The final episode of the fifth and final season of Star Trek: Discovery arrives on Thursday with the tenth episode, and we have details, new photos, and a clip WITH SPOILERS.
Episode 10: “Life, Itself”
The season finale, “Life, Itself”, was written by Kyle Jarrow & Michelle Paradise and directed by Olatunde Osunsanmi. The episode debuts on Paramount+ on Thursday, May 30.
Synopsis:
Trapped inside a mysterious alien portal that defies familiar rules of time, space, and gravity, Captain Burnham must fight Moll – and the environment itself – in order to locate the Progenitors’ technology and secure it for the Federation. Meanwhile, Book puts himself in harm’s way to help Burnham survive and Rayner leads the U.S.S. Discovery in an epic winner-takes-all battle against Breen forces.
Co-showrunner Michelle Paradise previously teased this episode saying, “Part of me wants to say the end of an era. But that just sounds so sad. I don’t wanna say that! Hopefully it’s all the things that Discovery has always been. Action, adventure, heart, family, love, sci-fi wonderfulness, beautifully acted, beautifully directed, production values, gorgeous VFX. It’s everything we have always had in Discovery in one episode.”
The episode includes additional footage shot after Paramount+ decided to make season 5 the last. This has been described as an “epilogue” to bring “closure” to the series, added on to the originally shot season finale.
Just 2 preview photos:
Doug Jones as Saru and Rachael Ancheril as Commander Nhan (Michael Gibson/Paramount+)
Sonequa Martin-Green as Burnham (Michael Gibson/Paramount+)
Episode trailer
Clip
You can see a clip from “Life, Itself” from the latest episode of The Ready Room below…
The fifth and final season of Discovery debuted with two episodes on Thursday, April 4 exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., the UK, Switzerland, South Korea, Latin America, Germany, France, Italy, Australia, and Austria. Discovery also premiered on April 4 on Paramount+ in Canada and will be broadcast on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel in Canada. The rest of the 10-episode final season will be available to stream weekly on Thursdays. Season 5 debuted on SkyShowtime in select European countries on April 5.
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It looks like a big finish!
I feel bad for all the fans for who DSC is THEIR Star Trek…
We all know the pain when our fav show is off the air…
DSC is by far not my favorite Trek and sometimes aggravates me no end, but I recognize that it has qualities that make it worth watching and I will miss it. I’m thinking to re-watch it from S1…
I don’t know if I will miss it personally but fully agree with your assessment.
There are definitely qualities about the show I truly liked and it was probably the show that took the most risks since DS9.
And while I haven’t been overly happy with the direction the show has been taking since season 3 I still think going into the 32nd century is the best idea it had and could simply be it’s own show without the constant TOS comparisons in its early days and set the universe however it wanted.
For fans like me, that’s really what makes Trek the most exciting–to boldly go!
I firmly believe that jump into the future essentially bought Discovery 3 more seasons.
Ya know for me it’s sad if for no other reason that not since Enterprise have we had to deal with losing a Trek show. I hope SNW and others stay on for a while.
It is a little depressing that four out of the five shows have been cancelled within the last two years. Yes I know Picard was only meant to go three seasons, but still the same outcome regardless.
But yeah streaming is just a different animal and with Paramount+ woes, it’s probably not too different from what UPN was going through and just hoping it sticks around. It’s pretty incredible UPN even survived 11 years given everything. I seriously don’t see Paramount+ lasting that long without a major paradigm shift. But that’s probably true of a lot of these services.
I think SNW will be safe for a while and it probably will get to five seasons at least but I’m still not sure that’s a guarantee if things go south with P+. But it will probably be fine for the next few seasons. And hopefully SFA will be a hit too.
Ya streaming is a totally different beast and the days of 7 year long shows on traditional network television are just over. Honestly 5 years in this new era is pretty impressive. I can think of way more popular shows that didn’t last that long.
In the end like you said everything depends on what happens with P+ and Paramount as a whole. Till then I take absolutely nothing as a certainty.
I realize you probably mean seasons but Discovery has been running for seven years. Series premiere to series finale will be just about the same as TNG.
Generations, PLEASE!
Taking the most risks is a good assessment.
Yeah I don’t know if people can really argue against that even if you still hate the show. It’s the only one that completely upended its entire premise and put it in another time period completely after just two seasons in.
Plus leaning in on exploring emotional intelligence and connection above all else. It’s a big departure from other Trek shows that tend to focus on the quest for knowledge first.
I did a Se 1 & 2 rewatch recently, really enjoyed it more the second time around (and knowing it gave us SNW as well).
Agree completely, for the following reasons: it always felt more like a very ham-fisted way to make contemporary social-commentary than a Star Trek drama. Yes I know… ST has always been about reflecting the ills of contemporary society… but they were incorporated more subtly.
I never liked that way existing cannon was thrown out the window, especially in the early seasons.
I never bought into the conceit that people from the 23rd century could land hundreds of years in their future, and fit in so easily. The time-jump was not to a society that should have been almost unrecognizable but to one that was Discovery-like but with cooler star ships and transporters.
So many times the show changed focus and direction – it was dizzying. BUT, like you I will probably re-watch from the beginning, now knowing (almost) the conclusion.
As much as people hated it, without Discovery Star Trek would still be dormant/dead.
Discovery heralded the Star Trek renaissance.
I for one am glad that the Academy series will be spun-off from DIS rather than take place in the past. That said, if it had taken place at the time of Kirk and Spock it likely would have done the same things people hated about the first season of DIS, yet people would have ignored it.
I think the main reason I’m glad that Starfleet Academy is set in the 32nd century is because it feels less like we’re leaving behind Discovery itself, and more like we’re continuing alongside it. That, to me, has helped considerably.
Yeah. I do hope some characters carry over. If members of the Voyager crew could become instructors at the academy in Endgame, the same could be true of members of the DIS crew.
I for one expect the series to be like Wrath of Khan, focused on final year cadets on their first shakedown cruise like was done with Scotty’s nephew and Savik rather than a series set entirely in a college campus like in TNG’s The First Duty.
The former would be truer to the spirit of Star Trek while the latter would be indistinguishable from series like Gen V and the like.
For me, I’d like the academy series to be about cadets on their final shakedown cruise who crash land and become stranded on a strange new world with new life and new civilization becomes their academy setting, you know? Rather than a familiar and safe campus, they instead learn by doing while trying to survive in an inhospitable place.
I ‘believe’ it’s going to be campus. They said this is the largest set ever constructed.
I’d expect something like what we saw in Voyager with Species whats-its-number.
Wow, bigger than the Promenade on DS9??
Yep…
The series will start filming in Toronto later this summer. It will feature the largest contiguous set ever built for a “Star Trek” series, including an academic atrium with an amphitheater, classrooms, a mess hall, and a tree-lined walkway.
Wow. That’s impressive and shows they have a lot of faith in the show.
Cool beans. Sounds like P+ is putting a lot of faith in the new kid in the family.
Yeah it really sounds impressive. The irony is many thought the were making an Academy show to save money but hearing how grand the set is and now has hired a big name actor like Holly Hunter to lead it is proving the very opposite.
Nitpick: Saavik wasn’t an Academy cadet. She was a commissioned officer (Lieutenant.) She was probably in Command School.
That’s the way I always thought too. In fact I think that’s what they should have done with Kelvin Kirk in ST 2009 to explain how he should be older than others minus Spock and Bones and more importantly how he became Captain so fast. He should have already served on the Farragut and Republic by then.
Ah, okay.
Not necessarily. There were a bunch of uniform errors- that is, what we saw on screen didn’t really match the guide the designer made up- in the “monster maroon” era (WOK through TUC), and some of them involve Saavik.
Comparing her WOK uniform to her SFS one may confirm your point, but it’s still a bit confusing.
She was referred to as “Lieutenant” several times. Lieutenants are commissioned officers, not cadets. Graduating from the Academy, you get your commission and become an Ensign. So Saavik has presumably been commissioned for a few years.
Right, and she wore lieutenant JG’s insignia. But her branch color was red, which is for cadets and trainees. (There are cadet lieutenants, by the way.)
Problem is, in the next movie, which takes place basically a few days later, she’s already in command white. (It should have been at least partly grey, but that was another goof.)
If she is in Command School — which makes the most sense — that’s why she’d be wearing red.
Right, I had that thought- that you keep wearing red into post-graduate studies. That makes the most sense.
“without Discovery Star Trek would still be dormant/dead.”
I find this to be such an odd sentiment. If it wasn’t Discovery, it would be something else that got shows running again. Star Trek is far too strong of a franchise to be completely dormant, it just needed time and money to get going.
I admit I never understood what this means exactly. I know what people are TRYING to say but it just doesn’t make sense.
The fact they put out multiple big budget global Star Trek movies a few years prior with the first two profitable and a lot of fanfare already made clear the franchise was never close to dead or dormant; it simply needed a break after nearly 20 years of nonstop content.
And I’m guessing if they decided to make Picard first instead of Discovery the fanbase would’ve been even more receptive getting back one of the most iconic characters in the franchise while going back to the prime universe again and more importantly, just going forward again which the majority of fans were craving for after Enterprise and the Kelvin movies.
The Kelvin movies didn’t really do much to revive the franchise, though.
To be clear, given the setting of Discovery (just a decade before The Original Series) it COULD have been a prequel to Star Trek 09, but even the people that made it didn’t want that, choosing to instead make it canonical to the previously-existing series and completely ignoring the Abrams trilogy.
I would say the Kelvin movies were weird in that they introduced a whole new generation to Star Trek, some of which didn’t even like the Kirk or Picard eras. But many of the hardcore fans seemed turned off. It was like a complete reversal of what you would expect.
Yeah.
Yeah that was always the main problem with Star Trek. If you keep it to its nerdy/philosophical/science roots it attracts the fans but lose most of the mass audience. That’s been the case literally since TOS and I don’t think it has changed at all.
But when you try to make it less of those things and just more a popcorn action franchise with the other stuff more in the background you can grab more of a general audience but you lose the people who made it the success that it was in the first place.
It’s just so tricky and it seems to be a hard balance to nail. And it probably tells you why the movies have stalled because they have no idea how to find that right balance and why so many ideas have come and gone.
Exactly because Star Trek is philosophical in nature and it is hard to make a pew pew action movie where everyone on the bridge is saying let’s negotiate! Honestly with the exception of First Contact I think the TOS movies were ever the ones to find the proper balance. ST IV didn’t even have a bad guy and ignored all the physical action in favor of a more comedic tone. ST VI did the reverse and said this is dead serious and we are trying to negotiate and have piece but there will always be outliners that are against it and will fight to the end.
Yeah the TOS movies did it the best even though they never really attracted a new audience, but probably had the best formula in general with TVH being the best example as you stated.
Once we got to TNG and the JJ movies, suddenly it just became these heavy villain action movies and little else. Insurrection felt more Trek-y and TNG but it was still essentially an action movie, just one with other elements to appeal to TNG fans.
We’ve mentioned this to each other before but Trek is at its best when it is not trying to be everything to everyone. It will never be Star Wars or the MCU. The best part about movies like TVH is they did very well (for the audience) in theaters and their budgets were tiny by comparison. ST 2009 costs 100+ million to make and while it did recoup and then some, it’s not the # Paramount needs to keep doing it.
Maybe I will be proven wrong on this but I think the days of $150+ million Trek movies are probably over now.
They never should’ve been more than that in the first place but with the movie climate these days these movies should be $120-130 million TOPS. $100 million being the most ideal.
Look what just happened with the new Mad Max movie. That movie is going to flop big time now because some genius gave it a $170 million budget even though the last movie just broke even making $380 million… from 9 years ago. And that budget was around $150 million.
I remember arguing back then on IMDB the budget was ridiculous because LIKE Star Trek the Mad Max movies have never been a huge money maker. Strong movies for their budgets back in the day but not Star Wars either. They were made less than TOS movies back in the 80s.
But someone got in their head let’s turn it into some big tent pole franchise instead of a middle tier property they always been. But Fury Road was able to break even with an already ludicrous budget then maybe the next one will double it. It will be lucky if it even makes it to $300 million now. It’s more than likely to finish at $250 million.
You heard me say this about the next Trek movie making $300 million tops and I have little faith it will do any better than what Furiosa did.
When the big boys are bringing in a fraction of what they brought in a few years ago, lower tier franchises like Mad Max and Star Trek isn’t going to just make half a billion dollars no matter how many explosions, fist fights and FX you throw in.
Especially for a movie franchise that hasn’t produced a movie in over a decade. Make it smaller, gear it to your audience without trying to put in China or appeal to 10 year olds and they can still make a profitable movie with a more modest budget. It’s just not going to be as profitable as the big boys. Period.
And how many of these big budget movies have to flop or become massive disappointments before they realize the movie audience is shrinking and people are staying home more?
They need creatives in the driver’s seat who want to give each film something special – something for the audience to hang on to. Narratives redressed from other IP will fail in theaters.
the way its looking Furiosa will be lucky to finish with 150m total worldwide
I dread to think what a 190m budget ST4 would bring in these days! (id still want to see it tho lol)
Yeah you could be right and it ends up that low. But I do like to think word of mouth will carry it to a bigger number at least since oddly both the critic and audience scores are very high. And that must be very frustrating for everyone who made the movie or any movie who really put out a quality product and spent years making it as perfectly as they can for not enough people to care.
Same thing with the Kelvin movies. In reality looking at the RT both critics and audiences scores they really should’ve just made way more money than they did. Despite how divided they are in the fanbase they are very popular for the general audience which was the point.
But sadly it just proves these franchises are still more niche outside the true believers and no matter what you do it will always be a ceiling of some kind and why making $200 million movies are a complete waste for things like Star Trek or Mad Max when the demand is simply NOT there.
In terms of running the franchise, there’s a reason Paramount is looking to the guy who (more or less) was guiding hand at the X-Men franchise. Quality aside, they turned out profitable flicks on a pretty consistent basis. Godzilla Minus one and Godzilla x Kong were both effects heavy and made bank on modest budgets. Just not billion-dollar bank. So, it can be done.
Agreed. And I’m neutral on Kinberg
He seem to be responsible for just as many good films as bad ones so I have no issues with him. But of course the Internet being what it is everyone just focus on the stuff he screwed up on lol.
But if they actually get the prequel movie made (very skeptical of that at the moment ;)) and it actually makes money then yeah maybe we will start seeing movies again and maybe the final Kelvin movie will happen.
But if it crashes and burns after waiting 10 years for another one, then wave goodbye to another movie for a long long long time.
Hopefully this movie is in the $100 million or less category to even have a shot of making a decent profit.
How do you know this? It seems very likely that the financial success of the first two Kelvin movies showed the powers that be that there is still a viable audience for Trek.
I think the fact that they chose not to continue the Kelvin-verse speaks volumes.
As I pointed out, Discovery COULD have taken place during the events of Star Trek ’09, when Kirk was at the academy or whatever, but the people that made it decided not to do that and instead set it in prime canon.
Discovery’s ties to Enterprise in the first season were stronger than any ties it had to the Kelvin timeline.
I think more people enjoyed the reference to Archer’s visit to Qo’nos than they would have any reference to Star Trek ’09.
I agree with some of this but not all of it.
A. They were still planning to make Kelvin movies but yes sadly Beyond stalled everything after that. But they still saw that universe very viable and important to the franchise. It’s not like they were just cancelled once they announced a new TV show.
B. Paramount wasn’t making Discovery, CBS essentially was and they had NO ties to the Kelvin movies at the time. All the money they were making was solely from the prime universe, ie, merchandise, distribution and licensing rights, etc. So it only made sense for them to go back to that universe because that’s basically was CBS domain and not the Kelvin movies. If we want to get technical, the Kelvin movies were basically like Fox owning the X Men and Disney owning the MCU. They were essentially very separate entities, but were still considered canon to each other story wise because it was still under the same corporation.
C. Of course Discovery had more ties to Enterprise than the Kelvin universe because from Discovery POV (and any of the shows POV) they didn’t even know about the Kelvin universe existence, and technically it didn’t exist until a hundred years later after Nemesis; so there was really no way to tie it to those movies even if they wanted to. We had to wait until Discovery landed in the 32nd century just to get a single reference from Kovich they knew the other universe even existed by then and only became aware of it due to the Temporal Wars.
Now ALL that said, yes I agree, it made way more sense to go back to the Prime universe anyway because that’s what the fandom wanted and they clearly knew that. And the fact that we’ve had five, soon to be six, new TV shows and not ONE of them takes place in the Kelvin universe even though now technically they can make them does tell you that the Kelvin movies probably never caught on to the level that they were hoping unfortunately.
Again huge irony considering people were predicting the prime universe was going to go the way of the Dodo and basically forgotten by the time the Kelvin reached its fifth movie and all the spin off possibilities people had in their heads.
That said I do think we may get something from the Kelvin universe on Paramount+ if another movie is never made. I think it would be great if they pulled a Picard season 3 and just did a limited season with the cast as their final swan song. It would be a great thing to do for fans of those movies to tie up their story and it could be much cheaper option which is probably the reason the movies are still DOA.
B: But if CBS had wanted to make a Kelvin series they would have found a way to do it, even if it meant licensing it from Paramount. The fact that they got Kurtzman to make DIS for them shows that they wanted to work with people involved with the Kelvin-verse.
C: The Kelvin universe began when Kirk was born in 2233. In 2255, he enlisted in Starfleet, which is a year before the first season of Discovery set in 2256. If they had wanted to, they could have certainly set the series in that timeframe.
As I said though CBS didn’t have the rights to those movies, Paramount did INCLUDING merchandise sales. We have to keep things like that in perspective. In the prime universe it’s 100% all theirs and it was not a question which universe brought in more either since the Kelvin movies merchandise dried up after the first movie. I honestly can’t remember a single product they even made for Beyond. I’m sure they had some merchandise for it, I just can’t remember anything personally.
And let’s also remember a big reason they were in another universe because then Paramount didn’t have to worry about anything that happened in a future TV show or vice versa. I think both sides were just happy to keep things separate since they were under different companies.
As for your other point that would’ve just confused things more because then it would’ve meant Discovery would’ve been aware of the timeline changes a century before they were supposed to happen. Yeah it’s all timey whiney stuff but that’s the problem because from their POV it’s not supposed to have happen yet and would’ve confused people And why it was easier to reference in the third season because it already happened centuries ago.
But look I’m not disagreeing with you that much. I already said it made way more sense to go back to the prime universe because simply put that’s the universe most of the fans cared about and wanted to go back to. And when they saw the poor box office Beyond brought in, that probably confirmed they made the right choice in the end
It’s not to say people didn’t care about the Kelvin movies, but they never made the universe compelling enough that would get old fans to care more when the Kirk, Janeway and Picard they knew and grew up with was in the original and more developed universe.
But I’m going to say it again, if this was a decade ago it would’ve been the opposite argument for some. The idea that people cares more about Enterprise than these movies would’ve seemed ludicrous to others at the time. Certainly back in 2009.
Now there is nothing ludicrous about it.
Beyond just had the usual Trek items. official film magazine, coffee table book, and many 50th anniversary magazines. But no comic adaptation (neither did ID) or even a IDW ‘Countdown’ or novel (maybe due to the late script/Orci ST3? then after it underperformed maybe Paramount just figured why bother..)
Yeah it is pretty wild Trek went from the kelvinverse back to prime (including a full on TNG sequel and with 7of9 no less), a complete reversal with questions now as to if the kelvinverse will ever return (like there was about prime in 2009-16), doesn’t seem that long ago the kelvin/JJ verse was all that mattered/cool and was attracting younger audiences, and primeverse was a relic from a time long past..
It’s crazy that the movie came out for the 50th anniversary and there was basically jack all nothing for both the movie and anniversary itself. You would think they would’ve went all out that year and have both a ton of movie and anniversary tie ins.
But nope! It really spoke volumes just how much the ‘hype’ had all but disappeared by then. I know we spoke about this way too many times but it tells you how badly both the studio squandered the chance to make these movies a must see entity after the second one and the people making them not being imaginative enough sticking to the same formula three movies in a row. By then too many people just stopped caring.
And yes maybe we will still get another movie since they keep saying we will lol. But I think people would rather have a Legacy movie than another Kelvin movie because that’s the universe, time period and characters a lot of fans want.
I have said I never believed the prime universe was dead just like I never believed Star Trek in general was dead after Enterprise was cancelled. It was all going to come back eventually. It’s no way you abandon a 40 year old universe with 700 hours of shows and movies that millions of fans grew up with and was still very much devoted to. Especially for a set of popcorn action movies that many of those same fans thought missed the mark of what made Star Trek special in the first place.
Looking at that other current article thread of people citing their favorite TNG episodes and it’s a lot of stuff like Inner Light, Drumhead, Yesterday Enterprise, Measure of a Man etc. That tells you the kinds of stories that have gravitated fans to this franchise for decades now and very little has to do with killing off vengeful ubervillains with big ships carrying bioweapons trying to take out the universe.
I just realized I been making Michael Sacal’s argument for him lol.
Again he’s not wrong, it was Star Trek return to TV and the prime universe that excited fans again but it’s also wrong to just completely discount the Kelvin movies as well: especially the immense excitement there was for that first movie. A big budget TOS movie rebooting everything really felt like we were moving in the next phase of Star Trek that was going to reenergize the franchise and it did. But it was never going to appeal to everyone in the long term either after the shine wore off on the new toy and fans just wanted a return to the basics which we now have today thankfully, even others still hate all of it lol.
Hah.
The problem with that IMHO is ST 2009 and STID may have had the Star Trek name but they weren’t billed as Star Trek. Everything about them screamed blockbuster summer movie and such. It even had the slogan this isn’t your father’s Star Trek. I guess what I am trying to say is nothing “Star Trek” related sold those movies to general audiences.
But your argument was that Star Trek was dead and dormant, not just the prime universe itself. The success of those movies (even if we can argue exactly how successful they were in the end) proved that Star Trek as a franchise still had tons of life and vigor in it. It was never ‘dead’ just needed to take a break and/or go in a new direction (at least for a little while).
And to this day it’s really the only thing in NuTrek that was successful enough to bring in masses of new fans. I don’t think Discovery or any of the other new shows have brought in many new fans beyond just the peripheral. I can’t tell you any person in real life who has watched it that was completely green to Star Trek versus the Kelvin movies that I literally went with people who’ve never seen Star Trek before. As much as some people (not you) want to put down the Kelvin movies today, the reality is they did both revived fan interest who was tired of the old formula and got newer and younger fans invested in the franchise. There were actually teenagers excited about Star Trek again…who knew that was possible lol.
But yes it is very ironic having these discussions today because the argument then was the prime universe was dead and buried forever and anything new that will come out of Star Trek would be from the Kelvin universe for the next 20 years. Yeah, didn’t quite work out that way.
And more proof how strong nostalgia is, especially for something that was around for 40 years and had over 700 hours of Trek content fans were missing and wanted back.
They reestablished Star Trek as a major franchise. The films went from $70-95 million grosses to $220+ million in North America alone. The films got the best reviews for a Star Trek film in over a decade. The revival proved the franchise could have mass appeal again.
The budgets were too high, but clearly there’s a way forward to be more than a minor hit with a small budget. That means we’ll still be getting more films once Paramount’s future becomes clearer.
We may, but they won’t necessarily be set in the Kelvin timeline, which makes it redundant.
They grossed over a billion dollars and had the general public and media talking about Star Trek for a decade when there were no TV shows. They’re only redundant when looked at through the narrowest of lenses, one which might view -any- alternative timeline story as such!
And what got it going was Discovery. Discovery led to everything else that followed. Without, there is no indication any of it would have been made.
Discovery had a bit of a convoluted origin, though. Didn’t it begin life when Netflix approached CBS/Viacom about re-launching Enterprise back around 2010-11? CBS/Viacom declined but that started the ball rolling for an original streaming show on their own CBS All Access service. What became Discovery was originally pitched as an anthology series taking place in different times on different ships named Discovery. So yes, Discovery did launch all the other streaming Treks, but it didn’t necessarily have to be Discovery. Netflix would have been happy with Enterprise 2.0.
How it began isn’t all that relevant, though, other than in none of the scenarios you bring up was a new Trek series connected to the Kelvin universe.
Sure it is. The first streaming Trek show was Discovery, but basically any new streaming Trek show would almost certainly have had the same effect. Look at Picard and all the fanbase talk about wanting a Legacy spinoff. And I’m not all that sold on Picard only happening because of Discovery, I think it has more to do with Stewart wanting Logan-like closure for the character that Nemesis and the Berman-era movies failed to provide.
Discovery gets credit for sustaining and reiterating Star Trek’s appeal on the small screen as a big budget streaming draw. It’s success did make it easier to greenlight all the other shows, and SNW is the most direct beneficiary as a direct spin-off.
I do raise an eyebrow as to your speculation about what naysayers would have let slide if the show hadn’t been a prequel to TOS. No need to get into that kind of supposition.
True, but sometimes I wonder how much the Abrams movies helped us get to Discovery.
Edited: Oh, I see this is discussed below.
What heralded the return was the budget and discussions beforehand. Discovery wouldn’t have existed without those. We could have had a much better show, and a much better ‘new era’, rather than the patchy one we’ve had. Some massive highs, some massive lows. None of the consistency of Classic Trek, which trundled along nicely.
The producers’ mistake was in changing the series to appease those that hated the first season. They should have never done that.
The first season was a train wreck, though. It was all over the place due to the revolving door at the producer’s office. Too many missteps in the beginning that took too long to correct. Season 2 was far better, but the jump to the 32nd Century was another major misstep, and I don’t think the show ever really recovered. The COVID-crippled fourth season probably doomed it.
By missteps I take it you mean how the Klingons look, the advacements in technology, etc.
Those were not missteps, they were improvements on the poor production values of The Original Series.
SNW did the same thing to the Gorn that DIS did to the Klingons, but somehow the former is acceptable whereas the latter is not.
SNW is also as guilty of making improvements to the Enterprise that contradict how the ship was portrayed in the ’60s just like DIS showed more advanced starships than TOS did.
Of course, you may also be referring to Michael being Spock’s sister.
That, too, was not a misstep, just like Sybok or Sulu’s unseen wife who gave birth to their daughter were missteps.
These characters can have extended families they never talk about. That is not a misstep.
“SNW did the same thing to the Gorn that DIS did to the Klingons, but somehow the former is acceptable whereas the latter is not.”
Many many people have been complaining about the Gorn as well lol. They haven’t gotten off scout free to the point people working on the show have commented on the complaints. But the difference is the Gorn was a very little seen species until now. Always referenced here and there but basically bigger in name than actual presence.
But the Klingons are probably the biggest and most known species in Star Trek and has been in over 100 episodes and 7 movies. So of course when you change them so dramatically people were going to have a deep opinion about it, especially when they were just too different to the point of distraction for many fans.
The Klingons had to be changed, though. Portraying them using white actors in blackface and Fu Manchu makeup might have “worked” in the ’60s, but it doesn’t work in the 21st Century. Specially when part of the plot involved one of them altering their facial features to make themselves look human.
The actor that played Ash Tyler didn’t need makeup to make himself look like a TOS-era Klingon, he just needed to grow a beard to make himself look like one.
Um, yeah they were changed back in the 80s that people accepted right away. Who suggested we were only talking about the TOS variety?
You literally skipped over 30 years lol.
And I always say the problem with the Discovery Klingons wasn’t that they were changed, but it was a BAD change to many people that was mostly the issue. It’s been pointed out other species like the Romulans and Trill were changed as well but it was much more subtle so most people just didn’t care.
What they did with the Klingons were just too distracting. And because they were so prominent in the first season you couldn’t ignore them at all
What they did to the Klingons had to be done because of the time frame Discovery took place in, in which Klingons were portrayed by white actors in blackface and Fu Manchu makeup as established in The Original Series and Enterprise on account of the cure to the Augment virus altering their genome.
Portraying they way they looked before the virus infected them as depicted in Enterprise or after they got cured as depicted in The Motion Picture would have gone against canon.
Picard established on screen why certain Romulans looked different (they’re northerners).
That would not have worked in Discovery because of the plot with VoQ and Ash Tyler.
DIS could NOT show pre and post Augment virus Klingons on screen. If it had, then Tyler would have just looked like a post Augment virus Klingon and no one would have bought the subterfuge that he was a human.
I like to think that had the series continued on its intended path rather than changed things during the second season we might have gotten to learn more about the in-between type of Klingons from season one, just like Picard did with the Romulans.
I see them as a step in the direction toward cleaning their DNA of the vestiges of Phlox’ cure that changed their appearance, resulting in the return of the pre-virus Klingons in TMP decades after DIS and TOS.
Well more power to you but I think it was just an all around mistake to do it. And obviously the producers agreed because not only were they changed in the very next season but every show after it just want back to the TOS movies/TNG look including SNW which is literally in the same time period as Discovery was. And they haven’t been seen on Discovery since which is clearly deliberate because no show has gone more than a season without showing them until now. Even Picard snuck in a Worf photo in season 1 and that was probably done to let people know Worf will still look like Worf so don’t panic lol..
But I will go halfway on this and say I didn’t have a problem if they kept them either, people just wanted to see the originals too. Again this was the entire problem with Discovery and it basically acted as a reboot and not really a continuation of what we knew before.
If they found a creative way to explain them, fine. But they didn’t. And there were so many theories about these Klingons, one I really liked that they were an ancient klan from thousands of years ago and we would eventually see them mix it up with the traditional Klingons. Basically how they treated the Romulans in Picard as you said and a mixture of the two. That would’ve been a much better idea. But once we were told these were supposed to be the same Klingons as before then it lost people.
As far as Tyler my answer to that is just don’t do it at all because it was already completely ridiculous how it was done anyway.
They went halfway back to the original design by giving them long hair as part of their appeasement of people that hated the first season.
That was a true first misstep, a betrayal of the worldbuilding they were laying out. Saying that they cut their hair during time of war was one of the most imbecilic things they ever came up with.
TNG and DS9 both showed them at war and in neither instance did they do such a thing because it wasn’t a thing.
Of course Klingons like Worf in Picard, Prodigy and Lower Decks should look like they did in TMP, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT before the Augment virus infected them. Those series and cartoons take place after they were cured sometime between the end of TOS and TMP.
SNW shows that version to keep fanboys happy, not because it makes sense.
Again, it’s the very betrayal of canon people accused DIS of committing because it showed holograms on Starships.
To be true to canon, Klingons on SNW should be played by white actors in blackface and Fu Manchu makeup as was done in TOS and ENT.
If I could, I’d post a picture of the three Klingons from TOS that appeared on DS9 that shows both versions of the makeup they wore on the two series.
Clearly it shows that at some point something was done to restore their original appearance. The idea that that something included what we saw in DIS is not that far-fetched. It’s a process getting from one point to the other. Klingons aren’t scientists or prone to asking others for help (specially since they are not part of the Federation), so it makes sense that it would have taken them a long time to fix themselves, and a lot of trial and error.
If given the choice between the stated fix from DIS season two that Klingons cut their hair during time of war OR having Phlox show up as part of a story arc showing that he is STILL working to cure the Klingons from the effect of the Augment virus, I’d have chosen the latter.
Again the problem with your argument is that you are bringing up something that was NEVER mentioned or implied on the show itself. There wasn’t even an offhand reference about the Augment virus JUST like there wasn’t any references about the Klingons shaving their heads for war time because neither one had to do with how they looked. They simply looked like that because Fuller wanted to change them up. Period.
And I already said IF there was some explanation why they looked different then OK I think people would’ve accepted that. You’re doing a better job then they ever did lol.
The fact is they had fifteen episodes to go into explanation but didn’t. And no one should be expected to remember the Klingon augment virus from a show that had already ended 12 years ago.
Because once again that was never part of their backstory. These were simply the new Klingons and why it bothered people.
The series was not given a chance to get to an explanation. One was not germane to the plot of season one, but could have been explored in season two.
C’mon man. ‘This is a show that the writers and producers spent countless interviews talking up the show and Klingons before the first episode aired. And they had plenty of time SINCE to talk about it.
It was never mentioned anywhere before or after. If they can suddenly tell us WHY Klingons shaved their heads after the fact, then I’m pretty sure they could highlight that tidbit too..
I get it, you really like the show and feel people dump on it too much. I understand. I have done quite of bit of dumping on it too lol. Yes, guilty. So It’s nothing wrong to defend the decisions you think people are being unfair or extreme about. That’s why message boards exist.
But you have to also just admit the obvious as well. For the record they didn’t need an explanation at all, it’s all fiction and they can present the show however they wanted. But they knew the Klingons just wasn’t working with most fans. They rolled the dice, it just wasn’t something a lot of people liked. But they had PLENTY of time to use that as a reason even if it wasn’t presented on the show itself.
Now I get it worked for you and other people as well and that’s of course great. But it’s all a business. Subs were probably dropping for a service few people barely watched or cared about and they heard the complaints the show didn’t feel Star Trek enough. And probably why we saw bigger changes in season 2, many I liked personally.
But I think if Discovery had to do it all over again there would be many things they do differently today.
But it was the first Trek show out of the gate in the modern era and they were trying to shake things up. Unfortunately they have a very devoted but also nostalgic fanbase who wanted something more comfort food and familiar. Maybe even a bit bland…hence SNW. 😉
No, I wasn’t even thinking of the new Klingon look. That doesn’t bother me much, although I think “improvement” is very much a matter of opinion. The TOS Klingons really need to be updated from the cheap Fu Manchu look of TOS to the movie era, but I don’t think they really needed to change again for Discovery, that just smelled of “we can, so we did” at the revolving door producer’s office. Michael Dorn’s look in Picard proves that the Berman-era look works just fine on 2020s TV.
I was thinking of starting the saga with a mutiny, killing off their most prominent actress and most interesting character in Episode 2 and then within half a season jumping into the Mirror Universe, where they kill off probably the second most interesting character (Lorca.) I get it, this show is supposed to be Star Trek: Burnham and not an ensemble show. But the problem with Star Trek: Burnham is that it got old really fast. So presto, the killed-off Georgiou is back! That gave Burnham someone to play off, and every time the two of them were on screen, I’d think “if they’d never killed off Prime Georgiou, this is what Discovery could have been: a traditional Trek show with Captain Georgiou and First Officer Burnham. And it would have been better.”
Burnham being Spock’s adoptive sister wasn’t the show’s best idea, but it didn’t ruin the show for me, either. It is just kinda there. Not much really came of that, in the end, did it? They even ignored the opportunity for Peck to play Mirror Spock a few episodes ago.
Dorn’s look works great in post TMP Trek, not in post ENT/pre TOS Trek, which is when the first season of DIS took place.
But they didn’t bring back Georgiou. The Emperor is not the same character as the captain. They’re variants of the same person from two alternate realities but that doesn’t make them the same person.
While I don’t love the look of the Klingons in Discovery (or Into Darkness, for that matter), I will say I thought their look was feeling a little dated even by the time of DS9. With Apocalypse Rising, once we had the crew in makeup and costume and then all the other Klingons, I started to think maybe they could do something to freshen up what at that point was already a nearly 20-year old design. At least the wigs and costumes could change.
Sadly agreed. I think in terms of fan reception the show has been a misfire for most of it’s run because it just felt too different and what was given just wasn’t very good on top of it.
This season the reception is better than last season for sure but it’s still not a home run either. There is still just as many complaints about it from others but overall at least feels more satisfying.
But I think Discovery will be an enigma for a long time. It can’t be denied it help spur the modern Star Trek era we have today being the first, but oddly enough most of the shows seem to have the opposite tone, feel and style what Discovery did. Now maybe a lot of that was just to have the shows feel different from one another which is a positive. But it’s very odd Discovery has been basically been ignored by the other shows minus SNW. And that show feels like a completely different show from Discovery as well.
There was a large portion of the fan base decrying that it was a prequel, sure.. But it’s a big assumption that changing the setting is what has affected the quality. The show gained a new showrunner and a different focus, one that had nothing to do with the new setting and felt very much like what she wanted to do, not what fans were demanding en mass. It’s her show, and she was exercising a good amount of creative freedom, I’d say.
I don’t really see much harm in the other overt changes like giving the Klingons a more familiar look or toning down the violence. I’d have to react to a list of anything else changed because of fan feedback. The rest just feels like a showrunner taking ownership.
That familiar look went against canon, though, which is what people complained DIS was doing when it changed the Klingons from looking like white guys in blackface and Fu Manchu makeup like they were portrayed in TOS.
I do think Paradise improved the series once she took over, and have no problem with the change of setting (I compare it to Voyager getting lost in space while DIS was lost in time), but, at the same time, it should not have gotten to that point.
That is not the direction the series should have gone in.
SNW is doing what DIS was intended to do, but because it has Spock, Kirk, Uhura, Pike, and Scotty and the Klingons look like they did in The Motion Picture instead of how they did in TOS and Enterprise people suddenly have no problem with it.
Klingons aside, SNW is as guilty of the same things people hated about the first season of DIS, but, for some reason, people turn a blind eye to it now.
I don’t know what to tell you. I only was hung up on the Klingons because the look wasn’t all that interesting to me and it interfered with every actors’ enunciation. Ever since TMP updated the Klingons and TNG updated the Romulans I haven’t cared about these incongruities. I love that Trials and Tribbleations and Enterprise leaned in and replicated the old look/explained continuity details, but I also appreciate a beautiful set in 2024.
What’s more important is what the showrunner does, and nothing apart from setting the show in the 32nd century seems to have been a direct influence of fandom on Michelle Paradise’s MO, and you say you prefer the show under her stewardship, so I’m not sure this particular argument about contonuity details affects things if we discuss issues with the show in seasons 3-5. We’re not speculating on a show led by Paradise that is still set in the 23rd century.
Agreed!
And it’s so weird hearing this bizarre argument that Paradise is just doing what fans were begging for when it feels like the complete opposite. Yes a lot of the changes were made to the show as a whole due to people complaining about it but all of that happened before she even took over and it wasn’t her idea to move the show to the 32nd century, it was Kurtzman’s. She said in interviews when she joined the show she knew the show was already going that direction.
Her stamp on it has been mostly negative when you look at third season on because she applies a more melodramatic and soap opera tone that just feels over done.
They have done less of it this season but still obviously there.
But season 3 and 4 also just felt like bore fests after the half way mark. The pacing was awful because it was clear there just wasn’t enough story to keep the seasons compelling enough. That’s one of the biggest positives about season 5, because it was shorter lol.
She has always put in these very grand ideas which is great but the execution of them has just been poor IMO.
And there are obviously people who vibe with her approach. I do think the quest theme and relative stability during production and where she’s positioned the characters has calmed the waters in season 5.
But if I were to criticize the melodrama or characters stopping everything to talk about self-care, getting in touch with their emotions, or their relationships (like in the middle of a time-sensitive heist onboard a Breen dreadnaught for example), that’s nothing to do with anything they did to placate the fans who were making a ruckus in season 1.
Anyone know how long this episode will be?
With everything they need to wrap up I would have assumed a 2 hr finale but I think it will be 1 as usual.
I have not seen any announcements that it is an extra-length episode.
It seems the extra stuff they filmed was about fifteen minutes. So maybe a bit over an hour total.
I just looked at the finale’s time slot for CTV Sci-Fi channel and they have it listed as a two hour episode (with commercials). So for P+ I assume it will be close to 90 mins. I think that may be the longest of the NuTrek episodes to date.
I don’t want the game to end.
Until I watched last week’s episode, I’d only watched one other episode this season (the one where the Trill scientist takes over Culber).
I’ve enjoyed what I’ve seen — while there’s still some melodrama and a plot that could probably have been resolved in six episodes, the show seems to have finally found its stride.
I’ll try to catch up before Thursday. I’m surprised to say that I’d welcome another season of this show.
That looks good! I honestly hope this season ends well, and those two clips give me hope.
Yeah me too!
No smiling koala so far…
It’s over, finally :)
It’s been a long road…
I think this season has probably been the most popular overall for a lot of the fanbase judging by online responses and truly hopes it goes out with a bang.
End predictions:
Discovery goes back in time to 24th century, crashes into Ent E. Worf escapes, (it wasn’t his fault).
Burnham goes back to the beginning of time, integrates her DNA into the The Chase thingy, she is responsible for all humanoid kind.
Riker appears, says ‘end program’
And then Burnham says “belay that order.” Riker is escorted off-screen.
It sounds like the holodeck has gone all trippy again. 😂
Moriarty will stop both of them lol
Wish Disco had found it’s legs sooner, because (with a couple very minor, obligatory nitpicks) this has been a largely terrific season of Trek.
Someone traded a bunch of Star Trek uniforms for K.I.T.T.???? Seriously?!
LOL that was a great segment of The Ready Room.
HAHA the best part was Wil totally freaking out!
I predict that at the center of the alien portal Burnham finds…a crying Kelpian child.
I actually predicted (which means it won’t come true) is that Burnham somehow reverses the Burn with the Progenitor tech.
LOL don’t even joke about that.
Or this becomes a sort of Deadpool thing and she ends up resolving every single canon issue, even incorporating the Kelvinverse.
But probably not. :-)
Note to the editors: the built-in pyrotechnics on these bridge sets are not meant to be seen in wide shots. Save that for the custom one-offs with debris.
Otherwise it just looks like a little heavy metal concert.
Can you imagine having something like that on Voyager or the original Enterprise. It just looks really silly to me.
The random sparks and flying rocks rarely made sense during space battles, but you could kinda go with the flow. They don’t often take me out of the moment like these wide shots of a hilarious ball of fire coming out not the same spot every time. That’s all on the editors – when it’s just coming into a close shot it’s effective.
“Time, space, and gravity” is a bit weird. The vast majority of *normal* space has no gravity at all.
What are you talking?
Every space has Gravity…. Or No space has Gravity.
Depends in how you look at it.
However, every tiny Bit If space is influenced by Gravity.
Zero G only means that it has no pull effect to us humans.
You coukd say, that space itself has no Gravity, but than the “majority” Thing majes No Sense.
I read it in the sense of “weightless.”
I have to admit that DSC is my least favorite Trek Show, but I remember feeling sad when the final episode of TNG, Voy, DS) and ENT aired. It was like saying goodbye to good friends.
Even behind the scenes, there’s just something about the Captain’s Chair. I remember working at Paramount when First Contact was filming. I got to visit the sets with Penny Juday and one of the sets we went on was the bridge. (Which, of course, nobody outside of production had seen yet…) I was blown away by the details on it, including the Starfleet Delta being embroidered on the seat backs. She asked if I wanted to sit in the Captain’s Chair, and I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. I kinda regret not sitting, but the fan in me just thought that it would somehow have been disrespectful to do so. I sat at Conn instead and looked back to the center which was still a pretty amazing thing to do.
I was so excited about this show when it premiered. I faithfully watched every ep of that first season. I eagerly gave CBSAA my money to support my franchise. And honestly, I really liked season 1. Yeah, it kinda flew off the rails towards the end, and it never lived up to its potential, but it was innovative and new Star Trek that at least had a lot going for it.
I couldn’t make it more than 3 episodes into season 2. I found so much of it so irritating, and I simply didn’t have enough time to dedicate to it. In reading all the reviews and fan discourse online, it seemed like I was never missing out, and I always reflect positively that I didn’t waste my time on a Star Trek that I simply was never going to fully enjoy.
Here we are at the end and it’s strange to know I have hardly watched any of this new era of my favorite show. I’ve seen Picard S1 and 3, LD S1, a few eps of SNW, and that’s it. I prefer rewatching the same eps of TOS. It’s sad to feel so disconnected to the new shows, but I’m glad they exist at any rate. Goodbye Disco – I can’t say you had a great run, but you did a lot for a lot of people and that’s what counts, I guess.
This breaks my heart a bit but you tried. I just know what a big fan you are and it’s never great to feel so disappointed in something. But it’s also OK to just say something isn’t for you and just move on
I wish I had that willpower lol. Hopefully there will be other shows that gets you excited again.