Zoe Saldana Thinks Delay On ‘Star Trek 4’ Is More Than Just Scheduling

Things have been quiet on the Paramount Pictures front since the director exited and they removed the “Star Trek 4” project from their 2023 schedule back in September. Zoe Saldana is the first member of the Kelvin movies cast to talk about the proposed follow-up to 2016’s Star Trek: Beyond since the big shakeup.

Saldana is ready for more Trek

Since Paramount Pictures and producer J.J. Abrams announced in February 2022 that they were moving forward with a new movie slated for Christmas of 2023, the members of the Star Trek Kelvin movie cast since have had a consistent refrain: They are excited to return to work together and expect a movie to eventually happen, but were skeptical it could happen on time with shooting originally announced to start this fall.

One person who hadn’t talked publicly about Star Trek 4 so far this year is Zoe Saldana (Uhura), but the subject finally came up when she was a guest for the latest episode of Deadline’s 20 Questions podcast. Saldana echoed the statements of her co-stars about wanting to do another movie together, and agreed there were issues with the timing. However, she also indicated the schedule may not be the only thing holding the film back:

We were in touch with J.J. and we were trying to sort of see if we were going to be able to this past fall. I don’t think it was possible. I have my sort of ideas that maybe it was just like schedules were very… we couldn’t manage to get a whole cast and a whole crew to sort of come together. But I think as well it probably has something else to do with the project. But I know that we’re all on the same page that we would love nothing more than to be able to come back.

Zoe Saldana as Uhura and John Cho as Sulu in Star Trek Beyond

What’s the holdup at Paramount?

It’s unclear what the “something else” is that Saldana’s referring to. It could be related to director Matt Shakman’s exit from the project in August. Shortly before Shakman’s exit, Chris Pine again stated how he was excited to return and looked forward to playing Captain Kirk in future films throughout his career, but he also noted he was still waiting to see a script. Earlier in the year, Pine revealed that he had spoken to Paramount executives, imploring them not to shoot for Marvel-level box office for the next Star Trek film. This issue of finding the right balance of budget and scale for Star Trek movies to make a profit is something Paramount has wrestled with since launching the film franchise in 1979.

In August, after Shakman left the project, the studio issued a statement signaling a continued commitment to the project, saying they were “excited about the creative vision of this next chapter and look forward to bringing it to audiences all around world” as they began a search for a new director. This week the studio did some more shuffling of their 2023 schedule, which included moving the wide release of the Brad Pitt/Margot Robbie film Babylon to the December 23 date formerly held by Star Trek 4. Their 2024 calendar is already filling up with eight movies now scheduled, including an animated Transformers movie and another Mission: Impossible movie in the summer and a Sonic the Hedgehog movie for the Christmas season. There is still room, as Paramount Pictures CEO Brian Robbins recently committed to releasing up to 15 films each coming year.

Over the summer (before Shakman’s exit), Robbins stated the studio was “deep into it” regarding Abrams’ Star Trek 4 project, adding that they were “close to the starting line” ahead of the announced production in the fall. Obviously they missed that starting line. However, since taking over the studio in 2021, Robbins has been publicly bullish on Star Trek, indicating Paramount was developing a multi-film plan and stating, “Where we go with the franchise next theatrically is crucial to the health of the overall franchise.”

It is now clear that the movie studio is struggling to put a plan into place even as they move forward with their other big film franchises like Transformers and Mission: Impossible. Conversely, on the television side, Paramount+ has five current Star Trek shows running—although, with Picard wrapping up in early 2023, that number will come down unless Paramount+ finally gives the greenlight to one of the multiple Star Trek TV projects in development.

Paramount Pictures CEO Brian Robbins

Bonus Zoe: Meeting Nichelle Nichols was “groundbreaking”

EW has released a short excerpt from a new interview with Saldana on YouTube where she talks about what it was like to meet the late Nichelle Nichols.

Keep up with all the news on Star Trek 4 and upcoming Trek films at TrekMovie.com.

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Star Trek always struggles at the box office because it’s a niche property that doesn’t make superhero profits- yet requires big budgets to produce. It’s a catch-22.

That’s only true if superhero-level profits is the expectation. In actuality, even the few poorly performing ones eventually show a profit. It’s a profitable movie franchise, period.

Ask any movie exec and they will say of course superhero-level profits is always the expectation. Why else would there be 30+ MCU movies in the past 20 years and only 4 Treks made in the same period. Each time it’s a massive struggle to convince the studio of the value of the property and they often get burned…

Nah, it’s mainly because Paramount was a disaster of the company for the last decade and nearly went bankrupt — they were so inept they couldn’t even market a Trek 50th anniversary with Beyond, and moved it’s opening date to coincide with the Summer Olympics…lol

Movie studio execs who know their shit would not expect Trek to make MCU money…but here’s where I agree with you ==> Paramount had morons in the exec positions during the 2000-teens who were believing that Trek could do superhero money. And now that they are gone, the new brass is revaluating where to go with this, and obviously they don’t have these expectations, hence the big pause and them giving that overrated Marvel Bewitched Reboot dude his walking papers.

But you are right in that the former Paramount execs who were part of the near downfall of the studio did believe Trek could make MCU money. They are gone now. The new regime obviously does not believe that, hence the reevaluation that is now occurring that Zaldana is alluding to.

Sounds about right.

It really seems like Mission Impossible and Top Gun 2 are the only places where they’ve made money in a long while. Star Trek is a valuable property for them but it makes far more in merchandising. Even movies which in the past have made money for them like Transformers can fail like the last knight did, or underperform like Bumblebee.

I honestly think you are both right. How Paramount handled the 50th anniversary was a travesty. But OTOH, you can’t make JJ level movies with Star Trek and not get Star Wars level returns and that’s obviously what Paramount was hoping for. Heck, that’s what they’ve been hoping for since TMP. They need to realize that Bennet and Meyer had it right all along. Don’t focus on the budget, focus on the story. Then you get 3 movies for the price of 1 that actually perform better to boot.

There is no reason a Star Trek movie needs to cost 150-200 million dollars. I mean don’t get me wrong, I love all the good shit that money brings but you could easily, easily make a Trek movie for 100 million or less. Re use some of the discovery/Strange new world sets, use that LED stage craft tech, keep the number of new sets down, have the story be more personal. Use cheaper FX houses. Honestly, CGI has gotten to the point where having two ships chasing each other in space isn’t going to break the bank. You don’t need ILM. Would it be great to have them? Yes. But if u wanna keep the cost down? Go to a lesser known shop & give yourself a longer post production schedule. If Strange New Worlds can cost 10 million for a 50 minute episode & have FX that decent, having a movie that costs 75-90 million for 2 hours shouldn’t be that much more of a leap.

Everybody calm down. The problem is as plain as the nose on our face. TREK FILMS have become formula. STOP having one bad guy and create solid sci-fi stories with these characters and budget some talented big name actors. This should solve some problems. And even consider a guest actor or two from the current streaming series!!! Stop trying to nickel and dime these films on a TV budget. Gamble on your writers more!!! As far as a director, go with FRAKES he knows the material and these characters inside-out!!!!

I think you’re onto something here. And this also fits with what I’ve been wondering lately — is paramount trying to extricate themselves from the bad robot/jj relationship? I think your point and this point I am suggesting regarding bad robot are related. Maybe there are some smart guys at Paramont who listened to Pine and who were fine with the overrated Marvel “Bewitched Reboot” streaming series showrunner walking out the door?

So yeah, maybe “the glass is half full” here after all?

Paramount only wants Marvel/Star Wars movies disguised as a Star Trek movie. Because they know it’s too hard to get anyone to care about them other than Star Trek fans sadly. And a lot of fans have turned their noses at these movies.

Star Trek belongs on TV. A lot of the new stuff is bad but the stuff that is good like Lower Decks, SNW and Prodigy is really good! It’s starting to feel like Trek in the 90s again. People are saying season 3 of Picard actually is peak TNG again. I’m still doubtful on that. The trailer made it look like another villain who wants revenge on the Federation like Nemesis and JJ verse nonsense. But I want to see all my guys back together doing their thing again so I cross my fingers.

The movies always do the same thing, introduce a one note bad guy and lots of EXPLOSIONS! Story, science and exploration always take a backseat. The kids cartoon has been more Star Trek than most of the movies…and more mature than JJ verse. How sad is that. 🤣

Maybe if they make another movie before 2035 it will be an actual Star Trek movie (although Beyond at least felt like one again if still trying to appeal to Marvel fans. Too bad nobody cared.). And would love Frakes to direct again! He obviously loves and gets Star Trek. We need someone like that again.

That’s true for the old guard at Paramount who were all let go post-merger. What you are missing here is that them booting out the door that overrated Marvel “Bewitched Reboot” streaming series showrunner is quite possibly highlighting a reevaluation of this MCU-like approach to the movies. This pause is probably a good thing, and I would not be shocked to hear that Kurtzman is advising the Paramount execs on the next movie(s) direction, and I would also not be shocked to hear that Bad Robot will be out for the next movie, or at least their role will be diminished significantly if it is not contractually possible to jettison them.

You know we always hear from fans that the shows are considered better than the movies. I honestly believe that too but I decided to put it to the test and see how well that matches with audience scores and ratings. I picked IMDB being the biggest movie and TV site and a non-Trek fan site.

First the TV shows (highest to lowest):

-The Next Generation: 8.7
-The Original Series: 8.4
-Strange New Worlds: 8.2
-Deep Space Nine: 8.1
-Voyager: 7.8
-Enterprise: 7.5
-Lower Decks: 7.5
-Picard: 7.3
-Prodigy: 7.1
-Discovery: 7.0

That’s not bad! For me, anything 7.0 or above I would consider average. Anything 8,0 or above is above average. Despite how much people may personally love or hate a show, they are all at least rated pretty decently.

Now let’s see how the movies fare overall (not as good lol).

-Star Trek 09: 7.9
-Into Darkness: 7.7 (Feel proud Orci!!)
-The Wrath of Khan: 7.7
-First Contact: 7.6
-The Voyage Home: 7.3
-The Undiscovered Country: 7.2
-Beyond: 7.0
-Generations: 6.6
-The Search for Spock: 6.6
-Insurrection: 6.4
-Nemesis: 6.4
-The Motion Picture: 6.4
-The Final Frontier: 5.5 (YIKES!!!!!)

That’s a big difference between the films and shows. None of the films are rated above average and nearly half of them (HALF) are rated below average. This really says it all. The TOP film is just rated a point above Voyager, which is in the middle tier of rated shows. Even beloved WOK is at a 7.7.

Into Darkness ranked higher than Lower Decks and Enterprise AND Star Trek 09 ranked higher than Voyager…dude, you made my day…LOL

Yes and they also rated higher than Prodigy, Picard and Discovery. What is your point man? It’s like talking to a 12 year old sometimes.

And as said, it’s not surprising. Way more people watch the films than shows and as I stated, the Kelvin movies are driven more by casual and newer viewers than the shows. So it’s a positive for the Kelvin movies which I been saying for years, but unfortunately popularity doesn’t always equal big box office.

The main take away is that the shows, all of them, are popular too. But the movies has struggled a lot more in the fanbase overall. So it’s not surprising why fans aren’t too bothered by not having another movie. The TV shows just bring more interest.

I am just having fun with these half-BS numbers. Of course we can’t use these numbers to make real comparisons with — it’s not scientific – and we covered that before. Sheesh.

My apologies if my humor and sarcasm is not getting through today though.

Of course, the ONLY point was to talk about the huge divide between the shows and the films. We all use them because it’s the only data we have obviously. And I’m not using them for any agendas (I mean I do like the movies lol), but making the point they do have a bigger struggle in the fanbase and probably why it’s best to focus on the shows. And obviously a lot less risk involved.

I mean the Kelvin films are popular but even the top two are lower rated than most of the classic shows. And Beyond is lower rated than all of them (although its my favorite out of the three). That’s not a great average when you are sinking $200 million into them.

But we all use user scores to make comparisons or to judge the perception of the fanbase, including you when it suits your needs. So yeah.

And I apologize too. I am probably a little cranky today lol.

That list is crazy but looks about right lol.

Into Darkness 7.7? Ok, ummm….

Ok I’ll add a little more. Yes the new shows are the lowest rated NOW, but we have to remember they are STILL new! Shows are different obviously since they continually run but those stay in flex for sometimes years. For example, Lower Decks, Discovery and Prodigy all started in the 6’s. Now they all risen to 7’s which means they all improved as their seasons went on. So things can change. A decade ago Enterprise was at 7.1. Now it’s at 7.5 for the last few years. It proves that even old shows still can rise or drop as newer people watch the show the obviously. Discovery is the lowest now, but who knows? In a decade it can be at 8.0. Have to see how it all fares when its done.

Actually Picard use to be higher. It was at 7.5 first season but dropped to 7.3 now. Frankly I’m shocked it’s this high lol. SNW is an instant hit! The only new show to be rated above average. It was an 8.2 after it first episode. If it stays good it will probably go above TOS in a few years. Maybe even TNG. So that’s pretty good lol.

The movies, yeah. But it not only shows how much lower they are overall but it does prove that the movies don’t reflect most long time fan ratings as the shows do. And a big reason for that is the movies have way more casual and new fans rating them as well. As much as you and others think the Kelvin movies were made by Satan, the reality is (as shown) they are really really popular. Yes maybe more so for being good action movies than Star Trek movies, but that was the point. They wanted these movies to be embraced by an audience that wouldn’t dare watch any of the old movies and in THAT regard, they succeeded. The problem is it was never enough of them. And as we can see, Beyond, the movie most of the fans liked at least is the lowest rated of the three. Why, because it was probably the most ‘Trek-y’ out of the bunch.

This is why it’s so much harder for a Trek film to succeed. They need a wider base to make money and that usually equal more action. But then it alienates a lot of the long time fans and so they are always struggling to satisfy both sides and the success rate of that has been middling IMO.

…yep, and then there is also the fact that this is not a scientific poll by any stretch of the imagination. But yeah, they are fun to read and banter about in fan forums.

No one does scientific polls for shows or movies lol. It’s always just a straight rating/voting system. The movies and shows that wins Oscars/Emmy’s every year are just voted on by people in the industry.

But it drives the point home why the fanbase has never loved the movies as much as the shows. Even if you just look at TOS since it has the most iconic films, none of them has equaled or surpassed TOS. Same for TNG. There is just a stark divide there.

Yeah, I agree. The main issue I have with these polls (as I’ve mentioned before) is that different groups of fans and non-fans voted for each entry…so it’s not the same 2000 people who are voting on all of the Trek series — if that same 2000 people voted for all the Trek entries that would at least give us a better relative comparison between the series/movies. And not only that, it’s mostly fans who are on the internet a lot, so it’s more skewed to hardcore fans and fanboy types, which leaves out a lot of fans and public who like Star Trek. So I really don’t trust these numbers and never will, other than for very general trends like seeing the Nemesis and V suck and WOK and Trek 2009 are well liked.

You’re getting hung up on individual scores. I’m looking at them on a macro scale. That’s it. I’m not ‘comparing’ the movies, I’m saying half of them generally suck for a lot of the fanbase. That’s not great lol.

And dude you USE user ratings too, right? So what is the difference??? You use IMDB too. I mean you obviously trusted them before lol.

So it’s OK to use them when you want to point things out, but I can’t? WTF? It’s coming off hypocritical man. And I find it odd for a guy who constantly use his convention friends to tell the rest of us what the pulse of the entire fanbase is lol. According to them Discovery is actually loved and only half wants a Janeway show, right? So how ‘accurate’ should I take that?? But you want to question actual scores? So just move on.

You are just not getting what I am saying. For example, if I would poll those 50 Trek fans of mine and ask them to rate all series and all movies, then at least I would be able to trust the relative comparisons on the ratings between the shows, because they all completed the survey…COMPARED TO the IMDB ratings, where a lot of the Trek movie ratings are from people to who voted a decade or more ago versus different groups who are voting on today’s ongoing series (and we don’t even know if those voters are voting for each series today…some might be just voting for one of them only, etc.). Apples and oranges, plus I mentioned the other issues above. And there there are they other issues I mentioned above that internet polls are not representative of general audiences that watch Trek.

Also, I never said you couldn’t draw some conclusions from them on a macro scale. Heck, I even confirmed that’s OK by saying we would judge really bad movies (Nemesis, V) versus really good movies (WOK, Trek 2009) at a macro level. So I’m not sure why you think I rejected that? I have no issue with your macro comparison. I just was having fun with the couple of the ratings, but you are in a really serious mood today. Whatever, yeah, let’s both of us just move on from this.

And yet you use IMDB user scores to make a point but NOW you want to question it? And what you are saying now is complete BS because you didn’t take any of that into account when you have cited data to compare other shows or movies. But whatever.

Yeah let’s seriously move on dude. It’s just hypocritical to me, but fine.

i don’t think I’m doing that, and I actually agree that you and I can make some macro comparisons, but fine, let’s just move on.

Here, I found an example I’m talking about. Your name use to be Methuselah, right? Of course I’m right. Here is some of your hypocritical BS on display:

Reply to  TG47
 October 8, 2020 10:09 pm

Never heard of Parrot Analytics, sorry. I have heard of IMDB, where LDS had a dismal 6.2 rating, whereas Discovery has an OK 7.2 and TNG has a great 8.6 rating — these feel about right to me and my Trek convention fan group buddies.

There is no getting around the fact that this series just isn’t well thought of outside of some hardcore Trek fan websites. Go ahead and do a random web search on reviews of this series — most general reviewers say it stinks. I am not making this up — search for yourself. It’s simply not growing the audience.

It is what it is. Sorry!


So here you are getting on my case for citing numbers from IMDB you have said several times now on this board YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN!’ but funny enough you used it to cite that Lower Decks rating of 6.2 to prove it’s not liked much in the fanbase. And the REASON I call your above message BS is because you have the nerve to talk about ‘relative comparisons’ when conducting surveys and telling me it’s unfair to compare shows or movies because different people took them at different times.

But then you compare LDS ‘dismal’ 6.2 rating not just to Discovery’s 7.2 rating but also Next Generation’s 8.6 rating at the time. Dude, you just compared a new show that was, and I’m not kidding, 2 months old at the time to 30 year old show! You didn’t quality it the same way *I* qualified my post when I said you can’t judge the new show’s ratings because they are new. I take that into account because I’m trying to be fair and objective, right? But yet here you are telling everyone a show that wasn’t finished with it’s first season was on it’s way to cancellation because a few thousand people voted on the first few episodes. And BASED on IMDB ‘dismal’ numbers. Do you not see what I’m getting at yet when I call you a hypocrite? I think you do. ;)

And the most hilarious part is you ONLY pointed this stuff out because you hate Lower Decks which, at the time was lower rated then your favorite shows like Discovery which had a much higher 7.2 rating at the time. Cut to two years later, LDS has not only PASSED Discovery rating, Discovery’s rating has gotten lower. Now it’s only 7.0. I learned something today thanks to you. So both Picard AND Discovery has fallen. I can see why now you don’t trust the numbers anymore. ;D

But now I’m the one LOL!!!!!!!!

And you weren’t just using this for ‘banter’ man, you were citing this as EVIDENCE that Lower Decks was a hated show in the fanbase and will be canceled in the second season lol. It wasn’t ‘here are some people who don’t like it’. It’s ‘this is proof that the show is a dismal failure and will be on its way out soon’. People asked you based on WHAT. That is what you cited man. Again, I have to stress, for a show 7 or 8 episodes in its first season, right?

This is why trying to have discussions with people like you is utter frustrating. Maybe you just forgot you posted this (although I’m sure you posted it in a dozen other places) but One Lion do you understand why I am calling you a hypocrite now?

Because people like you only want to spin the argument in your direction and you ONLY accept data when it works in your favor and this is what pisses me off. You had no problem telling others to just scan the internet as it ‘proves’ your point that Lower Decks wasn’t well liked and referenced IMDB ratings to a show when it suits your argument.

So if you want to keep arguing with me over numbers, fine, but stop being a hypocrite about it. But this is why I don’t want to have discussions with certain people, because when you talk to people who just want to spin everything they like as a positive but everything they hate as a negative, then it’s not a real conversation. Right? And unfortunately you do this a LOT!

But it is what it is!


I had a feeling this guy was Methuselah. Right on the money again Tiger.

LOL, wait, I wasn’t trying to ‘out’ anybody. He wasn’t banned or anything. I just thought he changed his name which people do at times here. I thought everyone could tell who it was. But that wasn’t my intent. It’s the hypocrisy I’m talking about.

LOL, yeah. Dvorak isn’t exactly going to replace Colombo anytime soon…lol

Dvorak to OneLion: Oh, just one more thing.


Dude, just ask me, I would have confirmed that. You make it sound like an Unsolved Mysteries ep…lol

I bring it up because you had the audacity to accuse me of being an alt of someone us… and lo and behold you are guilty of that yourself. Do you see you the irony? That’s all I’ll say because this has become too off-topic.

“Cut to two years later, LDS has not only PASSED Discovery rating, Discovery’s rating has gotten lower. Now it’s only 7.0.”

This is utterly hilarious! 😂😂😂

So Discovery has managed to fall lower in four seasons while Lower Decks has jumped passed it two! That sounds about right!

I’m just shocked Discovery is even at 7.0. Don’t even bother looking at the RT user reviews…not pretty! Not pretty at all kids.

OMG you mentioned your convention buddies in this post too lol! Fck me man!!!! So of course they naturally fall on the side of those numbers too as you diligently pointed out….you know the numbers from the site you been telling me shouldn’t be trusted????

It would be funny if it wasn’t sad. Sorry, I don’t like hypocrites.

LOL it took me two minutes. We have this thing called Google search. I typed in your old username and ‘IMDB’ and clicked on a few and that was the first one I found. That’s how I find all the old threads here.

I’m not trying to put you on the spot or another gotcha moment, but dude you WROTE it lol. I just read it man. And I remembered it because I’m sure you wrote it in several places. You do that a lot. But this is why I’m so frustrated with your posts because you are going on and on about this crap and reasons why you can’t trust IMDB and I’m just reading it thinking “Is this for real??? Does he NOT remember the times HE used it to make basically the exact same point???

And I KEPT saying you used it too but you would just ignore it like it didn’t matter if you did or not and THAT’S what bothered me man. Somehow I was in the wrong but it was OK for you to use it.

One Lion, you’re a good guy and I know I can be a pain in the butt, but it’s very very frustrating to have a conversation with you. You were the one who kept arguing over this. THE ONLY ONE HERE LOL!! I just wanted to talk about the damn differences in perceptions of the shows and the movies, but you wanted to talk about this and then had the NERVE to say you would never use it as an example because you don’t ‘trust’ it.

Well clearly you trusted it when you were trying to convince everyone LDS was a crap show the fanbase rejected totally 8 episodes in right? You were suggesting these numbers PROVED the show was on it’s way to cancellation lol. After all, it did get a ‘dismal’ rating on IMDB with a 6.2.

And now here you are going on about how you can’t trust internet polling because different people voted at different times and all of this BS. I called you OUT on it. You denied it and so I wanted to prove my point, correct?

So you had no problem using it when it suited YOUR argument man. None, right?

But now when some of the numbers don’t line up in your favor you want to argue the entire system is imperfect. Sorry dude, you can’t have it both ways man and you do this A LOT!!!!!!!!!!! Which I ignore 90% of the time btw because it doesn’t involve me. Well this one did.

Look,I think it’s just best we don’t talk. Because it’s just too frustrating trying to have a real conversation when you just spin things a certain direction ALL the time and constantly want to disregard others points because it contradicts your argument. It shouoln’t be this exhausting to talk about Star Trek lol.

Let me ask you this. If I wanted to spend the time looking through years of Trekmovie comments of yours, are you confident that I couldn’t find an instance or two when you were inconsistent on something, where you didn’t say something years ago that you have contradicted recently?

I mean, I remember a ways back you saying something like Star Wars fans would not accept the prequel series that we get in Star Trek and would be up in arms if they came up with a prequel series to Rouge One, yet, having remembered you saying something like that, I was struck by you recently defending Andor as a generally good series, and also I I think we can agree that SW fans in general seeming to be favorable on it. Is that being consistent?

But the funny thing to me here is I told you that I have no issue with your macro comparisons using IMDB. If fact, I agree with about 90% of what you have posted today. I don’t even know what MAJOR thing we are supposedly disagreeing on here today, but you seem very upset, and are calling me a 12-year old and a hypocrite?

I’ll just say this, yes, I admit that stuff I said years back might not always line up with my opinions today. If you want to name call me a hypocrite for that, OK, whatever, I will accept that. If that doesn’t apply to you and you are 100% consistent in your opinions and info over the years here, then congratulations…you are a more perfect human being than I am by a long shot.

PS: I get the criticism that I spin stuff too much — I will work on that in the future. Good observation.

LOL it took me two minutes to find. We have this thing called Google Search. I typed in your old username and ‘IMDB’ and a few links came up. That was the first one I found.

And dude, I wasn’t trying to put you on the spot or make a ‘gotcha’ but you kept going on about how you don’t ‘trust’ the polls and the BS about how you can’t compare shows or movies from different people unless they are all taking the same survey at the same time, whatever, but it was eye rolling and why I KEPT calling you out on it.

What frustrated me is you ignored when I kept saying you did the same thing. It was like it was just OK for you to do it, but then you wanted to get on my case about it. And I kept reading your posts thinking “Does this guy seriously not remember when he did the same thing and literally used the same site?? Like WTF????” You kept ignoring it so then I wanted to show you I’m not crazy. And yes you’re a hypocrite.

One Lion, I ONLY wanted to talk about the differences between perceptions of the films vs the shows. You’re the ONLY ONE HERE ARGUING ABOUT IT lol. You are the one who wanted to throw in your points about why it’s an imperfect system.

But apparently it’s OK for YOU to use it when you wanted to crap on LDS! And this is why it’s useless to have a conversation with you. You always do this, you constantly try and disregard other arguments when it goes against your own but then want to use that SAME points when it suits your arguments.

Again, that post is the perfect example. When people bring up Discovery and say why its suck and tell others look at other boards and sites to prove their point you always discount it, say it’s just bitter fanboys and say it doesn’t prove anything. But then you literally used that same argument for Lower Decks! Right? So I’m not just calling you out on IMDB. You do this a lot and it’s really really really annoying. And I ignore it 90% of the time, but this time it involved me.

One Lion I think you’re a good guy but it’s like arguing with my 70 year old uncle a lot. You always spin the shows you like as a positive but you always try to spin shows you hate as a negative. And it’s really tiring trying to have a real conversation like this with. This entire exchange is what I mean lol.

So I think it’s best we stop talking. I’m not angry, you did nothing wrong per se, but it shouldn’t be THIS exhausting to talk about Star Trek lol. And I’m not telling you not to respond to me. You can obviously. Just don’t expect me to respond back, that’s all. And maybe after a few days I will feel better and will interact. But now you always get the last word! ;)

I certainly get the critique and will try to improve. My apologies.

Thank you for posting this! I didn’t know the movies were rated so badly. 🤣

The TNG and half the TOS movies are not great at all sadly. I can watch most of them but it’s only four films I can truly say I love: TWOK, FC, TUC and TVH. That’s it! If I never watched the others again I wouldn’t care!

And believe me I know the JJ movies are popular. Because everyone around me loves them. 🙄 Well the first one at least. All my non Trekkies friends LOVES that movie. I think it’s utter traaaash. They would tell me the TOS movies looked too old and boring and you realize you’re talking to straight dumbasses! And one of them is a lawyer. A dumbass lawyer!

So you’re not wrong, there is a divide for sure. But the problem is it didn’t make them care about Star Trek either. It’s just another CGI popcorn movie they watched but then moved on. That’s the problem with JJ verse. People like it but new fans are not attached to them like old fans. My friends stopped talking about these movies long ago. But here I am talking about them on a message board although the last time I watched one was literally back in 2016. So figure that out. 🤣🤣

As far as the shows I basically like all of them now except two of them. That’s a really good record. But for a long time I only cared about TNG and VOY. I learned to love DS9 but years later. I still don’t love ENT or TOS today (more of a 24th century fan) but grew to like both of those too. But that took even more years lol. I watch Enterprise all the time now. Me and my girlfriend just did a complete rewatch of it. It’s her second favorite show after TNG! 😎

The shows are great. The movies just want to be something else. Sometimes it works but most of the time they just feel they are being pulled in two different ways like JJ verse and the TNG movies. You can feel the studio meddling in so many of them. TMP is the most Star Trek movie ever…. but it’s sooo boring bro!! (My friends are right about that one.) 😂

The shows can just be pure Star Trek like ALL the time and why I love them even when they suck. 🖖

If TNG were to start airing Season 1 today, people might rate it a 6 — if it wasn’t outright cancelled after “Code of Honor”. :)

It got better over 7 years and 178 episodes, even as it suffered from the reset button effect and airing in potential out-of-order syndication. And after 35 years, it has a warm fuzzy glow of familiarity and nostalgia, but I still rarely revisit S1 episodes.

Movies that wrap up in 2 hours are qualitatively different experiences to TV shows that run for 133.5 hours, and they can both be good, but in different ways. A cinematic experience focuses and heightens everything to create a specific mood / journey in a singular story, vs. a TV show which explores multiple stories and multiple moods over months.

I like Star Trek 2009 for what it is, not what it isn’t. I like SNW for what it is, not what it isn’t. The fact that it has modern production design is, to me, a bonus, but it’s the storytelling and characters that they nailed – you want to know more about every single one of them.

You know me, I’m still hopeful that PIC S3 will be the one where they get it right, even if it is the last season. But who knows. The important thing that gives me pause is they are taking inspiration from the TOS movies and not TNG.

Star Trek got it right exactly once with the big bad formula and they have been trying to recreate it ever since. They seriously need to stop recreating Khan. He isn’t the Joker. Let him go!

No script will do that.

Or sets. Props. Costumes. Contracted talent.

Don’t forget the director…and money! 😂

I doubt we’ll see a 4th Kelvinverse movie. The franchise has changed and grown quite a bit since 2016. And I’m sure that Kurtzman would prefer that his new Kirk, Spock, Uhura, etc. don’t get upstaged by another film’s version of those characters- even if it’s set in an alternate timeline. Aside from potentially making money (which is a big if after BEYOND’s box office), there’s no point to another Kelvinverse movie. That’s a narrative bubble, a dead end. Like it or not, Kurtzman has the franchise’s future stories in hand.

Like it!

We’ll see one eventually, Even if it’s like 10 years down the road. Studios can’t resist bringing back properties and cast members from earlier projects. And the more time that goes by the more sentimental the marketing idea of bringing them back for another movie will be.

I would like for them to make a smaller TNG movie if they can’t make another $200 million CGI fest. But gear it to Paramount+. And who knows, if the last season of Picard is big enough, it may be possible.

Or, here is a crazy idea, make a movie with new cast of characters and setting. Something we NEVER seen before. I know it’s ‘radical’ to some but Star Trek has done radical things before. ;)

Beyond had a box office of $343 million, ST 2009 had a box office of $385 million. I don’t know why everyone keeps saying Beyond was a bomb. It didn’t pull it what was expected, but $343 million box office can hardly be considered a bomb.

I think others here got it when they say the repeated formula of a mustache-twirling villain got old. The JJ films tossed aside science and exploration and replaced it with explosions and action. The best Star Trek is thought provoking and inspired. The JJ movies were dumbed down for a teen audience and alienated many long-time fans.

Star Trek needs fresh blood and new ideas. Hopefully the new regime at Paramount recognize this and the pause is a necessary step in changing direction.

ST2009 budget was $150 million.

STB budget was $185 million.

ST2009 made $257 million in the U.S,, not only it’s biggest market but where it gets it’s biggest profit from.

STB made $156 million in the U.S., $100 million less than the first film. That is a HUGE drop for their biggest market.

You look at those factors and yes it is a bomb. I know people want to argue it wasn’t. But guys if Beyond made a billion dollars instead of $343 million, do you really think it would be this hard to just green light another movie 6 years later? It’s funny STID and Beyond had no problems getting the green light. Paramount is basically telling people it bombed because they are so afraid to just make another movie, Kelvin cast or not.

But I agree with your basic premise, the movies just relied on the same thing and it drove both new and old fans away. It just became a generic Star Trek series with a lot of CGI, comic book style villains and big explosions, but little awe or wonder. That’s sad for a film series that started with so much hype and promise but died just two films later. Whatever they do next, it has to be something to really WOW people to convince them it’s worth seeing in a theater and not just wait for it to hit Paramount+ in two months and watch the movie between your TNG and VOY marathons. And frankly they probably have no clue what that could be yet.

$343 million would be good if the movie didn’t cost $185 million. That’s not even twice it’s budget. These movies are expensive to market and once theaters get their cut… well, there’s a reason why the golden rule for profitability tends to be 2.5-3X a film’s budget.

So the prospects of the films only getting more expensive as the cast renegotiates from a position of strength are daunting. Paramount managed to get some pay concessions out of the most expensive players for The Undiscovered Country, but not apparently for Nemesis, and that led to the cast costing well over half of the film’s entire North American box office. Couple that with an audience’s expectations for spectacle on par with the other JJ films, and it’s quite a tightrope to walk for another Kelvin adventure.

I really think they could just be cleverer about a script rather than expect VFX to do the heavy lifting everywhere, then they wouldn’t need to spend more than $120 million on a film and that makes $300 million a perfectly acceptable hit. I say that like it’s easy; we take the likes of Nicholas Meyer, RDM, Braga and Harve Bennett for granted – what they managed to do in so little time with so little money on TWOK, TVH and even FC is exceptional. They have tight scripts that would have benefitted from bigger set pieces but were strong enough to not need them.

You guys aren’t counting the international box office, not counting the worldwide streaming, digital, cable/sat tv, network TV revenues, not counting the disc revenues (DVD, Blu, now 4K BLU), the novel and other supporting revenue items. It’s a major moneymaker when you factor in the profits over time from all that revenue. Heck, I am sure that Beyond is well in the black already when you factor in all that.

Just comparing North America box office only to the cost of the movie isn’t all that meaningful. Sure, shareholders in the release year care, but these franchise movies keep the cash rolling in for years, even decades. And the 3.0 factor is meant to include the international box office…the old 2.5 factor was used when the North American box office was king, but those days are long gone. But again, these figures only tell you if in the release year the film made it’s production cost back…it DOES NOT include all of the other revenue sources I mentioned above, and most of those are recurring revenue.

That being said, the studio certainly wants bigger year of release revenues — I am not arguing against their expectations of that. They want to increase their stock value, and long-term, recurring revenue streams aren’t as sexy and immediate and large box office dollars. But believe me, all the Trek movies have made plenty of money, and more of it rolls in every day.

PS: WOK re-used tons of sets, models and other stuff from the very expensive TMP movie, so that’s sort of an unfair comparison to tout how cost effective that movie was given it gravy-trained off of all that TMP stuff.

$343 billion is 1.85X Star Trek Beyond’s $185 million budget. I didn’t ignore anything. Physical media sales have plummeted, merchandising deals had dried up, studios’ cuts of international box office range from 40-50% in major markets to as low as 25% in China, and lots of films have complicated co-financing deals now. Studios also aren’t in the habit of spending big for a small return unless it brings the veneer of success and market share. For Paramount, Star Trek kinda does that, and Mission: Impossible certainly does. But that’s a lot of money to sink into productions and the performance of STB rightfully gave Paramount pause on how to approach these films in future.

Yeah everyone here laid out both the domestic and international numbers. It’s $343 million total.

I think the number is so low people are thinking it’s not the entire figure. 😂😂😂

Nope that’s it. That’s all of it. Movie didn’t even make twice it’s budget back and what makes it a dud.

And merchandising was a joke for this movie. They had nothing out compared to the old movies. You couldn’t even get a T shirt for it. No toys, cups, oven mitts, nothing!

I heard because the first movie merchandise bombed so there was no motivation to make any but movies this size usually make their money with merch. The Star Wars movies got more money selling the toys than the movies back in the day.

Not the case for JJ verse. People wanted to stick to the Prime universe stuff. That tells you right there Trekkies don’t really care about them and probably another reason these movies are dead in the water.

In all fairness, Trek has always been a tricky one to merchandise. We got all those lovely ERTL/AMT sets (such a fun anecdote that we owe the existence of the Klingon Battlecruiser to a deal with AMT) and Playmates, costumes, comm badges, games of varying quality etc, and the Las Vegas experience, but it’s nothing on what Star Wars inspired. The franchise was kid friendly until 2017 but still aimed at adults and full of science and diplomacy amidst the pew-pew action which sells toys. It was just not as accessible and nowadays is more for the collectible-minded.

The marketing in 2016 was indeed a joke though. Rested on their laurels overseas apart from a media tour for China, lackluster ad campaign which mostly focused on the villain’s bland plan and the spectacle of the Enterprise being ripped to shreds, which was no longer novel after having been done twice before since 2009. Add in the lack of synergy with CBS and it was such a mess of a 50th Anniversary, especially compared to how glorious it felt to be a fan in 1996.

Oh yeah I agree about the merchandise issues in general. But that was also the point with JJ verse. It was the first major Star Trek tentpole movie they were trying to treat like Star Wars.

They were hoping they get all the 8-12 year old kiddies (this movie target audience judging by its script) to become obsessed with this new property and beg their parents to buy the fratboy Kirk and eno Spock action figures and maybe a set of the Apple store bridge and sell them in droves.

Didn’t quite work out I guess. 😥 Also remember the STID video game everybody hated?

By the time Beyond showed up you couldn’t even get a Funko pop anywhere at a time those things were huge and had Funkos of the Family Ties cast.

It was amazing just how the merchandise felt as nonexistent as the marketing and hype for a movie celebrating the 50th anniversary.

And people wonder how could the movie fail so badly? 🤔

It’s truly amazing how much Paramount dropped the ball with this franchise. And six years later still dropping it! 😁

Maybe they should sell the movies to Apple+ and they make them. Can’t do any worse at this point.

I recall a rumor that Abrams was frustrated at the lack of synergy with CBS, which went all in on exploiting its legacy TV properties and made licensing a chore for Viacom post-split. If that is to believed, he wanted to be able to make video games (the one you reference was mired in difficulties apparently) and experiences that leveraged everything the former Viacom could have done. I don’t know that he was too involved with that at LucasFilm or anything he’s done for WBD, but if that was my ambition then the that decade was not a fun time to trying to bring cohesion to Star Trek and the fallout of the split is still happening.

Not to mention changing the release date to coincide with the Summer Olympics.

Wonder what the Orci ST3 merchandise wouldve been like? Probably more geared toward the anniversary due to the presence of Shatner in one of the main roles. at least an ADF novel (guess it mustve missed out due to the late change in script plans?)

I imagine it would’ve been better too. Having the real Kirk and Spock in the movie and hype up the fact it’s all part of the 50th anniversary would’ve at least made some waves.

But nah, those Krall dolls would’ve flew off the shelves if anyone bothered to make one I guess.

Just two weeks ago that HBO Max just paid Pararmount for a new streaming deal for all of the Trek movies, and then we had the 4K releases on Blu-Ray for all of the movies this year. Sure those BR numbers aren’t huge, but those sell for $35 a pop, and cost $3 to produce… that’s a huge profit margin.

The gravy train keeps on going for all of the movies. Each separate deal or piece of this may not be a huge deal, but the point here that these movie properties have long term, recurring revenue that keeps driving dollars to Paramount, and at this point, most of that money is profit.

Even the poorly performing movies like V, Nemesis and Beyond eventually make a pretty decent profit. The Trek movie catalog is a cash cow — not at the levels of Marvel or Star Wars — but Paramount is doing fine with year after year of long profits from the Trek movies, thank you. :-)

I agree with your comments on the box office calculations, and regarding less profits overseas, especially in China. And I will also add that it is no longer a given that a major Hollywood movie will even get a China release, given the poor relations between the U.S. and China these days.

I feel the same. It would be way too confusing to have a different Kirk, Spock, and Uhura on the big screen vs streaming. I mean Spiderman can pull it off but I don’t think Trek can.

Maybe Paramount is waiting for the 60 anniversary to unleash an epic multiverse Yesterdays Enterprise movie with the JJ and TNG casts, Hemsworth,and Shatner .

Then again maybe they’re done

Well, Shatner’s done. He doesn’t have another move in him now, let alone in two or three years from now.

he seems in decent health but I guess thatd be the case, but was thinking if he were to be in it(somehow) it’d be the younger TWOK-Generations era Shatner via CGI/DF body double like Luke in Mando etc

A big anniversary without Shatner out be like leaving Tom Baker out of DW’s 50th, or Shatner out of the 50th (oh wait..)

This is where opinions will vary. A deep faked Shat Headroom is of no interest to me at all.

Yeah maybe it does have something to do with something beyond scheduling Saldana.

Like maybe the fact they have no script, budget or director. 😂

Paramount just trolled everybody…hard. Was never fooled once this was a real thing no matter how many times deluded people kept saying it was happening. They know not enough fans care about JJ verse anymore. It’s been dead since 2016. Let it stay dead.

It’s their own fault. They made a bunch of empty formulaic action movies for teenagers and people got bored and moved on. Bad writing and white Khan… also didn’t help. 🙄

They are actually making real Star Trek again in the universe fans care about. Make a Prodigy movie. Unlike pew pew JJ, those guys actually understand Star Trek, will cost $100 million less and it (hopefully) won’t suck.

i can see the little cartoon in the letters page of The Official Fan Club magazine from the 90s

“How are we gonna get out of this one Spock? We’ve got no script, no budget or director…”

Whatever it turns out to be, just release it on P+ the same time it hits theaters. I’m already paying for it.

Yes! I’ve a huge TV, a killer sound system and my own snacks!!!

They won’t do that. After this year’s box office success, they’ve gotten the theatrical bug again. Paramount+ is mostly going to be for movies they don’t think are worth the distribution costs for theaters.

I think what you flag there is part of the issue with making another Trek movie. What is now special about the theatrical experience? Is it worth spending tens of millions of dollars on promoting a movie in theaters when it will be put on the streaming service weeks after a theatrical run? The Top Gun sequel suggests that for some movies it does, but how generalizable is that to most movies?

Another Trek movie will be on Paramount+ in six weeks or less. Reason #47 no one wants to make another one.

No way Kelvin 4 is happening, ever. No sense in making it. Trek has moved on.

I’m noting this and saving it.

OMG man, seriously????

You are trying to check someone else’s success rate on this? The same guy who has been telling us for years now that every movie announced was happening? How many times have you said that, about 1 or 200 times and probably on multiple boards. Look how convinced you were the last movie was coming, you even got on my case when I doubted it several times lol.

What do you want people to say at this point? The third potential Kelvin sequel is now on the backburner. The fifth movie overall. Stop turning it into a contest. Maybe he will be proven wrong, but you have been many times yourself. It could be ten or more years before we get another movie. And that’s sadly not an exaggeration. Even if they got their shit together and got one out by 2025, it will already be 9 years.

It’s really time to just do something new. Either they can’t get the money they need for the next film or just afraid the next one will bomb. And frankly it’s probably both if that’s the reason it can’t get financed. Neither is good for a movie series that’s already over a decade old. Yeah move on already Paramount!

I am glad I don’t take myself as seriously as you do. It was sarcasm…like, “really, so you are like Nostradamus here and can guarantee that?”…lol

Also, I admitted I was wrong on my earlier movie comments, so if that is a sort of “gotcha” directed at me, well I hate to diminish your enthusiasm, but I already took my crow on that one publicly and admitted I was wrong. If anything, that proves that both fans like BOTH Toncix and I should not be stating future predictions like they are facts already. So who better to provide that lesson to Toncix than me…lol

They are going to eventually make more movies. And I’d be shocked if someday that they didn’t decide to bring back the Kelvin cast for one of them. To proclaim it’s NEVER going to happen like that’s a given fact (No way Kelvin 4 is happening, ever) — well, that person is being obtuse.

It’s not a ‘gotcha’ man. All you had to say was you disagree, instead you turned it into a silly moment as if you were going to come back and neg on the guy the minute he’s proven wrong, although you been proven wrong for six years now lol. If you simply said you disagreed with him, I wouldn’t have said anything.

What are you ‘saving’ it for, so in 12 years they make another Kelvin movie you can crow about being right?? Do you not see the irony?

But OK, I was being too hard. So I apologize. It just seemed a little childish to me I guess. People are just giving their opinions which frankly seems to be the right one after 5 failed movie announcements and 6 years on.

Yeah, that irony is admittedly funny at my expense…lol

No worries

Don’t call me names. Learn some manners. And Kelvin 4 is not happening.

Didn’t call you a name. Said your prediction was Nostradumus-like it was so cut and dry, and you even said, “ever” which proclaimed it could never happen…that’s just wack, and implies you’re omnipotent…lol

Just idle speculation but I wonder if the sudden cancellation of Westworld will get JJ Abrams (who was a producer on that show) to focus more on the next Trek movie. Abrams’ contract with WB has been something of a disaster; most of his projects have either been cancelled (Westworld), killed while in development (animated Batman show) or are in limbo (black Superman project, which could also be dead at this point). Add the generally negative response to the Star Wars sequels and his stock has probably taken a significant hit. Trek is one of the few properties he still has some involvement with and at this point probably the highest profile IP he has access to.

he comes back to direct for 2025 or 26? and we get the movie we should have got had he not defected to Star Wars

Well for a series that was depressing, showcased violence just for the sake of coolness, and had hardly any characters to admire, Westworld I think arguably had a successful run of four freaking seasons on HBO. That’s pretty decent for an expensive show like that.

For my part, I.5 seasons was all I could handle. Too grim and didn’t like most of the characters. That’s the same issue I had with Raised by Wolves…never even bothered with S2 of that grim cluster-F.

We need more Foundation, Severance and For All Mankind types of sf shows on the streaming channels.

I really didn’t follow Westworld all that much but from what I saw it seemed to follow the same trajectory as Lost. Started strong, then just lost it’s way relying more on implausible twists than good storytelling, staying around way longer that it probably should have. I guess that’s just how Abrams shows roll.

Good point!

No, he won’t. JJ isn’t sitting in his kitchen, wondering what he’ll be doing Monday morning.

Maybe he will hang out with Orci at his trailer park?

I’m hoping now that James Gunn is the new DC Studio lead JJ Abrams is out as the guy making the next Superman movie.

There’s rumours Steven Spielberg might direct the next Superman film (with Cavil)

OMG I don’t think I could believe that even if I did see it lol

God I hope not. I know Paramount trotted him out for that Investor Day, but he burned them as badly as can be when he took those Star Wars jobs while under contract with Viacom. Bad Robot has a few legacy projects like Trek and Cloverfield, but is no longer part of Mission: Impossible. I like to think there’s some karma to his losing expensive projects at WBD, but they have plenty of others in the pipeline with them. He’s their curse now.

the recent m:i movie, ‘fallout’ was produced by bad robot with j j as a producer

And “Dead Reckoning Parts 1 and 2” are not.

You’re missing the broader point, These days, any movie making money for Paramount likely has Tom Cruise’ name on it.

One: what does that have to do with this discussion which is about bringing JJ back into the fold?
And two, that’s not even true: Paramount has done well by Scream, The Lost City, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Smile. It will end the year as the #2 or #3 studio with close to a 20% market share. Yes, that’s mostly on the back of Top Gun and Tom Cruise, but they had a very successful slate this year.

Also, Tom Cruise movies are not cheap. Maverick overperformed, but the Mission: Impossible films are more for prestige than profit – once the profit participation deals are over there’s not much left for the studio. That’s probably why Bad Robot is out – they have a winning formula and a settled director, they probably don’t feel any need to pay yet another production company when they’ll still gross north of $700 million.

It is strange that most of the comments are negative towards the Kelvin movies. Personally I like the movies, but the strange part of the negative comments is that it seems that the only thing that you all like are the OLD Star Trek shows and only want the same characters in new episodes. I do agree that opportunities were wasted with the Kelvin films but as a whole, I do not think that they were that bad. I do not like the new Trek that is on TV right now and will not waste money on streaming, so I do hope that there will be a fourth Kelvin film. The main problem we have now in my opinion are the writers who are lacking in imagination. Just look at the number of remakes, reboots, sequels and prequels being made by the film industry now. Even the Kelvin universe could be good with a good script. Bad scripts equal bad movies no matter which Strek Trek universe you prefer.

I don’t know if you saw my list rating the films and shows by audience scores, but yeah the Kelvin movies ARE popular, at least with a lot of the newer fans which I’m guessing is driving it. It’s the old fans as shown time and again that really down on them (and not all of us obviously). But same time that divide is probably a big reason they been having trouble with this series since STID.

I also have a lot of issues with these movies, but its NOT for being action popcorn movies. I have no issues with that And the movies aren’t made for me, nor do they have to be. I’m not one of these people trying to just wipe them out from canon. And there was already more than enough old Trek to keep me occupied. And now there is enough new TV Trek, most of I really like if not love.

I think the Kelvin films are fine overall, but the issues I have with them is what many people keep saying, they just become too formulaic at this point. I have no issues if they want these movies to feel like a Marvel movie but you can still do OTHER things with them too. What does it say when Guardians of the Galaxy, a Marvel movie as Marvel gets these days do more exploring in their movies than the Star Trek movies??? I just don’t get it? And GOTG actually have villains with different motives. Yeah they want to destroy the Galaxy (I mean it’s kind of the premise of those films ;)) but at least it’s not the same motive like seeking revenge over and over again!!

And I think they lost a lot of the base after STID. That’s probably unfair but that’s the difference between a movie series and a TV series. You have a bad episode, you can shake it off and look to next week. Movies have to grab people out of the gate. And when you are making only a handful of them (and people pay a lot to see them) then they are going to be harder on them critically. If the Kelvin movies were a TV show and they simply had the time to diversify their stories more, they would be a lot more popular IMO. I don’t think it’s the premise or being in another universe that keeps the hardcore fans divided on them, I just think the stories presented hasn’t been very compelling or original. That’s the main issue IMO. And yes, ‘Khan’ lol. Most ridiculous thing Abrams has ever done IMO and that’s counting bringing the Emperor back in TROS.

I truly desperation was the motivating factor for STID. I do not think he(Abrams) had any kind of an original script for STID and literally used the plot line from the original which was a HUGE mistake. Also his interests had shifted to Star Wars by that time. As an older fan(73) I am glad that Star Trek is garnering new fans and I do realize that these newer fans may have different likes from me. It just seems to me that the Kelvin movies have been overly criticized. As you know you can not please everyone all of the time but as I stated in my previous post, I for one would love to see another Kelvin movie be made

Ok, since you brought up MCU movies.  In my opinion one of the reasons that All of the movies in the original set were interactive. Miss one and you might miss a major plot piece ( and do not dare  leave bimate cliffhangerefore the final credit).  Talk about the ultimate cliffhanger

Sorry. My computer is definitely possessed by evil spirits today. What I was trying to say was that MCU found the ultimate cliffhanger plot. The movies were interconnected so that if you missed one, you might miss needed info for the movie release. I do not think that all of the movies singularly would have been successful I also do not think that Marvel is going to enjoy the success this year and in this phase as the first. So far the movies that have been released since Endgame have not been as good as the first. Only time will tell. I do have a question for all posting. How do you rid a computer of evil spirits?

Yeah, I mean if you look an the info Tiger II provided from IMDB, one might use that imperfect info to say that Into Darkness is liked by fans more than both Lower Decks and Enterprise.

OMG man, can you not turn everything around to what you don’t like personally. I notice you didn’t include Discovery or Picard in there. Sigh

Dude, I am just having fun with those numbers, which we both know are half-BS at best. Jeez, you had your coffee today! :-)

OK, you’re right. I just like to have a real discussion I guess. This isn’t it. But yeah, I can take it down a notch. Sorry.

No worries. I DO NOT BELIEVE THOSE numbers — just having fun. :-)

And yet you posted them to in the past, right? So what am I missing man??? No offense but these are reasons why I don’t want to deal with certain people online. You want to argue numbers by the very same site you have used in the past yourself. Again, hypocrisy dude, but fine. Just move on.

Well, now I see how the comment count got to 70 so fast for such a slight article.

I’ve been trying to ease up on my pouncing a bit more, I know it’s very tempting. I enjoy talking Trek with people and have plenty of thoughts, some of them pedantic, but sometimes it’s worth taking a breather and asking myself if it’s worth the stress of the moment if it could get heated. After an hour or two a lot of the time I don’t bother.

That said, if MC1701 tries to gaslight anyone here again… ;)

I love this site obviously. Yes it’s a bit more on the ‘negative’ side at times but as long as people are just being honest and civil about their opinions It’s fine. But sometimes I do wish there was at least an ignore button. Because I get tired of getting into these silly tedious arguments. And I know I push people’s buttons too, which is WHY I wish there was an ignore button. To stop myself from egging on these things, not just the other way around. I certainly admit my fault in it too.

I think I just need to take a break from this site and others for awhile. This is suppose to be fun. I shouldn’t feel more stressed on a website discussing shows and movies than my actual job lol. So I might try and pull myself away for awhile.

And sorry I took this board so off topic.

Hey Ian,

I want to apologize to you man. I got off on the wrong foot and I swear I don’t come to sites to rub people the wrong way! But I admit I just get carried away sometimes, especially when it’s discussing things I hate like these movies lol.

I really really hate them. But I’m mostly just joking around. And to be honest because so many people here hate them too it’s pretty easy to just be honest when it’s so many like minded people around. But I don’t want people to feel bad either. I know they have fans and people enjoy them including people I know.

I don’t come here often, just if an article catch my eye I might post. I read these boards for years but just started doing a bit less lurking. And I do post more straight and positive stuff. I wrote a small review on the last episode on Prodigy yesterday and it was a straight review.

I have my issues with NuTrek. I think both Abrams and Kurtzman are totally wrong to run it. But I have always given credit to everything I think they are doing right. I don’t like JJ verse at all but I have always said Beyond was a big improvement and I like that one. I think I said it here somewhere.

But I know I can get too much at times and want to apologize. I’m just goofing around. The other boards I’m on had to tolerate me for years. 😂

Like I said I’m not here a lot. But please bro, if you or others think I’m going too far just tell me to knock it off and cut out my shit. Or to just stop being a dumbass!🙄

I’ll take it down a notch for sure! 👍

Oh no no, I wasn’t singling out you!!! I’ve only ever had real spats that truly angered me with M1701 (I mistyped slightly). It was childish of me to name check them out of the blue, but the way they come out of the gate blanket accusing posters of racism and toxicity without a complete lack of self-awareness is infuriating and it stuck with me. That’s why I agree with Tiger an ignore feature might be handy, otherwise I have trouble stopping myself from needling.

But anyway, that’s not you, please don’t change on my account!

Ok this is hilarious! 😂😂😂😂

I was trying to figure out what I said that put me in the dog house? I knew it wasn’t my name completely but I thought you just misspelled the first two letters. I don’t know who that poster is and never seen their handle before so I just assumed it was me you were talking about since I was on this thread trashing the movies. But Ok feel better much better now. 😎


Lol looks like I pressed send too soon. 😁

Ironically though since you mentioned it an ignore feature is a big reason I don’t post here more regularly. That and not having an edit feature although they do sort of have that one now and why I been posting more. But I won’t lie I think it’s needed on every board these days, especially boards not regulated much.

I’ll give you a personal story on another board I been on for years. It’s on a board similar to this one every one knows. But there was this guy, an older fan probably in his 60s and just toxic; a bully to people there. He was one of those people trying to control everyone s thoughts and actually censor other people.

Funny thing is I didn’t mind him too much and liked talking to him. Very smart and informative guy so when when you could have normal conversations with him he was fine.

The problem was he was too stuck in ways and constantly tried to censor others when they talked about shows and movies he liked like Discovery which I didn’t hate but generally think it suck. Every time I brought it up, on a Star Trek board no less, this guy show up chastising me for saying bad things about the show lol. It didn’t happen all the time but a lot. He would low key insult people, accuse them of having other sock puppets even though this guy had like 3 or 4 of his own lol.

Because every time I say something he didn’t like, suddenly another two would show up to back him up. It was actually comical because he thought people were that stupid.

I finally had enough and put him on ignore because he was always mad when I called Georgiou Adolf. 😂😂

It’s my nickname for her.

But this guy and his creepy sock puppets was trying so hard to censor me he created NEW sock puppets just to try to talk to me when he realized I put the others on ignore lol. I put them on all ignore. And he KNEW that and he was still responding to my posts trying to a conversation with me. I couldn’t see them but I knew who it was because it was only him and his brigade of sock puppets I had blocked. This went on for over a YEAR bro. 😂🙄

It was so bad I finally just wrote the administrator and said I just had enough and said this guy is too toxic and I was leaving the board because I felt I was being stalked even though he was on ignore. They said they would talk to him and I guess it worked because I was getting no more replies after that.

And then a month later Disqus created a new feature where if you block someone they no longer see your post at all AND can’t reply to you. So it was over after that for good.

But sadly you have to deal with cranks like this a lot, especially in geek boards. I’m not perfect myself but when I know I irritated someone I know they want to block me I feel bad. I don’t want to put someone off.

And that was the other thing I told him if I was so offensive to him then just block me but he never did because he’s the type that wants to control others. I feel sorry for people who has to be around people like this in real life.

But if he was less of a nut I would’ve happily kept talking to him. But people like that are too set in their ways unfortunately. A LOT of people hated the guy. 😂😂

And why I only type on boards regularly with an ignore feature.

The amount of effort it takes to create an army of other handles to agree with oneself is staggering. I wonder if he gave them all different elaborate backstories or if they were just like Mr. Burns in a mustache as Mr. Snrub.

I remember one poster back in the AOL days who would never stop beating the drum that William Shatner needed to come back and Trek was dying because of the mistake made in killing Kirk off. He’d always find a way to rain on people’s parades and spin something like say, excellent ratings for a Voyager sweeps event as still pathetic compared to whatever was on a big network like CBS or ABC at the same time. I still remember his handle, it was that incessant.

It’s just sad because I understand not being able to totally geek out with the Not We over things like Star Trek and Doctor Who, so these communities are a great release. It does feel personal when it gets heated because it threatens the cosiness of an outlet that’s rooted in fun and shared semi-niche interests.

Trekmovie has pretty diligent moderators all in all, I know it’s a thankless job at times, but it’s important. The spam filters need work though. At the end of the day it’s all about an imaginative franchise we adore in our own ways and want to succeed.

And yes, Georgiou as Space Hitler has always been an apt comparison. Michelle Yeoh obviously adored getting to be vicious and vampy, but they didn’t give her anything to really do to justify a redemption arc until her last two episodes. The woman is probably getting an Oscar nomination or even a win next year and they wasted her for 3 years with bad dialogue and turgid character work. I know production was hairy, but they should have done better to set up her evolution over the course of her last year on the show.

I still say the above from a place of love!

Making multiple sock puppets just to agree with yourself is sooo weird man. It’s just a sign you need to find other hobbies in your life if you are this invested into what is supposed to just be a fun exchange of ideas with other fans.

But it just shows how insecure some people are or just want to dominate the conversation so they feel their opinion is being validated… with themselves! 🤣🤣

Fortunately it’s not too many people like this but enough to throw a board off if they jump into everything.

And your AOL story reminded me of a guy on Reddit I had to put on ignore. This guy was obsessed with hating JJ verse so you would think we would be best friends. 😁

But this guy was just toxic. Would always butt in conversations to tell people the movies weren’t canon, that ‘real’ Star Trek ended after Enterprise and on and on. We agreed about everything about the movies themselves but the guy constantly got on my case because I said they were canon. You can still hate them but they are part of the universe. That was simply a fact but the guy would berate me over it. This went on for a few weeks and I put him on ignore. But he finally got banned from the sub altogether a month later.

Lol that reminds me of the other guy, he also had the same hang up but it was with Lower Decks. Before the show started he was ranting about the show and telling people it wasn’t canon because Roddenberry would be against it. Other people had to remind him that guy didn’t run Star Trek today and died somewhere back in the 90s. But he kept wailing on this that even nods basically told the old man to STFU and to stop posting about it and yell at the sky instead (they didn’t actually say that but you get it).

And that was another reason I blocked him. That and being a hypocrite. Because he and his creepy sock puppets got on people case when they complained about Discovery or Picard but this nut was going non stop over his issues with LDS everywhere. 🙄

And yeah I think Discovery is an awful show but I never said it wasn’t canon either. But that guy was once again trying to control people thoughts telling us that LDS isn’t canon because he didn’t like it.

Now we all talk about LDS there and it’s a lot of fun and a great atmosphere. So much fun now! You don’t see any arguing anymore. I guess everyone just blocked him lol.

I love talking Star Trek man and I can certainly be abrasive at times with my opinions but if you’re turning into an unhinged nut over some movies or a cartoon it’s time to take a step back and reevaluate your life.

Oh sorry forgot to mention your other point. Yeah I hate Adolf with a passion man! 🤬

Just an awful character all around and nothing but a one dimensional character. And like you I like Yeoh. She’s a good actress, but Georgiou is played like a cartoon character. Doesn’t come off realistic at all. Her role in Everything Everywhere All at Once is just fantastic. I seen it three times.

And they wanted to give her her own show on top of it. 🙄 If the Section 31 show happens before Lower Decks makes it to season 7 I’ll give it a chance.

But they know a lot of fans hate the idea and why we haven’t gotten it. I do wonder if we’ll ever see that or another Kelvin movie again? Hopefully both has disappeared forever. 😜

I’d be shocked if they could even get Yeoh to commit to a show again after this year, but you never know – she’s mixing movies and TV still.

They never wrote to Yeoh’s strengths at all. Being a campy and conniving leonine figure in leather… fine, there was some fun to be had there, but by the time we got to season 3 no one was using her right. She’s just being snarky and cruel without it being funny or truly meaningful as it was for say, Seven in her meanest days. She liked Michael for superficial reasons that didn’t quite convince even in her last episodes, and never showed real signs of thawing out or seeing things from a Prime Universe perspective. But she also wasn’t allowed to go full villain again, so she just was there to be a sniping cartoon, you are right. I think a huge huge problem is that no one was writing dialogue for her that sounded natural. “Oh look! It’s the savior of the mess hall,” is such a sarcastic American thing to say. Making an actor who speaks with Chinese intonations recite lines like that, not to mention all the technobabble is a sign of a writing team that didn’t know how to use her. The woman can convey heartbreak, despair, jealousy, hatred, compassion, love and annoyance with nothing but a glance but they just had her mouthing off all the time and doing things like grabbing Linus for some weird side adventure that never got explained.

Section 31… so much would ride on the premise. When is it set, what rules does it try to bend, what is the tone, who are her co-stars? It’s a dubious idea. You have a much-loved actress playing a divisive character even after her hasty “redemption,” in an organization which every successive creative team seems to adore but makes a lot of Trekkies uncomfortable and has been used rather unimaginatively post-DS9.

Posting twice because of some dumb filter that made my editing a typo turn this into a suspicious spam post needing a moderator to approve.

The amount of effort it takes to create an army of other handles to agree with oneself is staggering. I wonder if he gave them all different elaborate backstories or if they were just like Mr. Burns in a mustache as Mr. Snrub.

I remember one poster back in the AOL days who would never stop beating the drum that William Shatner needed to come back and Trek was dying because of the mistake made in killing Kirk off. He’d always find a way to rain on people’s parades and spin something like say, excellent ratings for a Voyager sweeps event as still pathetic compared to whatever was on a big network like CBS or ABC at the same time. I still remember his handle, it was that incessant.

It’s just sad because I understand not being able to totally geek out with the Not We over things like Star Trek and Doctor Who, so these communities are a great release. It does feel personal when it gets heated because it threatens the cosiness of an outlet that’s rooted in fun and shared semi-niche interests.

Trekmovie has pretty diligent moderators all in all, I know it’s a thankless job at times, but it’s important. At the end of the day it’s all about an imaginative franchise we adore in our own ways and want to succeed.

And yes, Georgiou as Space Hitler has always been an apt comparison. Michelle Yeoh obviously adored getting to be vicious and vampy, but they didn’t give her anything to really do to justify a redemption arc until her last two episodes. The woman is probably getting an Oscar nomination or even a win next year and they wasted her for 3 years with bad dialogue and turgid character work. I know production was hairy, but they should have done better to set up her evolution over the course of her last year on the show.

I still say the above from a place of love!

Every time I read an article on the Kelvin Star Trek delays, it includes another actor who is anxious to make another Trek movie, the latest being Zoe Saldana. So…the fans want it, all the actors want it…so I say to all the executives of Paramount…let’s get together and make it happen!!!

It’s not now clear the studio has been struggling with another Trek feature, it’s been painfully obvious for four or five years now.

JJ will be working behind the scenes to close his deal to direct! it’s the ONLY way this project will happen now……

Unless they are moving in a different direction, which could be the case. If that’s happening, it may be 6 months to a year before we hear about the new direction.

Not happening. If that was the case they would’ve just announced him instead of shutting down the movie completely. Anthony Pascale said it in his podcast after this came up but according to him the issue is they can’t get the financing for the movie. The irony is if Abrams wanted the film to happen that much he can help put up some of the money himself instead of asking other investors, right?

Bad Robot IS a production company.

But he knows there are no guarantees the next will be a hit. And that’s the problem, because it may not be. It’s not stalled due to a lack of a director, it’s due to a lack of $$$$.

“Never put your own money in the project.” is the rule. Abrams will never ever put his own money in. That’s only for artists!

Fans are more likely to Kickstart a feature. But could they Kickstart $100/120 million, or half? That would be an interesting test. I would even guess that might have happened before all the new shows came on. At least those are guaranteed for now.

Bad Robot makes movies. Legendary, AliBaba, etc, are the investors. JJ may invest in some art house ego project, which is his right, but he’d never put a dime of his own money into some CFI f**kfest where there’s maybe the likelihood it’ll break even.

Abrams inflated the budget for Into Darkness to $190 million, effectively wiping out the additional box office revenue it gained. He’s not been one to make a cheap film and would not change that if asked back to Star Trek as a director. Super8 comes the closest to being economical, and even that was $50 million with a cast of TV stars and unknowns.

It gained more international thanks to having ‘sherlock’ in the cast

Into Darkness was expensive because it was shot in LA. Beyond wasn’t and was made for less and still lost money. Beyond also didn’t use expensive 35mm film or ILM. It was shot digitally. But because of the rush to meet the anniversary and longer shooting days it still only came in 5 million under Into Darkness budget. I’m sure spending money at the end to convert it into the Barco format was also a waste of money. I mean it was an anniversary year and there was no excitement and no word of mouth. The movie had no legs. It did modest business but not enough to break even, not Nemesis levels of suck but at a much larger budget.

Beyond wasn’t given enough time to get the script right, but the years in between films is where they lost their audience. In between Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness. Too long of a gap thanks to JJ. Even worse now that there hasn’t been a new Star Trek film in 6 years. And it won’t be long until that becomes 10 years. Its not like TOS nobody is going to want these actors back in ten years for an encore.

This film isn’t being made because JJ continues to insist the only way it can be done right is with a 200MM budget. Paramount wants one done for half that. When a production house steps up with a decent story and budget, one will get done. Until then, no. JJ isn’t sitting over at Astroburger working on his breakfast burrito, waiting for a call, That, you can take to the bank.

Pinetrek is dead. Pinetrek remains dead. And we have killed it. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become some kind of newer trek simply to be worthy of it?

Landru, is that you? ;-)

I was wondering if it was Orci. But it went on too long.

Let’s hope so bro… let’s hope so! 👍

Kill it! Kill it with fire! 😂

Jeez, I wish they would give the movies a rest. As Kirk would say: ”Let them Die!” We have 3 superb shows currently on air(Pro, LDS and SNW) which should be enough for most die hard Star Trek fans. And Prodigy in particular is the most cinematic and coherent show right now, hands down. Seriously, that show is actually better than most of the films. It’s exquisite, lets talk of 2 hour movie of that, I think we would be in business.

I really love the theatrical experience though. It’s fleeting, but years later I still cling to how amazing it felt to see Praxis explode or a Borg cube on a huge screen in a darkened theater with a captive audience. And the spectacle of the Kelvin films is undeniable. I can watch a movie on my tv any time. But even with a souped up sound system and a bigger screen and not having to buy a ticket or overpriced concessions or risk a rude audience member or catching an airborne illness… sitting at home to watch TV doesn’t make for vivid memories.

There are too many distractions at home, I work remotely now and spend too much time here as it is. Going to a movie is an event, so a Star Trek movie becomes an event. Plopping down on my couch and pressing a couple buttons is not an event. It’s another Tuesday.

Yes theres nothing quite like the thrill of going to see the latest Star Trek movie at the cinema..

“one to Star Trek please” (no need to say the subtitle)

Conjures up images and memories of the maroon uniforms, TJHooker era curly hair Shatner, the movie ships Enterprise Reliant Excelsior Klingon BoP/Cruisers, blue mushroom space station, the rousing Horner/Goldsmith scores, Bob Peak posters, rainbow warp trails, blu beam transporters, chunky hand phasers, big coats, sexy vulcan women.. Basically everything to do with the 80s/early 90s TOS movies!

As far as I can tell, “The Voyage Home” was the third movie I ever saw in theaters (the first two being The Transformers and Labyrinth). My only memory of it was going with my mom and family friends when I was just 4, and being confused when the Enterprise blew up. But heck yeah, I lived for those movies!

The original TOS movies were really fantastic, got me through the 80’s early 90’s.. Didn’t know I II & III were made until release, more news after these in the UK

What an irony. Pine telling Paramount to stop looking for Marvel like profits. It was Pine and Hemsworth who refused to take pay cuts when Paramount couldn’t get enough financing some 3 directors ago. Tell Sir Chris to move more of his salary to the backend if he wants the P to cut the budget. Also when the Trek franchise was run by TV people they had no problems with staying inside their budgets. So if everyone (including its stars) would take a more reasoned approach about the production in total then I am sure things would move along.

They really should be pushing for points and lower upfront salaries, I agree. I know backend deals can make the studio wince when they go in the actors’ favor (see: Batman/Jack Nicholson, Marvel/Robert Downey Jr., Kingdom of the Crystal Skull/Harrison Ford, Top Gun: Maverick/Tom Cruise), but it’s an incentive for the stars to give their all to production and promotion, and the studio still comes out looking like an all-out winner.

So why not hand it over to the tv people who produce the streaming shows. Drastically lower the budget. You could set it in the prime timeline use tv sets. And you could lose the expensive Kelvin cast. Maybe at some point Strange New Worlds will do that anyway have Kirk in the center seat, and bring in Scotty, Chekov and Sulu and Bones. Perfect setup for a continuation of TOS in some form.

ST movies in trouble again?
The ‘khan’ trilogy was the last time the series was sustained in its success

First, make a ST movie on standing sets from the current tv shows, then lock in to a feature budget of no more than $75M, use affordable actors, hire Frankes to direct, and limit the FX. This situation is the fault of Paramount and JJ and his group.

actually listening to the fans and bringing back a legacy villain like khan was the reason the kelvin line was going to be derailed

Were the fans screaming en masse for a new Khan? It could have been an echo chamber, but in the run-up I only remember a lot of, “Hope they do something new,” “Oh man, he’d better not be playing Khan…” “They wouldn’t be lying about him being Khan, because that would be dumb,” and finally “Oh hell, he IS Khan!”

Yep that’s exactly how I remember it

then j j and co talk themselves into doing it as insurance for a successful sequel to the 2009 film.
but it was a mistake

If they hadn’t lied about it, it would have gone over better, we could have begrudgingly acclimated, maybe. It wasn’t even a case of being coy and saying, “You wait and see, I won’t tell,” they resorted to flat out lying and saying Cumberbatch wasn’t playing Khan. And so that helped with anxieties like not worrying about whitewashing and the show retreading old ground. But when the film was released and the reveal happened, those of us who had been following the news didn’t go, “Oh you little stinkers, you got me!” We were irritated.

At the end of the day I don’t think it stands as a creative decision. Khan’s inclusion is narratively convoluted, the whitewashing excuse still manages to be condescending to the Sikh community, comparisons to TWOK are not in its favor as the emotional connection between Khan, Kirk and Spock and their various desires for payback are less vivid and the story parallels are so simplified and superficial. But it was a really stupid thing to try to keep secret the way they did.

The cast is great. I have no idea why the Kelvin Timeline failed and fizzled out. I enjoy them and they were a novel idea. But fans hated them because they weren’t in the prime timeline. Feel somehow they were erasing or replacing TOS. Despite Bob Orci quite succinctly explaining it.

They gave birth in a way to the Discoverse and have had a bigger impact than people will admit. All the new shows take cues from them in visual style, and action. Even if those shows are in the canon Star Trek universe. JJ and Alex Kurtzman his successor have made the new Trek vogue.

JJ and Alex? The reboot idea of Spock coming back in time was mine. There. I said it. Robbins, you wanna do it right? Give me a call.

I think you could rejuvenate the movies again. From what you have shared I think your Trek 3 would have been a good direction. Could the basis of that still be viable?

because it became formula- ‘man man with a grudge and galactic WMD’ and squandered chance to do something new with the films when they did ‘..darkness’

The fans only really number in the tens of millions. Plenty to sustain TV shows (especially now that they are behind a paywall) and the bulk of the average grosses off the movies in the late 80s and 90s, but to really achieve big box office the movies need to appeal beyond the fanbase. The Kelvin films did that, despite the (justified for Into Darkness, at least) grumbling from longtime fans. The failure of Beyond came from a script which was well-liked but still had no new hook for that wider audience. The villain wants revenge and to destroy Earth, and the Enterprise is decimated by a superior foe. All very familiar elements from anyone who watched the last 3 films. Add in a woeful marketing campaign in a competitive summer and little own goals like the production irritating George Takei, and it just didn’t come together. I think that’s more on the movie and Paramount than the appeal of the Kelvin movies as a whole though.

People saying they could just transpose a Paramount+ cast to the big screen are dismissing the advantages that come from having a cast that’s not tied to a TV show and only exists in movies. It’s less continuity baggage for casual audiences to remember and it makes the movies more of an event.

this is all speculation but it seemed to me Paramount made the mistake of listening to the vocal fan base annihilating STID for daring to ‘redo’ Wrath of Khan when really the film was well recieved by audiences and made near 500m ww (and TWOK similarities were quite interesting in a Fringe like alt universe take on it), then as a result of that (presumably) they didnt do Bob Orcis ST3 with Shatner as was ‘too star trek’ (for the anniversary!) and too looking to the past like ID? (but sounded to be a more logical continuation/conclusion? of the Kelvin saga dealing with altering the timeline). instead they favoured going more ‘Fast & Marvel’ with Beyond (but resulted in the dullest ‘trekkie’ movie since Insurrection)

What happened to Carol Marcus. I thought there was going to be war with the Klingons.

Bringing back Alice Eve could only have helped, as would the Klingons. The new timeline under threat from a new villain, Shatner returning as Kirk. ST3 could’ve been a great movie/event for the anniversary (like VI was for 25th) and really tied back into the 2009 film. Instead Beyond was like the Kelvins version of Insurrection. a boring extended episode :(

She was in our script for 3.

Maybe, but we really only know bits and pieces of what went down with Orci’s film. I wouldn’t overestimate the pull of vocal Trekkies with these films now that we are talking about a franchise that grosses over $300 million now. We OG fans are only worth what? $60 million at the box office on our own? And it’s not like most of us would refuse to go see a new Star Trek film even with crossed arms the whole time.

At the end of the day Orci was turning into a bit of a PR nightmare and was already an untested director being given the keys to a tentpole film. It had to have been a pretty big reason to cut Paramount’s losses on their investment thus far and start again from scratch. I’m amazed STB is as good as it is based on how fast it was written.

Fair assessment. Much missing, but given limited info, very fair.

If Robbins called you today would your Trek 3 script be workable for Trek 4?

I actually liked that it wasn’t in Prime. otherwise all the ridiculousness of Kirk and Uhura and everyone going to the academy at the same time and everything would have totally gone against TOS. My issues started with STID.

it’s time for tng. let this reboot end already so we can move on.

Hell yeah. And by TNG, no reboot, alternate reality crap. A proper TNG continuation. My fav new Treks are those set in this era, especially Lower Decks (SNW is great, but 23rd century/Kirk/Spock again?? Urgh). Lets keep moving forward and explore the 25th century!

That is what i’m hoping Picard sets up a new Enterprise and crew and that gets spun off of Picard. A show with the Enterprise F. Or even a show on the Titan, not Riker’s but the new one from the trailer.

It’s dead, Jim.


Taking a pause is a great idea. How do you run a movie franchise simultaneously with television series?

The MCU way is to put the epics and big teamups on screen and use Disney+ for experiments in form and to introduce new characters.

The Star Wars way is to keep remaking A New Hope and filling out the corners of the strangely tiny universe with prequels; coming in 2024 “Watto: The Series”

The DCU way is…well, there is no way, just chaos and occasionally something watchable, and/or a remake of Taxi Driver.

Trek feels like a big enough universe to sustain TV and movies. The problem is, in my opinion, Strange New Worlds.

Now, I love SNW and argue that it is the correct answer to the question “what do TOS fans want?” It is brilliant!!!

But by being set on NCC-1701 with its own Kirk, Spock, Pike, Uhura, SNW has trod on the Kelvinverse, which was created in order to capitalize on nostalgia without being too pinned into canon. They exist at roughly the same time, and as much as I like the Kelvinverse, I think SNW is even better.

I don’t see why the public would cough up say $400M worth of tix for a single adventure set on the Enterprise in 2023. We’d just be watching more SNW at home.

What about a TNG Kelvinverse? Well…I guess. But that feels like more of the same problem, with Lower Decks and Picard in the same era.

A far future? Disco is there. And the S31 series, according to rumour.

I think a movie is an ideal vehicle to re-relaunch Trek ….in about 15 years.

Unless they make a Luke Skywalker show on Disney plus i’m not interested in Disney Star Wars, and i mean Mark Hamill as Luke. He looks great for 71. I think Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau would do the character justice. And i’m one of those who actually sort of like Last Jedi.