Jonathan Frakes was our guest for the latest All Access Star Trek podcast, In addition to talking about directing the upcoming Strange New Worlds/Lower Decks crossover, the TrekMovie team got his thoughts on the final episodes of Star Trek: Picard and the potential Star Trek: Legacy spinoff.
Convincing Stewart and why season 3 is working
Frakes has previously revealed that he agreed to return for season 3 when showrunner Terry Matalas pitched him on the idea while he was directing in season 2. However, it did take some convincing to get the whole gang together, particularly star Patrick Stewart, who initially vetoed any “reunion.” Frakes shared the story of a key lunch meeting when it all came together:
Patrick–because he had made it so clear that he didn’t want Picard to be a Next Generation show–Terry took Patrick and me to lunch and explained this story about Beverly having been in Doctors Without Borders and needing to be rescued. And then Picard calls his old buddy Riker who’s not having a great time in his marriage. And I think in that lunch, Patrick realized there was a good story to tell. And the word “reunion” is what I think was sticking in his craw. What Terry’s done is each character has earned its place… So it’s a reunion just by definition, but it is not certainly, “Let’s get the gang together and sing the old songs.” It’s a new story.
Season 3 has been performing well with fans and critics, with many pointing to his performance as a key factor. Frakes gave his assessment of why he thinks the new season is working:
I think that a lot of is informed by the 20 years it’s been since Nemesis when we all got to play these characters. That’s a lot of age to put on an actor and on a character. And whether it was conscious or not, in the first season that they created the storyline in which Riker and Troi had moved to Nepenthe with the hope that their son would be cured, and then he died. I don’t know if they had the long game in mind, but that couldn’t have been a better setup for including Riker in Picard’s quest to save Beverly and then ultimately find out that they have a son. So the weight of those scenes in which Riker tells Picard, “Dude, my son is dead. Yours is not. You just found him. Don’t f–k this up.” The scenes are so powerful and so relatable… That’s why this I think is resonating is because we’re telling stories that we that are emotionally assessable. I think that the age of the actors, the age of the characters, and the conflict that Terry has not been afraid to put into the show that Roddenberry had resisted for so many years. Riker and Picard are in conflict. Troi and Riker are in conflict… So I think there’s a relatability and the other element that is I think working so well for us is the levity. The Riker/Worf and taking the piss out of Worf, and Worf is now a pacifist. That stuff is great.
Wanted more Ro… holding a grudge with Shelby
This season has featured the return of a number of other recurring guest stars from The Next Generation, including Michelle Forbes as Ro Laren in “Imposters.” The focus in that episode was the relationship between Picard and Ro, however, the character also had a lot of history with Riker in TNG. Frakes admitted that he wished he could have played with some of that on Picard:
I did, I wish [there was a moment with Riker and Ro]. We did–there was a look that I think was not quite clear, but it became very much [about] Ro and Picard. I wish she’d been there for a couple of episodes, to be frank.
“Vox” featured the return of Elizabeth Dennehy playing Admiral Shelby, a character who was in conflict with Riker in TNG’s “Best of Both Worlds.” In this case, Shelby appears only via viewscreen, but Riker did get in a sarcastic line about her. Frakes appreciated that bit of picking up on their history, saying I thought it was great. He really knows how to hold a grudge.
Enterprise-D made them feel young again
The latest episode also featured the rebuilt Enterprise-D, with the TNG crew coming onto the bridge and settling into their old stations. The actor talked about the impact it had on the cast, with some fun details:
You can imagine how emotional it was. We walked on the set and we had our moment… But one of the most Next Gen aspects of that experience of being back on the Enterprise-D was when we were all jammed in the elevator and knocking each other off their marks and taking the piss out of each other, accusing other people have farting. It was as if we had just gone back to that rambunctious, stupid, childish behavior that we all had in 1987. It was great!
Finale clues leading to Star Trek: Legacy
Frakes was wary of giving out spoilers for the season (and series) finale, but offered this:
That’s good news for characters returning, including Riker. Even before season 3 arrived, Frakes told TrekMovie he was hoping to return to the character of Riker. During the podcast chat, he gave an update on how he feels about the buzz around the Star Trek: Legacy spinoff idea:
I’m an eternal optimist, but I think given what’s going on on social and trending, it seems to me that somebody’s got to address it. Somebody’s got to admit that this ground is fertile. Is it not?
He also offered some clues about how the season finale sets up the spinoff:
You’ll see that by the end of the show, it’s set up. The legacy characters–the two LaForges, Worf’s got a kid, Riker and Troi have a daughter who’s brilliant, and Jack Crusher is a brilliant character. And he’s on the bridge now. Jeri Ryan is there as a captain. Everybody loves Shaw. There’s a lot of the pieces of the puzzle for the Legacy show, in my humble opinion.
Frakes did mention Captain Liam Shaw, even though the character appeared to have been killed off in “Vox,” but maybe there is still a role for him to play. The ship has a holodeck, right?
PurpleStride with Jonathan
The full interview with Jonathan Frakes can be heard in the latest episode of the All Access Star Trek podcast.
In addition to Star Trek: Picard, Jonathan talks about his involvement with “Trek Against Pancreatic Cancer,” part of the Pancreatic Cancer Action Network’s upcoming PurpleStride event taking place in cities all across the country on April 29. He is joined by fellow Trek vets Armin Shimerman, Kitty Swink, and John Billingsley. They are looking for fans to join in the walk and contribute, with a goal of raising $90,000 for their Trek team.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
If Shaw stays dead then Seven becomes the default captain of the Titan, no?
Starfleet will have a lot of openings after episode 10. Seven’s resume will look great compared to all of the ensigns and lieutenants who will be applying for captain jobs. That said, getting a Seven/Borg related resurrection would fit the Shaw storyline so well that I’m really expecting that. Frakes also seems to think Shaw will be around.
I think he might just have interjected that sentence for fear of spoiling episode 9.
So the one guy they kill off to give us some sense of credibility of real danger — they are going to bring back?
If he stays dead, it’s the most meaningful redshirt death in the history of Trek. If he comes back, he joins a long list of resurrected Trek characters including Picard, Data, and the Enterprise D. We’ll get to see which Matalas prefers Thursday.
Terry Matalas confirmed that Shaw dies a heroic death by the Borg saving the TNG crew. Todd Stashwick posted something on Twitter confirming his characters passing.
They can always bring back Shaw in flashbacks, alternate realities, time travel….or in ‘Jeffrey Combs’ fashion, have Todd play other characters/aliens which would be a treat.
Not necessarily. They might send in a new captain instead.
I’m fine with either possibility, to be honest.
Shaw the hologram in the Ten Forward set, taking over Guinan’s role? XD
Considering they “bulldozed” the Titan set, it’s unlikely. Perhaps another ship, though. I’m thinking the Titan gets destroyed.
If they bulldozed the Titan set, could we be looking at the Enterprise-G?
I’d actually mentioned that before the season started. Most people seemed to think that Paramount wouldn’t want two shows set on two different Enterprises (I don’t agree but whatever).
If it is the G, though, it’s unlikely they’ve built the set, as I doubt they’d construct something like that just for a single ending scene, unless of course, the show has actually been greenlit.
For the time being, they might not need to. I mean, there were no internal sets built for the Kelvinverse Enterprise-A seen at the end of “Star Trek: Beyond.”
They bulldozed the sets because Picard was shot in LA as a part of Stewart’s contract- they don’t like doing these kinds of shows in LA because it’s more expensive (which is why all the other live action Trek shows and various other scifi shows are made in Canada). More than likely it will just be cheaper to have the people in Canada rebuild the set if/when a new show is greenlit since it is a pretty safe bet that any legacy show without the concession to Stewart will likely be shot in Canada along with the rest.
Just because they bulldozed it doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t rebuild it should the need arrise (they likely have saved the set dressing components such as chairs, specific panels etc because even if they never have the Titan-A or that era of set again, some of it can be repurposed- the same way Archer’s “upgraded chair” on Enterprise was the former upgraded chair from Nemesis’ deleted scene (where they finally added a seatbelt)).
Also this Tactical Console behind their Seats can be reused with some other Texture for Romulan Ships. If you look it from the front, it has many similarities with their “Birds” Logos or like some Klingon Birds of Prey
Not disagreeing with anything you said, but the fact that it was bulldozed could at least be a sign that the Titan won’t be sticking around, even if not a guarantee. But that is interesting about Stewart’s contract, I wasn’t aware of that before.
Blass and Okuda have mentioned on Twitter that the key interior fittings of the Titan were packed for storage and shipping.
The set can be rebuilt and upgraded in Ontario. This isn’t a significant barrier.
They had to move and rebuild the new Enterprise set between Discovery season two and the SNW premiere. SNW uses CBS Studios own new soundstages in Mississauga near Toronto International Airport on the west side. Discovery has been at Pinewood at the Portlands far across to the east of downtown.
By the way, in addition to the generally lower costs, better tax incentives, and their own soundstages, the Star Trek productions in the Greater Toronto Area have long term access to the first AR wall in town owned by Pixmodo and WH White. That partnership has now built a second AR wall for short term shooting by smaller clients. It’s notable that Picard didn’t use the AR wall in the end, and one has to wonder if cost for short term access or scheduling were the barriers.
Ah, that’s good news. I was very flummoxed by the wording of “bulldozed.” It seemed like an expensive set, and kind of silly to just destroy it when it could easily be redressed into other bridges, too, even for SNW.
Pretty sure most of the 09/ID sets got shipped north for BEYOND rather than being rebuilt. It isn’t quite the shipping disaster that other components have proven to be in the past (the drydock from TMP barely survived a couple of miles travel from Magicam facility to VFX shooting site, and when years later it got found and shipped to Marin for GEN, only the superstructure, held together by internal wiring, was intact upon arrival.)
There is some Episode in Sevens History on the Voyager with Neelix. But there it was 18 Hours difference, here it can take only 5 Minutes or so..
I no making sense? i am afraid to overstep into Spoilers. So i try to be vague a possible. But Voyager Fans properly would see what i mean
They should have used that with Hugh in Season 1.
Agreed. But if they ever want him back, it’d be easy enough to handwave that Hugh’s own nanobots started healing him up the tut-tutting/revenge yeeting was about what he and the xBs were subjected to or something.
Perhaps the Nanobots here need their original Host alive to keep getting Power.
Some sort of time imagine “Battleangel Alita” what Alita done with some “Lovers” head….
Battleangel Alita is an Manga, Anime and Real Movie. But i do not know if the Movie picked that up
They’re called “nanoprobes”.
Why didn’t they use that on poor Icheb? Were they already all extracted?
Paramount would be nuts not to give Matalas the keys to “Star Trek” now, and let him put a “Legacy” series together given the response to this season.
I just don’t get announcing a (presumably) Discovery-based “Starfleet Academy” while not giving any indication of at least considering more with Matalas or even leaking something to the media about it being “in discussion.” I hope it isn’t a sign of Paramount’s thinking. Maybe the fact Frakes is speaking about “Legacy” as if it’s something that is going to happen might indicate there’s more going on behind-the-scenes that they aren’t talking about publicly.
I’ve enjoyed Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds, but Season 3 of Picard is the first time in a long time that I’ve seen the zeitgeist across the internet genuinely moved and really excited about Star Trek. I hope the powers that be at Paramount build on that and don’t screw up this opportunity.
I think the logistics of building on Picard are more complicated. It was made separately from Discovery and Strange New Worlds in California. I imagine Starfleet Academy will take over a lot of the resources from Discovery and continue to pool them with Strange New Worlds whereas a Picard sequel is a different proposition.
Not so complicated, I think, alastair87.
Paramount is not on board with more Trek in California.
It’s only Patrick Stewart’s conditions and a short-lived state production grant that out Picard’s production in LA.
Not that decisions haven’t been reversed, but they have said that all future series will be made in Toronto/Mississauga.
I don’t think that’s an issue for carrying on a 25th century show though. Fittings can be shipped and actors will work in Ontario.
Matalas helmed 12 Monkeys for 4 seasons in Toronto and environs when the industry was a quarter the size there it is now. He even named a planet Sarnia in Picard season three after the town where a significant part of 12 Monkeys season four was set in an old industrial complex. I don’t see why he couldn’t or wouldn’t do it for Trek.
CBS Studios already has its own 6 soundstages close to the airport in Mississauga. The Toronto-based EPs working on Discovery, SNW and Starfleet Academy literally proposed and delivered the project to open CBS own studio so they wouldn’t need to rely on leasing from others in future. They also have the long term access on the first of the Pixmodo /WH White AR walls in the region.
After all, why give all those jobs to Americans when you can outsource them to Canada!
After the first half season, I was on record saying they should make him a broader creative consultant. After the last 4 episodes though, I am skeptical he will bring anything new to the table. Let’s see how he finishes this out before “handing him the keys.”
Oh stop with setting Matalas against Kurtzman.
Kurtzman has brought the franchise to where it is after taking over an expensive and nearly devastating start with Discovery.
Kurtzman hired Matalas.
I think Matalas is talented and was very pleased to have him brought on board. I also don’t think this season of Picard is his best work (to date).
Greenlight a series that he can champion as showrunner? Great.
Let him take over strategy for the franchise? Not a chance at this point.
Yeah, I am kind of walking back my enthusiasm for Matalas to have any broader role (and I never suggested he replace Kurtzman, that’s nonsense).
But given the weakness of the last half of the season, and how he has sacrificed compelling, well-written story for nostalgia, I’m more hesitant. I want to see how he wraps things up before I’m even ready to say he should get another show.
Finally, some pine with real objectivity over Kurtzman’s role in the franchise.
When Fuller was fired, Kurtzman had to take over the mess and hired Akiva Goldsman who suggested finishing with the new Enterprise, which is a perfect redesign that fits PERFECTLY, for the TMP refit. He fires the initial show runners, season 2 was in part a perfect dry run or pilot for Captain Pike. The pundits who like to whine, point out the two hard disco reboots, but the second reboot was planned along with season 2 so is it really 2 reboots.
Has Kurtzman been perfect? No. But he has churned and pivoted to the point we’re we could have 3 excellent shows running on top of Picard and Discovery.
To me, seasons 2 of Picard and 4 of Disco had some excellent character arcs but kinda dragged a bit. I loved the how they resolved season 4 with a truly alien race vs just another anthropomorphic alien race. However both show were written and crafted during Covid where the writers room collaborated via zoom which is not the same dynamic as having and in person jam session. Anyone who has had a telemedicine or teletherapy session knows it is simply no where near as effective as in person.
I simply think that many of the online pundits, are nitpickers where YouTube and blogging simply gave them a platform to bitch… the more silent majority have all enjoyed Disco and Picard at some level, loved many of the character moments, and went insane for SNW.
I actually miss the Short Treks.
Kurtzman hired Fuller in the first place. Get your history straight. He also didn’t take action against the showrunners till months after the complaints became legion. The fact that it took YEARS to get a halfway decent series (SNW, thus far anyway) and select bits of current PICARD in live-action is a direct reflection on his talents and lack thereof.
Yes, he hired them. But firing without adequate cause would have been a legal disaster.
The thing that Kurtzman has demonstrated is that he can take feedback, learn and adjust.
We don’t see him making the same mistakes repeatedly. That’s fairly rare in the industry.
He says that he’s learned that a show needs a showrunner who’s not just capable but also who has a clear vision of what the show needs to be and champions that.
And we’ve seen exactly that with series after new series. Letting Matalas run with his vision for season three, including a backdoor pilot for another 25th century show is consistent with the strategy.
It’s been successful. Why change?
Jose, I agree with everything you said. Species 10C was an amazing example of just how different an alien species would really be. And how difficult it would be to establish a common language between the our two races.
I also think that the new Treks are all taking on the Federations last bigotry: The genetically enhanced. If you can have augmented X-Borg, and augmented biological androids, and you show that the Illyrians are moral, then why can’t Federation citizens augment themselves. Unlike Khan and his crew, we won’t be using selective breeding and genetic engineering to create a dominant, violent, self-serving master race bent on conquest, so much as improving the human condition. In TOS we had Dr. Miranda Jones, a human born with superior telepathic abilities than Vulcans. And had to train on Vulcan in order to not hear other people’s thoughts. What happened to individuals like her? Did we eliminate them using genetic engineering? All the psychic abilities we subscribe to other races come straight out of human parapsychology, so why not increase them?
Well at the usual speed these things seem to take, we can expect to see a Trek Legacy show sometime in 2028…
….which would still be sooner the Trek XIV hitting the big screen.
Generally I’d agree, but while it did take 3 years from DSC S2 to SNW S1, a lot of that was likely owed to Covid.
But given the enormous response to this season it wouldn’t surprise me if they got something up and running for a release in early 2025.
I suspect if they approved a legacy show it would probably happen in 2026 in order to give the new Academy show some breathing room in 2025 and a symbolic gesture for Star Trek’s 60th anniversary that year.
2026 is definitely realistic, but if they see data that shows massive influx of new subscribers, I could see a situation where they fast track a spin-off.
LOL true. And I don’t even think we’ll see a new Trek movie by 2028 at the way things are going.
You are very excited, which is great. But SNW is the face of the franchise right now — last year for that show was when the zeitgeist across the internet got really excited about Trek.
And this season is fun and emotionally satisfying because of the reunion, but the storytelling is not all that great — it’s still the same issues with Pic S1 and S2 — “Picard Into Darkness” basically. And all that does not inspire confidence to me that a follow-on legacy show which did not involve a sentimental TNG reunion would be all that great.
Odd that he’d call Troi and Riker’s daughter brilliant since we heaven’t heard anything about her and haven’t seen her. I guess he could be referring back to when we saw as a kid that time or we hear something about her in the last episode but still, odd phrasing.
We did see Kestra in season one, and she was brilliant.
Yeah that’s why I mentioned he could just be referring back to when we saw her as a kid since she was brilliant there, both the character and the actress. I just thought it was odd that he framed it like we had a recent example of her brilliance this season. They’ve mentioned her like once cause she was mad at him lol.
Funny also that he’s the only one to remember Alexander since his father sure doesn’t!
I haven’t watched Nepenthe in a couple of years, but was Kestra actually brilliant? I thought her late brother was the brilliant one and Kestra seemed pretty normal, if imaginative (the actress was great.)
Yeah I think he was just calling the actress brilliant, which I agree is weird phrasing considering how long ago that episode was and that they’ve barely mentioned her this season. Maybe she pops up in the finale or we get a mention of whatever brilliance she might now show.
I thought she was supposed to just be a normal kid, even though she did figure out where the synth homeworld was or whatever that was about.
in Season 1 she was already some kind of Wunderkind. How she interact with this Tablet at home. So i bet she took the path of Science. Perhaps “Uncle La Forge” will help her out or his Daughters. Perhaps more the younger one
But, are we and the cast ready for someone similar fate like Wesley Crusher?
Just drop everything else and hand over to the season 3 team.
Also noteworthy is that phrase, “Worf has a son.” Are we about to see Alexander in ep. 10? Whatever transpires next, this season has been terrifically enjoyable.
Dunno. it is no secret that he has one. I think he is at Worf’s Human Forster Parents. i think it was even shown in some TNG Episode. Do not know about some DS9 Episodes
Last time we saw him, he was serving on a Klingon ship, after Worf once again had tried to pawn him off on his foster parents.
Yes, he was at Worf’s wedding to Jadzia Dax the last time we saw him, which was during the Dominion War. We’ll see.
Worf and Ezri talk about him in “Penumbra” and he’d been promoted to weapons officer somewhere.
Surely they haven’t gone to all the crazy (good crazy, to be sure!) lengths they did, and the cost, of recreating the D’s bridge, if it was only going to be used for one and a bit episodes. They just wouldn’t do that, finacially. If the D is somehow part of this Legacy plan they may be concocting right now, I’ll be over-joyed! The Next Next Generation on a familiar ship. And why not? :)
Well, there may be some hints of that, given the fact that the Enterprise-F is being decomissioned early. I’m more along the lines of something like a Neo-Galaxy-class USS Enterprise NCC-1701-G instead.
It’s shame the EntD set is only being used for one episode. Seems almost crazy to create a set just for one episode even if its the finale.
Did they destroy the set I wonder?
No they did not, from what I know. It’s in storage.
I’m perfectly good with the TNG crew riding off into the sunset next week. And taking sequel talk with them.
Yeah, we heard you the first three times.
You’ll hear it a few more times, too. I’m not the only one content to end it on a high note. Assuming they stick the final episode, which is still a big if.
Didn’t Patrick Stewart say, “We could do, another movie!”?
So, maybe it’s not the end, yet.
The truth is, fans can just stop at All Good Things… and that’s it. It is what it is. I’m happy PICARD the show happened. I didn’t even think it may happen a few years ago. Stewart had been quite content to shut down any talk of returning to the role for many years after Nemesis.
Let’s have a show called Star Trek: The Next New Newness, that doesn’t take place on a ship named Enterprise, where none of the characters are related to any legacy characters, where there are no guest appearances by any legacy actors, where they don’t visit any previously visited planets, where they don’t retcon any episodes from previous series, where we don’t encounter Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Bajorans, Vulcans, Borg, etc,. Just reference as little as possible from anything that has come before, but still have it take place nominally in the Star Trek Universe. Everything all new, call it Star Trek and see what people think…
Yeah, and actually I would like to eventually see them reboot the entire franchise from the start with a reimagined 23rd century starship crew to start things out as the first series.
That will likely happen when Captain Pike’s run in SNW ends and it transitions into Captain Kirk taking command.
I would actually love to see that too…but I don’t think they will ever do it because fans are just too tied to the prime universe. It’s why the Kelvin movies failed with hardcore fans IMO.
The irony is that’s why I was so excited about Discovery going into the 32nd century. It’s probably the closest we’ll ever get to doing something completely new and not rely on legacy characters so much.
Boldly going where we’ve boldly gone before.
Possibly because that’s the only places the studio execs will authorize…
…to the detriment of the franchise.
This really should shock no one lol. I never once thought anyone was going to die, not when you can set up possible spin offs and even movies in the future. And also because Star Trek doesn’t really believe in killing off its main characters. One of the reasons it’s the best job security in Hollywood if your name is in the credits lol. Hell, this season they manage to bring back yet another character with Data.
Yes I could’ve MAYBE perceived killing off Picard if Stwart was adamant he was done with the role for good and given his age. But since they did that already in season one, it just feels too redundant even if this time it’s permanent. And I think they want to give him a very happy ending even if we don’t see Picard again after this and not a dour one.
Shaw and Shelby died. That quote didn’t age well.
FWIW, Stashwick was asked on Twitter if there was more of Shaw that we haven’t seen and his response was “watch next week.”
(my suspicion however is that he left a video message for Seven, hence the performance evaluation in the end credits)
Cool — I was hoping they did not do another unfortunate demise of a character that could be a big fan favorite, like the Hemmer and David Marcus kill-off brain-farts.
Yeah, and Ro as well.
He was talking solely about Episode 10, NOT the previous episodes!
Actually Matalas said in an interview if there is a spin off show, Shaw will still be part of it and this was discussing his death in episode 9. Again…it’s Star Trek lol.
Star Trek: Legacy’s first storyline: The Search for Shaw.
LOL, I specifically said main characters. C’mon Phil, you know better than this. ;)
Shaw was meant to die from the beginning just like Hemmer or Lorca. That’s not what I’m talking about at all. Star Trek has only killed off 6 main cast members who was never meant to die in 55 years: Kirk, Spock, Trip, Data, Yar and Dax. Four of those only happened because the actors just wanted out of the franchise. And Spock, Yar and now Data all came back anyway lol. I won’t be shocked if Dax shows up again at some point now that Terry Ferrell says she wants to play her again.
Kirk and Trip were killed only out of special circumstances. And Brannon Braga said if he ever got to do an Enterprise revival the first story he would write was bringing Trip back.
So to think any of the main TNG cast was going to die was really slim to none. It doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but no one would’ve been surprised if they didn’t.
And Matalas stated in Collider after episode 9 aired Shaw would still be part of a spin off show if it happens, so yeah.
And BTW, I’m the guy has no problem with any of these characters dying and staying dead. But it’s always that last part that is hard to nail lol.
I agree with you and get what you’re saying. After seeing the first few episodes, I never thought any of them were dying tbh. If someone was going to die, it would have been an episode or two ago. Sure it could happen in the next episode but I really doubt it with the way things are going. All that about TNG people not making it out safely never sounded like a permanent death to me anyway and now it’s pretty obvious he was meaning Ro and Shelby lol. Shaw was the big death and sacrifice of the season and I’m not even sure that’s going to stick.
You’re right also that Trek is always wary about permanent deaths anyway and undoes most them anyway. Yar died but then came back. They could even bring her back again these days if they wanted to. There’s only Sela’s word that she died. Data and Spock came back. Any Enterprise or DS9 revival would probably bring back Trip and Jadzia somehow.
It’s really just Kirk and that’s more of a special circumstance like you said. If there had been any real way to revive him in a way that made sense, they probably would have done it by now.
For the record, early on I did think one might actually die. Matalas even said on Twitter that not every character is guaranteed to live. I really thought he was preparing us for a big emotional death.
But ONCE they killed off Ro, then I knew what he was doing lol. He was killing off some of the legacy characters, but just the side ones. I knew then all the main characters were safe from that point on. I honestly think he added Shelby just to add to the kill count. It’s literally no different what they did in season one when they offfed characters like Hugh and Icheb. But no way was Seven or Riker ever in any danger lol.
And like you said, I think one would’ve happened by now. People even thought Troi would be the one to die and die early because it had gotten out she wasn’t in that many episodes.
For whatever reason, it seems really hard to kill off a main character and to do it permanently. I know it obviously started with killing Spock off and everyone losing their fucking shit over it at the time, but that was different. Spock had become very iconic even outside of Star Trek and depend on who you ask was the most popular character on the show. And of course the studio was just scared less fans would see the next movie over it. So I get that. But now, it’s like they are afraid to kill off even Quark lol. I always point out that DS9 had a war for multiple seasons and no one died. Yes Dax, but as said for behind the scenes reasons only.And they still found a way to keep the character alive through Ezri. So yeah.
Now maybe Frakes is just misleading us on purpose and Worf gets a huge dramatic scene or something. But I’m not holding my breath.
Except Kirk he stayed dead since Generations. I don’t see them pulling a project lazarus like Mass Effect with Commander Shepard.
I think you’re taking that quote too literally. Frakes was saying none of the main TNG characters will be killed off which, as said, should surprise no one.
And I like that Prime Kirk has become the Uncle Ben of Star Trek lol. And who knows, maybe one day he will be brought back as well, but probably won’t be played by Shatner.
Trek fans literal? Who would have thought it?
I’m not sure. His body is at Daystrom Station and you can hear the TOS era medical monitoring noises coming from his chamber.
He’s done the “Nobody dies” in a couple interviews recently. There was one though where he added a second part to the comment, echoing another show he was on:
“Fact or fiction?”
LOL! This is why Frakes is so loved. ;)
Since it’s clear that Seven is captain… If Shaw survives after all the crap they went through, I think he would ecstatically take up an admiral desk job away from all the space “weird shit” and continue to help out the next next gen crew from the safety of hq. It was clear that directly participating in all that dangerous excitement was never his cup of tea lol
So did Kirk, several times.
But he came back, all but once. And even that is now open to question.
Seven brought Neelix back to life in Mortal Coil.
I love that the TNG crew got to shine. I’ve watched them for so long, it is nice the awesome characters finally got a good action-adventure for them to go on. Suddenly all those hours slogging through that paid off and I even felt nostalga for that horrid TNG bridge when the LCARS came to life.
I see it as Picard Season 1/2 more TNG snoozefest with some AI = life arc that was counter Trek (sorry V’ger, you just needed a better microprocessor)… then Strange New Worlds came out and someone was like “why can’t we do that”.
Then Matalas was like “Hey, you know what is better than TOS, the TOS movies and we throw the Borg on that and use the compromised Picard arc and it will be gold”… and it is gold! Even with David Marcus Picard, it is working!
The whole Picard was compromised by the Borg even validates Season 1/2 in my opinion, everywhere it is strange (he ditches his friends to obsess about AI, I feel you see the Borg influence).
If they destroy enough of the Starfleet that they get a TOS style show where the few ships yet are rebuilding Starfleet, they should have a veteran like Riker as Fleet commander.
We get it you didn’t like TNG.
I liked Picard Season 3, that’s something isn’t it?
I’m amazed he remembered Alexander (unless this is referring to another offspring for Worf).
I am too actually. It’s weird Alexander hasn’t been referenced once on the show yet.
Not really. Long stretches went by on both TNG and DS9 with Worf never mentioning Alexander. I don’t think he was mentioned on DS9 at all until Sons and Daughters, three seasons after Worf joined the show.
Those are not the same as this. It’s a ten episode season only and it’s done. They only have so much time lol.
He was mentioned a couple of times earlier on. He had picture of Alexander in his first DS9 episode, and I think Obrien asked about him in another.
Seems in keeping. It feels like Beverly has mentioned Wesley more in one season of Picard than she did in the 10 years since “Final Mission.”
It amazes me how JJA took so much heat for the “magic blood” plot device from so many fans, yet I have not seen many of the same fans who incessentatly complain about that bringing up the whole Picard brain-Borg plot device thing, which I find similarly weak.
Additionally, regarding the critique for JJA for “Budgeneering,” well in Pic S3 we get and entire Spacedock which is suppose to be a huge museum, and it’s manned by just a handful of people?
And these are just a couple of issues. Honestly, this season is very JJA-like, but that’s all getting a free-pass from many of the same fans who always bitch about that — because they prefer TNG fan service they are getting to TOS fan services that was given by JAA.
I really don’t see much of a difference.
Was it said that it was literally just that handful or could there have been more offscreen that we the audience wouldn’t know about
Well if so, they never showed Geordi or his daughter let anyone else there no that they were leaving (and if they did illegally depart, you would expect one of the staff to warn Starfleet, which obviously did not happen).
And then they just opened the spacedock door, with no communication to any spacedock personnel whatsoever — so that seems pretty obvious to me that this huge spacedock, which can hold probably 10,000+ people, is just manned by Geordi and his daughter — which makes zero sense to me.
Who the heck said weren’t 10,000+ people in that spacedock? Also, Geordi probably has all the override codes for that place.
Watch the ep, Einstein — like where the F is everybody?…NOTHING to see, NO ONE ELSE communicating?
Sheesh, do I need to spell it out for you again? No, we don’t get to make up shit because their might be 10,000 people there when we see on screen no evidence whatsoever as such.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
You should visit Elvis and Jim Morrison on Mars then.
Geordi’s offscreen wife may be of a rank to cover. (Alandra was ordered to ‘Tell mom we won’t be home for dinner,” in episode 6.
Interesting though that Geordi has expressed no concern for his wife, nor did she join the complement on the D in hanger bay 12.
“Interesting though that Geordi has expressed no concern for his wife, nor did she join the complement on the D in hanger bay 12.”
Nor did he communicate with anyone in the entire space stock before he left. My eyes and ears don’t lie — It’s presented to us that him and his two daughters were the only people on the entire complex.
Maybe because the Picard brain-Borg plot device fits with what we’ve seen before (e.g., they state Picard’s DNA was altered in “Best of Both Worlds” and Picard was hearing the voices of the Borg in First Contact and still had a connection where he knew where to target the Cube). It also isn’t anything out of the ordinary for Star Trek, and doesn’t leave a plot hole where you’ve effectively cured death within your fictional universe by saying Khan’s blood cures a dead Kirk?
When you get down in the weeds of arguing about the plot mechanics of the conspiracy plot, it misses the forest for the trees. The themes of Picard season 3 are NOT really centered around the conspiracy plot. It is about the power that comes through found family, the strength and hope that one can find in accepting our past and how that defines who we are (e.g., Data’s victory over Lore), and how these characters interact and support each other. That is true for every featured character, whether it be Data, Riker, Troi, or Picard. The Changeling/Borg plot is only a means to an end.
This is like all of those old articles which used to argue that Marvel and the MCU had a “villain problem.” The first Avengers film is not really about Loki (or even Thanos and the Infinity Stone saga plot). The villain plot is paper thin (i.e., scepter mind controls people to help create a giant hole in the sky) and only the window dressing the story uses to explore the interactions between the Avengers, using both the nostalgia that comes with the history of those characters and the feelings it evokes to see them work together through a problem.
It’s the same dynamic here.
Well, I kind of think you have “drunk the Kool-Aid” here — you are basically saying that because it’s a sentimental, fan service family reunion that it’s OK to have a weak conspiracy plot.
Look, man, I am enjoying the fan service family reunion (with tears in my eyes at a couple of points) immensely, but I am not going to pretend that this a great Trek story with well-thought out plot devices and bad guys. And in that vein, it does remind me of Star Trek Into Darkness, which also had a crew family thing persevering, with a poor story and questionable plot devices.. That’s all.
I’m judging the show on its own terms of what it’s attempting to do, not the expectations I’m putting on it. Beyond that, I usually judge these series on whether I’m entertained, whether it makes me want to rewatch it, and whether it makes me excited to discuss the episodes with other fans. And it’s been a yes to all of those for the episodes this season.
I’m not saying this is the best thing that’s ever been on television, but I don’t think it’s any better or worse than a TNG episode, or any different than my usual reaction to those episodes. TNG kept my attention for an hour, with some stories being better than others, because I enjoyed watching the interaction of these actors as these characters in this universe. Same thing here.
I am entertained with this season too! But that wasn’t my point…but hey, no worries.
Yes, I find it exasperating that many issues that received relentless and extreme criticism, in not just the Kelvin films but Discovery and earlier seasons of Picard, are given a complete pass.
Myself, I am an unrepentant critic but also an optimist who has, on balance felt the franchise is again getting stronger, and more coherent.
I’ve seen good in all of this new era, would loathe to see the franchise bent to coddle the most bitter TNG fans any more than I felt it should have done to make the angry die-hard TOS crowd happy when Janeway was made captain of Voyager.
Yes, I find it exasperating that many issues that received relentless and extreme criticism, in not just the Kelvin films but Discovery and earlier seasons of Picard, are given a complete pass.
THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO JUST FREAKING ADMITS THAT THIS IS THE CASE!
Sheesh, it’s not that big of a deal, or showing weakness, for fans to just come clean admit this and call a spade a spade — admit that they are sucked in by the fan service and sentimentality awesomeness of this season and are thus giving this show much more lee way than they would for DSC or the JJA movies. It’s evident that this is the case, so why pretend it’s not?
JJ’s engineering is a major locale in those films and as such should have reflected the designs that suggested a future that was in keeping with the rest of the ship, or (better still), one that reflected what had gone before design-wise. Instead, we get a location that has been played out in the V miniseries and one where they took no pains — not even the pains a zero-budget film would have taken — to mask the obvious giveaways of a contemporary facility. The fact they didn’t even lay down black plastic on the floor just staggered me — I did that on a three-figure Super-8 film to hide the contemporary pavement — and it shows an astonishing lack of visual imagination.
As nonsensical and stupid as the overlit Target-store-cosmetic-aisle bridge is in the JJ directed films (perhaps only matched by how badly lit the TITAN bridge appears), his engineering is the lamest of lames, and it actually gets worse in the second film.
Well now we have human zombies basically, controlled by the Borg, based on a really weak series of plot connections, and some really dumb stuff like making their faces look like a 90-year old lady’s varicose vein foot. I mean why would their faces turn into zombie looking faces just because it part of your brain started receiving and transmitting to the Borg? That’s lazy, “ just because it looks cool” writing — Just like we would expect to see in JJA Trek movie.
So I’m seeing a bunch of stuff like this in this season which don’t make sense to me that remind me of the JJA movies — So my point stands that people are giving this season a free pass (for fan service and sentimental reasons) whereas they shit all over the JJA movies even though the nonsensical issues are similar. I am not arguing either side here I’m just pointing out the Hypocrisy.
Well, nothing would ever get done if people weren’t allowed to be hypocrites. :)
Lots of people hand waved magic blood because it was central to the JJ films’ best developed relationship, Kirk and Spock. To me it was symptomatic of the dumbing down of a quasi-cerebral franchise as it immediately followed on from the scene where Kirk kicks the Enterprise’s engine until it is fixed. Add in that this was all part of a plot daring me to directly compare it to TWOK, and yeah, I wasn’t really prepared to cut them much slack. But I do get why some do – that friendship was well done and it’s an emotional moment.
Cut to now where the technobabble surrounding the Borg/Changeling plot is thin and silly, but I’m wrapped up in the emotions of seeing the TNG characters being given decent material with their original actors, now on the old Enterprise. I recognize that some aspects of the writing aren’t up to par, but it’s a TV show that’s now trading on my love for these characters that was built up over decades. They didn’t get their voices wrong, there’s some great humor, the characters have meaningful contributions to the story. That’s enough for me, and it’s what separates this season from those of other shows where I thought the plotting and character development didn’t do the necessary work, and from the JJ films which did wonders with less than 6 hours to develop all its characters but took a lot of short cuts. It’s a tv show designed to entertain and evoke emotional responses. It’s valid if someone wants to call the ploys used here as being cheaper than others, but if it works, it works. I’ve never wanted to be dispassionate about Star Trek, that would take the fun out of it!
Interesting that he mentioned Alexander…
Matalas should get a crack at Kelvinverse STAR TREK 4 – the right person has been right under their nose! He Could produce and Frakes direct.
I don’t think that has anything to do with finding a good director but everything to do with someone willing to fund it. ;)
But sure, would love to see Matalas and Frakes involved if it happens. :)
Please neither. Good lord, people it’s like you’re not even human anymore.
If I agree with you, will you then go away?
I can’t even begin to understand what that last part means and I don’t remotely care. You’re very very annoying, just go away.
People were very down on the show two weeks ago, skeptical of the show, were angry that the villain might be the borg.
But then he gives you the ENT-D and now he’s a messiah and should do the next movie. It’s quite funny. People are so easily manipulated.
You’re also mistaken: I’m not actually all that negative on this episode or the season. I’m just absolutely flabbergasted by all the people who criticized early episodes are now bending over backwards calling it the best series of all time because they got their beloved Enterprise-D back.
I honestly didn’t even realize that’s all it took.
What does ANY of that has to do with wanting Frakes and Matalas involved in the movies??? You insult people constantly and can’t seem to form an opinion or disagree with people without having to sound snarky over it. This is why people don’t like you here.
As far as being ‘flabbergasted’ because people really really like the episode because the Enterprise D showed up, who the hell cares man??? It’s just a TV show, people liked it because they are fans. It’s not a mystery. And you can still be critical of something but enjoy other elements of it. Is this really that hard for you to figure out??? How many times have you read my posts saying people aren’t binary? This is what I mean. It’s not a mystery.
And you getting so wound up about it and attacking people over it is what is flabbergasting . No one is forcing you to feel the say way or getting on your case about it for not loving it as much as others, correct?? So stop getting on theirs.
This is why people like you are sooooo annoying. Let people like what they like and hate what they hate. They don’t need someone like you to tell them why they are wrong for feeling that way.
Because that’s not how you eat baby carrots. Learn something for once!
This is becoming a Manny Coto situation all over again. While I agree that he’s done good work, it’s not as if he’s some shining light of genius, and the only man capable of good stories. I’m on board with the idea of letting him create another show – and improve on what he’s already done – but I don’t want to see him doing ST4, SNW, or SA.
Okuda came out on Twitter and pushed back against people like you. Said that, while he loves Matalas and wants to see him do more, Trek needs more creative visions from more people, not less. And I agree.
Great if Mike Okuda is taking that stance.
I looked through his twitter quickly and couldn’t find that quickly. If you can links the tweet or tweet reply, it would be welcome.
I remarked previously that I had been concerned that Okuda and some of the others on production design had been too indulgent in interviews with the YouTubers. Basically, letting them be disrespectful of the production designers on the other SH shows, rather than saying there’s room for new design in other eras.
I noticed in the media stories on the rebuild of the D’s historic bridge, that Okuda is himself underscoring that Roddenberry wanted new design for TNG, specifically to get rid of the plastic buttons of TOS – LCARS was Okuda’s solution.
It’s important for these guys to be team players, for the sake of the franchise. Their work is well received, they can be magnanimous in protecting the ability of the franchise to continue to provide fresh visual language.
All the more so, if a future show will be produced up in Ontario where the teams will have to work together.
Okuda’s reply was in response to some else’s comment. Feel free to go find it. He’s right. We don’t need one person doing everything, we need multiple voices.
The PICARD s2/s3 production designer specifically went out of his way to not reinvent the wheel, telling his crew that the show is not fantasy, it is drama with threescore years of history behind it on the tube, and that the designs should be recognizable no matter how much the look gets modernized. I mentioned TMP as a prime example of subverting that notion designwise, creating that ghastly transporter room which often reads like an underlit set of castoffs from oldBSG, and while he wasn’t going to knock other designers’ work, he clearly thought that showing off how different you make something was not doing the universe justice.
I talked with the original DSC PD about another series, and when I brought up DSC, he mentioned Okuda as being a great guy who actually brought in an LCARS graphic as a kind of gift when he interviewed for the series.
kmart, I understand where coming from.
The problem is that there’s a narrative around the work that doesn’t track to what happened. It wasn’t a matter of creatives up in Toronto just doing there own thing.
The American original Discovery PD with whom you would have spoken was the one who created the main sets for the Discovery and Klingon Death Barge that Deverell had to attempt to adjust back towards the established visual code.
He was likely directed by Fuller to do something wildly different, but once that budget was blown on the pilot and the Discovery ship sets, there was little to be done with the ship season one. Deverell had to turn an armoury for hand loading torpedoes into the spore drive / engineering space.
(Deverell’s own ability to respectfully update previous visual code can’t be disputed given what she did with the 1701 redux.)
Phil Barker’s (Space 1999 inspired) 32nd century visual canon is gorgeous and works for that era.
Picard’s season one designer, who gave us the dreary box interior of La Sirena, was the same guy who gave us the pilot and next two episode production designs of Discovery. Nice to hear he spoke respectfully of Okuda’s work nonetheless.
Ah yes, the total BS “Manny Coto Saved Enterprise” urban legend. That load of BS gets more legendary every year…lol
I’m greatly looking forward to hearing about them all being killed off next week. Three farewells is enough. Time to put these old folks in their boxes.
Why are you beating around the bush? Tell us what you really think.
I understand that a lot of fans loved Shaw, but THIS fan did not. I thought the actor played him superbly, but the actor is not the character, and the character is not the sort of person I want to see in a Starfleet captain’s chair.
The nice thing about Shaw was that he was flawed. He was haunted by ghosts and had a bad case of survivors guilt but still soldiered on and always did the right thing when the chips were down. The last Trek character to kind of go there was the morally ambiguous Lorca in the first half of the first season of Discovery. He was a genuinely interesting character until he was revealed to be a one note mustache twirling villain (one of the absolute worst decisions ever in my opinion). The fact that Shaw was imperfect but working on being a better person and a better captain is what I liked so much about him. I identified more with him than just about any other captain on the shows.
There’s a push-me-pull-you for me with all Trek captains, because as much as I find the flaws compelling and/or infuriating, these guys should absolutely be best-of-the-best-of-the-best-sir! types. That’s not to say the best don’t break down (TOS Garth and Decker) or have off-days, but people who are hugely flawed in fundamental ways don’t have any business being promoted into that role, no matter how short-staffed ‘fleet might be.
Shaw evinces the kind of flaws that don’t even pass muster among crew for very long on Kirk’s ship — yet Kirk’s fleet also had contained such ‘gems’ as Ron Tracey, so I’m not claiming TOS-uber-alles on this (I mean, security doesn’t seem to exist in TOS except to die.)
I think the writing on Shaw was actually quite thin, just enough to get him to the points he needed to in order to be useful in the end, while also buttressing the Borg aspect (in an all too familiar way, one I don’t dig because the Quint Indianapolis speech in JAWS is sheer poetry, and going there invites unfavorable comparison for anybody) … perhaps that is why this actor was chosen, to bring something more in order to elevate the underwritten character. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t (David Warner in TFF, anyone? – and that’s coming from one of TFF’s biggest devotees, right from day one.)
I don’t think much about DSC, but in rereading this, I remembered how Jason Isaacs brought something to his MU Captain that I found of interest. I didn’t appreciate it (or much of anything on the show), but at least he registered as something other than a live-action puppet some of the time.
Yes, I agree.
I’ve met senior officers who carry on with their trauma. Including one who was once of the best I met.
The work of healing isn’t a once and for all thing. Trauma can be understood as an invisible disability.
The kinds of attitudes that suggest that great officers should not only be the best and brightest, but also be those who are miraculously untouched by trauma is a kind of ableism. It implies that once deeply psychologically injured, a career is over and an officer marginalized. That’s not really consistent with Trek values.
Todd Stashwick has commented that many serving and ex-military have reached out to him to say they feel seen, represented by his character. That’s an important representation to bring into a franchise about excellence and service.
Shaw has the opportunity to keep on growing and working through it all, becoming a better person and officer – through the trauma and beyond it.
I think the franchise is ready for that.
I’ve been assuming that they have some really EXCELLENT treatment for psychological trauma by the 23rd century, given all that Jim Kirk goes through in TOS and how fine he always seemed. I know that some of that was the episodic nature of the TV shows of the time, where the characters had to be basically reset at the beginning of every episode.
But we’re working on understanding trauma, even today, and there are some indications that treatments as varied as EMDR and MDMA help to “break up” the trauma into smaller pieces, so it can be processed and assimilated. Picard happens in the 25th century, and the treatment for trauma should be truly excellent by then!
Of course, the audience lives now, so a trauma story is a valid thing for Trek to have. But I’m afraid that Starfleet officers DO have to be very able folks, so I’d think an officer would need to be undergoing treatment and not visibly struggling while on duty. They owe it to everyone around them not to be the person who’s so distracted by their own stuff that they get everyone killed or create a diplomatic incident or whatever. Being relieved of duty long enough to get medical treatment only makes sense; they don’t send a solider with a broken leg to the front lines.
It’s true that flawed characters are interesting, but Starfleet captains should have as few flaws as possible. There are TRILLIONS of people in the Federation — or maybe even whatever number comes after trillion — so there are a huge number of people competing for these spots. A Starfleet captain should be recognizably human — as TOS Kirk was — but they should be the very best that their species has to offer, very nearly SUPER-human or super-Vulcan or super-Andorian or whatever.
In my opinion, Shaw was much too flawed to deserve a captain’s spot.
Same here. I was waiting for him to become likeable. Still waiting.
I regretfully have to agree. His evolution had a lot of potential, especially given the Wolf 359 backstory. But in the final half of the series, his character and presence was sadly underwritten, making his final kind remarks to “Seven of Nine” far less impactful than they could have been.
That said, sure am hoping Seven pulls off some kind of Shaw resurrection hocus-pocus next week.
I wouldn’t bet AGAINST it.
I also wouldn’t be surmised if Shaw were UPSET to be resurrected..with the use of, Borg Technology.
We Shall See.
Maybe when if they resurrect Shaw where he enjoys seeing kidnapped victims with their body used against their will use their new provided name you’d like him?
I kept thinking Picard will end up likeable, but even Crusher wouldn’t let him around his kid, the guy let Utopia Planetia get destroyed on Mars for an AI obsession all while compromised by the Borg. But robo-Picard, I am finding awesome (after a horrid Season 2, pretty good in 3).
He wasn’t responsible for Utopia Planitia, and he doesn’t have an AI obsession. Synths were used because it was the only way to manufacture enough ships to rescue the Romulans, and they revolted because the Zhat Vash reprogrammed them to do so. He also wasn’t exactly compromised by the Borg. They did alter his brain, which Starfleet missed in their analysis, but the only effect was that it allowed him to hear the collective when they were nearby, and it ultimately killed him. It did not influence his decision making.
So Picard just ditched his friends and went all AI must build an evacuation fleet on his own? He is just a jerk who purposely programs robots to act as slaves while building ships? I think Picard is more likeable if you assume that was Borg influenced.
He doesn’t run Utopia Planitia. He didn’t put the synths there. It isn’t entirely clear how sentient the synths on Mars were, but they didn’t seem to object to working at Utopia Planitia. And where are you getting the idea that he ditched his friends? He left Starfleet after the Synth incident, but that had more to do with Starfleet abandoning the Romulans to die than it did with the Synths. And we know that he kept somewhat in touch with all of his former crew apart from Beverly during that time.
In blaming Picard for having been assimilated, Shaw was blaming the victim for having been victimized. We’re supposed to know better than that, even today, and I hope such a thing will have entirely died out by the 25th freaking century!
Shaw believed Picard was purposely ignoring the fact he was compromised…. which turned out to be correct. And it cost an entire generation in Starfleet the trauma of having been assimilated, something bizarre especially since Picard shot his junior officers for that they wouldn’t have to experience.
Also weird to think that if a Laforge girl comes out of this thinking she feels more comfortable calling herself Eight of Nine some think she should keep her name and no one should have any concerns over that.
If Sydney or Alandra came out of this using a Borg designation, it would be very different from Seven. They will presumably be unassimilated after just a few days while they are in their 20s. Seven was assimilated at age 6, after the parents who gave her the Aanika name carelessly put her in harm’s way. She was freed from the collective almost 20 years later when she barely remembered the her birth name and had no connection to it. Seven of Nine is the name that she used when she regained her individuality and when she found her new family aboard Voyager. Aanika Hansen is the name she used when she was assimilated.
I did not like him either …actor or character both deeply unlikeable no charm about either of them! Also no way starfleet let someone like that captain a starship!!
Glad to hear I’m not the only one!
I do wish there had been a spoiler warning for the “nobody dies” bit, although I wonder why Frakes dismissed Shaw (assuming he is dead) and T’Veen from this.
I assumed he was specifically talking about TNG cast.
i feel like the only way they beat the borg is time travel….alla ‘you think in such 3 dimensional terms’.
i hope jack doesn’t just defeat the borg cause its that time in the episode and just wills his way to win alla rey at the end of rise of skywalker when she decides she really wants to win and does because……still trying to figure that one out.