Anthony and Laurie discuss the upcoming rebranding of Paramount+ into Paramount + with Showtime, Jonathan Frakes’ thoughts on the Strange New Worlds/Lower Decks crossover as well as Star Trek’s future onscreen. They look forward to season 2 of Gates McFadden’s podcast, mourn the loss of Annie Wersching, and give an update on the status of the merch left behind by Eaglemoss when it folded. They also do a quick check-in on The Orville.
The podcast moves on to focus on the final Star Trek: Picard trailer, along with a play-by-play breakdown, courtesy of showrunner Terry Matalas. They also catch up on more Picard updates and Tony and Laurie give their spoiler-free first impressions of episode 1 of season three from their early press screeners.
They wrap things up with some Star Trek/Eddie Murphy history and Anthony Rapp’s one-man show in NYC.
Paramount+ To Merge With Showtime And Be Rebranded
Jonathan Frakes On Directing ‘Strange New Worlds’/’Lower Decks’ Crossover And Star Trek’s Future
Exclusive: Season 2 Of Gates McFadden’s ‘InvestiGates’ Podcast Arrives In February With More Star Trek Guests
Annie Wersching Dies; ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Borg Queen Actress Was 45
GoFundMe for Annie Wersching’s kids
Fanhome Revives Eaglemoss Enterprise-D Build Program; Master Replicas To Sell Leftover Ship Models
Interview: Nana Visitor Is Writing A Star Trek Book That Goes Where No Woman Has Gone Before
Hulu Still Not Ready To Announce A Decision On The Future Of ‘The Orville
Watch: Final ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 3 Trailer Reveals New Characters And A Warning To Trust No One
Exclusive: Terry Matalas Breaks Down Final ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 3 Trailer
Captain Styles in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
Captain John Harriman in Star Trek Generations
Captain Esteban in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
“Ship in a Bottle” discussion on the Trek, Marry, Kill podcast (with Brian from the Shuttle Pod and Laurie)
‘Star Trek: Picard’ Team Teases More Season 3 Cameos, Shares Behind-The Scenes-Images
‘Picard’ Showrunner Talks Villains And Why Season 3 Is A Game Changer For Star Trek Universe
Kim vs. the Cougar: The Oral History of 24’s Most Infamous Scene
Terry Matalas Says ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 3 Passes The Torch To The “Next Next Generation”
Anthony: Eddie Murphy On Why He Turned Down ‘Star Trek IV’: He Wasn’t Interested In “Talking Jive To Spock”
Laurie: Anthony Rapp’s one-man show Without You
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Can’t wait for season 3, even after being sorely disappointed by the first 2. As they say, third time’s the charm! But I am very concerned with no renewal news for other shows.
Great name! I use to really enjoy the SNL Toncix the Talking Cat skits.
I have no idea what that is but thanks :)
They have been hinting Section 31 for years. Seven/Raffi adventures. Now The Next Next Generation….or Picard 2.0. After investing a lot of money to build these sets, building these new ships, I bet they are building them for the next show.
They still have no idea what exactly will be approved. For sure a new show will be moving forward.
Same thing happened with SNW. They built the Enterprise during Discovery Season 2. It was a secret, but that was the plan.
Rebecca, Ethan, and Anson couldn’t control their excitement before the official announcement. I feel the same thing is happening now.
Hard to say.
On one hand, yes, Paramount Global seems to wait until very late before announcing its green lit a television show (opposite to the movie side).
On the other, Matalas clearly wants to keep the old gang of production designers, which likely means doing his new show in California. That can only happen with another state production grant. None has been listed.
Paramount has previously stated any new Trek shows after Picard will be shot in Toronto.
There isn’t any hint of anything in preproduction in the guild sheets or rumours there.
In fact, CBS and Paramount have exactly one scripted show (Cross) of any kind listed as currently in production in the greater Toronto area (CBS Stages Mississauga). More, Cross is being produced by Paramount for Amazon Prime. This suggests a bit of an overall pause in production of new shows for its own platforms as Paramount Global realigns all of its television content production.
So, no markers of work other than ‘development’ getting funded or underway in either place.
Perhaps, but I kind of doubt the cost of set construction will have much to do with a go/no go decision on a Picard spinoff series. Besides, they would have to pay to move all the sets from LA to Toronto anyway, and given that it probably would not cost that much more to make new sets fresh in Toronto for the new series.
Also, I am not sure how they really grow the market with a Picard follow-on series. This series ain’t like DSC, SNW or Prodigy, where it brings in new fans. This series is for the older fans, and while we will (hopefully) enjoy it, I don’t think they will throw more money on new series for older fans — this fan contingent maybe get’s one more season of LDS, and then that’s it other than some cameos here and there. My prediction is that the future will be in a new “Star Trek – TOS Continues” series and the Section 31 series at some point, with SNW getting many more years.
Actually Matalas said on the thread discussing the trailer that there are no plans right now for a 25th century show and that people have to watch season 3 of Picard and push for it to happen. But I have no doubt we’ll get a 25th century spin off because it’s what most fans want obviously. And if season 3 of Picard is good, really good, then they will be begging for it more. Most people want it now and many think the show suck lol. If it really excites people this time it seems like it’s only a matter of what the show will be more than anything because most want to see Star Trek to keep going forward and keep building on the TNG era like the current three shows now.
One of the challenges each time is to come up with a sufficiently distinctive premise. If it’s just a crew on an Enterprise or ‘insert ship here’ zipping about I think it will be quite hard to make something that different from SNW.
Well they already have 5 shows now…and ironically all 5 currently takes place on a starship. Picard was actually the one show that wasn’t at least based on a Starfleet ship and that didn’t even hold out very long lol. That basically changed in season 2. Prodigy first season did it a little differently but clearly next season will be officially be part of a Starfleet crew zipping around to find Chakotay.
Honestly. I don’t think it’s a big deal. Yeah they’ll try and give it a different angle like a specific mission or something’ but the reality is most fans want to see Starfleet officers on a starship. If that wasn’t the case at least one of these shows would be on a star base, colony or something uniquely different. I personally would love to see it (DS9 is my favorite show) but it’s been pretty clear to me that’s not happening. Even if the Starfleet Academy show happens they will probably just be on a Starship as well.
And I also think what helps because all these shows are in their own time periods or century they don’t ever have to worry about bumping into each other the same way the 90s shows did and why one show was on a station and the other in the Delta quadrant, etc.
I wasn’t really so much referring to the starship bit as the mission. I think all of the spin-off series apart from TNG and SNW (both of which came decades later than their similar predecessors) have tried to put some distinctive spin on it, rather than revisiting the starship in and near Federation space premise.
Again, maybe, but I suspect whatever this season of Picard ends up being and people really like it, they will probably just do more of it if a spin off happens. And it will probably stay more serialized too. Matalas already said that the spin off idea he wants to do is set up in the season and every time he hints at it, he literally describes it as the next next generation.
t’s why I don’t think it will be a very big departure in terms of the basic set up but yeah the story could be a different angle the way shows like Voyager and Discovery from season 3 on ended up being.
And he also mentioned there is some big ‘game changer’ in the season that’s suppose to shake up the universe. So maybe that will be the angle to whatever the spin off show could be.
I think all of the spin-off series apart from TNG and SNW (both of which came decades later than their similar predecessors) have tried to put some distinctive spin on it, rather than revisiting the starship in and near Federation space premise.
We are in complete agreement on this. Additionally — and especially in this belt- tightening period for the streaming services — you can bet your house the new future Trek series greenlighted by P+ are going to have to show that they can grow the market/subscribers. Given that, I have serious doubts about P+ greenlighting a Picard follow on show that is largely led by Berman-era actors in their 60’s and 70’s — because that type of new series would not be like DSC, SNW or Prodigy, where it brings in new fans. A Picard follow-on type series would be for us older fans, and while we will (hopefully) enjoy it, I don’t think they will throw more money on new series for older fans — this fan contingent maybe get’s one more season of LDS, and then that’s it other than some cameos here and there.
As I mentioned previously, my prediction is that the future will be in a new “Star Trek – TOS Continues” series and the Section 31 series at some point, with SNW and Prodigy getting many more years. DSC may end up with another spinoff as well given how extremely successful it’s SNW spin-off has become.
If they could do something like Prodigy with the next show that would be great. Even better if Janeway was the lead on that show too! 😁
Kind of disappointed they put Seven in Starfleet because the ideal spinoff would have been a Seven/Fenris Rangers show. An iconic character in a new series with unique premise.
I won’t lie, it is odd there has been no renewal to any of the shows yet. 1923 just got renewed for a second season but it sounds like it’s a huge hit for them; probably the biggest new shows for that site ever. And we also have to remember all the Trek shows, every one still has another season to premiere, so they may just wait until after those seasons air to decide what will get renewed and what doesn’t.
I think they’re all performing well in and of themselves. The worry to my mind would be if Star Trek Universe didn’t align with the wider strategy and they think they can compete better with other (possibly cheaper) shows.
Yeah that’s a good point. I have thought about it myself. These shows aren’t cheap and there could definitely be pulling back on the more expensive ones if they find cheaper and more popular shows. That’s why I think Discovery and possibly Picard (in terms of a spin off) would go first IF that was the case because I imagine they cost the most and Discovery is turning into a granddad in terms of streaming age lol. And the older a show goes the more expensive they get. Season 5 could even be it’s last. I’m not saying it is, but it’s starting to get long in the tooth now. But again that’s only if they are trying to cut costs or just produce cheaper shows. Maybe it will go twice as long, IDK lol.
And the fact they renewed 1923 and that thing sounds like a whopper in terms of its budget and at least twice as much as the live action Trek shows may be a good sign it’s all much ado about nothing.
Is Strange New Worlds cheaper than Discovery? I would imagine their seasons probably cost a similar amount now that Discovery has reduced their episode count down to 10. Granted, cast salaries on Discovery could go up the longer the show keeps running. On the other hand, its episodic nature means that SNW needs to create a new world every week whereas serialized stories on Discovery probably allow for more reuse of existing assets.
Being shot in California and paying for Patrick Stewart are probably two big price points on Picard. I also wonder if the TNG cast got higher salaries for season 3 than the series regulars they dumped from season 1 and 2. There may well be a “legacy actor bonus”. Then again, if the studio plans to get any actor who isn’t a complete unknown to lead any possible new Trek show that probably won’t be cheap.
I imagine they aren’t that different, but SNW is only in its second season and if all things being equal and they had to choose between SNW and DIS, I would imagine DIS would go first being older for starters and SNW just having huge hype and popularity behind it (and also being the one more geared towards old fans like Picard and Lower Decks). But don’t get me wrong, if DIS is doing better in viewings, then that would be different.
But yeah, we don’t know exactly what these shows are doing in that regard and I don’t pretend to know no more than I pretend to know which show is bringing in what viewers or even the most expensive. It’s all just idle guessing in that regard. Maybe Prodigy cost the most just to keep Mulgrew around! ;D
But sure, SNW could be on the chopping block too. ALL the shows can. The reality is none of them have been renewed again, so if this is some re-evaluation thing then there is probably a reason none of them have gotten renewals, right? But only 100% speculation.
And I’m MORE than sure they are paying the TNG cast a higher salary which is why if it’s about cutting cost then they may not go with some of them with a spin off show. They may still use one or two but probably not on the level season 3 is doing obviously.
I don’t have ANY doubts will get another 25th century show. Even Laurie and Anthony are convinced we will also; that seems to be what most fans want. It just may not be whatever the spin off is they are planning if they are adding a lot of legacy characters. They may just go with more new (read cheaper) characters. Totally fine with me if that’s the case! And others will still show up in episodes here and there anyway.
But I don’t think it’s a huge thing to worry about yet until someone like Kurtzman comes out in an interview and says, ‘yeah time to worry’. ;)
It is surprising none of them been renewed yet.
For me I would hate for Lower Decks or Prodigy to go. Love them both a lot. Be a hard day if either of those were cancelled.
Don’t care about Discovery and I don’t think that many people do either (but I know it has it’s fans). I would miss SNW if that got cancelled but it seems crazy it or Prodigy can be cancelled so soon. But anything is possible. Look at Netflix? I’m not sure if any Trek shows would even last that long there today. They didn’t even blink giving Discovery back.
Picard I’m on the fence but have to see how season 3 shakes out before I morn it or not.
But I want another 25th century show the most too. That’s really the only new show I care about. Hear that Kurtzman, give us the Picard spin off!!!
I think the Netflix issue with Discovery had a lot to do with them probably feeling screwed over by CBS and they probably have shows that they actually own doing better, so no love loss. But yes I actually wonder how well would a Star Trek show do on that site today? Before I used to think it was a no-brainer if they gave Star Trek to Netflix. Today, not so sure.
And I don’t want any of these shows to go, yes, including Discovery lol. I just want it to improve, that’s all. Maybe Picard will finally do that this season but we’ll see.
If I had to keep only one show between the five, it would be Prodigy! It’s funny it’s the show designed for 8 year olds I really want to stay lol. But it also sounds like it’s becoming a stronger Voyager spin off next season as well so that’s another plus for me!
I don’t think most of the TNG actors are swimming in other work so that might drive down the premium a bit.
True, but they aren’t just going to take anything either. I saw Michael Dorn on the Shuttlepod a week ago and he talked about everything including getting the job on DS9 and when they called him about doing Picard. He actually said on DS9 they tried to pay him less than what they paid him on TNG and he walked away until they came to his terms. It doesn’t sound like he just said yes right away to Picard either but I think what really helped (besides the money lol) is that they all got to add a lot of input about their characters and worked with Matalas on it. It sounded like creative input was just as important for a lot of them like it was for Stewart when he first came back.
Now they probably got Frakes on a discount lol. That guy just wants to do more Star Trek.
In all seriousness, these guys aren’t newbies like the other shows and so they are in a position to demand more but I don’t think anything major. They obviously all want to come back. That’s the crazy thing about Star Trek, with the exception of a few they all come back lol. Even Chris Pine was finally willing to come back after they tried stiffing him before it blew up in his face yet again and that guy isn’t hurting for work at the moment.
They even got Nimoy to come back and that dude was retired lol.
I was shocked to see Beltran come back after how much he railed on Voyager but money talks!
The TNG actors are pretty much a family at this point so I think they were all excited to come back and work with each other.
I’m hoping it won’t be the last time either! Fingers crossed season 3 will be amazing!
It definitely won’t be the last time lol. None of these characters are going away because they never really went away. We just didn’t have any new shows and movies in that era for a long time…now we do thankfully! ;)
That would be nuts if they cancelled SNW, the show most people seem to like…but kept Discovery! 🤣🙄😥
Well, stranger things have happened lol. Sure that can happen, I just don’t see it personally. And its not because I really like SNW and not a huge fan of Discovery. I actually try and look of this stuff objectively, I think everyone knows that about me. As I said, unless DIS is just doing gang buster ratings above all these other shows, it’s probably on its way out in another year or two either way.
And yes even when that goes out, I’m sure they will try to replace something in that time period to keep using some of those characters. So I’m not suggesting Discovery will be forever buried or anything. It will probably be like Picard and they have ideas of replacing something with it in that era like the possible Academy show.
But SNW is very new and has at least gained a lot in terms of popularity and certainly goodwill in the franchise. Could it be doing less numbers than Discovery? Sure, anything is possible, especially for people who are not big on prequels or the TOS era and just care more about shows going forward. And Discovery is going VERY forward lol. But I have a feeling SNW is attracting WAY more hardcore and older fans for obvious reasons. mostly because it’s traditional Star Trek again. And certainly the over 60 group or people who was around when TOS premiered.
And I think they probably do have a long term plan for SNW since they probably want to spin off more TOS characters in the future and use that show as a vehicle to do it. But I guess this is assuming they will keep at least three shows going in the future.
I’m not suggesting that SNW will be cancelled. All I’m saying is: We don’t know how much these shows cost. And even if we did know which one costs the most we don’t know how many people watch all of these shows. “1923” nicely illustrates that Paramount+ is willing to pay a lot if the returns are right. We don’t know how the Trek shows are doing. And I think that many of the guesses thrown around here are tainted by which shows the guesser likes or dislikes.
One thing no one has brought up that seems quite obvious to me — the studio is right in the middle of figuring out the P+-Showtime integration. Seems perfectly logical they are figuring out that first before the greenlighting of new seasons. And part of this might be figuring out which series or two to only include in the premeire package. For example, perhaps all you’ll get in the basic package is lower decks, prodigy and the legacy series, but if you want DSC and SNW, you have to buy the premeire package. And this would make sense given DSC and SNW are the most expensive shows in the franchise to produce right now (assuming Picard is ending).
It was discussed days ago that the upcoming Showtime merger might be the reason we haven’t heard about any renewals.
I don’t live in the US but isn’t the difference between basic and premium Paramount+ that one has commercials while the other does not?
That is for the existing P+ service. The new premium P+/Showtime service will include all of the Showtime series, and I think it’s possible they may move a couple of the Trek series into that package. And perhaps both Basic and Premium will have a commercial and no-commercials version that are priced differently — I guess we shall see?
It’s also possible that some of the shows may get the axe. If that’s the case, I would think LDS might get the axe given it’s limited, niche market. I think Prodigy and SNW are easily safe — those are market grower series, and Prodigy has a significant kids audience at Nick, in addition to P+.
And as I’ve pointed out in numerous posts recently, I would be really surprised if we get a Picard spinoff — I just don’t see that happening during this streaming service belt-tightening period given that I doubt that show is a market grower — it’s for older fans — and I don’t see a spinoff series with key cast in their 60’s and 70’s being able to make much of a business case argument to P+ right now given the belt-tightening.
So unfortunately, I think there will be no Seven series, no Janeway series, and LDS might be sunsetted prematurely.
My assumption would be that Paramount+ will integrate Showtime programming and then increase the price for both the basic (with commercials) and the premium tier (without commercials). But both tiers would have the same content library. That fits with reports that Showtime is cancelling a few low-performing titles, i.e. those which wouldn’t be profitable on the ad-supported tier of Paramount+.
And how convenient that the shows/characters you personally don’t like are the ones getting the boot in your scenario. No need to reply. Your constant crusade against certain parts of the franchise is well-known by now ;-)
Hmm. We’ll see, but I think it’s going to be much more like Disney and Hulu where you have to pay extra to get both within the same subscription account. I mean showtimes over $10 on cable on satellite TV so why on earth would they just throw it into P+ without a significant cost bump?
And, we’ll see as well on my admittedly self-serving scenario. (-;
I agree with you. I was only saying SNW, like Prodigy, is only a season old, so I imagine unless they are really hurting in the ratings or something they are probably fine. At least for now. But even I have said on another thread I think Prodigy is not doing as well as the other shows in terms of views, so yeah that could be on the chopping block after the second season has aired as well. I said that in another thread a few weeks ago when this topic was brought up. And that’s the show I want to stay the most.
And I literally pointed out the same thing about 1923 which has me a little less worried about it. Same time though, that probably is exceeding on levels they want. I could be wrong but I think 1923 is the first show, ever, they just tell us how many people are watching it lol. If that’s true, that tells you a lot. All the Trek shows we haven’t heard a peep how well they are doing by Paramount after 5 shows and 5 years.
But you’re right, we don’t know! We don’t know what most of them cost, how well their ratings are doing, the demographics that are watching them,what is important to P+ in terms of those demographics and on and on and on. I only guess that DIS and PIC cost the most because they been on the longest and obviously PIC has a ton of legacy actors on it now. Dude I’ve also made it clear I want the spin off show more than any other show, so trust me, I am trying to be objective here lol. Right? But yeah maybe that show cost less than SNW. That’s obviously possible as well.
But we’re all just speculating on a message board about something we don’t even know if any of the shows are actually leaving which I also pointed out. I have said I think they are all fine for now. But yeah it’s still weird none of them have been renewed yet. Hopefully we’ll hear something about them soon and they will all get more seasons.
It’s hard to know about Prodigy.
It’s a completely different profitability equation than for the rest of the series.
It may be a key entry in the kids streaming slice on Paramount+. Hard to know that one. What metrics there are are show it’s doing reasonably but not brilliantly, but those don’t distinguish adult from kid viewers.
Linear viewership of kids shows are down dramatically since the start of the pandemic.
Nickelodeon just isn’t doing well on linear now and it can’t bring in the ad revenue the way other linear does. It is however something that Comcast really wants in the basic bundle, so it has a big impact on the overall deal between Paramount and Comcast to carry Paramount’s content.
5 years ago access to Nickelodeon (and Disney) on cable was what kept or brought households with kids on linear in the US. Comcast really wanted Nickelodeon to stay as an anchor and get new content.
We experienced something similar here in Canada where we have a base of fantastic public children’s programming on linear and back then everything else for kids was on premium cable.
But once Disney+ launched and WildBrain hit YouTube, that changed.
Paramount+ is the only other major streamer that is significantly offering to the kids market. Kids are definitely part of P+ effort to be a streamer for all ages. So, they need to keep new content coming for families. Sponge Bob and Dora can’t carry everything.
Do you recall if prodigy on Nickelodeon is across the world wide network, or only in North America? That would make a pretty significant bump in the numbers if it’s on their European and other Nick networks/pay services.
Wow, per usual, really interesting info thanks. Yeah I don’t have a clue about any of this lol, so I just have to trust you and you know I do. And yeah hopefully the show is doing well or at least better in the area it’s suppose to mostly count in, with kids.
But it seems it’s doing worse for ware when it comes to adults which shouldn’t be a huge surprised if true, it is made for kids first. But if not enough of them are watching either I do fear it may pull a TAS and be done after it’s second season. But hopefully I’m wrong.
I love this show so much, it’s the only new Trek show so far I like more than some of the classic shows and really hope it goes for five seasons minimum.
Bro unlike Tiger2 I’m 100% biased! 😆
I have no problem saying I hope Picard and Discovery get the ax just for being awful shows if they have to cut anything and keep LDS, SNW and PRO because I love them.
But maybe my mind will change on Picard. I agree with everyone here I’m sure it will get a spin off show and I definitely want one of course. But it can’t just be anything it has to be good or don’t bother.
But if what everyone is saying about season 3 about Picard and it’s a hit I will be pushing for it hard! 👍
I think we will all be lol.
Oh no I want to make this completely clear, I’m definitely biased lol. If I had my specific choice of what went and what stayed, DIS and to lesser extent PIC would definitely be on that list too.
But in this case, it’s all nothing but idle talk on a fan board I don’t think anything more than a few dozen people even posts on, none of it matters in that regard. I’m certainly giving my honest opinion about something we really have no clue what is even happening, but that’s all it is regardless…opinion. And it could be totally wrong. Either way, we’ll see what actually happens in the next few weeks or months but I suspect it will be much ado about nothing in the end. But if I had it my way, SNW, LDS and PRO would definitely be the ones to stick around since PIC is going anyway.
And I also agree with you about the Picard spin off, it has to be good, whatever it is. But I think after the early stumbles of DIS and PIC, they are learning their lessons and we have seen that turn around from LDS to SNW. In fact I will argue every show has gotten stronger starting with LDS. None of them are perfect but they all have had stark improvement. I think they are on a great course to make the majority of fans at least satisfied they are getting a quality show if not still completely happy. SNW, IMO, has really sold that. And if Picard season 3 turns out even better than that, then I think we are in for a treat with the next 25th century show!
That’s me the eternal optimist speaking! :)
Totally with you! For the record I thought I was going to hate NuTrek forever. And I haven’t been happy with Trek since Voyager went off the air and I think I told you that was my first show It’s weird to know I waited 20 years to fall in love with a show (man I feel so old writing that lol) and it was with freaking LDS! I thought I would hate that show. If I can’t like Picard how am I going to like a silly cartoon??!!
I not only liked it I loved it! ♥️
I couldn’t figure out why and then it hit me… Kurtzman has nothing to do with it other than getting it on the air and thar alone probably saved it 🤣🤣
I keed people! The real answer they hired someone who gets and understands Star Trek and a good writer on top of it.
If Matalas manages to turn around my disdain for Picard then I hope this guy will be making shows for the next decade. Less Lifetime movie channel tripe like Discovery, more great shows like LDS and SNW.
For me, I love Star Trek so much, I’m going to watch it no matter what. And I have always made clear I have not loved every show out the gate either. It took me about a season before I really loved TNG but I was a fan from the start. So it was never a question I wouldn’t stop watching it, I was just happy for new Star Trek…and I was like 11 at the time lol. DS9 was my least favorite Trek show for years, today it’s my favorite for over 20 years now. I’ve told you my Enterprise story enough times at this point and yes also gave up early, but today I love it. Again I get why others don’t but Enterprise is pure Star Trek to me. But I will never forgive them for TATV!
The new stuff from the Kelvin movies to today have all been a mixed bag as well but I honestly like most of it now. Like you I wasn’t sure how I would feel about Lower Decks and now I want it to go seven seasons….and a movie!! ;D
I’ve always supported Kurtzman. Again I understand why others don’t like him or how he is taking the direction of the franchise but I have few complaints, honestly. Even if I never truly love Discovery I certainly can’t say they haven’t tried their hardest to make that show better. And I like mostly everything else, so that’s still an amazing track record IMO. We don’t have to like everything, that’s why there are five shows on now, you can stay with the ones you do like and ignore the others.
I’ll be honest I never liked Kurtzman, especially after writing the insanely bad JJ verse movies. And now this clown is running the entire franchise… but ironically not the movies. Well there are no more movies so that took care of itself I guess. 😁
But I don’t mind him so much now. The shows have gotten better. And they will probably stay that way as long as he stays far away from writing anything and let the show runners do their thing. He can do whatever he needs with Discover though. Go wild with that one..
I will also admit he does listen to the fans, I can’t deny that. It’s why TNG is even back. It’s why more Voyager is coming back. And he knows he mess up season 3, he’ll have to go into hiding. Or maybe just stay off Twitter for awhile. That’s probably more realistic. 😜
Not cheap but not 1923 level of expensive either. I agree that’s the right way to look at it Tiger2.
Last we heard, live action Trek shows were costing less than $10 million per episode (after production grants in California and Ontario).
1923 is running $30-35 million per episode. That’s coming up on about half of the cost of Picard season one.
The important calculation for Paramount is how big of a stable base of subscribers Trek contributes and whether those Trek fans are likely to drop P+ when they don’t get a continuous rotation of new Trek content year round.
As an aside, listening to Michelle Yeoh talk in a recent CNN a interview about how difficult it is to get a principal role as an older woman, let alone Asian, in something that provides action and adventure, makes me think that there’s still a serious chance that her S31 show will go forward. She wants exactly the kind of thing Mirror Georgiou (not Prime) offers as a complex character arc.
In fact, rather than pricing her out of the market, her success in awards season with EEAAO may make her all the more appealing to head a show for the streamer, given what they’ve shown themselves willing to do to bring A-listers to 1923.
Yeah it’s insane how much that show is costing! I mean remember when GOT was costing a whopping $10 million an episode just a decade ago. That used to be considered a crazy figure, but now that’s on the lower end of some of the big shows today. Seriously no wonder the streaming services are hitting these financial walls, they are throwing in a ridiculous amount of money against customers paying $10-15 a month and probably with a lot of churn as well. I never thought we would get shows that are now spending $60 million an episode (what the LOTR show cost on average).
But as for 1923, the fact they renewed it seems more of a good sign to me Star Trek will probably be OK if they are renewing shows with that kind of budget. Or maybe it’s just getting tons more viewers to justify it. And they also renewed Stallone’s show, also made by the same people and my guess that isn’t very cheap either.
Now I think about it, maybe Trek is in trouble lol. I mean they renewed two Sheridan shows in the last week but still not a peep about any of the Trek shows yet. Maybe they’ll just cancel all the Trek shows and just use that money for more Yellowstone shows lol. I’m kidding of course, but…
I’m completely unsurprised that any announcements on greenlighting anything in the Trek franchise is waiting on the premiere of Picard season three.
Paramount has been clear that its streamers will be built on the foundation of its franchises. Star Trek is always in the list for Paramount+. There’s not an inkling otherwise.
So, given Picard has had negative word of mouth coming out of S2, it seems pretty obvious that the strategy for the franchise and not just the show had to put promotional focus on getting building buzz for and getting eyes back on Picard.
They suits aren’t going to let anything divert focus on that.
They’ve even structured the release schedule to give Picard season a 6 week anticipation-building hiatus in franchise offerings to focus the hype. (It sounds like the hype is deserved, but the marketing is arguably the most intense we’ve seen in the current era.)
The hiatus also meant that Picard wasn’t competing with 1923 on the high end or the Teen Wolf / Wolf Pack genre releases.
Anson Mount was in the Mountain of Entertainment promotional ad with the Stallones is an exception. It seems to confirm SNW S2 will run after Picard, especially as Patrick Stewart had narrated the last set of P+ promos in the fall.
I am too about Picard. It’s obvious very obvious they want that show to continue in some form, it just sounds like they don’t know what that will be yet. My guess is they will just wait to see how well it does, what the fans are most attracted from that season and then decide on where to go with a new show.
Both Kurtzman and certainly Matalas lol has come out and stated they want to see more Picard because as stated that’s clearly what the majority of the fanbase wants. This isn’t even a real question in my mind. It’s all everyone is talking about. Sure, partly because it’s the next show in the rotation, but it’s also because it’s ending, the only one that we know will officially be gone and fans want to know what’s next. And if the season is a huge hit then clearly they will want more.
Now if it’s a complete dud and people are turning off mid season then yeah I’m guessing that would jeopardize the next show chances but it would probably have to be a huge dud of extreme proportions and so far the reviews have been stellar, I don’t see that happening.
I was only suggesting if all of this is truly a cost cutting thing OR they just think they don’t need as many Trek shows on, then yeah that might put in jeopardy in some form. But I think more Picard, in whatever form next, is a big part of Trek’s future going forward. That was made even more clear when Kurtzman and Stewart said a fourth season is now possible, a show they already told the world was ending last year. It’s only ending because Stewart wants it to end. But if third season is huge and Stewart decides he wants to come back (or they just throw more money at him lol) then maybe we’ll have another season or two of Picard after all.
It’s what everyone wants, the producers, actors and certainly the fans; we just want it to be better more than anything! Hopefully season 3 isn’t just smoke and mirrors like the first two ended up being and ends up being what Anthony said about the first episode, that it’s the most Star Trek show out of all the new shows so far. And exactly what RMB has been saying about the entire season since literally August. If that’s all true, the fans will be going nuts! I know I will. :)
I think Picard will be huge if the season is really good as people are saying. I don’t really care about Picard but I still want the spin off show, but like you said just be better.
For me as long as Lower Decks and Prodigy keep going I’ll be happy bro! And if Picard is good (this time) then maybe the spin off will be a huge hit.
Watching 12 Monkeys it’s obvious Matalas is a great writer. I have more faith now watching that show. They should let that guy run Star Trek unlike Kurtzman. 🙄
I’m SO happy another person has checked out 12 Monkeys and an instant fan of it. Even if Matalas never works a single day on Star Trek again, the fact that more people has checked out 12 Monkeys over it is totally worth it lol.
It’s exactly why so many of us was excited about season 2…and yeah. But now knowing the circumstances more and more behind that (for instance learning Matalas did’t come up with the story of season 2, it was already decided when he came on board) makes me feel a little better about season 3! And it’s totally his season now, so it’s put up or shut up time! And so far it’s sounding quite positive! But I’m still going to stay cautious until we are at least a few episodes in.
But I would be lying if I said I wasn’t totally excited, especially hearing how great the first episode is by Anthony and Laurie at least.
And I have no doubt SNW will be up next. These shows basically all air about a year apart season to season. I’m guessing SNW will appear in May or June like last year. It just depends if it will air right after Picard like last time or will they give it a six week break as they been doing recently. So maybe it will air in June if it’s the latter.
I am thinking that perhaps a simpler explanation is that the studio is currently knee-deep into the transition of the new P+-Showtime integrated service, and wants to solidify there approach to that before renewing more Trek seasons. And as I commented before, part of this might be figuring out which series or two to only include in the premiere package. For example, perhaps all you’ll get in the basic package is lower decks, prodigy and the legacy series, but if you want DSC and SNW, you have to buy the premiere package. And this would make sense given DSC and SNW are the most expensive shows in the franchise to produce right now (assuming Picard is ending).
So if the above is happening, the studio will want to figure out the projected revenue streams for the series based on where they fit in the new offerings…and then make decisions on renewals and an any immediate new series. I would assume we will get this info by March.
Yeah, a lot of fans don’t realize how expensive with inflated dollars these shows are getting now. I mean, I saw someone comment on another Trek web site recently that they should do new Trek theatrical release movies for less than $100 million budget. That’s just nonsensical, wrong, and way out of date — it’s laughable, but unfortunately is confuses other fans who read that misinformation.
Actually if you just keep the cost of a new Trek movie at the $190M cost of Beyond 7 years back, that’s in reality about a 30%+ budget cut already given today’s costs compared to 7 years ago, so that’s a more believable and achievable goal if you want to cut the movies a bit. It’s basic Econ 101 which unfortunately a lot of Trek fans just don’t seem to understand — because I keep seeing the same well-meaning, but misinformed BS claims about these ridiculously lower budget recommendations for the movies over and over across the several web sites where Trek fans comment. Some people just don’t understand how you compare dollars over time, and some just keep repeating the same budget numbers from years back and assuming they translate to budget levels today — this is unfortunate, and creates a lot of confusion.
Have you watched 1923? That does seem to be getting a lot of buzz. I’m not into westerns at all.
I haven’t managed more than 10 minutes of Yellowstone.
I’m Canadian and I really wonder how any of those shows have any audience whatsoever here.
All of the Yellowstone franchise shows just seem designed to hit all the American land grabbing ‘Manifest Destiny’, buttons that my country was literally created to protect us from (“Protégera nos foyers er nos droits” & “we stand on guard for”).
The threat of American notions of manifest destiny are one of the three axes of Canadian federalism. Our kids learn this in Canadian history in junior high. It didn’t change at all from what I got on the west coast to what our kids got recently in central Canada.
I know 1923 and the other Sheridan properties do well globally, but I can also see that they wouldn’t hit the same buttons as they do here.
Thanks for the response. It doesn’t interest me and I’m American. It seems very popular though.
I’m actually thinking about checking out Yellowstone now because another poster here recommended it to me. He says it’s good if not amazing and I don’t think he’s American either. He also said Tulsa King is good IIRC and I’m going to watch that one first since there are way less episodes lol.
I would not have any illusions that yellowstone gives a good impression of America and manifest destiny. If anything, it reinforces why that was bad idea. Most of the show is basically a more sophisticated version of the Dallas drama/soap series of the 80s in a modern-western environment — it’s sort of addictive in the way that after you watch it you want to take a shower because you know you’re wasting your time sort of rooting for this really dysfunctional and arrogant rich, redneck family. Lol
Also, while Canada may preach not having a manifest destiny thing like the misguided US had, I’ve been following the huge story of the cover-up of the huge numbers of mass graves of children from the indoctrination of indigenous peoples in Canada. None of the European powers and then the new nations who conquered North America have a record they can be proud of on how they treated the indigenous peoples,
Well, with the current events now i see Season 2 in an different light.
Imagine if people had judged TNG and given up on it after season 1 & 2
I’ve known quite a few fans who did just that. Can’t say I blame them.
I did exactly that. It was only the Best of Both Worlds cliffhanger that brought me back. It was only after that I realized that season 3 had many great episodes like “Sarek” and “Yesterday’s Enterprise”. From there on I was a fan of the show. The first two seasons were a big disappointment at the time.
The problem here is that they knew they only had 3 seasons of Picard at the very start so they really needed to have spent more time at the start to get the concept right. For me, seasons 1 & 2 were disappointing but I am looking forward to season 3. Hearing some good vibes so fingers crossed!
Re: the Showtime rebranding, they do need a slicker name than Paramount+ with Showtime.
They should try Paramount+ with Showtime All-Access Max.
That’s a long name! Probably needs shortening and paramount definitely needs to actually talk wit their marketing team
Thanks for another great podcast and so glad you both enjoyed the first Picard S3 episode. I’m always slightly nervous prior to the debut of a series I care about, in case it doesn’t meet expectations, but it sounds as if so far so good. I look forward to your reviews as the season progresses.
I am always nervous too! But now I’m just eager for more.
Great to hear.
If I heard you and Tony correctly, you are are going to review the first episode next week. I thought it didn’t come out until the following week (Feb 16th) so is this a spoiler free review?
We did a spoiler-free review this week (which is what came out on Friday), and then today we recorded our review for the first episode, but we won’t release that until the Friday after the show premieres. We needed to free ourselves up to watch more! So we meant we are recording a review now but we would never release that before the episode is out in the U.S.
Gotcha and thanks.
Finally listened to the podcast and WOW, your ‘review’ of the first episode really sounds amazing. Especially when Anthony said it’s the most Star Trek show we seen in ages. That is music to my ears. It sounds like they finally cracked it. Honestly I think most people felt that way with The Star Gazer episode last season too. It’s weird, season 2 of Picard is in my worst 5 seasons ever but that episode is probably easily one of my favorites since DS9 or VOY. That’s the thing, Picard has started very strong both seasons, it’s….later where it hit a snag.
But based on all the people whose seen either the full season or the first six episodes like you guys it is sounding like Trek at the top of its game. If we are getting 10 episodes like the Star Gazer, the show may finally be the one were hoping for in season one! I think this thing is going to draw in fans we haven’t seen in years IF the word of mouth really carries it beyond the first few episodes.
And also loved that Matalas wants to see future shows with Janeway, the Doctor and even Quark lol. You’re speaking for a lot of people out there Terry! We’ll see what the future brings I guess.
Tony and Laurie,
I’m glad you two are back. This podcast is part of my Saturday morning routine and it’s nice to hear your voices again.
First, Paramount+ with Showtime. Yikes! Who’s the genius at Paramount who thought that was a good idea? I thought the plus in P+ was everything else besides CBS and Paramount content.
Second, I couldn’t believe Annie Wersching passed away. I was stunned. We always talk about the disappointment of S2 Picard but some of the cast like Annie Wersching and Ito Aghayere were terrific. Annie’s Borg Queen was terrifying, menacing, and manipulative. Her expressions alone in the second episode were haunting. She was amazing.
I saw Anthony Rapp in the Psyche musical episode. Discovery should be the one with the musical episode. Rapp is terrific. I wish I could go and see him perform on Broadway.
Third, the trailer sold me. My hopes are up. Too late to be cautious now. I’m excited. I’m ready to see what Terry has created. I’m not a big TNG fan but I might be after this season. I can’t wait. It’s going to be glorious.
It is still shocking what happened with Annie Wersching. It sounded like another Chadwick Boseman situation and kept it private. Look, I’m not throwing out weird ideas but I wonder do they keep it secret because it’s just personal and they don’t want it to get out to the public or is it a more cynical reason and afraid they may not get roles if it was known? It’s just something I been wondering about.
Anyway it is sad. We’re only talking about her here because of her work on Picard but I realized I have been watching her for nearly 20 years now. Starting with her first appearance on Enterprise and then went on to do other shows I loved like ’24’ where is she is probably most known for and then Timeless, which was not just a great time travel show but she also starred on it with Borg queen #2, Susanna Thompson. They were both paired up together as well.
In fact I recommend everyone to check out Timeless if you haven’t watched it. Not AS good as 12 Monkeys but another underrated show. The time travel premise is more straight forward and takes place around actual historical events but shows a different side of them you don’t always hear about while involving a centuries old secret society who is, you guessed it, trying to change history. Her character is part of that group and she’s really good. And the time travel stuff also very loopy and fun the more it goes on. And Armin Shimmerman is an episode too.
I will check those shows out. And revisit her episode on ENT. Everyone speaks highly of her performances. I would like to get to know her through her work.
KevinB please check out Timeless if you get the chance! I really recommend it. And it only lasted two seasons before it was cancelled so it’s not even that many episodes. But it became this cult show where us dozens of Timeless fans who loved it from the start pushed and prodded NBC to at least wrap up the story line because it was abruptly cancelled and they gave us a TV movie. So that was really cool to do at least! And it has a real ending, don’t worry. Now she doesn’t appear in season one until the last few episodes, but she’s in every episode in season 2 and basically becomes the main villain. If you’re American it’s on Hulu and the movie is also there, it’s included with season 2.
And I rewatched that Enterprise episode a few days ago as well!
I am here to echo the “watch TImeless” sentiment. It should’ve run for years, it was a great show.
Thanks for the back up Laurie! I think you’re the second person online I met who watched it lol. And yep it should’ve ran for years. It felt like it was just getting started.
I’ll start with Timeless.
Good! I really hope you enjoy it KevinB. And at least give it three episodes, that’s when the conspiracy stuff starts to begin IIRC.
And now I’m thinking of rewatching it again lol.
I loved it from the first episode! I didn’t even care about the conspiracy stuff, I was in it for the time travel and the compelling characters, with the bonus of gorgeous production design and costumes. I loved all the side characters too.
Thanks for the recommendation of Timeless Tiger2.
It a show that I have been curious about, but given how possible it is to really mess up timey wimey serialization, I always seems to need the nudge of a recommendation.
Two others that I can recommend in turn are 1) Continuum (even if the principal character is exasperating, they carry it all through and land the ending); 2) Travelers, which at least had a mini fourth season on Netflix to wrap the story.
12 monkeys still indisputably rules the timey wimey subgenre though.
Thanks for the recommendations as well! :)
Now I kid you not, but I have Travelers listed on my watch list on Netflix…for nearly a year now lol. A co-worker suggested that show to me since she knew I was a sci fi dork and really love time travel stories and it sounded really interesting. So I had planned to watch it when I finished some other shows but never got around to it. But yeah I heard good things. I have heard a little about Contnuum but very little.
But OK, I want to try them. Which one should I try first? It looks like you are Continuum first.
I would say Continuum has more in common with 12 monkeys in terms of making it clear how the time travel and multiverse works as it goes.
Travelers has a different premise of people trying to fix the future by fixing the present. It works though. Also Eric McCormack is the lead, and an EP.
Both were Canadian shows that got canceled when our premium cable channel Showcase managed to wriggle out of the requirement to produce new scripted dramas. Continuum was ready to wrap anyways, Travelers needed the extra mini fourth season from Netflix.
Are you sure there are 4 seasons of “Travelers”? My Netflix only lists 3. Or is the 4th season still to be released?