[Picard episode review starts at 22:03]
Tony and Laurie can’t wait to talk about the Star Trek: Picard season finale, but there’s a lot of big news to get to first! They cover the announced return of Michelle Yeah to Star Trek with a Section 31 TV-movie, the Strange New Worlds season 2 teaser trailer, SNW’s upcoming arrival on Pluto TV, and plans from Paramount+ to develop a Galaxy Quest series. They discuss the popularity of Picard, including its arrival on the list of top ten streaming shows as ranked by Nielsen, the Enterprise-D in Times Square, and the details on the rebuild of that famous bridge.
Then it’s time to talk about “The Last Generation,” the final episode of Star Trek: Picard. Tony and Laurie talk about those emotional moments and exchanges, the action-packed rescue, surprising guest stars, and the multiple, very satisfying ending scenes, as well as the way the show is set up for a follow-up series even if nothing is in development yet. They podcasters are sad to see the season end, but happy it went out so beautifully.
Links:
Michelle Yeoh To Return To Star Trek In ‘Section 31’ TV Movie
Report: Section 31 To Be The First Of Series Of Paramount+ Star Trek Movies
Watch: First Trailer For ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Season 2 Features Kirk, Kane, And Klingons
The Postal Service “Such Great Heights”
Season 1 Of ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ To Stream For Free On Pluto TV Ahead Of Season 2 Release
Paramount+ Reportedly Developing ‘Galaxy Quest’ Series
Terry Matalas says “put me in, coach” about Galaxy Quest and Christopher Monfette chimes in [Twitter]
‘Picard’ Becomes First Star Trek Series To Break Into Streaming Top 10 Ranking
Little Riker sees the Enterprise-D in Times Square [Twitter]
Bill Prady tweets about Star Trek: Picard [Twitter]
Josh Gad tweets about Star Trek: Picard [Twitter]
Watch Nostalgic Bridge Set Tour And Clip From ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Series Finale
Check Out Atmospheric Photo Gallery Of ‘Star Trek: TNG’ And ‘Picard’ Cast On New Enterprise-D Bridge
Doris Miller, USS West Virginia cook who won Navy Cross at the Battle of Pearl Harbor. [Wiki]
Lando and Nien Nunb in Return of the Jedi
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle
Stop trying to make “fetch” happen from Mean Girls
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Jack’s storyline in this episode is so silly.
Thanks for another great review! Looking forward to SNW and especially LDS later this year!
Also. I agree with all the issues outlined in the review, but don’t think they should be overlooked because Terry hit the right nostalgia buttons.
That brings up an interesting point. Matalas’ biggest achievement has been succeeding at nostalgia where other previous shows failed. He rightly recognized exactly which bits of nostalgia would make fans ignore bad writing.
DSC failed, thinking that just including Sarek or Pike or Spock would be enough. JJ failed for the same reasons. Matalas gets that people don’t just want the same characters and iconography, they literally want recreations.
Give them that, and nothing else matters.
JJ did not fail. The first movie was extraordinary successful for a Star Trek film. And nostalgia alone didn’t carry the third season of Picard.
By not using the awesome designs correctly (such as the bridge) and the starship as done in SNW I think JJ did fail. Imagine if the Kelvin-verse had been the SNW ship, designs, Pike’s crew, etc.
But the D flying crazy like the Millennium Falcon with Data/Lando piloting and destroying the center of the Borg Cube/Death Star — FREE PASS?
This is not directed at you specifically, but after all the Star Wars-like BS in Pic S3 that most fans are giving a free pass to, I am personally done with listening to many of those same fans bringing up their FAKE RAGE on similar issues with the JAA Trek movies.
Fan hypocrisy has never been so freaking obvious as it is regarding Pic S3.
Yeah, season three has definitely exposed a flaming mess of contradictions among the fan base. I guess it’s okay when it’s science fiction, not science fantasy.
Your preference in ship design obviously did not impact the profitability of the film.
No, but I DO think it impacted the profitability of the merchandise, DVD sales and the sequels.
I’m the guy who for 30 years got the model kits, FASA and Starfleet Battles, novels, has TOS, TAS and the TOS movies on DVD and Blue Ray, etc. Computer games 25th anniversary, judgement rites, Star Fleet command. I even bought them to play with kids on COG (ironically haven’t played any yet after installed!)
While I loved the 2009 Trek because it had a good cast, wasn’t enough for me to put it in the same league as TOS which is sad because it should have been better.
Now SNW…. There is this light up version that I want to buy but it’s like 300 that my wife would kill me, trying to sell that it’s for the kids. Also saw the Playmobil Enterprise of my dreams; reminds me of these cardboard constructs I used to built as a kid where the saucer opened up lol
Which is not the issue here — plenty of movies are profitable and still utter crap, 09 being one of the shining examples in this young century. Even with a fan or two in the mix there, the Abrams bunch still only paid muted lip service to the real deal while subverting nearly every aspect that made the original so good and so memorable. They even trashed the unique big troika mythology in favor of trying to cram Campbellian mythology in its place.
Only us old fanboys care about stuff like this. New fans, what these movies were meant to target, didn’t obviously.
Yeah, I loved Trek 2009, and it’s still my 3rd fav Trek movie ever. It’s sequels were “meh” though for me.
DSC failed, thinking that just including Sarek or Pike or Spock would be enough
You are WAY WRONG on this one — that was a huge DSC success — they spun an entire successful new series off of that — SNW.
DSC didn’t fail…. it has TWO spinoffs. Whether you like or not, it is in no way a failure.
Exactly, and a spinoff movie on the way as well.
DSC is the Law and Order of the Trek franchise
L&O’s legacy is about endurance, and DSC clearly has not managed that. It’ll have done about the same number of eps when it blessedly ends as L&) did in less than three years.
That it was enough to stop me — ME! — from watching TREK altogether for awhile means it registered ‘wrong’ in more way than even VOYAGER or ENT managed.
It’s all relative. SVU became a longer running series than law and order, an eclipsed it as well in the eyes of fans. Strange New Worlds I think will do the same versus discovery. But that takes nothing away from the series that started it all in terms of the origins. Whether you or I or someone else personally likes or not, well that makes no difference, because regardless of all that it’s the “creator series” that spawned multiple other series, and now even a movie, —- that’s an incontrovertible fact.
You need a better choice of word then failed for Discovery and JJ Abrams. You may not like them, personally, but we would not be having these conversations if they were failures, in any way, shape, or form.
Oh sure, because everything on this site is based on and due to the original show, which was a complete failure that barely stayed on the air for three seasons, one that Paramount was so down on post-run they were even willing to sell off to GR a couple years after it ended, but apparently he didn’t have the 150,000 they wanted for ownership.
Well, we wouldn’t be having this conversation if Trek had slipped quietly into oblivion after cancellation. We actually should be thankful the show found it’s legs in syndication, had GR managed to scrape together the150K to buy it, he would (likely) have f**ked it up a half dozen ways to Sunday…..
People get very emotional when they’ve very much dislike something and their ability to process logic kind of flies out the door. I can sympathize with that — that happens to me sometimes with my severe dislike of lower decks
Thank you for acknowledging that.
I’m really trying to keep the ‘menu of offerings’ in mind when I think of Jack in that chair beside Seven on the bridge.
An amazing episode of Star Trek. Solid podcast episode.
I loved the season but it kind of took me out of it that they renamed the Titan Enterprise-G. the Titan was already a legacy name and it was set up that the Titan wasn’t a top of the line ship and had a lot of old parts and it just feels like it doesn’t live up to the standard set for what ship gets the name Enterprise.
The Enterprise-A was a renamed Yorktown that was the same class of ship.
Even though the Enterprise-A was the Yorktown, it was still another Constitution class ship, which was the top of the line back then. It was only succeeded by the Excelsior, which wasn’t in mass production as of the end of ST4.
The Titan was established as an underdog ship, and that’s not what the Enterprise has been about. It’s always been the flagship of the Federation and the pinnacle of current technology (Constitution, Excelsior, Ambassador, Galaxy, Sovereign, Odyssey). Renaming the Titan not only completely discards the history of that ship, but also doesn’t honor the legacy of the Enterprise’s name and role within Starfleet.
I get why they did it, but it would have made more sense to call it the USS Picard if they had to do something. And for those commenting that ships are only named after people who have died…Picard did technically die at the end of season 1…so maybe that’s the loophole.
Great podcast. I’ll take on Tony’s request and suggest more topics, but first I noticed something about The Last Generation that I don’t think was mentioned before:
During TNG, whenever Worf beamed down with an away team, he was always the first to draw a phaser while the other crew were scanning with tricorders. In this episode it was flipped: when the “Threesome” beamed to the Borg Cube, Picard and Riker had their phasers drawn while it was Worf, of all people, who started scanning with the tricorder. That was a neat little device Matalas used to highlight the change and progress in Worf’s character.
For suggested topics, I always love the “inside-baseball” stuff you guys sometimes discuss about Star Trek. From the business side, to production decisions, to the studio politics, and interpersonal drama of the creatives. How profitable is Star Trek? Studio heads and execs have tried to change the business model of this franchise for years. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it did not. I’d like to hear your take.
We have been talking about doing a “state of Star Trek” kind of episode for sure.
Thank you again for your podcast. I actually look forward to it (almost?) as much as I do the show… And this goes for the episode review Anthony does on Thursday as well.
There are two things that stick out for me on this season. First of all I feel the big bad reveal and the resolution to the plot didn’t live up to all the hype. It’s like a toy that you wind-up to the max hoping it’s going to zoom away and at the end it moves an inch and dies. I feel like a deflated balloon. The ending was so very anticlimactic…
The second thing is that, as many have mentioned, a lot of the plot incongruities (there have been many) have been drowned out by the nostalgia. If you look at this objectively, the entire season took place on what, only 7 or 8 different sets? And there has been a lot of filler that could just have been trimmed out. And what about the ubiquitous darkness everywhere, not just one or two locations. This was just too much. Guys I hope you’re going to have a post-season interview with T. Matalas and ask him WHY?
Still, no one can complain about the nostalgia. What did Matalas say at the beginning, that this was a Valentines gift for the fans, and a proper sendoff for the cast? Well it was. We knew from the start this would be all about nostalgia, and for me, the more the better. I was still hoping for the 1701-A to come and save the day, with the Defiant as wing…
One last thing. Those few moments (like between Riker and Picard) where the character’s voice was breaking… That was not only emotion between the characters, it was between the actors as well, and this is why it was so real.
One more last thing… I didn’t like having the Titan renamed as the Enterprise. I feel the Titan doesn’t have the gravitas to have earned that name. She’s a good ship, but it takes way more than that.
Hi! I think the big issue with the big bad reveal was that they fell a bit into the “mystery box” trap. Holding off on the reveal meant that we didn’t get to explore it in a way that would have been intriguing. I would have loved a deeper dive into the idea that Jack has felt pulled towards something he didn’t understand his whole life, taking the moments where he talked about this briefly and expanding them into something that made us see why he felt he had no choice but to hijack a shuttle and go find the Borg to get answers. We could have had them try to stop him, too. There are a lot of different elements like that, things that were touched on a little but would’ve been fascinating to explore in a deeper way. Without having to save the reveal, they could’ve done so much more with it!
But yes… I loved the season anyway. It was indeed a gift, and a glorious one at that.
This 1000% percent. There’s an intriguing story there that they wasted, instead choosing to focus on easter eggs, fan fiction, and nostalgia.
I don’t think instead! I think there was room for it all. Frankly, I loved the nostalgia.
Oh, people can complain about nostalgia, and sometimes it’s well deserved. The series finale of Enterprise was also a “valentine” to the fans, and now that looks downright humble compared to ST: Picard.
Everyone’s tolerance is different, of course, but for me episodes 6, 9, and 10 went too far in that direction.
I think part of the problem with the Enterprise series finale was the lens through which it was viewed. Enterprise fans wanted it to be an Enterprise finale, while the producers (Rick & Brannon) thought of it as a Star Trek finale for the era. A miscalculation… and killing Trip was part of that.
But yes, everyone’s tolerance is different, as are the things we each have nostalgia for.
I’m old. I’m nostalgic about everything. Still miss my Silly-Putty, Slinky, Spirograph and my sister’s Light-Bright…
You can get all of those things! I have a Slinky and Silly Putty. I suspect Spirograph has come up with something better than those tiny little pins by now!
Yes, our kids had all of those.
Etch-a-sketch turned out to be the most popular.
Ebay awaits you….
I didn’t like the killing of Trip at the time. For one, it seemed rushed. But now I have more respect for it. As clumsily executed as it was, at least it was a bold decision of some kind. This finale of Picard, on the other hand, felt far too timid to me.
Gimme some of that boldly going again, Trek.
Go watch the Shuttlepod Show where they interviewed Berman they talk about the finale a bit and it brings a whole new perspective. The actor, first of all, liked the idea of being killed off. Plus, Berman explains a justification for the finale that i’d never heard before that actually makes some sense, narratively.
Basically, they were told very late in the season that they were getting canceled, and had to hurriedly write a finale. They had always planned to have the final episode showing Archer signing the Federation charter, which would have followed the Romulan war. But the plan was to do that after 7 seasons, not 4. So the idea was to have the TNG crew looking back, allowing them to jump around in time.
Not the most elegant solution, but certainly an understandable one, knowing what they were trying to accomplish.
Interesting. That does make more sense. Thanks for the info.
Was that part 2? I remember watching part 1 of his interview and part 2 wasn’t up yet. (Ages ago.)
The Daystrom Institute is where it went overboard for me, even more than the fleet museum. Why did we need to even see anything else that was there? If anything, make it a true easter egg with Worf scrolling through a text manifest.
No, they just couldn’t help themselves and not only spent all that time and money creating graphics to show us all this stuff from Trek history, but they even had the camera linger on it…
Same here.
Prior to this season airing, I got comfortable approaching this as a fan service outing. Episodes one through five didn’t disappoint, episode six crossed the line into pandering for me, and it did taint the rest of the season for me. Anyway, its over and done, and those who really dug it are happy. As I’ve mentioned previously, I’m good with this being the exclamation point on TNG, with no spin offs moving forward.
Well said.
I grudgingly will admit that most of your advance takes/predictions regarding Trek prove to be correct.
That’s like giving gremlins food after midnight…
:-)
Just don’t get me wet…..
Alex Kurtzman and his bosses at Paramount+ clearly read the room when people wanted a Pike and Spock show after their appearance on Discovery. Why are they not doing the same thing with Picard?
All we hear is “there is no Picard-era show in development” ad nauseam.
Why would they not put a Star Trek Legacy show into development? Do we TNG fans skew too old for their demographics? There must be some specific reasons.
It took a while for Paramount to react to the fans clamoring… Give it time.
Yep. It was over a full year after DSC Season 2 ended that SNW was announced, and another 2 before it premiered (but part of that was Covid related)
I say throw the fans a temporary bone and give them the second TV movie as the immediate follow-on to this — then we can see if the ratings and reviews for that hold up, given Matalas will have to have a much better story within the nostalgia factor of TNG removed. I would want to see something like that first before I would support a follow-on series to this.
Yes, makes sense.
I think the second movie or first miniseries has Janeway’s name on it.
Some 60-90 minute one-shots with key legacy TNG cast would be great in the meantime.
In the review thread, I proposed bringing back Naren Shankar to give Troi her focus piece. ‘Face of the Enemy’ remains one of the few episodes that used her abilities well.
Matalas could do a ‘Family’ type episode that shows us how Jack gets through the early stages of his recovery from trauma and guilt for the tens or hundreds of thousands of lives lost.
I was just thinking about what Tony and Laurie said about the end on the bridge of the Ent-G and it feeling like the show was saying “a new show is just around the corner” when it isn’t. But, the same thing happened with Strange New Worlds. Discovery season 2’s finale “Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2” aired in April 2019 and it ended with Pike, Spock, Number 1, and the rest of the crew of the Enterprise heading off on their adventures. Strange New Worlds wasn’t officially announced until May 2020. So, I wouldn’t worry about the status of “Legacy” for at least a year (though I had been personally hoping for some semi-official confirmation on the most recent First Contact Day. Oh well.).
When you remove all the nostalgia and fan service , you need to ask yourself if you really want to have a follow on series that has all the same issues as the JJ Abrams Star Wars-like approach for Star Trek, but with the satisfying TNG reunion stuff removed?
I mean, the finale was basically Return of the Jedi (like freaking all of the major elements) — and if you don’t see that, you are kidding yourself.
I did not experience this season of Picard as nostalgia or “fan service”. For me it was a great story with characters I love that advanced their characters in a well-crafted narrative.
I reject the trolling that this was just one big Easter egg festival of “fan service”, whatever that means.
I noticed that you did not refute my comparison to ROTJ, or that the story was a JJ Abrams Star Wars-like approach for Star Trek.
I noticed that also, maybe they have better things to worry than stupid debates. Probably couldn’t give a toss about Star Wars which is understandable.
Wow, thanks for clearing all that up — much appreciated!
The Enterprise flew into the middle of the Borg cube to blow up the beacon. It is similar to the plot point of Lando flying into the Death Star to blow it up.
Beyond that I don’t see resemblance between the stories.
BUT ALSO:
-The Emperor in the Death Star = Borg Queen in Cube
-Luke and Vader’ struggle with each other and then overcoming Palpatine = Picard and Jack’s struggle with each other and then overcoming Borg Queen.
-The supporting mission on Endor occurring in parallel with the Death Star ending events = the supporting mission near Earth by the Titan crew
Jacks and Picards dark powers they must overcome as father and son = Vader and Luke’s dark powers they must overcome as father and son
It’s nearly the same F’ing movie, dude.
Not seeing the resemblance.
I agree… the key was that it advanced the characters, evolving them but still being true to who they were, and giving them a final mission together that meant something.
Hi Laurie, do you acknowledge the rather obvious parallels to the end of Return of the Jedi?
I didn’t notice any laser sword fights or carnivorous teddy bears attacking fascist soldiers in redwood forests.
LOL, nice deflection. :-) Laurie can respond herself though.
Not deflecting. Pointing out that you are wrong.
I can take a horse to water, but I can’t make him drink.
Especially when there is no water where you take him.
No, it was a freaking lake with high quality h2o.
You’re proceeding from a false assumption if you’re on Arrakis (to drag a third franchise into the argument, and yeah, it was totally RETURN OF THE JEDI, with the crosscutting between the dive into the cube and the daddy issues stuff inside. Then again, the big blowup at the end of this season’s MANDALORIAN felt like a spin on the ZHADUM ep of B5, but I haven’t seen it come up anywhere else yet.
I’m not getting the Return of the Jedi arguments. Picard and Jack connecting was not the same as Luke and Vader. But people will see what they want to see.
Yeah we’re all just falsely imagining this, including Tony in the podcast, Laurie in her comment below, and like eight others of us here, plus many others on other sites as well.
There are some for sure. And Tony made the same point on the podcast. But as I said on the pod, I thought a big parallel was the end of A Wrinkle in Time, a book I read 800 times as a kid. There were moments scattered throughout the season that reminded me of other movies & shows, which is fine. I thought they had a couple of cool T2 moments in there too (but not in the finale). And Picard and Jack didn’t overcome the queen… that was done by the D. It was a very different solution except for flying through the cube.
Good points. Yeah, I also agreed with your Wrinkle in Time point.
Picard and Jack overcoming or not overcoming the queen was a grey area for me that I don’t think was handled/explained well. So she has this strong personal force field she can use, but then she just does nothing when Picard is disconnecting Jack — that implied to me that Jack is not letting her harm Picard (so overcoming the Queen)…but it’s kind of nonsensical and head-scratching. But then when Picard connects, he sort of does assist in overcoming the Queen — but again, I don’t think was handled/explained well.
Thanks again for the great podcast!
She had a personal force field but she couldn’t do anything physical… she was sort of fused into the cube. She couldn’t stop Picard, she could only control Jack’s mind and keep him in the collective. I didn’t get the idea that Jack had anything to do with that part. Picard didn’t help with the queen at all, it was just phasers and ‘splosions. The confusing part was one we talked about on the pod… that they destroyed the beacon but the signal was still being transmitted. Anyway, I’m glad you enjoyed the podcast! Star Trek fans will debate these points forever, and it’ll be fun.
I don’t personally mind adaptation in principle. It’s been baked in since ‘The Cage’ took from ‘Forbidden Planet’ and ‘Balance of Terror’ took from ‘The Enemy Below.’
It’s not even the first such adaptation this season. Episode three took from both Crimison Tide and the Hunt for Red October, sometimes lifting dialogue verbatim.
The question is always whether it was well done. I still would rather watch Voyager’s brilliant adaptation ‘The Thaw’ than ‘It’.
I do think that the SW adapted story worked for the arcs of the legacy characters. A key difference was that it was told from the perspective of the parents’ generation. For me the failure was that we didn’t really connect with or care for the Luke-analogue, Jack Crusher for any number of reasons.
What irks me though is that the many of the same people (even Laurie it seems) who were very critical of how SNW’s Gorn episode ‘All those who wander’ followed many of the beats of the original Alien movie, are now saying it’s not important or they just don’t see it in the Picard finale.
I wasn’t critical of the Gorn episode because it was like Alien. I barely remember Alien… those movies are not for me, although I saw the first two. The reason I wasn’t drawn to them is because they were, at their core, monster movies, which is not a genre I find interesting. “Arena” is not a great episode, in my opinion, but it had something to say.
That’s helpful to understand.
Since you’ve shared that you don’t really like monster movies or submarine thrillers – two of my childhood favourites for suspense – we’re definitely seeing different things in these types of episodes.
I can understand then that you’ve been critiquing from the perspective of not liking those categories rather than specific examples.
I can still appreciate good quality within those genres, but it does add an initial barrier. Just seeing how people fight off a monster does nothing for me… it’s when there are nuances to that monster that it gets good. King Kong is a great example, because in that story, humans are the monsters. (Uh oh, spoiler alert.)
We need a show set between the timeline of Enterprise and Discovery. They need to rinse every piece of history out before TNG, DS9 and Voyager’s timeline.
I would prefer a complete reboot of Enterprise to get it right this time. That failed series completely botched the pre-TOS era.
Another Star Trek reboot that’s just what we need lol
In this case the original boot was made with wet paper and masking tape.
After JJ verse I’m sick of reboots. 😕
How about stop making prequels and just keep going forward.
There was a Romulan War movie in development before Enterprise was cancelled. That probably would have been close to what you were talking about.
I wouldn’t read too much into the Borg reference in Discovery. Rillak was just comparing the 10C to the Borg since they both had hive minds. Even after they’ve been gone for 800 years, the Borg would still be the most well-known example of a hive mind.
Also if you think this is the last episode to feature the borg… I have a bridge to sell you! I am hopeful they’ll give them a rest for a good long while, but they will certainly be back in some way, shape, or form.
Yeah, they are too bankable.
If nothing else, they can always show up in shows set before Picard.
Great podcast — and you point out some issues I had not considered. In relation to this, and the discussion of the finale has largely moved to this article, I am repeating here my assessment that I posted very late last night (my apologies for those of you who have already read this)…
OK, just watched it. I did enjoy the sentimental final 20 min after the story wrapped up — and yeah, it does set the stage nicely for a follow-on…but I am not really sure I personally want that series given that I think Matalas unfortunately botched the second half of this season.
I mean, please tell me if I am wrong, but the last two eps were a complete rip-off of Return of the Jedi, right? I mean, literally the entire main character battles and plotting — just switching some of the roles around. And the whole finale was Star Wars action adventure movie-like — not a TNG crew solving a problem in a unique way and avoiding violence and death — instead, this was taking the JJA approach to TNG.
Here is a summary of some of my issues
-that many starships firing like that should have been able to take out the starbase in seconds, not hours?
-the Borg queen has a powerful personal force field around here, but does nothing when Picard starts pulling the plug on Jack?
-how do just a handful of crew take an old starship into battle, etc…makes no sense?
-If Q is renewed and presenting himself to Jack, why does he look old still?
-Raffi should not be under the command of an office she had a romantic relationship with
-Why would Jack act with the mannerisms of Captain Kirk at the end of the ep instead of Picard
-The Changelling’s role in the finale was minimal — that story thread broke down
-Jack runs to the Borg, is a Borg for an hour, and the Dad convinces him to not be a Borg…silly!
-Guinan is in the room, but off screen? Seriously?
Additionally, this ep reinforced how much stuff in this season was so JJA-like, but the same fans that are always critical of those issues from those films are still silent as mouses on all the same similar shortcuts, etc from this season.
All in all, while it was fun to see the old TNG back for one final time, I would rate this season as #2 in the Picard seasons — Season 1 was better than this season, but this Season is significantly better than the horrid Season 2. And I would take one of the first two seasons of DSC any day over this season.
Matalas did some nice things, but in the end, he is sort of a TV version of JJA — we have the same weaknesses and issues, and the same Star Wars-like story telling instead of Trek problem solving.
BRING ON SNW….that series gets Trek still!
The whole “gets Trek” is so very tiresome. If we are stuck with SNW and Academy my excitement for Star Trek going forward is waining. Bit sick of the the old skool nostalgia of SNW and the awful reboot movies.
DS9 was not Trek at it’s time but was the best sci fi show out there, it was superb and not Trek maybe because it didn’t really try to be. SNW just seems like been there done that before to me where DS9 was something different. I suppose Academy is something different so I will give it a chance.
You criticise Picard for playing on nostalgia but every Nu Trek has in a way, probably SNW most of all.
OK, but SNW though primarily focuses on solving problems in the Star Trek way like TNG and TOS, not the action adventure Star Wars/JJ-Trek way like what we saw here in Pic S3 and STID. “Getting Trek” is important to me.
That’s where my issue is with the Gorn. I feel like they have yet to say anything about them except that they’re vicious creatures who will keep trying to kill you until you kill them… not a very Star Trek message. Maybe they’ll surprise me this season, though. So far I just wish they wouldn’t do a monster story at all, it’s not that interesting.
Yep, and I just knew someone would correctly point out that major exception. I agree.
The problem is that they aren’t supposed to learn that the Gorn are more than monsters until Arena. If the Gorn keep showing up in SNW, the Federation has to continue to see them as monsters.
That’s many of our headcanon, but it’s not clear that it’s the general understanding of the Gorn to the extent that there is one.
Rewatching the original TOS episode with fresh eyes shows there’s much more flex in that interpretation.
In a Trek World where I have to accept some of the silly and head-scratching stuff I see in Lower Decks as canon, Gorn consistency is much farther down on my list of Trek issues that I get worked up about these days.
My issue with the Gorn is that I’m not sure what it is they have to SAY about them. The point of “Arena” was to look at something you consider a monster with a different perspective. (I still think it’s a big canon issue that everyone is so unfamiliar with them after all this SNW Gorn action, but the bigger issue, to me, is WHY they did it that way and what the point of it is.) I think they could do every single story they’ve wanted to do without T’Pring (who nobody on the Enterprise knows about later), Kirk’s brother, Kirk himself, etc. They could tell the same stories and explore the same ideas without throwing in names and characters from TOS, let alone emulating a specific episode. All the talent is there both in front of and behind the camera, so why not be original? With Picard, the POINT of season 3 is to send these beloved characters off in a rewarding way, which it did beautifully while also introducing new characters and stories and ideas.
I agree with your comment on the Gorn. However, I don’t think we’ve seen that storyline mature yet so I’m hoping that they make it closer to that TOS- Arena canon point that I agree with you about.
I really don’t have any issues with the other TOS characters being somewhat awkwardly introduced into canon for SNW given that Lower Decks — which we all must accept as canon in the future history of Star Trek — has so many awkwardly introduced, implausible and sometimes moronic character and canon connections — that it has permanently lowered my threshold on what bothers me on canon to the point where T’Pring showing up with all these scenes fits in with that “don’t sweat the small stuff” moniker.
Thank you Laurie. Terrific analysis of an unfortunate trend in SNW’s first season: namely, too much foreshadowing of and reliance on TOS.
I really hope “the powers that be” at Paramount give Pike and company a chance to tell their own stories, rather than treat the whole series as little more than an introduction to some future TOS reboot.
Introducing young (and skinny) Kirk so early in the game was a bad mistake, and a worrisome omen.
Here’s hoping SNW is given a real chance to explore its own strange new worlds.
I don’t think it’s the powers that be, though. I think the showrunners are making the choice because they love it. The truth is, everyone sees something different in Star Trek and the thing that draws one person to it can be a quality another fan doesn’t care for. So it’s likely this is what’s happening here… a different take on what’s worth exploring.
Welcome, and appreciate a shout out to Cape Breton. Lots of Canadians on this board (including Laurie herself originally).
I’m very much feeling like you, that we haven’t been getting enough of the story of Pike’s Enterprise and too much focus on set up for TOS.
I don’t know if you were following earlier conversations but, I’ve decided to love SNW for what it is rather than what I had been longing to see made from the first time I saw the early, cobbled together VHS reconstruction in the 80s.
Regardless, I still found it better than Picard season three.
I’m hoping that perhaps we will get a cool-tones and cerebral show in some era that’s more interested in exploration than legacy/nostalgia connections. That’s the hit from TOS and TNG that I’ve been missing.
Laurie, I understand the feeling, but I am feeling that the Gorn is intended to be a long term payoff.
The light serialization focused on character arcs may be encouraging people to think that everything should have been lined up in that episode, but that would have burnt through the value of the Gorn as a legacy opponent without much reward. Let’s be patient.
As we we saw with the Borg in season two and three of TNG, a major opponent and threat shouldn’t be something that becomes clear in a single episode. People complain that the Borg have become less scary, with overuse. A corollary of that is that you can’t make a villain truly mysterious and scary in a single episode.
What that single first season accomplished was that the Gorn were worthy of leaving La’an with a major trauma, they were a sufficiently strange and novel challenge that they able to kill a character we liked and valued (Hemmer), and that they are not well understood. That’s actually a lot.
Having a sentient species that has evolved with a parasitic egg-laying, non-sentient young, is good biology. It’s also something Roddenberry tried to develop in with his original concept of the Ferengi as mysterious aliens, and which we ultimately saw realized in Andromeda. So, I think it’s very reasonable to try to take this unresolved idea into SNW.
I will also recap a point that I have made previously. Arena is the most ridiculous looking, most memed image of TOS in popular culture. The cool sci-fi idea of what Kirk accomplished in that fight is completely lost to all but the most die-hard fans. Any journey that SNW can take us on to redeem that and put some gravitas back into that iconic scene will be well worth it.
I do hope there’s a payoff.
That is one terrific interpretation TG47, one that has me really rethinking my original concerns with the episode. Like Laurie just below, I’ll keep my fingers crossed that there will be an eventual “payoff” along the lines that you suggest could be coming in future seasons.
If there isn’t, then I’ll remain a bit ticked off by the writers’ sloppy reworking of the Gorns to fit a blatant (but admittedly entertaining) rip-off of “Aliens”.
If the main characters need character arcs, so must the principal antagonists.
I’m really hoping for a slow burn on the Gorn.
But Picard season 3 was not all action adventure it was very much character driven and very heavy dialog. Very little special effects action and was more like a TNG bottle show at times . Nothing like Star Wars at all.J J Abrams movies are Star Wars or Guardians of the Galaxy but not Picard Season 3.
In your view “Best of Both Worlds” is Star Wars then. I don’t think any Star Trek has been as painfull to watch as Picard Season 3 as every episode ended on a cliffhanger and as a serialise story it was torture waiting a week for each episode.
This was a superb send off for TNG because let’s face it that never happened in the 4 movies.
IDIC, I am glad it worked for you.
You were mentioning Picard saying “then I will stay with you”… You just mentioning it triggered me to cry. So, SO powerful. As a father, that’s… undescribable.
I’m glad that worked for you. I never really achieved that emotional connection — it did not seem like their relationship was “earned” to me given the limited amount of time they spent together, and so I did not have much of an emotional reaction to that scene. It just rang hollow and a bit unconvincing for me.
Same here. I care about Picard as Captain (not Admiral) and leader of the TNG crew. Not at all as father or – shudder – once partner to Crusher. Never cared for that relationship.
The problem is that I never came to care about Jack as a person.
Yeah, and I blame the writers, because I do think the dude is a good actor.
I think it’s both the writing and the mist casting of a solid actor.
Making Jack, a person we were supposed to care about, principally a maguffin, plot device, with a dragged out mystery about why the villains wanted him, got in the way of the audience attaching to him as a character in his own right.
However, the writing was there for Beverly and Picard to show their tenderness, their protectiveness for a young adult child.
That could and should have tapped into our vicarious caring as an audience. Why didn’t that work?
First, the performance. Speleers was doing his best to deliver the dashing, cocky, risk-taking, 21 year old with excessive bravado. He utterly failed to show vulnerability.
Unlike Tom Cruise in the original Top Gun or even Harrison Ford in the original SW, and certainly not Mark Hamill.
Perhaps Speleers has been playing hidden villains and psychopaths too long. But even for people like me who haven’t seen all those other performances, I only ever saw an actor trying to act youthful and vulnerable. I never connected with that.
The age of Speleers and many of the supposedly under 25 bridge crew is also an issue, a point of ridicule among 25-35 year olds as far as w can tell, but Speleers in particular presents as older than his 35 years if anything.
So, instead of a youth, feeling like he never fit anywhere, vulnerable to the pull of the Borg queen, we have a character who a good part of the audience feels had agency, made a horrific choice based on petulance and hubris, and in the end gets away with everything.
I can see what they were trying to do with Jack’s character arc. It actually makes sense when I step back and think it through.
Nonetheless, from the number of posts about nepotism and ‘Jack is a mass murderer’ on boards with younger participants, the age group that Jack is supposed to represent doesn’t buy it.
Good points!
The funny thing is — he would make a good young Kirk
I totally agree. I would have loved to have had him as Kirk instead.
He’s got charisma, presence and that ‘not sure which way he’ll jump’ quirkiness that is in both Shatner’s TOS and Pine’s Kirk.
I totally get why the EPs thought he was a good fit for the franchise, I just think that he was put in the wrong role.
I think dropping Michelle Yeoh into the Kevin-verse movie is a better idea than putting an Oscar award-winning actress in a made for TV movie. It makes sense story-wise because Section 31 has featured heavily in those movies and her knowledge of the far-future in the prime timeline would not impact Kelvin timeline.
It was a brilliant idea 3 years ago. But their window to get her for a cinematic feature has passed.
It also sounds like it may have been sufficiently brilliant that it put enough pressure on JJ Adam’s to make an undertaking to match it with a Kelvin movie without her. The first look deal means he was given that opportunity to go first, even if he utterly failed to deliver anything, even late.
If they waited to put her in a Kelvin verse movie, she’ll probably be 70 year old by the time one got made lol.
That’s actually the point of doing the TV movies, the feature side can’t even get a movie off the ground probably because how expensive it is to make the next one. A TV movie can be made faster and muuuuuuch cheaper lol.
And earlier it was suppose to be a TV show (thank Kahless it isn’t anymore ;)), so would that have been better for an Oscar winning actor to do? So this is a much better compromise.
Don’t get Phil started. :-)
Heavily? In what way? It’s mentioned.but I wouldn’t say it was featured heavily,or did I miss something again? lol.
Yeah they were only featured in STID. They weren’t even referenced in the other two.
Last night’s ep has a 9.6 rating on IMDB. This conclusively proves how truly great this ep was. We can now say it’s better than ten of the greatest movies ever made:
The Godfather — 9.2
The Shawshank Redemption — 9.3
Citizen Kane — 8.3
Fellowship of the Ring — 8.8
Casablanca — 8.5
Apocalypse Now — 8.5
Raiders of the Lost Ark — 8.4
Seven Samurai — 8.6
Lawrence of Arabia — 8.3
2001: A Space Odyssey — 8.3
And we can also conclusively say that it is superior to ten of the greatest TV series ever made:
Game of Thrones — 9.2
Star Trek TOS — 8.4
Severance — 8.7
The Expanse — 8.5
The Wire — 9.3
Gunsmoke — 8.1
All in the Family — 8.4
The Mary Tyler Moore Show — 8.2
The Sopranos — 9.2
Seinfeld — 8.9
Congrats to P+, Matalas and the entire Secret Hideout team for giving us one of the greatest achievements in television/cinematic history! Picard Season 3 is going to roll through the awards season — we can expect multiple Emmy awards.
I sense sarcasm. I reach. Also thanks for that great movie/series list, I haven’t seen a bunch of them! There goes the weekend…
Me, sarcastic? LOL — yeah, dude you are correct.
Yea, you can’t go wrong with any of those movies. And BTW, Severance on Apple TV+ is just tremendous science fiction.
Not quite done, but one of our teens is watching that with me now. Severance has some of what they’ve bee missing in the action driven shows.
More to the point, Severance is the kind of cerebral science fiction that Roddenberry wanted to tap in the original pilot The Cage. A mix of Rod Serling, original Twilight Zone, Huis Clos (Satre) existentialism, Forbidden Planet and spaceship adventures.
There should be a place for a movie or limited series with that kind cool cerebral exploration, we seem to have lost the opportunity to include that tone in the franchise.
Agreed!
Danpaine suggested to me to watch Severance and so happy I did. Yeah I agree with all of this. I’m very excited for season 2.
This is why I love this board, people have gotten me to check out great sci fi shows or movies I probably never would’ve watched on my own. You turned me on to Travelers and I think that’s a great show too.
Severance is great. Have you been watching For All Mankind? Phenomenal show. And this one’s over, but if you like time travel sci-fi, check out Timeless, which I just loved. It got canceled after two seasons but they did a wrap-up TV-movie to tie up loose ends.
Actually For All Mankind was one of the reasons I even wanted to sign up to AppleTV (which i got for 3 months free so made it easier lol). Yep absolutely loved it and will sign up again when season 4 come out. It just more proof how great of a writer Moore is.
It was that and the Foundation show (read the novel trilogy) that drew me in originally. I had heard about Severance but it wasn’t on my radar at all until it was suggested to me.
And Laurie we talked about Timeless in another podcast thread lol. Remember, I had suggested that to another member when we got word Annie Wersching had passed. You don’t remember that discussion? Yeah I loved it and was one of the people who fought to keep it on. The movie was well worth it too.
I do remember! D’oh. Hey, how is Foundation? I haven’t watched yet. Read the books decades ago.
Wow sorry this is soooo late Laurie lol. I just read it. But to answer your question Foundation is a great show IF you ignore the books. ;)
It changes so many things from the books, it’s really no point of comparing other than the overall story and some of the characters. But given its a show, it made sense why it couldn’t follow the books the way the time line was laid out and changed it in a way you can follow certain characters as the centuries goes on.
I don’t want to give anything away but basically if you are watching the story never read or ignoring the books, you will probably like it. If you are looking for a closer adaptation to them, then you probably won’t. I would at least watch the first three episodes to get a sense how different it is.
Season 2 starts this summer IIRC.
Indeed, Severance is excellent. Looking forward to S2.
The thing is: even the worst episode of Trek is A LOT more important to me than most movies on that list (okay, maybe not FOTR), but most of this movies I don’t even care about… Best movies of all times? Right. But I’m not into MOVIES in general, I’m simply into space-based scifi and bit of high fantasy… Movies are just a medium… it’s the genre and setting that matters to me.
I used to think I’m a movie buff but I’m not… plain and simple… I’m a Trekkie, Whovian, Warsie… a secondary Ringer and Potterhead, but I care about the content, not the medium. So no… I don’t compete with The Godfather or Apocalpyse Now… They are something else entirely…
Yeah I get that — no problem.
My post was sort of a general sarcastic/numerous response to a couple posts I’ve seen around the Trek Internet sites with some fans celebrating the IMDb rating from the first day of release— which is freaking hilarious, not to mention close to meaningless. I guess I’m too jaded — I should let those excited fans celebrate their magical scoreboard win…lol
Actually the Trek shows definitely seem way more popular than the movies and why those are also rated higher. The shows are just more highly regarded, probably because they can be pure Star Trek most of the time. And I think for most fans Star Trek will always be a TV show first and a movie franchise second.
But I definitely love having both lol.
Interestingly, I’ve seen some stats that TOS is now the highest performing classic Trek series on Paramount Plus.
TOS is still by far the most iconic series of the franchise and has by far the most worldwide interest — and that’s why we’ve got so many shows in that era, including the currently paused movie franchise — the suits know this from their market research .
And don’t expect when the movie franchise does return that they’re going to pick any other area than the TOS era – The suits also know that on average a TOS movie makes about 40% more revenue than a TNG movie.
Great to know! And rewatched The Tholian Web yesterday. :)
I never been a big TOS fan. I only really care about 24th/25th century Trek shows.
But since SNW started, which I really like, I been watching a little more TOS. 👍
I rewatched Balance of Terror after the last SNW episode and I forgot how good it was. Only seen it twice before and last time was in early 2000s.
Yeah the movies are OK but I don’t care if they never made anymore. I really only care about the shows.
There are certainly people who prefer the movies over the shows, but they seem to be in the far minority. And I think not everyone who watches Star Trek wants to keep up with every show and episode which can be a chore lol. I know how you and others feel about the Kelvin movies, but the one advantage is you didn’t have to watch 500 hours of Trek to fully understand everything. It was 3 movies in their own universe telling their own stories. I actually didn’t mind that either, not everything needs constant connections.
Too bad they royally screwed it up and killed it after the second movie, but oh well. I still wouldn’t mind a Kelvin TV movie if a feature is out of the question now.
At least, some nominations.
Section 31 could take place in the Enterprise era (or 20 years after with an older Admiral Archer). That way they can retcon a lot of the Section 31 stuff from Discovery which didn’t make any sense.
Darn you two… I thought I was done crying during the Finale. But a podcast made me cry? LOL
LOL, yeah same.
Wait, you too? When? Tell.
Mostly discussing the last scenes and the return of the E-D really brought it home for me again.
Oh and I love your love for LDS lol. How much you back that show makes me smile. And yes I do hope they put it on Pluto as well. Paramount+ is still on the smaller side of streaming services and there are a lot of people who isn’t even aware of most of these shows. I know, I live in L.A. and I know people who has no idea about any of them outside of knowing there is new Star Trek on but no clue beyond that. It just shows what’s it like to live in the bubble…but also outside of it.
I think a lot of non-Trek fans could love LDS as well.
When? How? Just reminding you of those scenes? TELL!
When Jean-Luc said to Jack that he would stay with him; Beverly scene fired that torpedo. The Seven Scene when she became Captain on the recommendation of Capt. Shaw. I realized later in the day that I probably was emotional because it would have been my Mom’s 96th birthday.
I feel similarly. The amount of melancholy I’m left with after seeing that finale is kind of taking me by surprise. Like I’ve lost a bunch of friends…
Same – not just the end of the series itself, but the parasocial relationships with cast and crew over social media. They’re still around of course, but the ritual checking in before and after episodes comes to a screeching halt.
Watched episode ten again last night. Goes great with whiskey.
Many of your comments go great with whiskey ;)
It’s a gift, and a public service. You’re welcome.
This was an amazing discussion! Thanks guys! :)
Thanks!
Of course! :)
I just want to say that.
1. If the spin off happens please get Elnor on the crew, even if a recast is needed. Saavik survived recasting. I only mention this because I have no idea what the young man who played Elnor has on his schedule. Also, Will Wheaton guest appearance to meet his little brother.
2. Give Laris one of the films to follow up on the Romulan recovery, among other things. Particularly the recovery, which will eventually lead to the Romulan reconciliation and homecoming.
Q’s return was perfect – I totally assumed he would return because his death in S2 was just another badly written part of a very forgetable season.
The continuum would not have allowed his selfless act to go unrewarded, so of course “HE’S BACK”! As I said before, cue the mariachi band!!!
My take is that the Q of S2 of PIC was a MUCH older Q from a distant future who actually died whereas the Q encountered by Jack was a younger version… still looking older… but then this is far too linear thinking… That’s the whole point of what he said to Jack…
Very nice postulating. Who knows what Q can do manipulating time and space, so your theorizing makes perfect sense.
I didn’t see it coming either. I loved it. I don’t consider S2 canon so it works perfectly for me.
Hi Laure and Tony. As ever a great podcast and wonderful discussion. You made some great points and observations. I really enjoyed the finale (a few nit-picks aside) and the season overall has wildly exceeded my expectations. The acting throughout has been outstanding and has featured IMO, career best performances from Jonathan Frakes and Jerri Ryan. The scene when Seven is confronted by Shaw’s performance evaluation moved me to tears, although like you, I was expecting to see Janeway, despite it also being very fitting that it was Tuvok.
A number of my friends who are more casual fans, also noticed the absence of Laris, so perhaps her relationship with Picard should have been addressed however, in a very crowded character space, perhaps it’s best left to the viewer to head cannon how the relationship was resolved.
I made a suggestion to you at the start of the season that perhaps you might consider teaming up with the Shuttle Pod crew to review the season overall as I think that would be a fabulous round table discussion. Also, if you are speaking to Terry Matalas, I’d be intrigued as to his thinking on the Captain Shaw character and in particular, did he have any inkling as to the fan reception? I thought that Todd Stashwick delivered massively in his role and I for one will greatly miss his presence in the anticipated (but not guaranteed) Legacy series.
In the SFX magazine article, Terry M mentions that Shaw is very much in the frame for his hopeful Legacy series, in what form he is not revealing.
Thanks and great to hear.
Discovery series finale update!
The production guild compendiums for Ontario are showing 3 days of production next week for Discovery season 5’s latest pseudonym.
Meanwhile, SNW preproduction is shown as wrapped up and the start date for production in Mississauga is unclear. (It’s clear that location shooting has already happened elsewhere.). One gets the impression that additional production on Discovery needs to wrap first.
Three days doesn’t sound like a lot of shooting for Discovery. In the order of additional scenes rather than a series finale with additional episodes.
Once Discovery completely wraps, do you see them keeping that production team intact to move on to the Starfleet Academy show? Or is there a long enough gap until the Academy show ramps up that they will just start from scratch with assembling a team?
I suspect that Gersha Phillips (costume designer) and her team as well as many of the others will have their hands full with the S31 movie.
Yeoh will surely want the team she knows as will the EP/Director Osunsami as well as the other Toronto-based EPs Siracusa and Weber.
I’m actually wondering if they will ask Tamara Deverell (production designer for the first two seasons once Fuller was fired). Deverell has been mainly doing movies since, and garnered an Academy Award nomination, as well as won craft guild awards from the for her work on Nightmare Alley. She’s Toronto-based.
Osunsami loves working with cinematographer Crescenzo Notarile (Trek asked for Crescenzo right from the start of DSC, but he wasn’t available till s3), but production now seems to really like Jon Joffin’s work — don’t ask me why, they just said it was ‘cinematic’ a phrase that clearly doesn’t mean what it used to — so he might have the inside track, assuming he is not busy (after PICARD he went on to do SCHMIGADOON! season 2.) Though born in South Africa, Joffin is a member of the Canadian guild too.
Seems to me they’re trying to squeeze the Discovery reshoots in before the possible writers strike; WGA contract expires May 1, a strike could happen anytime after that if negotiations break down.
They’ve reportedly only booked 3 days in a 5 day week.
As for May, yes the guild notices are being circumspect.
This was a fantastic ride and I enjoyed the finale. I loved the Borg angle, the emotional scenes, and the launch of a new Enterprise. Terry has done an amazing job bringing these characters stories to an end.
Question:
Would P+ allow two shows with an Enterprise?
I don’t see why not. SNW and the hinted at ST: Legacy are clearly in different era’s.
I´m actually glad it was Tim and not Kate having the conversation with Seven at the end. Seven and Tuvok always had a nice friendship on Voyager. They were both outsiders in a way looking at humans and their emotions. I was glad they got this moment. And maybe it was my imagination but I thought I saw a hint of a hint of a smile on Tuvoks face.
I read an article Matalas badly wanted Kate Mulgrew on the show and would be the one to give Seven the promotion, the production just couldn’t afford to bring in anymore legacy actors. Makes sense.
And yeah it was still fitting it was Tuvok to do it.
Kate is on Prodigy. That´s enough imo.
I’m OK with that too but it was clear the season was setting up for Mulgrew’s return with all the Janeway references and even showing Voyager. Tuvok even said she was involved in the preparation for Frontier Day. So they created the expectation for a lot of fans just to not have her in the end. Sisko wasn’t mentioned once so no one ever expected him to show up (but that definitely would’ve been big if he did lol).
Guinan should definitely have been there (on screen). That was a flagrant omission. Surely they could afford her for a 1 minute scene or she could/should have made herself available.
No I literally think it was a money issue! Seriously. According to an article I read they wanted to bring in more legacy characters like Janeway, Kim and even Soji. And these sounded like they were appearances like a few minutes like we saw Tim Russ playing Tuvok, but Matalas said they just couldn’t afford to bring any additional people.
I think the TNG cast salaries were already stretching things although he did manage to bring in other legacy characters. But when you look at it, outside of the main TNG cast themselves, only Ro was featured for a full episode. Everyone else just had tiny cameos and that’s probably because all they could afford sadly.
Thanks for the info Tiger2. Yeah, I definitely would have liked to see both Whoopi and Mulgrew making perfect cameos and it would have been cool to see Briones make a reappearance too, but I am sure they didn’t have an unlimited casting budget to play with – what show does?
Ok back to the hockey game!
I also read elsewhere that it was planned to finally give Harry Kim his promotion and make it canon by having him included, but the budget wasn’t enough. Too bad more Voyager characters couldn’t be included. I would imagine rebuilding the Enterprise D bridge stretched the budget quite a bit too.
I actually read that too. More proof Matalas is one of us. He seemed bothered over the idea Kim never got promoted on the show and wanted to rectify it. I would’ve loved to have seen Kim. There is still Prodigy and LDS though.
Yeah I think the D bridge, along with having all the main TNG characters back, really stretched everything.
According to The Ready Room it took six months to build the bridge but only had two days to shoot on it. That sounds utterly crazy to spend so much time to make it but only two days use it but maybe stuff like that is common on film sets, especially if you have a tight production schedule.
Shooting quickly is probably quite common on TV productions, but I can imagine that spending six months on building a set is not so common.
Again just guessing here, but they probably didn’t spend six months full time on this. More likely, some people worked on this on and off over the span of six months, including time spent on research (blueprints, colour samples, material samples etc.). The construction crew who actually built this probably was much faster.
Yeah I would think so too. I know zip about this stuff but the D bridge is a pretty small set end of the day. But I do remember reading it took nearly a year to build the (then) Stargazer set before it was the Titan A…and now the Enterprise G lol.
So who knows?
Yeah sucks they couldn’t afford any of those actors to come back. Would’ve loved to see a Captain Kim on Voyager B.
Like the Kelvin cast, a good number of the reoccurring characters on TNG are very active in the business. Academy Award winner Whoopi Goldberg isn’t sitting by her phone, waiting for a call. If she, or the producers couldn’t make it work it’s not a negative reflection on her.
But I don’t think that’s it alone Phil. I think they just couldn’t afford to bring in that many people and probably decided to keep the characters most vital to the story.
Matalas is on the record saying de Lancie appeared gratis.
Speaks volumes as to his character. Great guy IMO.
Agreed and he is smart enough to know that if Legacy gets greenlit, he may have the option to do some more appearances in the future, which I assume would be respectfully paid.
Wow great for de lancie. But that really says it all when they couldn’t pay the guy to be in a two minute scene.
I do wonder how that works. Actors are organized in unions, and I’m sure that there are minimum rates that a production has to pay an actor in order to follow union rules. Maybe they found a way so that De Lancie’s appearance was officially covered by his pay on a season 2 episode.
Loved your review, like all other reviews. I look forward to your podcast every Friday!!
I think it would be cool if during the slow periods, you could do a segment analyzing the Top 10 Best Star Trek Episodes of each series.
I’ll be honest, I’m not a big ranker. I have some perennial favorites and some that shift, based on any number of things.
Besides that kind of list is always just so subjective and you will never get universal agreement from the fans. I mean I don’t think Spock’s Brain is the worst TOS episode, IMO that is Turnabout Intruder. I’d put Spock’s Brain above The Lights of Zetar, and quite a few other episodes as well. Heck I’d rate Spock’s Brain above TNG’s Code of Honor & Justice.
Now I don’t how many people agree with me, but I know it isn’t everyone. I also know the original post was about “10 best” but “10 worst” is just as subjective.
Lol, we’d probably get more agreement with “10 most average”. Really though, I saw a recent list about Trek actors that are real heroes, and Theodore Meir Bikel wasn’t listed. The people held hostage with him on a hijacked airplane disagree.
Great show! Just a couple of points:
(1) We got a Starfleet reckoning coda with Into Darkness and everyone hated it.
(2) I was impressed to read Matalas’ frank appraisal of Generations: “I’m not the one to kill Captain Kirk and bury him under a pile of rocks.” Also not the one to trash the Enterprise D just to satisfy the special effects crew. The pointed farewell to the ship, using the Generations score and the same angle on the center seat, was the last of the feature film wrongs to be settled.
Spot on. I thought the use of “To live forever” from Generations was a wonderful apt touch.
Final thoughts:
I laughed. I cried. I celebrated. I yelled holy **** on several occasions (especially that cool portal weapon). I jumped for joy on seeing the D. I found a new favorite character (Beverly Linda Hamilton Crusher). And loved every second of writing. Every emotional beat. Every ship. This has been an absolute joy!
Now onto SNW, LD, Prod, Disco and S31!
Engage!
You said it KevinB!
Soooo much great stuff this season. Yes some bad, but for me, the good far outweighs it.
And it’s crazy to know we still have a lot of Star Trek ahead of us in the 23rd, 24th and 32nd century who knows maybe another century altogether depending on where Georgiou lands.
Thanks to this season, I’m more excited for the other shows now.
It’s a great time to be a fan! :)
Don’t forget Legacy! While not formally announced, I am sure it is coming. TBH: I am more excited for Legacy than any other show, but I am stoked for SNW and Prodigy as well. The others not so much.