Paramount+ Affirms Section 31 Star Trek Show Still In Development As Michelle Yeoh Wins Golden Globe

It’s now been four years since a new “Section 31” Star Trek series starring Michelle Yeoh was first announced. While the actress’ profile has only increased—even more so after she picked up a Golden Globe Award on Tuesday night—Paramount+ has yet to put in a series order for the show. But a key executive wants us to know they are still talking about it.

P+ is still talking about Yeoh show

At the TCA event on Monday, Paramount+ promoted a number of upcoming shows, including the third season of Star Trek: Picard. During the Picard panel, there were no announcements of any other season or series orders for Star Trek. However, TV Line got a Paramount executive to talk about one particular show that has been on their radar since 2019. From the TVLine report:

Yet despite Yeoh’s status as a hot commodity, Tanya Giles, chief programming officer of Paramount Streaming, told TVLine at a Television Critics Association press tour event that there have been “conversations” about the Section 31 series, affirming, “It’s still in development.”

We have been here before; in fact, at the 2022 Winter TCA event, Tanya Giles was one of the Paramount+ execs that promised they would have news “soon” about the Section 31 show. Last May, executive producer Alex Kurtzman confirmed with TrekMovie that Yeoh’s Section 31 project was one of the two Star Trek shows actively in development (the other being a Starfleet Academy series), which he hinted at again at San Diego Comic-Con in July.

Michelle Yeoh as Georgiou in Discovery season 3

Yeoh’s star rises with Golden Globe win

While Paramount+ keeps the conversation going, Michelle Yeoh keeps busy. There is a lot of buzz around the veteran actress right now, especially for her starring role in the 2022 film Everything Everywhere All at Once. On Tuesday night, Yeoh won the Golden Globe for that role and gave an inspiring speech at the event (which you can watch below). Yeoh’s win puts her on the top of the shortlist for an Academy Award.

Yeoh stars in the new Netflix mini-series The Witcher: Blood Origins and has a number of other projects already lined up, including a role in upcoming sequels to the biggest movie of the year, Avatar: The Way of Water. She is also a series regular in the upcoming Disney+ series American Born Chinese. Still, as recently as last year Yeoh was still holding out hope for a return to Star Trek, telling EW “I hope, as Alex [Kurtzman] has promised, we are going to do Section 31.”


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It’s in development all right…development hell.

Well when they were getting ready to production the show covid hit which delayed things and not forgetting to mention that Michelle Yeoh’s career speed up by 100 and she started getting roles left,right and center. I can see what they have to wait until a break in her schedule in order to get her in the show. Personally as long as the show gets made i don’t mind the wait i have a feeling a S31 show will do fantastic.

I don’t really buy this argument anymore. If you sign up to do a show or film, usually that means you are committed to doing it. One or two years, OK, but it’s been over four now. I can’t imagine when Stewart decided to come back as Picard, they would’ve waited 4+ years later for his schedule to clear.

I think the most obvious was the show got dropped and she just went on to other things. Again, she was on Discovery for three seasons. Somehow she managed to work out her schedule to be on that show every year and she was still doing other stuff like Rich Crazy Asians and a Marvel movie while she was on Discovery. So yeah, don’t buy it.

Patrick Stewart doesn’t have a schedule. He’s not in the same league as Michelle Yeoh. P+ will wait for the great Michelle Yeoh and I will too.

You are correct. Yeoh is an international mega star. It’s not even close.

you’re saying Patrick Stewart isn’t?

Yea, he’s not in the “mega” star category internationally. He’s an international star though, just not a huge one.

Of course Yeoh is. But you know SIR Patrick Stewart has been knighted right? That is literally international.

Not to step on anybody’s toes here, but the knighthood is a specifically British thing that nobody outside the UK really cares about. I’m not even sure if Brits really care about who gets knighted. It’s a purely ceremonial title. May have been more important centuries ago but it’s nothing more than a curiosity today.

It’s not that big a deal. Most people who have been knighted are not very wrapped up in it: although it is polite (but not required) to refer to a knight as “sir,” very few knights insist on it (although Ben Kingsley supposedly gets huffy if he’s not referred to as “Sir Ben”).

As others have said, that’s mainly a British honor.

Didn’t you mean British honour?

;-0

The point being I don’t think they would’ve had the huge fanfare of announcing Stewart to return if the guy couldn’t even do the show for several years lol. OR not even tell you when he CAN make the show after they sign him to do it when they are trying to build a new Star Trek library on their fledgling streaming site. Does that make any sense to you? Is that how Hollywood normally operates? That’s the point I’m making.

And as I said, Michelle Yeoh was working before she got the job on Discovery and oddly enough had no problem being there for three straight seasons. The Section 31 show was suppose to start shooting after they shot Discovery’s third season and now suddenly she’s in demand for the next 5 years after she agreed to do it lol.

Not buying it. They just dropped the show and she found other work. Now TODAY I agree, she is probably doing too much to drop everything to do the show. And since they are making 12 new Star Trek shows in the next decade and probably developing shows most fans are actually excited about, they can certainly wait.

Ditto with the Academy. I don’t think that show is ever going to happen. If I will say one thing about this generation’s TPTB, I really do think they are out there listening.

Hey, slightly off topic but I was on Trekcore yesterday and I saw that you finished 12 Monkeys??? Dude you promised you would tell me when you saw it!! Remember that? Now I’m angry and hurt…OK, I’m over it now! :)

But I see you really like it! The show is awesome right??? I think you are the fourth person here we converted. Feels good! It’s why we were so excited for season 2 of Picard…well let’s hope season 3 is where Matalas kicks ass! Let’s really hope!

First of all, that’s a very hollywood way of looking at things which Stewart has never cared as much about as others. He is much more of a stage actor at heart. Second, you are ignoring he could very well get snapped back up into the MCU following Hugh Jackman.

Honestly Section 31 is the new Star Trek 4. And also honestly I am fine with both. I would love a huge name like Yeoh’s back in Trek to pull in numbers but I still say a section 31 show has nowhere to go.

Sadly pretty much. And if they actually make the show, most people will at least give it a chance. It’s just something many don’t care about in general and they obviously know that, especially when you probably have show ideas most fans actually want to watch and excited for. Why put out a show half the fanbase considers an insult to even be called Star Trek in the first place before it even comes out? That’s a heavy lift lol.

And I know you heard me say this before but we know when a studio or network REALLY wants to make something because they know the box office or views are really there, they move heaven and earth to make it. MCU is always the best example. They made 8 Disney+ shows within two years. EIGHT shows! And some of them with the biggest stars on the planet. MCU gets this stuff done because A. it makes a ton of money and B. make their stars a ton of money. I haven’t heard one project yet that’s been stalled for years on end like these Trek projects.

Meanwhile four years on, you can’t get this one show going you announced before Dissney+ even existed? Really? Either make the damn show or just move on already! I’m pretty sure most people thought they already did by now lol.

I don’t think we can discount the impact of the constant changes in senior ViacomCBS-Paramount executives over the course of the merger Tiger2.

Disney has let Kevin Feige run the MCU with a fairly free hand through their transition, while over at ViacomCBS there was not only a change in most of the roles about once a year for the last five, they have not given any one executive the power to green light shows.

Since Les Moonves being fired, the level of uncertainty at senior levels has been extreme, with important decisions done by committee – for good or ill.

In his big interviews as he departed Paramount Global, David Nevins has talked about how even as head of Showtime, he did not have the power/authority to green light a series on his own.

Which brings me back to the ongoing and inexplicable weirdness on the cinematic feature side. The announcement of a release date for a feature to investors by JJ Abrams just seems to have the feel of a contractual obligation pushing a committee into a premature decision.

Kevin Feige didn’t always have such a tight reign though and he wasn’t always in total control. To this day he still heavily has to deal with Sony.

Obviously there could be internal corporate issues. I don’t pretend to know. But it’s not really hard to see either when they believe in a Star Trek project, it gets backing and the show on the air in a relatively timely matter.

In fact what’s pretty amazing is all 5 current shows got on the air within 2 years from announcement to premiere.

Discovery: 2015-2017 (And this show had the rockiest time being delayed multiple times)
Picard: 2018-2020
Lower Decks: 2018-2020
Prodigy: 2019-2021
Strange New Worlds: 2020-2022

That’s a very consistent trend. I guess this is why they pay Kurtzman the big bucks!

And then there is Section 31: 2019-possibly the next U.S. presidential election (pending). ;D

Like I say when they really believe in a show, they get it on air in a timely fashion.

Yes I really can’t imagine what could be keeping a TV project of all things stalled for FOUR YEARS except of course the star being unavailable. I mean I can’t even imagine how many pilots and show concepts they have run through by now.

Like I said earlier, Paramount may simply feel that they have enough Trek shows running in parallel, so they are waiting for one to end before starting a new one.
It will be interesting to see what happens when Picard ends. Will they move on with a spinoff of that show? Will they replace Picard with one the shows that have been reported as being in development for some time (i.e. Section 31 and the Academy show)? Or something completely different? Or maybe even reduce it to four shows in production?

Like I said earlier, Paramount may simply feel that they have enough Trek shows running in parallel, so they are waiting for one to end before starting a new one.

Great point. Yeah, given the belt tightening overall in streaming, this makes even more sense. Picard will be done soon though and DSC probably has 2-3 years left.

Given this, I will stick with my prediction that the two new shows that we will see to replace these two (to keep the total series number at four) will be Section 31 first, and then TOS Continues.

Agreed, Yeoh was was good as Terran Giorgio but it wasn’t a beloved role I feel. Everyone was calling her Space Nazi at the time. After rewatching Terra Firma it just appears to me we’ll get the quantum leap trek show. I understand that they can mark Yeoh but the character has very little appeal to me. I would much rather see a 25th century continuation of Picard or a Post Generations piece to fill the time up to the start of TNG.

I’m sure it was a fun character for her to play but it was such a one dimensional role when the role firs started. I’m evil. I enslave people. I eat sentient beings. Bla bla bla. The Mirror DS9 and ENT eps were much more nuanced.

Everyone was calling her Space Nazi at the time

No, it was more like the same 3 to 4 clown-show fans here who always lower themselves to call her that did so over and over and over such that it falsely appeared like a groundswell.

Some of us actually like to call her Adolf!

It just saves time.

This is gross.

Just like Adolf is! 🤣😒

Speaking in general terms, when I see a person post middle-school level, berating nonsense on a fan site, I find that it significantly reduces my ability to take anything that person writes seriously.

In addition, when I see childish negative banter like that, I think it says more about the person posting than it does about the topic they are hating on.

That’s how I feel every time Georgiou is on screen.

Just having some fun and messing around! Didn’t mean to make you angry. Take it easy. 😎

Please note that I changed my name from One Lion to this new name for the New Year (I made several posts mentioning that recently.)

Remember, we agreed not to directly respond to each other anymore. Also, I tried to make it clear above that I was speaking in general terms to M1701, so that was not directed at you specifically.

Anyway, you won’t get any more direct responses from me other than this one to let you know that I am enjoying the major time savings and reduced stress regarding this arrangement you suggested we make to not converse here with each other — thanks for suggesting that, and let’s keep it going please. Thanks

Oh sorry yeah didn’t realize you change your name. Not here a lot. We are definitely keeping to the deal but bro you just attacked me and then say to ignore you lol.

That’s not cool man right? I understand I made you angry but that wasn’t my intent. So I apologize if I did obviously. But you can’t insult me by ‘responding’ to another poster. C’mon bro you accused me of being childish (always guilty on that charge lol) but that’s pretty childish itself ,😂

You know what you’re doing. I just prefer we REALLY ignore each other and not proxies to talk or insult me…that’s not really ignoring me. And I’ve never done that to you here right?

If you say you’re going to ignore me…then please respect me and ignore me. That’s fair right? Ok I said my peace.

And no hard feelings, you know that. And I hope you’re doing well and had a good New Years! 😃🖖

Sure, no hard feelings. But I was very careful not to do what you are saying by clearly stating:

Speaking in general terms, when I see a person post middle-school level, berating nonsense on a fan site…

So that was not directed at you specifically. But I do see your point and get “the optics” of how this looks so I will try to be even more clear next time that I am talking in general terms — no problemo.

I agree to keep ignoring each other — yes, let’s move on. Happy New Year to you and your family too, dude!!!

Bro you were clearly insulting me man lol. That’s the only reason I responded the first time. I wasn’t even angry. The irony is I felt bad I made you angry and wanted to smooth things over.

But you were clearly attacking me. Let’s not play silly semantics. I’m only asking we truly ignore each other here. You can’t say ‘well that poster you responded to is an utter moron but since we agreed not to talk to each other he can’t defend himself.’

C’mon! Let’s not do that agreed?

I did not intend for it to come across like I was addressing you personally — that is why I was very careful in my wording. Basically, if I see a comment of anyone including yours that is in line with multiple other similar comments by others, then of course IF SOMEONE ELSE (in this case, M1701) makes a comment, I reserve the right to make a GENERAL comment. Multiple people were making the Space Hitler comment thing which I find unnecessary and not accurate — that’s what I was commenting on IN GENERAL.

It’s unreasonable to insist that I cannot make some general comments to others just because some of those general comments are in line with comments you are making.

You will NEVER see me DIRECTLY responding to you comments, and I will ALWAYS not note when my comment is a GENERAL one — I promise!

That’s the best I can do, and now this conversation is reinforcing to me why we should continue to ignore each other, right? :-)

You can have the last word. Thanks, and have a great weekend!

Yeah bro I am well aware on your thoughts on people calling her Space Hitler lol. And of course you can certainly tell people why you disagree. And you know that’s not the issue I had at all but we’ll move on.

Dude if you simply said you hate people who call her names and agreed with the poster that’s obviously fine. I would’ve just kept scrolling.

But then you went on to directly insult and attack me. You specifically called out my post. Just because you say ‘general terms’ and then proceed to insult me by calling me childish is obviously talking to me lol. Are you suggesting you weren’t talking about me then? C’mon. That’s not ignoring me and you know it. And you done this in the past too.

If you want to disagree OK. But then you made it personal right? And then seem to think it’s Ok to insult me by saying ‘general terms’ lol.

All I will say is some people are more sensitive than others about these things and yeah they act out. We’re seeing it all over this board lol. Yeah we’re passionate and we’re going to be very honest about we what say. But there is this understated rule on every message board: attack the message, not the messenger. It’s really that simple.

Most of us can follow that rule, others, obviously has a more difficult time with it and why I choose not to talk to certain people at times here. I’m certainly not perfect, but I don’t attack anyone, directly or indirectly, but then acts indignant when people call them out on it. It’s so immature. And I aldo don’t make little smug remarks in my posts that’s obviously directed at others because I’m older than 12 years so I just keep scrolling. And because I always remind myself we’re just discussing TV shows. It’s fictional entertainment. NONE of it matters, none. We love it, but end of the day that’s all it is and some people seem to forget that at times and I mean that ALL over the internet lol. It’s not exclusive to this site.

People are going to have an opinion about them. Some will be harsh, but as long as no one is attacking you for HAVING your opinion, then you have to respect others for theirs. Please DISAGREE, but stop taking everything so damn personally when it has nothing to do with you. Nothing. Another thing people sometimes forget, it’s not about you or anyone here. No one is trying to hurt your feelings, really, they are simply giving their thoughts about a TV show.

But as I said, it’s probably easier said than done for some people and why I wish we had an ignore button.

I’m speaking in GENERAL TERMS here but I used to have some beef with another guy on another board a few years back. In GENERAL TERMS this person who I’m obviously not referring to anyone specifically on this board but iwe clashed a lot and mostly through personalities which actually goes to the point of all this.

But this is biggest irony about this exchange and what was said about me above, the guy is not wrong at all! 🤣🤣🤣

Everything he said about me is completely true. I am childish and immature. Because message boards to me is like being in a holideck, NO ONE SHOULD TAKE ME SERIOUSLY! And I’m shocked when some people actually do! 😂

That’s why I use emojis, to let people know I’m being a dumb idiot. I’m stating my opinion but it’s exaggerated because like you said it’s just fiction and I’m just riffing. I really do think Georgiou is an AWFUL character but she’s just a character. She doesn’t exist so I don’t care about being really really mean to her because no one is hurting her feelings when people call her Space Nazi. She’s not real.

And the biggest irony is if you called her that she will probably take it as a compliment. 😂🙄

That’s why I wasn’t angry over it because if you’re if taking ANYTHING I say that seriously then clearly I’m something wrong. 😂

I took issue being attacked, but everything said was true lol.

That’s why I see if I offended someone as I obviously did I want them to know I’m just clowning around most of the time. Please don’t overthink anything I’m saying. I’m harsh for sure but it’s exaggerated. I don’t think Kurtzman is the worst guy on the planet who should be locked up for war crimes against Star Trek. Overall he’s fine. When I don’t like some things I say it but I don’t really think he’s awful or anything. I’m just going off to be silly most of the time.

Overall while I have my issues with NuTrek it’s better than NoTrek… unless we’re including Discovery! 😁

See that’s just me being a moron again. Just silly jokes. I don’t mean it! But it is an awful show, I definitely mean that lol.

But you’re right, some people in GENERAL TERMS are more sensitive and you have take that into account. But most people get I’m just being silly and overdramatic.

I don’t care for example if they actually make this show or not. And if they do, I’ll give it a chance!
I always say that because I mean it. I thought I was going to loathe LDS and it was the opposite so you never know. And if it sucks then, I’ll watch my TNG, DS9, LDS,, VOY and SNW reruns instead. There is more than enough Trek to go around. It’s not that serious! 😎

And I can take it down a notch.

Yeah I think most people get you’re goofing off. I laugh every time I read a post from you. But as I said, some people either don’t get the joke or too sensitive to handle it either way. But that’s not YOUR problem, you’re just expressing your opinion like we are all. No one should be attacked over it. And it sounds like this has been an issue for you on another board…speaking in general terms.

It’s been an issue for a lot of people here for years too….speaking in general terms of course. ;)

Anyway, without an ignore button, you just have to find the people you can have a rational conversation with and tolerate the rest. Believe when I say I tried lol. But as you say, some people you’re just not going to gel with and it just more work than it should be to discuss a TV show. This is suppose to be fun! ;)

Exactly! Yeah bro I’m just having fun! 😃

Like when I call Georgiou Adolf, it’s a silly nickname that’s it. She doesn’t have to be a direct comparison to Hitler the point is I think she just as awful as he is, period. I’m pretty sure if you lived under her rule they wouldn’t be trying to split hairs about it. This chick has EATEN HER OWN SLAVES. And people are offended because we call her Space Hitler? 😜

Yeah it is a little unfair to compare her to Hitler because even that guy never owned slaves and also ate them too. It’s hilarious bro. The problem is we don’t know any past slave owners who used to eat them too. If someone does know a past slave owner in history who also ate one weekly, please give me a name and I’ll start calling her that name instead to be less ‘gross’!.😂🙄

Seriously give me a break! This woman has done things that is even lower than the most vile humans in history has done and people want to feel offended over silly nicknames??? She should be standing trial for all her disgusting war crimes, not getting her own TV show.

And I have silly nicknames for many characters I both like or don’t like such as Hot Mess Rafi, Fratboy Kirk, Agnes the boyfriend murderer, Dad Pike, Manho Riker, Emo Spock, Forever Harry, Eye roll Uhura, T’Elanna, Sisko’s pimp hand and on and on.

It’s just silly and truly bad names but I always laugh! 🤣

Sorry, I’ll break the rule just once with Tiger2’s response to you because his response is EXACTLY my approach. In his response to you, he is using the terms, “some people,” “others,” etc — too keep it general. Now, I could act oversensitive and tell him, “hey I know you must be talking about me here even though we agreed to not talk” or “you are using TG1701 as a proxy to address me since we agreed to not converse,” but I am actually perfectly fine with Tiger2 keeping this general enough in his response to you so that’s it’s clear he’s not directly responding to me.

That’s how you do it — you don’t address the person directly and you write make it clear by using the right terms so as to keep you comments in general terms that do not directly refer to that person. His example here is spot-on — that’s the way you do it.

That’s it…have a good evening.

Bro all I’m saying is don’t make it so personal! 🤣

Any 10 year old can read that post and know you were talking about me. Dude I would’ve responded IF I knew it was you because frankly I know this is how you operate. And I just ignore it. I only responded because I felt bad lol. Irony.

Look we’re never going to get along obviously. And I’ll be even more honest with you. If I knew you were in this site I would’ve never posted on it . Seriously. You kind of put me through a lot lol. And I know my opinions gives indigestion too.

You’re a good guy but you’re a little toxic. I’m just being honest. That opinion shouldn’t be a huge surprise considering lol. I think you seem to have problems with a few people in the past I’m guessing.

Anyway I didn’t come here to make waves with you man. I just came to talk about Star Trek. You can definitely disagree with me. It would just be nice if you a little less personal about it. If you can’t OK, I’ll live.

The irony is I keep saying I’m done posting here because I don’t like the system but I keep being pulled back in. Take it easy! 😎

Oops I mean I wouldn’t have responded if I knew it was you!

Well said. I am eagerly awaiting this series, and we need something new like this — I’d much rather have then then a re-tread Janeway or a re-tread Seven Series…lol

I can see what they have to wait until a break in her schedule in order to get her in the show. Personally as long as the show gets made i don’t mind the wait i have a feeling a S31 show will do fantastic.

Over the last few years, I’ve seen a small group of fans on some Trek fan web sites hate on this show concept, use the childish, “Space Hitler” putdown, and just ramble on and on about how the series will never be made because they just somehow know better than P+ and Kurtzman. LOL — I don’t get that childish negativity. I do think we will get this series when her schedule clears from the huge late career run she is currently on. And of course for freaking Michelle Yeoh, you give here all the time she needs…like, duh!

The “childish negativity” is because the character she portrayed was a cliched, mustache-twirling villain who literally hissed at people.

I get that Yeoh has fun hamming it up to play her — a lot of Trek actors who get to do a mirror universe episode do. That doesn’t mean it’s advisable to create an entire series around it.

I agree with fgd2000’s comment on this.

She hissed at Burnham ONCE and clearly as a joke in response to a threat. Yet people are fixated on the idea she does this regularly.

People making a lot of noise. Just ignore them and I think the professionals like Kurzzman do too.
I think Mirror Georgiou has actually grown quite a bit in Discovery Beyond just the mustache twirling villain. This was very apparent in Terra Firma. Even upon her initially appearance she was all but two dimensional. The character played a role in a brutal society, but clearly cared for both the mirror and prime Burnham although she opted not to show it very much.
I think Discovery seasons 2 and 3 actually perfectly set up a Section 31 show: Ash Tyler vowed to make the organization more accountable and transparent, while Georgiou discovers her firm belief in the ideals of Starfleet. Since we know that Section 31 will eventually become actually far more shady and outside-the-system and adopt a total “ends justify (any) means” mentality (which is very much a Georgiou thing to adopt), trajectory of This new show seems very obvious, but also leaves a lot of room for filling it up with espionage stories and a lot of thematic material for moral dilemmas.

If Kurtzman actually ignored people’s complaints the Section 31 show probably would’ve been here years ago now. And the Discovery Klingons wouldn’t have completely disappeared for 3 years now lol.

It’s very simple, they talked about the Section 31 show constantly for a full year and a half when it was announce. They were talking about creating a writers room, hired the show runners, planned to start shooting the show in 2020, etc. You can find every time Kurtzman talked about it on this site.

But once SNW got approved, ALL of that talk went away and they never talked about anything concrete about the show since. The show runners bailed and went to Netflix for a new show and Yeoh just went on to do other things since. There hasn’t been a single major update about the show since 2020. You have to admit, it’s a little weird right? Especially for the first announced show after Discovery.

There is a good chance that Strange New Worlds was indeed fast tracked and took priority over the Section 31 show around 2020.
That does not necessarily mean that the Section 31 show is dead.
You may have noticed that Paramount+ executives have shifted from wanting more Trek shows to run in parallel to saying that any new show will probably replace one of the current shows.
So Section 31 may simply be on hold until a spot “frees up” in the lineup.
That would explain why there has been no concrete development while they still say the show may come.
Allegedly, they have several shows in development, so there may be an internal competition about which one will get made first when a spot opens up.
With Michelle Yeoh’s star rising, the Section 31 show could climb up in priority in that internal competition.
If season 3 of Picard also sets up a potential spinoff show they could wait for audience reception to that spinoff idea before deciding which show will come next.

Yes I agree with all of this; especially SNW replacing it in the roster. And I never said or claimed the show was dead. But it’s pretty obvious they been dragging their feet with the show for a long time because they can read the room. It’s very very obvious from the time the show was announced to right now lol that there is no real enthusiasm or appetite for this show the same way it was for Picard or SNW. And that fans are very split on Georgiou as a character. A character they spent 3 seasons with already and still loathe by a lot of people, including me! They have a fickle fanbase and they know that. And they can gauge what interests fans or not when they run this stuff in the public sphere and see the reactions and feedback. It’s probably why the Khan show (ugh) never happened and went from a show to a podcast thing.

But that doesn’t mean the show can’t be a success obviously or it won’t be. And maybe they went back to the drawing board and changed it up. I want to make this clear, obviously they still believe in the show and wants to make it. That’s seems clear. But it’s obviously not a slam dunk it will happen either for probably a range of reasons. It could but as we been on this merry go round with all those useless Star Trek movie announcements for years now, nothing is guaranteed until they actually just make the show. Until then, it’s just more PR white noise.

This is a show that, as I far as I know, doesn’t even have a show runner after the last two bailed over a year ago and can’t be stated enough it’s been ‘in development’ for four years now. That says it all to me. I think you read my posts enough to know I try to be fair and even handed, but it’s also pretty easy to smell BS lol. I could be completely wrong. I was the person who was saying a show WAS happening up until 2 years ago lol.

Now ALL that said, maybe they will decide this is the show they want to do, actually WORK OUT a schedule with Yeoh to commit and start developing it.

Again it’s comical to somehow pretend a huge corporation that is trying to build a library of shows and has a strategic plan to do that is just going to sit around and wait for an actress to fit them in her schedule at her convenience as she goes around making other shows and movies for years on end after she supposedly signed a contract to do the show.

Of course things happen and there could be other commitments on both sides. But I’ll say it once again, if they decided they wanted this show on ASAP, they would’ve worked something out with her literally years ago by now. It’s beyond silly to suggest otherwise. They clearly are not serious about green lighting the show yet and Yeoh just went on to do other things. This is not rocket science.

But we’ll see. Maybe it will be the next show to get on the air as you suggest. Again, I will believe that when they go beyond ‘we’re working on it’ as they been saying since 2020.

The hilarious thing is the both SNW and Section 31 are spinoffs of the show that some fans never stop complaining about — Discovery.

DSC is basically the Trek franchise’s Law and Order, SNW is Law and Order SVU, and perhaps Section 31 will be the Law and Order Criminal Intent.

DSC is the underappreciated master series of the Kurtzman era.

I think Mirror Georgiou has actually grown quite a bit in Discovery Beyond just the mustache twirling villain. This was very apparent in Terra Firma. 

Exactly!

This is the Answer.

No Christopher. Go back on this very site and read Michelle’s quotes within the last 60 days from various articles.

She is waiting for S31 to make some movement. She has said specifically that she is waiting for Alex to keep his promise to her about this show and get it moving.

Because Alex & P+ can’t get their act together with S31 (just like P+ and JJ can’t get their act together and finally make JJ-Trek Movie #4, now 7 years after Star Trek Beyond)… Michelle is filling her dance card with other things because Trek is crickets on S31.

This is not about Michelle’s schedule. This is either an intentional decision to slow-walk S31… or it’s just P+ incompetence.

I have already said this today in another thread on this site but –>>

Michelle Yeoh is the biggest Asian female star on the planet. She is in high demand for a good reason. Yet she keeps saying she wants to do more Trek and S31. She has been promised S31 by Alex and has been waiting for years now. 
Michelle can now get into any franchise she wants to be in. But the one she wants to be in (S31) will not get her show into production. 

It is not a good look for Alex / P+ / Trek. 

It’s almost like Harry Kim begging for a promotion and not getting one – ever. 

But, Patrick Stewart can get a bad show done (and he didn’t even want to do PICARD in the beginning. They had to convince him and throw more money at him I suppose.). SNW can go from non-existent to Season 2 in a heartbeat. New animated shows can be added. But Michelle’s show takes years. 

Honestly, all that is needed is for a GREAT set of writers to have 30-60 days on S31 to get the story done, and Michelle’s show could be ready for production. Put the Prodigy writers on it and get this thing going.
 
It’s so embarrassing that Michelle is still waiting for this.

It’s 100X embarrassing that Alex and P+ get away with treating the biggest Asian star on the planet this way.

It’s a bad look.

What a complete load of BS. Almost nothing you wrote her has in fact been said by Yeoh. But OK, if you are really claiming this, please provide the citations/quotes where she said any of this. An no, quoting yourself in italics to give the impression it’s reported information is not credible.

Conjecture / all made up

Michelle Yeoh Named Time’s Icon Of 2022… As She Still Awaits That Star Trek Section 31 Show| DECEMBER 7, 2022 | BY: Anthony Pascale

For her part, Yeoh has always spoken glowingly about her time with
Star Trek and continues to express optimism about returning for the Section 31 show. Earlier this year she told EW :

I hope, as Alex [Kurtzman] has promised, we are going to do Section 31. Section 31 is that [Star Trek: Discovery] universe but different. It’s wilder. It’s like Mission: Impossible meets Guardians of the Galaxy in space.

And the list goes on—so if Paramount+ really wants a Michelle Yeoh Star Trek show by 2024 (after Picard wraps up), they should act fast.

I love Mission Impossible! That does sound like fun!

Trekmovie

Dec 7 2022

Article by Anthony Pascale
TITLE
Michelle Yeoh Named Time’s Icon of 2022 … As She Still Awaits That Star Trek Section 31 Show

Article says
For her part, Yeoh has always spoken glowingly about her time with Star Trek and continues to express optimism about returning for the Section 31 show. Earlier this year she told EW:

Michelle quote… I hope, as Alex [Kurtzman] has promised, we are going to do Section 31. Section 31 is that [Star Trek: Discovery] universe but different. It’s wilder. It’s like Mission: Impossible meets Guardians of the Galaxy in space.

Article says
And the list goes on—so if Paramount+ really wants a Michelle Yeoh Star Trek show by 2024 (after Picard wraps up), they should act fast.

You are misconstruing a little quip that she said by claiming that she thinks Kurtzman can’t “get his shit together” as the reason she can’t do the series yet. That’s a huge extrapolation that is not supported by anything else she or Kurtzman has said in the last three years.

Nope.

But thanks for your kindness.

You’re absolutely right to torpedo this ridiculous notion.

It’s quite a bold statement for somebody to claim that Alex Kurtzman cannot get his shit together when he has been responsible for overseeing a franchise and has had a hand in creating or commission FIVE series of said franchise since 2017. I thought we had moved past the “KurTZmaN iS a hACk!” rubbish but apparently not.

Yeah, that was WAY out there, lol

Congrats to Michelle Yeoh on her win and i hope the S31 show goes ahead. It’s the type of Star Trek show i would love to see get made.

Most definitely. Here is what I would like to see for the next two series:

2023/24 — Section 31

2024/25 — TOS Continues (with the new Kirk, stories starting in Year 4 of the 5 year mission)

2025/26 — DS9: The Next Generation

Now this is a schedule I’d love to see!

THANKS !!!

Michelle Yeoh isn`t the problem. Its section 31. Section 31 is the incarnation of all not Starfleet, not Star Trek. So doing a section31 show seems to be a opener to do a non Star Trek show. They always wanted to discard some star trek rules to get new audiences. So I am very cautious about a section31 show.
I would love to see Yeoh in some sort of other star trek show as a main character.

There’s plenty of potential to do shows that are set in the Star Trek universe, but not necessarily “Star Trek” in the traditional sense. I personally thought Section 31 sounds more like a Star Trek series than a series about the Eugenics Wars, Time of Awakening or maybe even a show set in Turkana City that features the fall of the colony or it’s degradation as a society. The thing is, despite those shows not really being traditional Trek, I could still picture something like that coming out and, if done right, could even be good. It doesn’t have to BE Star Trek to be set in the same universe, nor does it have to be Star Trek in order to be good.

My thing is, I’m not interested in a show with that character particularly and I’m more interested in seeing a show about the Temporal Agents than Section 31.

What is Tukana City?

I ask this not (entirely) for the sake of trivia, but because the idea of developing an entire series based around the answer to a Star Trek trivia question sounds…inadvisable. How about a series centered on the combination to Kirk’s safe?

Part of the problem is these shows with increasingly complicated premises. TOS, TNG, and ENT all had a very simple premise: “these are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.”

The only one of the lot that was dramatically successful and yet had a complicated premise was DS9. And that was because it was more of a spinoff than the marquee series, so it could find a niche.

Turkana City was the capital of Turkana IV, the homeworld of Tasha Yar. Anyway I don’t see it as a complicated plot. I mean if it is written correctly, it could be good. Obviously I’m the sort of guy that believes that the characters are the most important thing, the story is really secondary to me. If you don’t care about the characters, or at least have some feelings for them, then certain scenes that are that are supposed to make you cry are unearned. Basically like any emotional scene in DISCO is pretty much unearned in my opinion.

I wouldn’t go that far. Before DS9 Bajor would have been little more than a trivia answer to a TNG question.

I for one think S31 is perfectly star trek. It’s a perfect critique of our modern political landscape, capable of delving into serious social issues. It all hinges on how it’s done. I am not cautious at all. Just do it, and we can judge it after it premieres.

100% agree. I hope it’s the next Kurtzman series that we get.

Our modern political landscape entails a secret police headed by a genocidal villain?

“Our modern political landscape entails a secret police headed by a genocidal villain?”

If you think that’s how allegory and metaphor work, you shouldn’t be watching science fiction.

I agree… I honestly think it fits into the Star Trek universe, like yeah, SNW is much more hopeful and optimistic — but, to quote DS9, “it’s easy to be a saint in paradise” — hope, optimism, and holding out an olive branch is more meaningful when it’s a difficult choice to make.

And I think you’re absolutely right, S31 could be a perfect critique of our current political climate… it fits perfectly into how allegorical Star Trek can be, S31 can be an example of how morals and ideals can be corrupted, yet we put so much faith in our belief that they wouldn’t be.

It’s not about whether it matches our modern landscape for me. Its about the fact that it isn’t based on the section 31 from DS9 which is the organization in hiding. It’s based on Discovery’s S31 which is like their own division of Starfleet with their own badges and ships and everything and everyone knows about them.

Well, frankly, that’s too narrow a view. If they can come up with a good idea, and tell good stories, I really don’t care. If you do, I feel very very sorry for you.

Well I have to shrug off and accept Lower Decks and I think it’s barely Star Trek, so some fans who don’t like the Section 31 concept as Star Trek will just have to take the same mention approach and deal with it. IDIC.

Fair enough.

More to the point, the third season of Discovery set formerly MU Georgiou on a significant part of transformation and tested her by sending her back to her point of origin.

Her journey isn’t at its end, and there’s so many times and places this show could go to.

I’m also getting tired of the voices in the fandom who seem to be seeking to gatekeep this show out of existence with their negativity.

In my opinion, gatekeeping is perfectly reasonable when considering an idea fundamentally in opposition to Trek ideals. I wouldn’t want Star Wars type Jedi/fantasy-based/light-side/dark-side elements in Trek and would argue against them. So too will I argue against putting something like Discovery’s previous approach to Section 31 in Trek.

Discovery generally presented Section 31 as a “valid”, open, and ongoing part of Starfleet, than many officers accepted and were even impressed by. I find it completely antithetical to Star Trek ideals (as was argued in the original DS9 episodes) and hope that nothing like it continues as the focus of a new Trek series. That said, if CBS/Kurtzman come out with a premise for the show that is all about how wrong the organization is and how the show’s main characters are working to bring it down/change it utterly, then I would be on board for that approach. [Like how in the show Alias, Sydney worked to bring down SD-6.] Given their track record with S31 and Mirror Georgiou (and other questionable elements from DIS S1-3), I don’t have a lot of hope for that kind of about-face.

Gatekeeping is a tactic used by people who are not fully confident in their own opinions.

S31 is totally Starfleet. They would be no Starfleet without S31.

Funnily enough, we had what, 13 full seasons of Star Trek before Section 31 was even mentioned?

More like 20 (if you count parallel seasons of Voyager and DS9). Let’s rephrase that: we’ve had 32 years of Star Trek until it was mentioned. And it has easily slipped into the universe as a main staple just as much as Klingons, Borg, Cardassians and Kelpians.

I could say nearly the same thing about the NX-01, Captain Archer and crew…especially given the predecessor Enterprise was shown in TMP as the XCV-330.

Whoops! lol

The point is, Starfleet isn’t supposed to know that.

I’m not cautious, I’m outright unintreasted, Section 31 is a occasional bad guy, not something to lead it’s own show.

This is exactly how I feel about it. I would love Yeoh in Trek. She’s a great talent and a rising star, both of which are great for Trek. But S31 is the wrong vehicle.

Quality won’t matter (in terms of Trek accuracy) if they get Golden Globe winning actress in it. The $$$$$ will be all that counts

…my trepidation exactly. I would appreciate it if the showrunners gave this idea a pass.

It really is hilarious how narrow minded and judgmental you are! Amazing! Keep it up, we love you for your hatred of anything that doesn’t mean your singular, narrow definition of Trek.

It’s hilarious how some of the same people who wet their pants over the Lower Decks sitcom act like such serious Stark Trek critics when the Section 31 series is brought up. Can anyone say: hypocrite! LOL

Danpaine is not a ‘hater’ he’s one of the most respected posters here. Yeah he doesn’t want the show, it’s not exactly a minority opinion looking around here, right? It’s divisive for a reason. And he hasn’t attacked anyone over it for disagreeing with him either like you just did.

Much of NuTrek is divisive. There is something to be said against this atomizing plan of throwing multiple muddy show concepts against a wall and seeing which one sticks.

I think it’s quite healthy. The franchise can’t do the same thing over and over again. Look at Star Wars: they are telling the same Story over and over and while I Like those shows and have a lot of love for the people at Lucasfilm, Star Wars currently feels a bit stale to me. Meanwhile every new Star Trek show feels fresh and different and it feels like anything can happen. You don’t have to like everything, I actually am not at all happy about Picard and find some of the dialogue in Discovery really cringeworthy, but Star Trek feels more alive and vibrant than in a long time.

You call it what you like, but every new Trek show has plenty of fans, even if they’re not all the same fans.

I’ve been on record: I don’t watch DSC and only watch LDS a little bit here and there. I am not in love with Picard, but enjoy it. I adore SNW and Prodigy.

But it’s hard to deny each of these shows has a healthy fanbase. Just because you or I don’t like them doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be. What a terrible world you want to live in, where only the things you want get to exist.

Thanks, Tiger. I have no idea where that came from.

No worries! But yeah, sadly, this is all too common on message boards and dealing with certain personalities.

Never called him a hater. I certainly have plenty of respect for him. But his narrow-minded views? I love it! So much fun.

“Keep it up, we love you for your hatred of anything that doesn’t mean your singular, narrow definition of Trek.”

You just called him a hater and insulted him at the same time. All because he said he doesn’t want this show which last time I looked around here Danpaine is not alone in that feeling lol. But for some reason you attacked him personally over it. And now you want to be the one to feel slighted when you’re called out on it. You just gotta love the internet. This is why we need ignore buttons.

Yeah, that’s me – narrow minded, singular and judgmental. I’ve been watching Trek, all of it, for over 50 years, and have enjoyed pretty much 85% of it. I, like any fan, have the right to say what I’m not interested in seeing. Respectfully, you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, Alpha. Pick on someone else, I don’t engage in your brand of discourse.

Hey Danpaine,

I should mention that my response to AlphaPredator above was intended as a general comment, and was not intended to be specific to your original comment in this thread that AlphaPredator jumped on.

I support your right to your opinions and I enjoy reading your posts.

Many thanks, UpperDecks! You too.

I always laugh when the guy who is the hateful critic decides the other guy is the one in the bad mood. Comedy gold, my friend!

OTOH, if the quality isn’t there, why will Yeoh stay?

I just want more than 2 episodes of Prime Georgiou. :( She was funny, confident, experienced, trusted, and beloved by her crew. All the ideals Trek stands for. I’m a big fan of every show that’s been produced and I would surely be entertained by a S31 show as well but it would be the one I have the most misgivings about initially.

Michelle Yeoh has said she wouldn’t find it interesting to play Prime Georgiou on a regular basis.

But in a multiverse show, it’s always possible to have other instances of Georgiou show up on occasion.

I liked Michelle Yeoh, but I don’t want a “Section 31” show. If they just called it something different I’d be ok with it. Just don’t say “Section 31” and we are good.

A spy series called “Starfleet Intelligence” is something I’d check out. “Section 31” not so much, especially if it’s the S31 we saw in Discovery.

I’ve always hoped for a Starfleet Intelligence show. Section 31 could occasionally appear as a sort-of antagonist, sort-of ally.

You could have a whole bunch of series, or miniseries or seasons or streamed movies, similarly focusing on units, like “Starfleet Marines” or “Starfleet Medical” or “Starfleet Police” or even “Starfleet CIS” or “Starfleet JAG”.

I’d be cool with that, particularly Starfleet Medical.

For a long time I thought it would be cool to have a medical series similar to the McCoy: Frontier Doctor comic that IDW released many moons ago. You know, get Karl Urban in there making house calls to various ships and planets. It’d be a lot of fun, I think. Like “All Creatures Great and Small” in SPACE!

I remember there being a short lived series called “Mercy Point” which basically had the concept of ER in space that I think Trek could do very effectively. But I am not too sure how Michelle Yeoh could be involved in such a concept. Does she decide to be a doctor all of a sudden?

I wasn’t thinking of Michelle Yeoh, rather Karl Urban for the medical series. Yet another Trek series, ha.

This show is starting to feel like a punchline like the movies have become at this point. It’s not a shock why people are cynical over these vague announcements. They announced the show four years ago and developed four other shows since and it’s still nothing beyond ‘we’re still working on it’, for probably a few more years.

But Rian Johnson is definitely getting his Star Wars trilogy! Lol

The entertainment industry, especially Hollywood, has an enormous problem with ‘losing face’

It’s called ego and unfortunately I think most of humanities problems come from this.

Yeah, sadly I have to agree.

On top of the stalling, P+ has other problems. A global media star who seems to really want to do more Star Trek, but her mirror character is so offensive to so many legacy fans, despite the writers’ attempt to redeem her.

To top it off, over the past 4 yrs, Michelle Yeoh’s global star power, especially overseas, has continued to grow. So much so, she has probabaly outgrown the acting payroll budget for a streaming TV show!

What can they do? Let’s say they find the budget needed to pay Georgiou, too bad they can’t somehow reinvent the prime universe character of Captain Georgiou and make her the star of a new time travel/S31/Guardian show!

A global media star who seems to really want to do more Star Trek, but her mirror character is so offensive to so many legacy fans, despite the writers’ attempt to redeem her.

This was entirely predictable.

Killing off Capt. Georgiou was an epic mistake topped only by lobbing a bridge Capt. Kirk.

HA! I just said this to you above!

Meh. This is just not a show we need, and the general audience reaction has always been lukewarm to it at best.

It’s not what Trek is about, which I might be ok with. But today’s producers don’t even understand what Section 31 is about. DS9 did it brilliantly. Every attempt to shoehorn Section 31 in to a story since has been amateurish fanboy silliness.

agreed. The over arching response to this idea has long been “not intreasted”. Hell it’s been so long since anything got mentioned about it, I assume SOMEONE at CBS/Parmount clued in that “nobody wants this”

Love, Yeoh. Even love the character in Discovery. I’m particularly curmudgeonly toward the idea of a Section 31 show and hope it doesn’t happen.

“In development” is a pretty empty phrase.

It still seems strange to me that ST languishes while Paramount has no issue greenlighting innumerable Yellowstone spinoffs and, as of the other day, a Dungeons & Dragons series for Paramount+.

With four or five Trek shows going on, P+ may well feel they’ve gotten as many subs as they’re going to from people interested in the franchise. I’m hoping we’ll at least get a 25th century show to replace PIC, though.

Given the cash crunch that all streamers are facing, I’d wager that Paramount+ will evaluate each existing show on a case-by-case while they are being streamed and determine renewals based on whatever metrics they deem indicate success. I’m not sure how this would affect completely new shows, though.

Paramount+ isn’t on the same model as WB or Netflix.

Unlike them, it makes the overwhelming majority of the content it streams.

It also has had a more strategic, franchise focused approach and hasn’t greenlit things in a scattershot hoping one will be the next Squid Games.

WB’s total write-offs this year amounted to many shows, but they’ve represented just a few percent of its views.

Whatever the actual numbers, all the live action Trek shows on Paramount+ are cracking the top ten streaming originals when they are running. It’s not even a conversation.

Taylor Sheridan is notoriously prolific though and there’s no shortage of big stars interested in working with him. If he is cranking out scripts like a machine to sequels to the most popular show on TV and the likes of Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren are up for it, then that’s an easy call, even at $20 million+ an episode.

Belts are tightening at streamers in general now though and greenlighting another Star Trek show only because it has a popular star attached isn’t the soundest decision if the creative isn’t there. Also, P+ isn’t leaning on Trek as hard as it did even just a year ago.

It’s almost like what happened with UPN over 20 years ago – they were propped up by Voyager, which stood head and shoulders above rthe rest of the lineup for years. But eventually they found WWE Smackdown!, America’s Next Top Model and Buffy, so Star Trek was a stepping stone to help them diversify. That said, the goal always seemed to be to have enough Star Trek show on P+ to have new content most weeks out of the year. With Picard ending, that likely leaves at least 2 months out of 2024 without a Trek show on the air.

I long for the day when ST attracts talent like Ford and Mirren, but I’m not holding my breath.

Back in the day, I had thought one way forward after “All Good Things” was for Helen Mirren to take over from Patrick Stewart as captain of the Enterprise.

Rotate the rest of the crew to new assignments, except Riker, who is passed over for promotion due to the events of “The Pegasus” and therefore has an antagonistic relationship with the new captain.

I would love to see a Michelle Yeoh lead a Section 31 spy thriller sort of show, assuming they get some clever writers. I just want to see more of Michelle Yeoh and less of the Empress. I love Captain Georgiou, but once she turned mustache twirling villain I didn’t care for it. Section 31 just needs to start with a soft reboot of the character and premise, which I’m fine with. Whatever it takes to make a good show.

I know a lot of people have no interest in the show because of the main character, among other reasons, but I say give it a chance. We don’t have a gritty DS9 like show for this generation yet, maybe this is it. Some of the same things were said about DS9 are being said about this show too. And I would think that Michelle Yeoh would be able to throw her weight around MUCH more now and have some real input on the series and the characterization. If that ends up being the case, that would be REALLY exciting personally.

I think Discovery does have that grittier DS9 style in its own way, but I agree, I think it would be exciting to see this show. Strange News Worlds is a great back to basics show, but you can’t go back to basics every time. Eventually a franchise has to have a new idea.

I think everybody wants to do it but like ST4, it is a business and there’s a lot of scheduling to work out.

“but you can’t go back to basics every time. Eventually a franchise has to have a new idea”

Why? Doctor Who has done it for 60 years now. Just the Doctor, the TARDIS and some companions travelling time and space… Same would work for the Starship Enterprise and her ongoing mission.

Yeah, they did Torchwood and Class, but you can easily ignore these shows if you just want to stick to the premise. And that original premise is what interests me the most in either franchise…

.

I think the point is the pendulum swings both ways and you have to do different kinds of storytelling to appeal to as many fans as possible.

We don’t have a gritty DS9 like show for this generation yet

Ah, how soon we forget Capt. Lorca, and the likes of Cmdr. Landry and Lt. Ash Tyler.

The character is definitely divisive, but that’s the thing, while there are Trekkies who are skeptical or dislike the character, there are also fans (and more general audiences) who absolutely adore the character.

There is literally a tea room in Portland that is named after Mirror Georgiou, I’m not even joking, just look up “Emperor Georgiou’s Tea Room”.

I’m sorry but Discovery tried hard to be a “gritty DS9” story, it tried so friggen hard it was laughable, we have more attempts at “gritty dark” story telling then we do TRADTIONAL trek.

That’s the entire irony about Star Trek today. They tried that with both Discovery and Picard in their first seasons and fans basically rejected it. Its why we have SNW now, season 3 of Picard sounds like its season 8 of TNG and Discovery has turned away from being a BSG type show to a Lifetime movie type show, just in space.

It’s really a shock they even still want to make a S31 given what fans have responded to in the last few years with LDS, SNW and PRO, which is basically apple pie Star Trek again. Just comfort food. Well LDS did show an orgy in one episode so maybe not AS apple pie on that show lol.

But I could be TOTALLY wrong, but I don’t know if we are going to see stuff like Romulan incest siblings, genocidal maniacs eating sentient species, Klingon nipples or dropping the F bomb like Samuel L. Jackson joined the show. I just think the whole being ‘edgy’ for edgy sake is done, at least currently.

The thing is Tiger2, in season 3 of Discovery, the writers clearly set Georgiou on a path where she not only accepted that the values and behaviour of the Terran Empire were ultimately self-destructive, she tried to change that.

So, we’re not talking about an S31 show that is ‘edgy for the sake of being edgy’.

That mid 2010s fad for distopian is in the past for Trek, but there’s still an audience that finds grim-dark Warhammer 40k stuff ‘more real’ and needs to be brought along to more aspirational, optimistic Trek values. We see that in other franchises like DC (where Batman is preeminent and Superman is viewed as dated).

Like Prodigy’s journey from SW aesthetics to Trek, it seems to me that Georgiou’s story could provide the journey for new viewers and Kelvin fans who want more action-adventure and who remained to be convinced that goodness is possible.

No, I don’t think it will be. I even said that in another post somewhere. Fans already rejected the dreary edgy stuff with first seasons of Discovery and Picard and probably why shows like LDS and SNW are bigger hits. For the record I don’t mind Trek being more edgy, it just didn’t work in Discovery IMO. It felt like they were trying too hard and put a lot of fans off.

I’m still very skeptical this show will ever see the light of day but if it does, it will probably be more actiony adventure and just more fun. :)

Star Trek IV has been in development too for years… Hopefully this isn’t more Paramount hype.

Yes please commenters, tell us once again that you don’t want a S31 show. We haven’t seen you say that over and over for years! We definitely need to hear your same opinions again and again! We definitely care, it’s terribly important.

Because maybe JUST MAYBE if you say it ONE MORE TIME, Paramount won’t make the show just because YOU don’t want it!

I always love it when three guys here agree on something, and then decide paramount should listen to them, the authority on all fandom.

This show could get made, it could get dropped, but I’ll keep an open mind. Wife would watch it for sure. She loves Yeoh. She represents a demo who, frankly, wouldn’t be caught dead arguing with the like of us here. lol

I always love it when three guys here agree on something, and then decide paramount should listen to them, the authority on all fandom.

Yeah, it’s f’ing hilarious. And on topic, I’ve seem a subset of fans across numerous Trek fan sites take the know-it-all approach that the show will never be made, make “Space Hitler” insults, and contradict the reports we get on the show…like they know what P+ is going to do…lol

PS: I mean right in this thread someone posted this clown show comment: “Just end the space Hitler show idea already.” Sigh!

For the record I love Section 31 and I was originally excited about the show when it was announced. I was all for it.

And then I saw what they did with the concept on Discovery and it pushed me off to my original excitement. I just didn’t like the portrayal at all and Georgiou was more of a cartoon character. They had two seasons to really make the character more endearing to most fans and it just seem like it never happened.

That’s the irony though,they obviously introduced Section 31 in Discovery because it was meant to introduce her in the group and be a jumping off point into the new show and the reaction was VERY mixed to say the least. Once again, they listened to the fans and gave them the Pike show that wasn’t even a thing until after fans started screaming about it and replaced it with S31 and here we are today.

Now that said I agree, if they make the show, I think people should have an open mind and most probably will. But again I try to be fair and objective about these things and first impressions matter. And both MU Georgiou and Section 31s introduction was just NOT great and just like the Discovery Klingons as well we’ve never heard or seen them again anywhere lol.

If it was the opposite and people asking Kurtzman when is the S31 show coming everywhere the guy went and begging to get it on the air ASAP, we would’ve had the show they supposedly green lit back in 2019. It’s not rocket science why it didn’t air. But maybe it will someday.

So yeah, they are listening. But they keep saying over and over and over again it’s still being made, so we’ll see!

Not only that, but those three guys act like bullies, shouting down anyone who is more tolerant and open-minded. This is why we need a show like Section 31, to show why that mindset is wrong-headed and backwards.

So… are you actually complaining about people posting their opinions on a public website forum? Or maybe you’re one of those who find people disagreeing with you annoying?

If you can’t take differing opinions from yours maybe you need to stay away from public forums whose only reason for being is to have people post… differing opinions, and spare us all your lack of tolerance of other points of vue.

And since you asked and you care to hear it again: Paramount, I don’t want a S31 show. Since I have mentionned this yet another time and since this is my personal desire, I trust you will not make this show.

And thank you AlphaPredator for the advice. Now I’ll rest easy in the knowledge that S31 will not be made, because I have told Paramount not to make it, since this is my desire.

Take a breath. Some folks are broken records. That’s no secret.

Go back to your seat. People have a right to express their opinions and don’t need your approval. Nobody here claims to be the authority on all fandom or trying to tell anyone what to do, least of all Paramount. P-U-B-L-I-C F-O-R-U-M get it?

Nobody’s right have been infringed. You don’t get to pretend you’re fighting for everyone’s rights to share their opinion when you start with “go back to your seat”. So some folks got called out for being repetitive. So what? Don’t be so fragile.

Well he started with “Take a breath”, is that better? Yes people are repetitive, so what? You can’t call out people for stating their opinion, repetitive or not. If AlphaPredator wants to call people out for that, well then I’m calling him out for being a gatekeeper and telling people what they can or can’t write. I’m not fragile. I don’t take BS from bullies.

I don’t mind opinions at all on both sides of this. But I agree that there have been some fans across multiple Trek fan sites that have been proffering sort of know-it-all, condescending statements that come across like they know better than the information we get from P+ that this series is still in the pipeline — that is my issue with those types of comments that I have seen over and over and over by some fans over the last couple of years.

The truth is that those fans are just pulling those types of comments out of their assess…they don’t know better than P+ and Kurtzman.

I do agree with that. But let’s not put everyone that expresses a negative opinion on S31 in that category, and let’s stop ganging up on people because they’re negative on something… For the record I hope they do make S31. Like AlphaPredator said in another post, it has a lot of potential to address current social issues.

Agreed!

That’s where I’m coming from. We’ve been reading the same comments from the same people who have made it clear they don’t want the show and that’s that.

Ok, they don’t have to watch it. That’s fine…. but I’m not sure what they rest of us who are willing to give it a shot are supposed to say at this point.

I heard them. We disagree. What do they want to hear?

I prefer to stand, thanks.

Post away, I have no power of you. I’m sure if someone posts “space hitler” a few more times, the people developing this show will see it your way and cancel it.

Or…. we wait and see. It sounds like it could be fun.

Ok and I’m breathing fine too, thanks. I actually want a S31 show… that wasn’t my point. I don’t like posters here telling other posters what to write… LLAP

We all get a little excited sometimes. No worries.

I also don’t think we should police each other’s thoughts, but there does come a point when the only thing left to say is “I heard you the first time”. That’s all this was.

Agreed. It’s all in the way you say it too. People will get offended online for the littlest thing… Me? no, no not me… I mean other people!

Nobody is telling you or anyone what to write. If you read it that way, that says more about YOU than anything. Feeling insecure, I guess.

I’m sure if someone posts “Space Hitler” a few more times, the people developing this show will see it your way and cancel it.

LOL Yeah, that’s the sort of condescending, immature sort of comment that makes it hard to treat seriously some of the critics of this proposed series…it makes them look petty and foolish

Well, they *are* proposing to make the lead character an absolute dictator who engaged in genocide and cannibalism.

I’m not saying it’s impossible to redeem the character, but it’s a pretty tall order.

And I don’t trust the NuTrek team handle it with the deftness that the DS9 writer’s room did in “Duet,” or even the VOY writer’s room with Krell Moset in “Nothing Human” or the eponymous character in “Jetrel.”

Georgiou is worse than Hitler. I don’t remember him eating people. This woman is disgusting and I have NO qualms saying that. It’s still shocking she was on Discovery for as long as she was.

Again, people like Yeoh and I get when they killed off Georgiou they wanted to find a way to keep her around, but this is just one of the worst characters to do it with, especially like Star Trek UNLESS she’s the villain. And that’s the other problem, they excused everything she did and just kind of thought if she cracked enough jokes and shows she really, really, really care about Burnham, most fans would ignore everything she’s done and just warm up to her.

Apparently not lol. I am at lost why people are not falling over themselves to want to watch a show starring a mass murdering genocidal dictator who owned and ate slaves while sharing the name ‘Star Trek’ in the title? Shocking.

Lol ..gee I wonder why too? Georgiou is a walking war crime, it’s sad she hasn’t been transported into a star yet

For the first time since 2009, Kurtzman is finally making good Star Trek. Last year was some of the best Trek since I became a fan in the 90s. Loved Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds and Prodigy.

And I been reading Picard season 3 is supposed to be good. Like real TNG good. So I’m pumped.

But then we get this nonsense again lol. Been trying to stay positive but hacks still have to be hacks!

If it happens be fun to hate watch at least. That’s probably what half of the viewers will be doing!

Yeah I just think Georgiou was a horrible character and just completely the wrong face to represent Star Trek. Every episode she was in, people complained about her. And the problem isn’t that she’s just an awful person, it’s just they never made her beyond a one dimensional caricature IMO and why people are so divided on her even now.

Take Gul Dukat for example. That guy also committed genocide and a mass murderer as Georgiou did and yet fans LOVED him lol. Why? Because they gave the character real development, nuance, charm and introspection. Gul Dukat is one of the best Trek villains has ever created. I wish we get THAT kind of villain in these movies instead one note uber villains like Nero, Shinzon or Krall, but I digress.

Anyway, the difference was Gul Dukat came out of DS9, which was a well written show. Georgiou came out of Discovery, not a well written show and you can see the difference right there.

So its not that people can’t like Georgiou even with her background, but they did NOTHING with her for 3 seasons other than act smug, throw out swagger, throw out jokes and a lot of kung fu lol. Now I’ll be fair about it and say because she came from the MU, we have to expect those characters to be amped up I guess but you can still show SOME dimension.

Her realizing she no longer wants to eat Saru is not exactly a huge turnaround for a character who is probably responsible for billions of deaths. They had 3 seasons to give her some depth and they didn’t. This is a big reason why there is no excitement for this show because she is not a likable character for many fans and it’s not our fault for that.

If you’re going to present someone this terrible as the lead character in your show called Star Trek, you have to do better to endear the character to the audience.

Now all that said, I’m sure the plan is to do that on the show. So if it airs before I hit 60 and if they do what they should’ve did on Discovery, we’ll see!

👍👍👍👍👍

Totally agree! And I love Gul Dukat too! Guilty! 😁

And I don’t want to hate watch lol. I really want to love the show if it happens. And to make it a glass half full post, it can be a GREAT show! That’s oddly what is frustrating about it, because per usual people are too focused on Georgiou and not enough of what an interesting show it can be on its own.

Like I said, I WANTED the Section 31 show. So I’m still open minded about it because they can take the concept and have a lot of fun.with it I love time travel stories and we know in the books at least Section 31 does a lot of time travel and even universe hopping stuff. I want MORE of this kind of stuff.

If it’s just Space Hitler planning a coup every week then yeah it’s going to bother a lot of people. But if they expand the premise and Section 31 time travels when Wolf 359 happens to save someone important to the timeline or let’s go bigger and actually be involved with the Temporal Cold War, now we got a show!!! We know it’s over in the 31st century, maybe Section 31 is part of it and helped end it! That would be AWESOME! And since the TCW is a multiverse war as well it gives them an excuse to jump to other universes! We can even jump to the Kelvin universe! We can meet Archer again in both universes lol.

And I would prefer it would be post-Picard and set it in the 25th century because, once again, when you’re going forward, you can do whatever you want like the example above. And then that gives them chances to crossover with more legacy characters like Kira, Janeway, Tuvok, Riker, Worf etc. OR even better you can bring on a permanent legacy character to keep people yelling less lol. Easily the best example would be to have Bashir on the show in this new version of time traveling Section 31.

But this is why I know there is no real excitement to this show in the fanbase because no one is talking about the possibilities or what the show could be like. We’re just all arguing and complaining the show even exists lol. But again, MAYBE if they actually, you know, talked about the show that’s been around for four fucking years now, give us some insights like this, they can turn it around quickly. And if Bashier or someone fans love is on the show with her, trust me, they can turn it around fast lol. Because now everyone is talking about Bashier being on the show just like when we discovered Seven was on Picard!! How cool would THAT be???

So there are some real good possibilities out there. They can go crazy with this premise. Wow now I’m excited again lol. We’ll see if the show actually happens first!

Bro, you should be making the show! 😀

That actually sounds ultra fun and cool! Time traveling to put what was right what went wrong in the past and future sounds different and unique. Tying it to TCW would make the show more interesting. We can run into Daniels!

And maybe they accidentally erase Discovery’s entire existence from the timeline! 😁 I’m joking guys I don’t want to get banned again!

But having Bashir on this show?!? Man, I would be so into that! I wouldn’t be hate watching I would be watching watching! They can recruit Bashir and restart the organization after Sloane. But he’ll run it where it would still be a secret but more Starfleet run. He and Adolf will clash every week because she’ll just want to bomb every planet to oblivion and he’ll have to talk her down lol.

And we can see other characters from DS9, VOY, SNW, ENT, TOS, etc. That would be cool.

Bro you made me interested in this show! 🤣 It could even crossover into the Picard spin off show!

But if Kurtzman is involved it will probably be lame. But this actually sounds solid so keep hope alive! 👍

LOL, no it’s David Mack who should be running the show since that’s basically all his ideas anyway. I’m sure you know this, but that’s where the concept of Control came from in one of the S31 novels. Although I’m told by people here and other boards the concept in the book was a bit different…and better.

And I never read them, so I don’t know how involved the time travel gets in the books, but this is an idea fans have been speculating the show would go already. It’s been so long since anyone’s really talked about the show, I forgot about all of that until recently. And on top of that, Discovery already made the idea of S31 and time travel a thing in season 2. If the show took place 200 years later in the 25th century then that technology would be much more advanced.

And Bashir is definitely part of the books, so that would be a great tie like Control was. Now don’t get your hopes up, the show may not be anything like this. But I don’t think it’s going to just be an espionage of the week show. It did sound like it was a lot more ambitious so we’ll see what happens. It would go a long way to get people on board kind of thee same way it helped for people to like Discovery when Pike showed up.

But if they want people to be more invested in the idea of the show, here’s an idea, talk about the damn show!!!!! But again, my guess is it’s probably as much of shitshow as the movies are and they are trying to still figure the direction to go in. I do think it will be a much lighter show than what it was originally suppose to be because I think the heavy stuff we got in Discovery is another big reason people were put off by that show. Maybe not as loose and light as SNW but probably something in the middle.

It would be good if they told us something about it. And I think people would be into it if legacy characters were involved and the premise makes it fun to cross paths with other shows too. But you have a fanbase where half of them seem to just hate the concept of Section 31 and then another half who hates Georgiou as a character and you got vinegar and oil.

It’s not a shocker why this show is having trouble getting green lit and why I’m not holding my breath it’s coming anytime soon. I mean it was suppose to come years ago already lol.

Totally agree. Most people don’t give two shits about this show or Adolf, but like you said if they talked about it more more people will come around. If they put in a character most actually respect like Bashir it would make a difference for sure! 👍

Either way I still got my Lower Decks and Prodigy. I’ll live!

But the Hitler comparison make zero sense to anyone who understands history. Hitler created a monster, evil empire. Georgiou was raised to be like Emperor #7 in a line of succession — she didn’t create a huge evil and the morals she had were based on the empire she was raised in — she really didn’t know any better. That’s a huge difference.

I think people who want a Section 31 show starring Space Hitler should all be put in jail.

I think people who want a Section 31 show starring Space Hitler should all be put in jail.

Your comment is disturbingly hilarious when considering that that a big way the Nazi party came to power was due to Hitler using his powers as Chancellor to jail his critics.

Everyone is welcome to comment! I for one find them and you highly entertaining.

I’m pretty sure opinions are what comment sections are for.

Absolutely! Love to read those same three people spout their laughable opinions and clog up the comments section with the same comment over and over. Highly entertaining!

Wow, good for Michelle. While waiting for the producers to get their act together, she continued to work on other projects and her global profile and star power is bigger than ever. I hazard to guess she would cost a fortune now to recruit for a tv steaming show.

If I were Kurtzman, I would consider doing a one-off Star Trek motion picture featuring Yeoh. This way they could be focused on any number of potential story ideas. Examples, a time traveling Section 31 type clandestine group in future Starfleet responsible for fixing temporal incursions OR maybe an alternate timeline story about Captain Georgiou and the Starship Shenzou, etc. Anything is possible.

What is interesting is Yeoh’s continued interest in doing a Star Trek project. When she was filming here in Toronto, she was very open about how much she liked the cast and crew of Discovery. She also seemed to embrace the city very much.

For someone who could have her pick of global projects to choose from, the fact she still wants to do Star Trek is an opportunity that Paramount CBS cannot afford to waste!

The issue with a one-off movie is that there’s potentially less value in it if streamers are just looking at things from a content perspective. They tend to see it as being more bang for their buck to get 6+ episodes of content from a $60+ million investment rather than 2 hours for $20-200 million, depending on the movie. That’s more viewer engagement on their service, and for more than a month. Paramount also has to protect the theatrical model. Netflix still makes big budget blockbuster-type movies, but that’s because they actively want to compete with the theatrical model and get people to stay home and watch their offerings. Paramount Global wants that too, but not at the expense of Paramount Pictures and billions in box office revenue each year. Paramount+ movies are usually going to be the ones which likely wouldn’t have been big earners in theaters.

That said, I have no doubt there’s a lot that could be done creatively with Star Trek TV movies. So many of us clamored for UPN to make Star Trek: Excelsior TVMs in the 90s, certainly. There are so many smaller stories with legacy characters or from the universes of the new shows that have great potential.

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from and agree with you.

The problem is Yeoh’s star power appears greater than ever and she has probably has simply outgrown the Trek budget for a streaming show. P+ and CBSAA were likely hoping her career might be winding down, but instead the opposite has happened.

I don’t know, they brought back the entire TNG cast to Picard. Obviously I’m not comparing what they make to what Yeoh makes lol. But they aren’t making what the previous actors of Picard was making when you’re playing characters for 30 years either, so that budget has jumped by that reason alone. And they figured it out. It’s rumored they are paying Stewart $750 thousand an episode, which is pretty insane if true. That would mean he’s made $20 million for 3 seasons. No wonder he’s thinking of coming back lol.

And remember P+ is not D+, but they have some pretty big stars showing up on their shows now. Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren are in 1923 and both of those are just as still big stars as Yeoh is, obviously Ford is still big even at 80 years old. In fact, the creator for that show bragged Paramount is spending $30 million an episode. I guess I have to watch one of these Yellowstone shows someday lol. But that is an INSANE amount of money for a TV show. And apparently P+ has no issue footing the bill. I suspect a big chunk of that is just to pay Ford to show up lol.

Jeremy Renner is huge with all the Marvel and Mission Impossible movies and he has a show there too. And second season starts next month. Sylvester Stallone is not as big as used to be, but the guy still gets a big salary in films and he also has a show there. And I’m sure someone will correct me, but I think all those I just mentioned is made by the same guy who is doing the Yellowstone shows, right? If they are paying Kurtzman over $100 million to make Star Trek more Star Trek shows, you have to wonder how much they are paying that guy?? His shows is becoming the backbone of that service and he’s apparently making even more.

I see so many people saying she’s too expensive now, but I don’t think its remotely an issue, mostly because apparently she is still making the show lol. So yeah, that’s obviously not the problem or the headlines would be the opposite. Paramount isn’t broke, it’s still a HUGE corporation and they are trying to make P+ as big and successful as D+, HBOMax, Netflix and all the others. They obviously want Yeoh but they have attached her to a very questionable show the fanbase is very divided on.

Wow, $20 million for three seasons of Picard!!?? As you said, no wonder he is willing to do more haha! Yeah you make some good points regarding Michelle Yeoh’s price point. With streaming budgets going higher and higher with each passing day (How much did Amazon pay to make Rings of Power?!) Maybe P+ can still afford her!

The other option of course is the P+ movie which you mentioned below. I think a lot of legacy fans like us would watch, since it is a one-off!

Yeah, if it’s true, it’s no wonder they got him back for Picard lol. But just to stress it is a rumor only as far as I know.

It is insane what they are spending on these shows. And I don’t pretend to really understand how the streaming model works. I’m really at a lost trying to understand how you can spend which was literally a billion dollars on a show like the Ring of Power, but somehow you expect to double that in profit. If you’re spending a billion I assume you expect to MAKE at least a billion on it the least, right?

But how does that work??? Do they expect tens of millions of new subscribers to sign up and watch it?? Or do you just mostly expect people who are already signed up to the service to watch it??? I mean lets be honest I don’t think P+ is getting millions of new subscribers every time a new show is released. They probably have maxed out the people who signed up for the service to watch them. At this point it’s more about just keeping them on the service year around. But how do earn that kind of money back for Ring of Power if it’s just people who were already paying for the service? I’m a serious lost how any of this works lol.

As far as Yeoh, it just sounds like she genuinely wants to make the show, so I’m guessing she’s not going to strong arm them over more money or it doesn’t sound it’s a big contention either way.

But again, this talking point that’s its all due to her schedule is so ridiculous lol. If it was due to her being so ‘busy’, why is she the one telling Kurtzman she hopes the show will still happen? She obviously wants to do the show and probably back in 2020 when they were originally suppose to start shooting it, there is simply no show for her to be in three years later.

I meant a new Star Trek show is released.

Yeah, Rings of Power had an absolutely insane budget… did they really think they would get a ton of incremental subs?? Almost everyone I know (incl myself) already have Amazon Prime, mainly for online shopping, so for me the streaming portion is a bonus.
How does the business model possibly work for streaming a show like Rings of Power? Beats me!

Yeah it’s really a head scratchier. But I’m guessing they expect to get a lot more subs over the shows run. I think its suppose to go 5 years IIRC. I haven’t seen it but may check it out at some point. Suppose to look pretty. It better be very pretty for a billion dollars lol.

Like Disney+, Paramount+ runs predominantly on its own content.

Its return on investment comes from being the content producer and not just the streamer.

It will be interesting to see if this gives it more market power over time, especially now that it’s attracting many A-listers. Kiefer Sutherland has a new show “Rabbit Hole” coming to P+ soon. I’m thinking that Star Trek will need to have names like Yeoh and Nicholas Cage on their streaming shows to keep them in the tent.

Yeah we’ll see. As long as we get more Star Trek, I’m game! ;D

Obviously no one knows what is going to come out of nutty situation but I do agree with you making a feature film is just too risky unless it’s a SMALL movie and the entire issue with Hollywood today, Paramount included is no one wants to make small movies anymore, it just doesn’t seem worth it I guess. That seems to be the entire issue with the Kelvin movies. They want to make one but they can’t get the money to make a bigger film for obvious reasons but they don’t seem to want to start over and make something around $100 million which what ANY next Star Trek movie should be made for until they prove they can go beyond $400 million in box office and I have serious doubts about. They could do that tomorrow but don’t seem to be in a rush. So yeah, it’s a mess for a reason but it goes beyond Star Trek too.

Everyone seems to love Yeoh, including everyone on this board. The issue is she’s attached a very divisive character and if your main fanbase is even questioning if a show should be made, it’s very risky to make a movie that honestly will be mostly for hardcore Trek fans. And Yeoh has only starred in one western movie which she just won her award for. It did fairly well at the box office, around $100 million but that’s with amazing reviews and tons of hype once it became a big contender at award season.

But if they can’t get the show off the ground for any reason, then pull an Obi Wan and just make a limited 6 episode story and call it a day, Or as you suggested a TV movie. The irony is I don’t have any doubt that the Section 31 show won’t get tons of eyeballs on it if it did get made because of the curiosity factor alone. The question is how long will people watch it, especially if they really hate Georgiou as a charactr? But if you make a P+ movie, it would definitely get people to watch.

Just end the space Hitler show idea already.

The Emperor Georgiou-Hitler character is horrible, and Discovery killed Section 31 as a cool story. DS9 and Enterprise keep them mysterious and ambiguous, which was fun. The Discovery writers turned them into a unit that everyone knew about.

Just horrible. They should concentrate on SNW stories and bringing back TNG characters past PIC.

I agree with this. And shoehorning an A-list star into the wrong role does not always work out well, either dramatically or financially. Just look at Benedict Cumberbatch in STID.

agreed. section 31 works best in the shadows. discovery never understood that

Also agree!

Congratulations, Ms. Yeoh, on your recognition.
So, S31 is four years into “in development”? So, which actually sees the light of day first, Trek (1)4, or S31?
I doubt if Ms. Yeoh, or anyone else is sitting by their phone, waiting for the call.

S31

The irony is I was once the guy shouting BOTH of these were happening lol. I was the one constantly telling people when they said the Section 31 show was ‘dead’ that it really wasn’t. They mentioned it in so and so interview a month ago and that people should stop getting their hopes up about a Pike show was coming anytime soon because the Section 31 show was obviously the priority blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that was because they KEPT talking about it.

And looked how that turned out lol. I can always admit when I’m wrong, but yeah like the movies, my feelings have gone the opposite way for obvious reasons. I mean what is so frustrating is that the LAST time we got ‘news’ on this show, they said they were going to announce ‘soon’ more information about it. That was 7 months ago and 7 months later apparently the announcement is ‘we’re still working on it’ lol.

Even if you WANT the show to happen, can anyone really be surprised why people are skeptical it’s even happening? It’s the movies all over again, just STFU and make the show. They had four years and the irony is the show seems less developed today because they lost the show runners who they hired to make it lol. Just like they lost their director in the latest movie debacle because they all got tired of waiting around. You can not make this shit up!

I’ll bet we see the Section 31 show and Star Trek 14 before we see Axanar

LOL, yep!

What’s Axanar?

It’s a fan film someone was trying to produce that’s about the first big conflict with the Klingons and Starfleet. But then there was a scandal about the producers using the donated money for their own use or something and it became a mess lol. That’s about as much as I know.

There is a 20 minute promotion video on YouTube like in a documentary style. It actually looks really good and does a great job tying to the look of TOS. It’s probably the only thing that will ever get produced. I probably seen it 5 times lol.

Gotcha! I never seen any fan films or know about any of that stuff. And not a TOS guy but might have a look. Thanks! 😎

As I hear more and more about the delays I’m wondering if the producers are waiting for Picard to be over to move forward with S31.

It would be easy for them to adapt the Picard S2 storyline for the S31 show to continue where Picard left off and bring Georgiou into the story as the lead or co-lead with someone else (Janeway due to the Borg centric nature).

Possibly. I suspect we won’t get any announcements for new shows until after Picard ends. I also think they just have been able to lock down Yeoh’s schedule. It may be as simple as that.

Can’t wait for S31 to come out. Hope she show up on Picard.

If you cross your fingers, maybe it will come by SNW seventh season!

No you don’t.

Michelle Yeoh’s Section 31 series has been in development since before Star Trek: Picard was even announced. Clearly the studio execs at what was then CBS and CBS All Access and now Paramount have been dragging their feet on this project ever since the strong backlash from many Star Trek fans over the Discovery’s departure from recognizable form and canon.

To be honest, I am not excited about this series. I am not saying that it can’t or won’t be good, just saying that it does not excite me like say Strange New Worlds or Prodigy excites me (my two favorite new Star Trek series). I liked Section 31 back in Deep Space Nine with Luther Sloan and Dr. Julian Bashier. Section 31 is Deep Space Nine’s baby.

In my opinion, Section 31 started going downhill in Star Trek: Enterprise when they tried to formalize as an established, semi-secret covert organization. However, it was Star Trek: Into Darkness that ruined Section 31, especially with them having a massive starship such as the USS Vengeance at their disposal, which was twice the size of the already oversized USS Enterprise of the Kelvin-timeline. In Star Trek: Into Darkness, Section 31 completely lost it’s mysterious and secretive quality. It had frankly taken over Starfleet command via Admiral Marcus, who was also in Section 31. This also brings up the question if Alexander Marcus in the Prime Timeline, Dr. Marcus’s father, was in Section 31 and if so does that mean that Project Genesis in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Star Trek III: The Search for Spock was really a Section 31 operation with their person Dr. Marcus in charge with a team of unsuspecting, naïve scientists working on Space Station Regula 1?? (These are the kind of questions that keep me up at night! lol)
But Section 31 was made even worse in Star Trek Discovery Season 2, which had it not been for the appearances of the Enterprise, Pike, Spock, and Number One, was probably the worst season of Discovery. The entire plotline about the red angel, the mysterious signals, Control, and Leland was riddled with as many plot holes as there are pot holes on the streets of Wisconsin after a rough Winter. With all do respect, Leland was perhaps one of the worst and frankly stupidest main villain’s in Star Trek. He lacked the mysterious, intrigue, intelligence, and resolve of Sloan from Deep Space Nine. Section 31 only really worked well in Deep Space Nine, not Enterprise, and especially not in Into Darkness and Discovery, where they had their badges, uniforms, and ships. This is why I am hesitant about a Section 31 series.

However, I would probably watch a Section 31 series if they brought back William Sadler, who is a fantastic and talented actor, to play Sloan as a MAIN character along side Michelle Yeoh. Bring back Sadler as Sloan and I’m interested.

“This also brings up the question if Alexander Marcus in the Prime Timeline, Dr. Marcus’s father, was in Section 31 and if so does that mean that Project Genesis in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Star Trek III: The Search for Spock was really a Section 31 operation with their person Dr. Marcus in charge with a team of unsuspecting, naïve scientists working on Space Station Regula 1?”

Perhaps Strange New Worlds will answer these questions. We meet young Kirk, maybe that brings Carol and the origins of Genesis.

Or not.

Yeah, it’s clearly the backlash why this show never got off the ground when they said it would. I’m reading several places where this ‘news’ was announced and it’s the same rage and infighting over a show they told us four years ago was happening.

You can’t ignore that. And obviously they haven’t. And yeah, I don’t think it’s JUST the idea of a Section 31 show happening. There are people like me who was genuinely excited about it. I couldn’t wait to see them on Discovery. I couldn’t wait to see them as much as I couldn’t wait to see Pike and Spock on the show. And then they proceeded to absolutely ruin what made them fascinating in the first place. In some ways I understood and even defended it to a point. But by the time the season ended, I couldn’t wait for them to go away and I was originally a supporter. That’s not a great sign lol.

And I will also say this, even though I STILL think the Section 31 concept is really interesting, especially in something like Star Trek, to me Discovery kind of told me maybe some things are just better in small dosage. I obviously loved them on DS9 but they were only in 3 episodes. I loved them on Enterprise as well, which btw, I have to disagree with you on because DS9 established they were a secret organization at the beginning of Starfeet’s origins. That’ apparently why no one heard about them for 2 centuries. That was literally the point and Discovery just completely over wrote that when Pike is buddies with one of the guys who runs it. Again, it can’t be stated enough there are two reasons why people have an issue with a Section 31 show and it’s ironically from people who both love and hate the idea.

Discovery destroyed what fascinated people about them and once again proved WHY the show should’ve never been in the time period it was in. Because if it was in the 25th or 32nd century then they could’ve portrayed Section 31 just like we saw on the show and got no push back over it because we don’t know how the organization would’ve evolved after DS9. That’s why it’s so much harder to do a prequel show when you don’t really want to follow the fucking canon.

Section 31 was yet another example of why people questioned the show even being in the 23rd century in the first place???

the nero attack in the 2009 film led to S31 being more open and willing to take up arms against a potential threat to the Fed, even the idea of a false flag to star an inevitable war with the klingons

Tony, the militarization of Starfleet and Section 31 with the Vengeance perhaps works for Star Trek: Into Darkness as a fallout of Nero’s incursion, resulting in the destruction of Vulcan and a large contingent of the Federation fleet that warped in from Vulcan, but how does one justify the Section 31 armada or fleet of ships in the 23rd century during the second season of Discovery? As much as new Star Trek showrunners and writer insist that Discovery (or Strange New Worlds, which I love) take place in the same timeline between the events of “The Cage” and events Star Trek: The Original Series (Captain Kirk’s five year mission), there’s too much that doesn’t add up or work. I enjoy Strange New Worlds because it is mostly great on its own merits. In my head canon Strange New Worlds is set in a new timeline created after the events of First Contact and Star Trek: Enterprise.

I love SNW too but I still think just like I felt with Discovery they should’ve put those shows in their own universe and not the Prime universe. SNW definitely does a better job with canon than Discovery bar none, but yeah it still has plenty of issues lol. But because it’s just a much better show, most of us are not that bothered overall. And I have to stress again, at least it’s TRYING to uphold canon to a higher level. Discovery just gave it lip service mostly and why it’s now now out of the 23rd century.

because of the near defeat and destruction of the fed, starfleet in Disc s1.
we have seen s31 come from the shadows during or after major crises for the fed/starfleet such as nero, the dominion, the post xindi era and that klingon war in Disc

Wow reading these boards, once again, it’s pretty obvious why this show has been in limbo for four years lol. It’s funny to see so much rage over just the idea of it happening. And the funny thing it’s been this way since the show was first mentioned back in 2018 before they announced the freaking Picard show. And 5 years later nothing has changed lol. Nothing. You might as well just throw up an article about abortion and you’ll get the same results. It’s hilarious.

Michelle Yeoh will probably be Patrick Stewart’s age before this show sees the light of day. Nothing should be this divisive after 5 years ‘in development’ and an international star leading it at that.

The big draw for Paramount here is the Chinese market where Yeoh has a significant following. A few flame wars most people won’t read are really neither here nor there.

As fans commenting on online forums, we really overestimate our reach.

Apparently it’s not too overestimated, hence why there is a Pike show entering second season now and this show still in limbo. Do you think that just happened by chance? Or do you think they just saw where the wind was blowing and made changes? This isn’t rocket science, if fans were begging for a Section 31 show like they were begging for the Pike show, there would be a Section 31 show today and Anson Mount would be starring in a Disney+ rebooted Inhumans show or something.

And Paramount+ is not even in China lol. In fact not a single Star Trek show is playing in China now, legally at least. So what are you even talking about?? I don’t think that’s really the issue at all.

And one last thing, Yeoh was in two big Chinese movies in recent years, Crazy Rich Asians and Shang-Chi. Crazy Rich Asians bombed in China and Shang-Chi was never even released there. So yeah, it’s very very complicated when it comes to that market and Hollywood has learned, the hard way, just throwing in Asian actors, even popular ones is no guarantee for success there.

The big draw for Paramount here is the Chinese market where Yeoh has a significant following. 

This is the essence of it, of course. But — setting aside creative issues such as the likeability of her character — pandering to the Chinese market carries significantly more risk than it did back in 2018.

What happens if the PRC continues to clamp down on Western content — which it has signaled that it has every intention of doing? What if it conditions access on content control unacceptable to Paramount?

What happens if the PRC invades the ROC? If activists successfully highlight the issue of genocide in Xinjiang? If Biden or the next administration escalates the trade war with China? You can come up with a lot of scenarios that would result in extremely bad PR for Paramount at best, and commercially unacceptable restrictions on distribution at worst.

Going to say it one more time, how is putting her in a Paramount+ show to attract the ‘Chinese market’ when Paramount+ is not even in China?? Can you answer me that?

To make this clear, NO American streaming service is in China. There is no Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, HBOMax, Amazon Prime, YouTube, none of it! They have their own services with their own shows, many that rival these services in terms of subscriptions. Look it up!

So how do you ‘pander’ to a market that you can’t even get access to in the first place?

This isn’t 2015 anymore. Hollywood has realized this. China has only cracked down on Hollywood entertainment in the last few years. Less and less movies are even shown in China. Most international movies used to have a month distribution there and that’s not even guaranteed anymore. There is a reason why you don’t hear companies pushing to sell things there like a decade ago because apparently too much capitalism has finally reached it’s limit in communist China or there is just too much influence with western countries. Probably both. And of course the pandemic probably had a major influence too.

I’m going on a ledge here and say this is not some ultra strategic move to get an actress in a franchise and streaming service in a country that doesn’t have either…nor wants either!

Going to say it one more time, how is putting her in a Paramount+ show to attract the ‘Chinese market’ when Paramount+ is not even in China?? 

Presumably by a joint venture and licensing arrangement with a local player, which is exactly what CBS did with Trek 3.0 shows in Europe until recently.

Going to say it one more time, there is not a single Star Trek show currently playing in China since Discovery premiered, the same show Yeoh was on for three seasons. There has not, at ANY time, that anyone has suggested they even want to air Star Trek in China for the last five years or guess what, we would’ve heard about it by now.

And I think we established that China isn’t Europe. For starters, Star Trek is actually popular in Europe, it’s the second biggest market after America. China does not care about Star Trek and they know it, especially after the last two movies did just OK business there after trying so hard to push those movies at the time.

The reality is the other poster just threw out this bizarre claim they are making a show for the ‘Chinese market’ when they clearly had no idea the situation Hollywood has had with China for years now. It’s getting harder to even get shows and movies in the country. And seriously, what is even the point if you’re going to put all the effort to get one TV show in a country that is obviously not geared to your overall brand and have no interested in such a brand? That’s why they have that deal with Europe and not China because in Europe that’s a market that actually WANTS Star Trek and not being force fed to want Star Trek. See the difference?

This is the point and what I said in my above post. You’re not going to make a brand popular in a country that is NOT into your brand and has been actively promoting less western entertainment just by throwing an Asian face on it. Seriously, that’s literally been the lesson learned and Hollywood has figured that out now after trying and failing. They tried that move with Star Wars, which is 10 times bigger than Star Trek worldwide and it failed in China.

And they’ve given up the idea that China is going to be this new market where they can sell their big IPs and franchises because they have been pushing back against it for yeas now more and more. If Paramount is trying to make Section 31 for the ‘Chinese market’ then they already failed.

Actually I agree with you!;They are really cracking down on Western stuff. I used to live in Japan about 14 years ago and went to China a few times a year and still has friends there

It was much more open then then it is today.

One of my best friends is from Shanghai but lived in the States and Australia. We still talk every month. He says things are becoming more draconian in the country and it’s becoming a ‘Chinese First’ mentally just like America has been having and trying to make push Chinese comodity I over western popular culture and business. When I was living there there was Google, Facebook and Uber, HBO and Western shows and movies every where.

They used to have American networks shows like ABC, CBS etc you can get on certain cable packages. Not the network but those shows they would sell to run on cable channels. Not today.

Today all of that stuff is gone It’s all been replaced with Chinese companies.

And this was the popular stuff. China never cared about Sci Fi or American sci fi I should say.

Is it possible sure, but you’re right they are not going to put on a show just because an Asian actor is on it. That’s naive thinking. There are lots of Asian actors on shows now, they are still not airing in China.

Bro you can’t even get some of the most popular shows in the world there right now like GOT. Before you could but China blocked iHBO. They watch it but through VPN like most shows and movies.

Even the really popular stuff like a lot of Marvel or Disney shows is not there because like you said there is no Disney+ there so none of those shows are there. But people watch them like crazy with a VPN. These are big shows and none of them are in China right now.

And Star Trek is not popular there at all. Nobody cares about it there except hardcore sci fi fan who probably saw the movies. Just like Star Warrs.. If you can’t get Loki or GOT there, no one is bending over backwards for Star Trek.

Even if they did get this show there it would probably be cancelled there in a year…or banned! 😂

Thank you! Seriously, thank you!

And to be clear I was really referencing to the The New Kid line when he said they are making this show basically to sell to the Chinese market and said it would be a big draw. That is just beyond naive. It’s hard enough to get an American show in the country now, but there NO market for American shows the same way it is in Europe and other parts of Asia. That’s the point being made. At least not now. Sure there are certainly American shows there, but unless they are REALLY big shows, they are very regulated there.

I’ll give people a better example of what I mean. If you live in America, turn on your TV right now and tell me where you can watch all the Chinese shows and movies in your cable or streaming services? Now, pretend like you’re in China and that’s basically the same issue with most foreign shows and movies there. Legally I mean. Illegally yeah they are watching tons of western movies and shows, but in terms of Chinese broadcast themselves, foreign TV shows are very very secondary in that market.

You’re talking to someone who has traveled to China 3-4 times a year pre-pandemic. I usually use a VPN to watch shows when I’m there, including Star Trek lol.. American TV doesn’t exist there the way people seem to think it does. I think people assume it’s similar to how American movies are treated and no it isn’t! Yeah China is a lot more open today obviously but as said, it is still a very closed system in many ways and it has closed a bit in the last few years to western products. Majority of people watch American TV via Chinese websites or still just buy shows on DVD which was the way most people watched American shows before streaming became a thing.

Just because Yeoh is on a TV show doesn’t mean much in China unless it’s a Chinese or Asian based TV show to get any real traction or promotion there. So if you’re making a TV show JUST for China, then you’re wasting your money lol. That’s the point, being made.

And Star Trek is not even popular there, so even less so.

Yeah I think most people who never been to China or know much about it thinks it’s much more westernized today where America culture is everywhere now. It’s definitely a lot more today. They have Shanghai Disneyland now so yeah lol.

But it’s still very much inherently Chinese, especially when you get out of the big cities or live in the western provinces. The first time I went there was 2007 and stayed for just a week. I stayed in a western hotel in Beijing and the only English shows I caught on TV was Friends and a British show called Cold Feet and that was literally it bro! 😂

They had a lot of Korean and Japanese shows (including one of my favorites at the time) because I think because that’s what the hotel mostly catered to and a channel that played only Bollywood movies but that was it for foreign entertainment.

They had news channels like CNN so just watched that when I was in the room basically.

When I started travelling more and made friends there I would stay with them sometimes to save money and most didn’t have or watch English shows because unless you had to have a really expensive premium cable package, which most couldn’t afford, they didn’t really get any outside a few.

And the few they had on basic cable were old shows like Cheers, Family Ties, ER, stuff from the 80s and 90s. And some reality shows.

Anything newish was on the premium cable and that would still be a few years behind whatever the current show was at the time. But that was still an issue in a lot of places in Asia including Japan. But in Japan you got every big American and British show. It was still on cable but basic cable. But in China you basically just pirated shows online or buy knock off DVDs. If there was an American show you really wanted to watch you can find it but you had to go to counterfeit stores and buy ripped DVDs for shows and movies.

Now it’s different. You can watch any updated show you want but not legally. There is always Chinese websites that pirate shows but like America those get shut down a lot.

They have a ton of streaming services now but I think it’s still mostly Chinese programs. Maybe some international stuff on them but I doubt a lot of American stuff unless it’s older.

One of my friends say the government is trying to shut down VPNs to get shows and movies off of Netflix from other countries but it’s so many of them now it’s impossible.

And because censorship has become higher there that’s probably the main there are less foreign shows and movies right now. I’m surprised CNN and BBC is still there lol.

In other words if you plan to move to China either buy a good VPN or learn Mandarin if you want to watch any TV there, but you’re not going to be watching a western shows on TV or streaming there.

Oh btw, I used to live in Asia too! But I lived in Korea for a long time. But I know Japan very well and been there many times, mostly Tokyo. If I may ask, where did you live?

Now THERE is a place you can sell Star Trek lol.

I basically lived in the Tokyo/Kanto region. I lived in Yokohama for awhile at first before moving to Shibuya in Tokyo. Lived total about 3 years. Loved it. I was back there again in 2016 last. Really want to go back.

Oh and BTW, Star Trek was airing when I lived there. It was on a small cable network and they played the classic shows, TOS-VOY in order on a loop. Basically they aired an episode a day 5 days a week. So they would run TOS every day and when that was done go to TNG next, then DS9 and then Voyager and start all over again! It was great. I usually watched 2-3 episodes a week.

But you could buy all the DVDs of all the show, but they were expensive. Enterprise was new at the time and that was super expensive.

You go to music stores and the soundtracks were there. There weren’t even Star Trek soundtracks in my local music store growing up lol.

Oh once I found a clothing store in Tokyo that sold some Star Trek shirts and bought a Voyager shirt with Japanese style writing on it. It was so cool. Every time in America when I wore it sometimes people stopped me and ask me where I got it from.

There wasn’t a lot of Star Trek stuff in Japan but it was there. There was a market for it but it was small. It would’ve been tons more if Star Trek was owned by Disney lol. Now that’s what is everywhere there. You would think Disney was a Japanese company. 😂

Wow cool!

And yep been to Yokohama several times. Don’t pretend to know it that well but really nice area and close to Tokyo. Shibuya I know very well. It’s the place most people want to see and I had a friend who lived there and I would sometimes stay with her.

As far as your point about Star Trek and Japan, that’s is actually the sad truth and that Japan is probably the biggest market in Asia is not saying much lol. I lived in Korea as I said and no one cares about Star Trek there either. It is not remotely in the zeitgeist there at all. When I lived there, I lived near a U.S. military base (not remotely in the military) and they had a channel called AFN or Armed Forces Network and this was waaaaay back when DS9 and VOY was running and they played them. Just a week behind in America,, but I actually watched the end of those shows there.

But Star Trek, for whatever reason, just does not have any wide appeal in Asia. I been in over a dozen countries and I don’t think I’ve seen anything Trek related in terms of the shows airing, merchandise, anything. Now I wasn’t going around trying find it or anything lol. I travel to experience other cultures obviously so it’s not really on my radar when I’m some place else. But thinking about it since we been talking, yeah it doesn’t register for whatever reason like it does in western countries. But you throw a Marvel movie or show in these places they all eat it up lol.

And that was the point of the Kelvin movies, to make Star Trek more popular with non-western countries and especially Asia. There are over 2.5 billion people who live there, so yeah I can see why they wanted to expand it. Maybe they’ve had some influence but I can only speak on China specifically since that’s the only place I been regularly since 2016 (and it’s work related) but no one ever talks about those movies. And it’s not like people CAN’T watch the shows, they obviously can illegally but no one I know there has ever watched any Star Trek.

Now if you mention Marvel or Transformers that conversation can go on for days lol.

You are 100% correct, Of course if Yeoh has her own spin-off series they will find a partner to distribute it there. Speaking in general terms, it’s “crack-pipe smoking ridiculous” to not realize this so freaking obvious marketing direction that CBS will take on a Yeoh-led Trek series.

Like, Duh! Lol

I know I sound like a broken record … but … given how busy Michelle Yeoh has become (and seriously, good for getting all these amazing projects, she’s earned them) I remain skeptical she has room in her schedule to commit to a full series order. S31 would function fantastically as a limited-run miniseries … say, five or six episodes, set in the PIC era. It wouldn’t be a stretch to write that the Guardian of Forever dropped her off there rather than sending her back to Pike’s time. They could use the miniseries to wrap up Georgiou’s storyline, and perhaps bring in some legacies (like Seven, Raffi, Worf, and Riker) for her to interact with, while introducing new characters to springboard into the next actual live-action series.

Why can’t they do a show section 31 like mission impossible in Star Trek universe? It’s possible

Great idea!

I really hope we actually get this series — speaking as a more general viewer, I actually really liked Georgiou and I lost interest in Discovery after S3, and don’t get me wrong, I loved Pike and Spock in S2, but I just didn’t enjoy most of the SNW episodes.

Out of all the potentially upcoming shows, Section 31 is the only one that I’m interested in. I think it would be nice to not have everything either based on feelings (Discovery) or nostalgic fanservice galore (Picard).

Just curious, do you like any of the animated shows?

Not necessarily, but I can see why some fans would love them. I just personally can’t really get into Prodigy for some reason, and I’m just turned off by the humor and overall vibe of Lower Decks — just personal preference though, I see why people would love Lower Decks, but it’s just not my thing.

Fair enough, I was just curious! Thanks for the reply!

Nobody wants this show Paramount

Plenty of people want this show. I am not one of them.

It’s going to be quite a wake up call for some fans in a year or two where instead of the Golden Girls-Janeway/Seven series we get the Section 31 series.

I am looking forward to seeing the reactions here when this happens…lol

I’m actually impressed with how much genuine discussion this is getting here.

Yes, some of the gatekeeping voices are out in (expected) force, but it’s been a while since TrekMovie has had a thread with this kind of legs that is balancing off the continuum of viewpoints.

I think some want it just to hate watch it! So yeah bring it on!

I’m really looking forward to this. I think they put it on hold back in 2020, because of COVID and probably because they fast-tracked SNW. I think in 2021 Kurtzman said, that with 5 shows ongoing they don’t want to bite more than they can chew and wait until one of the current shows ends until they launch Section 31. With Picard (supposedly) winding down, I think the only thing in the way of this show actually happening is Michelle Yeoh’s schedule. I’m genuinely happy for her third career boost (first the Hong Kong cinema of the early 1990s, then Hollywood in the late 1990s and early 2000s and now TV). She is an amazing actress and one of the most versatile actresses in the field. Just look at the two versions of Georgiou we’ve had and I 100% believe that these are two completely different people.

Agreed. I think this show is next in the queue. I don’t think the Golden Girls-Janeway/Seven series is ever going to happen.

I think the point is here, folks, P+ is currently still talking S31 but I don’t see Yeoh doing much at the moment. I’m not saying she isn’t interested but past a movie I’m not sure how much of her schedule she is going to be able to clear up.

Many congratulations to Michelle Yeoh on her tremendous success these past few years. Her acceptance speech at the GG was brilliant. She is the definition of classy. I’d love to see more of her in a Section 31 series! She “gets” what Trek, and its fandom, are all about. Go get ’em, Michelle!

I’d love to see more of her in a Section 31 series! She “gets” what Trek, and its fandom, are all about. Go get ’em, Michelle!

Well said!

Woah wait, seriously? They are still trying to make Section 31: The Adolf Chronicles a thing? F’ckin hlarious man! 🤣

Hacks to no end! It will be fun to watch and make fun of though. Win win either way!

Other than that train wreck, congrats to Yeoh on her win! Well deserved! 👍 Seen it three times including the theater!

And unlike Discovery, she actually acts in the movie!

i want this series and i want a seven and raffi spin of with those two as the leads the show can be a picard spin off just like strange new worlds and the section 31 series are discovery spin off series
they could make the starfleet academy show a picard spin off series so both of the first 2 new live live action star trek shows can have two spin off series each with each being different in tone and style from each other and the series they sun off from
the more new trek series the better i say i love all the new ones we have got so far they are in the top 5 spots on my favorite to least favorite trek series list