Jonathan Del Arco, who played Hugh on Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Picard and Fantome on Voyager, chatted with us about the Trek the Vote show on October 2, a fundraiser for Vote Save America. In part 1 of our interview with Del Arco, we asked him what to expect at this “comedy show that blends politics, games, and a healthy scoop of hot nerdery.” Now read part 2, where we talked about how he found himself on Picard, the surprise news that his character was going to die, and more.
(This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.)
You turned up on season 1 of Picard; were you given any kind of backstory on what Hugh had been up to and how he got to where he was?
I sure wasn’t! [laughs] We were lucky enough to have rehearsal for the first episode, we had some time because they were building sets and they were running way behind, they were rewriting a bunch of scripts and we sat around talking, and they were like, “I don’t know.” So I did come up with a lot in my own head of what I thought, and we did have one person who was more knowledgeable on this, Kirsten Beyer, so I did talk to her. She was helpful and helped me kind of hash out what might have been in that middle ground, which was very helpful. But initially, no, I was trying to piece together exactly—they kept saying to me, he’s really broken, and I didn’t understand what that was. A very weird note to me. I didn’t understand what that meant. And then once I got into him and into the scenes, I completely comprehended what they meant by broken… I eventually got there, but I use all kinds of things to motivate my mental state on the ship and to try to find a thread. What I didn’t want to happen, because it’d been so many years and I was in so much makeup the first time, for the fans to not recognize Hugh, that there needed to be some thread of recognition of who that young person might have become.
So did you have any specifics that you came up with in terms of, like, what he’d been doing?
Yes, he dedicated his life to the betterment of the little collective that followed him as they broke off from The Collective, as it were, and became their leader and their guide. And then when this opportunity came up to work on the on The Artifact. He took it because he felt, were he not there it, the situation, would have been even worse for the xBs, even though he wasn’t capable of protecting them fully. He did what he could within that job to keep things from going completely off the rails, right? Which eventually they did.
Jonathan Del Arco as Hugh in Star Trek: Picard. Photo Cr: Trae Patton/CBS ©2019 CBS Interactive, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Was this a situation where they had written Hugh in and then called you, or was there someone on the production—I know you’d worked with [executive producer] James Duff, who was on the show at that point. Was that something he did? How did it all happen?
James was the showrunner on The Closer and Major Crimes and a very dear friend of mine and Jeri [Ryan]’s, and he had been hired to come very early on, one of the early executive producers and writers of a spin-off of Star Trek. We didn’t know what it was. There was no Picard yet. It was a spin-off of Star Trek. Alex Kurtzman, James Duff, and I believe maybe one other writer was involved at the time, and James really wanted it to be a Borg spin-off. That’s why he talked to Jeri and I, and really started talking to them about it being this Borg storyline. And somewhere within that he discussed it with us maybe a year before it even happened. And they didn’t have Patrick yet. So I think then they went and made the pitch to Patrick. But had Patrick not done it, some kind of show about the Borg would have happened. It would not have been Picard, it would have been a show about the Borg. And you can even tell how heavily Borg-influenced it was. So the Borg was really the the kernel, from what I understand of of the beginning of that idea. And once Patrick became involved, the pieces began to fall into place, and we were set up and given deals to come be a part of the show. What I was not told was that I was getting killed, because that was not James’s plan. And James left the show before they began filming. He had a creative differences and left, I think, weeks before I even began. I’d signed my contract, and the people that were left, I think, then made that decision without my being told or even knowing about it through gossip. I read it in a script. That was the first time I ever—
They didn’t tell you before they sent you the script?
No.
That’s always fun for an actor.
It was not. [laughs]
Do you know why?
I have no idea what the creative reasoning for killing Hugh was. I was told they needed it to propel the story. And maybe they thought, that’s how they get Seven onto the cube. I just think they missed a lot of really great storytelling opportunities with Seven and Hugh… Had I stayed on the show, I wouldn’t have gotten to do these two movies that I did, one which premieres October 18 in theaters, The Grotto. I would have never gotten to do The Grotto, because I would have been filming Star Trek and so creatively, I don’t regret it. I don’t feel bad about it. The only thing I regret is I didn’t get to do stuff with a couple of people, Jeri Ryan and LeVar Burton. Those are the two people I wanted to really have an opportunity to connect with as characters. Creatively, those are the two relationships I really wish I’d gotten to do.
Given that season 3 of Picard was so Borg heavy, it seems like that would have been a great opportunity, especially because your original adventures were with that whole crew.
I mean, not having to have a scene with Geordi, or to even ask about Geordi was completely misinformed to me. I kept asking, “Shouldn’t I ask about Geordi?” Nope… But you know what? I’m fine with that, because I got to do these movies, and I’m excited that I did. People magazine just put the trailer out [for The Grotto] today.
I just rewatched your first episode of Next Gen [“I, Borg”] and all over again, your performance blew me away. Did you have any thought back then that the episode and Hugh would have such an impact on viewers, not only to come back later in TNG, but decades later?
I think about it often. I wonder, what about the performance and the character hit people in such a primal way? And I think that character is a study in loneliness. And I just think that that’s something everyone can identify with at some point in their life, feeling alone. We come into the world alone, we leave the world alone. I think it’s a very scary thing for people, and it’s a very isolating thing for people to be disconnected from family and friends and being alone. There’s a ethos to that that I think really strikes at it. At the time when I played the role, I was going I was in grief, my partner had passed, so I was in a very particular space as a person that I think I put into the role that had a beautiful resonance to people. I think people just connected to that, to the truth of that person.
There was a vulnerability there.
Absolutely, yeah. So I think that that’s why. But it’s also a great character to come out of this sort of villainous—the idea that the villainous collective has this vulnerable, fragile creature amongst them.
You had a great scene with Whoopi… Do you remember anything about filming it? Had you worked with her before?
I had never worked with her. I was a fan, and I remembered her just being the loveliest person ever, and joyful and smiling—she was a fan of Star Trek. So she was really, really, really into it. I remember, because you film things in a certain order; when you’re a star, it’s called shooting you out, which is, let’s get all your stuff done so you could go home. I remember her insisting that they do all of MY stuff first, because I was in the uncomfortable costume. So then I could relax out of some of that makeup and do her stuff. I remember thinking that that was just amazing. And then she said, “Come back and say hi to me when you’re out of that makeup.” And so I did. I went back, and she goes, “Oh, you’re so cute!” So it was a really cute moment. She wanted to see what I looked like out of all my stuff. She was terrific.
And you also had great scenes with Patrick, with LeVar… there must have been something fun in that scene with Patrick in Picard, where you got to actually hug.
I will take full credit for the hug. It was not in the script. And I hear a lot of people talk about the hug being a moment for them, so that’s nice to hear… It was odd, the way it was written. We just had the conversation, there was no physical touching going on. And Patrick said, “I feel like we should at least shake hands or something.” And I said, “Would you mind if I hug you?” And he said, “No, let’s try it.” So we rehearsed it. And the director [Maja Vrvilo], she came up to us with tears in her eyes, and she goes, “Oh, we’re doing that. Everyone was crying, we’re definitely doing that.”
Picard and Hugh hug on Star Trek: Picard
Trek the Vote is happening on Oct. 2
Hosted by Trekkies Jon Lovett and Alice Wetterlund, guests so far include Jonathan Frakes, Gates McFadden, Wil Wheaton, Jeri Ryan, Rosalind Chao, Tawny Newsome, Eugene Cordero, Noël Wells, Mike McMahan, and of course, Del Arco himself. (Read part 1 of our interview for details about the event.)
Why is it so important to connect Trek to this? What’s the connective tissue?
The connective tissue to me, is, first of all, Trek is a family. Trek is an organized principle of fans that believe in certain principles—that are obvious, right? The Federation, the respect for humanity, not judging someone on what they look like or on what their physical capabilities are or aren’t, on their wealth… There are many, many things that connect the vision of Star Trek to what is happening in in our politics right now, and the possibility of a future where we have different point of view of running the show. By that, I mean a woman in particular. It would be a very refreshing change to try to put that at the helm. Remember when Janeway became the first captain? It was a moment in Trekdom. I think this will be a moment in American history in the same way, and it’s very optimistic to me.
So there’s a lot of connective tissue with the future. For one, we believe in science. I dare say, you could definitely make an argument that the people running on the other side are not very big believers in science. I believe in healthcare, I believe in a person’s body autonomy… I dare say the other side doesn’t believe in body autonomy, because they have taken it away from women across the country. So we could go down the line of how it aligns. Sometimes I’m very surprised to talk to anyone that is a fan of Star Trek that doesn’t see the similarities between the kind of two ideologies of what America is… [And in terms of the event] What’s great about Star Trek is this sort of opportunity to have fun and also make a change.
Listen to full interview
The audio of the full interview with Jonathan Del Arco was released today on the All Access Star Trek podcast.
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After reading this, I really want to see the plan for James Duff’s PIC season 1. It sounds so much better than Chabon’s, if only because it didn’t kill off Hugh just to “propel the story.” The season 1 of Picard we got certainly felt like a chaotic rush job, and this interview only confirms it. I’m still not over how they decided to pair Seven and Rafi up for the stated reason that they looked cute together during photoshoots at San Diego Comic Con… for a show they were at least halfway through shooting!
Given Season 1’s rather robust character introduction to death pipeline, the story we got must have needed a LOT of propelling.
‘Robust introduction to the death pipeline’, LOL. What a wonderful way of putting it!
Right? I really like the idea of them together, but we didn’t seen the beginning of their relationship. We saw them suddenly decide to hold hands after meeting at the very end of the season. It’s clear the creators thought about it so much they were used to it and it felt real to them… but they forgot to involve US the audience in that process, which is the whole point. By season 2, the No Man’s Land audio drama did for me what PIC season 1 didn’t regarding them, so I’m on board now (should they choose to further explore it).
EDIT: Now that I think about it, though, this IS the season that gave us a scene where Jurati bones Rios in response to killing her partner under mind control, so it had already set a precedent of weird and inexplicable pairings.
His recollections of not having backstory thought about and not being told he was being killed off definitely jibe with what Jeri Ryan was saying about how they handled Seven at first. The character was unrecognizable on the page, and she said she had to go through some pretty elaborate mental hoops to come up with a justification for why the character’s voice was so drastically changed. She said Frakes and del Arco helped her enormously with that. They had to, the writers were probably putting out so many brush fires they couldn’t have helped solve this if they tried.
Loved his story about Whoopi. That was a very special shoot.
I think there was certainly some sort of clash in that first season and Chabon kind of seems to be in the middle of it. They had two distinct ideas with the Borg and Picards involved and wanted to have a connectedness with those ideas and they probably brought in Chabon to connect those and he wanted to have his own ideas involved with the show and couldn’t really get those two concepts together. It seems like a clash of egos and ideas of the different producers.
I distinctly remember while watching Picard Season 1 I thought, “oh my goodness. I know a lot more about this world and these characters than the writers do.” It was not a good feeling.
I have friends who worked on Picard in the art department.
They were surprised at how uneven the writing was. They expected better from Chabon.
Seeing the production design on Picard S1, it looks like your friends got overridden there too…
season 1 of picard was a missed opportunity. i feel like braga and moore could have made a better season long story arc. all the pieces were there, they just didn’t come together well. then season 2 happened and things got worse. but we will always have season 3 as one last hurrah for TNG and i feel content with TNG ending there (but i would love a STL series with the G, 7 and that new crew / cast)
Yes thank God for season three. It was nice to finally have some semblance of old Trek back and the characters were given proper roles again.
Season one had such great potential but ended up being a big failure. Not as bad as Discovery’s first season but close enough IMO..
And Hugh should have lived. Another big mistake. I was so excited for this show since I was so tired of going backwards and wax so excited to have some of the TNG characters back, but lots of problems there.
Nepenthe was definitely the standout that season along with the first few episodes. But it’s mostly a mess overall.
I think S1 of PIC would have flowed more smoothly if we had twelve episodes instead of ten. You have a three-part series premiere and basically a two-part season finale; so you’re left with only five episodes in the middle to flesh out the story and new characters.
I think you’re right. The season felt like hardly anything happened before it was over. It felt so rushed in the end and so much still left unresolved. We never heard about the XBs again.
Good interview. It is so sad they killed off Hugh. How does it propel the story? When Ro Laren dies in season 3, it directly affected not only the plot, but also the characters in a deep way. Her death meant something. When Hugh dies, it’s pointless. And yes, Hugh should have had a scene with Geordi.
When people ask me about the Picard series, I tell them to just skip the first two seasons.
Killing Hugh off was unnecessary.
Problem with S1 of PIC was that there were too many elements to make a cohesive season. They should have scaled it back a bit, because you could have has two seasons of PIC with the amount of material there were. Plus, I felt that the “edginess” that the producers were trying to go for was “forced”. Storytelling should always be an organic process, resulting in both a penultimate and conclusive episode.
I really disliked how the PIC showrunners made the BRP xB faction into another minority metaphor just to slaughter them all and not even resolve their story at the end. I recall Chabon being surprised that anyone cared when asked about it and it’s just…ffs, if we’re not supposed to care about the parts of the story specifically calculated to get an emotion reaction, why waste our time by putting it on screen? If Hugh’s death had, for example, been used as explicit character development for Elnor (who sorely needed it) that would have shown some thought was put into the whole thing, but nope. Complete waste of the character.
Well said, on all points!
And again, totally unnecessary to kill Hugh and Ro Laren.
And Bruce Maddox, Icheb, B4, Shelby. Probably several others I can’t recall because I’ve done my best to forget the nihilistic and terrible parts and remember the good things. All good things, hehe.
Even Picard!
Good point! I totally forgot about that.
Why does everyone have to live? I don’t get your problem with killing characters off.
Because in most cases their deaths had very little to add to the overall narrative or to their characters. It was simply done for shock value. And the fact they went there so often it became absurd.
And that’s my main problem with Picard. It was a series trying so hard to be dark, dramatic and profound that it just came across to me as silly and juvenile. It seemed to be made for people who write bad maudlin poetry and paint their toenails black.
Ok so you have a problem with characters being killed off badly, then sure of course. I thought you meant that no characters should ever die on screen.
Exactly my point. Also, closing doors for the possibility to bring them back for a future production. True they can return somehow, if the character is likable, like Hugh. But please, after 30 years to bring them back for minutes to kill them off right away, not necessary.
Straight up f**kin’ disrespectful is what it was. These are not their characters, simply to use as canon fodder. If I was a writer for OG TNG and saw PIC, I’d be pissed.
making sheby an admiral put a bullseye on her back, especially when her plan to fight the borg backfired.
Seasons 1 and 2 of Picard have literally no rewatch value for me. I’ll never see them again. And when I did see them ‘off’ Hugh for no good reason, I was heartily disappointed.
Per usual, totally agree with you. I was the biggest proponent for this show when it was announced. I didn’t object to a single idea or rumor about it. I was just so excited to get some of TNG cast back and to finally go forward again I didn’t even care what it was. I just trusted if Patrick Stewart agreed to come back then obviously it was going to be good and something very special.
Sadly couldn’t have been more wrong the first two seasons. Season 3 turned it around for me (but yes, I understand not for everyone though) but it was basically another show completely by then. Matalas obviously wanted a TNG reunion but he knew the show wasn’t really working and finally just gave what most fans wanted to see anyway. But if season one was just better received, my guess is they probably would’ve stuck to that direction of the show and brought in the TNG casts as part of that original direction instead of scrapping it completely and doing whatever he wanted.
I will never understand why didn’t they just make it a full on TNG show from the beginning? It sound like Stewart ego got in the way but fans wanted to see them all back.
I love Picard as a character but seeing him with new characters at this point of his life just felt strange. If he was on a starship at least that would’ve felt more realistic like Admiral Janeway in Prodigy.
Season 3 worked because he was with his family again and not with mostly random strangers. I never bought it even if I liked some of the characters.
I did understand Stewart’s thinking about it at the time. He didn’t want to be back on another Enterprise barking orders at Worf or Geordi when he had done that for 15 years and 20 years ago. I think in all reality he really did move on from Star Trek by then and it was going to have to be something major (besides money ;)) to get him back. He said in other interviews he was being pitched to return to the role on some level for years, as far back as 2012. So it sounds like SOMEONE wanted to try and bring TNG back for a long time; we just don’t know in what form (another show? TV movie?) but he turned them all down…until Kurtzman called him and came up with a radical departure.
And we got it for better or for worse.
And I did like the original Picard cast. And even now I felt bad most of them got the shaft in the third season. Hell most of them got the shaft in the second season lol. But I also agree it felt a bit forced. And I remember saying after season one ended how would they find a way to keep bringing them together? Because for Star Trek, it’s being in Starfleet or a part of it somehow that naturally creates that cohesion. And sure enough they basically put them all in Starfleet in season 2 lol.
If Stewart had said no to the idea of bringing back the TNG cast, they would’ve came up with something for season 3 but in all honesty they needed something to change the narrative or a reset after the first two seasons. Even if others liked them, they do have to admit most fans didn’t. And I think because the show had such a limited run, they had to go out with a bang to justify even having it because after season 2 I think most people just didn’t care anymore. I certainly didn’t. And that’s kind of sad seeing how much fanfare Stewart had returning. It would’ve royally sucked if the show had been considered a complete failure. Again, I know not everyone loves season 3 either but it did what many were hoping the first two seasons did and got fans excited about seeing these characters and era again. It’s a huge hit and the show went out with that bang. Maybe it went out a little too well because now people won’t stop talking about Legacy lol.
The bigger irony is Matalas had to talk Stewart into doing a TNG reunion season but now he keeps hinting he wants to do more with them, either more seasons or a movie. I guess the nostalgia of them all working together again had the same effect as old fans watching it.
I don’t know if we’ll ever see them together again, but it’s still Star Trek, so who knows?
Yes, per usual you laid out your thoughts well Tiger2! 🙂
And I understand Stewart wanted to do something different in the role but sorry how it was done was too lackluster for me. I liked most of the cast as well but it didn’t gel for me. They didn’t feel like a real team. First season was OK I guess because they gave them a reason to be there. But second season just felt like everything was done by convenience only. For starters. why were those people specifically sent to the past? Why did Q bring them specifically? We wouldn’t need to ask this if it was the other TNG characters because he knows all of them and their relationship to each other. But here it felt so random because it was.
And there is hardly any chemistry between them. Seven and Raffi relationship just felt forced. Elnor is a nice kid but I have no idea why he’s even there? What was his purpose? Jurati belonged in prison for killing her boyfriend and just felt ridiculous it was dropped so easily. Rios was great though and the only one I wish stayed longer besides Seven of course. There didn’t felt like any reason they were there together other than they are stars of the show. But they had little to no connection to each other. Not to mention the story was even worse that season one.
Now take season 3 and how those characters came together. Of course Picard and Riker were going to save Beverly and it went on from there. They were all given a reason to be there. And because they all deeply care about each other it wasn’t hard to figure out why they would join the mission. It was great to see them come together because they been coming together for over 30 years. That’s why I absolutely loved season 3.
And they certainly needed to swing direction after season 2. Picard overall is just a bad show. I still believe Discovery is easily worst but not by much. Season 3 fundamentally felt like a different show. It certainly wasn’t perfect either and still pales to some of the Golden age of 1966-2005. It would fall somewhere in the upper middle in terms of quality. For 700 episodes that is high IMO.
But for NuTrek, it might as well be considered a masterpiece haha.
I don/t know if you did this on purpose or not, but you left out Soji in season 2! But don’t feel bad, so did the show. ;)
As for Elnor, sadly I think that’s why they essentially just killed off his character in season 2 until the end. They would find ways to bring him back like that weird hologram scene and some flash back with Raffi, but basically sidelined. And having the Soji actress play a Soong clone in the past also was an odd choice. Again, just so strange. They couldn’t even find enough reason to use those characters fully in season 2; but you can say that for most of them. And what was the point of using the same actress who played Laris to also play a Traveler in the past?
The only thing I can think of is they were all contracted for the first two seasons and had to use them all in some way.
And I think maybe what would’ve been a better idea in the first two seasons if you didn’t want the complete TNG cast, but use one of those characters as another main character. Bring in Worf or Geordi and they are part of the mission too and that way you at least have one other long time character and someone Picard is really connected to and trusts. Raffi was basically suppose to be that character but she was still a stranger to the audience. And of course she could’ve still been there. I don’t think that addition would’ve made the seasons any better but it would’ve made sense for Picard to have one long time friend by his side.
I still say I’d be on board a Picard show where he stays on Earth and solves crimes from his chateau. Different is wonderful, but it’s always all about the writing.
Ha, ‘Inspector Picard’ sounds wonderful.
And I probably would’ve watched that with bells on lol
Oh and I’m still upset we didn’t get Janeway in season 3 even though they dropped her name a dozen times in it lol, but that’s life. Tuvok was a nice substitute as well! :)
Now that really bugged me. They teased and teased and teased Janeway throughout the entire season and she never showed up. I was waiting for the scene her and Seven reunited. It would’ve been such an emotional moment to see Janeway reaction to Seven becoming a Starfleet Captain. I knw she was proud to see Chakotay and Tuvok become Captains but Seven would’ve met so much to see how far she came.
Very disappointing but I hold out hope we will see our beautiful ladies together again! ❤️
Yep, fingers crossed!
I… like Season 2 in all its messy, incoherent glory. It’s an explosion of ideas that don’t really pay off in many ways but I am always entertained.
End of the day that’s all that matters. Someone got something out of a piece of entertainment then it did its job.
Agree with others here, Picard had lots of promise in the beginning in season one but it fell very short in the end. So much of that season just feels so confusing and anti-climatic. There are so many decisions they made that were questionable to say the least, one of the biggest was indeed killing off Hugh. A character we haven’t seen for three decades and the minute we get to see him back he’s gone just as fast. And I remember thinking that he was going to be around the rest of the series when I assumed that story line was going to continue in season two and we would see him eventually reunite with Geordi; which is what many people wanted to see. Not only did that not happen, they then threw out this idea he and Seven had became close friends but like so much of that season, we were never shown it, just told since they couldn’t be bothered to put them in a scene together before he was killed off. Season one ultimately felt like a huge misfire in the end. Not as bad as season two lol but for all the hype going in, it turned out deeply disappointing minus a few stand out episodes. A season I don’t know if I will ever watch again frankly.
But it is interesting that they were already coming up with a very different show before Stewart agreed to come back and with Hugh and Seven. I always assumed there was only the idea of a TNG inspired show and nothing beyond that. I think a Borg show would’ve been very interesting because I always want Star Trek to try and think outside the box a little. And not just always another show of Starfleet officers on a starship which ironically every show in NuTrek has ultimately become including Picard.
But it also proves that there are probably so many ideas they are pitching for these shows that we probably never even hear about.
Still bummed we never got a proper send off for Laris. Liked her. Sloppy writing, no shock there. In my head canon Picard went and met her at the bar she mentioned in the first episode of S3.
It’s absolutely crazy what they did with Laris as a character. I loved her too and was hoping to see more of her in season 3. But I remember a former poster here said she only worked one day in season 3 and that’s when I knew she was being discarded like the rest of them.
First season she was in the first three episodes and then disappeared once Picard left. In season two, I was hoping she got a much bigger role. They threw them together in this shot gun relationship after killing off her husband and built an entire story line of them being together just to dismiss it completely in season three. And technically she was only in the first and last episode of season 2. Why not just have her be part of the main story line and develop their relationship more instead of bringing in Talinn?
And yeah why even bother to give that line in season 3 that they would meet at the bar if they were going to have Picard just brush her off completely? I don’t think he even mentioned her name again once she left lol. It’s just tells you just how disjointed the writing was. The character deserved so much better.
Also it’s interesting that he brought up people like James Duff and Kirsten Beyer. I remember when Duff was hired because they made an article about it here and I don’t think we heard anything else about him since, now I know why lol. But I completely forgot Beyer herself is still making these shows. She had such a big presence at the beginning of Discovery and then Picard. But lately I don’t remember hearing much about her so I went on her IMDB page and discovered she’s still a part of the franchise and completely forgot she wrote an episode of SNW last season; sadly my least favorite one, “Among the Lotus Eaters”. But still nice she’s active. Just funny how some people gets so much attention in the media and then just disappears. Apparently she was a producer on Picard for all three seasons but I don’t remember her name even mentioned in season two or three and especially when the final season basically turned into the Terry Matalas show.
And speaking of people disappearing, it’s still crazy to me how much fanfare Michael Chabon got when he joined the franchise and thought he was going to be around for quite a while. I have never heard of him until he joined Star Trek. I think his time on that show was super rocky considering how the season turned out and he left before the show before the season even aired. He was around when it was airing but disappeared completely after that and cut ties never to speak about Star Trek again. I think there is a huge rift we’re not hearing about for him to come and go so fast.
I think you are completely correct about Chabon. There seems to be some serious conflict that happened in the background as Chabon really doesn’t even want to talk about Trek at all anymore. And the sad part this is probably why we will never get another literary figure to write or produce for Trek ever again.
Even during season 1 it became clear from interviews by Chabon that the show we got was kind of a hodgepodge of ideas from different producers and that he wasn’t necessarily happen with all of them even though he was officially the showrunner. Based on Del Arco’s remarks here, it sounds like the Borg storyline came from James Duff. If I remember correctly, the strange Romulan love/spy triangle came from Akiva Goldsman.
It is noteworthy that basically all open plot points from season 1 were dropped in season 2, and season 3 went on to actively undo stuff from season 1 (and season 2).
So if he wasn’t happy with his time on season 1, and then basically everything he did got erased as soon as he left, I could understand that he may feel a bit bitter or sad and not want to talk about it anymore. Especially if he was a big fan and doing Trek was his life’s dream, this could have been be a very disappointing experience for him.
The Narek/Narissa thing was my least favourite part of S1, so it tracks Goldsman was responsible for it. The man is a disaster when it comes to Star Trek.
Oh the Romulan sibling incest thing was definitely Goldsman idea. He talked about it explicitly in one interview and said not only was it his idea, he wanted them to have a sexual relationship but was (not surprisingly) overruled. But he still had enough clout to imply there was at least something going on.
And I also think they greatly changed a lot of things because I remember originally at least the story in season one was suppose to carry on in the next season and probably through the entire show like the Dominion War on DS9. But that was obviously dropped. And like you said, it wasn’t just dropped, but they didn’t even reference any of the plot points from season one in season two outside of Picard being an android. Again, who knows, but if true, I can see how that would bother Chabon if he had fleshed out this bigger story and all of it was changed or side lined. I can see him not being happy about that obviously.
Either way, it’s very obvious that season had too many cooks or just constantly change things because it did feel really disjointed. It’s still crazy we spent 9 episodes on a Borg cube and that story line went nowhere in the end.
It’s strange for someone who said they not only loved Star Trek but said getting the job was a career high for him to basically just walk away and not look back. AFAIK, he was the one who decided to leave as well after just one season. I do remember something about his novel being adapted to a show and that was supposedly why he left. But that obviously never happened and he looks like he had no desire to return to Star Trek.
And I can imagine being your first time running a TV show and one with so much hype there must’ve been a lot of craziness behind the scenes. I think just like what happened with Bob Orci and the third Kelvin movie, we’ll probably never know the true reasons why he left.
but the season was easily the best picard season
If you’re talking about season one qe definitely disagree but happy you enjoyed it more than I did.
Chabon is a wonderful novelist and a big Star Trek fan. He’s written essays/short stories about Trek. Not in universe, of course. Knowing this I was really excited. I feel sorry for him. Probably had to sign an NDA
I think the rift is as simple as “he was hired to do a job that he failed to perform satisfactorily.” The show was notoriously overbudget and not on time. It had to be bad if Secret Hideout thought it better to orphan season 2 (Terry Matalas’s description) rather than keep him around.
Picard was such a shitty, hapazard series. A complete mess from begining to to slightly better end. I glad it ended before it destroyed star Trek. Somany characters and plots deserved so much better writing and execution than they got.
It was never going to destroy Star Trek. Stop being dramatic.
It was a terrible show from beginning to end, imo. Even Discovery with it’s awful, awful, cast of characters and melodrama was a more competently put together show.
Fans like S3 because nostalgia, but I thought it was awful. Just a dumb action film with one of the most idiotic finales in the whole franchise. How the last ep got Emmy attention is beyond me. “Fire. Fire. Fire. Fire.”
‘fridging’ icheb was way worse.
As a motivation for a one-off episode that didn’t even shape the character in the rest of the series? Yeah, absolutely disgraceful.
Indeed. And needlessly grotesque.
That was a Frakes episode.
Interesting. I still have an overall positive opinion about Frakes as a director, just not for that episode.
Yeah, I was sitting in a hospital, eating lunch and waiting for my son to get out of surgery, when I saw that eyeball being pulled out. That, I did NOT need that day…
There was no point in it being so grisly. You can give Seven of Nine the same unoriginal arc and not have to show the gore and torture. Imagine being a kid watching Voyager and getting attached to Icheb, then finding out there’s a sequel show with Seven in it…
Oof, that’s rough. How’s your son doing?
He’s good, thanks! Had to get his cranial plates unfused, but he’s been doing great ever since!
There was no creative reasoning behind killing Hugh. You have to be a capable and creative writer and Chabon and Goldsman are neither of those things.
Unfortunately, he strikes to the heart of the matter- there was NO point in killing Hugh; it was needless and gratuitous. Getting Seven there could be so simple- she just stays with Picard and crew and stays with Elnor. Or the command functions ‘will only respond to a female drone’ because they’re keyed to the Queen.
That was the major problem with season 1 of Picard- Icheb, Hugh, Bruce Maddox… all the legacy character deaths were totally narratively unnecessary, and just there for cheap shock value. It really tainted what could have been a decent season, because it turned into this weird mix of nostalgic reunions and gratuitous slasher film.
Season 1 of Picard was all build-up and no pay off. Soji saves the day by literally waving her hands about. The writers admitted they had no idea how the story was going to end and they were making it up as they went along. It’s probably one of my least favourite seasons of Trek ever produced. Just awful.
Totally agree with your thoughts on S1, but I thought S2 to be even worse. I dropped it with only two episodes left. So poor in quality, imo.
I loved the first and last two episodes of Season 2 the most, but I definitely enjoyed it all, even if it was incredibly messy and made very little sense. It was fun for me in a way that S1 was not. Along with Discovery S1, S1 of Picard is something I will never return to willingly. I’d be happy if I never saw it again.
“For one, we believe in science. I dare say, you could definitely make an argument that the people running on the other side are not very big believers in science.”
Wow, he can say that with a straight face. Do I have to give two *huge* examples of how his “side” doesn’t believe in basic science?
“I believe in healthcare,”
Everyone believes in healthcare, maybe with the exception of Christian Scientists. Try to be a little more precise.
“Ibelieve in a person’s body autonomy… I dare say the other side doesn’t believe in body autonomy, because they have taken it away from women across the country.”
Wow, once again, with a straight face. Not to mention a complete ignorance of, well, science.
Precisely. “I believe in science, except for when it is inconvenient, like when human life begins.” Which… is probably precisely why the other side makes whatever exceptions you’re accusing of. Because everyone sides with science, until it contradicts their ideology.
This is why I prefer not to know my celebrities’ politics. Because I respect them more when I don’t hear the nonsense statements they make to support their positions (which can very much be a bipartisan malady; dumb rhetoric doesn’t have an exclusive alliance with any political party!)
That was one I was thinking of, yes.
Good points all around. Although those going with the herd will likely have positions a lot less well thought-out than those going against it.
“Good points all around. “
I’d raise your standards.
“‘I believe in science, except for when it is inconvenient, like when human life begins.'”
You’re, uh, making an assumption or two here my guy.
S1 of Picard had great ideas but did nothing with them. I liked the introduction of synthetics into the STU. But they blew it with the whole space cuthulhu and zhat vash nonsense. Plus the romulan incest thing was nasty.
I liked the ex-Borg and Hugh story. And I wanted to see more of that. However, the Icheb torture scene was unnecessary and stupid.
The Quot Milat was interesting though. I liked seeing more about Romulan culture.
S1 is a mess with little cohesion and logic.
Jonathan Del Arco was great though.
Wasted death and potential. Much like Icheb. Picard Seasons 1 and 2 were diabolical IMO. Cruelty for cruelty sake. Such poor writing and execution.
Wasted death and potential. Much like Icheb. Picard Seasons 1 and 2 were diabolical IMO. Cruelty for cruelty sake. Such poor writing and execution.
Agree. I was so disappointed with season1,I never watched season 2. I did enjoy season 3.
Well, my two cents would be that no one really cared about Hugh, I mean he wasn’t a beloved character or anything. I think they killed him off to create a sense of ‘no one is safe’ – kind of like GOT did, except with GOT, it was true – no one was safe.
In the end, Season 1 and 2 of Picard were absolutely terrible. No redeeming qualities really.
Season 3 was a revelation, it was like suddenly someone was making Star Trek again. Or at least, the Star Trek that I knew and loved. And then it was this big success and it looked like it had a jumping off point built in to build upon it and then…..nothing.
Matalas was then recognised and snapped up quick. But not by Paramount.
Meanwhile SNW has jumped the shark, Lower Decks and Prodigy (our last best hope) cancelled. We have SFA, which almost no one wants and Space Genocide Lady is coming out soon, after a trailer that basically the whole internet has ripped it a new one.
So the future aint looking so bright no more.
I’m not terribly interested in anything coming up either. The Academy idea was never a good one since it was conceived back in the 80’s, imo, but I’ll give it a couple of episodes just out of good faith, and due to the veteran film talent they have on board. Sec. 31, since it’s just a single film, I’ll watch it. But I’m not expecting much, the first trailer was a mess and not a fan of Yeoh’s character.
Good comments on S3 of PIC – I felt the same way about it, and then like you said, nothing. The ball was dropped.
So unless PRO gets a 3rd season, the next few years look pretty bleak from my angle, too.
Agreed. S1 & S2 of PIC was pretty much Sir Patrick Stewart’s vanity project, and the studio did what it always has done: nothing, missing a great opportunity to put the franchise back on track. Or, at least take chances with it that would have gotten more mainstream attention (see: Quentin Tarantino). And, I pretty much bailed on seeing SNW, because I wanted a more serious version of ‘Trek back on. Might catch some re-runs, but have not the urge to do so. Would rather re-watch TMP over SNW, to be honest.
Good interview with Del Arco! Who doesn’t love Hugh?
Yeah, I was bummed he got killed too, but his death was done well, so there’s that.
Still, Del Arco’s right. There was some good dramatic potential in keeping that character going.
Hugh got shafted in PIC S1— Never got to see a reunion with Geordi on-screen, got killed off for stupid story reasons. The series was incredibly poorly crafted in terms of design language and character’s acting extremely OUT OF CHARACTER.
I think Michael Chabon was an excellent writer who deserved his Pulitzer for The Amazing Adventures of Cavalier & Clay, but a good television writer and Star Trek writer he is not.
Such a shame, as Del Arco is a pretty good actor, and a de-Borgified Hugh would have been a great addition to the supporting cast. But nope, gotta kill off characters to claim it’s “well written”, so any actors not pulling at least a 6 figure check were unsafe from the poor decisions of the writers room.
All in all, I am stymied that Picard was as bad as it was for 3 whole seasons— the seriously mid first season, the deplorable second season, and the nostalgia bait driven Hail Mary that was Season 3 (and okay, I guess). All of it had a sheen of tone of actual Star Trek, but it wasn’t maintained and the wildly inappropriate design language that took TNG/DS9/VOY era’s iconic look and completely flushed it down the drain for whatever “super future and edgy looking tech” that the production designer had a hard-on for that week. It was like someone building something out of mediocre descriptions from a book, rather than someone who used natural evolution of the medium like the original TNG designers did. I mean, I understand that all the cast had a blast getting back together for PIC S3, and want to do Star Trek: Legacy, but I, for one, am honestly glad it hasn’t been green lit.
Frankly, this wouldn’t be an issue if we just moved forward with a clean slate when they decided to establish some new series and make it RARE to take on any of the prior baggage, but the Studios are now afraid of anything original and new (read: they can’t mine as much nostalgia from it) and the former Transformers script hustler known as Alex Kurtzman certainly isn’t up to the task of putting out regularly well-made, quality material: Lower Decks was the only show that was up to spec on this track, and they canceled it; SNW’s visual design doesn’t mesh with the timeline virtually AT ALL, and is too jarring to watch as they retcon anything inconvenient at their leisure; Discovery is finally over after the pitiful first two seasons, then when they finally went into the future to stop messing with canon in S3, they hadn’t realized that they had burned all their fan goodwill with the S1 & S2 mediocre stories and poorly acted lead characters; and Picard was… as described above.
At this point, I’d really like Trek to pull a 1969-1976, and just go away for about a decade. This new pablum is simply harming the brand and toppling years of canon, in order to secure a meager market share by a studio that is so poorly run and hemorrhaging so much money, they’ve tried and failed to sell it three times.
All in all, such a disappointment, and an exhausting one at that.
I don’t comment on here these days after a string of my posts mysteriously disappeared.. which kind of gave me the message I’m unwelcome, which is fine, as I am not a fan of Discovery era shows to be honest, and so mostly it’s appropriate I stay away, but Picard was something I looked forward to watching and I was excited back in the hot heady summer of 2018 when it was announced.
Then the show came in 2020, and I was somewhat underwhelmed. At the time I tried to enjoy it and thought it was fine mostly, but in hindsight it really wasn’t good. The same thing happened with Season 2 only it got even worse as it went on.
Season 3 was an improvement and was somewhat exciting with the TNG cast back, but personally I wasn’t as impressed by it compared to what many other fans seem to have been. The nostalgia was too heavy. While I’m not against being the Borg back, the way it was done was not particularly exciting but rather comical and a bit silly, in MY opinion.
Picard was a crushing disappointment because there was potential for it to be really interesting and just like TNG would have been re watchable for generations to come after its initial airing.
But who’s going to really remember or want to watch most of Picard after a few years?
It was also stupid and confusing to make a Season 3 that essentially ditches the cast that was in place for the first two seasons.. we all know why they did it.. but it’s still a cheap cop out in order to salvage the show.
The TNG cast could have reunited for a special streaming movie following the conclusion of the tv series. That would have made more sense to me.