‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 5 Episode Titles Revealed

It’s finally 2024, which will see the release of the fifth and final season of Star Trek: Discovery in April. We now have a little bit of insight into the season thanks to the revelation of the episode titles, which may have some spoilers.

Season 5 episode titles

The titles  and credited writers for the ten season 5 episodes were revealed on the official site for the Writer’s Guild, which registers each script. Production on season 5 of Discovery wrapped up in late 2022.

It should be noted that the final episode titles may change by the time the season debuts in April.

  • Episode 1: “Red Directive” (Michelle Paradise)
  • Episode 2: “Under the Twin Moons” (Alan McElroy)
  • Episode 3: “Jinaal” (Kyle Jarrow & Lauren Wilkinson)
  • Episode 4: “Face the Strange” (Sean Cochran)
  • Episode 5: “Mirrors” (Johanna Lee & Carlos Cisco)
  • Episode 6: “Whistlespeak” (Kenneth Lin & Brandon A. Schultz)
  • Episode 7 “Erigah” (M. Raven Metzner)
  • Episode 8: “Labyrinths” (Lauren Wilkinson & Eric J. Robbins)
  • Episode 9: “Lagrange Point” (Sean Cochran & Ari Friedman)
  • Episode 10: “Life, Itself” (Kyle Jarrow & Michelle Paradise)

As she has for the previous 2 seasons, executive producer and showrunner Michelle Paradise is credited as writer or co-writer for both the season premiere and finale. The writers room for season 5 is mostly the same, with a few members getting title upgrades like Kenneth Lin, who moved up to full executive producer status. New writers joining Discovery include Johanna Lee (Altered Carbon) as co-executive producer and co-writer of episode 5. Also joining as a consulting producer and writer of episode 7 is Raven Metzner (Iron Fist, Sleepy Hollow). Co-executive producers Anne Cofell Saunders and Terri Hughes Burton did not return for season 5.

Cast photo for season 5 (Paramount+)


There are no big spoilers in the episode title mix, although some are certainly open to speculation. The season premiere, “Red Directive,” likely refers to some 32nd Starfleet General Order (like the Prime Directive, or General Order 1). The “red directive” may be akin to a “red notice,” a kind of warrant issued by Interpol for wanted criminals, which could be linked to the criminal protagonists of the season L’ak (Elias Toufexis) and Moll (Eve Harlow).

Elias Toufexis as L’ak and Eve Harlow as Moll (Paramount+)

Episode 4, “Face the Strange,” appears to reference David Bowie’s hit 1971 song “Changes,” which includes the reprise “turn and face the strange.” The song is about how at this point in his career Bowie had been experimenting with a number of musical styles. This could be seen as a commentary on Discovery itself, which has gone through several changes through its first four seasons and jumped from the 23rd to the 32nd century in season 3. Season 5 will see more changes, with showrunner Michelle Paradise promising a “shift in tone” to more “fun” and “adventure.” It also wouldn’t be the first Bowie reference on the show; Tilly sang “Space Oddity” in season 2.

As for episode 5, “Mirrors” could involve the Mirror Universe, which was part of a number of Discovery episodes in seasons 1 and 3. This could potentially tie into Michelle Yeoh’s Mirror Universe character Emperor Georgiou, who had joined the crew in the 32nd century before leaving via the Guardian of Forever in season 3. Yeoh’s Georgiou is now the lead character in the upcoming Star Trek: Section 31 movie that goes into production later this month.

Michelle Yeoh in “Terra Firma, Part 1” (Paramount+)

Episode 9’s title “Lagrange Point” refers to Lagrange points in celestial mechanics, which are the various points of equilibrium between large mass objects. It could be literal or a kind of metaphor. Jonathan Frakes has revealed he directed episode 9, the first part of a 2-part season (and now series) finale, with the second part directed by Olatunde Osunsanmi. That finale is titled “Life, Itself,” which could be a reference to a quote (from Satan) in Mark Twain’s The Mysterious Stranger: “Life itself is only a vision. A dream..” It’s part of a famously creepy moment from the 1985 claymation movie The Adventures of Mark Twain (see below).

ICMYI – latest clip

Paramount+ announced the final season will debut in April around the world, but they have not yet set a specific date. A clip was released at CCXP last month.

Discovery seasons one through four are currently streaming exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., the U.K., Switzerland, South Korea, Latin America, Germany, France, Italy, Australia and Austria. Seasons two and three are also available on the Pluto TV “Star Trek” channel in Switzerland, Germany and Austria. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel.

Keep up with news for the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.

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Finally, we’re getting “something” from Paramount on what new Star Trek episodes are about to be released. ‘Looking forward to seeing this cast again ….. they definitely grew on me.

Michael? Tilly? Culber? Stamets? Gray? I can’t imagine liking this cast at all. Adm. Vance is good I suppose, but the rest … awful.

I’ve always liked Culber and Stamets, but the rest vary from dull as hell (Gray) to annoying as hell (Tilly and Michael).

Not big on Tilly at all but the rest have grown on me, including Michael. This may be a hot take but I thought season 4 was the best that character has ever been. Still may not be saying a lot but I actually liked her as Captain even if I think her being one is about as ridiculous as Kelvin Kirk or Seven being Captains…but welcome to NuTrek I guess.

I still hate Cry Baby Burnham.

But she was less annoying this season than the last two so progress?


That’s not Vance, by the way.

Cast photos often reflect some budget thing, the ones who get a regular salary and are guaranteed a certain number of slots. Morn appeared in far more episodes of DS9 than Jake Sisko did, but the latter was a regular and the former wasn’t.

Gray bores me, but I love the rest of the cast.

Is she the Trill? I can’t even remember at this point.

Yeah, she’s the Trill. We haven’t seen a single shot of her anywhere for season 5 so maybe she’s completely gone now. I didn’t love her either but she’s the only Trill we have sadly.

Blue is the Trill. Gray was their boyfriend (not sure about the gender here).

Wait, isn’t Blue the human girl?? But OK, I forgot Gray was a guy, but I thought that was the Trill too. So the Trill is Blue? OMG, I am beyond confused. That should tell you everything about this show lol.

Adira Tal (Human) = They.

Gray Tal (Trill, then resurrected as a golem) = He.

I had to Google all of this.

Easier to remember who’s who: Adira’s a character, Gray is just sort of there.

OK but I was right then, Gray is the Trill and Blue (or Adira?) is the human (but acted as a Trill to keep the Tal symbiont alive). But I really did forget Gray was a guy lol.

Thanks for doing the homework for us Jack!

Thank you Jack.

Adira Tal is the human. Blu del Barrio is the actor who plays them.
Gray is the ghost boyfriend.

But the ghost boyfriend is the Trill right?

And I completely forgot his name! I thought it was Gary. 😂

Now I realize I been reading his name wrong all this time. Funny.

I haven’t watched a single episode of Discovery since whenever fourth season ended.

But then I’m wondering where was the symbiont in all this?

Adira Tal has the Tal symbiont. Gray Tal had the symbiont for a short time before his death, and was emergency transferred to the Human Adira.

Ah ok thanks.

IIRC it was originally in Gray but they transferred it it to Adira when Gray was killed. I actually liked that episode! 🙂

Oops should’ve scrolled down, someone beat me up to it lol.

LOL, this entire conversation is fucking hilarious! The biggest Trek nerds on the planet and yet all this massive confusion over two characters that’s been on the show for two seasons lol.

And yeah, we’re all human (right???), we make mistakes. :)

None of it is a big deal, but it really does speak to a bigger problem with the show IMO.

Such flagrant transphobia from some folks. Disappointed but not surprised.

And yes, misgendering somebody is transphobic.

I don’t think it’s intentional – and the show’s not always the best at making the characters’ identities (or most other things) clear.

What “flagrant transgenderism” are you talking about?

Again with the lording it over everyone with how PC you are. The correction was made hours before you entered the conversation, with commenters having indicated they were confused even about actor and character names. No need to gleefully guilt trip people yet again. No one is intentionally misgendering anyone.

“ Again with the lording it over everyone with how PC you are.”

Or maybe this person has trans friends? It’s bad form to assume bad faith.

So do I, but I don’t go looking to defend them when no one is intentionally slighting the community.

It’s not bad form when it’s based on how often this person pounces on people for perceived bigotry. A good faith criticism of an LGBT+ character can lead to an accusation of bigotry and I don’t condone that any more than actual prejudice.

A civil discussion about these characters was being had, information about correct pronouns was injected into the conversation with decorum, and then suddenly fingers were pointed over transphobia. It was uncalled for.

“ It’s not bad form when it’s based on how often this person pounces on people for perceived bigotry.”

Fair enough. Y’all all run together, I only know who like three people are.

Or maybe this person is trans themselves.

Im not being “PC” I am defending *my* community. A community that is under fire from every possible angle. Not that I would expect some small minded troll like “Ian” to understand even with them having trans friends allegedly,

Only if it’s intentional.

Lets hope we don’t waste any time in the mirror universe this season.

Feels like Disco left the mirror universe behind in season 3.

I do think Strange New Worlds should do one good Mirror Mirror prequel. Just once. Show us the day mirror Kirk killed mirror Pike. It’d be a blast.

That would make for one helluva pre-title teaser.

Although the way the new guy looks, have to think that when he makes some evil skulky expression after doing in Pike it’ll evoke Jim Carrey even more than usual.

I think it was established that the two universes have drifted too far apart.

For what? Are you thinking mirror mirror and the ds9 crossovers are zapped from the timeliness?

No, not that.

I don’t remember the exact line but Kovich seemed to tell that to Mirror Philippa that the two realities had drifted in Season 3. By the 32nd century, the universes don’t “Mirror” anymore.

The mirror universe was actually one of the only good parts of Discovery

I love the show it’s my favorite of the modern shows. It will be a sad day for the majority of the fandom when this show ends as it has been a big hit with Trekkies worldwide. Yes it has some vocal haters but thankfully they are only a tiny fraction of the fandom. It’s such a shame that Paramount is having major financials that led to this show ending sooner than the cast/writers/us trekkies wanted.

This place is so weird, man.

Yeah, people have differing no opinions here… it’s so odd to see people not agreeing on everything.

I’m going to regret responding to this, but…

I don’t give a f*ck that the dude (presumably) has a particular opinion (quick, what’s my opinion on Discovery? It doesn’t matter!) I don’t care that people have differing opinions here (or anywhere!) I think it’s weird when people have to assure us that everyone agrees with them.

Now, go enjoy your engagement.

They do that because they’re insecure and can’t stand alone, so invent and presume they have all those people agreeing with them. Bugs the hell out of me but to each his own.

Agreed as usual! 👍

I love Voyager when a lot of people hated it at the time including the guy who actually got me into Star Trek in the first place lol. But I don’t mind being the cool scrappy underdog! I see it as a badge of honor! 🙂

I mean I openly admit how much I love the episode Justice! It’s one of my top 10 TNG episodes. I would sound crazy if I pretended that episode is secretly loved lol.


Sorry I got a little triggered. I guess I can be triggered after all. 😄☹️

“I mean I openly admit how much I love the episode Justice! It’s one of my top 10 TNG episodes. I would sound crazy if I pretended that episode is secretly loved lol.”

LOL true. And I never hated Justice and in fact liked the episode as a kid. It is seen as one of the worst episodes of season one but like everything in Star Trek it has it fans. And I went and looked at its rating on IMDB for it and it’s 6.0 which is considered an average rating. It’s not awful but obviously far from great.

And another fun fact, that episode is rated higher than nearly every episode of season 4 of Discovery with the exception of one, episode 12. That’s the highest rated episode of the season with a 6.6 lol. Even the worst seasons of every Star Trek show prior still manage to get a few 7 and above ratings including a lot of episodes in both season 1 of TNG and season 3 of TOS.

Not hard to see why the show isn’t exactly a huge hit in the fanbase right now.

That’s hilarious about Discovery! 😂

The only season in Star Trek that is worse than Discovery season 4 is Picard season 2. But both totally awful.

To this day I never seen TOS season 3 outside 2 or 3 episodes because how bad people say it is. But if those two seasons are rated worse than that one, it tells you all you need to know.

Nice to hear Justice isn’t rated a 3. I’m actually shocked. 😂

Thinking about it more though Justice is probably in my top 20 actually. Just wanted to clear the record for all the Justice haters out there!!!!

I’m glad you have found a show to connect with, but I do question the claim that a majority of fans have connected with it.

The show has certainly set itself apart from all the others. One obvious example is by not making the bridge crew important enough to even be included in a cast photo. I would mention them by name, but then I would have to go look them up.

It’s like those crew members are all ‘ … and the rest’ from the song to 1st season GILLIGAN’S ISLAND.

I have the hardest time believing a majority of fans — even juvenile fans — like or even watch this show, based on the couple dozen I got through and two later eps that I sampled and gagged over.

The Professor and Mary-Ann definitely got the short end of the stick on that one.

Especially the prof, I always thought he came off like one of the leads, certainly a lot moreso than the Howells.

As for the Other, all I can think to say when hearing “Mary-Ann definitely got the short end of the the stick” is THE OFFICE, as in ‘that’s what she said.’

Did we ever find out who the chief medical officer and the engineer were?

They may have been mentioned once or not. I really can’t recall. I thought the CMO was that one woman who had a few lines, but like the bridge crew, her name escapes me. Crew person Number 6 maybe?

Yeah I think it is the black woman who is the CMO. And yes the name escapes me too lol.

This show man…

Dr. Pollard. First name Tracy, I think. I only remember that because of non-Trek reasons.

I think Reno is supposed to be Chief Engineer, but they should have another considering that they kind of found her. I don’t think they’ve ever mentioned him/her.

Wait are you serious??? I always thought Culber was the CMO lol.

Why would that other woman even be the CMO when she only has ten lines a season and is only in 3 episodes a season? What’s the point? It’s so bad most of us don’t even remember her name.

This show is so bleeping weird! 😂☹️


She did have a slightly bigger role in season 3 IIRC but I can’t remember a single scene she was in season 4. Not one scene lol.

According to IMDB she was in 3 episodes of season 4.
Neither her nor the bridge crew are series regulars, so this probably means that DIS doesn’t have a hold on them and they can take other roles if they come up. Ronnie Rowe also had reduced screen time in season 4 because of other work.
As for whether it makes sense for her to be CMO even though she has far less screen time than Culber: If you go to a hospital chances are high you won’t be treated by the head doctor unless yours is a really complicated case (or unless you are a big-time donor). I don’t remember if or how often Culber took part in important staff meetings (where you might expect the CMO) but I see no general problem in him being the main medical personal we see on the show even though he’s not CMO.
Of course, this is a different setup than previous Trek shows have followed.

Which is why it was silly to make her CMO. Why not just make Culber the CMO then? It would make sense if she had a bigger role and putting her in that position meant something on the show, but it doesn’t. People like TG1701 didn’t even know she was the CMO. Salt Vampire literally didn’t remember she even existed and how this conversation began. I’m guessing a lot of people don’t.

And we’re not talking about real life, we’re talking about a TV show, one that has highlighted CMO as the primary doctors in all he shows before minus this one. And the biggest reason that is done because they make all the big primary decisions on the show which oddly we see Culber do all he time and rarely consults with her on anything. I can’t recall a time he’s even reported to her on anything.

That’s why it doesn’t make sense and is confusing for people.

In fairness, it was originally kind of pitched as a Lower Decks kind of show, with what became Burnham originally said to be a young Number One. I guess not having the senior officers as major characters is part of that.

If you ever find out, we need to know their ranks too please… Of everyone.

Dude, I still remember before season 4 started and the cast was doing interviews and one of the actors, I think it was Anthony Rapp who had no idea what his position or rank was on the ship. Maybe I’m getting the actor wrong but one of them didn’t have a clue for a character they been playing for four seasons.

Yes I remember this also. I think Blu was also in that interview because I remember them not having a clue about both their rank and duties.

That’s pretty sad but with Discovery what do you expect? Every 3 episodes in season 3 Burnham got a different ranking lol.

Nothing about this show makes any real sense.

They aren’t the lead characters.

There’s no law that says they have to be just because that’s how they did it in the past.

how exactly do you know any of this?

I went to a Creation convention in New Jersey two years ago and the size of the audience for SMG was four times the size of Shatner’s, and they were hundreds of young and diverse people in the audience who just showed up for that day (the DSC focused day) of the convention.

So that’s how I know. The same 15 people on this website constantly posting multiple times to each other about how bad the show is — that is a joke to claim as a compelling determination of the popularity of this series.

With due respect, that’s like saying “I went to a Bernie Sanders rally in New Hampshire in 2016, and he attracted huge crowds. Therefore he’ll be the Democratic nominee.”

At least that is real-world anecdotal information versus the small quantity of DSC negative posters here — all anonymous — who seem to think just because their cabal agrees and reinforces each other incessantly here, that that means that DSC doe not have a legitimately large fanbase – that’s a “just trust us, it’s true” fairly tale from a small group of “very loud” fans on the internet.

I don’t know anyone in real life who watches any of these shows. It could well be that DSC actually does have a significant following (anybody with real stats should chime in here), but all that shows is that numbers don’t equal quality, especially on franchises. Craig’s Bond films made zillions (though not from me) and yet from where I stand they did more damage to the character than even Roger Moore’s era, which previously I referred to as the Hiroshima/Nagasaki period of Bond, though now I have to downgrade that to a really bad patch of weather by comparison.

I don’t think most of the reasoned DSC criticism is about reinforcing/shoring up other people’s negative opinions … it is much more in the realm of ‘this crap is so bad it has no business being on television’ or ‘Geez, I really HAVE read fanfic that is better than this.’

“I don’t know anyone in real life who watches any of these shows. “

Dude I have said the same thing many times here. I don’t know ANYBODY watching these shows and that includes people I know who are Trek fans. But they are ‘older’ and just stick with the classic shows or what they grew up with. I have even asked people here point blank do they know anyone who watches them and I never get a response.

Obviously they are being watched, but I just think by people like us, ie, very hardcore fans first, some casual fans second but ‘new’ fans are probably far and between. Put it this way, no one I know who wasn’t a Star Trek fan has become one since these shows started. I really don’t think most people know most of them even exist. I think Picard got the biggest amount of exposure for obvious reasons but I don’t think it drew a lot of new viewers either. And if the change up in season 3 tells you anything when they went back to the TNG crew, it probably proves that point well.

I know a few people watching these shows but it’s like two of them lol. I convinced one of the to give LDS a try. They watch that and SNW but never watched anything else. And I really don’t know if he’s still watching those either.

But I agree I don’t think most people know they exist either. I have never been around anyone who talks about them, even in passing. But I don’t live in a place that screams Star Trek fans lol. It’s a smaller town with people more into reality shows than sci fi.

But you know when a show becomes big when everyone around you start talking about it. I’m a gamer and was a big The Last of Us fan. I played it for years. But no one around me knew about it because they don’t play videogames.

But once the show came out, suddenly everyone cared lol. People who would never play the game were raving about the show. They were asking me all kinds of questions about it. It blew up huge and it’s an AMAZING show too! It really follows the game well.

But that’s the difference. With Star Trek these shows have been on six years and I doubt anyone I know even knows what Discovery is or any of them. It’s very weird but I guess that’s what happens when you stick something behind a pay wall on a site no one has! 😆

Huh. I’d always assumed Craig was universally loved as Bond.

I like him in the role, but he always just seemed like “Daniel Craig in a Bond movie” to me.

Disc is frustrating because there was a bunch of talent (and promise) in the beginning (like in preproduction). It’s never really worked well for me as Trek — or as television.

That’s all fine, by my point is I actually saw in real life many, many people and an event who were fans of the series — in contrast to Trek fan internet sites where it’s usually the same handful of people who are claiming it’s not popular with fans.

So obviously, any objective person is going to side with a real life experience here versus small group-think incessant negative comments on a fan website.

Maybe you should get out more and meet some new people then?


Think I’ll wait for humanity to evolve first. Not holding my breath on that, either.

Me either lol!

Oh they’re evolving alright, but in the wrong direction. Soon enough we’ll finally know what the appendix is for when it reverts back to its original form. By then we may look like those Voyager salamanders though, and start making more sense than nowadays surely.

Okay, here goes. What is it exactly that you have against the Daniel Craig films, specifically? I know you’re a Bond fan, which I’m not (aside from enjoying them as a casual viewer), but I’ve always thought that Craig was pretty boss in the role and have always been curious as to why you don’t. Please, don’t hate me.

Right off, he doesn’t look right. Not remotely right. Now I got past that — shoot, I never could buy Roger Moore in the role either, the physicality looked practiced at best and awkward the rest of the time — and actually tried watching CR on homevid, and geez, it was so much worse than I expected! And his choices made things worse. Take a look at the scene where he is trying to pick up the girl who dies halfway through, Solange. His expression is something I might expect to see on Don Knotts right before he drops his stethoscope down Barbara Rhoades’ cleavage in THE SHAKIEST GUN IN THE WEST. He utterly fails in the one area everybody said he was kickass on!

I think Craig was good in a couple scenes in QUANTUM, but honestly, that’s about it out of all the films (I’ve only seen the last one once and don’t expect to revisit any of these except QUANTUM, which, while a jittery mess, looks very nice when you freeze frame and also has decent stuff amid the rush.)

Craig was good in MUNICH and PERDITION, and my wife loves him in a little movie where he is dating a much older woman. As the Bond films went on, he seemed to exert more influence on the creative end, and so the little Fleming touches in the later films are not even grace notes, but clangingly out of tone with what he is doing onscreen (which to my eye is usually not giving a hoot, either that or behaving in a wholly inappropriate fashion for this character.) The ‘no-no-no-no’ bit in the last movie as he sees the silos start to close back down is a perfect example — that is what an ordinary person would do in response to seeing that — not Bond. Dalton made Bond human, but not into this whiny dull-eyed sociopath. For the record, I’m divided between Connery and Dalton, because one just delivered magic, and the other delivered something just as grounded but more personal in a way that didn’t invalidate what he did or how he did it.

It’s easy to complain about terrible scripts in the Craig era, but everybody did the same about Brosnan’s (and with good reason.) But Broz did at least have some idea about the character that was sound — and if you want to see it dialed to 11, check out THE TAILOR OF PANAMA, where he is practically mirror-universe Bond at times.

That’s the short answer.

Yum yum

Pretty much.

But it’s nice she has fans.

Funny I thought you were one of those 15 people. So now you like DSC and are defending it? It seems you’re just going with the way the wind is blowing and jumping onto whatever bandwagon just to get validation.

It’s no more a joke to post about not liking the show than it is to make ridiculous unfounded statements that the show is loved by the majority of the fanbase and only disliked by haters representing a tiny fraction of the fanbase.

Discovery is the lowest ranked Trek show on every review site out there. It doesn’t mean people don’t love it but they clearly are not the majority lol.

Some people here can’t seem to grasp or accept that…

Yeah, it’s just no point. Some people can’t look at things more objectively when they like or hate something. It’s why I stopped bothering long ago.

I’ve yet to reach your level of wisdom my friend…

Me too.

Huh, seriously? I’ve always liked DSC and have been one of it’s biggest defenders?

You seem confused???

Maybe I am. My original impression was indeed that you liked DSC, but I seem to remember an earlier post of yours where you seemed lukewarm about it and were awaiting S5 with some level of reservation.

I have a permanent imprint of my right hand on my face so much I have facepalmed through S3 and S4, but this is a matter or personal taste and I do acknowledge that the show has its fans. However those fans need also to be objective and understand that people can dislike the show as well, without getting in a huff about it and calling them haters.

I’m looking forward to S5. I’m somewhat disappointed it’s getting cancelled and don’t revel in the fact that it is, as a justification of its mediocrity. I do think the quality of the writing as far as character development and storylines is lacking and I don’t like to be preached at. Hopefully S5 can reverse this trend.

Yeah, I think you misunderstood me. I was disappointed in the watered down versions of DSC in S3 and S4, after the first two seasons, which I loved. I feel like they “listened to the fans” too much after those first two seasons, and it’s weakened the show…but I still love the series.

I’m actually looking forward to season 5 too but I’m not disappointed it’s cancelled in the least lol. But maybe next season will change my mind on that.

I didn’t know Sarah Michelle Gellar was doing conventions.

100%. Especially given that SNW did not nail S2 like they should’ve.

I think it’s a much better show than it’s spin off. The choice to move into the future than live in the past was a good one. SNW season two has totally turned me off episodic Star Trek. Hopefully Disco S5 has a good season story arc.

I actually agree that the one thing this show had over SNW is that it’s NOT a prequel (anymore lol). I actually thought I would easily love this show over SNW because I was excited it was finally going forward and I didn’t really care that much about another TOS prequel even though I did love Pike and Spock.

But I’m sorry, the show still sucks to me. SNW isn’t perfect and I agree season 2 was a let down in some ways but it still felt like Star Trek at least.

Discovery season 4 felt like a Lifetime movie in space. When they got to the planet with the emo dust and everyone going on about their feelings and crying I was hoping they all just kill themselves and saves me from watching the rest of the season. 🙄

And they really squandered the 32nd century setting and I like a lot of those characters from that period too. But my God, this show is just frustrating to watch most of the time.

Look trust me when I say I was hoping to love DIS when it made the time jump into the 32nd century. You could not find a more excited fan over it. This is something I never thought would happen (nor asked for) but thought it wouldn’t just be great for DIS to do a soft reboot but just a good thing for the franchise as a whole. Not just to go forward again, but in a completely unknown century and setting we haven’t had since TNG appeared.

And I haven’t been more disappointed since.

But I hear you on SNW season 2. I thought it was mostly fine, but I’m starting to wonder if I’m in the minority here on that one?

it has been a big hit with Trekkies worldwide. Yes it has some vocal haters but thankfully they are only a tiny fraction of the fandom.

Do you have any data supporting this claim?

You’re making vacuous assumptions that you can’t make without figures to support them and you’re certainly not entitled to speak for the fanbase.

just look at the fan groups on facebook to see how many fan the new shows have which is alot there are more members on the ones for just the new shows then the fan groups just for the original 6 trek shows have
and new trek shows has alot of fan art being made for them on deviant art
also the 3 local walmarts around me all stoped selling classic trek dvds and blu-rays a while ago as they do not sell at all while they have to restock the new trek shows seasons several times when they come out they also quit selling the mego tos and tng figures and only sell the new trek show ones cause the same reason it also was the same with the playmates figures the two discovery ones and the prodigy ones sold better then the wrath of khan figures and tng figures did and the last two holiday seasons 2022 and 2023 they had round 2 model kits for sale only the discovery kits were the only trek kits they put out as the ones from the first 6 shows did not sell during the 2020 and 2021 holiday seasons

just look at the fan groups on facebook to see how many fan the new shows have which is alot there are more members on the ones for just the new shows then the fan groups just for the original 6 trek shows have

Exactly, but that small group here doesn’t want to hear that inconvenient truth…lol

Facebook is not a good reference. The older Trek shows may appeal to older fans and they’re less on Facebook than younger generations. As far as merch well of course the newer shows will sell more since it’s new and people maybe already own a lot of the older stuff and the generally younger fans will be interested in the newer items and not the legacy ones.

And if you want to bring social media into this, go on YouTube and you may get a totally different impression about what people think about DSC. However there are echo chambers on both sides of the issue…

It’s a better reference that a handful of “loud” anonymous fans on a fan website providing incessant, self-reinforcing comments suggesting basically, “trust us, we just know it’s not that popular.”

It’s inconvenient for those fans when they hear about large convention crowds for DSC or a major Facebook presence — they dismiss all that and insist that we just believe them instead, which is hilarious

Fair, but it goes both ways. One can say that it’s inconvenient for the fans of DSC when the show was cancelled and they try to find reasons why, other than its lack of popularity, or when so many critics of it exists on social media. There’s nothing “hilarious” about any of this, as if one side is right and the other is wrong. People like what they like and others may dislike it.

The show can be the most watched show ever, it’s still really really bad IMO but yeah it’s just my opinion. But one tons of people seem to agree with lol.

I don’t think everyone hates the show but it’s funny pretending so many loves it when it’s constantly being criticized and put down for four seasons which includes Facebook by the way. Plenty of people thinks the show sucks there too lol. But when you’re on a site with so many people it’s easier to find more like minded groups which was the entire point of social media before it nose dived into misinformation chaos and tribalism but that’s a different discussion.

I read that Playmates is discontinuing producing Star Trek action figures due to poor sales and will only be focusing on the starships like the Enterprise and Enterprise-D, and roleplay items like the classic Trek landing party gear.

Sadly it’s no longer the 90s. :(

They put DSC on Network TV briefly and the ratings were terrible.

Lol, a year after all the fans had already seen it on streaming.

”LOL” is not a convincing argument.

a year after all the fans had already seen it on streaming certainly is.

2 years after it came out on streaming and dvd and blu-ray they put it on normal network tv heavily edited to fill a time lot due to no new made for network shows seasons could be produced and released due to the shutdowns

Yep! I don’t think Silvereyes wants to hear that though…lol

Sorry I don’t buy that excuse at all. They just put Yellowstone reruns on CBS a few months ago and that show is a HUGE hit there! And that show has been running for literally 5 years now and also on cable (it’s original home), streaming, blu rays, you name it. In other words, it’s been seen in more places than Discovery has with an additional season and yet it’s still one of the biggest shows on the network right now. And it’s veeeery edited lol.

In fact, it was so successful, they are now running season 2, which wasn’t the original plan. They may run all 5 seasons the way things sound.

Now of course is just a huge hit show with a lot of hype behind it…but that’s kind of the point lol. People keep making excuses for Discovery. I get it! I get it, I get it, I get it!

But at some point you have to stop making excuses and just say show has the fans that it has and yeah there is a huge ceiling with that. And to be fair that’s been the case with nearly every Trek show minus TNG. But obviously it’s done well enough to get this far regardless.

Yeah the Discovery lovers don’t want to hear this reality either!

It doesn’t fit well with their agenda no one cares much about the show but them. 😄

People actually watch Yellowstone and excited about that show. Not surprised why it’s a big hit on CBS.

I tried it but it’s not really for me though. My sister however is hooked on it.

yeah it was heavily edited and it was 2 years after the show had come out both on streaming and for the dvd and blu-ray release they only put season one up season 2 was already released at that time for streaming and dvd and blu-ray and season 3 had started to film but was on hold due to the lockdowns they did not care about the ratings they just needed a new show that had never been on network tv at that point to fill a time slot

Of course. They doesn’t fit very well with the agenda of those who want to say the broadcast ratings proves it doesn’t have much of an audience though. ;-))

I don’t think there’s much value in arguing over how popular the show is, especially if it’s largely rooted in anecdotes about friends or conventions in lieu of hard ratings and sales data. There’s enough evidence and 4 renewals by Paramount+ to suggest Discovery performed well enough and has a devoted fan base. No real point in trying to argue against that and I don’t think there’s any worthwhile argument to win anyway. Critically it has its detractors and many make very cogent points, but there’s also a mob mentality that does things like review bomb it on IMDb, which does nothing to help anyone gauge the show’s merits.

We can just discuss the show as we see it and not try to find validation where it’s largely nebulous anyway.

Finally, at long last, a voice of reason. Thank you.

I tend to agree with Michael Hall, that the commenter Ian is a voice of both reason and common sense.

Good for you, but I don’t think you can talk for the “majority”. It’s just your opinion.

Lagrange Point? More Stacey Abrams?

Rather than waiting for the mods to approve the link…

LaGrange is on 85 near the Alabama border.

Michael Hall, January 1, 2024 1:15 pm

Well said. I love the use of the continuation, thee-dots punctuation technique. This is probably my favorite post of yours in awhile, and it’s good that we agree on something. ;-)

That’s quite alright, myself not being as in need of your gratitude and approval as, say, Jeff Bezos.


Lagrange Point Break — homage to DARK STAR with somebody surfing in space.


I believe it was Burnham’s brother who put it best: “life is not a dream.”

I bet she would have liked him better before he died, too.

Perhaps the series finale will be solved by Twain’ing on the holodeck


I hope so. I would appreciate some witty banter for once, but I fear this is beyond the writers’ abilities.

Honestly, as a 50-year-plus Trek Fan, I can’t believe how critical some of you are of the newer Trek series. No new Trek is going to be what everyone wants, nor is any new Trek likely to truly stick to canon all the time. There was a long time where there was no Trek at all on TV after Enterprise ended in 2005. We should welcome and support new Trek, and give the new series time to grow as TOS, TNG, and DS9 did. Because if we don’t, then guess what? There won’t be any more new Trek made if there isn’t a viable and open fan-base. You might think as someone in their late 50’s, I would demand more adherence to canon, but I accept the realities of today in VFX and storytelling and demographics, and I can adapt and have. There are some clunkers in every series, but there have been great moments in all of them, truly amazing ones.

Good comment.
I agree some people hear are too critical of the modern shows and they feel like all Trek should cater to their tastes only.

Some fans seem to hate on the modern shows like Discovery when they try something different. Star Trek is at its best when it branches out into different paths and embrace diversity in storytelling.

For me I like every Trek show and yes I have my favorites and least favorites but I don’t hate any of them. I certainly hope Trek goes on for another 50 years and beyond and that future writers continue to branch out in different directions when telling stories in the Trek universe.

Well said. I do really believe that for every “space Hitler” name calling, immature fan out there who posts 10 times per day on Trek websites making fun and lambasting this series, there are at least three other fans out there who don’t post who like DSC and have your positive attitude.

10 times a day lambasting Discovery eh, sounds a bit like you and Picard season 3 on most Picard threads here😉

Or Lower Decks! 😂

Gotta love the hypocrisy though and pointing out when people do it to the shows they like but have no problem saying things they they think suck over and over again themselves for the shows they hate. It’s so bad even the moderators have told him to cool it on LDS.

But keep pretending everyone else has the problem lol.

It’s hilarious. This guy is sooo weird.

Ah jeez I did it again! 😄🙄

I promise to ignore this guy (for posts literally like above) but broke the pact. So I apologize. That was on me… again.

But nothing I said was wrong. It’s just unbelievable he’s constantly, constantly calling everyone else out but he ignores his own behavior over and over again even when others point it out to him. It’s crazy lol.

If I had a dollar for every time you made that promise and broke it, I’d be a rich man. :-))

Talk about hypocrisy, lol. You attack me whenever you feel like it and then claim there’s this rule that you’re so sorry you violated — what a crock of s*** man, it’s hilarious, and everybody can see how fake it is.

Happy New Year by the way. I have nothing against you and just find this funny.

Bro you’re the biggest hypocrite here it’s amazing. All you do is complain about shows you don’t like but then want to whine when people do the same thing.

How many times have you been whining about LDS .. for four years now? You bring up the same issues again and again, but then literally complain when other people bring up the same things.

We’re totally different people. You like Discovery and constantly moan when people say it sucks.

I like Lower Decks, now how many times have you seen me whine every time people bad mouth it?

None right.

Because I get people will just have difference of opinion and respect those opinions even if I disagree. You can disagree, tell people why you think they are wrong. But you constantly whine about while bringing up for the thousand time you think LDS sucks. You find every way to complain it so much even the moderators are now sick of it. Am I wrong?

What’s funny is I don’t care if you or anyone bad mouth LDS, it’s the fact you want to control what others say over the show you happen to like.

How is that not being a hypocrite?

Dude, of course I’m a hypocrite — like you think it’s a freaking news flash that I’m critical of LDS but love DSC? I freaking admit it.

However, unlike you, I don’t reduce my hypocrisy to grade-school level name calling of the characters, not to mention the actors. That’s trolling fans who like DSC, but unlike me, I rather doubt you are man enough to admit your fault?

Lol you do it all the time. You insult LDS daily by calling it a grade school sitcom. It’s hilarious you out of all people trying to take the high ground. 🙄

No one is ‘trolling’ fans. We think the show sucks and says so like every one who thinks a show sucks.Georgiou is not the first person in Star Trek called Space Hitler. People have said that about Gul Dukat and Khan for years. Look it up. And this right here is your problem, not everything is about you lol. Get over yourself.

People have been calling her that since 2018 on multiple websites. It’s not going away.

When you constantly and belligerently name-call a fan favorite character by many on a Star Trek series, of course you are trolling those fans — if you are too dense to see that, well that is your problem, dude, not mine. :-)

It’s like Trump saying “Sleepy Joe Biden” and “Crooked Nancy,” and all the other negative nicknames he has — we all know that Trump is trolling Democrats and that his base eats this name-calling up…not much difference there with what you are doing regarding Georgiou.

Trump is talking about ACTUAL PEOPLE, we are talking about c-h-a-r-a-c-t-e-r-s! They aren’t real lol. People talk shit about characters they think sucks. It wasn’t invented just to make you sad.

And what’s funny is you been going on and on how only a small base of people think Discovery sucks but bro you’re the ONLY one here who is even bothered by this lol. No one else has brought it up here. I’m not saying everyone loves it but no one cares. Because, once again, people understand how a message board work. 😉

But you been going on about this for 5 years now! How’s that working out for you. 😂

Hey if you are THIS OFFENDED that people are simply exercising their free speech then boycott every board that has people yelling Space Hitler including this one. I mean if it’s only one or two boards as you claim then you should have plenty of places to post. Put your money where your mouth is and make a real stand then?

I think I already know what choice you will be making! 😂

You got issues man. You once told me you thought TM was a place of haters and trolls and that you didn’t waste your time on and that was BEFORE I joined lol. Now here you are here making 10 posts a day still complaining about the moaners and haters as if anyone is forcing you to be here.

Boohoo guy.

Dude, I have just been responding to you since last night — you are the one who brought up my past LDS comments, even though you claim you are ignoring me. We would not be having all this back and forth if you didn’t want to get in all of your weird, childish, making fun of me personal attacks. And now you are bringing up stuff that you claim I said years ago — lol, do you have like a notebook that keeps score on our discussions? Just look at what you are saying about me — like we are in first grade and I stole your lunch money. Admit it, this is like grade school recess for you, and you are having the time of your life attacking me…so sadly pathetic.

Grow up, man — this whole thing you yourself brought on, so you should apply your ridiculous and childish psychiatric analysis on yourself instead of me.

Oh please you’re the most childish one here lol. Bro I don’t get into arguments with anyone here BUT you, why do you think that is? 😂

Again, look in a mirror, you’re always finding reasons to feel offended but then want to argue with everyone with the same arguments you been having since 2017.

You’re probably the oldest man child here… but you want to pretend everyone else is the problem lol

You just proved my point — more childish personal attacks. That’s what you are doing here — this is not about Star Trek for you, it’s about settling a score. But instead of doing that within Star Trek discussions, you need to resort to grade school like behavior of name-calling, belittling and pretend psychiatric assessments of me — because that’s what you really want to do here with me.

Settilng scores? The guy who wants to always remind people he’s right because he said something in another thread from a week ago? The same guy who ALWAYS want to point out when people are wrong?

How many times do you say loudly SO CALLED EXPERTS because you disagree with them? 😂

You’ve done it in the last Prodigy thread but as usual everyone just ignored it lol.

And please enlighten me, who else have I insulted or belittled here? Please list them for me. You can’t because you know I don’t that. Not only do I not do that, I’ve always apologized if I think I offended someone. I apologized to you once. Funny thing is everyone else I talk to here I actually talk to like rational adults.

But name them bro!

You’re a man child still whining because people say bad things about fictional characters you like. Bro I’m pretty sure if I insulted Mariner you would’ve never got upset about it lol. Not once. This is why it’s a waste to try and talk to you.

This is why it’s a waste to try and talk to you.

Dude, you don’t even realize it when you outright lie lie this. You actually claim it’s a waste of time to talk with me, yet you have posted a freaking 24 times to me in the last 24 hours — and I roughly calculate that is about 11,000 freaking words. You just need about 10 more posts to have written a novella on me in 24 hours, and you claim it’s a waste to talk to me — that is just so precious…LMFAO :-))))

I thought we had agreed late last night that we were both just going to say what we are going to say, but no, I get online this morning and there are like 4 new posts from you personally lambasting you. YOU WANT TO DO THIS! Everyone can see that.

I must commend you though that the sheer audacity of this claim is world class level BS. You are loving this or you would not be dragging this on and on and on. You are getting exactly what you want from this, and it’s silly, immature and pathetic.

Actually this has been fun lol.

Alright I said my piece. Later.

LOL, OK I can agree with that. I am worn out with this, but yeah, this was kind of fun, which says a lot (probably not positive) about both of us. :-)



I just realized this but no one in this thread said one thing about Adolf. No one. You just brought it up out of nowhere and I here we are discussing it lol. Seriously I thought you brought it up because someone in this thread called her that first and you got triggered as usual.

What the bleep is wrong with you??? 😂🙄

So no one was even ‘trolling’ you in this thread but you just brought it up to argue for the 200th time because you are so bothered over it. Man get some friends or something. Get off the Internet for a week if you are always this uptight and just looking to get into fights and wanting to feel offended. And in this case something NO ONE even brought it up but you are triggered anyway lol. It’s just a message board for nerds to goof off on. That’s it. It shouldn’t be this hard.

My God you’re weird.

OMG, you the one who, post after post, keeps referring to comments I have made on LDS in the past — and you were the only person to bring up my LDS comments as I never brought them up here, and neither did Hammer72 who started this discussion (he was talking about Picard) — NOT ONE person except you first brought that up here.

Again, you give yourself a free pass for doing the same thing — in fact, you provide this weirdly childish diatribe with your emoticons getting all personal with making fun of me (which you always lower yourself to do, because you need that putting down people crutch to obfuscate your weak arguments), but you have the gall to call me a hypocrite for bringing up past things I did not bring up until yesterday. THE CRAZY THING ABOUT THIS IS THAT I ACTUALLY DON’T BELEIVE THAT YOU EVEN REALIZE HOW OBVIOUSLY HYPOCRITAL THIS IS…LOL

You know what, it just occurred to me, now I know why you worship LDS so much — your maturity level is right on par with Mariner. Life imitates art. :-))

Bro you keep bringing up the same arguments and then want to try and silence people over them. You’re the one obsessed with everything.

I’m not the one who got banned here, you did lol. Everywhere you go you probably get into the same childish fights over and over again because you can’t help yourself.

But you want to pretend everyone else has a problem.

Bro you keep bringing up the same arguments and then want to try and silence people over them. You’re the one obsessed with everything.

This is exactly what you are doing with me — but instead of doing it within Star Trek discussions like I do, you are doing it with personal attacks. You need to resort to petty trolling behavior of name-calling, belittling and pretend psychiatric assessments of me — because that’s all you can come up, and you basically have repeated those BS personal attacks in all of your attack posts since last night.

I have my faults, which I admit (unlike you – you take zero accountability). But I don’t do paranoid personal attack BS posts over and over against others here. You are doing that, and everyone here can see that, even those who like you.

Bro I have admitted my faults too. I was so bad I nearly got banned on another website because how badly I used to roast Enterprise and then JJ verse back in the day lol.

You think I’m bad now, you have no idea what I used to be like. 😂😥

I’m going to ask you again if I’m so bad who else have I ‘attacked’ here?

And I was pointing out you’re hypocrisy, one of the many reasons I stopped talking to in the first place. Which you admitted to lol.

So maybe…stop doing that!

So you are saying that you have NEVER attacked someone else here…never called someone nauseating, and never suggested no one on the board doesn’t like someone else here?

You are 100% positive you never said anything like this in regards to another poster?

Point it out. I may not remember so who is it?

My point is I don’t go around attacking people and certainly not having an opinion. If someone was a JERK and bullying others sure that could’ve happened. But you keep going on as if I just come here to make everyone’s lives miserable. I save that for home man.

I’m NOT trying to get in the middle of this dog fight lol. But you did give Alpha Predator a lot of grief…and it was WELL DESERVED grief too! ;D

Guy was a bully and the day he was finally banned was for the better for this board. OK, I’m done! :)

Oh yeah guilty as charged there! 😁

That fool just became a menace on this board and that’s what I’m talking about. I didn’t even care until he started viciously attacking me because I liked episode 9 in Picard season 3. He didn’t like it and was attacking everyone who did and acted so offended over it. Just bizarre. That’s when I knew he was nothing but a bully and weirdo. And I wasn’t the only one obviously.

Some of these guys here have serious issues that goes beyond being triggered over a TV show. 🙄

You keep saying I’m making fun of you? One more time what have I said is untrue?

I’m only stating your behavior on these boards which MULTIPLE people have stated as well.

Fine, you want people to stop calling Adolf Space Hitler, not going to happen lol. HOWEVER if you ask others not to respond to you that way I think people will respect that. But it’s a free board and no one cares but you so yeah.

Either way you can’t keep moaning about other’s behavior but then keep doing the same stuff as well.

The irony is I haven’t called her that in months…I think. 😂

And you know that’s not what I meant. It’s you constantly whining about people dissing Discovery but you have no problem doing the same things with shows you hate.

Nobody cares that you complain about other shows, but you can’t have it both ways if you expect anything to change lol.

I don’t disagree with this. Like I said, I admit that I have that hypocritical tendency.

So in other words it’s OK for you to talk smack about a show or movie you hate but you want the censor the rest of us when we talk about a show you like?

Do you not understand why so many people don’t like you or just want to ignore you? 🙄

This is just eye rolling and sad in so many ways. It screams ‘control freak’ in every scary way possible.

No, what it screams is that I am being honest on how I post, unlike you, who continue to constantly troll DSC fans with your Space Hitler name-calling (which is just so weird and juvenile, BTW). And that of course is hypocritical of you (given you won’t admit you are trolling, but complain about me), but unlike me, you won’t take accountability for it

Also, look at your kindergarten-like comment making fun of me because people don’t like me and that I am scary? LOL, WTF, seriously? Dude, what are we in grade school and having a popularity contest? Grow up, man. Lol, that’s just childish and weirdly pathetic.

Did you just tell someone else to grow up, the guy who gets into 10 fights a day with everyone here? The guy who wants to constantly remind people he is ‘right’ like a 10 year old to feel vindicated over some silly discussion online and admitted to being a hypocrite and a control freak on top of it?

You’re hilarious! 😂

And the only one who keeps having a fit because people keep calling Adolf Space Hitler. And something no one mentioned here but you are so sensitive in life you have to bring up. You got real issues.

Your the one dragging this on and on and getting personal about it, and you know you were the one who brought up my past LDS comments (which no one else had mentioned until you brought it up), but as usual, free pass for you, but I can’t do it of course…riiiiight! lol

Ask yourself why do you get into so many fights here to the point Silvereyes has to keep you in check? And that’s not an easy job btw. Do you think it’s everybody else that has the problem or maybe it’s just you sport.

I mentioned LDS as part of your hypocrisy because you have the fall to whine every time someone says Discovery sucks lol.

And then what’s even comical when someone whines that you say mean things about LDS you tell them people have the right to be critical. Genius take your own advice hypocrite. 🙄

It’s pretty much just you and another person — and that dude follows through with our mutual commitment to not address each other — I respect him for that.

I have zero issues with Silvereyes. He correctly calls me out on stuff, and I do on him sometimes as well. That dude has both integrity and is accountable.

What did I just read? Well it takes some amount of character to admit this and I’m giving you a slap in the back. Knowing this though, you should stop accusing others of being hypocrites then, especially if they’re not.

Thanks. But when someone keeps name-calling, “Space Hitler” on a lead character of a show that many fans like, that is most definitely trolling of the fans of that show — so then if that person whines incessantly about me being hypocritical, well that certainly is hypocritical of them then.

Thank you! The biggest hypocrite here and control freak is telling others they should be more respectful. Someone who feels ‘offended’ not because what people say about him, but what they say about a fictional character on a TV show. You can’t make this up lol.

His comment was for me — complementing me for taking accountability on my comments…something which I have NEVER seen you do here in regards to your role in this never ending series of belittling personal attacks, pretend psychiatric assessments, and constantly making fun of me.

I think it should be clear to everyone here now that your primary focus is to “slam me” in a very personal manner — because every single post you have now personally attacks me.

Dude tell me one thing I said that was false lol. Just being honest is ‘attacking’ you?

Okay I’ll play fair, please point out what I said was wrong or I was misrepresenting? You point it out and if it was off base I will apologize.


List them.

…the guy who gets into 10 fights a day with everyone here? 

Nope. There are two to three people who I have disagreements here periodically, and it is not close to daily. Misrepresentation

And something no one mentioned here but you are so sensitive in life you have to bring up.

That’s impossible for you to know given we don’t know each other in real life. Made Up Personal Attack

Do you not understand why so many people don’t like you or just want to ignore you?

Nope, for sure, several people may think this, but many? Then why aren’t any of them stepping in to back you up here? Where are they? Misrepresentation

Nobody cares that you complain about other shows…

Nope — I have good discussions with many here on other shows, so they obviously care enough to converse. Not truthful.

Funny thing is everyone else I talk to here I actually talk to like rational adults.

You may want to revisit some of those conversations I recall you having with A-Pred last spring. Stretching the truth.

The Brits have a perfect word for what you’re doing: whinging

Guilty as charged! :-)

Also the fact you just suggested that the moderator try to block what people say because you don’t like it says it all.

If you don’t want people calling someone Space Hitler, make your site then. I come to this site because fortunately the person who runs it believes in freedom of speech.

Tough for you I guess.

Happy New Years to you too.

Say whatever you want. I’m going to continue pointing out that that is petulant, childlike behavior that is also obviously trolling DSC fans. And sure, I hope the mods take more notice of it – so sue me! :-)

I will definitely say what I want. That we will always agree on! 😎


But then don’t you think that extolling the virtues of DSC ad nauseam saying most of the fanbase love the show and only a tiny amount of fans don’t and they’re only haters (this from another poster) is trolling the fans that don’t like DSC? This goes both ways.

Am I name-calling Mariner, “Space Lohan” because she is so “look at me,” needy, craves attention, etc. Nope. That name-calling would be an obvious attempt to troll fans of LDS.

But of course you can relax the definition of trolling to claim I am doing that, but that then works for probably 25% of all the comments on this site for any article on any given day here, so then the term becomes meaningless.

There are other ways to troll than by name-calling. Like when you bring up LDS in an article that has nothing to do with it, either directly or not. Like mentioning in a Prodigy article something like “at least it’s not like some other middle-school immature cartoon…” where it’s obvious that you’re referencing LDS. That’s definitely trolling, because you know most people here like the show and you’re just bringing it up to get a response, i.e. trolling.

Exactly! This guy is such a hypocrite. He acts like everyone goes out of their way to make him mad and he insults LDS every chance he can get and don’t seem to realize MAYBE fans of that show feels offended when he calls it immature and etc.

How many times have the moderators warned him about it? What does that tell you?

I don’t care either way. Unlike trigger boy it takes something important to get me upset and not discussing TV shows. But he admitted to me it’s OK for him to talk bad about the shows he hates but wants to cry crocodile tears when people say bad things about things he like.

None of this is healthy. 🙄

You are the triggered one here — since last night, you can’t help yourself but to keep personally attacking me with your immature comments like these you just brought up. I thought we were clearly done with this discussion last night when we both agreed that we were going to say what we wanted to say here, but now, I got multiple, childishly emotional posts with your personal attack BS here again this morning to read. What is wrong with you?

I’m wising up to you — and I expect others are as well — this is really all about your personally attacking me over and over, under the guise of a Star Trek discussion.

Actually you’re right I can be triggered to hypocrites and bullies. It’s the main reason I wanted to ignore you lol.

I love when you always say ‘hey others are catching on to you as’ as if I’m doing it behind people’s back. You pulled that same silliness on the other web site literally 4 years ago when I constantly slammed Discovery. You even told me the moderators would step in for giving my opinion about the show. How did that end up? Did anyone ever step in? 😂

Meanwhile…you were banned here before, correct?

I love it how when you run out of ideas on how to personally attack me you bring up my behavior 4 years back. Yet you shared this today on your own past:

I was so bad I nearly got banned on another website because how badly I used to roast Enterprise and then JJ verse back in the day lol. You think I’m bad now, you have no idea what I used to be like.

So here we go again with your double standard. You shit on my for my behavior years back, which I regret and learned from, but you did the exact same thing. That’s the textbook definition of a HYPOCRITE. You want to apply a different set of rules for me than for yourself.

And it’s so weird how most of your complaints about me like this you are also guilty of, but you seem so dense that I really believe that you consciously don’t even realize you are being a hypocrite — that is bizarre and disturbing, and some might conclude this as exhibiting sociopathic behavior.

But if you honestly can’t even realize you are doing all this, maybe I should just stop responding to you, as it’s actually kind of sad, and I don’t want to be contributing to that unfortunate condition, which I would certainly sympathize with as one human being to another.

And I think that’s what really bothers him too that people seem to genuinely like LDS but seem to mostly be negative about Discovery. Only thing I can say is grow up and get over it. They are just personal opinions, that’s life. It’s just insecurity of the most childish way.

This is someone who constantly tries to tell us how great Discovery is and literally wanted LDS cancelled after its first season lol. These are TV shows, not your life you shouldn’t be this angry and insecure about it.

Ah, so now we get “Episode 2” of personal attacks on me in the guise of another response to someone else. Give us all a 3rd episode please of your personal attacks on me, because I think it’s clear now that that is what this is really all about — you are so eager to nail me that you can’t even do it in a single responses to others. That is so sad.

What exactly did I say was false lol.

Weren’t you the guy literally bullying people telling others that LDS should never be canon? Am I wrong? You came off like a crazy person.

You’ve had it out for that show before it even premiere. You were hoping it was cancelled and upset that that show is way more beloved than Discovery is. If I’m wrong OK I will say so. But four years and 500 posts says otherwise lol.

No bullying, no craziness, but did I say LDS should not be considered canon many times? Sure I did. What wouldn’t I say that if that is my opinion?

This is another weird complaint about me by you? Like, hey congrats man, you were 100% correct that I said LDS should not be considered canon. Cha-ching! You score 10 points there…lol

Sure, but you just proved what I said — we can continually lower the threshold of how to define trolling and all of sudden lots of us are trolling.

I mean, I remember when you got seriously pissed off in a Gorn debate with someone awhile back — I imagine that would likely qualify under a lowered threshold.

No I don’t remember, I get pissed off too often to remember individual instances. We all have different thresholds for different things.

Well said!

Yet I never reduced myself to the level of doing middle-school level immature BS name calling of the actors/characters like a couple regulars here do on DSC, including another who just responded to you here (and I do think the moderators have failed us by not wringing in the Space Hitler name-calling by 2-3 regulars her who continue to use that garbage term).

You make absolutely no sense. Saying some here do “middle-school level immature BS name calling” is in fact middle-school level immature BS name calling!

LOL, that is so weak, dude.

I guess the irony is above your head.

Now that remark is hypocritical.

You know, English is not my first language, but all those episodes of Gilligan’s Island, Beverly Hillbillies, The Brady Bunch and of course Star Trek has given me decent mastery of the language, but I still can’t make sense of that statement.

Then I guess neither of us gets what the other was trying to say in this mini-thread. :-)

Except that I was specifically focusing on the childlike name-calling of the characters by a few here which is obviously intended to troll DSC fans.

No, you can look at all of my Picard season 3 posts and you won’t find any case of me lowering myself to that grade-school like level of behavior like that weird dude who’s responding to you continually does.

I specifically avoid the comment section of this site because of how toxic some haters are. On my computer I just block the entire comment section out.

Well said. I admire your discipline. I just can’t help myself to do that but I probably should.


I won’t lie they are brutal! 😆

But I don’t mind it, as long as people are civil to others. But no it’s not for the feint of heart. This site makes Trekcre feel wholesome by comparison.

Hey whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger!

Yeah. TM has a ‘reputation’ to say the least lol. It’s funny to go on Reddit and people describe this site as a bunch old curmudgeon fans still arguing if TNG is a ‘real’ Trek show or not 30 years later as if it’s still 1989.

I have never had a problem with it. I enjoy listening to people say why they think a show or film sucks as long as they are civil as you said and they are not trying to put others down for their opinion. I love 95% of the shows, old and new, and about 60% of the films. But if I was triggered every time someone bad mouth a show I liked, I don’t think I would’ve lasted on this board longer than a few weeks lol.

Why I say time and time again this place just needs an ignore button. You can only do so much by asking people to ignore you or trying to just not read the more toxic/argumentative stuff.

I disagree. If a show is not living up to what fans want, why should it continue limping on? If it gets further and further from the spirit of what made the old shows good, we don’t want Trek in name only.

Doctor Who was off the air for much longer and when it came back it took everything that made the old show good and made it better (for a while). That’s what we should expect.

No offense, but to me this year has proved the complete opposite of what you’re saying here. Look at how much people loved Picard season 3, LDS season 4, Prodigy and SNW season 2. This has honestly been some of the most beloved Trek in decades. Picard season 3 is the highest rated season of Trek on IMDB, period.

Majority of people support Star Trek….when it’s good! This idea that Trek fans are out to hate everything or ‘Kurtzman Trek’ is false. Yeah there will always be people who will not like something no matter what. They are still people, some on this board, who hates TNG 35 years later. And they have the right to hate it. Not everyone is going to be on board.

Discovery is a very divisive show for many reasons, the biggest being a lot of fans just think the shows suck, that’s life. People felt the exact same way about TNG, DS9. VOY and ENT at one time or another. As said, some people still feel the same way today, they are just more in the minority today. Maybe that will be the case with DIS as time goes on.

Picard is another example, people truly hated season 2 and I’m one of them. I really thought that show was as bad as DIS…and then season 3 happened and it turned a lot of people around if still not everyone. The Kelvin movies are another example. It’s more divisive IMO than outright hate, but most seem to have loved Beyond even if most didn’t bother to see it in a theater, especially after the disastrous STID.

This is more proof most fans are not out to hate stuff just to hate. If the stuff improves, most turn on a dime.

I would love for someone to disagree and tell me why I’m wrong, but this bares out time and time again.

Oops…I meant last year now lol.

As a ‘former’ Kurtzman hater I have agree with this. For me we had some great Star Trek last year. I loved every season. It doesn’t mean I loved every episode or thought it was all perfect but generally I enjoyed it all. And there was no Discovery so that didn’t keep the average down lol.

I had a few issues with Picard and SNW but mostly minor ones although I truly hated one SNW episode and no it wasn’t the musical. I don’t think I hated a single episode of LDS last season or PRO.

And I was the guy pushing for people to find Kurtzman car and burn it to send a message since 2009. Now I want to give it a car wash to thank him! 😆

Yeah there are real haters out there, agreed. But even I stay away from those freaks.

Exactly. Last year was a good year. MANY people agreed with that. Even some of the biggest haters of NuTrek became enamored with Picard season 3 like Rob Burnett, one of the biggest haters of all things current Trek since 2009 lol. If you could turn those huge haters around, even if it’s just for a single season, it does prove people aren’t out to just hate everything and that many acknowledged things have improved.

But to pretend it’s still a huge swath of people out there who hates every show because many are still divided on Discovery is once again false.

Let the hating begin — because surely these titles must be some of the worst titles in Star Trek history, right?


They don’t sound half bad to me, I just don’t know what any of them mean yet.

Yeah I like them too.

To be fair, the episode titles of this series have usually been much better than the episodes.

Most of these are good titles. Not so excited about Jinaal and Erigah though. I don’t like it when the put fictional names in titles, like ENT’s Rajin…

I was going to joke that ‘face the strange’ sounds like something from an 80s band, but I just checked and there is a UK band from the 90s with that name.

I’ve loved DSC since the beginning. I’ve enjoyed the growth and even (what I perceive to be) the flaws. I can’t wait for April … hopefully someone at Paramount Plus is smart enough to let it start on April 4th (the day before first contact). The mix of excitement and sadness is hard to describe.

I’m hoping to really like season 5 too!

NOT holding my breath! 😂

But if I can like a JJ verse movie (and admit it) there is still hope for me, right?

And hope you are having a good New Year’s my friend!

I know DSC is not your jam, but I do hope you enjoy the final season. Hope you’re having a great New Year’s. I had to put my 17-year-old cat to sleep on December 22nd (rapid onset kidney failure), so 2023 ended pretty awful for me … but Star Trek always keeps me hopeful. I have ten episodes of DSC, ten episodes of LDS, twenty episodes of PRO, ten more episodes of SNW, and a S31 movie to look forward to.

iMike I am so sorry about your cat. I grew up with a cat for 13 years. I was in college when she died. It felt like losing another family member. I can’t imagine what you’re going through right now. It’s an awful way to end the year for sure. I hope you guys pull through and of course you will but I know it’s hard.

And Star Trek is always there, that’s what comfort me as well. Even if it all ended tomorrow, we now have enough stories to keep us entertained for a lifetime…and yes that even includes Threshold.

Sorry you know I can’t go too long without making a joke.

Thinking about you buddy!

IMike, so sorry to hear about your cat, dude. It’s heartbreaking when our pets die.

Sorry for your loss.

Trek’s always been a comfort (and sometimes an escape) for me when things are rough – that’s probably why I get so protective of it.

I am so sorry as well. Never had a cat but had dogs that were closer to me than any human ever could be. They can be the most loving and loyal creatures on the planet.

And yes Star Trek can be a comforting tool to get us through grief or awful times. I remember when my grandmother died and I just watched TNG episodes that entire week to get my mind off of it only to realize how many episodes Star Trek had done about grief. It actually helped me a lot at the time. This was back in 2010.

Looking forward to the final season of DISCO! I have mixed feelings about season 1 and 2, but each season has been better than the previous one and season 4 features some of the Trekiest Trek since TMP.

I enjoyed seasons 1 and 2 (especially 2), but the show became completely unrecognizable to me as Star Trek after that. Maybe the last season will surprise me.

My thoughts exactly. Whether I like it or not I’ll definitely watch all the episodes.

That’s because they put Michelle Paradise in charge, one of the worst show runners ever.

I mean if a show got ‘worse’ how does that happen exactly? I’m guessing because the people who run it are throwing out really bad ideas. And she took over fully in season 3. I don’t think DIS has one one solid great season so far, but seasons 3 and 4 are just progressively awful because they brought in someone who used to make CW shows and not someone who has a real knack for science fiction or adult drama.

She thought a crying Kelpian kid crippling the galaxy was a good idea. Ugh.

Spot on Michelle Paradise is the reason Discovery declined so badly, unfortunately she is still writing episodes in the final season

Which is exactly why I’m not that hopeful about season 5.

Totally agree! 👍

She is an awful show runner. She could’ve made the 32nd century a really interesting and fun setting. Instead she turned it into a boring weepy melodrama for two seasons now.

Imagine if we had someone like Ron Moore in charge of this show??? Now that would be a great show runner who loves and breathes science fiction and can actually write real drama. Instead we got stuck with the CW lady. ☹️

Man I would SO love to have Ron Moore back lol. For All Mankind season 4 is great. Not as strong as I thought season 3 was so far but still an amazing and just an intelligent show with a gripping and thoughtful storry. And sadly it blows all the current Trek shows out of the water IMO.

Totally agree, Ron Moore would be amazing! For All Mankind is the best current sci-fi show by a country mile.

Yes, it started to go downhill fast starting at S3. It’s not a coincidence. I don’t know Paradise’s experience or other shows she worked on, but you can tell she doesn’t understand that science fiction needs to make sense. It’s not a carte blanche to do whatever you like whichever way you want. The Kelpian whiner was the proverbial straw for me.

The Kelpian kid causing the Burn was the single dumbest thing ever done in Star Trek. She should’ve been fired for letting that idea ever released on the show.

I really don’t know anything about her or if all the blame should fall on her, but it really did become a completely different show when she took over. From the maternity smock uniforms to the lack of a chain of command and professional decorum on the ship, it was clear to me that Discovery not only went to the future, but in my opinion, it also stopped trying to be Star Trek.

Discovery had an identity crisis from its beginning, but at least the first 2 seasons made an attempt to resemble Star Trek.

And yes, the cause of the Burn was very nonsensical.

To be fair I didn’t know who she was until she joined Discovery but looking at her resume, it’s basically all teen shows and rom-com show she apparently starred in. I guess she was also an actress. And that’s all fine, but she doesn’t seem to have a real pedigree for science fiction or more serious story telling.

She has a total of four credits to her name and the longest show she produced was called The Originals and based around young adult vampires. I wish I understood how people in Hollywood manages to get the jobs they get but it’s a head scratcher putting someone like this in charge of a prominent science fiction show and has never produced a single piece of science fiction before being given the job.

Based on the reports about the showrunners DIS had before her I guess it was her ability to deliver on time and on budget and not create a toxic working environment.
I just had a look at her IMDB page. Looks like her last acting gig was in 2011. She wouldn’t be the first actor to transition from acting to writing/directing/producing. Just look at Roxann Dawson or Robbie McNeill for Trek examples.

By the way: Michael Piller didn’t have a sci-fi background before being made showrunner of TNG. Neither did Jeri Taylor or Rick Berman for that matter.

Difference being all those worked or wrote on Star Trek for years and learned under others before running the show themselves. Berman wasn’t originally hired to executive produce TNG, just be Roddenberry’s partner who was clearly the one running it. He just took over full time when Roddenberry got health problems and Roddenberry trusted him and proved he was capable to do the job.

Fun fact about Piller, he wasn’t the original person tapped to be show runner in season 3, it was actually someone else first but then stepped aside. I can’t remember their name but that’s how Piller got the job and because he proved he not only understood Star Trek by then, he was just an amazing writer in general. Jeri Taylor didn’t become an executive producer until after two seasons on TNG and had supervised over 50 scripts by then. And she shared that job with Berman and Pillar both on TNG and then VOY.

In fact every show runner got promoted after writing on the show for years and had time to learn how to both run a show and that they proven they had fully grasped Star Trek stories.

Then we have Michelle Paradise, given the job after joining DIS at the very end of season 2 and according to IMDB wrote three episodes that season. She had no real experience working on Star Trek at all but now running a show on her own full time. And nothing says she has to have it but was she even close to the best person for this job? Given what she has turned DIS in the last two seasons, it doesn’t seem like it.

Piller’s first Trek writing credit was for season 3 episode 1. He took over as showrunner by season 3 episode 5. So no years of experience as you say.
I guess, the situation could be considered a bit similar to DIS. Early TNG had also seen quite some turmoil in the writers room, and it seems like Paramount took a chance on Piller (after Michael Wagner, who was supposed to run the show, walked away), and luckily for them it turned out well.
Paradise also took over after the chaos during seasons 1 and 2. Obviously, fan opinions about her work are more divided than opinions about Piller.

David Bowie reference in Episode 4’s title.

Also, I noticed a lot of the episode titles sound like they might be destinations, which makes sense, given the season is supposed to be a race for artifacts.

Since season four was a nice riff on “The Devil in the Dark,” I’m looking forward to this season’s riff on “The Chase” and “A Final Unity.”

the david bowie song changes is the song that has lyrics ch ch ch ch changes turn and face the strange in the chorus
that is one of my 3 favorite bowie songs the others are fame featuring john lennon and space oddity

Bowie was a legend.

I’m totally pretty ‘meh’ with Discovery at this point. Hopefully it will be better than it’s been. That shouldn’t be too hard lol. We’ll see.

Yeah, after what I considered to be abominable for the first half of S1, I thought the rest of the first season and S2 were pretty good. S3 was a disappointingly inconsistent and S4 was as you said, just MEH!

There is always hope for S5, just look at how bad S2 of Picard was (perhaps the worst Star Trek out there) then along came the final season and I think a lot of people really liked S3. We shall see.

Btw as for the hater arguments above, for the most part, I just don’t bother reading most of the posts, especially those from people who find all of NuTrek to be horrible. Objectively, some of the new show episodes are good and very good, while others are terrible or meh. The haters have their opinions and that is nice.

As for Trekmovie, I really appreciate their compilation of Trek news, so despite some of the hater posts, I hope people keep landing here.

I remember our discussions during season 4 and how they kept getting more and more disappointing lol. And it started off fairly well, but every season of DIS starts off well, minus season 1 lol, but most start to limp to the finish line and season 4 barely made it.

But yes we shall see. And I did think season 4 of Discovery was still light years better than Picard season 2, easily the worst season of Star Trek ever produced. I still can not figure out how that season was so bad as it was? It was just a complete train wreck after episode 2. But yeah season 3 was obviously better but that’s not hard lol. Maybe the same will happen with Discovery.

And I certainly don’t blame you or anyone not wanting to tread through the boards. They can be vicious lol.

Our last chance to FIND PRIME LORCA! :-)


That would be Episode 10 of S3 Picard Epic! Lorca was my favourite character (less so when he was exposed as the mirror version).

We agree on this!

If Prime Lorca appears, it would genuinely make me forget, ignore and forgive 75% of the things I dislike about DSC, and I mean that seriously. But now I’ll be disappointed if he doesn’t show up

That would be awesome!

I hope this isn’t another save the universe from a never before seen or experienced catastrophic event season.

…or a Star Wars ripoff season, or having musical and/or animated crossover eps.


I didn’t like the musical or cartoon episode but those weren’t the worst episode to me, that was Under the Cloak of War. Season 2 of SNW was very uneven at least half the episodes didn’t land or weren’t good. The show shows enough promise and i like the cast so i will watch season 3.

I wonder if all the canon violations and the new Gorn will add up to someone and be worth it, so far i haven’t liked them.

More accurate episode titles:
Burnham Saves the World
Burnham Saves the Federation
Burnham Saves the Galaxy
Burnham Saves the Universe
Burnham Saves the Multiverse

In the series finale, Discovery travels to the center of the galaxy and finds Burnham, confirming what we’ve long suspected – Burnham is God

Eve Harlow is terrible lol. Just watched The Night Agent (would not recommend) and she is so cheesy and over the top, chewing the scenery, and based on that preview clip from Season 5 of Disco she’ll be doing more of the same.

I don’t have a lot of hope this season will be better.