Production on the second season of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds wrapped up last July, and Paramount+ has yet to set a release date. However, it looks like that news is coming soon, along with official confirmation about another season.
Strange New Announcement… soon
Last week, Strange New Worlds co-showrunner Akiva Goldsman was one of the speakers at an MIT event on science and science fiction. During his moderated discussion he spoke about Strange New Worlds and indicated we should expect news soon regarding season 2—and season 3:
Today or tomorrow we’re announcing the airdate of the second season, which we filmed like 17 years ago… and you’ll be really surprised because we just went all over the place. And we’ve just starting filming the third season now.
This is the first sort of official acknowledgment that work has already begun on the third season, which Paramount+ hasn’t even officially announced. The talk happened five days ago on March 15, so Goldsman’s prediction regarding the announcement of the season 2 premiere date didn’t happen.
As noted in a TrekMovie analysis in early March, Paramount has yet to announce dates for any live-action or animated Star Trek shows coming after the Star Trek: Picard series finale on April 20, nor have they officially announced moving forward on production on any new seasons for the remaining four Trek shows or any new Star Trek television projects. The last big announcement with release dates and season orders came in January of 2022. The only news since that analysis was a confirmation that the fifth season of Star Trek: Discovery will be the last and its release was moved to early 2024. As of now, the only other show that has an order for episodes taking it past 2023 is Prodigy, with a second season order of 20, the first 10 of which are expected this year.
It’s possible news on what’s next for Strange New Worlds and more Star Trek TV could come soon, however, Paramount+ could be holding out for First Contact Day, which is coming on April 5.
Akiva talks SNW hybrid model
During his talk at MIT, Goldsman noted that even though the subject of the talk was about science fiction, Strange New Worlds defies such a simple label:
Strange New Worlds is doing a thing, which I think a lot of us loved about The Original Series, which is, it jumps genre. By the way, “science fiction” is kind of a misnomer because there are all kinds of science fiction. What’s fun about Strange New Worlds, like The Original Series, is we’ll do comedy, we’ll do action-adventure, we’ll do hard sci-fi, we’ll do romance. Yes they are all in this same cradle of science fiction, but they are subsets.
He also talked about how the show differs from TOS by leaning into serialized character stories:
There’s something great about standalone, there’s something great about episodic, and there’s something great today about the hybrid model where you can have episodic stories but serialized character arcs. Because poor Jim Kirk, in The Original Series, had to watch Edith Keeler die, and then be just fine next week. And that’s no fun for an actor or a writer. You want people to suffer and carry loss or gain. So we can do that now on the streaming platforms while still doing episodic stories.
You can watch his complete talk about his career and approach to storytelling as part of the full MIT stream. (His part of the program starts at 2:03:18.)
Season 2 clip
While we wait for the season 2 release date announcement (and perhaps a new trailer), here is a clip from last year.
Reminder: Season 1 arrives this week on Blu-ray/DVD
Season 1 of Strange New Worlds arrives on Blu-ray, DVD, and limited-edition Blu-ray Steelbook on Tuesday, March 21. The release features over 90 minutes of special features.
Amazon has pre-order links up now: Blu-ray $33.59 / Blu-ray/Steelbook $39.89 / DVD $29.39 / 4K UHD Blu-ray Steelbook $59.99. (coming May 16)
Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
So the ‘news’ is that soon, there will soon be some news.Thanks. Got it.
Also the fact that Season 3 started filming, but far be it from me to assume you’ve read the article! I do think it’s funny that it’s not mentioned in the headline though, which says S3 confirmation is “imminent.” I’d think the fact that it’s filming is pretty solid confirmation…
It’s not 100% a guarantee these days, some shows have been known to start production before getting cancelled. I wouldn’t be surprised if filming doesn’t mean some things like lighting tests.
It does sound rather more like they are simply holding back an announcement for a particular date.
Unless he specifies otherwise, it’s pretty clear what he means. “Started filming” almost exclusively means actors filming scenes. Things like costume tests, lighting, etc. is usually referred to as “production.”
But even if you’re right, it’s big news and worth putting in the headline.
SNW lighting tests? Are you freaking serious, dude? Lol, the lead actor said they are filming — how much more clear does this have to be made out to you?
It’s interesting because the most recent guild listings for Ontario still have SNW in the ‘preproduction’ category.
It looks however like the director of the first episode is in place and working ahead of shooting, so that could be what Goldsman is referring to.
In any case, the entirety of season two was shot because Paramount officially announced it was greenlit, so I don’t take any negative from a delay in announcement.
They are still maximizing the impact of Picard season 3. They won’t want to risk distracting from that with SNW until closer to the end of Picard’s run.
All i’m saying is, if any form of production is underway — be it pre-production, or filming of episodes — that’s enough to confirm a third season.
It just might not be enough to confirm a 3rd season. Any number of situations can halt production or cancel a project.
The director for Free Enterprise II had funding for his sequel pulled five days before filming began. Rob (the director) told me it was tough to call Mr. Shatner and tell him the project was cancelled. Warner Brothers have shelved several COMPLETED films.
Right now, a considerable amount of $$ for original content on Par+ goes to the Yellowstone franchise.
It could be like it was in the ’60s. Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-In bumped TOS to Friday nights.
If the creator of Yellowstone, Taylor Sheridan, needs (or needed) more $$ for production costs?
You can bet Par+ found(or would find) it for him.
If Par+ needed funds that may have been earmarked for DSC, from a business standpoint, I can see why Par+ would (or did) cancel an expensive show like Star Trek is.
Yellowstone’s remote on-location filming can be as complex and expensive as making a Trek or genre show/movie. One only needs to watch the Yellowstone prequels 1883 and 1923. As their titles suggest, they occur during those times in American history. Recreating the past is as complicated as creating a future world.
Sigh. That’s not what I mean. Moving on.
I feel your frustration with the Negative Nellies. It’s bizarre , dysfunctional and just plain weird how so many fans are in denial.
It’s f****** filming, people. Like no shit, Sherlock’s…lol
They can still just go outside and shoot YELLOWSTONE without VFX, except maybe painting out telephone poles. With TREK, going ‘outside’ means spacesuits and CGI.
Picard season three has stayed ahead of 1923 in the available metrics – in the US, Canada and Europe.
It was third in the US on Parrot Analytics top ten for the week ending March 10th, behind only Mandalorian and Stranger Things. (Haven’t seen the March 17th list with the new Ted Lasso in, but there’s no reason to believe it’s below top four or five.)
But 1923, at $23 million per episode is two to three times the cost and barely broke the upper half of the top ten.
This has to be registering with Paramount executives.
While it’s true that numbers we can’t see are crucial – e.g., how many new subscribers does a show draw in and what else in the library will hold them? — this still raises questions.
It’s not obviously that the Sheridan shows are the golden franchise that gets priority for resources.
That’s weird you say that because Picard’s actually doing better in the viewership analytics right now than 1923 and 1923 costs a lot more than Picard.
If anything, P is probably re-evaluating its ROI on Yellowstone franchise
I wonder if Paramount went a little too hard too fast on Yellowstone spin-offs. It’s a popular show stateside, but it’s not a huge global franchise.
Someone speculated elsewhere that they may be doing some location shooting outside of Ontario now.
They did that at the end of their product of season two, and for the ‘Montana’ opening scenes of season one. Sounds likely.
In terms of Ontario, folks in Mississauga are reporting the trailers being delivered to CBS Stages where the SNW soundstages are located. It seems like the first week of May date given in the guild notices for Ontario production are still on track.
I think the ‘news’ is the fact that there is even news to tell following the cancellation of DISCO which IMHO is pretty significant.
“Because poor Jim Kirk, in The Original Series, had to watch Edith Keeler die, and then be just fine next week. And that’s no fun for an actor or a writer. You want people to suffer and carry loss or gain.”
I’m not a big fan of Goldsman’s work, but that aside, I have to say he nailed it here. Great example.
Yes, but he’s also (repeatedly) talking about it as if SNW finally cracked the formula, and does it all in this new and clever way, surpassing TOS (and likely in his mind, TNG and VOY as well)…
…when they’re basically doing what DS9 did more or less from the beginning!!! Spinning multiple character and story arcs, and interweaving them into this very interesting, very rich tapestry! ☝️😃👍
Yes, it took DS9 a bit to fully get there (starting with the whole Emissary/Bajoran spiritual and political subplots, then moving big time into multiple Dominion-related arcs like Odo’s journey, and the quadrants- spanning war, of course), while SNW was able to jump right into the formula; but so far I’d say that DS9 usually did it better (especially in their later seasons), possibly because they’ve had more time for it all. 🤷♂️
But I’m still enjoying SNW a lot, and I’m very much looking forward to its second season, hoping for them to just get better and better! I’m especially looking forward to Carol Kane’s character… 🖖🤩
I have never gotten the impression that he thinks he’s the first person to ever do this, nor that he thinks he’s made the best Trek series of all time. When I hear Goldsman talk, it just sounds like he’s super excited, proud of what he’s made, and happy that fans are enjoying it.
You might be right in that he doesn’t ever “diss” the other shows beyond giving a TOS example or two, but I remember watching him on The Ready Room during SNW’s first season (at least I think that’s where he appeared), and talking more like they’re finally combining the classic, closed-episode TOS/TNG-style with modern DSC-style season arcs… and I was waiting for and wondering why he didn’t just give credit where it’s due. It stood out to me then, and seems like a continuation now.
DS9 basically provided the blueprint for modern, engaging Trek, and I’d just like to see these new showrunners acknowledge the work more directly when being handed out specific compliments. 🤷♂️
It’s just as possible that he was not inspired by DS9, and it is something he learned along the way working on Discovery, Picard, and other shows like Titans, and Underground…
Not trying to look like I love the man or anything. SNW is basically the first show he’s EP’d that I think is any better than average… but I also don’t think he’s trying to discredit anyone.
Giving Ira credit would open up the can o’ worms about why isn’t he in the position Goldsman fell up into. And that in turn would probably get us into the ‘why did it take so many years for Par+/ShoTrek to get its act somewhat together?’ For me, we’ve had almost half a good season of SNW and probably that much of PICARD s3, and not much else good to show for all that time and money. It’s strange that they will spend so much on problem shows like DSC just to keep them on the air long enough to figure things out (or not) when nearly everybody else has to hit it out of the park right out of the gate just to get to season 2. All Trek except TOS and TAS has had a built-in cushion that almost encouraged mediocrity at first, because they were working with such a safety net.
Boy, I can’t disagree any more. He could certainly give credit to Ira Behr without opening up any cans, I don’t even grasp that concept. What’s to explain about Behr, who’d been gone from the franchise for 17 years when Trek was revived with DSC???
As for not giving credit to DS9, I think it’s a simple lack of awareness, as he’s not a longtime Trek producer, but an outside hire who might not be as familiar with DS9.
As for “good Trek” — DSC, while I don’t think was very good, has LOTS of fans, and if you ask me it’s biggest problem was caving to whiny fanboys.
Lastly, SNW was great from start to finish and audience AND critic scores across the board reflect this… while you’ve conveniently left out that Prodigy has been far above everyone’s expectations.
I haven’t seen PRODIGY at all and have tried unsuccessfully to watch LOWER DECKS three times now, so I think my allergy to nearly all animation is going to poison my outlook on those approaches.
I didn’t realize DSC did any caving … does that mean that what they did in the later seasons was in response to fan complaints? I only saw 2 seasons and only lasted that long because of Mount’s charm. I’ve tried twice to watch s3 and it was like trying to watch EN s2 … just no way no how.
I gave up midway through S3. Season 2 was better, but the story was still a mess, and my hopes of continued improvement were dashed the next year.
But they caved by moving into the future, to placate fans who hated the prequel concept. The showrunners claimed “oh well it helped us avoid canon issues and gave us freedom!” and then they did SNW. So…
Lots of other little things they caved too, I forget who it was, but one of the 90s era writers commented on it, and basically said “never listen to the fans” — their message being, do what you think is best and let it ride. If people hate it, they hate it. I totally agree.
I may have hated it even if they continued doing their own thing, but it least the show would have had integrity that I could respect.
Interesting. I thought only the tiniest sliver of fan subsets was advocating for the far-off future, had no idea the idea ever had or gained traction to the point of actually influencing TPTB.
For me, nearly all franchise execution has been terminally flawed this century, except for the first two Nolan Batflicks. Bond forgot how to orchestrate action and make it work with filmscore, plus, with seeming malevolence, trashed character all along the way. While TREK … well, I’ve gone on forever about how they rarely seem to know how to tell a story in a way that engages and resonates and encourages rewatches. I’m not even asking for captivating — just what I would consider to be solid execution that doesn’t always have my eyes rolling or wondering, ‘how did nobody in that room bring up these objections before this went to the floor and got shot?’ Granted, we all find moments like this in nearly every series, but a lack of constancy in vision, coupled with dozens of missed or mishandled dramatic opportunities is a helluva one-two punch when it comes to knocking me out from any sense of enjoyment.
The fanbase wasn’t necessarily saying “the far off future” but they were screaming for a show set Post-Nemesis. So the producers of DSC did them one better, and went as far into the future of canon as they could.
I just wish they had ignored the fans and made stories they felt were great (even as early as Season 1, after Fuller was fired, the whole series seemed like they never knew what they wanted to do and were constantly readjusting).
Let it sink or swim on its own merits, but just ignore the noise and write the best darn thing you can.
Well they thought they were by putting it in the far future. As you said, NO ONE was asking for that, it’s what they came up with on their own because they just wanted to be free and tell their own stories. And we saw how well that went which meant not very well. Maybe season 5 will change that, but it doesn’t matter anymore lol.
Discovery had problems literally since day one, but probably because they were given a show they didn’t know what to do with once the guy who created it was fired or quit (I’m guessing the former ;)). It just seemed like a show that couldn’t identify what it wanted to be, tonally all over the place and on top of that just not a well written show which I still blame that on its current crappy showrunner, Michelle Paradise, who I hope never works on a Star Trek show again.
And speaking of, no fan was begging for more crying and melodrama every season but they kept doubling down on that too. So they listened to some things for sure, but there were still things they were doing on their own they thought made the show it’s own even when fans constantly balked over it. I’m not saying it’s those things that helped get it cancelled, but I don’t think it helped either.
I know I have said this ad nauseum LOL, but putting DIS in the far future created it’s own set of problems. Sure, they stayed away from crapping all over canon like no other Trek show had gone before, but in so doing they created 700+ years of new and my I say CRAPPY canon that any new Trek show has to adhere too. And now that I think about it, they STILL broke canon because Daniels, who came 100 years before DIS S3, did not need WARP to travel the stars in the slightest. Dilithium should be meaningless.
EXACTLY, amirami. I’ve said for a LONG time that while a prequel presents a challenge, setting a series in the future of Voyager/Nemesis is no less challenging (after 500 episodes of technobabble there’s now tech that can solve any problem and a complex history that creates its own problems)… but 1000 years ahead?
Well, they ended up doing exactly what I predicted over a decade ago, with a galactic reset, an interstellar crisis, and a crumbling of the Federation. Not that i’m against that in theory, but at that point, it kind of negates a lot of the history that you’ve built up that draws fans in.
A crumbling Federation would be fine in theory, if done right. This was a master class in the wrong way to do it IMHO. I just feel like the Kurtzman crew didn’t watch a single episode of ENT with Daniels in it to understand at all what the future Federation should look like.
I don’t disagree with that too much…but it’s still Discovery lol. My guess is it would ultimately be bad in the 23rd season, 25th season or the 32nd season if the people writing it still didn’t have a grasp on the show or universe overall which sadly still showed IMO.
You heard me say multiple times how stupid I thought the whole Burn thing was and yes thought it was silly dilithium was still such a thing. And in that century all the ships should’ve had spore drives from the start. It was ridiculous 900 years later the technology didn’t exist at all.
I liked it was in the 32nd century because it was finally just something new and different but sadly still didn’t make the show any better and in some ways worse. Again, I don’t blame that on the era the show took place in, simply the people writing it and the awful showrunner more than anything.
You give it to a group NOT involved with Discovery and it may have been amazing.
Agreed on all counts my friend.
Wasn’t it Ron Moore who said that line?
I thought it was him, but wasn’t sure because I couldn’t find it.
kmart, it surprising that you’re not so much into animation as a medium.
Prodigy is quite lovely, as one would expect with an award winning European director of animation. Some of the digital matts are breathtaking.
As with most television, the capacity constraints of the digital animation and vfx industry show at times. It’s as not as perfect technically as it might be. But within the frame of a Nickelodeon production, it’s exceptional.
Would be interested in your view.
I’ve got TAS on DVD — it was under five bucks — but to be honest, I’d probably be okay with having it only on VHS, because I didn’t watch it so much as listen to it. I think the last time I was impressed with animation was THE GREAT MOUSE DETECTIVE, and even there I still nodded off during the song. There’s a song in WATERSHIP DOWN too, and I nodded off during that too, though I thought that was a great movie — so good I’ve never ever needed to rewatch it. Weird, cuz most great things I want to rewatch every couple years. Again, animation.
I’ll try to take a look again while I’ve got P+ for the next month, to be able to see the rest of PICARD and some s5 DS9s (only season I don’t have on DVD.) If I get into it, I’ll let you know, def!
Yeah TBH there is only so much upscaling you can do with TAS to make it HD worthy. Just a sign of the times I guess.
Or encouraging mediocrity by not wanting to tamper with a winning formula. That sword cuts both ways.
I applaud any filmmaker who wants to take a big risk, especially when they know the biggest risk is making the fanbase mad. That’s bold and should be applauded, even if it doesn’t work.
The best things in life don’t come from playing it safe. Progress and advancement are always the result of coloring outside the lines.
That’s quite a leap of faith to assume that. Can you back up your claim with a quote that shows he was inspired by DS9?
I frankly kind of doubt it, and I suspect Discovery and other more modern series’ was where the inspiration came from.
I didn’t say that I assumed any such thing, did I? 🤷♂️
I said that “they’re basically doing what DS9 did more or less from the beginning” (my own opinion, obviously), and that I was “wondering why he didn’t just give credit where it’s due” — which, admittedly is speculation based on what I’d read and heard from the man himself.
But I’m willing to deliver receipts:
There are verifyable facts, such as Akiva Goldsman having attended his first Star Trek convention in 1976. Yes, he might’ve not attended every year since, but he’s spoken about being a fan (saying “there are very few things in life that I loved as much as Star Trek when I was a kid”), and I think that the strong delivery of SNW is proof of that as well. Has he very actively followed the franchise since, or watched any or all of DS9? I do not know. But he certainly knows his Trek! ☝️🧐
For where I’m coming from, watch 📺 The Ready Room episode from May 5th, 2022 (on P+ or for free on YouTube), from time index ▶️ 13:41 on, and then again from time index ▶️ 18:13 onward! The latter part is what I had initially been referring to, where I would’ve liked him to have credited DS9 for Trek beginning the formulaic mix of episodic storytelling combined with show spanning story arcs and character evolution, that SNW now successfully employs as well… though, as AlphaPredator has pointed out, maybe Goldsman just wasn’t “inspired” by it, and it’s certainly possible that he does have a knowledge gap in ’90s Trek. (And if that’s the case, too bad for him, IMO. 😉)
“which, admittedly is speculation”
Okay, so long as we’re clear on this that this is just your conjecture.
So given this, we don’t know what he needs to give credit to — none of us do. So he doesn’t owe DS9 anything at this point in terms of credit.
Yeah, I was clear about that from the start. No need to read assumptions or accusations into my writing (as I obviously don’t know, and just wonder); but maybe rereading helps before jumping to conclusions!
As far as I’m concerned, he doesn’t “need” to give credit to anybody or anything, nor does he “owe” anybody anything. (That wording, again, just makes it seem as if you’re trying to stir up controversy that just isn’t there — coincidence or a pattern? 😉)
Either way, I think that it’d certainly be interesting to find out if Goldsman has seen DS9 or not, if he recognizes the formula or not, and if not speaking toward any potential acknowledgment of DS9 pioneering it for Trek in such consistent fashion might be calculated omission in any way (but what for?), just an ignorant oversight (unlikely, for somebody who’s proven to be so cerebral), or honest obliviousness on his part (possibly most likely?).
Thanks for clarifying that. Given another poster also thought you were assuming that, perhaps you should be more careful in the way you write this stuff rather than getting all defensive and blaming the reader…just saying…lol
Naw… as I’m rereading Alpha’s wording above (if that’s who you’re referring to), they appear to have understood me just fine, and don’t seem to have thought that I fully assumed a definite inspiration. We just disagreed on how Goldsman comes across, while still agreeing that anything’s possible as far as inspiration goes.
So, I think the ongoing issue is really just comprehension and/or incautiously jumping to conclusions. BTW, no defensiveness, just analytical clarity.
LOL, sure, whatever you say.
Well he’s not wrong. 99% on Rotton Tomatoes is no joke!
He did and he is right. There should have been fallout. Even the 100% episodic TNG had fall out for Picard from BOBW. But frankly the late 60’s was an entirely different era of television. And, ironically, Star Trek in the 60’s didn’t have the Star Trek legacy to live up too.
One would assume they’d save announcements for First Contact Day, which they’ve been holding an annual event for.
Yes, as indicated in the above article. So… in 16 days we should know for sure. 🤞😀
I think there should be an entire week of annual celebration now, from First Contact Day on April 5 till Frontier Day on April 12 :-)
Yeah I think that’s the intention but it’s still so weird not to have any official word on anything for months now. The only thing we know, officially, is that DIS was cancelled and will run it’s last season next year. The last news we got before that was the TNG cast was going to be back in Picard and its start date and that’s literally been it for nearly the last year now. I don’t get why they been so quiet with SNW since they shot season two literally last year and we haven’t even gotten a teaser trailer for it yet.
“Per showrunner” LOL!
I generally liked the concept that there were from time to time an episode would lean towards a different genre. But I feel like that worked better when there were over 20 episodes a season. The occasional change of pace was a good thing. With only 10… Not sure it’s a good idea to use up one of your very limited episodes with that sort of thing. Some of the better episodes were ones where they changed the tone (ie: The Trouble with Tribbles). But let’s face it… A lot of them were dog episodes. But admittedly, this is a very very small issue with the problems this show has.
I do miss the “filler” episodes, but I feel like in today’s market, those kinds of stories would get ripped to shreds by a fandom that wants everything to be perfect.
Personally, there’s more than enough room for stories that are just “pretty good” or even “OK.” As for the problems this show has, they are very very few and minor, that I can hardly even think of them off the top of my head!
As a person who enjoys the cheesiest of the cheese, episodes like “Spock’s Brain” or “The Way to Eden” I just don’t get this idea of having “perfect” episodes. Sometimes a little flaw, a little cheese makes stuff more entertaining in my opinion. I think as a species we are taking things, especially entertainment, far more seriously than its needed. Yes, I am also a big fan of B movies out there, stuff like Galaxy of Terror or Chopping Mall. Sometimes all you need in entertainment is just pure, silly fun.
You’re right, but it’s not just the cheese. Stories with small plot holes? That’s fine. A character doing something that’s inconsistent with their behavior across the other 50-100 episodes? That’s fine. Maybe it’s not the most exciting story, or the most fascinating, maybe the pacing is uneven, or whatever — those are hallmarks of those filler episodes, but nowadays audiences would not stand for any of that, even in a single episode.
You’d have peoplecrowing about how “we got 26 episodes and not a single one that had no flaws. Even the things I did enjoy were fluke.”
The one ep of SNW S2 that I agree on this is the Lower Decks crossover. At 20 eps per season sure go ahead and try it. But with only 10, a crossover between a cartoon and a Live Action TOS recreation sound 50/50 at best
I’m excited for that one. VERY excited. But i’m sort of with you on this. With a limited run, i’d prefer 10 strong, straight-forward Trek episodes. I love big swings and big risks — that’s what excites me about the episode — but I feel like it should have been a TV movie or something, not part of the 10-episode run.
Heck, make it an episode of Lower Decks, instead!
Totally agreed. Do the exact same ep. Except make it part of the Lower Decks run, not the SNW run. The concept itself sounds like a lot of fun. Honestly though my biggest fear is seeing cartoons and live action mesh in an episode together feels like it would be akin to breaking the 4th wall. Not the same thing but in a way kinda the same result of taking you out of the story through believability.
You’re absolutely right! And that’s why it might work even BETTER as a Lower Decks episode. My gut says they lumped it with SNW either for the simple reason that the SNW writers dreamt it up… or… more likely… it’s too expensive to fit in the LDS budget.
I say more likely only because I get the feeling the idea originated from Kurtzman or Goldsman, not one of the writers on either of the shows.
I’ve a friend who works in the TV business in the UK. She has access to different resources and told me official filming begins in May. If they truly are filming right now? It’s most likely reshoots and pickup shots to complete season 2. If some filming is happening for the 3rd season? It might be 2nd unit crew. Also, CBS Studios Canada (I think) is a permanent location in Mississauga, near Toronto. CBS would have more control over overhead costs and logistics. Mississauga is very close to Pearson Intl. Airport. When cast and crew or guest stars arrive at the Toronto airport, it’s a quick ride to CBS Studios and vice versa. Pinewood Studios, where DSC is filmed, is more challenging as one has to get through downtown Toronto. And Canada and Ontario, perhaps even Mississauga, give generous tax breaks to attract TV/Film productions. If the tax credit for Pinewood has expired, I can understand why CBS decided season 5 was the last one due to rising costs. Wall Street is pressuring all the streamers to start to turn a profit. If I’ve read correctly, even Disney + has not been profitable.
I doubt the tax credit was specifically tied to Pinewood Toronto Studios, but the lease might be up, and the renewal might be prohibitive.
The original lease would have been with the Pinewood Group, but ownership changed in 2018.
Pinewood is on city of Toronto land so the city is an owner. BellMedia bought a major stake and took over management in 2018 as well. There are a few local holding companies involved as well.
As part of the deal, BellMedia is building additional space, but until then demand is high and the bridge set for Discovery is occupying one of high-ceilinged purpose-built soundstages.
Re: Goldsman and serialization … I always thought Kirk really needed that season 1 to season 2 break, because he loses Edith Keeler one week and his brother Sam the very next. So whether it was intended as serialized or not, TOS definitely conveyed some sense of that, at least to me when I watched the show 2x daily in syndication during the early 70s. And they did have occasional little continuity nods, or what can be taken as such, like in DEADLY YEARS when Kirk mentions CORBOMITE and Sulu looks over at Chekov like, ‘I told you about that one, right?’
…and it really is a shame they couldn’t/didn’t serialize it even a little bit especially after those traumatic events, because that would have added layers to the Kirk character we were never exposed to during the series.
Nice catch on the Corbomite callback. That was a cool moment.
So many people who have time too much time on their hands obsessively debating the title to this article and its contents…. No wonder there are some people who are hating on season 3 of Picard when most of the world is enjoying it. My days!
It feels like his bonus this year is dependent on how many times he says “like TOS”.
He’s just giving the fanboys what they want. After how they piled on DSC, you can’t blame him.
Given there are TOS fanboys who have been bellowing about no new TOS on television since TNG premiered in 1987, it needs to be part of the branding.
I mean, I know it’s been 40 years, but crazy how back then nobody wanted anything BUT that era, on the Enterprise, and now everyone is like GO INTO THE UMPTEENTH CENTURY ON A NEW STARSHIP WITH A WHOLE NEW CREW!
Like I said, it’s been a long time, but boy how sentiment has changed…
Because that’s all people knew back then. They couldn’t imagine Star Trek without a Kirk or a starship Enterprise. You had to have at least one of those elements.
Today it’s very different for many reasons, for one having many shows that has gone past that idea and more importantly you have several generations of fans who has grown up with all these shows on. They don’t look at Star Trek as just one entity or era like the people who grew up with TOS no more than younger Star Wars fans don’t look at that franchise just based around the OT era. It’s THOSE people who want to see the universe keep advancing because that’s the universe they were already born into.
I’m not saying I don’t understand the why, it’s just funny. It’s proof that fans don’t actually know what they want until they get it, and illustrative of precisely why studios should be very careful when “listening to the fans.”
You’re 100% right. Fans will say all kinds of stuff online, but give them a good series and they’ll like it regardless of the context and regardless of what they said online.
That said, there is still a belligerent segment of the fanbase that will dig their heels in. If they say they don’t want a prequel, but get one that’s FLAWLESS they’ll insist it’s terrible, and find all sorts of nonsense to nitpick to justify it.
Actually I disagree with that because as I have said multiple times in the past the fanbase is not a monolith. It’s not that fans don’t know what they want, it’s simply fans who want different things. There is a wide chasm there. Everyone on the internet, for the most part are anonymous, no one knows what someone is thinking until they express it and that can be wildly different from the last guy or girl who posted their ideas before them.
That’s the difference, the fanbase is as diverse as Star Trek is today and I mean in terms of how it’s presented. Yeah there are plenty of people like me who want to see new things because frankly from TOS-ENT that’s basically what we got, right? And as said, that’s what a lot of people who weren’t even born when TNG or even ENT started were born into, so for them it’s natural to have various time periods and crews. If you’re a 20 something or even a 30 something, it’s literally been that way all their lives. Only us oldies can recall a time it was just one show on lol.
Then there are people who want mostly the Star Trek they were introduced to first like people who originally watched TOS for example. And it make sense since that obviously started the franchise. But then you have people who became fans due to TNG wanted more of that. Then people who liked DS9 wanted more of that. Same for VOY and so on.
But ultimately I believe most fans, at least hardcore fans like you find here will accept pretty much anything as long as its good.Even when its not so good lol. As I said, I am one of those fans who want new things. I was hoping when DIS was announced, it would be something completely new and start in a new time period passed everything we know. I wasn’t asking for a show starring Picard or Janeway and I certainly didn’t want a TOS prequel at all. I thought they should do what TNG did and wipe the slate clean starting in the 25th century but like 50 years after Nemesis when most of the TNG era characters have passed on.
Obviously that didn’t happen but I still wanted to like the show and while I originally hated it was a prequel, I got over it and in fact season 2 is still my favorite of the show. Same issue I originally had with Enterprise and even the Kelvin movies. I grew to love Enterprise and always liked the Kelvin movies from the start even if I’m not a huge fan of them. I loved SNW out of the gate.
I’ll go one step farther, while like everyone I was thrilled that Picard was going to be part of Star Trek again, I actually would’ve preferred we didn’t get any TNG era character and simply a new cast of characters in the 25th century. I was super excited to have Picard back, but I was more excited it could open the door to that era again and hopefully with new characters, ala the next next generation. We kind of got that lol. I say kind of because while we got plenty of new characters in Picard, LDS and PRO, the focus is still very much on the legacy characters ala Picard season 3, which I completely understand why. And again most of us here are happy either way if a show is filled with new characters or legacy characters. As long as it’s good, it’s a win-win for most I imagine.
So yeah, as fans we’re not a monolith. That not only means we want different things but it also means we can accept different things too; especially if the show/movie is good or we just become attached to the characters. It’s not an either/or situation or black or white. So yes it’s hard to listen to the ‘fans’ when they want a dozen different things depending on who you ask. ;)
…even as a diehard TOS fan, it infuriates me as to why they continue to re-cast Kirk, Spock, etc. in both film and TV to this day. Move on, for God’s sake. Especially when that casting goes seemingly awry (SNW Kirk\Paul Wesley).
Reference the classic TOS characters and their adventures when appropriate of course, honor them, maybe even build on those adventures as they did in the last season 1 episode of SNW, but do it with NEW crews, NEW *strong* characters.
It is possible to build compelling characters in Trek without going back to the well. We’ve seen that in Saru and Hemmer, underutilized as they have been.
I am not even a fan of Kirk as a character, and would love if they moved on from him entirely. That said, if it makes people upset, I’m all for it.
I cannot disagree more. I’m really hoping that SNW is setting up a “the original series continues” series in a couple years that starts halfway through year three of the 5-year mission
Yup, I realize there’s some folks calling for that. To each their own.
You know we tend to forget this but no one really ever stipulated AFAIK that Where No Man Has Gone Before was Kirk’s year 1 mission of the Enterprise. Unlike almost all of the other series, TOS did not start with the launch of Kirk as the Captain of the Enterprise like TNG did with Picard. Then again I suppose there is nothing to negate it either.
Fully agree. I never cared to revisit TOS and I still don’t. It’s a big reason why I was never a huge fan of the Kelvin movies and like many here I grew up with TOS. But I am simply one of those people who prefer to go forward and not backwards to relive the past over and over again. Or ‘fill in’ to stuff we didn’t know already. It just doesn’t really interest me at all.
But yes, I know there are plenty of fans who do want that, especially old TOS fans. And that’s obviously understandable. I think that’s why SNW is a nice compromise because they can at least tell new stories with some new characters, but it’s obviously becoming a TOS show as well. But at least it’s not a total TOS redux. I still think it’s ridiculous Kirk is on the show this soon but I also predicted that would happen before it even started lol. And yeah, not fond of the actor at all so far but I could be won over in time.
I really would love to see a series in between Generations and Encounter at Farpoint. Just so long as they can do it right and for the love of all that is great avoid anything defying canon like a battle with the Ferengi.
To be fair we as Trek fans are just not used to it. Look how often Bond is recast?
That being said, William Shatner, love him or hate him, is a HARD man to replace.
I think the opposite. Pretty easy to recast. Pine was plucked from obscurity and is better than Shatner.
Oh Lord I am totally not saying that!
But you have to agree, the most widespread sentiment is “go into the future, give us a new ship and a new crew” because “that’s what Star Trek is all about!”
More proof that what Star Trek is about changes over time.
Not me. I would love a new series that picks up halfway through the five-year mission
…I would actually like to see a show set after TUC and before TNG. There’s a good 80 years or so of time to fill there.
Yup. Such a wide open area to set a series. Honestly wouldn’t even mind a miniseries with Adrian Holmes as Captain April on the Enterprise.
I also LOVED the time period of Enterprise. The series didn’t do nearly enough to leverage all that era could provide in terms of compelling stories.
Think about it: no transporters, no tractor beams, no starbases, not even any interstellar allies. When they get into trouble they’re REALLY in trouble, and they only rarely explored just how terrifying that could be.
And that trouble could be anything. Struck by space debris? That’s a full-blown crisis. Running low on deuterium? That’s a crisis.
Agreed, the nearly infinite possibilities ENT could have explored were sadly squandered. A lost opportunity to make space seem really ‘huge,’ tense and dangerous. The Expanse did that really well, imo, and most of it took place reasonably close to Earth.
Despite my love of the Trek franchise my entire life, the opportunities wasted for really top-notch storytelling have sometimes been a bit vexing.
I think both VOY and ENT were so desperate to try and be TNG, they failed to leverage the drama inherent in their own unique premises. They wanted the shows to be different but were ultimately TERRIFIED of being different.
And now I totally understand why, because when they truly try to be different, the fanbase crucifies them.
“…they failed to leverage the drama inherent in their own unique premises.”
But again, that’s because the studio simply didn’t want that. That’s what Berman and Braga wanted, that’s why they wanted to start at the beginning. But the studio seemed to be worried if you had a show that didn’t involve transporters, warp drive, shields and phasers, then it’s not really Star Trek to them either and that was always the problem.
ENT was a show that was stuck between two different philosophies. One wanted a show that showed Star Trek in the 22nd century where space and tech was in its infancy while the studio wanted a new show to start in the 26th century and you can see how much push back there was from the start. It’s literally the reason the Temporal Cold War became a thing because the studio really wanted a show about the future end of the day.
And I’ll be honest, I probably preferred the 26th century idea at the tiime but now I would love to go back to the ENT era and hopefully one day we will, even if it’s just a mini-series or a movie.
Actually I should say the network, UPN specifically, not the studio. They basically just wanted more TNG shows which was ultimately the problem. I always try to be as accurate as possible when discussing this stuff.
You’re giving Braga and Berman way too much credit.
I’m only saying their original concept for the show is what people were actually saying they wanted here and a more stripped down feel for the show overall. But the network ruled it out early on because they basically wanted it another TNG clone at the end of the day.
But I’m not saying no fault lies with them of how it still ultimately came out. And I still think it was a mistake they didn’t tie the show in more to TOS from the start since clearly that’s what a lot of fans wanted (and expected at the time). I still say their biggest mistake was not tying in the Romulan war in season 3 instead of making it about the Xindi, which I liked. But to this day it’s still bizarre they didn’t just start up the Romulan war that season and really could’ve excited the fanbase. Or at the very least had the Xindi attack Earth because the Romulans manipulated the situation between them which could ultimately started the war, but I’m ranting now lol.
But I will say I didn’t have an issue of how the show was presented personally because I never really cared to see any show or movie prior to the TOS era; but accepted it a lot more today of course.
It might be hard to do a season 5 of ENT given the age of the cast now vs the age of them when the Enterprise was decommissioned. But I supposed you could do a Star Trek: Archer type series except get it right from the start this time
Definitely agreed, they would probably just have to do the show the same way they did TMP with the original cast or how they are treating the TNG cast in Picard and just acknowledge time has passed and bring them back together for a special mission or something. I know at some point Archer is the Federation President and they could tie the story in that way too.
I think most fans would be open to a time jump.
My larger point though, just to get back to the matter at hand, is that the essence of Star Trek is not immutable.
Star Trek is different things to different people, and its essence has changed with each new generation.
I want to finally explore the period between Generations and Encounter at Farpoint. Other than Yesterday’s Enterprise we practically know nothing.
I guess that’s how some feel. The only real issue I have with prequels is the much higher possibilities of canon violations. Other than that every Trek that wasn’t Voyage Home was in the future. Technically even PIC S2
Which is why it’s exciting. They did something new and different and unexpected. Trek had played it safe for over a decade, it was bold and had real potential.
Basically we have TOS, TNG and VOY currently on these shows now. It took 3 seasons but Picard has become the TNG show it probably should’ve been from the start. Most of us knew SNW would already be a quasi TOS show and that’s basically what it’s been from day one and I imagine it will only be stronger next season. PRO sounds like it will be a more direct VOY sequel next season as well, at least in spirit.
So it’s not just TOS alone, they are trying to appeal to ALL the old fans frankly, but we’ve had this conversation countless times now. And that’s fine. I think with Discovery getting the boot, it probably tells you none of these shows are guaranteed to last and you have to do everything to appeal to the subscribers you have as I also said in the past,
I don’t think they care about growing new audiences and all of that. Of course they want them, but they know end of the day the people they can rely on are the old fans who want to see characters Kirk, Janeway and Picard over and over again. Those are the people keeping these shows alive and they know it. It’s the entire reason we have Picard season 3 now. And judging by all the drooling over it, it’s working. ;)
The fact is, Star Trek was boring and stale by 2005, if not to Trekkies, than to wider audiences. So when it came back they thought they had to do something wildly different (which isn’t a bad conclusion to reach).
But I think a few things happened:
1) 90s Trek aged well, better than anyone expected, and thanks to streaming is gaining new fans (DS9 and VOY specifically)
2) They began to realize that the core DNA of those shows wasn’t the problem with attracting a bigger audience, it was execution
3) they put those together and realized that leveraging those old shows, with better execution, was a goldmine.
But this is not unique to Trek. “Everything that’s old is new again” is perennial, and if the last 20 years has taught us anything, it’s that even BAD tv shows and movies can be re-accepted with better execution.
Case in point: the Amazing Spider-Man films were REVILED by fans when released, yet Andrew Garfield’s return was celebrated in No Way Home, because it wasn’t him or the character that was the problem.
Heck, i’m starting to wonder if fans would actually cheer a Jar Jar Binks miniseries at this point…
Good points! And anyone who tells us that P+ doesn’t care about growing the audience beyond the core fans…well, LMFAO – that person might as well start up a Camp Lejeune mineral water franchise — that’ how dumbass that conjecture is.
It’s worth remembering that Trek didn’t find its way to streaming until 2010 when TNG went on Netflix, which was well after Paramount had decided to reboot the franchise as an action film series. The popularity of the 90s shows on Netflix and Amazon throughout the 2010s probably didn’t become clearly evident until after plans had been made on Discovery.
Which, now that I think about it, could explain why they tried to keep overhauling that show…
I didn’t say that genius, I said they WANT to grow the audience, but it’s easier said than done and because of that its no longer a big priority, hence why every show that has come out AFTER Discovery and especially Picard season 3 has proven. DIS was made for a new audience. Everything after that show however just became a big callback to everything that came before to attract the old ones. Yes Prodigy is a little different but it’s clearly made to get the old fans on board like the new ones. In fact, it’s probably the best example of trying to attract both sides equally.
And we wouldn’t have over 60 legacy characters showing up in just the last five years alone with three of them now leading ‘new’ shows if the priority was on new fans and not old ones. In fact, PIC, SNW and PRO are only becoming more entrenched with legacy characters, not less to satisfy old fans.
And if you don’t want me to respond to you, stop with the silly BS of responding to me via a proxy while insulting me at the same time as you just did here. It’s so childish and desperate. You’re so annoying.
Yeah I agree with all of this 100%. Everything old IS new again and obviously you can just say that about Star Trek itself. But that’s more proof that the old fanbase, especially people who became fans of Trek in the 90s has had a huge influence on these new shows and why three out of five of them take place in the TNG era.
There was a time some people were convinced the TNG era was ‘dead’ never to be seen again just like ironically people thought the ‘prequel’ era of Star Wars was now dead. And now both of those eras are back in a big way because the people who grew up with them and loved them never went away either.
And it’s why I’m convinced that Discovery will be hailed as great Trek in due time. Even I who dislikes it may revisit it in a few years and become more fond of it.
It happened that way with Enterprise. Was never really a fan of it until it was on Netflix, and was able to binge it much more casually.
I been saying that since literally the first season of the show when I was far less a fan of it myself. Yeah, these shows have a way of creating nostalgia after a certain time and probably will be looked at differently in a decade or two. And yes, like Enterprise it will also watched by new generations of fans who will find and watch it with fresh eyes and not all the baggage old fans had with it.
Discovery is far from my favorite show but I have never counted it out either. I’ve always said it will still be an important part of the universe and have its own legacy like every Star Trek show before it even if not everyone loves it. That is the beauty of Trek today, all the classic shows seemed more loved now than when they first aired as you noted. I don’t see that being any different for these new shows if they age just as well.
Discovery is also the first show that expanded the franchise by being in the far future. I think that will be its biggest impact in time for me personally the way TNG did it for the 24th century.
And still, no Season One soundtrack release.
Yeah, frustrating. What’s so hard about releasing a soundtrack?
It’s nice a season 3 is confirmed as happening. But I think sadly next year is going to be a pretty bare year regardless with only the final season of Discovery and this show on next year, at least so far.
Yes maybe some of season 2 of Prodigy will spill over into next year or maybe not now that DIS has been pulled to air this year. And there is still no word if that show or Lower Decks is getting renewed again. But as the article stated, it’s still bizarre we haven’t gotten one official renewal news since over a year ago with two shows officially are on their way out.
But looking at the glass half full I think we will probably get a trailer on First Contact day for the second season of SNW at least. But we can also get one for LDS and maybe PRO as well. And maybe we will get word if those shows will get renewed. That would all be great news so fingers crossed.
From what i’m seeing it could look like this:
Early 2023: Picard
Mid 2023: SNW & LDS
Late 2023: Prodigy S2 part 1
TOTAL FOR 2023: 20 live action eps, 20 animated
Early 2024: Discovery
Mid 2024: SNW (possibly LDS?)
Late 2024: Prodigy S2 part 2
20 Live action, minimum 10 animated
I lso think there’s a slim possibility that a Picard spin-off goes into production late this year, for a late 2024 release that loops into early 2025. I think the plan for the time being will be 2 live action shows and 1 animated (possibly 2, if LDS continues).
The question is how long this “cutback” lasts, because as SNW heads into a fourth season, it will have been almost three years since they announced cutbacks. Maybe by 2026, they’ll go back to 3 live action shows.
Yeah I can agree with all of this. 2024 will mostly depend what happens to the animated shows, if LDS will get a fifth season and if Prodigy second half will be withheld which seems feasible given that’s what they did in season one.
The biggest question is what will replace Picard, if anything. That’s what most people want to know for obvious reasons. And yeah, either way it probably won’t happen until 2025 the soonest. If we can have two live action shows, SNW and a PIC spin off and hopefully keep the animated shows, that would be the best situation, given how popular these shows are in the fanbase WHEN you include Picard season 3. ;)
It would actually be great if they announced a new show on First Contact day itself but yeah I don’t see that happening at all.
A 2025 release for a PIC spinoff makes perfect sense. Because then it would be, like I said:
2025: SNW/PIC SO.
Yeah I hope so. At the very least it would be nice to have two live action shows continue. Funny that’s all we got in the 90s and we liked it too lol!
Two live action shows is only 20 episodes a year.
Knowing that short seasons are streaming reality doesn’t make up for the gaps. Great animated series do though. Another season or two order for LDS and PRO would settle many anxieties.
Last, I think some kind of Yeoh S31 vehicle is happening. No matter what naysayers here may find challenging to believe.
What is the question. I suspect it could be early 2025 – direct to streaming movie, limited series or few season series.
Yeah also true, there is definitely a limit on today’s shows. I was watching a review of episode 5 of Picard a few days ago and one of the hosts mentioned how depressing it is the season is already half-way over after just five episodes when in the old days the season was barely beginning. People talk about too much ‘filler’ as being discussed here, but not me, I was happy to get smaller character episodes as long as they were interesting enough but I digress.
As far as S31, no offense, it has nothing to do with the ‘naysayers’, either green light a show or don’t lol. It’s been over 4 years and now even Michelle Yeoh is questioning if a show will happen? They sort of put that on themselves and it doesn’t help when the showrunners they hired to make the show left to run another show completely. You can’t exactly blame people for questioning it. It’s become as bad as the next movie.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare what’s happening with the movie with S31.The movie side is a giant mess, Paramount even announced a release date without the actors even knowing they would star in it.
For S31, we just had an announcement from Secret Hideout that a S31 show is in development. Yes, it was announced 4 years ago, but a SH announcement has zero weight compared to a Paramount announcement. Because Paramount is the one that needs to greenlight a show, after SH has developed it. SH can develop 10 different shows, and Paramount can pick up all or none of them.
Maybe the original planned showrunners’ concept wasn’t that great and they didn’t want to waste the opportunity. Maybe they wanted to see how Worf and Raffi’s arc is received in order to add them in the S31 concept.
It was smart of them to not specify where Yeoh’s character ended up after entering the Guardian. If PIC didn’t work, SNW adjacent show would’ve definitely been considered.
My bet is that S31 is definitely happening, and we would get an announcement no later than this years Comic Con.
Again how is that different from the movies? According to Paramount, Star Trek 14 is also still in development. The movie has actively been in development since 2016. They cancelled projects, but only to come up with a new one six months later, which is probably what they will do once again in another six months lol. It’s just a question will it be the Kelvin cast or (hopefully) something new? And I’m 100% certain we will get another movie…some day. It’s just a matter of when and in what form, but one will happen at some point.
You can say that for S31 and it will get made. And yeah I’m more than certain they have changed course of what it was going to originally be. I’m sure, like the movies, someone still really really wants to do it. But until someone just says ‘we are officially making it and we start shooting it on this date’ (which ironically was said about the last movie lol), nothing is guaranteed.
It seems to be in the same development hell as the movies are. It doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but it’s obviously not a guarantee until the thing actually gets made like every production out there.
Perfect example, Rian Johnson has been telling us since 2017 they are still developing his Star Wars trilogy and reiterated that again just a few months ago. Obviously someone wants it to happen if they keep saying it; but once you get past a certain number of years, it then becomes put up or shut up time to a lot of fans out there, Star Trek or otherwise.
Oh, it’s very different. SH is hired by Paramount to develop projects, some will be green lighted some no. And we only heard an S31 show as a possibility from SH, not from Paramount (if I remember correctly)
If Paramount greenlighted the show, announced it’s coming out in 2024 and we see no movement, actors are not contracted, locations booked and so on, than it’s the same situation like the movies.
This is very different. When SH says we are developing XYZ means a little bit more than brainstorming ideas and evaluating potentials, not much more than that. But when Paramount says the same thing, than it’s a completely different ball game, which is what happened with the movies.
Look at it this way. I run a board game publishing company. What we do is hire designers to create games based on our pitch. We sign contracts, pay them for the service and so on. If I don’t add NDAs to that contract they are free to say that they are developing a project for my company. But that doesn’t mean the game will be published, it might not be a good game.
But if I (as the company) announce the game with a release date, than it’s a completely different situation. Our fans should hold us to that.
The issue here is that SH decided to talk what they are developing for Paramount. Was it smart? Not sure, maybe they wanted to say what they were working on so they can see reactions from the fans, because it’s a very risky project. The reaction was negative at that time and it’s no wonder that Paramount hasn’t made a move on it.
Now, I feel like the tide is turning among fans for that project and we’ll probably hear definitive news soon.
Again, it’s a very different situation between the movies and S31.
The movie was announced from the CLIENT with a release date.
The show is said to be in development by the CONTRACTOR.
Again, they DID all of that back in 2019. Kurtzman said at the time in multiple interviews including here on TM that S31 was set to start shooting after Discovery’s third season and expected the show to be on the air sometime in 2021 or 2022, but they were still just working on the concept at the time. Then later on, he confirmed they now had a writer’s room with the showrunners in place who had already written the first episode and was still saying they expected to start shooting the show once DIS third season was finished sometime in early 2020 for a 2021 or 2022 premiere.
In fact, this was the constant drumbeat for an entire year he repeated over and over again. It’s amazing how fast people forget this stuff lol.
So yes, this show was a lot farther along then what you’re suggesting here. Just like the movies, there was a direct plan in place, scripts were being written and Kurtzman said multiple times he expected the show to premiere in either 2021 or 2022 the latest. Kurtzman wouldn’t have said any of that so publicly if he had doubts the show would even be green lit at the time.
Now it’s funny how they have literally de-evolved the development of this show lol. Four years ago, there was REAL progress with showrunners, a writers room and yes, an actual start date with a premiere date in mind. Now, none of that seems to exist because oddly they talk about it today as if it’s 2018, which is when they originally came up with the show. The showrunners left and since they never have once mentioned the scripts they originally wrote for it since, my guess that was all scrapped as well, which is why I think they have completely course corrected with a different idea today.
Sorry, it sounds exactly like the movies since they once pretended things were really progressing and the show was going to be start production soon until it didn’t.
So again, there are only ‘naysayers’ for this reason. This is the only point I was making, right? When you go from ‘yeah. we’re going to start production in a year’ to four years later the new talking point is ‘we are still working on it’ sounds like a major step backwards.
I rarely say anything about myself personally, but I used to work in PR for 15 years and why it’s soooo easy to spot the BS because I shoveled a lot of it lol. Now I never worked anywhere on this level, not even close, it was for smaller non-media related companies. But it’s all the same thing at the end of the day. They clearly pivoted for a reason because at the time, it was obvious they believed the show was gearing up for production until a snag hit somewhere just like the movies have and multiple times in their case.
The most obvious ‘snag’ was SNW. Again, go to Kurtzman’s interviews at the time, SNW wasn’t even in his periphery. Yes, the FANS was talking about the idea of a Pike show and I’m certain it was being discussed inside the SH offices, but it wasn’t part of the plan for Paramount+ at the time either. But yes, they listened to the fans and slowly the discussions started to shift once Kurtzman started to hint about a Pike show coming. They were still mentioning S31 but not on the level they were just 6 months prior.
But once SNW got announced, all discussion of S31 just basically died after that. There was no movement at all. All the talk about the ‘writers room’ and ‘starting production’ soon had been wiped away. Again, what’s funny is they have never, not once since, has explained why the show ever went into production as they were predicting. They just stopped bringing it up lol. There was zero announcements the showrunners even left the project. I guess for the movies, it’s harder to ignore the fact the director that’s been working for a year moved on to a bigger higher profile job so they knew at some point they had to mention it in Shakman’s case. But again, that’s one of the biggest communication moves, just pretend like no one ever said anything and people will just (hopefully) forget all of things they were saying in multiple places for a year.
And yes, as shown, sometimes it actually works lol. But because it’s the internet, nothing ever truly dies anymore either, the one thing Hollywood and Washington D.C. probably regrets. ;)
When I mentioned little more than brainstorming that is why I meant. Appointing potential showrunner, writing the bible and probably the pilot episode.
I don’t remember I ever read they were floating around dates for start of filming or which year the show might come out. But, I admit there may have been such interviews and if so, than yes, you can say the situation is similar with what’s happening with the movie and I do apologize for claiming otherwise.
As for the PR. You clearly have more experience, my work experience (in that industry) is half than yours, and I don’t see it that bad as you minding what’s at stake.
Paramount and Secret Hideout have been announcing/hinting/developing (if I count correctly) 4 named projects that we haven’t seen yet.
ST4, S31, Academy, Nick Meyer’s Khan mini series. You know what are the similarities for these projects besides that they are all stuck in development hell? No one was excited to see them. The reception for those announcements was from outright refusal and resentment to indifference.
So where you see bad PR, I see PR used as a tool to avoid making strategic mistakes that would have ended this era of Trek.
Can you imagine if DIS, Khan, S31, Tilly Academy was the only Star Trek in the works back in 2019 and all headed by DIS alumni? We wouldn’t have had conversations like “oh, it’s a bummer that next year we will get 40 episodes of Star Trek instead of 50”. We probably would have discussed whether a new Star Trek show would come back in the 2030’s or the 2040’s.
As a result of their PR, the Kelvin movie is shelved for who knows how long (may be dead for good), Khan will be a Podcast, S31 is probably morphing into something that fans will be happy and Tilly Academy is not happening. Win situation for fans for getting shows that they were excited about instead of those and a win situation for Paramount for not throwing money into something that may have spectacularly failed and killed this era of the franchise.
Could they have communicated better? Definitely. They shouldn’t have doubled down on some of their statements so hard like they did with the movie, but I don’t role my eyes when some update is mentioned about these projects. Their output recently has been amazing, so I trust them they will make the right decisions.
Well so to show I’m not pulling this out of my you know what, I found an exchange, right here on TM with Kurtzman discussing the show.
What would you say is the status of the Section 31 show?
[Showrunners] Erika [Lippoldt] and Boey [Yeon Kim] are just breaking story now. And they are double-dutying between season three of Discovery and Section 31. So, we are just breaking story and the plan is to start shooting it as soon as we wrap season three.
So, you have a series order?
We don’t have a series order yet. We are just breaking story now. As soon as there is a script—usually they order a series off of a script, but everything is in place now.
So if that were to drop, would you expect in 2021 or 2022?
Yeah, what we have found on these shows is they take an enormously long time to prep and an enormously long time to post. And what we don’t want to do is rush anything. It’s not worth it. Fans will be really disappointed if they feel we are rushing them through the experience that we are making. So, I would say 2021 or ’22. Maybe ’21.
So, for 2020 to 2021 would you expect season three of Discovery, and…
You’ll have our Picard show—as yet untitled. We have Discovery season three, and hopefully Section 31.
And remember, this was in 2019. If you read that entire interview, Kurtzman was talking confidently about the Section 31 show as he was about Picard and Lower Decks. Clearly this show was being treated like all the other shows they were working on. It wasn’t being treated as a ‘what if’ type of development, they were prepping it to start production once they had wrapped Discovery’s third season as he said.
And if you notice in that same interview what show wasn’t being discussed? Either by the interviewer or Kurtzman, it was SNW. As I said, the show did not even exist at the time and Discovery season 2 was still running so it wasn’t even a real idea because for them, LDS, PIC, DIS and S31 was the future. Prodigy wouldn’t be announced until later that year.
You mentioned Khan and the Academy show, which is fair, but unlike S31, they never had a writer’s room or a start date of any kind. We know Meyer wrote a draft of the first script but I don’t think it ever got beyond that. Same with the Academy show. It sounded like they pitched the idea and maybe wrote a script, but that’s it AFAIK.
But you don’t develop a writer’s room unless you think a show is happening. Writers and producers pitch shows or write pilot scripts all the time, it’s usually not until someone picks it up they hire other writers and begin writing scripts for it. S31 was clearly much farther along.
And I’m not saying any of this is a big deal. It’s just a TV show, as you said, they come and go all the time, no biggie. We’re just obsessed Trekkies so it’s a little different for us lol. I’m not saying they did anything wrong, but judging how they were talking about the show pre-SNW and post-SNW, clearly the projectory changed, certainly how they communicated the show. How and why we can only speculate obviously.
And no, I don’t buy the BS about Yeoh’s schedule because A. not once, has anyone stated that’s why the show was delayed and B. I’m pretty sure Kurtzman wouldn’t have been so specific saying when they planned to shoot the show, for an entire year, if no one bothered to ask their main star if she was going to be around to shoot it.
Again, this is what drives me up the wall about the internet lol. No one at any point in the production, including Yeoh herself said the show was delayed because she was soooo busy, it just became this talking point (ie, spin ;)) online even when you ignore the fact the woman had no problem working on Discovery for three straight seasons prior to that. Now she’s given the first time to star in a big western show as the lead and she doesn’t have time lol.
Now yes, they can still make the show. I been very clear on that. But yeah people have a VALID reason to question it at this point. I mean it would be strange if people didn’t considering lol.
And I no longer work in PR, changed careers long ago although it helped me jump into what I do today. But it’s a reason why I try VERY hard to be accurate and I don’t make crap up, even on something like a fan message board. When I say something, I back it up 100% of the time. If I can’t, then I don’t say it, period or I make clear I’m solely just speculating. Because that was my job and if I didn’t and someone caught it…then that was probably my last job lol.
“Only” 20 episodes per year. That’s pretty solid if you ask me. Throw in 10+ more animated episodes, and it’s a decent slate.
I do agree on a Yeoh S31 series, the problem now will be scheduling, as she’s more in demand than ever now.
Luckily the animated shows are probably way cheaper than the Live action ones and still pull in an audience so they are a lot less likely to get pulled. SNW with a 99% on Rotten Tomatoes I think is safe for now too. After that, I think all bets are off.
I pray this is right
Everything is all about PIC right now. Official announcements will probably come on First Contact Day.
And rightly so. Last year, the excitement surrounding LD & SNW overwhelmed Picard Season 2 and Discovery 4. I think the reason that they are taking their time is that Picard Season 3 has all the excitement and instead of doubling down on it now, I think they want to let this play out, maybe past the finale, and then announce the release of SNW Season 2.– except April 5 makes a lot of sense. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t stagger the Titan/Shaw announcement – they have already teased it as next next generation.
And hopefully all of that will be true! And no one wants a Picard spin off more than me (well OK, I guess that’s hard to prove lol, but I really want one).
Yes there are going to be a lot of empty weeks in 2023 and moving on with no new Trek and that makes me sad. You know me and you know I am not sorry to see DISCO go but I am sad that I am placing my bets that the show will not be replaced with a new Trek show. Ditto with Picard.
To be fair, from 1987-2001 there were technically 24 weeks a year without new Trek. From 1987-1993 and 2001-2005 only about 25 episodes a year. We’ve just been spoiled recently.
I totally agree we’ve been spoiled. But I like being spoiled LOL
My only gripe with SNW is that an episodic series feels especially short and unproductive with only 10 episodes a year.
I would totally prefer more eps a year but I really want them to stay episodic.
Super stoked about this news. I’m currently binging TOS right now and will then transition to the animated series, movies and other shows. The one question I have is:
When will the TOS/TNG movies get off HBO MAX and go back to Paramount+?
That’s crazy right? It doesn’t bother me much since I have HBOMax as part of my ATT deal.
I was wondering the same last night. Theoretically it wasn’t that long ago they arrived on HBO, so it could be a while longer…I have HBOMax as well, but still.
I think streaming is still figuring out how to move content around in this age of Streaming 2.0, where everyone has their own service. The thought initially was to keep all your own content exclusive, but I think the thinking now is that may be too silo’d.
By licensing out some content here and there to other services, you attract new audiences to your brands.
I can’t wait, I’m so looking forward to season 2, especially the crossover with Lower Decks. I’m gonna miss Hemmer a lot though.
The LDS crossover is the biggest reason why I’m excited too! 😁
I think that’s what a lot of fans are excited about. It’s going to be so much fun to see Mariner on the bridge of the Enterprise conversing with Spock and Pike.
Yeah Hemmer dying was a bummer. Maybe he’ll meet the great Koala, climb black mountain and make it back in season 3 though?
I’m looking forward to Boims being there as much as I am Mariner. Maybe more so. Boimler is cute.
😂 I hope Hemmer comes back like that, that’d be hilarious. I’d just love to see Hemmer again in general. (Look I have a type when it comes to my Trek crushes, or maybe a few types, and Hemmer meets at least one of them.)
Knowing how many deleted scenes there are from the Gorn episode where he sacrificed himself, I’m now very motivated to get the DVD set.
Meh, sick of prequels. Especially weird visually rebooted prequels that just aren’t needed. We have proper 25th century Trek now.
Time to move on with a new crew/show and that show is STAR TREK: TITAN.
Ah the old “move forward” routine, as if a date on a calendar is the only way to that. So close-minded and unimaginative. Frankly, I think the Trek prequels, conceptually, have the most untapped potential to truly move the franchise forward. Give me more SNW, please!
It’s great that you’re enthusiastic about a Titan show. Count me in too.
But there’s room for different shows to fit different audiences within Trek fandom.
There’s a lot of folks here who are TOS fans that love SNW, and many new fans for whom SNW is a fantastic entryway into the franchise without having to watch hundreds of hours of classic series and movies.
And then there’s some of us like me who love SNW and Picard season three and want both Titan and SNW.
I thought Ortegas’ hairstyle couldn’t get any worse. I was wrong. Horrible.
Why does it bother you so much?
The things people will pick to crow about lol. It never ends.
I know! People are actually complaining about people complaining.
Yeesh, that’s worse than complaining about the people complaining about complaining! What has this world come too…
Yah I know I shot myself on the foot on that one.
Don’t beat yourself up about it. Happens to the best of us.
Why is a complaint about a haircut a complaint about the show? Love the show, love Ortegas, I think it’s a bad haircut too.
A haircut is a haircut. Who really cares.
Can’t wait for season 2!!! I absolutely loved season 1. It was so bright and colorful!
Love this site. But when you see a centerfold publicity shot of the main characters and a large title that says “Star Trek Strange New Worlds: Then a title that starts with Star Trek Strange New Worlds premiere date….” you instantly think it has been announced.
Im not saying to not report this . But maybe include it as a mish-mash news of the day type article.