“Surrender”
Star Trek: Picard Season 3, Episode 8 – Debuted Thursday, April 6, 2023
Written by Matt Okumura
Directed by Deborah Kampmeier
Crisply wrapping up the arc that began in episode 7, “Surrender” delivers a more entertaining and balanced episode full of memorable moments.
I can’t believe you told her about the seat warmer.
WARNING: Spoilers below!
RECAP
“Titan is hers now.”
Captain Vadic makes herself comfortable as she shuts down systems and dispatches soldiers to hunt for Jack across the USS Titan. Young Jack Crusher gets a firsthand look at Changeling brutality as he casts his mind into one of the random crewmembers who fell into a trap. As Vadic announces she is going to start killing the bridge crew if Jack doesn’t show up, Shaw dresses down Seven for ignoring the consequences of not blowing up the turbolift he rode to the bridge with the Changeling infiltrators. Hiding out in sickbay, Jack tells his parents about his superpowers and gets them on board with his plan to jump into the mind of a bridge officer and input a code to wrestle back control of the ship. With just a minute left on the hostage countdown clock, Jack takes over Lt. Mura, but Vadic spots the attempt and even sorts out Jack is backseat driving the Bajoran officer. The Changeling captain makes a show of who gets to die first, then switches targets at the last brutal second, forcing Seven to announce to the entire ship, “She just executed Lt. T’Veen.” And that’s a wrap for the Vulcan science officer… Too soon?
The clock is reset to 10 minutes until the next hostage is sacrificed, so Picard’s group gets desperate to gain control of the ship. They turn to the only thing capable of breaking Vadic’s control: the insane Daystrom android that caused all the trouble in the last episode. Picard suggests removing the partition between the Lore and Data personalities, but Geordi warns that is a dangerous game Data could lose. This gambit is going to take more time than they have, so Jack goes to buy them more. He shows up on the bridge to give Vadic exactly what she wants, but the young rogue channels his inner bounty hunter, revealing a glowing device he assures Vadic will kill him if she doesn’t let the rest of the bridge crew go. My kind of scum.
Yes, I can read your mind… what’s a ghost candle?
“You are not giving up.”
With most of the Changelings running around the Titan, Deanna Troi has a moment to clean her husband’s torture wounds on board the Shrike. She lightens the mood with playful banter but he lets her know he has changed since his epiphany in the space baby nebula. “I missed loving you, Imzadi.” Aww. Riker hopes giving up that compromised code helped Picard set up a “classic trap,” but he is concerned the Changelings have the upper hand. This indulgence into despair opens up the floodgates as this couple finally comes to grips with how the death of their son Thad has derailed their lives and their marriage. Following admissions, revelations, apologies, and a new sense of hope, they come through—agreeing it’s time for them to move forward together, which includes leaving their isolation on the backwater planet where they have been hiding from the galaxy. Turns out this dark prison cell actually works wonders for family therapy.
The couple is interrupted by a guard, but not for long as he gets skewered from behind by a sword: It’s Mr. Worf! The Klingon takes this moment to connect with Deanna, telling her about how much he’s thought about her on his journey to becoming a better man, and it gets a bit awkward, especially for Will, who wonders if this is a rescue or just more torture. A more understanding Deanna is happy with the growth of her old friend, but they are a bit pressed for time. He takes them to Raffi (who’s on the ship with him) and to a sort of reunion with Jean-Luc—specifically his corpse taken from Daystrom. Turns out the Changelings were just interested in Picard’s brain, specifically removing the part associated with Irumodic Syndrome, but the gang isn’t sure why, so they grab the database to be a plot point later. Alarms alert them that they have overstayed their welcome on the Shrike and they head to a shuttle, leaving Picard’s body behind. Um, guys, aren’t you forgetting something?
Who’s scruffy-looking?
“There is a darkness on this ship.”
The android’s personality partition is dropped, and the two Soong brothers find themselves in a battle for dominance in a void. Data can feel himself slipping away as he examines artifacts of a “life lived.” Each object Data hands to Lore is a measure of a man, and Lore snatches them away, dismissing them as “meaningless memorabilia.” Monitoring the conflict, Geordi is alarmed as he can see Lore is “devouring” his friend bit by bit, and he is powerless to stop it. Inside the positronic mind palace, Data feels for his brother “because you have had nothing and I have had everything,” as he continues to hand over all his memories. To Picard, this looks like “surrender” (episode title alert!). The final fraternal fight ends when Data disappears after handing over “the last of me,” the cat that taught him about love. Lore’s triumph is short-lived as Data shines back to life, revealing he knew Lore couldn’t resist keeping his memories and “in doing so you have become me.” Sneaky. With one final hug, Lore fades away. Goodbye, brother.
On the bridge, Shaw and his crew are dismissed to the ready room but Seven stays, “accepting the consequences” (callback!). Vadic teases Jack with her understanding of his “gifts,” asking about the voices and even that red door. Before she can finally reveal his truth, Data chimes in with his own taunts, letting the Changeling know her captaincy is over. As Worf and Raffi slice their way through the soldiers roaming the ship, Jack activates his device, which turns out to be a shield generator. Seven gets the cool “get off my bridge” line and Vadic and her last henchman are ejected into space, freezing and shattering on the hull of the Shrike, before the Changeling ship is pulverized in a hail of Titan torpedoes. Buh-bye. The new and improved Data and Geordi have a nice moment alone before the classic TNG briefing room scene we’ve all been waiting for. “Been a long time since we all sat around the table like this.” The Enterprise band is back together and they take a beat to catch up before Jean-Luc gets down to business. Frontier Day is hours away and only together can they stop whatever the Changelings (and their masters) have planned. Deanna points to the Jackephant in the room, suggesting it’s time she talked to Beverly and Jean-Luc’s son, the focus of all this “darkness.” Alone with the Betazed, Jack tries to drop his “charismatic deflection,” revealing how terrified he is to find out what is behind that red door. Deanna assures him that they can face it together… but not this week.
You’re right, the grey does add an air of distinction.
ANALYSIS
Coming together
“Surrender” stands alone as an excellent episode, and is certainly the better half of the two-part Titan-gets-boarded arc that began with episode 7. There were clearer stakes, more momentum on the plot, but especially a more balanced tone. Even with more brutal and fatal consequences, there were also a number of heartfelt and even fun character beats. Bringing back Jonathan Frakes and Michael Dorn helped in this regard, as they have been the backbone for the humor all season, but other characters also had their lighter moments as well. Holding it all together was a strong theme of renewal and growth for a number of characters as they faced their fears and took the critical steps toward their hopeful futures, which is all very Star Trek.
The episode had a number of memorable standout performances, including Amanda Plummer in what appears to be her final appearance. The frantic menace she brought to Vadic shows why Plummer was chosen, keeping the audience guessing all the way to her final line, succinctly summing up her character’s motivation with “f—ing solids.” After popping up briefly a few times in previous episodes, Marina Sirtis was finally integral to the story with a grounded performance that moved the Riker/Troi story forward in a big way, and she also started what looks to be a key role in Jack mystery plot. Her Betazoid powers are much stronger than in the TNG days, but that is a good thing. Like Worf and others, these characters have spent the last decades evolving, again a key theme of the episode. The biggest example of this was Data, with Brent Spiner truly doing double duty, weaving back and forth as both Data and Lore only to become something entirely new; this evolution is already fascinating to watch. Bringing a character back from the dead is always a bit tricky, and especially so in this case for many reasons, but “Surrender” pulled it off well, leaving us ready to accept this new Data, who appears to have even more to discover about himself.
If I knew Starfleet had these new great outfits I might have stayed in.
Eight episodes into the season and we finally got all the Next Generation characters together, fittingly all around the table like the good old days. While some may have wanted this reunion sooner, this payoff was well-earned and smartly acknowledged along with some very human small talk among friends. Even before this big scene, the episode was woven with memorable moments, from the stakes-setting killing of T’Veen to the running gag of people not liking Picard’s wine used as a Changeling test. This season has been in some ways defined by nods to nostalgia, but here each callback had purpose, especially the exchange of memories within the battle between Lore and Data. Other moments are even more subtle, such as Geordi asking a resurrected Data how he feels, evoking the resurrected Spock being asked the same question in Star Trek IV. The TNG characters were the focus of the episode, but Seven and Shaw still had their own little mini-arc as the two are starting to mesh, and Jeri Ryan got her own hero moment, a nod to Harrison Ford in Air Force One.
Like many episodes this season, the plot took a few shortcuts to get where it wanted to go, but most of these gaps can easily be filled with headcanon. There are some things that are just curiosities, like why (and how) did Worf and Raffi use a shuttle (“Emerson”) to board the Shrike instead of La Sirena, which was seen flying around cloaked. One thing that seemed gratuitous was Worf and Raffi using swords to fight the Changelings, but at least (unlike Shaw in the previous episode) they remembered a vaporizing phaser coup de grâce. And little shortcuts are fine, especially when the episode was peppered with so many nice little beats, like how Raffi and Troi had the sweet “strange days” moment, with the writer acknowledging these characters have never met each other. It’s these little touches that make this episode very human, especially fitting as it’s also the episode where Data comes the closest ever to reaching his goal of becoming human.
I don’t care if it is a Klingon tradition, we are not interested in being a throuple.
Open that door
Jack Crusher continues to grow as a character, with Ed Speleers showing impressive range in “Surrender” as he goes from anguish to arrogance to anxiety. He is selling the idea of this young man coming to grips with his strange and dangerous circumstances. It was a smart choice to not waste time convincing his parents about his superpowers without evidence by having Sidney vouch for him: Beverly and Jean-Luc have seen a lot of stranger things. However, the mystery box of what is really going on with Jack is wearing out its welcome, especially after the previous episode’s cliffhanger with Vadic saying it was time for Jack to learn who he truly was.
This frustrating long wait is also true regarding the Frontier Day attack and the true nature of who is really pulling the strings behind Vadic and the Changelings. Data calling Vadic out for being a “monologuing protoplasm” was a fun and self-reverential touch for this character who overstayed her welcome if she was the distraction before the real big bad (her boss “The Face”). There were a few more clues for all of this dropped in the episode which we will probably delve into later here at TrekMovie, but in the end, it feels like episodes seven and eight were an extended bottle show to set up the (expensive) action and major reveals for the two-part season finale.
Don’t think about his eyes, don’t think about his eyes… dammit!
Final thoughts
While it’s possible the siege of the Titan story could have been told over a single episode, this second part was entirely fulfilling due to strong character moments. All the elements are now in place for what should be a wild ride in the final two episodes. Even through this mid-season stretch, the third and final season is by far the best of the series, and the wait for the finale is almost unbearable albeit bittersweet with the knowledge this is all coming to an end.
This whole season was really a cautionary tale: Smoking kills.
BITS
- The Betazed word “Yintaru” means “baby of immense size.”
- Riker and Troi made several references to their home on the planet Nepenthe, seen in the season 1 episode of the same name. This included a mention of Riker cooking pizza.
- Troi is a fan of Raktajino, the Klingon coffee first seen in Deep Space Nine.
- Troi mentioned that like with all Changelings, she could not read their emotions; however, she could sense the “darkness” around Jack.
- As Data began to remember moments of his life, audio played from the TNG episode “Elementary, Dear Data.”
- Data’s memories included…
- Sherlock Holmes’ deerskin hat and pipe from “Elementary, Dear Data”
- A TNG-era tricorder.
- Data’s hologram of Tasha Yar, first seen in “Measure of a Man.”
- A deck of cards (with the same card pattern from “All Good Things…”)
- His cat Spot.
- In the conference room scene, Worf was in Starfleet uniform with the rank of captain, something previously teased in a pre-season Instagram Star Trek Log.
- Picard called Data “Commander” raising the question: Is this resurrected Data the same person, and does he still have the commission rank in Starfleet held before the original android was destroyed in Star Trek Nemesis?
Tell him he is a pretty cat, and a good cat.
More to come
We will discuss the episode in detail on Friday’s episode of All Access Star Trek. every Friday, the TrekMovie.com All Access Star Trek podcast covers the latest news in the Star Trek Universe. The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Stitcher and is part of the TrekMovie Podcast Network.
Picard streams exclusively on Paramount+ in the Americas, Europe, the Caribbean and South Korea. It also streams internationally on Amazon Prime Video in more than 200 countries and territories. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
For everyone guessing which TNG characters might make cameo appearances in Picard season 3, be honest…
Who had Spot on their Bingo cards?
Ha! That got a legitimate out-loud laugh from me!
You joke, sir, but as with GENERATIONS Spot was, literally, one of the best things about that episode. (Even if he was played by a different actor.)
Was Spot male or female this time? My wife goes crazy anytime she sees the cat on account of this (same thing is true for Dirty Harry film SUDDEN IMPACT with a dog.)
Spot was identified as male in the episode. I read that it was Jeri Taylor’s idea to make Spot female in Season 7. I think it was literally the last appearance of Spot prior to becoming the solution for curing everyone in “Genesis” (because spot was pregnant).
Sharon and I had two cats during our 30 years together, both cats were females.When I escape to the mountains up north next year, I’ll adopt an orange female (in honor of the 1950s movie star cat “Orangey” who was a co-star in Universal’s This Island Earth).
10/10
In my dumb headcanon, Virtual Spot was running around Lore’s positronic matrix, tearing things up, building a little nest, hoping Data would come over for treats and scritchies.
Fun fact: I actually held the cat who played Spot in the 90s while I was working on a Trek-related project. The same cat also was used as the model on the boxes of Friskies cat food.
I always wanted to chase that cat. Next time I go outside to pee I will do a little dance in your honor, and sniff something extra gross.
Seriously, though… I commend how they figured out how to bring Data back. And I actually thought, “OK, Data’s death is a constant in every iteration and they don’t want an easy way back for the character.” But when Data ultimately wins, I thought it felt like a legitimate way to reset Data, since they were committed to doing so.
YMMV…
On another place, someone kept commenting that they wanted to see Spot every time someone speculated about which legacy characters we might see.
So, I guess they’re happy.
Having seen synth Spot in season one, I thought it might be possible to get a reference. Spot as Trojan Horse, wasn’t however anything anyone proposed.
Just think about it: From the perspective of cat lifespans, the last appearance of Spot was literally several generations ago!
The episode was good again this season i feel is falling into the same dragged out story problem that S2 had as they could of easily told these 8 episodes in 3-4 episodes imo and i hope the final 2 episodes are much better.
I’m glad Vadic is dead. Amanda Plummer did a good job with what she could with the character but Vadic was not a well written character imo. She came off as a bland/generic villain writing wise.
The Jack story is the perfect example of the dragged out feeling I’m having with this season as i really have no interesting in what is happening to him and just want that part of the story over with.
Maybe if whatever Ancient evil (i hope it’s not Armus as that would be silly imo) that is behind what is happening to Jack (and why he has superhero powers that look like they belong in a marvel movie) is an interesting reveal/vilian then maybe it could redeem this part of the story line but we will see.
While i love the character of Raffi and she looked badass dealing with Vadic’s cronies they were defeated quite easily along with Vadic herself who too was easily dealt with.
The writing to me didn’t make sense. The characters lucked into a solution and had a plan that made no sense and it felt just so pointless to me and the ending with Troi/Jack reminded me of S2 with Picard and his mother.
What i enjoyed about this episode is the Data/Lore scenes and how Data won the battle against Lore by using his own memories. Maybe being one with Data will give the character of Lore some peace. Also the Riker/Troi scenes and the conference room scene with all the TNG crew were really nice too.
I don’t disagree. I think it will all come down to the finale. If it’s good, the slower pace and dragged-out mysteries can be overlooked. If it doesn’t satisfy… yeesh.
What makes me scratch my head about that is that it didn’t have to be that way. And it really sets them up for an utter disastrous failure if the finale isn’t absolutely great.
On this, we’re agreed. STP 2023 will never be a great season of Trek for me, but stick the landing and I might call it a reasonable success, certainly a better sign-off for the TNG characters than NEMESIS was.
Oh good, I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. As much as I liked episode 5 (because they truly did a great job with Ro), that’s the episode where the air started to come out of this thing and this week just felt like another drop in air pressure. I do think the Data-Lore showdown was so goofy it actually worked (I fought back some mustard tears when Spot appeared) but it highlighted the fact that this season’s budget was *severely* limited. Best case scenario, eps 5-8 were severely limited in scope/dynamism to save the rest of the budget for 9 & 10.
The first 5 episodes made the show look like it might genuinely be among the best single seasons of Trek. The last three episodes have sputtered. But if the final pair are like the first five, it may still be one of the best seasons.
At the very least, I’m comfortable saying this is the best season of Star Trek: Picard.
I think it’s genuinely successful in hitting fans’ unresolved longings for resolution of TNG characters, but not sure that it stands on its own.
My spouse is still willing to watch almost every episode the day of broadcast here in Canada.
This almost never happens even with the other shows that they very much like (SNW, LDS, Prodigy).
Despite a laughing complaint ‘and of course its another cliffhanger’ this season is appointment television. So, I take that as a measure of success for a longtime fan.
For me, it’s likely that SNW season one will be my benchmark for quality in this era of the franchise.
An inch deep and a mile wide – that’s the phrase that comes to mind this season. I’ve enjoyed this season and believe it to be the best of modern Star Trek but I would have preferred this mystery to be condensed to 7-8 episodes with 2-3 standalone episodes that were more character focused.
All in all, I have a few complaints.
I don’t know if less episodes is necessarily the answer. But getting to the point a little quicker is becoming an issue. They introduced Jack’s mystery at the end of Ep. 3. I defended it into episode 6, but it should have been resolved by Episode 7. Now it’s going to wait until Episode 9, at least.
I agree. For episodes 3-6, the Jack mystery was portrayed in interesting ways, with different layers being shown in the episodes. The last two have just circled, though, and it’s gotten to be frustrating.
I can see why he’s making us wait. He probably didn’t want the Jack stuff to distract from the Riker/Troi reunion, and the Data/Lore stuff. But that’s all the more reason why it should have been revealed last week.
But if they had, then you almost have to make this week’s episode all about the fallout. Ultimately, I think it’s the fault of too many character threads. Perhaps the season is just overly ambitious in its character stories (a change of pace from previous seasons where the over-ambitiousness was from big plot stuff)
100% – this season is kind of like turning s1 “The Battle” or S7.22 “Bloodlines” from one episode into 8. It’s exhausting.
The freedom of streaming doesn’t necessarily make it better. “just because you can doesn’t mean you should”
That is what make Strange New Worlds such a breath of fresh air.
At times I do feel it drag but the overall season is pretty damn good that I didn’t mind. I’m kind of curious about the last 2 episodes though. I know they still have to deal with the Changeling in Starfleet. I hope they don’t rush this just to get to the point. It needs a strong finish.
Perhaps Section 31 rescued this Captain from the TOS Area, when the Enterprise break trough the Galaxy Barrier. You remember? Discovery had once an similar Episode. But in TOS some of the Bridge Officers became an “Mind Power” Bad Guy…
Agreed about Jack especially, it is getting a bit of a “who cares?” feeling to it. Not to mention with the superpowers it seems as though he can do way too much, as in anytime something needs to happen he can be the one who does it and so forth. An easy narrative crutch to a degree.
And I’ll say I don’t really find the actor particularly compelling , it seems a lot of actors around his age could be playing the role just as well, if not much better.
I like the actor a lot, I think he’s superb, and one of the best actors they could have found. Still, it’s asking a lot to have him play tortured sad Jack for 4 episodes straight, so the reveal better be damn good.
I think we probably have to accept that the reveal will, in fact, not be damn good. It will either be underwhelming or universe / character breaking.
I don’t think we have to accept anything until we see it. I do think, however, it’s best to keep expectations in check.
Um, why? Optimism!
Were you intentionally invoking Dr. Phlox, or is that just me?
Dr. Phlox is indeed a great character.
I, too, really don’t care what’s behind that red door. And the Jack abilities do feel somewhat out of place in a Trek show. Yes, I know Trek has done that before but I never cared for it. Q. The Platonians. Etc. I was actually bored with the whole Data overcomes Lore bit. It slowed the episode down to a crawl. The only bit about the Vadic resolution was I found myself wondering why the viewscreen doubles as a huge door to the outside. That’s a very convenient new design it seems. Other than that I was fine with the whole sequence. Plummer was really chewing up the scenery. And not in an awful Evil Georgeau kind of way. A more entertaining way.
I really liked that they played the Riker/Troi scenes in two-shots rather than talking heads, but again, they’ve got all those weird visual aberrations trashing the frame, same as they do with nearly every other environment. There are some nice natural distortions coming off the screendoor stuff they have between the holes on Vadic’s ship walls, and those just look different and cool, without becoming offensive and kooky (not punning on the word coukaloris there, film fans), but the rest of this stuff is just getting in the way of watching the actors or seeing the environment — it’s almost like somebody is rotating a lit xmas tree in front of the screen to block my enjoyment.
So much neck in the first photo
Wasn’t Spot a girl? Didn’t she have kittens? Data refers to Spot as “he” when talking to Lore. Am I nuts?
I think Spot changed a few times during TNG. At one point a male cat? Or am I thinking of Porthos?
Spot flipflopped a few times, both in sex and going from long hair to short hair
Also changed between an red Abyssinian and ginger tabby, which are always male.
Don’t you remember? It was that sixth/season episode where the Enterprise-D had a port of call at Camus II. Spot escaped Data’s quarters and somehow managed to make it down to the surface with a lady cat, where they did a Lester/Kirk-style body switch. Spot and her/his feline friend decided they liked their new bodies better, so at the end of the episode they stayed where they were, and that was that.
As of today, that would have been illegal in Idaho.
Post of the century!
(and if the cat tried out for Feline Olympics, the nuts in the crowd would probably drown it in the high-dive pool.)
…and parts of Arid-zona, too. >:P
Welcome to 2023. Even the cats are doing it.
Don’t start.
I know, but couldn’t resist.
stupid and unnecessary. Also has the more unfortunate crime on a Star Trek site of being incorrect. As already said, Spot’s gender was at times during the original run.
I don’t really care but thanks for your opinion anyway. By the way, insulting posters is against the etiquette here, so calm yourself.
Your joke was the thing that insulted both posters and readers with making it sound like being transgender was some silly fad because its 2023. Being trans, or LGBT is not some fad like Pokemon Go was.
Never said it was. Go be offended somewhere else.
Offend, then attack,sounds like MTG strategy to me, ‘eyes.’ And that isn’t insulting a poster, just stating a fact.
I don’t know what these MTG references mean. I admit my post was incendiary but all I’m going to say is some people will get offended at nothing and everything and there’s a limit to how much I’m going to walk on eggshells to spare their feelings. Sure let’s be careful and respectful of people’s feelings and sensitivities, but on the other end let’s also stop the drama and be offended at everything.
That sounds reasonable. Sadly reason is out the window with a lot of people these days. Honestly, in a true free society someone is going to get offended at something. I have as well. But I don’t cry about it like a lot of folks do.
To answer your first question (assuming it is not rhetorical): the ‘jewish space lasers’ lady that got elected awhile back is known popularly as MTG. And scorched-Earth (along with scorched humanists) is how she plays things to inflame her constituents and further soil the notion of democracy, so your being ‘incendiary’ is actually exactly along those same lines.
Oh that MTG… LOL hilarious… people need to caaaalm down.
Come on now…..this isn’t the MTG fan page.
So, what we can conclude from this is that OG Spot was actually one of Vadic’s super changelings sent back in time to infiltrate Data’s memories. Clearly that has to be the driving purpose of the season. /s
Congrats to Terry Matalas for making the same cliffhanger two weeks in a row. This mystery box is getting frustrating, give us answers already!
Now they will have to cram a ton of stuff into the last two hours.
It seems like a lot to do in two episodes. Establishing the threat and getting the gang together has taken about eight hours.
I never enjoy when Trek has to rush to the finish.
BTW, I never thought I’d ever say this after years of watching TNG, where Riker sometimes seems superfluous, but this show is better whenever Frakes is on screen.
Right, I don’t mind a cliffhanger every week — if it’s a different cliffhanger.
I don’t know why they couldn’t give us a brief shot of what’s on the other side of the door. Even a cryptic image would be enough for us to theorize about for another week.
The reveal of it being Locutus would have been better going I to the final two.
I’m open to any reveal at this point: Locutus, Barclay, LQ Sonny Clemmons, whatever you got.
My money is on Sonny Clemmons.
Wee doggies!
Won’t lie, I had to Google Sonny Clemmons lol.
How dare you! Sonny is a pit-woofie legend!
LOL I know, I don’t know how I forgot who that was. I won’t ever again though, promise. ;)
Agreed, but somehow, this time the cliffhanger felt less frustrating than last week.
If Brent Spiner is really okay with continue to play the Android Data, now with just some Contact Lens like Geordi (i assume. Did not saw any Movie Clips or Screenshots, except here on this Site) and the Writer Room needs some suggestions or time for both of their Future, then i have an Suggestion/Idea
Both (Geordi and Data) could be make their Space Ship Museum their new Temporary place. Why? Well, these Ships need someone that take care of, right? Until now, Geordi surly used Auto Bots to keep them from falling apart. But i bet, Geordi want to get rid of this “Entire Life feed Network in the System” then he could use Data’s knowledge or (to be more realistic here) his “Wikipedia” Upload functions. But yes, these 2 can not run this Big Facility on themselves, right? Well… Look no further. Look back at the End of Picard Season 1. Yes, this Big Cube and Soong’s Legacy Androids.They have their Peace there to slowly get used to Starfleet or Humans around them, in short to get them out of their Isolation (Of course it’s all free will)
So not all on the Legacy Cast need suddenly to have an Bridge Job all of the sudden, well depend how much Time lapse will happen between now and when Star Trek: Legacy airs. So they still can use these Space “Museum” Station Shots and some internal Rooms. They could reuse some of the Discovery Space Station sets for that. Just modify to fit in their Time. And Voila!. Smart recycling! and if they go that far they could also use the modified Discovery Sets for Star Trek: Academy shots
But please, this time not so darken Lights! :) Lorca is not anymore and thoughts of HDR Feature on “normal” TV’s or PC Monitors
Well, that’s it from me about Data and Geordi.
Jonathan Frakes
He once said in some Interview, that he could see himself being some kind of “Charlie” playing in the background for Mentoring or be the Top Commanding Officer for the New Cast. Also right now he is the most experienced Captain on the Titan. Picard do not count, because as Shawn once said of his “retired” Status. Also Picard lag a bit behind of the New Tech and Protocols.
Seven
She has earned it to become Captain some day. I know, many want he to be Captain ASAP. But as i once wrote, then she would become to Busy for the rest of Legacy. Also i think Shawn and Seven needs some kind of “rebonding” after the “Deep Shit of Chicago” respect her as she is, not what she once was (ex-Borg). So yes. I see for her more the Burnham way, just without starting an War (please *looking at the Writer Room*). Perhaps they could write Seven with more usage of her Voyager time. Sure she has experiance with the Borg, but it was not only the Borg that they meet in the Gamma Quadrant that was very Dangerous right? 8472 *hust* Because Voyager allies temporary with the Borg’s to get rid of them, right? Perhaps they have not forgotten the “Starfleet” for that (Well, they are not the Pakleds)
Well, that’s it from me about Seven and Shawn (a bit)
Worf and Raffi
They could still be playing Starfleet intel Spec OPS. But if Section 31 is to Blame on the Picard 3 Season finale, then they should get rid of them and with Worf and Raffi becoming a Member of a New reborn “Section 31”, just with a New Name or Number. The Name “Section 31” is then to tainted with to much Blood and Deaths
Oh Well, again i turned an simply reply into something bigger. i am sorry about that.
It does seem after this episode that Shaw actually does have a thing or two to teach Seven about being a Captain; she seems to put whatever her mission is at a given time above what the primary responsibilities as a Captain (to ship and crew) would be.
Also, Data and Geordi could train the Chief Engineer of future Ships or Titan with that many “real” Ship Tech around the Station, where no Holographic Database would help. Learn from the Best with real things…
But poor Scene Set builders, when they show some scenes where they teaching them on filming Sets they need Real Stuff. Sure the Monitor Wall could fake deepness of the Engine Room, but the Actors still need some thing to grape and to play around
i mean, they could also train other Bridge Officers on the Real Deal. But it’s a Budget problem, too
Perhaps they could do the Kobayashi Maru on the Real Enterprise Bridge :)
p.s. Sorry for the late reply
I think they’ll make the Section 31 show into a Georgiou, Worf, Rafi show.
Perhaps, but it depends in what Time Georgiou traveled. We will see
So… they blew up Picard’s body? And the big secret is somehow related to Irumodic Syndrome?
Original body is now toast with the Shrike.
Whatever was special about his brain was removed.
Terry Matalas has said the Borg are not involved in this season..buuuuut
Showrunners lie to deflect.
So far he has shown himself to be completely above board. Until he proves otherwise, i’d lean towards believing him.
That said, the irumodic parts of his brain could still be RELATED to the Borg, but it doesn’t mean they’ll appear.
Matalas says the Borg aren’t involved and Abrams and company said Khan wasn’t a part of Into Darkness. Vedec made the crack to Seven about it being fitting she bear there to watch whatever she was planning to do to Jack. Seemed like a hint of something Borg related happening.
Oh, I didn’t realize that Abrams and Matalas were the same person. So weird that everyone likes Matalas but hates Abrams, then.
Again, though, all he said was that the Borg weren’t in the season, it could still somehow relate to the Borg.
Well, it seemed that way but it might be possible the brought the body over in the shuttle.
Yeah, they blew up They Shrike.
We dont know that they blew up Picard’s body.
Could Changelings be using the rare Irumodic Syndrome to introduce a plague to wipe out the solids? Turnabout is fair play?
So whatever Jack has, which is related to human Picard’s condition, if that is what caused the Borg to come after Picard to make him Locutus, and now the changelings want this – to make a Changeling which has this power taken from dead JLP and Jack.
I don’t get their blowing up SHRIKE at all. Aren’t they going to need firepower to save the day? Wouldn’t that ship be useful as a distraction if nothing else, esp if jackinthebox could yellow his eyes enough to make fleet changelings think he is Vadic and get close in to ram their command ship?
Yes- I think that ship is pretty cool and would be a nice rip of the hat to “Uss Bounty”
I know some people have complained about the fan service, but seeing the core seven characters from TNG (including Data!!) sitting around that briefing room table: just wow. I am so thankful that something so important to me as a kid has been resurrected. I can’t wait for the final two episodes. I was disappointed in T’Veen’s death. I found her interesting and wanted to learn more about her background. I was also surprised they left Picard’s body on the Shrike to be obliterated. I would think Picard himself would want to to have a proper burial… at least I think I would in that situation, ha! But just a couple of minor nits in an overall fantastic episode…
The question about Data’s rank.
He’s back in uniform, has a comm badge, but doesn’t appear to have a rank on, yet at least.
More than likely they’re gonna treat this like Spock where he resumes his old rank and status despite ya know…having been dead.
For Starfleet Data is long Dead. So it’s just not had the time to reinstated him
First you have to rid Starfleet Personnel of Changelings, then you can find the being who handles the Resurrection Reinstatement forms. Do you know how much paperwork that is?
Plus it aired on Thursday. You know anything needing to be filed or installed doesn’t arrive in Starfleet till Tuesday.
it’s a field promotion…
It must be recorded in the Ships Log for taken effect. Picard once promoted Seven on the Bridge around with many other Officers. So if this get an Entry then it’s official. That Data has an Commander Rank.But “too many cooks spoil the broth” so i think Seven, Riker, Shawn and Picard are enough for now on the USS Titan
But yes. someone need to replace the lost Bridge Officers and since he is the best Candidate to adept faster as others, i could see Data as temporary Bridge Officer in my Mind for now
Considering this “Data” is something a bit more than before, there’s a chance they’d probably want to do an extensive analysis on him first, before bringing him back to active duty.
I would have thought that given past experiences with AI’s that Star Fleet would even be OK with a completely unknown AI officer to begin with. That was always a big stretch.
That always struck me as odd, from the day I first read the TNG format. If Data had been put together in a Federation facility, sure. But, the product of a brilliant eccentric on an Earth Colony that’s been destroyed by an unknown alien, and whose thoughts and personality are made up from the memories of the slaughtered colonists? You’re going to put that in a position of authority on a capital vessel capable of destroying entire worlds? Doesn’t seem likely.
especially after the first dozen or so times he or his connection to Soong put the ship in danger….
And that’s why I still love coming here. Genuinely well-considered Insights!
Realistically, Data should have been reassigned after “Brothers,” which foreshadowed the whole Mars situation on Picard. Equally, Picard should have been reassigned after both BOBW and “Chain of Command,” and probably Riker after “Frame of Mind.”
despite a relatively strict hierarchy, Starfleet has been pretty lax with doling out commissions. Not complaining, but I think it’s pretty clear that the series is happy to play fast and loose with that aspect. If Captain JLP could make his Chief Medical Officer’s son (who wasn’t even in the Academy) an (acting) bridge officer by fiat, I think Admiral JLP could pretty easily make the re-resurrected reintegrated copy of his former Science Officer (and First Officer? Was he promoted at Nemesis? I forget) a commander or whatever other rank he wanted. A little field commission for the old pal.
Data was in receipt of orders and promotion to full 3 pip commander and first officer of the E-E, so that’d be the last status, three pip commander.
I *suspect* we’ll see him as Captain Data at the end of the series, but we’ll see.
Picard called him ‘commander.’ Life-rank, as some trek novelists suggested decades back?
Courtesy rank for the equivalent of a retired officer, one would think.
Just as Picard’s title is correctly written Admiral Picard (ret.).
Kitty! A pretty cat and a good cat. Always.
Meh, that solution to the Data and Lore problem wasn’t exactly accurate I don’t think but it’s fiction, it doesn’t matter. Also DID isn’t that studied yet as far as I know.
This is going to be an unpopular opinion but I wish Vadic hadn’t died. She was the best chance we had of seeing the gamma quadrant again in my opinion. I wish she could have just been captured and rehabilitated.
Well, they can go and play the T-1000 Fluid trick. But for that they need to find the right Fluid pieces of her in between her Changelings comrades and the Wreck of the Ship
Yeah. I was thinking she was going to morph back together a-la the T-1000 as well. But now that she blew up they would have to do another Palpatine trick to bring her back. And I wouldn’t put such foolishness past this group. Nothing is too ridiculous for them.
It’s less that I care about her, because I really don’t, and more that I only wanted that for the chance to see what’s happening in the gamma quadrant.
Also the heat of the Explosion, did sure cooked some Fluid of her. So only solution i can pull of my Guts are.. Gravity well, where all of these Fluid come together and some heat source unfroze them. But this could become Ugly what we would see… or they return to the Great Link and are really Free (unlike some Khan Movie *whistles*). Yes, perhaps this is the Rock solid (the Pun) solution to prevent any comeback for them
Yeah but Palpatine fell down a bottomless pit, blew up then blew up again. And they STILL brought him back. And that totally feels like a Kurtzman & Co move.
That was one of the fastest hour of television ever for me. When I got to the end I thought there was at least one more segment left. But alas…
I know people think that Jack and the red door not being resolved yet is tiresome buuuuut I for one am just enjoying the ride because once it’s over… it’s all over.
As for the episode, I audibly gasped when Lt. T’Veen was killed. I didn’t see that coming at all. The one thing that I still don’t understand is what is going on with the transporters. I know Roe said not to trust them, but why?
I’ll be anxious to go back and watch 7/8 as one big episode today and see how it feel, as that’s the way it was intended. Overall I’m enjoying this ride and it’s bittersweet that all will be revealed and come to an end.
Perhaps the Transport Buffers subroutines are still compromised. I bet this is the work of their Own Boss as “routine maintenance” or “improving efficiency” of the cliche Bad Admiral. Because of the “talking to each other Ship protocols”
Example: “The Fly” Horror Movie
Good question. I thought it was because of the chance that they could be used to kill or kidnap someone easily and replace them with a changeling (the real Tuvok beams up, but he gets sent somewhere else and changeling Tuvok materializes). Or there could even just be a transporter “accident.”
I saw the “we’ll kill someone OTHER than the one on their knees” bit coming, since it’s a bit of a trope. (Like ‘David protecting Saavik’ from ST3) But I wasn’t at all expecting T’Veen to bite it. I was really hoping she’d come along to any future hypothetical ‘ST: Legacy’ series. :(
They were all essentially red shirts. We knew one of them was going to bite it. Was just a matter of which. If I was caring more I probably would have predicted it would not be they guy on his knees for that very reason. But as I said, I didn’t think that hard at it because I knew it didn’t really matter. The point was one of them would bit it.
I agree, I wanted to see more of T’Veen as well, but they had to kill someone who we at least knew a little and it was no way Seven or Shaw was dying.
“Picard called Data “Commander” raising the question: Is this resurrected Data the same person, and does he still have the commission rank in Starfleet held before the original android was destroyed in Star Trek: Nemesis?”
He is in a Starfleet uniform in the observation lounge, but no pips …
It’s not much of a question. If Starfleet determines him to be the same man — as Picard clearly does — than he’ll be commander. They just haven’t gotten him the insignia yet in all the craziness.
Not much different from when Spock came back in STIII. He’s essentially a clone, to some degree, and they were happy to give him his old rank back.
Picard is retired but is still called by rank. There’ll be paperwork to be filed if Data wishes to rejoin Starfleet. Paper shufflers still exist in the 25th century.
Kirk was still addressed by his rank in Generations on the Enterprise-B despite being retired.
There is a difference between being addressed as an honorific and as a question of authority
The scene with Spot broke through my remaining emotional boundaries with this series. As a cat owner, that’s all I needed.
The scene around the conference table was magnificent. It felt like we were watching the actors catching up before the director called “action.” Knowing how much the cast loves one another helped make that scene feel even more momentous. I don’t know if this would have felt as special had they done S3 from the start, but PICARD finally became STAR TREK in my heart this season, and that conference room scene was like picking up where “All Good Things” left off. Everything that follows is gravy at this point.
Nicely said.
Hey, this was a big episode for you, DataLore.
Calling it now, the face Villain is Borg queen, you can hear her voice, sounds like Alice krige in the ready room clip for next week
Someone speculated that these Borg Queens are like the Bene Gesserit from Dune and someone born an Male Human Borg King… Well, in that light it could make sense
Since the Queen’s remains from First Contact were in storage at Daystrom I thought the same.
I assume everybody here saw the Episode. I just saw some 3min Clip
oh boy.. is that TRON 2.0 Music when the barrier between Data and Lore fell?
Shaka, when the Wall fell. Data and Lore together on Tanagra. Data and Lore alone on the Ocean. Data his Arms wide. Then Lore’s Wall fell
Thank you for the TRON 2.0 Easter Audio Egg
Was it Tron music? I got a huge Tron vibe from the scene itself. I don’t know Tron 2.0 music.
These Instruments tone gave me heavy Tron Vibes, but my brain also said Mass Effect “Galaxy Map” (a bit faster) is at play, too. It sound very familiar to me
But i once said again and again, Mass Effect and Starfleet have many things in overlapping common things. Perhaps Picard Season 3 got a bit inspired of their Story telling
You heard that, too? Yeah, definitely a bit of “Tron: Legacy” there.
A return to form.
But I’ve got to admit, the first 10 minutes were kind of annoying. Vadic is a great bad person. But because they had to reiterate that Jack is going crazy and he has super powers, it was like “c’mon let’s get through this, so we can get to the actual story”.
I will say because Worf left at the end of episode 6, I had totally forgotten about him and Raffi. So, when he popped up I went nuts.
Data and Lore’s battle for life felt very Alternative Factor-ish.
It feels good that Picard is leading the crew.
The nostalgia nods were great.
Deanna at the end of the episode was great.
2 nostalgia nods from one thing. 1. Jack’s device looked like the detonator from return of the jedi. 2. The device looked like the photon detonator that you could use at the Star trek Adventure at Universal Studios in the very early 90s. For those that don’t know, you dressed up in the monster maroons and recorded a video of yourselves serving as command trainees on the Enterprise with Dr McCoy, Scotty, Chekov, and Uhura.
I agree with all of this as well. I think basically everything worked in this episode except the whole “I know a secret about you Jack, do you want to know? I can tell you right now, but I won’t.” It just felt exhausting and clearly just padding for time. And then of course she never told him lol. It felt ridiculous.
But everything else was great IMO. I didn’t like how the officers were being mowed down but that’s part of the drama. I really liked both the Data/Lore and Riker/Troi stuff and it did feel great to see everyone in the same room.Oh and Seven’s ‘get off my bridge’ line was great. I actually didn’t see where any of that was going until it happened.
And yeah I remember the Star Trek Adventure show at Universal Studios lol. I think I saw it the very first time I visited there and had a great group who acted in it.
RE: the universal studios experience, I still have a copy of mine!
ARMUS OR
THE PAH-WRAITS!? 🥴
I’m sure hoping it’s neither. If it has to be one of those, I’d hope for pah-wraiths.
Unless it is some new entity, a Pah-wraith seems the most likely to me. Perhaps another Orb is to be revealed.
Agreed! Pah-wraith is my choice too.
Perhaps it’s some Q “leftover” Spirit and, no not our Q. Just someone other…. okay. I am sorry for this Bad Suggestion
Pah Wraiths were soundly destroyed by Sisko’s sacrifice in the Fire Caves. To bring them back would make Sisko’s sacrifice worth nothing and ruin the ending of DS9.
No, they were imprisoned, not destroyed. Also, Sisko did not die. He was taken into the Celestial Temple with the Prophets. Yes, he sacrificed his family life, though since his fate has not really been made clear, the extent of that sacrifice is also unclear.
No Pah-wraiths without The Sisko please.
I agree, though I regret this is unlikely in a series called Picard.
I regret I admit it’s becoming an ever more likely possibility that it’s Armus.
I’m still holding out for The Face being a Kelvan. When Jack had that vision in the transporter room as the Titan crew was being evacuated, I swear the dematerializing crew briefly transformed into Kelvan warriors.
Has it ever been explained why it’s called raktajino – is it supposed to be a Klingon word that just coincidentally sounds like cappuccino? Or was it some sort of Standard bastardization of the Klingon name.
This has mildly bugged me, intermittently, for 25 years.
Maybe it was like the silk road. Klingons acquired Shakespeare and coffee beans through trade with other races that traded with earth in the 22nd century. And it got all just mixed into their language over the next 250 years.
This episode really put me on the edge of my seat the entire time, this season has done a far better job sustaining tension than any other season of Star Trek. By the end of the episode I was leaning in for the big reveal and adoring the way Deanna was brought in to move the revelation forward. But of course, it had to end like a cliffhanger and I felt like we actually made no story progress at all. So indeed that is frustrating, but the fact I feel this invested now is a big part of the success of this story. The most important part of this episode was really getting Data back in order which ended up being the heart of the episode, I didn’t expect to get so emotional over a Spot cameo! Less emotionally effective for me was the Deanna/Riker reunion, they seem to rewrite why Riker ran away and added some confusing details about un-wanted memory suppression. I think where the episode didn’t work as well for me is in the writing for the character voices, the screenplay stuff. Worf was never that out of touch with social norms, Deana never really talked like Marina, Data was never that emotional…so many of those character moments didn’t seem written by people who knew them which is out of character for the season as a whole. This episode just felt a little creaky, but the episode was well made and acted, Vadic and Jack really carried this one in particular. I also have to complain about the visuals for the Data/Lore heaven, they really REALLY skimped there and I found it visually terrible to the point of distraction. Still, I love this episodes like all the others. Honestly this is the first season of modern Star Trek where I re-watch every episode several times, I haven’t done that since DS9.
This season (like the others before it) will, from this day forward, be binged watched. (Frankly, I’d *probably* prefer that Paramount dropped all the episodes at once, but that’s a separate debate.) Mere months from now, no one is going to care whether the Big Jack Reveal takes place in hour six, seven, or eight.
Hell, in BETTER CALL SAUL, we didn’t learn of Saul Goodman’s ultimate fate until the very final episode.
I sort of feel like Picard and the rebooted Quantum Leap face the same challenges. You go from a beloved episodic format in both original series’ to something more serial, it’s a difficult transition. But I think this season of Picard is great, even if some episodes are slower than I’d prefer. And there simply has to be a DS9 character to come. Hard to imagine a story on the changelings without one.
It’s really too bad about Rene. He’d have been a given, i’d think.
Yes! I completely agree with that!
Me too. So then if Face is a pah-wraith (my working theory) then who knows most about the Kosst Amojan and might cameo: Kira Nerys. In fact, were the Prophet and Pah-wraith who simply departed in The Reckoning ever accounted for?
Dude I’m literally finishing season one of the new Quantum Leap now. I was so excited about that show, I binged the original before it started; had not watched a single episode since it ended back in the 90s.. But I lost interest in the new show and stopped watching it by episode 10. I recently decided to dive back in now that it’s over for the season. But I agree, its missing the spark of the original where the focus was on the individual stories. Now they mostly feel like filler with the big mystery driving the show. But I am enjoying it more at least.
I feel like Jack Crusher is quickly becoming a bit like his brother Wesley. The wunderkind that the plot always revolves around and that solves everything. I wonder if Jack and Wesley will ever meet in the last 2 episodes. I mean technically Wesley Crusher is the only series regular that didn’t appear this season yet or wasn’t mentioned in any significant way.
he did appeared in the end of Season 2
I would be happy to never mention Wesley ever again. But the fact that yet another son of Beverly has developed amazing abilities… That’s just too close to Wesley. And yet another reason I’m just not interested.
To be fair, Wesley was just super smart, plenty of people like that IRL. There was nothing metahuman about him..unlike Jack
The progression led the audience to conclude that he was way beyond “super smart”. He had some sort of ability to link with some sort of weird force, universe, whatever it was the Traveler was so thrilled with.
But the Traveler said in the very first season he thought Wesley had a gift of some kind and that’s when Picard started giving him more attention and eventually a role on the bridge. And we know that ultimately led to Wesley being a Traveler himself.
Also worth remembering that Crusher fell for John Doe in “Transfigurations,” who also underwent a similar metamorphosis.
I’ve about given up on seeing someone from DS9 at this point. And also now, I don’t want any surprise cameos to be Jeffrey Combs.
LD is currently running so it won’t be agimus. Shran was 300 years in the past, it won’t be him unless it’s just a hologram. Penk is too much of a deep cut from a bad episode of Voyager, and besides if he’s even still alive, he’s very likely in the Delta Quadrant still. Tiron is also a deep cut from a bad episode, just DS9 this time. Brunt doesn’t fit into this story anymore. So it would have to be Weyoun. Who would very likely die. And I’m so so tired of seeing Weyoun die. So yeah I just don’t want to see Jeffrey Combs in this. I’ll be content with agimus in LD.
No Combs cameos?! Heresy! There’s always room for Jeffrey Combs. ;)
Agreed, none of his characters would really fit into this. I wouldn’t have minded seeing him in a little supporting role. He could have been a crime lord on M’Talas, or an officer on Daystrom Station. Not needed, obviously, but I always have fun when he’s on screen.
I’d absolutely love a new character of his. Either of those would have been great.
I would love to see Weyoun again and if they do bring him back, I’m sure it wouldn’t be to kill him off.
This is a finale to TNG, not DS9. I see zero need for anyone from DS9 to show up, maybe excepting O’Brien, who was a semi-regular on TNG.
For a TNG finale it’s sure using a lot from DS9 so shove off and let people hope to see people from it.
To channel Margaret Thatcher, this lady’s not for shovin’. And to channel Mike Lindell, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
Cold blooded that Picard didn’t save Beverly a seat next to him at the conference table. He saved one for Data!
I see what you did here (you won’t sell me on coincidence) :
“Never Gives Up In ‘Surrender'”
Every time I see that I think about the Corey Hart song Never Surrender, not gonna lie.
This episode was better than last week’s, but on reflection still feels like there is some stalling going on by the writers.
Could ep 7 and 8 have been condensed into one episode? Maybe, but that would have taken away a lot of the tension of having the hero ship taken over by the enemy and its crew made captive.
The Data and Vadic arcs being resolved was a nice get.
Jack’s issue still being unresolved is a little annoying, but as it seems to tie in directly to what the big bad is planning for the anniversary celebration, maybe the reveal of what he is dealing with has had to be held back, for plot and suspense purposes.
As our characters haven’t really moved from square one in finding out who the real enemy is and what their plan is, these last two episodes are gonna have to deliver quite a bit of information, paired with third act action, to get everyone up to speed and allow the finale to be as satisfying as I’ve heard it is.
It sort of seems like Marina Sirtis is just playing herself now.
After the version of Troi she was obliged to play in Nemesis, I’d rather this.
Plus, I intensely dislike the accent they imposed on her in TNG because they didn’t want East London.
Well… They can’t all be winners. Again it’s not sucking but this one was really just… Meh.
Hopefully they can pull something out of their hat with the last two. But even if they don’t stick the landing it will still be the best thing SH has ever produced. Admittedly that’s a pretty low bar but still.. Progress?
After these past four episodes, I’d say Strange New Worlds season one is definitely in the conversation of “best Trek SH has produced.” And if they don’t stick the landing, then I think ST:P3 and SNW will be, at worst, “tied” for best.
I’d definitely go with SNW at this point, flawed as it is. It’s the closest we’ve come to TOS season 2 since 1968, in spirit, if not quality.
Sorry, dumb question: who/what is SH?
Secret Hideout. The name of the production company behind all the nu-Trek.
thanks!
If you follow this comment section with any regularity, you’ll quickly realize that ML31 mentions them in almost every single post. They are his arch nemesis. Perhaps Alex Kurtzman is his estranged father.
You lost me at “nu-Trek”.
Sorry. I use nu-Trek to refer to the post Berman stuff. The Berman stuff I refer to as new Trek. It’s just a way to differentiate the two more than anything else.
The Matalas boosters are referring to 90s Trek as the Berman-verse. What?!!
And for some reason the thing wouldn’t let me edit my comment I wanted to add it’s not a dumb question. I was just too lazy to write the whole thing out again. I should have kept doing that as not everyone may be aware.
I have noticed that editing goes away immediately if someone replies to your comment. (I’m sure people have known this for a while, but I’m like ML31, finding this out recently)
thanks for that consideration :)
we throw a lot of initialisms around, and while I’m a loooong time Trekkie (I remember watching first run TNG: Best of Both Worlds Pt.1. when I was in kindergarten) I’m absolutely a newb at chatting on boards. Working from home and having trek that I enjoy again has changed that :)
I think a fumbled landing would maybe knock it down from “best” to “one of the better.” For what it’s worth, I’m a fan of LD (despite being very skeptical beforehand) and SNW. To me, those two are doing more of what I want out of Trek: telling stories which have a moral conflict at the core, and overcoming that problem with teamwork, trust, and a diversity of skills. Then they learn something about themselves and move on to the next thing.
I think PIC S3 has the latter half of that equation, but instead has a mystery box at the core. That’s not a fatal flaw in and of itself, but it lacks the broader emotional stakes that would really kick this up to the next level.
I agree. I think both LDS and SNW are some of the best Trek we had in years, but I understand why others may not like them as much. And you just mentioned another reason why I like them, especially compared to the others because it isn’t a lot of mystery box stuff. Even Prodigy did tons of it. I’m not saying its bad (and PRO is still my favorite out of the new shows), but its nice to have 1 or 2 shows that just tell a story without everything being a season long mystery or half the cast is keeping a secret of some kind.
We knew this was going to be a big factor with this season especially given the other two. I think for the most part, it’s been successful but it does feel a little over done in some parts, especially Jack’s arc.
Agreed. I think that this is as successful as a mystery box can be. It isn’t inherently a bad thing, but I think needs more support in the form of good writing and character work. This season of PIC is really giving us that element, so I’m willing to go along with the central mystery a bit more. Just to pick a random example of things going in a different direction, compare with DIS S2’s Red Angel. I felt like that mystery got re-written so many times before the central antagonist turned out to be a totally different AI thing…
Glad you’re enjoying PRO! I watched one episode and bounced off it hard. For me, the animation style just wasn’t my cup of tea, and I don’t really like seeing kids thrust into positions of power. Tangent: when I was a young teen and the Harry Potter books were coming out, I was like “I’m not gonna read this. I don’t wanna see any kids getting magic powers.” I’ve kind of always been a curmudgeon at heart. Still, that’s just my personal taste. Glad it works for you! :)
Well I would at least try and give Prodigy another pass, it is an excellent show. But if it’s not for you, it’s not for you.
And unlike Discovery and the first two seasons of Picard, Prodigy is serialized story telling done right. And the producers had a vision they very well kept and it sticks to landing so well by the end of season one.
I’m hoping to say the same about Picard and based on the reviews out there who saw the entire season, most seem to think it does. So very excited to see how it all ends even with some minor issues thus far.
As good as a lot of this season has been, I can’t help but find the undoing and shitting on the Nepenthe episode to a low point. It’s lead to some great stuff with Riker and a lot of the Riker and Deanna stuff was great this episode, but I feel like there was a way to get that across and tell that story without undoing everything from that episode. I mean, other than the brief mention of her here and in the first episode, would anyone even know Riker and Deanna have a daughter? All either of them have done is shout about the dead son for eight episodes. I just have found a lot of the disinterest in the daughter and the shots at that particular episode to be mean spirited.
That nitpick out of the way, this was great. The Data scenes and the majority of the Riker and Deanna scenes were very moving. The reunion with Worf was a highlight. I didn’t see that coming with Vadic but what a great line before she went out.
The Jack thing is a real misfire though. Why wasn’t this wrapped up at least two episodes ago? Or at least an explanation on these visions?
I did feel like the Riker-Troi situation seemed a little at odds with when we last saw them together in PC S1. They were talking, Deanna said they were healing. There was grief, but they seemed like they were, as a family unit, fundamentally okay. I guess in the intervening year(s), Riker must have had one hell of a backslide.
I have to agree about Kestra. I didn’t expect to see the actress but did they mention where she is or even safe?? It’s bizarre she wasn’t even referenced or that they are worried that she could be worried about them since her mother was abducted and everything.
No, all I caught was them saying they were worried about leaving her orphaned if they died.
Matalas gave an interview today where he said their idea is that she’s away at some high school version/early admission thing at Starfleet Academy and it didn’t fit into the episode in an organic way to bring this up. That seems to go against what they said earlier in the season where Riker implied she was still at home since he said she needed a break from him, but whatever.
I just assume the show wasn’t that interested in that character, which fine, we’ve already seen in the series and she is younger than the other kids. I assume they’ll include her if and when they do the Legacy show everyone wants now. But overall, I think it’s just like the Raffi and Seven thing where Matalas didn’t expect online pushback on it, so he’s coming up with these answers and giving them in interviews instead of putting the simple answers into the show.
She’s in high school now and at a border at Gordonstoun.
Hey, there’s a new series idea for Kurtzman. :)
If she had been at Gordonstoun (poor lass), she’d have graduated already. (Lulu Wilson who plays Kestra is now 17.)
Besides, progressive parents like the Riker-Trois will have sent her to Bryanston.
Well, I continue to be impressed. Not the best Trek out there, but I think it’s obvious that kind of no matter how it goes, this season of PIC will be remembered as the good one. Even if it doesn’t exactly stick the landing, it has been good enough so far. I think this season may be better than any of the TNG movies. I’d have to give it some more thought, but I’m leaning that way.
Stray thoughts time!
I’ve generally liked the pace of the season, but I definitely agree that Jack’s mystery box is long overdue for resolution. Or, if not outright telling us, at least giving us some more clues. I’ve got a pretty good amount of canon rattling around my head, but unless I’m missing something, there haven’t been many breadcrumbs. I’d love a little more pointing us in a direction. If the episode had ended with a face, a name, a voice, or something, I feel like it would’ve been better. I’m still excited to watch next week’s episode, but instead I could be hyped.
I think Picard’s dig at Geordi’s taste in wine was meant to be seen as a running joke between them. Picard is French after all. They are known for being wine snobs ;)
Two more episodes. The fleet will be saved. The captured Starfleet members will be rescued. The rest of the villains will be foiled….and our heroes will sail off into the sunset, going their own ways.
Did I miss anything?
Depending on what the reveal of “Jack’s deal” is, there’s still the matter of Picard’s relationship with him (and Beverly, for that matter). At the end of the day, this is still Star Trek: Picard, so, they will probably want to pay off the line he says in episode one, “I am not a man who needs a legacy.”
Red Eye Jack heads off to Starfleet Academy, with Jean Luc telling Riker “That’s my boy”!!
This is so incredibly possible I feel like you should put money on it.
I’ve been half-convinced since the beginning that Picard will give his golem body up for his son’s survival.
Now we have a new Data with Soong’s memories integrated, we have person who could reset the golem to receive Jack’s consciousness.
It would seem to be the natural conclusion of the cycle that began in season one.
That’s true but you just described every Star Trek story ever lol. That’s just story telling 101. The good guys will always win the day nearly every time. The Federation has been around 250 years at this point and it has never lost a single war in all that time. It came close with the Dominion war but everyone knew the Federation would win lol.
But TNG, especially early on, was often bad for last-minute, too-speedy resolutions.
But what does that have to do with his point? This is how most books, TV and movies ultimately works. Everybody lauds Empire Strikes Back because the bad guys sort of won, but everyone also knew the conclusion was going to flip that instantly. If the Empire won again, then it’s something to talk about lol.
Yeah Starfleet will win the day. It’s not Star Trek otherwise.
The fans are expecting a satisfying ending. Remember how horrible the endings to Xena and Game of Thrones were?
So, I agree with all the positives here as well. There’s a lot to like.
Having said that, I found myself several times thinking “OK there’s only 2 episodes after this, let’s go!” It feels like there’s not much time to plausibly resolve everything at this point.
Having said that as well, I realize it’s all about how they finish, so I am still optimistic; they’ve earned that.
Another great episode of this great, great season.
This is the first ep I didn’t like this season. The Data stuff was fantastic. Spot!! Everything else, big thumbs down. The random killing of crew (and the bald science officer :( ) for literally no good reason. Violence for sake of shock, not to do anything for the plot, is not something I like to see in Trek. And they (the writers) have Shaw barely reacting to his crew getting murdered. Boo!!! They should have let him take down *Vadic.
And so much for Worf being passive lol. He goes and vaporizes the knocked out / killed enemy bodies. Like wtf. I hope the last 2 eps are better (I feel like they will be).
*Also I guess there’s a big door at the front of the bridge?
“Violence for sake of shock, not to do anything for the plot, is not something I like to see in Trek.”
And Eyeball has entered the chat.
Idk what that means. I’m assuming based on the usual comments on this site that it’s a vague insult.
I mean, did you object to a similar scene in Star Trek III? The DS9 episode where Worf was forced to fight all those Jem’Hadar to the death?
The sight of screaming ensigns being mowed down by Vadic’s thugs while she smiled was far more sadistic than those examples, or anything else seen heretofore in the franchise. Come on.
Rubbish. Some examples off the top of my head:
– Multiple crewmembers getting Borgified in FC (including the infamous Ensign Lynch)
– Multiple crewmembers getting incinerated during the final battle in TUC (while Chang quotes Shakespeare)
– Various crewmembers getting hacked/bludgeoned by batleths in “The Way of the Warrior”
– Picard nearly getting choked to death by *Data*, also smiling sadistically, in “Power Play”
– Uhura getting brutalized in “Space Seed” and “The Gamesters of Triskelion” (and that was in the 1960s; it would have been more graphic today).
Frankly, as jarring as it may be, I give Matalas credit for giving us a *realistic* depiction of what these ship takeover scenarios would be like, as opposed to the kabuki theater of “Rascals” or “Acquisition.”
I mean, what do you think the real-life USS Indianapolis or Shinyo Maru incidents were like during WWII, or the USS Pueblo during the Cold War?
Most of your examples are actually rather tepid depictions IMO. I find FC to be pretty weak brew, it took me a decade or more to even warm up to the point of being able to enjoy the movie, and in retrospect I think it is the ‘grindy’ sound of the score that hurts it for me (heresy, I know, to knock my alltime favorite composer, but honestly, except for one cue in NEM and one in AIR FORCE ONE, I find final-decade Goldsmith to be lesser work.)
I don’t even remember that incident from POWER PLAY, but I do remember feeling horrified in that ep by the way “O’Brien” regards his family. TRISKELION’s stuff is off-camera, probably mandated by the times, and was rough, but I found Khan’s mistreatment of Mcgivers as more harrowing personally.
I don’t understand your bringing in real-world incidents to the discussion either, that seems very much to be apples and oranges. But if you’re going to do that, then why not go to the head of the class and cite Lt.Calley? And for separate but equal time, Pol Pot?
I still think it’s the Borg after the way that Vadic had that stifled laugh when she walked by Seven and Troi calling the darkness “ancient”. Plus, who else could it be at this point? If it isn’t the Borg then I’m beginning to think that it might be Armus as he was very old and also not a “solid”. Maybe Vadic and her people tried to create a link with him?
idk. Other changelings? The Borg are in fact solids. And changelings are judgemental donkeys. Except for Odo.
I agree that it’s Borg. Remember Shaw’s line earlier in the series about the real borg still being out there? Why would they include that if Borg have no involvement?
And then the aforementioned comment by Vadic that Seven be there when they were talking about Jack’s secrets.
And remember Jack is the son of an ex-Borg.
And she said something about it being fitting that Seven was there to see it. Something Borg-related makes the most sense at this point – and there’ve been plenty of Borg references already this season. I’m tired of the Borg, but I’d be happy to be surprised…
I think that data is called “commander” because those with the rank of lieutenant-commander are called “commander” for short.
I’m so glad Vadic (aka bad hair day) is gone. She was really pissing me off in this episode. I’m glad Data beat Lore at his own game, but I was disappointed that Tasha’s holographic portrait was the only thing we’ll see of Denise Crosby (unless Sela makes an appearance in the final two episodes). They need to show us what’s behind that door already. I was hoping they would have in this episode but they kept edging us to the last minute and didn’t leave us satisfied. Also, they need to bring back those “Next time on…” at the end of every episode.
I literally forgot Yar was shown until you mentioned it lol. It went by so fast. Crosby said we would see some of Yar. I thought it would be something a bit more like seeing her in full holodeck form but nothing more than a minute of screen time. But it was fine, I never expected anything beyond this sort of thing, especially since Crosby never said she was in the season herself.
Denise Crosby chose to leave TNG more than 30 years ago. Her character is dead. The holographic memento, and its role in helping Data overcome Lore, was perfect and all that’s needed.
Yeah agreed. And they only said we would see an appearance of her. I forgot about that until we saw her in the episode.
Not only that, but even Crosby herself said she was very pleased by that moment, without a hint of resentment for not appearing.
And then Terry responded by asking if she wanted to reprise the role of Sela if they got a spin-off show…
Amazing episode. Best show on TV right now. I agree it’s taking too long to find out the deal with Jack, though. But the Data/Lore stuff, Data & Geordi, Troi & Riker, the scene with all 7 at the table, Seven’s line “ get off my bridge,” and Worf just being sensational more than makes up for it. Love this show so much.
Totally. It’s such a shame, the Jack dragging is holding it back from greatness. It’s a credit to the actor that his storyline is even tolerable.
Also am I the only one who thought Seven’s “Get off my bridge” was a nod to Janeway? Felt very much like a Janeway line (yes, I’m aware that Picard has said it too, but the delivery felt very KJ).
You weren’t the only one. Seven was totally channeling Janeway there.
I was waiting for a real punny one-liner before she released her into space. Something like…
“Goo back to hell!”
“These times they are a changeling” :(
So, this is how is ends (presumably) for Vadic: the ignominy of being flash-frozen, T2-style, only to be smashed into a billion pieces (GENERATIONS champagne-style) against the prow of her own soon-to-be-destroyed warship.
Just spitballing here, in the aftermath of watching screaming ensigns getting massacred on a Star Trek show while their tormentor smiles and waves her ectoplasmic arms as if she were conducting a Mozart concerto. But if the producers had to see fit to place a Dr. Mengele figure at the Daystrom Institute to motivate their villain, wouldn’t it have been more interesting to make her at least somewhat sympathetic, to the extent that she took care, even in furtherance of her goals, not to inflict the sort of wartime cruelties that she was forced to endure? Or is that ambiguity too much too expect of Trek, or the audience, when we need to get to Picard’s character growth, the reunion feelies, and all the fan service?
I especially regret the missed opportunity for Amanda Plummer, who is super-talented and was denied the magnificent Shakespearean banquet of ham that her father enjoyed in the Trek franchise a generation ago. (Though as Kevin Martin pointed out in an earlier thread, it’s an odd sensation to pity someone who likely made more money for a months’ work than I have in this decade.) In any case, good news for Nero: you may now have been displaced as the most one-note, predictable baddie in the history of the Trek franchise.
Well put. I thought last week was a step in the right direction by finally giving us her backstory, which Plummer played to the hilt. This week, however, slid back to monologuing and mustache-twirling.
I did appreciate her final line though.
If we’re going to be honest with ourselves, all of Treks antagonists have been one-note, predictable baddies. Even Khan. WOK’s saving grace wasn’t that Khan was a brilliantly written bad guy, but that Shatner and Montalban both ran with the ham.
Nope, sorry; I couldn’t disagree more. It’s just a matter of historical record that one of the things that distinguished TOS from its space opera predecessors was the way it dealt with its antagonists. Characters like the Horta, the Gorn and the Romulan Commander were treated with nuance and depth, and on occasion our heroes had to concede that they were the ones in the wrong. This was not so much the case in the movies, which is one reason behind the oft-expressed opinion that Trek really works best on television. As to Khan, I’ll just note that I agree 100% with Gene Roddenberry’s opinion that he was a far more interesting character in “Space Seed” than TWOK, except that Montalban luckily had the chops to pull it off. Plummer did likewise, but could have given so much more to the role if only the producers had asked more of her than that she smirk while twirling a figurative mustache.
When Plummer went low, it was very effective. That ‘I beg your pardon’ line to Kirk after the latter namedrops Hitler was right on target.
I’m thinking if Frakes had directed the whole run, you’d have seen her character in a slightly better light, though still at the mercy of the writing. Then again, he might not have given such a nuanced and fun performance.
Sybok? Chang? Dukat?
I’ve enjoyed this season, but I agree that the mustache twirling is what’s held it back from being legendary; the same was true of the incestuous Romulans in season one.
They may not have been one-note, but Sybok, Chang, and Dukat were three of the biggest mustache twirling villains, performance-wise. I also don’t think that Vadic is as one-note as people are making her out to be.
Dukat got to be more because he got so much screen time, but at his best he was hamming it up.
Evil as he ultimately turned out to be, Dukat was a far more nuanced character than any of the others mentioned here, which made his shifting relationship with Kira and the rest of the DS9 people so fascinating. Sybok the Laughing Vulcan was such a gonzo concept that it’s hard to even compare it to the others, though I think Luckinbill pulled it off (my issues with that movie are in other places). Chang was definitely a mustache-twirler, just one with much better dialogue than Vadic.
Right, but a lot of what allowed Dukat to be as great as he became was the result of years of stories. That shift in character you talk about was in Season 5. Early on he was quite thin as a character, little more than just the evil Cardassian foil.
Same thing with Damar, but his repeated appearances allowed them to do so much more with him.
Won’t argue, but I still think that even early Dukat was much more interesting and charismatic than Vadic. YMMV, of course.
Perhaps. But I don’t think the gulf is really that wide.
My wife uses ‘attention bajoran workers’ all the time, so yeah, Dukat registered in a big way pretty early on (wasn’t that s3, well before even Worf showed up?)
Could be. I’ll have to schedule a DS9 rewatch one of these days. I literally have not revisited that corner of the ST universe since the finale (which I recall half-liking) aired, all those years ago.
Of course, one of the reasons that Dukat was such a compelling figure was that Marc Alaimo just kicked ass. Even in the earlier role of Gul Macet on TNG, you knew this guy was a keeper
My wife wanted to try starting ds9 from the beginning last month, and against my instincts, I agreed. Sure ‘nuf, we bottomed out just a few episodes in.
I think my preference is to watch the pilot, then the last two eps of s1, the first 3 of s2, and then do some more skipping round through 2 and watch most eps from s3 onward. If we succeed, I’ll probably still wind up seeing a half-dozen or so that I’ve always given up on (more, now that I recall that Ezri Dax shows were duds.)
1st time through, I was disappointed with the DS9 finale, very disappointed — main takeaway at time was that I felt the fire cave showdown was just a rework of the climax to WNMHGB — so I didn’t revisit it for years, at which point I just plain loved it, finding it very moving. (by comparison, I’ve tried watching the finale of B5 three times, and it is just awful Awful AWFUL – JMS had no business directing — and so it is easy for me to consider the end of s4 to be the end of the series.)
At least your spouse didn’t ask you to buy the complete series of Friends on DVD, start with the first episode, run the series to the finale, then ask you to go all the way back to episode #1 and uh…start playing the whole series again. (That became one of our favorite jokes/stories for years.)
If there were any DVDs of LOUDERMILK, I’d happily buy that whole series and watch it straight through again and again. Then (again), there are only 30 of those. Most eps open with Loudermilk verbally abusing somewhat deserving total strangers, and it is at times near-Ellisonian.
We did just start PICKET FENCES again, and it is still very strong, though for a town that hasn’t had a murder in 10 years, the bodies sure do start piling up awfully early … kinda begs the question, WHY now? Just cuz David E. Kelley came to town? Sort of like what Michael Parks’ character has to say to Agent Cooper in TWIN PEAKS: things were normal till you got here, so maybe if I make you go away, things will go back to normal.
The only old series I watch these days for fun would have to be reruns of the 1970s Match Game with Gene Rayburn. And maybe Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. I was able to get Sharon to watch some of those, just to watch her reaction.
I think I’d watch Fernwood2Night or at least try, if I saw it was available. And I’d jump at the chance to see ROOM 222 again (have s1 on dvd, but I think that is the worst season);haven’t seen many of those since first-run because it seemed to get lost away from syndication packages. And I saw 10 minutes of the last episode of BAKERSFIELD PD and have always wondered if what led up to it was anywhere near as funny.
Seriously – has no one noticed the Shrike’s lower hull looks like a Galaxy class Engineering Hull? The deflector is red and not blue but still looks the same.
I know! First episode I was thinking that it was some cobbled-together kitbash of a spaceship
Was this an awesome episode? YES!! And no…
I had a rant today regarding T’Veen’s death. I was so over Trek writers coming up with interesting characters and then killing off the most interesting ones. They did it with Hemmer, and now again with T’Veen. And it was so completely unnecessary too, in my opinion. To me the stakes already were high enough. It literally could’ve been ANY red shirt in that line-up. Wouldn’t have made a difference. She would’ve been brilliant in a future Seven/Legacy series.
Because of that I took a point of. Even after all the glorious things that followed, it still left me a bit annoyed in the end. I’m also not sure if I’m totally on board yet with the new Data. They might have pushed the new-ness a bit too far for my taste, like with the contractions. But the jury is still out. Let’s see where they take him. I still want him to feel like Data on some levels.
Funny enough, the cliffhanger didn’t bother me as much as it did last week, even though it was the same one. But in the end I was fully expecting Pah Wraith Dukat to make an appearance. Can’t wait to finally find out what’s up.
Two more!
I feel similarly about Data 2.0. It may also be a little bit of Spiner fatigue. We’ve seen him play so many Soongs recently that they’re all kind of blending together and being superimposed on this Data. I felt that Lore this episode was kind of off. He always seemed kind of delighted at being the “evil” twin, and enjoyed himself more.
Personally, I would’ve liked to see makeup that was a little more like OG Data. Even just the jet-black hair. Data, at his best, had that curiosity and sense of wonder about him, which I’d really like to see in this new iteration.
Not mad about it though. If Data grows away from what he was, I won’t be too upset about it.
That’s actually totally different from what I was feeling. Every portrayal of the individual characters was spot on. Really impressive. I meant that I kinda wish new Data was still slightly more old Data, just a bit. The use of contractions might be it for me.
Agreed on wanting a little bit more old data. I’d take contractions if he were less able to crack jokes. Even if he’s as human as he’ll ever be, he still needs to learn comic timing.
I guess I’m not too particular about what OG Data I want, but I just want a little bit more of it.
Just occurred to me: Vadic would have been just fine if she’d morphed into a tardigrade. I’ll bet that’s what Odo would’ve done if he’d been spaced.
Yeah. Er, maybe their whole deal with being passable as solids somehow limits what they can form into. I don’t recall seeing any of them becoming inanimate objects, for example.
She would have had to know how to do that, maybe she didn’t. I would tend to agree with the poster Jack, maybe the changes affected her ability to do that.
In my opinion, the strongest episode of the season so far, and it’s been a strong season!
I’ll note that whatever Deanna did at the end seemed not really that different from a Vulcan mind meld, if there had happened to have been a Vulcan character around.
Notably, no longer.
T’Veen, Vulcan and 1/4 Deltan is gone.
Surprising she didn’t have anything to query about Jack.
I’ve lost interest in Shaw after previously being quite impressed.
In the last two episodes, he’s been pretty passive / useless. Seems only to be good at needling a polite Picard & Riker. TNG cast returning has basically made him redundant.
I want to see Shaw be a heroic captain, but he is becoming more and more like Captain Styles. I hope he makes a positive contribution in the last two episodes
“GET OFF MY BRIDGE” worked a lot better here than in First Contact!
They could have ensured his heroic order to blow the turbo lift was audible in episode 7. ADR is made for that.
At least they followed up on that this time.
This was definitely a solid episode and certainly better than last week IMO. The scene with them all around the table again was such a great moment. I never thought we would see it again and here we are. Nothing ever truly dies in Star Trek. Speaking of which, I loved the whole bait and switch with Data and Lore. Until episode 6, it didn’t even occur to me we would even see Data, I honestly thought it was going to just be Lore, just a little more reformed lol. I was fine with the idea but it did feel weird knowing Data wouldn’t be part of the gang only to find out he’s there too. Well done Matalas.
I really liked Vadic but yeah the shtick was getting old so glad she was killed off and cool we haven’t faced (get it?) the real villain yet. But I also agree with others the Jack thing has become tired. Here I was praising Matalas how he’s so good at setting up mysteries but don’t let them linger to exhaustion like so many do in these stories (Dis especially in seasons 2 and 3) and I literally groaned when Jack got to the door and it went to credits. They really should’ve revealed what was behind the door in this episode to push the momentum and have fans more excited but it is what it is unfortunately.
Overall great episode. The season has been really good if still not loving it as others. But it has definitely redeemed this show and seem to have gotten a lot of people back onboard who has been dismissive of the modern era since 2017 and some as far back as 2009. So all positive signs.
Really can’t wait for the final two episodes.
I don’t see it as redeeming of anything. There has been so much damage one decent project is not enough to overcome it. The rot has infected the wood pretty deep. A new coat of paint makes it look good but the underlying problems still remain. It remains to be seen of this is an actual turn of the corner or just a lucky hit.
Definitely some flaws in Nu Trek, but maybe with the evident acclaim and support that some of the more “traditional” offerings have had, we’ll see a course correction in the Kurtzman era.
Then again, we’ve got CW-esque Academy coming, so who knows. Throw enough spaghetti at the wall and some is gonna stick.
To be fair, we do not know what the Academy show will exactly be like. The one thing that Kurtzman has done right was opt for different show types. His problem has been in the execution of those ideas. The Academy show is not inherently a bad idea. It just needs to be in the right hands.
Totally agreed. I’m skeptical about Academy, but I was skeptical about Lower Decks, too. My mind is still open.
TV is also very different now from Berman-era, where we had 4 different Trek shows which, while they had different characters and different themes, were 4 reskins of basically the same show. Even if some were better than others, they had more similarities than super fans might admit to.
AK has at least helped put out 2 wildly different animated shows and 3.5 (giving PIC S3 a half point for being different from S1-2) distinct live action shows, plus those Short Treks and serious movement towards audio dramas. It is good to see storytelling in so many forms, even if I have some qualms about the specific ways that some of those iterations have been done.
Agreed, for the most part. Thematically DS9 stands apart, but the production aspect of all the Berman-era shows is so much of a continuum, right down to the music, lighting, art direction etc. that the sameness becomes stultifying. Say what you will about Secret Hideout’s output, at least the shows all feel very different from one another.
Except the space and spaceshilp VFX, which are godawful in all of them (at least the live-action ones.)
Best tv ship-work was Paul Stader’s Seaview jockeying on Voyage..
For the most part they do feel different. But that is moot if the shows themselves aren’t good. As I’ve said, it was indeed a good idea to have different kinds of shows. The problem has been in execution of the good idea.
Obviously I’m never including you in this lol.
And I’m just speaking in general reading posts from people who had given up on NuTrek until this season. But obviously I’m not speaking about every single person out there, just that there does seem to be a bigger turnaround including people like myself who actually like most of the new stuff but was very down on Picard itself until this season.
But sure some people still think this season suck as all the others, I just think they are more in the minority right now. And yes there are others who likes this season but are still convinced the other shows will still suck after its over.
Yeah that dude would find a way to naysay a cake on his birthday.
I’m thinking most of the people who think Picard 3 sucks are those who are so anti-Secret Hideout that they will just hate everything that is made no matter what. To be fair I’m almost there but not there yet. As evidenced by me liking this season. That said I’m not going to see one decent thing and assume everything is going to get better now, either.
Two weeks from now, this series is going to be binged-watched exclusively. It will make not one iota of difference whether the payoff comes at the end of “Surrender” or the beginning of next week’s episode.
Yeah you can say that about everything today. It still slows down momentum when you’re watching it weekly.
But yes, that’s how binging works, it’s designed to get you click on the next one right away.
Now that you say that I’m thinking this season may have worked better if they released all 10 at the same time like Netflix does. I don’t personally binge but I could catch one or two every couple of days and it might have gone over even better. I’ve never felt that way about the other Trek serialized shows.
I don’t disagree but that would never happen of course. I’m actually shocked Netflix is still releasing entire seasons at once. I thought they would eventually release shows weekly like everyone else.
It would be no problem if it could been watched that way from the beginning… But the way it is presented now it is very frustrating. I was glad S3 turned out to be no to slooooooow like S1 (and Disco S3 &4). but in that case they could have gone one step further. We already saw that red door the last episodes. And those mystery box kept closed until the last 2 episodes already was annoying in Disco S3&4…
Imagine Best of Both worlds ending a few moments earlier where the Enterprise is about to get a message and instead of showing Locutus there is a cut. Ok… what message might be coming? Wait for the next season…
Totally agree, and I actually think that they sometimes consider this stuff when producing it. They know that within 5 years, most of the people who’ve watched it will have binged it after its initial airing.
Deerstalker, not deerskin. :-)
You almost expect them to do a riff on another Archer:
Shaw: I’m…grateful I got to see a literal demonstration of overkill.
Data; Oh, no…..she is the exact right amount of being killed.
Thanks for the great review.
I have to ask: “…the episode was peppered with so many nice little bears…”
I am not familiar with this expression. Can someone help me out? Thanks.
Yes that was the best part of the episode. All of those teddy bears that were everywhere.
In all seriousness: I think that was a typo. Should be beats.
I haven’t like the F bombs in trek, but this one made me lol and I liked it. I’m loving this season, but like others, could do without the constant mystery box. Looking forward to next week.
Agreed. Picard’s F-bomb in the bar was not in character with him, but it worked when Vadic used it
I might argue that it feels not in his character because we’ve spent years not hearing him use it because of TV and PG rules.
But while I’m no prude when it comes to this sort of thing I also think F bombs in Trek just doesn’t feel right. That said, Vadic dropping one did work.
I think it was fine both times. Picard has cursed on screen, there’s a famous one where he swears in French on TNG.
The intense bridge execution scene seemed like an homage to ST3 killing of David. Same line up, same fake out at the end, and same stoic reporting of the death by another officer.
I thought Shaw might sink to his knees, missing a chair (on purpose or an accident?) and say ” You sonofabitch you killed my science officer…and she was a Vulcan too!”