Check Out Worf’s New Look For ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 3

Following up on the three images released earlier this week, there is a brand-new image from Star Trek: Picard season 3. This one gives us a closer look at Worf.

Worf’s new look

The latest image comes courtesy of TVLine. It features Star Trek: The Next Generation (and Deep Space Nine) star Michael Dorn as Worf on the transporter pad (presumably on the USS Titan-A), being greeted by Admiral Picard (Sir Patrick Stewart).

This is the best look yet at Worf’s look in the 25th century, where he reunites with Admiral Picard for what might be the first time in years. Notably, he is wearing a Starfleet badge, indicating he is still an officer even though he isn’t in a Starfleet uniform. His baldric still shows he is a member of the House of Martok, which he joined at the beginning of the fourth season of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. He has a new Klingon sword, which showrunner Terry Matalas revealed is called a “Kur’leth,” designed by Star Trek vet Dan Curry, who also designed the iconic Klingon Bat’leth.

Matalas has also revealed that Worf’s storyline has a connection to the fallout of the Dominion War, which is a key part of the season’s arc, possibly connecting Worf to the main villain Vadic (played by Amanda Plummer).

The shot above gives us a better look at the outfit Worf is wearing in the NYCC trailer released in October, different from the 25th-century Starfleet uniform he wears in the poster and teaser trailer released at San Diego Comic-Con in July.

Worf in SDCC teaser

Updating the classics

In addition to his outfit, Worf’s makeup has changed a bit since his time on TNG, DS9, and the feature films, but not a lot, and certainly not to the extent seen for Klingons on Star Trek: Discovery. In a Star Trek Day interview with, makeup designer James MacKinnon (who worked on DS9 and the TNG feature films) talked about updating Worf’s look for Picard

As a vet of DS9, was it a sort of homecoming [working] with Michael [Dorn] for season 3?

Yeah. You have already seen Worf on Picard. Just to be able to recreate and elevate Michael Westmore’s makeup from DS9 to a current-day version with Michael Dorn was a true, true pleasure.

Did you get the time in the chair for him down compared to the Westmore days?

Oh yeah. We got the time in the chair down. Obviously, the test always takes longer, and then each day you do it does go faster. Foam latex back in the day is opaque, so you have to paint the depth. Now, with silicone, it’s see-through so you got to splatter the depth. And then there is a lot more airbrushing, it was like acrylic paints back in the day.

Regarding the look of the transporter room, production designer Dave Blass weighed in on Twitter, noting there is no need to change the classic TNG era design because “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

Michael Dorn turns 70

By the way, today is Michael Dorn’s birthday. If you can believe it, he is now 70 years old. You can keep up on Star Trek birthdays and anniversaries by following us on our social media channels.

Coming on Feb 16

The third and final season premieres on Thursday, Feb. 16, 2023 exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., with new episodes of the 10-episode-long season available to stream weekly on Thursdays.

Picard streams exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S.A. It is distributed concurrently by Paramount Global Content Distribution on Amazon Prime Video in more than 200 countries and territories, and in Canada it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.

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Looking pretty damn good for 70, Dorny!

Worf.. we’re home

[Close Encounters theme plays]

I’m just super happy that Worf looks like Worf. People would’ve went nuts if he looked like a Discovery Klingon lol. And he looks VERY good!

I was under the impression that Michael Dorn was never gonna accept if the makeup looked liked Discovery Klingons. He seemed to imply that he wasn’t very fond of that design style.

He was more specific about the level of prosthetics and time in the chair.

It’s no way Dorn would’ve put on that Orc Discovery mess. He knows fans want to see Worf! Not some weirdo version of him.

I think the others already said it, he probably wasn’t a fan both how cumbersome the make up itself was and that it would take away too much from looking like the character we known for 30+ years. It would be like if Spock showed up again suddenly looking like a Ferengi in the first Kelvin movie. I’m pretty sure Nimoy would’ve put his foot down if they gave his character such a drastic makeover after 40 years; even if Vulcans suddenly looked like Ferengis in the Kelvin universe. I think Dorn would’ve too for the same reasons and why it probably wasn’t even tempted.

And fans would reject both wholeheartedly.

I asked him about it at a convention a few years ago, and I agree he didn’t like it. He said something to the effect of creatives sometimes forget that just because you CAN change something doesn’t mean you SHOULD change it.

Yeah that was basically the problem of nearly everything about Discovery in a nutshell. ;D

I can honesty say I wouldn’t have tuned in.

I think a lot of people who hated those Klingons probably wouldn’t. I would’ve watched for sure, but with my arms crossed the whole time lol.

To me, those Klingons will probably be one of the worst decisions they made in Star Trek and that is saying a lot. But I really really didn’t like them.

I think a lot of people would SAY they wouldn’t tune in… but they would.

LOL, also true!

There are a lot of times I’ll admit that is the case for me. But turning Worf into a DSC Klingon, no that would have been a deal breaker for sure.

I just honestly didn’t understand the reasoning. Why change something that doesn’t need to be changed? It does nothing to bring in new audiences and it pisses old audiences off. Other than ego and saying, I’m pissing on this tree and it’s mine now, what is the point?

Bro if Worf showed up looking like some Discovery/NuTrek freak of nature reject, I would’ve called out to all fans out there to find Kurtzman’s car and burn it!

It’s bad enough to know he brought us such gems like white Khan, three year fratboy cadet turned starship Captain, MU Georgiou, incest Romulans, supernovas that can destroy the whole galaxy, more rando (and highly emotional) Spock siblings, warping from the Klingon neutral zone to Earth in 10 minutes, making Silly Tilly the XO and RoboCard. The line must be drawn somewhere with this hack.

(Relax people, he’s super rich…he could’ve bought another one. And creating white Khan helped get him that car… just remember that.)

Without getting into a holy debate here, I’ve told you about my issues with white Khan before. I barely recovered from that. I wouldn’t recover from Orc Worf too.

I know!

That’s what happens when you turn the franchise over to clueless hacks.

I remember back in the day when the first JJ verse movie was being made and I used to get into it with some TOS fanatics on another board. The type who only saw TOS as a real Star Trek and thought TNG and the others shouldn’t even bare the same name. Weird psycho nerds like that.

I bring it up because they were so in love with Abrams at the time. They knew he was going to make TOS great again and really understood that show. They kept telling the rest of us TNG era was done and now that ‘real’ Star Trek was coming back everything else will just be a footnote no one will think about anymore.

Then the photos of the bridge was released and man some of these people lost it! 😂

They were expecting the bridge from TOS and that was already the beginning of the end. They complained bitterly how none of it looked right, Pine isn’t Kirk, just some GAP model who got the job, where is the Farragut and on and on. They turned against the series before it barely started. And I loved it lol.

Even though some was let down by the first movie they were convinced the next one was going to be real TOS this time. Abrams was just making something to please the newbies. Now it was coming!

But man, when it was revealed that Khan and he was played by Sherlock, these guys wanted to make a citizen arrest against Abrams. And one of these guys was Indian too. So he was really upset about it.

Of course I agreed with him. But he was such an arrogant dick acting for years like TNG was for losers and will be forgotten soon while JJ verse was going to redefine Star Trek for a new generation (snicker). He ended up hating it worse than I did. And white Khan put him over the top. I was torn because I actually felt a little bad for him. Those guys been watching Trek since the 60s.

But then I remembered all the times he said DS9 and VOY shouldn’t even exist as shows so I had no sympathy for him because JJ trashed his show. They thought Abrams was going to save Star Trek but now saw the guy as the enemy.

Exact same thing happened with all the Star Wars prequel haters and thought JJ was going to bring balance to the force again. 🙄

And I was a prequel haters too. But after 09 and especially STID, I was worried he would trash SW.

And sure enough…

I’m so happy JJ isn’t making anymore of these. Yeah we still have hack Kurtzman leading it but at least he hired the right people who understands Star Trek… finally.

But white Khan is the low point for me in NuTrek and Trek in general. STID managed to surpass both Threshold and TATV for me. Never thought that would be possible bro. And there already a lot of low points in NuTrek.

But they gave it to clueless hacks. 🙄

I’d be very happy if they silently forgot the Discovery look and went with something like the above even if they appear again in SNW or DSC. Visual continuity has never been that good with Star Trek anyway.

I wonder if the whole point of the drastic Discovery Klingon makeup was to hide the underwhelming Tyler/ Voq thing.

I realize there is little to be done about actors aging but since new Trek established that Klingons can live to be well over 100 (based on the appearance of Kang, Koloth & Kor on DS9 who were all really really old) Worf who is considerably younger on the Picard show than they were when on DS9, is looking like he is well over 100. That said, it’s not the first time Picard severely messed with the age of certain long lived characters.

Again, not sure what can be done about that without using computers. But there it is.

He doesn’t look “well over 100.” That’s just silly. There’s nothing wrong with how he looks.

He looks as old as Kor, Koloth & Kang did when they were over 100.

And maybe they looked like that for decades. (Also, the actors were all around Dorn’s age now but looked older).

Neither Michael Dorn nor Worf looks 70, let alone 150.

Different humans age differently, so that shouldn’t be any different for Klingons. Worf’s hair is white, that doesn’t mean he’s very old. Did you know that Matt LeBlanc had to die his hair brown for Friends because he was already going gray in the show’s middle seasons when he was around 30? And some famous actors always looked old even when they weren’t. Ellen Corby looked old in Its A Wonderful Life, 20+ years before she played Grandma Walton on The Waltons. Wilford Brimley was playing a man with teenage grandchildren in his early 50s.

Yeah some people just age differently. I think giving Worf all white hair obviously makes him look older, but not a hundred lol. But I know having all white hair has put some fans off, but he looks like the age he should be IMO.

But you raise a great point. Actors sometimes play much older or younger depending on their own looks. Patrick Stewart was playing Picard as a 60 year old character even though he was just in his mid-40s because he was balding and had white hair. But then Scott Bakula played Archer in his early 40s although he was already in his 50s at the time because he obviously could pass for a younger character. So it could go both directions.

I mean Jennifer Lien even played a 2 year old as Kes! ;D

Yes but that doesn’t change the fact that he looks as old as Kang, Koloth & Kor did when they were on DS9. And they were well over 100.

I disagree. His hair is white, otherwise he doesn’t look nearly as old as Kor (who we saw a few times, each time looking older than before) but white hair does not mean he is elderly. Kang, Kor and Koloth were all various shades of gray, not solid white. So either Worf is a lot older than Kang, Kor, and Koloth, or something else is going on (i.e., his family has a tendency for white hair in mid-life (which his 70s would be for a Klingon.)

John Colicos was in his mid to late 60s (younger than Dorn is now) when he returned as Kor. Compare him out of makeup then to Dorn now, and Colicos also looked much older.

I don’t think he does at all. He’s aged a lot better than any of them.

Huh? Michael Dorn looks fabulous! Sorry to hear you don’t like it, but I think he looks really spiffy.

They gave Worf white hair. That’s pretty much it. The rest is all Dorn and neither Worf or Dorn look well over 100.

And he looks just as old as other Klingons we’ve seen who were well over 100.

Ok well this is the third time you say that. No, Worf looks years younger than Kang, Kor or Koloth. I suggest you rewatch Blood Oath.

Sometimes it’s like ML31 is over 100 himself the way he argues lol. It’s no point. He’s made up his mind clearly.

Yes I actually think he’s getting up there… but actually I think we’re around the same age! :)


He will literally argue anything, he’s a right wing troll. Worf looks awesome, that’s all that matters.

He looks just fine as he is. There’s nothing wrong with his appearance; actually looks pretty slick.

And this view is from someone who has never liked Worf

Uh, the new spine has gradually caused him to age prematurely (insert Beverly Crusher technobabble). Oh yea, he also turned into a Klingon caveman once. That has to put a strain on your genetic code.

There ya go.

We may finally get a great season of Star Trek: Picard. Everything I’ve seen about this so far has me excited.

Season 2 is far better binged.

I’m hoping so, because week to week it was painfully bad.

Yes,, painfully bad!

I’m sorry I still can’t believe they spent basically a year writing this season and so much of it came off so awful and nonsensical. I could’ve wrote that season, that’s how bad it was.

It wasn’t just bad Star Trek, it was bad TV.

binned? :)

Starting to look like home!

There’s been some serious buzz that this is the best Star Trek since the days of the Temporal Cold War.

The temporal Cold War? What have you been smoking, man? I pretend that nonsense never existed.

I didn’t mind the TCW concept, especially someone who likes time travel stories. But the execution was really bad overall. And then we later find out they don’t even know who Future Guy is lol. That is still the biggest mind boggling thing to me, how do you create this entire subplot to the show but you don’t even know who or why your antagonist is doing it? I get on TV shows they don’t necessarily know who did the murder until the middle of a season but when you are doing a time travel story (and it’s meant to go through the entire run of the show or a lot of it) it’s probably best to lay out as much as you can before you start or it can get really really messy later.

But the irony is I actually like the episodes themselves. Most of them are fun and interesting and I really love Daniels. I was hoping he popped up on Discovery. And now since they are referencing TCW on that show (and even tied it to the Kelvin universe) maybe we could see him again and more of that story. I don’t have an issue with revisting it if they really do, but if you’re going to do it, have a REAL plan for it. But since this is still Discovery, I don’t trust them to have a real plan anymore than Enterprise did with it.

I’m with you there. The CW concept was actually a clever way to both have a story that was both before Kirk and after Janeway at the same time. IF executed correctly. But there in lies the rub. It never was. One, it was just too slow of a burn, especially for a show that was episodic and not serialized. two, the main bad guys were BORING. three, the bad guys came from a future past kirk et al but still couldn’t figure out how to actually travel back in time but Daniels couldn’t stop them himself and needed Archer’s help? I mean I could poke SO MANY more holes in this but I think we all know the point is clear.

Yeah there were so many issues with it and it’s not exactly hard to see why when for the first two seasons we never got a resolution about any of it. I will say I liked how they handled it more in third season and tied it to the Xindi story line but it still didn’t resolve it in any tangible way. And then we got Storm Front and it was just over. I read later Brannon Braga said they ended it that soon because they assumed fourth season would be its last but was going to bring it back if it got a fifth season. Maybe some things should stay dead lol.

For the record I love Enterprise today but it was partly TCW that put me off in the beginning.

I love Enterprise today but to be fair it’s because with the exception of the cartoons and SNW I compare it to what we have today and in comparison it looks like Shakespeare lol. Like I said, good idea, bad execution. Discovery. Bad idea. Bad effects. Bad story. Piss poor ridiculous and PURE EVIL make up. I know you and I disagree on this part but I hate Discovery even more in the 32nd century than I do in the 23rd. At least in the 23rd century we have SNW to refute it’s ridiculousness. Discovery in the 32nd century is writing canon for ALL of Star Trek and it is BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD canon! Who cares if Kirk or Picard or Sisko or Janeway save the Federation because one day a baby cries. I know I say that line over and over but I have yet to here a legitimate argument against it. The Federation in the 32nd century looks worse than 22nd century Earth Starfleet. :-(. One show has wrecked 55+ years of Trek history in my book.

Man you REALLY don’t like Discovery lol. I mean I’m pretty hard on it at times but I have defended it as many times as I criticized it. I mean I DO like the show overall, but just massively disappointed with it four seasons in. And yeah I do like it more in the 32nd century. But same time they have squandered it so much as I mentioned to you before so we actually agree overall, I just prefer to put it in a new setting where it just doesn’t completely contradict canon like I felt it was in the 23rd century. And we certainly agree over the baby Kelpian issue.

I know others like TG47 like the concept and he’s surprised how much I don’t like it. But I reeeeeaaaally don’t like it lol. If it’s a crying Q kid or something, OK, maybe I can buy that. It just reeks of horrible story telling to me. Yes it’s Star Trek, it’s usually pretty absurd. That’s why I love LDS, it revels in that absurdity in a very clever way. But even its absurdity has to have some decent logic behind it…this isn’t one of them. When Janeway and Paris turned into salamander after hitting warp 10 was the nuttiest thing Star Trek had done to that point IMO, but they also tried to use SOME logic on how it worked…and that failed too lol. But I still buy that over some kid outburst that could carry on for trillions of miles. One light year is over 5 trillion miles. This thing carried at least 50 times that. It’s sooo ridiculous.

There are plenty of things that happens every season on this show we have to suspend or disbelief for. But others are just so far out there in its ridiculousness, you have to call BS on it, although its fine if others except it. The problem with Discovery is it’s done a lot of loopy things even for Star Trek standards and when it’s all so serialized it stands out more versus a whacky episode you get on TOS or VOY that you can forget about in literally the next episode.

Getting back to the ‘topic’, that was the problem with TCW, it wasn’t just an episode, it was the basis for the entire show. I didn’t think it was ridiculous like the crying Kelpian kid or hitting warp 10, I thought the idea was actually clever. It was just badly executed, that’s all. They had an interesting idea but never really thought it through.

And yes, I think when Enterprise came around and people complained, a lot of it was that they thought it was a bad prequel to TOS. But after getting Discovery, it looks like a masterpiece today lol. To me that was the other irony, a lot of people thought Berman didn’t care enough about TOS and why Enterprise wasn’t closer to it. But then we got the Kelvin movies that just felt like a caricature to TOS in many ways how the characters came off, turning Kirk into a jock with daddy issues, Apple bridges and yes, “Khan’.

Just more proof in my mind maybe no one should be making any prequels lol. SNW is definitely the best so far, but it took four tries to satisfy most fans. But I think future shows should just be post-Nemesis or Post-Picard but would be OK with a SNW spin off it happens someday.

No sorry, the Kelpian kid scream carried at least 5,000 times that, not 50. And it’s probably farther than that. But we know the Federation was around 8,000 light years wide in the 24th century. No telling how big it was by the 31st century. It might’ve been twice that size by then.

Again which just points out how silly it was IMO.

Yeah, getting back to TCW, I think it would have worked a whole lot better if it was just a season 1 plot and they focused a whole lot more eps of season 1 on it and wrapped it up and moved on to something else in season 2. I know that goes against everything we say about liking episodic trek more these days but for what ENT was trying to go for in those days I think it would have worked better. They were just going to try to go for way to ambitious of a story stretched over way too long at a time when Trek was tiring itself out and on a network that was killing it self and they had way too many things going against it.

Regarding the baby, I’ll just say this. Other than time travel or a new Q coming in, I don’t see a way of fixing it. The federation, after centuries of fighting for it and 55+ real life years of investing in it, just blew up literally one day. Ok, I’ll drop it now.

The best Star Trek since an era of Star Trek that failed to find viewers? That’s not high praise. :)

I hope this ends up being half as good as it looks, because it will be awesome.

Dorm looks amazing in his black uniform and white hair. I hope the story does him justice.

Same! 👍

Worf is so…….pretty. Nicely manscaped.

I was just thinking about this, but I don’t think anyone will ever beat Dorn’s record in terms of Star Trek appearances. This guy has already played Worf for 11 seasons and five movies across three different shows. That’s impressive. Now he can add another season and show on his resume with Picard. We still don’t know how many episodes he’ll be in (I think we only know Riker and Picard will be in every episode but nothing has been confirmed with the others) but it will probably be most.

And there is a chance he can show up in the spin off show too!

Could also appear on Lower Decks or Prodigy. It’s been mentioned he knew Mariner.

Also true! And I have a feeling he will show up on LDS too, especially as you said he worked with Mariner. And the TNG cast overall has really made the most appearances than any Trek cast in general. Frakes still holds the record on appearing on the most shows: DS9, VOY, ENT, PIC and LDS. But all of them has at least appeared on two other shows outside of TNG when you now include Picard. Just shows how much traction they still have in the fanbase decades later!

But of course he did.

Who didn’t? She knows more Starfleet officers than Picard at the annual admirals’ dinner…

Has anyone ever tried to calculate how much time in the makeup chair that comes out to?

LOL no idea. I’m sure Dorn himself knows though. ;)

I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t want to know. Too depressing ;-)

I’ve often wondered how much less Dorn and Spiner were probably paid given all the extra hours they probably had to put in for makeup alone.

Actually they get paid more DUE to the extra hours of sitting for make up. All the actors who gets prosthetic did. I can’t remember who confirmed this, but I remember either Armin Shimerman or Ethan Phillips who said it but remember one of them talking about it in an interview years ago when discussing their character and the make up process.

And I remember when Dorn was asked to do DS9, they had to promise him they would find a way to cut the make up time down which they did.

Ahh, well that’s good to know they were compensated for their time. So many people in full time jobs these days are not. Esp in fields such as mine where you are on call and it’s just like you work whenever.

They would have gotten overtime pay per SAG rules.

Good to know!

Wow he looks great. Worf is one of my favorite Star Trek characters. I’m so excited for this season. Here’s hoping for that Captain Worf show! And a new Worf action figure from Picard S3.

Hopefully if Strange New Worlds ever use Klingons they will just use this makeup.

From what people who work on SNW have hinted(on twitter and other social media outlets) we will see TOS-TNG and DSC klingons in SNW.

That would actually be great if true. Most people who hated them didn’t want the DIS Klingons wiped away completely so much as they wanted the classic Klingons acknowledged again. And since that has clearly happened on all the other shows now, then that would be a good compromise for everyone just like what they did with the Romulans in Picard.

I would be happy to see the TOS Klingons again if true!

I don’t mind the TOS Klingons, but the DSC Klingons need to be wiped from history. They’re the product of an over zealous showrunner wanting to put his mark on this storied franchise, by unnecessarily reinventing a classic race to the point where they don’t even look like Klingons anymore… That goes for their ships too.

It’s a reason why I’m happy Fuller is not there anymore, because I seriously doubt he would’ve changed anything even after the complaints. He seems notorious for being a control freak and doing everything his way and probably why he keeps bouncing from show to show.

The DIS Klingons just went too far. You can’t just wipe out a very iconic species, probably the most iconic alien species in Star Trek next to the Vulcans and completely change the look after 30+ years and multiple movies/TV shows and expect fans not to care. Honestly it just did the show no favors at all and really set the show back with a lot of the fanbase from the start. It’s just like British Khan all over again, beyond tone deaf and clearly trying to rectify it years later.

Again, people can try and convince themselves otherwise, but it’s not exactly a mystery why they have literally disappeared off Discovery since season 2 and has never made an appearance on Picard or SNW yet. And yet the Klingons we HAVE seen on the animated shows are the TOS films/Berman era Klingons again. Because that’s what most people want because that’s what they grew up with including all these new show runners making these shows. Nothing stops them from using both the classic Klingons and the DIS Klingons on Lower Decks or Prodigy either, but it’s pretty obvious the DIS Klingons have just been phased out completely on those shows. Maybe they will be brought back again in SNW, but it’s no way in hell we won’t see the classic look on that show.

But I think there has just been a major shift in mentality altogether. People like Abrams and Fuller wanted to redesign the universe in their image, which is fine if people like it enough. But everything after those has been basically bringing back the universe people knows with some changes when it’s appropriate. UNLESS you are doing a hard reboot, that’s simply the way it should be, period. You don’t see anyone at Lucasfilm changing the look of Wookies or Jawas with their new Star Wars movies or TV shows just because they can. Because they know fans would lose their $#%@ if they tried lol.

So I don’t understand why people would think it would be different for Star Trek fans? And as they found out (the hard way), it isn’t. ;)

Fully agree with this. I’ll be happy if we never see DISCO Klingons again.

This looks good, I just hope they don’t kill him off.

Worf looking total boss! Please please please let this be real TNG again! None of whatever this show has been the first two seasons. 🙄

‘None of whatever this show has been the first two seasons’ It has been a show called Star Trek Picard that is what it has been the first 2 seasons. I know you don’t like the new take on the Trek universe Picard has taken for the 2 seasons but personally i love both seasons and they are a worthy addition to the francise and to the history of TNG and VOY.

Man I absolutely adore SNW, LDS and PRO! Those are up there for me like TNG, DS9 and VOY. All love man, ALL LOVE!!!!

I’m not some blind hater to all things NuTrek (won’t lie though, pretty convinced I was going to to be after the first decade came and went. Gotta get better than Fratboy Kirk listening to Beastie Boys every movie… right?). But I can stomach Beyond.

So it got better finally.

But I think Picard is about as pleasant as a colonoscopy exam. I tried to like it I really did. The show, not the colonoscopy. What’s crazy is I thought I was going to love Picard but hate Lower Decks. Sometimes I think I’m just living in the Mirror Universe.

(That would’ve at least explained Trump being President.)

But if you love it though that’s great! We’re all fans, everyone has their preferences, likes and dislikes. I’m crossing my fingers for next season though. 🤌

Anyway don’t take my opinion too much to heart.You’re talking to a guy whose one of their favorite episodes is ‘Justice’. Why does everyone hates this episode so much??? IT CHALLENGES OUR VIEW OVER FOLLOWING A SOCIETY’S MORALES AND LAWS IN THE FACE OF THE PRIME DIRECTIVE!!!

Yeah there were lot of half naked people everywhere like some erotic hippie commune! So what?? Roddenberry was a horn dog! Let the man BE A HORN DOG!! The message he was trying to get across still matters people! 😕

I watched again a month ago! It STILL holds up!

Anyway, we all have our battles to fight; to open eyes and change minds. You’re not alone in the struggle brother. You’re not alone.

LOL I remember when that episode first aired and my mother nearly didn’t let me watch it because it looked like soft core porn to her. I rewatched it for the first time in probably 20 years when I did a grand rewatch of the franchise last year and it’s still pretty bad. And it’s one of those things where the concept is interesting but it would probably be the first thing you learn before you even beam done like ‘hey, you can definitely totally participate in our orgies, but yeah if you liter, it’s death!. Just passing that along. Namaste, oh and bring your own supply of k-y jelly!’.

Luckily my Mom didn’t mind. It was her fault I liked Star Trek to begin with so she didn’t have a leg to stand on LOL

While I wouldn’t place “Justice” in the top half of TNG episodes, I also think there were many worse ones.

At least “Justice” was a high-concept episode, however, inartfully executed and indulgent of Roddenberrian horniness. Compare that to imaginary friends, “good mawning ladies and germs” stand-up comics, Lwaxana and Alexander taking a mudbath, Counselor Durango, “it’s raining men” on Lwaxana, etc.

I’ll take it! 😂

At least you’re not trying to get me banned over it like the people at Trekweb back in the day. It was admitting to liking Justice or maybe because I tried to get a campaign going for a year to get all copies of STID burned and/or buried to pretend it never existed like most of JJ verse. I’m pretty sure it was my feelings over Justice though.

Why can’t more Trek fans just be tolerant of others taste and respect they might like something others don’t? It’s truly sad how self centered, oblivious and myopic some of these people can be. 🙄

I remember how much hype Picard had when it was announced. It’s probably still the thing I was most excited about easily when it was announced since Voyager was announced. I think for a lot of people who weren’t interested in all the prequels and reboots we got for 15 straight years or just wanted to be back in the TNG era again. And you couldn’t find a bigger apologist for this show before it started. I didn’t reject a single idea we heard about it. And when we got that first full trailer seeing the Borg, Romulans, Seven of Nine and Data my heart was pumped! It finally felt like Star Trek was back in it’s original form again. I thought this was going to be the greatest thing after watching it.

And then I finally watched it and yeah, immensely disappointed by the end. Not the worst season ever or anything and I thought the first half was mostly strong. But that’s how serialized shows work, if the ending doesn’t stick to landing, then the whole thing is awash for most people. And season 2 sputtered out of the gate even faster than season 1 did and I was originally just as excited for it once we learned Q was coming back. I don’t think I will watch season 2 ever again outside the first two episodes. I might change my mind in the future but I really don’t want to, I’ll put it that way.

Unfortunately Picard is my least favorite show in the entire franchise at the moment. It doesn’t mean it will stay that way if season 3 knocks it out of the park. But in all honesty, the only reason why I even care about it is because the entire TNG cast is back. If it wasn’t for that, I don’t know if I would have any enthusiasm for it like I have none with Discovery so far next season either.

Discovery still holds that “honor” for me but at the moment Picard is second. Till the other three Kurtzman shows I had no hope at all for this new era. And LDS, while so much fun, its still a comedy more than anything else so it’s kinda hard for me to take as canon even tho I know it is.

Discovery was my least favorite until Picard came along lol. I did enjoy second season of Discovery waaaay more than I did second season of Picard and it edges that show out, even though that season still had a ton of issues obviously. But sadly both still pretty bad IMO.

I love LDS to death but I can definitely understand if people can’t take it seriously enough to see it as canon. I’m surprised I even can too lol. But ironically it was the more in-cannon show to me when compared to the Kelvin movies and Discovery. And to me, it’s ALL canon, I don’t question any of it even if I understand why others do about a particular show or movie. I have ALMOST considered Nemesis non-canon. I used to think it was soooo bad lol.

I enjoyed DIS as a show. I’ve often said if it wasn’t “Star Trek”, I would have thought of it as decent Sci Fi. But the canon violations took me right out of it. the Red Angel Suit. The ridiculous Section 31 fleet. The idea of mirror universe people all over the place and being around before Kirk and Spock. I mean there are canon violations where you bend the rules a bit for the story (which I STILL think is lazy) and then there is this crap where you just are disrespecting the fan base. The same fan base that kept a franchise alive more than any other fan base in history ever has. SUCH disrespect it makes me want to puke. They could have done that same story like a million other ways. the “suit” could have been iconian or any other found tech. The “secret” fleet could be named literally anything other than section 31. I mean geez people. You are just horrible and BAD.

Sorry, I meant I enjoyed DIS season 2 as a show. The rest was crap, Trek or otherwise .

For all my many, many complaints about PIC, I will say that at least it’s introduced some interesting concepts/characters. And right now, I’m mostly just eager for the series to wrap so a spin-off can explore them without this iteration of Jean-Luc sucking up all the oxygen in the room. :p

Yes it has been Picard of course. But that’s not what it was trying to be. Picard season one was trying to be TNG: Logan and S2 was trying to be TNG: 12 Monkeys. Both failed from those perspectives, whether enjoyable or not.

I don’t get the comment about the paint.
He says back in the day he was using acrylics, now it airbrush. That makes no sense. The former is a type of paint, the latter a type of paint application. I can airbrush acrylics, enamels, water colors, whatver. I can also brush on acrylics, enamels, oil colors etc. What does he want to say? And why is nobody talking about that?

Anybody an explanation?

would be nice to know what has happened to the  House of Martok.

It would be nice to get name drops of both Martok and Jadzia.

I still have to get use to the fully white hair because I find if they had put a bit of dark hair in between it would have been better. But ok let’s see how it will appear “in motion”!

Yeah I totally agree. I think it’s a little too white for me too, and I get why some people would feel he looks too old because generally the whiter the hair, the older the person…. and his is very white.

I think, like you said, if it was more nuanced with shades of darker and lighter greys, like the Klingon’s from Blood Oath, or the Judge from ENT’s Judgement, it might have made it look less jarring.

And I think they’ve used a really thin wig too. Worf, and all Klingon’s apart from the DISCO orcs, have always had very thick locks. So I think what sticks out most for me is the lack of volume and texture. Whether he had his shorter hair in TNG, or had his hair tied back in DS9, his forehead was always framed by his very thick hairline, which is missing here because of the thinner wig.

For me anyhow, I think that is what makes his overall appearance seem different.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he looks great generally and so happy they went with the make-up we all know and love, but I just wish they’d stuck with his thicker hair and gave the colour of the wig and facial hair different tones.

And I think they’ve used a really thin wig too. Worf, and all Klingon’s apart from the DISCO orcs, have always had very thick locks. So I think what sticks out most for me is the lack of volume and texture.

You just pinpointed what was bothering me about it but couldn’t identify.

Yeah I totally agree. I think it’s a little too white for me too, and I get why some people would feel he looks too old because generally the whiter the hair, the older the person…. and his is very white.

I think, like you said, if it was more nuanced with shades of darker and lighter greys, like the Klingon’s from Blood Oath, or the Judge from ENT’s Judgement, it might have made it look less jarring.

I agree. However, it’s possible PIC will show an in-universe explanation for Worf’s prematurely white hair:

Maybe it’s a stress response to the fallout of the Dominion War (whatever has apparently impacted Worf personally post-DS9).

Another explanation could be that the showrunners decided to do this as a way of visually emphasising the generational/age difference between Worf and his son, if Alexander is also going to turn up on PIC.

Other options? Some real-life human cultures promote automatic deference and respect towards elders. Klingon culture is shown as patriarchal and semi-hierarchical, so if the age thing is also a factor, Worf may have let his hair prematurely go completely white because he finds other Klingons treat him better as a result.

I like your thoughts on Worf letting his hair go completely white so that he could potentially command more respect – nice!

He may lining up with the Ambassador Worf from Star Trek Online.

I’m not sure how. He will go from Ambassador to back to Commander to Ambassador again? That’s some kind of career jumping lol

The birthday collage above made me wonder: Is this new look the FIRST time we’ve seen Worf’s ears? He always had a hairline going down in front of them AFAIR. Right? Or were there ever any scenes of him in bed with Jadzia, or in battle, where his ears could be glimpsed? 👂👂❓️

I am not a merry man! But I am a pacifist!

From what I have seen. Picard looks Epic!!!

Not to split hairs and be “that guy”, but Worf didn’t join the House of Martok at the start of season 4. The Martok we saw then was a changeling then and not very friendly.

Worf is one of Trek’s most tragic characters.

Ironically Worf hasn’t been through the type of pain some of the other characters have but he feels it more so in that way I agree.

He’s been through plenty of pain. His parents were murdered. He was raised by humans, and accidentally killed a kid playing soccer. He was never fully accepted by humans or Klingons. He was forced to accept the blame on behalf of his father for a crime he didn’t commit. The mother of his child died in front of him, because she was trying to find out the truth about those events. He had to become a single father, and never fully connected to his son. He was kicked out of Klingon society a second time. He remarried, and then his new wife was also murdered. Its just one tragedy after another with this guy.

Out of boredom, I was reading up some of the past Klingon articles and I came across this one. It’s really telling reading the article and then the comments that it shouldn’t be a surprise this is where we ended up:

Again, it boggles the mind. They just didn’t understand the fanbase they were talking to and now just a few years later those Klingons are all but wiped from existence…for now at least. And a return to what they should’ve never tried to ignore in the first place by bringing back the TOS films/TNG era Klingons.

I’ll make this clear as I have done a thousand times now. You want to do something creatively different from 50 year old canon, GREAT, but you have to do one of two things and either A. EXPLAIN the differences within the canon. Write in a line somewhere those other guys took off to Risa for a few years, just SOMETHING!!! or B. REBOOT it completely and just start over from the ground up. Instead they chose C. To do neither. And now 5+ years later they gone the opposite way bringing back the Westmore style Klingons again but pretending the Discovery Klingons don’t exist anymore.

Again, maybe that might change but it’s so tone deaf what they tried to do in the first place.

I always HATED the whole, “Klingons have never looked consistent” argument. Sure in TOS they were just painted black. but lets be real, that was never going to fly moving forward and when you had an actual budget to play with. They were changed out of real world necessity. Changing from Worf style to DISCO style and using TOS to Worf style as an example is frankly insulting.

The TOS Klingons were their own thing…and they were in 7 measely episodes. Everyone understood the Klingons we got in the movies and then the spin off shows had become the definitive Klingons from that point on. It’s exactly why when Enterprise started, no one cared that they were sticking with the TOS films/TNG era Klingons because everyone understood this is what the Klingons simply were now. And another reason why they didn’t have to do the whole augment story line but what’s done is done with that now.

I said this many many times but I’m pretty sure in Fuller’s head, he was just rebooting the show but he couldn’t just say that because TPTB knew how much fans wanted the Prime universe back. But that was the problem, they actually wanted it back, not just told it was but then excuse all the dramatic changes as ‘visual canon’. That was the most corporate sounding double-speak nonsense I have heard to basically excuse changes to whatever they wanted or however they wanted. Yes let’s pretend these Klingons are the same Klingons that Worf, Gowron, Kor, the Duras sisters, Martok and others came from. It’s ‘visual canon’, yeah it’s all the same…kind of.

Well we saw how well that worked out lol.

What they are doing in SNW is how ‘visual canon’ should be done. Updating things to modern times but still in line with the original aesthetic is a different thing than just changing whatever the $%#% you want like, ie, the Discovery Klingons. And that’s why I’m 100% confident we’ll get the classic Klingons on that show too.

So I get the idea of rebooting a show. It worked great for BattleStar Galactica. But you don’t reboot a franchise that has had 5 series and 10 movies LOL. At least not without a darn good explanation besides we want our Klingons to looks like Orcs :-P.

Again the main reason to reboot something is to avoid canon. and no one will ever convince me that avoiding canon isn’t lazy speak. Adhering to canon is EASY. Show me any episode of Star Trek EVER and I can easily show how to avoid canon with a few exceptions like women can’t be captains which in of themselves should be violated.

Other than that, if you don’t want to violate canon then 1) get writers that know the subject matter, b) get researchers that are familiar with memory alpha and know what they are doing, or c), and this is the important one, STOP doing prequels?

I’m perfectly fine with rebooting if they honestly felt the Prime universe had become too cumbersome to tell stories. That was a huge reason why they felt the Kelvin movies were needed. They felt TOS had become too outdated but then the 24th shows had spread the universe thin because there was over 500 episodes and films it covered. For the record, I NEVER believed that but I do agree if you want to do something TOTALLY left field, then yeah you probably have to reboot it.

And I agreed with them putting the Kelvin movies in another universe because how ELSE can you redo TOS without rebooting it? That was the problem. As long as you tell new and original stories, you really shouldn’t have a problem when you have a show that can appear in any century or any part of the galaxy. But if you want to just fully go down the nostalgia lane like remaking a show then that is different.

And I also agree for NEW fans it is easier if you start from the beginning and they don’t have to worry about 3 centuries and 10 shows worth of canon to think about. But I think as the Kelvin movies sadly proved, that’s not going to just win you new fans either. We just have to admit, Star Trek will always carry a certain stigma and it’s going to scare certain people off. But I understood taking it back to the show starting it off with a clean slate made sense at the time.

But considering we now have 5 new TV shows, 4 of them takes place in known periods and one in the far future, I think they realized that A. You’re only going to get a certain number of new fans so kowtow to the old ones like you been doing for 50 years already and why we now have 50 legacy characters running around the ‘new’ shows and B. that the Prime universe is what really keeps the fans invested BECAUSE of all that mythology and history you built up with it. Again, we used to hear SO MUCH how can you tell anymore stories in the prime universe and after Voyager?? Like what else can they do?????? They like done it all man. LOL! This tells you why just because you’re a fan doesn’t mean you can be a writer. ;)

Because now we five shows and four of them all making post-Nemesis stories and the funny thing the people making Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy etc wants to keep making more of it. And yes, all in the same universe and in the 23rd, 24th, 25th centuries and beyond. And that’s another thing, now that Discovery is in the 32nd century, nothing stops them for putting shows in the 27th or 28th century, etc. But I suspect most will stick around the TOS and TNG eras because you can stick all your legacy characters there. ;)

But yes if they ever decide to do another TOS or even TNG reboot someday (which I really really hope not on both accounts) they will have to reboot the universe again. And I don’t know if they really want to do that considering those reboot isn’t going to draw in anymore fans that they have now watching all these shows today in the universe they know and love. I think they given up trying to do the mass level of new fandom since the Kelvin movies failed that task. But maybe they will try another big reboot one day. But probably not for years unless outside of trying to come up with a Kelvin movie for the 6th time. ;)


That article proves why so many people working on that show were hacks. 🙄

I’ll be fair about it and say it was what Fuller wanted and their hands were basically tied, but c’mon???

These rando freaks never should’ve existed in the first place. They were the reason why people were saying Discovery is not even canon or really takes place in another alternate universe. Yeah one that has apparently bizarro Klingons and dreary art design because so much of Discovery just looked so off from the Prime universe and TOS.

We want REAL Star Trek! To see Klingons most of us became fans of in the first place. I love Worf and B’Elanna and in future show or movies they might show up in again I want to see THEM! Not some weird JJ verse/Kurtzman/NuTrek version of them. Ugh

And they obviously get that today, at least the newer show runners now. They are getting the Trekkies to run these shows and you really see the difference today with the animated shows especially.

I have more faith in Picard season 3 because they brought a lot of TNG vets who knows what the bleep they are doing.It still might be an awful season but hopefully it will look like TNG again. Worf is on the right foot!

Discovery was just a hodge podge dumpster fire of a show run by clueless people and why that show is a thousand years in the future today.

I’m surprised when they got to the 32nd century someone didn’t tell them the Klingons were wiped out by highly evolved augmented Tribbles and then their problems would be solved. 😁

LOL at the last part. I’m guessing we haven’t seen Klingons in the 32nd century because the creatives behind DSC have wanted to put some distance before reintroducing them. If you recall, “corrections” were implemented in Season 2, obviously because of fan backlash. Even with hair, L’Rell and many other Klingons seen in S2 looked much different than S1. *** I will say one thing I did very much approve of … the use of Klingon language with subtitles.

Since the theme of DSC S5 seems to be a galactic treasure hunt, I wouldn’t be surprised if we finally see the Klingons again.

I do want to see Klingons in the 32nd century, just as long as they are the real Klingons.

But you’re right, they were better in season 2. Still a little off but not as bad as first season. I was cool with them. And you know I always liked L’Rell. She was cool and want to see her back. I’m not a blind hater to everything Discovery… just everything that sucks in it. 😉🙄

But they heard the fans and I’m happy Lower Decks and Prodigy took it old school again. So maybe we will see them on Discovery again.

Agreed. I think since Worf looks like Worf, if/when we see Klingons again on DSC they will look most expect them to.

Yeah as I said in another post here, I think the mentally had changed between what we got in the Kelvin movies and Discovery, ie, trying to reboot Star Trek for a more modern time and audiences. You can include Picard in that as well, at least in terms of its tone and format, but at least it LOOKS like TNG, just an updated version of it as it SHOULD be. Discovery just went way too far off the reservation for some fans and why the show has had the difficulty being accepted by a lot of them out of the gate. I do think it’s better now, but still a more divisive show. That can’t be denied.

But it looks like the mentality changed when Lower Decks appeared, and then Prodigy and SNW. All these shows tried to fit completely in with classic Trek canon again, from obviously the looks and style of the old shows, but how they told their stories again. LDS and SNW are episodic again. PRO is more serialized but it’s done in a way you can still watch an episode on its own and not feel completely lost like trying to watch an individual episode of DIS and PIC (but you can with some DIS episodes IMO). SNW just copied what TOS, TNG, VOY and ENT basically did with one off adventure stories, A and B plots and ensemble based (the last two is taken mostly from the spin offs). Fans really missed this story telling, I certainly did.

In other words, Discovery and Picard tried to be a more contemporary show for new audiences who are used to how TV is done today and be more their own thing. But the later shows became more a throw back to past Trek shows, but obviously still modernized. Both LDS and PRO are very contemporary animated shows and but they still follow the style of classic Trek shows. They are proof you can do what Star Trek fans want, different…but the same. ;)

As for Picard, season 3, it is still sticking to the contemporary format, ie, serialized story telling. But it obviously is trying to bring back the look and feel of TNG more so than the first two seasons did. And a lot of people who have seen it said it is more like TNG season 8, so it too is trying to get back to classic Star Trek again. It’s literally why Worf looks like Worf and not a new version of him in a Discovery style Klingon.

For the record, I think most Trek fans will watch ANYTHING lol. As long as Star Trek is on the title, they will give it all a chance. I think the issue with the new era of Star Trek is they tried to do things TOO differently for new fans but the old fans wanted something similar to the 90s shows again and they recognize that and have calibrated. When you have 5 shows and 10 films in the same universe for 40 years with a similar style and a very fickle fanbase you can’t just change everything and expect everyone to adapt. The fanbase is too conditioned after so many decades. It’s not the same thing when TNG arrived in 1987, because it was just TOS with 3 seasons and 4 movies. And as we know, even then it was hard to get those fans to accept change to a new style and show and even a few to this day never accepted it lol.

The Discovery Klingons has become this odd symbolism of trying to change things wholeheartedly and it didn’t work. As I said, it’s because not so much for just being different but also for trying to just completely erase the old that really bothered people. I think that”s what this is really about, trying to completely erase the past for something new and fans rejected it.

Now it’s all about the past again (ie, nostalgia) and yeah, it’s mostly working.

Exactly! 👍

I’m not hating because it’s different. I’m hating because it made no sense in the prime universe. Trekkies care about stuff like that.

If they called it a reboot and put them in a different universe, cool I’ll give it a shot and watch it every week. Do whatever you want in a different universe. But you’re right, the Prime universe is sacred and really what I mostly care about. And you shouldn’t be allowed to add whatever nonsense you want and expect fans to like it, especially when it’s such a bad change like these weird Klingons were. And I’m not blaming the actors of course. They all did their best. Not even the people who made them. The only blame goes to the people who signed off on it.

I didn’t suffer through 3 mediocre JJ verse movies just to get back to the prime universe again with all the characters and species I love just to make them look and act unrecognizable. Like why call it the Prime universe then?!? Where are the real Klingons, ships and characters??? Where are the uniforms and costumes? This isn’t a poor BSG or GOT, it should be Star Trek. It’s bad enough it’s another boring prequel but at least try to make it look and feel like it belongs in TOS.

We’re paying for this bleep now. If you want to make it Fullerverse then call it that. Worf can look like a werewolf if they want there. But in prime universe, the universe most of us wanted to get back to since 2005, then he should look like Worf, period. Anything else would be an insult.

And I have no problem if they create new things. I’m a 24th century fan first but would like it if they pushed it farther in the future with new characters and stories. Doesn’t have to be just TNG era. I don’t mind another prequel either because SNW is soooo good (but still prefer going forward)!

Just make it feel like Star Trek! And they finally done it with Lower Decks, Prodigy and Strange New Worlds.

Worf has ears!?

That’s what I was wondering… or better, if we’d EVER seen what they looked like, before!? 🤷‍♂️

Well, we knew the half-Romulan young woman Ba’el in TNG Birthright wasn’t fully Klingon because she had pointed ears.

My ONLY issue and it’s minor is considering the lifespan of Klingons….. I could see maybe white goatee and eyebrows but still black or pepper hair

“if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
I wish they had took that to heart before now!