After the Strange New Worlds section of the big Trek panel at SDCC last month, executive producers and showrunners Akiva Goldsman and Henry Alonso Myers along with cast members Ethan Peck (Spock) and Rebecca Romijn (Una/Number One) offered more insight into what we can expect in the upcoming third season. They also discussed early work on the fourth season and longer term plans for the show.
Spreading their wings in season 3… including murder mystery
The second season of Strange New Worlds included a musical episode and an crossover with the Lower Decks animated series. And according to to the showrunners, they keep pushing the boundaries in season 3. Speaking to Variety, Goldsman said the show has more genres to conquer:
Akiva Goldsman: We have a bunch of ideas for the kinds of genres Star Trek can accommodate, and we continue to sort of try to stretch those boundaries. So, as you saw [in the SDCC clip], a lot of people become Vulcans. We are trying to, dare I say, go where we have not gone before when it comes to genre. So besides the tried and true, which is some sci fi adventure, and certainly our attempt to remember the cadence of at least regularly, there must be a moral to the story, we are spreading our wings.
Romijn backed him up:
Rebecca Romijn: I feel like every episode is such a surprise to us. And [the showrunners] are so good at playing with genre that we never see it coming. So we didn’t think we could outdo season 2 with some of the things that we pulled in season 2, and season 3 we’re equally proud of. And we did some things.
With IGN, Myers confirmed they aren’t doing another musical (yet), but he teased they are still getting crazy:
Henry Alonso Myers: I can’t promise we aren’t going to revisit [“Subspace Rhapsody”] some day, but we’re going to hold off a little bit before we come back to it. If you come back for a second episode of something, you really want to make it special and different and bigger and crazier. We’re special and different and bigger and crazier in our next season in a lot of other ways.
Earlier this year Jonathan Frakes revealed he directed a “Hollywood murder mystery” for season 3. Speaking to Collider the EPs confirmed this would be the fourth episode of the season as they expanded on what to expect:
Henry Alonso Myers: It’s a very unique version of Kirk, one that we have not seen on the show before. And all of our actors get to do things that we’ve never seen them do.
Akiva Goldsman: It’s a Hollywood murder mystery… As always we are striving to create a different genre within ours. So there’s a reason for it. It’s not somebody having a dream… Because of that, our actors get to do things that they haven’t gotten to do previously… We do keep trying to push, because we were so delighted ourselves with the musical episode that we kind of were like, “Oh, fuck, what are we going to do now?”
Henry Alonso Myers: It’s a genuine Star Trek episode. No one who knows and is familiar with Star Trek will say, “Oh, that doesn’t feel like a normal episode.” They will be like, “Oh, I get it, yep, yep, yep.” But it will surprise them.
Myers also hyped it as a “spectacular episode” while Romijn revealed how she (and Frakes) felt about it:
Rebecca Romijn: It was really special experience. When we wrapped that episode [Jonathan Frakes] and I were on the same flight going home that weekend, which was delayed so I got to listen to him talk about it for three hours, how it was his favorite hour of television that he’s ever directed.
Henry Alonso Myers, Ethan Peck, Rebecca Romijn and Akiva Goldsman at Paramount+ Star Trek Menagerie Booth San Diego Comic-Con 2024 (Paramount+)
A new Una, a younger Scotty, a different Korby
During the various interviews where were some teases about what to expect for some of the characters in season 3. Rebecca and Henry talked to IGN about how things are different for her character in season 3:
Rebecca Romijn: She’s been shrouded in shame with the secret of being a secret Illyrian and breaking the rules of Starfleet. Now that she gets rid of that shame, it’s a lighter version of her. So you’re going to have a little more fun with her.
Henry Alonso Myers: I would also say that we see a side of her that we have not seen before this season. We see a completely different side of her that Rebecca gets to play, which I am excited for people to see.
During the panel it was revealed that Martin Quinn’s Scotty (introduced in the season 2 finale) has joined as a series regular. Speaking to ScreenRant, Myers talked about how this engineer is different than the Montgomery Scott we are familiar with from Star Trek: The Original Series:
Henry Alonso Myers: This is a Scotty you have not seen before. He isn’t the Scotty who he becomes in The Original Series, yet. He’s younger. He’s going through a lot. He is someone to experience. It’s been really fun to bring him into the ship. It’s been really fun to see him interact with our characters and kind of learn who he is going to be, but not who he is, yet.
Ethan Peck previewed how Spock and Scotty work together (via Variety):
Ethan Peck: He shares a load of science jargon. So that’s very appreciated from my end. And I think there’s a lot of fun things to do between Spock and Scotty… [Martin Quinn] brings such a great energy to the cast
One of the big reveals for the SDCC panel was how after being teased in season 2, the character of Dr. Roger Korby will have a recurring role in season 3, played by Irish actor Cillian O’Sullivan. TOS lore establishes how Korby will eventually become engaged to Christine Chapel, later running into some grave trouble on an alien planet. Speaking to Variety and IGN, Goldsman emphasized how on SNW, we get to see a different side to this character:
Akiva Goldsman: Like so many of our characters, they have many great days before their less great days. Our take on Roger Korby is not quite what you would expect.
Akiva Goldsman: What’s fun about having TOS in front of us is it allows us to do inductive storytelling. We can see where somebody ended up and then try to imagine how they got there. So all we can say is that the Roger Korby you see on Strange New Worlds is going to travel a long path before he gets to be the Roger Korby that you see The Original Series.
With IGN, Myers talked a bit about the Korby/Chapel dynamic:
Henry Alonso Myers: Try to imagine this from the perspective of Chapel. She’s smart, she’s talented, she probably makes smart and interesting decisions in her life. What’s the kind of person that she would be drawn to? Who would she want to learn something from?… That is something to look forward to dealing with as well.
The introduction of Korby creates a bit of a love triangle situation with Spock. Ethan Peck talked to ScreenRant about how that is going to work out:
Ethan Peck: It’s going be pretty interesting. And Killian O’Sullivan is terrific. He and I as actors have great chemistry. So I’m very excited for people to see that.
Speaking of Spock, he is getting a cool new science lab set (with built into pool beneath the floor) for season 3. Peck didn’t have any spoilers to share about the new set when asked by Variety, but Henry teased:
Henry Alonso Myers: I think it’s safe to say that you will see some things in the pool [in season 3].
Spock’s new lab for season 3 (Paramount+)
Season 4 planned out, but don’t expect more than 10 episodes
Earlier this year Paramount picked up the series for a fourth season, which will go into production in early 2025. Goldsman gave Collider a status update:
Akiva Goldsman: We’re in the [writers’] room. We’re breaking. We’re talking. We have the cards with the episodes, we know what the 10 episodes are going to be about. The network does it yet, but they will soon.
They didn’t offer any details but when the group was asked if they had any dream pitches for the show, Myers revealed his dream is coming true in season 4:
Henry Alonso Myers: What I really want to do I can’t talk about right now, but it will come in season 4… But there are lots of surprises in season 3 we can look forward to.
This may not be related but when asked by ScreenRant about Spock’s half-brother Sybok, Akiva noted that Myers “desperately wants” to feature the character on the show, with Henry confirming, “I do want him to be in the show, very much.”
If you were hoping they would expand beyond the 10-episode format, you can forget that wish. When ScreenRant noted many fans hoped for more episodes, Goldsman pointed to Paramount being the limiting factor:
Akiva Goldsman: No [we aren’t doing more than 10 episodes], I mean not so far, and we tried, in fairness. We too have that sense and it is most practically represented by the number of cards that are episode cards we get at the beginning of each season. It’s sort of like a Friends analogy, “Let’s do ‘The One Where…’, Let’s do ‘The One Where…’, Let’s do ‘The One Where…’” And we always have more cards than 10 by the end. So, [Discovery] was 13 episodes and we sort of batted our eyes and said, “give us more,” and they said, “No, you can have less.” And we said, “No, ten is good.”
Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck check out the Paramount+ Star Trek Menagerie Booth at San Diego Comic-Con 2024 (Paramount+)
Ready to run into TOS
Of course, Strange New Worlds is a prequel to Star Trek: The Original Series, featuring the same ship and many of the same characters. As of now there is not set limit on how many seasons the show will run. The showrunners talked to Collider about how they approach each new season:
Henry Alonso Myers: Episode by episode and season by season and really try to treat everything like, “If this was our last episode, what would it be?” We want to do the best version of everything. If this was all we got to do, what are the cool things that we will be really upset that we never got to do? We look at every season like that.
Akiva Goldsman: Left to our own devices, which really means if Paramount will, we’ll keep going into the TOS era. And we know how. That’s the hope, but as Henry said, nothing is assured. So we come from a conservative place with great aspirations.
When asked by Variety if we should expect other major characters to show up, notably Sulu and Dr. McCoy, the showrunners didn’t directly answer the question, saying:
Henry Alonso Myers: It’s probably worth mentioning that these characters are not the people that they will become when we get to The Original Series. They are still younger. They are going through things. They have a lot of life and lessons to go through. They have some growth to do so you don’t see them exactly the way that you would see them later on. And that’s important for us to give them something to play.
Akiva Goldsman: We will continue on for as long as Paramount lets us. We will drive right into The Original Series.
Pike’s hair in season 3 clip explained
Paramount+ released a clip at Comic-Con from episode 8 of season 3, where several members of the crew get turned into Vulcans. This has a particular impact on Pike’s hair, which Myers explained to Collider:
Henry Alonso Myers: That was 100% Anson. We were talking about what different types of hair to do, and he said, I had this one idea. And I was like, “Just try it.” And he did it and Akiva and I looked at it, we were like, “That’s it, 100% don’t bother trying anything else we have to do this.”
ICYMI, here is the clip again…
Paramount+ has not yet set a date for season 3 beyond saying it is coming in 2025. They have also already ordered a fourth season, which is expected to start production in the spring of 2025.
Keep up with news about the Star Trek Universe at TrekMovie.com.
I worry that they are getting caught up in the gimmick of having each episode be a different genre that they’ve forgotten that each episode should be about visiting a different alien world.
No Star Trek series has had every episode being about visiting a planet.
That said, in the first two seasons they’ve visited these societies:
Kiley 279: planet at a similar stage of development as Earth in the 2020s, at a similar crossroads.
Persephone System: a planet at an early stage of development suffering from a drought.
Comet C/2260-Quentin: a comet known as the last of the Arbiters of Life, worshipped by a spacefaring people called the Shepherds.
Hetamit IX: former Illyrian colony, abandoned due to climate change.
Finibus III: a Federation colony in need of supplies, that was attacked by the Gorn.
Majalis: a planet in which the paradise on the surface is upheld by sacrificing the life of a child on a regular basis.
Ankeshtan K’til Retreat: a planet with a Vulcan criminal rehabilitation center.
Jonisian Nebula: a nebula in which a non-corporeal species imposes the personalities from M’Benga’s book The Elysian Kingdom onto the crew, they take Rukiya, who grows from childhood to adulthood instantly, then they take her under their wing.
Valeo Beta V: ice planet onto which the USS Peregrine crashed. The temperatures are fatal to the Gorn, and Hemmer sacrificed himself there.
Cajitar IV: a planet that switched from UFP to Klingon territory on a regular cycle since the war, and hid a Starfleet vessel being prepared for a false flag.
Illyria: Una’s homeworld, which had districts for Augments and non-genetically modified people, and a culture based on that segregation.
Planet in the Vaultera Nebula: with air only suitable for Augments.
Rigel VII: Despite the visions from “The Cage,” we never actually visited this world before. All we knew before was that there was a castle with guards. In this series, we learned there’s a culture based on the loss of memories from radiation, and the way Yeoman Nguyen uses that to control the Kalarans.
Kerkhovian moon/neighboring interdimensional space: home to the Kerkhovians, a bureaucratic people who “fix” intruders and immediately send them on their way.
Bannon’s Nebula: a nebula in which the inhabitants require the deuterium stored there and communicate with others using imagery from the recipient’s own memories.
Krulmuth-B: site of the Krulmuth-B portal.
Setlik II: though not visited onscreen, it was the home to a colony near the Cardassian border that grows tritriticale.
J’gal: Federation colony attacked during the Klingon War.
Subspace rift: a pocket in space that operates by the rules of musicals.
Parnassus Beta: Federation colony designed to look like the American midwest.
This series is literally called Strange New Worlds…
While some of these storylines have produced meaningful plot driven moments others have been left unfinished. Strange New Worlds, in particular, has spent a lot of time developing the characters on the show rather than some of the alien worlds. There has been exceptions. The planet Majalis was one of the shows that gave the aliens the most to do and the audience the most to wonder about. Others not so much. I like SNW too but it wouldn’t hurt to focus on more aliens and less gimmicks. Like the Gorn, for example. They have hinted at giving them more depth at the end of season 2 and I hope we see that going forward. Otherwise, they will stay firmly in the gimmick routine.
Less focus too on how to move into TOS and more focus on what THIS SHOW brings to the franchise. I feel every interview is always emphasizing the TOS connections. I don’t know if it’s company mandated talking points, the person conducting the interview or just the personal choices of the creative staff. I know these characters exist in the show but I wish they would talk about other topics.
The producers are trying to keep working after SNW finishes.
Yes, and they’ve been visiting Strange New Worlds. What’s your point. Don’t tell the showrunners what their show is about.
I just wish it was about *something*…I’m just not seeing the early years TOS messages and metaphors that made Star Trek more than Lost in Space
If that’s the case, you aren’t actually watching the show.
While I do love SNW, gatekeeping is not cool.
I wouldn’t characterize my comment as gatekeeping, personally. Whether one likes the show or not, it’s an objective fact that at least half of the show’s episodes have attempted to replicate TOSian messages/metaphors. Whether they succeeded or not is very much up for debate, though.
Appreciate you gatekeeping my comment, though.
You get to strange new worlds as you voyage and as you voyage you also see all kind of other strange new phenomenon and things that deserve attention. Don’t be so literal. There is quite clearly a reason that computer fan writers aren’t writing tv shows!
And none of those planets were strange or offered anything new about an alien world.
Amen, Michael… Amen!
Thanks.
Completely agree, Michael. I’m losing interest with all the gimmicks and parody of the franchise that is happening.
As someone who doesn’t mind gimmicky episodes, I have to agree as well. Most fans seem fine with the idea in general but not to the point it takes away what the show is supposed to be about, actually exploring strange new worlds. The gimmick thing has been a part of all the classic shows of course but when you have 20+ episodes every year no one expects every episode to be beaming to a new planet and chaos begins and so you can do something like Bashir pretending to be James Bond in the holodeck because you have the space to do it.
But when you only have 10 episodes (and they just made it clear it will only be 10) then don’t lose sight of what the show should be focused on.
All that said I am intrigued with the Hollywood mystery episode and more so than I was with the musical idea.
The thing is the only show that was really about visiting Strange New Worlds was TOS. TNG was more about the Enterprise going on diplomatic missions and policing the galaxy than exploring it. DS9 was…. DUH. Voyager did explore SNW in the beginning by their very nature but quickly ended that when the Borg came around. ENT did some exporing on its own as well but it was always THE gimmic show of it’s time. First with the cold war, then the Xindi, then revisiting themes from TOS.
Now we have SNW and while it is supposed to be a failthful love letter to TOS that’s not really what it is turning out to be Like DS9 and ENT this is quickly becoming a war series with the Gorn rather than actually exploring. The big difference this time around is we have shortened 10 ep seasons which means TPTB can only show us so much and clearly they are choosing to stick to the ongoing story line of seasons rather than the ep of the week type show this was initially supposed to be. Which, hey, thats fine so long as it is respectful to the franchise and of course entertaining. I liked S1 WAY more than S2. We’ll see with S3.
I expected “Strange New Worlds” to explore, well, strange new worlds not because it was a love letter to the original, but because they named the bleeding show “Strange New Worlds.”
Silly me.
Not every episode of a show has to specifically adhere to the title. It’s like the same complaint about “moving forward,” that it has to mean taking place further in the future. Stop being so literal.
As pointed out already, the show has visited many strange new worlds. If you don’t like the show, just say so.
In STAR TREK VI, there are no undiscovered countries.
Oh, but there are… there are. Gorkon says in his toast, “To the undiscovered country: the future.”
A future, as Kirk says, following the assassination attempt on the Federation President, “It’s about the future, Madame Chancellor. Some people think the future means the end of history. Well, we haven’t run out of history quite yet. Your father called the future – “the undiscovered country”.
So, no, there are no tangible undiscovered countries, but there are figurative ones.
Guess I should dial back my distaste for SNW… the “Strange New Worlds” in the title COULD refer to the strange new chances the series takes.
Nah, even I think that explanation’s horse crap.
There are plenty of deaths in TUC.
It’s a phrase from the original voiceover. That’s why they used it.
I don’t know if I would call SNW ‘faithful’ to TOS either. They are on the original Enterprise and use some of the characters but other than that it doesn’t really feel like TOS that much. Certainly more than Discovery. But Prodigy feels closer to TOS than Discovery did lol.
I guess what I mean is while I like SNW I don’t feel like I’m watching TOS because the tone, look and style just feels night and day to me. But I guess it would be the closes?
Just my opinion of course.
I also fail to understand everyone’s obsession with being faithful to TOS — and that goes for the showrunners, too.
I don’t care about anything being faithful to anything else. Give me a good show set in the Star Trek universe, that’s all I ask. So far, SNW is really the only new Trek show that has consistently delivered that, week after week.
I think Star Trek should be faithful to Star Trek. Parts of DIS and PIC and most of the upcoming Section 31 movie (based on its precursors and the looks of it so far) fail that test.
For me, luckily (?), SNW, LDS, and PRO have all been good shows and faithful Trek shows.
It’s not necessary that they have to be but thats what they were billed as when they forst came out. No ongoing story, new, different adventure week after week, and as Sybok points out, the show is literally called “Strange New Worlds” Clearly TPTB set a certain expectation for this show, whether they meant to or not.
Now again I am not saying I think it is a bad show. I enjoy it. I just don’t consider it the same timeline as TOS.
I felt like, Gorn aside, SNW season 1 was actually pretty faithful to TOS , just my OP as well. Season 2 went way in the other direction. Not necessarily in a bad way mind you but it feels less and less like a precursor to TOS as it progresses.
I think you are largely misrepresenting SNW (and I can’t agree on much of your takes on the earlier shows).
First, just because SNW is called “strange new worlds” doesn’t mean the show was, is, or ever should have been literally about visiting/learning about strange, alien worlds. “Strange new worlds” is often used figuratively/metaphorically to reference different “worlds” as in different points of view, different characters, different situations. That is what SNW, and Star Trek in general, has really always been about. Some series take it more literally in exploring weird planets, others take it more metaphorically and explore characters or points of view. I personally see SNW as focusing on characters and genres. The character focus is a heavy one due to its prequel nature and is pursued within the narrative. Genres are explored as a “fun” approach for the writers/actors/producers and, hopefully, enhances the mood or storytelling of the individual episodes for the viewers (YMMV).
Second, SNW isn’t becoming a war story focused on the Gorn. The Gorn are the reoccurring bad guys—most Trek series try to or do find an ongoing adversary—but they aren’t the driving force for the overall narrative. SNW is still an episodic show, with character continuity. The Gorn do also play into the character focus, being a major part of La’an’s backstory—so that is a two-for-one deal. The Gorn may feel like they are punching above their weight because there are only 10 episodes a season, but they have only been the focus in 3 episodes (so far), and in Memento Mori they could have been any alien.
I personally liked season 1 a little better (probably because it was so new and a refreshing break from DIS and PIC), but I think the overall quality of episodes in season 2 was better (it didn’t have a clunker like “The Elysian Kingdom” for one).
Why shouldn’t the tital of the show represent what the show is about? TNG was literally about the next generation of Star Trek. DS9 was about space station DS9. Voyager was about not only the starship Voyager but the “voyage” back to the alpha quadrant. Enterprise… Enterprise… In fact when Enterpise first came out the title meant everything because it was the first (and only) show where they tried to drop “Star Trek” from the title.
And I am not saying SNW is 100% a war show now like DS9 was. Far from it, But there was a lot more focus on the Gorn in S2 than there was in S1 and I suspect S3 will be even more of the same. I mean the show left on a cliffhanger in battle with the Gorn.
I am saying the show title does reflect what the show is about, but it doesn’t have to be only a literal interpretation. SNW can be about metaphorical new worlds as well as actual new worlds. Criticizing it because it doesn’t visit enough literal new worlds is missing a lot of what Trek does/is.
But the Gorn only appear once in S2. I would call that less of a focus than in S1.
DS9 discovered a whole new part of the galaxy via the wormhole and visited many strange worlds despite the war back home.
Or just about something more than the superficial trappings of genre. These guys really just don’t get Star Trek, at all.
They do, but for this show they chose to go with the gimmick of switching genres every episode.
I think Trek has often switched genres. It was just less explicitly stated before. But it was certainly done before.
Different shows approached it harder than others, and the individual episodes succeeded or failed on their own. TOS had comedy episodes like “The Trouble with Tribbles.” TNG did a character study with “Data’s Day” and a western with “A Fistful of Datas.” DS9 did heavy war stories with “Siege of AR-558” or “It’s Only a Paper Moon”, a heist movie with “Bada Bing Bada Bang”, and an underdog sports movie with “Take Me Out to the Holodeck”. VOY did a horror movie with “The Thaw” and a (bad) murder mystery with “Ex Post Facto.”
The current era of Trek (re: Kurtzman) does seem to be focusing on providing the widest, most different types of Trek shows, and explicitly hyping the “genre” of episodes of SNW plays into that. But other than the musical episode of season 2 (which, outside of exploring the feelings of the main characters via a musical format, doesn’t seem to have a larger point within Trek and thus is the most “gimmicky”*), would anything SNW is doing feel any different than what TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY did in the past?
*To explore further why this felt particularly gimmicky: there aren’t any overriding story or character reasons for this episode to be a musical. I could see a different (better?) version of this episode being done where one of our characters (maybe Una or Uhura or La’an since they were each going through personal crises this season) watches a musical to try to feel better, then some alien influence gins up a musical world for them in an attempt to help or communicate. I think we could have easily seen that kind of thing in a TOS episode or maybe an early episode of TNG. DS9 could easily have done a bad version of it in seasons 1 or 2 or a great version in seasons 4-7.
It seems to me that many FANS don’t really get Star Trek. It’s a TV show, and many viewers don’t get that.
No, I think people are aware that its a TV show but they are feeling that it used to be a more meaningful TV show back in the day. Now you could say that no TV show could ever be meaningful because its just entertainment but for some people it can be more than an entertainment, it can be a way to get out of the daily grind of life and escapism and it can deliver a meaningful message while doing it. They just don’t see this in SNW and consider it to be a bit too much based on “gimmicks”. I see their point as well and I see your point too. There is no one way or the other here. As long as we are respectful I believe both points of view have merit.
You hit the nail in the head.
There are plenty of people who ‘get’ Star Trek but simply cannot execute it on any reasonably entertaining level.
Three words for all of you: Puppets…on ice.
People doubt me now but I can’t shake this feeling. Puppet Pike skating his way to save puppet Una before getting eaten by the puppet space monster is something I think Kurtzman has had in his head for years and probably been begging to see it come to reality.
And now finally the technology has caught up. You laugh now but we we’re getting an episode where people turn into Vulcans.
Puppet Angel…
I would be fine with that if it was a good episode! Really dig the musical episode, which I’ve rewatched more than almost any other modern Trek episode (along with Those Old Scientists).
HAHAHA At this point that would not surprise me. Bring in John De Lance and make it happen :-P
Relax, it’s a TV show. Those alien worlds don’t really exist. Remember to vote.
Having just revisited Star Trek V over this past weekend I am really interested to see this show’s take on Sybok as well. The only thing tho is Kirk absolutely can not be there when it happens.
…funny, I just gave that another watch that last night. Would love to see a version with proper SFX – they really took me out of the story back in 1989, and still today. Have always loved the character interactions, though.
There’s a couple rear beauty shots of the Enterprise in that movie that I loved.
Ya that movie losing ILM really hurt it.
Thought the same myself.
Believe me TPTB of that movie do too!!!
Lets do the hasthtag releasetheshatnercut :) LOL . Honestly I did read about in the early 2000s Shatner wanted to a directors cut version of the film with better effects but Paramount wasn’t willing to give him money for the film.
I’m torn. While I wish Bill (he did say “Call me Bill”) had been afforded the chance to do his film right, there is no level of visual effects technology that can save that movie from a shitty script.
That’s the sad thing, the movie as filmed was not even the script. Apparently Harve Bennet and other Producers tore the hell out of the original script and Bill didn’t fight back because he felt like an untested director who TPTB thought didn’t know any better.
“The only thing tho is Kirk absolutely can not be there when it happens.”
Expect Kirk to totally be there lol. Remember when people were saying it’s NO WAY anyone can meet or know who T’Pring is when she showed up in the first episode? That lasted literally just 5 episodes and now everyone knows who T’Pring is. This is the problem when you are squeezing in canon characters waaaaaay too soon.
LOL ya I know. I guess after tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow this is an alt timeline anyways :P
Once you have Kirk literally doing a song and dance routine with Pike and hitting on a Khan descendant, it really doesn’t matter what else they do at this point. I’m literally waiting for the episode where he and T’Pring goes out on a date as a way for T’Pring to make Spock jealous.
This is where we come to after just 20 episodes.
I really like Christina Chong but I wish she was playing any other character than a Khan decendant. Like the Gorn, there is just no good reason to have introduced that aspect. It did nothing for the story just like the evil lizard bad guys of SNW being “the Gorn” doesn’t add to the story in any way. It’s pretty much breaking canon just for the sake of breaking canon. At least when Enterprise did it they tried the best they could to adhere to everything and only broke rules when needed for their story.
Both La’an and the Gorn are too much of a distraction. I like Chong too and it’s nice to see her carry on the really uptight security officer trope lol but there was zero reason for her to be a Khan descendant outside of cheap fan service of the highest order. It literally feels like an excuse for the writers to bring up Khan’s name in an episode, that’s it.
I will never get the fascination this new group has with Khan. How did we manage to go 700 episodes and 10 movies and his name only uttered 3 times outside his actual appearances. The fact I know this is sad lol but still.
Now we can’t go more than a few episodes without some mention of Khan or the eugenics war somewhere. They even put him in another movie to disastrous effects. Just move on already.
As for Enterprise, it’s funny seeing how much that show got beat up because fans accused it of contradicting canon and then you look at what Discovery and SNW is doing makes that show almost feel like a historical documentary lol.
Yeah maybe introducing the Ferengi so soon on that show felt off base, but they didn’t decide to make them the main enemy of the series either who popped up every season like they are doing with the Gorn.
I remember Khan’s name being brought up ever since Shinzon in Nemesis was supposed to be the “greatest Trek vilian since Khan” and even after that failed miserably it seems like an idea every post Berman showrunner seems intent on chasing. The modern idea is that Khan is Trek’s Joker which is just not true. Joker is a character that keeps coming back bigger and badder because a) he is the antithesis of Batman and b) frankly Batman refuses to kill him off. Khan is not the opposite of Kirk and frankly I don’t think Kirk would have any issues with Khan dying. Khan only works in a very specific setting and every time they use him or his name they tarnish his legacy.
The three specific times Khan name was mentioned in the Berman era was in TNG, DS9 and ENT. And the DS9 and ENT episode dealt specifically with augments so it made sense.
But with modern Trek, it’s gotten out of hand. I actually forgot they wanted a Khan show (ugh) and that probably didn’t happen because they saw just how many fans hated the idea.That’s still suppose to be a podcast (which I’m a little more interested in that). But they are still shoving him down our throats. At least the live action shows. I can’t remember if LDS or PRO referenced him and it’s kind of shocking if LDS haven’t lol.
Hmm, I don’t remember TNG. I know DS9 was when Bashir was exposed and obv ENT was the augment eps. But ya those made sense given the context of the story. Here it just is there because *reasons*
Mariner was thirsting over Khan’s “thick thick chest” in one Season One episode. It’s sad that I knew this straight away. I watch LDS way too much.
Ironically, La’an is my favourite character in SNW but you are right- there is no need whatsoever for her to be a descendant of Khan. It adds absolutely nothing to her character and “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” is the producers and writers trying to justify their decision (and to shoehorn in Kirk for whatever reason). It just doesn’t work. In fact outside of one conversation with Una in Season One and the aforementioned Season Two episode, it’s barely addressed, which makes it even more obvious that the decision to tie her to a legacy character (oh god, I sound like one of THOSE fans) was done purely for pointless fan service.
Yeah, I’m sorry to say this but it does feel like they threy “Khan” in there just to have a name grab in the show to grab more viewers. I like La’an a lot too and I would love for her to have been there from the start just like she was but ya give her any other name. Or at the very least make it La’an Singh not La’an Noonien Sing. Like when I was born I didn’t automatically inherit my father’s middle and last name.
It’s precisely WHY I love this show so much: Its lack of biblical reverence for TOS continuity. Move on, geeks, it’s all the same timeline — just enjoy the show!
I’m really happy you are enjoying it. And I know based on this thread you wouldn’t know it but I actually enjoy it too lol. One item has really gave me a large head shake but believe it or not, I’m not against most of the things said in this article. I just can’t ignore the stuff I really hate lol.
But no offense, this argument irks me. I don’t think anyone here has a problem if they said they weren’t going to follow TOS and shake things up. I would be 100% for that in fact. What irks people like me is when you try to have it both ways and they keep doing this.
I worked in PR and marketing for years. I have seen this double speak more times than I can count. One hand they keep pushing on the notion that this is strictly following the road TOS followed but then just hand wave all the things that directly contradicts it. One or two things, sure. And we just chalk some of these things to retcons. But when nearly every TOS character has done something that contradicts who or what they did on that show versus then one, then you’re basically just rewriting the show.
And Goldsman has become a master at this. It’s like he WANTS the show to be free of TOS in many ways, which again, fine just SAY that and move on. But same time keeps sticking to the same talking points this is in fact a direct prequel to TOS when nearly nothing in fact aligns with TOS. It’s just bizarre.
But yes end of the day either you’re enjoying the show or not and I do think most people are, certainly casual fans. That we agree on.
“But when nearly every TOS character has done something that contradicts who or what they did on that show versus then one, then you’re basically just rewriting the show.”
I don’t think they have contradicted anything Uhura has said or done yet other than being a super linguist like Hoshi, but that’s more of a retcon, not a direct contradiction.
Oh wait she knows who both the Gorn and T’Pring are when she obviously didn’t know either in TOS. That’s definitely a contradiction.
Well I gave it a shot! 😁
Oh wait what about M’benga? I know he was only in two episodes (and I only seen one of them) but AFAIK he doesn’t really get contradicted. Sure I know he doesn’t have a daughter but it’s obviously easy to hand wave that and I’m assuming he never said he DIDN’T have a daughter before.
I know you didn’t say everyone though.
Its exactly that point that we are making. Writers and producers always complain that they hate adhering to canon because it hinders their creativity. If that was the case here then I would see your point. But it isn’t. You could have the EXACT same show without the use of “Khan” or “Gorn”. Nothing would need to change. So why even break canon if it isn’t getting you anything?
I never been a huge TOS fan so I’m not that bothered either. But same time fair is fair. Discovery got a lot of crap for saying it’s supposed to be canon to TOS but it really wasn’t (and I was one of the people who gave it crap but not for that alone, mostly because it sucked).
But if they keep saying SNW is supposed to be canon to TOS but it too really isn’t that much then they shouldn’t be too surprised people would also give it crap, right?
Maybe the best solution is stop pretending that it is and just do what you want? I’m pretty sure everyone watching now will still watch it. I certainly would and then maybe we can get a Borg episode too!
(Who are we kidding we’re probably getting one anyway lol)
Trek has been retconning huge elements of continuity since at least as far back as Voyager (or maybe TNG if you want to include the reference to Sarek’s son’s wedding). The big mystery of encountering the bizarre, dangerous, unstoppable Borg for the first time in “Q Who?” …Actually, Seven’s parents were on a research expedition about them, seemingly sponsored by the Federation, when she was like 10 years old. And the Federation rescued El Aurian survivors (including Guinan who would later work on the Ent-D) from a Borg attack about 70 years before that.
Trek has always been ok with breaking the spirit of the canon if not the letter of it. It will always continue as such.
ENT will encounter cloaking technology and the Ferengi decades before they should have been. SNW will meet the Gorn 5 or so years before Kirk narrates meeting a species the Metrons “call a Gorn.” It doesn’t mean SNW is less for it—SNW is just carrying on a proud Trek tradition of retconning.
THe borg thing did bother me but IMHO Enterprise fixed that. Starfleet knew about the Borg since the 22nd century they just didn’t know they were “The Borg”. Ditto with the Enterprise B and The Hansens. The B was just responding to a random distress call and the Hansens were taken and assimilated before they could ever report their findings to Starfleet.
Q didn’t necessarily inform Starfleet that being like the Borg exist but more to the point, they are on their way. Q didn’t just fling the Enterprise in the path of the Borg, he was warning humanity. They were always on their way ever since the 22nd century.
So I guess my point is that, yes, TPTB can break canon sometimes but later they do everything they can to make it make sense. This new generation of producers couldn’t give a fig. they just throw random stuff at the wall for no apparent reason and say, “yeah, lets do that.”
I disagree about the generations of producers/writers. I think both were willing to bend or break canon in service of a good story (or a terrible one in the case of ENT’s “Acquisition”, for example). If older generations were able to paper over the retcons, I don’t think it was because were more willing to, or that the new generations aren’t interested, it’s just that the older productions had more time to do so (both in episodes per year and years elapsed since the original episode).
Most of these major retcons are revealing that Starfleet knew about X race or Y technology before it was originally introduced. Each new Trek show wants to be able to get in on those fun sci-fi or Trek concepts that the other series get to play with. That is fairly logical or reasonable for something like cloaking devices (since they are a technology that shouldn’t have actually been a new concept in the 2260s, given current technology and in-universe science and science fiction), but the real problem is that it undercuts the emotion or purpose of the episodes where the concepts or aliens are first introduced. As viewers, getting past that feeling of undercutting and getting to a place where you can manage the cognitive dissonance of holding two conflicting ideas at the same time (1: thing X was new for these characters as it was originally depicted, and 2: thing X wasn’t actually new and had a whole complicated history in the Trek universe) is a skill that many fans, including me, have a hard time with.
Continuity isn’t the problem. I would overlook it if the stories were good. They are not. The writing is pure drivel. I hate seeing Anson Mount’s talent being wasted by writers who have no sincerity in their storytelling.
I have to assume that you truly believe this as it seems odd that it would be trolling…but it is hard to take seriously a claim that the writing is “pure drivel” and shows “no sincerity”. There are hundreds of other scripted television shows with writing that is actually drivel and hundreds of boring procedurals where there is no sincerity in the writing. SNW is not at all close to that.
I think you are expressing a dislike for the tone of the show but couching it as a pure quality view. SNW has lighter, less overly serious, less grim writing. This isn’t DIS with it’s overly self-serious approach. It’s also different from TNG and its “proper”, conservative approach.
The characters might not (yet) match their sometimes extremely brief or underwritten appearances in TOS, but that doesn’t make them badly written. And I can’t think of anyone who gets more praise for and enjoys his role more than Mount. If it were bad writing I think we would hear about it (ala Beltran).
This kind of opinion just makes me shake my head.
Gospel. ‘Kirk song and dance routine.’ My God, never thought I’d see the day….
🤣🤣🤣
Yeah same. But wait until you see him again as a puppet.. on ice! ⛸️
This show just, to me, gets sillier and sillier. That’s neither good nor bad I suppose, but as an avid TOS fan, I just can’t take it seriously. It’s fun, it’s light, it seems to make people happy. But to me, it’s very Trek ‘Lite.’ ‘Looks great, tastes Ok.’ Since it’s been established that SNW is in a different timeline than TOS, all the better. I’ll watch, watered-down Pike and Emo-Spock notwithstanding.
I think I mentioned this somewhere else but currently the shows tone and atmosphere reminds me like its a continuation of TOS season 3. It is as if the producers wanted to take the sillier elements of that season as a gospel and continue on from there. I wish it were closer to the tone and atmosphere of the first two seasons of TOS.
Totally agree with this. When the show was first announced I had a ton of enthusiasm which has been whittled away, episode by episode and season by season. It seems the writers and actors are having fun playing dress up with their parents Star Trek stuff, but the plots and characters are getting sillier and sillier. For those that love it, great, but I find it to be mediocre.
When was this established? I mean honestly in my head-canon it already was haha.
Hope they bring in McCoy and Sulu.
Legacy characters. All fans seem to care about these days.
Since there are literally a dozen TOS characters on this show after just two seasons, are you really surprised people would want to see the rest of them at this point?
And we know one, if not both, will probably show up by the end of next season anyway.
Wait only a dozen? I thought there were more? 😂
People give LDS so much grief. You know how many legacy characters were in season four? Three and none of them appeared until the final episode and just guest stars. No one hangs around the Cerritos the way Kirk does on the Enterprise. Of course Mariner and Boimler would love it if he did but really not the point.
You do realize that is the entire point of this show, right? We’ll have plenty of new characters with Section 31 and Academy.
Sulu can come along in Season 4, I think, but McCoy shouldn’t show up until Corbomite Manuever. Mark Piper at some point succeeds M’Benga before McCoy comes along.
No offense but I just find these arguments odd seeing what they have done with this show so far. According to TOS, Korby shouldn’t show up for another 5 years and is literally suppose to be missing in this period but here he is. You can say the same for the Gorn, T’Pring and definitely Kirk. They are all there now.
Bones probably shouldn’t show up until TOS but he will be there way before then. The Piper character may not ever show up and honestly would it even matter at this point?
I said shouldn’t, not won’t.
You’re right, my apologies. Sorry I jumped on you there Thorny. I think I should grab some water and settle down somewhere.
And by “drive right into TOS” they mean “as though it was a pedestrian in a crosswalk.”
Well put. And they’re driving a school bus.
Dictator on Day One!
LOL!
And if they mean they are driving into TOS as time naturally gets closer to that series, fine, but very very little about this show is lining up with TOS other than TOS characters appearing in it. That’s really about it.
amazing
“We have a bunch of ideas for the kinds of genres Star Trek can accommodate, and we continue to sort of try to stretch those boundaries.”
Well okay, Mr. Goldsman. I hope you manage to squeeze in one or two episodes, out of the limited ten, that are of the sci-fi genre.
but can SNW accommodate the Star Trek TOS genre? TBD I suppose
The way he talks about it makes it seem like he’s running a variety show.
I watched A Private Little War last night – an episode that has inspired me personally, creatively because of its intent. But wow – the Spock/Chapel relationship was not great. So it makes me feel a lot better about these “younger” takes on characters they can never be exactly.
If left to their own devices…..yeah, there won’t be a fifth season.
There’s much about this show I’m done holding my breath for.
Honestly the way Paramount is going I don’t think there will be one anyways. Soon they are going to want only one Trek production at a time and that will be Academy.
Keep up the work, SNW! Swing for those fences! Be outrageous and crazy. You’ve still got plenty of fans to alienate, after all.
Snark aside, I had such high hopes for this show. TOS showed us a galaxy that was ancient and we were but children exploring it. Landru was ancient. Vaal was ancient. Granted, they were computers, but they were ancient computers. The universe feels explored and worn out instead.
Not hating on it… just expressing disappointment in an opportunity wasted.
Very much agree with you. There was a sense of wonder and mystery, in ‘vastness’ if you will, ‘desolation,’ that TOS possessed, and which SNW just does not.
It’s more targeting the next generation (no pun intended) of Star Trek fans. They have to change with the times.
I like both old and new ‘Trek though I’m not a fan of TOS…far from it actually so I’m fairly happy thus far with the new shows (apart from Picard season 2).
That’s a failing strategy. There are nowhere near the number of new fans compared to the old. There is nowhere near in terms of numbers.
Star Wars has learnt this too, the new fans are a small minority compared to the legacy fandom.
no, you don’t have to change with the times, that’s an executive MBA myth. Look at TNG. They stuck to the same **formula**. It was early mid 80’s, the MTV generation. Yes, they updated the look and feel of the ship and tech to advance to the 24th century, but the heart of Trek was very much still rooted. And now, frankly – we’re only here 50 years later, still talking about a Star Trek tv franchise because of TNG.
If Akiva had been in charge, TNG would have looked like Max Headroom or a Dire Straits video to “change with the times”
Exactly – Changing with the times only makes sense if the original concept is so outdated it won’t work anymore. But with Star Trek, everything prior to Discovery WASN’T outdated. How do I know? I have a 3 year old and 7 year old WHO LOVE anything Trek from before the Kurtzman era. They are GLUED to it. Sure, it’s mainly because of me that they have been exposed to it, but how many legacy fans have done the same with their children – and then their grandchildren??
The difference now is that many kids have their own device to watch their own chosen content before they even get out of Kindergarten. Many families don’t even watch content together anymore. The concept of the younger generation just stumbling across Star Trek (especially older Trek) is almost impossible without parents or grandparents exposing them to Trek.
So instead, the hope of the current show runners is that nuTrek will go viral and pull in a fan base like many of the Netflix, HBO, Amazon Prime, etc. shows have done. They’ve decided that the gimmicks have to be crazy enough to get those views, and that dilutes the need to create meaningful episodes. If all you need is a short enough clip to catch the interest of someone on Instagram or TikTok, who needs an hour to make you want to learn about a new species, explore a strange new world, or even understand the moral of the story. No, all you really need is a bunch of humans changing to Vulcans in 30 seconds…
and consider how much of a resurgence BermanTrek had simply by way of Netflix. Voyager (not my favorite) had a massive surge within the past 10 years, even Enterprise. No need to change anything. If you build something good, the fans old and new, they will come.
Completely agree. Such a disappointment. I liked Season 1.
“Keep up the work, SNW! Swing for those fences! Be outrageous and crazy.”
Amen! That’s precisely why I love this show!
Yup. Virtually every episode of Season One involved long dead and ancient planets. Year Three was a string of ghost stories.
“The introduction of Korby creates a bit of a love triangle situation with Spock.”
Ugh…this got the biggest eye roll out of me. Like why? It’s just so silly and just a reminder none of this remotely lines up with canon. Spock never even met Korby until TOS and now they are both vying for Chapel?
I like this show and I have defended it many times, but this stuff is just not needed at all. We don’t need the silly melodrama; especially when it goes completely against canon.
Canon doesn’t exist anymore, imo Tiger, and it goes back to what you’ve been saying for years about prequels – basically a terrible idea. I’m glad that child-Khan episode last season made clear SNW is in a different timeline. I just kind of shrug now and hope for a decent story.
Of course you’re right and you obviously know my view on prequels. But what is ironic about SNW is this was the first Star Trek prequel I was legitimately excited for. And I knew they would take some liberties but I knew if nothing else it wouldn’t go off the reservation the way that Discovery did. Clearly they learned their lesson…so I thought.
And I guess that’s what we have to tell ourselves, this show just takes place in an alternate timeline and to be fair as you mentioned they gave themselves that out once the Temporal War and baby Khan came into the picture last season.
But then read the article, they keep acting like this show is on the same road paving the way to TOS. How are you ‘driving into TOS’ when all you are doing is just taking those characters and just doing whatever you want with them, canon be dammed? This is why it gets so frustrating for fans. They want their cake and eat it too. Either it’s just in a different timeline doing its own thing (which it obviously is) OR it’s supposed to be a direct prequel to TOS. It simply can’t be both. They originally tried to play that same game with Discovery and we see how well that ended up.
I wouldn’t be shocked if there will be an episode with Kirk, Spock,Sybok and Korby all sitting around a table drinking beer together. It’s just eye rolling.
Indeed, Tiger. It is literally exhausting with all the canon they break. I’ve kind of given up. And the thing that gets me is, they didn’t have to. Good Lord, I actually thought about sending ideas to ‘them.’ But I knew it would end up in the slush pile.I appreciate your energy here, very dedicated. I read every day here still, but comment much less, until we get the show we need. Cheers! 🍻
Except the showrunners AND even the Paramount executives allow them to continue pushing that there really hasn’t been any alternate timeline.
If Strange New Worlds is an alternate timeline, then by extension, Discovery, Lower Decks, Picard & Prodigy are all in alternate timeline as well, since they are more or less all interconnected. This even means Picard Season 3 would be considered so
Yup, pretty much. You get it. Except it seems considered (at least here, I think) that PIC lines up with TNG pretty well. In my mind, SNW screwed up TOS quite a bit, to the point where they knew they’d have to shape it into another timeline. Seems though, the TNG timeline is just fine. I know. Ridiculous.
TOS screws up itself quite a bit multiple times, especially in the SAME episode.
Khan’s sleeper ship is supposed to have been built in the 1990s which was from the time the Eugenics wars took place. However, there are also lines that say he was asleep in suspended animation for an estimated 200 years & Khan doesn’t bother making any corrections.
that episode is supposed to be in 2267, though they never firmly establish the actual years during the show, and it’s only later series that 100% lock it down. But, 200 years based on the estimate COULD in fact work with 2067 for a revised Khan. Remember, the Star Trek timeline can include anything that hasn’t actually happened for us. That’s always been the charm of the series. The Botany Bay could have been built in the 90s and launched later.
Personally that’s exactly what I think.
SNW – it is established in canon now with the 2024 ep that this is an alternate timeline due to the Temporal Cold Wars and Khan is born much later.
DISCO – since it is the same universe as SNW I take it to mean DISCO is as well.
Picard – They were also in 2024 in PIC S2. They brought up Khan and hand waved him and the Eugenics Wars away by saying the records of the time are shotty at best. So it could be the same timeline as Prime or it could not. But given the Romulan lady from SNW said Khan was in fact supposed to be from the 90’s I tend to lean towards the latter. And of course PIC S3 is in the same vein as PIC S2 timeline wise.
Okay, I think we have to back up & get some things straightened out.
in SNW, La’an & the alternate Captain Kirk from the timeline where Earth never formed the Federation, but still managed to venture out into space, they went to 2022.
2024 was visited by Sisko & Picard, but the latter was technically in an alternate timeline that was created & had a HUGE ripple effect that resulted in Guinan not knowing Picard in that timeline.
A thing to remember is that when it comes to Guinan, she said that in TNG in the two part episode Times Arrow, if Picard didn’t go back in time, they never meet. The alternate timeline essentially made that happen.
The thing that gets confusing about the whole time travel business is who apparently is in charge protecting the timeline.
One of the things to keep in mind as far as Khan’s placement is that TOS was created at a time when the 90s were still 20+ years away. They did have lines saying that they estimated Khan was in suspended animation for 200 years & that he had 200 years of catching up to do. This alone would make sense for the revised timeline, but not the 1996 timeline since that would be over 250 years.
I realize La’an and Alt Capt Kirk came from a timeline different than Prime. But they went back to our time which most likely is a shared history of both of the timelines before they diverged from one another. So Khan’s delay would still be a delay no matter which timeline we are talking about. Even in Picard S2 Khan is missing as well but Picard shrugs it off as records of the time possibly being inaccurate due to the Eugencis wars and WWIII.
I get the thing about Wesley and the Supervisors being responsible for protecting the timeline but if so they are doing a spectacularly bad job of it. One would think they would have a direct fight in the Temporal Cold war if that were the case.
The point that the UEF James Kirk traveled to with La’an was supposed to be the prime timeline, that’s what I’ve been trying to say in all of this.
UEF Kirk I think knew that if they succeeded in changing the outcome that he would cease to exist.
The Travelers I don’t think got involved in the Temporal cold war since there were already people that were working on trying to correct things already. They’re not really supposed to interfere unless it’s absolutely necessary.
But at what point do they deem it necessary then? I mean the TCW was set to undo all of history. What could be more necessary to interfere than that?
The Temporal Cold War was about what other species felt was right to use time travel for.
The Temporal Accords treaty, signed in the 28th century, prohibited the use of time travel for anything except its use of scientific study, in order to protect the flow of time.
Given that in the 29th century, we see formation of a branch of the UFP, the Temporal Integrity Commission in charge of preventing changes to the timestream, It would make sense that they would be looking to protect history as they knew it at that time. Daniels could just be an extension of that two centuries in.
Star Trek Online tries to go into more detail on why the Na’kuhl were so adamant about changing time: Apparently, the Tholians used the Tox Uthat to slowly cause their star to die by ceasing fusion. They did it because at a different point in time, the Na’kuhl attacked a ship carrying the Tholian Queen around the 23rd century. Pretty much a Temporal causality loop in that regard.
STO also shows the Temporal Accord signing day and the Tholians are of course there, representing a cause for the outlaw of ALL time travel just because of what it is capable of being used for, but that’s just for STO.
The issue you get into is it that is deciding what should be the RIGHT timeline to protect?
Some of us have gotten over the slavishness to continuity that has pervaded franchises in recent years. I cared as a teenager in the 90s, maybe, but I’m in my 40s now, that’s the last thing that keeps me up at night.
Personally, I’ve got a wonderful life to live, and not enough time to get mad that Pike met Kirk in a different way than was mentioned offhandedly in an episode of a different TV show 50 years ago.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Star Trek purists out there that feel like the canon created before Discovery has a right to be preserved and everything that has come out since is not canon to the original Roddenberry era canon, but instead its own canon & continuity, unrelated to what existed before & thus fight with people on a every few months basis over this.
I agree, the soapy love triangle they are creating between Spock, Chapel, and Korby goes against what we know from TOS.
I really liked the first season a lot, but then they started to lose me with the gimmicky big swings. I’ve defended many of their creative choices with the show, but it is getting more difficult to.
Sadly, the days of Trek using aliens of the week for smart and thought-provoking allegorical storytelling about modern issues are gone, and seemingly no longer desired.
As did I. I defended most of season one and actually a lot of season two as well. But things like the Spock/Chapel relationship just really feels so ridiculous to me. I did think in season one how they handled it was OK, meaning I had no issue that Chapel developed feelings for Spock so soon and it might be interesting to see how they played with it now that T’Pring was in the picture. That was already a reach but OK at LEAST you could tell yourself T’Pring was always supposed to be around, just not known to the crew.
But then sadly instead of taking a more nuanced and adult approach I was hoping they would, it had all the subtlety of a FOX/CW teen soap opera with a full on love triangle. It was was only missing a scene with T’Pring and Chapel in Spock’s quarters asking him to ‘choose’.
And now we get this nonsense. A character that is literally supposed to be lost in TOS now shows up and the new thorn in Spock and Chapel’s happiness. Again, I was OK with the fact they completely changed their original origin story but just develop the relationship with Chapel and Korby, the guy she is supposed to be engaged to in TOS.
Instead we got this ridiculous four way thing happening between Spock, Chapel, T’Pring and now Korby, the last two who shouldn’t even be known to the other two until literally years later. It’s just frustrating when you have a show that really could be doing much more better and interesting things with its time when its a show about exploring the galaxy and you only have ten episodes to do it in.
So they are carrying on the Spock and Chapel teenage like relationship into season 3. I can’t believe anyone enjoys it as it is cringe. I didn’t think they could write for Spock as badly as they have in season 2. SNW has definitely become the worse live action trek for me, pretty good cast but terrible writing and storytelling.
Also it tries to be too light at times, soap opera romance and sitcom. Just not doing it for me. Tbh looking forward more to The Orville season 4.
“Sadly, the days of Trek using aliens of the week for smart and thought-provoking allegorical storytelling about modern issues are gone, and seemingly no longer desired.”
And that, is a shame.
How do you know it’s going to be a “soapy love triangle?” How do you even know Korby will appear on screen with Spock? FFS some of y’all are so exhausting.
Right? Love triangles should really have died along with The CW. They feel so out of place and needless in Star Trek.
I’ll be a little fair and say they kind of did it a bit in some of the old shows but A. It was VERY rare and B. They usually handled it like the mature Starfleet officers we expected them to. The only one where I can think it got into CW territory was with Paris and Neelix vying for Kes. And that was just one episode and it was completely dropped from that point on.
But look at the way they handled Riker and Troi’s relationship. That was done so well because you had these two characters that was in a previous relationship and obviously still had feelings for each other but like real life situations we saw them give each other the space to just be with other people and not act like children over it. The only time we saw real jealousy out of Riker was when Troi and Worf started dating in AGT but it was just in that episode and it was really done to make it clear how strong their friendship really was.
But here they not only turned it into an arc no one was asking for, but a relationship between two people who aren’t even supposed to be together. Why keep calling this a ‘prequel’ to TOS when it’s clearly just rewritting everything that the show had set up?
Right so the difference between a regular love triangle and a CW one in my book is the former is simply a brief mechanism to drive a story and the latter grows so large it becomes the story, or at the very least a HUGE distraction from the story. Even with Tom and Neelix, it was never a true distractor from whatever was going on in the A Plot save for maybe one ep. I’m not saying modern Trek has full on gone with the latter version but each time they touch upon the idea they grow closer and closer.
Exactly. As you said those were just usually the B plots and in the background. They don’t drive the story the way the Spock and Chapel thing has been doing for two, soon to be, three seasons now.
And maybe I was just being naive, but I thought when Chapel broke up with him in Subspace Rhapsody that it was basically over. Yeah, they can still have feelings for each other but I guess I thought next season would just go back to Spock and T’Pring back together (BTW, have they gotten back together yet I honestly don’t know lol) and we see Chapel just dating Korby. But like every teen soap opera before it, it could never be that simple. ;)
Seriously I am just going to start calling Spock Dylan McCay from now on! (90210 reference)
Lol they are both pretty brooding.
Who will win Hot Chapels heart? Korby the robot vs Spock the Vulcan. Wow this is a tough one
I guess Korby isn’t a robot yet though, so Spock has the advantage there because men with less personality is apparently her type as long as they are hot. Unless they bring in a hot Korby (everyone is hot on this show except Ortegas…yeah come at me).
I’m kind of hoping her and T’Pring (also hot and has no personality either) ultimately ends up together though…at least for just one episode. You know Goldsman is pushing fot it and for once we agree.
Ha Chapel and T’Pring getting together would be total revenge on Spock!
the best love triangle in Trek was Kirk, Rand, and the Entrprise.
HAHA Rand never stood a chance!
One thing about driving right into TOS, is that all of the characters who are not in TOS have to go away somehow before then.
A year ago, I thought there was a good possibility someone wouldn’t survive Hegemony. But it appears that isn’t the case.
I don’t see that as a big deal. They will probably just do what they did in the final episode of DS9 and some will suddenly get new offers or promotions and leave in the finale along with Pike.
Maybe someone will be killed off before then but it will probably be in the final season.
There’s a confidence to this show and from the people involved in it that feels genuine. A million miles from the forced, empty, nothing comments from the Discovery people about “we’re a faaaamily, how beautiful everything is, how they all cried together and hugged for seven hours every day” etc
but – confidence doesn’t not always equal competence
The “confidence” comes from the internal pats on the back they’ve gotten from the actors. It’s been said multiple times each season that they are pretty much just doing this for themselves and the actors. They don’t have an interest in the fan base or anything that came before. They just want to make what THEY want to make, and then give the actors “unique” experiences to keep them happy. Sure, they are genuine in what they are doing, but it’s like someone writing fan fiction who throws themselves in as the hero and star of the show.
Creators should make things that they want to make. That’s not a bad thing.
Internet fandoms really are unbearable these days.
Creators CAN make what they want to make. There are so many outlets today, it’s ridiculous! You want to make a show like Star Trek and make it gimmicky – great, do that and pitch it to one of the many outlets that just want content (a.k.a Netflix, Prime, Max). But leave Star Trek out of it and leave the franchise to people who understand that there is a formula and a concept and a canon that just needed some love… not a whole new reinvention that turns longtime fans away and slowly destroys the IP.
As for internet fandoms – all I can say is there were Star Trek fans who came together to both love and hate on the franchise LONG BEFORE anyone had access to the internet. Nothing has really changed – including the expectation that people with lots of money and access to full TV/movie studios can produce something better than what’s coming out right now.
I knew it! They want to reboot TOS.
But will they call it a reboot? I don’t think they will.
No such thing as “reboot”. They’ll call it an alternate timeline (actually they already have)
They’ve pretty much created an alternate timeline, so in my book, it’s already a reboot. But they are too arrogant to just admit that it’s the same idea as what happened back in 2009. And by arrogant, I mean that they think they are creating something good enough to take the place of what came before and just call it TOS. Eventually, I’m sure they would love for everyone to think that TOS never existed in the first place.
They should. The original one is awful.
what’s awful about the original (S3 excluded ;) – and please bring something better than the sets and effects. A tired argument that shows creative and dramaturgical ignorance (IMO). That show looked amazing in it’s time. Look at the scripts, what they were trying to say, and the performances (yes, Shatner included). There’s a reason we still talk about that show affecting society for good vs something like Davy Crockett or Lost in Space.
Yes, yell that louder for those in the back. It’s a prequel, so the TOS characters shouldn’t act the same they do in TOS yet.
Unfortunately, there’s so many people that are continuing to push the whole “alternate timeline” bit based on Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, ignoring the fact that that time can be altered.
Isn’t Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow confirmed that’s what made it an alternate timeline?
Yeah, but then they go and do stuff like the revisit to Rigel VII which was an event established in The Cage.
You get a nod to the events of the Lower Decks crossover (Those Old Scientists) that establish Pike & his crew as being canonical to that of Lower Decks, which is supposed to happen AFTER Nemesis & Voyager.
Picard S3 also gets a nod that the OG USS Voyager becomes a museum ship.
Prodigy S2 establishes Admiral Picard, mentions a dysfunctional crew like the Cerritos, shows off cetacean Ops on Voyager-A & more or less indicates the events talked about in S1 of Picard (the use of the A500 Synths, the Synth attack on Mars) happened. The travelers & watchers/supervisors more or less being connected from Picard S2 & Jack Crusher is shown.
Wesley even mentions that he’s from the prime universe timeline, meaning that everything that’s happening IS in fact interconnected, despite what it is that contradicts with Tomorrow cubed.
THats the thing about an alternate timeline. Just because a timeline is alternate does not mean each and every single event in history has to be different. Rigel VII could have happened in both universes.
I’ve mentioned this here before but this is my personal theory. Looking at this from Jonathan Archer’s perspective. Prior to Broken Bow he is was living in the prime timeline. Then TCW happens and for centuries after the events of ENT, everything changes. Then Archer goes back in time to WWII, stops the TCW, and the prime timeline is restored.
Essentiall shows like Discovery and SNW exist in that TCW bubble that 4th dimentially exist after Broken Bow but get erased after Stormfront PII. In other words we are seeing the events of the Federation as they would have unfolded if the timeline was not reset in ENT.
The problem with that though is at what point do you consider the prime timeline to be restored, exactly?
Welp, according to Enterprise, its restored if you go back to the exact place and time where all of the convergences began and nip it in the bud and then time starts to reverse and restore itself.
See, that’s the issue I have. Who gets to determine what is the “right” thing to fix?
In my opinion, I don’t think ANY of it needs to be gotten rid of. Leave it be & just let the future showrunners sort it out.
For me, unfortunately it just gets to the point with canon that I don’t give a sh*t anymore. So I’m becoming a passive fan, which is a real bummer.
Excited to see Corby, you knew it had to come wit Chapel. Hope this gives them a push to have to explore some strange new worlds and get out there. By making him a cool character than should actually enhance the “follow up” TOS episode.
Also looking forward to young Scotty, hope he has to learn to fix and fight the ship in a time where they are “out there” and have to make it work.
I’ll trade x 10000 musical episodes (and a billion time travel reset nonsense episodes) for a an episode where the big E has to represent the entire UFP because it’s the “only ship in the quadrant” facing the unknown.
I’m starting not to like this show. They’ve already tampered with Canon so much it feels like they are covertly trying to reboot TOS era. Its sacred to me. SNW should have stayed away from all of TOS characters except Spock of course. Let the show ride on its own agency instead of clout chasing with TOS era characters.
I feel exactly the same.
and the thing is, there’s no reason to be covert and shy about it. If they had said with Discovery “hey folks, it’s a new century, a new network, and we’re rebooting Trek. We’ll start here and “discover” what Trek means to us in our 21st century, I feel the response to Disco would have been dramatically different.
I agree that it should have just been a reboot. But honestly, I think they didn’t do it because they didn’t really want to have to start over and be TRULY original. They wanted to work off of what came before, almost as a crutch. They knew that good characters and storylines already existed, so why come up with anything original? Instead, they seem to have decided that they can just throw a random character in from the past, and then just play around with them. Canon doesn’t really matter in terms of preserving it, but having it available to avoid the work of coming up with something new – why not?!
I… I just want to watch a nice reliable, consistent show you know? About the only consistent thing about it right now is the credits, and the inconsistency of story delivery. By always changing the format/genres, you’re just fourth-wall breaking, “look at what we’re doing, isn’t it great”. No. It’s not great. It’s not clever. It would be great if you could stick to a style and have stories that capture imagination and thought. But sorry, you’re losing me :(
I was about post something similar but you said all I wanted to say and now I don’t have to. Well said.
I am so bored by this show. It has nothing interesting to say and it covers it up with what appears to be a parade of gimmick episodes. Everything about it is completely and utterly soulless (maybe not Anson’s hair), it’s as though it’s been written by committee for the sole purpose of appeasing disgruntled fans. And the “big swings” they took in Season Two were anything but besides the musical episode.
Yes a “parade of gimmick episodes”.
All two of them last year.
It’s got a parade of legacy characters as well. What do you say to all the legacy characters showing up? hmmm?
Oh I am SO ready for this.
La’an being a descendant of Khan: gimmick
Spock bodyswapping: gimmick
The Sybok cameo that adds absolutely nothing to the episode: gimmick.
Kirk in the Season 1 finale finale: gimmick
Spock becoming human: gimmick
The crossover: (a damn good) gimmick
The musical: gimmick.
Multiple characters becoming Vulcan: gimmick.
Poor you only thinking I was talking about Season 2.
And that’s not even touching on M’Benga going from quiet, philosophical dad in Season 1 to drug-addled mass murderer in Season 2, which is the most baffling and ridiculous character assassination I have ever seen. Closely followed by Chapel being complicit in it. I have zero qualms about M’Benga being a veteran of the war- but at least make it believable. There is absolutely no way in hell Starfleet would ever let him practice medicine knowing he had been creating huge amounts of narcotics designed to turn people into killing machines.
But I’m sure you will a) tell me I wrong and b) go on to complain the legacy characters and “fan service” in SNW like you do with every other recent Star Trek television show.
seems like a way to have M’Benga off the ship, rather than just a simple “he transferred to Starfleet Medical….”
A little louder for the people in the back! And let’s not forget that every location, name drop, and inside joke referencing previous canon is ALSO a gimmick. Yes, that’s been done by every Trek since TOS, but the fact is that it’s gimmickry, and this show seems to exploit it more than any other.
The interesting thing is that two of the Trek shows (from before nuTrek) I see criticized the most in this day and age are Voyager and Enterprise. And in both cases, they used a ton of gimmicks to try to pull in fans. Sure, both had decent fan bases at certain points in their history, but it didn’t last forever. Even the final season of Enterprise is FULL of gimmicks aimed directly at the most loyal of fans, and it didn’t save that ship from sinking.
If nothing else, you would think that might have been a good point of reference when trying to create a show that’s now almost completely reliant on the next gimmick.
The producers seem to have lost sight of the fact that this show was supposed to be about the adventure of Pike’s crew. Instead it’s quickly devolved into “how many TOS characters can we cram into this show?”.
I am grateful that the show has *finally* done the right thing and explored Uhura’s backstory and we get to see her doing something other than opening hailing frequencies- but there is just no need for Kirk to show up every few episodes, for Scotty to appear, for Chapel to have a love affair with Spock etc. And now we know they are determined to bring in Sulu, McCoy et al, it’s straying even further away from the premise.
A lot of the time Pike and his crew feel like guest stars in their own damn show!
Honestly, when this show first started I didn’t envision Kirk showing up till the very end when Pike reliquishes command.
That’s the way it should have been.
Once again, I completely agree, and I also agree that Kirk’s introduction less that a season in made no sense. If nothing else, that actually steals more time and potential storylines from Pike. How does that make sense? Wasn’t Anson Mount one of the BIGGEST reasons SNW got greenlit in the first place? Ethan Peck wasn’t even really Spock for the first several episodes of the DISCO season, but Pike was there all the way through. As far as I was concerned, HE was the selling point that made everyone jump on board. And last season, he didn’t even play a major role in half the episodes!
I really got to thinking about it one day, and if they had just stuck with the original characters (including Hemmer), I think the show would already have been better. Bring in Carol Kane in season two, but cap it there. Have some fun with the new crew, and stop off on some actual STRANGE NEW WORLDS!
There was no saving Enterprise, the entire network was going under. It was unprecidented.
If i had time I would list the hundreds of episodes of classic Trek that would qualify as “gimmicks” under your ludicrous rules.
Try harder. This comeback was weak. You don’t have anything of substance to say or a compelling argument.
Or you know, just log off. You’ve been winding other people up for a while now and you are becoming boring and tedious.
What an unsurprisingly childish post.
When you only have 10 eps 2 is a lot.
True, but 1 of them is beloved (Those Old Scientists) and the other is divisive, some loved it, some hated it. I’d say overall that’s a win.
I LOL over Mounts hair bit! 😅
It really should get its own spin off someday.
Honestly, it defies physics. It’s a modern wonder of the world!
But will the delta waves destroy it?
An Omega molecule detonation could not destroy that masterpiece!
Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Strange New Worlds, but I don’t get this obsession to ‘go crazy’ or to ‘stretch boundaries’ every single time. Just tell good stories! It’s fun to try new things once in a while, but you don’t need to re-invent the wheel every single episode.
This might be my Dutch attitude of “Just do normal, that’s crazy enough” (yeah it looses something in translation haha), but still, I feel it applies here.
Every time I see Goldsman gives an interview I always imagining him giggling like a 12 year old girl at the end of every statement. Seriously give it a try. He seems to think his ideas are more clever than they really are, at least on paper.
I like this show, it’s a tie with Enterprise for me but maybe they should try to concentrate on making a strong sci fi show with interesting stories instead of trying to up the gimmicks every season. I really have a feeling we are getting puppets on ice next and all set on Andoria. I’m not saying it will be bad but some of the haters will be moaning about it for sure. I see you Midnight Edge.
Probably be OK if Frakes direct it though.
And they have over stuffed this show with too many legacy characters and canon that feels out of place to TOS. With the exception of deadwood Kirk I like most of them but no way is anyone supposed to know who Sybok is at this point except Spock and now most of the cast is already on the ship. Technically deadwood Kirk isn’t yet, but c’mon.
I have to rewatch that episode with Korby I guess. I seen it before but it’s been a long long time ago. I do remember him being a robot though…but he was still with Chapel so what’sthe problem? Can anyone tell the difference?
Anywhoo, I did like the first two seasons and TOS is still easily my favorite episode so I’m staying open minded. But maybe less comedy and musicals and more stories about seeking out strange new worlds.
Gimmicky as it was, but Those Old Scientists is a phenomenal episode. By far and away, my favourite from the first two seasons. A laugh riot from start to finish. Jack and Tawny were *perfect* as live action Boimler and Mariner. I still giggle over Mariner lusting after Spock.
HA I would say Boimler lusted after Spock more than Mariner!
Quit insulting the best Western of the 21st century! Call him ace kirk instead maybe, or cable guy kirk.
Ya know I don’t mind gimmicy eps. All Treks save for the OG have had them. But when you are stuck doing only a ten episode season it becomes a very very different thing and thats where my issue lies. If you only have so much bandwidth to tell good stories then maybe focus on doing that?
Season 2 jumped the shark. Star Trek is a joke now.
My genuine hope is that they go right into and past TOS. Pike leaves the ship, Kirk comes aboard, and the show takes a hiatus before being relaunched as “Star Trek: 1701.”
New stories, remakes of classic episodes, explore more interesting aspects of the universe that TV wasn’t allowed to touch in 1966.
“Of course, Strange New Worlds is a prequel to Star Trek: The Original Series, featuring the same ship and many of the same characters” – eh…..featuring the same character names. Not the same characters. And no, I’m not talking about casting.
If they had just made this a new canon, I think it would be even bigger among the fan base, but the insistence on changing things and saying it’s all canon is maddening and sours the milk for me. But that’s also beating a dead Tiberian bat so…
Indeed, you are not alone in this thinking. It kind of sucks.
I’m not sure I agree with you that the show would be more popular with fans if it was in a separate canon. The JJ Abrams films are a canon in and of themselves, and I very rarely see any enthusiasm for them within the fandom.
I think it would be better received, or at least one barrier would be down
Number One’s augment arc over the course of the first two seasons of the series cements why Starfleet and the Federation would not go forward with creating more augments to pilot the spore drives. They are illegal, and to approve them would mean rescinding the law against them, which would be problematic as it would allow less savory types (like Soong) to create their own augments, which as shown on Enterprise is not a good idea.
Had Stamets not fled to the future, he would likely have been brought up on charges for breaking the law, much like Una was for concealing her species.
Yes! Because Star Trek has never done a murder mystery/noir before. A Matter of Perspective? Necessary Evil? A Wolf in the Fold? Anyone?
I’m really excited for the 4th season where they put in for R&R at an intergalactic diner and meet Space Fonzie! That’s a genre mash-up that’s never been done before.
I personally think they are only addressing the murder mystery because of Frakes. It’s almost the good old, “if Frakes liked it, you should LOVE it!!” concept. It’s not new, but I’m sure they took a “big swing” with some part of the plot. Apparently that may have something to do with Kirk, and chances are it will just screw up his character even more…
Interesting analysis. It does not fill me with hope
Why do I now get the feeling Kirk is going to be the Prime (no pun intended) suspect?
Why all my comments on this website are constantly removed even if they are about topics? Can any MODERATOR write me back on my mail? Thank you.
So much positivity in the comments.
Take a big swing. Get Shatner back!
–Jim… Did you know Christopher Pike?
–I saw him only once, when he gave me command of the Enterprise.
–Didn’t you sing together?
–What?
LOL!
I watch SNW, but can’t say I’m a big fan of it. I was excited when it was announced we’d be getting a Pike show, and I’m kind of disappointed it’s not the ‘cerebral’ hard sci-fi show the network originally rejected, which is what I, at least, wanted.
That and the fact that, for me, there are too many TOS characters too soon. I’d have preferred to explore Pike’s crew for at least three seasons before bringing in TOS characters, though I do understand the need for a smooth transition between the two crews. And for me if you are going to bring in any TOS character, Scott should have been first (bar Spock for obvious reasons) – he is the oldest, again bar Spock, and it is HIS ship. HIS beloved engines. HIS girl – even more than Kirk.
if they do bring in McCoy (my favourite TOS character) though, I hope they bring in Joanna as well and cover that ground that TOS couldn’t.