Anthony and Laurie catch up on Star Trek news this week, starting with the latest acquisition offer for Paramount Global from Skydance. They check in on the latest Picard spin-off talk from its showrunner and stars, then chat about a new interview with Elias Toufexis, one of the main villains of the upcoming final season of Discovery as well as Doug Jones’ comments about the finale. They round up some of the other highlights of Trek Talks 3, including a talk with Prodigy producers and Brannon Braga about the upcoming Janeway-Chakotay reunion, a “Tuvix” debate and some behind-the-scenes insights about the Lower Decks/Strange New Worlds crossover. They wrap up with Paul Giamatti’s “audition” to be a Klingon and a quiz about which Star Trek actor should give you a hug.
Links:
Skydance Makes Offer For Paramount Global; Star Trek Franchise Could Be Under New Ownership, Again
Michelle Hurd: ‘Star Trek: Legacy’ Will Happen “If The Fans Want It”
New ‘Discovery’ Villain Actor Talks “Pure Adventure” And Star Trek Callbacks In Season 5
Janeway’s “Tuvix” Decision Still Divides ‘Star Trek: Voyager’ Cast: “It Kind Of Hurt Her Character”
The Multiverse Is At Stake In ‘Star Trek Online: Both Worlds’ – Watch The Launch Trailer
Exclusive: First Look At The Battle Of Wolf 359, New Task Force Operation In ‘Star Trek Online’
Donate to the Hollywood Food Coalition
Bits:
Anthony: Watch: Paul Giamatti Auditions For Star Trek, Recreates His Iconic “Merlot” Moment In Klingon
Laurie: Quiz: Which Star Trek character do you need a hug from?
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how come nobody is asking if “Pale Moonlight” hurt Sisko’s character? Everyone applauds what a “badass” he was for dragging the Romulans into war. But Janeway makes a similar “good of the many” call and is still getting grief for it.
I think people do debate whether Sisko did the right thing. But it felt a bit more in character for Sisko. He was always willing to do whatever it took to win the war, while Janeway generally refused to sacrifice Starfleet ideals even if doing so would help them get home. Plus, in Sisko’s case, the “many” constituted billions. In Janeway’s case, the “many” constituted two.
I rewatched that DS9 episode about a year ago and thought Sisko definitely did the wrong thing. But I also don’t think Janeway’s decision was just about the many vs. the few. It was about her crewmates. Kirk would’ve made the same call she did… her responsibility was more to her crew members than to an entity created by a transporter accident.
Well, as a Starfleet officer, and as a human, I think she has a responsibility to all life.
Personally, I disagree with Janeway’s decision but I think her choice was understandable and I don’t think it ruined the character.
“In the Pale Moonlight” is basically Sisko giving a confession/trying to justify to himself what he did.
If “Tuvix” had a similar framing device with Janeway, I think people would be a lot more sympathetic.
Let’s see, similar actions, different fan response. What’s the obvious difference between the characters? Janeway has ovaries.
I think the framing device, where Sisko very openly shows his remorse over what he did, while also admitting he‘d do it again, and the stakes (fate of the alpha quadrant vs. fate of two crewmen) did the trick. I don‘t think Janeway‘s gender has anything to do with it and honestly even considering that is imho insulting to the character, Kate Mulgrew and the showrunners, who included Jeri Taylor at the time, one of the best female writers/ producers of tv imho, and also credited for almost single handedly calming the writing staff down and getting them through her mere presence to work together rather than against each other, at the beginning of season 4 of tng.
I do agree about the framing device. Janeway’s turmoil over her choice is mostly an inner struggle. On the “Tuvix” panel, they talked about the expression on her face, and that’s where you see the same struggle Sisko went through. And it’s significant that Janeway is on her own in the Delta Quadrant and has to shoulder her biggest burdens alone. And then separate from that, I think it’s a moral question that will always yield opposing opinions, which is the whole point.
Taylor’s also the one who started putting animal into the mouths of these vegetarian characters, among other sins I won’t ever forgive.
What on earth are you talking about? The only characters that have been shown to be vegetarians are (Syrannite) Vulcans. Some top-of-mind examples:
1. Kirk is told that there are “real turkeys” in the galley in “Charlie X,” one of the very first episodes. He doesn’t know how they got there, but he’s clearly used to the idea of eating Turkey.
2. Kirk ate a cheese pizza in TVH and, unlike with his beer, expressed no revulsion at it.
3. Una enjoys a hamburger in season 2 of DISCO.
4. Archer and Trip chow down on steak in ENT. Trip enjoys southern catfish, too, in “Dead Stop.”
5. Riker prepares eggs in season two of TNG. He also enjoys various Klingon dishes (gagh, pipius claw, etc.). Worf tucks into a Klingon-like octopus in “Genesis.”
6. Picard eats a Japanese dinner, including sashimi, in “The Pegasus.”
7. I remember Neelix preparing eggs on at least one occasion. (Admittedly, this could be consistent with vegetarianism, but not veganism.)
8. Sisko repeatedly talks about making various Cajun and Creole dishes, presuambly his father’s recipes, including jambalaya and crayfish etoufee. He did this in the very first DS9 episode!
9. Picard prepares a turkey in “Sins of the Father.” In INSURRECTION, Troi exclaims, of the alien guests, “Oh my God, are they vegetarian? That wasn’t in the dossier!” These examples show that the galley is accustomed to preparing non-vegetarian meals.
Now, maybe you can argue that some of these dishes were replicated (or “protein resequenced” or that they featured lab-grown meat or what not). I’m unsure that’s entirely consistent with vegetarianism philosophically, but set that aside. The scenes at Sisko’s restaurant clearly show traditional food preparation — Jake even shucked oysters — as did Riker’s breakfast, “Family” and Robert’s dislike of replicators, the similar dislike by O’Brien’s mother, Helena Rozhenko’s preparation of rokeg blood pie, etc. We also see multiple galleys on starships: Neelix’s kitchen, obviously, but also in TUC, TOS, INSURRECTION, and PICARD S3.
Now, there was that season one line from Riker about how “we no longer enslave animals for meat,” or whatever. But that line clearly contradicts what we’ve seen later — so much so that you either have to accept it as out-of-canon, or find some way to twist it into canon (e.g., he was exaggerating for purposes of shaming the reptilian aliens, who implied they wanted to eat the dog-like aliens).
I do use that s1dialog as a reference (it’s a pretty significant story point, as opposed to the window-dressing throwaway inclusions that counter it in later years), but don’t recall any clear examples of unreplicated meat eating by TNG Starfleeters/humans until Taylor’s tenure, and specifically on her scripts, early and middle of s4. Then the floodgates opened, esp w/ DS9.
Given that TNG had its own gatekeepers regarding what was continuity and what was kosher, I have to assume she and/or Berman overrode those notes, which would suggest a conscious effort to overwrite the initial (I assume GR-directed) specific inclusion of this eating practice.
The actions were not similar. Sisko had to recruit an essential ally into an existential war. Janeway had to make a personnel decision.
I think Garrett Wang has a point. They could have just done a Thomas Riker on Tuvix before they split him up.
But one of the two Tuvixes would still have to be sacrificed.
That’s true, but at least you’d still have one Tuvix. You might be able to do both procedures in a single transport, so the second Tuvix would never even know that it existed.
But which Tuvix do you separate? Each one has a soul, Tuvix-A and Tuvix-B. Each has a set of memories. Each is a life. Where do you draw the line now?
Its not a perfect solution, but its better than just killing the only Tuvix.
This merely concedes the point that you’re not, ultimately, a Kantian. That’s the whole ball game.
No, Garrett missed the point — for this to be a compelling story we’d continue to debate years later, there HAD to be a consequence. Janeway HAD to make a bad choice, no matter what she did. Otherwise, why bother telling stories like this and just stick with Irish townsfolk or whatever on the holodeck?
Well, yeah, in real life that’s true. I meant in-universe he has a point.
Any article or note coming out around Gary Graham passing? He played quite an important character on Enterprise – surprised that there hasn’t been anything. Unless I’ve missed something?
We posted on all of our socials as soon as we heard.
Thanks! Definitely missed that :)
My Star Trek hugger is Major Kira. That really makes a lot of sense for me. Scary accurate
Ha! See? It’s such a good quiz. What was the hug description?
Here’s the Kira-hug description: “you, my friend, need a pep talk from the coolest woman in the universe. kira is a bit awkward about affection after a rough life fighting for her survival, but she’s sincere, and she won’t rest until she’s convinced you that you can accomplish whatever you set your mind to. which you can!”
That tracks for me lol
Love it. I have yet to see one person say they didn’t agree with their results!
I got Hugh Culber, and no. Definitely do not agree
Oh no! What was the description?
I didn’t save it. ☹️Culber is a character I never think about.
Jean-Luc does have one more old enemy out there. An enemy that has come after him multiple times. An enemy that once faked Picard having a son.
Daimon Bok is still out there, still fixated on Picard, and now Jean-Luc really does have a son. He also has a surrogate son in the form of Elnor. Both serving on Starships.
Say what you want about Ferengi as villains, Bok wasn’t a joke. His first attempt only failed because of Data. Bok attacking or capturing the Enterprise G or Stargazer, Jack, Elnor, the LaForge sisters, Alexander, the “Legacy” of Picard’s crew in jeopardy.
This IMO could be a great last ride for a Picard “Long Trek” film (Long Trek is a nickname being used by Trekculture to refer to the Section 31 streaming film, and hypothetical similar projects).
Cast Danny DeVito as Bok and you’ve got yourself a picture. Seriously. Before he was a clownshoes on “Sunny”, he was the freaking Penguin. He’s got it in him. Trust me.
/
Man I’ve been watching DeVito since Taxi. That said, I don’t like Tim Burton movies or Always Sunny.
He’s actually too creepy as the Penguin, comes off with a real rapey vibe. I say that as somebody who loves ED WOOD and likes SLEEPY HOLLOW and find RETURNS a ton better than the fuzzy looking sleepfest that was the first Burton BatFlick, but usually don’t enjoy his movies and downright hate a few.
Then again I never ‘loved to hate Devito’ on TAXI, just hated the character and wish somebody had backed over him (maybe that guy who disappeared after s1?) But he would make for a helluva Ferengi (Quark’s dad maybe?) Maybe a Ferengi with a topknot at the back of the head, like Chang in TUC?
Great podcast once again. I do agree with Laurie that the business of Paramount is very important, but doesn’t hold my interest.
They asked in the podcast for a recommendation for a DS9 episode to have a Trek Talk about next year, and my recommendation is Far Beyond the Stars. One of the best episodes of Star Trek as a whole, very topical at the time, and honestly, still is. It pushed the boundaries for ST storytelling, and having nearly every actor out of their usual costume and makeup was quite different for ST. I have heard many of the DS9 actors mentioning this show as not only their favorite, but the best of the series.
Also Avery’s acting AND directing of this episode is without a doubt Emmy-worthy, and only because of the Emmys not recognizing genre shows during the 90s did it not get the attention it so truly deserved.