger catalogue than the others. Another website I found mentioned 6,000 TV shows and movies streaming on Netflix in the US, whereas Disney Plus only has about 2,000 shows and movies.
So Netflix’s problem isn’t that they don’t have enough content. Their problem is that they are losing a lot of big franchises and a lot of the new content they put out doesn’t really catch on.
Keep in mind, P+ is about to get Top Gun Maverick.
You think that will drive millions of subscriptions? I guess it could. We shall see. Side note, I haven’t seen that film myself because I was not a fan of the original.
Think about how many more subs they may end up with if Top Gun: Maverick is exclusive to P+. I’m thinking that could be a significant boost.
Let’s not get too excited about those numbers. Ive been following subscription numbers for quite a while. P+ has been in the 30 million range for about a year now. Rising up to 43 million now is far from being a major surge.
And no, we’re not in the same ballpark with Netflix (220 million), Amazon (175 million) and Disney+ (137 million) yet. We’re not even close to HBO Max’ 76 million and times are definitely getting harder economically.
Actually I was hoping for a greater boost from SNW but I guess most Trekkies have already been on board since DSC started.
I remain cautiously optimistic but this “war” is far from over. It’s all about survival…
P+ is still mostly US subscribers, while all others had already expanded worldwide. Give it time, and P+ will at least surpass HBO Max.
1)You do know that there are other shows on Paramount Plus than Star Trek right?
None of the Top 10 subscription drivers for Paramount Plus include a Star Trek show.
2) “Halo has become a top driver globally for subscriber acquisition and engagement”
-Robert M. Bakish, CEO, Paramount Global Q2 2022 earnings call transcript
3) Every quarter Paramount is releasing a list of top “acquisition and engagement drivers” for Paramount Plus.
1883, the Yellowstone prequel, is now for three times in a row in the top spot for “acquisition and engagement drivers”.
No Star Trek show ever did that.
4) In the last 12 months, Paramount Plus has released 5 high-budget “prestige television” shows:
Star Trek Discovery, Star Trek Picard, Star Trek Strange New Worlds, 1883, and Halo.
“[SNW] ranking as one the top two most-watched original series on Paramount+ in the U.K.”
Meaning, that a different show, probably Halo, is number one.
Wow this is interesting. This is actually a good thing for the service though. It was no way it could rely on Trek fans alone to build on the service long term. Trek is the shiny object wherever it goes but I still highly doubt it brings in tons of new people too and that’s what you need to get more people to subscribe to a service, people who are not driven by one brand, simply the overall package. We know the big IPs is what gets people to sign up but to STAY it has to really be more than that obviously.
That said Star Trek is obviously very important to the service. It may not be a main driver but I do think it would collapse without Trek there and why we have so much of it today. As someone who basically has P+ mostly for Star Trek, all I care about is they give us new shows (and probably in the future) movies.
Saw the first episode of Halo but never went beyond that. I plan to give to watch the rest of the season though but never played the game so it was always just a passing interest for me, but was definitely the right call for Paramount.
Both SNW and Picard make the top ten for P+
Yup, that is a positive surprise and far ahead of what CBS hoped for way back in mid 2019.
Time to just start remaking TOS and TNG episodes whole cloth. Absolutely no reason not to.
LOL! Nope… The majority of the compliments I’ve seen about SNW were mainly based around the return to the tone and feel of previous Trek, with most people praising the more original and new concepts and characters. Most of the pushback I’ve noticed seems to be against bringing in elements and characters that were well developed in previous Trek outings (such as Uhura and now Kirk). So just remaking what’s been made makes no sense and won’t fly. It’s part of the reason it’s taking forever to do another JJVerse movie. ST: Beyond wasn’t enough to make people want to come back to that universe. Recreating TNG won’t go any better, unless it’s just an extension of what’s already been created.
What better way to “return to the tone and feel of previous Trek” than by recycling the scripts and sprucing them up a bit for 21st century audiences? Just CTRL+F character names as needed and whammo-blammo every episode will be amazing.
I think Tiberius Mudd was being sarcastic. He’s been critical of the show using a lot of similar story lines and tropes that TOS and TNG became famous for. And I agree with him to a point but that’s also why the show is popular, it’s bringing in the nostalgia elements of those shows that DIS and PIC went out of their way to avoid.
I think when DIS showed up it was 12 years after Enterprise and a lot of people who were critical of the Berman shows said the stories were feeling too bland and kind of the same. And they aren’t wrong (although I never had an issue with it) but that’s how TV works in general, especially after hundreds of episodes. So when DIS showed up they wanted to really distinguish that show from the classic shows, which I fully understood and supported. But what they gave us just wasn’t that great on its own IMO. And the tone was waaaay too dark, especially DIscovery. But again they were trying make it different for a new era of television. But you also had millions of fans who were missing the optimistic view and anomaly/planet of the week episodic stuff.
So now people want those type of stories again and not the long soap operish galaxy in peril serial story format every season DIS and then PIC started doing. I don’t mean everyone just the people who missed those type of stories and SNW is really fulfilling that format again. I mean I can’t imagine an episode of DIS and PIC where characters inhabits someone else body like in Spock Amok. But that’s something you, we saw in TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 quite a bit.And yeah I missed those type of stories as well and why I’m loving SNW so much.
Now for people who truly love DIS and PIC and because it IS a different approach, that’s the beauty of the new shows today you have that option as a different approach but now have SNW which is basically getting back to basics like 90s Star Trek approach that many today grew up with. Best of both worlds!
But I am hoping in season 2, SNW can break out and not follow the other shows so much.
Perhaps but in a way they already are. We’ve already had an alt timeline Balance of Terror which was fantastic
No, just no. No direct remakes unless they serve a purpose. They should find their way around TOS and TNG giving us more eps from that era… There are 1-2 more years of Kirk’s first FYM, there is the entire second FYM and there is plenty of opportunity for a TNG follow-up after PIC ends. But taking away the originals is an absolute no-go. Every second of them counts!
Gratifying to finally have this news, it was damned odd not to see any press releases touting engagement while the show was airing. That’s a no-brainer to psych more people into getting on a bandwagon!
Now I’m curious as to where it stacks up against the rest of the P+ lineup, specifically Halo, Kingstown and 1883.
I’m glad they’re acknowledging this. Now Paramount+ should start to refer to SNW as their flagship Star Trek series rather than Discovery.
Discovery who? lol….glad to see SNW getting some love by Paramount execs.
if i could post the meme of a mom in the pool with two kids…the one she is loving is SNW, the one screaming is Picard and the one dead under the water is Discovery….and off screen is LD having a drink cause why else would you be poolside
It’s rather telling how everyone was dunking on the accuracy of the stats when Discovery was announced as the most streamed show on Paramount+, and now everyone is sticking to the stats when SNW is only the most streamed Star Trek show on Paramount+ (because Yellowstone or Halo or even Big Brother All Stars might actually had more audiences).
It’s not even #1 of the whole channel like Discovery, but somehow Discovery is dead under the water.
Wow would you look at that! Who could have known that Star Trek fans wanted to watch an actual Star Trek show?
It’s only #1 within Star Trek shows on P+, unlike Discovery, which was #1 on P+. Keep dreaming.
Discovery was the number one series when there were far fewer options available on the service and fewer subscribers. With a larger subscriber base and multiple Star Trek series in production, surpassing the viewership of Discovery and Picard is a significant accomplishment and would seem to indicate that it’s connected with an audience beyond Star Trek’s base, something that Discovery and Picard have been unable to do.
In a nutshell, more people are watching Strange New Worlds than Discovery or Picard.
No, nothing in the article here said that SNW is the #1 most watched. It said that SNW has the #1 DEBUT amongst ONLY Trek shows. So, yes, like you said, of course it had the strongest debut, because P+ has more subscribers than CBSAA. Of course there are more people watching the first episode of Strange New Worlds than the first episode of Disco.
However, the fact that they had to spin the stats like this is very telling.
First, it suggests that SNW isn’t the most watched show of Trek. If it is, it wouldn’t need to be embellished with the word “Debut”. That means it’s likely Disco or even Picard are more streamed than SNW.
Second, it suggests that SNW didn’t even have a strong debut like other shows that had also debuted on P+, like Halo or 1863 or Jersey Shore Reunion.
So, yeah, this stat is only here for fans like you to stay happy about the franchise and us to spend hours debating it to increase engagement.
just amazing how you find so much to whine and complain about.
That statement is meaningless. Discovery was Number 1 when Paramount+(then CBS All Access) had far less original content. SNW has now overtaken Discovery in total numbers, so historical place ranking is irrelevant.
Yeah I mean for years Discovery was really the only show they were marketing on the service because all their other shows were lower budget dramas and comedies. Now they have invested big in other shows as they have Star Trek and at a faster rate. Discovery was the lone ‘big’ show for the first few seasons, definitely the first two before Picard showed up. Now P+ has tons more content so naturally things will change.
But also it’s not a shock SNW will have more viewers because it’s the new shiny toy in the room. That was going to be the case even if it sucked, at least in its first season. I don’t doubt it will stay that way for awhile but it’s not a surprise obviously. All the live action Star Wars shows debut higher than the last one because you are gaining more subscribers in general and of course SW fans will naturally be curious in the next show. Same for Star Trek. But in reality all these shows are still really young to know how it will shake out long term.
just amazing how you find so much to whine and complain about.
LOL, huh? No negativity in that post. How can you read that and think I was whining? I guess tone is hard to read at times.
Happy that SNW, Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks and Prodigy are doing so well in viewer numbers and some people thought that the franchise was in trouble. Can’t wait to see what else is in store for the future of Trek.
The popularity of SNW should translate into another ship-based show of exploration as a PIC follow-up. I actually hope they have learned there lesson that tampering with the formula for the sake of it is not such a good idea. Section 31 and Academy are not the best path to move forward.
The next show should be about combining exploration and an ongoing arc in the background. There are many, many tidbits of galactic history in TNG that have only been touched upon once or twice. I’m talking about T’Kon, Iconians, Preservers, Conspiracy Parasites, Vorgons, Armus and his origins…you name it.
All of these ancient mysterious powers cry Indiana Jones vs SG-1 in the Trek universe! I want excavations, stunning remains of ancient civilisations, relics, relics, relics and a current threat, possibly linked to the return of one or two of those powers.
Maybe Molly O’Brien can Lara Croft her way through this adventure set aboard a small Excavation class vessel called USS Bonaventure :-)
Agreed about Section 31 and the Academy. DSC did more than enough damage to S31. And the Academy, which I am willing to be would take place in the 32nd century, just doesn’t sound like fun at all.
SNW is very good, and im really enjoying it (i’m up to ep 5 here in the uk) BUT I really, really enjoyed s4 of Discovery too, which i think has finally hit its groove. I just wish s4 was s2! lol
Either way, this is good news and with Picard over next year, I would be very happy with a carousel of SNW, LD, DISCO and either an Enterprise F seven spin off or an Enterprise K( ?) Spin off set in Disco which focuses on them surving the burn and rebuilding the Federation in Another sector of space.
We know a Picard spin off is a given at this point and yeah I think most fans will want another Enterprise based show in the 25th century, ie, a TNG sequel. I don’t know if that will happen though because they probably don’t want two Enterprise shows running together but who knows? But if nothing else I just want it more episodic like SNW and LDS and a big reason why those shows are more popular IMO. It just works better. They can have a seasonal arc as both LDS and SNW has but I hope its not tied like a movie as PIC and DIS feels like.
And I also want another show set in the 32nd century as well when Discovery is done. I’m still very mixed on that show but putting it in that era was still the best idea not just for the show but the franchise in general and want to see it continue.
yikes. TBH I don’t want another 32nd century show. I just hate what DSC did to the 32nd century. Almost the whole federation blew up. Their tech looks less advanced than it was in DSC’s 23rd century. They are still stuck in WARP. They are still stuck in the Milky Way. Its like even before the burn the Federation was hibernating for 700 years.
I understand but that’s the beauty of TV, the next season we can see all kinds of crazy tech we haven’t seen the first two seasons. Remember we have still seen very very little of the 32nd century so far. We haven’t even been on a 32nd century starship yet, it’s all been mostly focused around Discovery herself. I think the warp thing is nuts too since we saw more advanced drives in the 24th century but again whose to say those don’t exist in the 32nd century? They were just never as prominent as warp still seems to be, at least in the Federation.
I’m not really disagreeing with you, I think both the tech and the basic society in the 32nd century should be a little more advanced and imaginative than it is. It would’ve been cool to see at least some cybernetic human beings or a society of holograms, etc. And it still can be. That’s why I want them to continue to develop it. There is so much potential for that era that they can do. But sadly they are squandering it so far. But fingers crossed next season can go a bit farther now that we are a few years away from the Burn.
I’m not a fan of the 32nd century setting at all either. For mostly the same reasons. I feel they went way to far in the future and the tech just doesn’t seem correct for that far forward. Still using dilithium is just something I cannot buy especially when in Discovery’s original setting they came up with the spore drive and in the TNG time there were people working on other ways to get around. And that in 900 years NO ONE came up with a new version of the spore drive. At any rate, I get that they felt the need to go forward I just think they should have only gone perhaps no more than 300 years forward. If the reason they went past that was because there were already canon events revealed about other centuries in Trek my response is… Why let that stop you when it hasn’t stopped you from doing what you wanted to do before?
Yeah not having a new version of the spore drive 900 years later is absurd. I been pointing that out since third season. But I understand in terms of drama they probably wanted to keep Discovery the lone ship with a spore drive but on its face its silly, especially since the Burn would’ve forced them to at least consider spore drives once it happened.
But as I said we seen little of the 32nd century so far and at least they are now making them.
Each series is appealing in it’s way….but I admit to favoring Strange New Worlds.
Love the show but this pretty much means nothing. Lower decks, Picard, and disco premiered under cbs all access not paramount plus so when they say this is the best Star Trek paramount plus debut does it include those? Even if it does disco came out when the service was new and lower decks is animated so doesn’t mean all that much.
I still think discovery seems to be performing better than strange new worlds so far. According to flixpatrol (I don’t know how accurate it is but it looks at the daily top 10 lists for each service) disco has been the third most popular show on paramount for 2022 and Picard was 9th. Strange new worlds doesn’t make the top 10 list. This is based on daily ranking over time and not the number of viewers. This sounds about right as discovery was the most watched original show last year.
Flixpatrol uses a metric that presents a snapshot, not an overall measurement of a shows performance over the entirety of a season or total viewership numbers. The statement from Paramount pretty much says it all.
Rich I also got that impression (best ST debut on P+ = only ST debut on P+)
Also, most people are sharing their passcodes. So a show like SNW will be getting a lot of love by friends of passcode owners.
The question is whether they are simply counting views (including repeat views and password sharing) or whether they are counting the number of unique accounts that have viewed it (no matter how many times).
Anyways, password sharing is probably not unique to Star Trek fans, so this would be applicable to the numbers of any other show as well.
No surprise as this is the first STAR TREK from Gene Roddenberry since 1987!
Now I’m not one of you “Discovery” haters – it’s just not my cup of Tea, But this proves Roddenberry had the right ideas in 1964!
Why don’t they say what show was the previous record holder?
Because it was Star Trek Prodigy.
Strange New Worlds is the second Star Trek debut on Paramount Plus.
Of course, Strange New Worlds has a bigger debut than Prodigy. Big surprise.
“one of the top two”
It’s not number one. They want to avoid saying “second place”. Pure PR speak and spin.
Halo is the number one “Paramount+ original” show in the UK.
Keep in mind, in the last 3 months Paramount Plus has released only 2 high-budget “prestige television” shows that count as “Paramount+ original”: Halo and Strange New Worlds.
They don’t have to mention the previous record holder since it’s now the record holder. Those numbers also go back to the debut of Discovery. Any way you cut it, it’s outperforming the All Access and Paramount+ series that preceded it.
As for one of the top 2 series, again, those numbers reflect the performance of all series which have streamed on All Access and Paramount+.
It’s not really a surprise that Strange New Worlds had the strongest debut of any Star Trek show on Paramount+/CBS All Access. It’s not a sign of quality or that SNW is what fans want vs. the other shows not being what fans want.
Discovery debuted in 2017 when CBS All Access had around 2 million subscribers in total. Star Trek Picard debuted in 2020 when the service probably had around 5 to 6 million subscribers.
SNW debuted in 2022 on a service with about 40 million subscribers.
So it’s only natural that SNW would have more viewers than any of the previous streaming shows when they first debuted. There’s just a much larger pool of subscribers.
Now the interesting question is how viewership of the upcoming seasons of the other Trek shows will compare to Strange New Worlds (and season 2 of SNW).
For those that like the current crop of shows it’s good to know that the brass at Paramount+ seems to be happy with how the Trek franchise is performing. But as per the quote in the article above, it’s only “one of the most-watched franchises on the service”. So Trek is no longer the only, probably not even the major driving force getting new people to subscribe.
It’s definitely not the only driving force anymore, that’s for sure. There used to be a Star Trek section under the TV shows on P+ or CBS AA, but now it has been removed.
CBS/Viacom used to claim that whatever Trek show was the #1 show on their channel, but now SNW is just #1 Trek show on the channel. (And yet the ‘fans’ here are cheering like it’s the most significant victory ever.)
Yeah I noticed that too a few weeks ago. Why would they take away the Star Trek section??? It’s SO weird. Every other streaming site out there have made separate sections for their biggest brands and IPs and Paramount+ can’t even keep the one that they are bragging about in their press releases like this one. It didn’t even include the movies or documentaries, just the shows.
I thought they would be building on the brand in the service as more shows came, not remove it completely.
Your last sentence nails the current state of Paramount+. The service is beginning to stand on its with original content that’s not Star Trek.
The one and only one reason I subscribed to P+ was for Star Trek. Admittedly I’m in the minority on that one, though. But because of Trek P+ is the only service I have ever kept the subscription for more than 2 months. Others I subscribe to just to catch up on some shows I liked. Then can it right away. No streaming service is worth paying year round for. Even P+ which I nearly do anyway only because I’m a sucker for Star Trek.
I’m not surprised that people on a Star Trek fan site would subscribe to a streaming service because of Star Trek.
I can’t subscribe to Paramount+ because it’s not available where I live but I first subscribed to Netflix because of Star Trek Discovery.
However, it seems that the times are long gone when Star Trek fans made up the majority of All Access/Paramount+ subscribers.
Given how much you hate most of the new Trek shows I don’t understand why you keep watching. But I won’t get into that discussion. Personally, I’m not a fan of hate-watching something I don’t enjoy but it’s clear that other people do. So if it’s what you want, by all means go for it.
I don’t understand the concept of “hate watching”. If I am not a fan of something I will not sit and watch those shows. But I will watch shows and features in a franchise I am a fan off because I’m a fan. Just because the franchise is currently floundering and sucking really hard doesn’t mean I am abandoning being an enthusiast. I will go to the sports example yet again. My team currently sucks. Hard. Yet there I am still watching them play. Knowing the season is lost but I still watch, rooting for them to win even though I know it’s pointless. That what fans do. And maybe in the future things will turn around and things will get better for the team.
Yes, you bring that sports example again and again. Going with that analogy, I would argue that Star Trek is actually a whole sport, with each show representing a team. You can be a fan of the sport, but it doesn’t mean you have to follow every team.
Given your comment history here, it’s pretty clear that you have always been pretty picky about which teams you like and which you don’t (or don’t care much, at least). It’s not just the current state of the game.
Oh, and you can hate-watch a sports team too. If the only reason you show up at every game is so that you can complain how terribly the team is playing, you’re hate-watching.
Why should you feel any obligation towards a team where all the players have changed, all the coaches and team managers have changed, and they are playing a different type of game that you don’t enjoy? Doesn’t make any more sense for a sports team than it does for a TV show.
I don’t think your analogy that the different Trek shows are the different teams in the league really works. It’s pretty natural to have rivals in a league. It is very possible for a franchise to not have any entries that you hate. So I don’t think that is a good analogy. A better analogy would be each show is a different team that you are also a fan of in a different league. And for the record, I do like to follow the entire league anyway. For me that makes being a fan more fun. Besides, when my team sucks it’s nice to see the game played well by someone else even if it’s not your team. Unless it’s your rival. ;)
I wouldn’t call fans of crappy teams who watch and complain as “hate watching”. They want their team to improve and if it does the complaining will recede. Although there are fans who will complain about everything even if the team is winning. It’s just in their nature to complain. But there is no such thing as a “true” fan in anything. Each fan follows the franchise as they like.
This is closest to TOS trek out of all the other shows.
This is a show that isn’t afraid to ask the big questions, like, what if you just wanted to hang out and make pancakes but you got stuck in the ALIEN franchise or a TV episode from 1966? What kind of food would you prepare then?
There’s no question in my mind that SNW has the highest rewatch value of any of the new series, with the exception perhaps of Lower Decks. Technically, LD is the only series that I’ve actually done a re-watch “marathon.” However, I plan to re-watch a number of SNW episodes.
The last seasons of Discovery and ESPECIALLY Picard really failed on the serialized nature of the plots. They both dragged so low mid-season. Discovery recovered strongly in the last few episodes. Picard did not.
I think Prodigy is actually exceptional for what it represents. I simply am not the target audience, so I don’t enjoy quite so much.
I think there is a reason why LDS and SNW are basically a tie for me in terms of the new shows and why I’m excited about the cross over. They are easily the most rewatchable for me. I too done several rewatches of LDS and plan to with SNW soon. I’ll probably watch both seasons of LDS right before season 3 starts.
Prodigy is really good too and plan to rewatch the season when new episodes start up again.
I remember reading some subscriber projections for CBSAA from way back in mid 2019. They were hoping for 25 million subs by 2022 – and I thought those figures were pretty ambitious.
As Tiger2 said above, P+ made some serious improvements and voila!
Either there was some sandbagging going on OR some people at P+ may be getting some nice bonuses this Christmas.
Getting back to basics and good writing is what has helped it become a success. Now it needs to dial back some of Pike’s ‘cuteness’ and overly familiar / casual behavior of some other crew members to really make it shine as a classic.
Dump the lame Picard and awful Discovery and put all the effort and money into SNW.
Well Picard is wrapped already if I’m not mistaken, but I couldn’t agree more about DSC. I’m going to try to get into the animated stuff a little more.
I am crossing my fingers Picard season 3 goes out in a bang at least. But yeah I’m still very skeptical of that as well. But since Matalas keep saying season 3 is nothing like the first two seasons and that it’s the most TNG in scope with the entire cast back then I’m really hoping we are getting a great season.
I’ve now seen the first 3 episodes of The Orville and I really think that if you want to see TNG return just watch that show. It practically is TNG.
complain complain complain. thats all you do on this website.sad
give it a rest you whiners.
just so sad to read all the whiners and complainers about the other star trek shows. just pathetic. we should be thankful that Paramount is even doing ANY Star Trek. instead I read comments by people who have no concept how difficult it is to create a TV show. grow up snow flakes !