Analysis: ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Season 2 Teaser Shows Una’s Trial, Time Travel, Gorn, And More

Last week, Paramount+ released the first trailer for the upcoming second season of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. Because this was a teaser, and because the show is episodic, the trailer offered a wide variety of moments showing the crew of the USS Enterprise having different adventures. We have pored over the trailer and pieced the big highlights together, adding context along with some educated guesses.

Una sets the stage

Even with the frantic pace of quick moments in rapid succession, there is a bit of a theme holding the trailer together, summarized in a voice-over from Una:

In the mystery and vastness of space, we come together. So many crew members from so many planets, everyone on their own journey.

Una’s trial

Season 1 ended on a bit of a cliffhanger with Una “Number One” Chin-Riley arrested for hiding her genetically engineered past as an Illyrian. The character appears back in uniform throughout the trailer, so this issue likely gets resolved early on in the season. The only hints of this are a couple of shots of a courtroom bell being rung, the same kind used by Starfleet in the TOS episode “Court Martial.”

DETAIL: In one shot next to the bell, a PADD displays Una’s “Classified” Starfleet record.

Home base

Possibly related to Una’s trial, there are a few shots of the Enterprise around Starbase 1, located in the Sol system. This base was seen a few times during season 1 and was first featured in the series premiere.

The Enterprise warps away from Starbase 1.

Klingons… and a prison break?

Perhaps the most noteworthy thing  in the trailer was the appearance of Klingons. Spock can be seen celebrating with Klingon Warriors and drinking Klingon bloodwine.

Strange New Worlds is a spin-off from season 2 of Star Trek: Discovery, which updated the different look of the Klingons featured in the first season. No Klingons have been seen since, neither in seasons 3 and 4 of Discovery nor in the first season of Strange New Worlds. The hair, makeup, and costumes for the Klingons in this trailer is more in line with traditional designs from the Next Generation era.

Later in the trailer, Captain Pike and La’an can be seen surveilling what looks like a Klingon outpost, although it appears to feature an emblem for Starfleet. This could possibly be a prison holding Starfleet officers from the recent Klingon War. The snowy conditions could even reveal this to be Rura Penthe itself.

Later, there is a shot of a Klingon D-7 battle cruiser. The updated design for the classic TOS ship was first seen in season 2 of Discovery.

Kirk goes time traveling with La’an

Paul Wesley appeared in the season one finale as James T. Kirk from a future alternate timeline, and he is back in season 2. Wesley can be seen beaming onto the USS Enterprise.

Kirk is greeted by Number One and La’an, and Kirk and La’an share a look.

Number One notices, saying to La’an: “You have an energy.” When a flustered La’an says “What?” Una replies, “It’s making me sweat.” Season 1 ended with La’an taking leave for a personal mission so it’s possible she got to know Kirk between the two seasons.

The trailer wraps up with La’an and Kirk, showing them in a 21st-century retail store (shot at a Roots store in Toronto). This reveals the season will feature some time travel, something co-showrunner Henry Alonso Myers hinted at a convention last year.

La’an mocks Kirk, asking “Never seen a revolving door before?” to which he replies, “I’m from space.” This is a spin on Kirk’s comment in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home when he tells Dr. Gillian Taylor, “I’m from Iowa. I only work in outer space.”

DETAIL: In the 21st-century setting. Kirk is wearing a different badge, possibly for the USS Farragut. He also has captain’s rank (as he was in the future depicted in the season 1 finale); however at the time of season 2, he would likely still be a lieutenant.

Carol Kane is the new engineer

Academy Award nominee Carol Kane is joining Strange New Worlds in the recurring role of Pelia, the ship’s new engineer, replacing Hemmer who sacrificed himself in season 1. We get a glimpse of her in the trailer, first as she looks over her shoulder, holding a PADD.

DETAIL: The PADD she is holding says “WARNING.”

Pelia doesn’t say anything in the trailer, but she’s been described as “highly educated and intelligent” and someone who “suffers no fools. Pelia solves problems calmly and brusquely, thanks to her many years of experience.” Later in the trailer, Pelia shares a laugh with Spock.

Again with the Gorn

The Gorn were recurring adversaries in the first season and the trailer shows they will be back in season 2. There is a shot of La’an (or possibly Una) face-to-face with one of the lizards.

Gorn ships can also be seen in the background around the saucer of a destroyed Starfleet ship.

Spock and Chapel (in spacesuits) can also be seen inside the ship.

Pike returns to Rigel VII

A clip released last year revealed a visit to Rigel VII, a planet Pike visited in the first TOS pilot “The Cage.” That clip showed Pike, La’an, and Dr. M’Benga having to take a shuttle down to the planet in native costume. Issues with the atmosphere were going to require “incredible skill” to pilot the shuttle, and the bit from the trailer shows them having trouble.

The trio can later be seen traveling on foot, still in their native garb.

Uhura visits a Shuttle crash

Later Uhura visits a shuttle crash in a field with signs of civilization in the background, which would rule out Rigel VII.

Later in the trailer, a shuttle flies low over a green planet, which could be the same shuttle from the crash.

More strange worlds

The series is all about visiting new worlds and civilizations, and there are quite a few trailer shots showing the crew visiting some alien locations. This includes Spock, La’an, and Spock on a desolate world (or moon).

And Christine Chapel checking out an alien chamber.

There are also a couple of aerial shots of alien worlds…

Ortegas gets fancy

Early in the trailer, Captain Pike asks Ortegas, “Ready for some fancy flying, Erica?” and she replies “You know I’ve got this” as we cut to a shot of her and her workstation warning of a proximity alert.

The scene cuts to the ship spinning and cutting through an asteroid.

Cut into the space shots is Spock giving Ortagas a bit of side-eye as she is enjoying herself—but note Pike is no longer in the captain’s chair, so this section of the trailer is likely taken from a different scene in the show.

The Doctor is in

Dr. M’Benga pops up in a few places in the trailer, paired up with different characters. Here he is with Ortegas, sharing a laugh over a meal.

He and Nurse Chapel share a fist bump.

Later, the pair can be seen in a more tense moment.

M’Benga trains with La’an. (Actor Babs Olusanmokun is a black belt in Jiu Jitsu.)

And M’Benga can be seen in anguish.

Character fun

There are quite a few more character beats from the trailer, like this one of Una, La’an, and Uhura sharing a laugh.

Ortegas shows some off-duty style in the lounge.

Ortegas (now in uniform) watches as Sam Kirk and Chapel toast.

Uhura does a little bow on the bridge.

Spock has a moment alone to play his Vulcan lute.


There are a couple of other out-of-context moments showing some dangerous situations. One features an explosion that pulls a crewperson out into space.

A couple of vials of green liquid fall and break open, likely releasing something dangerous.

Spock’s big moment

The trailer wraps up with Spock in the captain’s chair as Ortegas prompts him for his order, noting “Everyone in the chair has their thing.”

After much build-up, he simply says, “I would like the ship to go… now.”

Watch it again

Season 2 will premiere Thursday, June 15 on Paramount+ in the U.S, the U.K., Australia, Latin America, Brazil, France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. The second season will also be available to stream on Paramount+ in South Korea, with premiere dates to be announced at a later date. Following the premiere, new episodes of the 10-episode season will drop weekly on Thursdays.

Check out the trailer. [international version at]

Season 1 of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is currently available to stream exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., the U.K., Latin America, Australia, South Korea, Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. It airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave in Canada and on SkyShowtime in the Nordics, the Netherlands, Spain, Portugal and Central and Eastern Europe. The series is distributed by Paramount Global Content Distribution.

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I’m so excited for the musical episode!

I’m a little more cautious about it but I’m open minded about it for sure if actually they do it. I’m really excited about the LDS crossover though.


LDS is, per showrunner Mike McMahan, the preferred acronym for Lower Decks.

He sees a silly play on LSD rather than a religious movement.

lds is what Kirk said spock did to much of to Jillian in Star Trek 4 Kirk mend lsd and that is another reason McMahan used it as the abbreviation for lower decks as a Easter egg

Some dudes just love that tabernacle choir.

LOL sorry. What TG47 said. Sometimes I forget not everyone is piped in to the shorthand, like how Boimler says VOY to save time (and it totally does ;)).

Looks good but I really wish they would cut back on the high school level lines and attitudes of characters like Ortegas and Uhura. Just feels so out of place and unprofessional to me.

I like Ortegas, but I wish her sarcastic and cocky attitude was less prevalent and kept more for special circumstances. She seems to always be like that no matter what and it’s a little much.

Same. She is a lot much not just a little. I mean I get that this Pike is a happy go lucky Captain and she can get away from stuff but sometimes Pike needs to just stand up and be like ENOUGH like he did in the S1 finale.

So it would be better if she was the opposite of your online personality?

I’m not a Starfleet officer, dude.

You and I would fit in as crew in Lower Decks though.

She’s basically a toned down Tilly, basically there to always be funny.. But I actually like her and can’t stand Tilly.

I’d like to see more of her, in only to see what the actress is capable of. She didn’t get to demonstrate any acting chops in season one. And I really like the fact that someone who has characterized herself as a “struggling” actor gets a gig like this.

I’m fine with that opinion so long as you are consistent and completely reject Lower Decks — given this issue is a magnitude more of a problem on that series? In fact, if that is you opinion, then one would imagine that you would find Lower Decks unwatchable.

Yeah, I am unable to sit thru an episode of Lower Decks. I know it’s a comedy but the antics just don’t resonate with me.

Got it. I totally get and respect your opinion then, my friend.

…exactly the reason I struggle with sitting through an episode of LDS as well.

I love Lower Decks but I have a girlfriend who is like you and can’t get through a single episode.

She cannot stand this show! 😂

I tried to get a coworker into the new shows. He’s an old fan, been watching since 1966 and loved all the classic shows. But he hated the Kelvin movies and refuses to pay for Paramount+ to watch the new shows. And he thinks the new shows are just more ‘Abrams fluff’ as he called it (yes,one of those lol). I finally convinced him (after two years of discussing them) to just give them a chance and to my surprise he actually liked some of the shows, Picard and SNW especially. NOT love them, but think they are OK.

But he absolutely hates Lower Decks with a passion lol. He calls it god awful dumb. That show and Discovery he doesn’t like and refuses to watch them. Thinks Prodigy is OK and likes having Janeway on it but can’t get into that one too much either. But he at least thinks its a good show, just not for him. But he can’t stand LDS at all. And given his age, I can definitely understand that too. And a big reason I think he hates the Kelvin movies as well.

But yeah,I always say this, Star Trek fans are not a monolith. We will all love and hate certain things. I completely understand this and probably why I don’t get triggered when a stranger on a message board likes or hates something I don’t. ;)

Yeah exactly. I’m just happy my girlfriend like any Star Trek. Two years ago she wouldn’t watch any of it. Now she watches a lot of it.

But she can’t gat into LDS because she’s not into animated shows and can’t stand Mariner. And we have very different taste in TV shows in general; although I don’t really like animated shows either, but love both LDS and PRO so go figure?

I am a little disappointed she can’t get into DS9 though. She thinks it’s a good show just not for her. TOS is just too old for her but she’s seen a few. But she really likes TNG, VOY and ENT. I told you her dying devotion to Neelix lol. Hates Mariner but Neelix, one of the worst characters in Star Trek IMO is her favorite.

Those are the only shows she watched all the way through so far.. Enterprise is her second favorite after TNG….we are soooo different lol

She also loved Picard season 3. It’s the first season of that show she ever watched because I told her the first two were crap. But she loved the season as much as I did.

So I’ll happily take that! 👍

Wow I think your girlfriend has seen more than mine have lol. But she’s seen a bit of everything across the entire spectrum at this point. And funny enough Picard season 3 was the first NuTrek we also watched together from beginning to end. Never watched the first two episodes either. All the other new stuff she might watch a few episodes with me if she’s around but never a whole season until now. As for old shows, Voyager is her favorite and seen all of those. TNG is next and seen most.. And kind of a three way tie between DS9, TOS and ENT and will say at last half of all of those.

She thinks LDS is good but a lot of the jokes goes over her head like when we watch the first Crisis Point episode. I was laughing so hard but she didn’t get a lot of it because she hadn’t seen many of the movies at the time. But she actually loves all the characters, mostly Tendi and Rutherford.

Oh I forgot to mention my coworker hates LDS but his grand son loves it and never watched Star Trek before. He’s 17. So it proves A. The show probably works better for younger people (which it was designed for ;)) and B. You don’t have to be an ultra Trek nerd to enjoy it either.

I don’t know if he watched more than the first season though. That’s where he was when he told me was watching it.

Meant never watched the first two seasons.

It’s funny because I mentioned a similar thing on another site. This was back in season 1 of Lower Decks and a guy I worked with was a Trekkies but only watched the old stuff too. We struck up a conversation about the new stuff. He liked the JJ verse movies outside of STID but hated both DIS and PIC (get in line).

Lower Decks just started and I asked him what he thought of that and he said he didn’t watch it but wanted my thoughts. I told him I was enjoying it so far (it was only on it’s third episode) and told him to at least try it.

He took my advice and a week later I saw him again and he hated it. He didn’t like it at all either and thought it was too juvenile. I even felt bad I recommended it lol. But it was cool he at least gave it shot. We just went back to talking about the old shows again. Never brought it up after that.

Now cut to months later and I get a random text from him one day that said he had binged the whole season and said he was wrong about the show. He now loved it since he got to watch more episodes and that the show was fun and very Star Trek at it’s heart. I was stunned! 🤣

It’s nice he went back and didn’t judge it just on the first couple of episodes. And he was reading other boards that was praising the season and why he gave it another shot.

We don’t work together anymore but we still chat through texts about Star Trek sometimes and he’s still a big fan and even liked season 3 more than I did. 😎

Sorry that this is SUPER late lol. Never checked again after I wrote my last response to you at the time, but that is a great story. I do like it when people are open minded to give something another chance even when it doesn’t appeal to them the first time. That specifically what happened with me and Enterprise so I know exactly how he feels. I doubt you will ever read this but just wanted to say that.

LD is a comedy…………

It’s canon — CBS stipulated so. So, comic moments and everything else we see as to be taken as events that happened in Star Trek’s future history just as anything we see in any of the live action series’.

I do agree with you on this. I didn’t connect with Ortegas in season one for this reason.

I really wish they would fire all writers associated with all Star Trek since about 2005. It’s all juvenile schlock – from 2009’s adolescent nonsense to basically everything spewing out of the characters’ mouths in modern Trek. Red Letter Media’s review of the finale of Picard has a lot of great clips of the stupid stuff the SNW characters say, from Pike’s beaming into the alien senate with a “Hiiii” to Uhura’s fangirl “coool” to Spock’s whole “I would like the ship to go – now,” it’s all played for cheap laughs, not at all the way professionals act. Star Trek is a workplace drama, but these people are an HR nightmare

If Picard season three had given us real TNG-quality ‘competence p@rn’, I might go along with the point.

The younger Titan bridge officers were ‘sufficiently seen but not heard’ like idealized Victorian-era children that they seemed to have nothing to contribute – all to provide opportunities for Jack to show them up when they weren’t completely ignored by Picard’s complement who had taken over and didn’t seem to need their input or expertise.

As much as I liked Frakes and Spiner’s performances, we had some rather awkwardly forced humour lines. Those digging the nostalgia gave them a pass, but they weren’t great. Several of those delivered by Stewart seemed to never quite get the right delivery even with ADR. (‘Those were the days…’ is one example.)

Stewart’s problem isn’t age so much as fragility. It’s not his fault; everyone ages differently. I remember someone talking about season two and how they felt Stewart’s lack of energy brought down scenes and actually hurt the show since he was the main character.

I said this before during first season, but I honestly think the way they talk on this show is a over correction of the complaints of Discovery and Picard got early on. Those shows had the characters talk in overly serious tones and very adult language dropping F bombs etc. Comedy was there but most came off a bit dour and moody.

I feel SNW wanted to go the opposite way and make the characters a bit more light and fun overall. And we have to remember that’s how Pike was introduced on Discovery itself. He was the ‘cool dad’ captain and had a fun quip about everything and fans really took to it. So when it came to make the show, they kind of did that for all the characters I guess.

And while Picard S3 wasn’t perfect, I thought they handled the dialogue so much better. There were constant jokes all the time, but when it was time to put on their serious game faces on, they felt like more professional people in a crisis again. I think they handled the light and dark balance a little better.

Yeah Pike and Spock had a serious bromance going on in DIS S2 and I kinda feel like TPTB extended that feeling to the entire command crew. I really do hope it is toned down in S3. I’m fine with the rest of the crew but Ortegas is like over the top. Even Pike thought so in the season finale.

I have no issue with how they talk on Strange New Worlds and I shake my head when people complain about it.

Especially from the same fans who claim Orville is the best modern Star Trek show.

To be honest I don’t think that many people really complain about it that much though. I think most people are like you and are fine with it.

And this is a pet peeve of mine. And I have an issue with it on Lower Decks as well which is waaaaay worse lol. But neither one is that big of a deal to me either, but I definitely notice it.

Oddly enough I don’t have an issue at all with it on the Orville so go figure lol.

People probably don’t have an issue with it on Orville because it’s a comedy and it’s isolated in its own universe. It lives in a bubble.

More people have problems with SNW and LDS because those are an extension to a much bigger universe and where the other shows were more serious and even felt a bit militaristic at times.

But I don’t have a problem how they talk on SNW or Lower Decks because they are supposed to be more comedic. SNW isn’t a direct comedy but it’s pretty light. The line Spock says at the end of the trailer would fit Lower Decks perfectly.

I do wish they made Pike a little more serious sometimes though and a bit less dad jokes. He’s still the captain but you’re right they wanted a much lighter and cheerful show I guess.

Yeah, I agree with this as well. Great points!

I honestly found Ortegas more tolerable as an intolerable bigot in the alternate Balance of Terror timeline. At least there the writers weren’t treating her like a quipping pull-string Bart Simpson doll from 1991 and more like a real person. Just dial it back a few notches and she’s fine.

In other words, be like Sidney La Forge.

Also agree. I love the show but I wish they sounded a bit more professional as well.

This dated language isn’t how people even talk in 2023. It’s a 50-year old’s concept of what twentysomethings sound like and it’s stuck in the 2009-2014 range.

Yeah, why can’t they talk normally for twentysomethings like they do on Lower Decks.

Except for “looks good” I disagree with everything you said. In the strongest possible way. I disagree with your assesment of the lines, the characters, and the writers.

The fact is, the overly professional, stolid dialogue of older Trek is probably something they identified as a barrier for attracting a bigger audience, and a younger audience.

They can be fun and lively and laid back, but when the story calls for it they get serious.

I think of it like a police procedural like NCIS or something.

OK fine but like actually make the lines funny. There’s nothing funny or naturalistic about the way the modern characters are written – it all lands like painfully unfunny attempts at humor. I call it “millennial humor” in that it’s written to appeal to a “millennial” sensibility, which is frankly just cringe humor, stupid stuff.

Compare the trainwreck of modern Trek writing to the actual, brilliantly executed humor of The Voyage Home, or even the best of TOS, where sure it’s kinda hammy, kinda campy, but at least arises naturally, and is actually laugh out loud funny. Not this juvenile quippy, cringy attempt at cheap laughs. Make us like the characters by liking what they do and how they do it, not because they’re attempting to clown around on the bridge because they’re having “fun.” It’s literally making me not watch Star Trek. Professional dialog, or actual adult dialog, whatever you want to call it, is and always will be a million times more interesting and enjoyable to watch.

So you do care?

Glad you brought this up. My thoughts exactly.

Agreed. These are Starfleet officers. They need a more professional attitude.

I really liked SNW, nothing really major to complain about. My only wish? More Una please. How can you have the fabulous Rebecca Romijn and not use her? That was bloody scandalous.

Maybe it was her choice?

She’s the third lead in the show, that doesn’t make any sense. I think the writers were so enamored with Spock that they basically made him no. 1 to Pike. I don’t really blame them because as we all know Spock is a great character but come on they need to fit Una in somewhere. She has potential.

Season one was produced at the height of the COVID pandemic. It’s possible that limited her availability.

Her availability at the height of the pandemic was limited, by her choice.

Agreed Number One is awesome, they need more of her!!! Curious to see where she moves on, this might open the door for TOS / TMP era stories on other ships, assignments, etc.

In the Relaunch novelverse, Una gets an arc of stories.

Worth checking out, and it seems SNW may be pulling bits of that into canon, not just her name.

One thing that I think you would enjoy is that, on an extended time away, Una becomes involved in the development of the next generation of ship’s main computers. This was an in-universe explanation why Una’s voice was used for all the computers through to TNG.

Was she ever an Augment in any of the novels or is this just something new for the show?

Illyrians are something else in the books, but there are parallels with this storyline.

There has clearly been a decision to take on the unfortunately extreme position DS9 left us with Bashir.

It’s probably because she is so friggin busy! between her and her husband they have Star Trek(s) the Love Boat, etc..

Interesting that season two of all three current live action shows have shown glimpses of the 21st century: DSC with “New Eden” and the video footage of World War III, PIC with most of the season taking place in 2024, and SNW with an apparent trip to a 21st century retail store.

It’s called keeping costs down.

LOL true, didn’t think about that.

It’s kind of at cross purposes to the internal story on the show. The PICARD s2/3 production designer told me he wasn’t bringing them back to our time, but to Trek’s 21st century as seen in PAST TENSE. He was serious about being true to what had been established, which sounded very refreshing after all the times we’ve seen people flush the established designs down the toilet in order to do something different (TMP- lighting from the floor, aesthetically grotesque esp w/ aging actors, and a transporter room designed to frighten rather than awe; TSFS – having to push a button to get the elevator to move; TUC – stereo mixing consle in the helm; 09 – turning the bridge into a Target cosmetic aisle where you’d need shades just to read your displays and the friggin’ BREWERY; countless others if I put my mind to it.)

Nice shot of Ripley and the xenomorph.

Well we had Data Calrisian take down the Deathcube just last week.

I was half-hoping that Data would ‘bump’ the ship inside the cube on the way out and have to endure somebody shouting, ‘don’t get cocky!’

Lol, yeah! :-))

My only complaint is Sam Kirk’s mustache.

P0rn star stache in space….boldly blow where no one has blown before.

It’s better than having Wesley with the stache on. ;)

Oh GOD, I can’t unsee it now!


Thank goodness, any more of this cartoon sitcom and Star Wars Trek stuff and my head is going to explode…lol

There’s going to be cartoon stuff in SNW season 2….

Well I can hold my nose for 10 min of that ep…perhaps I will just close my eyes and listen to the audio until the characters become live action.

Er… what?

I’m really looking forward to that episode! LD bb.

If Kirk is romantically involved with Khan’s descendant, that makes “Space Seed” make even less sense retroactively than it did in season one. Sometimes, I really feel like SNW’s writers are purposely screwing with continuity. I do love SNW, but between Li’an’s existence, the new Xenomorphic Gorn, and the fact that Chapel and Uhura know T’Pring, this show does not mesh with TOS.

Given all the nonsensical issues with Pic and Lower Decks stuff, this all seems so relatively minor now. Three years ago, yeah, this would have bothered me. Now, it’s sort of in the “don’t sweat the small stuff” category for me. YMMV

I still can’t figure out what was even the point of making La’an a Noonien Singh other than for ‘fan service’? You make her La’an Cooper or Kelly and you lose literally nothing last season and it’s waaay less distracting.

As far as the other stuff, I stop trying to make it work with TOS canon by episode 5 once T’Pring came onboard the Enterprise. It doesn’t really make any sense but I’m fine if it doesn’t, as long as it’s still a good show. That said, maybe they will tie some of those things closer next season, but not holding my breath.

Doug Drexler views this as an alternate timeline with the NX-01 as a constant in the Prime, Kelvin and Discovery timelines. Terry Matalas seemed to run with this idea in Picard season 3 with what we see and don’t see at the Fleet Museum. TOS, DS9, TNG, Voyager and the first 8 films are all represented at the museum (except the Sovereign class which we see elsewhere). Missing in action? Starfleet vessels which appeared in Discovery and SNW. They should just make it official and allow the writers to take SNW in any direction that they want (and keep us off of their backs).

That’s freaking hilarious, given his development of the NX-01 was a complete retcon of GR’s design for the first Enterprise — which was actually established in canon in TMP.

Drexler should have stuck to make-up. The only reason he got to mess up Trek starships is because Berman was too cheap to pay Probert to come in and give us a bold design, consistent with GR’s intentions and TMP canon, and not that incrementalistic, embarrassing piece of shit that is called the NX-01.

Not a chance in Hell that Berman would ever have had Probert back, there was no love lost there on either side. I talked to Probert on the phone once and he reiterated a lot of what was mentioned in that STARLOG SFX (vol 4?) and then some, how Berman wouldn’t go vertical with starship orientation or anything that might confuse the dullest viewer.

Have you seen some of Probert’s unused work? He did designs for an unmade version of David Gerrold’s YESTERDAY’S CHILDREN that was called STARHUNT, and as a serious devotee of the revised version of that novel (not the total reworking that became the STAR WOLF series years later) it worked.

Yeah, I love what he conceptualized for Starhunt.

Probert is/was a tremendous talent. It’s a shame that Berman could not deal with that, and both get along as well as pay the man to give us a bold design for the NX-01 instead of that incrementalist, piss-poor design from that make-up artist.

I had interviewed ILM art director Alex Jaeger about FIRST CONTACT, for which he designed several new class of starship to be featured in the Borg battle (only four went forward), including the Akira. When the NX 0t reveal came, i was stunned that it was so close to the Akira.

Yeah, now I remember that!

Agreed. The NX-01 was the chance to do a pretty cool Enterprise with armor, laser turrets, nuclear missiles, reactors, engines, shuttle/fighter bay being paramount, a hard sci-fi version of the Enterprise that potentially could have been cooler than, dare I say it, the 1701. Instead we got the Akiraprize in space… ugh, just ugh.
On the plus side the canon 1701 and her refit stand alone in their awesomeness.

I don’t think about ENTERPRISE much except when it comes up in discussion here, but that post reminds me of just one of many ways that the show completely disappointed and frustrated me with its approach and execution. They really had a wonderful notion for a pre-TOS series and they absolutely blew it. In retrospect, I should have known that by going with Braga instead of Moore, they were trying for weird stuff rather than verisimilitude.

Well said!


Yeah I’ve seen Doug Drexler on a few YouTube Trek channels…that guy is hardcore lol. He definitely has specific ideas about how he sees the newer shows.

As far as SNW doing what they want, aren’t they already doing that? They are really not following TOS canon in any strict way. The ship looks nothing like the original’s interior for example at all except the bridge. Pike is living in quarters both the size and as fancy as a luxury Penthouse suite on Fifth Avenue. I’m sure Kirk feels unappreciated when he was assigned the single bed dorm room for his quarters lol. It’s obvious Spock and Chapel are going to get something happening when the point of TOS is that Chapel’s feelings were always unrequited. I don’t remotely buy Pike and Kirk knew each other when Pike was still on the Enterprise. Nor did Kirk’s brother ever served on it. Uhura was just a communications officer, not an expert linguist, but that was held over from the Abrams movies I guess. Everyone has talked ad naseum about the Gorn.

And most of this doesn’t bother me (OK, the Gorn does lol, but I accepted it). I understand they are just trying to make a modern and more interesting show.

But it really is a stretch in terms of canon. I think SNW is tied to TOS juuuuust enough to say it belongs in the Prime universe but in reality it probably would fit better in an alternate universe. And I’m not one of those weirdos who say it isn’t canon. I fully accept all the shows exist in the Prime universe because they are just shows. But you can’t deny the reality it’s only following canon in the broadest strokes either. I don’t think it’s going to get to the end of it’s run and feel it will line up with TOS much outside of Pike leaving the ship basically.

it kind of feels abit similar to what the recent Planet of the Apes movies were to the original 60s/70s films .. (altho those are supposed to be a complete reboot they still tried to tie in with the OG chronology in broad strokes)

but SNW couldve done (or not done) just a few odd things to tie in better with TOS (ship design, no Noonien Singh, no kirk bro, no Kirk! at least not until the final episode – which couldve been DF 1966 Shatner) they probably wouldve been ‘more TOS’ had SNW come about on its own, but having spun off from Disco which shook Trek up so much (basically started out as a near reboot of TOS era in everything but name, or like a spin off of the Kelvin films) its like everyone is thankful/relieved its as faithful to TOS as it is lol (and the discrepancies can be sort of worked around/explained away/cmon its bring made in the 2020s now etc)

Yeah I agree with all of this. But your point about Discovery just feeling so off brand to the Trek universe in general is probably especially true. By the time SNW showed up, most people were just happy it at least looked like it belonged in the TOS era again. Look how excited people were over the Klingons lol. Yes, they didn’t look like that during TOS itself, but it was the TOS movies that started that look of the Klingons and that’s all most people wanted.

But as I said, I think most people are either OK with the canon issues or simply accepted them. I think the same would’ve happened to Discovery if people just liked the show more. But then the changes just felt so drastic to some with that show, maybe nothing would’ve ever convinced them. And the producers seem to have agreed.

Agree with all of this. And I think they’re doing a large disservice to the show as a whole by including JTK. As you and many others have said, they should have waited until the last episode of the last season for him to walk through the door. Of course I knew the show runners just couldn’t help themselves, but I’m kind of bummed they did it nonetheless.

And the new Kirk straight up sucks. Everytime the guy talks I start to feel sleepy. 🥱

Yeah I think Kirk sucks too. Hopefully he’ll be a big improvement next season.

I’ve said this to you before but I am seriously hoping it is because he was an alt timeline Kirk in the finale and this season he will be much more Shatner like. I mean the actor had to be picked for some reason and I don’t think he looks like 60’s Shatner in the slightest.

Let’s hope so man, but he still felt deathly boring to me in this trailer too. The line he said at the end was funny but it still delivered so flat. If Pike said it would’ve been so much funnier.

This guy just has no flair.

I wish I could disagree but I can’t. Truthg be told tho I didn’t like Pine as Kirk till Beyond when he started actually basing his character off Kirk and not Han Solo. Truth be told, love him or hate him, Shatner is a hard person to replace.

Same for me and Pine. It wasn’t until Beyond he really felt like Kirk to me too. It’s probably another reason I like that movie while hating the other two.

The Han Solo thing should be saved for Star Wars and not Star Trek but leave it to Abrams to totally not get it or care. 🙄

I couldn’t believe my eyes way back when that I read the article on this site that Chris Pine said his inspiration for Kirk was Harrison Ford! Like, what?!?!? THat’s like saying you are going to base your portrayal of Superman on Iron Man.

Yeah, I think having him in the final season would’ve made more sense. Not the last episode, that would’ve been the most ideal but no way would that have happened lol. But now we have to believe Pike and Kirk have known each other five years before he took command and like many, I think that’s ridiculous.

But yes, I always knew he was going to show up very early on. I was already predicting he would show up in season 2 once the show was announced. In fact I found one post of mine not too long ago where I told someone don’t be surprised to see him show up in the first season finale, and also before we knew Kirk would even be on the show.

And sure enough. ;)

Again, why I don’t love prequels because they just can’t help themselves.With sequels you can throw in whoever you want as long as they are not dead…but as we know with Star Trek and saw multiple times on Picard this season not even THAT stops them lol But it’s been nostalgia bait since 2009, so no one should be surprised about anything we seen in the last five years.

Yep in many ways this show doesn’t really stick to canon all that much so I get why some people don’t like it or just pretend it’s in another universe.

I’m not really a TOS fan so it doesn’t really bother me. I don’t care about the Gorn stuff not fitting into canon at all because the episode Arena always felt super silly to me. But I get why it bothers others.

And I really like the show, not as much as I like Lower Decks or Prodigy but it’s definitely the best live action show in NuTrek .So like you I didn’t really care too much about the canon because it’s a fun show to watch.

But his views are wrong. That’s not me talking, that’s the producers of ST 2009 and SNW and PIC. They have consistently said that ST 2009 is in its own universe that was created by the Red Matter black hole. Note I use the word ‘universe’ and not ‘timeline’. Too many people get that messed up. A separate universe, like the mirror universe, is different from the nanoseconds of the Big Bang. ST 2009 might have had a NX-01 and such, but it was not the same one.

As for SNW and PIC Kurtzman has consistently said this is the Prime universe.

No offense to Doug Drexler but he doesn’t get to make those decisions about entries into Trek that are not his.

No offense to Doug Drexler but he doesn’t get to make those decisions about entries into Trek that are not his.

Doing makeup was his first, best destiny (in fact, he won awards for that). He had zero business getting involved with starship modeling, and I certainly don’t consider him as qualified to comment on the canon/universe issues in Star Trek.

Deciding whether to use “Spicy Peach” or “Salmon” to lighten up Lal’s cheeks on TNG, sure, he’s great at determining that. Designing starships and determining Trek canon, not so much.

To be fair he’s not saying that’s how the franchise is made up in reality, that’s just how he sees them, which is fine. And yes, a lot of people agrees with him. Go to some of these interviews he’s given on YouTube and read the comments. There are some pretty bitter people out there. I really love listening to Drexler over how passionate he is and his contributions to Trek, but to me these kinds of statements just divide the fan base more.

Of course the guy is entitled to say what he thinks, but when you are so involved in the franchise, you know your words are going to carry more weight to an already divided fanbase. Ask the guy who threw out the ‘25% difference’ statement a few years ago. Some fans took that statement and ran away with it even though CBS themselves debunked it. Even now you still hear it. I got into an argument with someone on another site who quoted me that when explaining why SNW looks different a month ago. And people wonder how can others believe morons like Trump when he says the election was stolen without a single proof of evidence.

Unfortunately people will believe anything if they hear it from the ‘right’ people and it falls in line with their viewpoint. Same deal here.

I really wish they put Discovery in another universe too. It would be easier for me to ignore it. 🙄

I agree that he is entitled to his ops but I also completely agree that when you are so involved with a franchise people are going to take what you say as gospel whether you are stating an opinion or fact and whether that is your position to say or not.

EXACTLY !!! And no one should be an apologist for this sort of nonsense. This is simply unacceptable.

Quite frankly even if Rick Berman came out and made a statement today that Discovery and SNW were separate universes, I wouldn’t take his say on it either. This is no longer either or their franchise. About the only voice I *might* listen too is Rod Roddenberry. But even then, he is a current producer so he would have the cred beyond his legacy to state as such.

I agree!

I agree with you and Tiger2 as well and I wouldn’t care if Discovery was in another universe. But it’s not, so have to respect it.


It was important in the episode where we found out that Number One is an augment, but otherwise it hasn’t really mattered so far. Hopefully, La’an’s heritage will be important in future stories involving Number One’s heritage.

It will probably be brought up next season again since Una is arrested for being an Augment.

I’m hoping Admiral Janeway shows up from the future (her and Pike have that in common) and convince them to let her serve. 😉

Yes, exactly.

Given that Noonian is Chinese for “Gifted One” and Singh is an incredibly common name, I don’t think he would make the connection.

Especially with how protective she is of her “Family History”. Are you known because of your ancestor from 200 years ago?

Also, if you were descended from that big of a war criminal who launched himself into space you would 100% bury that lead.

Only she made it clear back in episode three people knew about her ancestry and connection to Khan as far back as grade school and got bullied for it. She said kids called her ‘augment’ or ‘monster’ the second they heard her name. Also remember Una knew about it too which probably means everyone on the ship knows about her past. It sounds like that surname is still strongly associated to Khan in the 23rd century just like someone would stand out if their last name was HItler today.

And this is what really annoys me. Why put yourself through these silly gymnastics in the first place? We have to pretend someone like Kirk would be totally ignorant of her ancestry but the show is only using that name to attach it to Khan, so what’s the point? And as I just stated, they already make it pretty clear it’s not even a secret. In fact I wouldn’t blink if Kirk either already knows about it or she just tells him in an episode.

It’s a reboot. They’re just too cowardly to come out and say it.

Yes agreed. I’ve said this a thousand times already, especially when DIS was in this period, but I just don’t understand the issue of saying that? I don’t think people will suddenly stop watching any of these shows over it, especially if they like them, but whatever.

At Disco’s launch, the issue was almost certainly related to the movie-TV split at the corporate level and JJ had the movie reboot and the TV people had always wanted a continuation rather than a reboot, so that’s what they did, only for some reason, CBS hired the movie reboot guy to continue their TV IP.

Let’s not pretend that Paramount has ever been well-managed, particularly where Star Trek is concerned.

Well then…make it feel like a real continuation and not a reboot. That was probably DIS biggest knock at the time, among others. I will say SNW at lest looks and feels like the prime universe again (they even gave them the right Klingons this time ;)) and probably for most people that will feel like enough. But yeah this is my issues with prequels in general, either try and stick to canon as much as possible or just don’t bother. But it’s a good show, so I’m willing to overlook most of it.

But the Noonian Singh thing is still very eye rolling to me. And I’m just so sick of hearing about Khan in general. It’s still crazy to know in classic Star Trek, his name was uttered only twice out of 700+ episodes not counting Space Seed and TWOK. I really miss those days.

Good points, my man.

Also, we gotta love seeing some of the same fans who drooled all over Picard S3 complaining about one character on SNW being fan service…lol, that’s just so precious! :-))

I cried when I saw the 1701. And then I cried over Spock.
Just kidding, I DO enjoy seeing the final frontier when starships aren’t a dime a dozen and space is still wild with primative ships and non technobabble solutions. Also relatable enjoyable characters. And damn that bridge and starship look good.

Yeah dude, me too!

Every Star Trek made after season two of The Original Series is fan service. Quite literally.

I hear what you’re saying, but my definition of fan service would not be as broad as that.

TBH I think I would stop watching. We live in an era in hollywood where everything is getting a “reboot” Sometimes it is an actual reboot like BSG, sometimes its not like Quantum Leap, and somewhere it is in the middle like ST 2009.

Frankly I think reboots are lazy. I am well aware of course how much canon baggage Trek has. Probably more than any franchise, sci fi or otherwise. But… it’s not hard to follow canon. La’an does not have to be a Nooien Singh. It would change nothing. The Gorn? Just name them something else. Time travel? DON’T DO IT! You don’t need to be a reboot or worse break canon and be in universe. Just be smart for 5 minutes.

Writers are always like, “wah wah we are so bothered by canon”. No, you’re really not. You have Memory-Alpha. You have TONS of Trek resources. Heck, just hire a Trekspert to tell you when you are screwing up or not.

Believe it or not, minus the way the NX-01 looked and its registry number, I thought ENT did a pretty decent job of following canon and gave in universe reasons for when it didn’t. Shows like DISCO just don’t care and ask us to accept it. I’m refusing to do so. Canon means something to me. Because if you say, oh suddenly the events of Space Seed don’t make sense anymore, I can’t just go back and rewatch it and have the same feels.

For the record, I’m not saying that Star Trek should be rebooted or anything. I’m perfectly happy with seeing more stories in the Prime universe like most people. And in fact I believe you can just do both and reboot a show in another universe and still tell stories in the Prime universe, which is exactly was the idea of the Kelvin universe and the Prime universe. One would be rebooted to use old characters and tell new stories with but still have the old universe to tell continuing stories of new and old characters. That was literally what they were already doing. I would never suggest the Prime universe would just disappear and relegated to mothballs or anything. No way would that fly.

But I remember allll the moaning by some fans that the prime universe had become too convoluted. It was just too much Star Trek. The Berman era has become so dominant how can anyone make any new Star Trek again, blah, blah, blah. That was the argument at the time when the first Kelvin movie was announced and people thought this was a chance to start fresh and build new canon. And I was all for that btw, I just never remotely believed that meant the prime universe would be abandoned because you have to be a moron to push aside a 40 year old universe that has brought in billions of dollars for the company with merchandise alone. But I definitely agreed for new fans, it probably was smart to start from the ground up.

Which is why when Discovery was announced, I thought it would’ve just been better to put that in its own universe like the Kelvin movies because I knew it was going to be a mess lol. The second it was announced it was going to start ten years before TOS sounded like an AWFUL idea because I knew none of it was going to really fit TOS or the prime universe in general. Bryan Fuller described the show early on as a ‘reimagining’ which is basically just a euphemism for reboot. My guess has always been Fuller just wanted to reboot Star Trek and start from the ground up and CBS was like heeeellllll no, so the ‘compromise’ was just tell everyone it takes place in the Prime universe but still do whatever he wanted and we saw how well that worked out lol.

But I get it obviously, for many fans, it’s not ‘real’ Star Trek unless it takes place in prime. And I know that’s why some fans had issues with the Kelvin universe…but everyone still watched them right? But I always said if they decide to just remake TOS from scratch they will have to reboot it. SNW works well enough because it’s not quite TOS (but close enough lol). But another full on TOS show (or even a TNG reboot which will probably happen some day) will have to be its own thing and not be a slave to 50 year old canon and that only works in another universe which ironically was the entire point of the Kelvin movies; but those had other issues too.

The reason why JJ verse failed to get more old Trekkies to care about it is because they turned that universe into Marvel type action movies out of the gate. The more thoughtful stories of TOS, TNG and the others did was replaced with a lot of CGI, lens flares and Kirk doing space jumps. It looked cool, but zero substance outside a few scenes. I describe those movies as junk food Trek, feels toasty and filling when you try it, but doesn’t stay with you.

If they tried to bring a little substance with a show based there maybe more wouldn’t look at it with so much disdain.

And most fans really only want the prime universe and all the canon they built up between the 22nd-25th century.

But if they decide to make another universe for newbies, I’ll give it a shot, but Prime universe will always be Trek’s true home and will never truly be replaced.🙂🖖

Sure I definitely think that was a part of it. But I really just think it’s hard to replace something you been loyal to for literally decades (and still very invested in) and that apples to Star Trek as a whole.

But as I always stress, JJ verse was always meant for new fans first and foremost. They simply calculated that old fans will gravitate toward it too but the movie series would ultimately live and die by the new fandom….and we saw it do just that lol.

Not saying it’s dead forever or anything (nothing ever fucking dies in this franchise…Matalas made that clear multiple times last season lol). I’m more than certain we’ll see it again, the question is in what form?

But yeah, the Prime Universe is probably what fans will consider ‘real’ Star Trek because of all the history and content in it, and it gets bigger every year now. I really do believe they can reboot it completely and fans will watch it. But the danger is trying to replace the Prime universe completely for something new…and that will be suicide if they ever tried it. ;)

But treat it all as one big multiverse which it now is, dude you can expand Star Trek in all kinds of crazy ways that would excite people for years if not decades to come.

I definitely agree with this too. For everyone who grew up with TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY it’s hard to let go. I didn’t start watching Star Trek until VOY in season 4 and I was already in college and I can’t let go lol. Imagine if you started watching it at 5. And if you started off with TOS and TNG at those ages the nostalgia runs deeper for sure.

I still think JJ verse being all hype and little substance is why most fans don’t care about those movies today. I know they have their fans of course but I bet if you asked fans if they only had one universe they could watch it wouldn’t be close to a contest.

But I know if you became a fan because of those movies that would be different for them. But since it’s only those movies and nothing else so far, I’m not sure if most of them will choose it?

And I like the idea of a bigger multiverse too. But it has to be treated that way and not just a closed off reboot like the Batman Nolan films did. That is the one thing JJ verse did really right but they probably thought they had to do it that way to keep the old fans happy.

Ya know, I acvtually thought the reboot but not really a reboot aspect of ST 2009 was brilliant. Other than Spock being WAY too emotional, I don’t think I have ever complained about canon violations and that was the exact reason why.

Truth be told, I would have liked Discovery a whole lot more if it was in a seperate universe. As I’ve long said, my biggest issues with that show were the huge canon violations in seasons 1 and 2 and how they destroyed the Federation in Season 3.

But if they did do a reboot I would want some sort of Prime explanation for how this is a seperate universe, just like ST 2009 and PIC season 1 did. Just having 2 different Treks like we do 2 different BSGs wouldn’t be cool IMHO.

It’s hilarious reading some of the responses to these posts above. Some fans are pulling up the same old criticisms of the JJ Abrams movies and yet some of those same fans drooled all over the same weak Star Wars like shit and recycled fan service characters and plot lines that they just saw in Pic S3.

The funny thing is they are being hypocrites at like an unconscious level as like it seems to me that they don’t even realize how obvious the irony is to any objective observer who saw both the JJA movies and Picard S3.

My biggest issues with Kelvin were these. 1) Cadet Kirk –> Captain Kirk. Whatever universe this is, you don’t promote a cadet to the captain of the flagship, no matter what he has accomplished. 2) Spock being literally the most emotional person on the crew. I mean I know he lost his planet and his mother but come on! Vulcans even in this Universe are still supposed to be able to handle their emotions. And I didn’t see Sarek freaking out the way Spock did for 3 movies in a row. 3) KHANNNNNN!!! but not Khan. As an Indian American it REALLY REALLY pisses me off that an Englishman is picked to play an Indian. I mean JJ does know India was under English rule for years right?!?!?!

None of those were canon violations tho cause this is not the Prime universe. So I can swallow them. Except the Khan one.

Here is the thing tho. None of those had to do with an alternate universe AFAIK. They were just bad decisions.

What happened in DISCO or SNW or PIC are totally different and in a way worse. Any time they break canon, they are ACTUALLY breaking canon. Kelvin was put in a seperate universe for a reason.

Making Fratboy Kirk Captain after being in space for four days is why this will always be the dumbest movie in the franchise. 🙄

There is just so much wrong with that movie from Spock being able to see Vulcan getting wiped from another planet and then just sitting in a cave for no reason to Nero being the one wiping out Federation planets instead of going to Romulus and warning them about the supernova, that will always top the cake.

And I hated how they made Seven a Captain out of nowhere as well. She deserves to have a high rank in Starfleet since she has a brain and years of field experience on Voyager… but you should still be in Starfleet to get promoted first. 🙄

But I prefer both of those to making Tilly an XO. Like WTF?

These ridiculous promotions in NuTrek is what drives me insane.

I soooo agree! I mean, as I said before, I thought making this a seperate universe that still holds to canon and yet being able to do your own thing was a smart move. But even then, there are limits to what you can and can not do. Not because of canon but because of believabilty. And also, no matter what, Prime Spock was still from the Trek we know and what you do to him matters! Don’t just toss him around like a rag doll to serve your story! I HATE that the last meaningful role in Trek that Leonard Nimoy had was to say he failed and Romulus was destroyed. As our friend Corylea would no doubt remind us, this was not the ending that this hero deserved.

Completely agree bro! I didn’t mind that Spock ended up in another universe but it was sad all his efforts to reunite Vulcans and Romulans went nowhere. That was one of storylines I really loved about that character on TNG. I am happy they finally resolved it on Discovery though and made Spock a hero in the end. Well done Discovery! 👍

I think Romulus being destroyed is another reason a lot of fans hate the movie too and why some wanted to reset the timeline.

Yep, Unification part III was one of the very few highlights of Discovery S3.

“1) Cadet Kirk –> Captain Kirk.”
Agree 100%
If anything SNW shows us that Cadet/Lt. Kirk could have had a bunch of exciting adventures with Pike, Number One, Spock, etc while moving up the fast track.

Kahn wasn’t Kahn. Hell Into Darkness had it where he was just trying to get his family back. Its too bad because had he tricked Starfleet into using him as a strategic genius to defeat the Klingons post loss of Vulcan only to find out he was going to backstab them in a coup d’etat, Into Darkness could have been awesome. But let’s get Kahn well, Kahn!

I did like that they brought Carol Marcus into the mix. Should have given her a bigger role.

Why do you always defend the awfully written Discoverse stuff? Why attack the stuff the fans enjoy? Like PIC S3? Always the contrarian. Is that you, Alex? Akiva?

I’d prefer it over beeing fed asinine explanations how their retcons aren’t retcons.

Sadly agree Cody…sadly agree.

What’s annoying is that neither of Li’an’s backstories need to be the Gorn or Khan. They could easily be some other vicious alien species and some other dictator. It’s a big galaxy with a long history, you know.

But then, also, why did they feel the need to pile so much baggage onto one character? It’s like Rambo coming home from Vietnam carrying all that trauma, AND he has to deal with the fact he’s Hitler’s grandson. You only need the one, not both.

LOL! Never thought of it that way but true.

And I want to make clear I really do like the character a lot. She comes from a long line of hard ass and uptight security officers like Worf, Reed, Odo and Tuvok. And oh yeah, it’s nice to have a woman security chief again. ;)

But I do wish they didn’t tie her so close to TOS canon when it’s just more distracting than anything. And yeah, they could’ve cut down on the tragic back story a bit or give someone else the Gorn thing…or better yet not give it at all. ;)

(And while I don’t want to bring up ‘old wounds’ it’s nice that we can discuss this stuff in peace again without some guy yelling at everyone to stop complaining about it and move on. No, some of us want to complain, it’s why message boards exist.)

Yup, spot on. It’s a lot more pleasant since you-know-who’s departure. .

It only hit me when I was posting this because I imagine this entire board would’ve been an endless back and forth by now over just bringing up the topic. Instead it’s just civil conversation again, even if others disagree…at least it’s civil and not feeling attacked just by having an opinion.

But I’m moving on, just stated how nice it feels again. :)

Amen to that. I had no idea that person departed. A return to civility here makes me very pleased. I was seriously considering tuning out permanently.


I got to admit it does seem more peaceful now with him out. It took that other fan’s”rope a dope” tactic to get him kicked out, but upon reflection, that’s all for the best.

I was wondering what had changed! Yeah, that absence is not making the heart grow fonder.

Yep so agree bro! 👍

Very happy that weird cyber bully is gone. Everyone here are just giving their own thoughts and calmly agreeing or disagreeing but no one is attacking others for their opinion either. These boards are so much better to read now. That guy tried to be too controlling and very annoying about it too.

hah! That’s a good way of illustrating your point!

Yeah, can you imagine if they did that with Capt Picard/Locutus? That would never work given all the trauma for an offspring, and fans would be in an uproar and would never accept it.

What about Picard/Locutus? I’m not understanding what you mean. Please elaborate.

You said:

But then, also, why did they feel the need to pile so much baggage onto one character? It’s like Rambo coming home from Vietnam carrying all that trauma, AND he has to deal with the fact he’s Hitler’s grandson. You only need the one, not both.

This just as easily applies to Picard/Locutus and his son Jack in Picard S2 — Jack got all that piled on him. But of course, that gets a free pass from fans.

Well, not a pass from me. I thought Picard S3 was badly conceived, too.

Cool! Thanks for the response.

Key difference. Jack is not causing retcons.

Maybe it’s just me, but seeing a supporting character show up that’s like multiple generations removed from Khan is a hell of a lot less of a head-retcon to me the suddenly being presented a mid 20s son of Captain Picard (who’s also been kept secret for over two decades, and who has s British accent, and who looks nothing like Picard)?

Also, in the past here when I have brought up as to why haven’t they rewritten the Khan future history which took place in the 1990s which obviously is both silly and problematic now, people point me to the Greg Cox Khan origin novels which handled the eugenics wars as something that wasn’t all that public and which was kind of brushed under the rug by history. So if we’re going to base Khan’s history on those novels then of course there’s a good reason why Khan isn’t public knowledge to Pike and crew, because we don’t even know about it here in 2023.

I do see what you are saying, ESP about the accent which to me makes no sense. Accents are not inherited. I am a first generation in America as I alluded to in my last reply to you and if you didn’t see my face you would hear me and think I am a run of the mill average American.

Having said that, Jack’s age and existence does not interfere with canon. It’s been decades since Nemesis. Do I like that Jack was hidden from Picard? No. I think Crusher should have been like, you have a kid but stay away because you are a threat at the very least. Kirk was asked to stay away from David but at least Kirk knew about him.

I love the Cox Khan origin stories that tie Khan to Gary Seven. And they make sense except for one thing. If the wars were secret even when they were actually taking place, how the heck did records of them make it all the way to the 23rd century?

This is an unfair comparison being argued in bad faith. The repetition of Picard s3 criticism is the tell. Jack’s story is dramatized *in* Picard season three. He’s the story. All of La’an’s stuff is, as Wiley pointed out, backstory being brought into SNW and the aftermath is what’s being dealth with. The point of Strange New Worlds is to get people who’ve never seen Star Trek before (or only like Discovery) into Star Trek. They’re doing different things.

Jesus, that just sounds like legalese that is designed to support a fan favorite retcon while pushing a less wanted retcon under the rug.

Besides, based on your argument, how do any of us know that after three or four seasons of SNW we won’t have similar eps that tell us her full story, similar to the where we got Jack’s story within one season’s story arc?

Sorry, but I’m not buying what you’re selling with that statement.

My main issue is that La’an could be a good character on her own. She doesn’t need these two major connections to canon, Khan and the Gorn, to be an interesting person.

I’ll put it this way: when we talk about Jack and La’an, it doesn’t take very long to get to the Borg, Khan and the Gorn, does it? That’s mostly what they are at this point. They’ve been saddled with these familiar things that every fan knows very well, and that comes across as more of a marketing gimmick than genuine storytelling to me. It also makes the universe feel smaller.

Oh yeah, and now Jack has Q interested in him. So here we go again.

I agree with the broader point that these characters don’t stand on their own, but in Jack’s case, that doesn’t start with the Borg stuff, it starts with the part that he’s Beverly and Jean-Luc’s kid! He’s been jumped into the Legacy track. At the very least, the notion of two main characters having a kid and their adventures having some sort of resonance or effect on the kid character is logical… it’s implied by being offspring. It has, at worst, just the veneer of being organic to the story, but at the same time, he began as a character in someone else’s story (Picard’s) and the show — whether one likes it or not — went out of its way to try (though, I don’t think they succeeded very much) in making him his own character doing his own thing before he’s pulled into the main story.

La’an was introduced as and has been defined by her trauma, which is 100% connected to Star Trek history and the super goofy Gorn retconning.

Should Star Trek be more concerned with telling new stories where characters aren’t beholden to Trek’s past? I think so! I love your Rambo-Hitler line. That’s well said and lays bare the major issue with the character.

Probably a discussion for another time (since some people seem concerned with hijacking discussions with “Well, if you like Picard-S3 then you have to like Strange New Worlds because it’s the same thing”) is, “How many Star Trek characters are genuinely interesting and/or unique?”

I’ll put it this way: when we talk about Jack and La’an, it doesn’t take very long to get to the Borg, Khan and the Gorn, does it? That’s mostly what they are at this point. They’ve been saddled with these familiar things that every fan knows very well, and that comes across as more of a marketing gimmick than genuine storytelling to me. It also makes the universe feel smaller. Oh yeah, and now Jack has Q interested in him. So here we go again.

Good — you are seeing the same weaknesses with the Jack retcon that people are complaining about with the La’an character. That’s exactly my point! You can’t love one retcon here but bitch about the other — either we must say they are both problematic, or alternatively we must dismiss both base on our personal opinions — no one should be able to credibly accept one and complain about the other — that’s where I must reject Tiberius Mudd’s comment — he wants to have his cake and eat it too. THANKS!

but in Space Seed didnt Kirk and Co not know who khan really was until spock did some digging and then in the meeting it was established he was ‘khan noonian singh’ and then they were all like ‘oh no hes that guy’ and he was confined to quarters with guards outside. therefore kirk dating a noonian singh (lol) in SNW wouldnt really clash with SS too much , its not like he shouldve gone to khan hey yknow i think i may have dated one of your descendants a few years ago ..

My point is it’s ridiculous that Kirk wouldn’t know about La’an being related to Khan when it’s not even a secret and she has no problem openly discussing it. And honestly I think Kirk is going to be told who she is because once again, what is the point if that gets ignored?

This is the problem, they clearly made her a Noonien Singh for unnecessary fan service but to also give her an interesting back story. And I’m OK with the latter if they decide to explore it. But then they can’t fully explore it if they try to stick with the canon from Space Seed. We don’t know if there will be a romantic relationship with Kirk but they seem to be suggesting they will get close regardless. And if so, how do you put them together and yet ignore the huge elephant in the room. The point of having a back story is to develop the character more with it and how other characters react to it. It’s like someone has a relationship with Seven of Nine, but the fact she was a former Borg never gets brought up…ever. Or that Sisko lost his wife. It just rings hollow.

Or maybe I’m misreading your argument and you’re saying it doesn’t matter that Kirk knows La’an is related to Khan and how he reacts to Khan in SS because the two situations are just different. Well OK, then yeah you can certainly make that argument. It still feels like a big disconnect to me personally but maybe the producers are hoping most feel the way you do. And if so, that’s OK obviously because people can read these things differently and why some have no issues with them meeting the Gorn now and others having a huge problem with it lol.

I’ll do you one better. Why does she have to be called “noonian Singh”? Why not just “Singh”? I only have my desendant’s last name, not their middle names as well.

I suspect that she was put into the show with that entire history because of all the Khan stuff they had *planned* to do. Maybe there will still be a connection in the Khan audio drama, but at some point that was going to be a live action mini series and so maybe they were trying to do something Game of Thronesy where La’an is a descendant of the “good” side of the Khan saga that lost and Khan is the evil uncle or whatever.

Exactly, and that’s TOS canon, like it or not — FACT; Kirk didn’t even know that history (and if we go by the Greg Cox Khan origin novels we know why that history was not commonly known).

It’s hilarious to me how much criticism this character’s name is getting when the whole, “surprise, Picard Has a surprise 25 year old son” thing was quickly pushed under the rug by the end of the season 3 in most fans minds. So much hypocrisy here among fans, lol

Great points, especially on the family history. I don’t think it’s that big of deal either.

What’s freaking hilarious how some of the same fans that loved the Borg freaking showing up AGAIN in Picard S3 find the Khan thing supposedly tired fan service. Jeez, the myopia and the hypocrisy just kills me…lol

THat’s apples and oranges though. The Borg frequently showing up is really no different than the Klingons or Romulans frequently showing up. They are a race not a person. Khan frequently showing up is kind of as ridiculous as the Joker frequently showing up in Batman comics. Even if it does lead to $$$ of course.

Yeah and it doesn’t break canon either. The Borg is a part of the universe like every other species.

It’s not that she’s related to Khan that’s the problem, it just makes no sense in canon. If there was a Khan descendant on the NX-01, that would be totally fine and feels more organic. But here it takes some people out of the show.

And Khan is just one dude. Like Bill Clinton, Pamela Anderson and Arsenio Hall he was a big deal in the 90s but that was centuries ago now. And he’s just floating in space in this time period. So what is even the point of attaching this character other than just to drop the name every once in awhile? You can’t even use the guy without breaking more canon.

That’s why it just feels like cheap fab service to a lot of people and nothing more.

Yes exactly. And add to that, the borg, minus Enterprise, always show up in the future. Not the past. And even wuth Enterprise they tied it to First Contact and gave a good explanation for why the Borg would come for humanity 200 years later. so no canon violations. The problem with Kirk meeing a “noonian singh” is that he is obviously going to learn all about Khan if he doesn’t already know and that will directly interfere with Space Seed!

I originally hated the idea when I heard the Borg was showing up on Enterprise. But after I saw it I loved it. And it’s always first episode to begin my yearly Borg watch… which btw I’m doing this weekend and adding the last two episodes of Picard S3 to officially make part of it. 👍

And how the Borg was done in season 3 fits canon perfectly and why it’s part of my watchlist now. It finally explains what happened to them after Endgame which I been hoping to know for decades. And it gave them a real ending if we never see them again. But it’s Star Trek, so…

Having Kirk meet Khan’s relative is just distracting and destroys canon. Like… why? What’s the point? 🙄

Yes exactly! You can have the same exact story and not have her be “noonian singh”. She can still be an augment. She can still tell her same exact story. I got TPTB probably used the name to pull in non – hard core trek fans that still recognize the name from TWoK. But still. It does not serve the story in the slightest and lends it self to such canon violations that you can undo the best Trek movie out of the THIRTEEN we’ve had so far! That’s just plain irresponsible at best and criminal at worst!

It was probably Akiva Goldsman who came up with the idea of putting a Khan relative on the Enterprise. He’s come up with a lot hack ideas on these shows and made season 2 of Picard practically unwatchable. Don’t know if it was his idea of not but no one would be surprised if it was.

And you’re right she could’ve just been an Augment… although they made Una one instead. So even less of a reason to associate her with Khan. And she’s obviously not even one, it’s just to have the name.

Just a ridiculous and unnecessary thing to do.

Ya that makes sense.

Yet Q shows up all the time? Moriarity? And Dr. Song(s)? Harry Mudd?

I won’t argue with the Soongs. I think that is kind of ridiculous too. Harry Mudd? He showed up a few times at best. Q? He is omnipotent. He can show up wherever and whenever he wants. There are no rules to Q

Adolph was a pretty common name in Germany prior to about 1940.

Yeah and certainly not these days lol.

And although it’s not very common today there are still a number of people named Adolf around. Heck, according to name, there are about 300 people in the US named Adolf today.

Doug Drexler’s take: This is an alternate timeline. We’ve got Prime, Kelvin and Discovery. Picard season 3 seems to lend further credence to this since the fleet museum makes a point of showing an original Constitution class, the U.S.S. Pioneer and nothing from Discovery or SNW. This frees the writers to go in pretty much any direction that they want.

I’d rather not. But it’s not my decision, it’s Paramount.

I’d also rather Drexler not put his headcanon out there to encourage others… not when he got paid to be part of the current production. That’s not respectful.

100% agree. It’s a bad look when people involved in the productions (past or present) start taking swipes. Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, and these types of discussions between the creative teams behind the scenes will likely provide a better end product, but to do so publicly isn’t the way to go about it imo. Especially when fandoms these days are so divided and people pounce on these little sound bites as evidence that their subjective opinion is objective fact.

Agreed, and it says a lot about his oversized ego and his vastly oversized view of his contributions to the franchise outsize of makeup work.

I still think it would’ve been a lot less meltdowns and whining if they just put DIS and SNW in their own universe. And I only say SNW because it was a spin off of DIS. But same time, it’s so odd how they seem to avoid all of the DIS canon on that show. It reminds me of Supergirl and Superman and Lois. The latter was spin off from the former but it feels almost completely separate from the other show. Just like Superman and Lois has not brought in a single character over from Supergirl, the same with SNW and DIS (there are still other DIS characters left over in the 23rd century). Maybe Superman and Lois has made stronger connections in the other two seasons, I’ve seen only season one so far.

And for the record, I would love to see some of them like Tyler and L’Rell. Maybe season 2 will surprise us, but it is odd outside of a few DIS references, the two shows don’t feel connected in any real way.

And yeah it is odd how Picard S3 ignored stuff from the new shows. On a YT video, it was stated they were given the chance to bring in some of the ships from the newer shows including a California Class ship from LDS but rejected it. I guess Matalas just wanted old school nostalgia bait lol.

As much as I think DIS sucks I would like to see L’Rell and Tyler again too.

And Matalas definitely wanted Picard to be a love letter to classic Star Trek basically. LDS is the same way. Tons of Easter eggs to the old stuff but I can’t think of a single reference to any of the new stuff. Not so much as a shout out to L’Rell or a joke about the spore drive.

I guess that will change a little when the crossover happens with SNW though.

If we see them again, I want either to see them as TNG era Klingons or as they were, but with an explanation that there are different types of Klingons and this version is fading out.

They at least made L’Rell look a bit more like a regular Klingon in season 2. I would be OK if she still looked that way but they probably would change her more now to look closer to the TNG Klingons.

Yeah… They brought the hair back. I mean the ridiculous explanation Kurtzman gave that Klingons shave their heads at a time of war directly conflicts with the majority of DS9 and also was just stupid. I get the real world notion that you don’t want an enemy to pull you by the hair or whatever but still, TOTALLY against canon.

But still, her skin tone was way off, her ships still looked like they were organic and not technological. And they still ate sentient beings.

Lol I love that you hate Discovery more than I do. 😁

The excuse why Klingons were bald was just plain silly. And then suddenly they all grew hair back in like a week or something lol.

Like I said I’m OK if they kept L’Rell looking like what she did when we last saw her but she will probably just look like TNG Klingons now since they all look like that on every show including SNW. She would just look out of place… although nothing close to what she looked like in season one. Oy.

And they probably just want people to forget Klingons ate people. Discovery was trying way too hard in season one lol

LOL I know right? Discovery was the second prequel to TOS. Enterprise had some of it’s share of canon violations, the biggest one being the Enterprise herself. But they tried to follow canon. For example, in the 22nd century they aren’t supposed to be able to communicate via view screen but at the very least no human ever saw a Romulan on screen or in person (at least as far as they knew). They followed the heart of canon even if details here and there were left out. Discovery OTOH just throws everything out the window *because* and I think that is plain irresponsible and pathetic.

LOL you know my stance on this by now :-). I too would like DISCO to be in an alternate universe, but SNW doesn ‘t have too be. As you point out, SNW (THANKFULLY) ignores much of DISCO’s rewrite of canon, particulary the Klingons. Its not doing too much damage, YET. And if Disco is in an alternate universe, I would like it to at least acknoledge on screen that it is the same multiverse.

I already view Disco/SNW as an alternate timeline series, regardless of what Paramount chooses.

Doug Drexler’s take…

This intro phrase immediately alerts me that I need to take what is coming next with a grain of salt. He’s a great make-up artist, but he had zero business getting involved with the design of starships for this franchise — his work in this area is derivative, reeks of incrementalism, lacks boldness, and is “too busy” as compared to what we were given from the greats (Jeffries, Probert and Eaves).

He’s got a point about the Museum showing the TOP connie and not the SNW/DISCO one. But counterpoint, season 1 of Picard showed a hologram of the 1701 connie and it WAS the DISCO one. So Picard is really inconsistent within it’s own show.

I have to agree. I love SNW over all but putting a Khan ancestor in there makes no sense to me. Even for the actual story they are telling, not just canon.

That’s why I’ve decided to toss canon out the window when it comes to SNW. It was difficult personally as canon is something I’m usually very dedicated to, but it enables me to enjoy SNW much more. But agreed, it doesn’t mesh with TOS at all, imo.

Not a big fan of the “everyone has a saying” to initiate warp…

That’s a wrap….

Let’s wrap things up

Let’s warp things up. THAT could be the catchphrase, assuming you have a punmeister like Shatner in the chair.

Yeah, real navies would never use slang or get cute with phrases on the bridge.

The command would be what the XO said. Helm, flank speed, course blah blah blah.
Helm, on my mark, warp 2, course blah blah blah. Helm then holds until the XO says “mark”.
The snappy catchphrase isn’t a huge suspension of disbelief, but it does belie a casual sense of professionalism.
Did Jellico have a catchphrase? I don’t remember.

“Now get that fish out of my ready room” could have become his way of saying ‘dismissed.’

I think Jellico is more memorable for just two eps than just about any other limited Starfleet character, except maybe Eddington (still totally impressed with him.)

I’m suddenly smiling thinking of the response if Data had been holding Spot during a briefing … expected explosion, but Jellico’s secret weakness is that he is an ailurophile!

I’m glad that you caught my sarcasm.

I think TPTB are starting to realize that when Pike literally yelled at Ortegas saying, “STAND DOWN ERICA!”

Me either…but I liked this one. This was very Spock like lol.

This is awesome hahah thanks everyone!

Thanks for the excellent detailed synopsis of the trailer. After a great S3 of Picard, it is time to get back to the 23rd century and SNW. Hmmm June 15th cant get here fast enough!
Oh btw for those of you who missed the final Late Late Shows with James Corden, Sir Patrick Stewart guested with secret TNG superfan Mila Kunis. It was pretty cool, S3 of Picard really raised the mainstream profile of Star Trek, especially these last few weeks. I am sure the clip is already on Youtube and maybe on sometime in the future!

I saw that clip on YouTube but didn’t watch it. I had no idea Kunis was a Trek fan. I have to watch it now lol.

I think Picard S3 has really gave a positive boost to the fanbase in years. It’s probably the kind of boost we were hoping season one would’ve done. Doesn’t mean everyone liked season 3 and I agree with many people’s issues with it. But overall I’m just happy we got a generally solid season out of it and I think we’ll going to get another good season with SNW as well!

It’s a great time to be a Trek fan! :)

I love it when Trek Celebs are actually the celebrities of celebrities!

LOL same! And Kunis was adorable. I lol when she said she had a TNG ring tone growing up on her phone. She was sitting next to a Trek legend and knew it!

LOL she was totally adorable about her love of Trek and Sir Patrick. She insisted on playing his wife HAHAHA. She is a great actor but you could tell that wasn’t just acting.

Also when they talked about Fantastic Four with Kunis I would have loved if Stewart would have asked her if he was in it hahahaha

I’m wondering if this means they got over their feud or if it was just for show

So excited to see the deep dive on the trailer!

Lots of interesting things again.

The thing that struck me though is just how incredibly gorgeous this show is.

Jonathan Lee, the craft guilds, the virtual staging team, and the vfx teams have raised the bar again.

It really is a pretty show. There’s something about it that just *glows*.

We’re not ever going to get the same visual punch that TOS provided in its 1960s first run watched on early colour television sets.

Most people still had B&W sets, so most shows were still colour-grades to look good on those. TOS was as eye-poppingly bright as a 60s game show.

So, this glistening 23rd century production design is capturing the impact in a different way by taking advantage of UHD brightness.

That AR wall is really doing it’s job well. A real life sudo Holodeck making a show that invented the Holodeck. Interesting times!

Yes, SNW’s use of virtual staging with the Pixmodo/WH White AR Wall in season one was excellent.

They seemed to have been creative got beyond some of the patterns that are becoming too obvious in the SW ILM Stagecraft productions.

Discovery was first-in using the AR Wall in Toronto, and it looks like they started by emulating some of the ILM Stagecraft set-ups.

However, SNW S1 used the system and staging somewhat differently. It makes me wonder if there might be more of a difference at the level of the software or technology than we’re aware of.

Is it possible the two systems have different flexibilities?

kmart – not sure if you’re still looking at this thread but that kind of compare and contrast would make for an amazing feature article in one of the cinematography magazines.

That’s a very good idea — I keep thinking VFX VOICE must have done something like that already, since they seem to have VR wall articles covering various projects in most issues, but I had to stop writing for them because they just don’t pay well. I’ll mention it to my ICG editor and see what he has to say.

Last year, I talked to somebody who helped set up the VR box for GRAVITY and also worked on several other VR shows in the last decade (he worked on DEVOTION) and I stilll haven’t transcribed the rest of his interview yet, maybe I will, he had a lot to say about the various options and capabilities.

It’s kind of like how the possibilities inherent in 3d were a lot more than what got taken advantage of. I talked to a guy about MARS NEEDS MOMS way back when and he talked about how you could essentially tip the proscenium arch forward or backward, thus creating a vertiginous effect in depth, like the physiological effects of acrophobia. I have never been into 3d at all, but have to admit that would be an impressive trick, like VERTIGO on acid.

Good to know.

Being where I am in Canada, I saw the demo films in some of the earliest IMAX installations. Vertigo was definitely a typical reaction.

The earliest films they ran were really proof of concept things that were pushing the sensory limits – deep dives in nature, roller coasters and such. Lionsgate’s original moving gears title (from Return to Oz) was a fairly wild 3D version as they made a demo film for Expo ‘86. I actually think the mainstream fiction uses of 3D has pulled back significantly on that.

Anyway, looking at the shows using AR walls, it’s hard to know if the differences in hardware and software between the two brands of installations are playing into it.

Or, different virtual staging crew and vfx folks working with them have gone down the rabbit holes possibilities of the flexibilities differently in the two geographically distinct locations.

That is, as with any new tech, are the different brands that different in fact or is it just that they are being used differently.

Definitely worth an article. Hope your pitch works.

Re: Uhura visits a Shuttle crash. Didn’t her parents dies in a shuttle craft crash? Would think she is revisiting that and, if so, nothing to do with Rigel VII.

Was wondering that too.

Or, if having to view a more recent shuttle crash leads her to confront a past trauma.

Yeah, that’s totally how I read it. Glad I saw this comment.

I really like this trailer. It’s very cute and light. The total opposite of Picard S3 lol.

I do wish the season came a bit sooner but my only guess is Discovery was probably meant to air after Picard but was pulled once it was cancelled for the reshoots and why we have such a big gap now. But it will be a fun summer to watch this and Lower Decks.

Agreed, the only other negative was a quick shot of what appeared to be Talos IV, but it also seems like Pike has decided to stop worrying about a fate that lies years into the future… and to concentrate on the present. At least for now.

Wait are they going back to Talos IV again? I don’t think I recognized it at all but as you said it was quick. If they do, I’m fine with it at this point. Once they went back on Discovery they basically retcon the Menagerie by then anyway, even if just a little. And I really liked the episode in the end.

But yeah we’ll see. There is really nothing to complain about this trailer overall though. The end with Kirk and La’an looking like they time traveled to present day Earth with uniforms stand out, but that’s obviously for a story reason (and maybe why they are at a retail store ;)). And that was the episode where people figured out Kirk was going to be on the show.

Haha apparently they go shopping at the Roots clothing store in downtown Toronto! Too funny, we shall see how that plays out!

I wonder if it will be an actual Roots store or just fill in for a generic one? If so it will be the first product placement in Star Trek since the first Kelvin movie. :)

I remember shaking my head at B5’s Zima product placement, but I guess a syndication show had to do what it had to do. Zima barely made it into the 21st century, let alone the 23rd, and I don’t think anybody was too surprised about that either.

LOL I remember when it showed up on Agent’s of Shields too…but that was more of a joke since the company was already out of business.

As for Star Trek, I do like that they have avoided product placements in most of its history if only to make the ‘future’ feel more like that. I admit I was a little irked to see in the Kelvin movie at the time, but yeah it was a very expensive movie to make so you do what you have to do. And sure I can see Budweiser still around then at least seeing its always been a strong brand.

I would love to see Melissa George back as Vina.

The telepathic projection scene in Discovery was great. Plus, I think it’s necessary for SNW to somehow stand on its own in showing his continuing connection to Vina and Talos IV.

Yeah me too. I really liked her as Vina. Funny I just wrote a post on this thread saying it would be nice to see some DIS characters cross over into this show at some point; so she would be a big contender if they are going back to Talos IV.

I did think after that scene in DSC where Vina was able to communicate with Pike while he was on the Discovery via the Talosians’ telepathy that having them communicate regularly (or semi-regularly) would add some depth to his eventual return to Talos IV.

Like, Vina wasn’t just left lusting after some illusion of Pike provided to her via the Talosians as depicted at the end of “The Cage”, and Pike wasn’t just like “oh well, my only shot at having a body is living on this planet with this woman I met once 10 years ago” but that they had built a meaningful connection over the years and were genuinely happy to be reunited with each other despite their physical traumas.

I hope they can do something like you suggest.

Better yet if Spock is somehow aware of this ongoing connection.

Melissa George’s disturbing divorce didn’t quite reach Jeri Ryan’s level of public notice in the US, but the French court hearings and decisions were appalling.

The custody arrangement effectively ended possibilities for George to continue to be the principal character as she had risen to before her marriage. Her sons are no longer as young, but it would still be very difficult to work in a regular in a North American production.

I had no idea about her personal situation, just did a quick Google and you’re right, it’s a sad situation.

Hopefully that doesn’t preclude her involvement again.

And yes, some involvement/awareness from Spock would add even more weight to his decisions in “The Menagerie”.

It seems she was able to successfully manage a principal coleading role in The Mosquito Coast for recently.

Hopefully, this means that she is able to maintain her career while retaining custody of her children.

I think the emotions Jeffrey Hunter was able to express in Menagerie shows that it wasn’t just about getting his body back.

I agree. I’d just like to see that explored more. But at the same time I don’t want SNW to get too bogged down in that storyline either.

You’ll get no arguments from me!!!!

Well, if they do go to Talos IV, it is still years and years away from the Menagerie. Maybe something happens on this mission that leads Starfleet to permanently ban travel to that world.

Great breakdown. I missed the fist bump the first time around or my brain deleted it from my memory as a kindness.

Not sure who the target audience is sure aint me that was seriously juvenille aimed at the still in junior high crowd!

Says the serial apologizer for Lower Decks. ;-)

IMO there was nothing Juvenille about the season 1 finale. You could make the argument that the trailer is cut to target a specific audience but the trailer’s tone does not exactly match what we will get in the season itself.

This show is intended to draw in new fans, not just serve ones like me who’ve been watching since 1966.

I’m finding it delightful, loving it for what it is not what I’d hoped it to be (more cerebral like The Cage or midrun TNG).

I can get behind a trailer pitched to our kids instead of me and my spouse.

Maybe but the only people who seems to talk about this show so far are mostly old fans like all the others.

I come to this board and I keep reading how most of these shows are for newer fans but where are they? I rarely talk to one online and I don’t know anyone in real life watching them either.

And I can use the Kelvin movies for that point because I met plenty of people online who had never watched Star Trek before watch those. And I know people in real life the same at the time, including my own friends and family who never saw a single Star Trek episode but saw at least the first one. Most no longer cared by the time STID came but they watched the first one

I been watching all these new shows since 2017 like most people here. Don’t know anyone watching any of them outside of old Trekkies.

I’m sure some new people but it’s probably a tiny amount of them since they seem almost non-existent online.

You’re sure?

Good thing there’s independent metrics firms measuring this sort of thing and we’re not relying on your personal casual empiricism.

‘Almost non-existent’ online doesn’t seem to line up with either Discovery’s or SNW’s performance in metrics (like Parrot Analytics) that track and include things like social media engagement. Lower Decks and Prodigy are Paramount+ best performing digital animated originals.

My casual empiricism, in contrast to yours, following conversations other than here shows that the Kelvin movies and the new shows continue to draw in a steady group of new fans.

Paramount is nonetheless better placed than any of us to know who is watching Trek, and they find it worthwhile to keep making shows that draw in new viewers, that’s great.

I’m just saying I been watching these shows from the start, I haven’t talked to anyone who watches them that are new to Trek. I’m not one does lol. I’m just guessing they are still a small minority compared to old fans.

Put it this way, if there are a lot of fans watching, they are probably younger or under 30. Where do most people that age go to talk about stuff? Social media right?

I’m on FB, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit and on all the Star Trek pages. Tons of old fans all over those sites like here, but hardly see any newbies on them … just like here. 😂

Same thing for Trekcore and Trek BBS as well. I been on both of those for years.

There are younger fans in a lot of those other places though and definitely people in their 2O, but most of them been watching Trek and the old stuff for awhile. I do see people on Reddit new to Trek and watching TNG or TOS for the first time but I rarely see anyone who started watching any of the new shows.

That’s actually the ironic thing about Reddit, many people who is starting into Trek usually start with the old shows first. I had the opposite view when I started and watched the newest thing first which was DS9 and VOY at the time.

It’s just doesn’t seem to be many but I guess they are out there… somewhere.

I guess your eyes just skip over the posts that start ‘I’ve watched Lower Decks’ or ‘ I watched the Kelvin movies’ what next?

I see them though.

Confirmation bias can be a powerful thing.

It may also be that I’m seeing more of these because I also keep an eye on the subreddits dedicated to the new shows.

Sadly, that’s great writing these days.

“Science, f**k yeah!”


Looks good, but I hope they allow the Klingon-Federation cold war to develop. I mean the Klingons still occupy 25% of UFP space now, just fought a huge war. You’d think some houses would still want to end it/have some grudges. The border should be a dangerous place. Let’s allow the Enterprise to finally have a one on one with a D-7 battle crusier… and please make it something out of Balance of Terror / Master and Commander and not just space fighters shooting at each other. Let’s see damage control teams, transporter mines, boarding parties, etc. Make starship combat awesome ST II style.
I love the crew enthusiasm, I mean this is exploring the final frontier when space was still really wild.
Situational comedy is great… just don’t go all Lower Decks where you can’t take anything seriously. I also don’t mind weirdness, this is the final frontier and the more different the better, but again I don’t think it should deevolve into a comedy series like TNG/Orville. Remember TNG was at its best in Picard S3 when it was an TOS movie style action/adventure series.
HOWEVER time travel, ugh. Lame. Doesn’t matter if it’s TNG, TOS, we already had City on the Edge of Forever and Star Trek IV which you really can’t do again, now it’s just lame (why don’t they just go stop WW2 and WW3, etc) unless you go all temporal war which this show should not.

Situational comedy is great… just don’t go all Lower Decks where you can’t take anything seriously.


Humor… it is a difficult concept!

I’d say that describes Season 1 well. But by season 3 they had their fair share of seriousness and real life stakes.

Lower Decks may be mainly a comedy, but it’s a hell of a sight better written than any of the Discoverse shows.

Yep! 👍

Discovery is just a mess of a show.

I have a feeling that before Strange New Worlds is over, La’an’s existence in the timeline might change because of timey-wimey time travel reasons, probably sacrificing herself to save others (maybe from the Gorn?), and that way it will fit better with both Spock and Kirk not reacting to the Khan Noonien-Singh name in “Space Seed” and some of the dialogue about the Gorn in “Arena.”

I could see them going with the idea that where Pike is someone having to deal with the fatalism of knowing he has a doomed fate, and tempted with the idea of averting it, La’an is someone with survivor’s guilt who punishes herself for existing and will ultimately choose to sacrifice herself for something greater.

Well they threw Spock’s sister 900 years into the future to ‘explain’ canon…so anything is possible.

But I think the damage is done. And again, why put all that effort into explaining how they don’t know her when all they had to do was just not make her a Khan relative in the first place and you saved yourself all that trouble? It was literally the same issue they had with Burnham. If you feel you have to ‘explain’ it in some convoluted time travel way, why even bother doing it at all then? Don’t remotely understand it.

And I don’t want her killed off. I really like the character, but it was an idiotic decision to make her a descendant of Khan.

The fact they’re back around Khan’s time this season suggests she might just stick around there or die. They could also do one of those Heinlein/TIMERIDER ‘you’re your own great grandmother’ things if they wanted to get cute.

Yeah they could do something like that, I just really hope not. Again I don’t like the association with Khan but what’s done is done now.

Oh please PLEASE no! Not to mention that La’an and her recent ancestors have lived in a future where for a long time genetic engineering has been outlawed. For her to have continued the lineage over centuries, her enginnered genetic makeup should be havily diluted by now. She should be like 5% augment at best (randon math guess).

Tiberius Mudd has observed a pattern, a ‘house style’ in Secret Hideout Trek.

To his list, I would add the seeming requirement to have significant original/new woman characters be in some way related to some male legacy character(s).

Each time, it comes across as unnecessary and the same critiques repeat.

It’s tiresome. Worse, it seems a kind of concession to systemic bias against women.

Doesn’t Paramount have confidence that strong female characters can be interesting on their own.

Do they believe that they all need the kickstart of a family tie to a male legacy character?

I don’t think they are doing anything like that on purpose though. But yes, it’s definitely unnecessary regardless if they are or not. But maybe you’re right and we’ll find out Mariner is secretly Geordi’s niece or something on next season on Lower Decks. Wait, I shouldn’t give them any ideas.

I just don’t understand all the Khan fan service stuff at all. It would at least be different if it was a character that came out of TOS somewhere, even in beta canon. But nope, they are sooo desperate for a Khan connection they made one out of thin air. No one in the fandom is begging for any Khan connections. Most don’t even seem eager for more Khan stories in general.. And they seem to recognize this and why the Khan miniseries (ugh) was dropped to a podcast story. Btw I learned when Matalis first talked to them about doing something for Star Trek, they originally wanted him to be show runner for that miniseries Meyer was writing before that was dropped and asked him to work on Picard instead. I can only imagine how excited he was when he got that news lol.

But they just keep forcing him in every way they can.

I said it once before but I think it deserves a repeat. If Kurtzman et all wanted to do this, They should have just named her “Singh” and not “Noonian Singh”. Its weird to inherit both a middle and last name, ESP if you are not a direct decsendant. And “Singh” is a fairly common name in Asia. Sort of like Smith in the US.

Lol that is hilarious bro, I never thought of that until now! 😂

Like why would she have his middle name as well. I feel bad for saying this but I thought Noonian Singh was just a two part name or something.

It’s very obvious how much they want her to be associated with Khan.

You know, maybe it is a two part name? I dunno. But usually that is with some sorty of punctuation that combines them. combined names, at least as far as I know, don’t have just a space between them! But of course I am not an expert and I could be wrong!

Yeah who knows? It’s still ridiculous either way.

I’m wondering if they’ll address the fact that La’an and Kirk are in 2023, 24 years after the Eugenics Wars (1999 as per “Space Seed”) and no one knows anything about it.

I know there are non-canon books that address this, and the first ep of SNW sort-of retconned the Eugenics War into being part of WWIII. They probably won’t address it again, and I’m fine with that (and I’m fine with the inconsistencies in the dates too, that sort of stuff doesn’t bother me).

I just feel like if they’re going to delve into that storyline more, the time travel episode might be a good time to do it. And if they don’t ever delve into it more, it makes it all the more puzzling to have it as part of La’an’s storyline.

But I agree wholeheartedly with Tiger2, I really like La’an. When it looked like she might be leaving the show at the end of S1 I was worried, so very glad she’s back.

They seem to have moved the Eugenics War to the mid 21st century now.

I don’t think it can be the mid 21st century unless the Eugenics wars and WWIII are one in the same. Also that brings it VERY close to First Contact. Though it would explain how the technology for the Botany Bay exists since we still do not have it.

Based on the SNW premiere, and the PIC season 2 finale, it sounds like the idea is now that the Eugenics War led directly into WWIII. Which, I guess, does kind of mesh with Spock’s line in Space Seed when he described the Eugenics War as the third world war.

If true I am completely cool with that. I usually abhor canon violations but PIC S2 did a good enough job of explaining it, Spock’s line about WWIII is something I totally forgot about, and of course, canon is one thing but real world history is the only canon in life that is never violated.

I kind of liked the Eugenics War being in the 90s. Star Trek canon is obviously going to conflict with real life sooner or later. We already don’t have sanctuary districts, and we definitely aren’t sending anyone to Europa next year. I get why they decided to retcon the Eugenics War though, and its fine.

Ya but here is what I think. We do not in IRL have sancuary districts. But we are SO close. I live in the Bay Area of San Fransisco. And there are areas where it is just poor people and they are absolutely rounded up and regulated by the police. There are no literal walls like a sanctuary district like in DS9, but there might as well be.

And with them visiting the 21st century this season I’m wondering if that links up somehow.

PIC season 2 retconned this. Picard mentions that history from that era is sort of muddled as it were and the season, SPOILER, ended with Adam Soong reviewing a file called “Project Khan”. and that was in 2024. The idea being the Soongs started with genetic engineering before they went with artifical life. I wasn’t the biggest fan of this, but it does explan our real life events as well as the fact that Data’s father was “Noonien” Soong.

The naming similarities between Noonien Soong and Noonien Singh confused me so much as a small child getting in to Trek in the late 80s!

Ya it totally did for me too!!!

We already knew that the Soongs worked with genetics before cybernetics, thanks to Arik Soong.

Ahhh… I forgot. But we knew Arik was working on the reminants of the OG augments. We didn’t yet know that the Soong lineage was responsible for the whole thing

Kirk and Spock DID react to Khan Noonien-Singh’s name. They didn’t recognize the guy while he kept his identity as just “Khan”. When he was finally identified, Kirk and Scotty even showed some admiration for the guy, much to Spock’s chock.

Excellent point.

Wow, thanks so much, Trek Movie, for the detailed analysis! Very nice job!

I am SO excited for Season 2 of SNW; Season 1 was such a breath of fresh air and such a thoroughly Trekkian season!

‘Breath of fresh air’ describes it well, a feeling that I share.

There’s something spunky, an unapologetic delight in exploration that SNW brings back to the franchise. It’s really needed.

I feel that too many of us have reached the same point as Riker described in Picard S3 E4. Closed off to feeling wonder, instead just reacting to traumatic events.

Unfortunately, he may have recaptured and shared some of the wonder with the birth of the cosmosoans in that episode, but the rest of the season was the closing of the loop that began with Riker and Picard’s overconfidence in TNG’s ‘Q Who?’

It seems like the 32nd and 23rd century eras are going to be the ones giving us bright-eyed exploration and aspirations.

Yeah excited as well! But I know how special this show is for you!

Actually, it appears to me the “tête-à-tête” with the Gorn is between the Gorn and Captain Batel (Melanie Scrofano).

After seeing Picard, it would be nice if the Enterprise was lit better. It’s difficult to make out details on the ship.

One of the best things about returning to the Enterprise D after an entire season of being on the Titan A was that we could see the damn thing. 😉

So when can we officially call this a reboot?

Honestly, I don’t even think the creatives even know at this point. They’re just going along with it. USS New Jersey had thrown a spanner in those works. oh and before the same ol’ apologists reply, yes we know, it’s a “visual reimagining/update!” followed by “you can’t have a show looking like that of the 1960s Sci-fi for today’s modern shows! LOL”.

Indeed, we know, we know. Hence maybe, not having another prequel, may have been the answer? But please, do carry on.

I don’t mind updating the look and feel of the show. After all, the one and only adventure of Captain Pike was an unsold TV pilot made in 1965, before TOS. Subsequent to that, we have hundreds of tv episodes and numerous feature films and all of that forms a “canon” to some degree. For some fans, this canon is a catechism to be rigorously followed, but for me I’ve always seen it as more of a broad outline that can amended or even discarded if it makes sense to do so. Especially since so much of the canon was produced decades ago.

Given that, I can see how a fan might think the reboot option makes the most sense, but to me – it’s a show. And if what the producers make is in accord with the broad outline of what constitutes “Star Trek,” then I’m happy.