Last week the fifth and final season of Star Trek: Discovery arrived on Blu-ray and DVD complete with exclusive special features (see TrekMovie review). With season 5 now coming home one last time, TrekMovie checked in again with gust star Elias Toufexis to talk his role as the Breen L’ak.
We talked right before the finale aired and you didn’t want to get into how L’ak’s story ended. So, now that it’s over, how do you feel about the end of his story?
I think like everybody else, I kind of wanted a happier ending, but I understand. I wanted him to come back and just be like, “Oh, good,” and he and Moll go off and live their lives. But I think story-wise, it makes more sense to do what they did. I don’t know if they had plans for Moll or if they still have plans for Moll. But obviously, them together wasn’t how it was going to turn out. So, I was disappointed because I loved playing L’ak and I loved their relationship and I wanted them to be together. But from a pragmatic storytelling point of view, I understood the choice. And I didn’t know that at the time, when I was shooting the death scene. I didn’t know if he was coming back or not. So I never got that kind of feeling of finality.
For the finale, did you play your own corpse?
No. They asked me to do it and I was like, “Should I fly back up to Toronto and play a corpse?” And my kids were starting school and I was like, “Nah, forget it, you could just put it on somebody up there.” And it’s fine. It looks great. I don’t know if they put it on a person or if it was a dummy or whatever they did, but it wasn’t me.
L-R Elias Toufexis as L’ak and Eve Harlow as Moll in “Erigah” (Paramount+)
The first time I saw you talk about Trek was at the Vegas convention the year before season 5 came out and you described L’ak as the main villain for the season…
Or one of the main villains, is probably what I said.
But is that really how you see him?
No. That was just how to sell it, like I’m not going to say, “I’m playing one of the main villains, but they’re not really villains. They actually have a real reason to do what they’re doing, and they don’t hate anybody, but they want people to just leave them alone.” It’s harder to say in a sound bite, but that’s really what I thought. I never saw him as a villain. You can’t really play villains. It doesn’t really make sense if he’s just evil. Then it’s boring.
One of my favorite things is how they gave me a whole episode to play why he’s doing what he’s doing. That’s pretty rare. I play a lot of bad guys on TV, and most of the time its somebody else who explains, ‘Well, his dad did this to him,’ or I have one monologue where I explain what happened and this is why I’m like this. But to actually have a whole episode dedicated to explore why he’s making these choices. That, for me, was fantastic. I never played him as an actual villain. I mean, he’s one of the antagonists, no doubt, but to him, he just wants freedom and he wants to be with his love and he wants everybody to leave him alone.
Sonequa Martin-Green as Burnham Elias Toufexis as L’ak in Star Trek: Discovery “Mirrors” (Paramount+)
As a genuine Trek fan, you knew all about the Breen beforehand. Did you have a chance to talk to the writers much about how they were developing the Breen canon? And is there more than what we saw on screen?
Yes. I talked to the writers a lot. I talked to [co-showrunner] Michelle [Paradise] and [executive producer/director Olatunde Osunsanmi] a lot about the Breen hierarchy. And we had to make up together why he has this antagonistic relationship with his uncle, why doesn’t he want to be this prince? and stuff like that.
Why doesn’t he?
I don’t really remember the specifics of it, but I remember what I was playing was basically, ‘I’ve never wanted this. I’m not like you. I don’t like this militaristic lifestyle.’ It’s a classic story of the prince or the princess not wanting to be a prince or princess. I remember thinking maybe playing in my head that my uncle killed my actual parents because he wanted to take over and was scared of them. I definitely played that I was scared and frightened of him, even though I hated him. There are moments – and I’m glad they captured them – that I played that we didn’t rehearse where he’s talking and you can see that L’ak is a little frightened of him. I’m glad they kept those things in.
In terms of the overall Breen, I do have some friends from Deep Space Nine. The Breen were mentioned in TNG but explored mostly in Deep Space Nine and so I remember calling my friend Robert Hewitt Wolfe who was one of the main writers on DS9… and he filled me in on the background of the Breen from that era. And I am sure I used that somewhere in the performance of the Breen in the new Trek era.
L-R Elias Toufexis as L’ak and Eve Harlow as Moll in “Red Directive” (Paramount+)
Things often get changed, was there anything written or shot that got cut that you wish didn’t?
No, they were pretty good. I was really nervous about that because I thought, ‘Man, if they’re going to cut this, then it’s not really going to work.’ There were some shots that were trimmed, but for the most part, everything we shot was there. I did have an issue once with the ending of episode 5, when he gets stabbed. I’m not one-hundred-percent sure about this, but I think originally he wasn’t going to be in any more episodes and he would have just died then. The way it was written was kind of like his final “I love you, goodbye.” Even though I knew at that point we had decided that he’s going to come back for more episodes, but I don’t think they changed the script. So we had to make that kind of denouement of, “I love you Moll, everything’s going to be okay, goodbye.” We had to keep those lines, but make it not goodbye. And I remember Michelle was there and the writers were there, the director was there. And Eve [Harlow] and I and Sonequa [Martin-Green] we all were like, “How do we make this work?” And it took a little bit to make it work. I think what we ended up deciding was he knows that they’re trapped. He’s giving up because he knows they’re trapped, not because he’s dying. We kept the script the same, but we kind of changed the intention.
You can keep up with Elias on Twitter/X. He can be heard voicing one of the main characters in the Netflix series Blood of Zeus, which just got picked up for a third season. He also voices the main character in the upcoming sci-fi game Neo Berlin and returns to his Starfield role of Sam Coe in the Shattered Space expansion which arrives later this month.
Elias Toufexis
Star Trek: Discovery season 5 out now
Discovery Season 5 can be bought at Amazon on Blu-ray for $32.99 or DVD for $29.99. The limited edition Steelbook Blu-ray can be ordered for $39.99.
Season 5 Steelbook Blu-Ray
The complete series box set is available for $55.47 on Blu-ray and $47.87 on DVD.
Box art for complete series Blu-ray edition
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Note: The interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
L’ak was not a terrible character, but there was nothing about him that was interesting. He was one of the most forgettable characters that Discovery came up with. At least he wasn’t as one-dimensional as Moll.
Well, I thought they were both more three-dimensional the villains in the two preceding seasons, or the incestuous Romulan in PICARD season 1. Not that this is a high standard.
The big letdown, though, was the Breen in general. Underneath the environmental suits, they’re basically garden-variety latex aliens that can make their skulls transparent sometimes. Big whoop. And like the Cardassians or Romulans, they have a totalitarian government. They might as well have *been* Cardassians.
I’m totally with you on the Breen. Thirty years of mystery, resolved with…. er…. they’re fascist Jello. The Breen was pointless.
It’s always amusing seeing interviews like these or the ones with Wilson Cruz asking about their character’s job or backstory, and them not knowing.
Sadly, it’s common with the Discovery cast since the writers gave them so little material. Very few of the characters had any actual development or backstory.
Sadly I expect nothing less from this show. I remember Anthony Rapp said something similar about his character as well. Another example of how badly written and organized it was. They were smart to just finally put it out of its misery.
Out of all the bad decisions Star Trek Discovery has ever made, giving a backstory to the Breen has gotta be one of the most emblematic. Their species’ whole deal is that no one knows anything about them, aside for how dangerous it is to turn your back on them. It’s the worst thing you could do to a Star Trek DS9 idea besides making Section 31 be on Starfleet’s payroll. It just so totally misses the point of what makes those ideas so appealing in the first place: the mystery! The intrigue! It’s a perfect microcosm of Discovery’s #1 policy: “if less is more, imagine how much more more will be?”
For full disclosure, I never saw Discovery season 5. But reading this article about how the main Breen heavy in this season has a main character arc about fighting his uncle about not wanting to become prince of the Breen… if you have to give the the most mysterious Trek species a cultural backstory after they nearly conquered the Federation single-handedly and then got off Scott-free without ever revealing their faces, their voices, or anything else about themselves, DON’T base them off Ariel from The Little Mermaid! There’s a reason I stopped watching midway through season 4.
Good point.
The problem with L’ak is that it was almost like the people who wrote the first half of season 5 didn’t talk with the people who came up with the conclusion to the season. Or, more likely, at some point the writers had no idea how to write an ending for these characters, so they did a weird shift at the end that made no sense for the characters.
L’ak is set up as this nothing nephew of the Primarch who’s such an embarrassment they have him doing cargo inventory. And his entire reasoning for getting the Progenitor technology to spare himself and Moll from a death warrant.
BUT…
In order for the Breen to be the threat at the end, they have to throw all that out and redo it at the end, where now L’ak is the special “scion” of the Breen that all of them need. If L’ak is that important, and has that much influence that different Breen factions need his support (and the Breen would follow Moll in order to try to resurrect him), why would he and Moll need the progenitor tech in the first place? But the plot demands that because they need the Breen to be the antagonists.
It goes along with Moll’s conclusion where they basically “yada yada” her ending off-screen, with Kovich like “oh yeah, we’ll turn her into a Federation agent.”
It’s a total mess.
The writers screwed the space-pooch.
The L’ak and Moll were unnecessary this season.
If anything, they were a distraction.
It felt like Scooby Doo, all the back and forth with the Relics…
I watched the first 2 episodes of Disco S5. Then I got occupied by other things. Never felt a strong desire to watch the rest. This article and the comments have further inspired me not to watch.
I only got as far as the first episode of the season. It just felt more of the same for me (read bad) and more generic villains want to take down the galaxy. I had planned to watch the few two episodes at least before I decide if I would watch more but I couldn’t even get that far. I know the actors playing L’ak and Moll did their best but it just felt more of the same we get on this show
And while I love the Breen as a species on DS9, sadly it sounded like they were ruined on Discovery hearing the complaints about them online. I didn’t read any of the threads here or anywhere about the season because I just lost all interest in the show; but looking at most of these posts people seemed to have the same complaints about them here as well.
And like you the comments here about the season just told me I made the right call haha.
So I choose to just remember them on how they were portrayed on DS9 and just avoid the Discovery versions altogether because unfortunately I think Discovery is a really bad show that I have no desire to keep subjecting myself to.
I decided to give Discovery a chance to redeem itself and watched S5… but gave up before the end and didn’t watch the finale. I just couldn’t make myself watch it when I knew I would get nothing out of it. I’ve had enough of the hugging and tears and “you’ve got this!” attitude from characters propping each other up for support and validation like 12 year olds trying to get the courage to face their first day of high school…
This is exactly why I gave up so early because even just based on the first episode it felt like it was already going down that route. I didn’t want to get into a season I would just give up on because I’m tired of all the crying and hand holding. I stopped watching in the middle of seasons 3 and 4 like you did with this season. I didn’t want to do it for a third time.
If I was hearing the season was much improved then I would’ve tried again. But it sounded like the same complaints as before and the story itself just dragged. It was obvious they used a TNG storyline to try and make people care about this show again but sorry that still wasn’t enough.
And I looked at the rating of the finale on IMDB and it was pretty low, like a 6.2 or something. I don’t remember exactly but it’s one of the lowest Star Trek finales ever. Just speaks to the problems this show always had from the beginning to the bitter end.
It’s actually at 6.1 now on IMDB although it could’ve been at a 6.2 when you viewed it. I posted the finale ratings a few days after it aired back in June and it was a bit higher at 6.3. Yeah pretty low for a series finale. It’s currently the second least rated finale after TATV. Just for comparison sake the highest rated Discovery finale was the season 2 finale with an 8.2 and actually the highest rated episode of the series tied with ‘If Memory Serves’, also a season 2 episode.
As for this finale, I personally gave it a 7/10 so liked it a little more but not shocked how mixed it is. I mean it’s still Discovery lol.
All I can say is personally I did like the finale overall. It stuck to landing IMO. And while I am very mixed on season 5 too I think it’s my favorite season of the show. But yeah it’s very strange to say that since I still had a lot of problems with the season overall but welcome to Discovery lol. But like Picard season 3 which I also think was flawed, I still enjoyed it more than the others. But yeah that doesn’t say a lot for either show either.
I didn’t like all the melodrama and hand holding stuff either but I think there was a lot less of it this season compared to the last two IMO.
Just curious but what was the last episode you watched in season 5?
The last one I watched was the one right before the finale. It’s not that S5 was as bad as the other seasons, I just became completely indifferent. My fav season was actually S1, despite hating the Klingons and the arc with what’s-his-name Klingon that became human… S5 just felt contrived. They were going through the steps to get the next piece of the puzzle like connecting numbered dots… you knew they were going to find the next clue. And the mint jello Breen were as bad as the Gorn in SNW. We didn’t need to know their backstory.
OK gotcha. And yeah I don’t disagree with you the season felt contrived but Discovery had basically became a fetch show since season 2 lol. In season 2, they had to find all the red signals to put the clue together and discover who the red angel was. In season 3, there weren’t specific tie ins to clues but they basically were putting the pieces together planet to planet to figure out what caused the Burn. In season 4, it basically followed season 3 playbook and they were searching different clues to discover what the DMA was and how to stop it but not so directly like seasons 2 and 5.
But all those seasons involved them jumping from place to place that ultimately revealed the big secret. Season 5 and 2 felt the most contrived because someone had put those clues for someone to find them. And then season 5 went even farther because they turned it into a test of some kind and who was ‘worthy’ to even get the clue. But I guess it worked for me because these are actually my two favorite seasons lol.
And of course all of them involved saving the galaxy in some way. It’s just what Discovery became but I see why they liked that formula since every season started off with a major mystery and it was fun to see how they found clues to solve it. But yeah unfortunately the bad writing/resolutions and wheel spinning made the journey less exciting as it went season to season. Season 5 wasn’t that different in that regard but I wasn’t completely bored by the end the way I was with season 4. I honestly could’ve just stopped watching that one by the finale because I just didn’t care anymore. So I feel you on that.
Haven’t gotten to this season yet, but I did enjoy his performance in Star Trek: Resurgance…
For the most part, despite my deep issues with the season as a whole, I did enjoy it including having the Breen back and L’ak’s role in it. But I do have to agree with others, looking back on it now, how they handled the Breen felt disappointing overall and yes maybe less is more by keeping what they looked like a secret. And I think L’ak and Moll were OK, but as someone said, they were basically there because they needed a villain and not that important to the overall story. They did tie them closer to it when L’ak was killed but the season suffered for it IMO. I think he should’ve stayed through the whole thing.
I think what would’ve been a much better idea (and yes this is all in hindsight obviously) if L’ak and Moll were actually trying to find the progenitor technology themselves from the beginning and be more proactive in the story. It could’ve been a nice twist that they were looking for it because L’ak had a child that recently died and believed the technology could bring them back. He basically convinced the Breen to help him find it so they can use it to conquer the galaxy or something but we realize later in the story he wanted it for a more personal reason. And since Moll loves him she was helping him to bring back his child. And then we learn in the end they couldn’t really bring them back as thought which would’ve been a more tragic but poignant ending.
At least that way, they would have a much stronger connection to the story instead of just stumbling on the technology and then later Moll just happened to want to use it to save L’ak. They still could’ve been ruthless but not quite villains either. Kind of a similar motivation to Soran trying to get into the Nexus to be with his family again in Generations. But just my thoughts.
I wasn’t a fan of the character or plotline but always happy for a hardcore trekkie when they get to be a part of the show