While not entirely a surprise, the late Thursday announcement that Star Trek: Discovery would wrap up with the upcoming fifth season had a big impact on fans, and of course also on those who have worked on the series. We have pulled together what they have been saying about the end of Discovery.
Doug Jones talks “tearful” Zoom call
Saru actor Doug Jones is one of the many Trek celebs who were part of the Star Trek cruise this last week, and he talked about the series ending at a panel discussion held on the day of the announcement. Getting a bit emotional, Jones said being surrounded by fellow Star Trek actors and fans at this time was a big help as he described a cast and crew Zoom call from earlier in the day:
I’m going to get emotional… I’ve hugged a thousand of you at least… To be in this environment with all the hugs and love has been an absolute treat for me. We had a very tearful Zoom call this morning before the news hit. I was on a Zoom call with our producers and my castmates. So Sonequa [Martin-Green] gives you all of her love. And my co-star Tara Rosling, who plays T’Rina my love interest, she says to tell you to all to “party on.”… So, it’s been an absolute joy, but once in the Star Trek family, always in the Star Trek family.
You can hear audio of Jones talking about Discovery ending on Instagram (courtesy of our friends from the Syfy Sistas podcast).
Anson Mount says Discovery changed his life
Anson Mount began his Star Trek journey in the second season of Discovery. The Strange New Worlds star took to Twitter to give tribute to the series and the impact it had on him and others.
My Dearest Discovery Family,
You have charted the stars far beyond where our imaginations had ever taken us. In so doing, you have accomplished the mission: you have changed many lives, including mine. I love you, always.
– Captain Christopher Pike
USS Enterprise, NCC-1701 https://t.co/zLUj7eYGZk
— Anson Mount (@ansonmount) March 3, 2023
More cast and crew members offer thanks for five years of Disco
The official announcement included comments from star Sonequa Martin-Green and showrunners Alex Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise. Members of the cast and crew (past and present) took to social media to share those comments and offer their own.
Anthony Rapp (Paul Stamets) said his time on Discovery was “the privilege of a lifetime” and talked about how the show made his world “better in every way.”
It has been the privilege of a lifetime to join the #StarTrek universe. Thank you to all of you who’ve welcomed us into your hearts. To say that I will miss working with my incredible Disco family is a profound understatement. They’ve made my world better in every way. https://t.co/vEeBuXDVOw
— Anthony Rapp on Mastodon @email@example.com (@albinokid) March 2, 2023
Wilson Cruz (Hugh Culber) also offered up his “gratitude” for the opportunity.
All I feel, right now, is GRATITUDE, for this opportunity and for all of you who have stood with us. I love Hugh Culber. It’s been an honor, a privilege to be him and to have shared the stage with these incredible people. I am a better person, friend & actor. #StarTrekDiscovery https://t.co/ZSkvzgnSer
— Wilson Cruz (@wcruz73) March 2, 2023
This sentiment was echoed by Patrick Kwok-Chon (Gen Rhys):
It’s been an absolute honour and privilege to be part of the #StarTrek universe. What a gift it has been to work with artists you love and respect. I am a better actor, partner, father, and overall human being because of my time on #StarTrekDiscovery ❤️
LIVE LONG AND PROSPER 🖖🏽 https://t.co/OACETRJ3e1
— Patrick Kwok-Choon (@KWOK_ROCK) March 3, 2023
Emily Coutts (Keyla Detmer) shared some fun behind-the-scenes photos on Instagram, talking about how it has been a “hell of a ride.”
View this post on Instagram
Chelah Horsal (President Rillak) also expressed her gratefulness on Twitter…
I'm so grateful to Star Trek for bringing all these incredible artists and friends into my life. What a damn privilege. 🖖🏻 https://t.co/u4HEEv2GPR
— Chelah Horsdal (@chelahhorsdal) March 3, 2023
David Ajala (Cleveland “Book” Booker) had a simple message about one last time.
♥️ Let’s Just Book it and FLY….One. Last. Time. ♥️ pic.twitter.com/o10HME5raO
— David Ajala (@iamDavidAjala) March 2, 2023
Raven Dauda (Dr. Pollard) talked about looking forward to the “magic” of season 5.
What an honour it has been to be a part of this incredible show! Thank you for the joy and all that Star Trek Discovery has taught and brought me. Looking forward to the magic that this final season will bring! LLAP 🖖🏾💙 https://t.co/Q9L1zy0vD0
— Raven Dauda (@TheREALRavenD) March 3, 2023
Former Discovery actress Rekha Sharma (Ellen Landry) also shared some fun selfies from her time on the series on Instagram…
View this post on Instagram
Graphic designer Timothy Peel talked about the “extraordinary journey” he has had working on the show for seven years…
#StarTrek Well it's been the most extraordinary journey over the last 7 years. I will forever be grateful to all the cast and crew(s) of Discovery. We launched so many spinoffs and Short Treks over the years. The grand experiment is what Star Trek is all about.
— Timothy Peel (@timothypeel1) March 2, 2023
Former Discovery writer Bo Yeon Kim shared what an honor it was for her to work on the first three seasons…
It was an honor to serve on the USS Discovery. #StarTrekDiscovery
109: Into the Forest I Go
Short Treks: The Brightest Star
206: The Sound of Thunder
212: Through the Valley of Shadows
303: People of Earth
310-11: Terra Firma pic.twitter.com/OmOKLy1PnW
— Bo Yeon Kim (@extspace) March 3, 2023
Science adviser Dr. Erin Macdonald described how the show has become her family…
View this post on Instagram
Actor Ken Mitchell who appeared in seasons 1-3 of Discovery, often under Klingon make up, posted that it was a “magical time” for him.
a magical TIME. 💎 #StarTrekDiscovery pic.twitter.com/p3fZXaCOcP
— Kenneth Mitchell (@MrKenMitchell) March 3, 2023
Say goodbye in 2024
Paramount+ has set the debut of the the fifth and final season of Star Trek: Discovery to early 2024. According to reports, there will be some additional shooting this year to make the season finale into a proper series finale.
A trailer for season 5 was released at New York Comic Con last October, watch it below…
Discovery seasons 1 through 4 are currently streaming exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S. Internationally, the series is available on Paramount+ in Australia, Italy, Latin America, the U.K. and South Korea. It will also stream exclusively on Paramount+ in Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland and Austria later this year. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.
Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com
Discovery has been a fantastic show from the very beginning. It quickly became one of my favorite Trek shows and still is even with all the other current shows. To me Discovery is right up there with the best of Star Trek and it will be hard imo for any of the current shows to live up to the level of quality that it has set for current/future Star Trek shows.
The cast has been some of the best actors/characters to ever be in Star Trek and they will be missed. I hope that we get another Trek show set in the 32nd century and we will see these wonderful group of people on screen again.
I didn’t enjoy the series consistently until the fourth season, but the cast has absolutely been terrific from the first episode on.
Best of Trek? Try right up there with the best of human art, drama, and achievement. Let us fly. And they did.
Verily, it is Shakespeare, Beethoven, and Michelangelo all rolled into one.
I can’t get excited about Discovery, even when it comes to its cancellation, I feel “Meh.” But for those of you who loved it, Bon Voyage.
Same. I really enjoyed season two, mainly because of Pike and Spock. Otherwise, this has been a lackluster show that has been extremely uneven. I’ve watched it all more than once, and I’ve mostly enjoyed it for what it is, which is fluff compared to other Trek shows. But I can’t honestly say I’ll miss it. Half the characters (Detmer and all the others on the bridge) have never been remotely interesting or fleshed-out. Burnham might have been fun with a better actor in the role. Gray, which could have been a crowning achievement for Star Trek, failed as a concept because they were played by a godawful actor and were not given anything meaningful or interesting to do. And the past two seasons have had dull villains and meandering plots that largely went nowhere. It was enjoyable light entertainment while it lasted, but it never really pulled me in.
When you’re talking about Grey, do you mean to use he/him pronouns or are you getting him mixed up with Adira. Because as a trans man myself please don’t use the wrong pronouns for trans men, that hurts.
The rest of your opinions are fair, I just wanted to say that.
Ian Alexander, the actor who plays Gray, identified as trans masculine and used he/him when cast on Discovery. They now identify as non-binary and prefer they/them.
Okay good to know. But the character of Gray Tal did use he/him pronouns, correct? And I was thinking that it was the character being referred to and not the actor.
Good point. I know it was he/him in season 3 but thought it was they/them in 4. Then again, I’m old and my memory isn’t what it was when Discovery started :D
That’s very fair. I haven’t gotten to Disco season 4 yet so maybe that did change, I’ll just have to see.
I’m not sure which pronouns Gray used, I would assume it would be they/them. I know for a fact Adira used they/them, as the character explicitly mentioned it in an episode.
Memory Alpha uses he/him for Gray even for season 4. That’s what I go with.
I think the entire point of the article is to discuss the series. Not to make personal political statement or course correct someone else’s experience. To correct someone else in attempts to create a valid feeling of self is narcissistic at best, and destructive at its worse. Words are not able to create pain and acceptance comes from within not from demanding it from others.
My existence is not political, it is quite simply my existence. Asking people to use the correct pronouns for transgender people is not political, it is just polite. At no point did I try to correct Ian Alexander’s existence, our conversation was solely about the character of Gray Tal.
For your information, I do accept myself but the actions of others do still hurt. Especially in this time when there are states, including the one that I live in!, out trying to ban my existence because they don’t approve of it. If you think that doesn’t hurt me and people like me, then you’re incredibly wrong.
Not all mistakes with (often changing) pronouns are malicious attacks. This is new for many of us, let’s all have patience with each other, especially when we’re trying.
And if what I wrote was read, I never interpreted it that way. And I was patient, if I came across as not being that way, intent on the internet is hard and I don’t know if I can adopt tone tags here.
I reacted to that one reply like I did because of saying this conversation was political. It was not to me, and it never will be. It’s a core part of my existence, I was not demanding instant change and if it came across to people that I was, they need to exam why they feel that way.
I thought Adira and Gray were highlights of Season 3, and both actors were fantastic. Everything else? Not so much.
I will agree on your final thought: Discovery was enjoyable sci-fi, but it wasn’t really that engaging after the shiny new-car smell wore off. I think a lot people may have watched it the way I did: when it was new, and the only Star Trek, I watched it, and tried to see the promise in where it could go.
Season 2 showed it could improve, but it took a slide backward in Season 3, and by then there was Picard, Lower Decks, and later Strange New Worlds, so there were options if you just wanted some kind of Trek fix.
Ultimately I think that’s what killed it: as more, better or more appealing Trek arrived, audiences started tuning out of Discovery, or at the very least, those other shows were doing much better, and Discovery seemed lesser as a result.
Blu del Barrio did a fine job but I have struggled to understand the progression of their character from confident snarky prodigy to incoherent mess who randomly goes to pieces because they think Detmer is cool.
Ian Alexander… has given better performances elsewhere, but they were given very little to work with for Gray.
Adira was a fast favorite for me in Season 3. I was really looking forward learning more about them, their past lives and Trill. Granted, Dax was my favorite DS9 character but Adira felt more fleshed out than in a couple of episodes than half the bridge crew in 2 seasons.
I think the issue with Season 4 was that they were turned into a placeholder for Tilly or to be like early Discovery Tilly. It’s a good to know Ian Alexander has given better performances, because I haven’t really connected with Gray as a character.
Adira absolutely became Tilly 2.0. None of the ways I’ve seen people try to rationalize how they changed has really struck me as very plausible.
Ian Alexander did well by The Last of Us 2, with their performance being done in motion capture. I didn’t like The OA, but they weren’t bad in that. But the game is a reason I thought they might be interesting in Disco. I found myself wanting to fast forward through all of Gray’s scenes.
Adira was the highlight for me, and being “Tilly 2.0” is nothing but a compliment.
Well, I can’t stand Tilly. One of the biggest frustrations for me with Disco and Picard’s first seasons was that all of the humor came from neurotic, fast-talking, awkward women. If that’s not your vibe then you were sh*t out of luck.
And comparing Adira’s first few episodes with their last few is just night and day. If you didn’t know better you might think they aired in the opposite order.
That’s because Gray really wasn’t a character. With a couple of exceptions, Discovery didn’t really have characters.
That’s fine, but bad form to attack them as a “godawful actor.”
Were you addressing me? I don’t think they are exceptional, but I didn’t describe them that way.
Nice to see that someone else felt that S2 was the high point and not just me. Overall I’ve enjoyed Discovery and to be fair, they tried to do something really interesting last season with the alien species at the heart of the “mystery box”. However, I loved the introduction of Pike and the Enterprise in S2 and that for me was the period I enjoyed the show the most..
While Discovery never quite seemed to find its groove in seasons 1-4, it had so very many wonderfully creative moments and design choices.
The design in the 32nd century has been wonderful, and I’ve loved the introduction of new characters like Vance and Kovic. I hope we’ll see more of the Carl the Guardian of Forever somehow.
I really hope that SNW and other new shows can continue to challenge aesthetics and production design and values. I’m loving what Matalas has done with Picard season three but I would hate for the franchise to be stuck there.
Discovery bore the scars of getting Trek back in production again, for which it deserves nothing but respect.
Trek fans, taking into account the never-realized Phase II; the horrendous story of near-failure in making TMP; the chaos on the bridge launch and two stunningly bad to mediocre episodes of TNGs first seasons; and the perpetual development hell of the fourth Kelvin movie, owe Discovery a gracious thanks whether or not they enjoyed it.
I myself actually liked much of season one, and liked it better in the cut down for summer CBS broadcast version because it lost some of the seeming over trying to shock with graphic horror.
I’ve liked seasons 2-4 more than not. I feel they’ve really dug into some very classic Star Trek types of stories and can’t understand why longtime fans are surprised when they hit differently in serialization.
I will never enjoy the heavy-handed CW-ish stilted emotional ‘hallway conversation’ beats that were added by Michelle Paradise when she took over mid season two, but I know that there’s a genre sub-audience that finds those meaningful. It will be interesting to see if that kind of stuff plays better or worse as newer fans watch the show in the decades to come.
orion slave girl: whos ship is this..?
Kelvin Kirk: its a hoverbike baby
whos hoverbike is this?
Discos gone baby.. Discos gone.. (*speeds off*)
Drugs kill, buddy.
Was that supposed to make sense
It’s a Pulp Fiction reference. Zed’s dead, baby. Zed’s dead.
Yes, thank you Bill, just a fun reference to Discos demise by way of Tarantino (Trek) and Pine Kirks love of motorbikes/Discos s5 hoverbikes
There is a petition on Change.org asking for a final season to properly wrap up the series.
Petitions pretty much never have any effect on studios’ decisions, and this one will be no different. Sure, people can point out that petitions saved TOS and some non-Trek shows, because there are always exceptions. But there is zero chance anything at Change.org would get Paramount to un-cancel a show. In Hollywood, studio heads tend to dismiss fan petitions outright.
While I generally agree, and don’t as a rule see much use in such things, it’s worth noting that it was a letter-writing campaign that helped get Star Trek a third season in 1968.
We’re basically dealing with a new regime at Paramount that’s viewing Star Trek and other series on Paramount+ with a much different eye. Discovery was underperforming so that was a wrap. It won’t be the only Paramount+ series not returning.
Totally agree, just think — when it comes to Star Trek in particular — it’s kind of ironic to poke fun at a fan petition.
Was the Timeless wrap-up movie the result of a petition, or did NBC just decide to do a true finale?
It’s sweet of fans to try that.
But, The die is,Cast!
Looking forward to joining you on one more Special Voyage,Discovery.
I think it’s great that they will be doing additional shooting.
If they can add a series finale episode or two, that would be the ideal. From SMG’s ‘65 episode’ reference in her letter, it doesn’t sound like the current plan.
Perhaps the petition might be enough to unlock $20 million for a series finale rather than some additional scenes.
That $20 million for two episodes is part of the reason it won’t be returning. Those funds can be utilized elsewhere.
If the $ 20 million increases the long term value of those other five seasons, it would be a good return on investment.
Paramount is throwing that amount for a single episode on Sheridan projects. The question is always what’s the marginal return.
I think they view the Sheridan projects as less of a risk with broader appeal. He’s become the Ryan Murphy of Paramount (which means Netlfix will try to snatch him away in a couple of years).
Even if that $20m can be given to Picard and SNW, it will go towards Trek that is now performing better. I’ll maintain: DSC was success when it was the only show they had, the only Trek. It suffered by comparison to later shows, which did better.
I mean, look at movies: Iron Man in 2008 was considered a smash hit blockbuster with $585 million, but when a Marvel movie does that now, it’s considered a disappointment. Expectations change.
That’s what the reshoots are for. Paramount agreed to toss them a few extra bucks to properly wrap up the series.
Signed one petition on change.org a few years ago, then spent weeks blocking the spam that followed.
Lesson learned. I’ll pass.
Create a disposable email for just such a case.
Honestly, I didn’t sign it. I like DISCO but I don’t love itthe way I love SNW or PROD. I also want a PIC spin-off featuring Captain Seven and the Titan. Those are my priorities now. It’s not like ENT in 2005 which was the end of an era. It’s just one show and there are better ones streaming right now.
Wouldn’t they make some really good money on hosting paid set tours in Toronto of these shows in the off-season?
The show did have potential but it was just wasted. And unlike most Trek shows that eventually got better this one only got worse despite feeling like a reboot every season.
I won’t miss a single minute of it but maybe the last season will finally be worth watching. It is sad the show didn’t get a final season to wrap it up properly.
Enterprise never lived up to its potential. Voyager was 7 seasons of wasted potential.
Agreed about Enterprise but it’s still a much better show than Discovery but that’s not a huge barometer. 😜
VOY was my first Star Trek show and I didn’t start watching it until it’s fourth season, so I look at it differently because it was all new to me. But really only that show and TNG were the only Trek shows I watched for the first five years. TNG is still my favorite out of all of them bar none.
DS9 was technically my first Trek show but I was also two years old. The first show that I remember watching was VOY and child me thought it was the best show ever. Now 30 years later, it’s like yeah it had a lot of problems but it’s still one of my very favorite Trek shows. DS9 is my absolute favorite though.
VOY did have some wasted potential but to say it was entirely is unfair.
I been watching Trek since the late 70s and watched them all obviously and Voyager was always one of my favorites. In fact it was the only show, at the time, I fell in love with in its first season outside of TOS. It took me awhile to really appreciate TNG, DS9 and certainly ENT but VOY I fell in love with out of the gate. Yeah it had it’s problems but I loved it through and through, especially Janeway who I was a huge fan of from day one.
Now it was never my favorite show either and at one point was my least favorite actually with all the classic Trek shows once I finally gave Enterprise a real chance and really loved it. But once I started rewatching a lot of Voyger again when the Picard show was announced, it climbed back to my third favorite show and been there for the last five years.
In fact I rewatched the entire show for the first time in over ten years back in 2021 when I did a grand rewatch of the franchise and loved it even more after that. It also got me to listen to the Delta Flyers podcast, currently on season five now and it’s a ton of fun to listen to all the behind the scenes stuff.
I was born in 1990. I know people tend to lump fans born in that decade in with 80s kids and say TNG was our Trek but for me, TNG never was. It was always VOY and DS9 with it. Closeted child me loved Janeway and wanted to be her. But internally the gender envy I had seeing Harry Kim, I wanted to be Harry more. I didn’t understand what it was then but now looking back.
I looked up the Delta Flyers podcast after you mentioned it. Listened to the Tsunkatse episode because it was the Jeffrey Combs one (I will never change there) and it was great. They didn’t talk about him as an actor much but I was more interested in hearing their thoughts on Penk. And they did not disappoint. Their episode recap and thoughts was fantastic.
Oh yeah I definitely agree with that. I see people on Reddit and other social media who was born in the late 80s/ealy 90s who cite VOY as usually their first and favorite show. DS9 not as much as VOY but certainly behind it.
This board, for whatever reason, attract mostly oldies lol, ie people born in the 70s and up. And I obviously include myself in that and so it’s mostly people who seen TNG and even a few who watched TOS when those shows first ran.
But I think the majority of people who is watching Trek today is probably around your age, if a little older, so they have a different view of it like TG1701. And that is interesting, it’s usually whatever someone’s first show they watch is their favorite. NOT all the time, I grew up with TOS but I like TNG and DS9 more. It didn’t happen overnight, but in time it did. In fact DS9 is my favorite show today and it started as my least favorite for probably its first three seasons. So things can change as we get older or just view shows differently as they age. That’s what makes watching Star Trek fun to watch as well. In 20 years Discovery may be your favorite show over VOY or a show that hasn’t been created yet.
And yeah the Delta Flyers is great. I thought they were just going to review the episodes like most of these types of podcasts, but they spend way more time discussing how each one was made, discuss the writers and directors and even discuss the guest actors on the show. They run down their resumes and stuff they done before. There is so many insights and trivia with each episode.
And it really helps because Robert Duncan McNeil is a director since he started that career on VOY and he really goes into a lot of detail about how things were shot, especially back then compared to today. I learn completely new things on every one.
I would encourage any Voyager fan to listen to it, or at the very least whatever their favorite episodes were although the best ones to listen to are the ones they hated lol. Those are always fun.
Tsunkatse was definitely one they hated 😂 so it was a fun episode to listen to, yeah. I also listened to the podcast with Connor Trinneer and Dominic Keating, or rather their episode with Jeff Combs. Was also a great listening experience, now I need to find one similar about DS9.
I’m doing my part, I got a friend in their late teens/early 20s to watch LD and they’re now watching PRO. So it’s starting to skew younger now even if just slightly. I’m gonna let them decide if they want to watch more because I don’t want to be pushy or a donkey though.
Oh man, I can’t wait to get to that episode now lol. Still got a ways to go.
I plan to listen to Trinner/Keating podcast next when I’m done with Delta Flyers, but I’ve seen a few on YT, just watched the more recent one with Micheal Dorn. I think that came out right before this season of Picard started. Really good interview.
And we all have to do our parts to get people into Star Trek! I got a few my friends watching it back in the day and recently got of my coworkers to watch. He was already an old fan but refused to watch any of the new stuff, mostly because he refuses to ‘pay’ for Star Trek. One of those types lol. I talked him into giving this season of Picard another chance and persuaded him by saying the TNG cast was back and even got him a free month code for Paramount+ to try it out, so no excuses after that.
He started watching it after the second episode and loving it so far. He also is watching SNW and LDS as well. He likes SNW but says LDS is not his thing lol. But his grandson likes it and watched the first season so far and he’s never watched Star Trek either.
So whatever it takes! ;)
The episode with Jeffrey Combs was fantastic, he talked a lot about his life before Trek and a little bit about his time on DS9 which was my favorite part. Then they talked about ENT and that was great too. Some of the things he said explains a lot about the ways and the things that I think about his characters, especially Weyoun.
I think LD does actually draw in new and younger fans in ways I don’t have the brain power to explain right now. Yes it’s a cartoon comedy but at this day and age… It’s a nice escape from reality where you can laugh and laugh and things are okay for a while. Maybe they don’t understand all of the references but that’s okay. Maybe they will later.
My very first experience with Star Wars was a parody musical based off it. I watched that, then watched the movies and the shows and came back to watch it again. It was just as funny to me both times. And if that’s how people experience Trek through LD then that’s great for them.
Yeah it still sucks to know if ENT went another season we would’ve had Shran on the ship full time. :(
I will probably just watch that one soon then since you say it’s really good. Combs is great, I was hoping he shows in person on one of the live action shows. It’s great he’s on LDS now, but still not quite the same.
As far as LDS, yeah I agree, I think it’s drawing in younger fans as well, which would make sense. I don’t think you have to be an uber-Trek fan to like it at all. Sure you won’t catch all the jokes or references but you can still just like the stories and the characters on their own. My coworker’s grandson is 17 years old, he likes the characters and actually Ransom is his favorite so far. I’m sure there is plenty of stuff that confuses him, but that would be any show for a new fan. If someone mentions Klingons or the Borg in a throw away line, they’re going to be confused regardless if you never seen them before.
So I think we get carried away when people say LDS is really just for long time fans. Sure they will appreciate it more being in the know, but again you can say that about SNW, PRO and certainly PIC this season. The irony is Discovery was probably the easiest for new people to get into once it got to the third season, but yeah that obviously didn’t exactly help it either lol.
Anyway, although I’m kind of skeptical at the moment how far any of these shows will go now, I’m still pushing for LDS to get seven seasons….and a movie! ;D
He kinda implies, at least to me, that the characters he could get into the mindset of easier, were Weyoun and Shran and I could honestly tell from the way he talks about them and, at least with Weyoun, the way that he played them. But yeah watch it if you want to, maybe we can discuss it more after you do.
Ransom isn’t a bad favorite 😂. agimus is mine followed by Brad, but surely that’s not surprising. It was in fact LD and agimus that brought me into new Trek and why I ended up liking it so much. So if it continues that’s great. If it doesn’t, it will be a show that I end up watching again and again like DS9 before it. I already rewatch where pleasant fountains lie when my chronic depression is kicking me around. It’s a great mood lifter.
In many ways Trek is like Dr Who or Bond (and a lesser extent Star Wars), its all about who you grew up with. Not all the time, but often it just is.. Peter Davison was ‘my’ Dr Who (had I been born a couple of years earlier it would’ve been Tom Baker), Roger Moore was ‘my’ Bond (despite my first cinema Bond being Never Say Never Again, but on TV the Moore movies were far more appealing to me than Connerys old fashioned looking 60s films, and I liked A View to a Kill much more than NSNA) and TOS (movies) was ‘my’ Trek (I watched TOS series on tv was old fashioned and almost cartoony looking but the movies II, III, IV were like my Star Wars trilogy, saw all of them at cinema. even seeing TMP on tv was fascinating to me, and I even loved V despite its obvious problems and VI was just incredible at the time, like TOS’ Endgame, that level of awesome) .. TNG aired in UK when I was an early teen and got into that fairly quick despite the opening weak eps, but even though was big into it TOS was still always more important to me (especially after catching up on all the TOS episodes collecting them all on vhs) and at that time I was counting down to Trek VI and there was the 25th anniversary and all the stuff to do with that around (going to the local comic store, buying the DC Trek comics, TOFC magazine, starlog anniversary magazine, model kits, Compendiums, tech manuals etc), but I pretty much tuned out of all Trek after BBC lost the rights to show TNG S4 or 5 onwards (so then just had to rent the vhs of important eps like Unification, Relics, AGT etc if there was nothing better to rent movie wise, as it felt abit weird going to the VHS store and renting TV episodes..when could be renting the latest big budget action movie) also TOS had ended, the later TNG seasons were very technobabbly and wasn’t interested in DS9/Voy. but I got back on board with Generations (how could I not..it was basically Star Trek VII to me) and then FC was great and made Trek ‘cool’ for a while. DS9/Voy I never got into , just couldn’t do it. I still can’t. Idk quite why.. saw the pilots and the odd ep but..the technobabble, the look of those shows, the characters. im sorry :( Ent was the same until started hearing s4 was good and by then you could buy the dvd sets so got s4 and yeah it was great, s3 as well.
Anyway I can fully appreciate that many ppl grew up loving Voyager or DS9 (or even Kelvin as its that long ago now), and now Disco. and thats ‘their’ Star Trek and probably not all much interested in/detachment about the original Trek (like I was with previous Dr Who’s and Bond only becoming more interested years later to be checking the previous stuff out ), they might watch some of the old eps and movies on streaming or go to one of Shatners TWOK screenings and think ‘well yeah its OK I guess I can see why its revered, but I like Voyager. thats my Star Trek, why didnt Voyager get movies like TOS?, or wheres the Disco movies? or wheres the next Kelvin movie I grew up on Kelvin damnit!’ (a question we’re all asking, including Pine lol)
I had the opposite experience. I could never get into TNG. I came to care about most of the characters but the show itself I really couldn’t get into. My parents loved TOS, my mother when TOS came out was the same age that I had been when VOY came out. And she could never understand why I didn’t prefer TOS. So she would try to force me and guilt trip and manipulate me into preferring it (even to the point of attempting to outright ban me from watching VOY) which ultimately ending up having the opposite effect. I did end up loving all of the characters, Pavel Chekov is probably my all time favorite Trek character ever. And my gay gay self would cuddle Scotty to pieces. (Scotty was probably one of my very first Trek crushes. And my gay awakening do to speak.) So for those reasons TOS is over TNG on my favorites list.
Over time though DS9 became my favorite because at first I could identify with Julian Bashir. I too am an overenthusiastic nerd who is neurodivergent and has a bad relationship with my parents because they would never let me who I am and instead forced me into being who they wanted me to be. (But unlike Julian they never realized that just hurt me and their relationship with me and still do that.)
Then eventually with that and other things that have happened to me in my life, I eventually realized that I also identified with the Dominion, having been hurt a lot by both people that I cared about and people that I didn’t even know, had put walls around myself and was suspicious and paranoid and afraid of everyone. So I worked on that until I reached the point that now, turning 33 in August, I identify with Odo the most. So DS9 with all of that and themes about trauma that I found comfort in, had become my favorite.
And there are people younger than me who had circled back around to Kirk and Spock and the rest with the Kelvin movies. That is the Trek that they find comfort in and that’s great. And it’s great for people who found that Disco is their Trek. I’m sad for them that it’s ending and I hope they can still rewatch it and find comfort in it as much as I do with DS9.
I disagree. Voyager — while I enjoyed it and still do — never once lived up to the potential of its premise as a ship lost in the Delta Quadrant and crewed by opposing factions that hated each other
What did you want from the crew then? Them fighting all the time? Because that would get old and tiring fast. No them working together the way that they did to get home again was so much better.
Same. My perspective was different from the start because I started watching it in season 4 when everyone was unified and a crew so that’s just how I saw them. I didn’t watch the beginning seasons until several years later. It was very strange to even see so much division at the beginning.
And I just can’t buy the two groups would be fighting with each other for seven seasons straight when everyone wants to get home. The Maquis was never the Federation enemies, it was the Cardassians. That’s what always gets missed.
Their original conflict happened 70,000 light years away, so now they had to rely on each other to get home. Isn’t that Star Trek? Putting differences aside and working together? The was always the message the show gave me and another reason I love it.
But I loved Seska. She was great but she was also a Cardassian so she was everyone’s enemy on that ship lol. I wish they found a way to keep her on the show at least one more season.
Yep, also agreed! I agree with people who say that Starfleet and the Maquis probably got along too quickly but I always assumed the point was they would learn to work together as a crew. Again, as you said, that’s what Star Trek is.
And yeah, the other problem is, the Starfleet officers are the ones trained to run the ship and get them home. Who in their right mind is going to push back on that lol. Everyone wants to get home! Why in the world would you impede that??? Sure I can see cultural differences and questioning some of Janeway’s decisions on how they would do it, but ultimately everyone would just pitch in and do what they needed to do. There could be a few outliers here and there but having Maquis take over the ship every season would feel ridiculous and unrealistic given the circumstances.
Might be better for you. I enjoy Enterprise more too. But I don’t know if I’d actually call it a better show. From writing to acting to VFX, Enterprise wasn’t exactly prestige TV.
Prestige TV and Star Trek don’t mix. They never have and they never will. Trek is too, well, Trek. This is the TV franchise where you have iconic episodes such as the chief engineer starts a bar fight while a bunch of sentient hairballs eat up a bunch of poisoned grain. And also the captain and three others get turned into kids for an episode. And the entire series of Lower Decks.
None of Trek is that and people still love it. ENT isn’t great but it did the best that it could for the time and the budget that it had and for that people should be able to love and appreciate that.
Well it’s certainly better for me! I have seen seasons 3 and 4 a half dozen times now. I originally hated Archer and T’Pol and now they are some of my favorite characters.
You know how many times I rewatch any seasons of Discovery so far? Zero. I just have no interest to watch any of it again, especially when you know the ending sucks. And season 4 just feels like a snooze fest for me I’ve seen a few episodes again but that’s maybe 5-10 episodes.
Me and my girlfriend watched Enterprise a few months ago, it’s her second favorite show after TNG. The show is still not amazing for me but I generally do like it today and it’s tied with TOS for me (was never a huge fan of that show either).
But Discovery is dead last for me. It started that way in season 1 and it’s still at the bottom in season 4.
I have rewatched the first two seasons of Discovery several times at this point. Season one is still my least favorite season out of all of Star Trek but season two is actually one of my favorites WHEN compared to other second seasons at least. That season is a lot more fun and some really solid episodes overall. But yeah, once again the ending kind of failed it, but I can easily watch it though.
But you’re right, the biggest issue with serialized shows is if you don’t like the ending, its so hard to be motivated to rewatch it again, even if there are episodes you like. This really happened to me with season one of Picard. I can say I generally liked most of the episodes, especially in the first half.. But the last two episodes put such a bad taste in my mouth, I don’t have any desire to watch it again. I have rewatched that season again when I did my grand rewatch and sadly it’s not any better for me. I don’t know if I will ever watch the first two seasons of Picard again. I don’t think I’ll ever watch season four of Discovery ever again either because it was just so boring. And all these seasons had really interesting story and premises, but the executions was mostly awful.
I guess I should never say never, but let’s say for a long long time. ;)
Season one of Discovery is utterly dire. 🤮
I think there are three episodes I can watch again but have no desire to
Yeah season 2 was much better for sure but that was mostly because of Pike and Spock. Now they are on a show that doesn’t suck and we can watch them there.
I haven’t rewatch SNW yet either but I plan to when season 2 starts. And looking forward to it. 👍
I can’t wait for the next Flagship Trek Show.
You’re going to have to. It might be a while.
Isn’t SNW the new flagship show just by default since Picard is done too? It was already the more popular one lol.
I don’t know if there will ever be a true “flagship” show in the traditional sense. I also think the days of Trek shows getting 7 seasons is long gone. My suspicion is the franchise for the foreseeable future will be a cycle of shows that run 3 to 5 seasons each, perhaps even with a planned single-season series mixed in.
Oh yeah I agree, which was another reason I wasn’t surprised Discovery was cancelled. I kept saying five seasons for a streaming show is already considered old, people can’t use the same model of the old shows because that was just a different time and medium. Now sure, if Discovery was pulling in better numbers, then it could’ve made it, but probably had to be on a huge level to justify it.
And yeah, five seasons may just be the max with all these shows going forward. We’ll see what happens with LDS since that’s oddly now the second longest running show. Maybe it will get a fifth season and stop there as well although I really hope not, but prepared for it.
And they been saying we may get limited run shows, ie, last a season. People first thought that may be the case with Picard when it was first introduced. I see a lot of people suggesting that could happen with the Section 31 show now, and more of a mini-series they do for 6 episodes or something and call it a day if Yeoh is really that busy or they don’t think a full on show is that appealing to fans anymore.
5 seasons is the standard now. I never expected 7 seasons or more. Back in the day they needed 7 seasons to have enough episodes to sell to syndication. That’s why TNG had so many bad episode. Less is more.
I wonder if Discovery will head to feature film like TOS and TNG.
I’ve heard way worse ideas. Bring back Georgiou for it and they might really have something marketable. I’m not a fan of that character, but maybe my mind could yet be changed.
Maybe a TV movie, I can’t imagine it being on the big screen. I think SNW or Picard would have a better chance and I can’t imagine those really happening either. The problem is the business has just changed too much and since any Trek film would struggle to reach $500 million is probably not very attractive to investors, hence why the Kelvin movies keeps getting stalled.
The suits at Paramount seem to forget that Star Trek feature films were successful but with modest budgets. “Nemesis” came in at roughly $60 million which is about $100 million today (and, yes, Nemesis was the only feature to lose money of the 10 feature films up to that time).
A post Picard film produced for $100 million with cast members from TNG, DS9, Voyager could make money and I think this also feeds in to what Chris Pine has been saying for several years. The audience is there. Place the focus on appealing to them.
Denny C, it seems you missed the recent interview here with Matt Shakman where he said a $100 million movie is unrealistic post COVID and he can’t figure why fans keep citing that.
His view is $200 million is the floor, but that the feature market has moved to tentpoles.
If that’s true, then we probably won’t see another Star Trek movie for five years minimum…at least on the big screen. No one is going to spend that on another Star Trek movie.; at least no one with brains although with Paramount that’s questionable lol.
I agree obviously but I think it seems like they don’t want to just make a smaller profit, they seen to want tentpole movies and today that’s honestly $600+ million minimum. A TNG movie can certainly make money but I’m guessing about half that at the most. The Kelvin movies a little more, but still at around $400 million as the three movies averaged and with a bigger budget to boot. Both can possibly make more but they can also possibly make less too.
I think that’s the biggest problem, Paramount wants to make a lot of money to green light these movies and not make just enough money like the old TOS/TNG movie days. But would love to be proven wrong.
I know most fans would be excited if season 3 of Picard ended and would jump into a movie next assuming this season ends on a huge high note as the people who seen it says it does.
There isn’t enough of an audience or awareness of Discovery for a feature film. Paramount+ may opt to give fans a film on the service but even that seems like a 50/50 proposition at best.
I love DISCO and have from the start. This new era of Trek is possibly the finest we’ve been fortunate to live through. I smell a plan in the air around this. This ‘ending’ seems like a chain reaction resulting from another decision.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if DISCO moves to the big screen, a bit like TOS did, after a break. Perhaps involving a little trip to another film timeline? Just my penny’s worth…
TOS and TNG are the only television series to successfully transition from television to feature films with their original casts and able compete with other feature films. That had a lot to do with having millions and fans and a series with strong, consistent ratings over a number of years,
Discovery isn’t that kind of show and would likely have limited appeal for a series that is widely unknown to a general audience.
We also have to remember when TOS and TNG transferred into movies, they were really the only Star Trek around and so it was much easier to build up that following over the years. DS9 showed up later but that was literally to replace TNG since it was already going to theaters and it didn’t show up until that show’s sixth season. So TNG was really the defining show in fans heart for a long time after that because it was the only show on for so long on air. None of the other shows after it really got the same advantage, they were all competing with each other from then on basically.
Today it’s now even more a gluttony of shows and as far as I can tell none of the new shows has really stood out from each other. I can certainly believe there are fans who likes Discovery as their favorite show, but I don’t believe there is a huge margin of them to rise above the others either or basically just stand out more. And since it was the first show to get cancelled, I think it proves less likely lol.
That’s really the problem for most of these new shows, there would have to be a large enough fanbase who is invested specifically in that one show to get them in the theaters like there was with TNG at the time. I don’t think any of them are anywhere at that level; especially for a streaming show I doubt people knows anything about if they are not Star Trek fans or already has P+.
And look we have to face the other reality, TOS and TNG were deemed great shows that were seen as iconic and still are considered that today. I’m sorry, I know DIS has it’s fans but I don’t see a show that is so divided and even hated among so many others in the fanbase as a contender for a big screen movie. Unless season 5 has some big turnaround in its perception and I’m not holding my breath. ;)
I really hope they let Terry Matalas take over the guidance of shows going forward and that Kurtzman will just… cash his checks.
Completely agree with you.
I’m not against these pseudo-Trek shows like Disco/S31/SF Academy/Picard s1-2 because they add to the world building BUT they should only come as filler AFTER we have real Trek shows like SNW and whatever Next Next Gen/Legacy show Matalas is cooking up.
So everyone else gets to be insulting huh? It’s all real Star Trek, and the people who watch them are real Star Trek fans, hate to break it to ya.
As an on-and-off foreign policy person, I love the spy genre, particularly in its more photorealistic versions (Clancy, Le Carre).
I don’t see a lot to suggest that a Section 31 show is going to be worthy of those examples. (I do get the appeal of blending science fiction with the spy genre, and I’m surprised that it hasn’t been attempted more often; but the only real successes I can think of are Six Million Dollar Man/Bionic Woman, both dated, and the Stargate arcs that dealt with US-Russian relations.)
But setting aside the cartoony nature of Georgiou, I think part of the problem is that the geopolitics/exopolitics angle on Star Trek is just too far removed from the real world, and that near-future sci-fi may work better for that kind of mashup.
Personally, I think there is a truly thrilling Trek espionage show waiting to be made. Whether they can execute it successfully is the issue.
I suspect the problem with the Trek espionage show concept is that for whatever reason it’s never had its experienced champion showrunner come forward.
Whether it’s still possible with Yeoh cleaning up the awards for EEAAO, or it would feature other principals, it’s never going to fly without someone with a strong and clear vision who is also a showrunner the streamer can count on.
Yeoh wanted it – check
Espionage is its own popular subgenre – check
But Kim and Lippoldt, charged with creating the S31 show were cust Co-EPs on Discovery at that point.
I suspect that, after the experience with Chabon as an award winning novelist but relatively inexperienced screenwriter, the suits up the chain did not accept the idea of a pair of novice showrunners for S31.
In fact, they never let Michelle Paradise ever become the sole showrunner of Discovery as far as it’s been publicized.
So instead of launching S31, they gave Goldsman and Myers – an Academy Award winning screenwriter and the successful showrunner of The Magicians – the green light on SNW. Yes, fans were campaigning for it, but I don’t doubt that Goldsman’s campaign to get a Pike show from the moment he arrived in the Discovery writers room is why it happened.
Matalas is a great creator and showrunner, but I am sure he doesn’t for a minute want to see ‘Terry Trek’ campaigns split the franchise.
It’s all Trek.
This ‘real’ and ‘pseudo’ talk is just gatekeeping my way of insults Spectre7.
You have a view and that’s fine. It’s absolutely however no more valid or able to define what is or isn’t Trek than mine.
I’ve said recently that I don’t think any of us old fans should be flexing how long we’ve watched Trek, but as I’m one of the ones who’s watched EVERYTHING in first run.
I’m antique enough to recall the fuss from gatekeeping ‘fans’ when the Animated Series first aired. I loved it, and I honour it for being the thing that first got my kids into Trek through the DVD set.
I’d probably exclude PIC from this (although it has an air of being a coda to TNG, not a stand-alone series), but otherwise “pseudo-Trek shows” summarizes the approach perfectly. Well done.
Kurtzman still has plenty of value as an executive, a leader, etc. It was Kurtzman who greenlit these shows, Kurtzman who picked Matalas, and Kurtzman who got Stewart to come back to the franchise.
I agree that Matalas seems like a great person to be heavily involved in the franchise though.
Bryan Fuller had the creative vision, Kurtzman was the exec who could keep the machinery going. Kurtzman is competent, he gets the job done but he lacks any real creative vision of his own. His connection to Star Trek through the films and track record for CBS is what got him the Discovery gig since Fuller’s track record demonstrated a need for having other adults in the room. Once Fuller was gone they were pretty much just rushing to the finish line and his original vision for the series was gone.
As good execs do, he figured out was what was working, what wasn’t and hired showrunners and creatives who know and have a passion for the material. The success of SNW, Lower Decks, Prodigy and Picard season 3 are a reflection of this.
Donald Trump also managed to greenlight Operation Warp Speed and appointed Moncef Slaoui as its head. That doesn’t mean I want Trump anywhere near the Oval Office ever again.
As the saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice each day.
And although he gets his share of flak, Matalas credits Kurtzman with giving him basically Carte Blanche for Picard Season 3.
There’s a lot of push for ‘Terry Trek’ right now, so we’ll have to see. I think it’s certainly possible but probably noting will happen until the end of Picard happens and see how well it does both in numbers and of course fan satisfaction.
But nearly everyone who has seen the entire season is pushing for it already and many have been critics of the new shows, especially Discovery, so that says a lot.
It says a lot, but it doesn’t mean that restricting the franchise to what those guys want will serve Trek well.
Bringing them back is an important contribution but it’s not enough. I really like Matalas and his work, but I absolutely think it would be an error now to give him the strategic keys to the franchise.
Gaining a lot of older white boomer and Gen-X guys like the crew YouTube and many on this board, but losing the millennials, GenZs, women, people of colour, LGBTQ+, and global fans because the new shows they want are gone is not the way to a successful future for Paramount+ or the Star Trek franchise.
I want it all. Cool new production design, different types of shows, new eras. I just want it to be well constructed and coherent.
Discovery and Picard S1-2, have been plagued by too many cooks in the kitchen. Given the fate of Star Trek 4, it’s astonishing anything got made that attracted anyone.
Kurtzman’s seen and learned that having a creative showrunner with a vision they want to champion.
Alpha Predator is right. The guy has spent seven years figuring out how to make the franchise work and grow. Let’s not get on a bandwagon because some guys finally got the show they personally wanted.
If I could like comments multiple times, I would give this one at least ten. Yeah, exactly. My interest in Trek was dead outside of rewatching DS9 every so often until some of the new shows brought it back. And this time around I’m much happier with Trek and feel like maybe finally Trek loves me back.
A. I was talking about one show lol.
B. Give the guy some credit! Even if he was in charge, I don’t think it would just be ONE type of Star Trek. I think you’re a little too focused on this idea that Matalas or anyone just wants to make Star Trek for the same group of old fans. I imagine he would make various shows for various people as we;re getting. Picard season 3 looks like TNG because it’s a show that was based around TNG. If he made a new show, then I’m guessing that show wouldn’t be TNG but something creatively new and different that would (hopefully) take place in another time period and with brand new characters and situations.
C. I’m saying this to you because that’s how I originally saw Kurtzman. I thought because he worked on the Kelvin movies and then we got a TOs prequel with Discovery, I thought he was just going to appeal to the same old TOS fanboys who wanted the 60s back and that’s all we would get for the next five years.
Fortunately I was wrong! It was the opposite and why I support him today. He wanted Star Trek to grow and to get people beyond just TOS fans or older fans. So I don’t see the remote difference with Matalas. Yes he wants a Picard spin off as most of us do. I don’t think the guy would just make a half dozen Picard spin offs either if he ran it.
D. Lastly, we also have to remember these guys have bosses, ie, Paramount executives. We pretend like they have total control over everything and the only thing the higher ups do is to send them the money. I’m more than sure Paramount is pushing to make Star Trek as diverse and for multiple demographics out there because they need those groups to subscribe to P+ as everyone else. Dude do you seriously think they are going to allow someone to make five new Star Trek shows today and completely ignore, women, Gen Z or LGBTQ groups?
So I think, per usual, people are too focused on one personality or show. LDS and PRO probably only exist because there was some executive saying they need to get younger or modern people into Star Trek somehow and here we are.
But as I said, I was just talking about the spin off show, nothing beyond that. But I know others are thinking bigger. Let’s see if they hire the guy again first before they hand him the keys to the empire after Kurtzman goes. ;)
To channel Chief Justice Roberts, I suggest that divvying us up by race is equally not the path to a successful future for Paramount+ (or most other businesses), particularly when it comes to justifying truly awful artistic output.
I think the decision has already been made and we’ll hear something before the season ends.
And I really hope you’re right (and your batting average is usually better than mine). I want that Picard spin off badly now. ;)
I think it’s going to happen. Picard Season 3 is effectively reintroducing this era while the first two seasons seemed to be going out of their way to work around it.
This is why we get along so well! ;D
It would be bonkers if they decided not to do any follow up to this season considering the massive fanfare and headlines its currently getting. This season is making people who has hated every last bit of Star Trek since 2009 fans again. So I think you’re right as well.
Let Matalas take over, someone who just have better ideas and clearly way more passionate about the franchise and won’t make dreary melodrama stuff like DIS that Kurtzman has let it become and turned off a lot of Trekkies.
Hilarious idea of self-sabotage. Matalas is the least creative person in the history of Star Trek.
I thought I heard the series was always intended to go five seasons, but can anyone confirm if that was true?
I feel that DISCO had at least one more season left in it beyond the upcoming Season Five, so I’m disappointed to see it go.
My main issue with the series was not the fact it was highly serialized, but the often poor execution of the serialized story. Some episodes felt like treading water with only one or two points that didn’t need to be stretched out as long. Hindsight is 20/20 and the series would have done better, I think, with several “mini-arcs” under a larger story thread, much like Andor did, and masterfully.
No, it was never made clear how long it would go for. If that was the case, they would’ve said it before it was shot it would be the final one. They probably assumed (the producers) it could make it to at least seven like the other old shows.
Picard was the only show that said it was designed with limited seasons in mind which was three.
The original Netflix contract was five seasons, and the actors’ contracts were five seasons. But, of course, that doesn’t mean It couldn’t be cancelled earlier or extended beyond five years. If I recall correctly, actors’ contracts for Berman Trek were six seasons…
There was no end date which is why the cast was surprised by the announcement. No one went into season 5 thinking that they were entering the final season of Discovery.
While I think Discovery will be considered a mixed bag for many fans for awhile, I can’t say the cast and crew didn’t give it their all. They really really tried with this show lol. I’ve always given them credit for course correcting when they saw something wasn’t gelling with the fans like the new Klingons or the show feeling too advanced for its time period and adjusted. Unfortunately while I thought all the changes were for the better overall, I still don’t think the show itself ever gotten any better for me.
Discovery is still my second to last favorite show, only behind Picard. That says a lot after four seasons. And of course if Picard season 3 ends up being the winner everyone says that it is, then Discovery will be my least favorite show completely. And I have rooted for this show many times. Seasons 2 and 3 were the most excited about a show since DS9 final seasons, so I was always rooting for it; it just never fully came together unfortunately. And yes I blame a lot of that on the show runner but I digress.
But I don’t think it will be the last we will see these characters obviously. Once Sybok was brought back, anything is now possible lol. And yes there is still talk about the Academy show. And it’s rumored to take place in the 32nd century. So if that happens, we’ll obviously see some of those characters back and a continuation of that timeline at least.
But I think Discovery as a show wasn’t pulling in the viewers to justify the massive budget it was probably getting, so reality finally caught up to it like every show eventually gets.
Where are you getting ‘massive budget’ from Tiger2?
It was originally around $ 8 million per episode, but with COVID, who knows?
Picard was always booked to have a higher price per episode even with the California grant.
But both of those are dwarfed by the cost per episode of the new Taylor Sheridan series.
The important thing is however return on investment. Is Discovery drawing its audience and holding them is the key question? Or Picard through season one and two.
My guess is that Paramount+ has stats showing viewership drop off for both shows through their last two seasons. And subscription drops too.
I suspect Marina Sirtis is right on this being ‘no secret’ within the franchise, especially as Patrick Stewart had to do a volte face on his repeated vetos for any reunion or return of Picard to the bridge of a Starfleet ship.
I sincerely thing that a bunch of angry middle aged guys in the US campaigning to give the shows score of 1 on IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes doesn’t affect much.
But Paramount seeing demand metrics, views and subscriptions dropping mid season would be fatal.
To me $8-10 million is pretty massive which is what I heard it was. I don’t think LDS is getting that lol. Could be wrong though. Isn’t the argument is it was cancelled because they needed to cut the costliest shows? That’s what I been saying all along, but sure it could be other factors too.
Like simply losing viewers which I have no doubt the show has been losing. That seem pretty obvious listening to people online who said they stopped watching the show years ago. The question is how big it is? Since it got cancelled, I would say big enough at least.
I have no idea what you’re talking about with Marina Sirtis though. Can you elaborate?
I been saying for a long time now I don’t think anyone is really watching this show much anymore.
It doesn’t seem to be a show watched beyond the most hardcore fans these days and I bet half of them hate it like so many here.
I think both Picard and SNW is attracting way more viewers and another reason why it’s cancelled.
There was a TNG panel on the cruise with Sirtis, Stashwick, Spiner, De Lancie, and Frakes.
(Interestingly, only Frakes and Stashwick were at the Picard premiere.)
The question of a follow on series came up, and there were statements from Spiner and Frakes about how willingness among the actors or EPs wasn’t enough, even interest at Paramount had to be weighed.
Sirtis just said bluntly that it’s ‘show business’ and these have to be business decisions that make sense. That’s when she said ‘it’s well known that there were drop offs in subscriptions at Paramount. So they’ll have to see…”
At the start of All Access, CBS let the creative folks do their thing and took a step back. Those days are gone. Resources are now limited, with westerns and crime procedurals less expensive to produce while drawing more viewers.
So, no more rubber stamps for Star Trek.
Seriously Denny C?
I find it mind blowing than anyone can spend $23 million per episode on a Western but Sheridan does it.
Those are not less expensive than Trek.
OK thanks, but I been saying that since the first season. My theory of why we even got Pike and Spock in season 2 is because people who hated the show just cancelled their subscriptions and they needed the show to feel more ‘Trek-y’ fast to win those fans back or people who were put off from the beginning.
This has always been my theory and I’m not surprised by it. Honestly no one should be, paying for a streaming service for just ONE show is not appealing to many people out there, even if they are fans of it. And if they are not overly impressed by the show either, than even less so.
Now obviously it’s different today and there is a lot more there including more Star Trek. But sure, I can still see people dropping their subscriptions for a few months if they are simply not fans of a certain show and I’m sure every show gets it to a degree. But it’s probably less of an issue if people are not renewing for shows like LDS and PRO versus the expensive flagship show like Discovery.
And my guess is that show has gotten more drop offs every season now and why they didn’t even bother to wait to see how season 5 did before they cancelled it, because the drop offs have probably been that steep.
Yup, $100 million is a lot of money. If it’s delivering the numbers you need you keep running with it. If it doesn’t you shelve it. Some things in television, regardless of the platform, will never change.
I think there’s an important aspect beyond simple belt-tightening that’s missing in these discussions: Picard and (earlier seasons of) Discovery were co-financed by Amazon Prime and Netflix. Strange New Worlds is the first live-action Trek show that Paramount+ is doing on its own (except for whatever Bell Media is paying for the rights in Canada). That’s bound to change the whole business equation for Paramount+. I mean it’s probably much easier to get 5 million views (random number, not saying that’s what the shows get) on a service with 200 million subscribers than it is to get that number if you only have 50 million total subscribers.
It all comes down to numbers. Star Trek was always expensive to produce while Discovery was even more expensive to produce. Rising production costs paired with declining viewership make a program unsustainable.
I’m sure it was lost on no one at CBS that the most compelling aspects of Discovery season 2 were the reintroduction of classic elements from the franchise: Pike, Spock, Number One and the Enterprise. It was the shot in the arm that Discovery and Picard season 1 failed to deliver.
Discovery never really hit its stride but the franchise on Paramount+ eventually did.
Yeah, I think the irony of early DIS and PIC is that they told future shows what not to do lol. And that’s exactly why there is so much more fanfare for LDS, PRO and SNW because they went the opposite way of those shows from the beginning. It’s also why season 3 of Picard is getting so much more attention and interest because it too has hit a very different stride missing in the first two seasons.
Star Trek feels like it’s finally reaching its stride with these shows today and just feeling more like dare I say it, Star Trek. But yes they had to stumble a bit to get there.
It’s the show that started the new franchise.
None of frothing hate from some — who are celebrating this like they got laid for the first time in 10 years (which probably isn’t far from the truth lol) — can take antything away from that.
This comment made me laugh out loud! 😂
Very true though, and I’ve said it myself. Some people need to go out there and get lives and stop celebrating the fact that a whole lot of talented people are now unemployed, as that’s the reality of a decision like this, whatever you think of the show.
I’m forever grateful to Discovery, despite the fact that it never resonated with me, because I got to be so pleasantly surprised by something like Prodigy, which would not exist otherwise.
If I was brave enough to post my list of favorites here (which I am not), disco is square in the center of it because it brought the franchise back to TV and because it gave us Paul Stamets and Hugh Culber. (And Gray Tal.) And that is something that I will always be grateful for. Even if it wasn’t that well written, that could never outweigh my appreciation for those characters.
Wow, I totally forgot about David Ajala.
What a great addition to the show he was, and Tara Rosling who played T’Rina who Doug Jones name checked in his quote. I thought both of them really elevated DISC with their appearances, and gave Jones and Martin-Green some really nice things to work with performance-wise.
It’s a shame we really never got to know any of the bridge crew they’d cut to for some reaction shots whenever the stakes were high. I still laugh about that guy randomly bringing up how his town was wiped out by a hurricane when they were trying to rescue those prisoners and were running out of time to save them all. Disco sure was a wild soap opera fever dream at times. I will definitely not miss those absolutely cringeworthy, random and inappropriately timed exchanges of oversharing.
Fingers crossed that season 5 is a nice send off for the show.
Wow, the passion of the cast and crew of Discovery really comes through in many of these posts. I am super happy that it sounds like the cast and crew will be able to shoot more material and will be able to have a proper farewell with eachother later this summer.
Ultimately, the show tried something completely new and off the wall – it was never targeting legacy fans like myself. Unfortunately, those first six season one episodes were so offensive to many long time fans, the show never recovered… despite desperately attempting to do so.
As I have said prior, despite being my least favorite of all the new Trek shows, I am happy that it helped spin off the other four cirrent shows and Short Treks. Discovery also most embraced the adage of “Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations” and took it to the next level. I hope S5 really ends the series on a high note! LLAP
Not a fan of DSC, but I am a fan of SMG. She did a great job in her role on The Walking Dead. But for me, on this show was absolutely unwatchable. Bad writing. Just my opinion.
I will say I liked her more in the fourth season when she became a captain, but yeah overall she is pretty low on the totem pole for me too. And yes, awful writing. And maybe it would help if she wasn’t crying so damn much.
Please stop with this talk of endings and cancellations. Disco isn’t ending, it is continuing in a different form, such as we have seen with, say, the evolution of the Decker Unit.
Here’s hoping those “farewell” reshoots include a certain special giant tardigrade with a nose for the primo fungi.
Phew, so many conflicting emotions. Will try to do something constructive … am compiling the Top 10 Rhys Moments … eesh, this is gonna be a long night …
No need to snark. The actor’s been gracious and so should we.
In fact, most of the bridge crew have done well by Discovery. Here’s a compilation of what else they’ve been up to…
The actor who plays Gen Rhys (Patrick Kwok-Soong) like the other bridge cast has done well by the profile and steady income.
In the meantime, he’s had some lead roles (an FX anthology; romance made-for-streaming movie), some guest starring roles and another regular gig as Kia’s advertisement narrator in Canada.
He’s recently signed with a major American talent agency for his US side representation. He’ll be fine.
Raven Dauda who plays Dr Pollard is well established in television and theatre in Canada, and has won major awards for her one-woman shows that she writes. I have to wonder if she inspired or encouraged Anthony Rapp to do his one man retrospective on RENT.
Oyin Oladje, who plays Owo, has continued to do theatre in Toronto, been main cast on a CBC tween children’s show for two seasons, and has been cast as the lead in a significant independent film about a refugee mother from Nigeria in Canada.
Ronnie Rowe Jr is now a principal on a CBC/BET+ historical drama “The Porter” and has been the lead in one or two Hallmark movies a year. He also was in award winning Canadian independent films, and was nominated for a best supporting actor Canadian Screen Award for one of them.
Emily Coutts who plays Detmer, and arguably got the most depth of the bridge crew, has been working on her own indie producing and directing projects.
Treks all time low.
The only way is up. Hopefully.
I could be completely wrong as I have no knowledge of how these things work, but I do find the timing of the announcement a little strange….
I cant help feeling either the decision to end Discovery was already made but they wanted to give Picard S3 a couple of weeks to have the buzz in the news cycle and not have focus pulled away from it… alternatively they wanted to see what the early reaction to Picard S3 was and the positive reviews have fed into the Discovery decision.
Discovery has never been my favourite show, but its sad to see any Trek show come to an end.
Hopefully there will be good news soon on what new show is going to series (maybe P+ announces that after Picard finishes airing?) just it currently feels like new Trek episodes for 2024 may be a bit sparse. :(
Doing it during the cruise was poor timing, but it otherwise makes sense.
It sounds like there was some legal deadline to negotiate and sign extensions for a further season or not.
I think it’s likely the suits knew they were going to axe DSC. It’s the oldest of the current crop of Trek shows, therefore likely the most expensive. Paramount+ released a couple different “2023 trailers” at the beginning of the year, highlighting what was to come. Each trailer had a shot or two of DSC, so I do think they started the year planning to stream S5 as originally intended. Kurtzman and Paradise probably pushed back, asking for time to do re-shoots (and hopefully add a couple episodes) to truly give the show a satisfying ending. That also works for Paramount+, even if there’s a PIC spin-off cooking that they’re trying to keep under wraps.
Even if they start filming this year, any PIC spin-off wouldn’t be ready to stream until early 2025. If you push DSC’s final season to “early 2024,” that gives you 10 (hopefully more) episodes, add in ten episodes each for DSC S3, LDS S5, and PRG S2 (Part 2).
Angela Bassett, an incredibly talented actress, dodged a bullet with this show, would have been damaging for her career . I don’t think even she would have saved it. On the flip side, had they got her in with a different show runner at the helm, this show may have completely spun on its head and become loved and not as polarizing. Hopefully they bring her in for a future trek show.
I don’t think that was ever a serious thing though, just blown out of proportion in the media. Bryan Fuller had said his dream casting would be Bassett as the captain, and Rosario Dawson as the first officer. But Bassett herself said she was tied up with American Horror Story at the time, and with raising twins, she just wouldn’t have the time for it as much as she liked the idea.
I guess she really “did the thing” when she decided not to be part of it as her career has had somewhat of a renaissance over the past decade thanks to AHS. And she’s currently nominated for a best supporting actress Oscar for Wakanda Forever which she may win in a weeks time, the first person from a Marvel film to be nominated in an acting category.
I doubt she’ll ever have any involvement with a Start Trek series tbh.
Ironically, the series became obnoxious for being so emotional and tearful. At least it gave us Strange New Worlds which is 10 times better.
Discovery could have been set in the JJ verse, it could have not happened at all or it could have been a new reboot. It paved the way to a new era of Star Trek in the same timeline we all love. It had issues, but a lot of Trek has. I am fearful its departure in the canary in the coal mine, but grateful for it kicking off hours of enjoyment I’ve gotten over the last few years, warts and all.
Discovery is one or my best Star Trek shows of all time. I have been a lifelong trekie since I was 4 years old starting with the old star Trek series. I feel saddened by the news that the 5th season will be the last. But all good things come to an end. I just hope there will be another Star Trek series just as good but great like Discovery.
Good riddance, Disco. I was very enthusiastic at the beginning, and tried to like it, but I couldnt. Only Trek show I never got to watch enterely.
This show had THE WORST writing of all Star Trek ever (well, up there with Picard S1 and S2) and some of the most unbearable characters and acting in all Star Trek shows ever, and that is saying something.
I got they wanting to do a serialized narrative, it is what the market seems to demand now (not me), but they needed better showrunners and better writers. It was a mess from the very beginning and they kept rebooting it to see if something stuck.
Well, it gave us SNW, so that is something.
Does the market really demand serialized storytelling? Shows like NCIS and NCIS procedurals would disagree with you
I didn’t even realize NCIS was still on the air? Isn’t Mark Harmon like 75 now?
Enterprise had much worse writing than DSC, and it’s not even close. DSC’s writing was hit and misc, approx equivalent to VOY and LDS.
Agreed on the atrocious writing. But representation matters. And the cast was fantastic. It isn’t their fault the bad writing. They did the job they were asked to do. To me the show died after they traveled so far into the future the show didn’t matter anymore. A major mistake.
Al’so agree! Discovery is a really bad show with just awful writing for four seasons straight now. It probably should’ve been cancelled much sooner.
But I will say one of the reasons I supported the show despite it being my worst Trek show is due to its representation and diversity. I think they did a good job there more than the other new shows.
But it still needs to be good and Discovery was rarely that most of the time.
I have absolutely enjoyed DSC and I’m sad to see it go. I’m looking forward to the final season, and I hope they are able to use the re-shoots to tie things up nicely.