Director Matt Shakman Talks About Why He Walked Away From ‘Star Trek 4’ Project

Last summer, director Matt Shakman stepped away from Star Trek 4 at Paramount Pictures after working on on the project for over a year. Not long after that, the studio pulled the film from their 2023 release calendar. Now, for the first time, Shakman is talking about his Trek exit.

Shakman talks Trek exit

Last August when Shakman left the Star Trek project, it was reported it was because he was going to helm a new Fantastic Four movie, a film set to start production early next year. In an interview with The Wrap, Shakman talks about how the Marvel project drew him away from Trek:

I had a great time working on ‘Star Trek’ for a little over a year, working closely with J.J. Abrams and everyone at Paramount, and I love that franchise, and I love that cast that J.J. put together, and it would have been an unbelievable pleasure to work with them on the fourth installment there. But movies have different journeys and momentums and and schedules are a little bit mercurial, and so when the ‘Fantastic Four’ opportunity came up, it was just too hard to pass up, and to go back home to Marvel, a place that I worked on ‘WandaVision’ at, with those people who are wonderful collaborators.

The director also drew some parallels between Fantastic Four and Star Trek:

… they’re both about optimism and looking to the stars and technology can solve everything and they’re about family too—the family you have, the family you make. So they’re aligned in many ways and speak to my heart.

Chris Pine, John Cho, and Karl Urban at the Star Trek Beyond premiere in 2016

Shakman’s comment regarding schedules being a “bit mercurial” when it comes to the Star Trek 4 project has been a running theme for members of the Kelvin movie cast. While all the actors have expressed their interest in returning for a follow-up to 2016’s Star Trek Beyond, a number of them have cited aligning schedules as a big issue, especially when it came to meeting Paramount’s originally announced plan to start shooting a movie last fall.

There is likely more to the story of why Paramount and producer J.J. Abrams have not yet moved forward with the production. A few months ago, Uhura actress Zoe Saldana suggested that scheduling wasn’t the only problem, saying, “I think as well it probably has something else to do with the project.” We are now coming up on the one-year anniversary of J.J. Abrams’ announcement that a fourth Kelvin movie was moving ahead during a Paramount Global investor day presentation. As of now, there is no clear picture of what’s next for Star Trek on the big screen.

Producer/Director J.J. Abrams with Chris Pine, Karl Urban, Zachary Quinto and Zoe Saldana on the set of the 2009 Star Trek movie

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The next Star Trek was always in limbo so he had to make a sensible.

And he definitely made a sensible. Paramount s not committed to Trek, the movies or streaming series.

The streaming side of Trek is definitely going well. It’s the movies that are suffering. Honestly, as much as I like the Kelvin Universe and the potential it always had (Discovery talking about someone coming over from the Kelvin U was totally a backdoor pilot plot point), I almost say just make film extensions of the shows again. It’s turning into a bad joke how these films keep stalling out after announcing great directors being attached.

I’d love to know the premise behind some these aborted projects such as Tarantino’s or Bob Orci’s.

Tarantino’s was supposedly a riff on “A Piece of the Action” and Orci’s was going to bring back Chris Hemsworth as Kirk’s dad, I guess through time travel or something.

Chris Hemsworth’s character was locked in a transporter buffer like Scotty from Relics. I think it worked for the Relics episode because Scotty had to purposely make it happen, not as an accident like Chris Hemsworth. So I’m glad that movie never happened.

Orci’s project predated the Kirk and dad project. He was working on an early version of what became Star Trek Beyond, although apparently the only piece of his project that actually was in the produced movie was the big space station.

Yeah IIRC the premise of Orci’s version of Beyond was Kirk and Spock have an opportunity to undo the Kelvin timeline or something like that and have to decide what to do or something like that?

Edit: just saw you talked about this more below ha

Yes, the Hemsworth plot came from the Mormon writers.

Calling out the religion of the writers is weird and inappropriate.

It really is weird. I wonder about people who do that.

Outside of satisfying one’s curiosity, those projects are dead and buried.

Until they’re not

Even the guy who wrote the Tarintino movie said it only had about a 10% chance of it happening when he talked about a year ago and that was probably being generous. It sounded too niche and not something you probably spend $100 million on. I still think they should make a graphic novel out of the story or something.

That’s actually a capital idea. IDW did a great job with adapting Ellison’s original “City” draft, so why not this? Not a Kelvin-verse fan, but am of Tarantino’s work, and would definitely check that out.

Yeah I don’t see why not? Obviously the movie is deader than dead and this wouldn’t be the first time a Tarantino screenplay was turned into a graphic novel either. Django Unchained had a graphic novel as well which I read back in 2014. It’s actually based on the original screenplay that had some changes from the movie.

That’s why I thought about it. IDK, but I think it should at least be pitched to him and the screenwriter and would get tons of fans to buy it if they did make it. And it wouldn’t cost $100 million to make it either. ;)

Orci has appeared several times on these message boards to give bits about his aborted movie. It was about Prime timeline Shatner and Nimoy Kirk and Spock teaming up with Kelvin Kirk and Spock to stop a renegade bad guy from altering timelines and destroying universes. Orci said that he was in discussions with Bryan Cranston to play the bad guy

Tarantino’s project was a riff on “A Piece of the Action”. He chastised Simon Pegg for saying it was not “Pulp Fiction in Space” by saying that in some ways it was like that. The co-screenwriter, the guy who wrote The Revenant, was on a podcast saying that he and Tarantino spent a lot of time watching gangster movies to prepare for the movie. Those are the only concrete details that I have seen about the project.

Just one guy’s opinion, but I would’ve been thrilled to see both of those.

I would love to see the QT Trek movie. Who knows, maybe the studio comes back to that.

I’m not gonna be one of these fans who always says NEVER or DEAD on stuff, because those types of emotional fan pronouncements have been shown to be wrong and wrong again over the years in many cases.

The Orci one interested me a lot more. Of course I would’ve saw them both but neither happened for a reason.

I’m not sure I would have made the effort to see either one in theatres.

The Tarantino concept sounds lame actually.

The Tarantino idea sounds very lame to me too TG47…and obviously to Paramount.

With Orci, he was bringing back Shatner and Nimoy together on screen again since TUC. I mean, it would’ve had to been (sorry) beyond bad not to get me to show up opening weekend. ;)

Maybe the screenplay sucked, but I still think that was a missed opportunity and probably would’ve earned way more money because it was actually honoring the 50th anniversary (sorry again) beyond ‘here’s just another Star Trek movie with another tired uber-villain’ we got and why very few people cared in the end. And Beyond is my favorite of the three…but I don’t pretend it’s anything special either.

yeh that was the film to do for the 50th.

If I was Paramount id simply dust off the Orci ST3, deage Shatner to VI/Generations age for a few scenes (like Ford in Dial of Density), also work in Hemsworth for an extended cameo (c’mon Chris..Trek gave you the foot in the door that got ya Thor, surely a couple days cheap so they can stick your face on the poster/trailer be ok). plus get Cranston as the villain, Alice Eve back as Carol (for hotness factor along with Zoe, and possibly a new Saavik). The timeline plot (with big implications for the ST Universe) be more relevant than ever now with forthcoming Flashpoint and Avengers multiverse saga, (plus Everything Everywhere At Once about to clean up at the oscars). And get the cast in the (kelvin style) movie maroon uniforms as they’d now be in that era, (and to differentiate it from the previous films especially Beyond) plus no Apple store bridge now. Budget 150m max (still alot but not as much as ID/Beyonds crazy Avatar size budgets)

LOL man, I love your constant push for this idea. You know I have major doubts about it but I would love to at least hear fully what Orci’s script was at least.

its all i have…

C’mon, no it’s not! You like most of the shows right? And if you believe the reviews, Picard is going to knock it out of the park for a change.

It’s no sense pining for a 2 hour movie every 3-9 years? Seriously if they greenlit another movie today it would probably come out 9 years the soonest after Beyond did lol. And then we finally get the movie and it’s another uber-villain with a big ship trying to wipe out a solar system or something. But the FX will probably look amazing. ;)

Oh yeah anticipation wise for me Picard s3 is basically like if they’d made another TNG movie (a bang uptodate big budget Force Awakens style ‘legacy sequel’ working in all the post JJ aesthetic stuff etc, I guess s1/2 were that too but this time it really is like a full on TNG film – ‘TNG Into Darkness’ by looks of it :) I dont bother with the toons , tuned out of Disco after s2, and now waiting to see SNW on dvd and Pic s3 when its out on blu (as still don’t stream).. I literally just finished Pic s2 on blu and overall kind of liked it! (except some of the drag midway eps). bit like s1 lots of negativity in the fanbase but when finally watched it on blu (a year after everyone else) thought it was pretty good..

But for me Trek is a movie series first and foremost, as thats just what i grew up with in the 80s/90s, with TOS and then TNG series kind of in the background to the films for me, seeing them now&then at 6pm on BBC2, (obviously i eventually really got into both later with vhs then dvd but it was still the films that remained ‘paramount’ for me), and Orcis ST3 to me felt as if it was going to be like a culmination/all roads led here/’endgame’ of the Trek movies (after bob orci later revealed elements of the plot) I wouldve loved that and been so looking forward to Shatner coming back (after being teased in ST09) and dealing with the timelines under threat from a Soran like villain, it just sounded like the perfect Trek film to do for the 50th, building on/resolving threads from the previous 2 films and even Shatners unsatisfying demise. basically kind of like another ‘Generations’ (but hopefully done right). but instead it got trashed and we got Beyond which to me just felt like a bigger version of Insurrection with the original characters and influenced by Marvel/Guardians (and i was ‘beyond’ disappointed)

OK, I definitely see your point now. You’re just more geared towards the movies and none of the streaming shows seem to have really won you over.

And for the record, even though I wasn’t very excited about what was coming next after STID, I was still interested in the next movie and I think Orci at the time felt he had to prove he could do more with these movies than just more shoot-em-ups with over-the-top villains and wanted to make a more ‘thoughtful’ movie and obviously some big fan service for the 50th. So I was looking forward to what was next. But then once he and his ideas were dumped for Pegg and Lin, yeah it no longer felt as interesting. Again, I was obviously going to support whatever they did, but it was disappointing Orci’s clearly more ambitious idea got dumped for basically a $200 million TOS episode.

In the end, I liked it though and to this day it’s my favorite of the three but I have watched it the least out of the three which says something. And once it failed at the box office, I just think there has really been no real direction to not just these movies, just the movies in general. Paramount has no real ideas and they just seem to push for one because it’s obviously a famous IP they can squeeze some money out of but no vision at all. The fact they have come up with so many ideas from so many director and writers for years now prove how rudderless it all is today and why I care even less about them.

That’s why I don’t hold my breath anymore because they are clearly not serious about making another movie. Someone said it on another board, why not just hire someone as an overseer and build a real direction where they can go in the next decade. Put a real plan in motion and actual money behind it. They don’t do that because that would cost real money and time. These movies feels so aimless for this reason.

In other words, there is no passion for these movies at all the way there is at Marvel with the MCU movies. It’s just something they can put on their slate and increase their output. That’s why I don’t buy the multiverse idea you keep pushing, because that would require a real vision no one at Paramount seems to remotely have. No one seems remotely that invested in doing anything beyond a simple one off adventure that can get enough people to watch, make some money and go from there if it’s successful enough. Also why there has been five fucking directors; they are just going where the wind takes them basically and not thinking beyond right now.

Because to me, it’s been obvious for awhile now Paramount doesn’t view them as a real IP the way they do their bigger ones and really just trying to find a way to make some money off of it, but not really cultivate anything long term since it never made them the money they wanted from it and the next one can bomb again. If the movies did real money, everything would be different today I imagine.

Unfortunately it’s the opposite of that and why it’s been 14 years and only three films with middling box office to show for it.

I shouldn’t have used the term real IP, a better way of saying it is a valuable IP. It’s not something they see that they can mold the way they do Transformers or the Mission Impossible series. It just feels more like an after thought for reasons stated above.

Me too. It sounds really crazy, but, hey, the writers made it work for Spiderman No Way Home!

“Orci has appeared several times on these message boards to give bits about his aborted movie. It was about Prime timeline Shatner and Nimoy Kirk and Spock teaming up with Kelvin Kirk and Spock to stop a renegade bad guy from altering timelines and destroying universes. Orci said that he was in discussions with Bryan Cranston to play the bad guy.”

That sounds interesting. I assume that Prime Kirk would somehow be snatched out of time before his death on Veridian 3 in Star Trek Generations? Cranston as the bad guy? Sign me up!

I’d like to know more about Orci’s story.

Abrams has yet to get a feature film going on any front for the last few years. He may be a factor here.

That’s been my feeling all along.

Initially, I thought it was because he was preoccupied with other things.

Now, it seems that there is something else at play.

His contract with Paramount cinematic side must be just about running out the clock though.

I note that Paramount brought Abrhams himself to speak to the investor meeting where the (premature) announcement of the movie and a scheduled date. They seem to be giving Abrams every opportunity to self-incriminate on the non-delivery of this film.

Given all his other new planned stuff has not materialized, maybe he really needs to do a Trek movie now to keep his career and reputation as A-list (deserved or undeserved) genre Director moving along?

His star has definitely fallen a bit, but I don’t think a ST feature is the thing juice his career. It’s a midlist franchise and he would need a monster hit to get some of his lustre back, but none seem to be in the offing. Not much seems to be going his way at Warner Brothers Discovery (Bad Robot has a nine figure deal there), either. There were reports several months ago that David Zaslav (WB Discovery honcho) was none too happy with Abrams (over his lack of output).

Do you really that you actually just kind of made my case why he should do another Trek movie? ;-)

Abrams has only destroyed Star Wars and Star Trek according to most fans, it’s not a shock why the DC stuff is blowing up in his face too. At this rate, he’ll be lucky if he can get an Aquaman cartoon happening on HBO Max.

His Superman film never happened either, and DC is being rebooted again with Gunn.

Which is a very good thing in my opinion. I didn’t care for Abrams Superman movie.

At some point all those Star Trek 4 Directors should get together and make a documentary or anthology or something :-D

“The Unmaking of Star Trek 4″

It would definitely have an audience.

Jabberwosky‘s Star Trek. ;-)

That was a good business decision on his part…(IMO)

definitely. No matter how good a Star Trek 4 film he might have made, he’s guaranteed to make a bigger splash with MCU Fantastic Four. He’s no dummy.

Putting an entire year of one’s prime working life into a project, then walking away is never an easy decision.

It makes one suspect that he was increasingly concerned that the project would never be completed.

I’d bet it was an easy decision. When you’re checking in with the suits on a project like this, and the only feedback you’re getting is “let me get back to you on that”, it’s real easy to move on to other projects.

Not only that, but I think the superhero fluff sort of movie is more in his comfort zone

Considering they pulled it off the schedule after he left because it reportedly had no budget, a finished script and not a single actor signed on, I think he was right lol.

Now he’s busy as ever with projects that actually has the light of day of happening. Paramount is basically trolling everyone because they either don’t have the money to make a movie or don’t have faith it will make money. Neither one is good.

Paramount is basically trolling everyone because they either don’t have the money to make a movie or don’t have faith it will make money

Quite possibly both.

Definitely both!

Someone said this before which makes a lot of sense now, they probably make these announcements with the intent of making them obviously but that probably comes with huge caveats and getting other investors interested in financing them and it probably fails over and over again. It’s for a very simple reasons, these movies are just not seen as viable enough, at least for what they cost.

So yeah, if that’s true, then obviously both arguments are true.

Given he’s probably best at superhero fluff projects, I can’t disagree with you.

Pat Ste wants a movie so .. why not? Kirk got his death so seems natural Picard gets a glorious death too? They could have another passing of the baton sort of movie using Stewart as the anchor to a new cast, or to relaunch the kelvin cast if they must.

Did he not get a glorious enough death in season 1 of Picard? (Please don’t answer that.)

Well, funny that. I’d totally already forget he ‘died’ in P . S1.
Probably best we all forget that particular issue. What was the point of turning Picard into an android? Its like if they’d killed Riker in TNG near end of the series and Frakes stays as the Tom character.

…(Please don’t answer that.)

LOL. Hardly.

Picard died already, in season one. The current Picard is an automaton based on Picard.

Well if you really pay attention to season one, not only did his mind migrate, but so did his quantum soul signature (basically his Katra), so the new being is most definitely Picard still.

They said his consciousness was transferred before his brain failed. It’s still the same Picard. Unlike in TWOK/TSFS where the Spock the audience had actually been seeing since the TOS died. That consciousness died and a copy was placed into a regenerated body. It was no longer Spock right? Just a copy based on Spock.

Kirk’s death in Generations was lousy, so if I were Stewart, I’d beware of what I wished for!

The universe does not want another Kelvin Star Trek movie. The Kelvin universe is a distraction from how Trek has been thriving on streaming. It’s better to use the movies to advance that.

You’re speaking for the entire universe there? There are plenty of people who wouldn’t mind another trip to the Kelvin universe.

If it was going to happen, it would have by now. At this point, if it finally does, it’ll be nothing more than a curiosity. The kind of movie you pass by while flipping channels and lamenting that “there’s never anything good to watch on”. That’s why it’s important to “strike while the iron is hot”. For the Kelvin timeline that was before Star Trek Discovery. Now, the streaming series have flown past it at warp speed.

“Now, the streaming series have flown past it at warp speed.”

Not just that. Disco cheated using spore drive :-) The Protostar got there with her Protodrive :-) So yeah, the KT has been too slow… naturally…

Indeed, heh.

That’s a little glib, but I still tend to agree. If there was going to be another Kelvin-verse movie there would have been one by now. At best, those films mainly served as a catalyst to get Trek back to television, for better or worse.


Agreed, Phil. I certainly would like another Kelvin movie. This dude does not speak for all fans.

It’s not just fans Paramount needs. They need the general moviegoing public too, and it’s clear that Paramount doesn’t think enough of them would go to justify spending $100+ million (if they can even get their hands on that kind of money for a ST feature). If they did, they could rustle up the money and make the movie. Not only have they not made the movie, from where I’m sitting it doesn’t look like they intend to make the movie.

Hey, while you’re at it, Mr. Universe, can you tell me the meaning of life?

It’s 42 obviously – er, 47 if the answer to Trek life.


There are people who obviously want another movie but the question is is it enough of them to make it successful? I think Paramount has answered that question five times now. ;)

Indeed. Like I said, if it was going to happen, it would have by now. A studio is not going to wait for “schedules to align” to make a movie they believe will be profitable. They MAKE them align.

Also agreed. They have no faith in the movie for good reason…they simply think it’s not enough people to support it, hence it could bomb again. That’s just the reality and I don’t remotely blame them for that. If Beyond made what any of the Mission Impossible films made for example, any of them, we would probably had another one by now, even if was at a reduced budget.


How about a 10 episode series on Paramount with the Kelvin cast – give us a planet of the week (like first 15 min of Into Darkness) with this group – maybe wrapping with a big idea/meta Trek episode. The cast is so good – would be ashame to waste them.

Likewise, we could pick up post VGER (given ages of actors now) and show what happened on this second 5 year mission

That’s a great idea, but filming a ten-episode series takes a long time, and a lot of these actors have very heavy schedules. I’m not sure Pine or Saldana would want to be tied up for that long…

I’m not sure either Pine or Saldana would want to do a ST series at this point in their careers.

They already have a new cast. I’d be thrilled if they used the strange new worlds cast and continued Tos, except for my reservations about Wesley Kirk. KT is dead.

Perhaps when they’re older and in less demand — say 10 years from now — I could see this. happening.

That probably has a much better chance at happening than another movie.

The movie is about as real as Star Citizen. Its not real. Lets be honest vaporware. JJ had no movie.

Its about budget more than anything else for sure…..!

Good riddance. His Bewitched reboot called WandaVision was an overrated soap opera, and now he’s making a new movie that almost no one wants to see.

I think we dodged a bullet here.

WandaVision was a pretty great analysis of grief and depression set in the MCU imo.

Exactly my point — and that’s not why I go to see a superhero movie — but also I thought it was more soap opera-like than a great analysis of grief. Plus it was basically a Bewitched reboot, with another witch in the same city and a Gladis Kravitz like neighbor. And bewitched was more enjoyable to watch.

And if that wasn’t bad enough I had to watch all of that character’s fakey emotional BS again in the recent Doctor Strange movie… which I still want my $15 back from

Did you actually watch Wandavision, or just the second episode?

I ask that because the first episode was referencing The Dick Van Dyke Show and I Love Lucy, the second episode was Bewitched, but also I dream of Genie, the third was The Mary Tyler Moore Show/The Brady Bunch etc. etc. etc. Every episode referenced sitcoms from a new decade, not just Bewitched.

You say your problem with the show as that it’s just a reboot of Bewitched. But… maybe you didn’t get it but that was kinda the whole point of the storyline. That’s like saying I don’t like Star Trek Discovery because it’s a remake of Star Trek.

When Wanda was young her and her family would watch US sitcoms. They watched everything from I Love Lucy all the way up to Malcom in the Middle and Modern Family, both to bond and to learn English to one day leave the war torn region. Then their house was bombed while they were watching an episode of The Dick Van Dyke Show and her parents died. Then her and her brother were captured and that’s where she got her powers, and while imprisoned she’d watch The Brady Bunch. Then later on when freed her bother died and finally her partner Vision died too.

Because Wanda lost every person that she ever loved she went back to the only constant in her life : Sitcoms. She purposefully recreated them because of their unrealistic portrayal of idealic family life to create the perfect life that she didn’t have, complete with children and a husband, who subconsciously she was grieving. All the while the towns people were held captive and essentially reduced to being puppets in her fantasy world.

IDK I thought there was a lot to love about it all. From the simple stuff liek the set design through the different eras to the general concept. It was way more inventive than the usual superhero fare and an interesting way to deal with grief and loss as nkc pointed to.

I’m glad that all worked for some. I was groaning an laughing all the way through that. I also have a fundamental issue with the Scarlet Witch character — I think it’s a silly character, and I can never quite suspend my disbelief when watching.

But then they had to go ahead and deal with all of her whining, emotional and vindictive BS again in the Dr. Strange Movie last year. I was really looking forward to that movie, and the trailer did not give the impression that it would be so focuses on Scarlet Witch, so that really pissed me off with Marvel, which I am kind of done with now (saw the new Thor for free on an airplane and that was kind of meh).

I hope that character is gone for good now — I just can’t stand her whining, fakey character. But sure, IDIC, I know some liked it.

And I’m kind of done with superhero’s right now — both Marvel and DC. I though the new The Batman was overated and is a shadow of the great Nolan movies, and also inferior to the underrated Snyder movies. The Joker thing was a well done film, but not fun, and I would never re-watch it because it’s basically joyless.

Translation: Fantastic Four was actually happening and it probably paid better anyway.

If he was ‘working’ on the next Trek movie, it would’ve still stalled considering they took it off the calendar months ago and all.

This exactly, I’m sure this is what it mostly comes down to. Not to mention Marvel and Disney are a fully functioning and healthy studio while Paramount is….not. Paramount is kind of like the home owner who is just getting quotes from many contractors, but they really don’t know what they want or if they can afford it. Either way, nobody really wants to work for a flakey client.

To be a little fair to Paramount, when they have projects with sure bets like Mission Impossible and Transformers, they seem to get it together quite easily over and over again.

But when it comes to making another Trek movie, then it becomes dysfunction of the highest order because they have no idea where to take it next, how to even treat it and probably have no real faith in it since none of the Kelvin movies made any real money in the theaters and the last one bombed.

It’s amazing nearly seven years on now and they still seem just as clueless with this franchise and that probably won’t change anytime soon.

I agree, but Mission Impossible has Tom Cruise, if that wasn’t the case they would be fumbling that one too. The Kelvin-verse likely won’t have enough audience retention to sustain further releases so they either have to try it again after a failed sequel, or start over. I understand their ambivalence. Like many here, I think Star Trek prestige movies are probably a thing of the past and it’s going to take years of really successful streaming shows before they can really come back to the theater. Maybe SNW is the key, but it’s going to take years to know that.

Once the Hemsworth movie died because they were too cheap to pay him and Pine, that really told you everything and they should’ve started over from that point on (and to be fair they did try with Noah Hawley’s idea) because they no longer had faith the Kelvin films were viable. You don’t try to cut down your star’s salary unless you think the next film could be a turkey. And clearly that still seems to be the case.

If they can’t make a Kelvin movie for around $130 million or less (which is what they should be made for given how much money they actually pull in) then start anew with a new crew and less money to boot. They all realize now these movies aren’t going to be Marvel, but it’s probably why there is no motivation to make one. I understand the ambivalence as well when you are making a movie that probably won’t do anymore than $400 million. And that’s if you’re lucky considering two of the three films made even less than that.

A Star Wars or MCU movie would never even get made with that kind of projection. Neither would a Transformer or Mission Impossible movie either. There is just no real enthusiasm for these movies anymore beyond us hardcore fans and I don’t even know how many of them even care anymore.

Excellent summation. It’s hard for people who hang out on ST forums to sometimes comprehend, but ST is just not broadly popular, and it’s not commercially reasonable for Paramount to make an expensive feature film given that reality.

Nah. Make a good movie and market it correctly, and it will make money. It won’t make Marvel $, but there is no reason a good Trek movie can’t top $500 Mil easily today.

Trek movies at about $200 million budget (which is realistic, and actually would represent a 25% budget cut given today’s dollar value compared to 7 years ago) will make money. They won’t make Marvel $, but over time, the $$ keep coming in, so they all eventually get well into profitability. Some fans have simpleton views and only count the initial box office — that’s silly.

I think most fans do understand it, they just still want to see another one. I do too obviously but these movies just don’t make enough to really be worth it I guess. I’m not suggesting they go back to the lower budget TOS/TNG days but we got 10 of those films because the expectations weren’t too high outside of TMP and we got a continuous run of movies because of that.

I don’t see another movie happening for a few more years at best until they come up with something more profitable or doesn’t rely on huge box office. I mean it’s already been seven lol.

If they can’t make one for cheap then they shouldn’t bother because it will probably bomb. These movies have less hype than the Fantastic Beasts movies and they stopped making those.

And those movies made way more than these movies ever could! 😆

Agreed! It will probably be 7 more years to make another one because no one cares about more Star Trek movies.

If you make them cheaper like the TOS maybe they get it made at least?

No one wants to spend over $150 million on another dud.

That’s actually part of the problem, if you make them TOO cheap like the TOS films (but it would equal todays inflation) then it’s probably not viable because it ca’t compete with the big boys.

It will make a profit but probably not at the level Paramount wants unless there is a huge word of mouth. But if you make them too expensive then they can make more but still can lose money or bomb again.

That’s why the movies are DOA today. Unfortunately the mid-budget movies of the 80s and 90s are gone unless it’s Oscar bait type of stuff or horror movies.

If you geared them towards Paramount+, you can make them much cheaper since you’re not trying to eek out a lot more money, but I don’t think they want to just do a P+ Star Trek movie anytime soon.

I do wonder if they decide to make a TNG movie instead, how much would they be willing to spend? I don’t think anything over $130 million is smart for any Trek movie right now. At least until they can prove they can be more viable than Beyond was and I have my doubts on even that 7+ years later and no interest beyond us oldies watching them regardless of the cast.

Or maybe a TNG reboot movie but I really really hope not.

I think most fans would prefer a TNG movie but it would still be the same problem that JJ verse has and that none fans won’t care at all.

But you don’t have to spend $150 million for a TNG movie either. You can probably do it for $100 million.

But I agree it’s ridiculous to spend a lot of money for any movie because it will probably bomb. And Paramount knows it too. So do all their investors. Why invest in another possible flop??!

Maybe they won’t just make a Paramount+ movie but it’s probably where most people will watch it anyway.

I’ll definitely see it in the theater but it probably be like when I saw Beyond again and only 50 people in the theater with me. 😆😥

No joke that’s how many it was watching on a Saturday night. It was the second weekend though but that’s when I knew this turkey was cooked! 🤣

I agree, I think more hardcore fans would prefer a TNG movie only because everyone is so divisive on the whole Kelvin universe thing. And if Picard hits big this year then I see a lot of people calling for one.

But I don’t think a TNG movie would do better than a Kelvin movie because yeah a TNG movie have more baggage for newer fans. But I don’t think newer fans will care that much about either anyway, but certainly more overall for a Kelvin movie IMO. Especially if they keep it to the Marvel/Star Wars style as the others.

But regardless if it’s a TNG or Kelvin movie (or my real pick, something NEW) they would still all have to be a $100 million minimum to keep it at a mid-tier level. But if they just did a Paramount+ film, then they can definitely go lower…and should.

I actually saw Beyond twice in the theater, the first time at the Mann Chinese theater opening day. It was only 2/3rds full which I knew was not a great sign at all. Usually when a Trek movie opened at the Chinese theater, they usually sell out opening day or near capacity at least.

And I don’t mean all day, it’s not Star Wars lol, but usually one or two shows sell out at least and not a single one for Beyond at opening. In fact we just walked up and got our tickets forty minutes before show times to the very first showing, which usually are the ones that sell out in advance. The other two films prior we had to get them at least a few days in advance.

I’ve seen 5 of the films there and only TWO movies didn’t sell out on opening day: Beyond and Nemesis.

So it really tells you a lot. ;)

Second weekend we went again to a local AMC that time and it was only a quarter full. I knew then it was going to bomb.

I agree. I don’t think big fans can face reality. But Paramount certainly does and why they are staying far away from making another big dud.

Use that money for Bumblebee 2. It will actually make money.

I suspect another Trek will probably come to Paramount+ in maybe a few years. Or maybe go to the theater for a month first.

No joke I like Bumblebee. The other movies were pure trash but the first one was Ok.

I would prefer another Bumblebee movie instead more JJ verse nonsense. And that would actually make money, so…..

Mission:Impossible movies also do very well overseas; ST movies don’t.

Not true. The last two Trek movies did significantly better internationally than in North America. Heck, Into Darkness brought in nearly $240 Million internationally, and that would be equivalent to about $325 Million today if you adjust the dollars to today’s values.

because ‘sherlock’ was in it, a big tv star worldwide.
then they hid idris elba aka ‘luther’ under tons of make up and lost that advantage with ‘beyond’

Plus Fir beyond they did a horrible marketing job, and also moved the release date inexplicably to coincide with the Summer Olympics

Mission Impossible movies have always been bigger overseas. The last one did around $570 million abroad alone. That made over $230 million than Beyond’s total box office, let that sink in.

That’s why Paramount is making two MI movies back-to-back while they keep the Trek movies on the back burner for over 5 years now.

Huh? Multiple franchises: Mission Impossible, Transformers, Indiana Jones, Kung Fu Panda, Scream, Sponge Bob, TMNT and Star Trek.

only M:I. indy KFP and ‘scream’ are sure things for the studio right now

I will still include Transformers in that. Yeah the last Bay movie stumbled, it still made over $600 million. The Star Trek films would die for something that remotely close.

There’s a new transformers movie and the new kung fu panda movie in the works.

Incidentally, if you adjust the box office take for STID for inflation, and do the same for the last Tranformers movie, STID Actually outperformed Bumblebee by about 10% of global box office.

So yeah, the Star Trek franchise can do box office on the level of lesser transformers movie. This illustrates once again why it’s important to be educated in terms of the economics of the dollar value of movies over time.

that not good news for ‘bumblebee’ or the TF series as they hoped to do spin offs, hence the need to go back to the main film timeline

Well, if you compare adjusted boxoffice takes, you should also compare adjusted budgets. STID may have outperfomed Bumblebee slightly if you account for inflation, BUT it also cost about 50% more than Bumblebee if you account for inflation. So there is your problem: The Star Trek movies are too expensive for the boxoffice they bring in.

Yep, exactly!

They need to just go ahead and sign Frakes to direct it already.
He’s said time and time again he’s up for directing another Trek film.
and even let JJ know that as well.
he’s a good director, fans love him, the studio loves him….
so just make it so already

It’s crazy the amount of real talent that has been attached to Star Trek 4 and Paramount still couldn’t make it happen.
And the amount of LOST talent that has come and gone. Such a shame really.

This guy is a loss. He’s a great director, particularly of big-budget and complicated set pieces.
Anyone who has seen the absolutely epic loot train attack from “The Spoils of War” episode of Game of Thrones will understand how talented this guy is. I think some refer to it as The Battle of the Goldroad too.

I didn’t know he directed that! He’s the real deal, no doubt; I thought “WandaVision” was great. I’m pretty happy that’s doing “Fantastic Four,” to be honest; if Trek 4 had to die in order for that to happen, that’s fine by me.

Fantastic 4 would probably double what another Star Trek movie would do at the box office. It’s not exactly a tough decision which one to choose, especially when it’s a guarantee F4 will actually happen.

It’s liable to double that in its first weekend alone. I think a good new Trek movie could be a hit, but another one that excites nobody outside the fanbase might fail to hit $100 million. F4 is a guaranteed hit even if it’s not all that great; if it hits its potential, that’s a billion easy.

I agree fully. I think a Trek movie can be a hit, but it’s very very risky regardless and everyone seems to acknowledge that or shall I say almost everyone. ;)

But it’s not even a contest if it’s going up against F4. That’s probably going to make a $6-700 million minimum, because that’s literally what every Marvel film has made in the last 5 years, not counting the movies released when the pandemic was still a big factor like Black Widow or Shang chi. But all their films prior to that and in 2022 has made that.

The Kelvin movies have never reached $500 million. Sure it can reach that, but I still suspect even in the best outlook for any future film it will fall below it.

MCU still has a fanbase that will see pretty much anything. Star Trek has that too but the numbers are sadly far below. Even if the last Trek movie didn’t die on a vine, I still couldn’t blame Shakman for jumping ship if he Marvel called him. It’s just waaaaay less risk and much more reward.

Mark my word, Fantastic Four will be a box office dud. You are the first person I know who actually seems excited about the project. A marginal comic book series, three bad movies so far, and this poor dude had to take this instead of Trek because P could not get their act together.

Put a fork in it already — the new F4 movie is a bomb waiting to happen. Almost no one in the comics fan world wants this movie. I will be shocked if it tops $150 mil globally — heck, it will be lucky to hit 1/3 of the box office of the last couple Trek movies. LOL

Not only will I not mark your word, I wish I had a way to make your comments not appear at all. They are worthless.

Suit yourself. I simply state my opinions and I will not engage in personal drama BS.

That being said, if I hurt your feelings on Fantastic Four, I do apologize for being overly harsh on the upcoming movie, but it’s nothing different than many similar opinions you will find elsewhere on the reboot.

Fox dropped the ball with FF though the tim story films are ok

this time it will get the care and attention the FF deserve under the MCU banner.
they have proved they can make any of the marvel characters into must see and preserve what was great about them from the comics

There’s always hope. I hope for the fans’ sake they surprise me and you get a good movie.

I’ve stopped paying for Marvel movies given the downturn in quality post Infinity War, and the awful Doctor Strange movie I watched year was the last straw for me spending on that franchise…fool me four times, shame on me…lol

I will see the new Deadpool movie though.

you didn’t like it, fine, but MCU movies are still hits and i see no different happening with their version of FF.
i hear ‘wakanda forever’ is worth a watch

This guy is a huge talent. It’s almost comical he wasted a year on a dead franchise that probably would’ve made about what a typical Jim Carrey movie makes these days.

Now he’s back at Marvel, a place with a fan base and money.

JJ verse is dead because only fanboys cares about it and that gets less and less every year.. Let it stay dead!

Or just make it for $80 million and put it on Paramount+. They don’t need another bomb.

Say what you want about MCU, it’s still a guarantee it’s going to make an impact. It still throws in multiple movies a years and have no problem for them making a huge profit.

Star Trek is a movie franchise in crisis. No one has a real idea or vision where to take it next and whatever the next movie is will be a risk. I think Shakman liked the idea of reviving the movies, but he hasn’t been the only one in the last 5 years lol. They just keep stalling and most eventually just move on.

I don’t know how good his F4 movie will be, but I do know it will at least open, ;)

It’s sad Paramount keeps trolling people for a movie they don’t even have the money to make. It’s not happening, stop embarrassing yourselves.

They will make more money if used that money for a Sonic the Hedgehog spin off movie for half the price.

JJ verse has been dead once STID angered fanboys everywhere and newbies stopped caring. These movies are a joke compared to real blockbusters.

Trek is just better on TV. Even Discovery.

ID hate has been blown waaaay out of proportion by a few angry trekkies lol . Audiences actually liked it (467m ww. and domestic was more than Thor 2 and WWZ that year and only 10m less than Fast&Furious 6 ), in fact a few of my friends who usually disliked Star Trek and mocked my interest in it went to see ID (as it was the big event movie of that summer along with Superman and Iron Man 3) and thought it was awesome (even more than ST09 and they thought that was good). They didnt bother with Beyond . if they had im sure id have gone back to being the mocked trekkie/nerd (and part blamed for making them waste their money on seeing it :)

Oh we agree it wasn’t as dumb as 09 but still pretty dumb.

Actually I’m not really disagreeing with you. I agree audiences did like the movie because they didn’t know or care about the real Khan. They were happy with the Oxford version.

I said ‘fanboys’ hated the movie right? 😉

I was specific for a reason. Even my own friend who knew nothing about Star trek liked the first two movies and why we’re not longer friends. I’m teasing…it has nothing to do with Star Trek.

Anyway I’m not one of these guys that look at everything through my own likes and dislikes. I understand people did like the first two movies. The problem was for a lot of those people it was like watching any other big CGI action summer movie and like fast food they stopped thinking about it ten minutes after they had it . It didn’t really hold them and by the time Beyond came around most of them no longer cared about the movies including my friend who didn’t watch it either.

I only went because it was free. I probably would’ve went eventually but no drive to go.

So many of the new fans shrugged and don’t forget the angry fanboys who now wanted JJ verse to implode and when came out no one cared. The hype died years ago. And Paramount knows it.

They can try and make another movie but I think most people have moved on. They’ll watch it but just wait until it goes to streaming in a month. Paramount has no one to blame but themselves. They killed off these movies in 7 years.

Oh we agree it wasn’t as dumb as 09 but still pretty dumb.

Actually I’m not really disagreeing with you. I agree audiences did like the movie because they didn’t know or care about the real Khan. They were happy with the Oxford version.

I said ‘fanboys’ hated the movie right? 😉

I was specific for a reason. Even my own friend who knew nothing about Star trek liked the first two movies and why we’re not longer friends. I’m teasing…it has nothing to do with Star Trek.

Anyway I’m not one of these guys that look at everything through my own likes and dislikes. I understand people did like the first two movies. The problem was for a lot of those people it was like watching any other big CGI action summer movie and like fast food they stopped thinking about it ten minutes after they had it . It didn’t really hold them and by the time Beyond came around most of them no longer cared about the movies including my friend who didn’t watch it either.

I only went because it was free. I probably would’ve went eventually but no drive to go.

So many of the new fans shrugged and don’t forget the angry fanboys who now wanted JJ verse to implode and when came out no one cared. The hype died years ago. And Paramount knows it.

They can try and make another mo

ID was amazing in Imax. But the story was daft and made no sense. Like JJ’S Star wars films in that regard. Visually spectacular, action packed and loud.The Khan stuff upset me a bit but i liked it. Though by the end Spock’s platform hoping was dizzying like a super mario game. And the magic Khan blood, we can’t forget that. Ridiculous.