‘Star Trek: Picard’ Vadic Boss Theory Update: New Clip Offers Intriguing Clues

Episode 6 from the third season of Star Trek: Picard is still fresh after going live on Paramount+ Thursday, but there is a new clip from next week’s show that is quite intriuging. Obviously… SPOILERS.

Vadic’s Boss returns

The fourth episode (“No Win Scenario“) revealed that the season’s main villain Vadic (Amanda Plummer) was working for a mysterious character she communicated with using some form of special Changeling technology. Credited just as “The Face,” this character appeared as a floating skull-like creature, and it wasn’t really clear who or what he was. After that episode, TrekMovie explored a number of possible theories about Vadic’s boss.

A brand new clip for next week’s episode shows this character returning and offers a bit of clarity. You can watch it below via the brand-new episode of The Ready Room. (Clip starts at 32:40.)

Looks like Vadic’s boss is not a Changeling

Vadic and her crew have been confirmed (by showrunner Terry Matalas) to be Changelings, part of a rogue terrorist group not part of the Founders in the Great Link, and motivated by revenge following the Dominion War. Changelings are notoriously xenophobic with a disdain for “solids.” As noted in that earlier analysis, it seemed quite possible (if not likely) they weren’t working for anyone else. However, the above clip makes it almost certain that Vadic’s boss is not a Changeling. When she informs “The Face” she isn’t getting anywhere with her prisoners (presumably Riker and Troi), he does something that causes her to start losing shape, noting, “Your physiology is not as special or complex as you believe. You are by nature, malleable, made to bend.”

The Face returns in episode 7

As he causes Vadic more physical distress, he threatens her with “We must have the boy or you and your kind will find your own existence meaningless.” The clip ends with Vadic looking terrified. All this is a clear indication that “The Face” is not of the same “kind” (and therefore doesn’t have the same physiology) as Vadic and her group of Changelings, and he has some kind of power over her. Ready Room host Wil Wheaton reacted to this reveal after the clip by saying, “Vadic is so scary I cannot even imagine what the thing she’s afraid of is.”

The Face shows Vadic who is the boss

But what is he… and what does he want?

His manipulation of her also hints at what looks like the effects of Section 31’s mutagenic virus used on the Changelings during the Dominion War. The Great Link was cured by Odo, ending the war, but Vadic’s group has been said to be separate from the Great Link. It’s plausible that The Face is controlling Vadic’s group through some kind of conditional cure, one that he apparently can take away. It still isn’t clear who Vadic and her Changelings are working for or why they want to capture Jack so badly. Earlier this month, TrekMovie offered a few options. There are a number of plausible theories, and the latest episode may offer more clues pointing to one of the top candidates.

Again with the Borg?

It’s noteworthy that The Face talks never uses the first person singular “I,” and always uses “we,” which is something often associated with the Borg collective. He ended his threats to her by saying, “You and your kind will find your own resistance meaningless,” which sounds a lot like the Borg’s classic threat: “resistance is futile.” His talk about Changeling physiology fits with the fact that the Borg have built a vast catalog of the galaxy’s species and their various attributes. Episode 6 also revealed the Changelings stole Jean-Luc Picard’s corpse from Daystrom. One thing that makes Picard unique is that he is a former Borg, a fact made very clear by Captain Shaw multiple times during the season. The image of Picard’s corpse at the end of the episode had a shadow over his face that was reminiscent of how he appeared when he was Locutus of Borg. It’s unclear why they also want Jack, but it could be due to him having an ex-Borg for a father, something potentially unique. And maybe they want to bring back Locutus in some way as part of their Frontier Day attack.

Is this a clue why they wanted Jean-Luc’s corpse?

… or maybe something else, like Section 31?

None of this is definitive yet beyond the fact that Vadic is working for someone who isn’t a Changeling. Our previous theory article had lots of other candidates and none have been completely ruled out yet, including Remans, Future Guy, Lore, and even Armus. Section 31 (or some rogue operation within the rogue operation) is still a good possibility as they have been mentioned a lot, and it’s possible they wanted to get the Picard corpse back from Starfleet to help with creating a false flag attack on Frontier Day. Of course, there are other possibilities, maybe even something entirely new. We have four more episodes to find out.

Picard streams exclusively on Paramount+ in the Americas, Europe, the Caribbean and South Korea. It also streams internationally on Amazon Prime Video in more than 200 countries and territories. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.

Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com

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I honestly think that they were cured by Odo and then they broke off and created more changelings to raise as part of their rogue group. Which if I’m right means that they’re still doing their same bs but to themselves this time, which is not great.

I still half jokingly think that maybe they’re being led by Vorta or Jem’Hadar who have no intention of letting them succeed and are just looking for revenge for the way that they both as species had been treated before. This clip both does and doesn’t rule out that theory because after all, who would know the Founders better than those two species.

Like I said here before though. I do and don’t feel sorry for Vadic and her group here. The way she was being talked to was horrible but 🤷 it’s pretty much how they treated their two underling species, they’re just getting a taste of their own medicine.

I’ve been saying since day one that The Face is a Jem’Hadar. I think they got the upper hand, so to speak.


Maybe the Changelings plan on pulling a Weekend at Bernie’s with Picard’s body to get through their muddle detectors.

So much about that comment is perfect. Love.

Ha! Excellent. Hopefully with a hairpiece and fake mustache, too –

I just laughed so hard over this and it’s been a tough day for me, so thank you!

Agreed, perfect comment.

Not the so-called Future Guy, who was manipulating the 22nd Century Suliban. But some other faction player in the Temporal Cold War.

Leaving open the possibility of yet another popping up in Strange New Worlds’ 23rd, setting up a huge centuries spanning crossover event.

Could this have something to do with that MCU-seeming thing that was trying to invade at the end of Picard season 1? Or is that best forgotten (I had forgotten about it completely till just now.)

I honestly wouldn’t mind something like that. I’ve said for years, one of the biggest missed opportunities during the ’90s was not crossing the shows over more. I know, VOY was in the DQ, and TNG was off the air, but there should have been a couple of stories that united all three crews. Heck, a full on crossover on Enterprise, with a time-displaced crew from the 24th century should have been done.

Worf may have studied more on Boreth than meditation and Kahless’ technique to slow his heart rate.

Does anyone think it’s coincidence that he’s spent so much time in spiritual self development on the planet of origin for both Voyager’s and Discovery’s time crystals?

That would actually be incredible, that this is really about the TCW and this faction is now using actual enemies of the Federation as proxies to do their bidding in multiple time periods. I think that’s a brilliant idea and would even set up the Section 31 show nicely as being Temporal Agents who has to stop them if they are going the time travel direction with that show.

No matter your personal feelings of the TCW story line, it really is the perfect tie in to bring all the various shows and time periods together. They even tied it to the Kelvin universe thanks to Discovery in season 3, so they can go as big as they want with it.

Also this whole thing with “The Face” feels way too Star Wars and not in a good way. That’s probably just me though.

Come now, let us not over-idealize Star Trek and pretend that things like Pah-wraiths are akin to Arthur C. Clarke.

I never was gonna say that. Yes Trek has influence from other sci-fi/fant series, I enjoyed the Star Wars influences on DS9. However those were in ways that still felt like Trek. This doesn’t really feel that Trek to me and that’s just me. I’m allowed to feel this way.

You’re perfectly justified on this, and I agree with you 100%.

And I’ll also add that for me Vadic is a two-dimensional baddie that is one of the disappointments of the season for me.

But don’t get me wrong, I’m still enjoying this season, and it’s much better than season 2. It’s not up there though with strange new worlds or the first two seasons of Discovery, but it’s vastly better than lower decks.

I do agree with you on Vadic as well. The moment she was a Founder, I lost all interest in her. There really doesn’t seem to be more to her yet either which is just not helping the season, I agree.

I like the animated shows the best out of new Trek so far but yes, this is by far the best season of PIC. It’s still pretty low on my list right now however but that’s because I could never get into TNG and I don’t like Picard as a character.

Frakes really dialed back Plummer’s performance in the two episodes he directed and Vadic was the better for it.

That’s an interesting observation, one that implied greater depth to her than may have ever been on the page.I really didn’t like Bana’a mellow American take in BEYOND,because it just seemed ecdentric for variety’s sake, but having Plummer throw some off-speed pitches in 3 & 4 really did help keep my interest for awhile at least.

Not sure what you mean. Bana wasn’t in BEYOND.

Sorry, meant 09.

I feel the same about Vadic. Amanda Plummer is such a great actor, but Vadid has been given no depth at all. She’s a typical mustache-twirler, nothing more.

This is pure speculation, but since Vadic herself is chafing under a cruel overseer, maybe, just maybe, she rebels at the very end and does something to aid Picard and the Federation side. That would make her a less 2D character, a little more worthy of an actor of Plummer’s calibre. But again, this is pure speculation, based on nothing…

‘And I’ll also add that for me Vadic is a two-dimensional baddie that is one of the disappointments of the season for me.”

If I have any disappointment regarding this season thus far, this is it.

Oh, maybe he’s a Pah-wraith and Jack is fighting a possession. But that doesn’t explain why they have Picard’s body.

The pah-wraiths were so Dungeons and Dragons, right down to the magic book of spells. The only thing that really marred DS9 towards the end for me. Just felt so out of place.

I was listening to a podcast about DS9 and someone there had an very interesting take on the pah-wraiths from a religious viewpoint and thinking about them like that makes them work for me. Of course seeing them like that doesn’t work for everyone and that’s fair.

I will say though that I really hope it’s not them.

Writer logic would suggest the Borg are involved since this is billed as the Farewell to TNG.

On the other hand, the Borg were a big part of season 2. I would think that perhaps the writers might want to go in a different direction this season, just for variety’s sake…

They were also a big part of S1…

There’s a season 1?

LOL, unfortunately yes. ;)


There’s a season 2?

yeah theyre good you should watch them.

I thought season 2 was horrible but I’m glad someone liked it.

Lots of people actually did, it may surprise you to learn that. I know the loudest and angriest voices are the ones that poke through, but… while i’ll admit few call it great, there’s a lot of fans of Seasons 1 & 2 out there if you bother to go beyond the most diehard Trek sites.

I read a theory that held the Borg assimilated some of the Founders (which would explain the odd makeup worn by Vadic’s pilots), and Picard or Jack is the key to either curing them or, on the flip side, somehow making them invincible. Sounds credible.

I hope not. I’m so so so so tired of the Borg.

Same here. And last season just made them sillier than ever.

I have been wondering if Terry Matalis put the answer right in front of us, as a “Tease” for our minds, that is so plainly in sight that we’d just miss, or, DISmiss it completely. Notice that when Vadic has the creature appear, she has to slice her ARM. (Terry, did I just give it away? Or, am I still off the mark?) Her ARM might be the key here. And that deep voice sounds very familiar…… and that they kidnapped TROI to get to Riker has me thinking I’m right. They were both terrorized by a certain deep-voiced creature in the TNG episode I’m thinking of, whch would make Picard Season 3 a sequel to that older story-line. Troi was held hostage in that episode – in a downed shuttle. Yes, I’m thinking Vadic’s ARM might mean it’s …. Armus, from TNG Season 1. Yeah, that’s what I’d call being hidden in plain sight: Vadic’s ARM means it’s “Armus.” It’s almost a cruel play on words. If that’s the answer, then it would seem he was discovered by some of the Founders during the Dominion War, and thus found his escape from the world Picard tricked him into being imprisoned on – thus his fury at Picard himself. But then, what’s the connection to Jack? Hm…… Let’s find out if I’m wrong or right in the next few episodes, shall we?

This is my guest, too. And I think it’s way cool.

Fwiw, I don’t find this theory compelling. Armus was basically a Metamucil oil slick with no personality and a meager backstory and no particular reason to want to conquer the Federation. Or so it seems to me.

Whoever this being is, they don’t come off as wanting to ‘conquer’ anything. As they stated,

“The hour of Starfleet’s fall nears.”

His personality also reminds me of Armus. Having a sludge-like entity ally with another sludge like species is a neat fit. Plus Armus had the power to manipulate things with a mere thought, something that this entity does to Vadic during their chat.

Ok, perhaps “conquer” wasn’t the best word. Wasn’t it described as the combined evil impulses of whatever species abandoned it? I don’t see why Armus would care about humiliating or bringing down the Federation. Just to do evil? Not very satisfying dramatically.

That’s a good argument against this being Armus…. and I still think it’s him, for whatever motivation he might have. Remember how outraged he was when Picard tricked him…. he said he was a “skin of evil,” making Vadic’s “SKIN” his convenance from his imprisonment to where he now rsides. So like I noted above, we’ll soon find out – and before April 2023 ends.

Fair enough. We’ll see.

I neglected to add that while Vadic cuts her “ARM” for this creature to be revealed, it’s her SKIN that appears to “become” whatever this thing is…. which harkens to the title of the TNG episode that comes to mind: “Skin of Evil.” See how that also points toward Armus as being who this might be? If I had written this, that’s the back-story I’d craft, revealing only tiny portions and details until the final reveal/revelation is shown.

This is how Q-anon started.

No doubt!

I like that theory a lot… I always wanted to link Armus to the Founders. Inter Armus Enim Silent Leges :-)

We know Yar is mentioned in this season, so that’s one way to include her. But… I am hoping the face is someone totally new. The Borg are too played out and all these other theories feel very niche, even for a season that’s brought back Moriarty.


I feel like this theory would be like the issues the writer’s had with Khan before writing Star Trek II. They wanted to bring a big bad villain back for the movie, but they didn’t have any really, so they reluctantly went with Khan. Of course it ended up working out but I really don’t think Armus is the huge villain we have been waiting for.

I agree – great theory.

I think it might be Armus because Tasha Yar is supposed to be referenced in some way, and Troi senses an “all-consuming darkness” in one of the previews, but maybe she was just complaining about the lighting of the scenes.

We just had two seasons filled with Borg. I don’t think it’s them. I feel more confidant it’s Armus — the Skin of Evil shed from an unnamed race of Titans. I think he means to reanimate Picard’s old body. I imagined him returning and ‘infecting’ one of the crew ‘way back in the late 80s when I was working on Lone-Star Trek — a fanfic zine.

I dunno. I am having trouble thinking it’s the Borg behind this. I keep thinking Laas is a ready-made renegade from the Great Link, arrogant and intolerant toward Solids, and likely unhappy with the Link “contaminated” by Odo’s pro-Federation attitude. If he got the “Founder’s Disease” from Odo and was not part of the Link to be cured, he would surely want revenge against the Federation if he somehow survived. But how he connects with the Face or why Jack is so important to him or it is beyond me. Perhaps Laas was saved or cured by someone who transformed him.

Why would any lingering Borg tech in Picard be more needed than what Seven must have? She was a kind of mouthpiece to the Federation too.

As Spock would say, “It is dangerous to speculate with insufficient data.”

P.S. And weren’t we told to expect a cameo from DS9 characters, or does Worf cover that?

Looks vaguely like Species 8472 to me. But I like the Armus theory if we are trying to stick to Next Gen roots.

I’ve seen people suggest this, but I just don’t see Species 8472 there.

I get a Hirogen vibe – could also be Vidiians. Maybe they had leveraged the Changlings to help them find a cure, only to get bit by Starfleet’s virus.

Remans want Jack, because they have Shinzon alive some how and now that Picard is a synth they can’t drain his blood to replace Shinzon’s. Jack’s blood is the next logical donor?

Remans also hate the Federation because they did nothing to help them when the Romulan system’s star went nova, thus want to attack Starfleet on Frontier day?

Your second paragraph is plausible, thanks; plus the Remans were powerful telepaths. Though would that give them power over the Changelings?

Shinzon being alive (or another Shinzon, he was a clone after all) is no worse than “somehow Palpatine returned”

Yup. What about going full bore into DS9 though? A pah wraith (usually associated with the color red) would have power to project their will onto the Changelings and would hate the Federation because of Sisko, who is now beyond their reach. The problem is why Jack? Oh, well.

Maybe its a corrupted Ben Sisko who wants revenge on Picard for Wolf 359.


Okay first: we don’t need to assign a black man evil to prop up a white man. Especially since Ben Sisko moved on from his trauma, that was kinda a major part of his arc in the series. I know you weren’t thinking about race but this is something that really really needs to be considered there. Even then all Sisko really did in Emissary was tell Picard that he doesn’t really want to be around him. Which is absolutely fair and understandable!

Second: man, this really does give the middle finger to the Bajorans, their religion, the entire series of DS9 and religious Trek fans. Especially with how Jewish that entire thing was. That would just be extremely not cool and not okay.

In the immortal word of Rom, “wow.”

You DO realize alphantrion was just making a silly joke, right?

At least one person got it :))

I’m very sorry then. It’s hard to tell what is and isn’t a joke sometimes.

To be fair, Armus was a joke at first and now it’s become a legitimate theory.

Holy shit, Mr. Serious.

I’m gonna say: Iconians

It’s always the Iconians.

I’m not sure what’s going on, but the longer they go without revealing it the more it feels to me like a big old disappointment waiting to happen. Unless Matalas has a really fluffy rabbit in his hat, I am very skeptical.

Yeah, I am skeptical at this point. Well, at least eps 1 through 4 were pretty damn awesome.

I’ve enjoyed all six. It’s just … the overarching story is beginning to reek of mystery box, and those rarely turn out well, in my experience.


When you have shows whose sole appeal is a mystery, yes, they can destroy a show. But if a show is good outside of the mystery, then it’s less an issue.

BSG is an example of a show that wasn’t about the mystery and was EXCELLENT. But later on, it really leaned on the mystery of “the plan” and stopped being all that engaging outside of that. So when the resolution left a lot to be desired, it suffered.

In the case of this season of Picard, it’s been so good that even if the ending isn’t as compelling as i’d like, it won’t be that much of a disappointment. That’s where its 10 episode run is a positive. If this were a 5-season series that carried the mystery of Jack and the Changelings across 50+ episodes, then yes, it might ruin it.

Yeah that’s certainly true, especially if you been disappointed with the other seasons obviously because they all relied on mystery boxes, Discovery being the worst culprit with that IMO only.

That said, the people I have watched who has seen the entire season has said it all ends in a really satisfying way and most of them h-a-t-e-d the first two seasons of the show. Again, it doesn’t mean everyone including us will agree with them, but I will say if you are still really enjoying it as it looks like most people are (and the last episode feel like it was the most popular so far), then I have faith it will at least have a decent ending if not a spectacular one.

The problem with the first two seasons of Picard was that not only did they end badly but they didn’t fully wrap up their stories or just gave very vague connections to all the things they set up frustrating the viewers. Who set up the big space-time hole at the beginning of season 2 and the entire reason the Borg even showed up in the first place? Or why? Fuck if anyone knows but yeah it’s there.

Again, according to people who seen it all, no one will have those frustrations at least. And anyone who has seen 12 Monkeys that had multiple mystery boxes coming out of the wazoo proves Matalas knows what he is doing at least. That show didn’t turn into LOST for that reason.

I did like what I saw of 12 Monkeys — I should go back and rewatch/finish that eventually.

Even if the resolution to this season turns out to be weak, if the individual episodes continue to be this good, then that’s a good season of Trek. I can’t say that about the first two seasons of “Picard” at all, even though there are individual episodes I like. The same is arguably true of “Discovery,” absolutely; although with that one, I do genuinely love season four from beginning to end. I thought that mystery box was structured and executed very admirably. So I’m hoping this season of “Picard” ends up hitting me the same way; and who knows, maybe even better.

Yes I will definitely say even if you end up being disappointed with the season, still finish 12 Monkeys. You will be among it’s new dozens of fans I assure you!

And yeah I agree, if the episodes themselves remain good, then I think most people will take that as a win, but yes most will still determine how much they like it by how well it wraps up. That’s just human nature.

And I don’t want to trigger anyone, so please note I’m going to say something negative on Discovery and Picard. You have been warned lol. But yes, that’s ultimately the issues with those two shows and I highlight Discovery especially because seasons 2-4 all landed on the big R-E-V-E-A-L of the season story line. Everything rested on who was the Red Angel or what caused the Burn. And when those reveals disappointed people in a big way then it just side tracked everything else, even if you loved a lot of the episodes leading up to them which I honestly did. And the other issue is they literally waited until the very end of the season to reveal them and after all that build up, it fell harder if you didn’t like it. So you’re absolutely right, that is the big danger to these mystery box stories, especially how DIS did it.

Now season 4, I will say they did it a little better and we didn’t have to wait until episode 11 to know who caused the dark matter anomaly or the DMA. We got that in episode 5 IIRC being Species 10c.And I will also say they actually wrapped it up very well too. Now I still had a ton of problems with the season as you know, but it was structured a little better for sure.

And Bryant I know I’ve said this to you many times, but I still think it’s hilarious how much you loved season 4. Not in a bad way but in a very positive one. Because while people seem to think I want the show to burn, you spent 3 seasons saying exactly that lol. So I’m truly happy it turned around for you like it did. Unfortunately I feel the opposite but that’s life my friend! I’m truly happy you like the show more today.

But getting back on topic, I think that’s why season 3 of Picard is also different, they introduce a big story plot, but they answer it a few episodes later. We didn’t have to wait until episode 8 to know the Changelings are trying to take over the Federation. We found out what the big secret weapon was in episode 6 and not episode 9. And yes, I suspect we’ll know what they want to do with it by the next episode or episode 8.

That’s how 12 Monkeys played out as well. They set up a ton of mystery boxes but they didn’t leave them lingering for 3 seasons either. They will tease you with a mystery but it was usually revealed by the end of the season and then set up something big for the next one. That was the biggest issue with shows like LOST. No spoilers, but there is no big guy waiting from behind the curtain in the last episode of 12 Monkeys; instead the show is always revealing its mysteries along the way and you don’t feel frustrated waiting and waiting and waiting like so many of these serial shows do and what became their downfall when the pay off wasn’t that great.

It’s also why I do have more faith in season 3 of Picard, especially because by episode 6 of the first two seasons I was getting very cynical. But in this case, I’ve loved every episode more than the last one so far, so that bares well IMO.

My spouse lobed episode six, and I found it worked better for me on rewatch.

I’m losing interest in the mystery though.

I’ve said already that I felt the direction by Liu was off for the past two episodes. We’ll have to see how the next to go. Giving directors blocks of episodes is efficient but risky.

Really, I’m just happy that my spouse is enjoying this season enough to actually watch it first time through with me on Thursdays more often than not.

I’ve got the perfect solution to take on Vadic and her masters…modify photon torpedo’s to explode Clearasil, which will do wonder to improve their lives and eliminate the conflict, because good facial skin = happy aliens! I mean, if I had those awful complexion issues, I’d want to kill the galaxy as well.

Section 31 is more likely than the Borg:

  • JLP’s body is in S31 hands,
  • S31 operative would talk in plural (as in – we: the Section)
  • use of the S31 virus
  • leading to the S31 series
  • since there is no hope for a DS9 series* due to Avery Brooks having apparently closed the book on Star Trek, what greater enemy would Picard take on than S31, after dealing with Romulans and the Borg (two major enemies from TNG)? The Ferengi? ;)

(*) regarding DS9 series – I’m starting to think that perhaps this season (which, we have to keep in mind, wasn’t planned to happen initially) is a repurposed DS9 project, that everyone considered dead. I’d guess they would have kicked different ideas around with Kurtzman, and legacy projects among them. I would say it is likely at least that this is one of the unused projects. Perhaps Riker is O’Brien – in that he’s the married (with kids one), and then Picard could be Bashir – how fun would be to see them galavanting across space on a crazy adventure like that, and facing Changelings and Section 31. On the way they would pick up Worf, maybe paired with Quark (hence easier access to that Ferengi criminal) in absence of Odo.

No I think there could be a DS9 series without Avery Brooks. It would stink not having him but you can just manage it without him like you can with Odo and Nog.

I agree.

There are many ways this could be done. I liked the DS9 Relaunch novels that took things forward and they did not include every character, and reintroduced others like Ro. Wouldn’t suggest them as the way, just saying they worked for me.

In fact, there’s a clickbait site saying there’s rumour of a Star Trek: Dominion show focusing on the war.

It could be interesting to see that period from another angle even if some of our favourite legacy characters won’t be represented.

I would love a Dominion show. But I wouldn’t believe that it was happening for a minute.

Section 31 has nothing whatsoever to do with Jean-Luc Picard. This will be someone who has a pre-established connection to the character, presumably via either TNG or the movies. Maybe Locutus got the Queen pregnant between seasons three and four and this is Locutus Jr. coming back for vengeance.

Something like that. Hopefully way less stupid.

I was going to comment, but then realized I didn’t need to after reading your last sentence.

Personally I think they could recast Sisko if Brooks isn’t willing to return. They could even make it younger with the plot of Sisko being a time displaced figure as an ascended being (SG-1 reference)

They *could* do that, absolutely. But I think they’d assume that most DS9 fans would view that as a slap in the face, and steer well clear of it. Sisko’s story is done as is. Why reopen that can and find nothing but worms inside it?

The irony about your post is I just watched a YouTube video that theorized the complete opposite and that Section 31 are the heroes of the season.

Yeah, that sounds very far fetched to me too lol, but their take is that Worf, Ro and Raffi are working for Section 31 (even if they don’t really know it) and that because S31 is technically on the outside of the Federation, the Changelings haven’t affected them. You can’t affect an organization if you don’t know whose actually in it unlike Starfleet and the Federation. And that’s their advantage to both staying hidden and to stop them.

Again, I don’t know how much I buy this either but it actually would make logical sense. And the author was suggesting this was done for the upcoming Section 31 show to put them in a ‘better’ light than they obviously gotten in the past by actually being the true heroes of the story for once. And it would also prove why it’s sometimes necessary to have an organization like them outside the chain of command or with their own autonomy. Again, doubtful, but would be clever if true.

As far as your point about the season being some unused DS9 project, no that’s not true at all. Matalas said it was his idea alone and then other writers came later and just helped him fleshed it out. Matalas is just a huge fanboy of the 24th century shows and has said he wanted to incorporate something from all of them to tie the universe in better, which fans been wanting for ages now.

It’s a big reason why there is such outcry for ‘Terry Trek’ right now because he seems to not only understand Star Trek on a huge level, he wants to leverage all of it as much as he can the same way Mike McMahan has also done in LDS as well, but in this case as a live action show and not a comedy.

I know this is off topic…, but I already see it coming in the last episode…., Picard dies.
That’s how you wrap up a series…., Kirk style.

Zero percent chance.

Bridge on Picard?

I think Patrick Stewart has suggested he could still be interested in playing Picard under the right conditions, so I don’t think Picard dies here.

That’s a fair point 331dot.

I’ve been feeling that Patrick Stewart has been somewhat spoiling the end of the season and three-season show by suggesting he would continue if there’s fan demand.

I had thought that Picard’s death would be the natural end of the show.

With Jack having Imrodic Syndrome, it would seem likely for Picard to sacrifice his remaining years to enable his synth body to be repurposed for his son. It would be a fitting end to a life of service and personal sacrifice to Starfleet to finally put his genetic family first.

It doesn’t seem likely though.

I don’t really understand this because, again, they killed off Picard in the first season. Do you we really need them to do it again two seasons later?

And I just never believed any one would want to kill him off for good when there are possible movies and spin offs on the table; even if he just shows up in a cameo or something. And this is not the franchise that goes out of its way to kill its iconic characters. They’ve only done it three times in 50 years with Spock, Kirk and Data and they only did it with Spock and Data because the actors wanted out….and they both showed up again anyway lol.

Kirk is really the only major character who was killed off and (miraculously) has stayed dead.

That way he would match Data, at two deaths each…

I think they are the creatures from the end of season 1, pushed back through the portal that Soji/Asha closed, but they are the real threat mentioned at the end of season 2 by the new Borg Queen.

After last season they said the Borg plotline would not carry through to Season 3 and would be “explored elsewhere.” As this article states, that doesn’t discount the Borg entirely, but likely takes the connections to the new Borg Queen off the table.

I wouldn’t mind believing that but pretty much both the producers and actors said you don’t even have to watch the first two seasons at all to watch this one. But then again, I think it’s kind of a big deal Picard’s old body is a plot point for the season which obviously came from season one but I guess they feel it’s been explained enough in this season for newbies.

But the portal in season 2 was basically the crutch for the entire season so I think season 2 is very vital if so.

The changelings need Picard’s body so they can dupicate it effectively. Presumably Shifter Picard will lead the attack, and all this find Jack stuff is a bullshit ploy to draw Picard away so they can kill him. Can’t have two Jean-Lucs running around.

I like the skin of evil theory. That’s a good idea .

As for Picard’s son. Maybe he has some element of Borh DNA in him? I think the son is a ruse to draw in Picard regardless.

Then why would the Face be so insistent about Vadic following Picard and Jack into the nebula? They definitely want Jack for some reason.

The Face could be the Species 8472/Undine

Could Picard have had some residual Borg nanites in his blood that he passed on to Jack when he was conceived and that is the true source of his visions? He is somehow connecting with the Collective?

So will we see an Okudagram of borgified sperm?

Heh, maybe.

Since in First Contact Picard could still hear the Borg Queen’s voice, that would suggest that something Borg did stay with him even after he was deBorgified. Why couldn’t he have passed it down to his son?

The Face is Locutus resurrected, and he can only be killed by resurrected JTK who is just “too good to live among us.”


No, I hope not.

Pah Wraiths maybe? I keep thinking that with all of the fiery imagery that Jack is seeing in his hallucinations.

One little aspect that came to mind was Pah-wraiths, more so the return of Dukat….just not in the form we knew him from in DS9. Knowing Dukat’s history and his admiration for the Pah-wraith, I am willing to bet that Dukat forged an alliance in the afterlife or whatever, with the Pah-wraith to seek the ultimate revenge on the Federation, using this rogue band of changlings as his pawn in this ultimate game of vengence.

its kirk / shatner…..why else would they only allow the first 6 episodes to be viewed as a preview to the press. if they included episodes 7-10 no one would have kept the secret that shatner is big villain of the season….plus the tease at the end of the ready room makes me think that the borg have stole kirk and picard’s bodies to use to overtake the federation

I doubt it, the show is Star Trek Picard so spotlighting any other famous captain doesn’t make sense.

Why would the Prophets allow these renegade Changelings to cross into the Alpha Quadrant, particularly after Sisko joined them in the Wormhole/Celestial Temple?

Perhaps they were already on this side of the wormhole, maybe led by Laas.

Why would Lass care, though? What dog does he have in this fight? He had no contact with the Great Link at all, and everything he knew about Solids came from Odo. Would not his experiences have informed his perspective?

As I recall, Laas was quite dismissive of Solids. He separated from Odo because he didn’t buy his patience and understanding of Solids as represented by the Federation. He then went on to have his own experiences that could have reinforced his anti-solid bias. Assuming he knew about the Section 31-engineered “Founder’s Disease” and was afflicted by it himself and unable to access the Great Link for its cure, would he not be out for revenge against those who decimated and defeated his people?

Okay, but from what we’ve seen and been told these are Changelings that hold a specific grudge against the Federation for losing the war, not against Solids in general.

Further, even if Lass was all Gun-Ho about jointing an anti-Solid/anti-Federation movement with other Changelings peeved about losing the war, why would he have a leadership role in it? He’s just another scout that, it bears noting, the Founders didn’t bother seeking out to join with them in the Great Link.

They were all about Odo but didn’t give a crap about the other 99 scouts like Lass that they sent with him.

Lass would not be likely to sign up with any Changelings, and he might resent them as much as he does Solids.

Let met sketch out this scenario, which I think is defensible even if it is probably turns out not to be true. Laas departs from Odo after failing to persuade him to accompany him. He is unknowingly infected by the Founders’ Disease after joining with Odo. He goes off in search of the other 98 of “The Hundred.” He encounters some of them and succeeds in becoming their leader by the force of his personality, which had nearly won Odo over. All of The Hundred have been genetically programmed to desire to return to the Great Link and report after some period of time. While a lone wolf, Laas is not an isolationist as shown by the fact that he linked with Odo. Laas and company come down with the disease, which triggers their homing instincts. However, they cannot get back through the wormhole because of the war. Stuck in the Alpha Quadrant, they get sicker and some die. They somehow learn that it was the Federation that is responsible for their deterioration and later the defeat of the Founders. Laas is bitter that Odo’s views have “contaminated” the entire Link. He and his allies survive the disease with pain. They want revenge on the Federation, which to them represents all that is evil about Solids. Perhaps they link with other changelings whom the Link has sent forth and corrupt them to their cause.

How this relates to The Hand or the importance of Jack remains unclear. All I think this explains is the origins of a group of changelings who are disassociated from the Founders.

Laas is bitter that Odo’s views have “contaminated” the entire Link. 

He’d need to link with Gamma Quadrant Changelings to know that.

It is possible that once these renegade Changelings returned to the Alpha Quadrant they sought out the Hundred to bolster their numbers, but that would be after the fact, meaning, after they either decide to retaliate or after they were convinced to by whoever it is that leads them.

So, while Lass might at best be a general in their army, he would not be likely to lead them.

While it is possible for Lass to be involved (though not likely), his being on the Alpha Quadrant side of the wormhole would still not explain how the ones on the Gamma side came through, and why the Prophets and Sisko did not stop them.

We’ll just have to wait and see.


My guess is they are Changelings who were posing as other people in the Alpha Quadrant during the war and were not in the Great Link when odo returned to cure them. Their biological “advancements” are not that at all, and they are cursed with semi solid life. They managed to cure the disease in their own way, which resulted in their semi solid abilities. I think the Changelings tried to get all of the imposters back to the Great Link but if they were spread out among the different governments, they may have not been able to get back. The Female Changeling, when surrendering, agreed to withdraw all Dominion forces from the Alpha Quadrant, but that may not have been possible with operatives deep within the Quadrant’s governments. Not to mention the Romulans and Klingons were most likely not as respectful to the peace agreement with POWs as the Federation may have been. If there were Changelings within the Romulan and Klingon Governments, they would have had been difficult to sneak out.

Why they are after Jack and stole Picard’s body is still a mystery to me. I do think Jack has some sort of borg nano technology in his body since he is technically the son of Locutus? As for why they stole Locutus’ body??? No Clue.

I don’t think there were actually that many in the Klingon and Romulan governments. Why do that when you can claim there are and just sit back and let the paranoia run rampant.

I have wondered: how did Vadic/changelings/the face know that Jack was Picard’s son even before Picard knew it? Particularly since Beverly hadn’t been advertising his lineage…

Clearly it’s actually Jack (joking)

I say this JOKINGLY to make people laugh.

The villain of the story is….

wait for it…


LOL LOL LOL That is excellent, Robert. TOO TOO TOO funny, and I actually Laughed Out Loud when I read it. Thank you for reminding us, in that post, to stop taking all this so serious. That gave me the SMILE OF THE DAY. LLAP, Robert.

LOL, it’s been 15 years since she was imprisoned at the Daystrom Institute. Enough time to plot her vengeance! ;D

Could they be looking to clone Locutis?

I’m thinking it’s got to be something like that. I wonder if maybe there wasn’t an actual Locutus at some point whose personality was transferred into Picard’s body, and it’ll have something to do with that.

Still thinking it’s Redjac. ;-)

What if the evolved Changeling biology is the result of the Founders wanting to alter their biology via genetic manipulation, creating a new caste?

The Face might be of the old caste, leading a radicalized movement, with the “evolved” changelings as advanced agents and infiltrators.

The aim could be to create a new war with the Federation in order to justify a “New Dominion” over other life, with a new Great Link.

The possibility of the Face being Armus is growing for me by leaps and bounds – especially if those who abandoned turn out to be Changelings who cast him out of the Great Link. It’s long been rumored that this season will reference Tasha Yar. I think it is very likely the Skin of Evil is free to roam and is manipulating the Changelings.

But the Founders did not enter the Alpha Quadrant (except for the Hundred) until after the discovery of the Bajoran wormhole.

I really do enjoy how the Armus theory started out as a joke, but is now an actual theory with plenty of believers. Now I kind of want it to be true just for that alone.

what if the face is Gul Dukat (or Macet)? are DS9 fans gonna be mad that TNG stole / usurped their storylines for their own?

i also wonder if picard will give his golem body to jack (and have it repurposed to look like Jack with M510’s help) so that he can live a full life and they plant his consciousness back into his old body and he briefly wakes to see jack is ok and then passes away at the end of the show.

The Armus theory has some surprising credibility and sounds cool, but it’s not going to happen. The Borg being behind Vadic makes a LOT more sense, no matter how tiresome that sounds to those of us that have Borg fatigue.
Whether it’s Trek, Who, Star Wars, Marvel, etc – the key to large numbers of viewers is to appeal to the fanbase  – without whom you don’t have an IP at all –  first and foremost, but very important to also appeal to the lowest common denominator of viewer who has a casual interest in the genre and may or may not tune in based on word of mouth, reviews, etc.  
Your big bad for a show that has a stated intent is to give the star and the TNG cast a proper finale/sendoff is not therefore either going to be completely new, or a callback to an obscure and rather lame villain from a mediocre at best ep of the original series – broadcast before it was making anything more than a minor impact on pop culture radar.
TOS brought back Khan for the 2nd TOS film  – pretty much the only standalone villain outside of the Klingons and Romulans to have made any kind of memorable impact – played by an easily recognizable actor. The TOS films then went on to use Klingons as baddies in due course – TWICE.
TNG came up with the Borg after the Ferengi fell flat on their overly comedic faces – tired of them now or not, they are the only big bad the TNG era came up with, other than Q; to have made a big impact on pop culture. Sure enough, the TNG films brought them back for that eras most successful film. And, since TNG had majorly fleshed out the Romulans, they were brought back for Nemesis.
DS9 never made it to films but their major big bad was the Changelings – so in a nod to that show’s newfound respect and streaming popularity, (both long overdue) here they are, finally as the adversary for the TNG crew.
Voyager could never come up with a memorable big bad on its own, (the Kazon? COME ON) and had to resort to the Borg – no surprise there.     
So here we are with Picard season 3 and we have a double act of villainy. Changelings coupled with a mystery boss hog; which based on my reasoning can really only be the Borg.
Look at it this way: Undiscovered Country was never going to pit Kirk and crew up against Gorgan from “And The Children Shall Lead”, by the same reasoning. The hardcore fans would have said “That’s lame”, and the casual fans would have been saying “Who the f%$k is this? …and he’s lame”.     

In the TNG episode “The Chase”, it was revealed that all species in the Alpha Quadrant share a common ancestor.

The question is, does that extend to ALL species in the universe? And, if so, does that include the Changelings?

Are Changelings and Solids actually related?

If so, how did Changelings come into existence if they share a common ancestor with the Solids?

I think Picard is host to a Pah-wraith, which is why they want his body. And they want Jack because Picard passed on a portion of the Pah-wraith to him. To borrow from Harry Potter, they’re basically horcruxes to a Pah-wraith. Would explain why Jack had nightmares as a child, why he’s having dark visions now, the red eyes, and why he has a “moon knight” mode where he blanks out and finds he’s kicked butt when he comes to.